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Renewed Passion for Prayer · The Hearing God Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Anthony Moore.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm Dan Lamus.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: For over a decade, Anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical, and the matters of the heart.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we invite you into these weekly conversations.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: So pull up a chair, settle in, and let's get started.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here we are.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: How's it going, Dan?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Going good?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why the big pause there.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know it caught me off guard or something.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like it's a surprise that I we say that every episode somehow.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if I only knew that was coming.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing well.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, good, good.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: Doing well and just glad to be uh getting um into the the routines of the fall again.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's kind of funny.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we are just like neck, just neck deep.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I've said this before, but I feel like, you know, I feel like the fall is just hang like it's been like hang on for dear life.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of for the last month or so.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I don't I don't I only think that's gonna get worse.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: That feel that feeling of uh just like hang on.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's just so much that we've got going on at the church, and then everybody's got their own launches and initiatives and you know, things that we really believe.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like I think uh we have seen God work amazing things through.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just I know sometimes if you're if you come from a more mystical bent, uh you can roll your eyes at the at program, uh, and just like things and initiatives, but um we found like it uh we use this language uh form and fire.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's right.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's a very much uh a philosophy.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to say I'm I was there at the inception.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: I won't take full credit for using that language, but I'm gonna say I was at least in the room when uh when we came up with that language.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's very much like um just to explain form and fire, it's a little bit like uh you know, in the Old Testament, uh, you know, there were many altars that were built.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking that building altars.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was a building altars.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so you could use that if form and fire isn't your thing, then altars is also building an altar.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've heard some some people use is that use that as uh imagery, but it really is is the you know, from that Mount Carmel experience, like the the fire of God, like we don't have we can't bring the fire of God, right?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: But we can build the altar.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's right.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah, and knowing that knowing that um, you know, we can't actually, you know, this is life, this is the life of a believer, and we've said this before, like, but you can't you can't do the thing that you actually that God's asking you to do without the fire.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but again, you can build systems and structures and disciplines, and you can build a life, whether it's uh it's your personal life filled with those those forms or those altars, um, or you can lead a church in that way.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you can build systems and structures and initiatives knowing, and that's the that's the key, is like I think the you know why the sort of the more mystical people might roll their eyes at uh at the word program is maybe they've seen programs built and had there's not been much fire there.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we yeah, that's so we at this like for us here, we build, we build the altars, we build the forms.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: No form, yeah.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, knowing that we actually need the fire.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, and so it's uh right, it's really the the posture of the heart.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, I somehow I managed to slightly well the busy, it's busy, yeah, yeah, it's busy, and there are things again, like I was and I was saying, I think I was just thinking, like, you know, we heard we've heard we've been hearing some really powerful things coming out of our celebrate recovery uh ministry and just hearing the life-changing power of Jesus through the altar or the form of celebrate recovery, something that we do and we launch, and just some some wild things that uh have been happening there.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: So just to say that there's all kinds of these things going on.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're not we're launching Love Week.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: You may this may uh, I don't know if this one will come out on Love Week, but it will be very shortly after.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um it might be during, yeah, it depends on the calendar, but but just that we've there's just so much going on.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I say all that I to to make a short story long.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a bad thing.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot going on.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's a lot of form, there's a lot of it's not bad that there's a lot going on because there's because in the kingdom, like the kingdom is uh is a is alive, right?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so in order to be alive, there has to be stuff going on.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like the heart has to be meet beating, yeah, the the muscles have to be firing, the nerves have to be like responding, and the neurons in your brain have to be firing.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, like in the body of Christ, there are plenty of things that need to be going on.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like it needs to be uh an active and vibrant, and uh dare I use a bad word, busy busy place, right?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's an overbusyness, sure, but in a in a healthy way, there are there are plenty of things going on in the kingdom of heaven.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's right.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: And to be, you know, uh in our intro, we always talk about the matters of the heart, you know, we're heart people for sure.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but people shouldn't people need to be careful not to fall into the trap of thinking if you are a person who is a person of the heart and you focus on the heart of the matter and your own life and so on, um that doesn't exclude having a life where you're accomplishing a lot of things, where you're working hard.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like working hard is not the opposite of having a heart for God.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like sometimes people make this assumption that if you're a person who is developing your heart of love and intimacy with God, then you won't be you won't have a lot going on and you won't be working hard.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm saying that's that's actually uh it's a sad delusion.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the enemy can sideline a lot of the things of the kingdom by make by causing us to think if I'm a if I have a good heart connection with God, I'm not gonna be busy and I'm not gonna work hard.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like we're made to work.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I wrote in my journal this morning, literally, I didn't bring my journal with me to the studio today, but I wrote this morning how just helping to sort my own thoughts out, I spend the majority of my week working.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: God remind me that's a good thing.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like help me remember you've designed me to work, right?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: Design me to accomplish things, to work hard.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: These are things God wants us to do, and He takes great joy in working hard with us.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and that, yeah Well, because I just think that there's a there's the part of where uh you know Earth is really interested in like sorry, heaven is really interested in Earth's partnership, yes, right?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like absolutely and by that I mean the Lord and the advancement of his kingdom is actually looking for Earth's agreement, right?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah, that's why we've talked about that.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's like Earth brings like uh humanity brings uh our amen to the plans and purposes of God.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so that actually looked like it looks like something, yep, right?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: It actually looks that we put our hands to something, right?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's very that's very plan.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very biblical, that's a very biblical imagery, right?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: When earth, like it's almost like this.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the you know, the call of Isaiah in Isaiah chapter six, right?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was like the Lord saying, uh, who will go for us?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Who whom shall we send, right?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And who will go for us?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And Isaiah is like, here I am, send me.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the call of God over a nation, over a family, over a person.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then the response is the amen, right?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the the response is like here, I hear your call and I'm going.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So for the sake of your kingdom, the sake of the advancement, the glory of God, the sake of the, you know, of of creating an impact on uh on earth, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So so heaven's impact and expansion on earth comes from this place.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So because heaven is, you know, the Lord is really interested in uh obviously he prayed, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as is heaven.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: We say that, yeah, and we'll continue to say that.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that has to look like a thing, like that has to uh that has to you s be something that you uh can grab hold of tangibly, yeah.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, uh and it's yeah, yeah.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's gonna continually be for any person who's following Jesus, living the life of the kingdom on earth as it is in heaven, it's gonna constantly be a dance of planning your time, yeah, accomplishing tasks, yeah, uh, you know, getting too tired out at times.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: We need to be careful not to not to side with the enemy on that and start condemning ourselves or say, you know, I must be doing it wrong if this feels like hard work.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like, no, it's it's going to be work to actually go.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: Here I am, send me.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: If you're gonna be a sent person, that that's gonna look like work.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: It is, absolutely.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually that's the that's a uh I think a very kingdom way to just say that.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not toil.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Toil from right, like they're from the curse from the curse.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now it's gonna be toil.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Your work is gonna be a a negative experience.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: And it's gonna be, you're gonna, you're gonna uh I don't say curse it, but you're gonna you're gonna struggle with working and causing the earth to cooperate with you now.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, your work isn't going to be just productive, it's gonna be toil.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: So we're not saying the kingdom work is toil, yeah, where it's a negative experience where I'm regretful about it.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but it's accepting how do we get down this trail?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love it.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's amazing.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like busy I don't know, we tripped on a route somewhere back there.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: But but busy, busy, like busy is not bad.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think being distracted from Jesus' participation with you is where it gets to be dangerous and off track a little bit, where you you start experiencing the anxiety and the and the fear and the intimidation and the resentment, these things.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's absolutely losing sight of who of how this work is unfolding.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's like it's meant to always be in partnership with the Lord.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's meant to be that way.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: It is going to look like uh it is gonna look like sending emails, making invitations, organizing events.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like it's going to look like that practically, but the thing that you're inviting people to is like this place where you come.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like whether it's in a gathering or whether it's through uh, you know, people being sent out to to go on mission or some kind of the expression of like, but it but the back end of this gonna be like, okay, hey guys, this is what we're all about, this is where we're going.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Casting vision, invitation.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but some of that is like, okay, somebody's gonna have to do a social media graphic.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I'm saying?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, in order to get the word out, like it's okay, so we live in the we live when we live in the 21st, 21st, 21st century.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: So social media is a thing, is a is a tool to be leveraged, and like emails and phone calls and personal invitations and those kinds of things, and planning and strat strategizing, these parts are very much the kinds of things that heaven is looking for in response to the call, who's gonna go for us.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's very much the kinds of things that our heaven is looking for in on earth as it is in heaven, as much as it is laying on hands, as much as it is uh bringing your personal agreement, like the the listening for a prophetic word, the uh, you know, gathering together for a prayer meeting, those kinds of things that happen uh are all part of Earth's response to the to the cry of heaven.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like and and bringing our bringing our man amen to the yeah to the call of God.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so just to I think that's a healthy, because as a uh let me say, let me say this, um, as a probably who's bent a little bit more of a romantic, uh, and understanding there are people in the world that are bent a little bit more to the logical side.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I would say I lean, you know, uh in the the logical to the romantic, uh dare I say illogical at times, but like the sort of like that that form let me let me maybe back it up a little bit and using the form and fire, like a little bit that way.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: I lean on to the to the fire side of center.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I understand, I understand the form stuff, right?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: I understand the the need for its existence, but I but I have a like and again, I'm trying to live live my life, right, and build my life intentionally so that there's there's form and there's fire.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, so I just I think that like, but I lean, I definitely lean to the fire toward the fire, toward the romantic side of that.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and again, it's not my favorite thing to do to sit and to just like you know, figure out how we're gonna figure, figure out how we're gonna do it, or or even um a little bit on the the the practical side of seeing implementation and just like plans executed and sending emails and doing administrative stuff, right?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: So so that's like but but I get I get the full picture, right?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right, probably even more so than maybe I ever have.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you I think if you wander down this road and especially with the Lord, um, and have and and he gives you maybe a 30,000 foot view of what he's trying to do, right?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I think this is how we ended up with this form and fire language, is that the we've seen like fiery fiery things exist uh and the form hasn't been there, right?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right, the form, the strategy, and so maybe it burns really brightly for a short amount of time, right?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and then on the form side, we've had people strategize and build, and they may they might build something big and impressive, but there's not much fire there.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: So so our I think for us the fight of the form and the fire is to do both.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Something that is um something that is like again, that is uh I don't want to I big sounds like a bad word, but the kingdom of God, there's not there's not enough people yet in the kingdom of God, so it's gonna be big, right?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like so we build something for our part of the world, for our neck of the world, that is big enough to, as the Lord leads and provides, is is big enough to sustain uh the amount of people that are coming, right?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: That the Lord brings us.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other side, there's the fire that is necessary to uh it's the presence of God that is necessary to uh the in the activity of the Holy Spirit, supernatural, uh, that is required to bring life, yeah, uh, and joy and peace and love and breakthrough and freedom and reconciliation and the gifts of the spirit and all of those things, right, come from all like the source of that is is the Lord.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, you know, you know what I'm saying?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like so we have to manage this, we have to build accordingly, yeah, right, yeah with those things in mind.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I love it's like I'm thinking a really good test for all of this.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: If I was gonna test my heart today, would be if I if I try to embrace the statement, the Holy Spirit is a worker.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like what does that do to me?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: If I if I envision the Holy Spirit because we would say that the Holy Spirit is at work, yeah, right.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: The Holy Spirit's at work.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: Where where I think it would go against the grain for some of us would be, oh, you mean real work?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or is he just doing otherworldly work that doesn't relate much to or he's God and that's just he doesn't really have to right is that or that's just super easy for him.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know what I'm saying?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's no work for him to organize a team and get a logo and uh do do all the work it is to gather a hundred people that come together and do an awesome God thing.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: We have a hard time understanding the Holy Spirit is part of every step of that process.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that test on my heart.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we're on this, like we're in this fringe little little little territory.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we're in this little because I think I think that conversation could be his whole other like a whole other podcast.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are people listening.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, everybody.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we're coming back in the room.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: We do have uh, I mean, there is some place we want to get to this morning, right?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um just to crack it open a little bit, like we have been, you know, sort of sitting here, you know, before we pushed record on the podcast, think, you know, talking a lot about prayer, talking a lot about um, you know what happens when we pray.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily I think I don't think we I think we're gonna leave hopefully uh why we pray as a thing, as just a self-evident thing that this isn't in the life of a believer.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like we are, you know, there are probably better ways to color that in, but it's just we're gonna leave and just talk a little bit maybe about um how we pray.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things, um, one of the things I think is worth mentioning is that I personally feel uh through a number through a number of uh just moments I've had with the Lord um recently, I feel as though there is a door opening, like a um almost like an invitation is opening up for increase in the area of prayer.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um especially in equipping, yeah.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Especially, especially in equipping.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I and I I felt like and I maybe just I'll throw this out there just because why not?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I had this moment a few weeks ago uh leaving a prayer meeting.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was like we always gather together and we're probably 40, 45 minutes before our Sunday morning service.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: It was our pre-pre-service prayer.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I'll try not to slide off into much backstory there, but like it but prayer has been a uh a burden that obviously both you and I have carried, but we have we've carried it for a a solid, I don't know, for me age, in it.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: But like, but here in this particular context, in the sort of the context of our relationship, it's been probably 12 to 14.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Same as our prophetic journey, like probably 14 years.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I've there's been a lot of ups and downs and frustrations along the ways and things that we've been, you know, uh been doing that have had limited effectiveness.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: We really thought that was going to be effective, and then level of engagement, all kinds of those things that we've sort of wrestled in, yeah, and uh uh what's the what's the word?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh something to do with anguish.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just like you've just it's been like it's been at times this painful conversation that we've been a part of.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's been work, yeah.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's been work, it definitely has looked like work, yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's no doubt about it.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and there's but but back to the but a few weeks ago, like I I was walking upstairs to just jump into the service um and in the couple minutes before it was starting.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And almost like out of nowhere, um it just k it dawned on me.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like Don't have a prayer problem, we have an equipping problem.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so where that is, it's in, you know, just sitting here talking, it's almost like this is we in the same way as you know, it feels as though uh there are times that we have um like um like a toddler, right?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: We have expected the toddler who hasn't figured out how to run.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or sorry, how to walk.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: We've expected that toddler to run and they haven't even figured out how to walk yet.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully that came across clear.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: But there is a there's a gap between uh we've been trying to rush the process a little bit.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm just like had this moment of like, I felt like the Lord just dropped in my heart, we don't have a prayer problem because we do it a lot.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: We do.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's no there's no denying there's a lot of prayer happening.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: There is a lot of prayer happening.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: It happens in our midweek, it happens pre-service on Sunday, it happens in prayer rooms across all our locations.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: It happens like our I I think it would be to say that uh like our our there's the quantity of prayer that exists is there's plenty of it.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I do believe that the Lord is is honored by it and he blesses it 100%.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Would it be safe to say that most of that prayer though, in those gatherings happening, you have to be able to run?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: To use your other illustration, for sure, for sure you come out for prayer, but you need to be able to run.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: And when you haven't been patient enough with yeah, so here's how you take your first few steps, here's how you walk.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, here's how you walk, and here's here's not just why you pray, because I think you come into at the very least, you come into a uh a relationship with Jesus, knowing that if it's gonna be a relationship, there needs to be communication.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you come into a little bit like prayer, and we've used a little bit this like the two legs of a believer, right, is prayer and the word, right?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: We you know, that's like from Sunday school, like read your Bible and pray every day.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, those are the two legs upon which a believer moves towards you know uh everything that God wants for us, like Christ-likeness.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so but uh I just I think I think we have I feel the invitation of the Lord to back up, just to just say, okay, okay, where where are we as a church expecting people to run where where they're only maybe they're not even able to walk yet.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're like why we pray.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they understand why, and I understand why running is important, right?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right, but I don't know how to run because I don't know how to I don't even know how to walk yet.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so just I think I feel like, you know, I I feel this invitation of the Lords to really, and we'll see how that plays out over the next, you know, year.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't I don't feel like this this is not a a challenge or an invitation that just resolves itself in a quick right, you know, in a quick fix kind of deal.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like but I do feel and outside of a soft and listen, I'm happy if you know God comes and bears down on us and we ended up in uh we end up in a you know three-week long prayer meeting that never stops, you know, all of that.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm welcome, I welcome that.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think from from what he's I feels like he's calling my attention to the equipping that is required to build uh a healthy personal and corporate prayer life in our house.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, like it's not I think it's when we when we use language like that, it can sound a little bit like I'm not saying that it's not happening.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm saying I'm feeling like the Lord is asking me to pay attention to it.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, it could it be could it be that God is God is saying, trust me, I am calling lots of people to pray.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, trust me, I am calling my people to pray.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so would you trust me in your local church context?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm calling people to pray.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what I need you to do is I need you to be ready to equip them to walk.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about talk to me about the altar that you're building.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, talk to me about the form of what that what that thing is.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, these people that I'm calling to pray are gonna need from you as leaders, as equippers.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I need you to train them to walk.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because they're gonna run.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: But I your part is I need you to get away.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would just like to just like to throw this out there to people, right?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I've I and again, I'm not saying my memory is perfect or your memory is perfect, but we often like prayer is just um, it is something that we do, but we don't give a whole lot of context around like around why and how we do what we do.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I love what you're quite like what's happening when we pray.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: What's happening when there?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: What's happening when we pray, other than we're talking to God.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: But there's more to it than that.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's there's more uh there's there's more granularity, or like we the the the microscope can zoom in and find greater detail about the kinds of things that are happening when we pray.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, but but if I if I zoom back and outside of maybe books I read, uh, you know, from a local church context, there's not much I can remember about principles and values and expectations and you know, and then even identifying like what's hap actually happening when we pray.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I feel like that's a bit of a it's always been a vague, and and and maybe I say this uh could it be that Hollywood has uh has discipled us, you know, from Hollywood has and maybe even you know uh shows of where people pray that they've discipled us on prayer, right?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: As much as like when we, you know, uh, you know, not to say that it's all bad, but I say it's all uh there's incompleteness to that.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Mean meaning, right, we'll we'll see uh, you know, uh potentially a scene where someone is praying, God get me out of this situation.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, please.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll do this, like a bargaining with God.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, or uh someone using prayer for selfish motives, right?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right, those kinds of things that we see, you know, a Hollywood sort of misinterpretation or of what prayer is.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so prayer is how to access the good things in life.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, prayer is transactional, right?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Prayer is how you access the good life, God, God is your vending machine, right, or your genie or whatever, right?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever those kinds of things.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: I've so I've found that that better than prayer is the way to get the good life, yeah, is to say prayer is the way you do life with God.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like what happens, what happens when I pray partly is I feel like he's constantly readjusting my expectations of what good is.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like prayer puts me in that that place with God where he's actually in charge of telling me this is what good looks like.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, Dan, will you invite me into your day or your week and surrender to my agenda, my way of doing this day, and trust me that I know what is good.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: Part of prayer for me is that it's a it's a it's not, I'm not looking for a certain kind of life in the sense of here's my goal.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: I want to get these good things.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's I want to get somewhere with God.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's come over decades of praying.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but it's a thing that happens when I pray, is yeah, I get readjusted to he's deciding what's good about this day.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Even by the act of praying, right?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that happens when we pray, even by the act of uh praying, we are um like with like there's an invitation to a heart posture that says, God, even just by doing this, I'm I'm agreeing to your way of doing things.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's right.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I am agreeing, I'm bringing my agreement, at least uh for the for my own ability, in part, I'm at least acknowledging whether or not my heart is fully caught up with this, with this yet.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm I'm saying, like, I am choosing, that's a little bit better.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm choosing to say that your your way is better.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: That you've you've established prayer as how we communicate.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do this, right, at least on the surface, as a as a way of saying, God, I'm I'm agreeing to your way of doing things.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, just like uh there's a there's a surrender that happens when we pray.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then I mean, there's another thing that I mean, again, we talk about like we trust, like we, you know, in we've we've talked about these things where we cast, like we just we just talked about it, like casting your cares on Christ because he cares for you.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is a there is a surrender and a there's a release and a trust that happens when we pray.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like that's part of it.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: There's also uh getting his heart, right?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: When we're close enough, like when we spend time with the Lord, we're we we are actually close enough to the Lord to hear what's on his heart.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't just praying about things that we we think are good or even healthy or even uh whatever our own ideas.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: The prayer is one of the things that happens is we get close enough to hear what matters to him.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think some of that is like, I don't know if there's anything else that comes to mind, but like, but just like for me, it's like the it's the it's these kinds of things that are happening from the place of from the as we as we get in intentionally in proximity, as we're drawing near to God, right?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there's these kinds of things that are happening.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so yeah, I love that because I I I feel like most humans wrestle with believing that w what I'm feeling and what I'm going through, what I'm looking at today, that that matters to God.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that that is weighing on me.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like if it's weighing on me, how am I gonna get today accomplished?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: We wrestle with does that matter to God?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's in prayer where he communicates to us, yes, it does matter to me how your day's hitting you, how you feel about your day, that matters to me.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but then right on the heels of that is we wrestle with how that it that it means something to God, yeah, but that he matters to me.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like I awaken when I sit when I've set aside, speaking of form, if I if I've set aside a certain time, maybe every morning, or two or three times, four times a week, whatever it is, when I set a time aside to get alone with God and pray, right?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Part of what happens to me in those moments is I begin to realize, and this is an intuitive thing that you feel inside, but I begin to realize it means something to God that he matters to me.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like to just address what you're saying.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I want to know what's what's what's heavy on his heart for this week.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I find out in that moment, wow, he that means a lot to him.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I feel the closeness of God when he starts giving me his impression on on the day.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like that that person, um, maybe I was feeling that the the meetup was gonna be stressful.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but he begins to show me I actually really love that person a lot, and it's and I want to show I want to communicate that to them today when you meet with them.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: I begin to realize, oh, I want that too.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you start to matter what you uh it's funny.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: Your experience of you and God mattering to mattering, is that even like a word?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: The fact that you and God both matter to each other at a very deep level, yeah, that is an awesome part of prayer.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like there it's that's irreplaceable.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: You can't you can't recreate that in an artificial way.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you realizing because I came to prayer today and I'm interacting with God, yeah, there you can't replace that with anything else.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: Just that awareness that God and I matter to each other.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can't.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I think there's it like back to that Isaiah 6 piece.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you read, you know, Isaiah 6, chapter, sorry, chapter 6, verse 8, Isaiah is saying, I heard the voice of the Lord saying, Whom shall I send?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Who will go for us?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's almost as if I Isaiah's being led in to overhear a conversation.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yep, that's right.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's the way I interpret it too.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like it's like Isaiah's overhearing this conversation of the of the Lord asking this question.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, so let's break that down.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like Isaiah's being let in on something that matters to God.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's not like you know, he's not saying, um, you know, I think well, let me just let's just back up here a little bit, just to say that like God is expressing his heart in this, in this, in this vision that's unfolding.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's expressing his desire of looking for someone to who will go on earth as it is in heaven, like it will go on his behalf to accomplish this this mission, yeah, to be the voice to my people.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously the rest of the book of Isaiah unfolds.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: But in that moment, God is expressing his desire for a from a from heaven to earth moment.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: You need someone to go.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm looking, I'm looking at their work.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, totally.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm looking for something to happen.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and Isaiah's being led into that.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and again, like, okay, so I'm gonna say to this point in my life, I have not experienced something so dramatic.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but but in in the place of prayer, I have experienced God sharing his heart with me.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it followed uh the the uh confession, yeah, the uh the consecration, yeah, the consecration, the purifying from of the of the Lord Hears.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so he's let in on this on this conversation.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just I think that's really interesting.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is like, so so this is another thing that happens when we when we pray, right?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: If we have a heart posture and ears to hear, right?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't like again, we've talked about a little bit, like, you know, you um maybe you've heard this uh this analogy of like from a from a romantic standpoint, like it's like from an intimacy and romance standpoint, there are ways that you can relate to your spouse that are very transactional, right?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: There are very uh they could be, it's like uh, okay, just uh let me let me get a little bit, not too, but a little bit uh into the weeds a little bit on the romance part.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like take a kiss, for example.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are times when a quick kiss is sufficient, right?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then there are times when more than a like a quick kiss is insufficient for for the cultivation of intimacy.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: The same time the same time there is times when quick prayer may be all that you have time for.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like Jesus help, right?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or like, you know, and I'm happy to help.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: But but in the full yeah, but in the full spectrum of as it relates to intimacy with God, building a life on quick kisses is gonna be insufficient to build a life of intimacy with God.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we are invited into this place the same way as like the same way as uh uh in a in a marriage that quick quick kisses um you know won't suffice.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's more than just kissing.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I I hope people understand this, but this is this is my imagery, right?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Time, you know, a quick moment of hi, how you doing, right?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's times when that will be sufficient.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to check in, say how you doing.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: That that works, right?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's only that and there isn't room for deep, meaningful conversation, right, right, that that relationship will bear the markers of a relationship that's only like on the surface.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's the same, it's the same way as like your and mine.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and I would say I want to throw this out there, it's the same way as uh it's the same way as with a with a corporate body, with a church, right?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: The church who who settles for quick quick prayer, right?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Fly over prayers, right?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Though there is time and space for that, right?
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: God, God, we're here, we're calling out.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: God, would you move?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Would you bless?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Would you, you know, mid-service, those kinds of things, right?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: But a church, you know, as a either personally or corporately has people who um that church will be doing better, that body, that house will be doing better if there's more, if there are people who have carved out and set aside for uh to build intimacy in the depths of the conversation with the Lord.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like it will go better for that that group of people, that church, right?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: If if there is the full breadth of that kind of conversation with the Lord.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so So part of what happens when we pray is is intimate.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: We grow up in we grow in our intimacy with Him.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: That that is there potentially for us.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you could even say that like the quick prayers a little bit more looks like back to our original analogy, right?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like the quick prayers could look like figuring out how to walk.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a little bit like that, right?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas the running looks like, oh, I'm gonna dive deep.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Intimacy, yeah, intimacy, connection.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think I think I just I I feel like the Lord is the Lord is inviting us to crack open the the prayer life, at least as it relates to around me.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just feeling that.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I and I'm and again, I hope I hope this is resonating with people.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I really do feel like the invitation to to dive deep and to maybe even dig, you know, maybe we've gone down, uh, you know, we've dug into the soil, right?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: We've dug, we've gone an inch down in the soil.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the and God is saying, oh no, there's still some ground left to be dug up.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's like you've you're digging a well and the well, you know, pick your pick your metaphor.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're digging a well and you're only three feet down, and yeah, and God's like saying, Oh, now in this season, I want you to, I want you to dig a well that's like 10 feet deep or 15 feet deep.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just I feel that the invitation and the poll and just to explore and to help people understand uh what that means and how that you know affects their life.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because we've had, you know, we've had a raft of new believers.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we've had a raft of new believers even over the last couple of years that have been baptized and even hundreds of people.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like just saying, like, okay, I feel like God's saying, like, now's the time to to start to engage, explain, to teach, to model what it is to have a life filled with prayer.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: And to build a, to build an altar, right?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: To build a system that actually helps people, yes, that invites the fire of God to come.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: And like, like the thought of like a you know, a thought of like a new believer uh actually carving out, you know, a growing, maybe it starts at 10 minutes and maybe it ends in half an hour of prayer every day where God meets them.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, come on, that ex that excites me.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Me.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like the possibilities of what that might happen.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: And not only will that believer benefit from having that kind of uh investment.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the whole church is going to, you know, we've we've now activated one believer, or hopefully many believers, but in that particular case, we've now activated that believer to lean in, yeah, to hear the voice of God, yeah, to build connection and intimacy with God.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's gonna reap, that's gonna like, that's gonna have a ripple effect on what God can do through that person in the run of a life of a church.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I would be really excited for for us to unpack that.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, being being like Jesus, yeah, it's far too easy to jump over the fact that Jay Jesus lived a life of prayer.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: Agreed.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: We want to jump to doing the the public deeds of of ministry, yes, healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons, yeah, you know, preaching the gospel, these things that are obviously doing the works of the kingdom.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, feeding the hungry, and and reaching all these things are good.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: We it's too easy though to skip over to be like Jesus is to live a life of prayer.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: And he prayed in many ways in many situations, and modeled communion with the Father in a way that we can we can learn, we can follow him and and and embrace that that that development project within our own lives.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: I want to learn to live a life of prayer.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it's that so I'd be excited for us to really take that apart.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, how does that work?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like sure.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like what, you know, how does how does, you know, what are the dynamics to that?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think one of the things that would be so fun to to help our friends with is what do I do when I'm not great at it?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: Do I just say, well, I must not be a prayer?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I must not, I know this must not be for me.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, oh, well, actually, your expression of prayer is needed in our church community.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: And we we want to help with, no, you you don't have to assume you're not a prayer.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: There is a lie that has to be uprooted that is very much centered around that is that this lie that eloquence equals effectiveness.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a, and and again, I I think we've we've hit it before, but it's worth saying again that there is that the the that the belief that my words, like you're already casting judgment on the effectiveness of your words.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: You think that they're ineffective.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because you're you think because you think they're ineffective that God thinks that they're ineffective.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's right.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a lie.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so like the honesty, like God, God is like, um, where where is it now?
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think it's like, is it like, you know, uh it's Isaiah.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like where it's the the broken, the broken, contrite spirit that I will not despise.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it Psalms?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, uh here we are with another botched.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, it was like, but God's like, I hate your I hate your festivals, I hate your celebrations.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like the fruit, the fruit that I'm looking for is a broken, like a contrite spirit.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's what he's looking for.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's Isaiah.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but and then I think David sacrifices of God are uh broken heart and contrite spirit, contrite spirit.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what he's looking for, right?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's not looking for the production, right?
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: He's actually looking for the posture of the heart.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like and the I think the production, good or bad, is is secondary, right?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: So so if you so it's not to say that eloquence is all bad, like eloquence is neither here nor there as it relates to how God views prayer.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: So so it's just to say that's a secondary issue.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like it's good or bad, right?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not part of the what of what God's looking for.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_03: We may even end up talking about how to how to position yourself to meet with God.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like how how to get how to come into the right attitude or yeah, like how to like what's the what's the what's the heart posture when we come into the place of prayer?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think I think there's there's stuff like that that isn't often talked about.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and also we're we're in a battle, right?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if the enemy can use a very common tactic of the enemy is to use eloquence and that like I can't pray very well.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't pray out loud.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: All that the fear, the anxiety wrapped up in that.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I always say, like, I still see that plenty around me.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but if the enemy can use it, he's gonna like he's totally gonna use that.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so, but I just again like stuff like the the the heart posture, the things that uh that like helping people understand that, like at least telling them at least telling them the the truth, yeah, right?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: And let letting people decide, okay, is this something that I'm going to with the Lord press past?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: And just be willing.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I and you know, one of the other things is like, and I've we've said this before, but the the Hebrews 5.7, like in the days, you know, when when Jesus was on the earth, like his the prayer in what was it, loud cries, loud cries and tears.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: He learned he learned obedience.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Where it, but uh, that's the point is like we don't get that from the other parts.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: We get that from Gethsemane, maybe.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and we get you know the Lord's Prayer, like Luke 10, uh sorry, Luke 11, um and uh John 17.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: We get some of that, some of the words that he used when he prayed.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but Gethsemane and then Hebrews fills us in on what was that like for Jesus and his prayer.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right, prayer was work, and and tears and tears in both cases, and tears in both cases uh were were evident markers of people who saw how Jesus prayed.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it just stuff like that.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think there's a there's a re there's a uh an invitation to revisit the building blocks and the foundations of the foundations of why it is that we pray.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, let's do it.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm excited about that.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is it my turn to pray?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I don't remember, honestly.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we've I feel like this is kind of I think this is a little shorter than usual, but I feel like we've covered a wild amount.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, is it okay for listeners to know, hey, we're gonna be like we're gonna do that.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think like we're saying we want to hit we're we want to hit prayer.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're gonna we're gonna spend a little bit of a little bit of time on prayer.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh one of the things, uh, where was I gonna go with that?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: I had a thought and then it left me.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: But um maybe I'll just maybe we can just uh I feel like there's just we're scratching the surface.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, would it be okay to even just pray over coming coming episodes that God's gonna just really one thing that we we never do, not never, but we've done like once.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: But if like if you think that this podcast, if you're listening right now and you've made it to them, congratulations.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but also if you think that this there's someone that might benefit from having an open, honest, even uh basic at times, but uh often mystical uh conversation about prayer.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're listening and you think this might be helpful for someone, like feel free to share.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're all in this together.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: Dan and I would say be the first to say we're not experts at this, but we are hungry and to see to see more of uh more people equipped uh in their prayer life, both personally and corporately.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe I'll just pray and then we can we can call it.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, Lord, we just come before you, Lord.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: We just thank you, God.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, we just honor your presence.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: We thank you uh for your presence here, and we love you, we bless you.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: What a gift it is.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: Best of all, God, with us, Lord, and so just in light of our conversation, Lord, I want to thank you for guiding and leading that.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: Lord, would you um would you give much grace in these days, Lord, to help us um according to your word and according to your leading, Lord, would would you help us crack open the the way of prayer, Lord?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um we're not just looking for tips and tricks, we're looking for a depth in relationship, a deepening relationship, not just for Dan and I, but for everyone who wants to go on the journey with us.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: So Lord, we just say, Would you come?
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: Would you help us?
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Lord, we need your wisdom, we need your insight, we need your grace, uh, we need your fire, Lord.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so, God, we we love you, we bless you, uh, and would you go with us today in Jesus' name.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's a wrap on this episode.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest as we all learn to hear God better.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: If your time with us has been encouraging and you think this conversation will be helpful to others, we would love it if you could share this podcast with the people around you.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.