Latest / Blood and Brains Podcast / Obsession

Transcript

Obsession · Blood and Brains Podcast

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: In this podcast, we'll be discussing the medical accuracy and mental health themes of our favorite horror movies.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Garnet is a mental health professional while Katia is a PA at an off-brand planned parenthood.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Together, we'll educate the shit out of some great, not so great movies.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is for entertainment purposes only.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is not medical or mental health advice, nor should you take any from Randos on the internet.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Never.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: So what'd you think of this movie?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed it a lot.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'll just get the trigger warnings out right now.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Cause you should.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: You warned me before going in, but dead cat.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: It really fucked me up in the theater.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: My OCD brain kept giving me intrusive thoughts that UK was dead at home.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Why UK?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because she's the dumb one.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: She's so sweet, but she has one brain cell.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, baby.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Not even.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: She's not, she's an honorary orange.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: She gets the brain cell sometimes.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: She's so cuddly though.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: She makes up for her lack of insillets with her adorable cuddliness.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, dead cat warning that also screwed with me a bit.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: For we both have adorable cats at home.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know why Karen's.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Another trigger warning.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Another trigger warning, sexual assault.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I'll say is it's not used as a plot point, it's used more to characterize their relationship, which doesn't bother me as much with sexual assault on screen.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: One of my biggest pet peeves is using sexual assault as a plot device.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say one more trigger warning actually is a suicide attempt.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: For some people, they find that triggering to watch or like OD attempts like that.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, there's a lot of things, but it was a great movie.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's I said before I watched these movies to see like how desensitized I am in for entertainment and you know all that stuff.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was shook the entire time.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like very uncomfortable, but in a great way.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: I like that it was a monkey's paw movie and it was actually a good one.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that using monkey's paw in more of a horror setting, you get more of the it's more than just be careful what you wish for.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's you're gonna get what your wish deserves.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Can you think of any other like monkey's paw movies that?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so actually Wishmaster is one of them.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen all the Wishmaster series, and it's literally evil genie on steroids.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so for example, the one girl is like, I want to be beautiful forever, so he makes her a mannequin.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just really kind of like messed up wish granting that it's not even necessarily what you wanted, but in the realm of it.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what this reminded me of.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, Bear wanted so desperately for her to love him that it turned into this whole toxic, unhealthy thing.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, she loves you, but it's healthy and toxic.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you created this and didn't care about her feelings.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have no sympathy for Bear, obviously.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we'll get into that.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: My monkey's paw movie that I can think of is a not horror movie.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's the 1984 Wonder, like Wonder Woman 1984, the second one that came out of the new ones.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was not a good movie.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I really liked the first Wonder Woman movie, but and I love Pedro Pascal, and he's in the second one, but it just was not as much of a hit.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd have to check that out.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't yeah, but it sounds like it sucks.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you wanna yeah?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to get into the plot of spoilers ahead?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, lots of spoilers and triggers ahead, y'all.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um, we're introduced to Bear, and he's having a conversation with a waitress about how all these feelings that he has, um, it it really comes off as like, wow, someone was nice with me and now I'm in love.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of bizarre and childlike to me, but I don't know.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: What was a white knight-like the whole I put coins in the relationship slot and I get back relationship.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, basically, if I put enough coins in this uh like friends will eventually become romantic and fall in love.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Even when you think too, when they're in the car together, and his idea of what romance is versus what Nikki thinks like love is are like different things, like kind of like that limerence piece, which is obsession versus like an actual kind of like love, because love is like not selfish, love is doing what's best for your other person, even if it hurts you, it's not all consuming.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: But even that take I thought was interesting to show the difference in that.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: But no, he's like that stereotypical nice guy with the fedora lady.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: We first see him with his friend Ian and a waitress giving him some bad advice on how to woo Nikki.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Bear is seemingly boring man with no personality, aside from I'm a piece of shit who left a bottle of oxy open to kill my cat.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then instead of telling his friends about his cat, he's a sociopath who just goes to trivia like normal.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Which makes total sense.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Also, like you gotta think about how much of these bottles he had unopened lying around.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like that stuff is like childproof.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And also, why does he have all these pain pills lying around as his grandma's name on it?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think we talked about this.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: He strikes me more as like a party drug person than like a true addict.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because we don't see him doing anything to like get drugs or anything like that.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe just someone who just shouldn't be trusted with pets.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: That poor cat deserved better.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're very, very down on this cat thing.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, we're both upset about it.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then how he tries to uh win Nikki's affection over, which he should have just gone for the crystal necklace that's never destroyed lives like the one wish willow.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: But he also made it that way because he's the worst.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: He wished for a bad wish.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, he goes to the magic shop to look for a gift for Nikki and he chooses the one wish willow.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: After trivia, he drives Nikki home where she confronts him about his feelings.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of being a big boy and communicating, he stonewalls her.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, perfectly healthy and normal.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's something all adults do.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like she gave you an out, bro.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, Do you like me?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's straight up kindergarten stuff.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just be a man about it.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: But no, he rather use a wish willow trick.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I was going to say, um, and then after he, you know, wishes for her to love him more than anything else in the world, she like 180s her personality.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: She's not even her anymore.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: She's obsessed with him.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Just her whole like life is wrapped around him, like a literal show of herself to please the cat killer.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and she acts very erratically, and at times you see like slithers of her real self come out and reach for help.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And bear treats is like a normal relationship.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, like all the normal relationship things, like non-consensual sex and being with your partner 24-7.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: It felt really much like even when she was coming through screaming and wanting help, being genuinely confused, you would think, hey, maybe I should try to get her some help or something, or maybe I don't know, there's something not right here.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Oh, well, I had sex, so it's cool.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, literally, that seemed to be his mindset.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I had sex, it was cool, it's fine.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, even his friends, even though that Ian guy is a jerk, even he was saying, like, what are you doing?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing with this queerly mentally unwell person who needs help?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So going on, Nikki becomes more unhinged and eventually becomes murderous to their friends, Ian and Sarah.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And when they seemingly get in the way of her feelings with Bear, Bear discovers the only way he can save Nikki is by killing himself or dying.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and eventually does the correct thing and releases her from his wish, but not before Nikki makes her own wish, hoping he'd love her forever.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he really follows the path of a coward in this, too, because he was trying to vomit up the pills so he wouldn't actually die, and then her wish took over and he left and didn't finish vomiting it all up because he wanted to be with her.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And what's actually cool is the actor like improved that too.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I went in like a deep dive, but he actually improved that part of like, hey, why don't we do this?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, he's a coward, we should do this.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought that was neat.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Just the cast in the crew, everything was I don't know.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I could gush on and on how much I like this movie, I gotta stop.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, you don't have to stop.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the podcast is about.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Before we get to the educational stuff, I was just fangirl, that they're all very impressive.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the mental health thing that I'm gonna say at the end is not a criticism, it's just compared to real-world things, and that's all.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: But go on.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess I'll go into some medical accuracy of some of the scenes.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: There were a few that really sticked out in my head.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the first is the scene where Nikki waits for Baird not moving aside from pissing and shitting herself for a good number of hours.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Say she would basically say she passed out or something and Bear took her to the ER.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: What I would be worried about in this setting as a provider, I would get concerned for two things hearing someone was immobile for hours and hours at a time and then they pass out.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: First one would be maybe like a blood clot that traveled to her lung and she's having some kind of respiratory distress.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: However, she's a seemingly healthy 20-something, so that's not super high on my differential.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Unless she had risk factors, like she was a smoker or there's a family history.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't put it too high.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: But a big one that I would think about is rhabdomyolysis.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be calling it rhabdo from here on out.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Rhabdo, it sounds like some type of dog breed.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Go on.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think like Pokemon, actually.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So many medical things sound like Pokemon.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's a starter Pokemon and it's made out of blood.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Blood quatmon.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, lovely.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Rhabdomyysis happens because when you're immobilized, oxygen isn't getting into your muscles.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: So they start to break down.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: They break down into something called myoglobin.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And your kidneys, which are the body's filter for everything, don't like that.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: The myoglobin gets stuck and caught in them, and it can't really filter blood the way it's supposed to.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: And this can lead to kidney failure.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Some symptoms of kidney failure are darker bloody urine, severe muscle pain, and weakness.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: One thing about rhabdo where it would make me a little worried is if Bear would have told me she was nausea, like she had vomiting and urine and diarrhea and whatever she had around her, I'd be worried about dehydration, which is something that actually sets you up for rhabdo even more.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, this man took her to a well, they went to a party.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Instead.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: They went to a party.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Just how to jab that in.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: The treatment is really just rehydration and monitoring the electrolytes in the kidney function.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: If kidney failure is very severe, it can lead to a lifetime of dialysis, if not fatal.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: When we think of kidney function and kidney failure, there's like an acute kidney injury, which is what she would likely have, where something very temporary affects the kidneys.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if you remove that, the kidney function usually comes back.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I would expect for her as a young 20-something.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: But say she goes to a party, ignores her symptoms, and then drinks or just otherwise dehydrates herself and she stays in kidney failure for a long time.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: It can definitely damage the organs, and that can lead to a lifetime of dialysis, if not fatality.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So while she was reading that really long, disturbing poem, her kidneys might have been shriveling up into a lifetime of dialysis.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's horrifying more than the poem.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I also am easily horrified by medical things, as we all know.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And as you all will know by me talking eventually.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that stood out to me medically was Sarah's death.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing about me is like every healthcare provider has something they don't like.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people, it's like mucus or people don't deal with poop or vomiting.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I actually have a couple, but one of mine, two of mine are severe trauma.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I can't look at it, it fucks me up, and teeth things.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like teeth either.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Those teeth dreams where you're like spinning out all your teeth, nightmare fuel.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Go on.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I just had a 100%.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Ugh.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So Sarah's death stood out to me just because of the level of brutality.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't think tiny little Nikki would have the ability to cause that much damage unless she was like psyched out on like PCP.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: There has to be something like altering about that.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she was like thrown and out or like with extreme adrenaline hate and just that whole scene.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a balloon ready to pop.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then it popped and it was still scary.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: If I was working at the ER and Sarah came in and she was still somehow breathing, okay.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't even know how the treatment would go.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know she'd need to be intubated like right away.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that if they wanted to tip the scale into hell no, they should have showed what would happen to her teeth.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: That would have been like cherry on the top for me.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Cherry on top of the gore someday.
• 13:43
  unknown: God.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: But they'd probably intubate her.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: She'd need a reconstructive facial surgery, but there's no chance in hell that she's making it out of this injury.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is absolutely 100%.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the level of trauma that it reminds me of is like if you've ever heard of those poor people who they're driving under an underpass and people throw things down into the cars, like that reminds me of the level of trauma we would be like high speed, heavyweight, that's the amount of trauma we're seeing.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's a little unrealistic that Nikki could do that.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's crazy.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: That reminds me of, I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Um The Good Son with Macaulay Coken when he was a kid.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically about an evil child back in the 90s.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: But when he uh pushes the like straw man or whatever it was, like a mannequin down on the underpass and causes this giant collision of cars.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's what that immediately made me think of.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the trauma of that.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we could do that movie at some point.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: That is a classic 90s, I think.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's a 90s or an 80s.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: 90s movie of horror and why kids are scary.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then my last point that I was able to pick out kind of leads us gently into your mental health.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was really interesting that at first Bear reached for the gun when he was trying to commit suicide.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was always taught that men choose more destructive methods of death, which usually makes them more successful than women.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was told it's because women choose more passive ways of dying that don't hurt their appearance.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, that just seems like a misogynistic theory and not something that's factual, but I can't prove that.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd love to see an actual study on it.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know when I learned about that stuff when I was in college, um, males were more successfully completing suicide on their first try, like statistic-wise.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was like a while ago, though.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why they use the more lethal attempts.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And people are usually under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, with the women, it's more of them trying like a painless way with ODs, but I was never given a clear reason why that's the case.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's where I was given the whole, oh, they choose passive ways that won't affect their appearance.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I don't know.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: That seems sus.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know if it's that.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if it's like about accessibility and like what's available, what feels more painless.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: But regardless, yeah, it's terrible.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: If anyone feels that way, they should call Crisis Line 911.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I'll leave that.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you have any thoughts about suicide from this movie?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, from some of the experiences I've had in life, I would say that sometimes women also commit lethal with certain weapons too, like guns.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought this was a pretty accurate depiction, all of it, and no one should commit suicide and they should get help.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Those are my agrees.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like a lot of it oh, sorry.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: What about when Nikki did some self-harm?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that that was that oh that hurt to watch.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: So her self-harm, um, for some people, the reason why they self-harm is a way to like almost feel or control pain.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Different people do it for different reasons.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know in this like case it's because the wish has possessed her basically, and her real self was coming out, and she just wanted to be free of like what was happening to her.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I looked at it as kind of like a state of almost like mania that was happening to her.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the self-harm stuff, a lot of times people use it to control pain or to feel something.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's also an addictive component to it, unfortunately, which is why it's hard for people to stop self-harming, which is why um going to like a mental health professional, psychiatrist, whatever bolt will help somebody stop because there's an endorphin release after you do it a certain amount of times, unfortunately.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what keeps people going back to it.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a hit of like endorphins, and just you don't think about your problem because of that.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very maladaptive and very painful.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: In the movie, we see a scene where they take Nikki to the ER after her self-harm.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think would happen if she presented?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: In the real world, I would hope that she would have been 302'd immediately.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So the whole thing, like what I didn't understand while watching it, and I get like it's a movie and it's for the plot and things.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: She was like dancing around and like running around dancing, all bloodied up, and like Bear was like arguing with the nurse.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she should have been committed.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, with the way that she was acting erratically, she was clearly wounded.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Even if she's like, Oh, I don't want to hurt myself.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I didn't do this.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, a medical professional can assess, like, hey, this person is a danger to himself or others, and the same thing with like delusions and psychosis.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought a more accurate depiction would have been that she would be 302.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it I'm wondering, like, also Oh, and for lay people, what does 302 mean?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it's an involuntary commitment, which basically means you could put somebody involuntarily in a psychiatric unit to protect themselves or others.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: For I believe, at least in our state, it's 48 hours, I think, and then it could be extended by something called a 303, but a doctor has to like sign off on all of that to prove that like that you can't like take care of yourself.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so well, that's what all of that is.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: 201 in our state is you go there voluntarily for help.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and just like I said, with the manio most like state of like her erratic impulsive behavior and the way she was talking, the way she would shift emotions so quick.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: I would have thought that a mental health professional or a doctor would have been like, oh, she needs help.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Which I don't understand why Bear was finding.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to think of like worst-case scenario of how this would happen in the real world.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you get a real jaded health professional who thinks she's just on drugs.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've unfortunately seen attitudes like that.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: They are very, very, very few and far between.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Most people in medicine care about everybody and their patients so much, even if they're patients in society or people who look to down upon like addicts.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Most of us just genuinely want to help.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: But even then, when I was doing my ER stuff in school, if we had someone who we thought was under the influence and they were that severe, we'd hold them until they sober up.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, if she was using substances, I would feel like that's even more of a reason to keep her because you don't even know what she's using.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: She might OD, like something might happen to her physically.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would think, like, what do you do when you're gonna do it?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: I do know some psyches won't consult until they've come off the drugs, though.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Still, yeah.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, I agree.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: She should have been, she should have been involuntary committed.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: So what else do you got for us mental health-wise?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: So the only other thing that I have really is I feel like this movie showcases a very extreme version of the anxious attachment style and super extreme.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and by that I mean like there's different attachment styles that we have with a romantic partner.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: It usually comes from when we're kids, like our attachment to our parents.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a psychologist to give you guys a little history lesson, because I know that's why you guys tuned in was for history.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Mary Ainsworth was a psychologist who did an experiment called Einworth's Strange Situation.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically how infants react when a caregiver was present versus not present.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: If they so if they noticed the parent came back, if they were secure, if they were panicking, if they didn't like care at all, like just didn't even react.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Which again translates into the Romantic partners as adults.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: The anxious attachment would be like how Nikki would act, but again to the extreme of someone who's just basing everything around that other person out of fear of abandonment and fear that they're going to be left.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: So they base a lot of their validation on the partner, her standing there and not moving, like she can only like exist if he's around.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like similar if there's somebody who just is waiting and staring and staring at their cell phone, waiting for that text message, because they need to be reassured that the relationship's okay, that they're not gonna be left.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or if anyone's seen audition, her just staring at that phone until it rings.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's another crazy depiction of unhealthy everything.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's anyway.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Haven't seen it.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: You've ever seen audition.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know Vic has.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's a wild ride of I hope needles don't bother you too much.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean needles bother me.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And feet?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Feet bother.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh well, feet bother me, not the needles.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, that's that part.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's another thing I don't do well.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's feet, teeth, and nails.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, nails.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like nails either.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you do the stuff with the rings, though.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: You said you don't mind like cutting rings off people.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: That I would mind.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's just fun.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're playing with power tools.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I didn't think of it that way.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: I just anyway.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so she's like represents, I feel like a very over-dramatized version of an anxious attachment.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of how like I viewed it.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like a lot of the movie, too, is like a metaphor for really just unhealthy relationships and people who are selfish, like Bear, who just want something until they have it, and then don't treat that person right either.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because he also seems to have somewhat of like um an anxious-avoided attachment.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, that's a person that like they'll be really like into a person, maybe kind of clingy, but then when they feel like the other person's getting a little too close, they start to pull back, they start to feel suffocated, they don't want to be around that person as much, they become cold, distant.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: So even um him avoiding her a bit and developing feelings for Sarah, I think that's some anxious avoidant attachment.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And Nikki just wanting to be a part of every single thing Bear was doing.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: I do feel bad for Nikki though.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: I have to wonder what happened after like that ending.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, was she avoided of everything?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: We gotta wonder.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta wonder because in this in this universe, the one wish willow is real.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: We have established that with the money raining down on Ian.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yeah.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you would hope that would like get her out of everything.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: You would hope.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's all we have for tonight.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate it.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Next week, we're going to tackle the taking of Deborah Logan, available for streaming on Amazon and Tubi.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Any last thoughts, Garnet?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Besides the fact that I love this movie.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was one of my favorite movies of this year, my favorite horror movie, and that's a lot.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: If anything can make me cower in my seat because I'm so uncomfortable, congratulations.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: You've won.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you guys for tuning in.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: The Blood and Brains podcast is produced and edited by my amazing husband, Vic of Comic Books Beyond Podcast and YouTube channel.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: So send any complaints to the production to him.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, everyone stay well.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, thanks for listening, and never hesitate to reach out for mental health treatment if you need it.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's my takeaway.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Bye, guys.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Update for our next podcast episode.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: We have changed from the taking of Deborah Logan to midsomar, available at streaming on HBO Max and for purchase at Amazon or Apple TV.