Latest / Blocked and Reported / Episode 290: When Anti-Imperialism Means Yelling At Refugees

Transcript

Episode 290: When Anti-Imperialism Means Yelling At Refugees · Blocked and Reported

0:09
SPEAKER_03: Can you hear that, Katie?
0:10
SPEAKER_03: No.
0:10
SPEAKER_03: You can't?
0:11
SPEAKER_03: Is it pigeons?
0:12
SPEAKER_03: We've been talking to one another for five years.
0:15
SPEAKER_03: I thought you would have noticed.
0:16
SPEAKER_03: Five and a half.
0:17
SPEAKER_03: Five and a half, Jesus Christ.
0:18
SPEAKER_03: My life is just salting away.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: Wait, I think I figured it out.
0:22
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
0:23
You are finally over the cold that you have had for five and a
0:26
half years.
0:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:28
SPEAKER_03: Nope.
0:28
SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately,
0:29
all the world's leading doctors are still I get poked and
0:32
prodded every day for six
0:33
SPEAKER_03: hours.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: You know,
0:34
I've become really good at recognizing the visual image of you
0:38
sneezing or coughing
0:39
SPEAKER_02: the waveform image.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: I could just I could pick it out out of a lineup of waveforms anywhere.
0:44
SPEAKER_03: Well, I was finally formally diagnosed with Jew.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: It's a really tough one.
0:50
SPEAKER_03: I was like a Seth Rogen joke.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: I think that's literally a sex Rogen joke.
0:56
SPEAKER_03: There's no such thing as a sex Rogen.
0:57
SPEAKER_03: Sex Rogen.
0:59
SPEAKER_03: No,
0:59
SPEAKER_03: I am not recording my usual place because,
1:01
SPEAKER_03: and this is one of those really fun New York stories,
1:04
SPEAKER_03: like Sex and the City meets Seinfeld meets Will and Grace.
1:09
The office,
1:10
where I usually record,
1:11
appears to be slowly filling with some sort of gasp.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh, nice.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: Wait, by this, do you mean your bedroom?
1:16
SPEAKER_02: Did you actually have an office?
1:18
SPEAKER_02: When did you get an office?
1:20
SPEAKER_03: I've always had that.
1:20
SPEAKER_03: You've seen my fucking apartment.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
1:23
SPEAKER_02: Your home office.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: You made it sound like a place that you... Yeah, my home office.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: Left.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: Wait, so this doesn't make any sense.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: Just the office is filling up with gas nowhere else?
1:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:34
SPEAKER_03: It's so funny.
1:35
SPEAKER_03: So if the door is closed for a while and I go in there,
1:39
SPEAKER_03: I'll smell this sort of gassy,
1:43
SPEAKER_03: sort of organic,
1:44
SPEAKER_03: sort of musty smell.
1:46
SPEAKER_03: I don't know where it's coming from.
1:47
SPEAKER_03: My super doesn't know where it's coming from.
1:49
SPEAKER_03: And this has been going on for weeks.
1:51
SPEAKER_03: So the last few episodes,
1:52
SPEAKER_03: if I was a little bit not to my normal standards,
1:55
SPEAKER_03: that's because I was inhaling some sort of unknown gas.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: Have you checked the closets?
1:59
SPEAKER_02: I checked everywhere.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: Have you checked yourself?
2:01
SPEAKER_03: It turns out I am slowly producing gas.
2:06
SPEAKER_03: I looked everywhere.
2:07
SPEAKER_03: The plumber was here and he said there's no source of gas.
2:11
SPEAKER_03: So it's just this is what happens in New York.
2:14
SPEAKER_03: Relatedly, I don't think I've mentioned this yet on the pod.
2:17
I'm going to be in California for three months in part to get
2:20
away from issues like this.
2:21
SPEAKER_03: I don't think anyone who listens to this has ever been to California,
2:25
SPEAKER_03: but I'm going to be in the Bay Area February,
2:27
SPEAKER_03: March,
2:27
SPEAKER_03: April.
2:28
SPEAKER_03: So if people have recommendations, send them my way.
2:29
They don't have any gas leaks in California,
2:31
so you should be fine with that.
2:33
I was going to say,
2:34
I'm moving to a place with no major disasters or issues.
2:38
SPEAKER_03: What should I do out there, Katie?
2:39
SPEAKER_03: Should I find myself?
2:40
If I were going to spend a couple of months in California,
2:43
what I would do is save my money.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: That's what I would do.
2:46
SPEAKER_03: So not go there.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: Not go there.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: That's what I would do.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: California, I was having a conversation...
2:51
about California the other day with someone who is back in
2:54
Western North Carolina
2:55
SPEAKER_02: after being in California for like 30 years.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: And we were talking about Gavin Newsom.
3:01
And he's not a Newsom fan,
3:02
but he was saying that he thinks he's pretty good.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: He was his governor.
3:06
SPEAKER_02: And the guy's not that political.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: But I was saying the problem with Gavin Newsom,
3:10
SPEAKER_02: there are many problems,
3:11
SPEAKER_02: but one of them,
3:12
SPEAKER_02: I just think that I don't think anyone from California
3:16
can win a presidential race in this country because California
3:21
is the place where
3:21
SPEAKER_02: when people move to your city from California,
3:24
SPEAKER_03: it's over.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that might not even be true.
3:26
But that is the perception of like everywhere I've ever lived
3:29
in North Carolina,
3:30
SPEAKER_02: in Portland and Washington.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: It's just when California gets there, it's dead.
3:35
It's like what JD Vance says people from Somalia do,
3:38
except it actually happens.
3:40
What they do is that they come here and they buy your houses
3:42
for cash prices and
3:45
SPEAKER_02: then start little coffee shops or olive oil stores.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: It's terrible, terrible people.
3:50
I'm a little bit curious about the...
3:52
I mean,
3:52
I obviously spend a fair amount of time out there.
3:54
SPEAKER_03: Northern California, like the culture out there is very different for me.
3:58
SPEAKER_03: It's like not... It's just very like open and wide-eyed.
4:02
SPEAKER_03: And I think maybe that'll drive... I think it depends on where you are.
4:04
SPEAKER_03: Well...
4:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:05
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to be in the Bay Area, which is that.
4:08
SPEAKER_03: It'll be great.
4:09
SPEAKER_03: Well, it'll be interesting.
4:11
SPEAKER_03: I'm open.
4:11
I'm open to recommendations,
4:12
and I hope the place I'm staying there does not have a gas
4:15
leak.
4:15
SPEAKER_03: In the meantime... Or an earthquake?
4:18
SPEAKER_02: Or a tsunami?
4:18
SPEAKER_03: No, don't... See, that's the thing.
4:20
SPEAKER_03: That's the one thing.
4:21
SPEAKER_03: I'm such just a fearful guy in general.
4:23
SPEAKER_03: I'm scared of everything.
4:24
SPEAKER_03: And in New York...
4:28
it's weird to say it's not that much to be afraid of it's just
4:31
actually a very safe
4:31
place but like in California I really could get carried away by
4:34
a tsunami any
4:35
SPEAKER_03: moment is my understanding is that true
4:37
SPEAKER_02: I think it's true.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: I have some of these same tendencies.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: I woke up in the middle of the night last night and got Chad GPT,
4:43
SPEAKER_02: Chad GPT to write me a,
4:46
SPEAKER_02: I gave Chad a picture of my house and I asked him.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: Is it pretty?
4:51
SPEAKER_02: I did not ask him if it's pretty.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: I did ask if he, if he would live there.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: He said, yes, he would move in with me.
4:55
But I asked him to point out all of the areas of my house that
4:58
could be potential
4:59
SPEAKER_02: fire hazards and,
5:00
SPEAKER_02: or not fire hazards,
5:01
SPEAKER_02: but problematic in the case of a wildfire.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: Apparently having a wood house is like the, like you don't want that.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: Chad says that's bad.
5:08
So you use this unbelievable AI with like trillions of
5:13
parameters to ask whether
5:15
SPEAKER_03: wood catches fire.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what I did.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: What are we talking about today?
5:19
SPEAKER_03: I did.
5:20
SPEAKER_03: No,
5:20
SPEAKER_03: I just want to say one other thing,
5:21
SPEAKER_03: which is I lived through the New York earthquake of 2024.
5:26
SPEAKER_03: Actual very mild tremor and not fun.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: Katie, today we're going to get a salt shaker spill.
5:34
SPEAKER_03: Not even like nothing even rattled off the table.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: But I was sitting in a coffee shop with other people.
5:37
SPEAKER_03: We all looked at each other.
5:38
SPEAKER_03: We were like, I'm walking.
5:40
SPEAKER_03: I'm walking here.
5:41
SPEAKER_03: I'm sitting here.
5:42
SPEAKER_03: All right,
5:43
SPEAKER_03: Katie,
5:43
SPEAKER_03: before we get to the meat of the sandwich,
5:46
SPEAKER_03: you had my understanding is 12 to 15 corrections to do.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: It's actually 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
5:51
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
5:51
SPEAKER_02: Five corrections?
5:53
SPEAKER_03: That could have been the whole episode.
5:56
SPEAKER_03: Why did I prepare anything?
5:58
SPEAKER_02: So normally I would do this on our...
6:00
SPEAKER_02: These are all about our last Primo episode,
6:02
SPEAKER_02: which was about Team Fortress 2,
6:04
SPEAKER_02: a classic video game of which you are apparently a player.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: Normally I would do this in our Primo episode,
6:08
SPEAKER_02: but I want to take responsibility for the whole class,
6:12
SPEAKER_02: for everyone,
6:13
SPEAKER_02: for my slash our errors.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: So just, you know, there's...
6:18
a lot of distrust in the media right now so i don't want to
6:21
hide this behind a
6:22
paywall so just let me give you these corrections tf2 was at
6:26
one point available on
6:27
console something called the orange box i said i we didn't say
6:31
the word i mentioned
6:32
the orange box i swear to god you did you i you did not say the
6:35
orange in the raw
6:36
audio if you listen to it i was like i because i googled it and
6:38
i remembered the
6:39
SPEAKER_03: orange box i think i might have had the orange box
6:42
Well,
6:43
and what we came around to was you saying,
6:45
okay,
6:46
yes,
6:46
you're right.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: It's just PC, not a console.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: That's where we landed.
6:49
SPEAKER_03: But I was Googling and I owned the orange box, Katie.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: Well, you should have trusted yourself and not Google.
6:55
SPEAKER_03: I should have been like... You should have asserted yourself.
6:57
SPEAKER_03: I should have been there for you.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but you yelled me down.
7:00
SPEAKER_03: What's a nice one?
7:02
SPEAKER_02: No one calls it VTube.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: Why?
7:05
SPEAKER_03: No one calls it what?
7:06
SPEAKER_02: VTube.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: You refer to VTubers, but not to VTube.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: Apparently at one point I said something like, now we turn to VTube.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: There's no such thing as VTube.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: There are only VTubers.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: There is no VTube.
7:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:17
SPEAKER_03: VTubers are on YouTube.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: But I think it should be called VTube.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: Don't you think?
7:21
SPEAKER_03: You think YouTube should be called VTube?
7:22
SPEAKER_02: No, I think the VTubers on YouTube should be called VTube.
7:25
SPEAKER_03: Oh, like that section of YouTube.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: That section.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Like we call it book talk.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: We call it minotaur talk or whatever.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:31
SPEAKER_03: This is too dumb to be a correction.
7:32
SPEAKER_03: Move on.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
7:33
The girl who turned into a blueberry was Violet Beauregard,
7:36
not Veruca Salt.
7:37
SPEAKER_03: Veruca Salt was that little uppity bitch.
7:41
SPEAKER_03: Like the one who just wanted everything her way.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: She was the, I want it now, daddy.
7:45
SPEAKER_03: She was the Katie Herzog of that tour.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: I would never say daddy.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: Also, Pam says in the comments, no, Katie, TF2 is not a shoot them up.
7:55
Shmups didn't know that term are TD shooters that are
7:59
essentially played like space invaders.
8:01
SPEAKER_02: TF2 is a first person shooter.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: They're completely.
8:03
SPEAKER_03: I said it was a team-based,
8:06
SPEAKER_03: class-based shooter,
8:07
SPEAKER_03: and I literally explained its importance to that.
8:11
SPEAKER_03: Well, maybe we didn't get into it.
8:13
SPEAKER_03: It gave rise to really successful properties like Overwatch and stuff.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, the problem was that I said shoot-em-up.
8:18
SPEAKER_02: I was under the impression,
8:19
SPEAKER_02: I think,
8:19
SPEAKER_02: a fair one that games where you shoot-em-up are called shoot-em-ups,
8:24
SPEAKER_02: but no.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: No.
8:25
SPEAKER_03: Do you want me to explain the difference to you?
8:26
SPEAKER_03: Do you understand it?
8:27
SPEAKER_02: No.
8:27
SPEAKER_02: Number five.
8:28
SPEAKER_03: A shmup, you're not playing other human players for one thing.
8:30
SPEAKER_03: And it is usually that 2D.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: I don't care.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: Number five.
8:32
SPEAKER_03: Screen filled with enemies.
8:33
SPEAKER_03: They call it bullet hell.
8:34
SPEAKER_03: Japan has a big role.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: Colin B says.
8:37
SPEAKER_03: In producing those sorts of games.
8:39
SPEAKER_02: Jesse called Sergeant Donnie Donowitz, a.k.a.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: the Bear Jew from Inglorious Bastards,
8:43
SPEAKER_02: the Jew Hunter,
8:45
SPEAKER_02: which was actually Ruthless Nazi,
8:47
SPEAKER_02: Hans Landa's moniker.
8:48
SPEAKER_03: Of course.
8:49
SPEAKER_03: Of course.
8:50
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
8:50
The Bear Jew was the guy who would pretend to be Ted Williams
8:54
and beat Nazis to death.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: The details don't matter.
8:58
SPEAKER_03: Obviously, the Jewish character who kills Nazis is not the Jew Hunter.
9:01
SPEAKER_03: That strikes me as an editing error because you should have noticed that.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: How am I supposed to know that the Jew hunter and the bear chew?
9:07
SPEAKER_03: Hold on.
9:07
SPEAKER_03: I'm doing a screenshot.
9:09
I'm doing a screenshot where I attribute blame for each of
9:11
these corrections and it's 5-0 me.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: No, no.
9:14
SPEAKER_03: I think... Haven't you seen Inglourious Bastards?
9:17
SPEAKER_02: Maybe once.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: Maybe probably not.
9:19
SPEAKER_03: It's so fucking good.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so anyway, those are our corrections.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: If that didn't make any sense to you,
9:26
SPEAKER_02: that means that you're a free listener,
9:27
SPEAKER_02: and honestly,
9:28
SPEAKER_02: fuck you.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: Is that too harsh?
9:31
SPEAKER_03: No, yeah, I'd say so.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: Okay, honestly, screw you.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: Was that better?
9:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:36
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
9:37
SPEAKER_03: So let's get to the episode.
9:39
SPEAKER_03: We have had...
9:41
SPEAKER_03: A good run of episodes on sort of niche internet bullshit.
9:46
SPEAKER_03: Interesting stuff from these random communities.
9:48
SPEAKER_03: Minotaur Milking, Team Fortress 2.
9:52
SPEAKER_03: What else, Katie?
9:52
What of our recent...
9:53
What was the...
9:54
There's another like really niche one recently.
9:55
SPEAKER_03: I have to check the list.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: My God.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: It's like once we do it, it's just like in and out of brain.
10:01
SPEAKER_03: I've actually... I learned how to severance myself to...
10:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: So we had clavicular.
10:06
He was the looks maxer who looked himself in the face with a
10:10
hammer,
10:10
which I've been doing.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: And honestly, it's just bruising.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're swollen.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: We had bronies.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: We had... That's pretty much... Chess.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: We did chess.
10:20
SPEAKER_03: So today...
10:21
SPEAKER_03: There is,
10:22
SPEAKER_03: at the moment,
10:23
a lot of internet bullshit colliding with actual real-world
10:27
news and stuff.
10:28
SPEAKER_03: Katie, just click this link as one little appetizer.
10:30
This is not a story in and of itself,
10:32
but this made me realize where we are.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: This is a tweet from Prediction Market Trader.
10:38
Today's White House briefing had a 98% chance of running over
10:41
65 minutes until
10:42
SPEAKER_02: Caroline Levitt abruptly ended it with seconds to spare.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: Traders on the no side made 50x in seconds.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: I know I'm going to get into this.
10:49
I was talking about this last night with my parents about how
10:51
I'm going to start
10:51
SPEAKER_02: doing all of my retirement on the poly markets.
10:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:54
SPEAKER_03: So to anyone from this isn't clear,
10:56
SPEAKER_03: there are prediction markets where you can bet on anything now.
11:01
And apparently one of the things you can bet is whether a given
11:04
White House press
11:04
SPEAKER_03: conference will be over 65 minutes.
11:08
SPEAKER_03: And in this video,
11:09
SPEAKER_03: Carolyn Levitt,
11:10
there's a timer and she does seem to sort of wrap it up quickly
11:14
at 104.30.
11:16
SPEAKER_03: Now, there obviously could be other reasons.
11:17
SPEAKER_03: If you work for the White House, you have to be
11:19
SPEAKER_03: Elsewhere,
11:20
SPEAKER_03: but...
11:20
SPEAKER_02: She had a fart that was just like...
11:22
SPEAKER_02: She just had to get out of the door to let it out.
11:24
SPEAKER_03: Right.
11:24
Or they're debating which random boat to bomb next and she
11:28
wanted to be able to chime in.
11:30
SPEAKER_03: But when I watched this,
11:32
SPEAKER_03: I was like...
11:32
SPEAKER_03: And the point of the tweet is people could have made really,
11:36
SPEAKER_03: really big money on this random little event.
11:38
SPEAKER_03: And...
11:39
SPEAKER_03: When I watched this,
11:40
SPEAKER_03: I was like,
11:41
SPEAKER_03: five years ago,
11:41
SPEAKER_03: I would have responded to a tweet like this by being like,
11:44
SPEAKER_03: this person is a conspiratorial lunatic.
11:47
Who thinks the White House press secretary could be in on some
11:51
inside trader prediction market?
11:53
SPEAKER_03: Who knows?
11:54
SPEAKER_03: Would this shock you in the least if we found out this actually happened?
11:57
I mean,
11:57
it wouldn't shock me that there was some insider trading going
12:00
on.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely not.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: And in fact, I want in on this.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: If anybody listening to this, anything.
12:06
SPEAKER_03: She's probably a listener, Carolyn Levitt.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she probably is.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: But on these poly markets, you can bet on literally anything.
12:13
So if anybody has a connection with clavicular and you know
12:17
what his next surgery
12:18
SPEAKER_02: is going to be,
12:19
SPEAKER_02: just get at me.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm very interested in getting into insider trading.
12:22
SPEAKER_03: Every time I open up Robinhood.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: And check out your, you have what, one penny in Robinhood?
12:27
SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
12:28
SPEAKER_02: Or no, that was your crypto holdings.
12:31
One of the few things I'm decent at is knowing to just put
12:33
stuff in index funds.
12:35
SPEAKER_03: And every time I open up Robinhood,
12:36
SPEAKER_03: it's like,
12:37
would you like to look at your index fund and not touch it like
12:40
a responsible
12:41
SPEAKER_03: adult?
12:42
SPEAKER_03: Or could I interest you in sports gambling?
12:44
SPEAKER_03: It's just it's absolutely everywhere and it's horrible.
12:47
Anyway,
12:47
that I just wanted to bring that to your attention because I
12:49
found that funny.
12:50
SPEAKER_03: But today,
12:51
the two online bullshit meets real life things we're going to
12:54
talk about are Sia
12:55
SPEAKER_03: Weaver,
12:55
SPEAKER_03: a woman whose life I will explain shortly,
12:59
SPEAKER_03: and a country called Venezuela that has been in the news lately.
13:03
SPEAKER_03: And I should also say there's also a,
13:07
SPEAKER_03: unfortunately,
13:07
SPEAKER_03: a very online angle to the stuff currently going on in Minneapolis.
13:10
And we're going to have a premium episode about that,
13:12
I believe,
13:13
next week.
13:14
SPEAKER_03: Okay, let's start with Sia Weaver.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: I was wondering how to pronounce that name.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: I thought maybe it was C, or what I wanted it to be was Ka.
13:25
SPEAKER_03: You know...
13:26
SPEAKER_03: Now that I think about it,
13:27
SPEAKER_03: the way I fact-checked this was I Googled just YouTube videos about her,
13:32
SPEAKER_03: and the one I watched was Megyn Kelly.
13:33
SPEAKER_03: Do we trust that Megyn Kelly pronounced it correctly?
13:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Megyn Kelly's never wrong about anything.
13:39
SPEAKER_03: Katie, I just checked a legitimate news source.
13:40
SPEAKER_03: Not that Megyn Kelly isn't, and it is.
13:42
SPEAKER_03: In fact, Sia Weaver...
13:44
SPEAKER_03: So,
13:45
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
13:45
SPEAKER_03: the problem is she's appointed to this office,
13:48
SPEAKER_03: mayor's office,
13:48
SPEAKER_03: to protect or protect tenants.
13:52
SPEAKER_03: Turned out she's posted some pretty wacky stuff.
13:54
SPEAKER_03: We got this from 2019.
13:55
SPEAKER_03: Katie, please read.
13:57
SPEAKER_03: Read in your best... Private school?
13:59
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
14:00
SPEAKER_03: Social justice activist group.
14:01
SPEAKER_03: Private school social justice activist group.
14:03
SPEAKER_02: Private property, including and kind of especially.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: You didn't put enough.
14:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:07
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
14:07
SPEAKER_03: All caps.
14:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Especially home ownership is a weapon of white supremacy masquerading as,
14:13
SPEAKER_02: quote,
14:13
SPEAKER_02: wealth building public policy.
14:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: How many homes does she own?
14:17
SPEAKER_02: Just curious.
14:18
SPEAKER_03: Well, we're going to get to that.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
14:20
SPEAKER_03: It's less her and her parents.
14:21
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
14:21
Someone should tell the leaders of BLM who spent all of the
14:27
donations on like six
14:29
SPEAKER_02: mansions,
14:29
they should tell them that wealth building and homeownership is
14:33
actually white
14:34
SPEAKER_02: supremacy.
14:35
SPEAKER_03: In 2017, she and just to situate this, she graduated college in 2010.
14:41
SPEAKER_03: So these aren't tweets from when she was like 15.
14:44
SPEAKER_03: So there was a tweet in 2017 from East Harlem Preservation.
14:46
SPEAKER_03: East Harlem corner named for Vito Marcantonio, seven term U.S.
14:49
SPEAKER_03: congressman, to which she, quote, retweeted.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: And communists elect more communists.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: Was he a communist?
14:55
SPEAKER_03: But she's saying elect more communists.
14:57
SPEAKER_03: That's the main thing.
14:58
SPEAKER_03: So the Washington Post summed up more of this as follows in an editorial.
15:02
SPEAKER_03: On a recently deactivated Twitter account,
15:04
SPEAKER_03: New York's new tenant Sarina posted in 2021 that rent control is,
15:07
SPEAKER_03: quote,
15:08
SPEAKER_03: a perfect...
15:09
SPEAKER_03: rent control is,
15:11
SPEAKER_03: quote,
15:11
SPEAKER_03: a perfect solution to everything,
15:13
SPEAKER_03: end quote,
15:13
SPEAKER_03: and bragged that it's,
15:14
SPEAKER_03: quote,
15:14
SPEAKER_03: a more effective way to shrink the value of real estate,
15:17
SPEAKER_03: end quote,
15:17
SPEAKER_03: than zoning restrictions.
15:18
SPEAKER_03: In 2018, she wrote, impoverish the white middle class.
15:23
SPEAKER_03: Homeownership is racist, failed public policy.
15:25
SPEAKER_03: That same year,
15:26
SPEAKER_03: she said,
15:26
there's no such thing as a good gentrifier and described
15:29
gentrification as part of
15:30
SPEAKER_03: a centuries-long process of white supremacy.
15:32
SPEAKER_03: They also mentioned her calling to elect more communists.
15:35
SPEAKER_03: She also has valorized the idea of government seizing
15:39
SPEAKER_03: private property.
15:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh, interesting.
15:40
SPEAKER_02: So,
15:41
SPEAKER_02: you know,
15:41
SPEAKER_02: when the government has seized private property through eminent domain,
15:45
SPEAKER_02: you know,
15:45
you often hear about how historically that has happened in
15:49
black neighborhoods.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: Is she in favor of that?
15:52
SPEAKER_02: It kind of sounds like she is.
15:54
SPEAKER_03: Right.
15:54
SPEAKER_03: So look,
15:54
SPEAKER_03: just to be fair,
15:56
she would say the idea is to seize like rich people's homes and
16:01
redistribute them
16:03
SPEAKER_03: to the public to sort of socialize private housing.
16:06
So there's a conservative journalist pundit in Seattle named
16:10
Brandy Cruz.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: She used to be on one of the local TV radio stations.
16:14
SPEAKER_02: Now she does her own thing.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: And she recently I saw I didn't watch the whole thing,
16:17
SPEAKER_02: but she had this interview with Sean Scott,
16:20
SPEAKER_02: who's a Washington state representative,
16:22
SPEAKER_02: newly elected from from the Seattle area.
16:26
SPEAKER_02: And Sean Scott, he's also he's a Democrat, but he's like DSA type.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: And Brandy asked him.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: where he could point to a place where socialism has worked really well.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: And he said, Cuba.
16:40
And Brandy was like,
16:41
are you aware that people flee Cuba on rafts to get to the
16:46
United States?
16:47
SPEAKER_02: And he was just sort of like,
16:49
he was like completely like that is the best example of
16:51
socialism that he could
16:52
SPEAKER_02: come up with is the place where they have crumbling,
16:55
SPEAKER_02: crumbling homes and they're driving 1950s fucking cars.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: And he like, you could have, you could have made an argument.
17:00
He should have made an argument in that moment that while the
17:04
problem is sanctions,
17:05
SPEAKER_02: the problem,
17:06
SPEAKER_02: this is,
17:06
SPEAKER_02: this is the imperialist fault.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: He
17:08
SPEAKER_03: But he was too dumb to even make the basic argument.
17:10
What he talked about instead was that if the shoe had been on
17:15
the other foot and
17:17
SPEAKER_02: Americans in Miami were fleeing towards Cuba and they got to Cuba,
17:21
SPEAKER_02: they would have gotten free health care.
17:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:24
I mean,
17:25
there was a really sad article in the Times about what's going
17:27
on in Cuba.
17:28
SPEAKER_03: I think I mentioned this on the podcast before,
17:30
SPEAKER_03: when I was there with a couple of friends,
17:31
SPEAKER_03: and the small subset of Cubans I talked to,
17:35
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't sure how forthcoming they would be,
17:38
SPEAKER_03: but they're furious at their government,
17:40
SPEAKER_03: and they hate it.
17:40
And a lot of them also aren't happy about sanctions,
17:42
because the sanctions are really stupid.
17:44
But this idea that...
17:45
Well,
17:45
we're actually going to get into this when we talk about
17:47
Venezuela.
17:47
SPEAKER_03: This idea that... Gasano...
17:54
SPEAKER_03: Discourse.
17:55
SPEAKER_03: You'll know.
17:55
SPEAKER_03: I'll teach you.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
17:56
SPEAKER_03: We're going to do a little Spanish language later on.
17:58
SPEAKER_03: So four years ago,
18:00
New York's public advocate tried to appoint Cia Weaver to the
18:03
City Planning
18:03
SPEAKER_03: Commission.
18:04
SPEAKER_03: This is something that requires confirmation.
18:06
SPEAKER_03: When folks found out who she was, it didn't go well.
18:09
SPEAKER_03: Of course, Fox News naturally is on the case.
18:11
SPEAKER_03: Katie, read this little excerpt, please.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: Assemblyman Kalman Yeager told Fox News Digital,
18:16
SPEAKER_02: quote,
18:16
SPEAKER_02: we learned a little more about this person.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: And I guess from my perspective,
18:20
SPEAKER_02: it was one of the more out there comments,
18:22
SPEAKER_02: not just the political philosophy per se,
18:24
SPEAKER_02: but the things she actually said verbatim.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeager told Fox News Digital,
18:28
as he recalled the discontent that led to Weaver's nomination
18:31
being withdrawn.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: Quote, things like home ownership is white supremacy.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: I think that's just ridiculous.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: And to be quite frank,
18:37
SPEAKER_02: I think it would surprise a lot of my black,
18:38
Latino and Caribbean American constituents who have struggled
18:41
their entire lives to
18:42
buy a piece of New York and are raising middle class families
18:44
in my community to
18:45
SPEAKER_02: find out that they're participating in white supremacy by doing so.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: Makes sense.
18:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
18:50
SPEAKER_03: and I think Yeager is sort of a moderate to conservative Democrat type,
18:53
SPEAKER_03: but he's technically a Democrat.
18:55
SPEAKER_03: So I'm guessing this sort of person,
18:57
SPEAKER_03: the Sia Weaver type,
18:58
SPEAKER_03: who says things like home ownership is white supremacy,
19:01
SPEAKER_03: you're familiar with this type from your Seattle days.
19:04
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you were just talking about someone in this mold.
19:06
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
19:06
SPEAKER_03: So in a certain way,
19:07
SPEAKER_03: like the rhetoric,
19:08
SPEAKER_03: especially 2017,
19:10
SPEAKER_03: 2018,
19:14
SPEAKER_03: 2019,
19:10
SPEAKER_03: it's sort of standard issue performative lefty online rhetoric.
19:14
Part of the reason conservatives are really going after her is
19:17
because she has
19:17
SPEAKER_03: painted a target on her back.
19:19
SPEAKER_03: So Katie,
19:19
SPEAKER_03: guess without checking,
19:22
Sia Weaver's own relationship to things like gentrification and
19:26
homeownership.
19:27
Not only white,
19:27
not only homeownership,
19:28
but the worst kind,
19:30
Hawaii homeownership.
19:32
Uh,
19:32
I'm guessing that she is herself a gentrifier who either owns a
19:38
home or comes from wealth.
19:39
I'm guessing her parents probably live in a very nice place
19:43
somewhere in the
19:43
SPEAKER_02: suburbs of,
19:44
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
19:45
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
19:45
SPEAKER_03: Not quite nude, but yeah.
19:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
19:47
SPEAKER_03: She, she sort of,
19:48
Ticks every conceivable box in terms of someone who's going to
19:51
like really,
19:52
SPEAKER_03: you know,
19:53
SPEAKER_03: rile up conservatives and understandably so.
19:55
SPEAKER_03: She lives in Crown Heights,
19:57
SPEAKER_03: which is this neighborhood that has been I mean,
20:00
SPEAKER_03: it's a very large neighborhood,
20:01
but parts of it have been like major epicenters of fights over
20:04
gentrification in
20:05
SPEAKER_02: Brooklyn.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: Do we know where she's from originally?
20:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, she went to Bryn Mawr for undergrad and NYU for grad school.
20:11
And she's from Rochester,
20:13
which is not a super fancy place,
20:14
but has,
20:15
like,
20:15
nice suburbs.
20:16
SPEAKER_03: And it was quickly...
20:17
SPEAKER_02: Rochester's a place where you can,
20:18
SPEAKER_02: like,
20:18
SPEAKER_02: a good place to go buy a home if you can handle the weather.
20:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:22
SPEAKER_03: Well,
20:22
SPEAKER_03: and conservative outlets,
20:24
SPEAKER_03: presumably within 10 seconds of the tweets about white homeownership,
20:27
SPEAKER_03: found out that at least one of her parents owns,
20:30
SPEAKER_03: like,
20:30
SPEAKER_03: a $1.6 million home,
20:32
SPEAKER_03: which,
20:32
SPEAKER_03: like,
20:32
SPEAKER_03: we should be clear,
20:33
SPEAKER_03: in 2026,
20:33
SPEAKER_03: that's not,
20:35
SPEAKER_03: like,
20:35
SPEAKER_03: a super mega mansion in most places.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, it depends on where you live.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: That would be a super mega mansion in probably Arkansas.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
20:43
SPEAKER_02: In a place like Seattle, that could be a fucking townhouse.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: Maybe not a townhouse, but yeah.
20:48
SPEAKER_03: That's the thing, right.
20:49
And I'm not...
20:50
Most Americans cannot afford a $1.6 million home is the point.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: Wait, $1.6?
20:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, she's just... If it was one, okay, $1.6?
20:58
Well,
20:58
I think what I would say,
20:59
I'm trying to...
21:00
People are going to get mad at me about this.
21:01
SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to walk a line where I do think people...
21:05
as soon as they put million in the price of a house if people
21:09
do sometimes act as
21:10
though that means it's like some giant mansion but like in 2026
21:14
there's like i'm
21:15
saying most americans could not afford a house of that at 1.6
21:17
million dollar house
21:18
it doesn't mean she comes from like massive generational wealth
21:20
no my sister lives
21:21
in a town in colorado that is incredibly expensive she lives in
21:25
a very very
21:28
SPEAKER_02: like standard ranch style home, it's a million dollar home.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: It's not a, it's like, we're talking like a three bedroom, two bath.
21:35
SPEAKER_02: It's a million dollar home.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: It just really depends on where you live.
21:38
Um,
21:39
so part of why I'm like a little bit conflicted about this
21:42
story is,
21:42
um,
21:45
And part of what's silly about all these performative tweets is
21:47
that by all
21:47
SPEAKER_03: accounts,
21:48
SPEAKER_03: like in terms of actually walking the walk,
21:50
SPEAKER_03: she moved to Crown Heights.
21:51
She very quickly got involved in tenant organizing and tenants'
21:55
rights battles.
21:56
It's not like she moved to Crown Heights and then telecommuted
21:59
to a tech job or something.
22:01
SPEAKER_03: So she's a good gentrifier.
22:03
SPEAKER_03: I think she's a good gentrifier.
22:05
But of course,
22:06
she painted the target on her back by tweeting incredibly dumb
22:09
stuff.
22:10
But this gets back to an issue that comes up a lot on Bar Pod
22:13
and which that
22:13
SPEAKER_03: assemblyman just mentioned.
22:16
There's just sort of light years between the radical chic stuff
22:19
that highly
22:19
educated socialists and communist types say and the beliefs of
22:22
the people they
22:23
SPEAKER_03: claim to want to represent and protect.
22:25
SPEAKER_03: Right.
22:26
SPEAKER_03: Home ownership is very much woven into the idea of the American dream.
22:29
SPEAKER_03: And in New York,
22:30
there are a lot of people who are not white and often who are
22:34
not rich because like
22:35
they bought their homes at a time when things weren't as crazy
22:39
as they are now.
22:40
SPEAKER_03: And they either take pride in owning a home or they hope to own a home.
22:43
SPEAKER_03: These are very normal feelings.
22:44
SPEAKER_03: Right.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
22:46
Home ownership has historically been the path to building a
22:50
middle class in this country.
22:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:52
SPEAKER_03: So the problem is it's this divide where,
22:56
SPEAKER_03: like,
22:56
I would imagine a lot of the work she does on behalf of tenants
23:00
is genuinely
23:00
SPEAKER_03: useful.
23:01
But if you're working with a group of people and you're trying
23:06
to help them,
23:06
but you also hold these beliefs that are just wildly out of
23:09
step with what they
23:10
SPEAKER_03: think,
23:10
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
23:11
SPEAKER_03: There's like a divide there worth...
23:13
Thinking about,
23:14
and I feel like a lot of these folks don't really think about
23:16
that.
23:18
SPEAKER_03: In your experience,
23:20
do they justify the fact that they believe things that the poor
23:23
people of color
23:24
SPEAKER_03: they represent don't believe at all?
23:25
SPEAKER_03: Do they try to?
23:25
SPEAKER_03: Is it like a false consciousness argument almost?
23:28
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
23:30
SPEAKER_02: when I was at The Stranger,
23:32
SPEAKER_02: I saw this fairly frequently because the people I worked with shared...
23:38
SPEAKER_02: Sea Weaver's politics.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: And it obviously didn't represent...
23:44
SPEAKER_02: In no way did they represent the constituents of South Seattle,
23:50
SPEAKER_02: who are often immigrants,
23:52
SPEAKER_02: poor people,
23:52
SPEAKER_02: black people.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: It's just light years away from what people actually want.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: And I would see this in...
23:59
SPEAKER_02: For instance,
23:59
SPEAKER_02: endorsement endorsement meetings,
24:01
SPEAKER_02: when candidates for office would come in,
24:03
SPEAKER_02: and you would have my colleagues,
24:05
SPEAKER_02: all of whom were college educated,
24:06
SPEAKER_02: all of whom were raised middle class,
24:10
SPEAKER_02: even if they were making shit wages at the stranger,
24:13
SPEAKER_02: which they were,
24:14
SPEAKER_02: most of them were renters,
24:15
SPEAKER_02: except Charles one day,
24:16
SPEAKER_02: our resident communist,
24:19
SPEAKER_02: columnist,
24:19
SPEAKER_02: he was a homeowner,
24:20
SPEAKER_02: also black.
24:22
But you would see my white colleagues,
24:25
white born middle class colleagues,
24:28
talking to these people running for office to represent their
24:32
actual neighborhoods.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: And what my colleagues wanted was like defunding the police.
24:36
And what the people who actually lived in these neighborhoods
24:38
wanted was not
24:39
SPEAKER_02: defunding the police.
24:39
They wanted better policing because they saw crime in their
24:44
neighborhoods and their
24:45
constituents didn't want to be fucking worried about getting
24:48
robbed or getting shot
24:49
SPEAKER_02: on the street.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, to me.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: And to me,
24:52
it was just it was embarrassing to be able to be like on the
24:56
side that was
24:57
SPEAKER_02: advocating for policies that were actually going to hurt the people,
25:00
SPEAKER_02: not the people who were in that meeting by any means,
25:04
SPEAKER_02: but the people who actually lived in these neighborhoods.
25:06
SPEAKER_03: It's funny,
25:08
the defunding the police thing popped up on my feet because
25:11
Hamilton Nolan,
25:12
SPEAKER_03: who's a pretty respected lefty,
25:14
SPEAKER_03: laborish writer,
25:16
SPEAKER_03: just posted a piece.
25:18
SPEAKER_03: I'll just read the subsect thing.
25:19
SPEAKER_03: Defunding the police was always a good idea.
25:21
The political establishment's rejection of it helped to lead us
25:24
to where we are now.
25:25
SPEAKER_03: If you were skeptical of it, take the opportunity to reconsider.
25:28
SPEAKER_03: And there's a horrible photo of...
25:31
SPEAKER_03: bloodstained airbag from where that woman was killed in Minneapolis.
25:35
SPEAKER_02: Here's another idea, Hamilton.
25:37
Is it possible that rhetoric like defunding the police
25:40
indirectly led to the
25:41
SPEAKER_02: election of Donald Trump?
25:43
Has he has he has that occurred to him at all that people that
25:46
most Americans don't
25:47
SPEAKER_02: like fucking radicalism?
25:49
SPEAKER_02: And they rebel against that.
25:50
SPEAKER_02: And this is all part of the fucking backlash.
25:52
SPEAKER_03: Well, right.
25:53
SPEAKER_03: And I don't I don't know if that's true,
25:55
but I guess it's unclear to me why his theory that right center
26:00
left people
26:01
rejecting defunding the police that got us to this woman being
26:04
killed in Minnesota
26:05
when the thing that happened that got us woman being killed in
26:07
Minnesota most
26:08
SPEAKER_03: directly was Trump being elected.
26:10
SPEAKER_03: So it really depends on like,
26:12
do you do you really think a Democratic platform of defunding
26:16
the police would
26:16
SPEAKER_03: appeal to the people the Democrats need to win back?
26:19
SPEAKER_03: What's the evidence for that?
26:20
That's Kamala would have done way better if she had if she had
26:24
entered the race and
26:25
SPEAKER_02: said,
26:25
SPEAKER_02: you know what we need?
26:26
SPEAKER_02: Let's just get rid of the cops.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: That's what would have done it.
26:29
SPEAKER_03: The TikTok video.
26:29
SPEAKER_03: I also think Tim Wall should have called J.D.
26:32
SPEAKER_03: Vance weird more.
26:32
SPEAKER_03: That would have really.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, that would have done it.
26:35
It's probably because she waffled on transgender surgeries for
26:37
illegal aliens in prison.
26:39
SPEAKER_03: I guess part of me feels like, what am I missing here?
26:44
Because Sia Weaver does actually work with struggling New
26:48
Yorkers every day.
26:50
SPEAKER_03: I mean, do we know that?
26:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:52
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
26:52
SPEAKER_03: She has a long history of actual tenant organizing.
26:55
SPEAKER_03: She's working with people who I think are...
26:58
SPEAKER_03: Bad New York landlords are really bad.
27:01
SPEAKER_03: I'm lucky I don't have one.
27:03
SPEAKER_03: But they're really bad.
27:03
SPEAKER_03: And I guess I don't understand the disconnect.
27:07
I do think the way – I think it's often false consciousness
27:11
arguments that poor
27:12
people have been fooled into adopting the mindset that they
27:15
should be homeowners.
27:16
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's basically how they argue it.
27:19
SPEAKER_03: But I still remain confused by that.
27:20
SPEAKER_03: Anyway –
27:21
SPEAKER_02: I would be curious to know who like when you're doing tenant organizing,
27:25
SPEAKER_02: who are the sort of tenants that seek out tenant organizers?
27:28
SPEAKER_02: What do you mean?
27:29
Is it actually like poor black people and immigrants or is it
27:34
white educated people
27:35
SPEAKER_02: who have shitty landlords because they live in Park Slope?
27:39
SPEAKER_03: Well, Park Slope is like at this.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: OK, not Park Slope.
27:41
SPEAKER_02: All right.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: Give me a better example.
27:43
We'll include a link to a Times article that really gets into
27:45
the specifics.
27:45
This has to do with like a really crumbling rent-stabilized
27:48
building that is owned
27:50
SPEAKER_03: by this massive company that is going through bankruptcy and just,
27:54
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
27:54
SPEAKER_03: really bad shit.
27:55
SPEAKER_03: People not having hot water.
27:57
SPEAKER_03: So I think it's probably a mix.
27:59
I would imagine the tenant organizers are able to find the
28:02
sorts of tenants who
28:03
SPEAKER_03: they think should be organized.
28:04
SPEAKER_03: But I don't think it's the kind of thing where it's like only,
28:06
SPEAKER_03: I think there's like a real need here.
28:09
SPEAKER_03: There's like really bad buildings and bad landlords in New York.
28:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there's a need, but I'm curious about who are their clients.
28:15
I'm not asking you to have the answer,
28:17
but I would be curious to know who are their clients.
28:19
SPEAKER_03: Yes,
28:19
SPEAKER_03: we'll include...
28:20
There's a link in the show notes to a Times article about some
28:22
of this stuff.
28:23
Now,
28:24
one other sort of more circle jerky part of this I want to get
28:27
into...
28:28
There's also just this sort of double standard that I found a
28:33
little annoying.
28:35
This is more circle jerky,
28:36
but read this from super close friend of the pod,
28:40
David Cleon.
28:42
SPEAKER_03: He's quote, quote, retweeting something about C. Weaver.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: I know she slightly and have always found her impressive and serious.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: I see that one of her regrettable tweets was a 2018 quote tweet of mine,
28:51
SPEAKER_02: probably also regrettable but long deleted.
28:54
As millennials achieve political power,
28:56
we're going to need a general amnesty on battle.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: Tweets.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the fucking party, David.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: You're a little late.
29:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:03
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
29:03
SPEAKER_03: he's he anyone who's sort of he's come up on the show before,
29:07
but he represents the type of Brooklyn lefty who is like pretty
29:13
merciless in their
29:14
SPEAKER_03: assessments of others.
29:14
SPEAKER_03: Obviously, I've had he does.
29:16
SPEAKER_03: He does not like me.
29:17
SPEAKER_03: He has been invited on the he's been invited on the podcast.
29:19
SPEAKER_03: He's
29:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: Is he the one who did that?
29:22
He did some I think it was him did some article about like
29:26
where the Harper's
29:27
letter like what like like trying to catalog the Harper's
29:31
letters signatories on on
29:35
SPEAKER_02: Trump's free attacks on free speech,
29:37
SPEAKER_02: something that we've talked about on this podcast.
29:40
SPEAKER_03: Oh,
29:40
he did the they all sign the Harper's letter where they are now
29:43
at like a five year
29:44
SPEAKER_03: retrospective.
29:45
And yeah,
29:45
and it was like it was like he only all he did was like search
29:48
tweets.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't tweet.
29:50
SPEAKER_02: So have I tweeted about Trump's attacks on free speech?
29:54
SPEAKER_02: No, I haven't.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: Have I talked about it ad nauseum on my fucking podcast?
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I have.
30:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:02
SPEAKER_03: And of course,
30:02
he had previously tweeted that actually bad tweets are a good
30:05
warning sign of
30:06
SPEAKER_03: people who shouldn't be in politics.
30:07
SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
30:08
SPEAKER_03: What this comes down to is everyone knows this at some point,
30:12
SPEAKER_03: but in our crappy little media world and academia world,
30:16
there's just this obvious double standard where if you're seen
30:19
as a good leftist or
30:21
SPEAKER_03: a Mamdani supporter,
30:23
SPEAKER_03: a Bernie supporter,
30:23
SPEAKER_03: AOC supporter...
30:26
SPEAKER_03: You'll be granted huge leeway to just make little slip-ups,
30:31
SPEAKER_03: like saying we should impoverish the white working class.
30:34
SPEAKER_03: If you're not seen as a leftist,
30:35
if you're seen as one of those evil – and the people they're
30:37
most obsessed with are
30:38
SPEAKER_03: not fascists or conservatives,
30:40
SPEAKER_03: but center-left people,
30:42
SPEAKER_03: liberals –
30:43
tiniest slip up or expressing an opinion most of the country
30:46
agrees with can incite
30:47
a shit storm and um people like david cleon will do everything
30:51
they can to like
30:51
render such people sort of canceled and unemployable and uh
30:55
it's just it's sort of
30:58
i think a lot of people who are familiar with david cleon
31:00
freaked out when they saw
31:01
this sweet i did a little bit too it's just there's a huge
31:03
level of hypocrisy there
31:04
SPEAKER_03: right yeah
31:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
31:06
SPEAKER_02: and on the one hand,
31:07
SPEAKER_02: it's like,
31:09
do I want people to all come around to the position that we
31:12
have had for like seven
31:13
SPEAKER_02: years that people's old,
31:16
SPEAKER_02: that there should be,
31:17
SPEAKER_02: maybe not amnesty,
31:18
but people shouldn't be like lose jobs and be publicly shamed
31:22
for old tweets.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: Everybody should come to that conclusion with some.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: But he doesn't, I think he doesn't actually believe it.
31:28
SPEAKER_03: He just believes it for him and his friend should have one side rules.
31:30
SPEAKER_03: Everyone else should.
31:32
SPEAKER_03: I will say like, I, I,
31:35
In terms of Sia Weaver's ability to do this particular job for
31:38
this particular
31:38
SPEAKER_03: administration,
31:39
SPEAKER_03: I'm actually not sure her dumb commie tweets bear that much on that.
31:43
SPEAKER_03: I don't think she's going to be in a position to end private property.
31:48
SPEAKER_03: Good luck.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: Ending private property in Manhattan.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, good luck with that.
31:53
SPEAKER_02: So,
31:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
31:54
SPEAKER_02: how I am curious,
31:55
how concerned are you about a communist running the country or
32:02
running the city
32:02
SPEAKER_02: that you live in?
32:04
SPEAKER_03: I don't think he's a communist.
32:05
I think that thing that he said at the inauguration about the
32:08
warmth of collectivism.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:10
He said we will replace the frigidity of rugged individualism
32:13
with the warmth of collectivism.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: That sounds fucking communist to me.
32:17
Yeah,
32:18
I mean,
32:18
I would generally defer to Matt Iglesias on a lot of policy
32:21
stuff.
32:21
SPEAKER_03: He thinks Mamdani is off to a strong start.
32:25
SPEAKER_03: No, I'm honestly not concerned.
32:28
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we'll see what happens.
32:30
SPEAKER_03: There's areas where I could potentially be concerned if,
32:33
SPEAKER_03: generally speaking,
32:34
the mayor's office takes a more aggressive stance toward
32:36
protecting tenants.
32:38
Obviously,
32:38
a lot of these policy issues are more complicated than they
32:42
appear.
32:43
SPEAKER_03: For example,
32:43
if you're a company that owns rent-stabilized housing that
32:46
limits the amount of
32:47
SPEAKER_03: money you can make,
32:49
they claim it makes it harder to do maintenance in this
32:55
bankruptcy in this New York
32:57
SPEAKER_03: Times story I linked to in the notes.
32:59
SPEAKER_03: The company said that,
33:00
but they also spent the money they did have on hand on legal
33:03
and administrative
33:04
SPEAKER_03: stuff.
33:04
SPEAKER_03: It gets really complicated.
33:07
SPEAKER_03: No,
33:07
SPEAKER_03: overall,
33:08
like I don't if Cia Weaver is I don't think she's going to have
33:10
the power to do the
33:12
SPEAKER_03: really crazy stuff she believes in.
33:14
SPEAKER_03: And if I don't view it as a problem,
33:17
SPEAKER_03: if like the mayor's office is more on the side of tenants,
33:19
SPEAKER_03: I don't.
33:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, you're not a homeowner, Jesse.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: And you're not white.
33:23
SPEAKER_03: I'm a tenant.
33:23
SPEAKER_03: I'm a tenant.
33:24
Although I'm a tenant with a decent landlord who I don't think
33:27
is a bad guy.
33:29
SPEAKER_03: Anything else on this, Katie?
33:31
SPEAKER_03: Or should we do housekeeping?
33:32
SPEAKER_02: Let's do housekeeping.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: Good luck to everyone.
33:34
SPEAKER_03: You do housekeeping.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: We are a podcast.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: You can reach out to us at blockedandreportedpodcast at gmail.com.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: That's the best place to send tips,
33:42
SPEAKER_02: complaints,
33:43
SPEAKER_02: pictures of...
33:44
SPEAKER_02: What do you want pictures of,
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Jesse?
33:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:45
SPEAKER_03: Not feet.
33:45
SPEAKER_03: We get more than enough of those.
33:47
SPEAKER_03: No more feet, guys.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Just stop.
33:48
SPEAKER_02: Not feet.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: Recommendations for Jessie's time in Northern California.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: Invitations to your... Is Ayla's there?
33:55
SPEAKER_02: Are you going to go to some Ayla parties?
33:56
SPEAKER_03: I was trying to remember if Ayla's there or did she move to Austin?
33:59
SPEAKER_02: I think she moved to Austin and then back.
34:01
SPEAKER_03: Then back.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: After someone tried to kidnap her in Austin.
34:05
SPEAKER_03: The problem is you can't...
34:05
I was going to send her an email in the way you send anyone who
34:09
you're like,
34:09
SPEAKER_03: no,
34:10
SPEAKER_03: I've met her a couple times.
34:11
SPEAKER_03: Like, oh, I'm moving to your place, but I...
34:13
SPEAKER_03: The last thing I heard her on was PJ vote on naked party.
34:17
So I need to make it clear that I'm not asking for an invite to
34:19
the naked party.
34:20
SPEAKER_03: I don't think I would be.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: So I guess that was the last thing.
34:23
I guess you didn't read her piece about how she threw a party
34:26
and asked all of her
34:28
SPEAKER_02: invitees if they would shit on the floor.
34:30
SPEAKER_03: Wait, sorry.
34:30
SPEAKER_03: She asked them to?
34:31
SPEAKER_03: Link in the show notes.
34:32
SPEAKER_03: Like as one of our weird hypothetical, like would you do this questions?
34:35
SPEAKER_02: It's a little bit more complicated than that.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to spoil it from anybody.
34:38
SPEAKER_03: It's more complicated than that?
34:41
SPEAKER_02: She asked if they would,
34:42
but some people apparently prepared by like shitting in a bag
34:47
and freezing it.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: So people were prepared to actually do this.
34:50
SPEAKER_03: I'm rethinking this move.
34:54
SPEAKER_03: I'll be going to the Bay Area.
34:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, she's oftentimes looking for housemates.
34:59
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
35:00
SPEAKER_03: Well, I happen to be taken care of on the... Okay.
35:04
SPEAKER_03: Well, there's going to be some... I don't know how to wrap this up.
35:06
SPEAKER_03: There's going to be some interesting stuff out there either way.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: Have fun, Jesse.
35:09
SPEAKER_03: Do the rest of housekeeping.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
35:11
SPEAKER_02: Where were we?
35:11
SPEAKER_02: We're a podcast.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: So that's where you can email us the best way.
35:14
SPEAKER_03: And really what is block to report a podcast at gmail.com.
35:17
The best and really only way to support the show is to become a
35:20
premium subscriber.
35:21
Our premium subscribers are truly the only reason this podcast
35:25
exists and we need more of them.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: Please, please become a primo.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: You get at least three extra episodes a month.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: You get access to a bunch of other good shit.
35:33
SPEAKER_02: Our comment section is, is really good.
35:36
There's like usually one or two assholes at any given time,
35:39
but I think that's necessary.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: just to keep the balance.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, don't lead with the assholes.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: It's an amazing ratio.
35:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the ratio is amazing.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: It's a really good place for conversation.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: We have a chat through the Substack app,
35:49
SPEAKER_02: so you can just go talk to your internet buddies.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: It's quite a nice place.
35:53
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I should.
35:53
SPEAKER_03: Actually,
35:53
SPEAKER_03: this is good timing because I think,
35:56
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to promise yet,
35:56
but I believe I'm going to try to do these meetups that have
36:00
historically been very
36:01
SPEAKER_03: fun.
36:02
Primo-only meetups in two different West Coast cities in the
36:05
weeks to come.
36:05
SPEAKER_03: So that's another reason.
36:06
SPEAKER_03: You'll get notified of that if you're a premium subscriber.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
36:09
You also get access to our new book club,
36:11
to the personal ads,
36:13
and our entire back catalog.
36:15
SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot there for $7 a month.
36:17
SPEAKER_02: So please join us.
36:18
SPEAKER_02: It really helps us out.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: And the other thing is, I got some terrible news today.
36:23
SPEAKER_02: So Jesse,
36:24
SPEAKER_02: as you know,
36:24
I'm doing an event with the illustrious Frank Bruni on January
36:29
26th at Duke.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: This is a public talk.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: It's free.
36:33
SPEAKER_02: It's open to anyone.
36:34
And they've had such a good response that they have moved it to
36:37
a bigger space.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: So now I need people to show up.
36:42
So if you are in the area or you want to just like fly in to go
36:46
see me speak for
36:47
SPEAKER_02: free at Duke,
36:48
SPEAKER_02: please do.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: I will post a link to the show notes.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: You can register on Duke's website to get tickets.
36:55
SPEAKER_02: You do have to register by January 20th.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: So please, I'm begging you now, please.
37:01
SPEAKER_03: All right, Katie, let's move on to Venezuela.
37:04
Just off the top of your head,
37:06
what are your...
37:07
Wait,
37:07
how are we going to pronounce this?
37:08
SPEAKER_02: Are we going to do the white way or Venezuela?
37:11
SPEAKER_02: Venezuela.
37:12
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to do a Spanish accent with a lisp.
37:14
SPEAKER_03: Actually, that's a spoiler, Spanish accent.
37:16
SPEAKER_02: That's an Argentinian accent.
37:18
SPEAKER_03: Venezuela.
37:19
SPEAKER_03: Well, parts of Spanish too.
37:20
SPEAKER_03: Part of Spain, too.
37:21
SPEAKER_03: Off the top of your head, don't look it up.
37:24
SPEAKER_03: What is your favorite thing about technically current,
37:27
SPEAKER_03: but in every real sense,
37:28
SPEAKER_03: former Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro?
37:31
SPEAKER_03: I know there's a lot, but what's your very favorite thing about him?
37:33
SPEAKER_02: Easy.
37:34
SPEAKER_02: He looks like Sazam Hussein.
37:35
SPEAKER_03: Sazam Hussein?
37:36
SPEAKER_03: Nicolas Maduro?
37:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:37
SPEAKER_03: Let me get a fact check on that.
37:38
SPEAKER_02: It's shocking.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:40
SPEAKER_02: He looks like... He really does.
37:42
SPEAKER_03: Well, a certain type of dictator loves that type of mustache.
37:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think Trump should get a mustache.
37:47
SPEAKER_03: Can Trump do decent facial hair?
37:49
SPEAKER_03: Not everyone can.
37:50
SPEAKER_02: He doesn't seem like the type.
37:52
SPEAKER_02: Do you know?
37:53
SPEAKER_02: I'm just I'm like, this is a real question, Jesse.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: Do you know where Venezuela is on a map?
37:57
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
37:58
SPEAKER_02: Did you know before this week?
38:01
I did.
38:03
SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
38:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:05
SPEAKER_03: I thought that was going to be some sort of gotcha.
38:09
SPEAKER_03: That I was going to be like, Australia.
38:11
SPEAKER_02: I did not.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: I did not actually know.
38:13
SPEAKER_02: And I knew it was in South America, but I couldn't have told you where.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: So I took the time in the past week to memorize the entire episode.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: map of South America minus the capitals.
38:23
SPEAKER_02: If you want to know where Bolivia is, French Guiana, I got you.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
38:27
SPEAKER_02: You must have... I got the whole thing.
38:28
SPEAKER_03: Your third grade teacher must be so proud of you.
38:30
SPEAKER_03: You memorized all of them.
38:31
SPEAKER_02: I think that was like eighth grade.
38:34
SPEAKER_02: I was in... I can't do Canada, but I can do South America now.
38:36
I was in Colombia in grad school with some friends and we were
38:40
by the border with Venezuela.
38:42
SPEAKER_03: And outside of certain homes in this part of Colombia,
38:44
there'll be a little plastic bottle with a little bit of
38:47
gasoline in it because
38:48
SPEAKER_03: Venezuela produces so much gas and it got illegally...
38:53
SPEAKER_03: moved across the border, and then Colombians would sell it to people.
38:56
SPEAKER_03: Just in little bottles?
38:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:57
There'd be a little bottle outside the home being like,
39:00
we have gas here if you want to buy gas.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: Okay, got it.
39:03
SPEAKER_03: Not like, this is all the gas we have.
39:04
SPEAKER_03: We want one ounce of gasoline.
39:06
It's like,
39:07
what is somebody going to do with a couple of teaspoons of gas?
39:10
SPEAKER_02: You confused me there.
39:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:11
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so that's your favorite thing about Maduro.
39:13
And then in Venezuela,
39:14
they have a little bag of cocaine outside their homes.
39:17
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
39:19
SPEAKER_03: So yes,
39:21
part of what makes this interesting as an online phenomenon is
39:24
the way these two
39:25
SPEAKER_03: really different questions have gotten conflated.
39:28
SPEAKER_03: So one of the questions involves the act's legality.
39:34
Which obviously that's what we're going to focus on as a public
39:36
policy podcast.
39:39
SPEAKER_03: People can probably guess how I feel about the Dunro Doctrine.
39:42
SPEAKER_03: I am glad that's what they're calling it.
39:45
SPEAKER_03: Oh my God.
39:47
SPEAKER_03: I guess this whole thing's been worth it because we have Dunro Doctrine.
39:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:51
But the other question is like how real life humans with real
39:54
life histories
39:55
respond to bad things happening to people they hate and people
39:59
who have hurt them.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: So let's start with a little contrast here.
40:03
SPEAKER_03: First,
40:04
SPEAKER_03: forgive me for linking you to end wokeness,
40:07
SPEAKER_03: but watch this scene,
40:08
SPEAKER_03: which we're also going to embed and describe to me what's going on.
40:11
SPEAKER_03: This was in Seattle, so it should warm the cockles of your heart.
40:15
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
40:17
SPEAKER_02: Looks like a trans woman, I'd say.
40:20
SPEAKER_03: I don't know how you know that.
40:21
SPEAKER_03: No, I don't.
40:23
SPEAKER_03: It's just a person.
40:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm a skilled transvestigator.
40:35
my arms were drawn to the venezuela flag armband okay venezuela
40:39
farm armband it's
40:40
this person is cosplaying as a revolutionary i would say straw
40:44
hat it's a white
40:44
person wearing a farmer's hat and a t-shirt i can't read the
40:47
t-shirt what's it say
40:48
SPEAKER_03: i don't know
40:49
SPEAKER_03: Actually, I wanted this to be educational for you.
40:51
SPEAKER_03: So repeat after me, Katie.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: La lucha.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: La lucha.
40:55
SPEAKER_03: Sigue.
40:56
SPEAKER_02: Sigue.
40:57
SPEAKER_03: Now put it all together.
40:58
SPEAKER_03: La lucha sigue.
40:59
SPEAKER_02: La lucha sigue.
40:59
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what that means?
41:00
SPEAKER_02: La lucha means lunch club.
41:04
SPEAKER_02: And sigue means... Okay, this is offensive.
41:07
SPEAKER_02: Lucha means milk.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: And sigue means...
41:13
SPEAKER_02: Let the dictator go.
41:14
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
41:14
SPEAKER_03: You actually nailed it.
41:16
SPEAKER_03: La lucha sigue means the struggle continues.
41:20
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
41:20
SPEAKER_02: Do you think this is a Venezuelan?
41:24
SPEAKER_02: No.
41:24
SPEAKER_02: Based on the pronunciation.
41:27
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
41:28
SPEAKER_03: That was perfect.
41:29
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
41:29
SPEAKER_03: Now watch this second one and describe it for me.
41:34
SPEAKER_02: This is the text.
41:36
Venezuelans learn at their workplaces about the fall of the
41:38
tyrant Nicolas Maduro
41:40
SPEAKER_02: and burst into tears of joy.
41:42
SPEAKER_03: Translated from Spanish.
41:43
SPEAKER_02: And this is a bunch of women looking at their phones.
41:48
Looks like they work at a restaurant and they're indeed crying
41:51
tears of joy.
41:52
SPEAKER_02: But we don't actually know.
41:54
I mean,
41:54
this could be they could have just found out that their
41:57
favorite team won Pop Idol.
41:58
SPEAKER_02: We don't actually know.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: But it is people who are crying tears of joy.
42:03
SPEAKER_03: Basically, anything we watch could be fake.
42:05
SPEAKER_03: And we don't know what anything.
42:06
SPEAKER_03: This is true.
42:07
SPEAKER_03: I mean, literally.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: These people might not exist.
42:10
SPEAKER_03: I'm exaggerating, but only slightly.
42:12
SPEAKER_03: And we're rapidly approaching a point where nothing we see or hear.
42:16
SPEAKER_02: No one was killed in Minnesota.
42:17
SPEAKER_03: No one was killed in Minnesota.
42:18
SPEAKER_03: Very.
42:18
SPEAKER_03: Venezuela, there was not.
42:20
SPEAKER_03: Kidnapping slash totally legal operation.
42:23
The divide here is there's a big Venezuelan diaspora because so
42:28
many millions of
42:29
people have fled that country because it's been in a
42:33
catastrophic state for a
42:34
SPEAKER_03: while.
42:35
SPEAKER_03: No small part due to Maduro.
42:37
SPEAKER_03: Obviously, there were people fleeing under Hugo Chavez as well.
42:39
SPEAKER_03: So this diaspora really hates Maduro.
42:42
SPEAKER_03: And as you will recall...
42:44
It's the rather overwhelming opinion of the international
42:47
community that Maduro
42:48
SPEAKER_03: lost the most recent election to a guy named Edmundo Gonzalez.
42:51
SPEAKER_03: He was sort of a stand in for Maria Karina Machado,
42:54
SPEAKER_03: who's this sort of heroic opposition figure who she just won a Nobel,
42:59
SPEAKER_02: right?
43:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:03
SPEAKER_02: For physics.
43:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: But did she win the FIFA Peace Award?
43:07
Well,
43:07
so what's,
43:09
I wasn't going to bring this up,
43:10
but I was sort of blinking at my screen.
43:13
Trump mentioned her and said it would be nice if she would give
43:17
him her Nobel Peace Prize.
43:19
SPEAKER_03: And then I was like, well, that's fucking insane.
43:21
And then like the next line in the story was Maria Karina
43:24
Machado has signaled a
43:26
SPEAKER_03: potential willingness to do that,
43:27
SPEAKER_03: to give her Nobel Peace Prize.
43:28
SPEAKER_03: She's a smart woman.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: Honestly.
43:30
But does Trump have a fourth grader's understanding of trophies
43:35
where he thinks if
43:36
SPEAKER_03: someone gives you a soccer trophy,
43:38
SPEAKER_03: you won the soccer tournament?
43:41
All of this would be so fucking funny if he weren't actually
43:45
the fucking president.
43:46
SPEAKER_03: The president.
43:47
SPEAKER_03: I know.
43:48
SPEAKER_03: We had it so good when he was a reality show star.
43:51
SPEAKER_03: That was the perfect role for him, and we couldn't let well enough be.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
43:55
SPEAKER_02: No one has ever been less suited for this job.
43:57
SPEAKER_02: He was perfect the way he was.
43:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:59
SPEAKER_02: He would be beloved as the you're fired guy.
44:03
SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
44:04
SPEAKER_03: So Maduro had basically his government had ruled Machado ineligible.
44:09
SPEAKER_03: Ineligible.
44:10
SPEAKER_03: Bull.
44:12
SPEAKER_03: So Edmundo Gonzalez, everyone thinks he won by a huge amount.
44:15
And then,
44:17
you know,
44:17
in the style of dictators everywhere,
44:19
Maduro was like,
44:21
no,
44:21
no me gusta.
44:23
SPEAKER_03: He lost.
44:24
SPEAKER_03: He lost resoundingly.
44:25
SPEAKER_03: He held on to power.
44:26
SPEAKER_03: Maybe Trump was jealous that he was able to do so.
44:28
So we've had our very own Spanish speaking producer,
44:30
Jessica,
44:31
the 80s baby looking into this.
44:33
SPEAKER_03: I do want to read.
44:34
Actually,
44:34
would you read this sort of jarring description of what she
44:36
wrote?
44:36
I think this context is important for the online bullshit that
44:38
would follow.
44:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:39
SPEAKER_02: We should also mention,
44:40
SPEAKER_02: so,
44:40
SPEAKER_02: um,
44:41
SPEAKER_02: she has lived in community with,
44:44
SPEAKER_02: I actually,
44:44
SPEAKER_02: I fucking hate when people say live in community,
44:46
SPEAKER_02: but she has,
44:47
SPEAKER_02: she knows a lot of Venezuelan.
44:49
I was going to mention,
44:50
she knows a lot of Venezuela and said,
44:52
like has been talking to them.
44:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:53
SPEAKER_02: The vast majority of people in Venezuela,
44:55
SPEAKER_02: the country with the most oil reserves in the world,
44:57
SPEAKER_02: live in abject poverty.
44:58
SPEAKER_02: Their country is full of resources and has incredibly fertile soil.
45:02
SPEAKER_02: Nevertheless,
45:02
they have suffered from the kind of mass hunger we normally see
45:05
only in Saharan
45:06
SPEAKER_02: Africa.
45:06
In 2017,
45:08
it was found that 75% of the population had lost around 20
45:12
pounds through malnutrition.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: Items like toilet paper and tampons have become black market commodities.
45:17
People are encouraged to turn out for pro-government
45:19
demonstrations because they'll
45:20
SPEAKER_02: get clap boxes,
45:21
which are boxes containing vital food and other essential items
45:25
like these dolls of
45:26
SPEAKER_02: Maduro and his wife.
45:27
SPEAKER_02: He's in his super mustache persona.
45:29
SPEAKER_02: And then there's a picture of Saddam Hussein dressed like Superman.
45:34
She said the latest trend in reaction videos is Venezuelan
45:37
exiles waking up their
45:38
SPEAKER_03: family members with the news that Maduro has been captured.
45:42
And she noted,
45:43
it's certainly a lot more fun to watch than the Stranger Things
45:45
finale.
45:45
SPEAKER_03: I cannot vouch for that as I'm, I think, four seasons behind now.
45:50
SPEAKER_03: One more thing.
45:50
SPEAKER_03: She wrote,
45:51
a close friend who has lived most of his life in Miami and
45:53
Spain said he never saw
45:55
SPEAKER_03: this day coming.
45:55
SPEAKER_03: Quote, we look at Cuba and see how long they've been suffering.
45:59
I left when I was seven years old and for years I've thought I
46:01
would never be able to return to
46:03
She also mentioned a friend who left in as an adult told me
46:07
that she's most looking
46:08
SPEAKER_03: forward to finally being able to visit her brother's grave.
46:11
SPEAKER_03: He was a lawyer who was shot dead in broad daylight by a collectivo.
46:15
Those are these paramilitary groups who actually in recent days
46:17
have apparently
46:18
been like making sure no one expresses support for Trump or for
46:23
the removal of
46:24
SPEAKER_03: Maduro.
46:24
SPEAKER_02: Apparently the streets are very quiet right now.
46:26
SPEAKER_02: Right.
46:27
SPEAKER_03: Although there's also we'll get to it.
46:28
SPEAKER_03: There's also supposed pro Maduro demonstrations.
46:30
So shot dead in broad daylight by Colectivo and left by the
46:33
side of the road in 2014.
46:35
And she just noted this is not an unusual thing to happen,
46:39
have happened under Maduro.
46:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:41
And I think that's one thing worth sort of pausing on for a
46:44
moment is that these
46:45
SPEAKER_02: government supporting paramilitary groups,
46:47
SPEAKER_02: Maduro allies are still.
46:49
still in power there it's not like he was extradited to the u.s
46:53
i mean his
46:53
government is still in power and it's a question of like what
46:57
um what kind of
46:58
leverage we will exert over the vp who's now she's she said
47:02
he's still the
47:03
president so it's not it's not as though the regime has been
47:05
toppled by any means
47:06
no one knows what's going to happen um and to be clear uh
47:09
jessica ladies baby said
47:10
SPEAKER_03: her friends are well aware of that
47:12
SPEAKER_03: Now,
47:13
the reason we bring this up is just because there is this thing
47:15
online where it's
47:16
SPEAKER_03: like,
47:17
SPEAKER_03: if you mentioned that this place has been a hellhole for a while,
47:21
SPEAKER_03: like a really a horrible place to live,
47:23
SPEAKER_03: that's seen as endorsing what the U.S.
47:26
SPEAKER_03: does.
47:26
SPEAKER_03: So this has led to some of the online bullshit.
47:28
SPEAKER_03: Katie, should we get into it?
47:29
SPEAKER_03: Yes, let's get into it.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: Or, I mean, we could keep pontificating about global politics.
47:33
SPEAKER_03: Here's what I think about the U.S.
47:35
SPEAKER_03: policy towards Central and South America.
47:37
SPEAKER_02: Hey, can I actually, can I just bring up one thing?
47:40
SPEAKER_02: Just do it.
47:41
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
47:42
SPEAKER_02: This is just something that's been, it's been bothering me.
47:44
SPEAKER_02: So when Trump started bombing these boats,
47:50
SPEAKER_02: Fishing vessels slash possibly narco traffickers.
47:54
SPEAKER_02: The justification for this was fentanyl in the US.
47:59
SPEAKER_02: Jesse, do you know where fentanyl comes from?
48:00
SPEAKER_03: Every one of those boats carries all the fentanyl.
48:02
SPEAKER_03: That's why he's destroying them.
48:04
SPEAKER_02: China.
48:04
SPEAKER_02: Fentanyl is not made in Venezuela.
48:07
SPEAKER_02: The materials to make fentanyl go to Mexico.
48:11
It is synthesized in Mexico and then it comes up through Mexico
48:14
or possibly,
48:15
SPEAKER_02: I don't know,
48:15
SPEAKER_02: maybe through boats or tunnels.
48:16
SPEAKER_03: Are you... So are you...
48:19
SPEAKER_03: Let me make sure I have this right.
48:20
You're saying Donald Trump,
48:22
like this policy of killing people on boats might not be good.
48:26
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm I don't think it's good.
48:28
SPEAKER_02: But as a pretext, it is just false.
48:33
Like tens of thousands of people are not dying every year
48:38
because of Venezuelan drugs.
48:40
SPEAKER_02: Colombia manufactures cocaine.
48:45
SPEAKER_02: There is a pipeline from Colombia to Venezuela to the U.S.
48:48
SPEAKER_02: That is absolutely true.
48:49
SPEAKER_02: And from what I've seen from legitimate reporters,
48:52
SPEAKER_02: it seems likely that yes,
48:54
SPEAKER_02: Maduro was involved in the drug trade.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: But we're talking about cocaine.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: We're not talking about fentanyl.
48:59
SPEAKER_02: People do die from cocaine overdoses,
49:01
SPEAKER_02: but the vast majority of overdoses in the U.S.,
49:04
SPEAKER_02: deadly overdoses come from fentanyl.
49:06
SPEAKER_02: And when there are cocaine overdoses in which people die,
49:10
SPEAKER_02: typically there's also some sort of opioid like fentanyl involved.
49:14
SPEAKER_02: A straight overdose death from cocaine...
49:18
SPEAKER_02: It does happen,
49:18
but this is rare compared to the actual deadly drug that is
49:21
killing Americans with
49:22
SPEAKER_02: his fentanyl.
49:23
SPEAKER_02: What's more, fentanyl deaths have slowed down in the U.S.
49:29
Keith Humphries,
49:30
friend of the pod,
49:31
he just released a study looking at why this might be.
49:34
SPEAKER_02: Keith Humphries is at Stanford.
49:36
SPEAKER_02: He's a really good guy on public policy.
49:38
SPEAKER_02: He's also really helpful with my book.
49:40
SPEAKER_03: I'm looking forward to seeing him when I'm out there.
49:41
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
49:42
SPEAKER_02: So Keith did this study,
49:42
and what they found was that the reason that fentanyl deaths
49:45
are down in the U.S.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: is because the Biden administration,
49:48
negotiated with China to crack down on shipments of the
49:52
materials that make fentanyl to Mexico.
49:54
SPEAKER_02: At the same time, so this is the pretext, right?
49:57
SPEAKER_02: Drug deaths, American drug deaths.
49:59
At the same time that Trump was killing possibly drug
50:04
traffickers without any trial
50:06
SPEAKER_02: or possibly fucking fishermen,
50:08
SPEAKER_02: at the same time,
50:09
SPEAKER_02: Trump pardoned the former Honduran president,
50:12
SPEAKER_02: whose name was Juan Orlando Hernandez,
50:14
SPEAKER_02: and
50:15
He was recently sentenced to 45 years in an American prison for
50:19
drug trafficking.
50:21
SPEAKER_02: Trump fucking pardoned him.
50:23
SPEAKER_02: And he's now hiding out somewhere in the US.
50:26
So I doubt there's anyone right now who is under the impression
50:28
that this has
50:29
SPEAKER_02: anything to do with drugs.
50:29
But just in case there is that one person,
50:31
let me clear up that misinformation for you.
50:33
SPEAKER_02: Nothing to do with fentanyl.
50:34
SPEAKER_02: There's no fucking fentanyl in Venezuela.
50:37
Americans are not dying because of fentanyl shipped on fucking
50:40
boats from Venezuela.
50:40
SPEAKER_02: It's not happening.
50:41
SPEAKER_02: Okay, Jesse, you want to get back to it?
50:44
SPEAKER_03: The only thing I'd add is like it is interesting.
50:46
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
50:47
My sense is like smart people have never thought you could like
50:50
arrest or bomb your
50:51
SPEAKER_03: way out of a problem like fentanyl addiction.
50:53
SPEAKER_03: But taking this really complicated,
50:56
deadly public policy problem and then filtering it through
50:59
Trump's monkey brain and
51:01
SPEAKER_03: he has access to a military and is totally unconstrained.
51:04
SPEAKER_03: That's that's how you get it.
51:06
bombing boats uh okay that was our little detour i know we're
51:10
seen as the leaders
51:11
of the resistance um people get so mad when we like whatever go
51:16
ahead no i mean i
51:17
the sorry we could like it's hard because i every day there's
51:21
like another thing
51:21
that i'm just like it's it's completely insane i don't it's
51:25
insane i don't think my
51:26
writing or my podcasting like i don't think i'm at my best when
51:29
i'm getting mad
51:29
about trump but there were so many levels deep to insanity but
51:33
there are like a
51:36
SPEAKER_03: I can't believe they literally just started bombing the boats.
51:38
SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
51:39
SPEAKER_03: I don't think there's a huge moral distinction.
51:41
SPEAKER_03: I really don't.
51:41
Between killing someone who's a fisherman without a trial and
51:44
killing someone who
51:45
SPEAKER_03: you claim is a drug trafficker without a trial.
51:46
SPEAKER_03: It's crazy.
51:47
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, back to the online bullshit.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: And yes, we know Obama drone people, too.
51:51
SPEAKER_02: Also, Bob.
51:52
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's like...
51:54
SPEAKER_03: There was a lot of outrage about that.
51:57
SPEAKER_03: There were big New York Times investigations about his... I mean... Okay.
52:03
SPEAKER_03: Back to the internet.
52:05
SPEAKER_03: Jessica pointed out this... That's Jessica in the 80s, baby.
52:07
Pointed out this really interesting thing where a lot of
52:10
members of the diaspora
52:12
SPEAKER_03: will post their feelings about this.
52:14
SPEAKER_03: About Maduro getting got in this sense.
52:17
SPEAKER_03: And...
52:19
It's just happy that this horrible guy who really they felt was
52:24
torturing them and
52:24
SPEAKER_03: their families is gone.
52:27
SPEAKER_03: So read this tweet that she said sums up the situation nicely.
52:31
SPEAKER_02: 27 years we have nothing to lose that we haven't lost already.
52:34
SPEAKER_02: Yes,
52:34
it's not going to be a movie-esque happy ending where
52:36
everything gets fixed
52:37
SPEAKER_02: overnight with a montage and a catchy song.
52:39
SPEAKER_02: But I reiterate, it's been 27 years, got to start somewhere.
52:43
SPEAKER_02: And that's somewhere right now is Maduro getting BTFO.
52:46
SPEAKER_02: That's BTFO.
52:47
SPEAKER_02: What's...
52:49
SPEAKER_02: something the fuck out?
52:50
SPEAKER_02: Blowing the fuck out.
52:51
SPEAKER_02: Back the fuck off.
52:52
SPEAKER_02: But I thought it was beat the fuck out.
52:55
SPEAKER_02: Bend the fuck over?
52:55
SPEAKER_03: God, this is so pathetic.
52:57
SPEAKER_02: This is what Chris Rufo thinks is a violent threat.
53:01
SPEAKER_02: Again, analyze the situation from your personal perspective.
53:04
SPEAKER_02: Insight,
53:04
SPEAKER_02: an overarching view of how things should be in the world slash friend,
53:08
SPEAKER_02: enemy,
53:08
SPEAKER_02: distinction,
53:09
SPEAKER_02: etc.
53:09
SPEAKER_02: And you're free to do so.
53:10
SPEAKER_02: But keep in mind that maybe,
53:11
SPEAKER_02: just maybe,
53:11
there are 20-something million Venezuelans that just wanted to
53:14
see this fat fuck
53:15
SPEAKER_02: eat shit.
53:15
SPEAKER_02: That's all.
53:16
SPEAKER_03: So this comes from an account that goes by Caleb Prime.
53:19
SPEAKER_03: Apparently, his real name is Caleb.
53:20
SPEAKER_03: He posted this,
53:21
SPEAKER_03: and that was what you just read was part of a long,
53:23
SPEAKER_03: thoughtful reflection on this topic.
53:25
SPEAKER_03: Immediately,
53:26
SPEAKER_03: he gets shit on by people saying things like,
53:28
SPEAKER_03: quote-unquote,
53:29
SPEAKER_03: we,
53:29
SPEAKER_03: with a little carrot pointing to Italian,
53:31
SPEAKER_03: being like,
53:32
SPEAKER_03: this guy's Italian.
53:33
SPEAKER_03: He's not Venezuelan.
53:34
SPEAKER_03: So this guy, Caleb, he actually responds by posting his two ID cards.
53:38
SPEAKER_03: One is Italian.
53:39
SPEAKER_03: The other is Venezuelan.
53:40
SPEAKER_03: So what's happening here is there is this big diaspora.
53:43
There's people who had to flee the country and they're chiming
53:46
in about it.
53:46
SPEAKER_03: And people would be like, no, you're not a real Venezuelan.
53:48
SPEAKER_03: There's all these claims of sort of ass return.
53:51
SPEAKER_02: Other people who aren't Venezuelans saying you're not a Venezuelan.
53:54
SPEAKER_03: Right.
53:55
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
53:56
SPEAKER_03: So Jessica said that a lot.
53:58
SPEAKER_03: And again,
53:59
SPEAKER_03: I keep referring to her because she can actually,
54:01
SPEAKER_03: well,
54:01
SPEAKER_03: I guess in this day and age,
54:02
SPEAKER_03: we can all read Spanish tweets through the auto,
54:04
SPEAKER_03: shitty auto translate,
54:05
SPEAKER_03: but she can actually read Spanish tweets.
54:06
SPEAKER_03: You speak Spanish, don't you?
54:07
SPEAKER_03: Un poquito de español.
54:09
Jessica said that a lot of online lefties are going crazy with
54:13
Twitter's where is
54:14
SPEAKER_03: he posting from feature.
54:15
SPEAKER_03: So anyone who identifies themselves as Venezuelan,
54:18
SPEAKER_03: they'll often immediately get attacked for not being in Venezuela.
54:22
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
54:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:23
SPEAKER_02: So this is for people who aren't on Twitter.
54:25
SPEAKER_02: This is a new feature.
54:26
I think this is actually one of the rare good things that Elon
54:28
has done just
54:28
SPEAKER_02: because it's kind of interesting.
54:29
SPEAKER_02: So you can now see where people are posting from.
54:32
And or they'll get accused of using a VPN and like trying to
54:35
hide who they are.
54:36
SPEAKER_03: But part of the problem is Twitter is actually illegal in Venezuela.
54:39
SPEAKER_03: So if you're in Venezuela.
54:41
SPEAKER_02: So I thought Venezuela was bad.
54:42
SPEAKER_02: You're making it sound kind of nice.
54:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:44
SPEAKER_03: I want to move to Venezuela now.
54:46
SPEAKER_03: So anyone who's actually in the country would need to use a VPN anyway,
54:49
SPEAKER_03: which creates this weird situation.
54:50
You're not there using VPN when maybe,
54:53
but it also could be you are there.
54:55
SPEAKER_03: That's why you have to use a VPN.
54:57
SPEAKER_03: So Katie, let's read this telling exchange.
55:00
I'll be the Spanish speaker so I can take advantage of my
55:02
incredible accent and you
55:03
SPEAKER_03: be this person who responded.
55:05
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
55:11
That means basically I can't even bring myself to cry because I
55:13
can't believe this
55:14
SPEAKER_03: is actually happening.
55:15
SPEAKER_03: You be Chris.
55:16
SPEAKER_02: Sorry for the loss of your leader.
55:17
SPEAKER_02: This is a very terrible day for Venezuela.
55:20
SPEAKER_03: Matate.
55:21
SPEAKER_02: What's that mean?
55:21
SPEAKER_03: That's what Chris says.
55:22
SPEAKER_03: What does that mean?
55:23
SPEAKER_02: I'm also asking.
55:24
SPEAKER_03: It means kill yourself.
55:27
SPEAKER_03: Which we are not in favor of,
55:29
SPEAKER_03: but Venezuela and a person who says there's Venezuela and say,
55:32
SPEAKER_03: I can't believe this is happening.
55:34
SPEAKER_03: I can't believe it's real,
55:35
which is the kind of thing millions of Venezuelans around the
55:38
world are saying.
55:38
SPEAKER_03: Right.
55:39
SPEAKER_03: Guys saying, I'm so sorry you lost your leader.
55:42
SPEAKER_03: So attempts.
55:44
SPEAKER_03: I'm curious about Blue Sky.
55:45
SPEAKER_03: I did not.
55:46
SPEAKER_03: I did not.
55:47
SPEAKER_03: I can't even imagine.
55:48
SPEAKER_03: You can't even open it.
55:49
SPEAKER_03: I'm not even going there.
55:50
SPEAKER_03: Also, Blue Sky is so small.
55:51
SPEAKER_03: Why would we give it any attention?
55:52
SPEAKER_03: It's like a tiny fraction of the size of X.
55:55
So attempts by Venezuelans to get people to hashtag believe
55:59
Venezuelans are not
56:00
SPEAKER_03: working.
56:02
SPEAKER_03: I'll read here.
56:03
SPEAKER_03: Let me read another thing.
56:04
SPEAKER_03: This is from someone who says there's Venezuelan.
56:06
SPEAKER_03: If you are not Venezuelan or have never lived in Venezuela,
56:08
SPEAKER_03: maybe instead of posting as if you're an expert on Venezuela,
56:12
SPEAKER_03: you should listen to actual Venezuelans.
56:13
SPEAKER_03: Sincerely, a Venezuelan.
56:15
SPEAKER_03: Katie, read the two replies.
56:17
Sincerely,
56:18
shut the fuck up from an Iraqi that has seen this shit before.
56:21
SPEAKER_03: Next one.
56:22
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate this so much.
56:23
SPEAKER_02: We need more people from the Middle East to call out these U.S.
56:25
SPEAKER_02: bootlickers.
56:26
SPEAKER_03: So that's the problem here is anyone who expresses happiness that Maduro,
56:30
SPEAKER_03: who was a horrible,
56:32
SPEAKER_03: evil dictator,
56:33
SPEAKER_03: that he is gone.
56:34
SPEAKER_03: They're a bootlicker.
56:36
SPEAKER_03: So people are really struggling with the idea of this large diaspora.
56:40
SPEAKER_03: There was a video shared of Venice.
56:42
SPEAKER_02: What are the chances that that person is actually Iraqi?
56:45
SPEAKER_03: I mean, again, nothing's real and nothing matters.
56:48
SPEAKER_03: So we can't say anything for sure.
56:50
SPEAKER_02: Or that person is Venezuelan or any of this exists.
56:52
SPEAKER_03: Well, right.
56:53
SPEAKER_03: Nothing exists anymore.
56:54
SPEAKER_03: That's true.
56:54
But people are very selective in terms of determining what they
56:58
think is real versus fake.
56:59
So we'll include a link to a video being shared of Venezuelans
57:02
celebrating in Buenos Aires.
57:04
And people are using the fact that it comes from BA as a gotcha
57:08
to suggest they're
57:09
SPEAKER_03: not really Venezuelans.
57:11
SPEAKER_03: But there are over 200,000 Venezuelans living in Argentina and
57:15
SPEAKER_03: And there could be a lot more.
57:16
Jessica Nades maybe points out members of the diaspora are
57:19
often undocumented.
57:20
SPEAKER_03: On the other hand, there have been these demonstrations against U.S.
57:23
SPEAKER_03: action in Venezuela, including members of the opposition.
57:29
It's just hard to know what's what because Venezuela is a
57:31
totalitarian state.
57:32
SPEAKER_03: People are paid to protest, like paid protesters in common line.
57:36
SPEAKER_03: They're paid to protest.
57:37
SPEAKER_03: They might be intimidated into it with the colectivos.
57:40
SPEAKER_03: This is a well-established paramilitary thing.
57:42
But there's this tendency of otherwise smart people to turn off
57:45
their brain.
57:46
SPEAKER_03: So Katie,
57:47
SPEAKER_03: hate to make you do this,
57:48
SPEAKER_03: but read this tweet from a friend of the podcast,
57:50
SPEAKER_03: Glenn Greenwald.
57:51
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so he's quote tweeting an account called Pamphlets.
57:56
SPEAKER_02: And that account says,
58:02
SPEAKER_02: And then Glenn says,
58:02
now that the mega viral videos spread by Trump influencers were
58:05
exposed as frauds
58:06
SPEAKER_02: and we see the real videos of Venezuelans in that country demanding their
58:09
SPEAKER_02: sovereignty,
58:10
SPEAKER_02: MAGA will return to,
58:12
Venezuelans are dirty third world pygmies who don't share our
58:15
values or culture.
58:16
SPEAKER_02: Who cares what they think?
58:17
So this idea that that the mega viral videos of Venezuela and
58:21
celebrating were
58:21
SPEAKER_03: spread by Trump influencers.
58:23
SPEAKER_03: I mean, first of all, yeah, I'm sure sometimes they were.
58:26
There were some Glenn pointed out some that were it wasn't like
58:30
AI footage,
58:30
but it was like it was like people celebrating from a different
58:33
place in a
58:34
SPEAKER_02: different country because like their soccer team won.
58:37
SPEAKER_03: I'm positive there was that usual bullshit.
58:40
I'm also positive it should surprise nobody that there was
58:43
widespread celebration of this guy.
58:45
SPEAKER_03: It's not...
58:49
It would be shocking if people weren't celebrating his arrest
58:52
because he lost the election.
58:53
SPEAKER_03: He held on to power.
58:54
SPEAKER_03: There's millions of members of the diaspora who hate him.
58:57
SPEAKER_03: So I just I think what Glenn's doing here is like,
59:00
SPEAKER_03: unfortunately,
59:00
SPEAKER_03: the example of people being really selective in what they believe.
59:03
SPEAKER_03: So he's saying this like clip of a protest in a totalitarian country.
59:08
SPEAKER_03: That's real.
59:09
SPEAKER_03: But all the other stuff is somehow fake or astroturfed.
59:12
SPEAKER_03: Also,
59:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm curious about Glenn's,
59:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
59:16
SPEAKER_02: is his default just like anything that's like American imperialism,
59:20
SPEAKER_02: which,
59:21
SPEAKER_02: you know,
59:22
SPEAKER_02: Trump handing over the gas supply to the American petroleum companies,
59:30
SPEAKER_02: I would say that fits the definition.
59:32
SPEAKER_03: Well, right.
59:32
SPEAKER_03: And with Trump, you always need to like take it.
59:35
SPEAKER_03: Like he hasn't actually done that.
59:36
SPEAKER_03: He has openly said we're going to do that, which is the definition.
59:39
SPEAKER_02: Right.
59:40
SPEAKER_02: I should say,
59:40
I do sort of appreciate that he has dropped the pretext that
59:43
this had anything to
59:44
SPEAKER_02: do with drugs.
59:45
SPEAKER_02: We're back in the 90s.
59:47
SPEAKER_02: It's just about petroleum.
59:48
SPEAKER_02: It's just about fossil fuels.
59:49
SPEAKER_02: Although, George Bush, he was never that honest.
59:52
SPEAKER_02: He never said this is about oil.
59:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't think that was about oil.
59:56
SPEAKER_03: I actually don't.
59:57
SPEAKER_03: I don't.
59:58
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's a whole other thing.
59:59
SPEAKER_02: Next week.
59:59
SPEAKER_02: Next week we'll decide if the Iraq War was about oil.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_03: The Iraq War.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_03: I think what Glenn's doing is like a natural human thing,
1:00:07
SPEAKER_03: which is,
1:00:08
SPEAKER_03: yes,
1:00:08
SPEAKER_03: he's incredibly opposed to U.S.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_03: imperialism, especially in that part of the world.
1:00:11
SPEAKER_03: Like he's a Brazilian.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_03: Is he actually Brazilian now by citizenship?
1:00:15
SPEAKER_03: He has citizenship, I believe.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's a Brazilian lefty.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_02: And his husband was a congressman in Brazil.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_03: So it's just like,
1:00:23
SPEAKER_03: yes,
1:00:23
SPEAKER_03: you could be against this particular act,
1:00:26
SPEAKER_03: but to then extend that to,
1:00:28
SPEAKER_03: I can't imagine how other people might be celebrating this,
1:00:31
SPEAKER_03: I just think is like sort of a failure of moral imagination,
1:00:35
SPEAKER_03: frankly.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_03: So...
1:00:37
There's also this tweet from the – I had this person that
1:00:40
hadn't come up for a while.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_03: Kim.com,
1:00:44
SPEAKER_03: influencer,
1:00:44
SPEAKER_03: political influencer,
1:00:45
SPEAKER_03: sort of like hacker type,
1:00:47
SPEAKER_03: sort of old school,
1:00:48
SPEAKER_03: older school internet.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_03: But read this tweet from Kim.com.
1:00:52
Warning,
1:00:52
90% of Trump's support regarding Venezuela on social media is
1:00:56
not organic.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_02: It's bot generated.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_02: Same CIA playbook as Ukraine.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_02: Don't be fooled.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_02: The vast majority is against what Trump did in Venezuela.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_02: The fact that they need bots to fake support shows how weak Trump is.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_03: Again, it's delusional, I think.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_03: There was also this really bad tweet from Martina Velarde.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_03: She's a national...
1:01:14
SPEAKER_03: She's a congresswoman from Podemos, Spain's far-left party.
1:01:17
They've always been very pro-immigration and welcoming of
1:01:20
refugees fleeing various
1:01:21
SPEAKER_03: regimes,
1:01:22
SPEAKER_03: including Venezuela.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_03: So she, quote, retweeted an image of Venezuelans celebrating in Madrid.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_03: Katie,
1:01:28
SPEAKER_03: read what she said in her,
1:01:30
SPEAKER_03: quote,
1:01:30
retweet in response to these Venezuelans celebrating in your
1:01:34
best Spanish-Spanish
1:01:35
SPEAKER_03: accent.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_02: Paracitos.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_02: Paracitos.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_02: That was pretty good, huh?
1:01:38
SPEAKER_03: Parasitos.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_02: I think I know what that means.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_03: Parasitos.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_03: She's calling them parasites.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_03: So her tweet disappeared.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_03: Angry Venezuelans assumed she deleted it.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_03: But no, she doubled down.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_03: She said, I didn't delete it.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_03: People reported it.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_03: You're morons.
1:01:54
Nice to see that it's not just American politicians who call
1:01:57
people morons on Twitter.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_03: No.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:02:00
And then she said anyone who celebrates the bombing of their
1:02:02
country and the
1:02:03
SPEAKER_03: killing of their countrymen is a parasite.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_03: Part of what makes that complicated is it's bad when people die,
1:02:10
SPEAKER_03: but a few dozen people died and they were Cubans because...
1:02:14
The Maduro regime relies on a lot of imported Cubans for things
1:02:18
like security.
1:02:19
According to Jessica Nady's baby,
1:02:21
that's why it was Cubans who were killed.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_03: Again, killing is bad, but anyway.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_03: In Spain and in the U.S.,
1:02:26
there's been videos of clashes between actual Venezuelans and
1:02:29
non-Venezuelan
1:02:31
SPEAKER_03: activists against U.S.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_03: action.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_03: It's this weird, we talked about intersectional twister before.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:02:39
And the way people handle the cognitive dissonance of like,
1:02:42
I am for Venezuela.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_03: I want to protect Venezuelans.
1:02:45
All the Venezuelans disagree with me about this is they use
1:02:48
terms like facha pobre.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_03: That's a portmanteau of fascist and poor.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_03: So you're a poor fascist, which is the worst kind of fascist to be.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_03: They also use gasano.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_03: This was a word when I went to Cuba and was reading up a little bit.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_03: It's like...
1:03:03
SPEAKER_03: If you... Gasano means worm.
1:03:05
So if you leave Cuba for a better life,
1:03:07
the way...
1:03:09
The idea is you're a worm.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_03: You're sort of a traitor to the revolution.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_03: So it's always... It's been used to refer to counter-revolutionaries.
1:03:15
But more and more,
1:03:16
it's just used for like anyone who leaves is inherently morally
1:03:20
suspect.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_03: So...
1:03:22
SPEAKER_03: The myth of the Cassano in this case,
1:03:25
SPEAKER_03: in the Venezuelan case,
1:03:25
is that they are white people and they descended from slave
1:03:29
owners and they hate
1:03:31
SPEAKER_03: the fact that they lost power.
1:03:32
But the happy brown communists stayed behind living in peace
1:03:36
and harmony in the Maduro regime.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_03: If you want to read this tweet from Jimmy Pooptron, this explains it.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_02: This is in quotes.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_02: You think you know better than Venezuelans?
1:03:47
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I do.
1:03:47
Guisanos living abroad are brain-dead fascists who want to sell
1:03:50
their country out
1:03:51
SPEAKER_02: for cheap consumer experiences for the donors of a senile pedophile,
1:03:55
SPEAKER_02: all because their grandparents' plantations were forcefully expropriated.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_03: So cheap consumer experiences includes things like eggs and milk.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:05
This is like this really – there's this really remarkable race
1:04:08
craft going on too
1:04:09
SPEAKER_03: because Venezuelan is like a very diverse,
1:04:12
SPEAKER_03: very mixed place.
1:04:13
And to some of the folks who – the way they handle the
1:04:17
cognitive dissonance of all
1:04:18
SPEAKER_03: these Venezuelans celebrating is they say,
1:04:20
SPEAKER_03: well,
1:04:20
SPEAKER_03: those are the white ones.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_03: The non-white ones are down with the cause.
1:04:23
Although,
1:04:24
hey,
1:04:24
the white one in Seattle,
1:04:25
that one was trying to get Maduro out.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:04:29
SPEAKER_03: So, right.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_03: As usual,
1:04:31
a lot of online debates about race are entirely white people
1:04:34
fighting with white
1:04:34
SPEAKER_03: people.
1:04:35
But watch just the start of this video and let's embed this
1:04:37
because I think this
1:04:37
SPEAKER_03: really sums it up.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_03: Guy really appears to be a major league asshole who goes by Don Salmon.
1:04:42
Notice the Venezuelans celebrating the kidnapping of Maduro are
1:04:46
white and outside of Venezuela.
1:04:49
Notice how the Venezuelans who are supporting Maduro and the
1:04:51
Bolivarian Revolution are black.
1:04:54
SPEAKER_00: Brown, indigenous and inside of Venezuela.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_00: And that's no coincidence.
1:05:00
Many of the asylum seekers and immigrants that come to America
1:05:04
from Latin America
1:05:05
SPEAKER_00: are right wing reactionaries.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_00: And they're not good actors.
1:05:10
And oftentimes we don't ever ask the question of what these
1:05:15
immigrants were doing
1:05:16
SPEAKER_00: before they arrived in America in their home countries.
1:05:19
This is especially the case when we're talking about Colombia,
1:05:22
Venezuela,
1:05:24
Nicaragua,
1:05:25
and Cuba.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:05:26
I think that it's a really good idea to base what you know on a
1:05:29
country on videos
1:05:30
SPEAKER_02: that you're seeing go viral on TikTok.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_03: It's these wildly differing standards for evidence,
1:05:36
SPEAKER_03: depending on the last video you saw and how it made you feel.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_03: If it made you feel bad, it's AI or it's the CIA.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, this is not the first time I've come across this.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_03: This is this real point among radical chic,
1:05:48
SPEAKER_03: mostly – I'm overgeneralizing a little,
1:05:50
SPEAKER_03: but mostly more privileged types.
1:05:52
They need some way to grapple cognitively with the fact that
1:05:56
these regimes,
1:05:57
they –
1:05:58
SPEAKER_03: valorize Cuba and Venezuela,
1:06:01
people are fleeing by the millions from these countries because
1:06:03
they're really
1:06:03
SPEAKER_03: rough places to live.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_03: And the way they do that is the Guisano line.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_03: These must be bad people.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_03: They were slave owners.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_03: They were this.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_03: They were that.
1:06:11
So it's just it's amazing what this sort of radicalism does to
1:06:15
people and how it
1:06:15
SPEAKER_03: makes them,
1:06:16
SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
1:06:17
SPEAKER_03: not inhumane,
1:06:18
SPEAKER_03: I guess I'd say.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_02: All right, well, let's take this seriously for a second.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
1:06:20
is there anything to the idea that the diaspora is wider than
1:06:24
the people who
1:06:24
SPEAKER_02: remained in Venezuela?
1:06:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
1:06:26
Jessica said like there's some element of truth to like some of
1:06:30
the migration
1:06:31
SPEAKER_03: patterns,
1:06:31
SPEAKER_03: but a lot of that just comes down to who has what options.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_03: So oil was discovered in Venezuela in 1935.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_03: That was a time.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_03: And again, I'm educating you here.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_03: There was actually some bad stuff going on in Europe in 1935.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_03: You can Google that when you have time.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_03: So for the better part of actually 30 years,
1:06:49
SPEAKER_03: there were waves of migration,
1:06:50
SPEAKER_03: especially from dictatorships like Spain,
1:06:53
SPEAKER_03: Italy,
1:06:53
SPEAKER_03: and Portugal.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_03: So a lot of,
1:06:56
SPEAKER_03: you know,
1:06:56
quote-unquote white Europeans fled from fascists to Venezuela
1:07:01
at the time.
1:07:01
SPEAKER_03: And now their children and grandchildren,
1:07:03
SPEAKER_03: they can often qualify for Spanish,
1:07:05
SPEAKER_03: Italian,
1:07:06
SPEAKER_03: or Portuguese passports.
1:07:08
And if you come from a country like Venezuela,
1:07:10
an EU passport,
1:07:13
it's a golden ticket.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_03: It can literally...
1:07:15
SPEAKER_03: be lifesaving.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_03: So if you were Venezuelan with an EU passport,
1:07:18
they were among the first to leave and they happened to be from
1:07:21
those backgrounds.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_03: But it's really,
1:07:22
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
1:07:23
part of what's interesting about this is the black and brown
1:07:26
people in Venezuela,
1:07:28
SPEAKER_03: by all accounts,
1:07:28
SPEAKER_03: are fucked and would leave if they could.
1:07:31
So this is actually an example of a certain weird type of white
1:07:35
privilege in that
1:07:36
SPEAKER_03: basically everyone wants to leave.
1:07:37
The people who were able to leave,
1:07:40
it was because of their ethnic ancestry.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_02: So this is one case where whiteness isn't just a proxy for wealth.
1:07:50
SPEAKER_02: It's literally because they have European ancestry.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:07:54
And to make this idea that the black and brown people support
1:08:00
the regime and the
1:08:01
SPEAKER_03: white people don't,
1:08:02
SPEAKER_03: it's sort of ridiculous.
1:08:03
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:08:03
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:08:04
SPEAKER_03: One last very peculiar bit of online bullshit involving Venezuela.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_03: So this concerns the president of Colombia, Gustavo Petra.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_03: He's a leftist, not a blue haired pronouns and biotype.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_03: He was actually an armed gorilla in his youth like you were, I believe.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_03: So Colombia is the front line of the Venezuelan refugee crisis.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_03: Three million Venezuelans have fled to Colombia.
1:08:31
SPEAKER_03: Petro has actually been speaking out against Trump's actions recently.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_03: When the first reports came out of potential military action of the U.S.
1:08:40
bombing Caracas,
1:08:41
Petro was live tweeting it all with the information he could
1:08:44
gather.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_03: And
1:08:47
SPEAKER_03: Early news articles used him as a major source.
1:08:51
And what's interesting is that he shared a tweet in the early
1:08:54
hours of Saturday
1:08:55
SPEAKER_03: morning,
1:08:56
SPEAKER_03: a list of allegedly confirmed attacks in Caracas.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_03: But the list was in the form of a screenshot.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_03: So Katie, read the top of this screenshot.
1:09:04
SPEAKER_02: So the name of the WhatsApp group is Valorant Team.
1:09:07
SPEAKER_02: What's Valorant?
1:09:09
SPEAKER_03: You know what Valorant is, right?
1:09:11
SPEAKER_02: No.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_03: It's a video game.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_03: It's an extremely popular video game.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_02: So is that just the name of his group chat?
1:09:19
SPEAKER_02: Like me calling my family group chat squad?
1:09:21
SPEAKER_02: Or is this an actual video gaming group chat?
1:09:23
SPEAKER_03: It's an actual video gaming group chat, apparently.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_03: He was getting his intelligence from a gamer group chat.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_03: To make matters worse,
1:09:32
Petro's screenshot included the totally uncensored number of
1:09:36
one of the group chat
1:09:37
SPEAKER_03: members.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_03: Just this random gamer living in Spain.
1:09:41
SPEAKER_03: So just click this screen capture video and just describe it.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_02: Oh,
1:09:45
this is this is a it's screenshots of the guy of the whoever's
1:09:49
number that was
1:09:50
SPEAKER_02: getting looks like dozens,
1:09:52
SPEAKER_02: hundreds,
1:09:53
SPEAKER_02: thousands of text messages on WhatsApp.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_03: Just ping, ping, ping.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:10:00
SPEAKER_03: This is like,
1:10:01
SPEAKER_03: as far as having your number posted publicly,
1:10:03
SPEAKER_03: it sounds like this was fairly benign.
1:10:05
So the messages included,
1:10:06
imagine being doxxed by the president of Columbia.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_03: Good evening.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_03: How's the situation in Venezuela going?
1:10:13
SPEAKER_03: And change your number, bro.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_03: There were dozens of, there were dozens of, oh, sorry.
1:10:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:10:19
SPEAKER_02: So,
1:10:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
1:10:19
this means that American leaders are also not the only fucking
1:10:23
morons who use group
1:10:24
SPEAKER_02: chats to communicate.
1:10:26
There were apparently dozens of people asked to be added to the
1:10:29
group chat.
1:10:30
Many missed calls,
1:10:31
including several from an account whose profile picture was
1:10:33
Jeffrey Epstein.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_03: So yeah,
1:10:34
SPEAKER_03: the owner of the Doc's phone number tweeted,
1:10:36
SPEAKER_03: his account's down now,
1:10:38
SPEAKER_03: but he said,
1:10:38
SPEAKER_03: excuse me,
1:10:39
SPEAKER_03: Mr.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_03: President,
1:10:40
SPEAKER_03: could you at least not Doc's my phone number?
1:10:41
People have been calling me all morning and I'm blocking
1:10:44
numbers nonstop thanks to
1:10:45
SPEAKER_03: your screenshots.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_03: A commenter asked this guy,
1:10:48
SPEAKER_03: did you know that this group chat included the president of of Columbia?
1:10:54
SPEAKER_03: And his response was, yes, we play with him.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_03: But lately, he prefers to play with narcos.
1:10:59
Apparently,
1:11:00
he's also very bad,
1:11:01
bad at Valorant,
1:11:02
although that remains unconfirmed.
1:11:04
I'm generally against making lists,
1:11:05
but we need a list of all the gamer presidents.
1:11:07
SPEAKER_03: We do.
1:11:07
SPEAKER_03: We do.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_02: Did you see what Tucker Carlson said about the kidnapping of Maduro?
1:11:12
SPEAKER_03: I did not.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_03: What was it?
1:11:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh, this was good.
1:11:14
We can safely discount democracy as a reason for affecting
1:11:21
regime change in Venezuela.
1:11:22
We're not going to go kill Nicolas Maduro because we don't like
1:11:25
the way he's
1:11:26
SPEAKER_01: treating his people.
1:11:28
SPEAKER_01: It's possible we're mad that he doesn't allow gay marriage.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_01: That is a distinct possibility, but no one will say that out loud.
1:11:33
SPEAKER_01: Not defending the regime, just saying.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_01: One of the most conservative countries...
1:11:40
SPEAKER_01: in North or South or Central America.
1:11:43
SPEAKER_01: Only El Salvador really comes close, which is much smaller, of course.
1:11:47
SPEAKER_01: And by the way,
1:11:47
the US-backed opposition leader who would take Maduro's place
1:11:52
if he were taken out
1:11:53
SPEAKER_01: is,
1:11:53
SPEAKER_01: of course,
1:11:55
SPEAKER_01: pretty eager to get gay marriage in Venezuela.
1:11:58
So to those of you who thought this whole project was Globo
1:12:00
Homo,
1:12:02
not crazy,
1:12:02
actually.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, this is the last thing I was going to say.
1:12:06
SPEAKER_03: This all has to do with gay marriage.
1:12:07
SPEAKER_03: So Tucker is on point, as always.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_02: Are you looking forward to having a 51st state?
1:12:12
SPEAKER_03: Now that he's on U.S.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_03: soil, I consider him my president.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_02: Try to get an interview.
1:12:16
SPEAKER_03: I have a podcast.
1:12:17
SPEAKER_03: Can I interview Maduro?
1:12:19
SPEAKER_03: That's all I got, Katie.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_02: All right.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for this, Jesse.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_03: This has been Blocked or Imported.
1:12:23
As always,
1:12:23
we are produced with help from Jessica,
1:12:24
the 80s baby,
1:12:25
especially this week.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for listening.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_03: Bye.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_03: Bye.