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Looking for Joy in All the Right Places with Dr. Kelly McGonigal · I Choose Me with Jennie Garth

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Gerber. Welcome
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: to I Choose Me. One thing I hear from you
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: all again and again is that you're just trying to
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: find happiness in your life and ways within the inevitable
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: chaos of life to put yourself first. My guest, Dr.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Kelly McGonigal, believes that. that you can do just this
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: by risking joy. What does that even mean, you ask? Well,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: we're about to find out. Let's dive in with Dr.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Kelly McGonigal.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Your book, Joy is a Risk, worth taking is out.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Congratulations.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Why is joy a risk? You know, for
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: a lot of people, when they feel good, joy is
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: that feeling of being uplifted. by something that connects you
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: to what makes life worth living. And for a lot
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: of people, when they start to feel good in that way,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: good about themselves, good about life, feeling hopeful or feeling
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: close to others, they can start to feel unsafe or
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: scared or even a little bit guilty. Oh man.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: The being happy guilt.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Like maybe who am I to be happy? Will this last? Um,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: What happens when something goes wrong? Should my attention be
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: on avoiding problems rather than savoring this moment? And so
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: when that emotion arises, sometimes rather than letting ourselves really
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: savor it and understand what it means and appreciate the
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: good moment, we can push that feeling down or push
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: it away to try to protect ourselves.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: From a letdown or disappointment.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Or the feelings of guilt that come up. We
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: just don't, that feels uncomfortable. And so we think, well,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to put my attention on something else.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Now I'm going to help someone else, or I'm going
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: to take care of the next thing on my to-do list.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I felt, I felt that before the guilt of being happy,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: having joy in my life when others don't.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And sometimes we feel like the, the appropriate thing
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: to do when other people are struggling is is to
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: be in solidarity with their pain or with their suffering.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: To be a good person means to really put our
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: attention on what's wrong. The way that I think about it,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: what people want, even when life is difficult, are these
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: moments of joy, when we feel hopeful or close to
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: others or excited about life. And so in some ways,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: when we get the chance to appreciate life in that way,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: it's so important to allow ourselves to do that because
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: It's actually what humans crave. Yep. It's so true. Okay.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I have a listener who is going through the ringer, grief, heartbreak, burnout,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: just a really difficult season. And you are the perfect
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: person to help her begin letting joy back in. So
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: if you wouldn't mind, let's hear from our friend, Laura.
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  Speaker 3: Hi, my name is Laura McNamara. I've had a lot
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: of things going on and I'm trying to just figure
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: out my new normal. I'm trying to figure out how
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: to put myself first. I'm a special needs mom. My
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: son is 20 and I got divorced earlier this year.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: And then my mom moved in with me a couple
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: of years ago. She had ovarian cancer and then she
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: passed away a little over a year ago. So, you know,
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: it's just been a lot. And I'm struggling to get
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: to me.
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  Speaker 1: Laura, first of all, I'm really proud of you for
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: taking the time to call in. That right there is
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: a definitive I choose me moment. So give yourself a
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: pat on the back for reaching out because that's very
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: important to step into asking others for help as you
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: continue this new life ahead of you.
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  Speaker 2: And wow. Wow.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, lady, you've been through an extraordinary amount of carrying
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: things on your shoulders for a very long time.
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  Speaker 2: Dr.
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  Speaker 1: Kelly, what can you recommend for Laura?
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I also, you know, I, I also want to
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  Speaker 2: acknowledge even making that call is saying that joy is possible.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: And so just starting from that, even with everything that
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: you have been going through, you are capable of joy
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: and you deserve joy. And, and, I'm in a very
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: similar phase of my life to dealing with many of
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: the same things, actually. And what I have found is
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: that you start to look for the small uplifts in
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: everyday life. I always say lower your threshold for joy.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we're waiting for that moment where it feels like
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  Speaker 2: everything in life is going perfect, that there are no
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  Speaker 2: problems anymore. You're not worried about anything else. There's nothing
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  Speaker 2: going wrong in your body. And then that will be
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  Speaker 2: the moment where we can say we're happy. But joy
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: often arises in these very small moments and you realize
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  Speaker 2: you're smiling or you're laughing or you're feeling close to
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  Speaker 2: someone or you're feeling good about something that you did.
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  Speaker 2: And that makes you feel like, oh, I matter. What
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  Speaker 2: I do matters. Maybe you're just enjoying something wonderful or
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: beautiful in the world. And that brings you a moment
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  Speaker 2: of peace to look for those moments that are already
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  Speaker 2: present in your life and to give yourself permission to
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  Speaker 2: savor it, to take in that good thing and And
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  Speaker 2: we know that when you give yourself permission to just
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: take in those small moments, it has a bigger effect
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  Speaker 2: than most people recognize. A lot of people think when
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: life is difficult, you need something so good, so amazing
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  Speaker 2: in your life that's going to somehow balance out all
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: the things you've been through or all the things you're
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: dealing with. Like the good stuff doesn't really count or
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  Speaker 2: can't really contribute to your well-being until it's bigger than
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: the problems or the pain you've been through. And what's
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: so amazing about joy as a human capacity we have
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  Speaker 2: is that one moment of laughing with someone you love
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  Speaker 2: or one moment of recognizing that, you know, somebody thanked
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: you for helping them or you see something beautiful in
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: nature and you feel kind of inspired by life. Those
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  Speaker 2: moments carry more weight than you expect.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It's like a cumulative effect.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And it's really is an antidote for some
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: of the things you mentioned like burnout, you These are
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  Speaker 2: states that take a real toll, not just on our
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: mental well-being, but also on our physical well-being. And every
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: moment of joy is like an antidote to that in
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  Speaker 2: your body. That moment where you laugh with someone, that
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: moment where you're appreciating something beautiful, it is a boost
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  Speaker 2: for your immune system. It can calm your heart and
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: it's good for your heart health. It can change what's
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: happening in your brain in a way that that lets
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: you like exhale for a moment and feel less overwhelmed.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Oh my, I think Laura needs an exhale moment.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Also grace for yourself, for what you're going through, all
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: the things that you are carrying.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a lot.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, navigating just the 20 year journey of being
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: a special needs mom, processing the divorce, grieving the painful
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: loss of your mother.
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  Speaker 3: It's a lot.
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  Speaker 1: You're taking the right steps by reaching out. Just want
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  Speaker 1: you to know that, Laura.
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  Speaker 2: And like Dr.
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  Speaker 1: Kelly said, look for those little moments of joy and
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: don't feel bad about them.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, do not feel bad about them. And the other
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: thing that I often encourage as a starting point is
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: to trust what you love. And sometimes if you've been
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: really busy taking care of other people or dealing with
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of chaos or crisis in your life, you
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: can forget what it is you love. But there may
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: be something that You just enjoy beyond reason. You look
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  Speaker 2: forward to it. If someone gives you an opportunity to
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: do it, you're like, yes, I love that. If you
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  Speaker 2: had a few extra moments, it's how you'd want to
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  Speaker 2: spend your time. If there's something like that, and maybe
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  Speaker 2: especially if it's something that you haven't been giving yourself
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  Speaker 2: permission or time to do, to really trust the things
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  Speaker 2: that you love and to view them as essential, essential
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  Speaker 2: acts of self-care and not to dismiss their value. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: It's so true.
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  Speaker 1: Even writing it down, like doing a little list of
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  Speaker 1: things that bring you joy that maybe you haven't done
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  Speaker 1: in a long time.
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  Speaker 2: One of the things I'm doing right now, I don't
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: know if you have feelings about this, Jenny, but Dancing
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  Speaker 2: with the Stars brings me a lot of joy. I
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: don't know if I have the same feelings. It gives
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: me anxiety watching that. I was wondering.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's true. Even just your favorite TV show.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Let yourself enjoy your moments, Laura. I'm so proud of
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  Speaker 1: you and honored that you were able to call in
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  Speaker 1: and be so vulnerable and share your story. And this
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  Speaker 1: just might help someone else out there who is going
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: through something similar. And that is exactly why we share
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  Speaker 1: our stories.
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  Speaker 2: You know, one of the things that's really stood out
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  Speaker 2: to me in talking to people about joy is when
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: you ask people to describe a moment of joy, a
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  Speaker 2: lot of times people describe something like what you just said.
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  Speaker 2: that they were going through something difficult and somebody else
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: shared that they too were struggling with that. And that
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: feeling of not being alone, it's not a happy feeling.
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  Speaker 2: It's not euphoria. But that sense of suddenly knowing you
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  Speaker 2: aren't alone is a form of joy. And also being
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: able to be that for somebody else is a form
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  Speaker 2: of joy. And sometimes the way that joy shows up
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  Speaker 2: isn't in this super positive, happy or excited mode. It is, again,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: sometimes just a feeling of relief or feeling of of
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  Speaker 2: uplift or connection that makes you feel better about life.
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  Speaker 2: And you can often choose that too. Like, um, like
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: calling in and talking about what you're going through so
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: that somebody else who's going through grief and caring and
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: all of that, they're like, wow, yeah, this is, um,
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  Speaker 2: this is part of the human condition we're doing. That's right.
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  Speaker 1: It feels so unifying.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you for.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Calling in, Laura. You tell a story in your book
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: about your dad, and it's really sweet and special. So
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: can you tell us about the handwritten list that he
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: kept in his drawer?
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  Speaker 2: And I should say, you know, this is another example
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  Speaker 2: of how joy can be a mixed emotion. So this
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: is a list that my mom sent me about a
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: month after my father died. It was a list that
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: she had found in his bedside drawer. And it was
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: a list of things that brought him joy, his favorite
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: joy memories. And he was making that list because when
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I first started to write a book about joy, he
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: said to me, oh, that's interesting. I've only experienced joy
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: maybe a couple of times in my life. And when
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: he first said that, I was like, wow, that's depressing.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: But I challenged him a little bit on it. And
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: I described what I meant by joy. And he was like, well,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: let me tell you one story. And he told me
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: that one time that he would consider joy was when
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: he had to feed us as babies. I have a
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: twin sister and my mom was still in the hospital
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: and he had to get up every morning to bottle
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: feed us. And he remembered the first time that I
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: smiled at him. And that was one of his few
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: moments of joy. And I never heard that story before.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And it was so exciting to talk to him about,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: to start to learn more about him. And we started
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: sharing these memories. And as he started to think of
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: more moments of joy, he created that list so that
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: every time we talked on the phone, he could share
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: a new joy memory with me. And that started before
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And when he was diagnosed,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: it was such a whirlwind. It's a terrible disease. It
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: was very quickly, there was no treatment options. But because
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: we had started that conversation about a year earlier, it
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: actually was, it was almost a miracle. The way that
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: we were able to connect and talk honestly, once he
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: learned he was dying, because somehow talking about joy had
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: created a kind of openness and vulnerability in our conversations.
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  Speaker 2: That had never been there in my 50 years of
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: being his daughter. And I think this is another risk
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  Speaker 2: worth taking when it comes to joy is being willing
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  Speaker 2: to share with others when and how they bring you joy,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: sharing your positive memories, and even allowing yourself to have
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: those moments. One of the memories that he shared with
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: me that really took me by surprise is he said
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: the moment in his life when he felt closer to
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: me than he'd ever felt to any human being was
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: when we were thrift store shopping in California, just at
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: the Goodwill looking for bargains like we often do. And
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: he said he remembered just standing on that aisle and
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: feeling so close to me. And it was one of
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: his favorite moments in life. And I thought, you know,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: that even just him telling me that was such a
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: beautiful thing. But also how often we dismiss those small
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: moments and that you could be standing in the store
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  Speaker 2: doing something with a loved one. And that could end
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  Speaker 2: up being the memory that they cherish more than any other,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: just because you were there and you were present and
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: you allowed yourself to have that time together.
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  Speaker 1: How can we start making that list, the joy list?
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  Speaker 1: I love this idea.
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  Speaker 2: So some of the questions that I ask people when
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: they're starting to collect their moments of joy, to start,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: very simple, one can be what something in the last
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: 24 hours that brought you joy. Like if I asked
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: you that, Would you be able to look back on
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: any moment, something that made you smile or laugh or
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: feel good? For sure.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Just last night holding Dottie in my arms and she
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: was passed out asleep and I was just looking at
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: her little nose and her little lips and just like
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: taking it in how sweet and beautiful she was.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, perfect. So that's a way you can start is
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: looking for something very recent again to lower your threshold.
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  Speaker 2: But then I also often ask people questions like, If
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: you could permanently save one memory and be able to
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: relive it whenever you want, you could just kind of
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: go there in your mind and be able to re-experience it.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: What moment would you want to be able to access
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: in that way? And people often come up with quite
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: interesting memories. Not always the biggest milestones in their lives,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: but just moments that were really beautiful or meaningful. Right.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I think two things come to mind for me. One is.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Making the list and it's asking yourself this question, what
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: brings me joy? What big or little things do I
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: remember that I wish I could relive? Those, ask yourself
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: those and then write about it in your journal. And then,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe another idea I had was at dinner
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: when our family, which happens rarely now, is all together
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: at the table. We do like rose bud thorn You know,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: what was your best part of your day?
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Worst part of your day?
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: What are you looking forward to?
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: But maybe you could do a joy. What brought you
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: joy today?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just that question, bringing that conversation to the forefront
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: of people's minds really helps you expand your joy. Yeah.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: And I also, I love that you, I mean, the
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: version that you're doing is such a perfect example because
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: it allows for both positive empathy and negative empathy. You know,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: so often we connect with our friends or family, by
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: just complaining or venting. Like we need that social support,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: but it's just as important to let people celebrate the good.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: And even when you revisit something good that happened that day,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: it amplifies the meaningfulness of it. It's so easy to
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: forget the good moments. And then you get this kind
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: of joy amnesia, like did it even really happen? That
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: thing that made you feel good about yourself or that
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: you really enjoyed. And then you have that opportunity to
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: share it with somebody else and you relive it. you recognize,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: oh wait, like something good did happen. And then you
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: get to feel close to one another through the fact
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: that somebody else cares about your happiness. And I think
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: the question, what's something worth celebrating is one we could
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: add to that list too. I like that idea.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: And let go of the guilt associated with you having
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: joy in your life and sharing it with someone else.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I think that's a big deal for a lot of people,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: especially in this current climate. It's hard to you know,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: it's scary to share your joyous moments with people because
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: maybe they aren't having them in their own lives. But
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I think your messaging is so incredible. When people read
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: your book, what is one thing that you want the
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: readers to get from it?
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest ideas is that joy, uh,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: serves a function that every moment of joy is something
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: that shores up our enthusiasm for life. And that includes
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: the joy that you feel and the joy that you show,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: you know, something as simple as there are people in
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: your life. When you see them, you are happy that
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: they are there and you can show that in your
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: face and you can show it in your voice. You
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: can show it in how you greet them. There's so
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: many opportunities every day to appreciate something good or to
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: show others that they bring you joy. And every time
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: we do that, we are, we are making a statement
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: that life is worth living. And we are saying to others,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: your existence in this world is a good thing. And
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: one of the things, I mean, I think we're often
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: very comfortable talking about the fact that life is stressful,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: but one of the things that I'm always thinking about
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: is it's really hard to be human. And there can
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: be many times throughout the day when you're interacting with
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: other people, you may not know that they are hanging
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: on by a thread. Um, And to view joy, something
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: as simple as a moment of shared laughter, or when
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: you really listen to someone, or when somebody invites you
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: to join them in something joyful, like to dance or
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: to sing or to play a game, and to say
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: yes to that. Each one of those moments is a
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: moment that is going to really bolster people's sense that
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: life is worth living. And that's one of the reasons
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: why the idea of feeling guilty about joy It's really
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: a mistake and it's kind of a sad mistake because
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: when you look even at the end of life, when
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: people have an opportunity to appreciate something beautiful they do,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: you put a cat on someone's chest at the end
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: of life and they still have that same capacity to
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: be moved and to want to care for that cat.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: If they imagine something good about someone that they love,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: they still feel a sense of hope. these are the
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: things that we are alive for. And that's the core
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: message of the book, that these things are also possible.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we get so distracted by what we think will
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: make us happy that our big life circumstances, that we
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: forget to pay attention to how many moments throughout the
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: day are trying to let you know that you matter.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: There are so many things happen to you every day
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: if you really paid attention to it that would give
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: you that signal And sometimes we create stories in our
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: head about how we won't really know that or feel
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: that until it's a big, the big event. Right.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I do every night before
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I go to sleep is say to myself three things
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: that I'm grateful for that happened today. But I think
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I might pivot and ask myself, what are three things
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: that brought me joy today? I want to try that out.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: There's research showing that that exercise significantly increases people's meaning
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: in life and it can reduce symptoms of depression and anxiety.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: And it's actually an exercise that I recommend. I call
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: it the joy review. And one of the reasons it's
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: so important is because, like I said, so many great
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: moments of the day, if you don't revisit them, they disappear.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Your brain learns from experience when you repeat it in
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: your head. And so many of us, I'm definitely one
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: of them. If something went wrong that day, I ruminate
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: on it. I play it in my head. What should
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I have done? Somebody said something that was hurtful or
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: critical and I'm processing it. And if I give all
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: of my mental energy to that or to the things
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I'm worried about, and I'm spending that time before I
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: fall asleep, thinking about what could go wrong, people I'm
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: worried about, my brain, I'm literally telling my brain to
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: forget all of the good things. So that as I sleep,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: it's literally deleting out The memory of someone thanking me
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: or the memory where I felt content. Yeah, I know.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: And it's just a natural instinct, though, I think, for
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: so many people.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. But one of the great things is
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: that we can cultivate these other ways of using our brain,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: of using our attention. And it's so true.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, our brains are hungry for elasticity and change
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: and new routines and more positive ways of thinking. So Dr.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Kelly McGonigal's book, Joy is a Risk Worth Taking, is
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: out now. I'm so happy for you. You guys need
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: to get it and take the risk. It is so
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: worth it. Thank you for joining me. But before I
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: let you go, Dr. Kelly McGonigal, what was your last
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: I Choose Me moment?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: One I'm really excited to share. I recently got a tattoo.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: It's a tattoo. I know I don't have a lot
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: of tattoos. This is a midlife change. Finally being like,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: why not? It's funny. I always thought like, well, what
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: if I regret what I get? And so I thought
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: of a song that I have loved for 40 years,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Into the Groove by Madonna. Oh, yeah, that's a good one.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: You know, I think if I've loved it this long,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: it is worth putting on my body. So I got
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: the first lyric on my arm and you can dance.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: And I got for inspiration on my collarbone because when
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: that song starts and Madonna says, and you can dance
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: for inspiration, it makes me so happy. And I thought
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: it's worth celebrating something that small, but that has consistently
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: brought me joy for four decades. I love it. I
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: love that.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being with us today and
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: be sure to pick up Kelly's book.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It was really nice to meet you.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Nice to meet you too.