Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Killers Amongst Us: Real Life "Hell's Kitchen," Gorgeous Restauranteur Disappears. What happened to Dawn? (part 2)

Transcript

Killers Amongst Us: Real Life "Hell's Kitchen," Gorgeous Restauranteur Disappears. What happened to Dawn? (part 2) · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, welcome back to Killers amongst Us,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. She's young, she's beautiful,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: she's an expert in the restaurant, in business. She's got
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: that magnetic personality, charismatic that everybody wants to be around
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the center of attention with little effort on her part.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: But why would she leave a brand new restaurant she
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: and her husband have really just started. I'm Nancy Grace.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: This is Killers amongst Us. They fight among themselves, well,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: they're married and they worked together. She would just get
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: fed up in bold employees. See, yeah, they fought, They biggered,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: sometimes in front of the customers. But nothing to write
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: home about. On the suggestion that Dawn disappears after an argument,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: leaving with nothing but her Louis Vuitton bag, a mystery
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: text listen. Finally, a friend named Monica comes to police
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: with a real clue. Hi, what can we do for you?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: My husband and I have been friends with David and
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Don since they got here, were regulars at the restaurant. Anyway,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I know that she's disappeared, but I actually just got
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: a test from her. What does it say? It says
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I'm okay, I'm in Florida. I'm starting over. Pixie. Pixie,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: which is the nickname that David gave Dawn. That text
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: message and of itself would explain where Don was and
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: it should relieve the worry from her friends. You're hearing
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: our friends at Perfect Murder, so starting over, joining me
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: an all star panel. Larry Altman, crime reporter Daily Breeze
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: at the time, now freelance journalists. He knows everything about
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: her disappearance from beginning to end. Joseph's got More, Professor Forensics,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author Blood Beneath My Feet, now the
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: star of Poisonous Liaisons on True Crime Network. Chris Buyer's
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: former chief of Police, John's Creek, twenty five years as
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: a police officer, now p I am polygrapher at Chris
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Buyer's investigations in polygraph dot com. Renowned psychologists joining me.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie Joffe Ellis, Adjunct Professor, Columbia University at Debbie
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Joffe Ellis dot com. Veteran trial lawyer Daryl Cohen, former
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: prosecutor joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, and special
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: guests joining me. Dawn's brother joining me out of Burlington, Vermont,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Derek Pappin, Dawn's brother from Bradendon, Florida, David and her
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: sister Dana joining me from Guardinia, California. To you, Dana,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: do you remember that moment when you first heard that
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Dawn had disappeared, that she took off on her own
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: to so called start over? Oh? I do very clearly.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Tell me. I got a phone call at work from
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Karen Patterson, a close friend of Don's, and I met
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: up with her and her husbands and found out the
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: information from them. And it was a Sunday night, late
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: on a Sunday night, and I immediately went to the
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: LaMDA shaff station to finally missing person's report because I
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: just knew that something was wrong. Now, that's interesting when
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: you learned this from a friend of your sisters, you
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: went immediately to the sheriff's office. Why what made you
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: feel that she had something to fairies had happened? Would
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: call it a gut feeling. But also because of the timeline,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: they didn't reach out right away, so it had been
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: almost three weeks since anybody had seen her, and that
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: just was something that she wouldn't do. You know, she
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: would have been in touch with one of my brothers,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: or my father or even our grandmother at the time,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: and none of that had happened. And my instinct told
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: me that something was wrong and that I needed to
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: fill or police report immediately. You know, to you, Daryl Cohen,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: former prosecutor, now defense attorney, Daryl Cohen, take off your
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: defense attorney had just one moment. How many times has
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: a case been launched when someone had a quote gut feeling, Nancy.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I remember as a prosecutor, I used to tell the jury,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: listen to the judge's charges about about the law, listen
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: to the testimony of the witnesses. But whenever you fail
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: to listen, to listen to your gut. If it feels
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: wrong in your gut, go do it. It feels right
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: through it. So to answer your question, when your gut
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: is the you go for it and you do what
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: needs to be done, regardless of what the facts appear
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: to be or not to be. Well, you know the
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: law for many, many years, and I've told us to
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: a jury hundreds of times. You must reach your verdict
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: to a moral and reasonable certainty, reasonable head, moral heart.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: You have to follow your heart. Let me remind you
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: of a case, Daryl Cohen, I'm sure you don't need
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of prodding. You remember this Julie Love
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: murder case and this gorgeous pre K movement and dance
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: teacher goes missing on a jog. Well, first of all,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: did she just disappear? Did she take off on her own?
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: And everyone suspected the boyfriend and I went to mister
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Slate in our boss and why aren't we and diary
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the boyfriend He's like, ah, let's just wait, let's just wait.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Sure enough, over a year past and some of her
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: remains are found out by a dumpster and it ended
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: up being totally unrelated to the boyfriend. He had a
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: gut feeling. He had a gut feeling. Remember that, darryl
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Oh I remember it well. And Lewis, though he didn't
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: try cases, he knew what the case was. He knew
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: the value of cases, and he knew when to jump
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: and when to sit back and wait and watch. And
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: at this instant he waited watched it worked. Sadly. You know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: that's a hard thing to learn to, you know, like
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Kenny Roger says, no when to hold him and no
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: when to fold him. There are times in cases when
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: you have to move, and there are times in investigations
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: where you have to lay back and wait. And Dana,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Dawn's sister, is saying that night she knew she had
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: to go to law enforcement. David Dawn's brother, do you
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: recall when you first learn your sister Dawn had disappeared?
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: So I do remember. So our mother pass away June
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: seventeenth that year when Dawn went missing, so July, August,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: September seventeenth. She called me each of those days for
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: those months, and then it was October seventeenth, I didn't
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: hear from her. So I want to say, within the
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: next couple of days, I reached out and I was
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: getting no, no, no response at all. And that's right
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: around the time when Dana, you know, called me and
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: said you know and told me the story. But yeah,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: she was calling me every month on the seventeenth of
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: my mom's death anniversary and you know, just just checking in.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: And when she didn't check in, I knew something was happening.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: You know. It's interesting. My sister and I are very
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: very close, but she lives all the way on the
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: other side of the country, and she is a brainy act.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: She runs a department at a university, and she has
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: been taking care of her husband since I can remember
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: he went to heaven. I mean, her whole life has
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: been devotion, and it's really hard for us to find
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: a time with a time difference to talk. But we're
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: in touch all the time, and the connection, the strong
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: connection of growing up together is still there. And if
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: I go X number of days without hearing from my sister,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I get very anxious, just like you're saying. When she
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: didn't call him the seventeenth, you noticed, hey Don didn't
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: call joining me now Derek, Don's other brother joining me
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: out of Burlington. Derek, do you remember when you realize
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: or when you were first told hey Don's missing to call?
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: What David said? It was basically the same thing we
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: talked after momus the way I had a son on
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: July seventeenth, and we talked every time, And it was
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: probably right around that same time, the first week of
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: October when we had chatted and she forgot what I
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: had named my son, and I named him Cooper Brink
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: and my mother's maiden name was Brink. And then it
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: was you know, she just started crying to you that
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I can't talk to you right now, and that was
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: the last time I talked to us, probably the first
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: week of October. You know what's interesting, Daryl Coleen, former
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: prosecutor now defense attorney, actually renowned defense attorney, Daryl. I
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: always find it very fishy when someone can't remember the
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: last time they spoke to someone that then goes missing,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: because I remember, like it was yesterday, the last time
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I saw my fiance before he was murdered. I remember
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: like it was yesterday. He had come to visit me
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: and at my parents' home in may Ken when I
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: was in college. He had to get up at like
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: four o'clock to drive to his construction job near Athens,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: and I waved at the car as he drove away,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and he slung his left arm up and waved at
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: me as the car disappeared. I'll never forget that moment.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: And you're hearing the Papen siblings, Dana, David, and Derek
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: describing that moment. You know, Darrel, and I will come
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: on to a suspect that can't remember what happened. That's
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: just a big giveaway to me, well, not to me now,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: of course, to the siblings, to you that was an
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: impactful moment because of what happened directly afterwards. If my
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: friend goes off to work and it's the same thing
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: my friend does every day, or we leave the office
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: every day, then I don't necessarily remember because my short
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: term memory doesn't consider that important. But what is important
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: if you reach out and you don't reach that friend
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: and suddenly that friend is gone, So then your short
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: term memory flips back, So it doesn't bother me that
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: someone wouldn't. Well, you've been in the defense business away
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: too long, Okay, you need to go take a vacation
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: and get back in touch with yourself. To Larry Altman
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: joining me, crime reporter, Daily Breeze at the time now
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: freelance a journalists. He knows the case backwards and forwards,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: you know, Larry, right there when we hear the friends state,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: she gets a text and Dawn signs at Pixie, which
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: was a nickname given to her by her husband, and
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of people called her Pixie. Why didn't they
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: try it? Why didn't costs triangulate it right then and there?
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, they didn't seem to be
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: too concerned at the beginning. I mean that text was
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: miss spelled. The text from Dawn's friend made no mention.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: The text two Dahnston made no mention of the fact
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: that the friend had just been diagnosed with cancer. I
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: don't think at the beginning anyone really took this seriously.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: You know, I think you're right and another thing ended
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: police defense to Chris Buyer's former police chief, John's Creek.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know that at that time when Dawn first
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: went missing, that the technology was readily available to triangulate
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: down to like a couple of blocks, was it. No,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: probably not. Back when this first started. I remember having
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: a murder chase when I was in Clayton, Kennedy Police
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Department when cell phones were first just getting big, and
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: the first time I ever triangulated one, you know, we
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: got it to within like a five mile radius. We
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: knew it was in somewhere in Cobb County, Georgia. But yeah,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: the technology is definitely changed as it's evolved. But yes,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: back when it first came out, it was not extremely specific.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's that's I'm smiling because I bet
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: at the time you were like, whoa, we can we
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: can identify a five mile radius of where the cell
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: phone was and now we would just laugh at that now.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: But then, and I can remember the first time I
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: did a DNA case, and in my youth, and you know,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: nobody knew what we were doing. I insisted the scientists,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: you're gonna love this, Chief Buyers, I insisted, and you too,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Let's lot this. I insisted. The scientists from
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: the GBI crime Lab bring all of the microscopic photos
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: of the DNA comparison. I'm like, yes, we're gonna show
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: it all to the jury so they can understand what
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: deoxyribony clay acid really is. Well, when they pull them up,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: they look like to me at a distance, as I
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: was doing direct I said, and please show the jury
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: your slides. They had long rules of film. It looked
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: like film that really hadn't developed correctly. It was just
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: like a bunch of blobs in black and white. I'm like, okay,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: you can put that down right now. Because that I
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: knew the jury would think, just like me, how the
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: hey can you look at that? I figure anything out
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, get rid of that. And of course,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: luckily for me, the defense was also equally annoledgeable about DNAs,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: So they didn't say, hey, hey, hey, ho hold on,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: bring that back out. Let's just see how crazy this
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: whole DNA thing is. So luckily I got out of
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: that through the skin of my teeth. But new technology
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: presents issues. If that technology, which is really only advancing
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, wouldn't you agree? And the last couple of
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: years we've really advanced triangulation technology. I mean it was
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: around but as chief buyer said, a five mile radius.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: That really didn't help me too much. No, it doesn't
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: pinpoint anything necessarily, Nancy back then, of course, it gave
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: us kind of just owd stroke that we could look
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: at and it was better than what we had at
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: that point in tom And it's just like DNA technology,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: you know. And this is this is the key here though,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: it's how this technology is actually applied even to this day.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: You're referring to the DNA slides. It is like watching
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: paint dry. I think back to, you know, the testimony
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: that was offered even in the O. J. Simpson case.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: He put those people to sleep, and yeah, all the
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: bells and whistles are really anything that kept me awake
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: during that was looking at Simpson and Cochrane and Cordons.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: It was just like gritting my teeth. I remember that
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: you are so right, Joe Scott Morgan, Hey Jackie. So
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: we get down to police work what we just heard
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: from the friend Monica and about that text we're talking about. Finally,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: a friend named Monica comes to police with the real clue.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: What can we do here? My husband and I have
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: been friends with Tevid and Don sincey got here. We're
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: regulars at the restaurant. Anyway, I know that she's disappeared,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: but I actually just got a test from her. What
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: does it say? It says, I'm okay, I'm in Florida,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I'm starting over. Pixie. Can I see Pixie? Which is
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: the nickname that David gave Dawn. That text message and
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: of itself would explain where Don was and it should
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: relieve the worry from her friends. But now take a
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: listen to our friends. Investigators speaking to other of Dawn's
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: co workers and acquaintances. Listening as the investigation continues, cops
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: talk to Don's friends, or she unhappy lately or depressed
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: more exhausted. It's a tough business. Did she ever mentioned
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: like want to leave or leaving all the time, so
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: you feel it's unusual disappealing. Yeah, unusual but understandable. Where
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: do you think she might be? I'm hoping a ski lodger.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: The boy zoy friends basically back up what David says.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: They're really sure that she took off on her own,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: that she's somewhere with a margarita on hand and enjoying herself,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: and she'll come back when she's ready. If Dawn really
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: has taken a trip somewhere, then police should be able
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: to track her. They run her credit card, see there's
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: any credit card history. Investigators also check US customs to
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: see if maybe Don had taken a flight out of town.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: There was no sign of Don anymore. Wow, okay, right there.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: That was good police for Larry Altman. Larry on the
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: case from the very beginning, checking to see if she
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: had taken a fly a, checking to see if she
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: had gone down to one of the islands, checking her banking,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: her credit card history. But so far nothing. So the
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: cops are on the right track. Wouldn't you agree, Larry?
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: You know I don't agree. Actually, I would check in
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: regularly with the police and they would just tell me
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: there was no signs of foul play, and her name
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: was in the system, and you know, they were waiting
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: for her to just turn up somewhere. But I never
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: really got the impression early on that they were really
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: digging into it. I think that came later on. I
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: just never felt at the beginning that they were they
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: were really all that active. Yeah, that's a really interesting point,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Jess got Morgan. I agree and disagree with Larry. I
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: disagree in the sense that they're looking at her credit cards,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: they're looking at banking activity, they're looking to see if
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: she left the jurisdiction, or is any of her potential
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: old haunts. So they're looking. They're speaking to friends, they're
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: speaking to the husband, they're speaking to co workers, and
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: that's what they should be doing. So I disagree with
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Larry Altman on that, but I agree with him that
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know how seriously they were taking it. Yeah,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know either, Nancy. And you know, when you're
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: talking about adults that just kind of vanish off to
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: face the earth, the standard line that you will get
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: from police is, well, they're an adult, they have you know,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: they can do whatever they want to do. Listen, even
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: at the medical Examiner's office. Nancy. We used to get
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: calls from people that would say, I'm missing my husband
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: or I'm missing my wife. I'm just calling the morgue
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: to check it there there, And you know, you get
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: so many of those calls after a period of time,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: it kind of wears you down. And you're working on
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: other cases at that moment in time, stuff that you
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: have solid information on. So it's a very confusing position
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: to put investigators in. You want to go to doctor
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Debbie Joffe Ellis, but first to the Pappen siblings, Derek,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: David and Dana here too. You Dana, did it sound
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: like something done? Would dude just go off to one
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: of the eye lions and sit back and have a margharita? No?
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Why do you say that, because regardless of
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: anything that they were attached together, they did everything together.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: She had never done it before. It didn't make any
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: sense at all. And if she was going to run away,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: she was going to run away with him, you know,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: it didn't make that. You know, that's an interesting point.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: And you're talking about the husband, David, what about you?
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: David pappend was Dawn the quote free spirited one in
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: the family, the one that would just leave and go
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: on a vacation without telling anybody and get it out
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: of her system and come back home. Or she the
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: responsible one I mean growing up? What was her character Don?
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Growing up? I would say that Don was a free spirit.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I would say that. But once she met David, like
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Dana said, they were made. There wasn't one without the other.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: And very many circumstances, Um, yeah, he had. They were
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: they were together at the time, and it sounds like
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: they were really dedicated to making this restaurant work and
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Derek Papp and the restaurant was working. It was very popular. Yeah,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: and it absolutely was the uh they were. The teamwork
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: that they had together was outstanding and absolutely it was
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: a great couple. And like David said, they were always together.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: He would do the bad times, do the good times
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: you anytime. They always seemed to work things out. Um,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: if there were bad times and the good times. Don
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: would never go to an island unless he was with
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: her too. Doctor Debbi Joffey Ellis Psychologist, Agent Professor, Columbia University,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie And also, for instance, I might get really
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: mad at my husband about one thing or the other,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: and maybe there was a time I would have driven
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: off and a half, But now I have the children,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and there's no way in HWL and you can all
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: write this down that I would ever, ever, ever leave
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: them or do anything to jeopardize being with them. I
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: believe that is the way Dawn and David felt about
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: that restaurant that was their baby. Well, that's likely, but
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: we can't know one hundred percent for sure unless we're
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: in their heads. And Nancy, you have a moral compass,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: You're a dedicated mother with a good brain. We don't
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: know how they And now, in no way my criticizing
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Dawn or questioning her sanity, I'm not, But just make
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: a couple of general statements, if I may. Now, when
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: a person is doing something that's life enhancing, such as
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: regularly checking in with a sister, with loved ones, with friends,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: and that stops, that's what I think should raise alarm bells.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, people can change, People can act
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: in uncharacteristic ways. So the fact that Dawn stopped her
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: regular phone calls to me is more alarming than a
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: possibility of her choosing one day, as a previously free spirit,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: to do something dramatically different, interesting, interesting, and you know
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Chris Buyers, former police chief of John's Creek. I always
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I agree with Larry Altman on this at this point.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: So many times I see it with teen quote runaways. No,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: they've either been kidnapped their dad, or they've been sex traffic.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: That's what's happening when teens and women go missing. With teens,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: they say, oh, that's a runaway, they'll come back. With women,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: they go, oh, you know what, she's just gone off
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: with a boyfriend. She's just quote taking break. Why do
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: cops always say that what the hate is wrong? Yeah?
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I think it's just, you know, there's that mindset of
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: going into things and trying to make less of it
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: than it actually could be, which is one of the
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: things when I was a supervisor over investigators, I was
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: always very hard on we look to the worst possible
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: case scenario and then we work our way back. And
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: that's what you have to do in these cases so
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: that you don't miss you know, we've talked in the
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: past about those precious early moments where there's evidence out
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: there that can be lost. So you really have to
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: come into these situations and look at the worst case
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: scenario and then work your way back to it's just
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: a runaway. She's run off with a boyfriend or something.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: But yes, you're exactly right. All too often that happens
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: in the mind of investigators early on on these cases.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Dave Matt crime online
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: dot Com. The investigation into Don Viene's disappearance began weeks
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: after she was last seen. Her sister, Dana Pappen, and
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: friends went to the police on the number eighteenth, two
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: thousand and nine to report her missing. Police talk to
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Don's husband, David Vienn's. He tells detectives that on October eighteenth,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: he argued with his wife about her excessive drinking. He
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: said that earlier in the day they'd gone to eat
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: at California Pizza Kitchen, and that he dropped her off
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: at home and returned to work. When he got home
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: from work that night, Vienns tells police that Don wasn't home,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: says he takes an ambient goes to bed. He also
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: says Don wasn't home the next day, and Viens tells
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: police that he texted and called her a number of times.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Police ask why he didn't contact police. Vienne says that
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: maybe a week or two after he got a text
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: message from her saying she was okay and then she
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: was with a friend. Vienn says that he talked to
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Don on the phone and that she came home on
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: October twenty fifth, begging him to leave Lomita and run
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: away to the mountains. David Vienn's claims that he told
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: her to check in a rehab and the next day
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: she was gone. The investigation into Don Vienne's disappearance began
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: we excepter she was last seen. Her sister, Dana Pappen,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: and friends went to the police on November eighteenth, two
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: thousand and nine, to report her missing. Police talked to
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Don's husband, David Vienns. He tells detectives that on October eighteenth,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: he argued with his wife about her excessive drinking. He
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: said that earlier in the day they'd gone to eat
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: at California Pizza Kitchen, and that he dropped her off
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: at home and returned to work. When he got home
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: from work that night, Vienns tells police that Don wasn't home,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: says he takes an ambient goes to bed. He also
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: says Don wasn't home the next day and Viens tells
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: police that he texted and called her a number of times.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Police ask why he didn't contact police. Vienne says that
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: maybe a week or two after he got a text
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: message from her saying she was okay, and then she
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: was with a friend. Vienn says that he talked to
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Don on the phone and that she came home on
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: October twenty fifth, begging him to leave Lomita and run
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: away to the mountains. David Vienn's claims that he told
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: her to check in a rehab and the next day
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: she was gone, Wow too, Dana. David and Derek Pappen
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: question to you, Dana, do you believe cops did not
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: take it seriously? No, I believe they took it seriously.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: But when I when you don't know a person, you
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: don't know their habits, you can only go on the
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: evidence you're given, and coming from her husband, the person
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: not supposed to know her best, and he's saying, well,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: I just talked to her and she's mad and we
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: had a fight, and then, you know, I don't blame
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: them for for not taking it more seriously because they
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: didn't have any evidence to prove that anything was wrong.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: What about a data happened. I don't. I don't think
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: they did anything wrong. And around that time I actually
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: called him. I actually called David and I had an
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: hour long conversation and he assured me you kept calling
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: me or other you know, I would never I would
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: never do anything. You know, she just left, you know,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: you know, you know me better than anyone, you know,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Dada da da da. And without any evidence, like Dana said,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: there was really no no reason to think something something
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: had happened. She just laughed, which I told her to
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: do a hundred times. Oh really, Derek Pappen, did do
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: you believe the cops were taking it seriously that she
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: had disappeared? Did you buy into she just took off? No,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: I definitely didn't buy into this. She just just took
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: off and all that stuff. And and I think, you know,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: like Larry said, I think it. You know that they didn't.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I think it was a big deal at first, and
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, and then you know that's yeah, I
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: thought there was something wrong from the start, just like
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Dana said. You know, to you, Larry Altman, you're the
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: only one. Although Dana goes to the cops and says
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: she's missing, something's wrong, you're the one that says they're
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: not taking this seriously enough. Why did you feel that?
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: I just felt at the time that they took a
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: report and put Don's name in the system, and we're
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: just waiting to see what happened. I mean, there were
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: some key things that we all knew, you know, from
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: the start. We knew that that Don's car was still
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: in the driveway. So if if she had just taken off,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: like David said, why wouldn't she David car? This is
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: southern California. You can't you do anything without driving. And
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: she also left behind a sizeable amount of money that
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: she had been saving. If she had just left on
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: her own, why wouldn't she have gone and collected that money?
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: It was about six hundred forty dollars. Well, now that
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: you're telling me that you've completely turned me around, these
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: are facts that are very very critical. She left behind
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: her car, I mean, for Pete's sake, when is you
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: gonna hit ship when she's got a car? And also
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: the nature of the money. She had asked a friend
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: to hold the money in case of an emergency. Why
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: not put it to the bank. Why did she feel
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: she had to? I mean I'm not gonna go hide
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: a little bit of money. I've gotten a glass jar
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: in the backyard for Pete's sake, and now I don't
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: want to knock that. My great grandmother did it and
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: ended up paying off a farm my you know, fifty
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: jars buried in the backyardful of nothing but nickels and
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: dollars in cash. So it does happen. But why did
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: she feel she needed any emergency plan? Why did she
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: disappear without her car? Guys, take a listen to this.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: We had to look at all the facts. We looked
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: into Florida. We learned that she'd had a family members.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Her father was in Florida a substantial time of the year.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Nobody had heard anything from Donna. If they know where
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: don is, they're not saying anything. Months begin to pass
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: and with no sign of Dawn, cops start to fear
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: the worst. It became apparent to us that this was
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: just more than a missing person. Now that months have passed,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: everyone is getting more serious about Dawn's disappearance. Why did
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: it take months? Why are police now sitting on their thumbs?
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Take a listener our friend Richard's lessenger. Some friends alerted
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Dawn's sister, who filed a missing person's report that caught
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: the eye of Larry Altman. His first story about Dawn's
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: disappearance ran on Christmas Eve two thousand and nine, two
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: months after Dawn vanished, and it got an immediate response.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: I received a phone call from one of Don's friends
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: who had seen that story. She said, Hey, I read
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: your story. There's more to this than you know. Wow. Well,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: the first article was just a basic missing person's story,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: but what I initially had heard about Don's disappearance. I
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: placed to call to David to ask questions, you know,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: what's what's going on with this? And I never got
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: a response, and a lot of time passed, and you know,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: after several weeks, I thought, oh, I've never heard from him.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Why would he not call me back? And so I
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: tried again, and I got a return phone call, this
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: time from an attorney. And this attorney said, he's not
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: going to talk to you, he's not going to do
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: any interviews, but he is cooperating with the police. And
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: I said, what are you talking about. He's cooperating with
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: the police, and I'm I'm why wouldn't he be cooperating
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: with the police, And I'm sure Nanswy you know that
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: is a phrase that is is used when there's some
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: sort of suspicion. You know what, You're absolutely right, Larry
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Alman on the case in the very beginning. And then
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: after you right or article, somebody else hears about it,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: and the case blows up. Listen, how did all this start?
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: And why now this case late dormant until we reported
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: on it, and then suddenly cops a point a brand
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: new investigative team and start reinvestigating the case. And now
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: suddenly they've dug out the bottom of the husband's restaurant. Right,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Nancy Well on October eighteenth, two thousand and nine, is
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: the last time anybody saw don Vin's. Her husband said
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: that he actually fired her. They gotten an argument. Whoa, yeah,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: the husband fires his wife from the family restaurant. Okay,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: go ahead, right right. Her friends claimed that he fired
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: her that day. He says she just walked away, took
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: a Louis Vatton bag with her. That was the last
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: time he saw her. Wow, So all this the case
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: blows up after Larry Altman publishes that first article. You
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: know what that I recall the first time I learned
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Larry Altman that he says he the husband says he
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: fired her. How do you fire your wife? Well, exactly.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: And what else was interesting was that Don was replaced
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: in the restaurant straight out to Dana, David and Derek Pappen. Dana,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: did you know the husband had quote fired at Dawn? No?
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I didn't. That's a surprise. Good luck David if you
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: try to fire me. David Pappen, did you know that
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Dawn had been basically been quote fired from her own restaurant?
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: How do you do that? Oh? I did not know that,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: But funny enough. In two thousand and four, I was
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: working for David and Don, and my dad's sister passed away.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: So Don and I were in Florida and she said
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: one of us needs to go. I'll go, and I said, okay,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: I'll stay in man the restaurant. Well, David stepped in
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: and told Don she was not allowed to go. So
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I jumped in my car and I started towards the
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: airport because I was gonna go. Don was going to
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: cover the restaurant. I got about halfway to the Tampa airport,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: David called me and said, don't bother coming back. You
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: don't have a job, you're not loyal, blah blah blah.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: And he fired me on the spot and I was
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: driving or I was going to Vermont to bury my
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: dad's sister. So I do believe he fired her because
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: he did it to me. So he does have a history.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I'm firing people, but I mean, I'm telling you. I mean,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: you know, guys, how much I love David. But if
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: he tried to order me around or fire me from
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: whatever I'm doing, he would, you know, you put put
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: out an arm and pull back a nub. That's what
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I've got to say to that. Derrek, did you have
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: any idea that your brother in law fired don't. I mean,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: it's her restaurant too. How can you fire somebody, I'd say, oh,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: hub l, no, I'm firing you. Take the pat turner,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: pat in the street and turn a corner. Absolutely. Na. Yeah,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: I know. It's it's weird to hear that and all that,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: especially since she was a primary owner. She couldn't give
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: the licenses and stuff without hers to fire her, it
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: would just be silly, guys, take a listen to a
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: little bit more. I followed the trail that Larry Oltman
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: sniffed out first, take a listen, Debra. The recent information
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: that we got over this past weekend is that after
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: our show Friday Night, cops have now gone out and
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: started re interviewing people, interviewing friends. We also learned about
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: the possessions being thrown in a dumpster, the jeep being
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: towed away almost immediately after she goes missing. About a
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: week and a half later, Nancy, after she disappeared, a
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: friend of hers saw her husband's daughter and his new
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: girlfriend taking her stuff. They were in a car. They
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: drove to the restaurant, took stuff out of the car,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: and started throwing things into the dumpster allegedly. You know,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: there was a few things they decided to keep, but
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: most of the things were just thrown away. Okay, so
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: you're telling me that they basically went shopping and the
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: missing woman's closet. They kept some of her belongings for themselves.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I have no idea if it was for themselves, but
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: they certainly did keep some things. I think I recognize
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: that voice. That's me talking to Deborah Mark Larry Altman.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: You're right, killers amongst us. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,