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In Sickness and In Health: Loving Your Spouse Through Chronic Illness · Mud & Rib Podcast

• 0:00
  [music]
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everybody.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Mud and Rib Podcast.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're glad to have you back with us.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: So today we're going to be talking about something that's more personal to us.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to talk about what it's like to live with someone who has a chronic illness.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to call this in sickness and in health.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you can guess Guy's the one with the chronic health illness.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's me.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now I think part of also one of the core values of this is like covenant relationships.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean to have a covenant commitment to Christ?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: To your spouse, to your Christian community.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's a,
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: if we say what the core value of all of this,
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: as far as the principle of following Jesus and being a part of his family,
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that's the core of this.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's good.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there's a lot of people out there that are suffering kind of silent illness.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they would never know.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there might be many people who listen to this that know me
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: that would never guess what That I have chronic health issues.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's probably true, you know, unless you're up close and personal.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: part of it is just because you are so driven that many things you push through,
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: but there have been many times you just couldn't push through
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: and were really struggling physically.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say,
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: if you know from our last podcast,
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I believe the last one was about busyness and how busyness is killing us.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that some of that busyness and drivenness about me has contributed
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: to my health issues.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't think it's the cause of them, but I do think that it has made them worse.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: The guyism for this is plate fillers are killers.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: When you fill up your plate so much over and over again,
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: to the point to where it crashes your cortisol,
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: all kinds of things, and your body just does not respond.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: God said rest for a reason.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So people might be wondering, like, what kind of chronic health illness do I have?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have anything that you could really put a name to.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's more a lot of random symptoms that have created a lot of fatigue,
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: inability to sleep, which then that creates lots of other problems.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: But let's go back all the way maybe to the beginning when we first started dating.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've had something wrong with my stomach since our first date.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, really...
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I guess the way to generalize the condition that you have is a lot of autoimmune stuff.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of really weird stuff, you know, since you were a little girl.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: growing up with parents, well,
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: your mom,
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: who was a peanut farmer and exposed to all kinds of chemicals and stuff back in
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: the day that has been passed on to you.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And there's just a, just a plethora of complications as a result of that.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Many other things, some of the things we can't explain.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one of the most difficult things about what's wrong
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: with me is it's like you can't really put a name to it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no seeming diagnosis, although there have been diagnosis, but I didn't accept them.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I started having symptoms and I started waking up and by 1030, I had to go back to bed.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And for no explanation,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've always teased saying I'm really healthy because I don't get,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: not to say I'll probably get a cold after this, but I don't typically get colds.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't typically get the flu.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't typically, I bet I can count maybe two or three times in my whole life I've had the flu.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's kind of strange because you think of immunity,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: having a lot of those kinds of things when really it's been other bizarro world type
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: of stuff like COVID.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: What they would label as chronic fatigue
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: and just other strange joint issues like arthritic type of stuff.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Some have said lupus and then some have gone to the thyroid.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been a lot of complications.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Lyme disease.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that all the practices have tried to practice upon you
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: and there hasn't been any real clarity.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not relying on modern medicine currently.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that I would not ever utilize modern medicine to get to the problem,
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: but they so far have not been successful.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: So just as an example,
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: I went to a doctor of internal medicine many,
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: many years back,
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: and their diagnosis after testing me for Lyme, lupus,
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: all the different things,
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: although there's not specific tests for some of those,
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: it's just more symptomatic, they came to the conclusion that I had fibromyalgia.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I started back.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: How did I research what fibromyalgia was back then?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do we have phones then?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, I did research on fibromyalgia.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's a side note.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: You got on your horse and rode down to the library.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: But now I'm questioning.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, that's a side note.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's a dot matrix system.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: You went up on fish slides or something.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, it wasn't.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it was.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, I did some research and I was just told guys that I do not accept this diagnosis.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: I am too young.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: I am too in my mind energetic.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: My body is just not lining up with what I know I'm capable of doing.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started seeing,
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: we started going to our friend that was a chiropractor and a big shout out
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: for Discover Wellness in the Cypress area.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: As we started going to them and getting adjusted,
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: one thing was my body was completely misaligned.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: I had had a fall when our daughter was a baby and injured my back.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's still, that's also part of my chronic problems is I have a back injury.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I started talking with Tracy,
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: the nutritionist, not only being adjusted, but seeing the nutritionist.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And she ran some tests, found some things.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Often people who are more in the holistic world are going to do a deeper dive
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: and test to find out what's wrong with you.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Your general practitioner typically does not go as deep and look at the things that
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: a holistic doctor is going to look at.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so she helped me get to some underlying causes,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: just some things like really low on vitamin D, things like that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I started changing my eating.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I thought and we thought we were eating pretty healthy.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: But this was back during the whole fat free, sugar free phase.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And everything was aspartame.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we were tanking aspartame.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was probably drinking five or six Diet Cokes at that time.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was still quite a bit of sugar in our intake.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not realizing like, oh, ketchup has sugar, mustard had sugar, everything had sugar.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so back then, yogurts had aspartame.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we ate a lot of yogurt.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: We drank Diet Cokes.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And just quitting those things alone completely revolutionized my health.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started feeling so much better.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't in bed at 1030 every day.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the thing I want to mention is everything that I've done
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: to some degree has helped me a lot.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so we'll get into some of the frustrations with that later,
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: but that was kind of the start of this journey looking to more holistic medicine.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think as we talk about living by design as image bearers from our home,
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: that does not just mean spiritual disconnected from soul and body.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's body, soul, and spirit.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's 1 Thessalonians 5.24.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what led me to write Eat Your Way to God was our experience
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: of seeing additives and preservatives.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Basically create a lot of problems,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: not only in our food, in our church life, in our emotional life.
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  SPEAKER_01: How can we live in such a way that it's living by design?
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think some people would say, well, I drink Diet Cokes every day and I feel fine.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: I felt fine.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so Guy felt fine.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: But my, as we call it, my toxic tank was just small and I couldn't handle those types of things.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so I always say that I would probably be a lot worse off if we had not done these changes.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, we went from there.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen a chiropractor for probably 20 years now,
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: and I would not stop as long as we can possibly afford it because it's made
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: a huge difference for me.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: With my back and just overall health, but also changing the way we eat.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: So back then we removed mostly aspartame.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: We went on a pretty strict no grains diet.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the problem with me is anything I do, I do 100%.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I did that and I lost weight and I was feeling really great.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I did it for so long,
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: which it was probably supposed to be more of an intermediary type of thing
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  SPEAKER_00: that you would only do for a short time period.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just to get better.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then you could reintroduce to other foods.
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  SPEAKER_00: But instead of my typical got to do everything,
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: over the top,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: I did it for so long that I think I started creating problems for myself.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: No one told me to do that.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: That was just me doing it.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: That then I run some things with my gut because I had no variety in my diet.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I kind of did that to myself.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So now I don't have like the little fingers in your stomach or in your intestine
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: that help move food.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so my stomach gets food kind of rotting in it, so to speak.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just an endless process.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Saga of all these problems that cause me sometimes periods of just having to go to bed.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can't get up because I'm so fatigued.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you think has been the hardest part for you being
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: the person who's super healthy, you're fit, all the things?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to confess for every man,
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: but I think in general, most men like to fix stuff and you can't fix that.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been super...
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Challenging,
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: and it's something that's out of your control,
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: and that's a whole other issue because you feel uncomfortable not being in control
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: of stuff,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: but it's led me to really trust God at a deeper level,
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: and so that's been a big part of this that's Difficult,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: but all our difficulties are opportunities.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it has been an opportunity to trust God and to love you more effectively and
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: to live out the commitment, the vow, the covenant relationship that God's given us.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I kind of get emotional thinking about the fact that you've just done so well
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: at taking care of me, loving me, and not making me feel guilty or bad
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I already deal with enough of that on my own.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you made sarcastic comments or resented me for these things,
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: then it would make it a lot harder for me to walk in acceptance and just my identity
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: in this illness.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I appreciate that.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel like that we're in this together.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that I felt like was important for me to serve you Was
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: to say, whatever nutrition we need to eat, I'm all in.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: I will eat it with you.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever we need to do, I will do it with you.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Particularly those things that related to this whole idea of getting back
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: to more living by design.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know many of you on here believe that Chick-fil-A is God's chicken,
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: and I would tell you that it's the devil's chicken because it's got about 50 to 60.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so disappointing.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: You're crushing people right now.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that, man,
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: it's been huge for me that anytime that I've done some type of eating plan,
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: guys, I've done, I swear I've done them all.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: There's probably a few.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've done AIP,
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: but I've done so many eating plans and in themselves for a season,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: they would help and they've made a difference,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: but there's just certain things that are just out of my control that I can't help.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: But you doing those things with me makes it so hard.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: that speaks love to me more than anything because there's nothing like trying
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: to cook food for your family, try to cook something different for yourself.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And not only that,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: just the struggle that it is to do things that are really hard
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: to do it alone is really challenging.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're always better together, if you ask me.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And part of that means making decisions that are not built upon selfishness.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I understand there's certain things that you just flat out don't like or,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know, the food makes you go, you know, I get that.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: But most of what we're eating,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's been very few things I'm like, I just can't stand that to not do it.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: But.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sick of drinking chicken broth right
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: now, but it's still good.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just sick of it.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe let's talk about expectations versus reality.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are some of the things that maybe were expectations about our marriage
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: that this chronic health problem has affected and reality is different?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we go into,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know, we say vows like, In sickness, you know, and in health, I commit to you.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Hoping and praying that you
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: never have to.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think really the expectation is we don't really think about that.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Will I make that kind of commitment, you know, no matter what?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: And there's been several men in my life that I've watched them and talk about getting emotional.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: I watched them love their wives to death.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning literally love them through very difficult times until their wives went on
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: to be with the Lord.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I respected those men.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: So much for displaying the love of Christ and the covenant commitment of Christ to their wives.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that's what it means to be a real man.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: if you know my story,
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: one of the big parts of my story was God helped me know what it means to be
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: a real man,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: a man after your heart, a man committed to your eternal purposes above all else.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I've failed forward in that, but I've learned a lot in that process.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And there's been many great men who've gone before me that have modeled that,
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: that I honor because it taught me so much about what it means to love
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: and how shattered dreams and broken expectations can lead to disappointment.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to learn to deal with disappointment in your life because all
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: of us are going to have disappointment.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: All of us are going to have shattered dreams and broken expectations.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And part of it is,
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: is that our expectations are whacked and that we live by dreams instead of
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: the vision of God.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by the vision of God,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not talking about some kind of corporate vision that we write out a statement
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: of five to 10 years.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about God speaking.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: In us obeying, God revealing as I grow in my character.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: When the scripture talks about without vision,
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: the people parishes,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: talking about revelation from God,
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: that we die without God's revelation, without His voice.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: If God really is the author and perfecter of life,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: then it's Him revealing Himself to us and us obeying and trusting Him and trusting
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: that His story is good.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is what true revelation and vision is all about.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really good.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's a couple of things that have been real disappointments for me.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And one is that I can't do everything.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to be able to do everything.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I apologize.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: That always makes me laugh.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And why does that make you laugh?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because I don't know if you really...
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think you still want to try to do everything.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to try to do it.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: But you've gotten better.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you some credit.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: You have recognized some limits, Superwoman.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: The other is just disappointment sometimes that I feel like God has not answered
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: the way I would like Him to.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And one example of that,
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: and it's kind of a joke, but it's still the way I feel sometimes, is I don't sleep.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: I have periods of sleeping better, but then I have periods of complete insomnia.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that to the point that I almost can't drive because I'm so tired.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I used to tell you,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: God says he gives his beloved rest,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: but I must not be his beloved because he is not giving me rest.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sleeping.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that is frustrating.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's one area that I have not joined you in.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: You have not.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad you haven't because I don't need both of us up.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: But man,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: it is sad when you don't sleep and you're laying next to someone
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: that their head hits a pillow.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: I told him last night, I said, we're going to watch a show.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, how long do you think I'll make it?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I'm giving you eight minutes.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And on the money, it was eight minutes and this guy was asleep.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: One of the frustrations in all of this has been dealing with your drivenness
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: and your Constantly filling the plate so full that it causes you to crash.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's an honest confession.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, I know that.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: That it is really frustrating.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is not a surprise to me.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I know.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I've expressed this.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I really worked hard over these last couple of years being where we are.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: You've gotten tons better.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I say no to things.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Know your limitations, people.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all of us have them.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, the other disappointment is that we love to do ministry together.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we've always traveled together.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we still do.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Compared to a lot of people, we still do.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do tons together.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: But for me,
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: international travel has to be limited because it throws me off so bad,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: both my health problems,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: my sleep,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: all these things that typically I'm not traveling as much with you internationally.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, super proud of you for that piece because it,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'd rather you be with me during that time,
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: but it does no good when,
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know, there's been several trips where you almost couldn't function.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Just if you don't know jet lag,
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: man, particularly of the 10 to 13 hour
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: variety,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: it's next level painful.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm grateful that you've embraced your limits on that.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been hard,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: but we just thank God and we keep doing what we need to do and we adjust
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: to our limits and trust him because he's limitless.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: one other disappointment is that when you feel like you're doing everything right,
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: and I mean, we eat really healthy.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: We are trying to grow some of our own food.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're harvesting some of our own chickens just to be sure that we're aware of
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: where all of our food is coming from as much as humanly possible
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: with our busy lives.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And to do that, And to still have these problems is frustrating.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just reminded me again and again, thank God for the ability to do this.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because knowing how bad off I was when I was eating things
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: that were chemically filled,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was so sick that I would probably be, honestly, I think I could be dead by now.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: So what has been the hardest part about all of that?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just...
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Things, me not being well when I've done everything.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we've spent so much money for me to be well.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: This practitioner, this practitioner.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And again, they've all helped.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't like I see it as a waste.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Supplements and time and energy and all of these things and to not have
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: a full-blown answer to my problem and knowing that this is probably or could be
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: a lifetime of Struggle, maybe better sometimes, maybe worse sometimes.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: That has been an extreme disappointment for me.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you said you felt frustrated.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the other feelings that you've had?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: I feel mad sometimes, really genuinely mad.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one thing that I do want to say is that when our kids were little,
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: we didn't adopt our son until he was eight.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so early on, we had daughters and I really worked hard.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And not talking about my body around our girls.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I did not want to be a mom that talked about I'm overweight,
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: critiquing my body,
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: things like that, or I'm too thin or whatever the case may be in front of my girls.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: I really made a huge effort to do that.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: But when I got sick and started really going down this health journey around food,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: I became so aware of The atrocity of so much of the food that we eat that I talked
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: about food a lot.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that I built into my daughters some aversions around food
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: and unhealthy views around food when here I tried to avoid things related to,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: and these are things that I have since talked to my daughters about.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: I can't undo what has been done,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: but in my pursuit of health,
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: I did some things that I wish that I would have done differently around food.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is an important principle
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: because I think any time you had your eyes open to something that's such a reality
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: to you,
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: In many ways,
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: you try to control and force that onto other people or you're so passionate about it
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: and so persuasive that you end up driving other people away rather than drawing them
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: to it.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's true of people who come to Christ and see deeper principles,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: see things that their eyes have been opened to.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And there ought to be grace and truth in everything we do that in such a way
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: that we grow in that type of wisdom that people are drawn to us.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's what Jesus did.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, we kind of drive people away.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And don't extend the grace that understands process,
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: that you need to accept people where they are and help move them towards
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: where God wants them to be.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's many, M-A-N-Y, many M-I-N-I steps from where you are to God's revelation and vision.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so you help people in that process instead of immediately trying to expect them
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: to be where maybe you are.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is a principle that applies to so many areas and really applies
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: to what you just said and how difficult it can be when you find something that is
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: so healing for you and you want everyone to do it.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like food.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And food and our relationship with Christ that everything is permissible,
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: but not everything is beneficial.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we want to try to benefit people.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: I just wish I would have done more to let people ask me what it was I was doing
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: than try to tell people.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: and with our,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it just really makes me sad because I don't want to see my girls.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: They're adults and they're responsible for themselves now.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Every parent's going to mess up in some way.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And my girls are gracious and good and they've, Told me, Mom, we forgive you.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we know it was not on purpose.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I see things that they wrestle with, and that's hard.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing that if I could do things differently, I would.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate your vulnerability in that and being willing to share that.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's still raw.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just grateful for walking this journey with you.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about, okay, so you're going through this chronic issue.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really not.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm not in your shoes.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So help me and others.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: How can we empathize?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: How can we walk with you in these kind of chronic things?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do I need to just tell you that,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: man, if you just trusted Jesus, you would not struggle like this?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, I would punch you if you said something like that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: You need to turn from your sin.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's that sin in your life that's created this.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely not.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you just got some healings.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: And got around and believed that Jesus heals all things.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: People actually say stuff like this.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's definitely a don't do.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me what to do.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, really, it's more around just empathizing.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry that you're not feeling good today.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is there anything that I can do to help you?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not anything I can do to fix you,
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: because in a lot of cases,
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: we know people that are much more chronically ill than I am,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: and there is no fixing the problem.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't know that there's any fix to my problem.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so really, you've just, you've done those things.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: You have been empathetic.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: You've not tried to force me to go places when I wasn't.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: You take my, I can't do this as much.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: My word is true because I don't use being sick as a way to be lazy.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty easy with you because you overdo it and not underdo it.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's underdoers and there's overdoers.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're definitely an overdoer.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's for sure.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And just like you said before, I mean, you support me by eating what I eat.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And even if you didn't do that,
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: but just supporting me with,
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: you never make me feel bad about the money we've spent on things,
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: the fact that we buy food.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty much all organic, grass-fed, grass-finished meats.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever we have to do financially,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: we've prioritized our food in our family and everything from the chemicals we put
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: on our bodies to the laundry detergent we use.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's expensive to live like that.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: But for us and for me,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: because of my toxic tank and the things that I've been handed down from my family,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: I can't have those things.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so just being supportive of those things at all costs Has been huge.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it also makes me feel good to know that you're taking care of yourself.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need both of us sick.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so you taking care of yourself, you know, you know, this is one of the things people do.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: I will tell you this is something people do because I have a back injury.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you how many trainers have tried to tell me,
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: oh, I know what I need to do for you to help you work through and get fit.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I And not hurt your back.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not lying, every single one has hurt my back with whatever they've done.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know my limitations and the fact that you believe me about that and you don't try
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: to,
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: because you are an athlete and you are always working out,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: you don't try to push me to do things that you know I can't do.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: You've accepted me the way that I am and not,
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to be more fit physically and But I know that a lot
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: of those things make me worse.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, with some autoimmune disorders,
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: you also have a reaction to extensive working out, which sounds like a cop-out.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you've never made me feel like that you think that's the case.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, again,
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: we live in a broken world,
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: and Jesus has restored us,
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: but there's still a part that he hadn't completely restored us.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's still a day there will be a transformed new heaven, new earth.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we're not at that place.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Philippians 321 promises a brand new body.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so while we live in this body, our bodies are decaying away.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there is difficulty.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean Jesus can't heal.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: We've seen God heal some people.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we've believed that for you.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we have friends who right now are suffering through all kinds of chronic things
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: that walk with God.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I think above all else,
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: we have got to love and hold to the truth and the principles of the kingdom
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: to place our king in control and know there's coming a better day.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: But also the kingdom and eternal life starts now.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that he is enough to help us through whatever difficulty that we are walking through.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: He is enough.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And in this world, you will suffer.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a big part of it is to embrace our limitations,
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: to embrace suffering,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: and to know that Jesus is enough and that he is
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: with us no matter how difficult it can be.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the things that I hope people can leave here with is there's a couple.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: We used to,
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: you go to the store,
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: you see somebody's kid freaking out, and,
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know, everybody has a tendency to think, oh, that parent just needs to do X.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: That child needs a whooping.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: A whooping in our day.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they would think.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you whip your kids in public, you might go to jail.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: But we have a granddaughter who has something that is not visible to other people
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: and can be perceived as a disciplinary issue when,
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: in fact, it's not because we've witnessed it.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: We know firsthand that it is not a discipline issue.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Our daughter is an amazing mother.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And she's amazing parents,
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: but behind the scenes,
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: we know that there's something wrong with her that is a challenge.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: When people see me,
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: they don't necessarily think something's wrong with me,
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: but we know because we live with it that there is.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the point of this is that we never know what people,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know we've said,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: you hear this all the time,
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: but if you know me,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: maybe this will help you be a little more gracious to other people.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: That you never know what people are dealing with behind the scenes that maybe isn't visible.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of silent things that people struggle with that we need
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: to extend grace around the things that are happening outwardly
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: that maybe we don't understand what's going on on the inside.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we oversimplify things and think of quick fixes way too much
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: and don't understand process, don't really...
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Empathize with people and are not real good at walking a mile in someone else's shoes.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing I was thinking about earlier
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: that you asked me what people can do is personally,
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: I can only speak for me, but I do not want to be coddled.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want people feeling sorry for me.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Those things would make me worse, honestly.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: I just want people to be aware and do what they can do to help me when I need help.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't want to be pitying and I don't want people feeling sorry for me or coddling me.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: That would make me crazy.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: That may not be the case for everybody.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: I get that.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: So is there anything else that you wanted to share on this before we kind of do
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: a closing parting shot?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just I think the other thing is how important our identity is,
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: that we have to know who we are and that our productivity,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Our limitations,
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: all of those things do not change who we are in the sight, in God's sight.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And our identity is not wrapped up in that.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: That has been a hard thing for me to accept that my identity is not wrapped up
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: in productivity specifically.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's my personality.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that I'm not broken because I live in a broken world.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: My body has not failed me.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: I just have things that are not completely aligned the way God would want.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: But he has every right to not heal me completely.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: That that is certainly something he can do.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: But we do,
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: as you said before,
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: we live in a broken world and not everything is going to always be healed.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it has made me trust Jesus more deeply.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: and so one of the things I'd like to say at the end goes back to what I talked about
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: at the very beginning of this is the covenant commitment that we make
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: with our spouses and with our community means that I am saying
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: the Lord bless you even if it kills me.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we have these commitments that we make.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I made a commitment to you,
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: a vow to you that we were going to covenant before God that we were going to commit
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: to one another in sickness or in health until death do us part.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm not sacrificing you on the altar of ministry.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: And to me,
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: one of the disheartening,
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: disappointing,
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: and dysfunctional things that I've observed is people sacrificing their family on
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: the altar of ministry.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'm calling ministry, I don't think is really ministry.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: What I believe is ministry is your covenant relationship with God and
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: with those other people who are close to you.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And through that,
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: the gospel flows,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: disciple-making flows,
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: because if you and I don't work as image bearers from our home,
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe that Ephesians 5 is fulfilled,
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: where it says that you and I are an example of Christ's love for the church,
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: and that the church should function this way, the way that you and I function.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we think that our church...
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: We are a bad model.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you have covenanted with that wife and with those children and with your community.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: To make that organization big.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the next things I want us to talk about in the future is this whole idea
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: that comes from the prophetic voice of the Old Testament,
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: that we are city builders rather than kingdom builders.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: And city builders sacrifices people on the altar of ministry.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we say things like,
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: What came out in the Mars Hill documentary that you either get on the bus or
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: the bus runs over you.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Basically saying this city is going to go forward and we will sacrifice
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: and leave people dead in the wake of it to commit to this organization,
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: to this so-called ministry, this church being big and growing.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's city building.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll talk a lot more in detail about these type of urges and impulses
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: that sacrifices people and that sacrifices connecting with God and with others.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody would know better than I all the things that you have said no to.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: In order to prioritize your family.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: And for that, I am super grateful that you, you know, that you've made a priority of doing that.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so and you just mentioned community.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: I meet with a group of women on Thursdays, every other Thursday, and they have listened to me.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: For years, talk about my health.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I really try not to talk about it unless it's really a problem.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: But they've graciously listened to me and been a place.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: I remember a season of not being able to sleep for so long that I was desperate
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: and text every woman that I knew to pray for me because I had just come to the end
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: of my rope.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the women that just immediately called me,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: prayed on the phone with me and just really supported.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just felt loved and cared for.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: We have to have community in this.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: We can't live in isolation.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a temptation when people are sick is to live in isolation
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: because we think we're a burden.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: What I will tell you is that we are more of a burden when we think we're a burden.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think so.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: It does to me.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: When my mom had dementia,
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: she was so afraid of being a burden to us that she wouldn't do things
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: that would actually make life easier.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so it made her more of a burden because she wouldn't just...
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really am working at believing I'm not a burden.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm of use to the kingdom still.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's plenty of things that I can still do in this season of life.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: To advance the kingdom,
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: to love my family,
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: to care for my family, and my illness is not going to rob me of that.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter if in three years from now I'm bedridden, there are things I can still do.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can pray.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, with technology now you can connect with people.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: We have many people that are in our lives that are in their latter seasons
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: that utilize technology for the kingdom and share the gospel and disciple people
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: or pray.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, our spiritual father cannot get around near as well as he used to,
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: and he prays his guts out for us, and I'm grateful for him.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: So as we wrap up this episode,
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: our prayer is really for any of you that might be suffering with chronic illness,
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: maybe the caretaker of someone who is chronically ill.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Our prayer is that you would really dig deep with Jesus and that you would recognize
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: that he has a purpose in all of this.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: He wants us to model how amazing he is and what he sacrificed for us to others.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we can do that through this type of illness,
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: through chronic illness and pain and suffering, whatever that might be.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's mental illness.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's physical illness.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's Alcoholism or other things that you might be carrying the weight in your family.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Know that God is with you and that your identity is not wrapped up in these things.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know that a lot of us,
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: we have expectations,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: we have dreams and visions that just haven't gone the way
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: that we thought they should or would.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to remind you that Jesus is enough.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: God is sovereign even over our circumstances.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And just cry out to Him and trust Him that He is the way,
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: He is the truth,
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: He is the life,
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: and He is good and worth trusting in our stories,
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: no matter the backdrop of pain, suffering, and difficulty.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you for joining us.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for letting us be honest just about this struggle and about something
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: so deeply personal.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: But we're grateful for you to have you as our audience.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: And until next time.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: God bless you.
• 39:05
  [music]