Latest / Babes, how did you get here / 20 Years in War Zones: Timor, Syria, Haiti, Sudan — He Tells It All

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20 Years in War Zones: Timor, Syria, Haiti, Sudan — He Tells It All · Babes, how did you get here

• 0:00
  I remember I just came back from East Timor. I was back in New Zealand and my boss said to me,
• 0:06
  listen, there's an opportunity for you to be based in the Middle East, which is Damascus, Lebanon,
• 0:12
  Syria. At that time, there was like suicide bombing, was at its peak. And I'm like,
• 0:18
  what do I do here? And then my mother's quite religious. I said to you know what do you think
• 0:25
  about this? You know, it's dangerous over the year and I was going, yeah, but around the
• 0:28
  remember, you spoke to about these opportunities, you should take the opportunity of what you
• 0:32
  have, it's good to see it, it's true, but you know, it's quite dangerous. And I said, oh yeah,
• 0:36
  I think I should take the opportunity. And I look back now when I joined the Air Force,
• 0:44
  the first, the first night, the first night of the Air Force.
• 0:46
  So, authoritarian dictatorship, millions of people disappeared, tortured, secret prisons.
• 0:56
  In Syria, the first trials are beginning of allies and associates, a former president by
• 1:02
  sure. It is in court, but going in there and then just like,
• 1:07
  what I remember is I went through Russian roulette and then I ended up, because I don't
• 1:12
  have any questions, any cars going out, the wrong exit. So then I had to turn around to go back
• 1:20
  to the right place. So as I turned around, I blocked the traffic. So as I turned around,
• 1:27
  cars were coming, both sides and they took, but they're not aggressive. Okay. And so I basically
• 1:33
  blocked the road, just arrived and I'm in uniform. Then this guy comes out of nowhere in uniform
• 1:40
  and he says, hey, that's, you need to wind it down. I'm thinking, I've been briefed on, you know,
• 1:46
  security, you know, so I wind up when I down a little bit. Okay. Just like this. I'm down a bit
• 1:51
  morning. I wind up a bit more and I'm like, what do I do? What's my exit strategy? I'm pretty
• 1:56
  sure at the time I didn't have any families. Okay. And then he goes, no, no, why not? So I wind
• 2:01
  it all the way down and then he reaches into his pocket and he pulls out.
• 2:05
  John aka JC in the military, Kiwi in the UN describes himself as a simple Maori boy from New Zealand
• 2:14
  whose life has taken him around the world. He has worked everywhere from a tent in east to
• 2:20
  more to Antarctica across the Middle East and Africa. But now he's based here in Cambodia
• 2:26
  where he lives with his wife and their two daughters. With a life well lived comes
• 2:31
  adventurous stories and lessons to be learned. I want to hear it all, but first I have to ask,
• 2:36
  babes, how did you get here? By airplane. No, the moment that I was brought up in my little village
• 2:45
  and blend them with about 20,000, 22,000 people at that time, I knew that I'd be coming to Cambodia.
• 2:53
  Are you joking? Yes, I am. It's been quite a while. It's been about where you grew up first.
• 3:00
  Sure, so I'm from New Zealand and a little village in the top of the South Island,
• 3:06
  called Blenheim. So I think around the time was around 20, 25,000 people. State housing,
• 3:14
  a bit of a lower socio-economic upbringing. The neighbour's next door, nine children.
• 3:20
  Okay. The ones across the road, six children. So in the street we lived in a colder sack
• 3:25
  than an excess of 60 children. How many siblings do you have? I have three siblings.
• 3:31
  There's four children in our family and it was a close family upbringing and I really enjoyed
• 3:38
  where I was brought up. I lived my life there into school there, college, walked to school,
• 3:44
  bike to college and if you had three or four cars along the street, it was a busy day.
• 3:50
  Really? Yes, super quiet. Super quiet. In fact, I could elaborate. So, top of the South Island,
• 3:57
  we call it top of the South. There's another village or township it's called Nelson and it's about,
• 4:03
  those days was maybe an hour and a half, two hour drive. Okay. And that was the that was the
• 4:08
  place where I first saw traffic lights and they were the first town that had a franchise where we
• 4:15
  could get takeaways and that was kind of a tucking fried chicken. How old were you when you saw
• 4:19
  the traffic lights? For a good point, maybe 14. Okay. Around that age. Wow. Yes, because we used to
• 4:28
  play rugby there. So you go there and say, oh well, it's got a traffic light. Are you a
• 4:33
  country boy at heart or do you like city life? I'm a country boy, yes. I've lived in many cities
• 4:39
  but I prefer the country. It's just more at one nature. My upbringing, for a good time, we would go
• 4:48
  ealing into the rivers catching the eel with a little spear. Where I lived, what we would do
• 4:56
  is an activity. For example, we gathered all the wood at the back of everyone's houses. Then we
• 5:03
  made a sled. Okay. So we nailed the sled together. Then we all carried it up to this hill,
• 5:08
  which was nearby the houses and it was it's a dry area. So it was dry grass. Right. So we put wax
• 5:15
  on the sled and then we would go up and down the sled on the hill all afternoon. That was my
• 5:22
  upbringing. When life was simple. While life was simple. No, but life is life. It's not what you make of it.
• 5:27
  Did you always want to be in the military? No, I did not. How did you end up there?
• 5:33
  Yes, good question. So at the time, I was working in what we call a muscle factory. So it was a
• 5:40
  factory where they would process seafood. Okay. But mainly muscles destined for Japan. So
• 5:47
  funny. When you said muscle factory, I was thinking muscle like muscles on your body. Yes. No,
• 5:53
  Mule in French. Mule. So at that time, I had quite a tough boss. And she was asking me,
• 6:02
  you know, what are you going to do with yourself? And at the same time, my parents were asking,
• 6:06
  none of my family had been to university. So I had university entrance. Okay.
• 6:13
  So I was academically qualified. But my heart wasn't to go to university. And my dad said,
• 6:22
  going back to my boss, she asked me, what am I going to do? And I said, well, I'm quite happy
• 6:27
  here. We can this factory. I'm making money. There's only, there were two men because we were doing
• 6:33
  the boxing. It was a different era in those days. And the ladies would open up the muscles and
• 6:38
  then package them. We would package them. So I was snapped frozen. Okay. She said, what are you going
• 6:43
  to do? I said, I don't know. My dad's saying that I should maybe join the military, join the
• 6:49
  Air Force because we'll just down the road. The next minute, she comes up to me and she said,
• 6:54
  well, you know, the slater here, her husband's expecting you to go to the Air Force base because
• 7:00
  she told him, and he's, he teaches the recruits. Okay. So I got an afternoon at the Air Force
• 7:07
  base to see what life was like in the air force. Sure. So I was quite lucky. But I don't know
• 7:14
  because the thing that I remember is that you got really short haircuts. And I was from the
• 7:19
  air we had long hair. So I applied. And even that was a bit of a journey because you get tested
• 7:29
  at school. And then I didn't really know what I was applying for. Okay. And I didn't really know
• 7:35
  about aircraft. I thought that was for wealthy people, aircraft flying, all that sort of thing.
• 7:41
  And then after the test, I got told that I had to have interviews in Christchurch. So I had to
• 7:49
  move from my town in Blenheim to go down to Christchurch for the interview process. So I received
• 7:56
  a bus ticket. So I was really happy. I got a bus ticket. Then I got the bus ticket. I went down
• 8:02
  and then they they knew who I was because I was expected. And then they gave me a room key. So I
• 8:08
  had like my own room. I was like, wow, this is amazing. And then I went to the interview and I
• 8:16
  dressed because I played rugby first of thing rugby. My dad said, you make sure you wear a tie.
• 8:21
  Right. And you at least look good. Well, try to look good because you weren't looking so good in
• 8:27
  those days. So so at the interview panel, there would have been five people at the interview panel.
• 8:34
  And I hadn't never been interviewed before. And so they asked one person asked the question,
• 8:40
  why do I join the Air Force? And I froze. But by this point, do you actually want to join the
• 8:45
  Air Force? Because you've got the key, you have the bus ticket, you're feeling more positive,
• 8:49
  or are you still going through the motions because of the influences? I did want to join.
• 8:54
  After being exposed, I thought, yes, this is this is for me. Right. But then after the first question
• 9:00
  was posed, and I froze, I thought, I've blown it. One of the other interview panel person
• 9:07
  now said, look, just relax. It's normal to be nervous. Just be calm. We just want to know a
• 9:11
  bit about you. And so yes, I went through this process. And also they gave you a phone card. So
• 9:19
  you could ring up home after you finished. Oh, very cool. So I rang up after the interview. I
• 9:23
  said, spoke to my dad. I said, dad, listen, I didn't do it. I failed this. But it was it was good
• 9:29
  because I got it passed right into my room. And I'll get a phone card. So I'm okay to go home.
• 9:34
  It's okay. And I'll work in the muscle factory. It's so funny though, because whenever I interview
• 9:38
  people now, if you're a bit nervous to me, that's a really good thing because it means that you
• 9:43
  care. Like if you come in and there's no nerves at all, I mean that like you better be damn good
• 9:48
  to justify this like confidence that you're giving me. Or if you're nervous, I'm like, oh,
• 9:53
  maybe it's because you care. I can assure you I'm nervous.
• 10:00
  I'm just hiding it. So when you call your dad, you think you're going home?
• 10:06
  No, I do go home. You do go home. And then it was, I don't know, a few weeks after. Whatever
• 10:11
  the time period after, the slater comes in the mailbox. And then my mum says it's here and I
• 10:18
  said, mum, you open it. And she said, no, let's wait for your dad. I went, okay. And I didn't think
• 10:24
  much of it because I was confident that I had hadn't been successful. Anyway, dad came from work
• 10:33
  and then mum presented him this slater and then we're all there and he opens up the slater and he says,
• 10:40
  I'm sorry, you're joining your force. And I was like, oh, that's amazing. So I was like
• 10:46
  straight away. And then I went to see my, my boss and my colleague at work and say thank you so
• 10:52
  much. And yeah, so that was my journey to the Air Force. How old are you then?
• 10:57
  I was 17. Really? Oh, you're a barber. Yeah, I was a baby. 17. But I looked out of
• 11:03
  them for my age. It takes 17 and a half. What's the difference between time that you received
• 11:11
  the letter and that you have to start doing whatever you do in the Air Force? It was quite close
• 11:18
  because it must have been, it would have been in the third quarter of the year. And the start
• 11:25
  was in January the following year. So it wasn't that long, maybe a few months. Does New Zealand
• 11:29
  go to war and do things like? New Zealand does well in my time. Yeah. And my time
• 11:37
  went to a number of operations. So East Timor was one and it was sort of a wartime operation.
• 11:44
  Okay. There was, there's many deployments for you in operations. Okay. So peace keeping
• 11:50
  machines. Peace keeping duties. Okay. And there was a time when you would see more senior
• 11:58
  people, particularly officers that would only have say one or two medals. Okay. Because they'd
• 12:03
  served on time, but not served on operations. Okay. During the early stages of my career.
• 12:09
  So when you get signed up for the Air Force, what is the vision for how your career is going to look?
• 12:16
  That so the stream that I joined, which I wasn't overly sure about, was called the New Zealanders
• 12:25
  to forget of engineering. So this, this scheme was five years in training. And it, it
• 12:31
  until attending block courses for academic training. Because, you know, it wasn't sure about
• 12:37
  how academically un-gifted I was. So it wouldn't sell as gifted academically. But this was more
• 12:44
  hands-on. So you have a recruit course. You do this thing with basic engineering. So,
• 12:48
  so basically I joined that Air Force to as an aircraft technician. Okay. But after the first six
• 12:54
  months, I hadn't actually seen an aircraft. Yes. Could be because you do everything else, but
• 12:58
  and then one of the first courses you do to learn aircraft is you have to learn about the
• 13:02
  publications. Okay. And I remember the instructor. His nickname was Whisper and Death. Because why
• 13:08
  it's a boring subject anyway. And then when he spoke, I hope he's not listening to the podcast.
• 13:14
  It wasn't the most motivating. So, yes. So, so and then from from that course progression,
• 13:25
  then you finally get to see an aircraft. And then you work in block courses, Air Force courses,
• 13:34
  on the job training, more block courses. And then it's where you attend a training institute,
• 13:41
  a civilian training institute for a block of time. Okay. So for us it's like three months at a
• 13:47
  time. And then you end up with this civilian qualification. So in hindsight it was a very good
• 13:52
  stream to take. And then so that was five years with a return of service for three. By that
• 14:00
  stage I've been in eight years and I was on an operational unit. So I was on what was
• 14:06
  a unit which did large aircraft so that you could basically the flights were global.
• 14:13
  So on that unit I was fortunate to become reasonably not seen about technically savvy with the
• 14:25
  aircraft such that you could go on some global trips. Okay. So up until that point I hadn't been on
• 14:30
  many trips. In fact my first flight I was playing rugby and my rugby coach knew that I had not
• 14:37
  been on a flight. So he organised for the the engineer on the base to take me up on a flight.
• 14:43
  Okay. And in the same township where I was. So this was in the days of top gun. I got my green
• 14:49
  overalls. I had a green helmet so I thought I was Tom Cruise. I sat on this. It was called an
• 14:56
  air trainer and you sit side by side. So and then I'd also the pilot said that he knew us from
• 15:03
  the local town. He said where does your dad work? We can fly to that area. Oh this is cool.
• 15:10
  So I told my dad and I remember flying and we flew where he worked in the freezing works.
• 15:16
  You know the freezing works is it's where you basically kill animals to package them and it's
• 15:25
  like a butchery. Okay butchery. Yep it's not a good turn actually. It's a butchery. So I saw
• 15:30
  them in the car park and I saw it all excited and then he said so what we do now and all he did
• 15:35
  was he flipped this aircraft up. Your skin's like this. He flips it around and we were doing
• 15:41
  aerobatics. At a certain time I don't know how long it was. It felt like maybe an hour. He
• 15:48
  leveled the aircraft and he said right now you should you should fly and I could feel you know
• 15:54
  like sweat spilling up and suddenly there was a lot of perspiration and I said to him listen can I
• 16:02
  just go back and he said no no you should he not feeling well I was going no I'm not feeling
• 16:07
  that well. He said if you fly it will take your mind off and I said no thanks can you please take
• 16:12
  me back. So he took me back. So you didn't do anything. I didn't fly. I maybe held a stick for
• 16:18
  you know a minute. He dropped me off. I went into the hangar I was sick that afternoon and I was
• 16:26
  actually sick in the evening so it really put me off flying and I just went the air force.
• 16:32
  So why would I travel? Yeah that's what I was thinking at the time because I thought maybe after
• 16:39
  doing this training course I might remaster or change trades to a pilot. Right that's what I was
• 16:46
  thinking. Yeah but no put me off. Put me off flying. For how long did it put you off flying?
• 16:51
  Are you still okay with flying? Oh I'm okay with flying now. But I mean that was your first
• 16:55
  my first exposure to flying. I'm going up side on. Going up side down and down. Was that like a little
• 17:01
  initiation tactic? I was quite lucky because no one else on my course because he was not
• 17:09
  on us and of course got the opportunity to fly but I think it was just because my rugby coach
• 17:13
  who was a commanding officer knew the guy and he just looked after me. I don't know if
• 17:20
  about looking after me but allowed me to fly. So I was just going back to the training course so
• 17:27
  it was eight years of training, three return of service and then on the strategic
• 17:34
  unit for flying. So during that time I was really lucky to get some I remember three big trips.
• 17:41
  So one trip we took our prime minister at the time Jim Bulger to Thailand. Okay. And so you have
• 17:48
  all the underage, the media, the cameraman and there's two technicians on board so I'm one of
• 17:54
  those technicians. Okay. And then another trip was... So your rule is the fixed things when they go
• 17:58
  wrong? Yes. Okay. Yes. But at that time I can just comment on the time. Sure. You could help during
• 18:08
  the flight. Okay. You could help with the flight attendants. You could basically... Fill in
• 18:12
  wherever. Do what you want. Okay. Yeah. And it was really laid back. It was just a nice time.
• 18:19
  So for example there was one trip we did and I was with another colleague so I was the
• 18:25
  the mechanical technician. We have an electrical avionics and so this particular trip was taking
• 18:33
  British military personnel back to the UK. Right. But going via Australia, Singapore,
• 18:41
  Maldives to Greece and to the UK then going back the other way through... And you stop in these places.
• 18:49
  You were stopping the places but for me I get out because I have to refuel the aircraft. You
• 18:53
  stay at certain places for certain time. Then we stayed for a while in the UK and then you fly
• 18:59
  back through Canada, east coast of the US, Hawaii, Samoa, back to New Zealand. So that was just one
• 19:09
  trip. So you're there first thing in the morning, you help with the flight, you were there,
• 19:14
  putting the aircraft to bed. But after that you probably need to... After a trip like that you
• 19:19
  need to sleep for a few days. But great opportunities. Where is the best place that you've ever visited?
• 19:26
  I don't have a best place. Okay. You have a top three? So is this military or just in general? No, just in
• 19:35
  general. Okay. So I was lucky to be based in Damascus in Syria. Okay. This was 2003. Okay.
• 19:48
  And that was the first time that I had been to multiple countries by land in a day because New
• 19:54
  Zealand had to fly. Everywhere. We drove basically from... Our training was in Israel. We drove
• 20:02
  through Jordan and I was based in Damascus. Okay. And then the first... When I first arrived there was
• 20:13
  a roundabout and it was described as a Russian Relate because there'd be maybe 10 entry exits
• 20:22
  and there'd be three lanes with five lanes of traffic entering. Then cars on the inside would want
• 20:27
  to go out, cows in the out would want to go around. So it was just sort of something I wasn't used to
• 20:33
  from Blenheim. With no traffic lights. No traffic lights. But we had roundabouts. So I was with my
• 20:41
  colleague who'd picked me up and I thought it's okay. One, driving on a different side of the road.
• 20:46
  Okay. But two, at least I'll have a few days to acclimatize before I have to drive. Right. So we went
• 20:52
  to the like the operations area induction and then I saw that I was actually on duty the next day
• 21:01
  as the duty driver. I do not know how to this day, how that works. Surely you'd be there for a few
• 21:07
  days before you got duty driver. Anyway, so it was a family duty station. So the driver's job was to
• 21:14
  pick up the families, bring them to... They call this place Ismak House. So it was basically... When you
• 21:19
  see the families. So it was a family duty station. Families of other military. Yeah. So it was all
• 21:29
  the families with you. Wonderful. So you're knowing care of other people's families? Yes, wives and
• 21:35
  children. Great. Well driving in a place I don't know and in a car that's backwards and yes for
• 21:44
  all those fun things. But what I remember is I went through Russian roulette and then I ended
• 21:50
  up because I didn't want to question any cars going out the wrong exit. So then I had to turn around
• 21:57
  to go back to the right place. So as I turned around I blocked the traffic. So as I turned around
• 22:05
  cars were coming on both sides and they took but they're not aggressive. Okay. And so I basically
• 22:12
  blocked the road. Right. Just arrived. And I'm in uniform. Then this guy comes out of nowhere
• 22:17
  in uniform and he says, hey like this you need to wind a window down. Right. And I'm thinking I've
• 22:24
  been briefed on you know security you know. So I wind the window down a little bit. Okay.
• 22:28
  And he's like this one down a bit morning. I wind it a bit more and I'm like what do I do? What's my
• 22:33
  exit strategy? I'm pretty sure at the time I didn't have any families think goodness. Okay.
• 22:37
  And then he goes, no, no, wind it. So I'll wind it all the way down. And then he reaches into
• 22:41
  his pocket and he pulls out two lollipops and he gives me a lollipop. And meanwhile everyone's
• 22:48
  two to know the place is just like it's a gridlocked and he opens up his lollipop.
• 22:53
  Looks at me smiles. He's you know all his teeth are sort of messed up and I'm like you know
• 22:58
  get my lollipop puts in his mouth and I put at least miles at me and then I go shook lunges
• 23:04
  Thank you very much. Slowly he moves the traffic. No. So I could get out of the way and that was my
• 23:09
  first experience with Syrian locals. That's really sweet. Yeah it was amazing. That is really sweet.
• 23:14
  So a favourite place? Well I don't know about favourite place but that was certainly a memorable
• 23:20
  time. Yeah. And you're like the always remember those memorable times. Tell me about Antarctica
• 23:25
  because when I read about you going to Antarctica all I think of really like what is out there?
• 23:31
  It's cold. It's cold. Yes, it's very cold. How long were you there for?
• 23:38
  Yeah August, September, November, six months. I mean it's five, six months. So
• 23:45
  again it's I was just lucky. So to me a lot of the experiences I've had have been opportunities
• 23:53
  that you take. Right. But this particular opportunity I happen to be working in a position in the
• 24:01
  military where I could discuss with the people in the posting area. Okay. So I'd already made up my
• 24:09
  mind at that stage that I was going to leave the military because I wanted to do something more.
• 24:16
  And how long had you been in the military at this point? 20 years at that stage. A good stretch.
• 24:20
  Yes. So why did you want to leave? Because I had been in my opinion. I'd been fortunate that I had
• 24:30
  done everything that I wanted to do within the military. So I'd represented in sports. I'd played.
• 24:36
  I had been in operational units. I had deployed. I'd been in the military observer which was
• 24:46
  quite rare with my trade. So and then the more senior, I would be the more desk bound I saw.
• 24:53
  Because a lot of the senior positions, you're more desk bound doing policy, engineering decision.
• 24:58
  So that didn't appear. I was more interested in excitement of operations. And by then I'd
• 25:07
  travelled as well. So I sort of already had the bug. And it was funny because I applied for the UN.
• 25:14
  I was, you know, when you, there's this thing called the secret. And it's basically, it was a book.
• 25:20
  Someone described it to me later on. But it's basically if you want something so badly,
• 25:26
  you will it to happen. So someone spoke to me about that. And I remember at the time I was like,
• 25:31
  I really want to join the UN. I really want this. So going back, I went to Antarctica
• 25:39
  because I was given the opportunity because I was going to leave. And then, and then
• 25:45
  be it down there, because I was leaving, I was able to go and dedicate for a bit longer than
• 25:52
  what was you normally do. So I got to go on the first flights in Antarctica in the end of August.
• 25:59
  Which was the, it's the beginning of the summer season. They have a summer? They have a summer,
• 26:05
  where it's like 24 hours. So this particular time, it's August. It's, I'm not sorry, August is
• 26:12
  when you get the first of the light. Because in the winter, it's totally about 24 hours of dark.
• 26:18
  So when we landed, there's a, there's a window of light. So this aircraft lands. It was a C-17.
• 26:26
  And then we got out and there was this, this light. You don't see the sun. It was just on the horizon.
• 26:31
  But it's enough for the aircraft to land. Drop off fresh supplies and then it leaves. So I think I
• 26:38
  stayed at the night down there just to understand how the base worked towards the people. But I remember
• 26:44
  at that time, they call it the frisky. So all these fresh things had just come off the aircraft. So
• 26:50
  that aircraft supports the New Zealand and the, and the US Antarctic operations. So we get to
• 26:57
  the Scott base. Everything's new for me. The temperature says minus 40 something. It's freezing.
• 27:02
  Everything's freezing. Your breath is just, that just does not sound fun. You're in us 40.
• 27:08
  Your, your eyelashes stick together. Everything sticks. You get a lot of icicles in your nostrils,
• 27:14
  especially if you have hairy ones. So, so we go to the base and there's all this excitement because
• 27:21
  I have no idea. I'm just new to the base. And so what you do is you go down. They bring this container
• 27:27
  and it's called the freshies. I don't know what freshies was. And then you see these people,
• 27:33
  the staff, they've been in there all winter. One of them's like, oh my gosh, it's an avocado.
• 27:38
  Oh my gosh, there's an apple. I have a tomato because the whole time they've been having frozen
• 27:42
  food. But how long are they having frozen food for? They're there for six, six, seven months in the winter
• 27:49
  season. And so the, the main season for scientists is in the summer. And at the peak of the summer,
• 27:55
  so when, when I went down there, it's this haze of light. And then you don't deploy together until
• 28:02
  maybe October, November. Okay. And that's when all the science teams
• 28:07
  deploy. So, and you've got such a variety, yes. So, yeah. So, at this base in Antarctica,
• 28:14
  it's solely for science purposes. It's, yeah, it's for science, but then there's also
• 28:25
  you get VIP visits. So, for instance, have you heard of Sir Edmund Hillary? No.
• 28:30
  Sir Edmund Hillary was the New Zealander who first climbed Mount Everest. It's super-tensing.
• 28:36
  So, he, he also crossed the South Pole on tractor. So, he's really renowned explorer. And he's
• 28:42
  like a VIP. Right. So, he came the year before and the year after. Just a visit? Just a visit.
• 28:48
  Okay. You have composers. There was a composer there that composed music. Okay. There's writers,
• 28:54
  poets. And you're just taking care of them. So, my job was to run this facility for scientists
• 29:00
  or for people who go down here. It's part of the New Zealand Antarctic program.
• 29:05
  Wow. So, it's such a mix of people. So, you have fish exputes, under sea exputes, drilling
• 29:11
  specialists, atmospheric exputes, yes. I guess my mind, from like a hospitality background,
• 29:18
  right? Things always go wrong. There's like always something that's broken or something that
• 29:23
  needs to be fixed or supplies that need to be gotten. And I'm like, in Antarctica, you can't just
• 29:27
  like run down to a shop. Like, how do you manage facilities? So, I'm plucked out of the New Zealand
• 29:38
  military and given to the New Zealand Antarctic program for a year. The New Zealand
• 29:45
  Antarctic program has been running for a number of years. Sure. I'm not sure exactly when.
• 29:50
  And their logistics support is just amazing. Yeah. So, we were having, we would host
• 29:57
  VIP program, the chef that would work in the team and say, like, this is what the menu is.
• 30:03
  Salmon, scallops, mussels, some like, do you agree? I would not disagree. So, everything that
• 30:12
  you need. But I guess the key to it is make sure planning, meeting, if there's a shortfall.
• 30:20
  We had a meeting one day and it was a big discussion by one of the colleagues. He said, look,
• 30:26
  we've run out of coffee. And then one of the other staff said, it's just coffee, you know,
• 30:31
  what's the matter? And I said, hold on, we've got this coffee machine, which is like, I don't know,
• 30:37
  $10,000 investment. So, we need coffee. Right. So, we'll make it a priority. So, coffee comes in
• 30:44
  the next day. So, just gets flown in. Oh, because in the summer season, you have daily flights.
• 30:50
  They're okay. So, logistically in the summer season, you have regular flight schedule and the
• 30:56
  one team, you have none. Because there's no light. No light, nowhere to land. So, how do you manage
• 31:02
  in the winter season? They're self-sustained. They have to make sure they have, and it's less staff.
• 31:09
  Okay. So, we had 85 beds. But so, at its peak, we'd have over 85 people. Maybe a few people,
• 31:17
  if there's problems with weather, where people get stuck down there, whatever. But in the winter,
• 31:23
  there's maybe 10. Okay. So, it's a minimum staff. Downsized. Yes. But again, just a fantastic
• 31:30
  opportunity. I remember, you know, again, this experience with Syria, where I got the opportunity
• 31:38
  to go to one of the, the hats of the penguin scientists. So, what we do is we, at the end of the
• 31:50
  season, depending on what facilities went for structures in place. So, this particular one,
• 31:55
  we had to close the hut. So, and my job was really busy. We would fly the Italians back from
• 32:01
  their base to our base to Christchurch to go back to Italy. But they would come at maybe one
• 32:07
  o'clock in the morning. Then you'd have started, you know, seven in the morning for your normal schedule.
• 32:11
  So, there's always things on. So, at the end of the season, some of the other New Zealand staff
• 32:16
  came to supplement. Okay. And then they said, look, you need to go and to help with the team to
• 32:24
  close this hut. And I said, no, I've got this. No. What is closing a hut in there? Making
• 32:31
  shutting it, making it safe to last a season in the winter. Okay. Open it up again in the summer.
• 32:37
  So, battling the hatches. So, we went to this and up until this time, everything's frozen.
• 32:46
  Right. And then we go by helicopter. Four of us. We're land. The helicopter disappears.
• 32:52
  And then you hear this. So, it's the movement of the water. So, this part's not frozen.
• 32:58
  Okay. So, this water's not frozen. Then there's a hut. So, we do all work on the hut.
• 33:04
  And then, and I said, okay, we've done our work. I'm going to go out and watch nature.
• 33:09
  Okay. So, we're out and you've got your big jacket, everything. So, you go to the beach.
• 33:13
  And then the beach. Well, I call it a beach because it's like a beach that's frozen.
• 33:18
  It's not the beach where you go on your speedo. It's for that way.
• 33:24
  So, on the sandy shore, there was, it was the colony of Adele penguins.
• 33:33
  Okay. What's Adele penguins? So, Adele penguins are smaller penguins. Black and
• 33:37
  right, they're clumsy, but they're really cute. The most known are impra penguins.
• 33:43
  They're very tall, graceful. They can be one meter high. They have this yellow, beautiful yellow
• 33:49
  streak. So, you know, this is the colony of Adele penguins. So, I sit there and these penguins
• 33:55
  come up to you. You can, you can get personalities like an Adele penguin will look at you.
• 34:00
  He's like, like, who are you? Another one will walk past, like a bit frightened. So, you can see
• 34:05
  personalities. Then in the distance, you see these seals. Whadal seals. So, they're just swimming
• 34:12
  in the distance. And then you see, even out again, the surface of a whale. So, I'm near for like
• 34:18
  a few hours. Just watching. Just watching nature. That is incredible. It's amazing. So, again,
• 34:23
  watch your favorite place. It's no favorite place. It's just the things you get to see. The
• 34:29
  opportunities you'll get to see. I want to see some penguins. I did go to South Africa in January
• 34:36
  and forgive my ignorance, but I had no idea that there were penguins. So, I'm on my phone and I
• 34:41
  see that this lady is taking pictures with some penguins. I'm like, hold on. That's like an
• 34:46
  hour away from where I am. Tomorrow, I'm going to go see some penguins. And so, we went to
• 34:51
  Boulder's Beach. I took my girls and we had to climb over cliffs and stuff because the tide had
• 34:57
  come in. Like, clearly, I wasn't there at the right time. And so, I had to make an effort to go
• 35:01
  and see these penguins. I had one baby very scared on my back. I was like, don't worry, we've got
• 35:05
  this. And then I had another baby. I had a little bit more confidence. What age were they being?
• 35:09
  So, they had just turned four. Just turned four literally. And days before their fourth birthday.
• 35:14
  Do you know what flavor the penguins were? Flavor. What type? No. Oh, okay.
• 35:22
  There's quite a lot of... They were big. I mean, not one meter big. They're big and they're
• 35:27
  aggressive. Okay, this idea that penguins are like just these cute little things. They are coming
• 35:33
  for you. Like, heads moving, beaks open. I was like, damn. But, um, definitely worth seeing.
• 35:39
  But it was my first time that I even knew that there were penguins in South Africa. Oh, yeah. And
• 35:43
  penguins in New Zealand as well. Oh, yeah. South-East. But it just gave you another story actually. So,
• 35:50
  every year, the New Zealand team plays the American team in rugby. Okay. And we applied for the Guinness
• 35:57
  Book of Records as a southernmost international. Okay. But up until that time, New Zealand had never
• 36:02
  lost a match to the Americans in this rugby game. So, you play in the snow. You have
• 36:07
  goalposts and it's quite serious. I didn't realise it was quite so serious because I volunteered
• 36:13
  to be the coach. Okay. But we would play a bit of a tough rugby as preparation. Right. But it was quite
• 36:18
  a serious event for the Americans. Fortunately, we won. Okay. Yeah, I could go back proud. I thought
• 36:25
  you were going to say you lost. I was like, babe. I was worried. Yes. Very worried.
• 36:31
  So, you're in a tent, you said, in East to More. Yes. Do you like camping? You love nature? Yeah, I do.
• 36:39
  I do like nature in New Zealand. Right. Because we have no critters. We have no bugs. We have no
• 36:46
  bugs. Do you have no bugs? No. We have the harmless. They all went to Australia. Most of them
• 36:52
  must have at some stage, swam to Australia. We'll call about. Right. Yeah, so in comparison,
• 36:57
  we don't have crocodiles. Right. We don't have snakes. We don't have aggressive spiders.
• 37:03
  So, in Team More, in a tent, you're in a netting. Right. But, you know, netting doesn't stop a snake
• 37:13
  from climbing in. So, you sleep with your boots underneath you. But then you just, you de-sensitise
• 37:19
  after a while. You just get used to it. But I do remember we had a supply tent where we put
• 37:27
  all the logistics supplies for the aircraft. And there was a big commotion that I went in to check
• 37:33
  with my colleagues. And there was a snake that had got itself stuck in one of the... A big one.
• 37:39
  A big one. For you to hear it? No, a big one for that we saw. So, there was a big commotion. So,
• 37:45
  yeah, it was just a bit of a reality check. But when you deploy military, I guess the key thing
• 37:52
  for you're provided as much comfort as you can with an environment. We have a generative power.
• 37:58
  You have a fan, fan moves. Yeah, you don't maybe get so much mosquito. We fumigate for mosquitoes.
• 38:04
  Okay. But I guess that was... You just... I guess for me personally, you're just de-sensitise.
• 38:10
  So, the first... I did a couple of tours. The first time was intense. And then the second one,
• 38:17
  we had just starting to construct huts. Okay, all great.
• 38:21
  All the wooden huts. It was a huge upgrade. Okay. Yeah. So, I was like maybe
• 38:27
  Harlem in the 80s to Beverly Hills. Yeah, so it was quite nice. But even when intense, you don't...
• 38:35
  You just get on with it. Okay. You don't think about it. I didn't know anything about East
• 38:39
  Timor until you said I had to google it. I didn't know anything. Yeah, that was then...
• 38:44
  It was a conflict in 1999. It's that in 1999. Okay. And what did you have to do? Just work on planes?
• 38:51
  Yeah, my job was I managed the maintenance teams for providing a helicopter fleet. So, we had
• 38:59
  three earthquake helicopters. So, I looked after the maintenance teams. We had an armament,
• 39:03
  avionics, mechanical stores. And one of the key things is morale, which is the same in Antarctica.
• 39:10
  One of the key things is morale. You have to have social events. Sure.
• 39:14
  Keep people happy. Stop people getting bored. Right. Have activities like a social club.
• 39:20
  So, it's really... It's quite key in those sort of environments.
• 39:23
  When you are in these environments, do you ever get an opportunity to get a sense of the
• 39:29
  local culture? Or are you guys just so busy on the reason for being there that you don't actually
• 39:34
  get to absorb? So, it depends like Antarctica. There's not too many local community there.
• 39:43
  With my opportunity in Syria, South Lebanon, you live amongst the local community. So,
• 39:52
  it's wonderful you get to experience the local communities. You get to make wonderful people.
• 39:57
  You live in communities and it's safe. And I had a wonderful experience in Syria,
• 40:06
  wonderful experience in South Lebanon. With team orders a bit different in the fact that we were
• 40:12
  in tentative camps, so restricted. I don't remember we gifted items to give to the local community.
• 40:23
  So, we did go out to give out these gifts, which was the time that you get out to those communities,
• 40:30
  but we didn't have the same exposure. And is that just to make sure that they don't present
• 40:34
  your presents? Oh, it's just... I don't know how the initiative came about, but it was just,
• 40:40
  when there's hardship, people volunteer or donate until and does that quite well. They said,
• 40:44
  tell the phones where they donate money to causes. So, this was just people
• 40:50
  who donated and we were the distributor at that time. So again, that's just a wonderful experience.
• 40:57
  You went to South Sudan? Oh, yes. What was the point of that mission?
• 41:04
  So, I might turn the table back. So, when I left the military, I joined the UN.
• 41:11
  Okay. And then in the UN, I met my wife in Haiti. Okay.
• 41:18
  And then... What were you doing with the UN? So, I've always been involved aviation. So, in Haiti,
• 41:25
  I was, what they call the chief, but it's just, it's just a post where I was responsible for
• 41:32
  quality assurance, standards and training. But in the end, my role, core role, because I didn't
• 41:37
  offer out a few gaps, was to train the military to make the aviation operations safer. Okay.
• 41:43
  So, basically, I identified some gaps, created a training course and then delivered the training.
• 41:49
  Oh, okay. Because then the military units rotate and so I travel around Haiti, training the units
• 41:56
  to look after UN aircraft because we also float night for Medivac, casualty evacuation, casual
• 42:04
  ty evacuation. How is Haiti? It's so funny in the sense that if you look at his vanilla, like on
• 42:11
  a picture on a map, you have like lush green on one side and then almost devastation on the other
• 42:19
  side. And I find it strange that you can have like one landmass, but two really separate
• 42:26
  sides and I can't imagine what it means to like live there. It's, it is interesting and you
• 42:34
  see it when you fly. So, I was there during the earthquake or just after the earthquake. So,
• 42:40
  I was there before, but during, I was in another operation, but after, yeah, and during the time
• 42:46
  we had an average, so flying between Santo Domingo and Porto Prince to support the community during
• 42:53
  this, during this, you know, sad time, devastating time. But when you fly over the border, you see
• 43:00
  a dotted line where it's green, forestry, and where it's not deforested. And I was reading books
• 43:07
  because I'm not an expel on the history of the Spaniola, but for Haiti, people were,
• 43:17
  that was a source of income to chop down trees and was also to be able to, to live because they
• 43:24
  relied on, on fire, cooking, that sort of thing. By the same token, my understanding was that in
• 43:32
  Dominican Republic, the government would protect the forest because they were getting some sort
• 43:38
  of subsidies or some sort of financial goal that they were trying to achieve. And then,
• 43:44
  environmentally, the island is more favourable on the east. So, because when they deforested on the
• 43:53
  west in Haiti, then with, you know, you get hurricane belts, a lot of torrential rainfall,
• 44:03
  then because it's eroded, you get a lot of flooding, where some of the villages are located,
• 44:08
  they're constantly in floods, where the Dominican Republic is located, that I think
• 44:18
  the natural environment, what is the protected forests, I'm not even sure if they've got dams,
• 44:27
  but there's a number of reasons why one, the governments of both countries, in environmental
• 44:32
  conditions, it's crazy, it is, it's crazy. How was life post earthquake?
• 44:40
  It was tough, but it was tough for the Haitian people, you know, for the UN, it was,
• 44:49
  the UN suffered its biggest loss of life in any operation during that earthquake.
• 44:56
  Really? In any single event, so it affected the UN community, but I guess I had a colleague that
• 45:05
  lost two of three children in her husband. In those weeks? In those weeks. So, put things into
• 45:13
  perspective, yeah, she lost her family. So, just make sure you look at things differently.
• 45:21
  So, post earthquake, for me it was a busy time, I just focused on what I needed to do my work
• 45:28
  wise, and then at a certain time I got tired of it, and then eventually I made my way back to New Zealand.
• 45:35
  Okay, I just don't want to work for the UN when I was little. Oh yeah? Yeah, I just had this like
• 45:41
  idea of change for the world and you could do that through the UN. So, what did you want to do
• 45:46
  in particular? I just want to do something legal. It's like, oh yeah, I like that. I don't really
• 45:51
  thought it through, and then as I got older and you start to like read about different atrocities
• 45:55
  around the world, like for example when I learned about the Rwandan genocide, and maybe I'm just a
• 46:02
  bit cynical now, you know when you're younger you're kind of full of hope and optimism and the world
• 46:06
  is a fair place, you just need to work hard and you're going to get where you need to go.
• 46:09
  And you can help with change? Yeah, you know, and change is possible and all the things, you just
• 46:14
  need to do the right things. And then I think as you get all though, I've questioned what the
• 46:19
  hell the UN actually does in real life sometimes because it feels like in an effort to be a peacemaker
• 46:28
  and sometimes real change needs like more revolution than seems to align with the UN. But I say this
• 46:35
  all with like ton loads of nivity and ignorance, right? Like I don't know enough, but it's just like
• 46:40
  the sense that I get whenever there's like a world issue. We could talk about several
• 46:45
  current world issues, and I just feel like I don't know if the UN does enough, and then I didn't
• 46:50
  want to really be a part of an organization that didn't create the change that I kind of imagined
• 46:56
  could happen. Yeah, I joined it with that same intent, you know, to make change, to contribute,
• 47:01
  to do what I can. You know, Haiti is a good example that it's having operations,
• 47:09
  and it's provided stability. Sure, there are things that don't work for sure,
• 47:13
  and there's corruption, there's exploitation. The UN is trying to be a bit more sharp in that,
• 47:18
  but I guess selfishly I looked at it what I can contribute in my own little space.
• 47:26
  So you spoke a little bit of South Sudan. So I was in Haiti within peacekeeping. So the UN has
• 47:33
  a bunch of different pillars, UNICEF, UNDP, development program. So WFP World Food Program is the
• 47:42
  humanitarian of the UN. So my job in South Sudan is humanitarian aviation. So I went there
• 47:52
  to coordinate training to maybe get some capacity development, particularly for local community,
• 47:59
  maybe work with the universities to have some sort of pathway. So that was my aim, my vision.
• 48:05
  But then COVID struck. Okay, so then training became secondary because we have other operational units
• 48:14
  that need the time to operate. Because if we don't operate humanitarian context,
• 48:19
  then COVID becomes number three or four behind hunger,
• 48:25
  cholera, disease. So at one point, I think in Sudan was one of the largest global operations
• 48:32
  at that time. I think we were the largest aviation operator globally because we were operating
• 48:39
  when everybody else was close. Yeah, I think we live in aircraft. So my job then became
• 48:46
  COVID focal point. So anything related to COVID was directed at me. Okay. So then we had to implement
• 48:53
  you know, protective measures when crews got sick. And that was just such an uncertain time
• 48:59
  because I think in the country there was like one incubator that was it for the whole country. I
• 49:05
  didn't know where the incubator was. Wow. There was no vaccines. Where does South Sudan fit in the
• 49:13
  picking order to receive vaccines? Right. So that's when the UN came with WHO to get vaccines
• 49:19
  and donated work with the government, Ministry of Health to eventually get these vaccines out.
• 49:25
  So my job I coordinated vaccines, I coordinated with UNICEF. So my selfish little
• 49:33
  contributing world was beneficial to what I was doing within the UN. So I don't think about when I
• 49:40
  when you talk about the UN holistically, I don't tend to think about you know all the negative
• 49:45
  things because there are a lot of negative things. Mine's more like what can I do? What's my contribution?
• 49:50
  So it was actually quite satisfying when I did. Did you feel pressure during specifically
• 49:55
  for that COVID period? Prussia to do I guess the best that I have this issue that I don't
• 50:04
  I don't want to do a job but I want to do it well and I guess I always put pressure on myself.
• 50:11
  So yes I guess I want to do a job to make sure it goes well. So I would physically go to the
• 50:18
  aircraft. I had a colleagues that were really supportive and we would get UNICEF to come to the
• 50:24
  aircraft we would tell them the time so that we can minimise the time exposure of the cargo to
• 50:30
  you know the invocates hot weather that we coordinated closely to meet the needs where they wanted
• 50:36
  to go to all these different locations just for vaccines. Then you've got the human factor where
• 50:41
  maybe one of the crew is unwell. What can we do to support the crew? Because I also had to do
• 50:47
  medical evacuations at a certain time. As in people who had COVID really badly needed to get
• 50:53
  older the country. For you UNICEF yes yes but that was later on but I you know it
• 50:58
  been so kind of to WHO to sort of perform that role. So yeah you've got people's lives in your
• 51:06
  hand you've got the outcome as you know at the end of the days the well-being of the people
• 51:11
  the community so you do put a bit of pressure on yourself but it's in a good way.
• 51:16
  And you were there throughout COVID? Yes so for over five months I would talk to my family
• 51:26
  not known. So they're not with you at this point? Aaron Rome. So your family's in Rome,
• 51:31
  you're in Sudan. You burn self Sudan. Yes. During COVID. During COVID and then we did because you
• 51:38
  I just started the role and then suddenly you you can't travel. So the plan when you started the
• 51:45
  role was it to just fly between Rome and Sudan? Yes. But no you can't fly. No I can't fly.
• 51:52
  So you just buy yourself? Well I have my colleagues so everyone's in the same situation but I had
• 51:58
  a couple of really close colleagues that I won on UX Ethos from New Zealand and one was who I knew
• 52:05
  from Haiti and they basically it's your little network there. How old are your girls at this point?
• 52:11
  Yeah good point. Eight and maybe four, three four. So your three four-year-old can't really
• 52:21
  come around? No she doesn't really know but yeah the older one she was yeah that was difficult.
• 52:25
  It was difficult for all of us really but I remember even coming from Juba on the first flights
• 52:33
  so I flew on a UN flight to get to Ethiopia because we were providing that flight service
• 52:39
  globally the UN was providing a number of flights. So I was able to get on that flight.
• 52:44
  Then you get to Ethiopia you're put into a hotel and then you don't see anyone.
• 52:48
  Because you're quarantined? You quarantined and then the next day you go on your flight and you're
• 52:52
  hoping that you can get on your flight but then I spoke to someone else on the bus saying oh
• 52:56
  he did the same transport the day before and they canceled the flight so it's just
• 53:02
  stress but then when you do get out you're like have I contracted to con anything on the way you know
• 53:10
  so it's always it was stressful you don't want to give something because you know that
• 53:14
  your contacts go over on flights and we're going to now infect and we're going to get it
• 53:19
  myself because you're pre-imposed testing and it's my family you're going to get you know
• 53:24
  am I going to you know so it's all those sort of thoughts that go through your head
• 53:28
  so yeah so so after that time my my wife was in Rome that's when she got the job
• 53:39
  opportunity in Cambodia so for us we had to decide are we still going to have this long
• 53:46
  distance or perhaps it's better to be able to go back to Sudan or are you going to stay in Rome
• 53:51
  I'm so confused where you're staying so wife has the job opportunity in Cambodia
• 53:56
  that's what we're here that's why we're here but where were you planning on potentially being
• 54:02
  us we don't know so we came to Cambodia with my with my wife's role and you'd stop
• 54:08
  working for the UN by this point and I stopped working to be together okay yeah otherwise I'd
• 54:13
  still be in some other location most probably okay yeah but then I missed a point because we
• 54:20
  lived also in Jordan everyone lived in Jordan yes okay but we only had one daughter at that time
• 54:29
  and then we had both daughters when we lived in Sudan okay so we lived in Sudan yes since we
• 54:36
  talked about why travel maybe these things how was life in Jordan Jordan was nice okay yeah Jordan
• 54:43
  was safe we had a nice time Jordan good schools good community yeah what's the culture like
• 54:49
  is it worth visiting I've never even thought about visiting oh it's lovely it's lovely yeah you put
• 54:53
  it on the list yes why a number of reasons are the the people are nice at nice at safe you have some
• 55:00
  really world renowned destinations okay did see yes picture yes what do you run the worth worth
• 55:10
  visiting what he runs one of the most amazing places to see you know desert desert sunsets how
• 55:18
  do you know the film the Martian no oh there's a film the Martian was met Damon and it was shot
• 55:23
  there shot yeah okay food beautiful with at least in foods lovely okay it's yeah it is that
• 55:33
  by Lebanese it's yeah it's similar meaty but then you got hummus a little bit hummus a tabooly oh yeah
• 55:41
  yes okay so good food good food things to see you would like it I would okay it's safe
• 55:47
  whereas Sudan is challenging what does that mean challenge that was at that time we were there
• 55:55
  it was under sanctions so a lot of times you got a supermarket you you couldn't buy a lot of
• 56:00
  things pharmacy I mean our daughter was unwell we couldn't get the you know the medicines that
• 56:06
  she needed there was issues with getting fuel we had a vehicle so we had to rely on support
• 56:14
  through colleagues to get fuel just everything's challenging you have her boobs her boobs which is
• 56:18
  those big sandstorms they're called her boobs her boobs yep and the sun just tick over you can see
• 56:25
  the storm coming it's like a big brown mass of cloud coming and you're both working in Sudan
• 56:32
  so my wife was working in Sudan again with World Food Programme I was working in UAE in Saudi Arabia
• 56:40
  okay so I was doing a job for a New Zealand organization right and again I was fortunate I had a
• 56:48
  a boss that sort of wanted to look at different opportunities so you know I was able to travel
• 56:57
  I was the grocery person okay so I'd go between Saudi Arabia and Dubai Abu Dhabi and bring back
• 57:03
  groceries supplies supplies essential how old is your daughter at this point she is maybe 10
• 57:14
  so she's in school in Sudan yeah she's in school in Sudan how school in Sudan it was okay it was
• 57:20
  a French school okay yeah well it's not quite the school that you have in Cambodia because they're
• 57:26
  educated through the French system sure but the school for alpipuses was fine it was fine yeah it was
• 57:32
  fine how long were you living there three years okay yeah three years were they enjoyable considering
• 57:39
  you can't have basics looking back you you think about the good times but I mean would I
• 57:47
  I didn't an idea would go back I probably would not would I recommend that you go for a holiday
• 57:51
  I probably would not the day we left was when they ousted bus year the president and those
• 57:58
  what happened that was two military seniors staff got together to oust the president now those two
• 58:09
  military leaders oppose each other which is what you have now with this current situation in Sudan
• 58:16
  when you get assigned a post in a country do you get the option of saying no thank you
• 58:24
  no I haven't had that I haven't had that with you and so I've been given opportunities
• 58:31
  and I've accepted them okay yeah and for your wife has she ever said no thanks
• 58:37
  she she gets choices choices to choose okay but she gets what she gets selected for right
• 58:45
  so she doesn't necessarily get a choice to what's what cards she's handed out in the end right yeah
• 58:52
  but you just went to accept it yeah I don't know if I could I think I just but I think it's great
• 58:59
  to be able to because then you're open to you know whatever life wants to teach you sometimes it's
• 59:05
  it's really challenging you know when you're moving often and you know will eventually be moving
• 59:10
  again it's some part of you wants some stability but the other part is like you know you're still
• 59:17
  healthy the world is a place to see you know what lies ahead of you don't know and even though
• 59:25
  you have your challenging times it's you know I wouldn't have taken half the opportunities if I
• 59:30
  if I had that mindset I know I mean but I just came back from East Timor I was back in New Zealand
• 59:37
  and my boss said to me listen there's an opportunity for you to be based in the Middle East which is
• 59:43
  Damascus Lebanon Syria at that time there was like suicide bombing was at its peak
• 59:49
  right and I'm like oh what do I do here and then my my mother's quite religious and I said to her
• 59:57
  but I already made up my mind she's not listening to the podcast I said to you know what do you
• 1:00:02
  think about this she goes oh you know it's dangerous over there and I was going yeah but my
• 1:00:06
  remember you spoke to me about these opportunities you know you should take the opportunity or
• 1:00:09
  you have it's because yeah it's true but you know it's quite dangerous and I said I yeah I think
• 1:00:14
  I should take it it's an opportunity and I look back now when I joined the Air Force the first
• 1:00:22
  the first night the first night the Air Force I joined from this the same town I was six kilometers
• 1:00:28
  from my house where I was brought up that's where the training base was I could have climbed out
• 1:00:33
  the window and gone home and they're shouting at you swearing at you those the days you're you'll
• 1:00:37
  have to do that and I remember there was a young guy who was like upstairs he was homesick and I
• 1:00:43
  you know I said oh listen man it's okay well think about this this night and you know you'll you
• 1:00:50
  think you know just just one night will be you'll be over it and I'm telling them this to rest
• 1:00:55
  sure and I'm thinking what I want to do is jump out the window and go home yeah but then you get
• 1:01:00
  through that you get through these these other things this middle east thing you and it's just
• 1:01:05
  you come at the other end all the more richer don't you as you know from traveling but when you're
• 1:01:11
  older you have a family and you have kids and obviously moving around by yourself versus moving
• 1:01:17
  around as a family unit I imagine it's quite different do you ever feel like one from a social
• 1:01:23
  perspective I appreciate hearing Cambodia there's like a strong expect community where everyone
• 1:01:29
  seems to know everybody so if you're always moving do you ever feel like you're missing out on
• 1:01:37
  keeping those relationships on you know having like your core routine or are you like anti-routine
• 1:01:45
  you you adjust your routine okay matter where you go you adjust your routine the people at times
• 1:01:51
  that can be tiring because you're going to a new post you've got to find your feet you got to
• 1:01:58
  meet people you're starting from scratch job-wise even that you're starting from from a wife even
• 1:02:05
  for me when you're starting this new job just starting from scratch and you know you just need to
• 1:02:10
  find your feet again I guess the challenging part now at this time of our lives is our daughters
• 1:02:17
  particularly the oldest okay because she's really enjoyed her time how old is she now she's 12
• 1:02:23
  15 this year she's done really well academically she's found her niche got friends doing really
• 1:02:31
  well in sports she's got a good balance so the people will probably be more of an effect for her
• 1:02:38
  so I guess as a parent it's to support that will be the biggest challenge sure for more
• 1:02:45
  wife and I we we used to move in the the youngest one sure she'll be it'll be a challenging time
• 1:02:51
  but she'll be okay but the the biggest challenge will be for the older one yeah so again I'll let
• 1:02:59
  you know when we I'll let you know about three years yeah yeah when you first hear that you're
• 1:03:05
  coming to Cambodia do you have an idea of what life is going to be like here it's interesting
• 1:03:10
  because we spoke before we met in about yeah sort of a bit of a stereotype so for New Zealand
• 1:03:18
  and for my experience I'd been to some of South East Asian countries okay we had a base in Singapore
• 1:03:25
  we had Asian meetings in in Thailand we go to Thailand so there was this sort of unknown factor
• 1:03:32
  with Cambodia and also it's history you know it's really interesting history so I sort of had this
• 1:03:39
  vision of what I expected maybe maybe Bangkok 30 40 years ago okay but I was really surprised at the
• 1:03:50
  the concrete okay the infrastructure at the external influences of the city and
• 1:03:57
  propane I thought it'd be more like maybe some of the provinces maybe like CM Rep
• 1:04:02
  right but it's a bit more quiet I would have thought CM Rep would have been
• 1:04:06
  from then yeah so I was shocked in that regard the traffic even it's a relative thing but
• 1:04:13
  but the people are a lovely people it's safe and those are the main things that you think about
• 1:04:19
  as a parent and my children are going to be safe they can my our daughter travels on her own
• 1:04:24
  and the talk talks yeah so it's so you have a preconceived idea some things are much different
• 1:04:32
  but other things are refreshingly positive so overall it's been a great experience for us in
• 1:04:39
  Cambodia was there anything that you had to adjust to so I think that my
• 1:04:48
  so all my travels my tummy has become sensitive really yeah so I remember when we first arrived
• 1:04:56
  we went to Kip okay have you been to Kip so I've been to Kampart and everybody says I should have
• 1:05:00
  gone to Kip which is just next door yes I didn't okay tell me about Kip so keep a
• 1:05:06
  sense for it's Krab okay and and so we first arrived and what you what you do when you go to
• 1:05:12
  you know the local township you you indulge in the local you know community food cuisine drinks
• 1:05:22
  so I had the crab salad and after I had the crab salad I was not well for maybe like five days
• 1:05:32
  even five days or three or five was quite significant when normally food poisoning is a one night
• 1:05:38
  thing no no but I just I was told later because it was the rainy season that you don't eat the
• 1:05:45
  crab during the rainy season because the the water flows off the land and it can
• 1:05:50
  grab feed and so probably it was I found out in hindsight but I'm I always am weary of what I eat
• 1:05:59
  now okay so I don't eat the street food have you in the street food you don't eat street food
• 1:06:03
  I haven't eaten the street food in Cambodia really have you yes and I left to tell the tale why
• 1:06:09
  what I had some octopus like on a stick I haven't had anything super exotic I've seen the the
• 1:06:18
  insects and the spiders I haven't I haven't had them yet although I've had a few conversations
• 1:06:23
  and apparently I need to try the legs and just stay away from the body of the spider okay
• 1:06:28
  what anything on a stick I've had I've had salad to honest the food here to me isn't like
• 1:06:36
  mind-blowing is there something you really like that's not street food because clearly you're
• 1:06:42
  not eating that no so it's a little bit naughty but my we tend to eat French right there's a big
• 1:06:50
  French community because there's a big French community yes yeah and then and then my children
• 1:06:55
  have been sick at various times we had a trip they it's not uncommon for they've been to the
• 1:07:02
  medical clinic a few times for an IV okay because of sort of been unwell for you know for a few
• 1:07:09
  days right so it's not uncommon so now we just be extra careful yeah I'm just careful we are
• 1:07:14
  careful how is health care here just in terms of if someone's thinking of like where to move right
• 1:07:18
  these are the things that people think of how is how is medical care in Cambodia good okay yeah
• 1:07:25
  compared to the countries we've been it's good diagnostically it's good they may not have the
• 1:07:29
  the capability for certain I guess highly or I'm not a medical extra but in terms of
• 1:07:34
  but it wouldn't be something that someone needed to worry about no I'll do is have your appendix
• 1:07:39
  taken okay since being here okay yeah and it's obviously this a lot of tropical disease and I've
• 1:07:47
  got another thing that's just recovering from dengue so he's got to be a little bit careful with
• 1:07:52
  you know being in a tropical country sure which is you know the same in the neighboring countries
• 1:07:57
  yeah I mean when he said dengue to me that's like normal I don't yeah come from the tropical
• 1:08:02
  countries very well so you're still you're saying hate is the same what do you think that you hope
• 1:08:10
  your children will gain from this not quite nomadic lifestyle but a lifestyle that requires that you
• 1:08:15
  move you know every four or so years I just I just hope that later on maybe not that they won't
• 1:08:24
  now but later on that they appreciate the opportunities I've had okay that's what I would hope
• 1:08:30
  they do because I came from you know the one township with no traffic light no traffic light round
• 1:08:36
  about didn't travel or traveled locally sure and then you know to go on a plane like you know even
• 1:08:43
  when we flew here they they went and flew in a business class oh yeah didn't the podcast but
• 1:08:48
  maybe it's a super secret and I was it supposed to a secret no we were just lucky it's just I used
• 1:08:55
  to always get free upgrades right before always I know how to get a free upgrade when you're
• 1:08:59
  traveling on your own with you thank you that is it so I tell people all the time that motherhood
• 1:09:05
  has like demoted me in so many ways so I used to go to the airport and I would say you know hi
• 1:09:14
  and be really nice just be my really usual bubbly self and once this person checking me in I said
• 1:09:22
  oh so because I'm so lovely do you think there's space at the front of the plane and he laughed and
• 1:09:27
  he asked me to step to one side so he could see my shoes I was all okay I was wearing normal shoes
• 1:09:33
  thankfully and he said okay cool I can give an upgrade so I said what were you looking for and he
• 1:09:37
  said you know if you were in trainers or like looking a bit scruffy I couldn't upgrade you because
• 1:09:42
  it might disturb other guests if you pay you can dress however you want but you don't want to like
• 1:09:47
  alert anyone who has paid and then they could make a complaint okay I was like okay cool that was
• 1:09:52
  the last day I wore casual shoes to the airport when you see me go to an airport by myself
• 1:09:58
  babes I have heels on they're comfortable but they do what they need to do at four inches high
• 1:10:02
  right I dress up particular way not too much just like I belong you know what I mean and whenever
• 1:10:09
  my luggage was overweight because Jamaicans we are known for like if you're checking in for a
• 1:10:13
  Jamaican flight you don't need to see where the desk is just look for the people are unpacking
• 1:10:17
  and sort you know that is just how we roll and I I can't unpack like what if my underwear falls
• 1:10:21
  out to the suitcase so I'll always go and I just admit it I admit it start straight up I'm like
• 1:10:27
  my luggage is so off of it and then I asked you know how much is it gonna cost with the hopes that
• 1:10:31
  you're gonna answer and say it's not gonna cost anything and then I remember going to New York
• 1:10:37
  did that they looked over to the manager and the manager looked at me and then nodded and then
• 1:10:43
  the man said you don't have to pay for your overweight luggage I said oh thank you look to the
• 1:10:47
  manager gave a little smile I see you babes and then I got upgraded and my sister and my dad on
• 1:10:52
  our farm chat they're always like why do you always get upgraded and I say first of all I don't
• 1:10:58
  get checked in by a woman I don't care what anyone says I know we live in a world where gender doesn't
• 1:11:01
  matter let's be real right so I don't get checked in by a woman if a woman is about to check me in
• 1:11:06
  I literally said to the person sorry I have to find something please go in front of me and then
• 1:11:11
  I will go to the minute man at the desk I will be kind just you know my normal lovely warm self
• 1:11:17
  and then I will make a reasonable reasonable reasonable request babes and I always get upgraded
• 1:11:22
  you can't do that with children especially with twins right and also not all business class has a
• 1:11:27
  three-wave configuration most of it is two and one yeah yeah so where's the other twin gonna go
• 1:11:32
  but the other thing too is that once you once you've been business so I remember that when I first
• 1:11:38
  joined the UN I went into the line of Auckland going to I was going to Italy Brindisi for training
• 1:11:46
  okay so I was so I was flying Thai Airways and so I went in the line I didn't look my ticket
• 1:11:52
  went in the line and you know all the CF people and then the lady goes oh sorry you're over you're
• 1:11:57
  on this line okay oh so I go from all this people to no one and I walk in here and I've got a
• 1:12:03
  tray you know tray of drinks right and they go look at my they oh hello Mr Cassie how are you no
• 1:12:09
  they didn't have a tray of drinks they had the for your hands so they said are you upstairs this is
• 1:12:15
  not the the 380 this is the Boeing 747 right right it was in the 2006 so I go upstairs trying to be
• 1:12:24
  called so I go upstairs and then I sit down there's already a lady sitting down I'm seated next
• 1:12:30
  on the window and then I see these buttons on the seat and I'm doing the again trying to be cool
• 1:12:37
  but they know they know who has not been in business class so you know this the flight
• 1:12:44
  attempt that comes up she goes sir would you like some something to drink would you like some
• 1:12:49
  would you like some champagne I's going actually I'd like some champagne that would be lovely
• 1:12:52
  because here you go it's giving you champagne and I'm like it's just amazing and looking down
• 1:12:58
  and then I even finished the champagne and she goes would you like another one I was going oh yeah
• 1:13:03
  but you know how much is this cost she goes it's okay it doesn't it won't cost you it's okay so
• 1:13:09
  straight away they know and so you do that whole experience and then after that it's like man what
• 1:13:16
  is economy you want to be economy it involves like oh and the other thing too is when you travel a
• 1:13:22
  lot you know as you know where where you get I become gold or something right there's no
• 1:13:30
  bit of feeling when they go mr. Cassidy can you please come to the gate hoping thinking that you
• 1:13:36
  might get an upgrade yeah I love an upgrade so you know in terms of travel all these different
• 1:13:41
  countries so it's something about upgrades yeah it never gets old no the first time it was because
• 1:13:47
  my neighbor worked for the airline and I was like maybe 10 10 years old and I was so excited I was
• 1:13:53
  going to the UK and I knew that anti-vivine was going to be on the flight and I knew I was going to
• 1:13:58
  get my upgrade and I slept the entire way they gave me the menu and I was like oh my gosh I feel
• 1:14:04
  like an adult I'm getting a menu on a flight and before I could even order I was sleeping and no
• 1:14:09
  one woke me up I slept the entire nine and a half hours and I was so disappointed when I landed
• 1:14:14
  in London I was like my first experience I didn't get to experience anything because I was just
• 1:14:19
  sleeping so I can't I can't do that you can't sleep no no no sleep standing up you're lucky
• 1:14:26
  lucky this is not boring otherwise you'd be sleeping now the the I've this feeling that you're
• 1:14:33
  missing out on something you are even though you don't need the food because you go to the lounge
• 1:14:37
  before right and then you like would you like this what would you like for dinner it's like well
• 1:14:41
  I've just actually eaten the lounge but yeah I eat dinner as well and you would you like to do it
• 1:14:46
  you don't need that either yeah yeah so the best airline food do you have a fair favorite airline
• 1:14:52
  well I did like a New Zealand but it could they had nice wine as well but I didn't we don't
• 1:14:58
  have such a good experience yeah they have good wine if I ever see a souvenir belong on the menu
• 1:15:04
  that's from New Zealand it's my safe it's my safe choice yeah yeah yeah same but I I worked with
• 1:15:11
  Emirates flight catering that's my favorite so they they that stays there appearing like two
• 1:15:16
  hundred fifty thousand meals a day so we worked I worked with them up one of my jobs when I was
• 1:15:20
  doing UAE in Saudi Arabia right and they were making their own kitchen they're making their own
• 1:15:24
  chocolates ice cream and they were making to double the the number of meals so that they were
• 1:15:30
  building that that was pre-COVID and then I then I changed roles again but what they were investigating
• 1:15:36
  that time was um vertical farming it's basically where you grow your produce and containers yes
• 1:15:43
  so you use 90% less water no pesticides so they're going to make all their produce and listing
• 1:15:49
  the American company so they were their produce their processing it's I've seen I was very cool and
• 1:15:58
  and then their shifts were doing like at that time these qualifications that we were that we were
• 1:16:02
  working with so it was the first airline that gave me proper seasoning not really I remember getting
• 1:16:08
  like a chili jam on the side and I like make chili jam I love chili jam and I was super impressed
• 1:16:13
  I was like oh my gosh there is flavor in the food but then it also makes you wonder like why
• 1:16:17
  the others are so terrible yeah you're right oh gosh if there was anything you would share to
• 1:16:23
  someone who is thinking about moving abroad who doesn't have the luxury of necessarily having a
• 1:16:29
  job like yours that took you to places what would you say one question your motivation um because
• 1:16:39
  if if you think oh I'm gonna do that because it seems a cool thing to do and then you get there
• 1:16:47
  and it's not so not what you expect if you're motivated you're gonna have face challenges you
• 1:16:54
  motivated you'll overcome those challenges easier because you know you're there for the right
• 1:16:59
  reasons right some some um travel you won't have those challenges and but I'm thinking more
• 1:17:08
  hardship type or more challenging type environments where you've got above normal you don't you
• 1:17:17
  don't have the luxuries that you might otherwise have in you know places like Rome and Paris you
• 1:17:23
  know there's nothing to worry about if you go into those places so it's more the the challenges
• 1:17:29
  that you'll face off the offbeat and track because if you're traveling to you know the main cities
• 1:17:35
  around the world it's just it's just wonderful yeah that's wonderful I mean when I first went
• 1:17:42
  went to Paris I mean I was at my wife's um the the street just where I lived and you could see
• 1:17:49
  in the distance that I will tell oh wow all right and then I'm from here have you seen the fake
• 1:17:53
  Eiffel Tower here sorry I know I got to this place and I was literally just looking for a park
• 1:17:59
  for the girls so I typed in park near me and it said euro park I said okay cool I go to euro park
• 1:18:06
  thinking that I'm gonna see slides and swings or whatever the kids need to play on and then I
• 1:18:11
  why is there a weird miniature Eiffel Tower but also like why is there the Sydney orchestra
• 1:18:18
  house that is not in Europe I was very I don't understand the appeal do you understand the appeal
• 1:18:23
  of this word please I just I buy by chance went there because I also saw who that's
• 1:18:30
  packed and my daughter had played in a football tournament okay so we went around the
• 1:18:35
  and then I saw the Eiffel Tower I was like oh I didn't actually realize this so I don't know I
• 1:18:40
  didn't I took it with a grain of salt it was so confused it was it was nice so it was not quite
• 1:18:46
  the same as going to Paris but it was okay sure back in your real Paris with the real Eiffel Tower
• 1:18:53
  yeah I'm just spoiled yeah it's just been spoiled it's amazing I've eaten on top of the
• 1:19:00
  Eiffel Tower I've been to Juvearn I've been to Juvearn it's amazing is it well just the just the
• 1:19:08
  so I was extremely disappointed with my business extremely disappointed so I go to Juvearn I think it
• 1:19:15
  was for my 22nd birthday I think so I was living in New York at the time I'm like cool I'm
• 1:19:22
  going to go to Paris I went to Paris with school for like a summer trip and then I was like oh I'm
• 1:19:28
  gonna treat myself to go to Juvearn and at the time I think they had one Michelin Star either one
• 1:19:32
  or two can't remember but I was like I was still on the Michelin Star hype I'm no longer on the
• 1:19:37
  Michelin Star it was so you have more culinary well then no I was in college I just even know I
• 1:19:41
  just I'm someone that eats right like we all have palettes and we all like food I just know what I
• 1:19:46
  like more than other people so I go to Juvearn I'm super excited I remember it was the time when
• 1:19:53
  everybody who was rich had those ostrich egg handbags I don't know I'm not fashionista but yeah
• 1:19:59
  they all had those ostrich eggs handbags that were very expensive so I remember walking in like
• 1:20:04
  seeing a few of them around I'm wondering why their husbands looked scruffy in like a Ralph Lauren
• 1:20:08
  Polo next to them trying to look like they were walking off the road yeah it was very strange and I
• 1:20:13
  was just like if I was a glamour queen I would help my husband to like match the vibe anyway we get
• 1:20:18
  the menu I'm as I said younger less experience and this like wine menu was an encyclopedia it was
• 1:20:27
  like pages pages very heavy and I have zero reason to pretend to know anything about anything so I
• 1:20:34
  asked to speak to the sommeliers in hopes that he would kind of guide the experience I tell him
• 1:20:38
  the kinds of wines that I like at the time I was very much more white no I'm still white but I'll
• 1:20:43
  go a little red if we need to but at the time I'm like this is what I like could you please just
• 1:20:47
  kind of suggest something for me he makes a suggestion I said cool let's go with that first thing
• 1:20:52
  he says is we don't have it okay so why did you suggest it I didn't ask for it you suggested it
• 1:20:59
  and you don't have it okay cool then we finally get to a wine that they do have in stock and then we
• 1:21:04
  get the meal and the meal which is it was not tasty it was not great it was not mind-blowing the
• 1:21:10
  view incredible and then I was like I feel like that's why they are where they are in terms of
• 1:21:17
  status it's because of everything else that is going on and normally in hospitality I agree that
• 1:21:24
  the service the ambiance the everything else other than the product is probably more important
• 1:21:31
  than the product itself so how long ago was this when you are so I'm 36 so this is about 14
• 1:21:38
  years ago 14 years yeah and I do agree that all the other elements are probably more important than
• 1:21:44
  the average person thinks than the product itself however this isn't street food prices right this
• 1:21:51
  is a certain level of prestige that I then expect you to be really firing on all cylinders the
• 1:21:56
  service was basic if not poor the food was forgettable and yes the views are beautiful
• 1:22:01
  needless to say I've never been back yeah we we were spoiled in the fact that my wife's parents
• 1:22:12
  took our daughter for her birthday and we had had at the time of her birthday we had a trip to
• 1:22:20
  Sri Lanka okay and when we arrived we'd fly through the night and we went to the hotel it wasn't
• 1:22:27
  expecting us the guys were like zombies there was no rooms and we were traveling with my wife's
• 1:22:34
  parents as well he's 84 she's you know mid seventies so everyone so you hadn't booked we'd lost
• 1:22:41
  their bags they'd lost their bags they know we'd booked we'd booked months in advance they'd lost your
• 1:22:46
  bags they'd put a lost their bags the hotel wasn't aware that you were coming even though you
• 1:22:50
  had a reservation yeah and we have elderly and young people and then they offered these rooms one
• 1:22:55
  was like a smoking room they just think one with a AC didn't work one was just dirty with a carpet
• 1:23:01
  was dirty and that was and then the next day we were looking for a place to have some breakfast
• 1:23:06
  nothing was really open and that was my daughter's birthday oh no so what they did was they took us
• 1:23:11
  took her up to the Jules Verne but I know what you mean about like the the view the presentation
• 1:23:22
  I like food that I like okay I like small I think being with a French wife I have become more
• 1:23:30
  attuned to enjoying food and eating as a as a experience so not not as in hailing so I think
• 1:23:39
  generally New Zealand you got good food but you tend to just in hailing right go off you go
• 1:23:44
  whereas in France and Italy because we were living in it's an experience I love Italian food but I
• 1:23:49
  remember the it wasn't nice food to me it tasted nice and but it was quite really heavy you know
• 1:23:56
  typically French heavy food so after a while it took I don't know probably a few days to digest
• 1:24:02
  but I remember going to another restaurant and again my in-laws was for my wife's birthday
• 1:24:10
  okay and I went to take my jacket here to wear a jacket I would take my jacket top I went
• 1:24:15
  sorry you can't do that you have to die on these two jackets okay and they specialised and
• 1:24:22
  oh what are they specialised in duck oh you probably know the restaurant I don't know of
• 1:24:28
  when you get there they tell you what number duck you have because they have all the number of
• 1:24:32
  ducks that they've served since the history of the place yeah yeah it was duck and it was amazing
• 1:24:38
  too I love the presentation but we didn't get the the Somalia negative experience that you had either
• 1:24:44
  by the place but same thing a big book or what the Jules Verne Somalia that is he took out this
• 1:24:50
  bottle of wine gave it to my daughter to hold and it was worth I don't know thousands of euro
• 1:24:57
  and I'm like can you please give it back to him now why did you even give her the bottle
• 1:25:04
  yeah it was thousands too funny for wine yeah I wouldn't appreciate that no I did a tasting once
• 1:25:11
  with a French friend who worked for a major hotel and he was my first like introduction to
• 1:25:17
  the knowledge behind wine so we would do a lot of smell like testing and all of this Tijuana
• 1:25:24
  and everything he was taking me through everything about wine and I remember he introduced me my
• 1:25:29
  first like expensive bottle of wine with the managing director of the hotel so we're at the table
• 1:25:34
  and at the time the bottle was like 2000 US dollars right and I would have been just turn 19
• 1:25:42
  and so I hadn't had a bottle of wine like this before and I was tasting it and I turned to
• 1:25:47
  the MD and I said but it doesn't taste good and he says to me April this is why I love you
• 1:25:53
  because everyone else at this table even if they don't like it they'll tell you how great it is
• 1:25:58
  thank you so much and immediately your first thing is but you don't like it regardless of the price
• 1:26:04
  tag like but if it costs two thousand dollars I want it to taste good it's like don't worry
• 1:26:09
  and we've still became friends because that's just how I feel I think it should it should taste good
• 1:26:14
  so can you tell the difference now between a two thousand two hundred no baby it's just your
• 1:26:19
  yeah it's just your taste but you know how you say you know what you like yeah I'm the same I know
• 1:26:23
  what I like and also I just never feel pressure to pretend to like something regardless of
• 1:26:29
  the audience or how much it costs yeah yeah whereas I think I think the wine world I think they're
• 1:26:35
  trying to do more now to make it more approachable but for a long time the history of the
• 1:26:40
  wine world is a very snooty industry I think so being brought up in Blenheim that's the home of
• 1:26:49
  Montana Montana wines so there used to be like agriculture so as a young boy I was doing garlic
• 1:26:56
  okay so you they'd lay garlic out you'd cut the roots cut the tips and you'd make many of
• 1:27:01
  of a barrel of those so you'd cut it and then you'd hand you barrel you get a ticket
• 1:27:07
  right to make money okay so you've got shearing shoes you get blisters on your hands but suddenly
• 1:27:11
  you get this money it's like it was as cool yeah and then they changed that land to vineyards okay
• 1:27:16
  then after a few years they had this thing called a wine festival and there would have been like
• 1:27:21
  two tents one tent had some wines one tent had some food so and then gradually it grew into this
• 1:27:26
  morphed into this big event where it was a stadium bans and then you'd pay it had its own currency
• 1:27:34
  okay by currency right and then one wine would be worth three of these tickets as opposed to
• 1:27:39
  that give in the first ones they'll give you the bottle go here you go just fill up your glass
• 1:27:42
  sure but again my safety taste or savignon I never like shardonnay okay I never like was it too
• 1:27:51
  too okay yeah yeah yeah same and then I read wine I know I've become a bit more familiar am I
• 1:27:58
  am I an expert of taste no way but I know what I like but the same as you it's like okay a
• 1:28:04
  chef Oliver chef and and all you hear that if you're here there's a place called Pepe not to
• 1:28:10
  advertise they have this really nice wine called Alan Scott okay is that the one you like it
• 1:28:17
  is there anything that you wanted to touch on that we haven't touched on in this conversation
• 1:28:23
  no just that I've really enjoyed talking to you but so really thought about your journey you know
• 1:28:28
  you don't think about your travels you just do your travels and you just move on to another
• 1:28:35
  travel so and and basically talking about this your step back you think oh when you probe the
• 1:28:40
  questions like oh oh yeah I didn't really think about this and this so so it helps you to I guess
• 1:28:46
  appreciate what opportunities you get you know opportunities of tasting wine that's a thousand
• 1:28:52
  dollar whatever bottle of wine you know I'm happy with a fifteen dollar bottle of wine I was happy
• 1:28:57
  in a tent but now that I'm older I don't want to live in a tent so yeah thank you thank you so
• 1:29:04
  for taking the time talk with me if your life was a postcard what would the image look like
• 1:29:11
  for me family's important my roots are important where I came from I'm a New Zealand Māori so
• 1:29:17
  that would have to feature somewhere on the bridge I mean to you identity it's my identity
• 1:29:23
  where you from I mean I'm a New Zealander and more than that I'm a New Zealand Māori my dad's
• 1:29:28
  from a village up north but you identify with the country strongly for me so it's a good question
• 1:29:35
  maybe from my daughters later on what do you identify as do you instill like a sense of culture
• 1:29:44
  in your kids so like for my kids I have since they you know knee high to a grasshopper I stand
• 1:29:50
  them in the mirror they say like some positive affirmations but it starts with I am Jamaican and
• 1:29:54
  we do that every morning and every evening because for me being Jamaican is that my armoured
• 1:30:00
  yeah it's your identity too yeah and so regardless of where they're born regardless of where they
• 1:30:04
  live regardless of our movements if you ask them know you know where they're from they will
• 1:30:09
  automatically say Jamaica even though people get confused because they're speaking French and
• 1:30:13
  English and all of these things but for me that's important is it important for your children to
• 1:30:18
  have it's a kind of attachment yeah it's a good question so when my eldest was young my wife said
• 1:30:28
  you know what language should I be speaking and I said you should only speak to her in French
• 1:30:32
  she was born in New Zealand okay so only speak in French and she did to her credit she only spoke
• 1:30:38
  in French and she never you know after the with the time when she did start talking whatever it
• 1:30:44
  wasn't she never spoke in French and it wasn't until we all went to Corsica whatever age it was
• 1:30:51
  that suddenly she was surrounded by these people that only spoke French that was like a switch
• 1:30:56
  that she had for French French the youngest one was born in Paris okay they've both been educated
• 1:31:02
  in the French system when we went to New Zealand we went to the store where they were they have
• 1:31:10
  green stones green stones a necklace called ponamo and New Zealanders it's it's like a
• 1:31:19
  each ponamo has a different story but it's to me it's like a protection of the of my daughters
• 1:31:25
  and it's quite common to have ponamo in New Zealand you'll see a lot of New Zealand especially
• 1:31:29
  Māori wearing ponamo necklaces so they each have a ponamo necklace so but the interesting part is
• 1:31:38
  when we went to the store there's the woman at the store as Māori she said so watch your
• 1:31:43
  fucker papa watch your history watch your that crown watch your mountain watch your river because
• 1:31:48
  that's what you identify yourself in New Zealand and they don't know and she said you need to
• 1:31:52
  teach your children that so have I have I been doing that no I haven't should I yes I should but
• 1:31:58
  I should probably be doing that more myself especially when I say my identity is that Kiwi okay so I
• 1:32:04
  probably and ironic in that regard where I should be and like for a while with my family my siblings
• 1:32:12
  we were doing language training together okay because my cousin's a teacher and it was quite fun
• 1:32:19
  doing Māori language but now the language do you speak no okay I know some words but I don't
• 1:32:24
  speak and being away I haven't practiced with that sure no would you ever move back to New Zealand
• 1:32:31
  I I would but it's it's now the the driver is our children sure and there's no French international
• 1:32:40
  vocabulary they've been this French system so it's it's highly unlikely that it's a France
• 1:32:46
  sorry to New Zealand and yeah and also with my wife's drivers that sort of dictates we were going to
• 1:32:52
  be yeah cool so the postcard there's something Māori and maybe something family wise as well
• 1:32:59
  sure my family yeah thank you thank you it wasn't as bad as he thought it was going to be wasn't
• 1:33:06
  that wasn't