Latest / IMI Podcasts / #30: "I Want to Help People Realize They Have So Many Choices": Henry Fan on The Mobility Standard

Transcript

#30: "I Want to Help People Realize They Have So Many Choices": Henry Fan on The Mobility Standard · IMI Podcasts

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, it's 7 p.m.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: in Dubai, 3 p.m.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: in Lisbon, 11 a.m.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: in St.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Kitts.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to a new episode of the Mobility Standard, the podcast where we dissect current events, trends, and crucial questions related to investment migration.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Christian Nesheim, editor of IMI, and in this episode, I had the tremendous pleasure of speaking to Henry Fan or Fan Rui, as he's also known.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's the CEO and co-founder of GlobeVisa, the world's biggest investment migration company by client volume, anyway.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, you know, on our podcast, all we talk about is business.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: But whenever I talk to Henry, we always end up chatting about the philosophical and emotional underpinnings of what we do for a living and how we can find happiness in everyday life.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's always a treat talking to Henry.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so this time our topics included, but we're definitely not limited to how Henry got started in investment migration two decades ago and what the Chinese market looked like back then.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: His biggest, stupidest mistake in business, as he calls it, also why he wants Globe Visa to be the Amazon of immigration and what he means by that term.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: What does Henry look for in a local partner and an illustrated story of things gone wrong in such partnerships?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why does Henry consider himself more of an expert on business operations than on immigration?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Why is the main factor motivating Chinese immigration right now a feeling of insecurity?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, what philosophy drives Henry and how does he find happiness in everyday life?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: All of that and a great deal more in today's episode of the Mobility Standard.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: But before we start, I'd like to remind you that if you haven't already signed up for our pro membership, you really should consider it.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: For the pro membership, you'll get your very own profile in IMI where clients can contact you directly, and you'll have full access to our data center, our private briefings, all our reports, and many, many other tools and resources that'll help you make more money and become a better investment migration professional.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I always say better Intel, better pay, better join IMI Pro today.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: With the preambles out of the way, let's get this show on the road.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: That place I met my partner Melvin.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: 2001.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And back 2002.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: 2002.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And back then, obviously, the Chinese market was very different from what it is today.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: I understand it was more limited in let's say the menu of options.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: What was it people were focusing?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Which countries were people focusing back then?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: At the very beginning, the market is all about Canada.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Canadian skilled workers, federal investor category, and Quebec investor.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a market at that time.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: What was special about Canada?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know, a lot of times it's it's quite easier.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, actually, for good workers, you learn some English and you have some you know computer knowledge, you can get a PR easily.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Then for the investors category, you know, it's you know, Canada is a good place.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to you just invest that money, then you can get your uh PR.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: And also for the agencies, uh, I will say other times the commission is quite good.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: So basically that's a business model.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: It had to do with commission structures, I understand.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: But so later on in the Chinese market, let's move into the let's say mid to late 2000s, the Chinese immigration consumer, let's call it, started to discover and and get a taste for other countries as well.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I imagine in the beginning it must have been, you know, moving beyond Canada to also including the United States and maybe uh Australia, New Zealand, etc.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then later on, European programs.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Can you trace an outline for me of sort of the at what time in history did the Chinese market start expanding beyond Canada and the Anglosphere?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think uh we did the Canada until the year kind of 2008, 2008 or 9.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: At that time, can Canada is still very hot, but it kind of that program is closed at that time.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: So most of the agents, including Globo Visa, we are forced to diversify.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: Diversify to Australia, you know, the one 188 programs and uh New Zealand.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: At that time, New Zealand investor is a good program, and uh Singapore.
• 5:32
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: At that time, Singapore investors are quite simple.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Just put the money in the bank, you can get PR quite easily, quite easily.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and Hong Kong investors program.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the expansion sort of into the Asian space.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned Singapore, Hong Kong, and then you know Australia and New Zealand.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: What about Europe?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think then maybe at the beginning of uh 2010, 2012, the EB5, then kind of citizenship, you know, Caribbean Sea citizenship program.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Then I think uh it's around 2015 or 14, that year, the European Golden Visa uh you know, kind of came out.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: You said that a lot of firms were forced to expand to diversify to other countries because some programs closed.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the way the market has historically developed?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: That it wasn't that the firm said, hey, let's find lots of other offers, uh, other countries to offer clients, but instead what happened is that programs closed and they said, Oh, now we have to find other countries to offer our clients.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the typical story?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think uh there are kind of uh two uh two directions.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because uh Canada is a good business, so one direction is you just find the try to another the cash cow project.
• 7:07
  unknown: Right.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like EP5 will then focus on EP5.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: The other direction is the global visa direction.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: So other time I think we just cannot do another how to program only one program, never.
• 7:20
  unknown: Right.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because you just can't control your long-term strategy.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so kind of other time I just uh you know try to diversify the not just focus on one program.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: For me, at least the four program, five program at the same time.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a different uh strategy.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you say four or five programs at least at the same time, but now you've kind of reached an ex after 20 years, of course, you've reached an extreme stage where you are uh incredibly diversified.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think I spoke I spoke to you about this earlier, and I think you you you say you offer something like 300 different solutions for going abroad.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and this is what you refer to as the Amazon model, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain a little bit about this Amazon model?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean by that?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, see see see that, you know, because you know, because of my my my personality, kind of I always you know find some long-term things, kind of you know, my my my life, life business.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: Some some business opportunity I can I can pursue it my my whole life.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of I I just want to do these kind of things.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: But uh you know, in the business immigration world, this program opened, that program closed uh every year, every month.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, just that's uh that's that's something we cannot control.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: We cannot control.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: So so then I then I said then I try to want to do something I can control.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of first we have maybe five programs.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Since I have five programs, why ten programs?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Since I can handle 10 programs, why 100?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Then why is 300?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of it's you know, kind of it's not I made a decision that no, no, no, I make a decision since I can one first time when we reach the number of 100 programs, it's it's quite a challenge.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: You have to you know coordinate a lot of things, you know how to it's uh it's an operation disaster.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: But after two or three years, uh you you can't have wow, that's okay, I can handle that.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh maybe I can handle 300.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Then because you have 300 programs, you you find wow, it's it's it's quite good because you you give the clients a lot of choices, a lot of potential clients, they like us.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: So wow, I want to do Binance Fical Easter because if I ask for advice from the other firms, they may know you know just uh hard sell me some you know eB5, some CBI, some blah blah blah, give me a list.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you talk with the other firms might other firms might push you in a specific direction where they get high commissions, for example.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but but so you're at 300 now, but how many programs are there?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like what is the maximum?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess corollary to that question is you know, I often refer to you to Globe Visa as the world's biggest investment migration firm.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: You've told me that you did 8,000 cases last year.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I wouldn't say that there are 300 investment migration programs out there.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, when you say 300 and when you say 8,000 clients, that must include some things that are not investment-based, right?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it could be work visas, skill-based visas, this type of thing.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: If we're talking strictly about investment-based programs, how many what share of your clients is that?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you talk about that, it's uh I mean maybe the top top seven programs will be kind of uh European golden mesas, like uh no, but I mean if if we talk about your your client group, right?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like what percentage of your client are migrating on the basis of investment?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: 40%.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: 30%.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: 40.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: 40, 40.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so still thousands of people.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so this is the Amazon model.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you call it the Amazon model?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: You mean that you you simply offer everything, or that is the goal, to simply offer every possible entry route into a country?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: There are two meanings for that uh Amazon model.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: One is we will give you know 300 programs or more programs to provide.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: The other is uh we will provide all the services at a very reasonable market price.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that means we will make a we are not greedy at all.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: We we will make a very reasonable uh perfect margin for every program.
• 12:17
  unknown: Right.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Once we, you know, kind of our strategy, once we get a lower cost from the provider, we will just uh you know give give the clients a lower retailing price.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of our yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: And is this hyper competitive cost structure?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Is that one of the would you say that that is reason you've been so successful competitively in China?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't think that's uh it's not it's not that you're the cheaper.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think in actually in China the the reason we are successful is because of the uh compliance people and you see in China a lot of you know that market, a lot of players they are very aggressive, they are very smart, they are very you know hardworking blood things, but they just disappeared one day due to some compliance things.
• 13:08
  unknown: Right.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: China had that kind of problem.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of in Florida Louisa, we're bigger every year, every year, but for the other peers, they just you know, very even 20 years, they are quite big, but they disappeared one day for some reason.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: When when you look at I thought it had to do with deregulation, you know, back in I think it was November 2018.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Before then, you had to have to you had to have a special license for to run uh what you call a chu jing business.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And after November 2018, that was no longer the case, which I thought was strange.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was a bit, it was a bit counterintuitive because immigration is a sensitive subject in China, and the government in some way wants to limit it, but at the same time, it was liberalizing that market by removing regulations, which made it easier to start immigration companies.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And as a result, one of the results we saw was that some of the firms that had been huge in the past had thousands of employees, you would see some of the key employees leave to start their own immigration business.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there was sort of a fragmentation of some of the bigger players.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: But now you're telling me it's also related to, let's say, cowboys who were playing it fast and loose with the rules and compliance.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: Let me see this way.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh compliance is one side, the other side is you know, the bigger your size, the more risk you take.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: So actually, it's it's very, you know, I mean, worldwide, you didn't see you know very big consulting firm, like you know, 500 staff, maybe no.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you reach that size, you have to deal with a lot of you know things.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: You are you know, the staff you have to control and also procedure, legal service, compliance, it makes things quite you know challenge.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's not easy, it's not easy operation.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I think maybe that's a start because if the firm is quite small, you can control everything.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but if the firm is quite big and it's very diversified, the compliance is a big challenge.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's a super big challenge.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe I think that's a story.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: The the bigger you are, you know, the risky.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's something that we've discussed in IMI previously that you know, in many businesses you have economies of scale.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: So in grocery stores, for example, if you're if you have thousands of grocery stores, then you can buy supplies for a lower price, and that makes you more competitive.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: But in the immigration business, especially investment immigration business, maybe scale is not such a big advantage because maybe clients like that boutique feeling, maybe they like to deal with a smaller firm.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And also you have the problem that you know your best employees might leave and start their own company very easily because the barriers to entry in the market are very low.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about that?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: You you you you say that scale in immigration businesses means risk, higher risk.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's difficult to control.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: But still, you are it's not like you own you know 15 medium-sized immigration businesses.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: You've chosen to own one huge immigration business.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I got your question.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: I I I can't I can answer that.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: First thing is uh I think this industry is just like all the other business, it's it's all about operation.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: So of course, the so-called uh scale economy exists in this industry.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I I always call it flywheel effect.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Flywheel.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: Flywheel effect.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: The more clients you get, the good projects you get, then the more clients, blah blah the more referrals.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I call it flywheel effect.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's a virtuous cycle, yeah.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: It it it it exists, it exists in our institution.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: But the the problem is you have to execute everything excellently.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it's all about operation.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I think I told you the story two years ago.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: I met nobody.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: I met no providers, no one knows me, no one met me.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Only global visas know me.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because for 20 years, I just you know study all the kind of operations, all these committees, ERP system, CRM, everything.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, kind of we are data-driven.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I spent 20 years to do the operation.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I I don't think you know, even in some events, no one wants to talk talk about operation science with me.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, talk about fancy things, no one talks about operation science.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: I I kind of I think that's that's that's one thing.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: You have to, the operation is quite important.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: But no one is you're excellent doing that.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: The other story you mentioned, uh maybe people quite easy to left Globisa to start their own firm.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's not the case in Globisa.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because all our clients, they are loyal to Glovisa brand.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: They are not loyal just to one person.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because we are a system, kind of the consultant will send clients, then the program department will provide the services.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And if they send another program, another program manager, program department will provide services.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: So to the client side, it's not just one person, it's Glow Visa's brand.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Then on the other hand, you know, because you know we can talk about any program, like EP5, because our size, we will get we will get the best projects, we will get exclusive contract worldwide.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: So that means even you left Globisa, you don't have this best program.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Even for CBR programs, then our cost is quite low.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of if you left Globe Visa, you you you you you you don't have that personal connection with the clients.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: At the same time, you don't have the best projects available.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: You say at events, you know, people don't want to talk to you about operations, but well, yeah, because they want to talk about immigration.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: But but you run your firm like you said for 20 years you've just been focused on operations.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I've read your you know your your descriptions of of how you structure your firm because as you say, when you have a big firm, it's impossible to control every person, you know, individually, and that creates risk.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: But what you can do is put in place really solid systems where where the structure of the system looks after and prevents any big big mistakes, right?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So so when people come to events and and don't want to talk to you about operations, well, it's because they don't know that you're like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk in the sense that or Jack Welch, right?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're like uh a business guru, more than an immigration guru.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's the funny thing.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: You just mentioned the three names.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: I read all the uh you know books and youtubers.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's the the three person I kind of like very much.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those three.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even Jack Welsh Elon Musk and Jack Wells.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, 20 years I I read Jack Bearish's uh I think that book is called Winnie.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I read it six times 20 years ago.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I read that book too.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe it's right to say that you, more than being an immigration expert, you're actually a business operations expert, first and foremost.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think you can see that way.
• 21:07
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe you know, those skills you could be in any kind of business and they would still apply.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe, but you know, the immigration industry is the only industry I I was ever involved.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I have no idea.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to talk a bit about Globezus internationalization because as we mentioned, you know, if you go back five, six, seven years, there were many huge immigration firms in China that had you know thousands of clients, hundreds of employees, and most of them, you know, I a lot of them broke up with deregulation.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of them, as you said, disappeared because they ran a Foul of regulations.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you've now spent the last 18 years turning GlobeVisa into a global international firm.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to understand, you know, why haven't the other firms internationally uh or sorry, why haven't the other Chinese immigration firms been able to take that step?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I guess Delsk maybe is doing something similar, but by and large, the big immigration firms in China kind of stayed in China.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's easy money.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, kind of China market is a bigger market and it's all the same.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: From the north to the south, it's all the same.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: We speak the same language, we read the same newspaper, it's it's quite you know the same.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it's the best market ever.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, maybe that's a reason.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's easy money.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Why why bother to other countries?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: But but it's also very, very competitive, right?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe one reason to internationalize would be to go to a place where the competitive pressure is lower.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean say, you know, kind of in in in China, the big players are all Chinese firms.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, you know, the other international players.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: That means, you know, it's not just the China market, is you know, competition is quite a you know challenge because the Chin China's culture is unique.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's quite unique, a different uh philosophy.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it's quite a challenge.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's the same thing.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: As a Chinese, it's you know, entering the other market is is quite a challenge.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's it's a double-edged story.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember you know, back in 2015 when I was working in investment migration in China, the international investment migration firms almost invariably chose to partner B2B with the big local immigration firms rather than market directly to the Chinese investors.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I remember there were powerful Chinese immigration industry associations that expressly told international firms that you you know that we were not permitted to take quote unquote their customers, by which they meant the Chinese people.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Especially as a at the year, at that year, the license, you know, the special license.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's a quite uh yeah challenge for foreign companies.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I remember uh Larry Wang of uh Xheung.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: He he told me Larry Wang, yeah.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: He was tough on that.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: He said any international firms that get caught you know trying to target the Chinese consumers directly would be punished, he said.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: He used that word.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't know that.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, no, I never presented any Chinese event, never until today.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: I never present any event, yeah.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, Larry Wang was more active there in that sense.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: But but so since 2018, or maybe since the pandemic, you know, is it still the case that the international firms prefer not to target the Chinese consumers directly?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because now, because of the liberalization of the licensing regime, they can, if they want, target Chinese consumers directly.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it seems to me they still don't.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that the case?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think many firms try, and they are trying now, but I may say this way the so-called top 30 or top 50 firms in China are Chinese companies.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so they tried, but their market you know is that small.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I mean take take leading international firms like Henley and Partners, Latitude.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they have they have offices in China, but you know, almost no market of you know influence at all.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right, and it's all B2B, right?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think they tried B2C, but not that was successful.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Why why is that?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Why are they not successful with that?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you if if you can go you can go to Vietnam and be successful as an international so you as gold visa from China, you go to Vietnam, you're successful.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't foreign firms go to China?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I mean this way.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, kinda I think 10 years ago, I tried the other market.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's one of the biggest stupid mistakes I ever make.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: I send some my best Chinese stuff to other countries.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you know that's how stupid.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, well, you know, I just made that stupid sense, you know, with a lot of money and uh several years' time.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think that's my way.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: I just changed the stretch.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: I partner with the best local guys and we enter the market together.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: We we we we we market Glovesa brand in a local way, local language, local culture way, we do that.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I think maybe the other firms they've made the same mistake as me in China.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: They try to use in kind of the kind of you know, the Hungley way, Hangle way in in China.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe some fancy events uh no, no, no, in China you have to be low profile.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well now you do.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think before you could be higher profile, but now it's all low profile.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: I before some guy, you know, a lot of guys they are kind of a big profile, not my case.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm I'm low profile in China all the time.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, because I I hear now that uh well, okay, we'll we'll talk about the Chinese market trends a bit later, but I I I want to understand more about this the big mistakes that you made when you were entering the foreign market in your first foray into the international scene.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you you took your best staff, your Chinese staff, and you sent them down to what Vietnam, Venan, India, Oranto, and uh and they were supposed to be the management down there and hire local staff.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Was that the idea?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then there I imagine there was like a cultural clash between Chinese management and local staff.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: I I think the no, I think the the but that's that's okay, but the the the only permanent problem is we just can cannot send any local clients.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, I mean I mean we have no clients.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: We tried a lot of marketing ways, no one will send contracting with us.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean is that because you you you guys in China didn't understand how the local market worked, or is it because you didn't have the right local connections, or what was the reason you couldn't sell locally?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think uh in a lot of reasons.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think the uh the the the basic uh thing is uh we don't understand the local market, and also you know we we try to do it in a Chinese way, so the result is we only send some local Chinese.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I mean that's it.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's the story.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: According to what we hear now, demand for investment migration among the Chinese is stronger than ever.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, we also hear that it's becoming more difficult for supply and demand to meet in China, partly because of various policy restrictions, partly because of the sensitive nature of immigration as a subject.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: People want to be low-key, as you say.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think the days of big expos, big exhibitions, big conferences in China are kind of over when it comes to immigration.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I have two questions related to that.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are the biggest drivers of demand for immigration among the Chinese right now?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: And what are the biggest challenges in terms of the industry's ability to serve that demand on the mainland?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in mainland, uh, I I think the the driving force is uh you know the security.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: The security reason.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's just people just don't feel security, you know.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: They don't feel safe enough.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's a driven force.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then for the challenge, I mean for Glow Visa, I mean for our model, no challenge at all.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Kendall, you know, our model is because we are we are quite big in China, most of my clients.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: I MAC one years ago it's 70%, and now MAC is 80%.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: 80% of my clients are referrals.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of, I don't need the big events, I don't need any marketing things, I don't need you know, I just look perfectly quite okay because all my clients are referred clients.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my business model in China.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: But that's because you've been in business for more than 20 years, and you you know you have made so many satisfied clients who introduce their cousins and their friends and their neighbors to you, right?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: But if we're talking about, let's say, a younger company that hasn't been, you know, let's say they're three, four years old, five people team, they're they're a bit more limited now than they were in the past in terms of you know how do they actually reach the Chinese consumer.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that the case?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think the case is uh more complicated.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because now the competition is too hot, I may say this way.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: So no one plays a long-term scenes, you know.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: No one plays a long-term scenes.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of you have to survive because of the competition.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that means you know, kind of for some program, like Golden Visa, like EB5, like CBI, for some clients, if you just uh you know get one client, you can charge some crazy price.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: You can get the profit.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: The profit maybe can you can keep your operation for one year.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's a story.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: So no one no one does the business in a decent way anymore.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody plays a short-term stretch.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Find one rich guy and uh get some crazy profit then to s to seize another one.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody, small sense, they just play this kind of short-term things.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I why don't they why don't they want to build for the longer term?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because uh competition.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you longer term you have to pay a huge marketing budget to do that, you just cannot afford it.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in China, you know, know this kind of uh angel thing.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you cannot buy incubator and know this kind of firm.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: So you just cannot cannot get finance to do that.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I think basically that's a that's a story.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you also said that the the driver, the primary driver in China is still that people feel insecure, they don't feel safe.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: What specifically, I mean, I can think of a few things that people might be worried about in China.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: For example, there's this common prosperity where you know your taxes are increasing, tax collection is increasing, and tax audits from years ago, that's increasing.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you go back 25 years in China, let's say, I mean, I I spent in the in the in the 2000s in the in the 2010s, I was uh spent time in Chongqing.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think most people there paid all the taxes they were supposed to pay.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if you go back long enough time in China and do tax audits, practically anybody, practically everybody had some kind of income that they didn't declare, right?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing to worry about, I think.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing is the economy is slowing down, there's the potential for armed conflict with neighboring countries.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: What what do you think are the main reasons?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Why do people feel unsafe in China?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: But you know this topic uh a little bit sensitive to for me.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, so please don't say anything that I mean see this way tax is not a problem anymore.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: But in the recent years, most of good good entrepreneurs they pay tax very, very well.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: Any taxes, you know, canada.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: We have to do that.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's that won't be an issue anymore.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: The other things, you know, it's it's it's it's a little bit sensitive.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I understand.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: I understand.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: I want to understand in this internationalization drive that you have at Globe, your new strategy it is to partner with local firms.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: So rather than sending over your own people and starting a company from scratch in the new place, you find people to work with locally.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: How do you decide whom to work with?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: What do you look for specifically in a partner?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh I mean it's just like recruiting new stuff.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know who is good, who is good, who is bad.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: You have to test.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: You have to work together with them, then you then you can tell.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: So it's need time, it need time to got all the results.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: So for us, it's quite simple.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: We find some potential partners, you know.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: Even for me, I I I code called some stuff, some partners.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I do that sometimes.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then we talked.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: If there's some chemistry between us, we will set up a partnership.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: Then we talked every week.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: We talked every week, we share something, you know, kind of it's it's it's quite, you know, actually, maybe we can talk about the East Temper firm.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh the local partner is missuit.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, we have some problem.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Projects problem.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: But then we we will, you know, sometimes you you you you just made a bad judgment, it's not a good project.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I personally I made some mistakes, and uh the the East Temper firm sold the LED projects.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's quite quite a good story.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: Then we face problem together.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: I told that partner, sorry, it's my fault.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: I will take all the cost, loss from your side.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay, quite okay.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: Financial, I'm I'm okay, so I'm sorry.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then Mesuda told me, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: We are partnered, we have to share everything.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: I I I won't take any money from your side.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think I mean that's good.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of the partner I want.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's some kind of brotherhood.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I want with partnerships.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a very good story.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's happened one week ago.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of that's a good story.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, like I said, I always want to fund a lifetime business.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not just diversified.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, in different programs.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the other diversification is I cannot just be in China.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: What if better things happen to China?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot just be maybe in Hong Kong, maybe in Singapore, maybe in what happened to that?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to cover as many countries as possible.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of my lifetime dream to do that kind of uh things.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I tried very hard to do that.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very illustrative story about uh your Turkey partner.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh you know, you know, when when time story you know happened between your different uh partners, I just I just enjoy, you know.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a wonderful life story.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it is.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's also you know, when when things go wrong, it's often when you see what people are really made of, right?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: It is you you spoke about your dream just now, your your dream of having a lifetime business, as you call it.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and what you mean by that, I guess, is a business that you'll never have to leave or that never dies and and and hopefully survives long after you are gone.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that drives Henry Funn philosophically, you know, ideologically?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that I mean obviously it's a long time since you stopped needing money?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to make more money, you don't need to you don't want fame.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: So what is it that is the main motivation for you?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: What is your your big dream for globism?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it's uh it's uh it's quite a personal.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's it's quite personal.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: So so it talk about my personality.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, everybody so you know we we should pursue the happiness.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: But what's a happiness?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: For me, I just uh think the the more I mean if you do the right thing in the right direction, the more you sacrificed, the more you compromised, the happier you may feel in the long term.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's just just my my philosophy.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: The more you sacrifice, the happier you feel in the long term, you have to explain that to me.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I don't understand.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like you know, maybe let's talk about the marathon.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you you know the the the the final moment when you finish the marathon, you feel so happy.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you're just the you know, you can stand in the in the in that finish line, you don't feel anything because I trained a lot, I suffer a lot, and then I just achieve my my goal.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: I feel very happy.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's not that moment, it's uh it's a journey.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's a hard training, it's a torture.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: That thing makes make me happy.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean it as uh I know what happened to me, you know, I think I'm I'm a lucky man, but uh I'm really at a very early age.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: I know that I'm that kind of person.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: I want some long-term happiness.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: I want some, you know, some some goals.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's quite difficult, but it's still it's reachable.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: If I spend 20 years, so I'm kind of that person.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's the reason you know I tried marathon then, you know, the early this April, I think I tried it seven days, seven full marathon in Taiwan.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: And this weekend I finished my 100 kilometers uh trail race.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that my next goal will be 100 miles trail.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: And kind of it's it's you need some goals, and you train yourself hard to do that.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's kind of the personal thing.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: If that's my personality, so the business is the same thing.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: I want to find this kind of goal.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I I will work very hard, I will learn everything, I will try to enjoy the journey, not the you know, not not the result.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think the whole journey is what I want.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know the the you know, I have the that big picture.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: The picture is I may have offices everywhere.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: So every year I may choose a city.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe every month I may choose the office there.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: I stay there, I learn the local culture.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: In the weekend, I visit the neighborhood, working day.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: I I hang out with my staff, provider, and clients together.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my so-called happy life.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: Then, you know, kind of I I I I you know will do the investment relations.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do some good workers, and maybe I will do something for the family, maybe do something for the refugee.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, kind of, you know, that's a good thing.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: You can change people's life.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's the very personal things.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: I want to say it's quite difficult, but I I I I am very willing to spend my whole life to pursue that.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel similar to you in that whenever I've made some kind of achievement, the the pleasure of that achievement is very ephemeral.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's over like this, like you described with the marathon, right?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really the the preparation for the marathon.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's the thinking about how should I do this, how should it the continuous improvement, Gai Shan, right?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: That that that's what gives you the happiness in the moment, not the yeah.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: I I will say the journey is a reward.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: The journey is a reward, not the reward.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: So then it's if that's the case, then it's important to always have goals, always have a next goal that you can work toward.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also, I think, very rewarding for you to be doing like right now, you're working on your businesses and you're very good at operations, and doing things that you are good at is also very rewarding, I think.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, so just keep doing more of that.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, kind of you know, I think yesterday I I I saw a film, it's about uh a woman.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: swimming 100 miles from Cuba to Florida.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's a movie.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: There is a very good line.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me what it you plan to do if you if you have only one wild and precious life.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: I just listen to that line I think wow I have mine.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: Wild and precious quite good in just as that moment.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh I'm lucky.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well maybe you're lucky but you've also worked hard right yeah sure I want to ask a little bit about the future of this market.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know I I've said before that I have a dream in which everybody has multiple citizenships and residencies and we have properties in different continents and we're very mobile and we have friends in different cities around the world and we're we're not under the thumb of any single country.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: I realize that's of course many many years away but what what do you see as the you know if we if we if we go back and we start by you know everybody used to be a citizen of one country and live in one country their whole life now we're in this transition phase where there are some people that have multiple citizenships and some people that live international lifestyles but but still not everybody if we you know fast forward to 20 years from now what kind of world are we looking at in that respect?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know by the way I just uh finished this other book you know that book.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh how to find freedom in an unfree world yeah it's a great book yeah it's a pretty good book and uh for me I actually I don't care I be I I I don't know but I kind of I I I may say this way I will try my best to build a platform with that platform maybe I can help people it's just like Disney I can help people realize they have so many choices in their life you don't have to need you pay a super big money to do that you don't have to you know Nobel prize to do that no if you want Globisa platform will help you.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just my my my personal sense I don't care because I I just cannot control everything you know in the long term who knows what the world will be I I have no idea.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just contribute my my part I will try my best to to do my to do my job maybe I can help people I hope so yeah well I I know that a lot of firms say you know no we focus on high net worth individuals but what you're describing is a democratization of mobility in a sense you want to make this available to everybody right yeah a funny thing is uh you know you know you know I I like Elon Musk you know I I I almost uh watch all his videos you know Elon Musk the Tesla story have you watched the uh high end dumble things I share the same video you know that's my business model I said wow see I'm similar with Elon Musk I'm honest yeah so just just for the audience so they understand what we're talking about Elon Musk you know when he built his first it was model S was it uh what was it called not model S it's kind of the risk car it's uh oh yeah uh roadster the roadster yeah yeah the roadster yeah when he built the first the first Tesla it it was a very expensive one it was an upmarket one yeah and he said you know you you have to start there to kind of get the first of all to prove that an electric vehicle can be fast and and long range but also to to have the margins so that you can have the revenue to later build out sort of lower cost yeah the modular three yeah and I I think this is something that happens in almost all industries you know rich people get the nice things first they can pay the premiere price yeah they can pay the premium exactly so whether we're talking about you know mobile phones or multiple citizenships the rich people basically finance the development of that sector because they're they're willing to pay stupid money for you know I remember I tell the story sometimes my dad in the 80s he had had one of those phones like mobile the first mobile phones that were like enormous right and I think he paid you know ten thousand dollars for that something like this back in the day and and because he was willing to pay that now that money is available to go into research and development and it attracts new companies to the mobile phone industry all of this drives down prices and now little kids in Ethiopia have mobile phones right and I think the same is going to happen in immigration yes I mean say this way you know I relocated to Hong Kong eight years ago I have a house helper Sally from Philippine she has been with our family for eight years she's one of my family but you know she's from Philippine for eight years she left just maybe two months in total for eight years.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: She has a husband son in in Philippine but he has to make money and the in Hong Kong the it's it's you know the price is the the the the salary is regulated so kind of it's uh 4000 uh and six thousand uh Hong Kong dollars you know it's that cheap right I mean you know salary is my family so I think maybe maybe if by any chance I can maybe I can do something for Philippine people maybe I can you know give them some education maybe they can migrate to in the states directly maybe they can go they can they can migrate to Canada.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: The salary is good they want to do that so so maybe that's something I want to do you know because when Sally told me you know her story you know that kind of things uh it's a terrible story I think yeah I hope one day I can help someone like that yeah I get it I get it I remember I I when I lived in Hong Kong uh I remember every every Sunday the I know what they mean the the Filipinas and the Indonesian maids I am yeah they live in they are all good people they are my family you know Hassan is it's it's a my family it's kind of no but it's they they have some really harrowing stories you know they leave their families back home and and then they have to live they had no choice but to come to Hong Kong to live this kind of life is they think that's their only way out yeah but no no that's not the case just because no one helps them yeah yeah I look forward to this future where I always remember you know you know actually that night in Kuchin we talked we talked and I think I said something you said maybe Harry gave me some opinion I said uh you maybe you should do that that's your dream that's your passion you follow your dream and you you do something you you you you love and there's the best thing is you can make some money and you're helping people you know why I said this was to you you know after we we we know we we departed we were part of blessings I felt oh that's that's something I said to myself you know at that moment I just think oh that's my original dream I just reminded myself many times I I can't forget that that's my original dream never never you know lose sight of your dream sometimes you know because of competition I may pay more attention to making money even I don't need money I need more money but I kind of you know it's competition you just uh you just lost you just got lost but as I might you know when we have that conversation you know kind of I think wow that's something I said to you but I think that's something I should say to myself I should say to myself no but of course if you're if you're uh you know day to day you're involved in operations and you have to worry about competition and all that then yeah you you also need to focus on the money because making more money is what's going to help you reinvest in your company and and deliver these services to more people also that's a reason you no matter how busy I am I I will I I always will try to find some to to to raid and to to run.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know kind of you you just cannot do you know cannot be too busy.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: No you cannot see that way.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you know I know you're an avid marathon runner long distance runner you you you did a hundred kilometers uh recently and I imagine that is a good time to because then you're not reading your email you're not you know nobody's calling you that's a good time good time to reflect right that's a good time to meditate and and think of the future and your plans no i I mean I mean uh it's meditation I I didn't think about my future like I just uh reminded myself you know kind of kind of focus on every step focus on the journey focus on on the present focus on the mountain view nothing else well you know sometimes you you kind of got lost you think about business think about marriage think about the future the you know competition but I I just remind myself no no no no no no don't do that way don't waste your life that day that's your you know running day you know it's it's very hard it's fine so you're saying you you try to stay in the moment yes yeah enjoy the every footstep okay Henry I think it's a good time to end it don't you think yeah yeah it's a very nice talk yeah it's it's not an interview it's a it's it's a nice talk you know I mean personally I always want this kind of uh sincere talk I mean see this way it's not such a social talk I I hate a small talk yeah it it it it's quite a good thing yeah to talk with you likewise yeah we don't we don't talk about little things I don't like that either and in fact you know when I meet new people I I try to talk about the big things right away because some people get scared away by that and other people say oh that's a very interesting refreshing conversation and they become friends you know sometimes when I met new people I will ask uh what's up and what's the meaning of your of your life right yeah sometimes I will I'm curious people people I just most people they don't get used to that no they get scared they get scared but that's okay because some people don't get scared some people think wow what an interesting question I want to talk more to Henry you know yeah if I met some wise guy I always want to have you know get this kind of uh life license from the from the outside you know that's that's that's kind of you know I always enjoy this serious talk I don't like you know social talk no life is too short for small talk yes that's it for today folks and hey if you like this podcast and think it can be of value to someone else tell your friends about us we'll be back soon with a new episode of the mobility standard thank you for listening