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Progress update on MDOT’s electric vehicle charging program · Talking Michigan Transportation

• 0:07
  Jeff Cranson: Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast.
• 0:10
  Jeff Cranson: I'm Jeff Cranson.
• 0:12
  Jeff Cranson: I had a chance to catch up with Steve Minton, who heads up the Office of Major Projects at MDOT, but has also been in a role as the project manager for the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Program.
• 0:29
  Jeff Cranson: This was started a few years ago thanks to federal money doled out to several states, and it was his job to get that money into use quickly, working with contractors and a lot of people who were new to the industry of building electric vehicle chargers and faced a lot of challenges along the way.
• 0:48
  Jeff Cranson: But Steve and his team have been steadfast in their commitment and their work to get things done, and they've made a lot of progress the last few years.
• 0:58
  Jeff Cranson: And I thought it would be interesting to hear from him since we last spoke back in March of 2024 about where things stand and how they're going.
• 1:07
  Jeff Cranson: He has a lot of good things to say and a lot of insights about what goes into managing this kind of program.
• 1:12
  Jeff Cranson: So I hope you enjoy the conversation.
• 1:14
  Jeff Cranson: Once again, here to talk about NEVI.
• 1:18
  Jeff Cranson: And as I mentioned in the intro, we've made some progress, although, um, like the all the states involved in this program, there are uh a lot of challenges, and I know that people are frustrated, especially EV drivers who are very eager to have a full service grid and and not have any range anxiety.
• 1:38
  Jeff Cranson: And I know that's that's your goal and that's your team's goal.
• 1:41
  Jeff Cranson: So uh Steve, let's start from scratch and go over some of the things we've talked about before.
• 1:46
  Jeff Cranson: Um, can you kind of trace the history of the the money coming through in the IIJA and how it filters down to Michigan and explain the program?
• 1:56
  Steve Minton: Yeah, sure.
• 1:57
  Steve Minton: So as you mentioned, it was part of IIJA or bill, and um which was, I believe, enacted in what late 2022?
• 2:05
  Steve Minton: That's right.
• 2:06
  Steve Minton: Um so uh MDOT um started working, you know, from there and working with EGLE, um, kind of partnering with them on you know, how would we stand up the program and and work uh towards you know um using the funding.
• 2:21
  Steve Minton: And worked with the federal government a little bit too in terms of you know how we would proceed with contracting and those kind of um, you know, getting the getting the funding out in a way that makes sense.
• 2:32
  Steve Minton: So um I came involved in about um, let's say mid-2023, and then uh started moving ahead with um developing a um a contract process that would allow us to select in a best value manner um interested companies through uh a request for proposals and uh that were you know go through some level of qualification as we evaluate um kind of their ability to put these um chargers in the ground.
• 3:00
  Steve Minton: And then uh we moved towards uh what's called a design, build, operate, maintain contract where they do the design of the site, um they construct the site and then they operate and maintain the site.
• 3:11
  Steve Minton: Uh, key component of the contract is that there's a five-year OM requirement, sorry, operations and maintenance requirement.
• 3:18
  Steve Minton: And so um we did our initial what we called round one solicitation.
• 3:24
  Steve Minton: We made selections, we announced those selections um in 2024, February of 24, uh started working on bringing those companies um into the um under contract and um getting them to begin on their on their installation or design and installation process.
• 3:42
  Steve Minton: Um so we had those you know in in process and then we um then obligated another round of funding um for round two um later in I think it was in 2024, and uh started that selection process.
• 3:58
  Steve Minton: And uh same thing, we selected companies and um through that process and announced that in um 2025, June of 25.
• 4:07
  Steve Minton: And then um we then uh during that time there was a pause with the um basically the whole program with the new administration coming in in January of 25.
• 4:18
  Steve Minton: Because of our ability to uh keep going, um we you know with the funding we had essentially obligated for rounds one and rounds two, um we were able to keep moving with those processes to bring companies that you know we had selected under contract while we waited for um clarity on what would be going you know happening with the rest of the funding.
• 4:39
  Steve Minton: So Michigan's about 110 million.
• 4:42
  Steve Minton: We had um obligated about half of it for rounds one and rounds two before the pause, let's say.
• 4:48
  Steve Minton: And then once we got that clarity uh from the federal government in August of 2025, we were then able to proceed with our round three.
• 4:57
  Steve Minton: And we are um we had put out our RFP for round three of the rest of like let's say about 51 million in uh June of this year, 2026, and um we'll be expecting proposals in August, and we'll make um selections from there.
• 5:13
  Steve Minton: So all told we will probably be selecting anywhere between 100 and 150 sites with a between all three rounds, and uh and you know, with the let's say initial selections we made are you know, we've got seven operational stations, we've got another seven in construction, another 20 some in design, and another um 30 or so waiting to get under contract for the rounds one and two, and then we'll be making probably about 60 selections for round three.
• 5:41
  Steve Minton: So I'd kind of an uh overview of you know from kind of the beginning to kind of where we're at now of um our progress on in the program over the last three years.
• 5:50
  Jeff Cranson: So that's a really good rundown.
• 5:52
  Jeff Cranson: And um because of your background, now you're heading up the office of major projects, but for a while you were working in innovative contracting um and kind of overlapping with your time as the project manager for this for the NEVI program.
• 6:05
  Jeff Cranson: Why does design bid build maintain make a lot of sense for this in particular?
• 6:11
  Jeff Cranson: Because I know we use it on some road and bridge projects, but it's not right for everything.
• 6:16
  Jeff Cranson: But talk about why it makes sense here.
• 6:19
  Steve Minton: Yeah, great question.
• 6:20
  Steve Minton: So, you know, in our innovative contracting area, we do what we call innovative or alternative delivery, um, where we use a design build or a progressive design build or a CMGC, uh contractor, manager, general contractor type contract.
• 6:35
  Steve Minton: In this case for NEVI, because of that legal requirement for the operations and maintenance phase, it's set up you know well for this, you know, design, build, operate, maintain contract type, which is you know kind of thought of as like a P3 or a public-private partnership.
• 6:52
  Steve Minton: Um and you know, the onus is on them to, you know, we're not designing their sites.
• 6:59
  Steve Minton: You know, these are their you know, um, you know, locations that they've identified and working with a site host.
• 7:06
  Steve Minton: It's their you know, EVSE or you know, electric vehicle um charging equipment that is, you know, that they're using.
• 7:15
  Steve Minton: So we're not we're not telling them what type of equipment to use.
• 7:18
  Steve Minton: We're not telling them how to design their site.
• 7:19
  Steve Minton: We give them, you know, basically the guidelines around ADA requirements and things like that, um, power requirements, uptime requirements, and then they have to, you know, basically design that site to meet the requirements, and then they install the site.
• 7:34
  Steve Minton: Uh, there's some oversight that we do, some testing and whatnot.
• 7:38
  Steve Minton: But, you know, and then we the payment process is set up such that they don't get full payment until they meet all the term or all the you know conditions of the of the five-year term of operations and maintenance.
• 7:48
  Steve Minton: So every year they'll get like a 4% payment if they meet the 97% uptime requirement.
• 7:53
  Steve Minton: So um, you know, it's a good contract type to ensure that you know they are meeting the requirements through the payment milestone process.
• 8:03
  Jeff Cranson: And you're kind of dealing with a chicken and the egg situation when it comes to electric vehicles, right?
• 8:09
  Jeff Cranson: We know that lots of people say, I want to buy an electric vehicle, but I'm not sure that the charging network exists.
• 8:14
  Jeff Cranson: And then other people will say um the charging network won't come until more people buy EVs.
• 8:20
  Jeff Cranson: So this is what you've been battling since the start.
• 8:24
  Jeff Cranson: You mentioned the change in administrations that created some uncertainty.
• 8:28
  Jeff Cranson: Uh, but initially, when people hear there's going to be that much money on the street, they hear there's a big federal grant, there's a lot of interest, and you have to kind of balance between those that are just very ambitious and are chasing dollars and those that really can get it done, right?
• 8:42
  Jeff Cranson: So talk about how you juggle that.
• 8:46
  Steve Minton: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:46
  Steve Minton: Yeah, another great question.
• 8:48
  Steve Minton: So uh, you know, there's a number of established companies in this space, in this industry.
• 8:54
  Steve Minton: Um, and there's of course ones that are trying to break in.
• 8:56
  Steve Minton: And the whole industry is really fairly new relative to like, you know, our standard road and bridge industry, let's say.
• 9:02
  Steve Minton: And um, so through our you know, evaluation process, you know, we ensure there's like a um some pass-fail requirements that they have to demonstrate that they have you know certified people that can install these things, that they um have a professional engineer that will design the site for the on the civil side.
• 9:23
  Steve Minton: And um and they have to demonstrate experience with installing uh for their installer, let's say they have to have done so many of these installations in order to uh prove to us that you know they are worthy of um being selected.
• 9:35
  Steve Minton: So our selection process, I believe, is pretty rigorous, and so that we can weed out the companies that you know aren't serious or you know, maybe um we wouldn't feel be successful with this program.
• 9:48
  Steve Minton: And so we've you know been very careful about you know how we score the proposals, how we select, you know, what are those requirements we're exact asking for.
• 9:58
  Steve Minton: You know, when we put out the proposal, the proposal itself um is what's called the instructions to proposers, which is what we label the ITP, and then the contract.
• 10:07
  Steve Minton: And we tell them, read the contract, and we we get information, we understand from the their their narratives in their proposal that if they understand what the terms of the contract is, and it's it's lengthy, it's you know, it's a 200 and some pages.
• 10:20
  Steve Minton: So, you know, there's a lot of information there, a lot of things that they have to do in order to get this funding through, you know, through their installation of their site.
• 10:28
  Steve Minton: And so, yeah, we we've been, I think, fairly successful.
• 10:31
  Steve Minton: We we haven't um we've had some you know companies that after selection but before contracting decided, okay, we we can't keep moving forward.
• 10:41
  Steve Minton: I would say the industry, because it's still fairly new, there's a lot of um, I don't want to say uh chaos, but it might be the uh cinema to that, that you know, it's been a little bit difficult.
• 10:52
  Steve Minton: It's not like working with our standard road and bridge contractors, which, you know, they know the contract, they know what to do.
• 10:57
  Steve Minton: You know, we of course we oversee it and all that.
• 10:59
  Steve Minton: But these companies are, you know, some are you know fairly new.
• 11:04
  Steve Minton: Um they don't understand contracting with either the state or federal government.
• 11:08
  Steve Minton: A lot of a big learning curve for a lot of them, like, you know, around, okay, we require a bond, we require insurances.
• 11:15
  Steve Minton: That's been a major hurdle with a lot of these companies.
• 11:17
  Steve Minton: So, you know, learning both ways, we under trying to understand better, you know, their how they're able to meet the contract requirements and then uh for them to try to understand how they how they contract with us and what our needs are in order to get there.
• 11:30
  Steve Minton: So it's it's been um, you know, it's been interesting to kind of to to be in this, you know, kind of different thing that we're doing here at MDOT, but at the same time uh really rewarding once we start seeing those sites in the ground and start seeing um them used by the by the public.
• 11:47
  Jeff Cranson: We'll have more on the other side of this important message.
• 11:50
  MDOT Message: The Michigan Department of Transportation reminds you to slow down, follow all signs, and pay attention when driving through work zones, because all employees deserve a safe place to work.
• 12:01
  MDOT Message: Work zone safety.
• 12:03
  MDOT Message: We're all in this together.
• 12:07
  Jeff Cranson: Well, you mentioned that workforce component, and I think that goes back to that uncertainty again.
• 12:12
  Jeff Cranson: It's like do community colleges invest in a program that's going to be able to train these people so they have the workers out there, and if they have to pause because of a change in administration or other things, then they don't have the workforce.
• 12:24
  Jeff Cranson: So are you hearing more that the that talent is being developed and that uh these companies are able to get the people to do the installations and the maintenance?
• 12:33
  Steve Minton: Yeah, I think the um I'd have to look back, but I know the the state of Michigan had I think a grant for um uh for something for you know to to stand up a program so you know people can get certified in in the um in the installation process uh that EBSE um um certification, if you will.
• 12:52
  Steve Minton: And so I know there's been um um you know a focus on that to try to create the workforce that can do this.
• 12:59
  Steve Minton: I I don't know if we've seen so much um, let's say with with the companies that you know are are subcontracted as the installers, it it seems like they have adequate resources to do that.
• 13:11
  Steve Minton: Uh we haven't heard that you know they're um you know, just don't can't find people to do this.
• 13:16
  Steve Minton: So I I think that's a good sign that you know they're they're they're finding people who are you know wanting to work in that space and um and and do these installations.
• 13:23
  Steve Minton: So of course, you know, as you know, adoption you know continues to happen and more infrastructure you know kind of comes, you know, that demand could continue to grow.
• 13:32
  Steve Minton: So um so we'll see.
• 13:34
  Steve Minton: But yeah, I think I think so far it seems like there's been um, at least you know within Michigan, that there's been an emphasis on trying to create the the workforce there.
• 13:42
  Steve Minton: And that's that's been a good thing.
• 13:44
  Jeff Cranson: Well, in your best case scenario, um, how long will it be until we've you know really built out what we can do with the existing program?
• 13:54
  Steve Minton: Yeah, I think it doesn't move as fast as anybody would like or what we would like.
• 13:58
  Steve Minton: You know, we were constantly trying to think of ways to, and we I was just in a meeting earlier this morning about how can we try to motivate these companies to move faster.
• 14:07
  Steve Minton: Um, you know, there's the contract requirements, but even just getting to the contract that's taken in some cases a very, very long time, way longer than our standard processes, which is like you know, 49 days or something like that.
• 14:19
  Jeff Cranson: You mean because of the back and forth that goes on?
• 14:21
  Steve Minton: Yeah, exactly.
• 14:22
  Steve Minton: Because of the, you know, the the the biggest thing is them getting bonds.
• 14:25
  Steve Minton: Um they have to get a bond.
• 14:27
  Steve Minton: It's not something they you know have normally have done in, you know, in or insurance that meets our requirements.
• 14:32
  Steve Minton: So that's been a big sticking point.
• 14:34
  Steve Minton: We've eased, I would say eased, we've changed our bonding requirements to make it a little bit more palatable.
• 14:40
  Steve Minton: We've met with bonding companies, we've met with um, you know, um, oh uh like a bonding uh um association group for the industry.
• 14:48
  Steve Minton: We've caught through all the ways we could make this happen and you know, changed our requirements to try to reflect what they can actually, you know, do.
• 14:55
  Steve Minton: So we've done a lot of that.
• 14:57
  Steve Minton: So yeah, we're you know always trying to find ways to move this faster.
• 15:00
  Steve Minton: And you know, with the round three selections this year, um, you know, hope to get them under contract by next year, and then they'll have two years to to to construct at that point.
• 15:11
  Steve Minton: So, you know, I would say we'll probably be actively installing these chargers probably into 2030, if you had to ask me right now.
• 15:19
  Steve Minton: So it'll be another three, four years before I think we would say that okay, we've exhausted the you know the the all the selections you know in terms of getting them in the ground and um you know then starts that you know that five-year OM period.
• 15:32
  Jeff Cranson: So I asked you this uh before, I think a couple years ago when we talked about it, uh whether a career engineer uh who you know was doing a lot of different things 25, 30 years ago ever saw himself doing this.
• 15:48
  Jeff Cranson: And uh what do you think about that now in retrospect that you've had more time in the program?
• 15:53
  Steve Minton: Yeah, right.
• 15:54
  Steve Minton: I mean, exactly.
• 15:56
  Steve Minton: You know, 25, well, 30 years ago when we started with the department, it was yeah, I never would envision like we would be talking about, you know, installing, you know, EV chargers.
• 16:06
  Steve Minton: And uh, you know, it's kind of amazing, actually.
• 16:09
  Steve Minton: And you know, and just you know, I guess probably just in in general, all the you know, the technology and you know, just seeing kind of the change from the time, you know, back when we were younger, right?
• 16:19
  Steve Minton: And I was just having this conversation around just even just like personal computers.
• 16:22
  Steve Minton: Like, you know, we that really wasn't a thing when we were younger.
• 16:26
  Steve Minton: And now, you know, we have a device in our hand that's you know a hundred times more powerful than anything that we probably worked with back early on.
• 16:32
  Steve Minton: So um, yeah, just to kind of see advancement in technology.
• 16:35
  Steve Minton: And even in the EV space, just the pace at which things are happening, you know, relative to like battery technology, for example.
• 16:43
  Steve Minton: Um, you know, I read a lot on you know, um solid state batteries and you know, different types of chemicals used for batteries and all that gearing towards faster charging and more range.
• 16:54
  Steve Minton: And there's already things going into production that are you know way better than you know, kind of let's say first generation batteries.
• 17:00
  Steve Minton: So um it's come a long way and we'll continue to.
• 17:03
  Steve Minton: And I think personally, I think there will be you know a tipping point where you know that that concern about range will no longer be there or charging time.
• 17:11
  Steve Minton: Even right now, um, outside of Nevi, just on the kind of let's say um infrastructure that's been that's you know coming even in the last year, you know, there there already is chargers within 50 miles.
• 17:23
  Steve Minton: Like I have an EV.
• 17:25
  Steve Minton: I drove up to Alpina recently where I'm from, and uh I was amazed.
• 17:28
  Steve Minton: I look at uh I've uh used the plug share app, which uh you know shows all the chargers and you know has uh user-based input on there.
• 17:36
  Steve Minton: And you know, there was chargers, fast chargers along M65, along US23, and uh in small towns, like really small towns.
• 17:44
  Steve Minton: I was really surprised by that, to be honest.
• 17:46
  Steve Minton: Um, you know, and maybe I should not be just knowing, you know, working in the space a little bit, but you know, we've got you know, there's some fast chargers in Alpina with one of the companies that actually we're working with, GPM.
• 17:56
  Steve Minton: And uh so I that's where I charged my vehicle and uh had no problem doing it.
• 17:59
  Steve Minton: And it wasn't it's not a Nebi charger, and we hope to have more Nebby chargers in northeast Michigan too.
• 18:04
  Steve Minton: But um, but yeah, it was uh I was pleasantly surprised about the availability charging in in rural areas right now.
• 18:10
  Steve Minton: So Nebby will help that even more.
• 18:12
  Steve Minton: Um but yeah, that that infrastructure is is is you know is I think is is there now.
• 18:17
  Steve Minton: So if somebody wanted to make a trip, I don't think they should be able to um worry too much about finding a place to charge.
• 18:23
  Jeff Cranson: Well, that's supported by um Joanne Muller, who is the Axios mobility reporter, and she's written a lot about this.
• 18:30
  Jeff Cranson: I consider her, you know, kind of one of the experts on the topic.
• 18:33
  Jeff Cranson: And and she says the same thing that it may not be happening as quickly as everybody hoped.
• 18:38
  Jeff Cranson: There's a lot of uh, you know, one step forward, two steps back, but it is getting there.
• 18:43
  Jeff Cranson: And a lot of people have decided to to go for hybrids in between, as an in-between step, so that they can then maybe transition to a full EV when they feel more comfortable with the charging status.
• 18:55
  Jeff Cranson: What do you hear anecdotally when you talk to friends or family about what you do?
• 18:59
  Jeff Cranson: Because this is still a topic that divides people.
• 19:02
  Jeff Cranson: There's a lot of misunderstanding about it out there.
• 19:05
  Jeff Cranson: And do you feel like you have to advocate for it, or do you just you try to give just the facts and stick to that?
• 19:12
  Steve Minton: You know, I probably try to just stick to the facts.
• 19:15
  Steve Minton: And I know there's folks that you know are like, well, you know, I'll never you know get an EV, but I'm actually, you know, again, kind of maybe pleasantly surprised how maybe open some people are.
• 19:25
  Steve Minton: And you know, when I did be up to Alpina, of course, you know, my older family members that we were meeting with for the 4th of July or having a luncheon with, I was talking all about, you know, EVs and availability charging and the ease of use and all that.
• 19:38
  Steve Minton: And you know, they were they were they wanted to know more and you know, kind of told them, you know, what how my experience has been as an EV owner and you know just the benefits of that.
• 19:47
  Steve Minton: And of course, you know, some challenges too.
• 19:49
  Steve Minton: Like you do have to do a little planning if you are going to take a longer trip and you know look ahead.
• 19:53
  Steve Minton: And um, but you know, with again with the infrastructure that's there, it's it's not that hard.
• 19:57
  Steve Minton: And so yeah, I don't know if I had any converts there, but um, but yeah, I I've you know, I know when I read about things um in the news and um different uh sources of information, like you know, different like surveys have shown that like I think more than 90% of EV owners would get another EV.
• 20:16
  Steve Minton: And to me, that's saying, okay, they they see this as something that you know makes sense for them.
• 20:20
  Steve Minton: And I I totally would too.
• 20:21
  Steve Minton: And and the folks that I know that um that have EVs are you know say the same thing.
• 20:26
  Steve Minton: So, you know, they um don't you know necessarily see any you know challenges.
• 20:31
  Steve Minton: There's a lot of benefits to it, and um, and and the infrastructure is just you know becoming more and more to to make things a bit easier.
• 20:36
  Steve Minton: But really, like for us, you know, my home, 98% of our trips are you know within so many miles that we just charge at home.
• 20:44
  Steve Minton: So it's really not really a concern other than when we do take a longer one, and that's you know, every once in a while, but you know, that like I said, the infrastructure is getting there.
• 20:52
  Steve Minton: NEVI's gonna support that um as we continue to stand up the program and get more chargers in the ground, and it'll just be even more.
• 20:58
  Steve Minton: So I think, yeah, I think we're definitely in a different place than we were even two years ago.
• 21:03
  Steve Minton: So I think, you know, hopefully folks can, you know, again, it's a choice, you know.
• 21:07
  Steve Minton: I'm not advocating that they do one thing or the other, but I think there's a lot of benefit to EVs and just in terms of um, you know, maintenance and and other things, just it's you know, just easy.
• 21:17
  Jeff Cranson: Well, that goes to a related topic, as you know, we're in the midst of a road user charge uh pilot study.
• 21:24
  Jeff Cranson: Um, and that's largely because of people switching to alternative fuel vehicles and the diminishing returns of the fuel tax.
• 21:31
  Jeff Cranson: So I guess I'll ask you the next time you convene that family focused group in Alpena, see what they think about road user charges too.
• 21:37
  Steve Minton: Right.
• 21:38
  Steve Minton: Yeah.
• 21:38
  Steve Minton: I um talk to them a lot about, you know, in my previous roles in the department, one of my previous roles is system manager dealing with the funding and making decisions on you know fixes and how there was how there is never enough funding, right?
• 21:50
  Steve Minton: So yeah, I I'm always uh you know advocating about the need for more road funding in general and um and just how we lag behind some of the other states in the Midwest and um that you know to to really you know if we want to do the right fix at the right time, we need um you know more funding to do that.
• 22:09
  Steve Minton: So um yeah, certainly.
• 22:11
  Steve Minton: Yeah.
• 22:15
  Jeff Cranson: Well, Steve, I appreciate it.
• 22:16
  Jeff Cranson: I uh appreciate everything you and your team have done with this and that you're uh kind of staying on it even in a more expansive role that you have now with a lot going on, and maybe the next time we talk, we can talk more about the major projects office and the things that you guys have in the works too.
• 22:30
  Steve Minton: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:31
  Steve Minton: Um thanks for uh the opportunity to give an update on NEVI and how we're uh proceeding with the program still, and we'll keep uh keep moving and trying to make it move a little bit faster.
• 22:40
  Steve Minton: Great.
• 22:40
  Steve Minton: Sounds great.
• 22:41
  Jeff Cranson: I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Misting Transportation.
• 22:45
  Jeff Cranson: You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout.
• 22:49
  Jeff Cranson: I also want to acknowledge the talented people who helped make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, and Jacke Salinas who posts the podcast to various platforms and transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.