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S5:E6 - Coffee Smarter: Cowboy Coffee · Coffee People Podcast

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Hey, good morning everyone. Welcome to season 5 episode 6 on
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the roast West Coast coffee podcast.
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I'm Ryan Walt and this is the show where I bring you the
0:20
stories of coffee professionals entrepreneurship and coffee
0:24
education, Chris O'Brien, founder and head roaster of
0:27
coffee cycle. Roasting is back for the last
0:30
Last time in a minute to chat with us about Cowboy Coffee and
0:33
how to make a better cup of coffee outside.
0:35
If say like me, you're going to be out camping this summer.
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I have to begin the show with a warning that sometimes Chris and
0:42
I can go off on a tangent. And that why live more recently
0:46
heard of Cowboy Coffee? It wasn't a term that I grew up
0:49
with. I didn't watch a lot of westerns
0:51
growing up. Mostly just Nick at Nite or
0:53
TGIF. If you are in San Diego this
0:56
week and you find yourself near Pacific Beach, be sure to pop
0:59
over to If you cycle and say hello Chris launched, a new
1:02
Columbia coffee from Finca El Progreso.
1:05
It has lots of milk chocolate flavors and a smooth finish.
1:09
I'm drinking some of the very first sample, roast from this
1:11
coffee and they've already got it dialed in pretty tight.
1:15
You can get your own reusable tin filled with beans at the
1:18
shop in Pacific Beach or if you're not in the area, you can
1:21
order on coffee cycle roasting.com but not before you
1:25
fill up a cup of coffee all the way to the top no room for cream
1:29
because it Is time for yet. Another coffee smarter session
1:32
with my coffee Cowboy. Nope.
1:35
I don't like that. With my coffee Sensei, Chris
1:39
O'Brien of coffee cycle. Roasting
1:53
Chris O'Brien coffee cycle. Roasting you are back on this
1:56
fine podcasting program. That was once that was once, put
2:01
on a list of the top, 60 coffee podcast in the United States by
2:06
a Blog that I had never heard of before, but I still was very
2:09
proud of it. They listed us at number 10.
2:13
So I was immediately my competitive fire was immediately
2:17
sparked and I would like to get up.
2:19
Into the top five at some point. I know that's my goal again.
2:25
I don't know this bog. I've never heard of it before,
2:27
but they sent me an email saying, I was in the top, the
2:30
top 10. So I'm very excited about that.
2:32
It's definitely one of my old towels, you know, at least top
2:35
60. Well, I mean, of all the
2:38
podcasts that you were listening to all the time I am certain
2:41
that this is definitely up there today.
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I want to ask you about something that I learned.
2:49
And about later but I realized I had been doing for a long time
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and that is Cowboy Coffee. It's a term that I've heard with
2:59
referred to as for coffee. That is kind of made generally
3:03
like, while camping or I would imagine like that Cowboys.
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At one point, we're making well out hurting something, her ideal
3:13
like it's, yeah, I'm sure that this has been on Yellowstone at
3:18
some point. I don't know.
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I've only seen a few episodes, but what is Cowboy Coffee from
3:25
there? Let's kind of go into maybe
3:27
coffee Outdoors, or coffee lower camping, or something like that.
3:30
Cool. Well, this is a special show.
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We're figuring out. I mean, as a topic Cowboy Coffee
3:38
is may be lacking in complexity because it's pretty, pretty
3:44
simple concept. But, you know, generally when
3:47
you make coffee, you have got A few beans and turn them into
3:51
coffee grinds and then you add hot water.
3:55
The coffee grinds. You filter out the grinds and
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then you have coffee, right? Like that's, that's how you make
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coffee. Well if you're a cowboy, you
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know, following some heard somewhere and you know sit my
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little fire every night, you're not exactly bringing you along
4:12
your Keurig. I'm plugging it into the wall
4:16
and the pastor, or the desert, or the heck, you are, because
4:20
there's no plug and there's no Keurig if that wasn't clear.
4:24
And so you know, how do you make coffee and And it's actually
4:30
pretty simple because you really just have to add the grounds to
4:32
the water and then filter out the grounds, right?
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And so so so how do you do that? Well, first of all, you just get
4:37
grounds rather than getting beans and then grinding them.
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That's how a large portion of the world did it.
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For a very, very long time, you know, your can a Maxwell House
4:49
or whatever, whatever the brand was back.
4:51
Then I'm in. So yeah, you're using using
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pre-ground coffee. First of all, and then you're
4:56
dumping it into your mug, your Tin Cup or whatever it is, you
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have out there on the trail and then you're adding hot water and
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because you're a cowboy, you don't have a filter and you're
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not bothering with anything else.
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You just drink it just like that with the grinds in it still
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write it so you can make it a little fancier by just using a
5:18
spoon or you know, comment just scraping the the grounds off the
5:22
top that are floating on the top mostly But that's that's my
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understanding of cowboy coffee. Is you just, you just don't
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bother filtering it and I think, you know, most people would use
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a spoon to take the grounds that are floating off the top.
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And you know, we talked before in an episode many, many
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episodes ago about coffee cupping which is also unfiltered
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and basically you're you know, putting grounds in the bottom of
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a cup. You're adding hot water.
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Some of the grounds float to the top and create kind of a crust
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and then you A break the crust, skim the grounds off the top,
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and then you can slurp the coffee off the top with your
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spoon, but you can also just pick that cup up.
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You know, technically, you can just pick it up and just sip off
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the top and, you know, any of the floating grounds, you've
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spooned off and the grounds of settled to the bottom are on the
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bottom. So you're not really going to
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get any grounds in your mouth until you get close to the
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bottom. As long as you're not moving the
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cup around a lot. Yeah, that's so funny we because
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we look at Cupping is kind of like this really kind of special
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like you're tasting and it's has the potential to be pretentious.
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It's not always pretentious but it's certainly considered
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something you do. If you're into craft coffee
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searching for flavors and that sort of thing and it at its
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core, it's essentially the same as somebody who's out working.
6:45
Just want some coffee in the morning.
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Putting some hot water, hot water in their coffee.
6:50
Yeah. Which I think is fantastic.
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Was there ever a point where we think?
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Ink Cowboys were more workers or whoever's making this Cowboy
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Coffee. We're grinding their coffee
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instead of buying pre-ground, when did pre-ground coffee
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become a thing? It was like the 1950s.
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Right? 30.
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So I think so. And you know, early coffee
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grinders are our hand coffee grinders that are fairly
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portable. That being said, I mean you
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don't exactly have room for a lot of luggage with your cowboy
7:18
job. I do remember doing some reading
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at one point about like Napoleon, Anak era Naval
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Expeditions. Naval naval ships where the,
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some the officer class on the ships would have coffee roasting
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and grinding equipment on. So if you're, you know, on a on
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a trip, around the going from England or France, or whatever,
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over into the Pacific Ocean and going down and around South
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America. You know, you might be landing
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in some ports that might be growing some of those Those
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early crops of of coffee and you can buy a sack of green coffee
7:58
beans. That might be, might be nice to
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roast as your, you're sailing around the world.
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The age of sail would be hand grinding and him roasting, so
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you have a roaster that use a drum over a fire and you're
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turning it by hand to keep it rotating.
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You don't have the air flow that we have in Roasters these days,
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but that's basically how, how our contemporary Roasters work.
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And I think at John, Coffee Roasters up in Mira Mesa.
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They used to have, I don't know if they still have that.
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They have a small hand roaster, I'm just on display which is
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basically that same style of roaster as has been around
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since, you know, 1800 or whatever probably longer than
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that because at its most basic, that's that's what it is.
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But a hand grinder is is very similar.
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You have these two kind of Mill Wheels is to grinding discs and
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you just turn them by hand. You don't need it to be all
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electrified, you don't need to have A high precision machine
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work. You know, obviously, where we've
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made advances and hopefully our coffee grinding and Brewing is
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better than it was then. But, yeah, I mean, there were
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people that were grinding by hand, you know, fresh to order
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Beyond just the pre-ground stuff for longer than pre-ground has
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been available. Let's kind of bring this into
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the Modern Age, obviously horses still exist and Cowboys still
9:23
exist. But I would say we're not in a
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period where people are commonly riding horses.
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Just as part of their everyday life we've replaced horses with
9:32
cars and transport and in your case which we talked about last
9:36
week bicycles so let's just hypothetically say that you are
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going to take a day off of work. I've known it to happen and you
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are going to ride out to a campsite somewhere and spend the
9:48
night and wake up and have a cup of coffee out in the woods.
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What advice would you have for somebody who wants to to make a
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great cup of coffee today? That might be a form, an updated
10:01
form of cowboy coffee or might make take that cowboy coffee and
10:05
turn it into a great cup of craft coffee.
10:08
Well I mean I love that because there's there's all kinds of
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ways to make coffee, you know, it's sort of a minimalist
10:15
approach and some of them are kind of kind of fun.
10:20
You know, it can require all kinds of different levels of
10:23
equipment or Preparation, but, you know, always break it down
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to that simple grounds, hot water, remove grounds or at
10:31
least. Make sure you're not drinking
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too many of them, whether you're removing it from the top of the
10:35
spoon and then just drinking above the grounds that have
10:37
settled or whether you're using a paper or a metal filter to
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fully remove as many grounds as you can.
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You know, a French press is a pretty basic straightforward,
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simple, coffee brewer. The most people are familiar
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with and the idea is, you know, that you add your grounds and
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hot water in one large vessel. And then you have this kind of
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metal filter on, on a, on a rod that you push all the grounds to
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the bottom, so that you can pour the coffee off the top.
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And the middle filter does allow some smaller particles some
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fines to get through. And so there's a bit more
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texture to your coffee in the coffee.
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Might not be as perfectly. Is it would otherwise because
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those smaller particles are going to continue to extract.
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But that being said, you can have great french press coffee
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and really enjoy it. And, you know, one of the
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beauties of camping is that sometimes a mediocre product.
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When you're out in the wilderness, can taste truly
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exceptional, because of your deprivation.
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And so I think French Press is kind of a go-to for a lot of
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people for camping situations. You know, the trouble is then
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cleaning out the grounds out of your French Press.
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You know, you kind of Of bang them out on the ground, over the
11:46
campfire or whatever it is that you're doing.
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But there's always gonna be some residue that then you have to
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rinse out and it's not too hard but you know, it still requires
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some some rinsing and some some water.
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There's a really fun obscure way of brewing coffee.
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That is kind of relevant to this whole Camp coffee discussion
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that I really love. Have you ever heard of Swedish
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coffee? I have not.
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I might have but I don't. I'm not.
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I can't recall it. Okay.
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So first One count was performed in a novel and I had to look it
12:17
up and figure it out because I've never really heard it in
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any of my me. My coffee experience, but I
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actually tried it and it does actually work.
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There's no filter involved, but you get coffee that has almost
12:30
no grounds in it. And what you do is you crack an
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egg and you separate out the white from the yolk.
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And then you mix your coffee grounds in with the egg white.
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And then you put that into your water and boil it.
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And when you've, you know how to hot or boiling for long enough,
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you know, a couple minutes, you turn off the heat and take it
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off the fire. Whatever it is you're doing, and
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then you add a little bit of cold water.
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And what will happen is the grounds and egg white mixture
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will settle to the bottom. And then you can pour coffee off
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the top. Whoa.
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And so this is a way of using an egg white has as a binding agent
13:13
to keep all the grounds together, so that then when they
13:16
settle you, You can filter it with the egg white basically
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doesn't the egg white, leave, a sort of flavor or taint.
13:24
The coffee though, I'm in slightly, but you know, I mean,
13:30
egg whites. Pretty.
13:31
Pretty neutral doesn't have a ton of flavor to it.
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So, I mean, am I going to be competing at the, you know, us
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Brewers come back up with this this recipe.
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No. But is it a viable way of
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separating out your ground? If you're for instance camping,
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absolutely, you know. Oh I brought an extra egg.
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I might as well use it to brew coffee since I forgot the
13:55
Brewer. You know, when I go camping I
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like to use my arrow press Arrow.
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Press is very popular for camping but it's not great for
14:02
lots of people, it's good for one or two people, you know?
14:05
And if you're willing to put in the work in three or four, but
14:08
they do press, you know, Works sort of like a French press for.
14:11
It's an immersion Brewer. You're mixing the coffee in the
14:13
water together. And then you have this kind of
14:15
plastic tube that you're able to push.
14:17
Push the liquid coffee out through a paper filter and you
14:22
know, press amusingly enough is actually made by the same maker
14:26
as the arrow. B, a frisbee the Frisbee with
14:29
that's like just the disc with a hole in the center a row b.
14:32
Is that company and they make the Aeropress which was kind of
14:36
fun, not really any point to that but it's just kind of cool
14:39
to know where they looking for something to use that little the
14:42
circle, they cut out of the middle for I think that might
14:45
have been it that might have been, I'm not really sure but
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it's just a little fun. Fun fact about that.
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You know another popular Camp Brewer is going to be Moka pot.
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You know, sometimes called an Italian espresso machine or you
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have a chamber below that has the water.
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There's like a little metal rod that goes up into the upper
15:03
chamber. And so as the coffee boy, as the
15:05
water boils, it boils up through the metal rod and pushes through
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the coffee grounds and then wraps up and over those coffee
15:13
grounds. A little metal filter and drops
15:17
into the upper chamber where you can then pour it off and that's
15:21
a great cop Camp Brewer because, you know, it's kind of compact,
15:24
it's not a ton of mess. There's a fun, fun fact about
15:28
the Moka pot as well. It's been popularized by the
15:31
company bialetti Italian company and when the patriarch of the BL
15:38
Eddie company. Mr. Be letting himself passed
15:40
away a couple years ago. He wanted to be cremated and he
15:44
wanted to His Ashes to be interred in a giant Moka pot.
15:50
So next time you're drinking out of your Italian espresso,
15:52
machine know that there is a extra large, one out there in
15:55
the world full of Human remains, mr.
16:00
Bialetti mr. Beale had himself, and I can't
16:04
mention them without telling that story we've talked a dozen
16:09
times on the show about fresh grinding, your coffee fresh and
16:14
how that impacts the flavor and a positive way.
16:17
And you mentioned earlier, obviously, like, with Cowboy
16:20
Coffee, they were probably grinding it beforehand or they
16:23
weren't grinding it, you know, on the back of the horse there,
16:27
But if I were to go camping which I am and in about a month,
16:30
I'm taking the show on the road for a bit, I'll be camping kind
16:32
of across the west and into the Midwest.
16:36
I would imagine that I want to be grinding my coffee along the
16:39
way, and I do have a hand grinder that I've used and
16:43
honestly like the repetitive motion of it hurts my shoulder
16:46
just to think about it. But are the same rules for
16:51
Grinders, electric Grinders that you might use in the shop or at
16:54
home, do they apply to hand Grinders or are there
16:58
variations? I mean Burr grinder versus a
17:01
flat grinder. I mean what what is available to
17:04
me? Or what would you recommend?
17:06
Perhaps too. If I really want to get the best
17:08
cup of coffee, I can deprivation aside.
17:13
Well you know, you and I did that study a number of years ago
17:16
on on hand Grinders and it wasn't quite as thorough as our
17:20
study on. We did electric home providers.
17:23
We did we tested for Grinders against each other?
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I don't remember this at all. We did a particle distribution.
17:31
Was this one of those things that you did it and you were
17:33
really excited and you didn't notice that I had left.
17:37
Actually, you got paid to do this and you recruited me as
17:40
your expert and I'm sure you remember, but we tested for hand
17:46
Grinders against each other all in kind of a budget range
17:49
because the people who are paying, you didn't have a huge
17:52
budget, but they had enough of a budget that they bought for
17:55
grinders for us to test. And what's funny is that one of
17:59
the Grinders that did really well?
18:00
The one that we kind of really liked is not very well regarded
18:04
in the coffee world. With that being said, you know,
18:08
I think it is kind of weirdly decent and it's incredibly
18:11
cheap, it's like $25 or something like that.
18:13
The Java press hand grinder. I think a lot of its problem
18:17
because I've owned one for a while now.
18:19
I think I actually have a second one now because I think I gave
18:21
one away. We're all said, broke it or
18:25
something, but, but they're not very sturdy.
18:28
You know, they're, they're sturdy enough for a couple of
18:30
years but they're they're definitely slap together a
18:33
little bit and there's definitely some things that can
18:34
go wrong with them. Being said, $25 or twenty
18:38
dollars or whatever it is for an actual Burr.
18:41
Grinder is is pretty great. It's not a better deal out there
18:45
for getting halfway. Decent coffee, the longer I have
18:48
my drive oppressed grinder. The more I found flaws with it
18:53
but you know we tested a number of Grinders against each other.
18:55
You know. And most hand Grinders are going
18:58
to be a conical Burr because it saves space.
19:02
And as I said in one of our previous episodes, you know, I
19:05
don't have any A real preference between a conical or a flat
19:08
Burke grinding system. I tend to have more flat Burr
19:12
Grinders but not because I essentially like them more in
19:17
principle just because that / to those particular Grinders are
19:20
the Grinders that I wanted. I'm not because they were
19:23
flapper, but just because the overall grinder itself was very
19:27
good. I do have to hand Grinders now,
19:30
myself, they're both conical Burr.
19:32
Of course, like most most hand Grinders are, I have a Java
19:34
press, which is It for, you know, any kind of like travel
19:40
where I'm I'm camping. It's great for because, you
19:43
know, if I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to preserve my
19:47
nice hand grinder, quite as nice, a very nice hand grinder
19:49
have a common Dante, which is, you know, goes for over $300.
19:53
Retail and the grime quality is very, very good, and it's very
19:58
nice to use a nicer hand grinder.
20:00
The kind of the feel of it in your hands, the ergonomics of it
20:04
are more dialed in. You kind of have to put a little
20:06
Bit more muscle, not necessarily but my, but you kind of to work
20:10
for it a little bit more for a cheaper hand grinder, the ha
20:13
Rios curtain. The Java press even the poor
20:16
Lex, which is a pretty nice hand grinder.
20:18
That's very similar to the Java. Press requires a little bit more
20:22
effort to get your Good Grounds out of rows.
20:25
If you get something like the orphan, espresso Lido, or the
20:29
knock are grind or the commandant a, these are all kind
20:33
of higher-end. Hand Grinders that Are much more
20:37
pleasant to use and create, you know, a really nice particle
20:41
physicist consistency. So, you know, I just traveled
20:44
back East to couple months ago and I was there for a week and I
20:48
brought my commandant a hand grinder and an arrow press.
20:52
And the coffee, I was making for myself every day was phenomenal.
20:55
I mean, cuz I use my own beans but you know, it's, it's
21:01
possible with with tools like that to get coffee by the side
21:04
of a campfire. That's you know, on a similar
21:08
quality as you could get at home in your kitchen and you know,
21:12
you can invest in those tools and they do, they work really
21:15
well. Whether you're using an arrow
21:17
press or a French press or you know, some kind of pour over,
21:20
you can use that camp as well. You mention the price points of
21:28
that commandant, versus that, the Java press and I just
21:32
Googled it. The Java press is actually 30
21:34
dollars now. So it's 10 times more expensive
21:37
to buy the commandant and the Java press.
21:40
Do you think those cups of coffee are 10 times better?
21:46
Arguably arguably. Okay.
21:50
I mean again that deprivation Factor, you know, matters your
21:55
own coffee, connoisseur. Shit matters.
21:57
You know like how well are you brewing?
21:59
Your average cup of coffee anyway because if you're kind of
22:03
living in mediocrity then the difference between Like
22:09
potentially great mediocrity and potentially kind of crappy
22:13
mediocrity is it's all still kind of a mediocrity, right?
22:15
If you're using not a great Bean or if you're not paying super
22:19
close attention to timing or ratio very regularly than, you
22:23
know, the grinder isn't going to save you.
22:25
It's not going to fix those other problems.
22:28
If you get a really crappy bean and you brew it with a really
22:31
good grinder. It might actually tastes worse
22:33
than these recruit grind, it with a really shitty grinder,
22:37
because You know, it's not really meant to be extracted
22:41
perfectly. It's it's a bad product but
22:44
generally. Yes.
22:45
I mean, you got a good grinder, it's going to taste a lot
22:46
better. I'm not coming down today makes
22:49
as good a grinds as you know, any of the very very nice
22:54
Grinders. I have in my shop that are
22:56
commercial and cost you know? Four figures at least.
23:01
So, again, like 10 times more expensive than the commandant,
23:04
a, but I can't grind nearly as much coffee in the commandant a,
23:08
as I can in one of those. So, you know, I'm looking at
23:12
kind of setting up a more easy camp, set up for myself, and
23:17
thought of taking something like the Java press, and bringing
23:22
along, maybe something a little bit nicer, or sturdier than the
23:24
Java press, but not quite as nice as my commandant.
23:27
A, then bringing along a A cordless electric drill.
23:32
And instead of cranking that Crank by hand attaching my drill
23:37
to the grinder, and then just pulling the trigger on that
23:40
drill. Will turn my hand grinder into
23:43
an electric grinder, and save myself.
23:45
A lot of the trouble that being said, the shaft that connects
23:50
the hand crank to the Burr, is not really meant to stand up to
23:57
the power of an electric drill, the Java press definitely.
24:01
Not meant for that. And I'm sure I would break the
24:03
Java press pretty quickly. Become a nun, to might be able
24:07
to handle it a little bit longer, but I also don't want to
24:10
risk my really nice commandant a handle it for at least a little
24:15
bit longer. So you know, I have a friend who
24:18
has a commandant a and he wanted to season the birds.
24:21
You know when you get brand-new a brand-new grinder or brand-new
24:24
burs you know the edges of the metal are very sharp and you
24:28
kind of know that that's going to wear down a little bit and
24:31
And so, you know, there's some value to running a bunch of
24:35
coffee through it first before you really start using the
24:37
grinder for yourself. And so he got, you know, a
24:41
couple bags of some, you know, whatever coffee and he hooked up
24:45
his commandant a to his drill and he sat on his porch and
24:49
ground six pounds of coffee with an electric drill through his
24:52
hand grinder, which I am never going to do, all right, that
24:55
sounds awful to me, and I would be terrified to damage the
25:00
grinder, but he It and is grinder.
25:02
Still working, great least. I think it is.
25:04
I generally trust him with most coffee things and so that is an
25:08
option. It's not one that I'm going to
25:10
take my grinder. I would be remiss if I didn't
25:14
address this since we're kind of talking about coffee outside,
25:17
but there's a trend now, tea bag style coffee or single-use
25:23
coffee where you can single-use pour over where you get kind of
25:27
coffee and like a little tea bag type thing, you put it over your
25:30
cup, it's already pre-ground. You pour hot water over it, or
25:33
even actual tea bags or your kind of dunking your water, just
25:36
the way you would have tea bag. Any thoughts, or just reflection
25:39
on that as we kind of close out today?
25:42
Sure, you know, at its core. There's there's, there's an
25:46
issue with coffee and a tea bag or one of those things that
25:51
that's problematic, but not necessarily going to ruin
25:57
everything. And the issue is that, when
26:00
we're brewing coffee, we want the water and the coffee to
26:04
interact sort of equally, right. We want, we want all the water
26:07
to interact with all the coffee and practically that doesn't
26:11
really ever quite happen. We're talking about a pour-over
26:15
or a shot of espresso or even a batch Brew.
26:19
The water as it flows through the bed of coffee is going to
26:23
want to find the path of least resistance.
26:26
And when we talk about any of those Brewing methods, we call
26:29
it channeling. So if the coffee is compacted in
26:34
most of it but not compacted for part of it, the water is
26:39
generally going to want to find that not compacted part and flow
26:42
through it. And then think about it kind of
26:44
like your if you look at a cross-section of it, you're
26:46
thinking about it kind of like a ant farm.
26:48
ERM right? It's the ants kind of make this
26:50
little little Trail down through it.
26:52
Well, the water likes to find that little Trail.
26:55
Not that there's ants in your coffee grounds.
26:57
I hope that didn't confuse anyone.
27:01
That's the water wants to find its path of least resistance.
27:04
And just like that when you have a tea bag, full of coffee
27:07
grounds, the grounds are at the center of the tea bag.
27:12
It's going to be harder for the water to interact with those
27:16
grounds, as it is, for the water to interact with the grounds, on
27:20
the edges of the tea bag. So you're always going to be
27:23
walking into this potential for uneven, extraction, where you're
27:29
going to be under extracting, the coffee grounds or the center
27:31
of the tea bag and well, extracting where maybe over
27:35
extracting the grounds, from the edges of the tea bag.
27:38
So when we break it down kind of scientifically and we're
27:42
thinking about it as a problem, we can see that it has this.
27:45
This issue that being said, there are companies out there
27:49
that make very good coffee and that are putting them into tea
27:52
bags. We generally like to trust a
27:56
company that has, really good coffee with some of the things
27:58
that they do, right? So we talked in some of our
28:01
other episodes or in some things about, you know, there has to be
28:04
a certain level of trust between the consumer you and who you're
28:08
buying. In the coffee from and making
28:09
sure they're making like ethical decisions, right?
28:13
And so, like, like me as a coffee roaster, I have to be,
28:16
you know, have some sort of level of confidence that the
28:18
Importer that I'm working with has some sort of Ethics to their
28:21
buying and so on and so forth. Well, if we're trusting our
28:25
coffee shop or a coffee roaster or importer or whatever it is
28:29
with these with these ethics with these other aspects.
28:31
Well, we have to trust them with other things as well.
28:35
And so, if I have a coffee The Roaster, that's providing me
28:40
with a tea bag coffee. And I know that it has this sort
28:45
of inherent issue. Well, what levels of quality
28:49
control has that roaster done on those tea bags, you know,
28:54
they're not just putting their grounds into that tea bag and
28:57
then saying good luck suckers and I mean, maybe some of them
29:01
are and that's that's the problem, is that maybe some of
29:04
them are. But most of these Coffee
29:08
Roasters, if they've established a reputation for having good
29:11
coffee. In the first place, our quality,
29:14
controlling their product Beyond just putting grounds in.
29:17
A bag and trusting that it's going to be good enough for Joe
29:21
schmuck out on the trail. What they're doing is they're
29:25
having their team of professional coffee.
29:27
Tasters. You know, the team that's
29:29
selected these copies in the first place and they're, they're
29:32
actually Brewing these tea bags and verifying that they think
29:35
it's good enough to serve and represent their company.
29:38
Well, does that ensure you're going to get a really amazing
29:43
cup of coffee with a tea bag? No, it does not.
29:46
Could you get a better cup of coffee?
29:47
The some other way, probably yes.
29:50
But if you see a company that you like and you trust
29:54
providing, you know, a product like that it's probably worth at
29:57
least giving a try to and seeing whether you like it because at
30:00
the end of the day, no matter what kind of tasting we're
30:03
doing, whether it's on the trail with French press or pour-over
30:07
or Cowboy coffee or Swedish coffee, or cuttings or dark
30:11
roast or medium. Roast or light Rose.
30:12
Wherever you are always matters. Did you like it?
30:16
So, if you get an instant coffee or a tea bag or, you know,
30:21
whatever it is, a collapsible disposable pour over device, and
30:25
they make those that you attach to the top of your company, for
30:28
over water, through them, and it has pre-ground coffee in it.
30:31
If you like it, that's what matters.
30:33
You know, that's what matters. At the end of the day.
30:35
It doesn't matter if I like it or if Ryan likes it, it just,
30:38
it's not as if you liked it. And so, it's worth giving a try
30:41
to, if a company that you like, is providing something like
30:45
that, you know, I know, My friends over at Nostalgia coffee
30:49
have Brew bags and they're very proud of them and I think that
30:51
that's great, you know, because they have some amazing people
30:55
working for them. And if they have decided that
30:57
that is a good example of their product, and that's a good
31:00
example of coffee, then it's worth trying.
31:04
It doesn't matter if I do, or don't like it matters.
31:07
If you like, because I'm going to be taking my Aeropress out
31:11
there, with my commandant, a, or my Java press, and maybe an
31:14
electric drill, you know, who knows what Doing is my problem
31:18
and I'm going to serve it. I'm gonna up to myself and I'm
31:20
going to like it hopefully and maybe it's one of those
31:22
Nostalgia tea bags or, you know, from, I think Onyx has them.
31:26
You know, there's all kinds of companies out there that do that
31:28
sort of thing. And so, yeah, if they think it's
31:32
worth serving, you probably should give it a try, if you're
31:36
interested. So it doesn't really matter what
31:38
the physics of it say. It matters that the fact that
31:41
these people with Incredible pallets have decided that it's
31:44
worth worth presenting to That's a some good advice.
31:49
I've tried several of the different brands and some of
31:51
them, I liked more than others, some of them taste like instant
31:55
where they clearly weren't, you know, weren't putting in the
31:58
effort, but some of them I thought.
31:59
Wow, this is actually pretty good.
32:01
I ran out of coffee one day here at the house, and I realized I
32:04
had one of these single servings from Maria coffee.
32:09
Oh no. My company here in Southern
32:10
California. And, and I was, I was really
32:14
pleasantly surprised like, even, you know, drinking it at No
32:18
deprivation. But it was just a lovely cup of
32:21
coffee that I had in the morning.
32:22
And so I definitely think they're, I think we're still in
32:25
the beginning phases of that Trend.
32:27
And so there's a little bit of trial and error and it'll take a
32:30
little bit of product, testing to find some brands that I, you
32:34
know, I really recommend or that I, that I trust to take with me,
32:39
but it is kind of a nice convenience as opposed to going
32:43
out and grinding every morning or doing all that if if you want
32:46
the alternative. Live well and I'll say this real
32:49
quick before you wrap it up, is that using your Keurig to
32:54
provide hot water to make a brew bag?
32:58
Is probably less wasteful and probably tastes better than
33:01
using your Keurig to brew occurring pod.
33:04
So you can do it at home too better than a Keurig.
33:10
I feel like I should get you a t-shirt that says that with two
33:14
thumbs up on it better than I can, you've been very kind to
33:19
spend time with us again this season and I'm going to make you
33:21
do it, probably again at some point soon, but you've also been
33:26
sharing a little bit more about yourself because I've been
33:28
making Can you do it? And so I've got one more round
33:31
of Rapid Fire questions for you and then I won't make you do it
33:34
ever again. I should make you do some of
33:37
these sometime. I'm right, you Willis?
33:39
Well, if you ever did any prep for the show then I would.
33:45
So here we go. Are you ready?
33:47
I'm ready. alright, Grateful Dead or fish, fish book version
33:53
or movie version book, Sunsets, or sunrises.
33:59
Sunrise. Roller skates are roller blades
34:03
blades. New Yorker, New Jersey, New
34:06
York. Who's got the best beard in this
34:12
video? Chat, you do?
34:15
You do finally took me three tries to get you to say
34:21
something nice about my beard. I've been working so hard to
34:23
keep it shaped and appropriate. I see, you're writing over.
34:27
There, are you writing rapid-fire questions for me?
34:29
Is that what's happening? I'm trying, you know, I'm
34:31
trying, you know I got a couple But I don't think I should
34:35
really be asking you boxers or briefs on the are, you know.
34:38
So we'll have to have to come up with some other ones.
34:42
I got three for you right now. You ready?
34:45
I'm ready. All right, mutton chops or
34:48
mustache, mustache burger or steak.
34:55
Vegetarian burger, beets or Park.
35:01
Park. You are terrible at this.
35:03
That was not rapid fire at all. You sat in, you rolled your eyes
35:07
for every one of them. I did not roll my eyes, even
35:10
one. You looked up.
35:11
You look right? You look left.
35:13
You're lying. You threw me with the burger
35:15
State question. I've been a vegetarian or, you
35:18
know, close to vegan estate since.
35:21
Man, I can't even think 10 years.
35:23
It's been a long time. Nixon even well veggie burger.
35:30
So burger then there you go. Well I mean well I think about
35:34
it all I was trying to trying to remember if there was a vegan
35:38
steak option I don't honestly know if they're more, haven't
35:42
had like a. I haven't seen any impossible
35:46
fillets yet but maybe I'm sure it's on the horizon.
35:51
Chris, I always love spending time with you and chatting and
35:55
Thanks man, appreciate it, I appreciate you, appreciate you
35:58
more when you do better with your questions next time.
36:03
See how the table turns you prepare some rapid fire
36:07
questions and I will answer them all.
36:08
Honestly, it's not that I don't want to answer them quickly.
36:12
It's just my brain only works so fast in the morning.
36:16
This is the issues we had with you as an employee.
36:22
We walked right into it. Was I going to say to recap a
36:33
hand, grinder can really improve your ability to make a fresh cup
36:36
of coffee at Camp. Hi legitimately don't recall
36:40
ever reviewing hand Grinders with Chris, I'm not saying it
36:43
didn't happen. I'm just saying, I don't
36:45
remember it. I also have the Java press,
36:47
which I saw retailing for about 40 bucks now, I bought it at 30
36:51
on sale, it has been a great grinder for the price and I
36:54
haven't had the same durability issues that Chris has.
36:57
I may not have the same expectations either.
37:00
The commandant a is too expensive for me at this point
37:02
in my coffee Journey, but I'm hoping that maybe Chris will let
37:06
me borrow his. If you do get a hand grinder, I
37:09
will warn you that it's great for one to two coffees.
37:13
After that, make sure you've really warmed up, that shoulder,
37:16
you don't want to tear a rotator cuff hand.
37:18
Grinding gives you a very Ago, understanding of the difference
37:21
in grind. Finest, riding for a pour over
37:24
coffee will take you much longer than grinding a course French
37:28
Press grind as for Chris's Swedish coffee story, I found a
37:32
lot of information about a Swedish egg coffee drink.
37:35
That is still pretty popular, especially in the northern
37:37
Minnesota region of the Midwest. I grew up just to the east in
37:41
Wisconsin, but I've never heard of it.
37:43
Most of the examples, I found use the egg to add texture and
37:46
flavor and not just as Chris said as a binder for the Grinds.
37:51
There are all kinds of Legends about the origin of this egg
37:54
coffee cocktail, which involves boiling the water with a beaten
37:57
egg. And course coffee grinds Blended
38:00
in then, adding a cup of cold water and letting it settle for
38:03
about 10 minutes. In some cases, it was an
38:06
entreprise in hotel, EA who was running out of coffee?
38:08
But flush with eggs and in others, it is Scandinavian
38:12
immigrants. Making a new life in a new land
38:14
that unfortunately didn't have coffee worth a shit either way.
38:18
It sounds interesting. So I'm going to ask some
38:21
minnesotans about it when I pass through later this summer
38:23
camping. And while I'm out camping I'll
38:26
probably make a few cups of coffee, but I'll also be hauling
38:30
some single used craft coffees. I've had some really enjoyable
38:33
ones and some really bad ones. I prefer the pore over versions
38:37
to the T big versions. If for no other reason then it
38:41
feels more. Like the Zen meditation, I
38:43
perform at home. But without the need to grind
38:46
taking a chance on a single serving coffee is really about
38:49
trust. Between the consumer and the
38:51
producer I trust steady state and Mariah to provide a good
38:55
product. Therefore, I'm willing to take a
38:58
chance on something new that may not be what I would normally
39:01
look for. Finally, in the end drink what
39:04
you like. But take a moment to consider
39:07
the long and winding path. Those coffee beans took, and how
39:10
many had a hand in making that moment possible.
39:14
Unlike water, which wants to find the path of least
39:16
resistance. Sometimes it seems coffee
39:19
prefers. The path of Of most resistance.
39:22
I know some people like that, too.
39:24
If you have questions you'd like answered on a future coffee
39:27
smarter episode, send them to the show on Instagram at roast
39:30
West Coast, and if you want to see what coffees Chris is
39:34
serving a coffee cycle, had to Coffee cycle roasting.com or
39:38
follow the shop on Instagram at Coffee.
39:40
Cycle roasting, I'll be back next week with an interview with
39:44
care and Eland. She is an artist who has made a
39:46
career out of painting with coffee and beer.
39:49
You can stream the Rose to West Coast coffee podcast on any
39:53
major podcast platform or make sure you never miss one by
39:57
subscribing to the newsletter at roast westcoast.com.
40:01
The podcast is always free but I definitely appreciate all of you
40:05
who have chosen the optional paid subscription.
40:08
You're the reason that we can put this show out every single
40:10
week, paid subscribers can also check out the new column, the
40:13
bean Journal which details what and where I'm drinking coffee.
40:17
Thank you for listening to the show today and To my industry
40:20
Partners, ignite Coffee Company. Most your coffee companies
40:23
steady-state coffee, roasting coffee cycle, roasting Camp
40:27
Coffee Company. First light, whiskey, zoom bar,
40:29
coffee and tea Maria coffee, Cape Horn coffee, importers and
40:33
Cafe lechera. This episode of the roast West
40:36
Coast coffee podcast is was has been written produced and
40:39
recorded by me Ryan woulld, and to every Joe schmuck out on the
40:43
trail that I meet this summer. Cheers.
40:45
I hope we can host a mug of coffee together for the rest of
40:48
you. I hope, This show is found you
40:50
happy healthy and with at least enough sanity and coffee to make
40:54
it through the day. And please always tip your
40:57
Baristas and be sure to drink good coffee.
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