Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Makala Green on networking, advising the entertainment industry and being the first black chartered female financial planner in the UK.

Transcript

Makala Green on networking, advising the entertainment industry and being the first black chartered female financial planner in the UK. · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sam Oakes, and today I'm joined by Michaela Green from Green Wealth Planning.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And in today's episode, we discuss what it's like to be the first black female chartered financial planner in the UK.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: We discuss her career starting at the age of 16 as a cashier for Nationwide Building Society, rising up through the ranks to become one of the top performing mortgage advisers, and actually winning Nationwide's Got Talent, which allowed her to become a financial planner at the age of 21.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: She moved on from bank assurance and set up her own business as a self-employed financial planner.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we discussed the realities of that.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: We also touch on networking, networking, networking.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a massive part of how Michaela has built her business, specifically within the entertainment industry.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: We also talk about the power of LinkedIn, along with being a female within financial planning and diversity within the industry.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoy it, really.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: So um Michaela, thank you very much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um actually, first off, how are you getting on with um how are you getting on with lockdown at the moment?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, lockdown for me is not been a great deal of difference.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've done a fair amount of work from home beforehand.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I just think it's um it's a bit more self-motivation that's needed, but also kind of juggling a lot of things as well.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of making sure you know you're prioritizing and getting things done.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: But from a work aspect, um, there's not too many changes, which is a good thing.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Not too many changes.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you're used to working from home anyway.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: You you do you have your home office usually?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you yeah, no, no problems.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm familiar to working from home, so that works well for me.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Fair play.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: What about your children though?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know what your children are around?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is that not distracting?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely so.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's taking on like multiple hats.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's like working as a a parent, but also as a teacher, and you know, and as as a working mom as well, so it's kind of juggling all of them.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think generally sometimes mothers were really used to juggling things anyway, but this is like putting things to the test, but it it's good, and I think the children are enjoying it, which is a good thing.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, fair place here.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're better than I am because I um I've just I've got my office is literally five minutes down the road, and I've got a four-year-old daughter, and um my wife's not working, so she's at home with the daughter.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I've just like literally from week one, just like I'm not working at home.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I've camped out.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've out in the office.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've got everything.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've got my yoga mat in here, my weights, everything.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like living in the office at the moment, which is you're literally hiding in there then.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Literally hiding, absolutely, absolutely.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I'm getting loads of stuff done.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm finding actually it's quite easy to strip things away and sort of get back to basics.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think some of the things that we were really kind of worried about or thinking about all the time prior to to lockdown, it's kind of becomes not that big a deal.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sort of it's detraction, you know, things are I'm just taking things away from the business and then seeing the value in it, and it's just I don't know, it's just really eye-opening.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So there's some real positives to it.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, um, you know, and I'm not gonna lie, it you know, I run a business, it freaked me out for the first uh first couple of weeks, but now I'm back on it.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm feeling quite positive about it already.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to do any yeah, you don't want to go back to normal again.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, exactly.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally changed the way we're living.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um obviously, Michaela, thank you.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, thanks for coming on the podcast.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the first question I always ask, and I'm always interested to know, is um, how you know, how did you get into financial planning?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you decide to become a financial planner?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, for me, Sam, I got into the industry at a really young age.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it was from very early doors.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: I I think the actual profession to me seemed really appealing.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I started off in the bank at the age of um 16.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: And um it stood out to me.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think it stood out as a very attractive role.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: They was kind of the only professionals in the bank at the time that never wore a uniform.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they'd strut up in their nice suits and expensive shoes, and it and it struck to me from there, and I thought that's what I want to be, that's what I want to do, you know.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think from since then I've kind of unconsciously been destined uh to become a financial advisor.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it was, I suppose I went through quite a natural progression, but almost different to many other financial advisors as well.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I definitely had the banking background.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: I went through the bank and I kind of started from ground zero and worked my way right through, you know.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it that's quite different to a lot of financial advisors' journeys.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I became a financial advisor at the age of 21.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: 21?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's young.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's really good.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Fair play.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: You must be like one of the youngest financial advisors.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: I probably was around the time, especially a fit from a female aspect.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, I it definitely stood out to me.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I was always the youngest person in the crowd, you know, and and definitely as a a minority from a female aspect.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, crikey, yeah.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say absolutely.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: So when you joined the bank then at 16 years old, were you on an apprenticeship scheme?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Did you just come in as a cashier?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: What level did you actually join?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so funny you say that.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I literally dropped out of college.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I wanted to study to become, you know, a doctor.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: That was my dream role.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I obviously went in completely the opposite direction.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: But um, for me, I started off definitely as a cashier, so it was it was working my way through, and I went over to you know, personal banking, and then I went into the mortgage market, so that was the first area that I formally qualified in, and you know, took my professional exams, and then you had the the the mortgage market crash.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you had the property market crash, and it was kind of from there a number of things really kind of I sat myself down and I thought, what do I really want to do?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Something that I can have a longevity in, and and you know, it went back to that goal when I first got into my career in banking as to what attracted me, you know, to a financial planner role.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: And thankfully, at the time, I was with Nation My Building Society, and at the time they was running this kind of scheme where they would pick the top three uh mortgage uh planners or mortgage advisors in the country that was performing the best at that time.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And luckily, I managed to get you know picked.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: I came second in the ranks, and yeah, it was from there it kind of I started my journey as a financial advisor.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how it all kind of really started.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of like um Nationwide's Got Talent, they they sort of it was it that is exactly what it was called.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, because I could work for Nationwide, yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: That is exactly what it was called, Nationwide's Got Talent, and it was it was a kind of pitch, I'm telling you, it was kind of pitch for the the best three um mortgage planners, and they was actually doing a scheme where they'll transfer you into, you know, almost fast track you, should I say, make sure you get your right qualifications done and and sit you down, you know, with the best financial advisors in nationwide itself, so you can kind of learn from the best, and at the back of that, you're gonna get a huge um client bank to actually manage.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what it was called.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: And me being the competitive person that I am, yeah, I was like, Yes, I'm going for this.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is my chance, you know, to really make my dream role come true.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: And thankfully, you know, thanks to God, it it happened.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Fair place.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, so you won't you win nationwide Scott Challenge, or would you come second or third?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: I came second.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Did you?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, cool.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: So but you got the you know, you got the job, fab.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like some game show for jobs.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the future's gonna be like.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: That is what the future's gonna be like, like game shows.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I know, it's all fun and games though, isn't it?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think sometimes you do have to put a bit of humour and a bit of you know entertainment into finances because it can be quite a boring field.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, you want to kind of jazz it up a bit, and and that definitely jazz things up.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you what though, I bet uh you're how old how old were you at that time then?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: You were 21, were you or 20?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I was 20 at the time, and um yeah, absolutely.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you're 20 years old, you're in a bank, you know.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're putting a competition in front of you which can um help you get to your dream job becoming a financial advisor at such a young age.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that is exciting and that is interesting, and I suppose as well, you know, we we downplay things like competitiveness now in business.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's it's a it's a wrong word to, you know, it's it's wrong to be too uber competitive with your staff, you know.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think you know, those are the types of things that get people really motivated.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if someone's gonna put Dangler Carrot in front of you that says you're gonna become a financial advisor if you win this, then you're gonna be like fired right up for it, aren't you?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that's something that gets lost at the moment in business.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: We're scared of like hurting people's feelings.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just think get you know, get people competitive.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and also it's a great example as well.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I've said this before to the other people on the podcast that come from the banking background, is that banks are banks building societies were really geared up towards um promoting people internally and training people and developing people to become financial planners.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it was kind of like the base, wasn't it, really, where people went first of all.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if you had no experience, look at you, 16 years old, no experience, you've gone into the cashier, you've kind of you know you become a personal banker, you're learning absolutely every level of the banking floor.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you're then moving into mortgage advice, and then boom, you're into the you know into a financial planning role.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, some people would chew their arms off to get that kind of opportunity right now, because there just isn't that kind of ground, you know.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: You've got your I know you're part of SJP and everything, but you've got the SJP Academy and these types of things, but they're not an opportunity like you you have.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um no, it's and fair play to you.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: You grabbed it, yeah, with both with both hands, really.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Which is cool.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's completely different that you know, you get that opportunity to to really understand things at all levels.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so when I am positioned with a client, you know, and they've got a banking issue or they've got a a financial kind of debt issue, or that I fully understand all of those different areas because these things that I've come across to and I've had a foundation um in so yeah.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Fab.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so your banking background is really helping you now in your in your current role as a as a financial planner, then, yeah?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh fab.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: So when you were so at Nationwide Building Society, you were there for a good 11 years, weren't you?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So how long were you advising for when you were there?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I was advising for about five years um while I was still in terms of financial advice.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it was advising for five years.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: We went through the um restructure in 2012 where all financial advisors had to retrain.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And again, that was just a bit of a shakeup.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it just felt like I was always doing exams from one year to the next, consistently doing exams.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: But that was really good for me because I think that put me in a position where I fully understood, you know, the role as a financial advisor, and I felt it had a major impact for me to be able to have the confidence and the value that I can add to my clients.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think you know that that shake up in 2012 was a really good move from an industry point of view.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we're talking retail, retail distribution review, yeah?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was obviously recruiting dur during that period.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was a really tricky, tricky time, obviously.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: So many, so many of the banks were hemorrhaging staff and losing staff and having to make people redundant.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's what pushed everybody into the into the financial, the independent financial advice world at the time.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, at the time there wasn't a great deal of opportunities for many people.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're with a company that was sticking behind you and keeping you on board, you were you were really, really lucky.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um so when you were so as a nationwide, so okay, so at nationwide you became level four diploma qualified, did you?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but first I I came um CIFA qualified.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I had my level three CIFA at the time, um, because I qualified before 2012.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I done the level three CIFA and then you know the the re-qualification came in.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: So then I became level four qualified, still while I was working with Nationwide Buddha Society, yeah.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: So would your advice be for somebody who is thinking about becoming a financial advisor?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're quite young, let's say they're 18 to 20 years old.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think uh it's it's good advice to say get yourself into a bank and and do some work in a bank?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Would you do you think that's still good advice?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it depends really, because I think at the time um there wasn't as much like academy roots like there are.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: There are quite a few companies now doing fast track, or should I say, where they're kind of holding your hand through the process to become a financial advisor, and I think there wasn't a lot of that around when when I was actually before I became a financial advisor, and naturally I was in the bank, so it it just seemed like a natural progression anyway, and it wasn't really until I became you know a financial advisor that I'd start getting headhunted from all these different companies, but other than that, you you didn't really have much information about what a financial advisor is, what they do, how to actually get into the role.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I I had the opportunity while I was in the bank to kind of pick financial advisors' brains and kind of say, well, what's your background and how did you and kind of get in, you know, and a lot of them, their background was from the bank as well.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I had never really come across anybody at that time that had gone through like an academy role, whereas now most financial advisors that I speak to that are quite newly qualified or have a few years in state that they've gone through an academy route.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say possibly the academy, because I've seen some great financial advisors come out from an academy and they're doing great things in the industry.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, I I didn't personally go through that myself, um, but I can only view it from what I've seen.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say that would be the best route.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think if you're in the bank, potentially maybe progress in the bank, but then there's not much banks now offering financial advisors.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I I wouldn't kind of recommend that as a route anymore.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think somebody going through an academy gets a better view of what true financial planning is against somebody who who's come from, say, a bank assurance background?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you think your level of knowledge would been would be far greater earlier if you'd have gone into an academy if it was there?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't use the term better.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: I would say it's different because I think with the fight with the academy, they are learning wholly and exclusively about financial advice, you know, and so the kind of picture that they have going in, they're kind of coming into the role, kind of understanding the basics about what a financial advisor entails.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas from the bank's background, um, some of the major benefits I would say I picked up is like people, you know, people skills and communication skills in terms of sitting down with individuals and gaining the right information with in a very simplistic way.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that those are the kind of things that I gained from working in the bank over a long period of time.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: And also just understanding general money issues that people have on a day-to-day basis.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you're able to use those kind of things, you know, to help clients to avoid certain negative situations.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like to give you an example, you can't I kind of get and had a number of clients when I was a kind of personal banker, in terms of how they kind of got into debt.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of steering clients away from things like that.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas I suppose if you've gone through an academy route, you don't necessarily have that knowledge behind you.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: And also, as well, do you think it's but you do know quite a lot about the role in itself?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: And okay.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's quite different.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and do you find do you think um obviously being part of a bank when you're working in the bank, was it a lot easier to get clients?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously the the bank's got customers, and those customers get referred across to you.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, it it's one thing that we used to when I used to try and place people from a bank assurance background, especially post-RDR, was you know, oh, we don't really want someone who's just used to getting leads past them or clients land on their lap.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: We want some hunters, we want some people to go out there and win some business.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that general conception was that uh perception, sorry, was that bank assurers, you know, very few of them were actually good at going out and hunting and winning business.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they were more sort of um, you know, taking appointments and sitting down with clients and used to a personal banker passing leads on.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you agree with that?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, to a certain extent, definitely.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think um when I was in the bank, you're kind of inundated with clients.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you get to the point where sometimes you may have to turn clients away, or you know, you have to push clients in terms of you're not able to see somebody maybe till three weeks' time down the line because your your diary is so filled.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that may be due to that you may cover a number of different branches, so you're not just scheduled in one area.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, like for instance, I had a portfolio that I was managing in excess of a hundred million, it was a lot of clients that I had to manage on a day-to-day basis, and that's separate to the clients that's kind of walking in on a day-to-day.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: So you you are kind of inundated with clients, but I think in order to, excuse me, in order to be, you know, as you mentioned, prove your your value as an advisor, you still need to be doing different things with those clients that that's already maybe put potentially in the portfolio, but also building strong relationships with those clients that you're able to get those clients to maybe refer on other other other clients.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not just reliant upon that portfolio.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's some hunting, there's some hunting, there's some you know, there's some networking going on, you know, you're using those types of skill.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: And with these types of skills, it came naturally to you.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Do you would you say you were a natural networker, natural seller, let's say?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're not allowed to use the word seller, but I'm gonna do you have those natural sales ability and and charisma to wing clients, or is that something that you that you learn?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're not allowed to use the term sales anymore, Sam.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: I did, but um, yeah, networking, number one, networking is not something that I learned until I got into business because, as I mentioned, you're kind of inundated with clients in the bank, and you don't really need to do networking.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: That kind of came later on in the banking industry, almost when I kind of left and went went off to run my own practice.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I think um the networking aspect works great for business.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you need to build those relationships, so that's kind of was key there.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: But in terms of my natural ability, you know, to I would say in terms of uh my likability with clients, I would say that came natural, um, naturally, because I had a lot of things that stood against me.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, being age, number two, being a female.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'd get a lot of clients to stating to me, Well, how much do you know about shares?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what um shares have you kind of invested in?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was so young when I started out.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it was it was a natural ability in terms of really understanding how to engage, you know, deeply with clients and actually have them that you they they do become likable, they they actually trust you in terms of being like a friend, they want to come in and tell you about, you know, you know, their holidays and different things like that.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's I think that part came naturally to me because I just naturally have a huge interest in people in general and understanding about you know what makes them tick, their values, their belief systems, and I think all of that comes together to make a great advisor in terms of sourcing the right information that you need to make the suitable recommendations for the clients.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think do you think that sort of um personability, you know, that personal touch, that ability to communicate at all levels, um, you know, do you think that's massively important as a financial planner?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you you know, or do you think you can be a financial planner and be in a complete numbers guy?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody's really into his forecasting and everything, or do you think that you have to be quite a personable type person to do the job?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, both wins really.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um There was a study, and the study suggested that men financial uh male financial advisors are more, you know, um numbers without kind of saying anything in a negative way, but are more numbersy and female financial advisors are a bit more um empathetic, almost like a counsellor type of advisors.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the impacts are very different.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I get clients referred to me purely on the basis that I'm a female, and I think it's not so it goes a lot deeper than me just being a female.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's the different way that we actually advise and connect with clients.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it might be that you know our meetings might go on slightly longer than the average because we've gone into something that's possibly nothing to do with you know financial advice and the finances, but a lot of that is part of building trust and building those solid solid relationships.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think a numbers game can work really well, but it it would only work for a certain sector of people.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think in terms of you expanding your business and you you wanting your business to have a longevity, you really need to build those deeper relationships with clients, and a lot of that needs or yearns empathy, you know, and and being a people type person.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: They've got to like you, haven't they?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: They've got to like 100%, otherwise it's a no-go.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they've got they've got to like you and they've got they've got to trust you, didn't they?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: They've got to buy into you, they've got to trust that you're um that you're gonna be doing things right for their money, giving them the right advice, but at the same time that you're gonna be there for those difficult situations.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I imagine if someone dies or if someone gets divorced, you know, these are these are times that are very stressful.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you need that emotional connection with your financial advisor almost, as you mentioned earlier, you know, you might spend that extra bit of time perhaps counselling that person.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not your job to do that.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I suppose it is your job to do that, especially if it's around money.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you need to be there to give them that full level of service that perhaps, you know, if they'd stuck 50 grand into an app or something, or uh, you know, a bit of online uh investment, they might not get that level of human contact, would they?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, so true.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all right, cool.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: So sort of leaning on to that, have you had any training or have you had any um you know have you done do you do any seminars training, any learning around um behaviors, client behaviours, and that sort of thing to be able to match against them at all?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I've done a lot.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um sometimes I think too much.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I think one of the first times I got told off in the bank from a very early age is that I I had booked too many courses, you know, um, to go on in terms of listening skills, you know, networking skills.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm I'm all about self-development, and I think um the more I continually develop myself, the more value I am, not only to me as a person, but also to my clients that I have contact with and I have relationships with.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm continually always building, you know, so there's a lot of things like professional advisor, does a lot of um training around throughout the year with different things.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm constantly in attendance with things like that and exhibitions and also seminars, but also I think for my own um progression as well.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I also do my own put back in terms of putting on my own events and my own seminars or workshops, and I think you naturally kind of bounce back and feed off ideas from going to different events and seminars and just making sure you're consistently up to date.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're in an industry where things change on a daily basis.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I think if you're not keeping up to date with, I mean, we've got our standard yearly CPD, which is like the 35 hours or whatsoever it is, but I always do far in excess of that because I just think we need to consistently be one step ahead of the game.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, you know, your clients could easily read things online or you know, speak to a friend and they could give them very basic information about finances because there is a lot now that's quite readily accessible, whereas previously there wasn't.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I think as advisors, you consistently need to be ahead of the game and always in the loop of things.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: So you're adding value, consistently adding value.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say that's one of the biggest challenges you come up against at the moment is um a more savvy client, a more financially aware client who feels that they've got the ability themselves perhaps to manage their own money, or you know, they'll use an app like we talked about earlier, like a you know, an online app or have a go themselves, basically.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are you coming up against that more and more or or you're not?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Not so as much.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: And and sometimes I you do have the the odd client that sometimes believes that they're completely savvy, but then once you've actually delved into a bit more information in terms of what you do and how you can help um that particular client, they realize how much more um valuable you are in terms of the knowledge aspect because I just think, yeah, that there are definitely savvy clients, and I embrace clients like that because I just think it's really great.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's part of the role, you know.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: We are working together to build a plan in action and help you achieve your goals, you know, and and dreams and aspirations, so it's not just a one-way kind of street, but I think yeah, if if you're completely in the loop, then you definitely don't need a financial advisor.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I find if clients do come over and see me, they still wanting to take value from my knowledge.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: All right, cool.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be off track there because I wanted to know a bit about when you're a financial planner working for nationwide.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, how many guys, how many advisors were working for nationwide at the time when you were there?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: There must have been at least 20,000.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's quite a lot, isn't it?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: There was quite a lot of advisors because at the time there was like UK wide about 250,000 advisors.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the industry now sits at just over 20,000 advisors.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: So there's been a huge drop in the industry.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the bank itself don't quote me on it, but they had quite they had quite a lot, a lot of advisors.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember sort of did they have because obviously get back to your competitiveness, you know?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Were you quite competitive in league tables and yes, things like that?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Did it did they have that type of thing in the city?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they did have those.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: You've got all the inside information.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I say I see I used to love it.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well they had the league tables that that was great, actually, for me.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I I shouldn't shoot myself in the foot, and I'm not gonna mention who or what bank or anything like that, but I used to get my hands on some league tables.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh very, very, very useful from time to time.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, but um, so when you were on the with those with those league tables then, did where where were you where were you in the league tables?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Were you top?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was always in the top quartile because uh it was a it was competitive because you've got to remember I was most advisors at the time were twice my age, some of them even three times my age.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, they would always look at me, who is this young girl that's consistently in this top quartile?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it was my work ethic that I would kind of put in.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the same things that that stood out to me as a challenge was also the same things that ended up being my advantage in the industry as well.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of I learned that at quite an early age in my profession, and I played to my strengths, I turned my weaknesses into strengths and then played to them.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and that's what consistently kept me in that in that top quartile.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um it was tough being even being in a top quartile.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was hard work.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: So what were the what were those strengths?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: What are the key things that you have?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: What strengths do you have that would make you a great financial planner?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what what what what sort of characteristics were you displaying?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: What were your strengths?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think my strengths were I was able to one of the things, one of the major things was I was able to provide a simplistic overview on very complex information.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: So again, we're going back to those times where there wasn't much information out there for for you know the general public to gain and understand how to manage their finances effectively.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: So they were solely, and there wasn't these robo advisors, there wasn't online um investment tools, so it was very limited.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: So individuals were solely dependent upon financial advisors to give them the right information.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, I'm I'm a very I like to keep things simple.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just me in general.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I was able to take all of this complex information and either put it in a very visual format for my clients, like literally doodling and drawing things out, or just putting things in a very simple way.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I done a session once um with some young individuals, and I was just teaching them about diversification, and I said, just think of it as a pizza, you know, you've got different toppings on a pizza.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody likes a plain pizza, but everybody has different toppings that they kind of use.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you might have some might have pepperoni, some might have, you know, ham and pineapple, but the different things that you're kind of putting on there is how you can balance and make a portfolio.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: So in a nutshell, kind of thing.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of breaking things down into a way that clients can understand.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think one of the only ways you can actually do that is if you know that client, kind of what they like.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: Are they a visual person?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Are they kind of a person who likes things read out to them?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, is too much information too much.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so really just understanding who that client is, what they're really about, what they like, and then delivering it to them in that way.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that was one of the things that stood out because I think a lot of the financial advisors at that time was just like, no, this is the set rule, it's always worked for me, and this is the way I deliver, which is fine because they had a huge client base and they were still doing well, but I think I was coming in doing something completely different because I was just putting a fresh pair of eyes on it, naturally, a young pair of eyes.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and it was something that a lot of clients were onto.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: They liked it, they like the younger, you know, yeah, absolutely.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is kind of like a common misconception, I think, is that a lot of people who are younger don't get into the industry because hey, it looks like a little bit like a job for older, middle-aged white men.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, so it doesn't and there isn't really anybody championing it, you know, and and and and showing that what it's like to be a young financial advisor.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there isn't many faces, faces out there doing that.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: You see it more and more, and more people are embracing the likes of um Instagram and stuff like that and and and showcasing themselves on there.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that you're quite a big fan of Instagram, aren't you?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you've been using it.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: How have you how have you found it for your job then?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Have you you know, do you find that you know promoting yourself on Instagram is when get getting you to win clients at the moment, or is it a slow start?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I still find um LinkedIn my my main source of you know social media in terms of gaining clients.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I find the professionalism is there and it almost matches the you know the kind of work that I do in terms of being professional and a trusted kind of business.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: From the Instagram point of view, I haven't actually pitched it in a sense of aiming to get business, it's more the awareness point of view.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think uh people are a lot more visual, a lot more relaxed, it's a bit more fun, you know.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of direct sales on Instagram for me doesn't directly work.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but any events that I kind of promote on my Instagram gets a lot of traction, and I get a lot of people signing up to events on there.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: But other than that, I kind of put out a lot of uh useful information that people can kind of you know grasp and think, hey, that was valuable.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I get a lot of emails saying that you know, that's very inspiring seeing what you're doing and and the information.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: I love your content that you're putting out, it's kind of really good and snappy.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I was able to gather, you know, little things like I've done a quick post on things to think about before going into the stock market or before investing.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and that had uh from the analytics a lot of saves from people, so it's kind of more from an awareness point of view and just to kind of add value back uh to individuals.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's mainly my Instagram strategy.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because Instagram's very it is very about me, isn't it?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like um, you know, it's personal branding, isn't it?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Essentially, the idea is to get people to see a different side of you on Instagram, I think.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the way I think it works because you might do or say something on Instagram that you wouldn't do or say on LinkedIn.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a different kind of vice versa.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And vice versa, yeah.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I love do you know what I love putting like my own personal stories as well.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: I like the stories on Instagram, and I'm just I'll have a bit of a laugh and a bit of a joke, but I wouldn't dare put that on my financial plan of life one, but I will put financial store financial planner life stories on there that I wouldn't put onto LinkedIn for some reason, you know?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think different platforms, you you kind of it's almost like taking your shirt off and putting a t-shirt on or something, you know.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's a different type of approach to a different type of audience.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: However, what I am seeing is more and more financial advisors are embracing Instagram.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they're they're sort of changing changing their approach approach on there.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think a lot of them are using the whole platform to be able to talk about finance in general, not just you know, I'm gonna win some high net worth clients.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's about sort of showing that you know what you're talking about from grassroots level.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to talk about debts or credit cards or whatever, you're building that audience then with predominantly a younger audience, aren't you?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: A younger crowd.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: So they're sort of seeing more millennials, they're getting familiar with you, they're building relationships with you.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea, I suppose, is when they start to have some money, maybe to invest, uh, or talk about a pension or some life cover or a mortgage that they're gonna think, oh bloody hell, yeah, Michaela, she knows what she's talking about.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'll remember her.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: And they pick the phone up to you and speak to you or send you a message.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a great way to get your personal brand out there and start to build that relationship with a younger audience.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Really interesting that you said LinkedIn for you is really good because so many financial advisors I speak to say they don't get anything out of LinkedIn.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's your secret?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: What are you what are you doing that they're not doing?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you like LinkedIn for winning business so much?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I went on a course um quite earlier on, um, quite early on with um Bernie Salza.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you Bernie Salser.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: But he kind of, yeah, he ran a course on just the power and how to use LinkedIn to your best advantage.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I took down a lot of notes.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, really, I think with Instagram, I've learned over time you've got to kind of be direct with with people.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's the same like building relationships, getting recommendations, but also not being afraid to direct, like mail somebody who you feel maybe you know you and them might be a best fit in terms of you being able to help them meet their needs if they're in a particular area that you specialise in, for instance.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've managed to source a number of um entertainment and sports professionals from LinkedIn, um, and mainly I work with a number of the agents.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I build relationships with the agents and I've I've built that over time.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't do as much now as I did when I first got into business, but I think when I first got into business, I was like really putting a lot of work into LinkedIn, and I think a lot of that is paying off now.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: So anytime the agents have anybody in the industry, they're like, hey, you should go and see Michaela.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, she specializes a lot with um people in the entertainment space or people in the sports industry, um, it's kind of that kind of thing, and she she focuses on retirement planning, and that's the area that they're looking for, and they value that because it's been referred from somebody who they're really close with.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I wouldn't say well, it's very hard to find an entertainment um professional on LinkedIn anyway, but I would say maybe not directly email them directly.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I've done the same with solicitors and accountants, so again, building relationships with them.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I was able to, I mean, we we took it face to face, so I always say, you know, bring it from the social aspect into the real world.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: We can't do that right now, but yeah, back then, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: We've done a number of lunches, you know, and we've built relationships over the time, and and now I get phone calls, you know, daily from those individuals that I've built relationships with.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say LinkedIn has been, yeah, a power, a powerful tool for me in terms of my business.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: And using it mainly, okay, so that's a good thing as well, because it's not I think people think it's LinkedIn is just about spamming the newsfeed with loads of job.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, talking about recruitment now, but just spamming the newsfeed with loads of like articles or whatever.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, the power in it is is the direct messaging, it's connecting with people, obviously opening your network up, putting relevant content out on the newsfeed that people see that you're an active um professional within your industry.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: So they like it, share it, and other people within their networks see it, which helps.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: But the most powerful thing to win new clients is reaching out via emails and having that conversation via in mail.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that's the bit that sometimes people fall fall short on there.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: They feel confident or they don't think they should approach somebody, that it feels a bit cold.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: But my God, you've got access, you know.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: If I was a financial advisor, the first thing I'd be doing, bang, straight onto LinkedIn, any kind of introducer I want to work with, I would be straight in the mailbox.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, how are you doing?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I do.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Can I come and buy you a cup?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, can I buy you a cup of coffee?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: Can I come and see you?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's an amazing way in.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as well, if you're then backing that up with a bit of content, so I'll create some content.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: For example, yeah, I'll create an article and I'll just say, Hey Chris, how are you doing?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've written an article around outsourcing power planning.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Love to hear your thoughts.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then they'll read it or they'll click the link, they go on my site, they might see some stuff about jobs or whatever it is I'm trying to get them to do, but they should usually come back and give me some feedback and say, Oh, well, Sam, I like that article.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was this, that, and the other.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden a sort, you know, a conversation starts.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think again, if you're if you're reaching out to somebody and you're reaching out with something with some something of interest to them and that potentially will be helpful to them, then it's an amazing way to win clients and win relationships.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's certainly what I I would be doing if I was if I was a financial planner.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: So interesting that you're talking about reaching out to like solicitors, accountants, people within the entertainments industry.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: So does a big bulk of your sort of client relate, you know, your new business, does that come through introducers, professional introducers?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned a lot about your networking events as well.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is that is that you is that your kind of typical direct route to clients is to network?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I would say um a lot of my clients now come from referrals from introducers or from good specialist relationships that I've built, but also from my clients as well.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: So my clients are huge advocates uh for my business because I think I put a lot into my clients in terms of not only the relationship and that I build with throughout the interviews and and meetings that we have, but also in between as well.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I class a lot of my clients like my friends, if not like family members, because I think I've built strong relationships with them that we can we can kind of reach those those heights, and I put on a lot of client events throughout the year, so I do things like you know, the ascots, I do sports events, um you name it.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: I do quite a lot, a lot of events around that, and then I choose my clients who I know is particularly like like last year we had um this uh Mitchin star chef, and he was doing this five uh course meal kind of run through.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I know a client who's a complete foodie, just like myself, and I said, Hey, do you want to come along?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: We've got this event going on, you know, and I think those are the things that my clients value about me most.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, you know, Michaela is so cool, she calls me out to come to things like this, but it's not just uh a like a pick of the hat, it's I know that person is a foodie because out of the conversations that we've naturally had, you know, I'm I'm not a tick box kind of person, I have a conversation, and out of that I source the right information that I need.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then sometimes clients do say to me, Did I tell you that?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: When didn't you when did you tell when did we discuss that?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we're like, This is the thing, isn't it?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's I picked it up, I was listening.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's about listening, and I think you know, massive, massive part about any kind of uh any kind of job where you where you where you're trying to win new clients is it's about listening, listening to the listening to their wants, their needs and their interested interests, their fears, picking up on those and remembering them, um, and then bringing them up in conversation a little bit and a little bit further down the line.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Not only to benefit yourself, but to benefit them.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, if you could make their life a little bit better, and you can protect them or make them smile or take them somewhere it's gonna be really interesting.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like a friendship, isn't it?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: You want to try and keep a hold of these guys and keep them interested in you and um continue to be like your like like not only your financial advisor, professional level, but also hopefully a friend and you're gonna advise them throughout life.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's natural, isn't it, in sales?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I can't say sales anymore, can I?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's it's natural, isn't it, in in in client development?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, so when you Okay, cool.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so loads of networking events.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: So which one are you gonna take me to then, Michaela?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: What what am I interested in?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Have you been listening to what I like?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: I have I have been.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: I have been.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'll surprise you with something.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Something cool and hippie, hmm?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, you you've dropped it in there now.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I played you my sound bowl, didn't I, a couple of days ago?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know that I'm into my my meditation and sound bowl, so you know, just remember that.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: I ain't got any money to invest.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: I just want a free dinner.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, the the events don't cost anything to the clients, yeah.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh cost me a little bit.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: Do they?
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: I bet they do, yeah.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's interesting.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you spend a lot of money on events?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: Are they, you know, are they um, you know, these networking events and going to meet people and taking your clients out, do you do you is it expensive?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: Is it you know, is it a big cost to you as a business?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I suppose it can be, but it's money well spent because it's it's not only you know putting back to clients, it's how clients perceive me as an advisor and how you stand out completely to you know somebody saying that I'm gonna go off and see not only another financial advisor, but I could do this online.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's there's a huge difference there in between, so there's a huge comparison, but it's unfortunate in some cases that for some clients the the advisor that they have, there is no comparison between having that advisor or you know, doing it themselves online.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I never want to be in that predicament where my client kind of says, Well, you know, I don't really see Michaela that much, or I don't really see the great value.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I think it's money well spent.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've gained a huge amount of, and I think that's one of the main reasons.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: I won't say just the events is the main reasons, but me putting back into my clients is one of the main reasons why I get a large amount of referrals from my clients in order to run my business.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's the position that I wanted to be, because for me, um, my time has become more limited uh the longer I've been in business, and I don't have the time that I used to, like in the first year, like networking.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think the first year I went into business, I was like networking crazy, and you know, I was actually enjoying it because it was the first time I'd ever experienced networking, and somebody said to me, Oh, but an advisor's never gone down that route before.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, normally you have a huge back book or something you've brought across, or you've got clients that you're working with.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not it's quite rare you to just spend months and months networking, but years into my business, I started to see all of the benefits of that work that I put in solid for those first six months when I was in business.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and yeah, and I realized that putting value into things that may not seem like it's providing money at the time is can be beneficial for you in the long run.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: So for me that works.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I I always put value into things that I'm I may not directly be getting anything back at that point, but then I get a call from a client who says, Hey, I've got a family member who's you know just come into some money and you're the best person for them to see.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: McCain is going to treat you really well.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's classic, that's classic marketing, isn't it?
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you put yourself out there, someone may not use your services straight away, but they'll remember you.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: They pop maybe pop the business card in the in the wallet or whatever, or save your email save your email for for another day when they need it, and they pick it up and they remember you.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if you weren't there, then you wouldn't have seen them.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what often happens, isn't it?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's things start to trickle in, but you're not gonna get that, you're not gonna get new clients, you're not gonna win those types of people if you're not out there in front of them.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, and that's a yeah, and that's a big I think that's a big struggle that a lot of financial planning firms have when they're hiring people, is that uh some of the advisors aren't really used to going out or wanting to go out and actually network and not wanting to go out and win relate, you know, when you introduce the relationships and whine and dine somebody and get on their good side because you know, a bit further down the line they're gonna reap the rewards.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so that's a big yeah, that is a big struggle.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just something that you because that's interesting because obviously you were at nationwide, you you chose to leave nationwide.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we won't go into the reasons of that.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: I assume it actually, no, why why did you leave nationwide then?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna go into that, yes.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: I am.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: We're not gonna go into that, yes then.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um for me, it was a number of things.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it was family work-life balance.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I had two young girls at the time, and they was well, I had, yeah, I had two young girls, and one was two and the other was one.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, I was just like, it was hard work going back to work, having my first my first child.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew after the second, which was wasn't far behind, that um I wanted something.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: I really enjoyed what I I did, but I wanted something different in terms of me having the flexibility, a bit more freedom, you know, and and that's where I kind of said, no, I want to go self-employed, I want to have my own practice.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: That way I can, you know, I can potentially do still be at home when when needed, but also do what I enjoy and and have my career and you know enjoy the best of both worlds.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it was solely a family work-life balance kind of kind of thing.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I'm so glad that I made that decision back then because I don't think I I would look back into that kind of structure as as how it was, especially from a in a banking point of view.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm so glad I left when I did.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: But at the kind of at the time when I left, also a lot of the banks was going through this restructuring process.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, they was all making changes anyway.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of banks were completely shutting shop with financial advisors, so they was literally getting rid of all of their financial advisors, you know, nationwide in itself was doing a quite a restructuring, getting rid of a number of advisors as well.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I wouldn't say getting rid of, but it was more like a voluntary redundancy kind of uh program that was going on at the time.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: So so yeah, for me it was it was the right time.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it and it couldn't have come at a better time based on what was going on in the banking world.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right, okay.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: So at the time did they so they offered you redundancy and you took redundancy?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I did, yeah.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, cool, okay.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, oh that's good.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: So um that came that was about five and a half years ago, then was it?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: About five years ago?
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's great.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you went out into the so you're obviously working for nationwide, you you've been there since you were you know 16 years old.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have a good understanding of the rest of the the market, probably at that stage.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then um you joined SJP, St.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: James's place.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: So they've obviously done their job very well, which they do, you know.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: They would be probably probably talking to you every week, weren't they?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: Them and a lot of other people, so um firms as well.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know they're they're they're you know they're really good at getting out there and getting in front of um and getting in front of financial advisors without a shadow of a doubt.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: They've got a very slick marketing machine there as well, and a very great induction process as well.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very difficult when uh can't that sounds like a bitter recruiter here, don't I?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's very difficult when they put one of my candidates in the I lose them.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: You give him the logo.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, so you decided to join St.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: James's place as a partner then, okay.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: So no experience of working on a self-employed basis or anything like that.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Did they sort of give you any sweetener at all to you know to ease you into that?
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: Did you get a retainer in place um or anything along those lines?
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: I know you obviously had the redundancy pack pay pay probably that helped you out a little bit.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: But did you have anything else at all?
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: We you know, I think when people work for a bank or are employed, I think one of the biggest concerns that they have is how am I going to afford the first year?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: What's it gonna look like?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how am I gonna win my clients?
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: How am I gonna make money?
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: Did you go through that worry at that at that time?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: Were you quite confident?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have clients to go after?
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or you mentioned about networking and stuff.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: What was your what was your strategy?
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I didn't have the money, I didn't have the money worries issue, and that's why I had a lot of people in St.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: James's place, you know, state to me that it's very odd that you know you've gone down the route of purely networking.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was doing business in between, but I was so more focused on doing networking than doing business because I was just looking ahead into the future that I need to build these relationships.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't come across with a a back book of clients because I was under a covenant with nationwide.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I couldn't bring across those clients, I couldn't have contact with my existing clients.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, some of them uh you know now are clients of mine because we've been, you know, friends and close, close relations for quite some time.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I wasn't, I was literally starting from scratch, but that that wasn't new to me in my career, you know, as from my progression, where with the each progression that I had, I've always started from scratch, you know.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: I got into the more mortgage industry, I knew nothing about mortgages before I had qualified, you know, but I learned everything there was to know about mortgages, and and again with with from the financial aspect.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it was just kind of I went in completely confident, I think too confident into business, just thinking, how different could it be?
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm I'm still doing the same role that I'm doing.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it was a bit of a you know, smack in the face because it was kind of like, no, this is different.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: I've taken on multiple hats, I'm now you know, a business owner, I'm a I'm a networker, I'm a marketer, I'm a manager, you know, I'm my self-motivator.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, in that sense, there wasn't anything at that point in time, um, which I know St.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place has put new measures in now, but there wasn't anything in terms of showing you how to run your business or how to run a business in particular.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it was almost as if everybody was in the know-how of how to do this, you know.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you had you've got some different people who come over to St.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place as independent financial advisors.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now they are already in the loop of or used to running their own business.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: So from people from a financial or banking background, it's it's completely different, and especially for me.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it was kind of like really overwhelming once I got into the understanding that I'm now doing like seven roles as opposed to the one role that I had when I was working in the bank.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it was kind of you know, and I'd I'd always make uh relationships with people, other advisors, you know, and they'd say, Well, you need to get back office, you need to get staff, you know.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's the only real way to you know reduce the the things that you don't want to do and focus on the things that you're really good at.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: And eventually I took I took that plunge, you know, and I now have a a great support system behind me in terms of back office and admin, so I can purely focus on what I enjoy doing, where my skill set best lies, seeing people, meeting my clients, building those relationships and managing their money.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: So cool, man.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: That that was what it was for me.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: How long how long did it take you to work out that you needed all that?
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you said you're wearing like seven different hats, and that's total reality, isn't it?
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a business owner and it's like yeah, it's mental.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like one minute, I'm a marketer.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the next today I was doing my cash flow forecasting and stuff, and I'm thinking, yeah, why am I doing this?
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: I need someone else to do this.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is ridiculous.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: So how long, how long was it?
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, how long was it before you realized that right, I do need to let go of control, really?
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because in the beginning, you're like, I don't want to let go because I want to do it all myself, and I know I can do it all myself.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you have an expectation on yourself to do everything, and then you kind of beat yourself up a little bit if you don't manage your expectation, you know, you don't reach the expectations you set yourself.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then once you let go and let somebody else do something, you know, oh my god, why didn't I do that?
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like six months ago.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: What more ten years ago?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: Crazy.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: How long did it take you to get to that point?
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well, it's funny that you say that is because that's another um hat that you end up taking on, because the recruitment process is you know a whole nother stream of things.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's another good thing that LinkedIn has been an advantage for as well for me, in terms of recruiting uh back office staff.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: So LinkedIn is not only great for meeting clients because I've gone through a number of um, I would say not so great, you know, employees and and people that I've had to let go.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's again, it's another kind of whirlwind that you go through, you think, oh, right, I've done I've kind of done what I need to do now, I've got someone, and then that person doesn't work to the best of efficiency, and then it's kind of like you're you end up micromanaging when you don't really want to be doing that because that's another task that you didn't kind of anticipate.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I think getting the right staff, uh yeah, it took a number a number of years um in terms of just building, and then I I kind of had a really good staff member, you know, and then they lost family members and and so just decided to stop working completely.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it's all those things you have to take into consideration.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_02: But now, thank God, you know, fingers crossed, I I've got a really good back office who's been with me for for a number of years now, but I would say it a good solid two years before I got got it right, and okay, and I got a flow of being able to manage myself, but also do enough management with with somebody else because uh I've I've always taken people from scratch, so I train them, you know, I build them up in terms of working within the financial industry.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where the time element kind of comes into play.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you were to do it again, like two years, what would you change?
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: What advice say would you give somebody who's just starting out self-employed now?
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: Not with Essence James's place, just self-employed in general.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: What what what advice would you give them?
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: What would you change about your past experience?
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: I would say um, other than just having a business plan and a structure in place, actually have a number of clients that is really gonna get you going and started on your feet.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: So you're really starting with something because starting from the bottom sometimes or starting from scratch, it doesn't always work for everyone because you've consistently got to build that self-motivation to get up every day and say, even though nothing's here, I can see something going forward.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_02: I just think if you're able to, you know, build build a network of people, whether that be friends or family members, you know, or people who you've known for some time, reach out to them and get a solid yes that they're actually gonna commit to sitting down with you, seeing you, hearing what you do and how you can actually benefit them, gives you that.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think it gives you that right step in confidence to then move forward and progress to the next outside circle.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_02: So they always say you've got your inner circle and your outside circle.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think start off with your inner circle, which is your personal network, and build your confidence there, and then that will give you the confidence to now move to the outer circle, like things like LinkedIn, reaching out, direct messaging, you know, building other relationships with accountants, solicitors.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I think you want to definitely have that good solid groundwork first from an area where you're comfortable with.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_02: That that would be my advice.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: What my advice with people is always to think about, yeah, well, that's great advice, really solid advice.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking keeping it simple, isn't it, in the beginning and then building up from there and building outwards, as opposed to kind of thinking, do you know what?
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a marketer right now, I know exactly what I'm gonna do.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna jump on LinkedIn and start doing it in marketing and all that kind of stuff because that takes time, that takes energy, doesn't it?
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it's like learning a brand new job.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got to think, right, but what am I gonna do?
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have to keep it really, really simple.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: Who do I know that would use my services?
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't I reach out to them now?
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps do that whilst you're still working in the job you're in.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, build that model.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to always say, like, get your A clients, get your B clients, get your C clients.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: What clients are A clients are the ones that you know 100% are gonna follow you if you're leaving somewhere else and that relationship is solid, you can play for a pint with them or whatever.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: Your B your B clients are like, I'm pretty confident that they're they're into me, but I don't have as strong a relationship as I do with my A's, and I can't guarantee it.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: And C's are you know, I I can I can speak to them maybe in a year's time and drop in line in and perhaps they'll follow me.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: And to get that kind of idea of exactly what is going to follow you if something if you're leaving somewhere, obviously with restricted covenants in place, etc.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: But also, as you rightfully said, where can I immediately make business with my current network?
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Who do I know that could introduce me to somebody else?
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when you start writing that out and building that plan up, all of a sudden you've got loads of names, haven't you?
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, wow, like I've got a whole load of people here that I can get in contact with, and you can do that from the get-go.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, keep it so simple.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think we just kind of overdo it and overthink it.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you overdo it and overthink it, you're stuck in fear, and then you don't go out and do the job you're meant to do.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's keeping it really, really basic.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, is that what you did?
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I wouldn't say that's what I that is what I did actually.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I think following things through sometimes, and sometimes you can get knockbacks when when your actual inner circles don't support you as much as you expect them to.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's where that kind of element lies, and I think that's why I said getting that confident yes from individuals.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes your outer circles, it's unfortunate, but sometimes your outer circles will support you more than the inner circle.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_02: But you hope that the inner circle, you hope it'll be the other way around, you know, and and for most people, hopefully that is that is the right way.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I just think just never give up.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you you have to be quite thick skinned and and have that mindset where you want to keep going.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like a winning mindset where you're gonna keep going because you are looked upon as the face of the business.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to just keep pushing, you know, keep headstrong, and it will come through eventually.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's not it's not an overnight business, and it's the same with networking.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of like you know, you're building those relationships over time, and it's it's a relationships kind of business.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, but once you've built those solid relationships, I think it it then does click.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've spoken to financial um advisors who's like you know, in their near 70s, and they've been in the industry for decades and decades, and for some of them, they said it didn't actually click until you know their 10th, 20th year in business, in terms of really making it super big.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just think you you just got to keep going.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's it is a relationships thing, it is a long-term.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we recommend long-term to clients, you know, and invest for at least five years, but it takes a long time to build that trust with somebody that wants to invest in something you've recommended for five years.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_02: So you really have to put put the work in, and it's it's not for the light, light-hearted, should I say?
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: Would you spend like would you say like 80% of your time is spent prospecting?
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: Are you out there prospecting a lot more than you are, say, sitting down and doing reviews of clients and stuff?
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or what how much you know, how much of your time is spent out prospecting and trying to win new business?
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, what's what's the reality of it?
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, people need to know, don't they?
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: If they're gonna get into a job as a financial advisor, how much of their time is gonna be spent out there really networking, trying to build client relationships?
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: New ones.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think in the early, in the early days when when I first started business, it was kind of those splits.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it was more time spent prospecting, networking, um, and less time spent actually with reviews.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I think over time, um, you just get, I mean, if you get the right networks right, you just become so busy from the referrals you get in from the networks, and then you kind of outgrow those networks.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I spend more time now doing reviews and a lot less time networking because I just think the networks that I I was working with back then, I've built those solid relationships, and those solid relationships kind of provide me with enough from a day-to-day basis.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_02: But it's kind of it's kind of that thing where you still don't ever take your foot off the gas.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_02: So you're you're still consistently going, you know, you're still always, if you meet somebody, you still don't want to forget to advertise who you are and and what your business, what your business is and what you do, you know, you never take your foot off the gas as a as a business owner.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I think there comes that point in time where it does click and you think, actually, I've got to let a bit of that networking go and focus more now on my clients because in in the early days I was getting I became got into a situation where I was getting calls from clients say to hey, can you come and meet me?
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I was saying, Oh, I'm I'm gonna be at a networking you know, event, and that's not on because the whole reason why you're networking is to gain clients, so you've got to then strongly The right balance, and one has to give.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think definitely when you do get to that point, you kind of want to reduce the networking, that's too much.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like I started off with things like B and I, and and that just became too much for me in the end.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of you drop a certain number of things and you stick with the things that you you know that that's still working well for you, and but that's not taking up too much of your time.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I just think, yeah, I'm I'm definitely in the split now where I'm getting more calls from the networks that I've built.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't have to do as much networking, um, and the events as well.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_02: The events is is my network now.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I put on events, regular events, and I find that's how I reach out to my prospect clients who don't know about my business or what I do, um, and and that's how I add value to them, and and then they're interested, you know, to to do something about their finances that they know I can add value to.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: The events that you put on then, because you're quite into doing events, aren't you?
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, you're quite you like to stand up and present to people, talk to people, you know, where does that stem from?
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I prior to finances, I was in the entertainment.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I I was signed at a young age by a major label.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, cool.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, um, getting up on a stage was is like my I would say my first nature.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm never shy of you know getting up on stage and kind of rocking up.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it could work in the complete opposite for me.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes if I've got a smaller audience and it's just a a little handful of people, that can that can bring the nerves on.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_02: But you put me in front of a million people and it's like so for me, it's presenting and I had to just adjust.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was only an adjustment and only slight because one of the the good things, uh, feedbacks that I always get from my events is that I've never actually heard finance so you know light-hearted and and I wouldn't say funny because I'm not a comedian or anything like that, but I've never heard it in a way like um that just made me feel so relaxed and so comfortable and so interested, you know.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the good things I like hearing is that it just wasn't boring.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was interested, you know, and I think finances and talking about finances can seem quite boring, and you do have to like you know bring a bit of sex appeal to the to the financial industry and you know, jazz it up a bit.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I I might include you know music in my presentations, or you know, just get a feel of the crowd and kind of get them involved.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like I done a I'd done a thing where um I had an event, and funnily enough, this lady she she brought along her son with her.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_02: He must have been about, I don't know, eight years old.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_02: And he was the only like young boy in the in the audience.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was an audience full of um people.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_02: I done it in a university, and a number of people came along, there was hundreds of people there, and he was the only young boy in there.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, so I called him out on the stage and I said, uh, if you could come up here, I I want I want two, like, um, I want two people to come up, and I'm gonna give an example of two different people's lives.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I called up this lady, and she came up and I said, like, she earns 30 grand per year, I think it was, and he earns 100 grand, yeah, and he was well pleased with that.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, he put up the board and even 100 grand.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh the lady was like, Yeah, 30 grand, and and it was my what my uh analogy was in terms of how much each person saves.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_02: So the one that had 30 grand, they still kind of lived a very basic lifestyle.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_02: They was managed today, it was able to save about a thousand pounds a month.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_02: The person who earned a hundred grand, like he thought that he earned so much he didn't need to save, you know, he went on these luxury holidays, he had luxury cars, you know, he was living this lavish lifestyle, so didn't save that much.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_02: A couple years' time down the line, you know, they've both lost their job, like and literally can't get any job.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_02: The person who was saving a thousand pounds a month who was only earning 30,000 pounds, is now, you know, how much richer has now got like 50 grand, 100 grand in the bank.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_02: The person who was earning 100,000 has nothing.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_02: So and and what why that came about is because I just always get a lot of people from from early age in business is that, oh no, I need millions of pounds, you know, I need a lot of money, I need to be wealthy to come and sit down and see or see a financial advisor.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, why do you say that?
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what is the mindset behind you you saying that?
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because part of my my role is to build wealth and also manage wealth.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can only build wealth by starting from somewhere, so it really is starting from scratch, and a lot of the audience said, you know, that just hit home.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_02: I had never heard seen things like played out lightly.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that boy kind of said at the end, can I shake your hand?
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_02: And he wanted to take a picture with me.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_02: But he was just the cutest boy ever.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I was just like, no, and it's just little things like that.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I find I bring a lot of my entertainment background, I think it's just natural kind of to me, um, to when I'm presenting.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_02: So my presentations are quite different, I I feel, or what I've been told, from a lot of other financial presentations uh that you see.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I still make sure they get the right information that they need, but in a way that, you know, it's entertaining for them.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's got to be entertaining, it's got to be interesting, and you actually hit the nail on the head, it can be very boring, um, finance, you know, and um you know, it has to be engaging, it has to be entertaining, it has to connect connect with the audience.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_01: And like you, you know, you said your entertainment background, you love your entertainment, used to be a singer, uh you're assigned to a label, so you know, you're going out, you're networking, I assume, with with entertainment agents, like you said, you know.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you've got to be a little bit like that anyway, haven't you?
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to be a bit out there and be engaging because that's the type of audience that you're dealing with.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to relate to them.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_01: But everybody likes to be entertained, everybody likes to have a laugh and understand things and and you know, in a funny way, as opposed to all serious.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the bit that puts people off about money, is because it's the same thing.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'll hold my hand up, you know.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Your analogy was perfect.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think I shouldn't be talking to a financial advisor because I haven't got any money.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I haven't got enough money to speak to a financial advisor.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Why would they want to speak to me?
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I do forget, and it's and now financial advisors are starting to kind of turn it around and and and understand the audience a hell of a lot better and not look so much at the high net worth, you know, the high net worth client.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_01: There is a obviously that's a great model, get a little high net worth clients, you know.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a brilliant model.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_01: However, not everybody's like that, and a lot of people out there in Middle England need financial advice and actually want financial advice and probably don't have a problem with paying for it, but it's just how do you position it to those people?
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it has to be entertaining, it has to be engaging, and it has to be like using the mediums such as Instagram, etc., or Facebook, and small snippet videos and better marketing, better personal branding to be able to engage with those people.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are standing up on stage and you're talking about it, then I'm gonna remember you, and I'm gonna think, oh god, she made me feel really comfortable.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Warm's a word that came to mind when you're speaking, then you make me feel warm, okay.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a nice way to make somebody feel like trustworthy and warm.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, ah, she's not gonna judge me, you know, yeah, because I think money has it, there's a fear associated with money, isn't there?
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_01: In the sense that somebody's gonna like judge you, but not understanding.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I went through a phase at the moment with my business, and I've never really been involved in the finances side of the business.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I took it upon myself to really break it down, start doing some financial forecasting and all the things I never did before, and I had this fear come over me, like I'm not, I don't do this, I'm this isn't me, I'm I'm not very good with money.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And as soon as I did it, God, I loved it.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I absolutely loved it.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a lot simpler than I thought it would be.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And afterwards, knowing what I had going in and out of the next three months, just made me feel calm, like a fear of me.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a definite health and well-being positiveness that comes from financial well-being, you know, and you can and I can understand that now, and I'm definitely going to invest more in finance and more in um getting financial advice because I'm glad to hear I want to feel more comfortable about my future because I do, and I can't be the only one at 38 years old who's sitting there, probably not got much in his pension plan, hasn't really thought much about the future.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a few of us out there, and we do, as pointed out, the guy earning£100,000 a year just getting on holidays and having a laugh, you know.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_02: You do, um, and and people associate with um the more money that you earn, the more that you're able to save.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's not naturally true.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's and I can tell you that truthfully from from clients that I see, you know.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a lot of the times, sometimes the more money that you earn is the more that you spend, you know, and and and sometimes the more financial issues that you do have, because you almost get used to some some people get used to living this lifestyle that they they expect people to expect them to have, you know.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_02: So they take on massive debts regardless of the how much they're earning on a regular basis.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's important that you just you work with what you have.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that that's one of the main things.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_02: You you you've got to start from somewhere because if you if you always consistently put off until you're earning something, even when you until you're earning the level that you feel you should, even when you get there, you won't do those things, you won't do the right things.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas if you were already doing that from from with the little that you have, it will become natural when you do earn the money that you want to, that you will continue those those practices.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's what I try and encourage.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the that's the way forward, I think.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the whole health and well-being market's worth billions worldwide.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think financial advice has such a beautiful spot within that.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and and as I I'm seeing more financial advisors now taking on that personal brand and taking on that responsibility of being a financial well-being coach, and then coaching people.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're you and Emmanuel now connect to you.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and Emmanuel's great example of that, you know, social media presence.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's a great guy, lovely blade, funny.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_02: I know, love Emmanuel.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wicked way of putting his opinion across and and and getting people to understand things really simply, you know.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love the way you see going you go in a waitros, you know, because I like this joke about shopping in waitros, but you should be shopping in little, you know.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's just got a really lovely way about him, and I yeah, it's it's what people want to hear.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they want to they want to relate, don't they?
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they need it, and and people just need it a little bit simpler.
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Not everybody, you know, some people are quite financially savvy and they're just like just giving me the give me the raw facts.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I think a lot of people out there just want to connect and understand it and feel good about it and understand that it's okay to not be great at money because we're not getting taught and people aren't being taught it in schools or anything, you know, education is.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, and financial education is the way forward, isn't it, at the end of the day?
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people are investing quite heavily in that.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, your guys came out to us actually, a guy sat named Sam, I've kind of forgot his surname now, top load, came out, sat all my guys down and did a financial well-being presentation.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was really simple financial well-being presentation, but the guys in there, they come out and they were buzzing about it, you know.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_01: They've never had somebody come in and talk to them about just financial well-being.
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what a great route into businesses.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can I come in and teach your 25 staff about financial well-being?
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_01: A, you're probably going to build a great relationship with the business owner, aren't you?
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a potential client there for you.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, pension opportunities, yeah, you know, mortgage opportunities, life cover opportunities.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you, one really untapped market is recruitment.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many people in recruitment that earn good money very quickly and don't yeah, and don't actually know how to know what to do with it.
• 1:18:05
  SPEAKER_01: They don't get any advice, you know, they just go on nice holidays and all that kind of stuff, which yeah, fair enough.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't it's not, you know, my 11 and a half years of recruiting in the financial advice market, very few financial advisors have ever approached me about financial advice, and I'm a business owner.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_03: True.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like definitely untapped market, um, yeah, the recruitment industry.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've got some high rollers in there as well.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then you've got a lot, you know, but uh like me.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm on a podcast, mate.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be a high roller if I was on a podcast.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's so true.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_02: There's many, there's many industries like that, and and and even the entertainment and the sports industry is very much like that.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and you'd be surprised because you think these are individuals that earn you know millions of pounds.
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_02: That you you'd expect uh somebody to sit these people down and kind of say this is the best kind of plans, what you do with your money.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of the times there are cases where that doesn't happen and that falls through, and you know, so you just think why and how, but it does happen, and and that's why, as advisors, you've got to, you know, as you mentioned, be out there more providing that awareness, otherwise, nobody really knows that you exist sometimes.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_02: It is again it's something that they just don't think about.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great way to win, you know.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, and from so clients, I suppose as well, people kind of put them on ped put entertainers on pedestals as well, and probably think in the as a financial advisor, you probably think I've probably already got a financial advisor.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why do they want to speak to me?
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_01: They've probably already got some.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times they don't, and they don't, because possibly people are just fearful of asking for some business, aren't they?
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um do you I so and obviously that's beautiful because you're doing a job that you love and you always wanted to do it, and you've worked yourself up at the age of 16 years old.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're now working, and you did it, and you obviously had a stint within the entertainment industry with um with your singing.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, now you're networking and generating clients within the entertainment industry as well.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you're kind of really in your element now, aren't you?
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you get to that yeah, so you're quite a bit of a lot of things.
• 1:20:09
  SPEAKER_00: And where it is, that kind of thing.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I couldn't ask for uh for a better role.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of merged both of my passions into one.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I also really feel like I'm putting back because the a lot of these individuals, especially that they get into their professions from very young ages as well.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so sometimes the only professionals that I I come across that are are good with managing their money is when their parents are very good and their parents are on board.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but again, that's not always the case.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not really their agent's role to manage their finances or to recommend.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Some agents are really good and they do.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, other agents, it's all about the contracts, and once they've signed that contract, it's like, hey, this is your money, you go ahead and do whatever you want with it.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's fine to buy the nice sports cars and it's fine to do the luxury things, but what happens for you later on in life when you need to retire early, or if you have an injury and your career gets cut short and you're and you're no longer like, for instance, a footballer, then you're no longer useful as a footballer.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_02: What happens to your career?
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because you you're no longer getting paid.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's very rare that you see entertainment professionals or sports professionals go into you know a normal job, they're not going to get a job in in waitros or something like that.
• 1:21:35
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna see them in your local supermarket.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's very difficult, and that's why when things do happen to those kind of professionals, they go into depression or they they become bankrupt because there was nobody around to provide that financial advice when it was needed.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I always try and get in with the professionals when they're at their quite their early stages when they're signing contracts, you know, and I sit down with their parents and their agents, and we really come to a solid plan together.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, I feel like I've kind of definitely put back because I feel a lot of people kind of block them away because they think, oh, they're individuals that earn a lot of money, but their careers are very short.
• 1:22:16
  SPEAKER_02: So when you spread out that money over a long term, if you were stretching it out maybe to the average age of 65 or 68 when the average public retires, yes, there's still a huge difference, but it's not it's not as great as you would expect it to be.
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so sometimes sometimes they're short-lived, their careers aren't, you know, they go into it, they put themselves on the line.
• 1:22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, they might earn a lot of money for say five years, but then they're yesterday's news, and all of a sudden, like you said, you know, it's gonna be bloody, they probably do spiral down to a bit of kind of you know depression and yeah, uh and you know, and thinking, well, what the hell am I gonna do with my life now?
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, imagine you know, you you obviously know, but like footballers or or rugby players that get an injury.
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how devastating that must be at a young age.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_01: To and and and you see a lot of rugby guys and you see a lot of footballers go into financial advice and they they they have a really good time of financial advice, they do really well.
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, because they've got that network in the inner circle, and then yeah, they talk the language.
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_02: They're already built that trust, yeah.
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_02: And they're also that's a done deal.
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And they're a prime example of what could go possibly wrong, aren't they?
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_01: And they can kind of talk about that and relate to them.
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the fact that you're going in there at that early level in their career, and I think that's a really good, it's a really kind of you know, that's good foresight, you know.
• 1:23:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's and you're playing that long game again as well.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not sitting there thinking, I just want to make a quick buck.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're thinking to yourself, well, where am I gonna be in five, ten years time?
• 1:23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Where are they gonna be in five, ten years time?
• 1:23:41
  SPEAKER_01: You want to be throughout their career living, you know, being giving them advice throughout their life events, don't you?
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, that's cool.
• 1:23:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a that's a nice way to put it.
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Network, network, network.
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you're about, isn't it?
• 1:23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so true.
• 1:23:53
  SPEAKER_02: And network.
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_02: And and as you mentioned, if you've got that relatability, um, you you can relate to those individuals as well.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_02: So especially from the entertainment kind of side, you know, I've been there, and again, I I can vouch that there was nobody ever to sit me down when I had contracts signed to say this is what you do, you know, with with with money.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_02: And and now entertainers are exposed to so much more money than I was um at when I uh got signed because you know they've got you've got things like YouTube and all those other kinds of avenues for income now.
• 1:24:24
  SPEAKER_02: So they're exposed to so much, so much more avenues of earning an income.
• 1:24:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and again, there's there's nobody, there's there's there's not a structure in place in that industry that says this is what you must do.
• 1:24:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's quite sad because these individuals are very young and and their mind is just gonna think, you know, all go.
• 1:24:45
  SPEAKER_02: They're not gonna sit down and think about finance, financial advice unless somebody puts it to them and in a way that they can relate to it.
• 1:24:53
  SPEAKER_02: So so that's where I add the advantage.
• 1:24:56
  SPEAKER_01: But being chartered as well, does that help?
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you know.
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually want to point out here, you are the first chartered, um, the first black chartered female financial advisor, or just the first black chartered financial advisor?
• 1:25:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's a tongue, it's a tongue twister.
• 1:25:11
  SPEAKER_02: It is that's it, that's the one.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's the one.
• 1:25:16
  SPEAKER_02: The first black and the first black female chartered financial planner.
• 1:25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 1:25:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a great one.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's an amazing achievement.
• 1:25:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, as a you know, as a role model as well for diversity within the industry.
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that should be shouted about.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Was that shouted about?
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_01: What did you feature in any kind of magazines or was that promoted in any way at all?
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know?
• 1:25:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean, I I got a lot of I got a lot of huge um support and I think likes and things on social media platforms, especially on LinkedIn.
• 1:25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had a lot of uh professionals, you know, reaching out to me, which was really warming, um, other like-minded financial professionals, other chartered financial planners, you know, just saying well done, congratulations, and that was great.
• 1:26:03
  SPEAKER_02: But I think with the financial industry, that there is a limit on sometimes the the exposure um of advisors, and I think it's only quite new that you are seeing a lot of uh you know, financial advisors, as you mentioned, like on the Instagram or or doing things out there where people can see.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think we've come a long way in terms of actually showing people that this is a real profession, it's not just you trying to sell you something, you know, that that that is not worthy of being sold.
• 1:26:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a real profession, and and we are, I call myself like a financial doctor, you know, it's kind of like you you'd need to see me when you've got something wrong with your finances, and I help you manage that going forward.
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's come a long way, and I think things like chartered is really putting it on the map there to kind of it's not it's not their standard.
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's going above and beyond what the actual standard for a financial advisor is because you still only need a level four to practice, but it's it it really is proving that you know it is a profession.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's shown more credibility out there around the profession and more exposure.
• 1:27:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but no, in in terms of your in terms of your answer to your question, in like published in magazines or anything like that.
• 1:27:25
  SPEAKER_02: No, there's been not that exposure as of yet.
• 1:27:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when I got I had a manual on the podcast actually, and we talked about this.
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I know that recently you guys have um come together and yes formed um the Association of Black Financial Profession Professionals.
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Professionals, that's correct.
• 1:27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell me about the Association of Black Prof Black tongue twisted today?
• 1:27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell me about the Association of Black Financial Professionals?
• 1:27:53
  SPEAKER_01: What's it what is it?
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_01: What is it about?
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, ABFP.
• 1:27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think I can speak on behalf of ABF.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_02: ABFP and state that it's the voice, you know, of black financial professionals in the UK and a support network more than anything, because I think there's a lot of things going around in major corporation companies right now in terms of diversity and the gap that diversity has, not only with race, but also with women and a number of other things.
• 1:28:25
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of that, and I'm on quite a few boards, the BA BAME boards, and St.
• 1:28:30
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place in particular, as well.
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of the things that I get back and feedback that I get, you know, especially from another maybe black professional or professional or financial professional of colour, is that we've we've gone through similar kind of challenges within the career, within our careers in terms of, you know, sometimes you've got some individuals who say state that they they felt like they they wasn't included enough, or you've got other individuals who felt like they didn't, well they weren't able to reach their peak, or they weren't able to reach their progression.
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that personally hasn't been that for me, but it's kind of you can definitely relate to the different challenges that a number of people face.
• 1:29:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's important that you have a network that is that is a voice and of reason, you know, that speaks, that the individuals can actually feel that actually there is a home that I can actually go and feel comfortable to express my concerns and things that I've gone through, and hopefully somebody with a like mind could also support me in that journey.
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_02: So there isn't there isn't anything out there like that.
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_02: So again, it's kind of a first, um, and it's it's still in its grassroots stages, but again, it's got a huge amount of support from it so far, and so much professionals has come through, you know, again to us and congratulated and said, This is fantastic, you know, this is big, um, it's something that I wish was around when I started off in my early career.
• 1:30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Again, just for just for a voice, just for a knockback and say, okay, I'm going through this.
• 1:30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Is that something that anybody similar has gone through that also?
• 1:30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that's important, you know, because again, still, especially while um uh black professionals are minority in the industry, I think it's important that they have somewhere that they have a voice and they have a support system that they can feel that they can excel to the best of their abilities.
• 1:30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:30:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's what ABFP is about.
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_01: So a safe place.
• 1:30:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, regardless of you know, safe place, that's a good one.
• 1:30:39
  SPEAKER_01: A safe place, you know, it's a great place that people can go and speak about that subject if they feel that they're getting prejudiced or anything like that within the workspace, if they don't feel they're getting because of their colour, that they can go and talk about it.
• 1:30:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose it's not a place where everyone bitches, you know, is it?
• 1:30:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's a place where people not at all.
• 1:30:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's a place where people learn from each other and get perhaps get their thinking right, you know, perhaps get thinking right sided as well, because sometimes it's it it's it's not about race or anything, is it?
• 1:31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's about it could be about something else, and you might take it the wrong the wrong way, and I think that's the same with everybody, isn't it?
• 1:31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, regardless of whether you know colour or anything like that, we can kind of sometimes think we're being someone's having a pop at us when actually it's probably us, you know.
• 1:31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but so true.
• 1:31:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's having that network to tell you that well, I don't actually think it's that because I was in that similar boat.
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's more you know, X, Y, and Z.
• 1:31:32
  SPEAKER_02: So you're totally right.
• 1:31:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of in that place where you know you can feel comfortable because even a lot of people on the um St.
• 1:31:41
  SPEAKER_02: James's place, I give that as an example um uh board, they just felt like, yeah, this is this is brilliant.
• 1:31:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's even fantastic that a lot of corporate companies has even recognized that they need to do things like you know, have it have a diversity kind of meetings, encouraging more people.
• 1:32:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um for instance, St.
• 1:32:02
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place celebrated Black History Month uh this year, well last year, and and I I done a short little video for that with a few other professionals.
• 1:32:11
  SPEAKER_02: But again, it's just the start of something brilliant, I think.
• 1:32:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think we um we all live in a world where we all want to be treated fairly, regardless of who we are as an individual or how weird somebody might be.
• 1:32:24
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody wants to be um uh treated as as just human as you are.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Inclusivity, isn't it?
• 1:32:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's that's the big thing, isn't it?
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's diversity, but it's inclusivity, it's making sure that everybody's included, you know, everybody's welcome, you know, yeah.
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_01: For any reason.
• 1:32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um and if we've got the ability to to talk to people um in a safe and secure way and share our worries, fears, ideas or thoughts, um, then that's only good, isn't it?
• 1:32:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I think as well, having something like that in place as well, you're gonna bring a lot of people together who can talk about the industry as a whole, but all the positives about it, and be able to then go out and attract you know younger black people to the financial services industry, which perhaps they didn't ever think that that was a route that they wanted to go down.
• 1:33:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you mentioned you mentioned doctor before, and Emmanuel said like within his community it was always doctors and lawyers and never really financial advice.
• 1:33:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that is as a whole, anyway.
• 1:33:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think black, white, Asian, whatever, I don't think I don't think anyone comes out of school and goes, I want to be a financial advisor, you know.
• 1:33:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, they don't.
• 1:33:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the last thing they think.
• 1:33:43
  SPEAKER_01: But if you've got somebody coming in who's a bit, you know, a bit cool like yourself, Michaela, you can go into a university and talk about the realities of doing the job.
• 1:33:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess this is what this podcast is about as well.
• 1:33:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's about sort of sharing the realities of it.
• 1:33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, putting some putting somebody who's in who's in there doing the job and just saying, look, you know, you can do this, you can go out there, you can have a great lifestyle, you can give financial advice to entertainers, you can build a business that's yours.
• 1:34:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's loads of opportunity out there.
• 1:34:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's bugger all financial advisors out there at the moment.
• 1:34:09
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a better time to become a financial advisor.
• 1:34:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many clients out there that need advice, and you've got so many platforms to do it off of, you know, and guess what you can build within 30 years?
• 1:34:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can build an amazing business that gives you a level of recurring income and a lifestyle you could probably only dream of, you know, and it's gonna just take a little bit of time to get there.
• 1:34:27
  SPEAKER_01: But hey, I'm the living proof, I'm doing it, I'm doing the job, you know, and that's all we need to share, really, because otherwise people just get you know, got his view of the industry as being really boring, and you know don't get me wrong, it's boring parts of every job, isn't it?
• 1:34:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, but it's and if that awareness is not created, then yeah nobody knows.
• 1:34:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's almost as if your efforts in the industry and and your time goes unknown, as as you kind of mentioned, and and you don't want that because you want to encourage.
• 1:34:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm really passionate about you know, encouraging even personally more young females into financial services, and I do a lot around that as well in my spare time, you know, just taking time out, mentoring, doing um workshops and things like that, and and also taking the time out to to to feedback with with messages that I get from young females, you know, I get a lot.
• 1:35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's so aspiring, you know, to see somebody like yourself and doing doing great things, and I think, oh hey, thank you.
• 1:35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but let me show you.
• 1:35:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's not been as as I mentioned.
• 1:35:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I started from from the bottom and worked my way to where I am.
• 1:35:37
  SPEAKER_02: So if it can be done from from me, then it surely can be done from yourself.
• 1:35:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really just yeah, just do it as much as you can.
• 1:35:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think, especially somebody, especially with the title now, as like you know, the first black chartered female financial planner.
• 1:35:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's definitely given me that push to kind of say, hey, if that is the case, it's great to get that title, but also what why is it taking all this time, you know, for for somebody to become the first?
• 1:36:10
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it's kind of like I need to potentially do something as an advisor in the position that I am to encourage more, but also create more awareness.
• 1:36:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that we are in the industry as as as as as um just like as you mentioned with Emmanuel.
• 1:36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Emmanuel's doing great things, you know, in terms of showing what an advisor, an advisor doesn't have to be that typical person, you know, it could be somebody who's funny, it could be somebody who's relatable and lighthearted.
• 1:36:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of just putting that awareness out there.
• 1:36:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think he's even done a great job in terms of creating uh the awareness with the platforms that he has uh to people who may never have thought about finance before.
• 1:36:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and and whether they become clients or not, um they're more educated financially, and the more financially educated people we have, um the the more financially educated the future generations will be.
• 1:37:10
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and again, it's not taught in schools, so it's down to individuals like financial advisors to do as much as they can in their part to educate the nation, as I say, because otherwise, who else does it?
• 1:37:25
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody else who's gonna do it who has no qualifications.
• 1:37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what?
• 1:37:28
  SPEAKER_01: You well, look at Martin Lewis has got no qualifications, and yet he's like the financial guru, isn't he?
• 1:37:33
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like the highlight of the UK.
• 1:37:35
  SPEAKER_02: So exactly.
• 1:37:36
  SPEAKER_01: I say what you you've not got a financial aspect.
• 1:37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you've not got a better time than right now, Michaela, to do that.
• 1:37:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what you're saying then, what you're saying is is about being an influencer, you know, and you've put yourself into a position where you've worked incredibly hard, you've become the first, you know, black chartered financial planner.
• 1:37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you're in a you're you're you're you're young in your career, become an influencer.
• 1:38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Influence people, but you're doing it anyway.
• 1:38:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm starting to watch you, and you're really coming out, and you're doing way more social media than you were doing, and you know, your presence is out there.
• 1:38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Keep on doing it, and it'll snowball because the more people see you, the more you'll be remembered, and the more people, and you're absolutely right, some people are going to look at you and go, Oh wow, man, that job looks really cool.
• 1:38:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't quite know whether or not you're influencing that person throughout their life to make a decision to move into a career that might be better for them and give them a really good, a good position in life, you know.
• 1:38:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think it's about being responsible around being an influencer, ensuring that you choose language which is easy to understand that anybody can anybody can take on, and that you get your message out there far and wide and um continue what you're doing because um you are definitely warm, you're lovely to talk to, you know, your background, your career is is one of hard work, dedication, it doesn't come easy.
• 1:38:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love it that you're talking about network, network, network.
• 1:38:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's something I've taken from today.
• 1:38:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do enough networking, and since I've been doing this like podcast, and since I've been reaching out this way, I'm meeting way more people, and I find that people come to me, you know, like the laws of attraction, and people talk about the laws of attraction, right?
• 1:39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so I'm putting myself out there, I'm having better conversations with people.
• 1:39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now I might walk away from that conversation over the phone right an hour later, think I didn't really get any, I didn't really get anything out.
• 1:39:18
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't get a candidate out of that, I didn't get a job out of that, or anything like that.
• 1:39:20
  SPEAKER_01: What I got was some some we got a connection, and then a couple of days later, I'm speaking to them again, you know, you know, and I'm and I'm and I'm you know, maybe to come on the podcast, and you know, and it's just I don't know, I'm just I'm just building a network of people around me now, and we're we're having different conversations and we're different opportunities are coming up for me.
• 1:39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm gonna definitely persevere and continue to network.
• 1:39:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think you should.
• 1:39:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think your your posts and your podcast is a brilliant idea, and again, it's a platform not only um financial advisors can use to get out there, but it's also enlightening individuals as to what the life of a financial planner looks like, and not only the general public, but also financial planners.
• 1:40:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I think other financial planners need to do more work with.
• 1:40:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've I've dropped that competitiveness now that I had when I was in the bank because I just think we're in the same boat and there's enough, as you mentioned, there's only 20,000 plus advisors service in the whole UK millions population, you know.
• 1:40:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we're not having to fight um over individuals, so there's no longer that competitiveness there.
• 1:40:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the more that the more avenues that financial planners have to actually learn from each other, and that's brilliant.
• 1:40:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, hats off to you for initiating something like this.
• 1:40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Nice one, Michaela.
• 1:40:47
  SPEAKER_01: You made me feel warm again.
• 1:40:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I do.
• 1:40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Nice one.
• 1:40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, listen, well, listen, thanks so much for your time today.
• 1:40:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna call it we're gonna call it to an end here, but thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we're staying we'll stay in contact, and I'll um I'll continue to like your posts on social media and good luck with everything.
• 1:41:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we'll get this shared and um and see what the listeners think, all right?
• 1:41:08
  SPEAKER_02: More honey and lemon for that.
• 1:41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:41:12
  SPEAKER_01: Hey listen, have a good um afternoon, and I'll I'll I'll catch up with you shortly, okay?
• 1:41:16
  SPEAKER_02: You too, Sam.
• 1:41:17
  SPEAKER_02: Speak to you soon.
• 1:41:18
  SPEAKER_02: Nice one, mate.
• 1:41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Ciao, bye.