Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / David Collinge | The Christian Reeve Podcast #319

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David Collinge | The Christian Reeve Podcast #319 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Marie
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  Podcast. Today's guest is David Collinge
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  of the Flat Pack Theatre. Welcome to the show.
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  How you doing? It's good to be here.
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  It's really, really good to be here.
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  Yeah. Let's go.
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  Yeah, it's good to finally have you here.
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  We tried to get one of one of your fellow theatre colleagues
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  on the show and it didn't quite work out.
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  And then he suggested your name and I was like, cool, all right,
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  let's do it. I want to do this, let's do it.
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  Things happen. Life has.
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  Been in the way things. Get in the way, but here we are
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  no. I, I don't know if it's just
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  something in the air. I just, I've me in the hospital.
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  We've been good friends. Yeah, we've, we've, I've been
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  visiting the hospital quite a few times recently.
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  I don't know what it is, but it's obviously, yeah.
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  But I don't know. You say it's scary, but also, I
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  don't know. I feel like as artists, we kind
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  of not ignore any sort of health issues.
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  That's the wrong idea. But we, we can kind of, I don't
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  know, feels like we made a stirred of stuff.
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  We'll kind of look at broken legs and and heart conditions
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  and go, yeah, after the show we'll sort it, you know?
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  That's too real, man. I I always just think of that
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  quote from that Rocky film where it's like he goes like if he
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  dies, he dies. I just think that I'm like, if I
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  die, I die. Like, yeah, at this point, OK,
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  Yeah, as. Long as as long as I go out in a
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  relatively funny way, that'll do, yeah.
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  Yeah, but then you don't want to get like known for that, like
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  only how you died. Yeah, I guess so.
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  Yeah, what a brilliant start to a podcast.
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  Fantastic, there you go, talking about.
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  Talking about how and when you die.
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  Funnily enough, the name of the show we're doing is called When
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  You Die. I'll plug it in somewhere, yeah.
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  Explore with us that show. Let's come on, let's go into it.
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  With you, of course. So Frederick, who is the the
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  producer and the other director as part of the show, sort of
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  wrote this play to really tackle the themes of of loss and to
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  tackle the Western views of, of dying.
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  Because here in the West, we've got a very negative view of the
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  the idea of dying in a lot of other places such as, you know,
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  Mexico, Peru, the Middle East, China, a lot of those countries
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  celebrate dying and it's a beautiful thing and it's an
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  amazing part of their culture. But for some reason we, we're
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  we're terrified of it. So Frederick wrote this play
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  that takes the concept of loss and then puts it on the idea of
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  gothic horror and sort of slice of life situational comedies.
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  I mean, you've ever seen being human?
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  Probably a long, long time. Yeah, well, Fred specifically
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  has never watched Being Human because I, I read the script and
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  he asked me to be a director for the show.
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  And I read the script and the show is about a ghost of
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  vampire, a werewolf and a zombie, all housemates.
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  Yeah, that does ring a bell, actually.
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  And it basically the exact same as ATV show.
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  And the first thing I said to him when I read the script is,
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  oh, this is really close. This is really similar to being
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  human. And he goes, I know I've never
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  watched it. Someone told me it's kind of
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  similar and I've never watched it.
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  So no one can say it's a copyright thing.
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  Dude I I remember it's the same when I did this little mini
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  YouTube series back in 2019. Carried it through into
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  2020-2021 and someone was like oh it's Split and I'm like I've
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  never seen this film. I don't, I don't know what
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  you're talking about. And they explained what it was
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  and I was like, I guess. But the difference is mine is
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  like all freehand 1 camera guys mostly talking either directly
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  to the camera or to like all the other people in his mind and
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  they're all represented with different characters where Split
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  is a bit more. There are other people in this
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  scenario watching him be him. So I don't know.
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  Yeah. Anyway, it's an interesting
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  concept. Death on in a in a, in a show
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  like, how do you how do you approach that?
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  Maybe in like a I don't know. Is it?
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  In like an entertaining way. Maybe, well, I don't know, I
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  mean, it's, it's a, it's a, it hits a hit.
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  It strikes a chord by people, doesn't it?
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  It's quite it's quite set to the topic.
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  But also theatre is entertainment, you know it, or
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  at least a form of it. And we, we still want people to
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  come and watch the show and be entertained.
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  You know, they're here to they're, they're hopefully going
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  to give us their money and we're, we're hopefully going to
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  give them the entertainment. But yeah, we we sort of, we sort
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  of looked at the concept and looked at the idea and we
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  thought trying to explain the concept of death through
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  creatures, it from stories that don't die.
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  It it makes it more manageable because it's it's taken so out
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  of context. You know, vampire can't die,
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  werewolf can't die zombie. The whole thing is that they're
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  not that they're just they're back from the dead and ghosts
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  are also come back from the dead.
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  So we had to sort of take this idea of death and just change it
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  slightly. So for the character of Devon,
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  played by the brilliant Felix Ramsden, his whole thing is
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  wanting to pass on his brilliant character.
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  He was like a, a worker for a company that got bought out by
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  Morrisons like some 30-40 years ago.
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  And he was like middle management and he got the dream
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  position that he wanted and then fell down the stairs first day
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  of the job. Yeah, it's, it's like, but so,
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  so he obviously comes back as a ghost and he's got to fill out
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  his, his life's purpose because he didn't fill out in life.
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  So he's, he's now haunting the house and trying to do his
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  life's purpose. But that that, you know, instead
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  of the concept of death for him, it's the concept of finding, you
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  know, the reason he was put on this earth.
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  And then once he's completed it, passing on and we're touching
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  difficult topics, but in a way that is digestible and hopefully
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  entertaining. I mean, it goes for every other
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  character as well. I mean, you take the the vampire
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  character, she's a she's a devout Christian.
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  That's her thing. So a, a lot of the times that
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  she wants to be able to hold a cross in her hand or, you know,
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  things like all, you know, have holy water in the house and she
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  can't. And that's a struggle for her.
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  And she also refuses to drink blood.
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  So because she refuses to drink blood, there is an element of,
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  you know, rather than the concept of dying, it's the
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  concept of, of giving up on something in yourself, like
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  losing a belief, losing faith in something, you know, which can
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  be that part of your life dying off.
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  And and, you know, there's an element of mourning to it.
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  The only character that really, really has to do with the
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  concept of death is the character of Finn, who was a
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  werewolf. And throughout the production,
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  they're slowly turning as like a sort of disease that's getting
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  worse, sort of stage by stage. And they're, they're the only
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  ones that are still alive really.
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  You know, vampires are already dead, as are zombies and ghosts.
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  But a werewolf is a human still alive.
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  And they're sort of choosing, well, do they, do they turn or
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  do they deal with the consequences, you know?
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  Was there anything that you and everyone involved in the project
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  learned about death, maybe that surprised you in the writing of
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  this this play? About death?
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  A weirdly not. We've learnt more about
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  ourselves and more about living life through this production
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  than any other. How did?
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  You learn just the value of everything and how little things
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  can change entire situations massively, how people matter in
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  every degree and level. I work in a very holistic way as
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  a director. I'm very against a lot of the
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  mainstream ideas of, of directing.
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  I don't believe that people should have to dig up their own
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  trauma to feel sad, you know, I don't that sort of thing.
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  I think it's a really toxic part of the industry and
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  unfortunately the most popular. So I try and work in a way that
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  empowers the actors through the story.
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  And then because of that, we, we learn such brilliant things
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  about ourselves, about our about each other as well.
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  You know, our axes are discovering things about
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  themselves, you know, physical things, physical changes, you
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  know, then they might have played a character for so long
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  that they start inhabiting the same traits as them or, and we
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  start to notice these things or even little mental changes that
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  the longer we build these characters friendships and these
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  characters relationships with ourselves, the more it mirrors
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  our own life. And ultimately, as a director,
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  that's what I want to mirror, to mirror life, you know?
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  Do you not think though that like if it's too similar to your
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  own life, it's not it's no longer the character anymore?
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  Because I feel like this is a big problem with with actors is
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  when they're not fully exploring this new character.
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  Like I've, I've seen it even in some of the best actors of our
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  time, like they sometimes have like these mannerisms that they
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  just carry into everything. And maybe it can't be helped.
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  I don't know. The the Ryan Reynolds effect,
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  that's what I call it. Ryan Reynolds is really, really
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  good at playing Ryan Reynolds. You know, he's sure he's he's
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  great. He's a great Deadpool and, and
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  you know, he was Green Lantern once, but you know, he, he's
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  really good at playing Ryan Reynolds, you know.
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  But that's that's more of a comment on being one-dimensional
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  actor. That's not what I mean.
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  Oh, sorry. What?
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  What do you mean? What?
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  What are you? Trying to well, well, carrying
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  like traits and mannerisms and, and certain things into every
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  single role as opposed to just kind of completely immersing
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  yourself in a new role. Like, OK, if if, say, Johnny
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  Depp plays a character, it's going to be totally different
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  from anything else he's done. Yes, I I agree with what you're
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  saying there the. Thing will be like the Ron
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  Reynolds thing is a is a good example of that because you're
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  right. Like as soon as you said that
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  there was like at least six roles that he's done that popped
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  into my head and they're all similar.
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  Like from the way he looks at people, the way he laughs, his
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  sarcasm, just everything. It's all in every single role.
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  Yeah, I'd say, like I said, I sort of don't use the
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  traditional notions of directing.
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  What do you do? Differently then.
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  Well, I don't have my actors immerse themselves.
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  I believe that if you watch an actor, sure they can be feeling
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  all of the feelings themselves, but ultimately what you're
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  watching is an actor, the feeling, the emotions of the
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  character. You're not watching the
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  character, you know. So there are there's a bit of
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  psychology that goes into the way that I work.
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  It's very anti Freudian and it's a lot to talk about in a in a
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  podcast, but to sort of give you the long and short of it, every
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  baby will always cry when it's hungry.
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  Every baby will always laugh when it's when it's when it's
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  entertained. There is something that is about
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  that and there are specific things that humans do that is
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  universal. We all laugh when we're happy
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  and cry when we're sad and we all have these basic emotions
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  and there's certain psychological tricks we can use
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  to bring those out. You know, if you ever tried that
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  thing when you were younger maybe, you know, if a sibling
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  asks you to lie down and they press on your stomach and you
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  fake a laugh and if you have your stomach pressed on, you
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  start actually genuinely laughing because your diaphragm
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  starts spasming. So you can learn to laugh,
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  really genuinely laugh by just learning to control those
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  muscles in your stomach. And even things like you can
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  learn how to cry on command without the need of emotions and
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  out the need of anything like that by going through the same
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  body processes that cause you to cry.
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  You know, I teach my actors to sort of maybe maybe they need to
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  remember a moment where they have cried, not to bring back
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  the same feelings, but to work out what their body did.
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  You know, people often they wipe their eyes, they touch their
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  face a lot and their their breathing gets quicker and
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  heavier. And then often you do the same
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  motions and people just fall straight into it.
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  It's how psychopaths do it. Funny enough, genuinely what
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  psychopaths do is they often study and watch what people do
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  emotionally and then copy it. It's the exact same process as
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  psychopaths, which I don't know if that's better or worse than
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  the the current state of acting affairs, but there you go.
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  That's my process. I, I've only ever managed to cry
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  through the use of of like audio aids.
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  So like, I'll just listen to like some super depressing shit,
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  get myself in that headspace and then push it out that way.
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  I I was awful for it for a long time.
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  I could never do it. I used to, and this is the God
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  honest truth I used to keep, you know at airports you can buy
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  like travel sized bottles of mouthwash.
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  Yeah. I used to find like the
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  strongest smelling mouthwash, like the mintiest flavour I
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  could and keep a travel size bottle in my pocket.
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  And then when I wanted to cry on a scene, I would just hold it up
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  to my eyes and the the menthol would get my eyes watering and
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  then I'd go on because I couldn't do it.
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  I couldn't find a system that works.
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  When I've found this one, it works for me, so I can't
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  complain. But that was my little trick.
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  That was my yeah. You mentioned the current state
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  of acting affairs. It's clearly you got some
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  opinions. I want to hear them.
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  What's what's your issue with modern?
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  Acting with modern acting. It's not even modern acting.
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  It's the, I'd probably say everything post everything post
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  1950. It's a long time.
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  Yeah. That's how far my opinion
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  stretched. So I I was luckily, I was lucky
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  to be classically trained. And you learn about certain
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  practitioners when you're classically trained and how they
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  work. I personally follow the work of
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  Michael Chekhov and someone who's still alive, Philippe
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  Gollier. If you ever want to look at some
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  really weird stuff, then then he's the man for it.
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  But most of the acting world follows one of two people,
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  either Lee Strasberg or Stella Adler.
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  Now Stella Adler is the lesser of two evils, but Lee Strasberg,
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  he invented what is called the method.
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  Method acting and method acting. The more you look into it, the
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  more you realise how much of A toxic and mentally destroying
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  system it is. I mean, it was all originally
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  based on a Russian, a Russian director's work, a guy called
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  Stanislauski who did the the work of naturalism to make
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  things feel natural and real. Lee Strasberg came over from
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  America into Russia and learnt the system and took it and
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  rewrote it for himself and then the method.
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  Now sure it might have worked for himself, maybe had the you
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  know, maybe he was OK with with bringing up difficult memories
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  and trauma and reliving them for for the sake of a role.
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  But that is a really harmful thing to do, especially with
• 17:57
  everyone has different life experiences.
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  You know, my, my way of bringing up my own trauma might be
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  different to, to yours, you know, and also it is it,
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  there's, there's proof that it's, I say doesn't work.
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  I in quotation works, there is proof of its ineffectiveness.
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  You watch films like Alien or, you know, some of those films
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  where you have American actors and British actors together.
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  You know, there was the bit where I can't remember the name
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  of the actor was he's playing the robot in Alien, can't
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  remember his name now. But he was a British actor.
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  And all of the American actors would go and ask him, how do you
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  do it? How do you find the way of
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  becoming a robot? And the British actor says,
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  well, I'll just take a piece of myself and I throw it away every
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  morning, you know, And slowly over time, he had this robot
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  idea. But we don't have any memories
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  about being a robot. So how do we have how?
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  That's why American actors often can't play monsters or, or
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  villains or things like that because they might not have, you
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  know, oh, well, well, in your own memory, you might not have
• 19:15
  committed an atrocity. That's why British actors always
• 19:17
  play villains. It's.
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  Interesting. Yeah, British classical
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  training, we follow a lot of other different systems, one
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  being the Russian original naturalism.
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  I mean it's. Interesting.
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  Like I I never had any formal training.
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  I just, I just jumped straight into it and I quickly realized
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  that I was following the Stanislav scheme effort or
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  Strasbourg. And what I've learned about
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  method acting over the years is that there are levels to it
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  though. So in its most extreme sense,
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  like you're spot on. It does get like a bit too far.
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  I think the whole, you know, you hear like people like Jared Leto
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  going crazy on set and sending people like dead animals in the
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  post. Well, here's the thing.
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  I don't think Jared Leto is a method actor.
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  I think he's an asshole. Yes, maybe.
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  I mean, it's hard, it's OK in our industries of, of your music
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  and acting and everything. Like you do get these
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  personalities, these people who because they get treated a
• 20:34
  certain way every single day, they expect that from everyone.
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  And a lot of people will, you know, will allow it.
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  Like, I mean, even when I do like hospitality gigs to make,
• 20:46
  make ends meet and, and I get told like, oh, we've got AVIP
• 20:49
  and we've got a celebrity and we have to treat them special.
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  I'm like, no, we don't like they, I'm going to treat them
• 20:53
  like how I treat everyone else. They're just a person to me.
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  I don't care that they're famous.
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  I don't care that you say that they're a big deal to me.
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  They're just, and like every celebrity I've ever met, it's
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  very rare that someone has that kind of special aura where
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  you're like, oh, wow. But then I've had that with
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  people that aren't famous, who aren't, you know, a big deal or
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  whatever, like, so I just have strong opinions about this.
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  And when it comes to like our industry and often the worst
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  attitudes tend to be from the people that aren't even
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  successful. They're just assholes, as you
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  say. But people that are on that top
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  tier, it's because they get told all the time that they're the
• 21:32
  greatest of all time, right? And they might have legitimately
• 21:35
  had some really good roles. Obviously I think with Jared
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  Leto in his early career, he had some some really, really good
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  performances, but. I'm also his music was great.
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  I will I will say that I do I do enjoy his music as much as his.
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  His acting I disagree with and his his stuff like that.
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  But. I just think with, with the
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  whole method acting argument, there's people I've seen who,
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  who can do it without demanding things on set, and then there's
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  other people who can't. Like I think Gary Oldman is able
• 22:10
  to switch it on and off in the moment.
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  And I've always kind of been like that.
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  Like when, when I do use method acting on set, I need a minute
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  to kind of get into it and stuff.
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  So I do need like, not necessarily space, but I, you
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  know, if people being like loud and chatting and being all
• 22:27
  annoying, I'm like, shut the fuck up kind of thing.
• 22:29
  You know, I wouldn't say it like that, but I'd be like, can I get
• 22:32
  some right? But in terms of of like weird
• 22:37
  shit, like, oh, I'm not going to eat with you guys.
• 22:39
  I'm going to dress like Abe Lincoln for the whole time I'm
• 22:43
  on set. And, you know, and I love Daniel
• 22:45
  Day Lewis, but just, I hear stories like that and it's like,
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  I don't know, I kind of, I kind of get it and I don't get it.
• 22:53
  Like it is intense. I will say that when you're when
• 22:59
  you're actually using method acting, I mean, you know, it's,
• 23:02
  it's, it's a lot like it's, you're drawing from real emotion
• 23:08
  and it's unpredictable. That's why you see actors
• 23:12
  sometimes breakdown after scenes because they're just tapping
• 23:15
  into real shit. Like it's.
• 23:16
  Yeah, I mean, I would, I would suggest I, I can't remember the
• 23:25
  name of the book. It's somewhere in this apartment
• 23:27
  that I live in. There's a book that I'll I'll
• 23:29
  suggest to you and it's a 14 page book.
• 23:34
  It's tiny, but it is genuinely, in my opinion, the, the sort of
• 23:42
  the limiter of that sort of because you're saying this,
• 23:45
  there's like levels to it. It just takes the edge off it a
• 23:50
  little bit for me, For me, I think it's, you know, I, I, I
• 23:54
  believe in prevention rather than cure in terms of something
• 23:57
  like method acting. I don't believe it.
• 23:58
  You know, it's a system people use.
• 24:00
  I just don't personally agree with it.
• 24:02
  There are other versions of it that are similar that I, I do
• 24:05
  agree with. Like I said, Stella Adler's work
• 24:09
  I think is better. Look at Alison Hodge, look at, I
• 24:19
  mean someone who is absolutely brilliant that is still around
• 24:23
  and still working even today. Peter Brook is immense and a man
• 24:31
  named Yoshida EDA, a Japanese fellow who he wrote The
• 24:37
  Invisible Actor, which is all about the method and and
• 24:41
  naturalism, but comes from the concept of not having to take up
• 24:46
  and not having to build an entire world, you know, and that
• 24:52
  often leads to people demanding the world, you know, he says.
• 24:57
  To be invisible, be an invisible actor.
• 25:00
  You know you're there, so the character can be seen, but be an
• 25:03
  invisible actor. Yeah, I mean, whenever I've
• 25:08
  looked at like different actors methods and stuff, like whatever
• 25:12
  it may be, I feel like the end result is, is kind of the key.
• 25:15
  Like one of the reasons I got into acting was that I just saw
• 25:19
  like so many people on screen and in shows.
• 25:23
  And I remember thinking like, I'm, I'm not a trained actor,
• 25:25
  but I know I can do better than that.
• 25:27
  I just, I don't buy you. I don't buy you as this person.
• 25:31
  You are like that. And to me, that in essence, is
• 25:34
  what acting is, is, is it's the difference between someone
• 25:38
  playing this person, playing this character to pretending to
• 25:42
  be this person and someone really becoming this character,
• 25:46
  you know, and everything. It's everything.
• 25:48
  It's the, the physical traits you throw into the role, eye
• 25:53
  contacts, your mannerisms, the way you say things, you know,
• 25:58
  like you, you do have to try and remove yourself as much as
• 26:03
  possible from that character. And that's difficult to do
• 26:07
  because there's just like we have natural ways of doing
• 26:11
  things, don't we, as human beings?
• 26:15
  And I think that's why I like alternative methods to, to
• 26:19
  acting because it's as humans, we, we, we, you know, we might
• 26:24
  have a million different ways of doing things.
• 26:27
  Sure, the end result is still the same.
• 26:28
  We want to fully embody this character and really give it
• 26:31
  life. But I like giving my actors
• 26:37
  options, you know, when I for, for when you die.
• 26:43
  I really sort of wanted to find what works for each actor.
• 26:48
  And they're all amazing actors. They are phenomenal.
• 26:53
  Some of the best actors I've worked with.
• 26:57
  Michael J Brand is immense. I mean, he plays a character
• 27:01
  that that doesn't make sense. There's a character in the in
• 27:06
  the play called Laszlo, and he's we don't know what he is.
• 27:11
  He's old. He's, you know, older than sort
• 27:14
  of like thousands of years old. He's been around forever.
• 27:18
  And he's just kind of, you know, this old blind, sort of like
• 27:24
  soothe speaker, you know, this, this sort of, he tells the
• 27:28
  future and he does all that sort of stuff.
• 27:34
  And obviously Michael is a brilliant guy.
• 27:37
  We work together and we found accents that are really old and
• 27:42
  really sort of like, you know, we did research into find an
• 27:45
  accent that's, you know, sort of over 3000 years old and tried
• 27:49
  that and see if that worked. And, you know, sort of how would
• 27:54
  someone who's kind of lived forever how they move back their
• 27:56
  life. And we looked at the characters
• 27:58
  blind. So we spent some time being
• 28:02
  blind as well and truly embodying that.
• 28:08
  Yeah, it's, it's crazy how an exercise like that can can
• 28:12
  really help with you. Sounds like an obvious thing to
• 28:18
  say, but like actually becoming that.
• 28:20
  Like I, I did a role once where it was unintentional, but I had
• 28:25
  to be in eye makeup for like most of the day, like 5-6 hours.
• 28:29
  So I was blind. I had to have people walk me
• 28:32
  outside to have a cigarette, walk me to the bathroom,
• 28:34
  everything. And it really humble.
• 28:37
  It was, it was depressing. I remember being like very
• 28:42
  feeling very alone and I wouldn't say scared, but just it
• 28:49
  was like quite cold and dark. And you know, I was, I was very
• 28:54
  anytime someone would come and talk to me, I felt relieved.
• 28:57
  I felt like not alone for for a minute.
• 29:01
  And it was an interesting experience, I think.
• 29:05
  Yeah, I sort of, I'd really try to come at that exercise with as
• 29:11
  much positivity as I can. And so I always involve games
• 29:18
  into whatever I do. If I had to sum up my acting
• 29:22
  style or my my directing style, it's everything is is a game.
• 29:27
  And if you ever, if you ever get the chance to speak to one of my
• 29:30
  actors, which if please do, they're all brilliant, they will
• 29:36
  say that I'm always asking them to find a game to play on the
• 29:41
  stage. That that's that's one of my
• 29:46
  things is it keep because it keeps them alive on the stage.
• 29:50
  I have an example of something I did.
• 29:53
  I was during my drama school training.
• 29:56
  I had was playing Romeo and Romeo and Juliet and one of the
• 30:03
  games as a whole cast, we hadn't told the director this.
• 30:07
  One of the games we were playing as a whole cast was to see how
• 30:12
  many times we had a piece of garlic that we found in one of
• 30:14
  the kitchens. And we said, how many times can
• 30:17
  we pass this garlic around a member of the cast as we went
• 30:20
  through without the audience noticing.
• 30:23
  And so there's a bit in the ballroom scene, we were all
• 30:25
  dancing and I slipped a piece of garlic into a woman's dress.
• 30:30
  And then sort of a bit of a war started at that point.
• 30:35
  So there's there's a fight scene with me and Mercrucio.
• 30:38
  And we must have passed that piece of garlic around maybe 7
• 30:41
  or 8 times just by, you know, someone would get punched and
• 30:46
  you'd drop it down a sleeve or what I'm noticing.
• 30:51
  And it was always, you know, sort of build this sort of like
• 30:57
  the Montagues and the Capulets. They always seem like they were
• 31:00
  on edge and step, you know, always looking at each other and
• 31:02
  always trying to find trouble because we were trying to work
• 31:05
  out who had the piece of garlic, you know, And I sort of I, I got
• 31:10
  my comeuppance for dropping a piece of garlic in a lady's
• 31:13
  dress. The, the lady playing Juliet,
• 31:19
  obviously she's laying dead. And I do the, you know, and with
• 31:21
  a kiss, I die and I go to kiss Juliet and she spits the piece
• 31:27
  of garlic into my mouth that she'd had in the whole time.
• 31:31
  And obviously, very suddenly having a piece of garlic splint
• 31:34
  spit into your mouth, I, my eyes started watering and I was like,
• 31:38
  all right, I'll use it. And I just started weeping from
• 31:42
  that because, you know, and I then I died and it was, it's one
• 31:47
  of the best reviews I've ever ever got.
• 31:52
  All because all because someone's got a piece of garlic
• 31:55
  in my mouth. And it's, it's, that's the
• 31:56
  thing. I don't want to take credit for
• 31:58
  it. It's not genius.
• 31:59
  We're playing games that keep us alive as actors.
• 32:03
  So often I tell them to, often I'll tell them during rehearsals
• 32:10
  to play a game of tag or play a game of catch with a prop, any
• 32:15
  prop, whether it's a chair or you know, anything.
• 32:19
  Just like keep yourself alive in the rehearsals because you're
• 32:22
  going to be doing the same scene over and over again and it's
• 32:24
  going to die. So you can keep yourself alive.
• 32:28
  As actors, the characters will stay alive themselves.
• 32:31
  And often then sometimes comes out, something comes out of it
• 32:33
  was really beautiful. Like I said, the garlic thing,
• 32:36
  something comes out of it. We've realised that there's a
• 32:41
  moment where we were playing a game of of tag in one of the
• 32:46
  scenes and there's one moment where one of the actors really
• 32:52
  feels cornered in the scene. And it just so happened that in
• 32:56
  the game of tag, someone was, someone was tagged and they had
• 33:03
  cornered the actor in that exact moment.
• 33:05
  And it was just like, you can't write this stuff, you know,
• 33:09
  sometimes, sometimes magical things happen and sometimes they
• 33:13
  don't. I mean, I think it helps to keep
• 33:16
  things light. I mean I always try and do that
• 33:18
  on set is keep things light, keep things fun, keep everyone
• 33:22
  invested and try and push this like collaborative process.
• 33:27
  I thought that quite works quite well.
• 33:29
  Yeah, I urge you, try this. As long as all your other actors
• 33:33
  are consenting, make their lives a misery, but but on the
• 33:39
  condition that they can make your life a misery return.
• 33:42
  And suddenly there is this magical thing that happens
• 33:45
  because one, it builds chemistry between the actors.
• 33:48
  I mean, you know, you might have to walk onto a film set and you
• 33:51
  know, and this is your this is your husband you've had for for
• 33:56
  many years. And you know, you know, each of
• 33:58
  the lovely, you know, you need to find that instantly.
• 34:01
  So as soon as you get past the barrier of humiliation, then
• 34:09
  anything is possible. You know it's you.
• 34:11
  Can you watch actors who are meant to be lovers and they
• 34:14
  barely go near each other? Like they barely give themselves
• 34:16
  a hug. And it's like, come on, you're
• 34:18
  meant to have loved each other for years.
• 34:20
  Surely you'd embrace each other. And you know, you have this.
• 34:25
  Unless there is an issue with the actor where they're not
• 34:26
  comfortable with personal space and all that, and that's
• 34:29
  completely fine. You, you have to immerse
• 34:31
  yourself something like that. Like I remember one time I did a
• 34:34
  short sort of film thing. Never got used In the end, I got
• 34:37
  all the footage and I just met this girl, just met her.
• 34:42
  And they were like, right, you have to be a couple that's been
• 34:44
  together for years. I just turned and looked to her.
• 34:48
  She looked to me and we were like, right.
• 34:50
  Let's quickly talk about. And.
• 34:54
  You know, I was like, right, Are you comfortable with her?
• 34:58
  She was like, yeah, let's, let's just go for it, you know, let's
• 35:01
  just first. And she was brilliant.
• 35:02
  She was so easy to work with. It made it so much easier.
• 35:06
  And there, look, there was a bit of attraction there as well,
• 35:09
  which I think helps. You should feed that into the
• 35:11
  role. But it's, it's, it's tough, you
• 35:15
  know, and I, I see people doing that and I'm like, look, if
• 35:17
  you're going to make this believable, you have to go all
• 35:20
  in. Yeah, you don't have to go all
• 35:22
  in. What is your opinion other
• 35:26
  you've just sort of you've an interesting question for me.
• 35:29
  What is your opinion on sort of like, do you think actors who
• 35:33
  their characters are romantically engaged?
• 35:37
  Do you think that often sparks real feelings if you're not
• 35:39
  careful or because that's something I've never
• 35:43
  experienced? I because like I said, I work on
• 35:45
  a disconnect from my characters. So coming from yourself who does
• 35:50
  work sort of through a method point of view, have you ever
• 35:57
  sort of had to be romantically involved with someone and then
• 35:59
  it the feelings sort of come through afterwards?
• 36:02
  Or. Do you think you you were always
• 36:05
  attracted to them? But it was a job, you know?
• 36:08
  What's interesting about that is I've had it a handful of times
• 36:12
  and the first few times there was definitely chemistry there.
• 36:17
  I could see myself dating them. But I was also fully aware that
• 36:21
  this is a performance of filming.
• 36:24
  You know, they are acting as much as I am.
• 36:27
  I've always, like I said, I subscribe to Stan slot of ski,
• 36:30
  so I try to like throw realness into things and I'm not
• 36:34
  necessarily like thinking about them specifically.
• 36:38
  I'm just kind of embracing the the feeling and the moment like,
• 36:42
  oh, this, this woman is touching me.
• 36:43
  Oh, I can feel this. That's nice.
• 36:47
  I like this feeling. I like, you know, if you look,
• 36:49
  if you look, if you look intensely into anyone's eyes for
• 36:53
  long enough, it starts to get very intimate.
• 36:55
  It just just does. It's just because you don't hold
• 36:59
  eye contact that long normally you look away, you know,
• 37:02
  whatever. Honestly, try it like for anyone
• 37:07
  listening, like try, try it with people just for fun, just like
• 37:11
  look intently in their eyes for a little bit.
• 37:12
  See. How it changes.
• 37:14
  I'll happily stare off the camera for a few minutes if
• 37:16
  people want to want to sort of let me, let me just sort of.
• 37:21
  It changes the energy. It really does.
• 37:31
  It's it's intense. The most recent film I did
• 37:36
  actually, there was like I, I felt like I, I don't know this
• 37:43
  for sure, but I felt like the lead actress felt a little bit
• 37:46
  uncomfortable with me, but not like in the sense that I was
• 37:51
  doing anything to make her feel uncomfortable.
• 37:53
  It's just she had a husband. And it was like, to the best of
• 37:59
  my knowledge, either the first role she's ever done or she
• 38:03
  doesn't normally act. They'll be like we we were very
• 38:09
  collaborative across the set. But like the rest of us have
• 38:12
  been doing this a long time. So I'm very, for me, I'm very
• 38:17
  comfortable just being thrown into a situation and being told
• 38:19
  right, you 2 have to like, be a romantic couple.
• 38:22
  To me, that's another day at the office.
• 38:25
  I think for for her, I could tell she was uncomfortable.
• 38:34
  Like in scenes where we had to embrace each other.
• 38:37
  Maybe I'm caressing her arms, bringing her clothes, you know,
• 38:41
  staring into her eyes. She's definitely uncomfortable.
• 38:43
  Yeah, but it was more to do with with like the personal space
• 38:49
  thing. I could tell that like anyone
• 38:51
  who isn't someone close to her, like she feels uncomfortable
• 38:54
  about that. But I do think that with acting,
• 38:58
  if you're going to do romantic roles, you have to know what
• 39:03
  you're signing up for. Don't be wrong.
• 39:05
  I think that these things should be discussed beforehand, you
• 39:08
  know, like, it shouldn't just be sprung on you.
• 39:11
  Like, oh, now we're doing a nude scene.
• 39:13
  Like no. Like.
• 39:14
  This, this gets beforehand every time.
• 39:18
  Anytime I've ever worked with an actress on set and we've done
• 39:22
  like an intimate scene, I've always spoken to them beforehand
• 39:25
  and been like, are you OK if I do this?
• 39:27
  Are you cool with this? How do you feel about this?
• 39:30
  Good example is my music video from my song Dreaming or Loving
• 39:33
  You. Yes, I've got a friend of mine
• 39:35
  that I work with to to star in it with me.
• 39:39
  And literally every scene I was like, right, here's my idea for
• 39:43
  this. Are you comfortable if I do
• 39:46
  this? And she's like, yeah, like she
• 39:49
  was so easy to work with. It was like just it it it was
• 39:53
  perfect. If you go and and watch the
• 39:55
  music video, you'll see what looks like genuine chemistry and
• 39:59
  like we got some fantastic scenes.
• 40:02
  Like a lot, a lot of like the close up shots of her in her
• 40:05
  eyes and the eye contact was perfect when we like held hands
• 40:09
  and stuff like that and caressing and stuff.
• 40:11
  It, it felt genuine. And yeah, it turned out she'd
• 40:17
  studied film before and she's like, she knew what she was
• 40:19
  doing. So it's like, ah, well, of
• 40:20
  course. There you.
• 40:21
  Go. But that that's I think the
• 40:23
  difference. I think for most actors and
• 40:26
  actresses, it is just like another day at the office.
• 40:28
  And some people are more able to jump in and out of it than
• 40:33
  others. But I think, I think going back
• 40:36
  to your original question, like I think it comes down to that if
• 40:39
  you're in a room with someone for long enough and intimate
• 40:43
  with them for long enough, things will probably happen.
• 40:46
  It's just human chemistry. Speaking of romance, in the play
• 40:54
  When You Die, directed by me, Frederick Frederick Barnes.
• 41:00
  So a big part of the story is a psychic romance.
• 41:06
  And it's always, I think it's always brilliant when you as a
• 41:11
  director sort of like, obviously you've spoken on your
• 41:16
  perspectives as a, as an actor and I share the same views, but
• 41:22
  it's so different as a director to sort of like, because you're
• 41:26
  watching it from an outside view, you're sort of going, you
• 41:29
  can see the chemistry, but how can we get the audience to see
• 41:32
  that as well? I mean, you know, sort of
• 41:38
  sharing that, that sort of awkward sort of flirtatiousness
• 41:46
  because, well, it's, it's the awkward flirtatiousness of an
• 41:50
  undead Christian and a, a werewolf.
• 41:53
  You know, it's like, it's, it's a bit odd.
• 41:56
  You know, they've both got issues with themselves that
• 42:00
  they're dealing with and that you have this little moment of
• 42:03
  chemistry. And so there's these, there's
• 42:07
  these beautiful scenes that happen.
• 42:09
  And then I'll, I'll do something stupid, like I'll say like throw
• 42:14
  in a Dick joke somewhere, you know, and I'll, I'll, you know,
• 42:17
  I'll do that to ruin the moment. Because I, I like to sort of, I
• 42:21
  don't want to give my audience everything.
• 42:23
  The whole story is kind of, we involve this, this beautiful
• 42:29
  sapphic romance. And I want to, I don't want to
• 42:33
  give the audience all of it in one go.
• 42:35
  They deserve to have little bits and then have it ruined for
• 42:37
  them. I will say, like, I I've made
• 42:41
  this know my audience knows this.
• 42:43
  I am not a fan of theatre. Never have been, really.
• 42:46
  Yeah, yeah, probably never will be.
• 42:49
  What is? It that turns you off for a bit,
• 42:51
  I'm not trying to convert you but I just want to know what is
• 42:53
  it that you just doesn't work for you.
• 42:59
  I don't like this performance. Panda into the crowd thing, it
• 43:03
  bothers me. I'm not saying that every
• 43:06
  theatre production is like that. I've I've have seen good ones.
• 43:09
  I just can't get behind it. Maybe it's because I grew up
• 43:14
  with film. And here's the thing, I know a
• 43:16
  lot about this from the historical perspective.
• 43:18
  So I know that obviously theatre acting was where acting comes
• 43:23
  from. I've said this on the show
• 43:25
  before, if you if you go and watch early film, early cinema,
• 43:30
  the all of the actors are theatre actors and they don't
• 43:33
  really know how to tone it down for.
• 43:37
  Film. Well, they say Marlon, someone
• 43:40
  like Marlon Brando, was the first real film actor.
• 43:43
  I mean, we've had films for what, some 20 years before that?
• 43:47
  But he would say they say he was the first film actor.
• 43:50
  Yeah, because that he by that point, they'd learned to sort of
• 43:53
  turn it down and, you know, mic sophistication that had had
• 44:02
  increased. So they they didn't have to do
• 44:04
  see, like you've seen so many old movies.
• 44:07
  And again, I'm repeating this now for probably the third,
• 44:09
  fourth time on the show. Go back and watch those old
• 44:11
  films and look at how many of those scenes are in like a
• 44:15
  living room or a connecting room with like a flower basket in the
• 44:19
  middle of the room. And they just walk around it and
• 44:24
  like, you know, that's where the mic is hidden.
• 44:26
  And there'll be a lot of announcing across the room,
• 44:30
  right? Because that's what you're used
• 44:31
  to as a theatre actor is you have to make yourself known.
• 44:34
  You have to be heard. You have to be constantly seen,
• 44:38
  you know? And that's what goes through my
• 44:40
  head when you were talking about that before.
• 44:41
  Because with that, with film work, you can cheat a lot of
• 44:45
  things. You can frame things to look a
• 44:48
  certain way. So much of the art is is in how
• 44:53
  something is shot. It's not just how the actor does
• 44:55
  something, but you can kind of work together to achieve and
• 44:58
  elicit certain things. But for me, I don't know, maybe
• 45:01
  it's just like seeing things a certain way.
• 45:04
  I, I just, I, I really respect the, the craft of theatre
• 45:09
  acting. I actually consider them to be
• 45:12
  two completely different disciplines.
• 45:13
  I know a lot of people will be like, oh, they're the same.
• 45:15
  I'm like, no, no, no, no. That for me it's like a specific
• 45:20
  style of acting, its own discipline.
• 45:25
  And it has like, I, I know now obviously like having training
• 45:31
  is, is important with something like that.
• 45:32
  But I know as a, as a film actor, TV actor, I couldn't just
• 45:35
  walk into theatre and do it like I, that's, it wouldn't work.
• 45:39
  I'd have to completely change everything I'm doing in order to
• 45:42
  make it work. I can.
• 45:44
  I do completely agree with you. I think admittedly I mean well
• 45:50
  it's it's due to the fact that that theatre sort of came first.
• 45:54
  Theatre acting equips you with the skills that that gives you
• 45:58
  film acting. That is by no means saying that
• 46:02
  film acting is anyway inferior I think.
• 46:05
  I think in in film acting there is so much more subtlety to
• 46:11
  everything. I mean the, the, the idea of
• 46:14
  micro expressions is from from film acting, you know, and you
• 46:21
  don't really. Capture that on stage.
• 46:23
  That's kind of the thing. It's like there's no way of
• 46:26
  honing in on that. Where's the film?
• 46:29
  There is. There are certain people that
• 46:31
  can do it, but those are people like Patrick Stewart and Serene
• 46:36
  McKellen. I was.
• 46:36
  Going to say the the the hand things he's spoken about or
• 46:39
  performed. Judi Dench and things like that.
• 46:42
  It's, it's, but they have such a master of their craft.
• 46:47
  They've been, I mean, they've been doing it all their lives.
• 46:49
  I mean, it's so interesting. I, I say recently it was 2023.
• 46:55
  I watched Surrey and McKellen play Falstaff in Henry the 4th
• 47:03
  and it was Henry the 4th Part 1 and Part 2.
• 47:06
  It was a four and a half hour show.
• 47:08
  Jeez. And you're watching him and
• 47:11
  he's, he's pushing 90, you know, and you're watching him and he's
• 47:16
  got more energy and more, what's the word that I'm looking for
• 47:24
  now? He's got more stamina than some
• 47:28
  of these actors that are fresh out of drama school. 20
• 47:30
  something, you know, And I think that's insane.
• 47:33
  I think that's what theatre gives you because theatre isn't
• 47:35
  for me. Theatre is a marathon and.
• 47:39
  Well, it's it's why you get into something though, isn't it?
• 47:42
  Like. But film is a Sprint because I,
• 47:46
  I mean, I, that's my opinion. That's my, I mean in terms of
• 47:53
  the acting process alone, don't be wrong.
• 47:56
  The full process of making a film is a complete slog.
• 48:03
  I do not envy film makers, you know, I think they are some of
• 48:09
  the most hard working people on the planet.
• 48:11
  And I don't, I don't have the time for it.
• 48:13
  I really don't. I want to spend 4 weeks in a
• 48:15
  rehearsal room and push out a theatre show.
• 48:17
  I don't have the time to do pre production and editing and even
• 48:22
  cinematography. I know nothing about
• 48:23
  cinematography. I know my audience is that way
• 48:27
  and that's all I know and that's all I need to know.
• 48:29
  And there's a beauty for that. But yeah, I, I, before I was a,
• 48:34
  a theatre actor, I was a stunt actor for films.
• 48:39
  That was my thing. So I guess I've had a little bit
• 48:41
  of both worlds. But that would be, you know, I,
• 48:43
  I'd turn up to set, I'd get beaten up and then I'd reset and
• 48:46
  I get beaten up and I've reset. And it's that sort of like you
• 48:49
  push everything into a take and then you take a breath and you
• 48:54
  push everything into a take and then you take a breath.
• 48:56
  But the camera captures everything that even you know,
• 48:59
  the the micro expressions and the every like every single
• 49:04
  little thing you know. I was on the set of I was on the
• 49:10
  set of the Batman film 2022 Batman Rod Pattinson.
• 49:15
  And that was a brilliant shoot. I played one of the Riddler's
• 49:18
  goons during the end of the film game beaten up by Rod Pattinson
• 49:24
  is is sits firmly in My Portfolio.
• 49:28
  It's often the first thing I say when I walk through the door,
• 49:31
  not even to a casting agent, just to like friends and family
• 49:34
  to gloat. But But yeah, no, that was, that
• 49:40
  was an interesting shoot because that was they, they had
• 49:44
  surprisingly long takes for a lot of that, a lot of that
• 49:47
  shoot. Action films are so boring to
• 49:50
  watch being filmed. I've I've been part of films
• 49:52
  like that and it's the process is cool.
• 49:56
  But yeah, seeing the 40th take of something is like, for fuck
• 49:59
  sake, yeah. I have I have a few friends that
• 50:01
  have worked on 19/17. They played played some German
• 50:07
  soldiers in 1917 and they said watching them as a different
• 50:12
  story, that feel because that's that's the what they said.
• 50:16
  It's the worst of both worlds because it is the the slog of
• 50:22
  theatre acting where you're in it for hours and hours and
• 50:25
  hours. And also that all the
• 50:29
  difficulties that filmmaking brings of like cheating scenes
• 50:32
  and setting up areas and that was all.
• 50:34
  It was all meant to look like one take in 1917.
• 50:37
  And they'd film for for hours on end.
• 50:42
  Not just scene for scene, but sort of they go through maybe
• 50:44
  1/3 of the entire film in a single take and you've got to be
• 50:49
  in it and do it and it you're not in a cushy little rehearsal
• 50:53
  room with air conditioning, you're out in.
• 50:55
  They filmed it in Normandy in in the winter and it was cold and
• 51:00
  it was awful and everyone was depressed.
• 51:02
  It was like, but they made something utterly brilliant.
• 51:06
  I mean that film is is a. Masterpiece.
• 51:10
  There it goes. I mean, it's the sacrifice for
• 51:12
  the art really, isn't it? Like anytime I go on set or
• 51:16
  anytime I get to be part of anything, I, I throw myself into
• 51:20
  it completely. And I, I think that This is why
• 51:23
  I have a respect for theatre. Like despite me not personally
• 51:28
  enjoying it, I respect it and always will.
• 51:31
  Because for me the three disciplines are acting like film
• 51:35
  acting, theatre acting, voice acting, and they were all
• 51:40
  completely different and they will require different things,
• 51:42
  but there are qualities within each that all of the disciplines
• 51:47
  require. Like they all, it's where there
• 51:50
  is crossover. But I have noticed that a lot of
• 51:53
  people have got into the industry and they just care
• 51:58
  about like whatever, like money, fame, they don't, they don't
• 52:02
  really like take it serious. Like I remember seeing an old
• 52:08
  clip of Christopher Lee talking about his experiences in his
• 52:11
  later years. And he said that like too many
• 52:13
  of the younger actors coming through are like just all they
• 52:16
  care about is being seen by the camera.
• 52:18
  Like where where is my face on the camera?
• 52:19
  And it's like you're not acting, you're just, you just care about
• 52:24
  that, which like the camera will catch you.
• 52:26
  Don't worry. Like, focus on your craft, focus
• 52:28
  on being the best you can be, you know?
• 52:31
  But also, Christopher Lee was was nuts.
• 52:35
  Sure. I mean, yeah.
• 52:36
  I mean, he's, he's he's a man that needs to feel about him,
• 52:40
  just in general, you know. I mean, do you know, do you know
• 52:44
  much about Christopher Lee's life?
• 52:45
  I know he was. I know that he was in a heavy
• 52:48
  metal band in his later years. I know that he, I think he'd
• 52:54
  even had actually been stabbed in in his earlier years.
• 53:00
  So he knew it what it was like he already seen someone have a
• 53:04
  sword phone through their back. So he explained that to Peter
• 53:06
  Jackson one time. He's one of the founding members
• 53:09
  of the SAS. They know that.
• 53:12
  Jesus, yeah. He was part of the SAS in World
• 53:15
  War 2. Part of.
• 53:16
  Counterintelligence. And he was like an actual like,
• 53:20
  he's probably the closest thing to James Bond that we have.
• 53:24
  Like he's suave. He's, you know, he was, he was a
• 53:30
  member of the military. He also has changed our
• 53:33
  perceptions on horror. He was, he played the first, he
• 53:36
  played Dracula. You know he is.
• 53:39
  Dracula. I loved him in The Wicker Man.
• 53:42
  I have to say I thought that was phenomenal.
• 53:46
  And then, you know, he has the balls to go to a piece of
• 53:47
  Jackson and go. Have you ever been stamped,
• 53:49
  Peter? Let me explain how it goes.
• 53:50
  You know, really sort of like, you know, using classical sword
• 53:54
  fighting training in Star Wars, you know, and all that sort of
• 53:59
  jazz. It's like the men was immense.
• 54:02
  He used to know a film about him.
• 54:04
  And there's there's a few people.
• 54:06
  I've got a list of people that deserve films for themselves.
• 54:09
  One of them is Christopher Lee. Who else?
• 54:12
  Ernest Hemingway, because his life was insane.
• 54:20
  You know, imagine Christopher Lee's life, just 10 times more
• 54:23
  interesting. And the other had already been
• 54:32
  made. It was Serena Williams's father.
• 54:39
  I'm not a massive tennis fan. I just knew a lot of things
• 54:41
  about how strange his sort of life was and how hard people
• 54:47
  push for for things not for themselves, but for their for
• 54:50
  their family. And I sort of, I respected that.
• 54:55
  I think a film on on the Jackson family would be pretty
• 54:58
  interesting. I know they're doing a Michael
• 55:00
  Jackson one, but I think specifically the Jackson family,
• 55:02
  I think there's a lot. Wasn't there a Jackson family
• 55:05
  film? Wasn't there a OR?
• 55:06
  Unless I'm misremembering, it might have been part of a
• 55:09
  Michael Jackson thing. I just I'd like to know about
• 55:13
  like, you know, like how he pushed them of like on stage
• 55:17
  from a young age, the father and.
• 55:19
  To the limit he'd have. Really sort.
• 55:21
  Of throw them out there. Obviously like the how big they
• 55:24
  became, how huge they were then that would be quite interesting.
• 55:29
  Yeah, yeah. That'd be very interesting.
• 55:36
  I don't know. Is there anything you'd sort of
• 55:37
  like you'd want to because you know, I can see the guitar in
• 55:42
  the back and you know, I'm going to pretend that I've not looked
• 55:47
  into any of your work and say I'm assuming you're a musician
• 55:49
  as well as a as well a performer judging by the music videos and
• 55:54
  stuff like that. You know, do you think there's
• 55:59
  any sort of like, I'm sorry, my brain is not working at the
• 56:03
  minute. I'm trying to pull this question
• 56:05
  in for you between sort of like music and performing do.
• 56:12
  Is there any sort of like similarities between that?
• 56:17
  Are there any sort of different parts where the world sort of
• 56:19
  collide a bit, excluding things like music videos?
• 56:22
  Because you know you could, you can act in a music video, but
• 56:25
  sort. Of like.
• 56:26
  The process I guess. When you're on stage, when
• 56:29
  you're performing and you learn to let go and just truly live in
• 56:36
  the moment, feel, feel, don't think, just feel.
• 56:39
  That is the same as acting. When you let go and you and you
• 56:44
  feel the role, when you really feel the emotions, it's the same
• 56:48
  exact feeling. It's one of the reasons why I
• 56:50
  became an actor was because I recognized like, oh, this is
• 56:54
  like being a musician. It's not the same, but it's it's
• 56:58
  similar feeling. Well, for being a musician, is
• 57:02
  it still, I imagine obviously, you know, you'll be sort of
• 57:05
  you're embracing the character, but as a musician, is it, is it
• 57:08
  still you or are you just part of the music at that point?
• 57:11
  You're just the energy and the atmosphere and and that like.
• 57:15
  Ironically, I think it's like the, the conversation we've had
• 57:18
  earlier where every person's a bit different.
• 57:21
  Like some, some people are playing a character.
• 57:24
  If you look at someone like say Lady Lady Gaga, that's a
• 57:27
  character. She's playing characters.
• 57:30
  If you look at someone like, I don't know, Louis Capaldi,
• 57:35
  that's, that's just the guy singing, singing his heart out,
• 57:38
  you know, and laying it all out on the line.
• 57:41
  I guess what I've been told about my singing is that it's
• 57:49
  very like passionate, like it's like I throw myself into it.
• 57:53
  And for me, I don't know any different.
• 57:55
  I yeah, I think if you're going to sing about heartbreak, like,
• 57:59
  you should really sing, you know, same with, with acting.
• 58:03
  Like if there's a scene and, and, you know, it's a breakup
• 58:08
  scene, I need to believe that you're really breaking up.
• 58:10
  You know, you can't just be like, oh, I'm so sad.
• 58:12
  This is awful. It's like you'd be, you'd be
• 58:15
  devastated. You'd be just silly, emotional,
• 58:20
  reckless, whatever. Like you know, you throw logic
• 58:24
  out the window I guess is is what I'm saying you do.
• 58:27
  Throw logic out the window. You really do.
• 58:29
  But short answer, yes there is crossover, but I guess it
• 58:32
  depends on what type of musician you are and what you're trying
• 58:37
  to achieve with it. Yeah, because I'm sort of, I'm
• 58:41
  now sort of dipping my toes into music.
• 58:44
  Cool. I played jazz.
• 58:48
  No, I no, I, I So I, I studied jazz piano for I've stood up for
• 58:57
  years. That was just something I did
• 58:58
  for myself. But I, I'm now sort of exploring
• 59:02
  other means. I've recently, so my, my
• 59:08
  partner's left-handed, my, my boyfriend Benjamin, who's
• 59:12
  wonderful, he's left-handed and he's, he's recently realised he
• 59:18
  plays better in a right-handed guitar, even though he's
• 59:21
  left-handed. So he, he bought a new guitar, a
• 59:25
  right-handed guitar recently and I did the Jimi Hendrix thing of
• 59:29
  re stringing the left-handed guitar right-handed.
• 59:34
  And I've, I've got it. It's currently sat over there on
• 59:37
  the other side of the room, but I'm now learning how to play a
• 59:41
  right-handed left-handed guitar. That's such a mind fuck.
• 59:47
  You know, it's exactly the same the, you know, the whammy bars
• 59:50
  the wrong way round and the, the the sort of, the pickups are in
• 59:54
  a bit of a weird place on where your hand is.
• 59:57
  But it's no different from a guitar.
• 1:00:01
  And it's as I know I like the weird stuff.
• 1:00:07
  I wouldn't be doing a play about zombies and vampires and
• 1:00:10
  werewolves if I didn't enjoy the weird stuff.
• 1:00:13
  I enjoy the weird stuff, you know, you know, stringing guitar
• 1:00:19
  the opposite way around just because it, and it makes a
• 1:00:21
  different sound and it sounds, you know, it sounds different.
• 1:00:24
  It pick ups differently. I like doing the odd plays.
• 1:00:28
  I've got a casting call soon enough where I'll be playing a,
• 1:00:33
  a zombie now, you know, those sort of crappy sort of American
• 1:00:36
  bee movies that were like the zombie apocalypse happening and
• 1:00:42
  Adolf Hitler's at the at the heart of it.
• 1:00:44
  You know, it's the exact same concept, but the, the main
• 1:00:47
  feeling is Margaret Thatcher. I just think that's brilliant.
• 1:00:51
  And I saw the casting call on Spotlight and I was like, yeah,
• 1:00:54
  I'm doing that. And we're auditioning for that
• 1:00:57
  because that is, that is hilarious.
• 1:00:58
  Even if it's awful, I want to do it.
• 1:01:01
  I want to see zombie Margaret Thatcher do.
• 1:01:03
  You struggle as a director going into a play that isn't yours and
• 1:01:08
  performing. In what sense?
• 1:01:13
  Like an like an ownership point of view or?
• 1:01:15
  Well, you just, you have 0 control, you know you're being
• 1:01:18
  told what to do as opposed to having control or at least
• 1:01:21
  influence in how things go. But.
• 1:01:25
  So as well as a director to a play that isn't mine, or as an
• 1:01:29
  actor to a play that isn't mine. It doesn't make a difference.
• 1:01:33
  I mean, if you're, if you're an actor going, oh, I see what
• 1:01:37
  you're saying now. Because because so I didn't
• 1:01:39
  write when you die. That is entirely, you know, Fred
• 1:01:43
  wrote it and is producing it and is putting.
• 1:01:46
  That's collaboration, Yeah, I guess.
• 1:01:48
  I mean an actor going into a play.
• 1:01:51
  As an actor going into a play, I, well, I, I had a, a brilliant
• 1:01:57
  direct friend of mine, a great man called Bill Hopkinson, a
• 1:02:01
  real giant in the industry. He said to me because like, I
• 1:02:08
  asked him the same problem, you know, I said, sometimes I work
• 1:02:12
  with directors and I feel like I've got no ownership of this.
• 1:02:14
  I feel like I'm, I'm giving him this character.
• 1:02:17
  I'm giving this thing and it feels like he, I wasn't, you
• 1:02:21
  know, I had my problems anyway. And he turned around and he told
• 1:02:24
  me that it is the the freedom of the actor to bring the character
• 1:02:33
  whichever way they want. It's the director's job to guide
• 1:02:36
  them to fit the vision. And I've lived there and you,
• 1:02:43
  sometimes you work with directors and they sort of they
• 1:02:47
  kind of lock you down into one box.
• 1:02:50
  But it's your, your freedom. There is then whatever little
• 1:02:54
  holes in that box there are is is you can play your freedom to
• 1:02:57
  that. I think the director decides the
• 1:03:01
  freedom level. Like I've had directors who've
• 1:03:03
  been made it clear they don't want any input from me.
• 1:03:06
  And like, I'm the sort of guy that I'll come on, Sarah, I'll
• 1:03:09
  come into the production and I will do my thing.
• 1:03:14
  I will listen to what you're saying and try to make that
• 1:03:17
  happen. But I'll be like, OK, but what
• 1:03:19
  if we try this or I have this idea we do this or I hear what
• 1:03:23
  you're saying, but what about this?
• 1:03:24
  So that, that, that's, that's how I work a lot.
• 1:03:26
  I'm, I often try and treat my actors as, as directors
• 1:03:30
  themselves because they have autonomy of things.
• 1:03:33
  I mean, they're the ones making a character.
• 1:03:36
  I've also been told that it it's the actor's job is to what's the
• 1:03:43
  right word to to just to give and keep giving.
• 1:03:49
  They they give you a character idea and then it's the
• 1:03:51
  director's job to to see that thing that you're being given
• 1:03:54
  and, and either use it or throw it away and after something
• 1:03:56
  else. Like I said, some.
• 1:03:57
  Director yeah, I get that. You know, OK, it's not my job
• 1:04:02
  to, as an actor, to fit this character into the world and fit
• 1:04:07
  them into a scene and work out how they're going to work.
• 1:04:09
  I can just go listen, you know, as one of the actors, actually
• 1:04:15
  Michael Brand. Michael J Brand, he says, you
• 1:04:20
  know, I am like strawberry ice cream.
• 1:04:22
  You know, if that's the flavour you want, here I am, that's my
• 1:04:24
  flavour. Do you want chocolate ice cream
• 1:04:26
  or caramel or whatever, vanilla. I don't, you know, that's not
• 1:04:29
  me. But as an actor, what I, what
• 1:04:31
  flavour I can give you is strawberry ice cream.
• 1:04:33
  And I can give you that really, really well.
• 1:04:36
  OK, but this is an interesting point.
• 1:04:39
  Can do you not? Does a director not deserve
• 1:04:43
  adaptable actors? Is that not the whole point?
• 1:04:45
  If you just come and you go, I've got this one idea and it's
• 1:04:47
  like, well, I don't like your idea, then it's like, well, I
• 1:04:49
  should find someone else then, shouldn't I of?
• 1:04:51
  Of course, but I think what I mean is from like, not as a
• 1:04:55
  character, as an actor. I'm saying like here are the
• 1:04:58
  skills that I have, I'm going to show like I'm like as an actor,
• 1:05:05
  I have a tool kit of different techniques.
• 1:05:08
  I I guess as. What?
• 1:05:11
  OK, OK, I'll add to this as well.
• 1:05:13
  If it's like, because this is the whole point of auditioning
• 1:05:17
  and and reviewing someone, isn't it?
• 1:05:19
  Like you look at what they've got, what they've got to offer?
• 1:05:22
  So if you're giving me this idea, you've got and I don't
• 1:05:25
  like it, but I know that you can do more than that and I want you
• 1:05:28
  to do this other thing that I want.
• 1:05:31
  Then yeah, go for it. Yeah, that's what that's what
• 1:05:33
  I'm saying. It's like if, if the if the
• 1:05:35
  actors like, well, this is what I do.
• 1:05:37
  And it's like, yeah, but I know you can do this, so give me
• 1:05:40
  this. Yeah, no, yeah.
• 1:05:44
  I think as long as an actor goes out there and goes, here's the
• 1:05:46
  skills that I have and here's what I can do for you.
• 1:05:52
  If a director sees something new and they both discover something
• 1:05:56
  new, that's a beautiful thing. I'm not saying don't do that.
• 1:06:00
  I think what I'm saying is I do appreciate directors that lock
• 1:06:05
  you in a box. That's what.
• 1:06:08
  I'm saying, and I always try and avoid that with with my actors,
• 1:06:12
  especially because I know I know what it's like.
• 1:06:16
  You know, I often this is how this is like I said, I've said
• 1:06:21
  through this entire podcast that I work in a strange way.
• 1:06:24
  This is how it's sort of strange.
• 1:06:26
  I work. I, I'll often tell my actors to
• 1:06:32
  not explain to me anything. Just just do it.
• 1:06:37
  Just let me see it. Because what I don't, I don't,
• 1:06:40
  what I don't want you to do is for you to tell me your ideas.
• 1:06:43
  Because if you tell me ideas, I'm going to get a bigger
• 1:06:45
  picture as a director, I'm going to start having bigger pictures.
• 1:06:47
  I never seen it on stage and it's different and it's going
• 1:06:51
  to, it's going to ruin my big picture.
• 1:06:53
  So I'll, I'll say, don't tell me anything.
• 1:06:56
  If you want to change something, do it.
• 1:06:58
  I don't want you to give me any warning.
• 1:07:00
  You know, if for whatever reason during a scene you get the urge
• 1:07:04
  to flip a table, don't tell me you're going to do it.
• 1:07:07
  Just do it in the scene. And you know, First things
• 1:07:09
  first. It, it catches every other actor
• 1:07:12
  off guard and it makes all their reactions truly genuine.
• 1:07:17
  And two, when I direct, I sit there and I watch it from an
• 1:07:22
  audience's perspective and I think, how are the, how is an
• 1:07:26
  how is an audience going to see this?
• 1:07:27
  So if something new happens and everyone's reaction is raw and
• 1:07:30
  real, I'm like, wow, amazing, great.
• 1:07:33
  My you know, they're doing their job for me.
• 1:07:36
  Yeah, I mean, sounds like there's a lot of room for
• 1:07:39
  improvisation in in what you do, which is I'm big on that in my
• 1:07:43
  acting. I think it's important.
• 1:07:45
  We improvise and we collaborate and then I am there to tweak,
• 1:07:53
  I'm there to add detail. The, their, their work is their
• 1:07:59
  work. I think, you know, I've had no
• 1:08:02
  hand in any of the, the actors characters, you know, like I
• 1:08:11
  said, the the cast of When You Die, they're amazing.
• 1:08:14
  Like I said, they've put all the work in for their characters.
• 1:08:18
  Sure, Fred stole the writing and the writing's brilliant and it
• 1:08:21
  it's the thing that sparks the the characters to life, but
• 1:08:26
  they've done all the work on the characters.
• 1:08:31
  I have an opinion on on this, and I don't know if you'll agree
• 1:08:33
  with me or disagree with me. And it's the best books are
• 1:08:38
  books that allow you to imagine the world in your heads, of
• 1:08:42
  course. And my opinion, acting is the
• 1:08:46
  best, the best theatre or the best films allow you to see that
• 1:08:57
  world for the for yourself. You know, they're really sort of
• 1:09:01
  like they, they dare to share their human emotion and you get
• 1:09:07
  to see that. You know, I don't think it's the
• 1:09:10
  job of the actor to sort of like feel all this emotion and, and
• 1:09:17
  have it. Of course you get lost in it.
• 1:09:22
  But what what I mean is, we shouldn't be selfish as actors.
• 1:09:26
  No. Because it is the job of the
• 1:09:29
  audience to to see that and feel that.
• 1:09:31
  I will say actually you raise a really good point.
• 1:09:34
  I I see acting on set and theatre as being a lot like a
• 1:09:39
  football match. If you've got a a selfish actor
• 1:09:44
  or a selfish member of the team, it will just ruin the whole
• 1:09:50
  production, yeah. It really ruins it.
• 1:09:52
  No, we're supposed to work together to get the best out of
• 1:09:56
  each other. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:09:57
  I think the, I think the writers, the writers write
• 1:10:02
  amazing dialogue for for us as actors.
• 1:10:09
  The actors, they are like instruments, you know, we, we
• 1:10:14
  play and we make cool noises and we do funny stuff and the
• 1:10:19
  director shapes that and composes that into, into the
• 1:10:23
  production. Oh, you disappeared for a
• 1:10:27
  second. You're good.
• 1:10:28
  Yeah, all good, all good that way you were.
• 1:10:30
  Yeah. And we sort of we, we, you know,
• 1:10:33
  with the help of a director almost acting like a composer,
• 1:10:36
  sort of like build this Symphony of a film.
• 1:10:38
  And then the editors hone it in and sort out the queues and sort
• 1:10:46
  of, you know, make sure that it's all condensed, right, and
• 1:10:50
  sounds nice and then send it off for people to enjoy.
• 1:10:55
  It's a full team. It's a full team process.
• 1:10:57
  And I think if there's there's selfishness involved, then it
• 1:11:00
  ruins it. Tell me about your your your
• 1:11:04
  theatre group, Flat Pack Theatre.
• 1:11:06
  How did it come to be? What's it about?
• 1:11:08
  Where's the name from Flat Pack? Theatre.
• 1:11:10
  So funny enough I'm not the best person talked about that.
• 1:11:17
  So I wasn't involved in the creation of Flat Pack Theatre.
• 1:11:20
  It was developed originally by Frederick Torrance and Felix
• 1:11:24
  Remsden who are the Co founders and it started out while they
• 1:11:30
  were in university. They started out with a play
• 1:11:33
  called 2 1/2 Shots, which was how Fred Fred wrote a play deal
• 1:11:37
  with alcoholism. He wrote 2 1/2 shots.
• 1:11:43
  Felix, who is sorry, my phone's gone off.
• 1:11:46
  It's annoying me. Felix who He's also brilliant.
• 1:11:50
  He's more of a cinematographer and he now runs Flat Pack Media,
• 1:11:56
  which is the sort of like the the media side of the theatre
• 1:11:59
  company. There was a production they did
• 1:12:03
  called Point of Theatre last year and I was involved in that.
• 1:12:08
  And I've known Fred for a long time.
• 1:12:10
  We've been friends since we were both 16.
• 1:12:16
  And, but we did our own thing, you know, we, we both left
• 1:12:19
  college and, and he went off and did his own work and, and went
• 1:12:26
  to university. I went to drama school, did sort
• 1:12:29
  of traditional training. We ended up just meeting by
• 1:12:31
  chance and collaborating on this show, Pyton Theatre, where I was
• 1:12:34
  an actor in it and then he asked me to come back to do when You
• 1:12:39
  die. And I've just sort of like, I
• 1:12:44
  mean, I love that theatre complete a bit.
• 1:12:46
  It's gorgeous. So any chance I have to sort of
• 1:12:49
  collaborate is better. So I oddly it's, it's I can only
• 1:12:56
  tell you what I can see from an outsider because I, you know, as
• 1:13:01
  much as I work with him quite heavily, I wouldn't say I am
• 1:13:05
  part of that theatre company. You know, I come and I go when I
• 1:13:10
  please. But Felix and Fred are, you
• 1:13:15
  know, excuse my French, but they are a pair of ambitious
• 1:13:18
  motherfuckers, you know, and you need people like that, you
• 1:13:22
  really do. It's people like that that
• 1:13:24
  empower you to to put the work in, you know, they have some big
• 1:13:30
  plans. I mean, they, this is year 2, I
• 1:13:34
  believe of their five year road map that ends with them, you
• 1:13:39
  know, hopefully, you know, performing at Edinburgh Fringe
• 1:13:42
  and the Royal Exchange and doing stuff.
• 1:13:44
  And you know what, since last year they've, they've worked on
• 1:13:48
  it. I mean, we're doing Manchester
• 1:13:50
  Fringe, you know, from this theatre company sort of being
• 1:13:54
  set up during, when they were in university and, and they're,
• 1:13:58
  they're ambitious and they're crazy, you know, and it's, it's
• 1:14:04
  people like that that changed the world.
• 1:14:07
  Flat Pack Theatre, the name, I honestly could not tell you why
• 1:14:12
  the name Flat Pack Theatre. I think it sounds brilliant.
• 1:14:14
  I think it's an excellent name, you know, but I, I generally
• 1:14:19
  have no idea. And you know, let's just let's,
• 1:14:23
  you know, we could sit here and make it up ourselves.
• 1:14:25
  Hell, I could, you know, it'll be funny.
• 1:14:28
  Give me one moment. I'm going to see if I can get
• 1:14:33
  hold of Fred on the phone and see if you'll tell me why.
• 1:14:37
  This is this will be a first on my show, a live call in the
• 1:14:41
  middle of a podcast. That's it.
• 1:14:42
  Let me so I can get hold of it. I think.
• 1:14:45
  Is he in work? That is the question.
• 1:14:47
  I don't want to be calling and using work or do I?
• 1:14:50
  That'll be quite funny. Yeah, let's do it there we.
• 1:14:58
  Go. I've got him on the CV answers.
• 1:15:05
  He might not, he might. He might have some choice words
• 1:15:09
  to say. Oh, he's unavailable to join.
• 1:15:14
  Oh well, I'm going to. We tried, we tried.
• 1:15:17
  Hi. Mate, it's David.
• 1:15:20
  I just wanted to ask why the name Flat Pack Theatre?
• 1:15:25
  It's we're currently still recording the podcast.
• 1:15:28
  It's going very, very well. I've told everyone how amazing
• 1:15:31
  and how, how handsome you are. But yeah, something I don't
• 1:15:37
  actually know is is why why they're in flat pack theatre.
• 1:15:40
  I don't know that. Thanks mate.
• 1:15:46
  Yeah, I'll send that off to him. Maybe it will get a response.
• 1:15:50
  We'll see how it goes, but no, genuinely, I have no idea why
• 1:15:52
  it's called flat pack theatre. So a couple of I've got a couple
• 1:15:58
  of final questions for you to rally things off.
• 1:16:02
  You are forklift certified. How difficult was it?
• 1:16:05
  It was actually. It was really difficult.
• 1:16:14
  Yeah, yeah. No, I, I, I wish I was.
• 1:16:17
  I am forklift certified. That is, I'm telling the genuine
• 1:16:20
  God honest truth. So before I was, so I'll tell
• 1:16:26
  you the story. So over COVID I, we just
• 1:16:34
  finished shooting The Batman because The Batman was filmed
• 1:16:37
  over COVID. It's only in Liverpool, which I
• 1:16:40
  think it's funny because when you think of Gotham City, a
• 1:16:42
  crime ridden city, you think of Liverpool.
• 1:16:45
  So we filmed in Liverpool. That was brilliant.
• 1:16:48
  But after that I was, I wasn't working because everyone's
• 1:16:51
  getting furloughed and obviously it was the height of the
• 1:16:53
  lockdown. So I was like, right, I'll get a
• 1:16:56
  job that's like crucial. So I, I got a job in a warehouse
• 1:17:03
  and I got, I did my forklift training there in a warehouse.
• 1:17:07
  And I thought, yes, this is me. I'm, I was, I was, you know, it
• 1:17:10
  was a really, really important job.
• 1:17:11
  I was like shipping PPE from warehouses into trucks.
• 1:17:14
  It was really important job and then I got furloughed for that.
• 1:17:17
  So I never even I have my license somewhere in one of
• 1:17:21
  these, you know, somewhere in my wallet somewhere that shows that
• 1:17:23
  I'm forklift certified mate. And I've never what was.
• 1:17:26
  The reason, what was the reason you got furloughed for that?
• 1:17:28
  Since it was actually in like a essential job?
• 1:17:32
  What's the deal there? Pardon.
• 1:17:34
  How come you got furloughed for that?
• 1:17:38
  I they're apparently they didn't need as many staff to run the
• 1:17:42
  place. No, OK.
• 1:17:44
  Because, well, basically they didn't, the government were
• 1:17:47
  paying furlough and the company was delivering PPE wasn't
• 1:17:50
  getting enough money. So they said, oh, we'll just
• 1:17:54
  give you off to the government to be a problem to them.
• 1:17:59
  Yeah, most of my COVID time was, was spent looking for work
• 1:18:06
  because I've, I've got, I've got ADHD, I'm getting very bored
• 1:18:09
  very easily. But no, that's the reason I'm
• 1:18:12
  focused certified because this because of COVID.
• 1:18:17
  Yeah, there you go. Now.
• 1:18:19
  Now we know. Thanks for sharing.
• 1:18:20
  What's it like being a cat, Dad? Oh great.
• 1:18:25
  She's great she's wonderful. She's wonderful.
• 1:18:29
  This is Bronte. She's currently staring at me
• 1:18:33
  and I've I've put her down now, but she's looking at me amazing,
• 1:18:36
  sweetheart. She called Emily, she called
• 1:18:38
  Bronte because my partner was reading Emily Bronte at the time
• 1:18:45
  of which we got her. It was a complete fluke.
• 1:18:47
  We were not expecting to get this cat.
• 1:18:51
  But one of my friends was, was, was on their way to a cat in, in
• 1:18:59
  Bootle, which is not far from Liverpool.
• 1:19:02
  And as a joke, we had said to my friend, oh, if she'd got a
• 1:19:07
  sister, she's picking up a kitten.
• 1:19:09
  And she went, yeah, £40 and you can have her.
• 1:19:13
  So for best 40 lbs ever spent. We, we had her from when she was
• 1:19:16
  14 weeks old and she's now my love.
• 1:19:20
  How old is the cat? A year and a month back.
• 1:19:24
  A year and a month she is now. So we've had her, we've had her
• 1:19:27
  first for nearly a year now and she's been an absolute godsend.
• 1:19:32
  She's been a menace, as you can see.
• 1:19:35
  I don't know if you can tell on this back wall here.
• 1:19:38
  Bits of like claw marks from the walls.
• 1:19:40
  That's what they do, isn't that? That's their thing.
• 1:19:44
  You know, but she's, she's, she's awesome.
• 1:19:46
  She's brilliant. What has acting and theatre
• 1:19:51
  taught you about life? What hasn't it taught me?
• 1:19:59
  How can I sum this up in them quickly?
• 1:20:09
  That nothing happens for a reason.
• 1:20:14
  It's often the mistakes we make and often the the the
• 1:20:17
  coincidences that happen that are the most beautiful parts of
• 1:20:20
  life and the things we enjoy the most and often our most vivid
• 1:20:25
  memories. Yeah, I think things that don't
• 1:20:31
  happen for a reason are often the most beautiful things.
• 1:20:35
  And the mistakes we make as well are often the most telling and
• 1:20:40
  the most, you know, the things we can learn from the most.
• 1:20:45
  What's the best advice you've ever received?
• 1:20:51
  Can I give you 2? Absolutely.
• 1:20:53
  One was don't lick a frozen lamppost that that used to
• 1:21:00
  terrify me as a child. You know, the idea that because
• 1:21:06
  when my mum had told me, I assumed it meant you stick there
• 1:21:08
  forever and that's it, That's you.
• 1:21:10
  You now just you just have to assimilate with the lamp post.
• 1:21:13
  And what's the best piece of advice for Carl?
• 1:21:25
  Does it have to be acting related or just?
• 1:21:27
  It can be anything you want, anything at all.
• 1:21:29
  Anything at all. Whatever comes to mind.
• 1:21:39
  It's this soon shall pass, that whole concept.
• 1:21:46
  Tom Hanks spoke about it actually.
• 1:21:49
  He said, you know, sometimes you feel happy, this too shall this
• 1:21:52
  too shall pass you. Sometimes you feel sad, this too
• 1:21:55
  shall pass. Nothing in life is permanent.
• 1:22:04
  To quote myself, I actually thought I wrote a piece of
• 1:22:07
  poetry back in 2018. And if I had to choose a piece
• 1:22:11
  of advice myself, it was permanence is dearer in a very
• 1:22:16
  disposable era. It's, you know, the things that
• 1:22:22
  last forever, you know, are things that we can't buy,
• 1:22:28
  memories and love and happiness and things like that.
• 1:22:34
  And everything else is disposable.
• 1:22:36
  You know, it'll eventually go at some point, you know, you'll
• 1:22:39
  change clothes, you'll, you'll, you know, everything will go.
• 1:22:43
  So to the memories we keep. What's the biggest life lesson
• 1:22:47
  you've learnt so far? The biggest life lesson I've
• 1:22:49
  learnt so far, I am that I need other people to, to keep my
• 1:22:59
  money for me. If there's one thing I've learnt
• 1:23:01
  is that I if I have money, I spend it.
• 1:23:03
  That's my issue. So the other people are better
• 1:23:08
  financiers than myself. That's what I've learnt.
• 1:23:12
  Don't trust. Yeah.
• 1:23:13
  If you want a piece of advice, don't trust David Collins with
• 1:23:15
  money. Spend it.
• 1:23:18
  That's a piece of advice for their viewers at home.
• 1:23:20
  Don't trust me with money. As we round things off for
• 1:23:23
  today, final question for you. Do you have any upcoming
• 1:23:26
  projects or final thoughts that you'd like to share with our
• 1:23:28
  listeners? Yeah, so obviously I've been
• 1:23:30
  talking about the whole time when you die you can go and
• 1:23:34
  watch it in Manchester, The Anthony Burgess Foundation on
• 1:23:37
  the 23rd of July and the Empty Space in Salford on the 24th of
• 1:23:40
  July. Tickets are on style now if you
• 1:23:43
  want to go see it in Manchester Fringe.
• 1:23:46
  I'm also starting my own theatre company as well very, very soon,
• 1:23:50
  a theatre company called Hallowed Ground Theatre Company.
• 1:23:54
  That'll be starting very soon and social media for that.
• 1:23:58
  I'll be up and we'll be working if I can pull my proverbial
• 1:24:02
  finger out of my proverbial backside.
• 1:24:06
  Anything else that's coming up very soon.
• 1:24:08
  That's about it all. All I'd say is sort of, you
• 1:24:10
  know, watch the socials. I'm always doing something.
• 1:24:15
  I just don't know it yet, you know?
• 1:24:18
  Some profound words there. Thanks for sharing, man.
• 1:24:23
  It's been, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show.
• 1:24:25
  It's. Been a pleasure being here.
• 1:24:26
  It's been wonderful, yeah. That's what we like to hear.
• 1:24:30
  Thank you. Very much.
• 1:24:31
  Thanks again and to all the listeners of the Christian Reef
• 1:24:35
  Podcast. As always, I hope you enjoyed
• 1:24:37
  enjoyed this show as much as I did.
• 1:24:39
  Be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the next one.