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Vanished: The Jami Sue Hagel Sherer Case (Part 1) · PNW Haunts & Homicides

0:02
Speaker 1: A previous romantic partner had recalled a frightening incident. Resolved
0:08
Speaker 1: to escape the highly explosive relationship, she had abandoned her
0:12
Speaker 1: things in their shared apartment, only returning when it could
0:16
Speaker 1: be confirmed that Steve wouldn't be home. She returned to
0:21
Speaker 1: try to collect her things, to find that he'd laid
0:24
Speaker 1: out her stuffed animals and dolls decapitated. Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi,
0:41
Speaker 1: creepy people. Hello. Hello, This is PNW Hans and Homicides,
0:48
Speaker 1: where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all
0:53
Speaker 1: things spooky in the PNW. If you're nicety, which is
0:59
Speaker 1: the Pacific north West, if you didn't know what that meant,
1:04
Speaker 1: I don't want. I think it means like penis not well,
1:10
Speaker 1: peanut butter, no waffles, Like we don't want them to
1:14
Speaker 1: think those things about us. So that's right. Yeah, I
1:19
Speaker 1: definitely don't want either of those associations. Oh my goodness.
1:24
Speaker 1: We also do a little tarot reading at the end
1:27
Speaker 1: of every episode for a little bit of deeper insight
1:31
Speaker 1: into our.
1:31
Speaker 2: Topic, especially for our palate cleanser at the end of
1:35
Speaker 2: Caitlin's episodes, which today, Yeah, that is what's going on
1:40
Speaker 2: that's what's happening.
1:41
Speaker 1: You're like, that's that's what's gonna happen. We're doing that
1:44
Speaker 1: to your ear holes.
1:46
Speaker 3: So that's what's happening to us today.
1:48
Speaker 1: Sorry, I guess, Oh my goodness. Yeah, all right, Well,
1:55
Speaker 1: and I think I'm gonna be giving you guys. I
1:58
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe a little bit of a surprise. I
2:01
Speaker 1: don't know if anybody's paying attention, maybe they already know.
2:05
Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, should I get into it? I
2:07
Speaker 1: feel like that's a lot of tom foolery for the
2:10
Speaker 1: front end.
2:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's get into it. I'm ready.
2:13
Speaker 1: Or were you talking about the teaser post on Instagram? Yeah?
2:17
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't know what's happening, but I
2:19
Speaker 3: did the post.
2:22
Speaker 1: All right. Jamie Sue Heigel Scherer, twenty six at the
2:28
Speaker 1: time of her disappearance, lived in Redmond with her husband
2:32
Speaker 1: Steve Schuer. That Sunday afternoon in September of nineteen ninety,
2:38
Speaker 1: Jamie's mother, Judy was looking after the couple's young son. Normally,
2:43
Speaker 1: Steve would repeatedly call to check in anytime Jamie had
2:47
Speaker 1: visited her parents' home, calling to ensure her safe arrival.
2:51
Speaker 1: Several more times thereafter, before finally insisting that she returned home.
2:57
Speaker 1: It's one thing to call and make sure that you're
3:00
Speaker 1: her wife made it to where she was going, but
3:03
Speaker 1: then to like keep calling. I was about to ask,
3:06
Speaker 1: was she picking up? Is that why? Like was she
3:09
Speaker 1: not picking up? Is that why he kept killing or
3:11
Speaker 1: they were definitely picking up the phone.
3:14
Speaker 2: Okay, if that sounds a little toxic, yeah, a little bit,
3:17
Speaker 2: like I don't know the story.
3:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but that Sunday he hadn't checked in for
3:24
Speaker 1: five hours, completely unheard of, because he would call sometimes
3:30
Speaker 1: in fifteen minute intervals the entire time she was gone.
3:35
Speaker 2: WHOA if someone, dude, if someone's doing that to you,
3:39
Speaker 2: that's intense.
3:40
Speaker 1: That's entirely too.
3:42
Speaker 2: Much, very controlling, like just making sure that you're not
3:45
Speaker 2: like doing anything they wouldn't want you to be doing well.
3:49
Speaker 1: And really I think it was just like the point
3:52
Speaker 1: of like pestering her so that she would just come home.
3:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is so ugh.
3:57
Speaker 1: I don't like that, Like she's at her parents' house.
4:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I.
4:01
Speaker 1: Think it goes without saying that. We as a podcast,
4:06
Speaker 1: we hate that unless.
4:08
Speaker 2: You're both like, if you both want to be on
4:11
Speaker 2: the phone every fifteen minutes. Like, if you're both into it,
4:14
Speaker 2: go like you do, you go for it, be codependent
4:17
Speaker 2: if that's what you want.
4:19
Speaker 1: If you are both into that, I have to insist
4:22
Speaker 1: that you see a therapist. There's just no ifs ands
4:27
Speaker 1: or butts about that. I need you to just go
4:30
Speaker 1: see someone. I feel like, yeah, I gotta talk to somebody.
4:34
Speaker 2: Some people just like to be of each other's butts
4:36
Speaker 2: all the time. And that's fine if that's what you want.
4:39
Speaker 1: That's deep in there, that's so deep, so deep. As
4:46
Speaker 1: a girl, Jamie had been incredibly petite, though even as
4:51
Speaker 1: an adult woman, she'd really never topped about ninety five pounds.
4:56
Speaker 1: Very small, yes, and she was just over five feet
5:01
Speaker 1: like super short, very.
5:04
Speaker 3: Petite, like you said.
5:07
Speaker 1: The whole family played softball in local leagues, including Jamie.
5:12
Speaker 1: The Hagel children had what many might consider an idyllic upbringing,
5:17
Speaker 1: swimming in Lake Samamish, climbing trees with their friends, and
5:23
Speaker 1: in Jamie's case, riding horses.
5:27
Speaker 2: Very PMW stuff, you guys, that's the dream for Kate,
5:33
Speaker 2: like as a little girl, the horses.
5:40
Speaker 1: The family traveled back to North Dakota to visit extended
5:43
Speaker 1: family for holidays. Though they weren't the lone settlers in
5:47
Speaker 1: their newfound home state. They joined two of Jodie's brothers
5:51
Speaker 1: who had previously settled into Washington. Jamie was a sweet
5:56
Speaker 1: child and growing up had really close relationships with I mean,
6:02
Speaker 1: ultimately it seems like her entire family, but with both
6:05
Speaker 1: of her parents. As she went on to high school
6:09
Speaker 1: at Samamish High, little changed. So I'm sure that there
6:15
Speaker 1: were probably moments when she was a teen that, like
6:18
Speaker 1: her parents and her thought, but she never became like
6:21
Speaker 1: one of those super combative, you know, teenagers. Not a rebel, No,
6:28
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it. Her sophomore year, Jamie began dating
6:32
Speaker 1: her high school sweetheart, Greg. Her family approved of their
6:36
Speaker 1: relationship and all got along really well, so pretty wholesome. Yeah,
6:44
Speaker 1: I feel like most of the time, your parents don't
6:47
Speaker 1: always love who you're dating when you're a teenager.
6:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of the time.
6:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean the couple dated for nearly six years,
6:58
Speaker 1: the remainder of their time in high school and for
7:00
Speaker 1: some time after graduation as well. Greg would say in
7:04
Speaker 1: hindsight that Jamie had been his first love. Oh I know.
7:11
Speaker 1: Though eventually they grew apart as a couple, the two
7:14
Speaker 1: would remain friends.
7:16
Speaker 3: That's very sweet.
7:17
Speaker 1: I know, it's just so heartwarming. I like that. Eventually
7:22
Speaker 1: Jamie would meet someone new and very different from her
7:26
Speaker 1: first love Greg. It happens, yep, sure, yes. Steve Shearer
7:32
Speaker 1: was a twenty four year old motorcycle riding man that
7:36
Speaker 1: and this is a quote none of Jamie's family particularly
7:41
Speaker 1: cared for.
7:42
Speaker 2: Oh oh, she was getting into her rebel phase now,
7:48
Speaker 2: uh yeah, yeah yeah, and that was from the very beginning, Like,
7:53
Speaker 2: just didn't give off good vibes from the start. Man.
7:59
Speaker 1: Though not physic imposing at five seven, his abrasive personality
8:04
Speaker 1: hardly made it easier to like him. He's tall to her, though,
8:09
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.
8:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got that like short man syndrome.
8:14
Speaker 1: Oh my god, was he ever? Oh boy, call him Napoleon.
8:23
Speaker 1: Though Steve didn't seem to have steady work, typically, he
8:26
Speaker 1: did always drive nice cars and always seemed to make
8:31
Speaker 1: or at least have more than enough money. Nice Okay,
8:36
Speaker 1: you yeah, jealous? He'd right, Okay, I don't need to
8:41
Speaker 1: make money. I would just like to have some acin
8:47
Speaker 1: has cheeseburger, He'd told Jamie early on in their relationship
8:54
Speaker 1: that he came from a wealthy family.
8:58
Speaker 2: I feel like, by the way you said that he
9:01
Speaker 2: told her that it might not be true.
9:05
Speaker 1: Well, it's not exactly that it's untrue. I just feel
9:09
Speaker 1: like it's just a gigantic eye roll for me, oh,
9:13
Speaker 1: because it's like, okay, right, but dude, you're like twenty four,
9:17
Speaker 1: so I think most people would be hoping that maybe
9:20
Speaker 1: you'd be making some of your own money.
9:24
Speaker 2: I see, yeah, okay, huh ah, it's my family's money.
9:30
Speaker 1: How sexy is that so sexy? I love your daddy's money.
9:39
Speaker 1: Just go straight to the source, I know, just go
9:42
Speaker 1: for daddy. Yeah, well, wasn't really an option. Steve Frank
9:50
Speaker 1: Shearer was born just before nine am on November fourth,
9:54
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one, in California, to parents David and Sherry.
9:59
Speaker 1: His father, David, was a bricklayer at the time, but
10:02
Speaker 1: once the family relocated to Washington, he started a construction company,
10:08
Speaker 1: Shearer Quality Homes in Effett. It quickly became a success
10:13
Speaker 1: as the new suburban neighborhoods around Seattle began to expand.
10:17
Speaker 1: In addition to their home in Lynnwood, they had multiple
10:21
Speaker 1: vacation homes in Scottsdale, Arizona, and Palm Desert, California, near
10:26
Speaker 1: the desirable affluent area of Rancho Mirage, Verfa.
10:31
Speaker 3: I've never heard of that.
10:33
Speaker 1: It's where, it's not far from like where they do Coachella.
10:39
Speaker 1: A lot of people go there to retire. There's a
10:42
Speaker 1: lot of celebrities with homes down there, a lot of
10:46
Speaker 1: like you know, high end hobbies like girls. David would
10:50
Speaker 1: die by suicide at age forty four, when Steve was
10:54
Speaker 1: just twenty two years old. Sit Reportedly he and his
10:58
Speaker 1: wife Sherry had frequent argued about his excessive drinking. On
11:03
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving nineteen eighty two, David decided to head down to
11:07
Speaker 1: their home and Palm Desert, telling Sherry he intended to
11:12
Speaker 1: get himself together, referring to his drinking, which I don't
11:18
Speaker 1: exactly think of like getting myself together as being like,
11:23
Speaker 1: here's the step I'm going to take. I'm going to
11:25
Speaker 1: go and spend a family holiday that's all about getting
11:30
Speaker 1: together and eating and being thankful by myself alone in
11:35
Speaker 1: one of our vacation properties. Doesn't really read like super
11:40
Speaker 1: serious about being sober and you know, fixing the problems
11:46
Speaker 1: in my marriage. It sounds like a maybe like a
11:49
Speaker 1: last get drunk, you know, yeah, I mean like a
11:53
Speaker 1: last hurrah. Yeah, that's the word. I was like, there's
11:56
Speaker 1: a word for this. Yes, there's a lot of words
11:59
Speaker 1: for them, and it actually there's it's not gonna go
12:06
Speaker 1: well obviously I led with, you know, the the unaliving, So.
12:13
Speaker 2: Like that's what I would want to think when someone's
12:15
Speaker 2: doing that, like not that they're gonna.
12:16
Speaker 1: Go right unlive themselves.
12:19
Speaker 2: That they're gonna go have like a last hurrah and
12:22
Speaker 2: then go to rehab, right.
12:25
Speaker 1: Right, right exactly. Yeah, you'd want to think like, Okay,
12:28
Speaker 1: he's having one last binge and then you know things
12:31
Speaker 1: are going to get better from here. And sadly that
12:35
Speaker 1: just obviously wasn't the case. However, when David called late
12:39
Speaker 1: that night, clearly heavily intoxicated, Sherry became concerned, though she
12:45
Speaker 1: didn't take what sounded like claims of suicidal ideation seriously.
12:50
Speaker 1: He had told her he had a gun in his possession.
12:54
Speaker 1: She wasn't aware of any besides a thirty two caliber
12:57
Speaker 1: that he had been given to him by his father.
13:01
Speaker 1: She believed that weapon to be back in their Washington
13:04
Speaker 1: State home, though she may not have believed every detail
13:08
Speaker 1: he shared as they fought bitterly over the phone. Something
13:11
Speaker 1: did compel her to get on a plane to California
13:14
Speaker 1: later that night. Wow, she got a really bad feeling
13:19
Speaker 1: either way.
13:20
Speaker 2: Yeah.
13:21
Speaker 1: I think, honestly, if your husband's talking like that, even
13:24
Speaker 1: if you don't believe him, I feel like I would
13:26
Speaker 1: be doing the same thing, right. I feel like you
13:29
Speaker 1: should just default to believing people. Yeah, yeah, it's kind
13:34
Speaker 1: of a serious thing to like roll the dice, just
13:37
Speaker 1: my two cents. But when she arrived at their Palm
13:41
Speaker 1: Desert home, she would find her husband David dead of
13:44
Speaker 1: an apparent self inflicted gunshot wound to the head. By
13:48
Speaker 1: the time ems arrived, Rigrimordes had said in there was
13:53
Speaker 1: a bullet hole marked by blood spatter, but the bullet
13:57
Speaker 1: itself was not recovered. The detective believed it had descended
14:02
Speaker 1: to the floor between studs, rather than penetrating through the
14:06
Speaker 1: nearby wall. So the interesting thing about this is, I
14:11
Speaker 1: feel like, because because that bullet wasn't recovered, it was
14:16
Speaker 1: a through and through shot and they didn't recover that.
14:19
Speaker 1: At the scene, there were definitely some people that It's
14:25
Speaker 1: like there was almost like kind of chatter about like ooh,
14:28
Speaker 1: are we sure this was a suicide, and like, right,
14:33
Speaker 1: kind of seems a little fishy, and later events will
14:39
Speaker 1: make that seem like, oh, maybe we should look at
14:44
Speaker 1: that a second time. I don't think it ever got
14:46
Speaker 1: looked at a second time. Whohoa, that is weird. They
14:51
Speaker 1: couldn't like pull up the floorboards. I just think that
14:54
Speaker 1: when it was like seemingly such an apparent suicide, they
14:58
Speaker 1: were like, we're not gonna do that. But yeah, yeah, personally,
15:04
Speaker 1: I do think that based on the information that I have,
15:08
Speaker 1: more than likely it's a suicide. That piece of it
15:11
Speaker 1: is like a little bit wonky or kind of rolls
15:15
Speaker 1: around in the back of your mind like, ooh that.
15:18
Speaker 1: I wish they had just recovered it so that we
15:21
Speaker 1: could just like everybody could feel like we had everything.
15:25
Speaker 1: But the house itself showed no signs of forest entry,
15:29
Speaker 1: nothing was missing, and generally it appeared the house was undisturbed.
15:35
Speaker 1: David's body showed no signs of a struggle or defensive wounds.
15:40
Speaker 1: His toxicology report revealed a blood alcohol level of point one,
15:47
Speaker 1: which is pretty high. Yeah, I mean, it's odd as
15:50
Speaker 1: high as I was expecting. Yeah, I kind of thought
15:54
Speaker 1: the same though, no note had been left behind. His
15:58
Speaker 1: death was officially a suicide. He'd been in good health,
16:03
Speaker 1: and his untimely death was a shock. So I think
16:08
Speaker 1: that's the other thing that maybe gives people pause is that,
16:13
Speaker 1: like I feel a little bit weird that there's not
16:15
Speaker 1: a note. Not everyone leaves a note, but I feel
16:19
Speaker 1: like if you have a family, more often than not
16:23
Speaker 1: there's a note, right right.
16:25
Speaker 2: But if you're in like that drunken, yeah, say you're
16:29
Speaker 2: like not always yourself and you're.
16:31
Speaker 1: Maybe not down and yeah, maybe not feeling like the
16:35
Speaker 1: most clear headed obviously, but like making irrational decisions like yeah, yeah,
16:42
Speaker 1: I mean I think that definitely can play a part.
16:46
Speaker 1: It just I don't know. It almost made me want
16:48
Speaker 1: to look up like statistics about like, you know, what
16:53
Speaker 1: is the prevalence of people that like do versus don't
16:56
Speaker 1: leave notes.
16:58
Speaker 2: It is very interesting to like go away and be secluded,
17:03
Speaker 2: like in a house that you know, and not leave
17:05
Speaker 2: a note Like that is that makes it extra weird?
17:08
Speaker 1: I think I think so too. I feel like it's
17:12
Speaker 1: like I understand maybe not wanting to do that with
17:17
Speaker 1: other people present that presents some challenges, but like you
17:23
Speaker 1: know that you're still going to be found obviously, but yeah,
17:28
Speaker 1: I don't know.
17:29
Speaker 2: I mean, it makes me think he wasn't planning on
17:31
Speaker 2: it when he went there, and he just like made
17:34
Speaker 2: the decision while he was intoxicated.
17:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's so hard to say, but it is.
17:40
Speaker 1: But I feel like that's a that's an interesting thought.
17:43
Speaker 1: I hadn't really considered that. By the time his father died,
17:48
Speaker 1: Steve had already given both of his parents hell as
17:51
Speaker 1: a frequent flyer with law enforcement, no surprise given his
17:55
Speaker 1: mercurial moods malicious mischief, heavy drinking, and frequent drug use,
18:02
Speaker 1: as well as his penchant to become abusive, even violent
18:08
Speaker 1: when under the influence, which I feel like, why is
18:11
Speaker 1: it people that really like the drugs and the drinken
18:14
Speaker 1: the most that that seems to be the case. It's like,
18:18
Speaker 1: couldn't the person who becomes violent under the influence be
18:22
Speaker 1: one of those people that's just like squeaky clean, so
18:26
Speaker 1: that nobody has to find out, Like, wouldn't that be great?
18:31
Speaker 1: This was especially apparent when his easily inflamed jealousy reared
18:35
Speaker 1: its ugly head. He had a type petite blonde women,
18:40
Speaker 1: usually with ample chess, and he had an m O
18:45
Speaker 1: love bombing, which could turn to emotional and verbal abuse
18:49
Speaker 1: on a dime. Hmm, I just like it's so boring,
18:57
Speaker 1: it's so cliche. It's like, really, oh my god, he
19:03
Speaker 1: likes thin blonde women with big boobs. Jesus Christ.
19:08
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're thin and blonde and you have
19:10
Speaker 3: big boobs, like, nothing against you.
19:12
Speaker 1: Nothing wrong with that, but just like, as a man,
19:16
Speaker 1: that's your type. And then you're like, also, I'm going
19:18
Speaker 1: to be the most typical and just be like an
19:21
Speaker 1: absolute trash heap. Yes, but threats, choking, and other abuse
19:30
Speaker 1: weren't beyond his wheelhouse. A previous romantic partner had recalled
19:36
Speaker 1: a frightening incident. Resolved to escape the highly explosive relationship,
19:42
Speaker 1: she had abandoned her things in their shared department, only
19:47
Speaker 1: returning when it could be confirmed that Steve wouldn't be home.
19:52
Speaker 1: She returned to try to collect her things, to find
19:55
Speaker 1: that he'd laid out her stuffed animals and dolls. Decapit.
20:03
Speaker 1: What did they do to you? Honestly? This is like
20:10
Speaker 1: that is a sign to just like run as far
20:14
Speaker 1: and as fast as you can possibly get from this man,
20:17
Speaker 1: and like, don't ever look back, like old was he
20:22
Speaker 1: like that? This is like he's in his twenties. Like
20:26
Speaker 1: I feel like.
20:27
Speaker 2: That's something like a little girl would do. Who was
20:30
Speaker 2: throwing a fit because her sister like took something from
20:33
Speaker 2: her and she's like, I don't know, decapt it all
20:35
Speaker 2: of your dolls and stuffed animals like what?
20:38
Speaker 1: Okay. Also, I have to say, I'm sure there are
20:41
Speaker 1: kids that do things like this to get at a sibling,
20:44
Speaker 1: but like maybe that child should talk, someone should talk
20:51
Speaker 1: to them.
20:54
Speaker 2: It just sounded like a spoiled brat kid, like you know,
20:58
Speaker 2: oh yeah, slightly disturb.
21:00
Speaker 1: I mean, he is a spoiled brat kid. It came
21:03
Speaker 1: from a wealthy family, and he's obviously very used to
21:08
Speaker 1: getting his way. Okay, Like I.
21:11
Speaker 2: Know, also gender norms and whatever, but it's just like
21:15
Speaker 2: not something a grown man I would ever picture.
21:20
Speaker 1: Would do. I just feel like, don't, like whoever you are,
21:25
Speaker 1: just maybe don't Maybe we don't do this literally ever.
21:33
Speaker 2: If you're gonna like decapitate things, maybe like use it
21:35
Speaker 2: for Halloween decorations.
21:37
Speaker 3: Like that's fine, right if that's true.
21:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm given style. I'm given to understand that this
21:43
Speaker 1: wasn't during spooky season. So that is just the weirdest
21:48
Speaker 1: any thing you've ever told me. I think, yeah, I
21:52
Speaker 1: mean it's so bizarre because obviously it's not harming her physically,
21:58
Speaker 1: but like the actual creepy ghost bumpy feeling that it
22:04
Speaker 1: gives me is just it's it's so chilling.
22:09
Speaker 2: I can like picture it too, Like I can picture
22:12
Speaker 2: his vibe and like his energy while he's like decapitating
22:16
Speaker 2: the dolls and like thinking of her.
22:19
Speaker 1: Right exactly exactly. God, It's just I really don't like it.
22:26
Speaker 2: I'm never going to get over this, Like I just
22:28
Speaker 2: want to keep analyzing it because.
22:30
Speaker 1: I know it's so odd, and I'm going to tell
22:32
Speaker 1: you we just don't have time.
22:36
Speaker 3: Can we talk to a therapist? Can we get a
22:38
Speaker 3: therapist on the show?
22:41
Speaker 1: Any therapist less?
22:42
Speaker 2: I think the psychological psychoellis yeah, psychoanalysts.
22:48
Speaker 1: We'll take what we can get, literally care what the
22:50
Speaker 1: title is. Sadly, this wouldn't be the last straw the
22:56
Speaker 1: cycle of breaking up and gradually taking Steve back. After
23:00
Speaker 1: his persistent baking continued, this woman continued the on again,
23:06
Speaker 1: off again patterned with Steve. And I know that we
23:10
Speaker 1: all probably have an awareness at this point of how
23:14
Speaker 1: difficult it is to leave. When you do leave, it
23:18
Speaker 1: is the most unsafe time in what can be a
23:24
Speaker 1: very like dangerous situation to begin with. But oh my god,
23:30
Speaker 1: oh my god, like this this just would have been
23:34
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I just don't see any way
23:37
Speaker 1: of coming back from this. I feel so so horrifically
23:42
Speaker 1: sad for a woman that would feel that either she
23:47
Speaker 1: has no choice or that she has really been manipulated
23:51
Speaker 1: by him at a level that their relationship continued after.
23:55
Speaker 3: That, that is yeah.
23:57
Speaker 1: Horrified, horrifying. Even when Steve entered a new relationship with Jamie,
24:04
Speaker 1: the abuse continued. Both women lived in the same complex,
24:08
Speaker 1: and at some point they actually became aware of one another.
24:12
Speaker 1: When she finally left for good, the other woman didn't
24:15
Speaker 1: manage to escape unscathed, and that violent assault led to
24:20
Speaker 1: Steve's arrest. As he was dragged away by officers, healed,
24:25
Speaker 1: fuck off, I'm going to kill you, bitch belligerently, which
24:29
Speaker 1: was documented in the arresting officer's report. Was he talking
24:34
Speaker 1: to the woman or the cop to the women? Yeah, okay,
24:38
Speaker 1: I mean I'm sure he was also angry at the
24:40
Speaker 1: at the officers as well. But you know, just the
24:43
Speaker 1: use of the word bitch.
24:45
Speaker 2: You know, you can call anyone a bitch, but it
24:47
Speaker 2: seems like it would be directed at the a woman.
24:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, it was pretty clear. As their relationship progressed,
24:56
Speaker 1: Jamie's family witnessed her transform from blea her hair to
25:01
Speaker 1: losing the spark of confidence in her spirit. She quickly
25:05
Speaker 1: became subservient, isolated. Still, despite her parents' shock and horror,
25:11
Speaker 1: it seemed there was nothing they could do, and the
25:14
Speaker 1: couple even secretly got engaged. Ooh so not great. Jamie's
25:22
Speaker 1: size four thirteen thousand, five hundred dollars heirloom ring was
25:27
Speaker 1: ensured and and in October nineteen eighty six, Steve would
25:32
Speaker 1: report the ring in a number of other valuables, totaling
25:35
Speaker 1: more than thirty two thousand dollars stolen.
25:39
Speaker 2: Damn, yeah, I mean that sucks if that happened. Yep.
25:45
Speaker 1: Did I pick up a vibe? Sure did. Also, I
25:48
Speaker 1: just want to say, a thirteen thousand, five hundred dollars ring,
25:53
Speaker 1: that's a decent that's a decent ring, right, ah yeah,
25:59
Speaker 1: funny enough. The insurance company, they were kind of of
26:02
Speaker 1: the same mind as you. They thought the timing was
26:06
Speaker 1: incredibly suspicious, as their policy had been set to expire
26:10
Speaker 1: early in the new year. Ultimately, they would still pay
26:14
Speaker 1: the claim, even though doubts and suspicion seemingly lingered. Yeah,
26:20
Speaker 1: if your.
26:21
Speaker 3: Insurance company asked suspicions.
26:23
Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, And here's the thing. I didn't actually
26:26
Speaker 1: include this in my notes, but we know that this
26:31
Speaker 1: was insurance fraud. We know for sure a one thousand
26:35
Speaker 1: percent because Jamie's mother a few months later was like, wait,
26:41
Speaker 1: what that's your same ring. You guys bought a replacement
26:45
Speaker 1: and she's like, no, girl, I reckon, like I know
26:48
Speaker 1: that's your same ring. This isn't like a replica, this
26:53
Speaker 1: is the ring. And Jamie admitted she didn't know that
26:58
Speaker 1: this is what was happening, and what was she supposed
27:01
Speaker 1: to do now? She didn't know that Steve was going
27:03
Speaker 1: to do this, and now she felt like trapped because
27:07
Speaker 1: what is she going to do? Read out her fiance
27:10
Speaker 1: And my my answer is yes, yes.
27:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's understandable why you wouldn't maybe.
27:18
Speaker 1: Or or maybe the right answer is drop a dime
27:21
Speaker 1: on that booch any whosel She could have been scared
27:25
Speaker 1: of him. I mean, she was definitely scared of him. Definitely,
27:28
Speaker 1: she could have been. She's definitely scared of him, and
27:32
Speaker 1: she had good reason to be. She'd already seen some
27:36
Speaker 1: things at that point.
27:38
Speaker 3: Decapitations.
27:39
Speaker 1: Well that wasn't Jamie, that was his. Oh oh wait, okay,
27:43
Speaker 1: that's right. I can't have whyse are so many. I
27:46
Speaker 1: know she doesn't.
27:48
Speaker 2: She doesn't even know about the decapitations, and she's scared presumably.
27:52
Speaker 1: I mean she knows that obviously he has a tendency
27:56
Speaker 1: to kind of fly off the handle. He's going to temper,
27:59
Speaker 1: he's got some addiction issues, so I mean she's not
28:04
Speaker 1: completely unaware of how volatile he can be. But yeah,
28:10
Speaker 1: suffice to say, yeah, she was scared of him a
28:13
Speaker 1: little bit, so, which is I mean, it's really sad
28:17
Speaker 1: to think that that's how this person lived their life.
28:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
28:23
Speaker 1: During this period when the couple lived in California, Jamie's
28:27
Speaker 1: parents were wrecked with anxiety and worry for their daughter.
28:31
Speaker 1: While they certainly weren't given the whole picture, for better
28:34
Speaker 1: or worse, they couldn't have known how controlling and abusive
28:38
Speaker 1: Steve was already, nor how much worse it would get.
28:41
Speaker 1: So Jamie's brothers were a little bit more aware of
28:45
Speaker 1: some of the things that were going on behind the
28:47
Speaker 1: scenes at first, and they were not getting good vibes.
28:53
Speaker 1: But I think there was a little bit of an
28:57
Speaker 1: attitude with the family. And I understand this, and I'm
29:00
Speaker 1: inclined to agree because there's only so much you can do.
29:05
Speaker 1: This is an adult woman, and I think that you
29:10
Speaker 1: have to be there for her and whatever you can
29:14
Speaker 1: do to kind of show this person that, like, we
29:18
Speaker 1: love you and you know, I'm a safe space for you. You
29:22
Speaker 1: don't want to push them away.
29:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you could really easily, yeah, do that and
29:27
Speaker 2: isolate them with the.
29:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there's there's no one that they feel
29:33
Speaker 1: like can be like their safety in that. And that's
29:37
Speaker 1: that's kind of worst case scenario. But it's got to
29:42
Speaker 1: be so so hard to witness and and to just
29:48
Speaker 1: sit with that that your sister, your daughter is you know,
29:52
Speaker 1: coexisting with this person his illicit hobbies and spending habits
29:58
Speaker 1: force them to take on a room. May Around this time,
30:02
Speaker 1: a young woman from Wisconsin who badly needed a place
30:05
Speaker 1: to live m She traded one bad living situation for
30:11
Speaker 1: another when she moved in with the couple. Not long
30:15
Speaker 1: after moving in with Jamie and Steve. She returned to
30:18
Speaker 1: their shared home to relax, and found herself facing Steve's wrath, oh,
30:25
Speaker 1: for which she could see really like no reason pretty.
30:29
Speaker 3: Much, I'm sure.
30:31
Speaker 1: Yeah. Drunken reasons, yeah yeah, well drunk and high reasons,
30:38
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. Cocaine's a hell of a drug. What
30:46
Speaker 1: started as a seemingly innocuous, if you know, a little
30:49
Speaker 1: bit heated conversation quickly escalated to a physical altercation. Jesus,
30:56
Speaker 1: it's just your roommate, bro, it's not that serious. It
31:00
Speaker 1: was pretty serious pretty quickly. God. Steve threatened both women
31:04
Speaker 1: with a knife, but in the end turned it on himself.
31:10
Speaker 1: The sound of sirens converging and their shared fear was
31:14
Speaker 1: interrupted by a brief moment of seemingly sheer dumb luck.
31:19
Speaker 1: Like literally this woman like ran into her room. She
31:25
Speaker 1: had like thrown a table to like create a physical
31:30
Speaker 1: barrier between Steve and Jamie, and she fled to her
31:33
Speaker 1: room called nine one one, and the cops got there
31:37
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. And him hearing the sirens is what prompted
31:43
Speaker 1: him to, you know, just casually stab himself in the gut.
31:49
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, I know, can you imagine the trauma both
31:53
Speaker 1: of these poor women like he's physically attacked them. They
31:56
Speaker 1: thought they were gonna die. Christmas teen eighty six, the
32:01
Speaker 1: couple spent in Washington with family. Well, it seems at
32:06
Speaker 1: least Jamie did, because Steve was actually arrested on Christmas
32:11
Speaker 1: Eve after driving without a valid license and violating the
32:15
Speaker 1: protection order of his ex girlfriend. No, he went to
32:21
Speaker 1: her house. I don't know where he went to go
32:25
Speaker 1: to her, but he went to go to her. Sounds
32:29
Speaker 1: festive right Christmas Eve? Dude, Seriously, your fiance is enjoying
32:37
Speaker 1: the holiday with her family. But Steve did end up
32:41
Speaker 1: spending some time in jail, but unrelated to his holiday. Humbuggery,
32:47
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't be until several months later. I love
32:50
Speaker 1: saying humbug and humbuggery, humbuggery. You gotta be kidding me.
32:56
Speaker 3: I love it.
32:58
Speaker 1: If I could fit that somewhere into this again.
33:02
Speaker 2: That needs to be on a T shirt for Christmas
33:05
Speaker 2: or sweater. Humbuggery.
33:08
Speaker 1: I love it. While he was serving his time in
33:10
Speaker 1: May of nineteen eighty seven, Steve and Jamie wrote each other,
33:15
Speaker 1: the drama never ceasing, even as she found professional success
33:19
Speaker 1: and her new job working at Microsoft. Oh, she was
33:24
Speaker 1: in on like the ground floor. Okay, she got stock
33:29
Speaker 1: options and she Jamie's family was relieved that she was
33:34
Speaker 1: closer to them once again when the couple had decided
33:37
Speaker 1: to return to Washington and were happy for her professional success.
33:42
Speaker 1: At some point, Steve coaxed Jamie into getting implants, sizeable
33:47
Speaker 1: ones that many thought overwhelmed her small frame, and just
33:52
Speaker 1: like that, her wardrobe began to transform from clean cut,
33:57
Speaker 1: very like sporty to over feminine and often very revealing.
34:04
Speaker 2: Well, how could it not be rebellion if you got
34:06
Speaker 2: those big old kities, got them bazagnas, They're just gonna
34:10
Speaker 2: fall out of everything.
34:11
Speaker 1: That that's my problem. Now. I've seen photos of her
34:15
Speaker 1: after she had the implants done, and I actually don't
34:18
Speaker 1: think they were all that crazy, just from like what
34:23
Speaker 1: I can tell, I don't know what the before really
34:26
Speaker 1: looked like. Uh, I'm almost like late eighties or early nineties.
34:30
Speaker 1: You said, yeah, late eighties. Yeah, so I feel like.
34:33
Speaker 2: Big like Pamela Anderson like boobies were. Yeah, they're kind
34:38
Speaker 2: of in you know hm. And I don't feel bad
34:41
Speaker 2: if she didn't want those.
34:42
Speaker 1: Though, like yeah, I you know, I I think he
34:49
Speaker 1: just wore her down basically. So, like I said, I
34:52
Speaker 1: don't think they were that crazy for the time, and
34:55
Speaker 1: I feel like you should be able to to do
34:58
Speaker 1: whatever you want. I so I just I don't think
35:02
Speaker 1: that we need quite so much commentary on women's bodies
35:06
Speaker 1: and choices, no past, present future, just maybe shut the
35:10
Speaker 1: fuck up. But like you shouldn't have any opinion on right,
35:14
Speaker 1: But this wasn't her choice, and that's that's where I
35:18
Speaker 1: get a little bit upset. I also get a little
35:21
Speaker 1: bit upset because of the way that Anne Rule in
35:25
Speaker 1: her book described Jamie's wedding dress, because I have seen
35:30
Speaker 1: the dress, and shame on you for talking about my
35:35
Speaker 1: friend Jamie that way. But I digress. Oh no, it
35:41
Speaker 1: wasn't it was it was a little slutshamy. H I know. Ultimately,
35:46
Speaker 1: like that wasn't really the that wasn't really a.
35:50
Speaker 2: Thing that like that was the thing everyone did up
35:53
Speaker 2: until just like a couple of years ago.
35:55
Speaker 1: So right, right, yeah, yeah, and ultimately, like a lot
35:59
Speaker 1: of people are still doing.
36:00
Speaker 3: But yeah, non excuse, but it's just a fact.
36:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean really, the takeaway here is just that
36:08
Speaker 1: Jamie is making a lot of changes and all at
36:12
Speaker 1: the urging of Steve. And so whether you think the
36:16
Speaker 1: boobs were big or not, it doesn't really matter. It's
36:18
Speaker 1: just giving, controlling and dick. Personally, I thought they looked incredible.
36:26
Speaker 1: Then of course eventually there would be a wedding, because
36:30
Speaker 1: they did get married. Even Steve's own sister was surprised
36:34
Speaker 1: at Jamie's choice of dress when the couple typed the
36:37
Speaker 1: Knot in July of nineteen eighty seven. Despite it being
36:40
Speaker 1: such a formal affair, the dress she dawned was far
36:43
Speaker 1: more revealing than Steve's sister thought was probably typical of
36:49
Speaker 1: her style, particularly with her newly augmented bust. Honestly, I
36:55
Speaker 1: was expecting this thing to be cut down a hill
36:59
Speaker 1: and be like like yours. I was gonna say, I
37:04
Speaker 1: actually think my wedding dress was like a lot more revealing.
37:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, now I want to see this because and
37:10
Speaker 2: now I'm feeling like it's being hyped up and I.
37:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, here's the thing. I was a little bit
37:16
Speaker 1: pissed off when I finally got to the point of
37:19
Speaker 1: seeing photos of the wedding dress, Like it took me
37:21
Speaker 1: a minute to process, and I was like, crazy person,
37:24
Speaker 1: say what because I'm like, okay, here, oh that is
37:30
Speaker 1: like it's like not even that is nothing.
37:34
Speaker 2: It's literally I think just because her boobs are big,
37:37
Speaker 2: that people think that and her boobs do not look.
37:40
Speaker 1: Like then they're she looks beautiful. No, she's gorgeous. I
37:47
Speaker 1: mean I feel like if the dress that she picked
37:52
Speaker 1: wasn't to her liking, or you know, having the boobs
37:56
Speaker 1: done that wasn't to her liking, I hate that. I
38:00
Speaker 1: hate that a lot, but I just, you know, like
38:05
Speaker 1: I didn't care for how Anne Rule put it at all.
38:10
Speaker 1: I just felt like it was very slutshamy and I
38:13
Speaker 1: didn't like it. I was just reading my next line
38:17
Speaker 1: and it immediately Dixie Chick started playing in my head. Earl,
38:21
Speaker 1: how to Die wasn't too long anyways. It wasn't too
38:28
Speaker 1: long after the couple married that Jamie and Steve were
38:31
Speaker 1: expecting their first child. Steve didn't seem terribly interested. No, no,
38:38
Speaker 1: which is why not.
38:39
Speaker 3: Have someone else to control?
38:42
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I guess he hadn't thought of that
38:45
Speaker 1: ankle yet.
38:47
Speaker 3: Well I'm glad he didn't.
38:48
Speaker 1: Well, I think it would occur to him eventually, so
38:51
Speaker 1: I wouldn't get excited his interest lay in the now
38:55
Speaker 1: evident proof of his virility, and it did nothing to
38:59
Speaker 1: soften and shall we say his rough edges, because it
39:04
Speaker 1: never does. It literally never does. If he's a piece
39:08
Speaker 1: of shit before you have a baby, guess what now,
39:11
Speaker 1: you just had a baby with a piece of shit.
39:15
Speaker 1: It's not her fault. By this time, he'd abandoned anything
39:21
Speaker 1: resembling pretense or niceties with the Hegel family. He picked
39:26
Speaker 1: it Judy, particularly, telling her so frequently to stay out
39:30
Speaker 1: of their business or she wouldn't see Jamie that she
39:34
Speaker 1: was fearful any gesture might lead to her daughter being
39:38
Speaker 1: ripped away and possibly permanently. Steve refused to be present
39:45
Speaker 1: during the delivery of their child if Judy was there. Though,
39:51
Speaker 1: when the time came and labor had worn on for Jamie,
39:55
Speaker 1: I think at this point she was at God. I
39:58
Speaker 1: want to say she'd been a and this is just
40:00
Speaker 1: off the top of my head, I want to say
40:02
Speaker 1: she'd been in labor for like twenty one hours or something. Shit.
40:07
Speaker 1: He called missus Hagel himself. Judy was surprised and grateful,
40:13
Speaker 1: which honestly might be one of the only kind things
40:18
Speaker 1: that he ever did for anyone, and I feel like
40:21
Speaker 1: it was selfish because I'm pretty sure he left after that.
40:25
Speaker 1: He just was done. That was that's a long time.
40:27
Speaker 1: He needed to go have a drink. Yeah, hit the slopes.
40:32
Speaker 1: As you might suspect. Unfortunately, becoming a father didn't have
40:36
Speaker 1: a particularly stabilizing effect on Steve. Reliable caretaking isn't always
40:42
Speaker 1: within the wheelhouse of someone presumably in the throes of addiction,
40:47
Speaker 1: misguided as it was. In addition to being very troubling,
40:51
Speaker 1: Jamie said she sometimes used cocaine herself because, and this
40:56
Speaker 1: is a quote that a friend shared, because the more
41:01
Speaker 1: I do, the less Steve will and the less I
41:04
Speaker 1: will have to put up with. We won't have so
41:07
Speaker 1: much fighting. I do it just to keep the peace.
41:10
Speaker 3: Holy shit balls.
41:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just sad. She had tried actually just holding
41:18
Speaker 1: back some of his stash, and when he figured out
41:22
Speaker 1: that she was doing that, that was a big problem.
41:27
Speaker 3: Oh man. So so she's like, well, I'll just do it.
41:31
Speaker 1: I guess I will just also consume some as well,
41:34
Speaker 1: so that there's less for him to do. Wow, which
41:38
Speaker 1: is I feel like I don't need to explain that
41:41
Speaker 1: that's problematic, But that's.
41:44
Speaker 3: Just yeah, that's just really sad to.
41:46
Speaker 1: Me, I know. And then here's the other thing is
41:49
Speaker 1: I had this thought that, uh and here I am
41:52
Speaker 1: thinking that people do cocaine because they were told by
41:55
Speaker 1: a doctor there's ghosts in their blood. Wait, is that
41:59
Speaker 1: the care for ghost blood? I was a little cocaine,
42:04
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think I got the ghost blood,
42:08
Speaker 1: you guys. As the decade was nearing a close in
42:12
Speaker 1: November of nineteen eighty nine, little had changed other than
42:16
Speaker 1: a young child being thrown into the mix.
42:20
Speaker 3: Oh that's sad for everyone involved.
42:24
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it really is. I feel like it's just
42:28
Speaker 1: that's not a good situation. And yeah, it was like
42:32
Speaker 1: a race to the bottom for Steve to prove to
42:36
Speaker 1: everyone how badly he would, you know, fuck up a kid.
42:42
Speaker 1: Honest right. There were so many examples. They hurt my
42:48
Speaker 1: heart a lot. So I chose to leave some of
42:52
Speaker 1: those things out and just you know, we're kind of
42:55
Speaker 1: going broader strokes. But yeah, no, he was. He was
43:00
Speaker 1: not a great dad, shocking. Whenever Steve was otherwise occupied
43:05
Speaker 1: by spending time at the racetrack or whatever else he
43:08
Speaker 1: got up to, Jamie managed to sneak in visits for
43:11
Speaker 1: quality time with her parents and the rest of her family.
43:15
Speaker 1: She was holding her own at Microsoft, and the couple
43:18
Speaker 1: was hopeful about buying a home. In the end, she'd
43:22
Speaker 1: put her She put her company's stock up as collateral
43:26
Speaker 1: so that Sherry, her mother in law, Steve's mother, would
43:30
Speaker 1: give them the means to purchase. I don't love that
43:34
Speaker 1: because I just feel like, what does Steve bring to
43:37
Speaker 1: the table, you know, and just because you can kind
43:41
Speaker 1: of force these things to pencil out on paper, I
43:45
Speaker 1: just you know, what is he doing?
43:48
Speaker 3: What's his job?
43:49
Speaker 1: Have you talked about that? So? I mentioned early on
43:51
Speaker 1: that he wasn't real great about holding down stable work
43:55
Speaker 1: and that was kind of a constant for Steve kind
43:59
Speaker 1: of thoughts. So yeah, yeah, so.
44:02
Speaker 3: His wife and his mommy are doing it for him.
44:05
Speaker 1: You're got it. Yeah, you gotta love that. So around
44:10
Speaker 1: the time they were securing said home in Redmond, Jamie
44:14
Speaker 1: confided and at least one friend that once they moved in,
44:18
Speaker 1: she planned to leave Steve.
44:20
Speaker 2: That's kind of bold to have, like your mother in
44:23
Speaker 2: law help you get a house and.
44:24
Speaker 1: Then and then your son.
44:27
Speaker 3: Yeah.
44:28
Speaker 1: I just feel like, okay, and you can tell me
44:30
Speaker 1: maybe we'll have to cut this. But like immediately, the
44:34
Speaker 1: thought that I had was like, not quite sure. I
44:38
Speaker 1: understand the logic. I feel like it's a lot easier
44:41
Speaker 1: to to separate and to sever ties, Like you're already
44:46
Speaker 1: married and you have a kid. Why are you creating
44:50
Speaker 1: an additional tie to this man? It just, honestly, to me,
44:56
Speaker 1: it seems like the financial equivalent of like like how
45:00
Speaker 1: the mob will tie cement blocks to someone before you
45:03
Speaker 1: know they push him off a pier. I don't get that.
45:09
Speaker 1: Maybe she was hoping that like if Steve is like
45:13
Speaker 1: has a place to be, then like he won't need her.
45:18
Speaker 1: I just I couldn't really wrap my head around it.
45:21
Speaker 1: I really, it just doesn't make sense to me.
45:24
Speaker 2: But was she Oh I was thinking like she was
45:26
Speaker 2: playing on kicking out of him out of the house
45:29
Speaker 2: or something.
45:29
Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, I feel like like part of me wants
45:33
Speaker 1: to think that, Like maybe maybe that. But also if
45:37
Speaker 1: you're relying on his mom to help you, and you've
45:40
Speaker 1: put up your Microsoft stock to like convince her to
45:45
Speaker 1: help you, guys, it just seems like that doesn't put
45:48
Speaker 1: you in a position of power from like any standpoint.
45:52
Speaker 2: I don't get it, but which like you don't need
45:56
Speaker 2: to be in a position of power to leave, like,
45:58
Speaker 2: leave if you feel like you need to leave, you.
46:01
Speaker 1: Right, I just feel like this it just makes it
46:04
Speaker 1: more complicated.
46:05
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, maybe she just wanted to make sure a
46:08
Speaker 2: kid had like a house, like somewhere to be.
46:11
Speaker 1: I mean, and that completely understandable, totally get that. I
46:15
Speaker 1: just have a hard time putting myself like where was
46:18
Speaker 1: her head at with that in particular? But once they
46:22
Speaker 1: had their fixer upper starter home, little changed and it
46:27
Speaker 1: was definitely a fixer upper. Oh, but Steve had a
46:32
Speaker 1: new passion project of sorts, and that was convincing his
46:37
Speaker 1: wife to give swinging and threesomes a try. I thought
46:41
Speaker 1: you were going to say, home renovation. Come on, come on, are.
46:46
Speaker 2: There more important things going on in your life right now?
46:49
Speaker 2: New baby, new house, Like.
46:51
Speaker 1: Hmm, yeah, the timing of this feels a little bit
46:56
Speaker 1: is off. But suffice to say, Jamie was disinterested. No shit,
47:05
Speaker 1: she just gave birth and you know, you guys have
47:07
Speaker 1: a young child and you just bought a house. And
47:11
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not trying to yuck anybody's young, you know,
47:16
Speaker 1: but it just doesn't seem like they're in the place
47:19
Speaker 1: for that. Everybody's different but it doesn't seem like that's
47:22
Speaker 1: where her head was at. But obviously we know that
47:28
Speaker 1: Steve has no issue with just grabbing her head and
47:31
Speaker 1: directing it where he wants it. So again, Jamie was disinterested,
47:37
Speaker 1: but that didn't stop Steve from placing ads seeking a
47:41
Speaker 1: meal for an encounter with Jamie. I'm gonna say cuckolding
47:46
Speaker 1: seems an odd choice for a man who was so
47:49
Speaker 1: pretty naturally jealous, right, often saying he enjoyed the idea
47:57
Speaker 1: of watching her with another man, but that he would
48:01
Speaker 1: kill her if she ever cheated on him. There are
48:05
Speaker 1: so many people that specifically he talked to about this fantasy,
48:14
Speaker 1: but also just told them in kind of out of
48:20
Speaker 1: context situations like if she ever cheated on me, I
48:23
Speaker 1: would kill her.
48:24
Speaker 2: But it's not cheating if you're wanting it to happen, Right,
48:28
Speaker 2: is that what he means?
48:29
Speaker 1: Or right? But he's saying I think you know ultimately,
48:32
Speaker 1: because all this is is it's another play for control. Yeah,
48:37
Speaker 1: so as long as he's the one pulling the strings,
48:40
Speaker 1: that's fine. I can't see him being okay with it
48:44
Speaker 1: even then, though, uh, well, start picturing it. Increasingly dissatisfied
48:51
Speaker 1: in her marriage, and worried about the safety of herself
48:54
Speaker 1: and their young child, Chris. Jamie was surreptitiously looking for
48:58
Speaker 1: a way out. By September nineteen ninety, it seemed there
49:03
Speaker 1: may have been a glimmer of light, I mean something
49:07
Speaker 1: resembling what she thought was maybe a very distant, very
49:13
Speaker 1: blurry glimmer of some sort of light. Lee, a low
49:18
Speaker 1: level drug dealer that Steve had frequently attempted to push
49:22
Speaker 1: on her as a potential sexual partner for his enjoyment,
49:27
Speaker 1: was someone she'd seemingly grown a lot closer to. Both
49:33
Speaker 1: he and Jamie felt embarrassed by Steve's constant pressuring. I
49:39
Speaker 1: can't even imagine how awkward that would be. Seriously, like,
49:45
Speaker 1: dude has no chill. Yeah, he has zero point zero, zero,
49:51
Speaker 1: zero percent chill. Lee may not have been a boy scout,
49:56
Speaker 1: but he deeply disliked the abusive treatment Jamie frequently received
50:00
Speaker 1: from Steve, which is like, okay, cool, so you're about
50:05
Speaker 1: treating people like people. That's one in the column for Lee.
50:11
Speaker 2: Just because you're a drug dealer doesn't mean you're a
50:13
Speaker 2: terrible person. Well, and also I'm like okay.
50:16
Speaker 1: Well, like what kind of drugs you know right, I
50:19
Speaker 1: got a lot of follow up questions. I mean, I
50:23
Speaker 1: know that it wasn't just weed, but like, I want
50:25
Speaker 1: to just picture him as a funny weed dealer. Honestly,
50:29
Speaker 1: I kind of want to picture him as that guy,
50:32
Speaker 1: uh from that seventy show with the long hair, you know.
50:37
Speaker 1: Oh god, I can't remember that character's name. Oh, the
50:39
Speaker 1: stony the stoner guy. Yeah, the stoner guy. Leo Leo,
50:46
Speaker 1: Leo Lee. It all connects. It all connects. Now, we
50:54
Speaker 1: sound like the Stoners, well, I mean, you know AnyWho. Additionally,
51:00
Speaker 1: around this time, a close girlfriend of Jamie's who herself
51:05
Speaker 1: was about to enter a trial separation from her husband,
51:08
Speaker 1: and actually they had been pregnant at around the same time,
51:12
Speaker 1: so both of their kids were around the same age.
51:15
Speaker 1: They had really bonded through that experience. She offered her
51:20
Speaker 1: a lifeline with a place to stay, encouraging her to
51:24
Speaker 1: leave Steve. I'm sure she was. Yeah, She's like, listen,
51:28
Speaker 1: it might not be working out, it's a trial separation
51:31
Speaker 1: with my husband, but you should for suresys get the
51:33
Speaker 1: hell out of there, Steve, who hopefully he's a distant memory.
51:40
Speaker 1: Jamie set plans in motion for childcare lying to both
51:44
Speaker 1: Steve and her mother about precisely what her plans were,
51:49
Speaker 1: and she went on a date with Lee. I just
51:53
Speaker 1: feel like.
51:55
Speaker 2: There's other things that are more important than like sex
51:59
Speaker 2: and dating have and both of these people are just like.
52:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're both very young, and I think
52:08
Speaker 1: at this point in their relationship, Jamie had just been
52:12
Speaker 1: beaten down so far from where she started, that her
52:18
Speaker 1: sense of self worth and that like she would ever
52:22
Speaker 1: be able to find love again, that she was worthy.
52:27
Speaker 1: I think she needed to feel like there was someone there,
52:35
Speaker 1: like as a lifeline, and I think it's so common.
52:40
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah. In the following days, she revealed
52:47
Speaker 1: the truth to her mother. A flurry of calls came
52:51
Speaker 1: in from Steve, and this time they weren't answering. Finally,
53:01
Speaker 1: Jamie agreed to speak with him and said directly, Steve,
53:05
Speaker 1: it's over. I don't love you anymore. I want a divorce.
53:09
Speaker 1: It's over.
53:11
Speaker 3: Who like, give me chillies?
53:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I know, just like feeling how hard
53:19
Speaker 2: that I know it was for her to say.
53:22
Speaker 1: Saying it gave me chills because it.
53:25
Speaker 3: Just look at them goose pimples.
53:28
Speaker 1: I know my arms and it is hot in here
53:31
Speaker 1: because her conditioner is off. I don't think you can
53:34
Speaker 1: see mine either, but they are holy shit, every hair
53:37
Speaker 1: on my arm. Surprised as she was to hear it,
53:41
Speaker 1: Judy knew Jamie meant it. She was concerned her daughter's
53:48
Speaker 1: resolve would waiver when Jamie agreed to go meet step
53:52
Speaker 1: in person and tried to reason with her not to go.
53:56
Speaker 3: That makes sense.
54:01
Speaker 1: This is the last thing that This is the last
54:04
Speaker 1: thing that she said to her mother, at least face
54:07
Speaker 1: to face. She did speak to Jamie after this. As
54:13
Speaker 1: she walked out the door, she said, all he can
54:16
Speaker 1: do is kill me.
54:17
Speaker 3: Mom.
54:20
Speaker 1: Judy said, I'm going to give you twenty minutes and
54:24
Speaker 1: then I'm going to be down there, and they were
54:27
Speaker 1: meeting in a public place. True to her word, Judy
54:31
Speaker 1: was set to send Jamie's father, Jerry, as a call
54:34
Speaker 1: came in from Jamie that she was at her in
54:36
Speaker 1: Steve's home. So they met in a public place. But
54:40
Speaker 1: she's calling now from their home.
54:43
Speaker 3: Oh.
54:45
Speaker 1: When she'd shown up to meet him, he'd taken off
54:48
Speaker 1: with her purse. It's fucking psycho shit. So she decided
54:54
Speaker 1: to head home to pack some things for herself and
54:57
Speaker 1: Christopher knowing Steve would be there with her purse. A
55:01
Speaker 1: handful of hours went by and Jamie said she was
55:04
Speaker 1: on her way with taco time, a lunchtime ritual for
55:08
Speaker 1: the mother and daughter. Judy waited, but Jamie never showed. Strangely,
55:16
Speaker 1: the hegel phone sat silent, no follow up calls from Jamie.
55:21
Speaker 1: But almost more bizarrely was the lack of Steve's typical
55:25
Speaker 1: barrage on the line looking for Jamie because he knew
55:31
Speaker 1: that was September thirtieth, nineteen ninety and as the days
55:36
Speaker 1: wore on, Jamie's friends, family, and colleagues at Microsoft became
55:41
Speaker 1: increasingly concerned because she never showed up with taco time.
55:46
Speaker 1: Microsoft would eventually put up a reward. As flyers were
55:49
Speaker 1: circulated and many joined search efforts for Jamie. Notably, according
55:54
Speaker 1: to the recollections of many, Steve was not among the
55:58
Speaker 1: dedicated searchers. Where is he He's there? He didn't even
56:02
Speaker 1: seem interested in sharing Jamie's missing person flyers, and indeed
56:08
Speaker 1: some would be privy to the incredibly quick romantic recovery
56:12
Speaker 1: he seemingly made. Surely, no one wanted to think about
56:15
Speaker 1: discovering a body rather than Jamie safe and alive somehow. However,
56:21
Speaker 1: through the course of the investigation, various types of K
56:24
Speaker 1: nine units were used to aid the search efforts, including
56:28
Speaker 1: cadaver dogs. October fifth, a relative of Steve's discovered Jamie's car. Now,
56:36
Speaker 1: this relative had, I forget what exactly professional position, but
56:43
Speaker 1: Steve knew that this area where Jamie's car was discovered
56:50
Speaker 1: was part of his normal area for his job, whatever
56:55
Speaker 1: that was. So Jamie's car, a nineteen eighty min RX seven,
57:03
Speaker 1: was discovered near the parking lot of the Unitarian Church
57:07
Speaker 1: north of Seattle. The driver's side door was unlocked, her
57:11
Speaker 1: duffel bag tucked behind that seat, And there were some
57:15
Speaker 1: concerning findings, like there were a lot of things packed
57:20
Speaker 1: into that duffel bag, but it didn't appear to have
57:23
Speaker 1: been packed by Jamie. It didn't really make sense, hmmm.
57:29
Speaker 1: And it's hard for anybody to point to like precisely
57:34
Speaker 1: how they knew that, But they just knew that, Like
57:36
Speaker 1: she was going there to get her purse from Steve
57:39
Speaker 1: number one, and then she was going to pack up
57:42
Speaker 1: things for her and her son, and they were like
57:45
Speaker 1: none of the stuff she threw in that duffel bag
57:48
Speaker 1: allegedly made sense like kind of like a man would
57:52
Speaker 1: pack it. M hmm, yeah, like thirteen pairs of socks
57:56
Speaker 1: but no pants, or you know, vice versa.
58:00
Speaker 3: Interesting.
58:01
Speaker 1: Yeah. The afternoon of October tenth, emergency services were called
58:06
Speaker 1: to the Education Hill area of Redmond. Steve had apparently
58:10
Speaker 1: attempted suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning. They found a wedding
58:15
Speaker 1: portrait of Steve and Jamie, along with a rambling note
58:19
Speaker 1: he'd written, as well as a cordless phone. As he
58:24
Speaker 1: was helicoptered off to the hospital, things weren't looking good. Chris,
58:28
Speaker 1: their young son, had already lost a missing mother and
58:32
Speaker 1: now his father in critical condition as well. Fortunately, Steve,
58:37
Speaker 1: I mean fortunately or unfortunately, it's hard to say, but
58:41
Speaker 1: Steve had called nine one one in time so that
58:44
Speaker 1: he could be saved, so Chris wouldn't be left an orphan.
58:47
Speaker 1: After all, he called nine one one from the car
58:51
Speaker 1: while he was allegedly trying to kill himself.
58:54
Speaker 2: That's what I was gonna say, is he is this
58:55
Speaker 2: just like an act to make it seem like he's
58:59
Speaker 2: so obsese set that his wife is missing.
59:03
Speaker 1: Kind of seems like it, doesn't it, because he's not
59:05
Speaker 1: so upset that he's actually helping in the search effort.
59:09
Speaker 1: He's not so upset about her missing that he's putting
59:12
Speaker 1: up posters. Detectives went to speak with Steve at the
59:16
Speaker 1: hospital the following day, only to find he'd actually already
59:21
Speaker 1: been discharged and was actually across the street. He was
59:27
Speaker 1: sitting at a mental health center right across the street
59:30
Speaker 1: from the hospital. The detectives were met with yet another surprise.
59:35
Speaker 1: There he was with attorney Peter Mayer, a very well
59:40
Speaker 1: known criminal defense attorney in Seattle. Why it's really interesting, right,
59:46
Speaker 1: your wife goes missing, you allegedly try to kill yourself,
59:50
Speaker 1: and immediately after being discharged from this suicide attempt, you
59:57
Speaker 1: check in to a mental health facility and hire one
1:00:02
Speaker 1: of the best criminal defense attorneys in your area. Was
1:00:07
Speaker 1: he being like, did they hint that they were looking
1:00:10
Speaker 1: at him? I have to imagine he had an awareness that. Okay,
1:00:15
Speaker 1: I mean, here's the thing, though, it's weird that he
1:00:19
Speaker 1: chose that moment. Yeah, you just got out of the
1:00:23
Speaker 1: hospital for something that could have killed you, and your
1:00:28
Speaker 1: number one priority is now now retaining legal counsel, and
1:00:35
Speaker 1: not just any counsel. Listen, it's circumstantial at best.
1:00:39
Speaker 2: But it just seems odd. I could see if I
1:00:43
Speaker 2: guess if he was trying to kill himself because he
1:00:47
Speaker 2: thought that he might get pulled in for questioning or something.
1:00:52
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, You're gonna be hauled in for questioning
1:00:55
Speaker 1: because my wife is fucking missing. So and people that
1:00:59
Speaker 1: didn't kill their wife don't try to commit suicide and
1:01:03
Speaker 1: then immediately hire the best criminal defense attorney that you
1:01:07
Speaker 1: can get in a major metropolitan city.
1:01:11
Speaker 3: It's odd timing, sure.
1:01:13
Speaker 1: Is it' sus as hell? Nothing seemed to develop with
1:01:18
Speaker 1: Jamie's missing person's case. The Hagel sadly had to begin
1:01:23
Speaker 1: accepting that they may never have answers. On the bright side,
1:01:28
Speaker 1: they were awarded custody of Chris. Their attempts to hire
1:01:32
Speaker 1: pis and get answers were multiple and very costly. Finally,
1:01:39
Speaker 1: in mid nineteen ninety seven, the King County Emmy declared
1:01:44
Speaker 1: Jamie dead. It had been nearly seven years since Jamie
1:01:48
Speaker 1: had disappeared, after all, damn dude. The investigation was reinvigorated
1:01:54
Speaker 1: around this time thanks to Judy's urging when conversing at
1:01:58
Speaker 1: length with Lute James Taylor, head of Major crimes with
1:02:02
Speaker 1: the Redmond Police Department. She said they agreed it was
1:02:07
Speaker 1: time to face the fact that her daughter had certainly passed.
1:02:12
Speaker 1: And that's where I'm going to leave you for part one.
1:02:15
Speaker 3: That's so heartbreaking.
1:02:18
Speaker 2: I cannot believe. Well, I can't, I mean, I can't believe.
1:02:22
Speaker 2: But the last thing that she said to her mom
1:02:24
Speaker 2: was like, all he could do is kill me. Oh,
1:02:28
Speaker 2: and it's so true.
1:02:31
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I mean, like the worst part is
1:02:35
Speaker 1: is that she had already she had already been through
1:02:38
Speaker 1: so much with Steve, and I feel like at that
1:02:41
Speaker 1: point she was like, listen, all this left is that
1:02:45
Speaker 1: he can kill me, and like she was at her
1:02:49
Speaker 1: breaking point. She was like I'm done. I'm not doing
1:02:51
Speaker 1: this anymore, and like she'd almost rather be yeah, dead
1:02:56
Speaker 1: than than to put up.
1:02:57
Speaker 3: With it anymore.
1:02:58
Speaker 1: But to say that before, it's like she's like, Mom,
1:03:02
Speaker 1: like calmed down, and like the last thing that's going
1:03:05
Speaker 1: to do is calm your mom down.
1:03:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, girl, girl.
1:03:10
Speaker 2: And how haunting to be the mom and like have
1:03:14
Speaker 2: to hear that all the time in your head.
1:03:18
Speaker 3: That's like the.
1:03:18
Speaker 1: Last thing, Yeah, I mean, it's it's not the last
1:03:22
Speaker 1: words that she spoke to her daughter, but that was
1:03:26
Speaker 1: the last time she saw her face. Well, do you
1:03:30
Speaker 1: want to do Taro for this one or save it
1:03:32
Speaker 1: for part two? Like?
1:03:33
Speaker 3: How much longer is Part's?
1:03:36
Speaker 1: That's so crazy because I was thinking with this one
1:03:40
Speaker 1: and we don't typically do this, but I was like,
1:03:43
Speaker 1: I honestly kind of think we should wait to do
1:03:45
Speaker 1: Taro in part two. Okay, that's so weird. We read
1:03:51
Speaker 1: each other's minds all the time. I will say, if
1:03:56
Speaker 1: if you think that the wildest part of this story
1:04:01
Speaker 1: have already happened, they have not doll decapitation. Is there
1:04:06
Speaker 1: more doll decapitation? There? There are no further instances of
1:04:12
Speaker 1: dull decapitation, but there are some truly wild crimes that
1:04:18
Speaker 1: continue to be a part of our story. And without
1:04:24
Speaker 1: giving too much away, like literally up until the buzzer, like,
1:04:29
Speaker 1: we will be talking about this and additional crimes until
1:04:36
Speaker 1: the very very last sentence. Shit crime time, baby, honestly,
1:04:43
Speaker 1: you had me at Tiny Petite Woman and Taco time.
1:04:48
Speaker 1: Seriously Part two, everyone hold on to your doll heads seriously.
1:04:55
Speaker 2: Though.
1:04:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say the second half ends on slightly
1:05:01
Speaker 1: happier note.
1:05:03
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, because this one didn't end happy at all no,
1:05:08
Speaker 2: very sad, and now we don't even get a palette
1:05:11
Speaker 2: cleanser like I talked about.
1:05:13
Speaker 1: I know we did say something about that at the top,
1:05:15
Speaker 1: and I feel a little bad about that, but it
1:05:18
Speaker 1: just feels like the right thing for this one, because yeah,
1:05:22
Speaker 1: I maybe maybe this is just me, but I almost
1:05:27
Speaker 1: kind of don't want the Taro to be a dick
1:05:29
Speaker 1: and like give something away.
1:05:32
Speaker 2: Oh see, you think Taro's gonna be sneaky.
1:05:37
Speaker 1: I kind of do. I kind of do. Like I
1:05:39
Speaker 1: feel like there's Easter eggs and the Tarot readings like
1:05:43
Speaker 1: far too frequently for me to like let that happen. Yeah,
1:05:47
Speaker 1: that's it for now. We're coming back and have a
1:05:51
Speaker 1: creepy asday. See you next Tuesday Day today and we
1:05:58
Speaker 1: will be there. We will see part two Tuesday Part two.
1:06:04
Speaker 1: H Oh my god, that just reminded me. I don't
1:06:14
Speaker 1: know where it is, but I think I have it.
1:06:16
Speaker 1: I do have, like literally like a tiny doll pillow.
1:06:20
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm not kidding, it's like all that big.
1:06:24
Speaker 2: Does the doll not need it anymore because it's ben decapitated,
1:06:28
Speaker 2: so it doesn't need a pillow?
1:06:30
Speaker 1: Okay, Well,