Latest / The You Project / #1878 An Ego Dancing Unconsciously - Josh Piterman

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#1878 An Ego Dancing Unconsciously - Josh Piterman · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I get a team. Welcome to another episode of You
0:02
Speaker 1: Know What with You Know Who. One of my favorites humans,
0:06
Speaker 1: Josh Bitterman, has joined us. Who's just written a new book.
0:09
Speaker 1: He's a superstar. You don't need to introduce you don't
0:14
Speaker 1: need me to introduce you to his work and his background.
0:17
Speaker 1: But here he is.
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Speaker 2: Hi, buddy, he thanks so much having me on. Brother.
0:24
Speaker 1: Now people can't see what I can see. Well, I
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Speaker 1: can't exactly see her at the moment, but you've got
0:30
Speaker 1: a new addition to the family. Now if maybe Melissa
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Speaker 1: or tiff I forget who's editing this, but like, oh
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Speaker 1: my god, I thought you were good looking. But you're
0:41
Speaker 1: a FuGO compared to who you're holding. Tell everyone what
0:46
Speaker 1: you're holding, what her name is, and what she is.
0:50
Speaker 2: Well, I'm a fugly troll compared to this cute thing.
0:53
Speaker 2: You're right. This is Ze and she is an eight
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Speaker 2: week old Caerverdle and my heart is just melting and
1:03
Speaker 2: exploiting every second every day. I've had her for about
1:07
Speaker 2: twenty four hours and she is just the love of
1:09
Speaker 2: my life. She's so sweet, she's just delicious, and she's tiny.
1:13
Speaker 2: You're so small, so we had her first sleep last night.
1:17
Speaker 2: There was some tears and the crate, there were some wheeze,
1:20
Speaker 2: but all in all we got some zase. So that's good.
1:23
Speaker 1: What are you, I know the answer a bit of
1:26
Speaker 1: the answer to this, but are you a good dog? Dog?
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Speaker 2: Dad?
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Speaker 1: Like? Is this your natural habitat?
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Speaker 2: I think loving is definitely my natural habitat. So she's
1:37
Speaker 2: going to get a lot of love. And you know,
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Speaker 2: I've been controlling in my time, so I can go
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Speaker 2: back to that that default state heart and be a
1:49
Speaker 2: bit of a task master too. So yeah, hopefully she
1:51
Speaker 2: gets a great balance of love and discipline, which is
1:54
Speaker 2: really just love, I think, because you know, dogs need
1:58
Speaker 2: plenty of disciplines, especially in this first part. Then they're
2:00
Speaker 2: just working, they're working out what the world is. So
2:03
Speaker 2: I've got to show the ropes.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and did she. So last night was a little
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Speaker 1: bit of a struggle. First week. It's always a little
2:11
Speaker 1: bit messy, right ah.
2:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were tears, like I got it pretty sleepy before.
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Speaker 2: She's great training, so I've got a pretty sleep before
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Speaker 2: it's time to go into bed. And then a few
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Speaker 2: tears for about five minutes wasn't too bad. And then
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Speaker 2: she just self soothed, and then about three hours later
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Speaker 2: some tears took her out for a week. Same again,
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Speaker 2: a few more hours of sleep, some wheeze cries, you
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Speaker 2: know that. It's like it was like on cycles in
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Speaker 2: three and two hours. So I ended up getting my
2:43
Speaker 2: eight hours with a couple of intermissions. It was like
2:46
Speaker 2: going to see a three act opera. And she got
2:50
Speaker 2: some sleep, she got some wheeze. She didn't win in
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Speaker 2: the crate, so he did, good kid, So good for
2:54
Speaker 2: a first go I reckon.
2:56
Speaker 1: What's the what's the idea or what's the thing behind
3:01
Speaker 1: having them in a crate. I know, like some people like, oh,
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Speaker 1: that's that's cruel, but it's actually it's They actually kind
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Speaker 1: of thrive in that a bit, don't they.
3:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, So they don't like the soil where they sleep. Yeah, right,
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Speaker 2: So it teaches, it really teaches them to hold it in.
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Speaker 2: You know, she didn't we in there, which is good,
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Speaker 2: So that's that's really important. Also, they're like den animals,
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Speaker 2: like they love a den. So the crate is open
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Speaker 2: during the day. It's like little toys and little treats
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Speaker 2: in there. I've made it really warm and snugly, like
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Speaker 2: it's a really good place for her to go. She
3:37
Speaker 2: she she goes in there herself and just naps in
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Speaker 2: there during has snapped in there during the day in
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Speaker 2: the last day, so you know, she likes to be
3:45
Speaker 2: in there. So it's it just creates a little a
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Speaker 2: little home for them inside the home basically.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think. And they're quite allos oodles,
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Speaker 1: all the variations of spootles, caboodles and grudles and bloody labradoodles, yeah, labradoodles,
4:03
Speaker 1: and yeah, poodles have I said, But they're all smart, right,
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Speaker 1: all derivatives of like, because poodles are highly intelligent, aren't they.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so there she is a very smart lap dog,
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Speaker 2: like King Charles Cavaliers are dislike, you know, they're they're
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Speaker 2: the royals lap dog in time. So she's a lap
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Speaker 2: dog and she's smart. She's already pretty smart. She's doing
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Speaker 2: some pretty smart things. You know. This morning we played
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Speaker 2: fetch and she was bringing her little tassel ball back
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Speaker 2: to me, and you know, she like knew that if
4:38
Speaker 2: you if she brings it back, we're going to keep
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Speaker 2: the game going. So like, she's she's a pretty smart cookie,
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Speaker 2: which is a sleepy one as well, they're just they're
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Speaker 2: just like little. I don't know, I haven't had a child,
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Speaker 2: but it's just I feel very paternal here.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, super cute. She had all the drugs in the
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Speaker 1: world at the moment.
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Speaker 2: She hasn't. So I took her to the supermarket this morning.
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Speaker 2: I just wanted socializer. So she went to the cafe
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Speaker 2: and she went to the supermarket or whatever else and
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Speaker 2: someone went, oh, I thought it was a croissant.
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Speaker 1: Ah, what you must have to carry her, right, you
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Speaker 1: can't walk around.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm carrying her around everyone, just holding her
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Speaker 2: in a little yeah, with her little blanket. So yeah,
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Speaker 2: it's very it's adorable.
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Speaker 1: I'm sure that might a ten minute trip to the cafe,
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Speaker 1: a forty minute trip, oh yeah.
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Speaker 2: We prepared for that. We went to visit visit the
5:39
Speaker 2: doggy daycare around the corner, just to introduce herself because
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Speaker 2: she might spend a day or two there in time.
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Speaker 2: Went to the local cafe. Yeah. Just I think it's
5:48
Speaker 2: really important in these first few weeks that like all
5:51
Speaker 2: of this is normalized for her. So yeah, yeah, trucks
5:55
Speaker 2: and cars and sounds and smells and people and things
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Speaker 2: that it's just all like, oh, yeah, this is all
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Speaker 2: a part of my life.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's all that's censeri. Well what have you
6:05
Speaker 1: been now? What are you doing and becoming a dad?
6:08
Speaker 1: What else have you been doing?
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Speaker 2: I wrote a book that came out last week.
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Speaker 1: Oh did you?
6:15
Speaker 2: Oh? I didn't know. As a casual book. I spent
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Speaker 2: a couple of hours on a few words here and there. Yes,
6:23
Speaker 2: I've been writing that since the back end of twenty three.
6:26
Speaker 2: So that came out yeah, last week, which is, which
6:30
Speaker 2: is really exciting, which is And it's sort of a
6:34
Speaker 2: I describe it as memoir meets self development sort of
6:37
Speaker 2: both both a mirror because the themes in it are
6:41
Speaker 2: so universal, so it's a mirror to everyone's up but
6:44
Speaker 2: also a map and how to work through some of
6:47
Speaker 2: that stuff that I've worked through that everyone needs to
6:51
Speaker 2: work through, you know, stuff around self limiting beliefs and
6:55
Speaker 2: unworthiness and not enoughness and shame and imposter syndrome and perfectionism,
7:04
Speaker 2: dealing with rejection, dealing with control. I talked about controlling it.
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Speaker 2: So yeah, just all these sort of universal things. But
7:11
Speaker 2: I use my career in showbiz as a sort of
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Speaker 2: canvas with which to paint these ideas on them, what's
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Speaker 2: the idea for ourselves. There's even some stuff around body
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Speaker 2: image in there, which I know you'll be really interesting
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Speaker 2: because we've both had our body image stuff mate, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
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Speaker 2: stuff around bolimia, which is the first time I've really
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Speaker 2: opened up on that.
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Speaker 1: Of all the stuff that you just mentioned, you know,
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Speaker 1: all those very human things, what do you think are
7:38
Speaker 1: the almost universal commons and nominators? You know, it's like
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Speaker 1: self doubt, self loathing, imposter syndrome, seems to be like
7:50
Speaker 1: almost everyone. What else is high on the list for
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Speaker 1: most people? Do you reckon?
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Speaker 2: I think what's really high on the list, And I
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Speaker 2: think we're inherently built into this from a social conditioning,
8:04
Speaker 2: from a Western perspective, is relying on extrinsic validation, yeah,
8:11
Speaker 2: to fill us up internally. And there's nothing wrong with
8:17
Speaker 2: extrinsic things like we need a roof over our head
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Speaker 2: and a close on our back and food on the table.
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Speaker 2: But if our self worth is governed purely on those things,
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Speaker 2: we live a life that's like clawing and chasing to
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Speaker 2: try and fill something inside from the outside, and it's
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Speaker 2: just so conditional out there, so turning inward and finding
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Speaker 2: ways to fill yourself up intrinsically is a big theme
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Speaker 2: throughout the book that I think everyone can learn from
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Speaker 2: slash relate to.
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Speaker 1: You know, it's so interesting because I would imagine in
8:57
Speaker 1: the space that you play in, and I know you're
8:59
Speaker 1: more than a performer, a lot more than that, but
9:01
Speaker 1: that's kind of in inverted commons your job. And you know,
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Speaker 1: my job has been working, yes, with minds and brains
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Speaker 1: and habits and behaviors, but a lot of my life
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Speaker 1: with bodies. How do you look? How do you feel?
9:15
Speaker 1: How do your function? You know, there's so much about
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Speaker 1: your journey and my journey where I can't speak for you,
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Speaker 1: but I would imagine for a lot of people in
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Speaker 1: your space and MySpace where external validation is the thing,
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Speaker 1: especially when you're the ex fat kid that's wildly insecure
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Speaker 1: and you know, doesn't think a lot of yourself, and
9:35
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, you've gone from the fat
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Speaker 1: kid to the fit kid, to the strong kid to
9:39
Speaker 1: the kid that's kind of jacked, and then you get
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Speaker 1: all of this attention and approval and validation and acceptance
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Speaker 1: and with an asterisk love that you didn't get. So
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Speaker 1: I literally learned, Oh when I look like this, this
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Speaker 1: is the result. And then when I look like this,
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Speaker 1: this is the result socially, And so you get taught
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Speaker 1: that what you look like matters most almost, you know.
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Speaker 1: That's the terrible lesson that I learned.
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Speaker 2: And I learned the exact same one, and I talk
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Speaker 2: about it in the book. Obviously, the books called Behind
10:17
Speaker 2: the Mask, and I refer to the mask a lot.
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Speaker 2: I mean, in Latin, the word for mask is persona,
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Speaker 2: which I think is just so fitty, and it says
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Speaker 2: so much about the book. And we'll we're all wearing masks,
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Speaker 2: and we're all playing roles in the world, and so
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Speaker 2: that role might be the fat kid turned fit kid
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Speaker 2: turned strong kid role. And we're wearing masks for two reasons,
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Speaker 2: and they both come down to the one reason. One
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Speaker 2: because we get praise and validation and acceptance because of
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Speaker 2: the mask we wear. And two because we're trying to
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Speaker 2: hide something that's lying beneath the mask that we're wearing.
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Speaker 2: So yeah, either way, it speaks to a lack of
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Speaker 2: acceptance and a really authentic and true natured self.
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Speaker 1: That's so interesting, so interesting. I interviewed a girl last night, Lady,
11:14
Speaker 1: I should say it, Nicole Liddell, who's up today, And
11:19
Speaker 1: her background is really interesting. Like ten years ago, she
11:22
Speaker 1: was forty three, two kids, living below the poverty line,
11:28
Speaker 1: victim of domestic violence, mental health issues, morbidly obese, like
11:34
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff. And I used to when
11:37
Speaker 1: I would go to Queensland and do gigs, she would
11:40
Speaker 1: come and she would admit, you know, herself, like she
11:43
Speaker 1: was pretty broken physically, mentally, emotionally, find everything right. And
11:49
Speaker 1: I had her on the show last night. Now ten
11:51
Speaker 1: years later, she just found a way. Fuck it. I
11:57
Speaker 1: love what she's done and I love how she is,
11:59
Speaker 1: and she's you know, she's now fifty two, I think
12:05
Speaker 1: doing her PhD in psychology, done her undergrad, had never
12:08
Speaker 1: been to UNI, had no confidence, couldn't even afford to
12:12
Speaker 1: apply for UNI. It was like seventy dollars. One of
12:14
Speaker 1: her friends paid for it. When she first started UNI,
12:18
Speaker 1: people like friends used to gift her food for her,
12:20
Speaker 1: like she was her life was really, really, really tough.
12:25
Speaker 1: And I said, I chatted with her last night, and
12:30
Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't groundbreaking or life changing, but it
12:33
Speaker 1: was a really beautiful conversation and with her because she's
12:39
Speaker 1: been through so much shit right, and now she's, in
12:42
Speaker 1: her own words, a fifty three year old or two
12:45
Speaker 1: year old menopausal woman. She doesn't like she's nice and compassionate,
12:50
Speaker 1: but she can't. She can't be bothered with trying to
12:53
Speaker 1: be what people want her to be, right. And it's
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Speaker 1: so interesting to you know, when you talk about persona,
13:00
Speaker 1: always talk about I did not know that. By the way,
13:02
Speaker 1: that's so interesting that persona is Latin for mask. I
13:05
Speaker 1: talk about pisona all the time. I didn't know that,
13:07
Speaker 1: so thank you. But the gap between the persona that
13:12
Speaker 1: we show the world versus the person that we are.
13:16
Speaker 1: And I said to her last night we finished the show,
13:18
Speaker 1: and I said, you know, you are one of the
13:22
Speaker 1: most like the gap between who you are when I
13:26
Speaker 1: talk to you and the person on the show. It's
13:29
Speaker 1: like there's no gap. But with almost everyone there's there's
13:35
Speaker 1: somewhere between, a little gap, you know, Like for you,
13:38
Speaker 1: the gap is pretty much non existent as well. I
13:41
Speaker 1: think you are very who you are on and off right.
13:44
Speaker 1: I try to be that. I'm not always that sometimes
13:46
Speaker 1: I'm full of shit. But for a lot of people,
13:48
Speaker 1: the gap is big. You know, the microphone persona is
13:54
Speaker 1: not the person that I meet or know or talk
13:56
Speaker 1: to away from the mic. And I think that that
14:00
Speaker 1: getting to that point where you are just so comfortable
14:03
Speaker 1: just being not having a mask, you know, is it
14:07
Speaker 1: possible to not have a mask?
14:10
Speaker 2: No? No, And I think they're really important. I talk
14:13
Speaker 2: about that in the book. Masks aren't the enemy, right,
14:17
Speaker 2: but when they are, when they're the master of you,
14:21
Speaker 2: then you're in trouble. So we have to bring conscious awareness.
14:24
Speaker 2: And that's a chapter in the book around awareness and
14:27
Speaker 2: expanding our sense of awareness so that we come home
14:30
Speaker 2: to something of a true nature beyond the masks we wear,
14:34
Speaker 2: and then we can choose to put them on. Because
14:37
Speaker 2: it's all good and well to be vulnerable, but vulnerable
14:40
Speaker 2: without safety and trust is dangerous. So we need to
14:47
Speaker 2: wear masks masks protection, but we need to acknowledge that
14:51
Speaker 2: we're doing it because it's helping us, not because it's
14:55
Speaker 2: hindering us, not because it's controlling us.
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Speaker 1: Right. But also, I want to ask you for an
15:02
Speaker 1: example in a moment, but I guess you're talking about
15:05
Speaker 1: wearing a mask. That doesn't make you disingenuous, right, It's
15:08
Speaker 1: not you pretending to be something you're not. So give
15:12
Speaker 1: me no example, give me an example of that. So
15:15
Speaker 1: wearing a mask to protect yourself for example.
15:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if for me, it would be anything from
15:27
Speaker 2: going to the supermarket, let's say, and you know, and
15:36
Speaker 2: speaking to the checkout person as authentically as that camp
15:39
Speaker 2: but or where that we're in supermarket zone. Now, yeah,
15:43
Speaker 2: you know, two media that I might have as a performer,
15:49
Speaker 2: and stepping into that space and just ensuring that there's
15:52
Speaker 2: just that there's a little bit of awareness to go, hey,
15:55
Speaker 2: I'm stepping into this mode. Now I don't have to
15:57
Speaker 2: change who I am, but it's just there is this
16:00
Speaker 2: little bit of protection, you know, and that we're constantly
16:05
Speaker 2: shifting from role to role that you know, yes, there's
16:09
Speaker 2: an authenticity that you can bring to everything because you're
16:12
Speaker 2: comfortable with yourself and you don't care what people think,
16:16
Speaker 2: but you do care deeply about them. But the role
16:19
Speaker 2: of the father hold this little chicken nuggets, to the brother,
16:24
Speaker 2: to the son, to the performer, to the coach, to
16:30
Speaker 2: the podcast, there's all these subtle differences. And if you're
16:36
Speaker 2: wearing masks in a way that they define who you are,
16:41
Speaker 2: and you're going to run into a lot of trouble.
16:44
Speaker 2: Whereas if you kind of if you have a real
16:46
Speaker 2: deep sense of who you are and then you go,
16:49
Speaker 2: you know, I'm placing that one unconsciously and I've got
16:51
Speaker 2: to shift into that role. I'm slightly different with my
16:54
Speaker 2: nephews than I am with my mother, you know, and
16:56
Speaker 2: you're you know, you're just bringing awareness to them. Ask
17:00
Speaker 2: and that's healthy because we don't have these and we
17:04
Speaker 2: don't have the sign. If we don't have an ego,
17:06
Speaker 2: you know, we don't have any sense of self as
17:08
Speaker 2: the human And we bought a line on psychosis.
17:12
Speaker 1: Yes, that's so interesting. What I last week I did
17:19
Speaker 1: two gigs. I did a gig in Melbourne and gig
17:23
Speaker 1: in Queensland. But the week before I did a gig
17:26
Speaker 1: for all blokes and the gig I did three days
17:30
Speaker 1: before that was two hundred ladies in a room. And
17:34
Speaker 1: it's funny because you don't want to be yeah, you
17:37
Speaker 1: don't want to be disingenuous. You want to be you.
17:39
Speaker 1: But in the you know the context of what you're
17:41
Speaker 1: talking about here, I have an awareness when I go
17:44
Speaker 1: in front of a room full of women, I'm still
17:46
Speaker 1: going to say what I'm going to say, and I'm
17:47
Speaker 1: still going to operate with, you know, as much integrity
17:51
Speaker 1: and emotional intelligence and situational awareness as I can. But
17:56
Speaker 1: when I'm talking to that, I think it was called
17:58
Speaker 1: women in Prince Great Group, Lovely. But I'm up there
18:03
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to have an understanding of what's going
18:08
Speaker 1: on for them in this moment, So I'm not just
18:11
Speaker 1: looking through the Craig lens, but to understand for a
18:14
Speaker 1: room full of women who've got this buffet up on stage.
18:19
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, how do I need to be
18:22
Speaker 1: without being disingenuous or fake? But how do I need
18:26
Speaker 1: to be for this hour to be great for everyone?
18:30
Speaker 1: You know?
18:30
Speaker 2: That's how are you're painting your mask? Yeah?
18:33
Speaker 1: Right?
18:33
Speaker 2: In what ways are you painting it? And it's you know,
18:36
Speaker 2: the mass change's form and shape and color and and
18:39
Speaker 2: and that. That's that's all. That's all great. I mean
18:42
Speaker 2: our mask persona egos or whatever you want to call it,
18:46
Speaker 2: because the sona is a component of the ego. It's
18:49
Speaker 2: inherent part of being a human. You know, we are
18:54
Speaker 2: a conscious being and aware being. You know, some might
18:59
Speaker 2: call that, or some might call that. If you're hindi
19:03
Speaker 2: it call that batman, or if you're as signed dos
19:06
Speaker 2: you just call a consciousness or conscious awareness. Yeah, living
19:11
Speaker 2: in a form, a psychological form and a physical form
19:14
Speaker 2: that has an ego. So we can't kill the ego,
19:16
Speaker 2: we can't kill off the mask. It's not the enemy.
19:19
Speaker 2: It's about the dance that we have with it, in
19:21
Speaker 2: the relationship we have with it. So if we have
19:25
Speaker 2: no sense of self behind it, then we are an
19:30
Speaker 2: ego dancing unconsciously in the world. And that is very,
19:37
Speaker 2: very troublesome, a lot of suffering involved.
19:39
Speaker 1: In it, and ego dancing unconsciously. Can't write that down.
19:44
Speaker 1: I think that's almost the title of the show. I mean,
19:49
Speaker 1: I'm doing my ten week program, my ten week mentoring
19:53
Speaker 1: program at the moment, and every week we unpack different
19:56
Speaker 1: So Monday night, seven o'clock we unpack a different idea, topic, theme,
20:02
Speaker 1: and week two, which was this Monday night, it's just
20:05
Speaker 1: you and your mind. So every week is like you
20:08
Speaker 1: and your mind, you and your body, you and your
20:10
Speaker 1: you know, your career, whatever, blahbah bah. Right, So we
20:12
Speaker 1: just kind of and it's not so much me telling
20:15
Speaker 1: people how shit works as it is us collectively discussing
20:21
Speaker 1: you know, this week, you know, beliefs and ideas, and
20:23
Speaker 1: values and consciousness and awareness and you know, pulling back
20:26
Speaker 1: the curtain to see the world rather than your version
20:29
Speaker 1: of the world, and having an awareness of the window
20:32
Speaker 1: through all that kind of awareness consciousness stuff. But I
20:37
Speaker 1: feel like when it comes to this consciousness a having
20:41
Speaker 1: an awareness bigger than your own mind, having an awareness
20:45
Speaker 1: bigger than your own thoughts, and trying to you know,
20:51
Speaker 1: while our mind is definitely a gift, it's also a prison,
20:55
Speaker 1: or it can be a psychological and or emotional prison
20:58
Speaker 1: at the same time, to figure out how do I
21:01
Speaker 1: coexist with my mind in a healthy way, you know.
21:06
Speaker 2: And I talk about that a lot in the book.
21:07
Speaker 2: And so to say that the book is certainly a mirror,
21:13
Speaker 2: and it's a mirror because you're through my stories and
21:16
Speaker 2: undulations in my career, you'll see yours. But it's the
21:20
Speaker 2: important part of it is a map. And so there's
21:22
Speaker 2: journal entries for self inquiry. There's an array of meditations
21:26
Speaker 2: in there, and I always see meditation as really a
21:31
Speaker 2: path back to our deeper self, a path back to
21:35
Speaker 2: that conscious awareness. You know. People think a meditation is
21:39
Speaker 2: about stopping my thoughts, and I can't do that, so
21:42
Speaker 2: I'm shit at it. So I'm going to give it up.
21:44
Speaker 2: But it's not about stopping thoughts at all. We've got
21:46
Speaker 2: sixty thousand plus of those a day, and it's really
21:48
Speaker 2: about changing our relationship with them. When happens when we
21:53
Speaker 2: come from an aware place where we see our thoughts
21:56
Speaker 2: sort of painted out in front of us and go, ah, well,
21:59
Speaker 2: there's a negad train of thoughts that's catastrophizing. Oh there's
22:03
Speaker 2: my reptilian brain going into a negative bias there, and
22:06
Speaker 2: I'm going to spile it. Do you know what. I've
22:08
Speaker 2: had that spiral many times over the last few months
22:12
Speaker 2: or years. I'm going to see that and stop it
22:15
Speaker 2: and catch it before it spirals and realize that's just
22:19
Speaker 2: a narrative, that's not a truth, and that is awareness
22:24
Speaker 2: that it is catching. Because the ego loves fear. The
22:28
Speaker 2: ego loves separate, to separate. The ego loves me versus them,
22:33
Speaker 2: you know, or even me versus my aware self. The
22:36
Speaker 2: ego is a constant game of separation from everyone in
22:39
Speaker 2: the world because it lives in fear generally, So the
22:44
Speaker 2: tools that I put that I have in the book
22:47
Speaker 2: to expand one's sense of awareness, because people go, how
22:50
Speaker 2: do I become more aware how do do I mean
22:53
Speaker 2: that phrase? And of itself? And that question of itself
22:55
Speaker 2: probably requires a bit of awareness, you know. Well, the
23:01
Speaker 2: thing about our suffering, So whether it's of the mind,
23:05
Speaker 2: whether it's our anxiety, I worry, our doubts, our fears,
23:07
Speaker 2: or whatever is, they become very sticky to our awareness.
23:12
Speaker 2: They're very close to our awareness when they are the
23:15
Speaker 2: governing force. And what happens when we become more aware
23:18
Speaker 2: through practices like meditation or yoga or even somatic practices
23:24
Speaker 2: or even Western therapies of like you know, seeing a
23:28
Speaker 2: therapist or whatever, we start to unstick those patterns of
23:33
Speaker 2: the egoic mind from the awareness and we can see them.
23:36
Speaker 2: It's like a little bit more space. Psychedelics have been
23:38
Speaker 2: amazing for that for me first and now talk about
23:41
Speaker 2: that in the book. And as we create more space
23:44
Speaker 2: from our true nature, our awareness, and those thought patterns,
23:47
Speaker 2: we see how they're negatively affecting us, yeah, or really
23:52
Speaker 2: positively affecting us. But sometimes and so you just go,
23:56
Speaker 2: You've start to pick and choose. You become more discerning,
23:59
Speaker 2: you become more response a ball rather than just reactive
24:02
Speaker 2: to everything. And this is the power of an aware
24:06
Speaker 2: and conscious being. But very few of us in the
24:10
Speaker 2: world are plaguing in that space. And that's and the
24:15
Speaker 2: thing is, every single human has conscious awareness. It's just
24:20
Speaker 2: how expansive it is because it does require, in this
24:23
Speaker 2: Western world time to cultivate it.
24:27
Speaker 1: What was something that, something or things that for you
24:32
Speaker 1: you became aware of that you previously were not aware of.
24:38
Speaker 1: Or perhaps just maybe a light got shone more brightly
24:42
Speaker 1: on something where you had to acknowledge, own up, step up,
24:45
Speaker 1: change whatever? Is there anything in particular that for you
24:50
Speaker 1: kind of became a greater awareness.
24:54
Speaker 2: So I've told this story a number of times. It's
24:58
Speaker 2: what showed me where the seed of my wounds, or
25:03
Speaker 2: one of the major one, which is a fear of abandonment.
25:06
Speaker 2: I talked a lot about fear in the book, fear
25:09
Speaker 2: of the unknown, fear of abandonment, fear of death, fear
25:11
Speaker 2: of failure. And I've had all of them. We all
25:14
Speaker 2: have all of them in some ways. Yes, And I
25:19
Speaker 2: was doing I was playing phantom in London. I was
25:23
Speaker 2: starting to get very exhausted, very tired. My voice was
25:26
Speaker 2: going and my voice rarely goes like that. And so
25:30
Speaker 2: I went and saw the ant and he's like had
25:32
Speaker 2: a scope at my cords. Nothing wrong with him, but
25:36
Speaker 2: I can see you're struggling. Would you be up for
25:40
Speaker 2: seeing someone a little bit more esoteric? I was wearing
25:43
Speaker 2: a crystal around my neck at the time. I think
25:45
Speaker 2: he was. He was preaching to the choir. I said sure.
25:50
Speaker 2: So I went and saw this woman, Jake was her name,
25:53
Speaker 2: and she asked me what the nucleus of the character
25:58
Speaker 2: was for me? What what sort of who is he? From?
26:03
Speaker 2: Child like childhood? What are his wounds? And I said, oh,
26:07
Speaker 2: he was a boy born with a deformity and his
26:11
Speaker 2: mother couldn't look at him, and so from the moment
26:15
Speaker 2: she had him, she threw him onto the steps of
26:19
Speaker 2: the circus and he was abandoned. So it's abandonment. And
26:24
Speaker 2: she gave me a little sort of rather smile, like
26:26
Speaker 2: a little giggle, like this is going to be fun.
26:28
Speaker 2: Took me through some hypnosis, and within ten minutes I
26:32
Speaker 2: was taken back to a moment when I was about
26:33
Speaker 2: six at after school care and my parents were over
26:39
Speaker 2: an hour late to pick me up. It was just
26:40
Speaker 2: me and the guy running me after schoolcare. I was
26:42
Speaker 2: looking out the window and I just started bawling and
26:44
Speaker 2: bawling like I've been holding onto this thing for twenty
26:49
Speaker 2: five plus years and like screaming, purging. And I went
26:55
Speaker 2: back to the show and never felt that same level
26:57
Speaker 2: of exhausting again. So I was playing that out in there. Wow,
27:03
Speaker 2: playing that out on stage subconsciously. Yeah, because the unconscious
27:07
Speaker 2: mind is constantly we think we've got free wheel crave,
27:11
Speaker 2: you know, but our patterns are all being moved and
27:18
Speaker 2: shifted and shaped from the unconscious. It's like it's the
27:21
Speaker 2: puppet mast and where the puppet unless we become aware
27:24
Speaker 2: of these things. And so I became aware of this
27:26
Speaker 2: abandonment moment. I also became aware of what was what
27:31
Speaker 2: are some of my behaviors that have manifested as a result,
27:36
Speaker 2: And it was an incessant need to be loved, to
27:39
Speaker 2: be noticed, to be wanted, to be validated. And I went, wow,
27:47
Speaker 2: oh wow, this is this is the wound and the gift.
27:53
Speaker 2: My wound is this abandonment. My wound is all this
27:56
Speaker 2: need for validation. But in doing so it's brought me
27:59
Speaker 2: into to performing. Yeah. What an interesting combination there. And
28:04
Speaker 2: Carl Jong always speak, has always spoken, a great Swiss psychotherapist,
28:09
Speaker 2: psychologists always spoke to the fact that the gift lies
28:13
Speaker 2: underneath the wound. And so there's a chapter, well the
28:15
Speaker 2: small chapter in the inside a larger chapter about the
28:18
Speaker 2: wound and the gift and asking people then to self
28:21
Speaker 2: reflect upon their potential wounds and what that might have
28:24
Speaker 2: manifested into a gift, but also how it's manifesting ways
28:28
Speaker 2: that are detrimental to you and probably those around you
28:31
Speaker 2: are the people you love. So that was very insightful.
28:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the whole thing about free will and how
28:43
Speaker 1: how in one way, like we're at the in one way,
28:48
Speaker 1: we're at the mercy of our kind of brain chemistry
28:52
Speaker 1: and our biology and our DNA and our genetics, and also,
28:56
Speaker 1: as you said, our subconscious mind that's holding onto this
29:00
Speaker 1: stuff and kind of you know, pulling the strings, I
29:03
Speaker 1: guess for one of a better term. And yeah, we do.
29:07
Speaker 1: I do think most of us think we're pretty self aware,
29:12
Speaker 1: you know, and we're pretty in control. But you know,
29:16
Speaker 1: I kind of think that's just a story that we
29:18
Speaker 1: tell ourselves.
29:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if you're saying that you're self aware,
29:22
Speaker 2: I'm self aware in a sort of very dogmatic or
29:26
Speaker 2: even defensive way. Yeah, I would I think there's an
29:32
Speaker 2: opportunity for greater self awareness my way of saying that. Yeah,
29:38
Speaker 2: And you know, I've done so much work on this,
29:41
Speaker 2: and yet I feel at days like I'm just at
29:43
Speaker 2: the beginning. Y, you know, And as long as I'm
29:46
Speaker 2: bringing a level of curiosity to my internal world and
29:50
Speaker 2: the external world, then I know that I'm becoming aware.
29:53
Speaker 2: The moment I feel like I've stopped being curious, yeah,
29:57
Speaker 2: then I'm going, well, now I'm being righteous?
30:01
Speaker 1: Yeah right, Yeah. Even the idea that like we we
30:07
Speaker 1: all like to think that we're open minded and objective Mike, Well, yeah, no,
30:16
Speaker 1: like I'm not. I would love you know, like you
30:18
Speaker 1: try to think that you and maybe you're more open
30:22
Speaker 1: minded and objective than you once were, But if you've
30:25
Speaker 1: got pre existing ideas and beliefs and biases and likes
30:28
Speaker 1: and dislikes, then you're always processing life through that lens, right,
30:33
Speaker 1: Like I can't help but judge the world subjectively because
30:38
Speaker 1: I'm me, even though I understand what that means, and
30:41
Speaker 1: I understand the idea of total open mindedness, which doesn't
30:46
Speaker 1: exist an objectivity, you know, yeah, that being able to
30:51
Speaker 1: go Look, I I don't want to be but of
30:54
Speaker 1: course I've got biases. Of course I'm prejudiced, but not
30:57
Speaker 1: hopefully not in a terrible way, but you know what
30:59
Speaker 1: I mean. And of course I've got pre existing thoughts
31:02
Speaker 1: and beliefs and experiences which really shape how I process
31:08
Speaker 1: data and how I tell myself stories about what's going on.
31:11
Speaker 1: But I think for many of us, a lot of
31:13
Speaker 1: the time we don't see the gap between what is
31:18
Speaker 1: and our story about what.
31:19
Speaker 2: Is exactly, and so pulling on that thread, I would
31:29
Speaker 2: argue that we don't need to get harsh on ourself
31:36
Speaker 2: for a lack of open mindedness, but can we transcend
31:40
Speaker 2: that idea and sink into open heartedness so that yes,
31:47
Speaker 2: we have our beliefs and whatever, but our heart is
31:50
Speaker 2: open to the feelings of another human being. And this
31:56
Speaker 2: is where compassion, empathy, understand forgiveness start to come in.
32:02
Speaker 2: And these are all themes in the book as well,
32:05
Speaker 2: where you know compassion. I think the best definition I've
32:08
Speaker 2: heard is one from the podcast I do. The same
32:12
Speaker 2: name behind the Mask I came in from for an
32:17
Speaker 2: organization called Social Health Australia and they basically deal with death, dying,
32:23
Speaker 2: loneliness and grief and he describes compassion as shared suffering. Wow,
32:29
Speaker 2: And I don't think that is something that is of
32:31
Speaker 2: the mind. Yes, you have to put yourself in there
32:34
Speaker 2: and make a choice, but it's something that's of the heart.
32:37
Speaker 2: So you might have a completely different belief system to
32:39
Speaker 2: that person and have different ideas around the world and
32:43
Speaker 2: political agendas, and you might think that Trump's are learning
32:47
Speaker 2: and they might think that Trump's a hero. But in
32:52
Speaker 2: what they're experiencing, your heart is open to sharing that
32:58
Speaker 2: that's suffering with them, whatever that might be for them,
33:02
Speaker 2: even if they're not in in grief or death or dying,
33:08
Speaker 2: just as another being, that is, as another soul, you know,
33:12
Speaker 2: seeing people beyond God the psychology of the mind and
33:16
Speaker 2: their belief system and seeing into a deeper part of them.
33:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I could.
33:22
Speaker 2: I could on one hand, go, oh, for me, Trump
33:25
Speaker 2: isn't someone who aligns with my values as a as
33:27
Speaker 2: a human being. But I can also love him from
33:33
Speaker 2: a soul's perspective because I can also I can also
33:37
Speaker 2: see his upbringing, his wounds, he's suffering, you know, his
33:41
Speaker 2: daddy issues, and see how all of you know, his
33:45
Speaker 2: nurture has manifested into what he is today and that's
33:48
Speaker 2: not me pitying him, that's just me loving him at
33:52
Speaker 2: at a sort of deeper, deeper level. No, I don't
33:56
Speaker 2: agree with what he does, but I can be compassionate
33:59
Speaker 2: towards somebody suffering and.
34:01
Speaker 1: A little bit of that. I love that, by the way,
34:03
Speaker 1: and I wish we could all be like that. I think,
34:08
Speaker 1: you know, seek first to understand, right, like understand going
34:12
Speaker 1: trying to understand Donald Trump, for example, the moment that
34:17
Speaker 1: you go, look, I understand him, people go fuck him,
34:20
Speaker 1: fuck you fuck you know. It's like I didn't say
34:23
Speaker 1: I love him, or I didn't say I support him,
34:26
Speaker 1: or I didn't say I align with his ideas or behavior.
34:30
Speaker 1: It's just like I'm trying to understand, and I'm trying
34:33
Speaker 1: to understand the good and the bad. I'm trying to
34:36
Speaker 1: understand people that I love naturally and normally, and then
34:41
Speaker 1: people that I struggle with, I'm trying to understand them too.
34:46
Speaker 1: And that also this how don't know this? Maybe you
34:50
Speaker 1: can explain this better than me, but it seems like
34:52
Speaker 1: this fucking obsession that people have, especially online, with being right,
34:58
Speaker 1: like being right, like we're right there and whatever group
35:03
Speaker 1: it is, right, well, we're the right group, they're the
35:05
Speaker 1: wrong group. This is the right idea, that's the wrong idea,
35:07
Speaker 1: this is the right theology, wrong theology, right, you know,
35:11
Speaker 1: fucking political system.
35:13
Speaker 2: You know.
35:13
Speaker 1: It's like just to be able to coexist with others
35:19
Speaker 1: and communicate and connect and be kind with people who
35:23
Speaker 1: don't agree with you or think like you or live
35:27
Speaker 1: like you, perhaps while not condoning horrific behavior, of course,
35:34
Speaker 1: but just like trying to get out of your own
35:37
Speaker 1: fucking echo chamber, you know, and realizing that, by the way,
35:42
Speaker 1: you've been wrong about many things in your life, and
35:44
Speaker 1: so you're probably going to be wrong moving forward. I
35:47
Speaker 1: know I've been wrong, I don't know a million times.
35:51
Speaker 1: I'm probably going to be wrong another million times. And
35:54
Speaker 1: if I don't acknowledge my own fallibility and flaws and
35:58
Speaker 1: propensity to fuck up and get the thing is wrong,
36:01
Speaker 1: then I'm a problem.
36:04
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so well said. And yeah, throughout throughout the book,
36:08
Speaker 2: that's what I'm doing. I'm sort of showing where I
36:10
Speaker 2: failed and my imperfections and where I'm trying to grow,
36:13
Speaker 2: and that the fact that it's a process and there's
36:16
Speaker 2: you know, there's learning, and then in the learning, there's
36:19
Speaker 2: forgetting and remembering and back to forgetting and back to remember,
36:22
Speaker 2: and it's all that's a part of the dam too.
36:24
Speaker 2: But speaking, you know, to speak further on your point,
36:29
Speaker 2: This is what I was talking about. The ego wants
36:31
Speaker 2: to do. It loves to separate, It loves to say
36:34
Speaker 2: I'm right, you're wrong, me versus you, us versus them.
36:39
Speaker 2: And from a soul's perspective, and this is where the
36:43
Speaker 2: book moves from the mind down into the soul. Like
36:48
Speaker 2: it's got a sort of downward slowly. It moves downward,
36:52
Speaker 2: which is very soulful. And I always describe the soul
36:55
Speaker 2: as slow and down rather than up and fast. It's
36:59
Speaker 2: not getting you up here, it's not up in woo
37:01
Speaker 2: woo land. And you don't think quickly. You get there
37:04
Speaker 2: slow down. So you've got to move down there slowly.
37:06
Speaker 2: So I also ask people to read the book slowly,
37:09
Speaker 2: you know, to slow down in it. So it's a
37:11
Speaker 2: solful act. But from a soul's perspective, there isn't us
37:14
Speaker 2: in there. There's only I and I. Yeah. And so
37:20
Speaker 2: when you look into the eyes of another soul, really
37:24
Speaker 2: choose to understand and choose to look beyond their conditioning
37:28
Speaker 2: and beyond your you know, very one side of belief systems,
37:34
Speaker 2: or your righteousness or your need to be right or
37:37
Speaker 2: you need to carry more weight or whatever. You really
37:40
Speaker 2: just see another soul looking back for you with all
37:45
Speaker 2: the same you know, neurosis and suffering and this and that.
37:49
Speaker 2: But everyone has, you know, experiencing and in that and
37:56
Speaker 2: seeing their imperfections is a mirror to your imperfections. That
38:00
Speaker 2: is what connects us. Where's the ego and it's need
38:04
Speaker 2: to be right? Yeah, it's always playing in a game
38:07
Speaker 2: of separation.
38:10
Speaker 1: For me, I feel like all the stuff that you
38:14
Speaker 1: that you know just mentioned neurosis and all of the
38:18
Speaker 1: you know, my myriad of psychological and emotional issues like
38:22
Speaker 1: most people self doubt, impostle, all that stuff, and you know,
38:26
Speaker 1: I feel it's like I used to try to eradicate that.
38:31
Speaker 1: I used to try to get that out of my life,
38:33
Speaker 1: like I, fuck, I don't want to be fearful. And
38:35
Speaker 1: then then I realized, oh no, dude, that's never going
38:39
Speaker 1: It's about how well you can coexist with that.
38:43
Speaker 2: How do you respond to it? Yeah?
38:45
Speaker 1: How do you? Okay, So you're about to go and
38:48
Speaker 1: do a talk at wherever and and there's lots of people,
38:51
Speaker 1: and you're getting paid lots and there's a little bit
38:54
Speaker 1: of expectation, and by the way, don't fuck it up,
38:57
Speaker 1: it's being filmed and all this stuff, right, and then
39:01
Speaker 1: and then in the middle of your anxiety or your
39:04
Speaker 1: self dad or your moment of whatever, it's it's like, yeah,
39:08
Speaker 1: but I'm still here and I'm still doing this. And also,
39:12
Speaker 1: you know, so what can exist. I think this is
39:14
Speaker 1: interesting is simultaneously these things can coexist. Where the emotion is,
39:20
Speaker 1: you know, fear and self doubt and blah blah blah
39:21
Speaker 1: blah blah, and then the prefrontal cortex, the mind or
39:25
Speaker 1: the part the part of the brain, is like, yeah,
39:28
Speaker 1: but you've done this many times and you're not terrible
39:30
Speaker 1: at it. In fact, this is why you're here. This
39:33
Speaker 1: is why you're getting paid this much. This is why
39:35
Speaker 1: you have this opportunity because you have a track record
39:39
Speaker 1: and you can do this. You know, so those things,
39:42
Speaker 1: the knowledge that I'm not shit can coexist with the
39:45
Speaker 1: feeling I am shit.
39:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the great thing about the great thing about
39:50
Speaker 2: the mind on the prefrontal cortex. I don't know whether
39:54
Speaker 2: you know about meditation, actually thickens at the process of meditating.
39:58
Speaker 2: There was a great study done at harv not too
40:00
Speaker 2: long ago to show about ten minutes of meditation a
40:03
Speaker 2: day can pick in the free front of cortex so
40:07
Speaker 2: and change the relationship between the three fund of cortex
40:09
Speaker 2: and the mid diller. So it helps us with our memory,
40:12
Speaker 2: our focus, and our emotional responsibility, which is amazing. What
40:17
Speaker 2: I've learned is that that, yeah, that stuff doesn't go.
40:20
Speaker 2: I still have the same neuro season and whatever else,
40:24
Speaker 2: but how I respond to it has changed a lot.
40:26
Speaker 2: Like when I see it come up, like rather than
40:29
Speaker 2: go no, don't like what wei persist? Right, So when
40:33
Speaker 2: I go no, anxiety, you're not allowed here, You're not
40:35
Speaker 2: allowed here, the anxiety goes, hey, I'm coming up for more. Yeah,
40:39
Speaker 2: I'm going to get your kettle. So when I see
40:41
Speaker 2: it coming out, it's more like exactly like, I know
40:45
Speaker 2: I've done this in many times. I'm good with this,
40:47
Speaker 2: but I always have like a gig all to myself.
40:49
Speaker 2: I'm like, ah, hey, old mate, you still care. Yeah,
40:54
Speaker 2: Because if I wasn't slightly anxious or had those nerves
40:58
Speaker 2: before a performance, I think Pavarotti said I would say
41:01
Speaker 2: in the book if you're not scared, it doesn't matter,
41:05
Speaker 2: and you want it to matter, the same way a
41:07
Speaker 2: line gets a bit anxious before it it goes, it
41:10
Speaker 2: takes down at zebra. You need that, You need that
41:13
Speaker 2: heart rate, their ability to shift like it's got it.
41:16
Speaker 2: It's got to start pounding a little bit because this
41:18
Speaker 2: matters to you. There's care, and because there's care, there's love,
41:21
Speaker 2: And so I've reframed it from a place of love
41:24
Speaker 2: rather than a place of fear.
41:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so interesting. Why do you think that so
41:33
Speaker 1: many of us so often, if not all the time,
41:36
Speaker 1: some of the time seek approval and validation from people
41:41
Speaker 1: either we don't even know, or who actually don't care
41:45
Speaker 1: about us or even like us, but we still want
41:47
Speaker 1: their approval or their validation or acceptance. What do you
41:51
Speaker 1: think that is about.
41:53
Speaker 2: I think it's about our inherent not enoughness that has
41:56
Speaker 2: been built into us since day dot, especially in West
42:00
Speaker 2: and society is sort of touched on this at the start.
42:02
Speaker 2: But you know, there's something I talk about in the book,
42:04
Speaker 2: which I'd love to hear your thoughts on. But you
42:09
Speaker 2: go to school, you study year eleven and twelve, and
42:11
Speaker 2: I just decided to study theater theater studies or dance
42:15
Speaker 2: and whatever because I want to go and do musical theater,
42:17
Speaker 2: and someone else studies physics and higher level maths because
42:23
Speaker 2: they want to become a doctor or you know, astrophysicists
42:27
Speaker 2: or something at maths and whatever. And we're both a
42:32
Speaker 2: genius in our separate ways. We both have skills and
42:36
Speaker 2: talents and passions, and they're very different. Their subjects are
42:43
Speaker 2: marked up, right, The system says, you're doing something hard.
42:49
Speaker 2: You need to be marked up because this is very hard.
42:52
Speaker 2: The system says to me, you're that dance and that drama,
42:57
Speaker 2: that's data studies, that's really easy, So that's to be
43:00
Speaker 2: marked down. So your mark is going to be lower
43:03
Speaker 2: than that person's mark because your genius lies in a
43:06
Speaker 2: different space. And that breeds so much self worth, so
43:17
Speaker 2: many self worth issues with the young people already that
43:22
Speaker 2: they're in a system that says, because our intelligences are different,
43:27
Speaker 2: like that that physics and maths guy. Show me how
43:30
Speaker 2: he's going to recite Shakespeare with the sort of depth
43:35
Speaker 2: of a turn of phrase and eloquence of tongue that
43:38
Speaker 2: I can. But on the other hand, I'm not going
43:42
Speaker 2: to be able to handle that very intricate physics equation,
43:46
Speaker 2: you know. But what it does is it says you're
43:49
Speaker 2: you're smart, you're done. Yeah, you do easy stuff, he
43:53
Speaker 2: does hard stuff or she does hard stuff, and that
43:57
Speaker 2: from a very early age. With we're dealing with that
44:00
Speaker 2: system in our education. We're doing that problem with our
44:03
Speaker 2: education system. We're also dealing with marketing constantly everywhere we go,
44:09
Speaker 2: telling us we're not enough until we have that new TV,
44:13
Speaker 2: that that new house, that better car, that different type
44:16
Speaker 2: of soda, that different type of cereal or whatever it is,
44:19
Speaker 2: that different type of beauty product, health product. We're just
44:23
Speaker 2: getting told that we are inherently not enough until until this,
44:30
Speaker 2: until that and or that new bum or whatever it is.
44:34
Speaker 2: And that just breeds it because we don't because it's
44:39
Speaker 2: happening when we can't actually form conscious awareness. It's happening
44:44
Speaker 2: from day dot. So this is this is the wrong.
44:49
Speaker 2: Even parenting. You know, you're a good boy, bad boy,
44:52
Speaker 2: you know all of this sort of do this, you're good,
44:54
Speaker 2: do this, you're bad like, so we're constantly going I'm
44:57
Speaker 2: not enough in the world. And when we hit people
44:59
Speaker 2: who you know, we come across in the street or
45:01
Speaker 2: we don't know we're constantly in a cycle of tell
45:05
Speaker 2: me I'm enough, yes, to validate me, because I am
45:11
Speaker 2: not valid in my own sense of self. And that's
45:15
Speaker 2: a lot about what this book's about. But not enoughness
45:18
Speaker 2: epidemic that we live in. How do we become fully
45:22
Speaker 2: loving of ourselves in all our ways, all those imperfections,
45:30
Speaker 2: without having to rely purely on the extrinsic world to
45:35
Speaker 2: fuel us and feed us, because it's because you never
45:38
Speaker 2: get enough from it. You know, the theory that what
45:43
Speaker 2: we're after in this world isn't the bigger car or
45:47
Speaker 2: better car, or bigger house or better house, or new
45:51
Speaker 2: bum or you know, new Telly or whatever it is,
45:55
Speaker 2: or new genes. It's the feeling we think we're going
45:59
Speaker 2: to feel when we obtain that thing. And yes, momentarily
46:04
Speaker 2: we do feel it. It's a steroid, but it never lasts,
46:07
Speaker 2: and we scratch and claw and climb and chase to
46:11
Speaker 2: get something else and something else, something else. But that
46:15
Speaker 2: feeling is a feeling, so it lives inside of us. Yes,
46:19
Speaker 2: it's we're getting it from the outside world, but it
46:21
Speaker 2: lives inside of us, which means it can be cultivated internally.
46:26
Speaker 2: And that feeling that we're after is the feeling of bliss,
46:31
Speaker 2: the feeling of contentment, the feeling of safety, the feeling
46:34
Speaker 2: of security, you know, the feeling of peace, and the
46:37
Speaker 2: the sanscrit word for this which I talk about, so
46:42
Speaker 2: you know, I do call upon a lot of my
46:44
Speaker 2: sort of study of Hinduism, Buddhism and stuff like that
46:46
Speaker 2: in the book is an under which does translate into bliss,
46:51
Speaker 2: but not purely from a euphoric sense, from a grounded sense.
46:55
Speaker 2: And we actually have Ananda mites in our body as
46:58
Speaker 2: a chemical in our body that it's our bliss hormone.
47:02
Speaker 2: Son even science is taking stuff from Sanskrit at times,
47:08
Speaker 2: but we can cultivate that feeling internally and we should
47:12
Speaker 2: try to. This isn't about happiness, because happiness is a
47:15
Speaker 2: state that comes and goes, and if we're happy, we're sad.
47:17
Speaker 2: If we're up, we're down. So we're always chasing the
47:20
Speaker 2: up we're asking to go on the roller coaster. It's
47:23
Speaker 2: about chasing, or not even chasing. It's about moving into
47:27
Speaker 2: a space that is more full of contentment, equilibrium and
47:34
Speaker 2: peace internally so that we're not just on that hurry
47:38
Speaker 2: to grab everything externally to fill us up momentarily love it.
47:42
Speaker 1: Equanimity as well.
47:44
Speaker 2: Equanimity.
47:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you know. The funny thing is, okay, this
47:48
Speaker 1: seems like it's a stretch, but I don't think it is.
47:51
Speaker 1: So when we think about the way that society views
47:56
Speaker 1: success and talks about and defines success, like if I've
48:00
Speaker 1: got I mean you do what I do as well.
48:03
Speaker 1: Now you know you're in front of audiences chatting. If
48:06
Speaker 1: you and me are in front of a room of
48:08
Speaker 1: a thousand people and you say put up your hand
48:09
Speaker 1: if you want to be successful, every hand goes up.
48:12
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to be a failure, right, And then you go, cool,
48:15
Speaker 1: just jot down, you've got a minute, just write down
48:17
Speaker 1: what that is. And then people go, what is I go, success,
48:20
Speaker 1: you want it? What is it? Right? And so people
48:24
Speaker 1: get a bit perplexed with that because for a range
48:27
Speaker 1: of reasons I won't go into, but I think for
48:30
Speaker 1: most of us we grew up in a psychological, sociological,
48:35
Speaker 1: cultural model that says success is about things. Success is
48:41
Speaker 1: about what you have and what you earn, and what
48:43
Speaker 1: you own, and what you look like and where you
48:45
Speaker 1: live and what you drive, and what people think about
48:47
Speaker 1: you and what people say about you and how smart
48:50
Speaker 1: you are, Josh, and how smart we think you are,
48:54
Speaker 1: and blah blah, blah blah, all of these external things.
48:58
Speaker 1: And of course there's nothing wrong with being the great singer,
49:01
Speaker 1: the great performer, or the great fucking anything, or driving
49:04
Speaker 1: the Ferrari. These aren't bad things in and of themselves.
49:07
Speaker 1: But the problem is when you think that success or
49:10
Speaker 1: happiness or contentment or calm or equanimity or whatever it is,
49:13
Speaker 1: when you think that that's an outside in process, you're
49:16
Speaker 1: fucked because it isn't. Now, there is a correlation and
49:19
Speaker 1: a relationship that's kind of interactive between internal and external worlds,
49:24
Speaker 1: of course, But you know this comes down to as
49:28
Speaker 1: you were talking, I'm thinking this relates to one this
49:30
Speaker 1: kind of whole idea around success that we grow up
49:33
Speaker 1: in and you and I have met successful. In fact,
49:36
Speaker 1: you've been the successful person who from the outside looking
49:41
Speaker 1: in people like, fucking look at him. But the inside
49:44
Speaker 1: out you're a fucking train wreck right at times, You're
49:47
Speaker 1: a psychological, emotional, spiritual train wreck despite what it looks
49:52
Speaker 1: like from the outside, right, And they don't that doesn't
49:55
Speaker 1: people like, no, but look at him, he's done to
49:57
Speaker 1: day and you're like, well.
49:59
Speaker 2: And you are God some careers that online that tell
50:02
Speaker 2: me otherwise through Sorry's Instagram and that photo says he's
50:05
Speaker 2: killing it. How could he possibly be feeling these feelings
50:09
Speaker 2: that a human feels, you know, behind the mask he's wearing.
50:14
Speaker 1: And I think, so I love going All right, let's
50:17
Speaker 1: just let's not judge that. Let's just think about that
50:20
Speaker 1: idea or that version of success, and now let's talk
50:24
Speaker 1: about this really boring thing called setting goals. So everyone
50:27
Speaker 1: that I talk to and everyone that picks up your
50:30
Speaker 1: book on some level is picking up your book because
50:33
Speaker 1: they'd like to create some kind of positive shift on
50:37
Speaker 1: planet them. So that involves, well, where are you and
50:40
Speaker 1: where do you want to be? What do you have
50:42
Speaker 1: and what do you want less of? And what do
50:44
Speaker 1: you want more of? And maybe in you know, with
50:46
Speaker 1: your current operating system whatever the fuck that means what's
50:50
Speaker 1: working and what's not working. So when I say to people, Okay,
50:54
Speaker 1: what are some of the things that you want? So
50:55
Speaker 1: we talk about the what right, and then they go this, this, this,
50:59
Speaker 1: I go great, Now, let's unpack that why do you
51:02
Speaker 1: want those things? Because the why is your actual goal,
51:06
Speaker 1: Like the what is just the thing that you think,
51:09
Speaker 1: as you were alluding to a few minutes ago, it's
51:12
Speaker 1: what you think that will do for you, Like why
51:15
Speaker 1: do you want to be jacked, Craig, Well, I want
51:17
Speaker 1: to be jacked because I feel I wouldn't have said this,
51:20
Speaker 1: but this is I feel unloved. I feel unlovable. I
51:23
Speaker 1: want people to like me, want me think I'm great.
51:26
Speaker 1: I want guys to be a little bit intimidated because
51:29
Speaker 1: I'm wildly insecure and I'm a fucking idiot, and I
51:32
Speaker 1: want girls to think I'm hot and bah and then okay,
51:36
Speaker 1: why do you want all that, Craig, Oh, let's go
51:39
Speaker 1: to the net. Well, I fucking hate myself and I'm insecure,
51:44
Speaker 1: and I think if I get all of that, these feelings,
51:47
Speaker 1: these emotions, this in a turmoil that will go away.
51:51
Speaker 1: Ah well maybe probably not, though, you know, it's like
51:56
Speaker 1: when you start to put your thinking, you know, metacognition,
52:00
Speaker 1: where you're thinking about why the fuck you think? There's
52:03
Speaker 1: a time to get out of your mind. There's a
52:04
Speaker 1: time to get into your mind, right when you start
52:07
Speaker 1: to think about so these stories that I have about success,
52:12
Speaker 1: are they true?
52:13
Speaker 2: You know?
52:14
Speaker 1: And how has it gone for me? In the past,
52:16
Speaker 1: like how many mountains have I climbed only to get
52:18
Speaker 1: to the top and go, fuck, this is not the mountain.
52:20
Speaker 1: It must be that one over there.
52:23
Speaker 3: Right, And that doesn't matter where we are, It's not
52:26
Speaker 3: where we want to be because it ain't about you know, where,
52:30
Speaker 3: It's about who you are and how you are.
52:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to pull on a couple of things there,
52:37
Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, there is a process of what and why,
52:42
Speaker 2: and then after why it's why why? Why? Why? Why? Why?
52:46
Speaker 2: The real what.
52:48
Speaker 1: Exactly?
52:51
Speaker 2: Yeah?
52:51
Speaker 1: And then what and then what and then what? And
52:53
Speaker 1: then are here? We are?
52:55
Speaker 2: And I think we get to a point on this
52:58
Speaker 2: journey of climbing mountains, which is really the first part
53:03
Speaker 2: of the hero's journey from Joseph Campbell's perspective. If people
53:07
Speaker 2: know about Joseph Campbell's Hero's journey Joseph Campbell amazing American
53:10
Speaker 2: literature professor who coined that and that's now used in
53:13
Speaker 2: like Star Wars and Harry Potter and various things. That
53:18
Speaker 2: first part of life is very you know, for want
53:21
Speaker 2: a better word, self serving narcissistic traits. You know, me
53:25
Speaker 2: and me me? What can I obtain from the world?
53:28
Speaker 2: How high can I climb whatever. At some point we
53:31
Speaker 2: meet an ordeal, we meet a crisis moment or a
53:33
Speaker 2: crucible moment, and in that there's a dark knight of
53:37
Speaker 2: the soul or whatever you want to call it. And
53:38
Speaker 2: this may happen many times in our life. But in
53:41
Speaker 2: that we pull the wisdom, we get that elixa, that
53:46
Speaker 2: gem where we go, ah, that's the truth in this
53:51
Speaker 2: are And on the second part or third part after that,
53:56
Speaker 2: you know, obstacle or crisis moment, we see that life
54:01
Speaker 2: is generally not about what we can get from it,
54:04
Speaker 2: but what we can give to it, how we can
54:07
Speaker 2: contribute positively to the world, What impact can we have
54:10
Speaker 2: on others that helps them on their journey. And we
54:14
Speaker 2: return on the hero's journey back to where we came
54:18
Speaker 2: a new you know, we have a different philosophy, a
54:20
Speaker 2: different outlook on life. And for me, it's definitely been
54:23
Speaker 2: that you know, how many mountains I can climb, you know,
54:25
Speaker 2: and what's the view from here? It's not good enough yet,
54:29
Speaker 2: like you, maybe the mountain, maybe the next mountain, But
54:32
Speaker 2: for me now it's very much even if I am performing,
54:36
Speaker 2: which can feel self serving, you know, can be about
54:39
Speaker 2: look at me, look at me. I've switched that into
54:41
Speaker 2: how can I serve? How can I contribute, so that
54:44
Speaker 2: it's no different from coaching or from writing this book,
54:47
Speaker 2: which is about how can I take others up the mountain?
54:51
Speaker 2: How can I help them on their journey? And that's
54:54
Speaker 2: a huge shift point. Then things feel purpose driven. And
54:58
Speaker 2: I think if we live a life that is feels
55:01
Speaker 2: purposeful so that we are contributing positively to the world,
55:04
Speaker 2: that's if that is a huge part of what is
55:10
Speaker 2: truly fulfilling from an intrinsic perspective.
55:14
Speaker 1: Mate, I love talking to you so interesting.
55:16
Speaker 2: I love talking to you to her brother, we share
55:18
Speaker 2: so much more stuff and see such different journeys and
55:21
Speaker 2: such similar journeys.
55:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now you're embarking on the dad journey.
55:27
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what, during it was really cute. They
55:30
Speaker 2: do this thing. I think people copies know this where
55:33
Speaker 2: they dream about being back on their mother's teeth. And
55:37
Speaker 2: so she was just sucking away like like you know,
55:41
Speaker 2: like Maggie Simpson with her dumb It was cute. My
55:48
Speaker 2: little my little chicken wing.
55:51
Speaker 1: She's very bloody cute.
55:52
Speaker 2: Mate.
55:53
Speaker 1: So the book is called Behind the Mask Everyone, Where
55:57
Speaker 1: do people get it?
55:59
Speaker 2: Literally? Any bookstore, you know, major bookstores, not as not
56:04
Speaker 2: as big ones. You can get it online via Amazon
56:09
Speaker 2: or on ebook by Amazon as well, but the easiest
56:12
Speaker 2: way is just to go to my Instagram at Josh Pittterman,
56:15
Speaker 2: click the link in the bio and it's got all
56:17
Speaker 2: the different retailers there, so you can just grab it there,
56:20
Speaker 2: or you can rock up to your local Dimmicks or
56:22
Speaker 2: reading store or columns whatever.
56:23
Speaker 1: It's Yeah, the old fashioned way on foot, the old
56:27
Speaker 1: fashion way, go and buy an actual book in your
56:30
Speaker 1: hand with pages. Wow, look at it. Look at it.
56:37
Speaker 1: We say goodbye, fair but congratulations, I'm excited to read it.
56:41
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll our readers will jump on board as well.
56:44
Speaker 1: And yeah, thanks for sharing all those insights. We love
56:47
Speaker 1: chatting with you.
56:49
Speaker 2: Love chanting with mail. You're a gym.
56:51
Speaker 1: That's a lot, brother, Thanks buddy, that's a love