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How to Land Your Dream Job: with Cosmopolitan Editor in Chief Jessica Giles · QUESTION EVERYTHING

0:04
Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
0:08
Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe, and each week my guests
0:12
Speaker 1: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
0:17
Speaker 2: This is pretty smart.
0:19
Speaker 1: If you're around my age, you probably remember reading a
0:22
Speaker 1: magazine at the airport or in your bedroom when you
0:25
Speaker 1: were a kid. I've heard print magazines referred to as
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Speaker 1: the analog Internet. They foster communities of people and set trends,
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Speaker 1: just like on social networks. Now that many publications have
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Speaker 1: gone digital, the way we're consuming our information is a
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Speaker 1: bit different, but I think the impact of a magazine
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Speaker 1: still remains. They're a timestamp of our culture. Cosmopolitan magazine
0:49
Speaker 1: is definitely that, especially for women. You probably first read
0:53
Speaker 1: about sex and Cosmo. It might be where you first
0:57
Speaker 1: read a horoscope or about your first beauty tip. What
1:00
Speaker 1: you may not know is that the first issue of
1:03
Speaker 1: Cosmo came out in eighteen eighty six. It's gone through
1:07
Speaker 1: so many eras, from fashion focus to a literary showcase,
1:11
Speaker 1: and in the sixties, with the help of the editor
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Speaker 1: in chief Helen Gurley Brown, Cosmo became its own symbol
1:17
Speaker 1: of sexual freedom for women. Today, Cosmo is not just
1:24
Speaker 1: a magazine. It's editorial, digital video, and social platforms are
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Speaker 1: all led by Jessica Giles, who became editor in chief
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Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen at the age of thirty two. Under Jessica,
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Speaker 1: Cosmo has increased its reach to sixty one million people,
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Speaker 1: the largest young women's media brand in the world. I
1:45
Speaker 1: sat down with Jessica to chat about her rapid rise
1:48
Speaker 1: to the top of the publishing industry, why she thinks
1:51
Speaker 1: smartphones are the new cigarettes, and why passion is the
1:54
Speaker 1: key to getting promoted. I think we hear a lot
1:58
Speaker 1: of conversations about how to quote get ahead at work,
2:01
Speaker 1: and they don't really give us a lot of tangible takeaways.
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Speaker 1: This is different Jessica did. She has really skillful advice,
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Speaker 1: and I have to tell you I was pretty blown
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Speaker 1: away by her. So you first moved to New York
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Speaker 1: from Georgia, which is why you're so nice, at age
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Speaker 1: fourteen to study ballet. I thought that was interesting enough,
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Speaker 1: and then I learned that you were staying at a
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Speaker 1: nunnery during that time, So tell me about that experience.
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Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, okay, So the thing about serious
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Speaker 3: ballet students in this country is that the way they
2:41
Speaker 3: spend their summers is not like hiking camping, you know,
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Speaker 3: going to the beach. The way Series dancers spend their
2:47
Speaker 3: summers is they go to summer programs all around the
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Speaker 3: country and they study at new schools. And ABT American
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Speaker 3: Ballet Theater was sort.
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Speaker 2: Of known as like the best and on Center State.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god, I know came out right before
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Speaker 3: I went there for the summer, and so I was like,
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Speaker 3: oh my god, Sasha Rudesky, like, I was totally starstruck.
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Speaker 3: But so ABT has programs around the country, New York
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Speaker 3: is the best one, and I was so so eager
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Speaker 3: to go. I got in, which was really exciting. You
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Speaker 3: have to audition. These auditions are terrifying. They are like
3:17
Speaker 3: hundreds of girls in a room got in. My parents,
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Speaker 3: who are very strict Southern parents, were like, we're not
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Speaker 3: sending you to New York at the age of fourteen
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Speaker 3: by yourself for six weeks. And so the only way
3:29
Speaker 3: I was able to go. They found out that Misty Copeland,
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Speaker 3: who at the time was like just a young phenom,
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Speaker 3: She wasn't the massive star she is today. Misty Copeland
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Speaker 3: had stayed at a convent in Chelsea, when she went
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Speaker 3: to the same program, and so my parents were like,
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Speaker 3: if we can get you into that convent, will allow
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Speaker 3: you to So I literally lived at a convent when
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Speaker 3: I was there for the summer. It was wild.
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Speaker 2: It's incredible.
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Speaker 1: What did the summer at ABT teach you? It feels
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Speaker 1: like it's so rigorous.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really rigorous. It taught me that there's a
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Speaker 3: difference between your physical energy and enthusiasm for something and
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Speaker 3: your emotional energy and enthusiasm for something, and I sort
4:06
Speaker 3: of that was summer was interesting for me. There would
4:08
Speaker 3: be times when physically I'd be able to do something,
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Speaker 3: but emotionally I wasn't quite there, and I had to
4:13
Speaker 3: sort of figure out how to marry those two things,
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Speaker 3: which I guess is a complicated way of saying. It
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Speaker 3: taught me how to start taking care of myself, especially
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Speaker 3: because I was living effectively on my own with the nuns.
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Speaker 3: Had to you know, feed myself and figuring all that
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Speaker 3: out at fourteen is it's a lot.
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Speaker 2: But actually feeding yourself is harder than most people.
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Speaker 1: And it is.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And like you know, I was an idiot, So
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Speaker 3: I had like black and white cookies constantly and just
4:39
Speaker 3: that was you know, what I had to do to
4:42
Speaker 3: stay awake. But it was a really interesting summer, and
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Speaker 3: in many ways it's why I'm here now, because I
4:46
Speaker 3: fell in love with the city and felt comfortable here.
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Speaker 3: New York is notoriously a tough place to make it,
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Speaker 3: and I'm lucky that I had a sort of head start.
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Speaker 2: It's beautiful.
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Speaker 1: So your first experience is in public were internships for
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Speaker 1: The New Yorker, which I thought was very cool because
5:03
Speaker 1: that's actually not.
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Speaker 2: A usual trajectory. I would say.
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Speaker 1: You said you were intellectually nourished, also something I love.
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Speaker 2: And you were at Vogue.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, Vogue is also like you went from ABT, which
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Speaker 1: is so quintessentially New York to Vogue, which is also
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Speaker 1: so quintessentially New York. Is there something about Vogue that's
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Speaker 1: like a stereotype that's absolutely true and then one that
5:27
Speaker 1: you experience that you would say is false.
5:30
Speaker 3: So interesting? You know. So, I think Sex and the
5:34
Speaker 3: City taught us all a falsehood about fashion, and that
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Speaker 3: falsehood is that for every bodega run for milk or
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Speaker 3: date or what have you, you're wearing an entirely new
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Speaker 3: outfit of entirely designer clothes. Obviously that's untenable for the
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Speaker 3: average woman and even for the person who works at Vogue.
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Speaker 3: And so one thing that really surprised me when I
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Speaker 3: started working there is that there are a lot of
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Speaker 3: uniforms there. And I don't mean, you know, a Vogue
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Speaker 3: mandated uniform. I mean that the head stylists who were
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Speaker 3: there when I was there would wear every day black pants,
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Speaker 3: white top, low bun, no makeup. And I was like,
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Speaker 3: that is not what I thought fashion was. I thought
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Speaker 3: fashion was a different outfit every day, and like showing
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Speaker 3: off all of your acquisitions, the people who define fashion are,
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Speaker 3: you know, choosing really great pieces that they wear constantly.
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Speaker 3: Anna Winterer actually is known for wearing the same dress
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Speaker 3: very often, and I think that's really you know, it's economical. Obviously,
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Speaker 3: greape fashion is expensive, and if you're going to spend
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Speaker 3: the money on it, you might as well get the use.
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Speaker 3: But the uniform thing is really interesting to me because
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Speaker 3: it allows them to put all of their focus, all
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Speaker 3: of their effort into styling other people, into bringing fashion
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Speaker 3: to other places, not themselves.
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Speaker 2: They don't have.
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Speaker 3: That twenty minute like argument with their closet every morning.
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Speaker 3: So I was really surprised by the union thing, but
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Speaker 3: I totally get it, and I strive to someday find
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Speaker 3: a uniform of my own.
7:05
Speaker 1: I loved learning about your story because I have interviewed
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Speaker 1: one other editor in chief and she's sort of had
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Speaker 1: this non traditional path and you've risen through the ranks
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Speaker 1: of editorial and it's like, and I think it's so
7:19
Speaker 1: interesting to hear how you did it. Yeah, and you
7:23
Speaker 1: started as an assistant I did, okay, And you're also
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Speaker 1: a very young editor in chief, which I know people
7:28
Speaker 1: have really focused on that, right, Yeah, how does that feel?
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Speaker 3: It feels appropriate considering the audience I serve. I feel like,
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Speaker 3: you know, as a representative of that audience, I think
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Speaker 3: it makes sense to have a young editor for Cosmo.
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Speaker 3: It is a little bit, you know, personally, it was
7:44
Speaker 3: exciting to be the youngest editor, and it's exciting that
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Speaker 3: there are people who are interested in the work that
7:50
Speaker 3: we're doing partially because of that. But you know, over time,
7:54
Speaker 3: I will no longer be the youngest right now, and
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Speaker 3: so you know, figuring out how I can make a
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Speaker 3: mark that's longer lasting then my age is something that
8:03
Speaker 3: I worked towards.
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Speaker 2: For sure. I find that to be the least interesting
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Speaker 2: thing about you. But I hear what you're saying.
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Speaker 1: Would you say, and if so, why your time as
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Speaker 1: an assistant was valuable?
8:13
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I learned so much.
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Speaker 3: I worked for an incredible woman, Cindy Levey, who was
8:20
Speaker 3: the editor in chief of Glamour. Yeah, I love her too.
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Speaker 3: I was her assistant for two and a half three years,
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Speaker 3: and I was.
8:28
Speaker 2: Sorry I didn't travel you.
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Speaker 1: Would you say that she's I think she signed like
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Speaker 1: changed the game for editors. Yeah, front of the magazine
8:36
Speaker 1: world because it became it became a world I think
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Speaker 1: because of her that was like more of a female
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Speaker 1: gaze versus yeah, a male gaze a little.
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Speaker 2: Yet like to please a man.
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Speaker 1: Yep.
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Speaker 3: I very much saw that when I was there. I
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Speaker 3: also think she changed the game in being really enterprising.
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Speaker 3: Cindy is very business minded and entrepreneurial in a way
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Speaker 3: that editors and she have to be now, and that
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Speaker 3: was sort of innovative at the time. It was new
9:03
Speaker 3: back then, and I think she really changed the game.
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Speaker 3: And what an incredible thing to work for someone and
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Speaker 3: to be able to see really closely how she's changing
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Speaker 3: the game. I back in the day this was what
9:18
Speaker 3: thirteen fourteen years ago. We used to edit on paper,
9:21
Speaker 3: and so I would hand every piece of paper to her,
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Speaker 3: and then I would receive it from her and distribute
9:27
Speaker 3: it to the office. And so I would read every note,
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Speaker 3: I would read every edit, And that really is how.
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Speaker 2: I learned to edit.
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Speaker 3: I just took it upon myself to see what she
9:38
Speaker 3: was doing, what judgment calls she was making, how she
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Speaker 3: was thinking, and so much of my editing skill now
9:44
Speaker 3: comes from that and comes from her. But it does
9:47
Speaker 3: require that you take it upon yourself to learn that stuff.
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Speaker 3: It's very easy to let it pass you by. I
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Speaker 3: think media is really interesting because I think it requires
9:57
Speaker 3: a pretty serious amount of self education and self education
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Speaker 3: as you go. I think that self education nowadays is
10:04
Speaker 3: very much defined by and led by who your audience is.
10:07
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of you know, being in a
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Speaker 3: feedback loop with your reader, and you know, watching them
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Speaker 3: walk out ahead and getting ahead of them and then
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Speaker 3: cycling back. I really think that education is very much
10:19
Speaker 3: led by the audience these days, which is very cool.
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Speaker 3: But I can't imagine a better way to have started
10:23
Speaker 3: my career.
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Speaker 1: Were you a good assistant, I think I was a
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Speaker 1: good assistant, you see, like you you know, those skills
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Speaker 1: continue to serve me really well.
10:32
Speaker 2: It's there's a patience that you must acquire.
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Speaker 3: I think that's the thing I still need to work on, unfortunately.
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Speaker 3: But you know, like attention to detail, ability to do
10:42
Speaker 3: eighteen things at the same time, ability to reprioritize constantly,
10:47
Speaker 3: those things really come in handy. It's also it was
10:50
Speaker 3: such a satisfying job because it was really the only
10:54
Speaker 3: job I ever had where I had a very finite
10:57
Speaker 3: way of assessing whether I had done a good job
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Speaker 3: or not, and that was really satisfying for my virgo soul.
11:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're into horoscopes, which we're going to talk
11:05
Speaker 1: about because the Cosmo reader is very horoscope, very into astro,
11:09
Speaker 1: which I find interesting that you are as well.
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Speaker 2: I want to know which came first to the chicken
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Speaker 2: or the egg. We'll get there.
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Speaker 1: Did you have a goal to get to editor in
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Speaker 1: chief by a certain age?
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Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting. I didn't set out to be
11:22
Speaker 3: in media in the first place. It is a place
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Speaker 3: I landed because I, you know, in exploring my strengths,
11:30
Speaker 3: my passions in my early twenties, taking an internship with
11:34
Speaker 3: the New Yorker was a very exciting thing for me,
11:37
Speaker 3: and that really changed everything because when I was there,
11:41
Speaker 3: I fell in love with the kind of storytelling that
11:43
Speaker 3: they do. The medium is really interesting to me because
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Speaker 3: it's visual, coming from ballet, coming from a visual background,
11:51
Speaker 3: that really appealed.
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Speaker 2: And then when I got to.
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Speaker 3: Vogue and then Glamour, I realized how female forward the
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Speaker 3: industry is, that women are not only given a seat
12:01
Speaker 3: at the table, but are really seen as leaders who
12:04
Speaker 3: are authoritative about their audiences.
12:06
Speaker 2: And that really inspired me.
12:08
Speaker 3: So I didn't necessarily set out to be in media,
12:11
Speaker 3: but I fell in love with it once I got there.
12:13
Speaker 3: And then I have, you know, been lucky to be
12:17
Speaker 3: at the right place at the right time over and
12:20
Speaker 3: over and over again in my career. But it's not
12:23
Speaker 3: just that, it's that I also in those moments showed
12:26
Speaker 3: up with the right skill set and the right mindset.
12:29
Speaker 3: And so why do.
12:30
Speaker 2: You emphasize mindset?
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Speaker 3: Because I think you know, to be a successful editor today,
12:37
Speaker 3: you need to be ruthlessly pragmatic. You need to be
12:42
Speaker 3: really open eyed about what the industry has been like,
12:46
Speaker 3: what the industry can be like, what you need to
12:48
Speaker 3: do to help your brand succeed in the future. You
12:52
Speaker 3: need to be enterprising like Cindy was. And I think
12:56
Speaker 3: so much of effective leadership in media now is the
12:59
Speaker 3: mindset around what the brand should do to serve its
13:03
Speaker 3: audience as best as it possibly can, the ways it
13:06
Speaker 3: needs to evolve. And so it's not just right place,
13:10
Speaker 3: right time, though it is partially right place, right time,
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Speaker 3: for sure that I landed here again, it's not something
13:16
Speaker 3: I really set out for.
13:17
Speaker 2: It just it happened.
13:19
Speaker 1: There's a quote I love about luck because I go
13:22
Speaker 1: back and forth with luck. Yeah, I don't ever know
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Speaker 1: how I feel about it. Yeah, And I heard luck
13:26
Speaker 1: is like a bus.
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Speaker 2: You have to be at the bus station waiting to
13:30
Speaker 2: grab the bus.
13:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you miss it, another bus will come yep,
13:33
Speaker 1: but you got to be at the station still to
13:35
Speaker 1: grab it.
13:36
Speaker 2: Yeah.
13:36
Speaker 3: And if I love that, feel about it totally.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. When did you realize that being an EIC? Was it?
13:45
Speaker 2: Day one? So you know I love that.
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Speaker 3: Oh, it's just I mean, this is the best job,
13:51
Speaker 3: Like I have the best job. I mean, you have
13:53
Speaker 3: a great job. Y'all have great jobs. It's so citing,
14:00
Speaker 3: and you know, I get to do all these very cool.
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Speaker 2: Things this week alone.
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Speaker 3: You know, I have been at fashion shows for fashion Week.
14:09
Speaker 3: I ran down to DC on Tuesday to go to
14:12
Speaker 3: a party at the Vice President's house to hang out
14:14
Speaker 3: with a vice president and the second gentleman, you know, Doug.
14:17
Speaker 3: Don't hanging out with Doug, Doug, big dad energy leve.
14:22
Speaker 3: But you know, what a cool thing to be able
14:24
Speaker 3: to do. But beyond that, like, it's really I think
14:28
Speaker 3: that privilege, the privilege of being able to do things
14:31
Speaker 3: like that is really exciting. But what really gets me
14:33
Speaker 3: going is the storytelling we're able to do. All of
14:37
Speaker 3: the innovation and exploration that we're able to do. You know,
14:41
Speaker 3: it really surprised me coming into this job. But a
14:44
Speaker 3: job like mine is very self defined and self directed.
14:47
Speaker 3: You sort of imagine that all editors in chief do
14:50
Speaker 3: the same thing, but they don't. We're all very different
14:52
Speaker 3: about what we choose to prioritize, how we lead, and
14:57
Speaker 3: so the ability to invent new things for us to
15:01
Speaker 3: do all the time is really exciting to me. We
15:04
Speaker 3: just did the world's first artificially intelligent magazine cover and
15:08
Speaker 3: being able to partner with open Ai to do that,
15:10
Speaker 3: that was just something I wanted to do and that
15:12
Speaker 3: I thought would be really interesting for us. And so
15:16
Speaker 3: having the freedom to explore what's right for the brand,
15:19
Speaker 3: what's right for the audience, and invent it as you
15:21
Speaker 3: go is just so exciting to me.
15:24
Speaker 2: I really love it.
15:26
Speaker 1: I think one of the coolest things about your job is,
15:29
Speaker 1: and it's going off of part of what you said
15:31
Speaker 1: with storytelling, is that you get to help shape the
15:34
Speaker 1: hearts and minds of the next generation of women because
15:38
Speaker 1: what they're reading really informs who they want to become
15:41
Speaker 1: and what they want to set fire to the world about.
15:45
Speaker 1: And I I love learning that you studied older issues
15:48
Speaker 1: of Cosmo.
15:49
Speaker 2: So I didn't realize this, but the first issue.
15:51
Speaker 1: Came out in eighteen eighty six. Yes, is it the
15:54
Speaker 1: oldest women's magazine? Well, so, Cosmo has a really interesting history.
15:59
Speaker 3: Back then, before Helen Gurley Brown came along, Cosmo was
16:03
Speaker 3: a literary magazine.
16:04
Speaker 2: It was more broadly consumed.
16:06
Speaker 3: Amelia Earhart was the aviation editor of Cosmopolitan, so it
16:10
Speaker 3: had a really interesting history. By the sixties, it was
16:14
Speaker 3: flagging and my parent company Hurst Wasn't thought it needed
16:19
Speaker 3: a new direction. David Brown was working there at the time.
16:23
Speaker 3: That's Helen's husband and he after the publication of Sex
16:27
Speaker 3: and the Single Girl, which of course was a radically
16:30
Speaker 3: transformative book for our country, for our culture, David thought
16:35
Speaker 3: that Helen should bring that to Cosmo magative women's focused magazine,
16:40
Speaker 3: and so she came in and totally reinvented the brand,
16:43
Speaker 3: and I would argue, totally reinvented the trajectory of young
16:47
Speaker 3: women's lives in America. And so she built this massive
16:53
Speaker 3: brand with a ton of momentum, and I am lucky
16:56
Speaker 3: enough to get to, you know, keep moving it forward
17:01
Speaker 3: every day.
17:02
Speaker 1: So as I was looking at some of the older covers,
17:05
Speaker 1: I kept thinking that they are almost time stamps of
17:09
Speaker 1: where we are, where we're going. When you think about
17:14
Speaker 1: the mark that you want to leave with Cosmo and
17:17
Speaker 1: with this generation of women, what is that?
17:20
Speaker 2: Where do you want to take it?
17:22
Speaker 3: It's a big question. My goal is for young women
17:27
Speaker 3: to feel like Cosmo is theirs, that Cosmo is cool,
17:34
Speaker 3: they're cool, that Cosmo is smart and helps them be smart.
17:38
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting you were talking about the difference
17:40
Speaker 3: in audiences now versus in the past, in Cosmo's past,
17:44
Speaker 3: and one of the things that really excites me is
17:47
Speaker 3: that the content that young readers are increasingly interested in
17:52
Speaker 3: is the kind of content that I love most, which is,
17:55
Speaker 3: you know, investigative features, breaking news stories about how the
18:00
Speaker 3: things that impact you in your life, political reporting that
18:04
Speaker 3: is increasingly of interest to young women. That's really exciting
18:07
Speaker 3: to it is it's so exciting and so being able
18:11
Speaker 3: to help young women understand the world around them, understand
18:16
Speaker 3: how to manipulate that world to their benefit, which is,
18:19
Speaker 3: you know, what we.
18:20
Speaker 2: Have to do all day every day.
18:22
Speaker 3: If I can have done that at the end of
18:23
Speaker 3: the day, I will be able to rest easy.
18:28
Speaker 2: You will have major mark. Yeah, your timestamp.
18:31
Speaker 1: You, I can tell, are a very passionate person when
18:34
Speaker 1: it comes to your job, and I've heard you talk
18:38
Speaker 1: about passion in other interviews. You say it's an underutilized
18:41
Speaker 1: asset at work. I don't know what you mean. Can
18:46
Speaker 1: you explain why do you think it's underutilized and also
18:50
Speaker 1: how can you make sure that it comes through genuinely?
18:53
Speaker 2: Yeah?
18:54
Speaker 3: Great question. So I think it's underutilized, especially in the
18:58
Speaker 3: interview process.
19:00
Speaker 2: One thing I tell talk my language. Yeah.
19:03
Speaker 3: Well, so if you're interviewing for a job, Let's say
19:06
Speaker 3: one of the things that I tell young people. I
19:08
Speaker 3: love meeting with students. I do it as much as
19:10
Speaker 3: I possibly can. And every time I talk to a
19:12
Speaker 3: student and they're, you know, trying to get a job
19:14
Speaker 3: in the industry, I tell them to do this because
19:17
Speaker 3: I think it's critical and no one does it. Which is,
19:20
Speaker 3: when you are in an interview, tell the person you're
19:23
Speaker 3: talking to that you are passionate about their brand, that
19:26
Speaker 3: you love their brand, that you want to work there,
19:29
Speaker 3: that you you know, bring X y Z.
19:32
Speaker 2: It's so rare.
19:33
Speaker 3: I interview people all the time for jobs, and you'd
19:36
Speaker 3: be shocked at how few people say, I love this brand,
19:40
Speaker 3: I want this job. It's interesting, I think generationally, maybe
19:45
Speaker 3: people feel it's inappropriate, it's appost like play it cool. Yeah,
19:48
Speaker 3: maybe it's a play a cool thing. Maybe it's a
19:50
Speaker 3: I don't want to be a try hard thing. But
19:53
Speaker 3: passion matters. I am driven by passion. My team is
19:56
Speaker 3: driven by passion. You want to hire people who really
19:59
Speaker 3: care because those people bring so much interesting perspective, so
20:06
Speaker 3: much interesting energy to their work. Those are the people
20:11
Speaker 3: who feel ownership, who take responsibility. Those are the best
20:15
Speaker 3: people to work with, to work for, And so I
20:19
Speaker 3: think passion is critical.
20:20
Speaker 2: I really do. That's exciting to hear.
20:23
Speaker 1: Going off of that, when you talk about like being
20:27
Speaker 1: at the right place at the right time, so to speak,
20:30
Speaker 1: you have done and this is a bad way of
20:33
Speaker 1: putting this, but you have done a great job of
20:35
Speaker 1: getting promoted along the way.
20:37
Speaker 2: But do you know what I mean? Because you started
20:39
Speaker 2: as an assistant.
20:41
Speaker 1: And I say this because I also I love young women,
20:45
Speaker 1: and so any way I can help them, I try.
20:48
Speaker 1: And one of the most common things that people come
20:51
Speaker 1: to me with is that they're working in a corporate environment,
20:55
Speaker 1: regardless of industry.
20:56
Speaker 2: They're trying to get promoted.
20:58
Speaker 1: They're doing all the things everybody's telling them to, like
21:00
Speaker 1: go to their boss and say something and go above
21:03
Speaker 1: and beyond, and it's not happening. So what advice do
21:08
Speaker 1: you I don't know what to say to them?
21:09
Speaker 2: What do you say?
21:10
Speaker 3: Okay, I have a couple of specifics here, Okay, I
21:13
Speaker 3: love it. So the first is to start really effectively
21:19
Speaker 3: managing up, and I specifically mean making sure that your
21:23
Speaker 3: boss is aware of your successes. So one of the
21:26
Speaker 3: things that I think is a big misconception for young
21:28
Speaker 3: people and for all of us really is that you
21:32
Speaker 3: assume that your boss sees everything you do, knows everything
21:37
Speaker 3: you're doing. But the truth is that your boss is very,
21:39
Speaker 3: very busy. That's why you're there, and they're not keeping
21:42
Speaker 3: eyes on your work at all times. Only you are right.
21:45
Speaker 3: And so if you have a success that your boss
21:48
Speaker 3: doesn't know about, did the success even really happen? So
21:52
Speaker 3: what I encourage people to do is with me, I'm like,
21:57
Speaker 3: slack me. If there's something that you're proud of, if
21:59
Speaker 3: there's some thing that is you know, if you published
22:02
Speaker 3: a story and it performed really well, or if it
22:04
Speaker 3: performed really badly and it taught you something about next time,
22:07
Speaker 3: I'm going to do XYZ thing, let me hear that stuff.
22:10
Speaker 3: So I think one thing is that young people in
22:14
Speaker 3: this industry and a lot of industries, are not vocal
22:16
Speaker 3: enough with their bosses about their day to day work.
22:19
Speaker 3: I don't mean going to your boss and saying I
22:21
Speaker 3: want a promotion. I am talking specifically about making sure
22:24
Speaker 3: they know the wins that you're having. And ideally you
22:28
Speaker 3: can communicate this stuff in a way to them that
22:30
Speaker 3: is lightweight for them. If they don't have time to respond,
22:33
Speaker 3: they don't have to. It's more of just a steady
22:36
Speaker 3: drumbeat of awareness, like you could email them and say totally, hey,
22:40
Speaker 3: I did this thing, just wanted you to see it.
22:42
Speaker 3: So I think that's really important. I think you know,
22:45
Speaker 3: being proactive, like, yes, that's a great general direction if
22:49
Speaker 3: you're looking to be promoted, but I think you can
22:51
Speaker 3: do it more specifically. And the way I would suggest
22:54
Speaker 3: that people do it is to identify a problem in
22:58
Speaker 3: their workplace on their own, and then identify a potential solution,
23:06
Speaker 3: maybe a couple of potential solutions for that problem, and
23:09
Speaker 3: then bring them to your boss low stakes and just say,
23:13
Speaker 3: because again, your boss is dealing with a lot of
23:15
Speaker 3: problems all the time, don't bring her another problem. But
23:18
Speaker 3: if you can say to her, hey, by the way,
23:21
Speaker 3: I noticed this and it occurred to me that maybe
23:24
Speaker 3: we could do this. And if you are presenting a
23:28
Speaker 3: problem and a solution that your boss can just say yes, two,
23:33
Speaker 3: you then become someone who makes her life better, who
23:35
Speaker 3: makes her life easier, but more importantly, who brings value
23:37
Speaker 3: to the brand. So I think that's one thing. And
23:40
Speaker 3: then one more thing is that if you can show
23:43
Speaker 3: your boss that you have an eye on the culture
23:46
Speaker 3: of where you are, that really really matters. There are
23:50
Speaker 3: a lot of people that I work with on my
23:52
Speaker 3: team who are really thoughtful about our culture, who will suggest,
23:58
Speaker 3: you know, hey, let's do a happy hour at this place,
24:01
Speaker 3: or I want to start a softball league for our team,
24:04
Speaker 3: or let's organize a volunteering day around reproductive justice. Having
24:09
Speaker 3: people like that on your team who are helping you
24:12
Speaker 3: think about the team.
24:13
Speaker 2: Is so so beneficial.
24:16
Speaker 3: So I think if you can do any of those
24:18
Speaker 3: three things, where ideally all of those three things in
24:20
Speaker 3: concert you have promote me stamped on your forehead, those
24:25
Speaker 3: are three of.
24:26
Speaker 1: The most detailed and practical things I have heard. Thank
24:29
Speaker 1: you for sharing that, no problem. I think that's actually
24:31
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's helpful.
24:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I want these young people to fantastic.
24:38
Speaker 3: Thank you.
24:39
Speaker 2: What's something you didn't know about your job until after
24:41
Speaker 2: you said.
24:41
Speaker 3: Yes, oh my goodness. Definitely the self definition thing that
24:47
Speaker 3: you have to sort of come in and define it,
24:49
Speaker 3: that you have to you have to figure out how
24:52
Speaker 3: it operates, what the value of it is. That was
24:56
Speaker 3: really surprising to me. I think when you're being led
24:59
Speaker 3: by a you just assume that they have it all
25:02
Speaker 3: figured out, that they know exactly what they're doing, but
25:05
Speaker 3: the truth is that you have to sort of define
25:07
Speaker 3: it on the fly. So that was definitely new for me.
25:09
Speaker 3: I think also just how expansive the job is and
25:12
Speaker 3: can be. One of the things that I love about
25:15
Speaker 3: Cosmo that I talk to, you know, job applicants for
25:20
Speaker 3: Cosmo about, is the fact that we're a really big
25:22
Speaker 3: sandbox because we're a really big brand. We're reaching sixty
25:25
Speaker 3: one million readers every month, you know, we have a
25:28
Speaker 3: robust presence on every platform, and so that means that
25:33
Speaker 3: we get to play with everything. I'm obsessed with TikTok.
25:36
Speaker 3: It's where our audience increasingly is. I think that TikTok
25:40
Speaker 3: is where young women culture is evolving the fastest, and
25:44
Speaker 3: so I get to play with TikTok. We have an
25:46
Speaker 3: amazing emerging platforms director who leads our TikTok efforts, but
25:50
Speaker 3: I get to like play with it with her, and
25:52
Speaker 3: that is so fun and interesting. On the other hand,
25:54
Speaker 3: I get to edit a long form investigative feature and
25:59
Speaker 3: so the the variety of it is y'all able to
26:03
Speaker 3: be that hands on I am.
26:06
Speaker 2: I am amazing.
26:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think I sort of have to be.
26:09
Speaker 3: I think good leaders thread the needle toe the line
26:13
Speaker 3: of being involved enough to understand what the problems are
26:17
Speaker 3: everywhere to have theories about what the solutions might be everywhere.
26:21
Speaker 3: But on the same you know, let's say, flip side
26:25
Speaker 3: of that coin is that they also need to hire
26:28
Speaker 3: people who are passionate, invested, you know, will take responsibility
26:33
Speaker 3: and to let those people be experts and to take
26:36
Speaker 3: their advice. You know. One thing that I have tried to,
26:40
Speaker 3: you know, be better about and that I think is
26:43
Speaker 3: really important and that I think is part of our
26:45
Speaker 3: success at Cosmo is all of these people are incredible experts,
26:49
Speaker 3: and they have great you know, instincts, great awareness because
26:55
Speaker 3: they're informed by their audiences. I need to listen to
26:59
Speaker 3: them if their advice me on something. They're the ones
27:01
Speaker 3: who are closest, most connected to the thing that they're doing,
27:04
Speaker 3: the audience they're doing it for. I need to hear
27:07
Speaker 3: them and to take their advisement as much as I
27:10
Speaker 3: am dictating what direction we should be going in.
27:14
Speaker 2: If that makes sense it does.
27:16
Speaker 1: What's your take on sort of this new age version
27:20
Speaker 1: of an editor in chief becoming a personality themselves.
27:25
Speaker 3: I have to say it's not really my thing. I
27:27
Speaker 3: am not like I like the work.
27:31
Speaker 2: I feel that from me.
27:34
Speaker 3: You're like, you're uncomfortable in this interview.
27:35
Speaker 2: No, the very opposite. The reason I asked that wasn't
27:39
Speaker 2: on our outline.
27:40
Speaker 1: The reason I ask is because I feel that from
27:42
Speaker 1: you and I value that so much.
27:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just like there are editors who and again
27:48
Speaker 3: this comes down to the self definition thing. Some editors
27:51
Speaker 3: feel like the biggest value they can bring to their
27:53
Speaker 3: brand is being out there on camera, being a personality,
27:57
Speaker 3: being an influencer, and that is true for them in
28:00
Speaker 3: their brands. For me, it's more about, you know, being creative,
28:06
Speaker 3: helping us think of the next big exciting thing, driving
28:09
Speaker 3: us forward, leading with excitement and enthusiasm. That's what matters
28:15
Speaker 3: to me. And doing the work. I really do love
28:17
Speaker 3: the work. I really do.
28:18
Speaker 2: Love to edit.
28:19
Speaker 3: I think, you know, making a story better is just
28:22
Speaker 3: the most satisfying thing in the entire world. And so
28:25
Speaker 3: some of my value is as an actual editor, and
28:28
Speaker 3: so's the passion.
28:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard you say this in an interview. You
28:34
Speaker 1: deserve to know what rubric you're being graded against. I
28:36
Speaker 1: think so many of us want feedback, maybe not on
28:39
Speaker 1: social media, but.
28:40
Speaker 2: Like in real life, feedback. I think it's rare to
28:42
Speaker 2: get good feedback, even to say what's.
28:46
Speaker 1: Your advice for like, in terms of asking for meaningful feedback.
28:52
Speaker 3: So I think there's something tricky here, which is that,
28:56
Speaker 3: you know, anyone who wants to evolve in their career,
28:59
Speaker 3: anyone who wants to be promoted, should be asking for
29:02
Speaker 3: and getting a lot of feedback. I think a lot
29:05
Speaker 3: of us, myself included, when we say we want feedback,
29:09
Speaker 3: what we mean is that we want positive feedback.
29:12
Speaker 2: I really we want reinforcements.
29:14
Speaker 3: Yes, we want compliments, thank you, But the truth is
29:17
Speaker 3: that evolution comes from the critical feedback, right. The thing
29:20
Speaker 3: is that we're all in a place where, you know,
29:23
Speaker 3: my team and I are really focused on making sure
29:27
Speaker 3: that this is a happy, healthy work environment. We want
29:30
Speaker 3: everyone to enjoy their jobs. We want everyone to bring
29:34
Speaker 3: genuine passion to work every day, and that means not
29:37
Speaker 3: crushing them in the process, not overworking anyone. You know.
29:41
Speaker 3: That's that's stuff that we focus on a lot, and
29:43
Speaker 3: I think our industry has evolved a lot in that
29:46
Speaker 3: regard in the past ten fifteen years. But what it
29:49
Speaker 3: means is that I see a lot of managers who
29:53
Speaker 3: are worried about giving critical feedback because they worry it
29:56
Speaker 3: won't be received well, it'll hurt their feelings, it'll mean
29:59
Speaker 3: they're not excpt to come to work tomorrow. And so
30:02
Speaker 3: we have to find ways to do both to give
30:05
Speaker 3: constructive critical feedback, but to do it in a way
30:07
Speaker 3: that doesn't crush the spirit. So that's a sort of
30:10
Speaker 3: tricky thing about management in twenty twenty two in an
30:12
Speaker 3: industry like this, I think. But so, what you can
30:15
Speaker 3: do as an employee is you can set the stage
30:19
Speaker 3: for your boss, for the person you're asking feedback from.
30:22
Speaker 2: You can make sure they know that you are ready.
30:25
Speaker 3: To hear critical feedback, and that you want to hear
30:28
Speaker 3: critical feedback, and that you will be a safe space
30:31
Speaker 3: for them to deliver critical feedback. If you set that stage,
30:35
Speaker 3: you will get so much more honest feedback from your boss.
30:39
Speaker 3: And honesty is the thing that we all need, right
30:41
Speaker 3: But like your boss is probably these days just as
30:47
Speaker 3: nervous to give you bad feedback as you are to
30:49
Speaker 3: receive it. And I think if you can make it
30:52
Speaker 3: easier for them, that'll make you seem more mature. It'll
30:55
Speaker 3: make you seem like you are invested in your work
31:01
Speaker 3: and in the company, but it'll also get you the truth.
31:05
Speaker 1: I think editorial is really unique in that it's one
31:09
Speaker 1: of the only majority female industries.
31:13
Speaker 2: I would say I was thinking about publishing. Yeah, that's
31:16
Speaker 2: probably also.
31:17
Speaker 1: I can't think of anything else really, like even the
31:19
Speaker 1: hair and makeup world isn't nowadays. Then I was thinking
31:22
Speaker 1: back to your time in ballet, which was also very
31:26
Speaker 1: female forward. Have you always gravitated towards world like that
31:31
Speaker 1: or tell me just talk to me more about that.
31:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's interesting the ballet world is largely
31:39
Speaker 3: populated by women. You know. Male ballet dancers are far
31:42
Speaker 3: more rare, such that Actually, my first role in The
31:45
Speaker 3: Nutcracker when I was young was to be a party boy.
31:49
Speaker 3: I was a little boy at the party scene. That's
31:52
Speaker 3: how a lot of girls start playing for fame. Totally
31:54
Speaker 3: wig the works, But you know, ballet. An exciting thing
31:59
Speaker 3: about the ballet world is that more and more of
32:01
Speaker 3: the leadership, and this is very new, more and more
32:03
Speaker 3: of the leadership is female. ABT has a new female CEO,
32:07
Speaker 3: Janet Role. I just met with her and she's amazing,
32:10
Speaker 3: So that's an exciting thing to see there. But yes,
32:13
Speaker 3: I think a real part of the reason that I
32:16
Speaker 3: ended up in media is because I saw Cindy sit
32:19
Speaker 3: at the table with the executives. I saw her have
32:23
Speaker 3: real authority and autonomy. I saw her be respected. Prior
32:27
Speaker 3: to this, I had wanted to be a film director.
32:30
Speaker 3: I went to film school, and that's a very different world,
32:33
Speaker 3: very male, still very hard to break through that glass ceiling.
32:36
Speaker 3: And seeing Cindy be taken seriously was just so attractive
32:40
Speaker 3: to me. So I did jump feet first into this
32:44
Speaker 3: all female world. I don't know that I realized how
32:49
Speaker 3: that would play out until me too happened and everyone
32:53
Speaker 3: was re examining their pasts, you know, looking back at
32:56
Speaker 3: their own moments of that kind of where place situation,
33:02
Speaker 3: and I didn't have anything. I was like, huh, incredible.
33:05
Speaker 3: I've never had a moment like that myself at the workplace.
33:08
Speaker 3: But I realized, oh, it's because I've always only ever
33:11
Speaker 3: worked for women.
33:13
Speaker 2: Fascinating.
33:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, working in all female environments means that you are
33:17
Speaker 3: You're really able to bring your full self to work
33:20
Speaker 3: in a way that still just delights me. You know.
33:24
Speaker 3: We get to talk about periods and dating and sex
33:28
Speaker 3: and like the unique challenges, the unique victories of womanhood
33:35
Speaker 3: and that's important for our work and critical to our work.
33:37
Speaker 3: So you know, if you break up with your boyfriend
33:39
Speaker 3: and you're devastated about it, bringing that to work is actually.
33:42
Speaker 2: A helpful thing, a good thing, and you get to
33:44
Speaker 2: right about it.
33:45
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I feel like we're sort of like a
33:47
Speaker 3: coven where womanhood is really celebrated in all its forms,
33:52
Speaker 3: and I think that is really unique and special.
33:55
Speaker 1: Do you have a story that you're most proud of
33:57
Speaker 1: publishing since becoming editor in chief?
34:00
Speaker 3: So I am lucky enough do the nature of our
34:03
Speaker 3: work that we're constantly publishing stories I'm proud of. And
34:06
Speaker 3: so the answer to that question changes basically every month.
34:10
Speaker 3: We just shipped our mental health issue. It's our first
34:13
Speaker 3: ever mental health issue. Mental health obviously is a very
34:17
Speaker 3: important topic.
34:18
Speaker 2: It's something that doesn't get talked about enough.
34:20
Speaker 3: It's gotten more airtime in recent years, but still we
34:23
Speaker 3: can do better, and so as a brand, we wanted
34:26
Speaker 3: to really throw our weight behind the topic, and so
34:29
Speaker 3: we did a story a feature in that issue, edited
34:31
Speaker 3: by our features director Aaron Quinlan, about now this will
34:35
Speaker 3: sound really technical, but about compounding collective trauma and what
34:41
Speaker 3: I mean by that is the phenomenon of living through
34:46
Speaker 3: mass terrifying event on top of mass terrifying event, on
34:50
Speaker 3: top of mass terrifying.
34:51
Speaker 2: Event, et cetera.
34:52
Speaker 3: And so we explore that issue through the lens of
34:54
Speaker 3: a group of young women who survived in mass shooting
34:58
Speaker 3: and then the next day survived wildfire. So they were
35:03
Speaker 3: It's yes, and it's an incredibly moving story. I cried
35:06
Speaker 3: several times while editing it, as I often do, But
35:10
Speaker 3: you know, the resilience of these women, but moreover, their
35:13
Speaker 3: real candor in talking about what it is like to
35:18
Speaker 3: survive that and to be on the other side of it.
35:20
Speaker 3: It's really moving, it's really inspiring. Stories like that are
35:23
Speaker 3: so important to me. They help destigmatize trauma. They help
35:27
Speaker 3: make you feel like, if what I'm going through, you know,
35:31
Speaker 3: pales in comparison to what they went through and they're
35:33
Speaker 3: still doing fine, now, maybe I can make it through
35:35
Speaker 3: this thing. I think storytelling like that is really important.
35:38
Speaker 4: That's so fascinating too, because that's like a almost like
35:42
Speaker 4: an anecdote that can be understood on a larger scale,
35:46
Speaker 4: like I think millennials lived through total elective trauma and.
35:49
Speaker 3: A lot totally you know, we were sort of born
35:51
Speaker 3: into nine to eleven COVID too, economic recessions. Like, we've
35:57
Speaker 3: been through a lot as a generation. It's informed a
35:59
Speaker 3: lot of art, the way we approach life, the way
36:01
Speaker 3: we approach work, and so being able to talk about
36:04
Speaker 3: that really honestly is so exciting and important and valuable.
36:09
Speaker 2: It's almost like you were an anthropology major in your
36:11
Speaker 2: past life or something I should have been. Maybe I
36:13
Speaker 2: should have been. Okay, Cosmo is known for sex tips.
36:17
Speaker 1: I think I probably first read about sex and Cosmo.
36:20
Speaker 1: What types of conversations have you had with your staff
36:23
Speaker 1: in terms of modernizing that conversation, because it's definitely shifted.
36:27
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you. I'm glad that you have noticed. Yeah,
36:30
Speaker 3: you know, this is the beauty of working with young
36:32
Speaker 3: women is that it's not It's not like I call
36:36
Speaker 3: a meeting and I'm like, hey, guys, we need to
36:38
Speaker 3: talk about how we can modernize our sex content. It
36:41
Speaker 3: comes from them, Like, you know, one of the things
36:44
Speaker 3: we all care about is making the brand much less heteronormative.
36:47
Speaker 3: It has a long legacy of you know, being about
36:51
Speaker 3: as we know, how to please your man. Things are
36:53
Speaker 3: different now, thank god, But it's you know, it comes
36:57
Speaker 3: from them in regards to let's do a story about
37:01
Speaker 3: you know, ableism in a sex space, and let's make
37:04
Speaker 3: sure that we're talking about, you know, when we're doing
37:07
Speaker 3: our sketches for our sex positions, let's make sure that
37:11
Speaker 3: at least some of them are same sex partnerships. So
37:14
Speaker 3: a lot of it comes from them, and I think
37:17
Speaker 3: that's really amazing. It's really reflective of how young women
37:20
Speaker 3: are now, how young women think. You know, future generations
37:23
Speaker 3: are more inclusive, more representative than prior generations are, and
37:27
Speaker 3: this stuff is just expected. This is what they really
37:30
Speaker 3: expect and demand from us, and so rising to that
37:35
Speaker 3: occasion shouldn't be hard anymore.
37:38
Speaker 2: And it's not.
37:39
Speaker 3: It's just like breathing for us. Really.
37:42
Speaker 2: I agree, that's so cool.
37:46
Speaker 1: Many people have had some doom and gloom stats about
37:50
Speaker 1: the publishing industry and physical magazines.
37:52
Speaker 2: You just mentioned an AI cover.
37:55
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of people move to digital only covers.
38:00
Speaker 1: Where do you think we're headed in terms of that?
38:03
Speaker 3: So there is no form of media and I'm eager
38:08
Speaker 3: to be proved wrong, but there is no form of
38:10
Speaker 3: major media anyway that ever actually dies out right, like
38:15
Speaker 3: think about your medium did not kill the radio. Radio
38:20
Speaker 3: is still around. Radio is still valuable. There is still
38:22
Speaker 3: a use case for radio, right. There will always be
38:25
Speaker 3: a use case for podcasts. And I really believe and
38:28
Speaker 3: have seen the data the habits to prove it that
38:32
Speaker 3: there will always be a use case for magazines. I
38:35
Speaker 3: think our challenge as an industry is rising to the
38:37
Speaker 3: occasion of that use case, being really smart and pragmatic
38:40
Speaker 3: about what that use case is For us at Cosmo.
38:44
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting.
38:44
Speaker 3: I think in many ways, ours was a magazine that
38:48
Speaker 3: people used to hide under their beds, and my goal
38:52
Speaker 3: is for us to be a magazine that people proudly
38:55
Speaker 3: display on their coffee table. And that's the evolution that
38:58
Speaker 3: we are undergoing need to undergo. We've just sort of
39:01
Speaker 3: relaunched the magazine in that effort, and I'm really excited
39:06
Speaker 3: with how it's performing. Actually, a fun little tidbit is that,
39:10
Speaker 3: you know, one of the things I love to do
39:11
Speaker 3: is experiment with our more legacy forms of media. I
39:15
Speaker 3: love to make print feel new and exciting and to
39:19
Speaker 3: really bring it to life in new ways. And so
39:21
Speaker 3: one of the things we did with our first issue
39:23
Speaker 3: this year with Sidney Sweeney on the cover is it's
39:26
Speaker 3: a blue dir kind of photo shoot. It's really gorgeous, obviously,
39:31
Speaker 3: and so I decided to hide a little handwritten phone
39:33
Speaker 3: number in the pages of her cover story, as though
39:37
Speaker 3: she was leaving you a little note to call her.
39:40
Speaker 3: And I worked with my husband actually to code something
39:44
Speaker 3: on the back end so that for anyone who finds
39:46
Speaker 3: and calls that phone number, and I encourage you to
39:48
Speaker 3: find and call that phone number, you get a voicemail
39:50
Speaker 3: from Sydney Sweeney. Cute fine, so like cool and innovative.
39:55
Speaker 3: It's just a fun little thing. I didn't you know,
39:57
Speaker 3: I wanted it to do.
39:58
Speaker 2: It exactly is.
40:00
Speaker 3: An easter egg for her fans, for anyone who comes
40:03
Speaker 3: upon it, a surprise and delight moment. Right. So something
40:06
Speaker 3: really interesting came of that, which is that you know,
40:09
Speaker 3: on the back end, I can see the data of
40:12
Speaker 3: who's calling in, how many people are calling in, when
40:14
Speaker 3: they're calling in. That issue came out in February, right.
40:18
Speaker 3: My hope again was to create a magazine that people
40:21
Speaker 3: would be proud to leave on their coffee tables, not
40:23
Speaker 3: to immediately recycle, not to.
40:25
Speaker 2: Hide, but to display.
40:27
Speaker 3: And something really really cool has happened, which is that
40:31
Speaker 3: we still are getting phone calls every single day to
40:36
Speaker 3: that phone number. And what that tells me is the
40:39
Speaker 3: issue which came out, you know, five issues ago, is
40:42
Speaker 3: still hanging around, it's still being engaged with, and it's
40:47
Speaker 3: still exciting to the people who pick it up. And
40:49
Speaker 3: so that is really promising to me, and it's really
40:53
Speaker 3: exciting to me about the future of the industry. I
40:55
Speaker 3: think we just have to be really smart about what
40:59
Speaker 3: the use case is for print magazines and what the
41:02
Speaker 3: value is of print that digital can't provide. You know,
41:05
Speaker 3: there are things print can do that is better the
41:08
Speaker 3: immersion of beautiful imagery. Digital isn't great at that, It's
41:12
Speaker 3: just not yeah.
41:14
Speaker 1: Right.
41:14
Speaker 2: I love the smell of a magazine totally.
41:16
Speaker 3: I love getting my issues every month, and it's just
41:19
Speaker 3: it's an experience, right, Yeah. And so that is a
41:22
Speaker 3: unique offering that print magazines have that that digital doesn't,
41:26
Speaker 3: and I think just make leaning, leaning really hard into
41:30
Speaker 3: that value that advantage.
41:32
Speaker 2: I think that's the future.
41:33
Speaker 1: Do you I always wonder because I love books and
41:35
Speaker 1: I love print, I love words, and like, am I
41:39
Speaker 1: an anomaly?
41:39
Speaker 2: Do I want something in print? Or do you think
41:42
Speaker 2: other people are craving this.
41:43
Speaker 1: Yes.
41:44
Speaker 3: You know, one of the things that I love about
41:45
Speaker 3: young women, that I love about our audience is that
41:47
Speaker 3: they're really smart and savvy about their mental health. You know,
41:52
Speaker 3: what is hygienic for them in terms of their consumption habits.
41:56
Speaker 3: And you know, we see young women quit social media
41:59
Speaker 3: all the time. Take us social media break monitor there,
42:02
Speaker 3: you know, time spent on their phones. And so I
42:05
Speaker 3: see a lot of interest in you know, I need
42:08
Speaker 3: some time for myself that is unplugging and that feels nourishing.
42:13
Speaker 3: And one of the things that's really interesting about you know,
42:15
Speaker 3: I work for every platform I see. I see how
42:17
Speaker 3: every platform is engaged with by consumers. And the thing
42:21
Speaker 3: is that the idea that you're controlling the time you
42:25
Speaker 3: spend on your phone is a fallacy. You're not your
42:30
Speaker 3: phone is controlling you because you go on your phone
42:32
Speaker 3: and you want to do something, and then you get
42:34
Speaker 3: a push notification from your mom texting you, and so
42:38
Speaker 3: then you jump to your mom texting you, and then
42:40
Speaker 3: you see this other thing and then you go over
42:41
Speaker 3: there and look at that, and then you find yourself,
42:44
Speaker 3: you know, three hours later coming out of a TikTok hole,
42:46
Speaker 3: which happens to me all the time. So you're not
42:48
Speaker 3: really in control in that space, and it's really hard
42:51
Speaker 3: to have an immersive experience of any kind because you're
42:54
Speaker 3: being pulled in so many different directions.
42:56
Speaker 2: Print, however, has.
42:58
Speaker 3: You in charge, right, And I see young women really
43:03
Speaker 3: crave that kind of experience more and more in their lives,
43:06
Speaker 3: especially as they get older. I see young women look
43:09
Speaker 3: for opportunities to be in control, to feel like they
43:14
Speaker 3: are determining how their time is being spent, how they
43:17
Speaker 3: feel about it, and I think Print is, you know,
43:20
Speaker 3: can be an important part of that process.
43:22
Speaker 2: I am so happy to hear that. I love Print.
43:27
Speaker 1: So we have to talk about astrology because you locked
43:30
Speaker 1: in here and you asked me if I.
43:31
Speaker 2: Was a virgo and I was like, Oh, this.
43:33
Speaker 3: Woman lives and breathes her magazine. It's true.
43:38
Speaker 1: So horoscopes have always been a big thing for Cosmo,
43:41
Speaker 1: still are Yeah, So how do you see them, like,
43:44
Speaker 1: as editor in chief, how do you see it playing
43:46
Speaker 1: out with readers?
43:47
Speaker 3: So Cosmo made it, you know, made some waves when
43:51
Speaker 3: it published Bedside Astrologer was a really big deal for
43:54
Speaker 3: Cosmo for a long time, and it was sort of
43:56
Speaker 3: like you know sex by way of zodiac, which is
43:59
Speaker 3: a really cool idea. So I did come into a
44:02
Speaker 3: brand that had a strong footprint in astrology already, but
44:06
Speaker 3: I came into this brand at a time when astrology
44:09
Speaker 3: had a massive boom with millennials on the Internet, and
44:13
Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of reasons for that. I,
44:17
Speaker 3: much to my husband's chagrin, I do really love astrology.
44:20
Speaker 3: I find it to be a very helpful way to
44:23
Speaker 3: understand the people around me, to understand myself. For me,
44:27
Speaker 3: it's more about personality traits than it is about, say,
44:30
Speaker 3: predicting the future. You know, my husband is a tourist,
44:33
Speaker 3: and my god, he's such a.
44:35
Speaker 2: Touring it's like Meyers Briggs for you totally.
44:38
Speaker 3: That's cool, yes, exactly, and I find it really helpful.
44:41
Speaker 3: So you know, I'm a millennial too who got swept
44:45
Speaker 3: up in this movement that was very pro astrology.
44:48
Speaker 2: And we really leaned in.
44:51
Speaker 3: We have a senior astrology editor, so we have a
44:56
Speaker 3: dedicated astrology beat. She's publishing stories all the time. Astrology is,
45:01
Speaker 3: you know, continuing to grow for us in terms of
45:04
Speaker 3: scale with our audience, so it's not going anywhere, and
45:08
Speaker 3: I'm pretty happy about that awesome.
45:11
Speaker 1: Okay, I do some rapid fire before we end. These
45:14
Speaker 1: were fun to come up with for you. The celebrit
45:17
Speaker 1: were most stars struck by I don't even like that word,
45:20
Speaker 1: but somebody that like really impacted you on set.
45:23
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris. Can I ask you why?
45:26
Speaker 3: Obviously she's brilliant, yeah, but her ability to inspire at
45:32
Speaker 3: the drop of a hat, I've never seen it before
45:34
Speaker 3: in my life. She came through the Cosmo offices a
45:37
Speaker 3: few years ago during the election and I interviewed her
45:40
Speaker 3: for a series called Candidates Come to Cosmo, and we
45:43
Speaker 3: had a format for the show and our own rapid fire,
45:46
Speaker 3: and you know, at the end, she's taking her mic off,
45:49
Speaker 3: we're wrapping. She's a very important person. She's got places
45:52
Speaker 3: to be. She hung out with us and gave an
45:56
Speaker 3: impromptu speech to our staff that we were just like,
46:01
Speaker 3: oh my god, Yes it was. It was about not
46:05
Speaker 3: taking no for an answer. It was about not letting
46:08
Speaker 3: the world treat you young woman differently because you're a
46:11
Speaker 3: young woman. It was about claiming your space. And you know,
46:18
Speaker 3: sometimes I go back and just watch that footage because
46:20
Speaker 3: it's just really helpful to see. So she's incredibly inspiring
46:24
Speaker 3: and it just sort of oozes out of her.
46:27
Speaker 2: Thanks for sharing that.
46:29
Speaker 3: Your best habit healthy skepticism, interesting for somebody who loves astrology.
46:37
Speaker 2: What about your worst habit being late? You weren't late today.
46:43
Speaker 2: Thank you.
46:43
Speaker 3: Thank you for saying that on the record.
46:45
Speaker 2: So that a lesson.
46:48
Speaker 1: Also, you have a lot going on. A lesson that
46:50
Speaker 1: you've learned from the generation below you at Cosmo.
46:53
Speaker 3: That the workplace canon should accept you as you are.
46:59
Speaker 2: A lesson that you've learned from the generation above you
47:01
Speaker 2: at Cosmo.
47:03
Speaker 3: That the workplace can be a really valuable way to
47:07
Speaker 3: explore who you want to be.
47:10
Speaker 2: Something you've learned from another editor in chief the fashion jacket.
47:14
Speaker 3: Instead of putting your arms through the blazer sleeves, you
47:17
Speaker 3: just drape it over your shoulders.
47:20
Speaker 2: Sometimes I do that and then it falls off my shoulder.
47:22
Speaker 3: Fair enough you have.
47:24
Speaker 2: To walk like veryally. Yes, but it looks very goo.
47:27
Speaker 2: It's worth it, worth it.
47:28
Speaker 1: One thing you'd like to see the editorial industry shift
47:32
Speaker 1: or change.
47:33
Speaker 2: More ambition about the future. That's a great answer. A
47:37
Speaker 2: book that changed your life that you think everybody should read.
47:40
Speaker 3: The Outlaw Bible of American Poetry. Why It's just incredible.
47:47
Speaker 3: It totally blew my world open. I had been reading
47:50
Speaker 3: a lot of poetry and encountered this.
47:53
Speaker 2: This was back in high school.
47:54
Speaker 3: A lot of it is from the new Eurekan, you know,
47:56
Speaker 3: spoken poetry tradition and eating really irreverent poetry sort of blew.
48:04
Speaker 2: My mind's cool. Okay, I do a pretty smart question.
48:08
Speaker 1: Okay, So I always think that people choose the question
48:11
Speaker 1: that they're meant to or drawn to. So whatever you feel,
48:16
Speaker 1: wherever your fingers or your eyes lead you.
48:18
Speaker 2: It's like a tarot reading, yes, except for I'm not
48:21
Speaker 2: sure I have powers.
48:22
Speaker 3: But I think I'm going to go with this one.
48:24
Speaker 3: Should I look at it?
48:24
Speaker 1: Yeah?
48:25
Speaker 2: Please?
48:25
Speaker 3: Okay, what do you want to be known for?
48:29
Speaker 2: So interesting?
48:30
Speaker 3: That's a big one. That's such a big one. I
48:33
Speaker 3: think I have to answer this in a few ways. Okay,
48:37
Speaker 3: I would love to be known for helping to nurture talent,
48:45
Speaker 3: helping to create a space where young women feel really
48:53
Speaker 3: valued and feel really powerful, but also are really powerful.
49:01
Speaker 2: You're give me chills. That's a really important distinction, not
49:06
Speaker 2: just feel it.
49:08
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
49:08
Speaker 2: They get to be truly powerful.
49:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
49:12
Speaker 2: I feel like that's maybe how Cindy. Yeah, empowered you guys, Yeah.
49:16
Speaker 3: I felt very empowered. That's absolutely true.
49:19
Speaker 1: Okay, last question, whatever comes to your mind the smartest
49:22
Speaker 1: decision you've ever made.
49:23
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a hard question. It's such a hard question.
49:29
Speaker 3: Maybe it goes back to that summer when I was fourteen,
49:33
Speaker 3: because it led to me being here on this couch
49:36
Speaker 3: right now.
49:37
Speaker 2: It was a bed on yourself. Thank you for having me,
49:40
Speaker 2: Thank you for coming.
49:46
Speaker 1: I want to thank the people that make the show possible.
49:49
Speaker 1: Colleen O'Neill, Jill Salama, Carrie O'Keefe, and Phil speed Tech. Okay,
49:54
Speaker 1: you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
49:57
Speaker 1: To have a good day. I'll see you next week.
50:01
Speaker 3: Stop Slap Step Shop.