Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Did female cop order hitman to murder her husband and teen girl?

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Did female cop order hitman to murder her husband and teen girl? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace decorated NYPD officers behind bars
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  Speaker 1: accused in a shocking murder for higher plot in a
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  Speaker 1: criminal complaint, Authorities say thirty four year old Valerie Cincinneli
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  Speaker 1: allegedly asked her boyfriend to hire a hitman with the
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  Speaker 1: intention of murdering her estranged husband. But it doesn't end there. Cincinneli,
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  Speaker 1: a twelve year veteran on the force, allegedly wanted to
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  Speaker 1: have her boyfriend's daughter killed by a hitman as well.
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  Speaker 1: Cincinnelli's father, it's now speaking out in defense of his daughter.
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  Speaker 1: I guarantee you my daughter is innocent of this, saying
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  Speaker 1: there's more to this story. This guy that she's involved
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  Speaker 1: is a wacko psycho. This is the second time he's
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  Speaker 1: had her arrested. Cincinneli's boyfriend allegedly told her he knew
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  Speaker 1: a hitman who would do the job for seven thousand
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  Speaker 1: dollars converted into gold coins. Authorities say the murders were
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  Speaker 1: supposed to have happened last weekend, but as part of
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  Speaker 1: an FBI ruse, detectives went to her house to say
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  Speaker 1: her husband had been murdered. She was arrested after allegedly
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  Speaker 1: contacting her boyfriend to talk about an alibi, not knowing
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  Speaker 1: that he was cooperating with investigators the entire time. Her
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  Speaker 1: neighbors in utter shock didn't see that one calling for
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  Speaker 1: sell at ABC's GMA reporter Maggie Ruly, is it true
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  Speaker 1: did a cop arrange to have her ex husband murdered
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  Speaker 1: as part of a hit, and not only that, to
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  Speaker 1: have her boyfriend's daughter rubbed out as well? I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it's he Grace, this is crime stories. Thank you for
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  Speaker 1: being with us. You know, Cheryl McCollum, longtime colleague and friend,
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  Speaker 1: director the Coal Case Research Institute. You know, I don't
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  Speaker 1: know why I don't just stop saying this, But every
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  Speaker 1: time I say I think I've seen it all, then
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  Speaker 1: you know, I see something else, and then I say
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  Speaker 1: it again, I think I've seen it all. You know,
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  Speaker 1: we were in the trenches together, fighting crime, looking for fendance,
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  Speaker 1: looking for evidence. Do you through the dirt for bullet
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  Speaker 1: for shell casings, the works? You know you think Cheryl
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  Speaker 1: an in a cop, a veteran cop, would know better. Yep?
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  Speaker 1: Did you actually just say yep? That's your answer? Not
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  Speaker 1: only does she want to kill her ex husband and
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  Speaker 1: ladies hear me when I say there is a reason
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  Speaker 1: he's an X. Okay, can't you just leave it at that?
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  Speaker 1: He's your ex? Go be happy, run like young gazelle,
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  Speaker 1: get away from him. Why getting mired down and having
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  Speaker 1: a hit put on him? That's for our shrink, Karen
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  Speaker 1: start but Cheryl, Okay, I'm expecting a little more than
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  Speaker 1: yep from you. No, I would get into it if
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  Speaker 1: oh now I get no, Now I get no. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: I guess that's an improvement that overwhelming because you're talking
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  Speaker 1: about such an iconic police department first of all, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: the world looks to NYPD for training, and then you've
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  Speaker 1: got not only a veteran, but a decorated veteran who
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  Speaker 1: foiled a bank robbery on her own. I mean, it
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  Speaker 1: is baffling to me that she thought this very elementary
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  Speaker 1: plan was going to work. That you go to the
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  Speaker 1: person that is your boyfriend, that you've had a volatile
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  Speaker 1: relationship with, that you don't really trust because he's had
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  Speaker 1: you arrested, but that's who you go to to find
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  Speaker 1: a hit man. I mean, this wouldn't even be a
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  Speaker 1: good made for TV movie. I don't know. I think
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  Speaker 1: i'd like to see this a made for TV movie.
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  Speaker 1: But first, can we just get through the trial and
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  Speaker 1: again before a defense attorneys get all tuned up. Second verse,
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  Speaker 1: same as the first. Yeah, she's innocent until proven guilty.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe I should just start the program with that. Of course,
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  Speaker 1: she's innocent until she's proven guilty. But what you said
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  Speaker 1: about the NYPD, you're right because we have lived in
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  Speaker 1: New York from many many years since I moved to
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  Speaker 1: New York Stars show Johnny Cochrane, God rest his soul,
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  Speaker 1: and the NYPD is great. They're tough when they need
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  Speaker 1: to be when. Okay, I know this is just a
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  Speaker 1: tiny snapshot, but whenever the twins walk up to an NYPD,
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  Speaker 1: they couldn't be nicer. I've seen him be harsh, but
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  Speaker 1: you know what, they needed to be harsh at that
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  Speaker 1: moment when they did it. And yes, every police force
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  Speaker 1: has bad apples and they make everybody else look bad.
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  Speaker 1: But I think you're right. I think they are iconic overall.
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  Speaker 1: Cheryl mcollum, Okay, let's get some facts before I get
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  Speaker 1: Cheryl mccollumb all strung out on what we think happened
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  Speaker 1: joining me right now. Crime online dot Com investigative reporter
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  Speaker 1: John Lemley. Okay Lemley, start at the beginning. First of all,
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  Speaker 1: why would you stay with the guy. It's already had
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  Speaker 1: you arrested once I take the patent turner pat in
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  Speaker 1: the street at turn a corner. Oh yeah, i'd away
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  Speaker 1: gone from him, but she stayed. Now she's in the
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  Speaker 1: pokey deservedly, John Limley, what do I need to ask? Well,
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  Speaker 1: that has been an on again, off again, on again,
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  Speaker 1: off again relationship for quite some time. I think you
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  Speaker 1: should say it one more time. Just okay, good, I
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  Speaker 1: got I got on again, off again, Jackie. Did you
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  Speaker 1: get okay? Good? Go ahead, John Limley. You know, as
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  Speaker 1: we're sort of setting the scene for this woman. This
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  Speaker 1: decorated police officer. Cheryl McCullum mentioned a story actually that
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  Speaker 1: went viral about this police officer. In twenty seventeen, one
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  Speaker 1: of Cincinnelli's arrests really made headlines when she caught a
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  Speaker 1: man who literally red handed. This time, a man went
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  Speaker 1: to a Howard Beach bank and demanded cash. He left
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  Speaker 1: with a bag filled with thirteen hundred dollars and I
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  Speaker 1: mean yes the diepack, yes a dollar. I'm so happy.
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  Speaker 1: I could not be happier when the bomb exploded, the
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  Speaker 1: man drop the money ran for it. Officers Cincinnati happened
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  Speaker 1: to be in the Howard Beach area at the time.
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  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, that was Valerie Cincinnati allegedly ordered a
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  Speaker 1: hit man. Yes, totally, Moley, I didn't realize that. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: hold on Bobby Chicone joining me, FBI Special Agent Bobby Chicone.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, bank robberies are hard, are hard to break,
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  Speaker 1: okay because usually they're usually they're very well thought out.
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  Speaker 1: You go into a bank, you got a plan, you
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  Speaker 1: know it's armed, you know there's also it's just surveillance.
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  Speaker 1: I've prosecuted a bank robbery before. Usually the FEDS take
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  Speaker 1: it away because it's FDIC insured. But I managed to
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  Speaker 1: have a bank robbery. Sheryl, I don't know if you
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  Speaker 1: remember that one. That's what the dyslexic bank robber. Don't
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  Speaker 1: touch the al ram. This is the robie translation. Don't
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  Speaker 1: touch the alarm. This is a robbery. Needless to say,
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  Speaker 1: we did a yeah, we did a handwriting comparison and
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  Speaker 1: he refers all of his letters in the handwriting comparison
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  Speaker 1: that helped Bobby chi Khan. This woman stopped a bank robber.
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  Speaker 1: Die pack no die pack and now this that really
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  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, and she's that good and did something
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  Speaker 1: this bad allegedly. Well, you know, first of all, echo
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  Speaker 1: your sentiments about the NYPD. My brother and father were
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  Speaker 1: both retired NYPD detectives. However, you know this particular officer
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  Speaker 1: while she and then you had to go mess it
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  Speaker 1: up and go with the fans encouragement of my father. Um,
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  Speaker 1: but she, you know, this particular officer also had some
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  Speaker 1: uh bad behavior in her police record. Also, she had
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  Speaker 1: previously been suspended, um, and her gun taken away and
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  Speaker 1: put on modified duty because wait, wait, wait, wait for
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  Speaker 1: what for what what did she did get suspended? She
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  Speaker 1: was she was a previous boyfriend of all things. Um
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  Speaker 1: reported that she was spending time at his house while
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  Speaker 1: she was on duty, and so, um, she's disciplinement it
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  Speaker 1: is with this woman's boyfriend's you know. Wendy Patrick, California
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  Speaker 1: prosecutor and author of Red Flags on Amazon, Bobby Chicoon,
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  Speaker 1: hold on just a moment, John Limley, just hold that thought.
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  Speaker 1: We women have got to get together on this. Cheryl McCullum,
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  Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, Karen Start. Another boyfriend reports her for being
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  Speaker 1: at his house while she's on duty. She probably just
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  Speaker 1: swing by for a Haven't Cheese sandwich. What's wrong with that?
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  Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick? Yeah, you know, Nancy, it's really a great
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  Speaker 1: point you bring up. Are we to be only judged
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  Speaker 1: by the company we keep? And if so, why are
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  Speaker 1: we so bad at choosing our personal relationships when apparently
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  Speaker 1: we're also good at our jobs professionally. This lady seems
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  Speaker 1: to be one more example of that. You're right there.
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  Speaker 1: There does seem to be a pattern to the problems
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  Speaker 1: that she's having in her life. This will no doubt
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  Speaker 1: make her sympathetic. I know everybody hates to say that,
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  Speaker 1: because what she did was awful, but that'll be something
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  Speaker 1: a defense attorney will probably pick up on. This is
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  Speaker 1: something the father's already stating that it's the sun, it's
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  Speaker 1: it's the it's the boyfriend, it's you know, it's somebody
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  Speaker 1: else's fault that god are involved in this. But you
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  Speaker 1: are right, it is it is curious that there is
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  Speaker 1: this steady string of let's just say, problematic relationship. Well
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  Speaker 1: wait a minute, you have a very good point there,
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  Speaker 1: and a good defense attorney is gonna latch right on. Listen,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not saying the woman's innocent. Okay, because when you
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  Speaker 1: get a hitman case, they've got you every which way
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  Speaker 1: but loose. They've got John tape, they've got John video here,
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  Speaker 1: they stung or with fake murder photos. But you know
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  Speaker 1: there's a very good point. A defense attorney is gonna
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  Speaker 1: latch on too. Take a listen to CBS Valerie Castro
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  Speaker 1: outside Cincinnelli's dad's house. Listen this guy, because she's involved.
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  Speaker 1: There's a wacko psycho. NYPD officer Valerie Cincinnelli, once praised
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  Speaker 1: for her role in stopping a queen's bank robbery, now
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  Speaker 1: arrested and accused of hatching a plot to hire a hitman.
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  Speaker 1: Neighbors were stunned after FBI agents were seen carrying boxes
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  Speaker 1: of evidence out of her home. I really I can't
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  Speaker 1: believe this, going as far as I just maybe, Like
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  Speaker 1: I said before, I don't want to believe it. Her
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  Speaker 1: intended targets an ex husband and the fifteen year old
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  Speaker 1: daughter of her current boyfriend. According to sources, the price
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  Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars. Investigators say the thirty four year old
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  Speaker 1: enlisted the help of her boyfriend, but he went to
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  Speaker 1: police and became a confidential source. Court documents say in February,
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  Speaker 1: Cincinnelli made a cash withdrawal of seven thousand dollars from
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  Speaker 1: a TV Bank branch in Wanta to pay the hitman.
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  Speaker 1: The confidential source told her the hitman didn't want to
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  Speaker 1: off the child near a school, but Cincinnelli's response, according
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  Speaker 1: to court documents, run her the explet of over how
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  Speaker 1: about that crime stories with Nancy Grace. As for her
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  Speaker 1: ex husband, she hoped his death could be made to
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  Speaker 1: look like a robbery gone bad. Friday morning, FBI agents
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  Speaker 1: posing as the hitman sent her text messages which included
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  Speaker 1: a photograph of the defendant's estranged husband appearing dead in
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  Speaker 1: his car, and the demand for an additional three thousand
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  Speaker 1: dollars to kill the daughter. Cincinneli then allegedly told her
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  Speaker 1: boyfriend she was deleting the text messages and pictures to
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  Speaker 1: cover up her involvement in the crime. The allegations are
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  Speaker 1: tough to grasp for the man who lives next door
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  Speaker 1: and has met both Cincinneli's ex husband and her current boyfriend.
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  Speaker 1: She's got two kids, man, and she's a police officer.
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  Speaker 1: Will she really do something like that? I don't know
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  Speaker 1: Cincinnelli's father says his daughter is the real victim of
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  Speaker 1: the man who turned against her. There's no doubt that
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  Speaker 1: he manipulated multiple conversations to come up with his statements.
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  Speaker 1: He's very smart, but he's a pathological liar and there's
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  Speaker 1: something wrong with his brain, investigators say. Cincinneli was also
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  Speaker 1: reported discussing what her alibi would be, saying she would
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  Speaker 1: be sure to be home at the time of the murders.
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  Speaker 1: She's being held without bail. Prosecutors argued she is a
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  Speaker 1: danger to the community, did a decorated NYPD cop. She
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  Speaker 1: allegedly tried to hire a hitman to kill her ex husband,
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  Speaker 1: and as if that's not enough, she is now accused
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  Speaker 1: of trying to rub out to murder her boyfriend's daughter,
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  Speaker 1: teen girl. Um bottom line saying, just runner the f over. Wow.
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  Speaker 1: You know, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Coldcase Research Institute,
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  Speaker 1: We've certainly seen our sharecases. But when I hear that
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  Speaker 1: dad speaking, I can just hear my father on the
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  Speaker 1: front steps of the house, tearing everybody a new rear end,
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  Speaker 1: defending me, blaming everybody else, I mean, willing to throw
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  Speaker 1: a punch. I can this just reminds me so much
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  Speaker 1: of my dad. You know, I think that there is
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  Speaker 1: a grain of truth in what he's saying. Look at it.
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  Speaker 1: This boyfriend is the one who said he could find
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  Speaker 1: a hitman. I'm not defending her because I guarantee you
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  Speaker 1: they've got her on tape, They've got her on video.
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  Speaker 1: They've got a picture of her pulling out the seven grand,
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  Speaker 1: which is coincidentally the same amount of the hit man
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  Speaker 1: wanted the fake hit man. I mean, yes, but I
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  Speaker 1: think that boyfriend may have been stirring the pots. Cheryl McCollum,
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  Speaker 1: well the biggest and her dad and mister mack is
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  Speaker 1: he had every right your dad to defend you. You
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  Speaker 1: didn't have a stream of exits in your background. They
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  Speaker 1: all had arrested you, and that you had physically fought
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  Speaker 1: with and you worked written up every five minutes. And
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  Speaker 1: Louis Layton golle, Oh oh oh no, her background is flag.
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  Speaker 1: Got the flag, got the flag. That's the flag. Now
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  Speaker 1: you know what I'm given. I was cutting her some
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  Speaker 1: slight because of the boyfriend, but you know what, it's
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  Speaker 1: her record. Karen Stark Psychologists. You can find her at
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  Speaker 1: Karen Stark dot com. Joining us today from Manhattan, Karen Stark.
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  Speaker 1: It's her record. Look, you can blame the boyfriends all
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  Speaker 1: you want to, you can blame the ex husband all
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  Speaker 1: you want to. She's the one that took the money
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  Speaker 1: out of the bank to pay the hitman. She's the
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  Speaker 1: one that said runner the f over to the hitman.
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure she's on tape. You know, they got to
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  Speaker 1: get everything on tape. She was part of it. Part
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  Speaker 1: about a psychopath. Man, go ahead, you're talking about a psychopath.
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  Speaker 1: And when you're talking about somebody like that and murderer,
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  Speaker 1: you cannot persuade another person to commit those kind of crimes.
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  Speaker 1: And I think it's absolutely true that your dad would
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  Speaker 1: not have been defending you in a situation like that,
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  Speaker 1: but you wouldn't be in a situation like that. You're
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  Speaker 1: talking about somebody who has no feelings. So it doesn't
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  Speaker 1: take a lot to stir somebody up and get them
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  Speaker 1: to decide, you know what my ex is in the way.
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  Speaker 1: I think I'll just kill him. And while I'm at it,
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  Speaker 1: why not kill your daughter? Because you know she's annoying
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  Speaker 1: to me too, And that's people are not real. She
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  Speaker 1: could care less about what she does you know, Andy Patrick,
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  Speaker 1: Karen Stark is right. I guess I was projecting dealt
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  Speaker 1: with so many women that have gotten tangled up with
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  Speaker 1: bad guys and then they get dragged down the rabbit
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  Speaker 1: hole with them. But it's this woman, it's her, It
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  Speaker 1: is Vali Cincinnelli, because aside from each particular man, if
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  Speaker 1: you look at her history, she's got the first incident
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  Speaker 1: where she's caught on duty hanging out at some guy's house.
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  Speaker 1: Then she's been arrested for another incident and with a boyfriend.
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  Speaker 1: Now this incident, I mean that's three. That's three. I
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  Speaker 1: mean if I showed up late to court one time,
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  Speaker 1: I'd be in trouble as an assistant district attorney. I
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  Speaker 1: mean trouble. So at what point do we quit cutting
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  Speaker 1: her a brake and blaming it on a bad guy.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, you can't turn away from the fact that
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  Speaker 1: when you don't know a horse, look at his track record.
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  Speaker 1: She's got three incidents already. Wendy, that's right, So three strikes,
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  Speaker 1: you're out now here we are again, and that you're
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  Speaker 1: absolutely right. You know, prior bad acts is the legal definition.
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  Speaker 1: It shouldn't really be called that because they're not bad acts.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they're criminals, sometimes they are Sometimes say, patterns make
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  Speaker 1: the predator when we're talking about sex offenses. But in
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  Speaker 1: a pattern like this, you just gotta wonder whether or
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: not at what point is it her own bad choices
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  Speaker 1: that is to blame, rather than being under the influence
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  Speaker 1: of a bad relationship. And one of the issues in
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: court is going to be how much of these prior
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  Speaker 1: incidents are admissible in order to explain what she did.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Are they relevant enough? Are they similar enough? Maybe not,
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  Speaker 1: But it also cuts against the really giving her a break,
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  Speaker 1: which is something that the jury might otherwise be tempted
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  Speaker 1: to do. Well, this is what we know. Cincinneli was
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: hired two thousand and seven. She was a domestic violence
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: officer assigned to THEE hundred and six precinct. She became
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: involved with a local man she met on the job.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: She was stripped of her badging gun in twenty seventeen
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  Speaker 1: after she ended the relationship and the guy rated her
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: out internal affairs, claiming she spent time at as Howard
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  Speaker 1: Beach home while on duty. What a coinkie dink that
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: he reported her after she dumped him. So we're not
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  Speaker 1: sure if that's the guy who was described as an
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: older quote sugar daddy who pay for her car and
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  Speaker 1: other bills. Or is that the same one in this
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  Speaker 1: alleged murder for hire plot. What we do know is
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: her husband, Isaiah Carvalho Junior, sued her for divorce in
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  Speaker 1: Nassau County. They had a trial set for June. You know,
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  Speaker 1: the divorced lawyer is happy the whole thing was foiled.
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  Speaker 1: But I want to get back to the facts, John Linley,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. I want you to
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: take a listen to CBS Valerie Castro as for her
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: ex husband, she hoped his death could be made to
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: look like a robbery gone bad. Friday morning, FBI agents
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: posing as the hitman sent her text messages which included
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: a photograph of the defendant's estranged husband appearing dead in
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: his car and the demand for an additional three thousand
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: dollars to kill the daughter. Cincinneli then allegedly told her
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: boyfriend she was deleting the text messages and pictures to
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: cover up her involvement in the crime. The allegations are
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: tough to grasp for the man who lives next door
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: and has met both Cincinneli's ex husband and her current boyfriend.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: She's got two kids, man, and she's a police officer.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Will she really do something like that? I don't know.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Cincinnelli's father says his daughter is the real victim of
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: the man who turned against her. There's no doubt that
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: he manipulated multiple conversations to come up with his statements.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: He's very smart, but he's a pathological liar and there's
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: something wrong with his brain, investigators say. Cincinneli was also
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: recorded discussing what her alibi would be, saying she would
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: be sure to be home at the time of the murders.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: She's being held without bail. Prosecutors argued she is a
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: danger to the community crisis with Nancy Grace. As for
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: her ex husband, she hoped his death could be made
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: to look like a robbery gone bad. Friday morning, FBI
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: agents posing as the hitman sent her text messages, which
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: included a photograph of the defendant's estranged husband appearing dead
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: in his car and the demand for an additional three
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars to kill the daughter. Cincinneli then allegedly told
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend she was deleting the text messages and pictures
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: to cover up her involvement in the crime. The allegations
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: are tough to grasp for the man who lives next
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: door and has met both Cincinneli's ex husband and her
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: current boyfriend. She's got two kids, man, and she's a
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: police officer. Will she really do something like that? I
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: don't know. Cincinnelli's father says his daughter is the real
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: victim of the man who turned against her. There's no
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: doubt that he manipulated multiple conversations to come up with
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: his statements. He's very smart, but he's a pathological liar
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: and there's something wrong with his brain, investigators say. Cincinneli
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: was also reported discussing what her alibi would be, saying
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: she would be sure to be home at the time
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: of the murders. She's being held without bail. Prosecutors argued
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: she is a danger to the community. Whoa we are
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: talking about an NYPD officer's Jennifer Lopez look alike who
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: allegedly hires a hitman not only to murder her ex
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: her husband seeking a divorce, but also to murder her
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: boyfriend's teen daughter who doesn't like her. Straight out to
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Sharyl mccollins, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Wow,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: there's no way around that, not at all. And Nancy,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: you know you and I used to discuss all the time.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: The best condictor of future behavior is past behavior. Two
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: men have gotten restrainting orders against this woman. Even if
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: you listen to her dad. He talks about the current boyfriend.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: He says it's alive. But he said the current boyfriend
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: said she pulled a gun only and threatened to kill him.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: This isn't new behavior for her, this violence, you know,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: plotting and scheming. I don't think if anything new. I
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: really don't. The jury, you know, they're gonna understand. Oh
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: you're a man of Nick Cousman, you won't him murdered. Okay,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: that's you know whatever. But you throw in that little girl,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: that's a game changer for anybody. That is, as we say,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: the fly in the ointment Bobby Chicon if BI special agent.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Have you noticed that when you're in the force, when
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: you're a prosecutor or a cop or a bell bondsman,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: you're in the business for a long time, you're in
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: that Meylou, you get used to it. You get numbed
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: to it. Not numb, I guess numb isn't the right word.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: You are conditioned to it. You're you're not shocked anymore.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: You accept things more quickly than you did before you
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: were in the crime business. And I really think that
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: some cops go bad because it just doesn't seem that
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: bad to them anymore because they've been around it so much.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: It's like this, the first time I ever had to curse.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I mean every foul word you can think of, the
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: C word, the P word, the F word, the every
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: word you can think of. I was reading a statement
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: to a jury. I was telling a jury what the
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: defendant had said, and I had to really work myself
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: up to say these words out loud in front of
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: a jury, and they were shocked, and I was shocked.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I could hardly say it. But then the next time
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I said it, Bobby Chekong wasn't so hard. Then the
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: next time, and before you knew it, I was just
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: saying it all on my own. I wasn't quoting a
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: defendant anymore. I had to clean up my app when
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I had the twins. Of course, no more of that.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying. You're around this, You're around
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: crime all the time, and somehow out to some people,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: it doesn't seem so bad anymore. Well, I don't know, Nancy.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: You know, I take my dad as an example. He
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: was a detective in the fifties and sixties at the
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: NYPD in the seventies, and yes, while he did develop
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: a hardened shell at work when he saw all these
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: things and he couldn't react to them as much, he
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: couldn't be emotional about it, but at the same time,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: at home with his family, he became more caring and
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: more kind and more protective because of the things he
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: was seeing at work. And so, you know, he drew
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: that line, and most of us have drawn that line.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: With the things we see at work, the things we
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: see in the street, we don't bring home. This officer
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: had no line. It seems like the things that she
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: was experienced at work, she thought we are fine to
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: bring home and actually do at home. So I think
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: that in this case the line she just didn't have
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: a line. And I think that many of us developed
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: that line where we've become more caring and more concerned,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: more protective at home because of the things we see,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: and the more things we see at work. Well, Wendy Patrick, California, prosecutor,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: author of red flags. That's the way prosecution worked on me.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I became more vigilant, more protective, more alert, but I
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: wasn't as shocked. I was still hurt every time I
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: would see a violent crime victim, but I wasn't shocked anymore.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: After you see it thousands and thousands, literally tens of
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: thousands of times, you're not shocked anymore. And I'm wondering
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: if that's what happened to Valorie Cincinneli. It kind of
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: became okay in her mind. Yeah. You know, Nancy, you
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: may not be shocked, but you are still passionate about
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: what you do. I can hear it in your voice
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: every time you discuss a segment, So too with all
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: my fellow guests. The passion is still there, wanting justice
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: for victims. What we just heard was completely devoid of
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: any of that. The laughing and in discussing, well, how
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: is it going to happen, the date that it would
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: be convenient, Those kinds of things really evinces. I think
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: one of your other guests said, almost a callousness that
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: goes above and beyond simply be coming desensitized because you
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: work law enforcement for too many years that tape and
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: that voice, that is what's going to be most persuasive
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: to a jury. You just can't capture that through a
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: transcriptor through somebody else describing what she said. It is
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: that I suppose lack of passion and concern that I
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: think is going to be most telling when that's gets
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: in front of a trial. Take a listen to this. Cincinneli,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: a twelve year NYPD department veteran, is currently charged with
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: conspiracy to commit murdered. A federal criminal complaint details how
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: she allegedly tried to persuade her boyfriend, he cs in
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: the complaint, to hire a hitman to kill not just
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: her estranged husband, but also have that hitman murder her
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: boyfriend's teenage daughter for seven thousand dollars cash. I'm not
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: going to comment on that because I really, you know,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: it just seems to me that everything's just a little
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: bit exaggerated. Right now, I don't know what kind of
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: evidence they have. Cincinnelli's boyfriend, presumably opposed to having his
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: own daughter murdered, began cooperating with the FBI. He wore
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: a wire and recorded his conversations, in which prosecutors say
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Cincinneli discussed how to carry out the murders and alibis.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: When it was time for the cover up, Cincinneli was
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: arrested before anyone was hurt. I really am hawtbroken about it.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: That little boy's gonna grow up, really messed up, really
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: messed up. That's from Pick reporter Jay Drew. We're hearing
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: the very latest about an NYPD New York Police Department
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: officer who allegedly hires a hit manter murder not only
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: her ex husband, but her boyfriend's daughter as well. Crime
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. FBI agents took the thirty four
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: year old mother of two out of her Oceanside, Long
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Island home in their custody Friday afternoon, and agents were
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: still at the home later in the evening. Neighbors we
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: spoke with who did not want to go on camera,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: all separately described a nasty marriage breakup, arguments in the street,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: and hinted at officers Cincinneli's temper. Her next door neighbor
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: was the only person willing to go on camera, and
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: he chose his words carefully. We all have tempers. I
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: understand that, but did her stand out? I wouldn't say
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: it stood out, No, she verbalized herself, of course, with
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: the kids, the stress and everything, But I don't know
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: if she was. I wouldn't take it as anything excessive.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: That's from Picks reporter Jay Drew. We are hearing the
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: very latest about an NYPD New York Police Department officer
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: who allegedly hires a hit manter murder not only her
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: ex husband, but her boyfriend's daughter as well. Joining me
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: an all star panels Cheryl mccollin, Director Coalcase Research Institute,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags on Amazon,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Bobby Chicon, FBI special agent, Karen Stark, psychologist Karen Stark
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: dot com, and John Linley Crime online dot Com investigative reporter.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you something to you, John Limley, We're
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: learning that the boyfriend balked when it came to murdering
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: his own daughter, but it sounds like she, Valerie Cincinneli
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: was going forward with the plan anyway. Yeah, that was
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: she was. What's the phrase, hell bent on getting this
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: taken care of? You know, it's sort of ironic. Wait
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: a minute, what are you saying getting it taken care of?
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: That sounds like you're going to run down to the
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: mead first and get a shot. We're going to get
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: that taken care of. That's sort of the way I
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: know she may, but not you Limley, for Pete's sake.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Oh oh heavens no, okay, Mary Poppins, John Limley. Getting
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: it taken care of. It is hardly a way to
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: describe having the girl effing run over outside of school.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Bobby Chicone, FBI special Agent. Why did she was she
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: so intent on having the murders occur outside? Well, and
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: this is one thing that the jury's going to get
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: chilled at is the callousness of her talk. She didn't want,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: she didn't want her place to get messed up, the
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: callousness of you're about to murder to your ex husband,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: the father your child, and your only concerns is that
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: if it happens inside, it might be too messy. So
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: what we know is Officer Vali Cincinnelli was introduced to
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Isaiah Carvalha Junior, her future husband turned murder target, by
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Detective Patrick Roach, also of the ny PD. Now what's
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: the connection between them, John Linley, They were They were
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: simply friends, and of course she was a co worker
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: with the man. Now, It's interesting the way that Isaiah
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Carvallo found out about this whole plot to have him
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: wiped out. You know, this has been going on since February,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: this plotting to have him and the daughter murdered. He
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: woke up on Friday morning and found out just before
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: the rest of the world that you know, he thought
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: his life was about to turn her because he was
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: about to wrap up what had been a messy divorce
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: with Vincinelli or Cincinnelli. Instead, he was told that this
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: strange wife had been plotting to have him killed all winter.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: There had been five months that had gone by since
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Caravallo had filed for divorce from his wife after a
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: messy custody battle over that son. The matter seemed to
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: be almost settled, and it was, but not the way
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: mister Carvallo had hoped for. Well, this is what we know.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: According to court document. Cincinnelli tells the boyfriend to tell
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: the hitman to quote run her his daughter the f
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: over to make the girl's death look like a hit
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: and run. So the boyfriend's strings Cincinnelli a long while
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: the FBI is gathering information, telling her he was in
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: contact with a hitman and that everything was moving forward.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: So then the boyfriend tells Cincinnelli that the hitman was
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: stalking her ex husband Carvalho at his workplace on Long Island.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: But then Cincinnelli didn't like that. She thought that area
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: was too up scale, and she wanted her husband to
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: be killed quote in the hood so it would not
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: look suspicious. All right, Cheryl McCollum, what about that. Here's
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: the greatest part of this whole thing, Nancy, Because every
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: time I hear a case like this, I have you
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: in my head when you used to be my prosecutor.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: And here's what I think the prosecution is gonna do.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Every single time the FBI contacted her as the alleged
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: hit man and they said, hey, you got the money,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: you know to call it back? Hey, make sure he
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: converted to coins callback. How do you want this done?
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Oh when the ghetto? You want to run the f
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: over every single text message and every single phone call.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: She could have stopped it, Nancy. And they're gonna show
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: that not only Hey, I know you would. I can
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: hear it. I can literally hear you in my head.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what I would do, you know, Because Cheryl
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: McCall him, I don't know if you recall, yes, sometimes
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I would have up. I would have fifteen or twenty
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: four foot posters at once, and each poster would be
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: full of quote evidence proving guilt, every text, every word.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: She uttered the ATM withdraw. Have you guys seen her
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: on video? I'm looking at her run home. Did she
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: not call at all? Not only does she not say
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I have lost my mind. I've got my own children
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: that I'm gonna love and raise and take care of,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: she says Rutter, the fo man, I mean when you're
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: dealing with Okay, A lot of women on the jury
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: would say, yeah, I think the evidence is weak when
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: it comes to killing the ex husband. They might give
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: her a little free beyond that one. But on the
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: teen daughter, she's going down. On that, she is going down.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: And Bobby chic on FBI specialize it. When the Feds
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: get you, they've got you every which way. And I
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: know that from being a FED we couldn't proceed on
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: a single case unless we had forty fifty boxes of evidence.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: And I'm not kidding or exaggerating, Bobby, they've got her, no,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: not at all. In fact that most of the time
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: I was always ready to proceed with a case long
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: before my assistant United States Attorney was ready to go.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: They've always wanted and in this kind of case, you
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: can almost anticipate the defense. So what they did was
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: they went painstakingly at her because they knew what the
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: defense was going to be. They knew what they were
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: going to argue, and so they wanted to counter that beforehand.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: They wanted to get the evidence to counter the anticipated defenses.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: And really, in the case like this, the best evidence
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: you have is hearing from the defendant themselves, because they're
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: not going to take the stand. I think that the
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: best thing that's going to happen is the jury is
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: going to hear on her own words. The prosecutor at
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: the initial hearing said they have an overwhelming amount of evidence,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: and I think they did that, you know, purposely, because
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: they know that these cases sometimes can be difficult. She's
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: a mother, you know, she's got young children her home,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: and so they went out and got an abundance of
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: evidence against her. And the jury is going to hear
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: that and see her and hear her own words and
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: see her behavior firsthand, right, And I think that's going
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: to be damning in this case. You know what Karen Stark, psychologist,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: joining me today from Manhattan. You can find her at
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Karen Stark dot com. Karen, I can't put my finger
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: on this, and I bet you're going to have just
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: the right description. What is really getting made distraught about
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: this is the way she describes everything. Like she's worried
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: about her home getting messy if you kill them there.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: She is worried about the schedule interfering with her schedule.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: She's worried the two deaths close together might raise suspicions,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: so she tells the boyfriend to have the hitman kill
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: his daughter over the weekend, then wait a week or
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: a month, and then kill her husband. I mean, she's
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: so casual about it. This is human life, the life
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: of a teen girl, a little girl. This little girl's
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: just four years older than Lucy and John David, and
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: she wants to have her run down in the street
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: and leave her dine on the side of the road.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: And she's fine with that. She's more worried about getting
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: blood spatter on her sofa or on her carpet in
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: her place. That is just pushing me over the edge,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: because Nancy, it's just what's so confusing about it, there's
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: a disconnect. Shouldn't be outside, no one should be inside,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: And she's kind of flirtatious and behind it all, she
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: is plotting to murder two people, one a little bit
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: older than your own children and an ex husband. How
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: do you put those two things together? We wait as
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,