Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Hocus Pocus 2 with Costume Designer, Salvador Perez

Transcript

Hocus Pocus 2 with Costume Designer, Salvador Perez · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:11
And then we had our first video and she just fell in love with a
0:14
costume. I mean, she was, I don't know
0:16
what she expected, but I don't think she's going to get this.
0:18
And then we had made the Cape extra long thinking like, well,
0:21
we'll find out what the perfect media is and we'll cut it.
0:23
I'm like, I'm gonna cut like 3 feet of this off and she's like,
0:26
don't you dad? Hello and welcome to the Art of
0:44
Costume Podcast. I am your host, Spencer
0:47
Williams, and thank you so much for joining me for another
0:50
special episode. Hey, costume nerds.
0:54
I hope everyone is doing well and staying dry.
0:57
Yesterday, if you live in California, we had quite the
1:02
dramatic day. I mean, we had Hurricane Hillary
1:05
sweep on through, which was, you know, interesting.
1:08
I love a good storm, which was then followed by an earthquake.
1:12
I mean, what was going on yesterday?
1:14
It was so wild. But you know, it's been a while
1:18
since we've spoken. And actually, Elizabeth and I
1:20
haven't been in the studio for a little while now during the WJ
1:25
and SAG AFTRA strikes. To say it's been a hard time for
1:29
an industry would be an understatement.
1:31
And we're still going to continue providing as much
1:34
resources as possible to help others learn more about the
1:37
strike efforts, how you can help, and especially where you
1:40
can donate, such as the Entertainment Community Fund
1:43
which was set up to meet the needs.
1:45
Of our entertainment community with a unique understanding of
1:48
the challenges involved in a life and the arts.
1:52
The episodes you've been hearing were prerecorded, of course
1:55
before to strike, including the interview you're about to listen
1:58
to. But with that being said, we've
2:01
had some great conversations lately with some of you, the
2:04
audience, as well as our friends and unions, and we recognize how
2:08
important it is, what we do at the Art of Costume, which is to
2:12
highlight costume designers and their crew.
2:14
Talented people who often do not get the equity wages or credit
2:19
that they deserve. So I'm happy to say that
2:22
Elizabeth, Daniel and I are getting back in the studio,
2:25
actually starting, I think this weekend to come back to you all
2:29
with Brand new to Art of Costume podcast episodes.
2:33
Better yet, I'm happy to reveal what those upcoming episodes
2:36
are. So first, next week on August
2:40
28th, we have one more prerecord interview I want to share with
2:43
you all. Did you all see beef with Ali
2:46
Wong and Steven yen? It is so good that costumes are
2:50
brilliant. Costume designer Helen Wong, who
2:53
was just nominated for an Emmy, she will be joining me to
2:56
discuss all of those costumes, so look out for that.
2:59
After our beef episode. We will then have a week off
3:03
with no new episode, but starting in September, September
3:08
12th. Elizabeth and I will be back for
3:11
a brand new episode discussing the costumes of one of our
3:15
favorite films. Probably the best way to
3:17
celebrate our return than with the biggest party, Mama Mia.
3:22
I know it's going to be so fun and we're getting ready to
3:25
record it in just a few days and I'm just so excited to.
3:29
Get into all these costumes. You know, we saw a costume
3:32
designer Anne Roth and Barbie and Elizabeth and I just felt
3:35
inspired to dive into the incredible career of Anne Roth.
3:38
So I'm excited to get into all of that.
3:40
And just so you know, there is a Barbie episode coming soon, but
3:44
we're going to wait on that for a little while.
3:46
The week after that, on September 19th, costume designer
3:50
Tracy Gigi Field, my friend will be here to talk about the
3:53
costumes of one of my favorite shows, Poker Face.
3:56
It is brilliant. You will fall in love the show.
3:59
Natasha Lyonne is so good in it and the costumes are just top
4:04
tier master class costumes in the week following poker face.
4:09
How many of you have seen the righteous gemstones?
4:12
I love this show. I just binged all three seasons
4:16
and it is so good. I cannot believe this show is
4:18
not talked about more. The costumes are top tier.
4:21
Sarah Trust did the costumes for seasons one and two.
4:25
Master Class Costuming Season 3 on the other hand just finished
4:30
and it was such a great season. Costume designer Christina
4:33
Flannery will be joining us to talk all about those costumes.
4:37
You are going to love this interview.
4:40
It is so fun. Righteous gemstones.
4:43
You got to watch it. You will thank me later.
4:46
After that, we will then be going into October, which is of
4:49
course the beginning of our spooky season.
4:52
And I am actually not going to share with you those episodes
4:55
just yet because I just want the spooky surprise of it all.
5:00
But all I can say is this is probably going to be our best
5:03
spooky season and I can't imagine how we could ever top
5:06
it. I mean, honestly, Elizabeth,
5:08
Daniel and I are just so stoked about it.
5:10
We have two amazing guests joining us in October and it is
5:15
going to be, I would probably some of my favorite episodes
5:18
we've ever done on a podcast, so be ready for that.
5:22
So we have a lot of fun, exciting things coming down and
5:26
I hope you will all join us, continue in your support.
5:30
We appreciate all of you, we love you, and I'm just excited
5:34
to get into more incredible costume design.
5:38
So with that, let's get into today's interview.
5:41
Today we are of course talking all about Hocus Pocus, two such
5:47
a fun film. I mean, how could you not love
5:50
Hocus Pocus? It is just everything.
5:52
It's so colorful, so fun. The music's incredible.
5:56
Of course, our Sanderson sisters are iconic, just as iconic in
6:01
Hocus Pocus 2. I'm so excited again to all
6:03
these costumes. But first we got again to our
6:06
summary. Hocus Pocus 2.
6:09
It's been 29 years since someone lit the black flame candle and
6:13
resurrected the 17th century Sanderson sisters, and they are
6:17
looking for revenge. Now is up to three high school
6:21
students to stop the ravenous witches from wreaking a new kind
6:24
of havoc on Salem before dawn on All Hollows Eve.
6:29
And that is hocus pocus 2. Diving behind the costumes, we
6:33
have director Ann Fletcher and costume designer Salvador Perez.
6:39
You will know Salvador from some of his work in Pitch Perfect.
6:42
Never have I Ever The Mindy Project, for which he was
6:45
nominated for an Emmy senior year, The Sex Lives of College
6:49
Girls, and so much more. Such an incredible career.
6:53
His most recent film was, of course, Hocus Pocus 2, for which
6:56
he was nominated for a Costume Designers Guild Award and now an
7:00
Emmy, an Outstanding Fantasy Scifi costume so well deserved.
7:04
Salvador Perez is someone who I've always wanted to interview,
7:08
so when Hocus Pocus 2 dropped and he started racking in those
7:13
nominations, I just knew this was finally my chance to talk to
7:16
him and learn more about his career and his process.
7:19
So. Please enjoy.
7:47
I am so pleased to welcome that costume designer Salvador Perez.
7:51
Hey, Salvador. Hi.
7:53
How's it going? It's going so good.
7:55
I'm so excited. When I talked to you, we were
7:56
talking behind the scenes, but I run into you all the time.
7:59
But I've never gone to actually do this.
8:00
So I'm so excited. I'm glad to be here.
8:02
Thank you. Well, first congratulations are
8:06
in order. How does it feel to be nominated
8:08
for this award by all your peers?
8:10
It's it's so flattering. I mean, you know, you you you do
8:13
work and you do it for the fun of doing the work, but when your
8:15
peers recognize it, it just, you know, it's icing on the cake.
8:19
Right. And with that, there's also more
8:22
good news. I just found out that The Mindy
8:24
Project is now coming to Netflix, which is also pretty
8:27
cool. A whole new generation of people
8:29
get to see some of your famous work, Mindy, call me around
8:33
Christmas. She's like, they're going to
8:34
launch relaunch mini project on Netflix.
8:37
And we and she took a big chunk of the archives of costumes.
8:41
So we went through the archives and she put on some of her old
8:44
dresses to do the promo for the show coming out.
8:47
So it's sort of nice to revisit old friends.
8:49
Yeah, I love it. And so many more people are
8:51
going to be able to watch the show now too, which is so
8:53
exciting. So you know, I actually bench
8:55
watch. I had a week off and I watched
8:57
the entire seat. Took me a full week though,
8:58
because you know, nowadays you do a show and it's like 810
9:02
episodes. Which I think Mindy Kaling is
9:08
famous for talking about, too, how she loves doing those 24
9:11
episodes compared to all these shows with the 8 episodes.
9:02
We would do 24 or 26 episodes in a season.
9:04
So that was all. All right.
9:17
But it's time to talk about Hocus Pocus, too.
9:19
I mean, I can't imagine the excitement you had when you
9:22
realize that you're actually doing Hocus Pocus, too.
9:25
I mean just. Ground level.
9:27
What was that feeling like? Well, the first emotion was
9:31
excitement and then the second one is horror like, Oh my God,
9:34
what's that take on? I mean look it's an like Mary
9:37
vote you know you we have to credit Mary vote first and
9:39
foremost the customs out of the original film.
9:42
She set the the groundwork for what I did and when I got the
9:46
call for the meeting, I'm like, well why is it Mary vote doing
9:49
this And I've been on the board for years with Mary and so I
9:53
called up Mary and I'm like, hey David, what are you doing?
9:54
I'm like I heard. A little rumor.
9:58
I'm like, I've had a meeting on Hocus Pocus, too.
10:00
Are you, are you doing this? I'm not going to interview
10:02
against you. And she's like, oh, no, I'm not
10:03
interested in doing that. You know, I don't want to repeat
10:05
my work 30 years later. And so she's like, so go, you
10:07
know, by all means, you know, go take the meeting.
10:09
Because I just said if I wasn't going to take a meeting, if I
10:11
was an interview against her because I go, well, that's just
10:13
ridiculous. And then we also, she talked,
10:15
you know, a little bit about how she did the costumes back then
10:19
and you know what the techniques she used.
10:21
And so I sort of got a background in them.
10:24
And then there's a million articles about her talking about
10:26
it. So I knew the sort of background
10:27
of the costumes. And then I went into the meeting
10:31
with that information. And then having to, you know,
10:34
then there was a lot of edicts from the studio, like you can't
10:36
change the concept of the costume, but we want them.
10:39
We want them new and different, but you can't change them.
10:42
I'm like okay. And so then then, and the
10:47
director and Fletcher was like, everything has to have a
10:50
meaning. You don't just arbitrarily put
10:52
something on it. Let's have a meaning.
10:53
And so we talked about, like, what the symbols were on the
10:56
costumes of where everything had a meaning and where it came
10:59
from. And like the original costumes,
11:03
bets cost, Excuse me, what if it's costume was printed?
11:06
There was a sort of a print technique.
11:08
And I thought, well, it's 1650s, you know, we could have done
11:11
lavish embroidery. And so I went and started
11:13
investigating embroidery and find out how expensive it was.
11:18
But then when I got the samples, I'm like, I don't care.
11:21
It's so beautiful. I mean, like, once they showed
11:23
me the sample. Sylvia's costumes are the
11:25
samples of them. I'm like, Oh my God, this is
11:26
stunning. Screw it.
11:28
Spend the money. It's waiting for Anderson.
11:30
So you know and and it was a multi step process because of
11:34
course beating is difficult, beating on velvet is the most
11:37
difficult thing you can ask for. I didn't know that at the time.
11:41
And so they said we cannot normally you do like a chalk
11:44
pattern for the to to mark the beating and then you and then
11:47
you embroider it, but you can't do that on velvet.
11:49
So like how do we mark all of this?
11:51
And so then I went to Francine Akultra, and she's a silk screen
11:54
artist. And I know that she's printed on
11:55
velvet before. So I'm like, can you do a very
11:58
faint gold silk screening on the fabric?
12:01
And she's like, yes, we did experiments and we kind of
12:03
figured out a way to do it because it was the only way to
12:05
get the consistency on them. But it was like just the steps
12:08
to get here. Like we we didn't like, we
12:10
couldn't do a dark, dark green. And so we just showed bet
12:13
samples and she fell in love with this sort of like deep
12:15
Chartreuse. And then we so we bought a
12:18
bright green velvet that we over dyed Chartreuse and then it went
12:22
to Francine and she silkscreened it all.
12:24
And then once. And then once it was silkscreen,
12:26
we took it to another pattern maker who would thread mark the
12:29
pattern pieces. And then it would go to
12:30
Sylvia's. Sylvia would embroider this and
12:33
then this would go to western costume and the costume shop.
12:35
Western costume made it and then it would come back to us and
12:39
then we would add the last bits of development crystals and age
12:42
it. So it was like the steps that it
12:44
took to get there was months of work and I planned on making
12:48
eight of each costume, but vets coats were so expensive I could
12:52
eke out seven. And then it was just, it was
12:56
like the details of finding all of the fabric and like in the
12:58
original costume there was sort of like a funny gauze in the
13:01
sleeves. And then I found this last bolt
13:04
and there's no more in the world of this purple and green
13:07
iridescent silk chiffon at mood. And they had two shades of it.
13:12
And I said, well, let's use those two shades and we have
13:14
just enough to the seven coats. But it was very sort of kismet
13:17
and finding all of these fabrics and that was just bet.
13:20
I mean and of course we had the, the, the brooch remade and the
13:23
original brooch were two snakes going in the same direction.
13:28
And the lieber and me, that drives me crazy.
13:29
They should have been opposing direction.
13:32
I went to a jeweler to have them made and then I thought, why is
13:35
it a snake? And then I wanted to give it a
13:38
lower. So we came up with this, this
13:39
brooch that's a moon, a star in the forest.
13:43
And I wanted to harken to the original which had the malachite
13:45
stone. And even finding that malachite
13:47
stone is in the middle of the pandemic where we happen to be
13:51
in Providence, RI, which back in the 60s and 70s, Providence RI
13:55
was the jewelry, the costume jewelry manufacturing hub of the
13:58
United States. So the place that had old stones
14:03
from the 60s and 70s. And I went in and I found the
14:06
exact size Malachite and the exact size I need for a dollar a
14:11
piece. Stop it.
14:12
It was just like it was very there was a sort of like karmic
14:15
universe like putting things in front of me and and that that's
14:18
what that virtue was there. And then we actually did two of
14:20
them and we put the we had the fitting with bet she's like it's
14:23
just too bulky. I just want one.
14:24
I'm like, OK. And then you look at them like
14:26
it makes sense, like it it sort of organically became what it
14:29
was. And if you just if you blink and
14:31
see the movie, you think it's the same costume, it's just the
14:34
details are a little richer, a little more defined.
14:37
Also, the patterns are all hearkened to the three moons,
14:40
the three goddesses, and there's a symbolism in there and in the
14:44
the details that tell the story of the witches.
14:48
Wow, it's it's so beautiful and I was blown away when I saw
14:51
them. So then my question to you, you
14:53
know, we all love Mary Vote. It's iconic what she did.
14:57
So then when you're paying tribute to her costumes, how are
15:00
you then adding your own, you know, Salvador Perez kind of
15:03
style on these costumes without, you know, going too far away
15:07
from what everyone loves. But also you still want to make
15:09
it your own too. Well, yes.
15:11
I mean, and that was the thing. Is that so changing the, you
15:14
know, if the things that just sort of organically happen, like
15:16
the color change that the way I finished the, the trim, the
15:19
chiffons I use on it, the fabrics I used, I having the
15:24
knowledge of what Mary did and why she did it.
15:25
Like when I asked her about what the symbolism meant, she's like,
15:28
oh, we just made-up things we didn't want to be negatives.
15:30
We just sort of made-up our own symbolism.
15:32
My symbol that she didn't really give any meaning.
15:34
I thought, well, OK, what would I have done 30 years later?
15:36
So I started to put myself in her brain.
15:38
It's like, well, if I had 30 years to think about the
15:40
costume, what would I have done? So I'm like, that's why I was
15:42
like, well, I can justify that these symbols had a meaning now.
15:47
And also there's the fact that in the last movie, which is
15:50
disintegrated, right, they went purgatory and came back.
15:55
So if their customs disintegrated and they had to go
15:58
to a tailor and say make me new ones, would they be identical or
16:01
would they be there remembering of what they were 30 years
16:04
before? Oh, that's so interesting.
16:06
It's kind of a mind explosion. Yeah.
16:08
We sort of rationalized like, well, remember you saw them
16:10
disappear, so their clothes disappeared because before they
16:13
were resurrected from the dead and this time they disappeared.
16:22
I mean, it's hocus pocus. So that's I'm like, well, you
16:17
know you can if you're as long as it's a it's a witch movie, so
16:20
you can take any fantasy and make it a reality.
16:23
No one's going to really dive too deep into the plot here.
16:27
And I have to say like when the when the fans first saw glimpses
16:30
of the costumes and it was like bad blurry photos in the
16:32
background. I, you know, I read the comments
16:34
and it was pretty negative and people was like, oh how dare
16:37
they change them and they don't look identical And and then of
16:40
course once people saw the costumes in the film and they
16:43
got to see the details like their their attitudes change.
16:46
Right. Like, just give it a second.
16:48
Yeah, like, wait till you see them and you see that.
16:51
I had they're like, they look so cheap.
16:52
I'm like, Oh my God, do you have any idea what that embroidery
16:55
cost? You could have bought a car.
16:57
You could have bought a car with an embroidery cost.
16:59
And then you have to make multiples too.
17:01
What a nightmare. And it was fun finding the
17:04
workmen to do it because it was like it was so many hands.
17:07
Like, you know, I couldn't just go to one place and have it all
17:09
done. Like everything, took many, many
17:11
hands. Right.
17:13
They're just so stunning. I personally love Sarah's look.
17:16
The embroidery on her corset is just so beautiful.
17:21
Well, and that again the original corset was made with
17:26
store bought embroidered fabric machine embroidered in the
17:30
1600s. You would have had it
17:31
embroidered per piece. And so I went to Eric Winterling
17:34
and God bless, Eric has a phenomenal workroom.
17:36
He's amazing. And I showed him sort of the
17:38
samples of what I wanted and I found him a few original pieces
17:41
from the 1600s. And I'm like, I love this
17:42
embroidery. And then we started working on a
17:44
sample. He drew this out.
17:45
I'm like, yes. And then I said, but you're what
17:47
you're missing is add some spiders into it.
17:49
And that's. Remember, this would be thorns.
17:50
It shouldn't be. The original one was sort of
17:52
pretty and floral. I'm like, no, this has to be
17:53
thorny and mean. And there should be spiders and
17:56
bugs. And so he sort of listened, and
17:59
there they are. And it's like, it had to be, you
18:01
know, what would Sarah Sanderson have had made in the 1600s?
18:05
Right. And I tried to say to the
18:07
colorways and you know, look, this was the first one was done
18:10
in the 90s. And so her sleeves were mesh.
18:12
Of course they were mesh because that was popular in the 90s.
18:16
And the the directors like they should be sort of spider webby.
18:19
I'm like, how can we make spider webs?
18:20
So I called up my friend Krista Knitsey Knits, who's been
18:23
knitting for me forever. Like all of Mindy Kaling's
18:25
custom knits, we're done by Krista.
18:27
OK, shout out Krista, Is it possible to embroider spider
18:33
webs and make sleeves out of it? So she's like, well, I'd have to
18:35
do them by hand and then join them.
18:38
And we started doing them and she made me one sample and I
18:41
loved it. And I found this beautiful cash
18:43
in my yarn. So they're the most lavish
18:45
leaves ever. Because that was The thing is
18:46
that we were shooting this in the dead of winter, and I needed
18:49
to keep the ladies warm. So I mean, Bet was easy because
18:51
you could put thermals underneath that.
18:53
Mary was easy, but poor Sarah had to have her arms exposed.
18:56
So at least cashmere, it'll be some semblance of warmth on her.
19:01
And then she made me the first set.
19:02
It was beautiful. And then she made three more
19:05
sets and shipped them to us. And somehow in shipping, they
19:08
disappeared. What?
19:10
Yeah, so then she had to make because we needed.
19:13
I think I made ten sets total. So she actually made thirteen
19:16
sets because three of them disappeared.
19:18
So somewhere in the universe are three sets of these beautiful,
19:21
and. Someone's walking around of
19:22
Sarah Jessica Parker sleeves right now.
19:24
Probably listening to this too, right?
19:26
That's what they are. Well, I love that.
19:31
I mean, we could talk about these forever, but I also want
19:33
to talk about young Sanderson sisters and Salem.
19:36
So first of all, these actresses killed it.
19:38
I mean incredible performances. I left a through line you
19:43
created between the younger sisters and the sisters we know
19:47
you know now. What was your kind of
19:49
inspiration? Did you do any research until
19:51
like you know the sale of witch trials?
19:53
We did. We did research on the period
19:55
and and looked at original pieces and there wasn't a lot of
19:59
color. And so part of the note from the
20:02
from our director and Lutcher was that it should be very sort
20:04
of drab and not full of color, but she wanted the girls to
20:08
harken to the to the witches they are now.
20:11
So I thought, let me use the darkest version of the color
20:13
because you figured there's berries and roots and grass and
20:16
you can dye almost anything with natural fibers.
20:19
So I went, so you know, Winnie is in green, Sarah is in purple,
20:24
and and Mary's in in dark burgundy.
20:25
I wanted to harken to the colors they wear as adults.
20:28
And then she said that the most recognizable thing of them is
20:31
their hair. And that was one thing that
20:32
could not change from the original movie, was their hair.
20:34
So their hair is exactly, almost exactly the same.
20:37
And then she's like, it would be possible to make Mary have a hat
20:40
with a little twirl out, like, well, find out.
20:42
So we sort of had fun with it. And then there's a really funny
20:45
beat where for Winifred's cap has the double bubble.
20:49
Like we they were supposed to, like, take off the thing and the
20:52
pair are supposed to pop. And we did it, but they didn't
20:55
use it in the film. But I I suddenly use their
20:57
colors to sort of harken to who they are as adults.
21:00
And it was fun to play with that.
21:02
I love the caps. Then the and the colors were
21:04
subtle like this you can't you can barely tell their.
21:06
I think if you didn't know those color that you would think they
21:09
were Browns. Yeah, it's perfect.
21:11
I love Mary's little Baker hat, just it's immediate laughs.
21:16
It was such great nostalgia for, you know, someone like me who I
21:19
grew up watching Hocus Pocus every single October.
21:22
So saying this, it was just such a huge smile.
21:25
Likewise. I mean that's I think that was
21:26
one of the reasons that I had such an affinity for someone as
21:29
I've been watching since I was a kid myself.
21:30
So I really sort of knew the characters backwards and
21:32
forwards. Right.
21:34
You were not going to mess this up.
21:36
You were excited. Now we meet the new characters,
21:40
our teenagers Becca, Izzy and Cassie.
21:42
They are the teenagers who show a lot of similarities to the
21:45
sisters, and you can see a lot of that in their costumes.
21:48
I mean it's it's a little bit of a nod to each of the sisters.
21:52
It was, it was, it's not on. It's not by accident.
21:54
It was on purpose. Again, with Ann and Lynn, our
21:57
director and producer, we're like, you know, let's sort of,
21:59
you know, hearken them to the originals.
22:01
But it has to be very subtle that it's not in your face.
22:03
And I'm like, OK, well, let's make it as subtle as possible.
22:06
So you see, Becca is in and the Burgundy's Izzy is in in greens
22:11
and purples and Cassie's in the pinks and lavenders, and they
22:14
have that. You see them at school in one
22:16
outfit and you see them in that afternoon more sort of play
22:19
clothes, but I want them to be very subtly the wedges.
22:22
And so obviously, like, there's the Plaid from from Mary's skirt
22:27
on her on her coat, the red hooded coat.
22:30
And then when we were dressing Cassie for her pajama scene, we
22:34
found that great tight eye tshirt.
22:35
I'm like, Oh my God, it's Max, right?
22:36
And that wasn't we put up with a cardigan, then you get Allison.
22:43
So I was like, I just wanted to sort of like put these little
22:45
subtle bits in there that I thought that the true fans would
22:49
get. And the people who are new to
22:50
this wouldn't know. They think it was cool on its
22:52
own, so they had to live on their own.
22:54
But I wanted to harken back to it.
22:56
Right. It's so cool.
22:57
And I love the story too, of Mary used to talk about the tie
23:00
day shirt also originally being, you know, and.
23:03
Encompassing all the colors of the Sanderson sisters too.
23:05
So it's like this really cool cycle that that you're now a
23:08
part of it. It's so fun.
23:09
And then I do think it's subtle. I think it's just that we're all
23:11
costume nerds and you know, we picked up on it pretty quickly.
23:14
I think it's awesome. Well, first, when I first,
23:17
because I did a lot of posts on Instagram about this and when I
23:19
talked about it, people like, Oh my God, I never noticed that.
23:21
So I love that. I love the people you know, Like
23:23
there are people like you who got it instantly.
23:25
And there are people who like, wait, what?
23:27
Yeah, that's the fun part of learning about it.
23:29
Going back, watching a year after year and been like, oh, I
23:32
didn't know if that is Mary. Plaid.
23:34
You know, one thing that I always love about Hocus Pocus is
23:38
the massive Halloween scenes. I mean, how did you pull all
23:42
these little Halloween costumes together?
23:44
Sounds like the perfect beautiful nightmare.
23:46
It's it's literally the perfect beautiful nightmare.
23:48
I mean, I have to thank my friends at the Halloween Costume
23:51
Association who cooked me up with several brands who, like
23:54
gave us product because we couldn't use anything licensed,
23:58
not use. Even I could not use Disney
24:01
characters I couldn't have. Oh, interesting, though, why?
24:03
I couldn't use any Disney characters and I couldn't
24:06
obviously use any licensed products which are like Marvel
24:08
costumes, right? So they had to be non, non, non
24:13
specific costumes, but not even Disney.
24:16
That's crazy. And I also needed 1000 of them
24:18
because we would have crowd things and you couldn't reuse
24:20
the costume. So I probably had 1200 costumes
24:24
and we bought some. We made a bunch of stuff in the
24:26
office. We just sort of like made like
24:28
because it had to look. We had to be loving hands at
24:30
home too because people make their own costumes.
24:33
And then we had to make various versions of the Sanderson
24:37
sisters for the Santa Sister Helman costume contest.
24:41
And thinking about that, the fact that the the audience who
24:46
was making these costumes had never seen them, they had heard
24:49
about them. So they were making their
24:51
versions of the costumes based on what they had heard, not what
24:53
they had seen because they saw them, had been, had been
24:57
hypnotized. And so nobody had seen them,
24:59
except for the little, except for Gilbert.
25:00
Oh, wow. And that was also again, I mean
25:12
I wanted to again harken to all respect has to go to to Mary
25:16
Vogt who designed the original film and really sort of set my
25:19
groundwork for this. Interesting.
25:01
Yeah, because then it would have been very cosplay, like, so
25:03
they're all making their own various versions.
25:06
I also didn't notice that The Supremes in a potential Madonna
25:09
walking around. And she found those costumes at
25:22
stock at because she has. She says she ran out of money by
25:26
the time we got to the costume party to use all the stock from
25:29
from ABC costumes. So did I.
25:32
When I went to go pull at ABC Costumes, ironically we found
25:36
pieces of the original costumes in stock there.
25:38
That's crazy. Long clothes have been at ABC
25:41
costumes, so I'm sure a few of the pieces I use because we
25:43
dressed the background with ABC costumes used in the original
25:47
film. They're like, oh man, hocus
25:49
pocus is coming again. I watched Ru Paul's Drag Race
25:55
pretty religiously. I was so stoked to see Ginger
25:57
Minge Camora Hall cornbread in the movie.
26:01
I was. I like working for these
26:02
fabulous Divas. You you know, these ladies all
26:05
have very unique measurements. Right and God bless.
26:10
Both cornbread and ginger had a fullsize chart on their bodies
26:14
with their padding. Nice.
26:16
But we had three days to make these costumes.
26:18
What? OK, 3 days.
26:20
That's not cool. So you know, because I had all
26:22
the fabrics, I had pulled the fabrics in advance knowing
26:24
they'd be coming, but I didn't have sizes.
26:26
And so we had three days to get to get them together.
26:29
They arrived, we were supposed to fit them and then Ginger got
26:33
a positive COVID test. It's false positive.
26:37
But then that stopped the fitting.
26:39
So then we had to wait overnight to to get a renew positive.
26:41
So then we then after all having three days to make them, I had a
26:43
day and a half to finish them and I have to give credit to my
26:46
crew. Mariah McCormack, Jana Aceveto
26:51
and then Harper Della Piano, who's local to Providence.
26:54
Harper made water. Fred and Mariah made the other
26:57
two. They were made in days.
26:59
I mean and the fit on these is fucking amazing.
27:01
I excuse me these the fit on these is great.
27:05
I guess that they came out this and you know, my only
27:08
disappointment is that they didn't get more screen time
27:10
because they are pretty. Fabulous, right?
27:13
But they make use of every single moment they're on camera.
27:16
So I've always imagined that designing a costume for Doug
27:20
Jones is probably like the costume designers dream.
27:23
So when he got to work on Billy Butcherson, I mean, well, and
27:27
that was the one costume that I thought shouldn't change because
27:30
unlike the witches who disintegrated and were brought
27:32
back, he was put into the grave exactly like he was in the last
27:35
movie and came back up. Right later.
27:38
So I didn't think I had any artistic license to change any
27:41
of this. And I was able to go to one of
27:45
the producers has an ability costume in his house and I went
27:48
to his house and saw the original costume and got to be
27:50
able to look at the details of how it was made and what the
27:52
understructure of it was and we would only ever see it
27:55
destroyed. But I had to make it clean 1st
27:59
and then destroy it afterwards. So I love that you can see
28:02
because that's that's that's Doug.
28:04
And then that's his stunt double who's the headless version,
28:06
which is a tiny, tiny woman. And then and The thing is that
28:10
you can see that her you, they have to be the same shoulder
28:12
height, but the arms, eye on the coat is like 12 inches lower
28:17
than it should be because what are technically his elbows are
28:21
her arms doing this. So they have this massive arms
28:26
eye and she's got a contraption on that's like giving her
28:28
shoulders. And so we built it over that and
28:30
then I had a little bit of mesh in there so she could see out of
28:33
it. And here's a little trick that
28:34
you might not notice in the original movie.
28:36
The lace on Doug's Jabo is the same lace as Winifred Sleeves.
28:42
Just the lace Winifred's di purple and his and his was left
28:47
cream. Well, I'm not.
28:48
Well I'm not going to cheat that way.
28:49
And I found this really beautiful French Chantilly lace
28:53
at Mood for a lot of money. But it was in the weirdest like
28:57
baby puce pale green like the. I understand why nobody ever
29:01
bought it because it was so ugly.
29:02
But for us it was perfect because we were gonna destroy
29:06
it. And then you have to like, you
29:07
know, we had to make four of these, cuz we made two for Doug
29:09
and two for the set woman. And they had to then be aged and
29:13
destroyed. And we spent more time aging
29:15
them than we spent making them because the aging processes so
29:18
far and the first, my first agent I are on, that just made
29:22
them too black and you couldn't see any details.
29:23
And then we had to then strip all the black off and then
29:26
redoing them, which was great because then they got a next
29:29
another layer of aging. And then when Doug put it on
29:32
exactly, he thought he was wearing the original costume.
29:34
Like, no, Doug, these didn't know.
29:34
I just made these for you. I mean, the fact that Doug
29:36
thought it was original costume was the perfect, you know?
29:39
Right. It doesn't get better than that.
29:41
If I could, if I could, if I could convince him as original
29:45
when it was. Yeah.
29:45
I mean, that's that's pretty hard to do.
29:47
You would think. He's such a costume guy.
29:50
You can see the stripes in this in the vest.
29:52
Yeah, the original fabric had a one-on-one stripe.
29:55
I couldn't find anything like that.
29:58
But at Western costume in their fabric room, they had one with
30:01
the distance between the stripes is 4 inches.
30:03
So I made my pour cutter fitter, take the fabric, head it up and
30:07
resew it so that the stripes were closer.
30:10
I'm sure they love that, yeah, because we had to take like 10
30:13
yards of fabric and make it into four.
30:15
Right. But it's on camera.
30:17
It's the you know it my I wanted the audience to think that it's
30:20
the exact same coats. Yeah, I mean, to me, it that's
30:23
exactly what I thought. It just felt like, because
30:25
you're right, he was just stuffed right back in the
30:26
ground, so why would it change too much, you know?
30:29
But still, you could tell that the textiles were just so
30:32
lovely. And I want to touch it.
30:34
It looks so great. Well, they're they were pretty
30:37
grimy, but and that was. Actually don't want to touch it.
30:41
You know you're fighting like if we were like telling like get
30:44
dressed, but don't sit and don't sit down.
30:45
Don't sit in your trailer because you're going to get that
30:47
gun. Oh no.
30:50
I love the mini Veep reunion that was happening in Hocus
30:54
Pocus too. I'm a big Veep fan, so I was so
30:57
excited to see Tony Hale. And Sam Richardson as Gilbert.
31:02
And it's funny is I had just finished because I just designed
31:04
senior year. I went from senior year to hocus
31:07
pocus and Sam was in both. So luckily I'm like, I already
31:11
have his measurements. Go ahead, Hire.
31:12
Him, right? That worked out perfectly.
31:15
Like, don't even consider it anyone else.
31:17
And getting to make that costume was like, we we she's like, I
31:22
want him. He was supposed to be dressed as
31:24
a little wizard when you see him as a little boy.
31:27
And I found this like cheap costume, you know from like you
31:30
know, part of the party city that we destroyed a minute
31:33
because she's like he's been wearing that costume for years.
31:34
So we had to make it look old and worn.
31:36
And then I thought as a little boy who's been obsessed with
31:38
this, he would make his modern day costume the fabulous version
31:43
of the one he wore as a child. So his little wizard costume as
31:46
a child is now. This is the more elaborate hand
31:49
eyed and and if you look at that velvet you might recognize that
31:53
velvet because we use that technique on Stargate on Roz
31:56
costume 1993 and so my Dyer Celia Sedgewick I called her I'm
32:02
like how did you do that. She told me the process so that
32:04
I bought the chemical, it's a it's a procy on dye process.
32:07
And I told my cater fitter, I'm like this is how we're going to
32:09
do this. And so we then dyed the velvet
32:11
specifically for this. But I remember that I love that
32:14
sort of texture and the modelness of it on on Stargate.
32:16
And so we used it on this. And then I was shopping down in
32:19
New York City and I found all the stars and I'm like, oh more
32:21
sparkle. It was just sort of like came
32:24
together beautifully And then the vest is made out of Thai
32:27
fabric. I got a Mood Fabric in New York.
32:28
Also, oh OK, yeah, I could see that.
32:31
All custom. I love his style, actually.
32:34
I kind of felt like I don't do. I see a little bit of Salvador
32:37
Perez, a little bit in his style, like slightly.
32:40
I mean it is always going to be a purple sparkling costume in
32:42
one of my movie that you know and you know how you know how
32:45
much I love mixing prints. So like even finding that tie to
32:48
go with that that, you know the best combo was, you know fun
32:50
because you know I'm I, I paint with textures and I just love
32:54
this on him. And then poor Tony Hale like we
32:58
she's like I wanted she wanted to be very Halloweeny but like,
33:02
and so we did many. I mean there's probably 30
33:04
versions of this and the fact that she'd show the director
33:07
just started cracking up. She's like, that's hysterical.
33:10
I'm like, Oh my God, it's so obnoxious.
33:11
She's like, that's why I love it.
33:12
Yeah, he's the ultimate dad. Yeah, and I found those, those
33:17
pumpkin pants from his castaway. They always do like an
33:20
embroidered holiday pant. And I at home have the the green
33:24
ones with the with the handy games.
33:26
When I found the pumpkin version of this and Tony was just so up
33:29
to anything because in the original script he was dressed
33:33
as his ancestor. So we were going to see him
33:36
twice as the as a reverend. And so I was going to do 2
33:39
different versions of it and then she's like, no, it'll be
33:41
fun here, you know, because then it was like too obvious that
33:43
there's the reverend. And so they're like, no, but we
33:45
was fun to dress him in this and then also as a reverend in the
33:47
flashback. I think it's so funny because
33:50
you see him as this, like, evil guy in the beginning, you
33:53
automatically don't like him and then it switches and now it's
33:55
like the goofy fun dad, Tony Hale.
33:58
I just thought it was so hilarious.
34:01
Tony Hale was just the dream to work with.
34:02
I mean, he's just the loveliest human being.
34:04
Like, if anybody gets a chance to work with Tony Hale, jump at
34:06
it. Yeah.
34:08
Oh, but then we have to talk about Hannah Waddingham as the
34:12
Witch Mother. I mean, I remember when you
34:14
posted the first picture and I was like, yes, I'm, I'm down
34:17
because I love her. This was so much fun.
34:20
I mean, like, how often in your life do you get to create a
34:23
Disney villain? Right.
34:25
And you know, yes, it's a little bit hokey, but that's a Disney
34:28
villain. They're supposed to be hokey.
34:30
I wasn't, you know, I wanted it to hearken, too, because I
34:33
wanted her to be the inspiration for Winnie.
34:35
So Winnie's costume is more medieval than 16th century.
34:39
And so I wanted to have that sort of the same idea.
34:41
And you can't use any animal product on a Disney movie.
34:46
You can't use leather. You can't use feathers.
34:48
Like what? Yeah.
34:49
So I had to make our own feathers.
34:51
And so I had seen Matthew born Swan Lake, and the Swans in Swan
34:57
Lake are made with shredded chiffon.
35:00
Feathers are shredded chiffon. So I went to Mariah.
35:01
I'm like how can we do this with shredded like what do we what do
35:04
we. And so we wanted to and I and I
35:05
had made their the capes out of Hobbit.
35:08
I cuz that was the one thing I took from Mary Vot is like The
35:10
Hobbit. I just moved beautifully in the
35:11
wind and so we had something that we started playing with
35:14
that Mariah came up with a technique where she sort of
35:16
shredded it and then we would play with it and it gave you
35:18
that sort of will we feather effect of it and then.
35:22
Did you know she was gonna be flying around before this or did
35:25
that kind of happen after effect?
35:26
No, no, we knew that cuz. And that was The thing is that
35:28
at one point they're like, we're going to need 2 dresses.
35:30
I'm like, Oh my God, we got her. I mean, God bless.
35:33
I've gotten her measurements and then she arrived about a week
35:36
before shooting and then she had to go to something in New York.
35:39
I'm like, you're coming to me first and then you can go to New
35:41
York. God bless you there.
35:43
And then we had our first video and she just fell in love with
35:45
the costume. I mean, she was, I don't know
35:47
what she expected, but I don't think she switched to get this.
35:50
And then we had made the Cape extra long thinking like, well,
35:53
we'll find out what the perfect media is and well, cut it.
35:55
I'm like, I'm gonna cut like three of the three feet of this
35:57
office. She's like, don't you dare.
35:59
In her fitting, I would take each other because there's no
36:01
makeup, so I won't do it. But the fitting, she was just
36:03
playing and working that Cape. And I'm like, OK, I'm not
36:06
worried about her. I'm like, you know, you're going
36:07
to be in the forest, but she's like, I'm out and you see her.
36:10
And my God, she just worked that Cape throughout the scene and
36:13
just twirled and it was so much fun.
36:16
But then they decided that they were, they were going to harness
36:18
her. And so we had to put holes into
36:20
this one single dress. Oh no.
36:23
Let her fly so that we had to. But luckily, the way Mariah did
36:26
it, because it's roused, I wanted the dress to look like
36:28
it's sort of like made on her and it was peeling apart and
36:31
that and and then the same selfies, costumes.
36:34
Who did the embroidery for Winifred did the embroidery on
36:36
the eye. And you don't get to see it
36:38
much. But on her sleeves are the same
36:41
symbols that Winifred has on her coat.
36:43
And then the brooch she has is the same brooch as Winifred's.
36:46
But I plucked out the malachite and I put in a carnelian.
36:49
Oh, I love that. And also the colors kind of
36:52
reminded me of some other characters too, and that it was
36:57
not on purpose. It's sort of like after we put
37:00
it all together because we were, we had made because it where
37:02
there's one scene where we had to dress Allison, Max and Danny
37:06
for a flashback scene when when little little Gilbert's watching
37:09
this, we had to reproduce the costumes.
37:11
So this is all in the mannequin and I'm like, Oh my God, it made
37:14
that Danny. And then my my sister's like,
37:17
nobody's going to notice. And I'm like, yes, they are.
37:20
But like the fact that, like, even down to the sun on Danny
37:24
and I, it was a karmic. It was like, I didn't.
37:28
That was. Not so funny.
37:29
It wasn't on purpose. It was not my intention.
37:31
It that sort of happened organically.
37:34
I love that. Oh, like, did I?
37:38
And then you just And my hesitation was like, did I, do I
37:40
need to change this? And and I'm glad I did it
37:42
because the fans loved it so much.
37:44
But I'm a firm believer and continuity in the universe and
37:47
the universe wanted this to exist.
37:48
So I was guided by, you know, the universe on this.
37:52
Oh, it was flawless. I can't imagine it any other way
37:54
now. And it's this is my favorite
37:57
costume by far from the entire movie.
37:59
I just, you could tell that she's loving it when she's
38:01
wearing this gown. She's raved about the costume.
38:04
She was there for two days. You know, she spent more time
38:06
with me than she did on camera, but we.
38:09
And she sends me lovely messages.
38:11
But she loved this. And I really hope that Disney
38:13
does an origin story because she needs her own film.
38:16
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She was taking it up.
38:18
It was so good. All right, so you're working on
38:21
hocus pocus, too. That means you have to work with
38:23
Bette Midler, Sarah Jessica Parker, Kathy Nagimi.
38:27
I mean, what was that cloud of process like?
38:29
I imagine must be. I would be a little intimidated
38:32
but I was very intimidated also cuz I know the Bette Midler is
38:35
is infamous for having great relations with her costume
38:38
designers. It's Bette Midler.
38:40
Yeah. She loves costumes and I think
38:42
she was like, who is this kid? And you know, unlike you and I
38:46
who watched the movie 40 times in our lifetime, in 25 years.
38:51
Oh wow, So what I brought and I found, like I said, I had some
38:54
of the original pieces and I had tons of research photos and I
38:57
had archived photos from the studio.
38:59
I hadn't got to see the actual costumes before when I started
39:02
it, which I'm kind of good because I'm glad I hadn't had
39:04
the real ones at hand because I made decisions based on memory
39:08
and and concept as opposed to what was in my hand.
39:11
Like the fabrics on her her underdress are are washed silk
39:15
dupione. The original one was just sort
39:17
of a rayon crate. I'm glad I went with the more a
39:19
lavish fabric. But like, for instance, she
39:22
wears the striped tights and then she has an orange
39:25
underskirt and she's like what? I never wore that.
39:27
I'm like, yes, you did. No, no, I did it.
39:28
And then I would take the movie, Fast forward it to where she's
39:31
on stage and she's like, oh, and so at first she was like, this
39:34
is wrong. I never wore that.
39:36
And then she was like, oh, you really know, you're DT.
39:38
Pull out the DVD player and by the end of it you know she's
39:42
still to this day like you know, when I said we had a nomination,
39:44
she's like wooe, you know, she's just, you know, we we stay in
39:47
contact. You know all three of the ladies
39:49
has just been so lovely. Sarah was in the middle of
39:51
shooting and just like that so she couldn't come to fittings.
39:54
So I would take the train from Providence up to New York and
39:56
meet her at her house and we go up to her bathroom in her house
39:58
and have the fittings in her house.
39:59
So she was just lovely and. I think that was, you know
40:03
you're you're going to an actor and like I'm going to remake the
40:06
costume you wore 30 years ago. And I have conversations with
40:09
him. Like, you know the one thing
40:10
that that like Kathy said was like the costume was just so
40:12
heavy and it was uncommon and I have a bad back and you know, I
40:16
just, I the costume has to be lighter.
40:18
And so I made I I went into this trying to make them better for
40:21
them. And then look, you know, Sarah
40:22
was 25 when she wore the first one.
40:24
And so she had a lot of premage. And now she's a more mature
40:27
woman and might not want as much cleavage.
40:29
So it was like we just sort of made adjustments so that they
40:31
were comfortable in the costumes.
40:34
And again, with Sarah, she put the costume on and just
40:36
immediately started twirling and twirling and and you see that
40:39
she's constantly twirling on camera.
40:41
So she wanted to know that she had that movement and that
40:43
freedom in it. And I think that was The thing
40:45
is that whenever all three of them put the costumes on, they
40:48
immediately started to move like their characters were like Kathy
40:50
did her hunch over thing and bet was very, you know her.
40:53
That's why there's so many layers on her sleeves.
40:55
Because Bet's like always doing this and was they immediately,
40:59
even though they hadn't played the characters in 30 years,
41:02
immediately went back into their characters in the movements.
41:04
And it was really not just about what the costume looked like,
41:07
but what it moved, how how the movement was and what they could
41:11
do with it. And then, of course, it was the
41:12
details. I mean, Sarah was again, as she
41:15
was the first person to see the embroidery.
41:16
And she's like, oh, my God, this bonus is amazing.
41:19
And she loved the cashmere sleeves.
41:20
And, you know, it was her. And when we first made them,
41:22
they were a little short on her. I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, I'll
41:24
make them longer. She's like, no, don't you dare.
41:26
She's like, I like them short. It makes my arms look longer.
41:29
And so it was, you know, it was just details, like how did they
41:32
feel in it? And so all of that was about
41:34
keeping them happy and making them feel comfortable in them.
41:36
I think this really like talks to the beauty and reason why we
41:39
love costume design too, right? Is because it really makes these
41:43
actors feel like they're becoming the character again.
41:46
Like they're seeing themselves in that character just by
41:48
putting on that costume, you know, and twirling around in it,
41:51
feeling the lightness of it, the feeling of the fabrics.
41:55
That's why I love costume design.
41:56
And the special thing about this photo is that this was our
42:00
because, you know, we had Kathy and bet together beforehand for
42:03
flying tests and costume tests. This is the first day Sarah was
42:05
on set, so this is the first time the three of them had been
42:08
all been in costume in 29 years. Wow, I I've just got chills.
42:13
Actually, I can't imagine that moment.
42:15
And here's another little note. The first time that vet was in
42:18
her costume and makeup was on my birthday of the year of the film
42:22
and we were supposed to have dinner that night and we were
42:24
ended up shooting till 11:00. I was like, oh, we're sorry
42:26
about you. I'm like, are you kidding?
42:27
I got to hang out with Biddler as just as Winfred and my I had
42:31
the best birthday ever. Exactly how it should have been.
42:35
There were so many magical moments on this.
42:36
It's not me as a costume designer, but as a fan and and
42:39
as a as a as a huge fan of these three ladies.
42:42
But being able to work with them and collaborate at this level
42:46
was just, you can't, you know, like, look, if it's the last
42:49
design job I ever get, I can go out great.
42:53
Well, that brings me to my last question.
42:55
You know, you're now part of the Hocus Pocus legacy.
42:58
I mean what did this project mean to you professionally,
43:00
personally, you kind of just touched on it but I mean I, you
43:04
know like the fact look I just got a Costume Designers Guild
43:07
Award nomination for this film. It's the my first nomination in
43:10
25 years. So I think that it, you know,
43:14
I've always, I think I've been a fairly well respected costume
43:16
designer. But for my peers to sort of
43:18
acknowledge my design work on this really, you know, it's it's
43:22
very sad. And I think that's The thing is
43:23
that the notes that I've gotten for fellow costume designers
43:26
have, you know, because you're you, you go into this like look,
43:29
this can go either one or two ways.
43:30
They're they're going to love it or they're going to hate it.
43:33
How dare you change something that's so iconic?
43:35
But I think that people see that I really put a lot of love and
43:39
respect into Mary's costumes going forward with this.
43:42
I did not want to completely, you know, change the colors or
43:45
change the silhouettes. I wanted to honor Mary's
43:48
contribution, but in my own way, make it my own and make it.
43:52
You know, what? If I had done something 30 years
43:56
ago now, what would I have done differently?
43:58
And I think that this is what Mary would have done 30 years
44:00
later. I mean, I think you nailed it
44:03
right on the head that Salvador Perez, it's been such an honor
44:06
having you here. I love talking about this film.
44:09
I think you did such an incredible job and this
44:11
nomination is so well deserved. I appreciate that.
44:18
The Art of Costume Blogcast is hosted and produced by Elizabeth
44:22
Joy Glass and Spencer Williams. Our audio engineering and
44:27
editing is done by Dan White. Follow us on Instagram at The
44:32
Art of Costume Pod or visit The Art of Costume blogcast.com for
44:37
all Blogcast updates. If you want to support the show,
44:40
go to theartofcostume.com/pod store for more costume.
44:46
Reviews, Deep dives and interviews.
44:49
Head over to the artofcostume.com, A blog
44:52
dedicated to highlighting the best in costume design.