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Redefining Success as a Writer with Tim Schurrer · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for writing success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: For more resources, including your free Daily Rider Starter Kit, visit DailyRiderLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: How do you define success as a writer?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a question that we must constantly wrestle with as people who are putting so much of ourselves into our creative work and then sharing it with the world.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm thrilled that my guest today is here to help us think about what it means to be successful not just as a writer, but also as a person doing important work in the world.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: His name is Tim Schürer, and he's the author of the fantastic new book, The Secret Society of Success.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Tim spent almost a decade of his career launching two brands, which is Story Brand and Business Made Simple, as COO alongside New York Times bestselling author Donald Miller.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Before that, Tim worked at Tom's as well as Apple.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Tim is also the host of the Building a Winning Team podcast, where he offers listeners actionable advice as he interviews some of the top leaders in business.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Tim lives in Nashville, Tennessee with his wife, Katie, and their two kids.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: In this conversation, we talk about how to redefine success as writers by impacting one person at a time and letting that be enough.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Success is helping other people win when it comes right down to it.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we must also become content doing the work and being obsessed with the journey instead of just being obsessed with the end result.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this was a really, really fun conversation.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I learned a ton, and I think you're going to be really impacted and inspired by what Tim shares in this conversation as well.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Also I want to encourage you to grab the first two chapters of Tim's book, The Secret Society of Success, for free at secretsocietyfree.com.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So with that said, let's get right to the conversation with Tim Schurer.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Tim, welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: We have never talked before, so this is actually the first time that we've connected.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I am thrilled that we get to talk about your amazing book, The Secret Society of Success.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pumped to be here.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been so fun, even just in the few minutes before we hit record, getting to spend a little time with you and learn all about what you're up to and how you're adding value to people's lives.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really looking forward to this.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: One of the challenges of doing a podcast, of course, you know this because you've been around the podcasting world for a long time yourself, is that when you when you talk to people about their books, if the book is really good, then you really have to kind of pick and choose the themes that you want to chat about.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And your book presents a big challenge because literally every chapter in your book, The Secret Society of Success, we could have probably a whole podcast conversation about it because each one of these applies to writers so much.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just really such a great book.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So congrats on doing a great book first and foremost.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and as we're crafting the book, we learn from paradigm shifts.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to just highlight the transformation I hope that people would experience, even in their mindset and how they think about things in each and every chapter.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then ultimately each of those chapters would ladder up to the book itself.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's fun to hear you even say that because that to me is an encouragement of okay, we we we did that.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: We helped people think about something in a new way.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so many layers to each chapter and idea.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I love hearing you say it's very, very interesting.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, before I dive into some questions related to specific chapters in the book, can you give us a rundown of where did the idea for this book come from?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because every, you know, I think one of the fun things about being around the book world and in the book world, I guess, is that you see the final product, but most of the time that book had a very interesting journey.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: It started out kind of as an idea that somebody had.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then we see the final product, you know, a year or two later.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Where did this book actually start out?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what was the journey to it becoming an actual thing?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I started in college writing songs and thought I was going to be the next John Mayer.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is really where this whole story starts.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I was chasing this idea of being a musician and ended up moving from Kansas City, where I grew up and went to the first two years of college there, then moved to Nashville to pursue this dream of being a musician.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And met some friends along the way that were also pursuing this music dream.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And as I started to look at what I had compared to what other people had, I just realized, man, there are so many people that are working so much less hard.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the right way to say it, but you know what I'm saying?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost it was so effortless and easy for them in what they were doing and creating music and getting people to engage with it, having people show up at their shows and listen to their music.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I was trying so hard to just keep making it work.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And things just weren't working for me.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't selling the records that I wanted, I wasn't attracting this big fan base.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a line in a book from Chip and Dan Heath that I was reading at the time that really caught me.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it says, This are you demanding or attracting attention?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I just realized in all of my time trying to be the next John Mayer, I was demanding attention.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Where some of these other people, it's like, like I said, effortless.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't even trying and they were attracting attention.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started to think about what would it look like for me to still be a part of music, but not necessarily have to be the guy on stage?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: That led me on this journey to being a tour manager where I'm working behind the scenes.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, then I became an artist manager, working alongside a musician, but managing the business side of things.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm a strategic partner.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm involved in the whole thing.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I started to experience the joy and all of the fulfillment that I was looking for in me creating my own projects, but I was experiencing that in a behind-the-scenes role.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And fast forward, I ended up working alongside uh an author named Donald Miller, who's written multiple New York Times bestsellers.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: He sold, you know, over a million copies of his books and started working with him to build a company.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And for the last 10 years, I'd worked with Don in launching a business called Story Brand and Business Made Simple.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what's been really interesting in my career evolution is the further and further I got away from the spotlight, the more and more contentment and fulfillment I actually felt like I had.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's fascinating.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, this idea of if we want to be successful, does it actually look like having to chase the spotlight or climb the ladder?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do we have to be the boss to find contentment and happiness?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because when I hear people say that, and then I look at my own experience, I just am thinking, is it like surely there's another way?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm over here chasing another path.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, the contentment fulfillment I'm looking for, I'm getting.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I just have to believe I'm not the only one.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really what I was experiencing.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Then had this dream of writing a book.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And as you're thinking about, okay, what do I want to write about?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of what I just shared was a part of the equation in me determining what it is that I'd ultimately want to dive into and explore.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so this book now is talking through that journey and trying to connect my story to what other people are experiencing in theirs.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's a lot to dig into with all that.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Before I forget though, one thing that I want to compliment you on is I just want to say thank you for being a part of the team who created Business Made Simple.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know that's not what this interview is about, but I've uh been a subscriber to Business Made Simple for a couple of years, and I really, really love it.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's I think it the trend the educational model there is transformational.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love the courses, I love how they're put together.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: I used to be a college professor, I did that job for 17 years.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so coming from an educational background, I love how everything is so streamlined.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's so well done.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I just, I really, really appreciate we what you guys were able to put together with that.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Just sort of as a little aside.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I it takes a whole team to make that thing happen.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really grateful for having had the opportunity to be a part of that team.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And what I love about that mentality, even of every single staff member as we're creating these courses and all the other things that we would put out is we're just thinking of how can we add value?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And how is it that we can help somebody progress in their life or their career or build their business, think about things in a new way?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we just poured all of our effort and energy in just adding value.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's been really fun over the years to hear how these courses and books and things that we create have really helped people in navigating their lives and their careers.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's cool to hear you say that.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I I feel really lucky to have been a small part of that.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, so right here on my desk, now this is obviously an audio podcast, so nobody can see this, but so I've got a last year I went through the Hero and Emission course, you know, the the life planning course.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is the notebook with all of my stuff in it.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I went actually to a great deal of trouble like printing all this out really nicely and creating my own sort of templates for this.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I say that because the the stuff was so good.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: I really wanted to take it seriously.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm actually gonna go through and do an update of this uh probably in the next couple of weeks.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, the stuff there is so good.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting that your background and all of that really was a transformational experience for you where it convinced you that, yeah, you don't really have to be in the spotlight or the one that's front and center to make a big difference, which is so so much the opposite of all of a lot of the conversations that happen in the writing and in the author world.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like you've got to have your name on the book, you've got to build a personal brand, and you have to sort of be the guy or the gal that's that's front and center.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's so interesting to kind of hear that contrast.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: So one of my favorite stories, someone who has inspired me a lot in all of this is Apollo 11.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And people are familiar with Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, but what a lot of people know, a lot of people don't know, there's a third astronaut on that mission, and his name was Michael Collins.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So Michael Collins Ubers Neil and Buzz to the moon.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: He gets them up there, then drops them off.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Those guys then do all the things that they have to do on the moon's surface, while he actually stays back in the command module and orbits the moon something like 26 times until the guys are ready to be picked up and brought back to Earth.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And what I love so much about this story is when Michael Collins gets back to Earth and sits down with the press, he talks about how content he was to have had one of those three seats.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: It would have been so easy for him to be resentful that he had traveled as far as he did, done all of the work, and and yet didn't step foot on the moon.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: But he talked about that contentment he had in the role that he played.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's so much in our culture today that says to be successful, you need to be the one walking on the moon.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: But what Michael Collins has taught me is, do I though?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because he never did, and yet he was happy playing the role that he played.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so many people like the Michael Collinses of the world who do things at a really high level and have made a significant impact, but nobody's talking about them.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't mean that they're any less important, and it also doesn't mean that that means we should settle or not chase excellence or that we should not be ambitious.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Michael actually says, look at the guy.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the guy was one of the three people chosen to go to the for crying out loud.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: The the first doing things at a high level, performing and doing his part with excellence.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so, if anything, it's motivation for me to continue leaning into the things that I feel uniquely uniquely gifted to do, but not being concerned about if there's fanfare or notoriety that comes along with it.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't it true that if you if you are chasing notoriety or fame or recognition, that it doesn't really matter how much of that you get, you're never satisfied with it.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like that that thing of um, you know, if you're a drowning man in the ocean and you're drinking the water, it's like the more that you take in, it's still never going to quench that thirst.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know if that analogy works in this context, but I'm gonna go with it.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it but if somebody, if all that you want is recognition, it doesn't matter how much you get, you're still going to constantly crave it.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Would you is that is that is that what kind of what you have seen in your inner interactions and engagement with different people?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I live in Nashville, so I'm friends with a lot of musicians.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you're right in the thick of it.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it you are so right because so many of the conversations that I've had and also here people have it's you go have this aspiration, this goal of playing this one venue, and you finally get there, and there's always another one.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you you want to play at the Ryman Auditorium, the mother church, the place that people want to play and headline one day.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: You do it, and then you realize oh, there's another level ahead of that.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wait, so you just sold out two nights at the Ryman?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, it's not that big of a deal because this amphitheater over here has even more people than that.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, right.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: You you actually sold a ton of tickets at the amphitheater.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's actually Bridgestone Arena, and this person played at Bridgestone.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so it's it is true, there is always another level.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think what's important here is what is success really?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because if it's number of fans, if it's that, you know, check the box playing or experiencing this venue, there is always another one.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so we need to get really clear about what a version of success is for us that actually is sustainable.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: What if success is enjoying your work?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: You get to actually be successful regardless of the size of venue that you're playing at.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: You get to be successful, even if the experiences that maybe you see other people have you might not experience quite yet, but you can actually enjoy your work.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's just important that we all get really clear about our definition of success.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I were to ask you, fill in the blank for me, success is you know, we we all get to define that for ourselves and live into that.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the mistake that a lot of people make is they don't take the time to define it for themselves.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: They actually just default to these cultural definitions of fame, money, and power.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And there is always another level, like you're saying.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, with the people around you who are making the most impact, whether it's Nashville artists and musicians, famous authors that you that you have known or been friends with, with the people that you feel like are making the biggest impact, how do they typically define success?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the number of people they have helped, or what are their metrics for defining success in a healthy way?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a place in Nashville called Thistle Farms, and it is a place where women can go that have come off the streets.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: So they've had lives of prostitution, drug addiction, sex trafficking, and thistle farms is a place where it's a two-year recovery program where they can heal and recover from the trauma and the lives that they've experienced.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And Thistle Farms, the way that they kind of fund that whole model is the women actually have a free bed, you know, for that two years.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: The program is free.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: But the way that they um are able to build living wages for themselves is they make soaps and lotions and candles.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I actually have a candle sitting right here on my desk from Thistle Farms.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went uh to Thistle Farm.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I've been so often, but um on Wednesdays they do this meditation, and all these women circle up and um, you know, are they they always say, like, we light the candle for the woman who's still finding her way home.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll give you a tour of the facility you get to see how they go about making all these products.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And women that um are in the program or um alumni from this program are often the tour guides.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting to your point.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, this is a longer story, but I love getting there.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, so Jennifer is one of these tour guides.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, Jennifer had this life as you know, a prostitute and you know, drug addiction, all that.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um I was able to sit down with her one day and I asked her, where would you be without Becca Stevens in your life?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Becca Stevens is the person who started Thistle Farms and started this movement 25 years ago helping women get off the streets.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And Jennifer said, you know, when I asked her, yeah, where would you be without Becca Stevens?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And she didn't hesitate.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she said, I'd be dead.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Without Becca, I'd be dead.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And there is this belief that if we want to make an impact, we need to impact tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of lives.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like people need to know who we are, and we're making this big, massive splash.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: But someone like Becca Stevens, the model that she follows is one life at a time.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: That is success.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe over time your impact will accumulate and you will have had the opportunity to touch hundreds or thousands or you know, millions of lives.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: But the people that I've been inspired by the most, they didn't get there by trying to get there.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: They focused on one life at a time and let that be enough.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me is so inspiring for all of us because we all have the opportunity to impact one person.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: You may not be leading a company that has a massive audience, but I'm sure you can think of one person that you could invest in, that one person that you were writing to that you maybe will be able to encourage and shape their thoughts and potentially their the trajectory of their lives.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: But what if you focus on that one person?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: What would that do for you?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's really powerful.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've never heard it put like that, but specifically the phrase and let that excuse me, let that be enough.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's really, really powerful.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's I mean, if you ever do a follow-up book, that would be a phenomenal title.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because that goes against so much of the popular thinking, particularly in like the online entrepreneur space, influencers, writers, musicians, artists, that kind of a thing.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because so much of we of what we see out there is yeah, this is great, but I want something more.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: I want that next book, I want that next movie, I want that next level of success, whatever that metric is.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so oftentimes we don't just sit and go, yeah, you know what, that's enough.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's and I'm content with that being enough.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it comes down to defining what success is.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: If your definition of success is impacting millions of people, then impacting one person doesn't feel like enough.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: But if we just rethink what success actually is, if we started to define it by one life at a time, then we can say with confidence, I am successful.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I heard somebody named Andy Stanley say this what if your greatest contribution isn't something that you do, but it's in someone you raise.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So even looking at something like parenting being the greatest opportunity that you have to make an impact in the world, and I think some so often people will think of parenting as, oh, this is just this thing that I am doing, but the real impact that I'm gonna make is in building this business or in writing that book that you know is inspiring millions of people or thousands of people.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I just love that perspective.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: What if how you show up today for your kids matters?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Would that be enough if those were the two people that stand up at your funeral and talk about the impact that you've made in in their lives?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Would that be enough for you?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people need to answer that question honestly.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because for some people that might not feel like enough.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I continue to ask the why layered questions like, why?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and just keep going.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to be somebody who starts to define success as one life at a time.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let that be enough.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think in some ways that past generations had it easier?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: In the sense of, you know, when I think of my grandparents or even my parents, probably for that matter, it was considered enough to have a house that you live in, to have a healthy family, to have uh a steady job.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that was really considered what that was what success was considered to be.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: But yet today with social media and everything, we are constantly exposed to people who have these crazy high levels of financial success or um or you know, being a celebrity or an influencer or whatever.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's almost like we're surrounded by examples of, well, whatever you, whatever success you have achieved, it's really not enough.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: So in some ways, I almost kind of envy, you know, like our grandparents who grew up in an age where life just seemed to be more I sound like a really old man right now.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure why.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but do you kind of I don't know.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: In some ways, I'm sort of jealous of people who grew up, you know, 50 years ago.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think they were up against the same thing, but I think our frequency has increased like crazy.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's always been celebrity and status.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's an appeal to that and always has been.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it just wasn't in their face as much every day.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they might get the newspaper once a day and read about some of these people and these stories.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're up against it every 15 seconds if we open and refresh anything that we open on our phones.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think it's more challenging than ever before.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: We have to get clear about what success is because if we don't get clear on what it is, we will continue chasing what it's not.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so it yes, we need to get clear.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: We need to be intentional about how we show up and what it is that we truly do want and value.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you think that that we can balance the idea of impacting one life at a time or and letting that be enough?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: But also sort of the business side of things where we do have metrics.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: We have subscribers that we're shooting for with podcast downloads or book sales or uh income goals or whatever.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: How do you personally maintain the tension between those two things?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: In 2015, Dawn released a book called Scary Close.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And about 10 days after a book comes out, you know this.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's when you find out if it hits these bestseller lists.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So Don's in the office that day, gets a phone call from the publisher.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: We knew this was going to be the call where we'd find out.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he hangs up.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's on pins and needles.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: So he hangs up, lifts his hands in the air, and says, We hit number five on the New York Times.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the highest any of his books had ever been on the New York Times.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we're high five, and everyone's celebrating, hugging.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was fun.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: But then something really beautiful happened.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: We all walked back to our desks and went back to work.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And some people would hear that story and say, y'all are dysfunctional.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know how to celebrate wins.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I look at that very differently.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think about this story as a beautiful example of a group of people, a company culture that had been created where we were content doing the work.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's good right there.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: We we had aspirations to hit this list.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: We we wanted to sell a lot of books, but we were also content and going to be showing up the same exact way an hour later or the next day, whether or not we hit that list, whether or not we got that accolade.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted to make an impact in the lives of people because we believed in the content and the message.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I hope that if people with good intentions, where they're wanting to create things that add value to people's lives, I hope they sell a crazy amount of books.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: I hope they hit these bestseller lists.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I also hope that they will have found contentment and satisfaction doing the work.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really what separates it.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really a should I be ambitious or not?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's, oh man, be as ambitious as you want, but be ambitious for the right reasons.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a moment for me that I'm most proud of because it was a picture of us showing up for the right reasons in the right way.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it is interesting, and I and I appreciate that story.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a great story, by the way.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: It is really interesting when you talk to people who have been multiple New York Times bestsellers or they've achieved some kind of metrics that other people want.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Many times they'll say, Yeah, I hit this goal, and then it kind of like, well, then I did it again and I did it again.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then it really stopped meaning something after a while because you've kind of achieved that wrong on the ladder.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also interesting because so much of that is not in your control anyway.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, especially if you're working with a publisher, there there are so many factors that you don't really control.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so, in a sense, it's kind of silly to kind of pin your hopes and dreams on things that are out of your control because you're going to be disappointed sooner or later.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's an important part too, is control what you can control.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Focus on the process, not the results.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so many people obsess over that result.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I've learned, and as you have too, there you can't control the results.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the question is, how are you going to show up?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't control the results, what then?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the people that I know have become obsessed with the journey.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: You have no idea if the books that you are writing are going to hit these lists.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: You have no idea if the public will deem them as successful.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so if your contentment is contingent on all of that, then I think you're going to step into every day with you're acknowledging this roller coaster that you're going to go on.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's this extrinsic motivation.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I think contentment and happiness and fulfillment comes from this intrinsic motivation, our motivation ourselves to go about doing the work.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I love, I worked at Apple for a few years, and you know, in some of that time, Steve Jobs was CEO.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I heard him say once, the joy is in the journey.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really trying to take that to heart and learn from him that showing up and doing the work is the journey.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's you can find a lot of joy in that.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't say the joy is in selling millions of iPhones.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: He did that.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: He he he he he did sell that, but he said the joy is in the journey.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think all of us can find ourselves in that in some way.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: One final question here.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And man, I I could talk to you for hours about this stuff because I'm so fascinated by it.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say that that there's value in us letting go of the need for accolades from other people as much as we can, but instead of we focus on giving other people accolades in the sense of whenever we focus on okay, other people lifting me up and other people giving me the accolades and the recognition, when we focus on giving that to other people, it just changes the whole when that becomes our metrics of success about I helped X number of people today instead of, oh, I got recognized by X number of people today.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: That seems to kind of be what this whole message is really about.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Taking the focus off of us receiving everything and really putting the focus on giving and generosity and helping others.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite quotes, and it's been a North Star for me in writing this book, is by Albert Schweitzer.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he says, I don't know what your destiny will be.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps some of you will occupy remarkable positions.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps some of you will become famous by your pens or as artists.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I know one thing the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who have sought and found how to serve.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if there is a common denominator for people in the secret society of success, it's that idea of helping others win.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thinking of somebody else and doing whatever you can to add value to their lives, to move their goals forward.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so, for so many of the people listening, is your motivation to write to get something yourself?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that most writers actually are trying to help people through the things that they have learned and that they've experienced.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they're doing the work of writing it down because they want to help others.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like what a beautiful posture to go about doing your work.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And like Albert Schweitzer says, I think that that satisfaction, that enjoyment, that happiness really does come when we think of serving others.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if we are motivated in that way, I think that's the path to us achieving all of the success that we could possibly imagine.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe the success that we will achieve looks a little bit different from these cultural definitions of what success is.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you don't need to be the person in the spotlight or need to have your name on the front of that book cover to be successful.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe success for you looks like helping one life at a time.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe success looks like enjoying your work, enjoying the journey, finding contentment and showing up each day and putting everything you have into helping somebody else through a journey because of the words that you write.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And may we be people who define success like that.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think if we do, that's really where we're gonna make an impact in the lives of others.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I love this.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is such a great message, and it's an important one, and such a great book.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: So um, kind of as we head toward the the end of and wrapping this conversation up, Tim, where can people find out more about you and the book and all the cool things that you're doing?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: So uh if you go to buildawinningteam.com, um, there's a link there for you to go and get a here.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say this.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: This might actually even be a little bit simpler.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Go to secretsocietyfree.com because I actually have um two free chapters of my book that you can go there, both with the audio version and uh a PDF.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's links there for my podcast if people want to listen to that and the conversations that I'm having with people like Becca Stevens, actually, about one life at a time.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to inspire people to think about success a little bit differently.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that secretsocietyfree.com is kind of a hub for all of that.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Though that will be in the show notes as well as links to the book, podcast, and and everything else.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Tim, this has been an absolute pleasure.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad that we've been able to connect and I'm so excited about helping to share the message of this book.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, really important.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's a it's a great, it's a great antidote really to so much of what we see nowadays, which is putting the focus on ourselves and we have to put ourselves out there more and more and and everything.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: But it's all about serving.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate you taking time to come on the show today and share this with us.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: This has been phenomenal.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Ken, you you show up this way.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're living the message of the secret society of success, and it's really inspiring for me to meet people like you who are willing to do the work, whether or not you ever get the accolade, but you're making a lot of impact in the world because of the work that you do.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate you and how you show up.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for having me.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that was not just an inspiring and fun conversation.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: I also learned a ton.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, it really challenged me because here I am doing podcasting and I'm doing writing and I'm doing ghostwriting and I'm doing all kinds of different things.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: But when it comes right down to it, this is really all about helping other people win.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to ask you the question that Tim sort of posed to me and all of all of us here on this episode, which is how is your work doing that?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: How is your writing?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: How is your creative work?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: How is your business work helping other people to win specifically?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really powerful question.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I guarantee I'm going to be thinking about that really hard in the coming weeks and months as I look at all the things I'm doing and I and as I read, just consider how is what I'm doing actually helping people in a tangible way.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this was such a fun conversation.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that you'll maybe go back and listen to it again and pick up on all the things that Tim shared because there was so much great stuff here.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's it's pretty hard to download it into our brains and just one listen.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna be doing that as well.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: I also want to encourage you to make sure and grab the first two chapters of Tim's book, The Secret Society of Success for Free at Secretsocietyfree.com.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if you like that, go ahead and grab his book.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: I promise you, when you read those first couple chapters, you're gonna realize this is a book that you really need to get.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to thank Tim for taking the time out to be a guest on this episode, particularly in a very busy time where he was launching this book, and he really lives what he preaches.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: He's all about helping other people be more successful and winning, which is why he's so excited about spreading this message and why he wrote the book in the first place.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure and grab the book, get those two free chapters, and I promised you won't be sorry.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, before I wrap up here, I want to let you know that today's episode is brought to you by the Daily Rider Club.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Are you looking for a community of enthusiastic and success-minded writers who are launching books and growing their writing business?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: If so, the Daily Rider Club is the missing piece that you've been searching for.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Members have access to weekly writing sprints and live calls with expert teaching, an active online community, access to retreats and in person events, and best of all, a clear pathway for growing your writing platform and business.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can check it out by going to dailyriderlife.comslash club.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much, and I'll see you tomorrow.