Latest / Brandon Fogal Evolution / #326 - The Christian Zionism Debate Tucker Started (And What Everyone Got Wrong)

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#326 - The Christian Zionism Debate Tucker Started (And What Everyone Got Wrong) · Brandon Fogal Evolution

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  So Tucker Carlson, he has weighed in pretty heavily on Christian Zionism.
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  He doesn't seem like a person that is pleased with it at all.
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  I want to start off right at the get go.
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  I would consider myself a Christian Zionist, but the way that it's characterized,
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  I don't really agree with in a lot of ways.
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  People, it's become like a term like Nazism, like you're a Nazi.
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  You believe in mass genocide. You believe in babies being murdered.
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  Do you believe in, you know, and those aren't the things that I,
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  obviously I do not want that.
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  And I would say normal Christians, if you're a normal Christian,
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  you do not want that. But I think that's just things that it's like a straw
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  man or something that's just thrown on to people, whereas it doesn't really
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  represent what Christian Zionism is.
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  Tucker Carlson got into this. We're going to take a look at a clip,
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  first of all, and then we're going to analyze this.
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  But I want to point out, he sets up a, I would say, a false dichotomy between.
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  What a Christian Zionist is. And they put it in the picture of dispensationalism.
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  And I am not a dispensationalist, and I know a lot of people that agree with
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  Christian Zionists doesn't mean that you're a dispensationalist.
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  But we're going to take a look at this and let you decide. But I wanted to kind
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  of set it up on that way, but we're going to break it down pretty,
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  in depth here what's jesus's role in dispensationalist theology,
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  well jesus's role in dispensational theology is
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  so it depends to whom so john nelson darby the inventor of dispensationalism
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  referred to the church the christian church as a parentheses,
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  that god's main plan is Israel, but because they've been naughty and disobedient,
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  the church comes in and we're a parentheses.
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  So instead of being like the bride of Christ, the church is more like a summer
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  fling that this is where the rapture comes in, that eventually God will rapture us, take us out.
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  We're gone completely. And then Israel can resume its role as the big picture.
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  It's a very Jewish way of looking at the scripture where Jews and Judaism and
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  Jewish people is always at the center of the scripture, as opposed to Jesus
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  being at the center of the scripture.
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  Right there, I would say it's putting up, setting up a kind of a false narrative right there.
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  I don't think it as a Christian, being a Zionist, a person, it's just pretty
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  much just for me. This is like, and I don't know if I'm like,
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  I meet the litmus test of what people would consider a Zionist or whatever.
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  The actual state of Israel itself,
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  I don't know. I mean, that could be the real Israel or it could not be. I don't know.
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  I think it is. But I just look at it from the perspective of the Bible.
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  I recognize in the Bible that Israel is throughout the scriptures,
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  that it's kind of like their tree, you know, their family heritage.
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  And we've kind of as Gentiles been been able to be grafted into it.
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  And I wouldn't say that Zionist like perspective is that Israel is everything.
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  I almost have to step back because I don't know if I align completely with,
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  normal what they characterize as Zionists but I don't think it is that you have to
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  think Israel is the end all be all but Jesus obviously obviously is the end
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  all be all he's kind of like the point of the whole purpose of scripture it's
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  all about him it's all about Christ,
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  I think the difference is and I would almost take my step back.
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  I'm not a dispensationalist.
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  I do see how that has come about. It's kind of made it into there's God has
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  two distinct peoples. He has the Jewish people or the people of Israel,
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  and he has the Gentile, the Goyim, and they're these two groups.
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  And I would almost say that it is kind of like that because the issue I have
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  with it is this whole distinction list theology that just says that we're all homogenized.
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  We're all just one group where it is clearly throughout the Bible,
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  but God made it kind of difficult.
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  He kind of made it hard for the nations kind of in the, in the way that he made the Jews look worse.
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  Odd weird different a peculiar people like throughout history we can see that
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  the jews stand out wherever they go they stand out and it's like
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  it's hard to get along with them
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  in a lot of ways because they are so different in the way that they live
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  and i think god made it that way he made them to uh to be bound by like keeping the kosher laws.
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  All the laws that he gave in in the first five books of moses like they like
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  those are that's their laws that's like their constitution and what they're
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  to abide by in this in this video,
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  tucker they got into and where it got about like the the jews today in israel
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  today they're like almost like a false israel a false judaism because they're not doing sacrifices
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  and that that is kind of disqualified them from being the true like following
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  god's guidelines real because i mean
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  if you do look at the the bible itself, God gives out, gives laws
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  and he, they, they are to do sacrifices and how to,
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  atone for their sins and cover their sins.
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  But really that is in the context. The only, the way that that even is characterized or is carried out,
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  is if there is a functioning temple, like that, it only works if there's a functioning
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  temple, tabernacle, a place, you know.
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  And I, this is where I, the difference that I have.
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  And I probably am different than even normal Christians because normal quote
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  unquote, quote unquote, Christians see it as like Jesus came,
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  he's the fulfillment of everything.
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  And like this new people, God created a brand new people, which I like there,
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  I would say, yes, he did. Yes. But yes and no, it's, it's still the continuing
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  story that he had from the beginning.
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  It's just Gentiles are brought in to the community of faith.
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  And this is where I kind of just see it as the difference like they're like.
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  They're not able to carry out
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  their laws. They're not able to because they don't have a temple going.
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  And but I don't it's just because it was destroyed in 70 AD.
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  If there was a functioning temple, they would continue doing sacrifices.
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  And those sacrifices are not in the same level as Jesus sacrifice,
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  like like infinitely different.
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  Like Jesus's sacrifice is for our sins and atoning for us before God that we
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  can be with him forever or actually making them go away.
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  But the the sacrifices that they were doing in like judaism and with the jewish
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  people and the laws of moses what they were carrying out that was so that they could,
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  come in contact with the holiness of god in this present world that's kind of
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  what that was going on because just because they're not doing the actual sacrifices
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  and they've they've created this they've manufactured this way of living,
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  it's kind of a way to function without an active temple actually happening and.
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  And I just see that this Christian Zionism and the people that are so opposed
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  to it right now, it's become just a talking point.
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  And it's a way to turn people against Israel and whether they are the real Israel
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  or not. I mean, it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't be if they're abiding by that religion.
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  And it's not just an ethnicity like you're Jewish, you're born Jewish,
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  and that's that's who you are.
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  It is an identity as in you can convert to Judaism and you are fully Jewish.
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  Like, and if you have a child, that child is Jewish.
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  Like if, if you're a woman and you have that, a child and that child is Jewish,
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  it's like, you are fully that as a proselyte.
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  And that's the issue that the apostles in the new Testament were having such
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  a struggle with because like the conversations that we're having right now,
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  weren't the same ones that the apostles were having.
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  They were where it was like, they had to like.
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  They had to correct it so much as in people wanted to become jewish to be safe
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  i gotta be i gotta be safe and make sure i'm a part of the tribe of israel because
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  all the promises are to israel and now,
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  that they were gentiles were trying to convert to judaism and become jewish
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  and that's the issue with it's happening in the new testament we've like over
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  corrected so much on our side that we're saying like,
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  the conversation is just completely different we're like making it like.
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  On both sides it's like there has to be some middle ground because within christianity
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  we're all at each other's necks we all say we have the truth or we have the
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  truth we like we believe this about this,
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  particular doctrine and we're right we're always trying to prove each other
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  wrong but it's like if we step back really there is a like a truth but i don't
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  think like these things like,
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  i think god has given us some leeway some flexibility like of it's just a matter
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  of like preference in the body of Christ, just like in the Old Testament.
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  And when Jesus came on the scene, there wasn't just one group of Israel.
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  There was Sadducees, there was Pharisees, the Essenes, different sects of Judaism
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  who were abiding by and carrying out the commands the best that they could and
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  how they interpreted it.
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  That's how I see like as Christianity today. That's why we went off in so many
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  offshoots in so many different directions. elections.
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  I don't like that. I definitely don't like that. I hate that,
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  that we aren't just like one body of Christ.
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  You know, Roman Catholics, evangelicals, Orthodox, let's kind of come together.
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  That's what I would want.
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  But now like Tucker Carlson and
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  a lot of people, a lot of people on the internet is making it about this.
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  Zionism is becoming, like I said, it's the term of like, you're a Nazi.
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  And people would rather be called a Nazi today than a Zionist.
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  And really the way that i see zionism like in,
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  the way is different i would say than what tucker sees he sees it as like if
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  you are a zionist or you believe in that it's because you you have to you are
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  obligated to support the nation state of israel like the actual state that is,
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  created now and you know function benjamin netanyahu his government and i don't
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  see that at all i i don't think there is no obligation on Christians to support that.
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  And I'm not like if I see Israel like that state is doing something evil,
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  I would say, yeah, don't do that. That's evil.
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  But it's a difference between recognizing the people of Israel because you can't get away from it.
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  Even in the New Testament, there's it is.
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  It's not like the people of Israel, the physical descendants of Israel or just gone.
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  You know, it's Jesus wiped them off. You know, like I, he created a brand new religion.
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  Really the religion of Jesus is Judaism. Christianity is just this,
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  this thing that we Gentiles have, we've created, we've talking about Jesus and
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  trying to make sense of it,
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  but we're like severed from, in a lot of ways, from the root,
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  from the source of it. Not, not, not,
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  in a lot of ways, because I do think that that is why there's so much confusion
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  within the body of Christ, why everybody's doing their own thing.
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  Even if you're a Roman Catholic and you say, we're the one true church,
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  I mean, you can bash on Protestants all you want, but like Orthodox,
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  you can't forget about them.
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  They left you 500 years before the Protestants.
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  They were fed up with you and went a different way, 500 years.
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  I just think that Roman Catholics are more disgusted with Protestants because it's fresher.
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  Even though it's 500 years ago, it's fresher, and it's tough.
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  I guess it's still a sore wound that that part, Martin Luther and his whole,
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  gang left and all that, and they started something.
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  But I think all of Christians, I think we're all trying to get to whatever is true.
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  We want the truth so bad that we're willing to fight over it,
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  you know? And I just think that like with Zionism, because I think this is a
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  big issue. We cannot just skate past this. This is very critical.
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  But the way that it's painted by Tucker Carlson, the way that it's painted by
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  Candace Owens or Nick Fuentes or whoever else out there right now.
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  The way that what we're saying, these are just words, but it's like,
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  what do you really mean behind it?
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  What are you saying behind it? Because if you actually go to the bare bones scripture, Sure.
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  You cannot just discount and throw away that the people of Israel, this is their story.
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  It's not to say that God choosing them and calling them out among all the other
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  nations, that means he loves them more.
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  Like in a sense, like because there is a sense that they are chosen,
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  like they're physical, that physical group of people, they're chosen naturally,
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  but it doesn't mean they're all going to go to heaven.
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  It doesn't mean they're all like you know even our kind of,
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  warped up version of heaven as gentile christians it is this kind of escapism
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  we want to get out there in the clouds get far away whereas the biblical representation
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  of heaven it's like it's a.
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  A physical reality that this whole universe is going to be recreated into perfect
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  paradise it's not going to be just we're floating you know ghosts or anything like that.
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  And I think that we just, us, there is just this disconnect that has happened
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  with Christians because we were, we're, we're struggling through this issue,
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  of what do we do with the Jewish people?
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  Like, did, did God make those covenants with them?
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  In the first five books and the whole like you could say the first five books
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  and then the whole other like i don't know rest of the old testament it was
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  all trying to get them to carry out what the five first five books said,
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  and then he and then jesus finally comes on the scene and then he's he changes
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  his mind he goes a completely different direction i think the the mystery of
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  the gentiles the mystery you know that was kept.
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  Ages and then revealed that was a struggle for the jewish people because they
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  didn't necessarily see it coming they thought it was all about them you know
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  we're special we're unique no one else can be a part of this,
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  that's why the jesus would say you go like these pharisees you travel across sea to make,
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  these proselytes of your religion but you make them twice a son of hell then
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  who i don't know i forget the rest of the verse but something like that because
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  it's not just religion it's not about i'm i'm a roman catholic or i'm Eastern
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  Orthodox or I'm Jewish or whatever,
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  if your hope and your security is in that, it's like you're going to fall short
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  because God demands perfection.
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  And he's not even concerned about these labels that we've invented and created,
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  but it doesn't remove their unique calling that he's given to the Jewish people.
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  That didn't go away. There's still a distinction between Jews and Gentiles.
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  It doesn't matter because if you're just honest and you read the New Testament,
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  I know, of course, like if we
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  go to Galatians, the promise is to Jesus Christ. He is the heir apparent.
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  And it's like whoever is in Jesus has all the promises.
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  All those promises go to them. But it doesn't remove that he is kind of like
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  the embodiment of Israel. He's the embodiment. He's the king of the Jews.
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  Jews and I think the glory that God has for for all of humanity is that we would
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  be united Jews and Gentiles but it's just this struggle that we have,
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  it's going to continue going on like and I see Nick Fuentes I see Tucker Carlson
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  they're just kind of just yipping and yapping but they're missing the point
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  of what what's actually going on here,
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  they're just seeing their version their vision of what Jews are of what Israel is and,
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  and I'm not even saying necessarily that that the nation that we have right
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  there, that that is them. But it's like, it doesn't make sense that it wouldn't be.
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  There's probably evil people in that government, a part of that people,
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  but they're still trying to identify as following the God of Israel, the covenant God.
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  And I think God has preserved his people. This is the times of the Gentiles.
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  We're nearing the end of it, or it will come to an end eventually.
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  And I do see it as God will eventually kind of turn his head back to the Jewish
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  people once they embrace the Messiah.
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  That's how I see. I think you can't read through Romans 11 and not really recognize that.
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  It's not that we are obligated at all to support Israel. I don't see that at
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  all, but I think it is recognizing them for who they are.
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  And that is a good thing as Gentiles for us to do.
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  Because even Paul said, you are indebted to them because we are sharing with
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  them in spiritual things.
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  All right, we'll leave it at that. I hope you think about all this,
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  drop a comment and I'll see you on the next one.