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Dave Asprey - Biohacking Pioneer & Performance Expert | How Biohacking Your Mind Transforms Entrepreneurial Success · Success Story with Scott Clary

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One of the few entrepreneurs to go from zero to $140 million a year in revenue,
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writing a whole bunch of New York Times bestsellers and then getting removed from your own company.
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I'm here and I'm happy and these are the kind of things that can break people.
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He's the father of biohacking, the man who turned coffee into a global movement and aging into
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a solvable problem. Dave Asprey isn't just chasing longevity, he's engineering it.
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It's the things that every leader needs to know. Know yourself, know your target state,
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know how to get there with everything on the planet and then you can be in a state you want all
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the time. If you can manage to be unprogrammable, you get to choose your state and you can choose
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success. With four New York Times bestselling books, hundreds of millions of podcasts downloads
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and a company built on optimizing human potential, Dave's mission is simple, to help you live longer,
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think faster and become the best version of yourself. If you think that you're going to make
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money or be rewarded for doing the right thing, you have a childlike view of the world,
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where trauma comes from if not from growing up. One of them is generational trauma. If your
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parents went through a famine in World War Two, your chances of having type 2 diabetes are
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substantially higher. In this episode, we go deep into what it really takes to upgrade your body,
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your brain and your beliefs. This isn't self-help, it's self-mastery. Everything you've ever done
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that you're ashamed of wasn't you. It was an ancient network of bacteria conspiring to keep
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you alive. Stop feeling shame about it and start doing something about it.
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So Dave, I'm excited to do this. Your new book heavily meditated.
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There's a lot of ideas that come from this book, but there's one that really resonated with me and
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I want to read it and then I want to understand what you were thinking or what prompted this idea.
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So you said in the book, I quote, by combining ancient wisdom with modern science,
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I discovered that you can achieve profound changes in your mental and physical states whether
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through biohacking techniques, neurofeedback, or simply understanding how your body responds
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to stress and stimuli. There are ways to take control of your brain and your body's performance,
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but you need enough energy for your efforts to be effective. Where did this idea come from? Obviously,
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this is probably the culmination of a body and a life's work that led to this, but give us some
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context. One of the few entrepreneurs to go from zero to 140 million dollars a year in revenue.
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There's only 17,000 companies in the US that big. And to do that and to take all the hits you take
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along the way, well simultaneously building a Webby Award-winning podcast, you know a lot about
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building podcasts and writing a whole bunch of New York Times best sellers and having a couple kids.
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And then getting removed from your own company and having it sold out from underneath you for peanuts.
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I'm here and I'm happy and these are the kind of things that can break people. And the only
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reason I can do that I'm nine companies in my portfolio right now, just wrote this book is because
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of the things in the book. This is my most important book ever and heavily meditated. It's the
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things that every leader needs to know. And it's that you've got to know how to regulate yourself.
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And if you're the kind of of leader in your life or in your family or in your company or your
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community who gets dysregulated and you're the person in charge, there will be people who will be
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attracted to that and they're going to come in and they're going to dysregulate you. And reality is
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if you can be triggered, it means you're carrying a loaded gun and someone else has their finger
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on the trigger. Now that's fine. If you just have a 95 job, it's actually not fine. But if you're
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leading a company and you have hundreds of people relying on you for their income and maybe
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hundreds of thousands of customers and you get triggered, you're not just carrying a gun,
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you're carrying a nuclear weapon. So the bigger your influence, the more the need for self-regulation
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and they don't teach this at warden business school. They don't teach it anywhere except maybe in
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monasteries. Probably monasteries. Scott, I don't have 20 years to go sit in a monastery. Do you?
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Okay, I got stuff to do. Nope. So that's why the book is called The Fast Path to remove your triggers
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because I don't want to spend two hours day meditating. I will if I have to, but I'd rather
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spend 10 minutes and then take the rest of the time and maybe go live something heavy or cook a
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ribeye or be with family or come up with a new idea. Like it's your time. You gotta invest it.
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Everyone listening tracks their row as, but do you track your roms? Return on meditation spend.
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Every minute you spend meditating, you're not doing some other stuff. So this is why I wrote the book.
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It's all the techniques that are or are not meditation to shift the state of your biology
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and your mental state and your emotional state so that you can have the performance you want.
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Do you want to show up this way? Calm or do you want to go into an intuitive creative state?
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Or do you want to trip balls without taking psychedelics? There's ways to do all those and all of them
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have merit. So know yourself, know your target state now to get there with everything on the planet
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and then you can be in a state you want all the time and I think that's freedom.
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I think that I think that so many people just drift through life with really no focus, no self-aware
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and there's no understanding of their own mental state. And to your point, that is a that is a
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nuclear bomb. If you end up being successful, I would say I would make the argument that's
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actually highly difficult to be successful without a little bit of introspection and understanding
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your own mental state. But if you manage to do it, then you have the lives of hundreds or thousands
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plus employees and stakeholders and people that are basically potential targets for your
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lack of self-care for really lack of a better description. Was there a point? I mean, I read
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this little paragraph from your book that sort of speaks about combining physical and mental
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and understanding yourself and modern science and ancient wisdom. And even before we press
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record, you said, I only write about things that I actually care about and you've written
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nine books and you only you can't be, you know, you really can't be persuaded to write about
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shit that is just sort of run to the mill that 10 other people, 20 other people have written about.
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And this is very unique. What was the thing in your life that prompted you to care so much
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about understanding your mental state, but not just from a modern perspective, including some of
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these ancient techniques? When I was 26, I made six million dollars. And this was pre-bidened
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dollars, so it was worth something. And I lost when I was 28. And I made that money because I was
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convinced it would make me happy. And I looked at a friend, this is a true story. We're there in
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Santa Clara, California, Silicon Valley. And I'll be happy to when I have 10 million dollars,
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I actually said that. So what a douchebag. But I fully believed that that would make me happy.
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I also tried getting married very briefly in my 20s. And oh, let's try fame. That will make you
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happy. So I met entrepreneur magazine. If you go to my Instagram account, the fat picture there
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is me from entrepreneur magazine when I'm 23 is the first guy to sell anything over the internet.
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And I can tell you, I had 15 minutes of happiness from the magazine article. I had 15 minutes of
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happiness and a lot of misery from the money. And a bunch of other things, like you just
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realized none of it works. So by the time I'm 30, like I've made and lost more than most people
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ever make in their life. And I am freaking miserable. And it was only when my relationship at the time
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just fell apart. I got to do something. I'm a computer science guy. I'm actually a computer hacker.
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So I tried all this stuff that was supposed to work. None of it worked. So then I tried this
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stuff that only idiots would try. I went to Tibet and Nepal. And I studied shamanism. I did all
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this stuff that my family and my life taught me were worthless because I was desperate. And I
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I had already tried all this stuff. The reality is I finally committed to only doing things that work.
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Which means I'm going to measure. And I'm going to believe something works. And then I'm going to
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test it. And if it doesn't all change before I went to the gym six days a week, 90 minutes a day
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for 18 months on a low fat diet, I never lost an inch off my waist or a pound of weight. I probably
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lost some fat, gained some muscle, but I was still fat. And I could either say it's because I didn't
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try hard enough or because I had terrible advice. So this has led to so many of the businesses I'm
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running today, like upgrade labs. We're doing 187 million data points across people's minds and
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bodies. So don't just come in and think it's going to work. We'll show you it's working every time
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because it does. And this is why the basis for heavily meditated is 40 years of zen. This is my
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what we'll call it entrepreneur CEO brain upgrade program in Seattle. People come in. They have
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for 10 years more than a thousand high performing brains have taught me what's in heavily meditated.
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They come in, spend five days with my team of neuroscientists and facilitators and
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custom tech. And we show you what's going on in your brain, how triggers happen and how to go
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and edit them out. People spend 20 grand to do that. And it works. But if you read heavily meditated,
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I give away the process I use. It works better with the computers and all the other stuff, but you
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can do this at home. And even if you're just getting started, the end of the day someone got
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under your skin, they're controlling you. And you need to install a firewall in your consciousness
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so that you no longer have that vulnerability. And it's not about being tough and inflexible.
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Step one, if you have a company, hopefully you've done this. Someone says something that pisses
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you off or does something. And if you were a 10 year old, you'd get really mad and probably punch
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them. But you're a functioning adult. So you do what most people do.
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You smile, the fake smile, put on your game face. And everyone in the room knows that you're pissed,
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but you act like you're not. And well, okay, at least we have civil society. But
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everyone knows you're no longer in congruence. Your interstate and outer state don't match.
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And your customers can feel it, your team can feel it. And it comes across as well, you're probably
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a con artist, even if you're not, it just comes across that way. So learning how to actually have
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congruence is the only way to have authentic leadership, which means you own your own shit.
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And every single time something triggers me, I'm going to write it down and say, I wonder what
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that is. And then I'm going to run this reset process that's in the book. And I'm going to track
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it down. And I'm going to edit the vulnerability out of my settings. What do you mean vulnerability?
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Think of it like this. If you went to the therapist and you said, Hey, I have this problem focusing
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on my phone. All these alerts keep popping up all the time. This is all the time. And the therapist
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says, Oh, that's okay. Every time one of them pops up, just take a deep breath and gently swipe it
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to the side so you can focus on your work. You would fire that therapist. But if you go in there
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and say, I keep getting mad every time my girlfriend says this or my mother-in-law says that or my
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boss says this, it's the same thing. Turn off the alerts. Stop managing them. And the difference
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is incredible capacity. I think that this is one of the most useful tools for any high performing
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individual entrepreneur. Otherwise, like you mentioned before, like even people in jobs,
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you're not, you're not, you're not, you know, achieving peak performance. You're not getting the,
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you're not getting the promotion. If you can't manage and regulate yourself. When you,
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when you think about, this is one of the other ideas that you write about. I will talk about
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the reset process in a second. One of the ideas you write about just so people can understand
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and sort of we can go through some definitions or some some basics as to how the brain works. They
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can see what's happening here. Because you write about exploring pathways to inner peace and
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meditation. It's very crucial to understand the science behind your brain states. So can we talk
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about brain states because you, you mentioned that the brain is like this complex orchestra
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producing all these different types of brain ways. I don't think many people even understand
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how their own brain works. So what are the brain states that people should be aware of?
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For, and why do they matter for, for example, mental performance?
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If you're an entrepreneur, you want to be able to have energy and be focused all the time.
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So you could have the energy of running a sprint all day long. You think that would work?
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No, you'd burn out. No, it wouldn't work. So a lot of the times we get triggered. And it's not
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a big trigger, but you're just like irritable. That's a beta brain state. And beta brain states are
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great for performing well physically. They're not great for intuition and creativity and working
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in collaboration with the team. So you would want to know, how does it feel when I'm in a high
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beta state versus when I'm in an alpha state? And alpha has nothing to do with alpha males.
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And even alpha male was a complete myth from the guy who studied wolves and made a mistake.
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So when an alpha state is slower brain waves than a beta state, this is a relaxed and alert.
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A lot of meditation takes you there. And you can drop down from there into theta where we have
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dream states and day dreaming and more intuition and creativity and weird visions.
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And then delta is the dreamless deep state where your brain is refreshing itself. And you have
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a mix of all these all the time. So that makes it sound really easy. Well, I'll just dial my brain
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up or down. The reality is think of these as music notes. You have a C note or a D note or a G
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note or whatever. It's not about the note. It's what song are you playing in the note?
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So say, look, I manage to have alpha brain waves. I'm like, yes, and you're playing a Metallica
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song, right? Ride the lightning in alpha is probably not the brain that you want, right? So
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on one hand, knowing brain states is beautiful because we can measure those when people come in,
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we do a clinical grade scan on their brain. Like, oh, look, here's your likely behavior patterns
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based on your brain waves. By the way, these two parts of the brain, you know, the cello and the
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the drums, whatever they're not talking to each other, they're not playing the same notes.
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If you want, we can teach you how to align those. And here's what happens to your behaviors when
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those are aligned. And that's a pretty profound shift because otherwise, the brain doesn't know
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what's happening. In fact, the only nerve that goes inside the brain is the fifth cranial nerve.
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And that comes from your molars. Other than that, the brain is blind to itself. That's why you
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can see the Hannibal Lecter movie and it takes off the guy's brain and folks at it doesn't
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do anything. You can't feel your brain. So your brain doesn't know what it's doing. But if you ever
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see the mirror experiment where they hang a mirror up in the jungle and an ape walks up and looks
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like, oh, that's me. And it'll like find lettuce in its teeth or whatever they're eating, right? And
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that's amazing. Your brain is doing that. So when you do neurofeedback, you start learning how to
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control the states and the song that's playing. And the special thing about 40 years of Zen is we
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figured out a way to shift from one state to another in order to permanently turn off the source
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of a trigger. And it's very different than just maintaining your cool. That's a waste of time.
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So maintaining your cool is almost like you're trying to put a bandaid on this open wound where with
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40 years of Zen, with basically everything that you teach, you're talking about it's almost like
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a leading indicator of a trigger. You're stopping it before it even impacts you. That's what you're
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trying to do. It's more than just stopping it. You're permanently removing it from your reality.
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Wow. Right. So that way there's nothing to stop. It's kind of like you're in a boxing ring.
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Right. And I go, okay, I'm going to be tough. And, okay, do the rope a dope strategy. I'm just going
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to let him hit me. I'm going to pretend like it doesn't hurt. I'll take the hit and I'll be tough
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and I'll counterattack to that is not a good path. What you want is for him to hit you and it goes
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through you with no effect. Right. Yeah. Like what that's what's possible when you permanently
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remove this, the thing that just got under your skin, it doesn't matter. And the best example for
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this for a lot of a lot of just a lot of people in general, it's driving. Someone cuts you off
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in traffic. Everyone gets mad until they learn to do something about it. Right. And it's just this
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feeling. Well, if you're on the reset process on that feeling, there was some time earlier in your
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life where you felt disrespected and it really hurt your feelings. So your automated defense systems,
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which are based in the body, not even the mind. Oh, this matches that other situation.
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Therefore, it's a threat. Therefore, have some anger. And then you're going to make up a story
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about what's going on. The other guy said, like, you don't know if the guy's about to fill his
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pants. You don't know if you really thinks you're a jerk and he's cutting off and you don't
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know if he's on the way to the hospital to go, you know, deliver someone's baby. You just don't
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have any information at all. All the story you have is BS. If you could do something. So the next time
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someone cut you off, you just didn't care. You wouldn't make up a story. Your heart rate wouldn't
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change and you wouldn't remember it because it's irrelevant. And we want to live in that state.
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And that means if you're running your company and you get the phone call that anyone with any
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level of success has that some employee who you fired for doing something that was well-deserving
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of firing decides to sue you. Right. Because many employees, in fact, the lowest performing
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employees will almost always try to sue you. Because it couldn't be them, it must be you,
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right? And they're a little twisted reality. So that can really, really push buttons for people.
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And when you've run through your reset process on that, oh, look, it's happening. Okay, I got
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the attorney's handling it. Like, it's going to happen, but the amount of suffering and therefore
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the amount of wasted energy goes down. And that's what that's what just gives you resilience and
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business. And if you can manage to be unprogrammable, you get to choose your state and you can choose
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success. And if you're programmable, some asshole somewhere is going to program you when you're not
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software expires. That is V-A-N-T-A dot com slash Scott. There's in the book there's an eight step
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process for the reset process. We're not going to go through everything now, but
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before you even start that process, you speak about time traveling and going back in time and
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figuring out the root cause of the trigger. And I've always thought this is important because
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I think that trauma, whether or not the early childhood trauma or later trauma that happens because
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you experienced an event once and now it's imprinted in your brain and you can never forget it.
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And that's probably what is causing the negative response the next time you experience that.
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So before this process even starts, you're going back in time. This is I'm assuming what the time
24:04
travel portion of this process is. What is the guide for somebody to even sort of go down this
24:12
path and to start looking back and figuring out what was the thing that happened to them that's
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now eliciting this behavior 20 years later. That's what therapists charge you a lot of money for
24:25
and seem to never fix. So how are you doing it in like a very short period of time?
24:31
It's pretty incredible. You, instead of thinking about it and let's face it, if you're on a
24:37
business, you've probably spent a lot of time in your head thinking. All of the stuff we're dealing
24:40
with is pre-thinking. It's in the tissues is in the body. And I want to walk you through how the
24:46
body makes decisions that you're taking credit for all the time. But to answer your question
24:50
really directly, you're going to say, what does it feel like in my body? The hairs on the back
24:56
of the neck, my stomach, my jaw tension, and my sweating. And you turn on all the senses to feel
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what it feels like during that trigger. Because you can replay any emotion good or bad you've ever had
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like a Spotify playlist. Your body can do that. You just have to decide to try it like, oh, that's
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gross. I don't want to feel that. But you feel it anyway. And then you ask yourself the question,
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what was the first time I felt that way? And it doesn't matter if you get it right. Just whatever
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pops into your head is probably the first time. And that's how you know. And here's an example of
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this that I put in the book. I was on the Joe Rogan show three times. And more to the companies that
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Joe owns decided to copy the product set that I had. And the day that launched, Joe suddenly
25:40
came out and said, Dave Asprey is a bad man and a liar. And I'm like, funny how that works,
25:45
right? I'm like, I didn't do anything here. I mean, and it was it was pretty targeted. And to be
25:50
really honest, it, it really messed with my head. And that's on me. So for a few months there,
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I'm like, should I hire a crisis PR? Like this guy's just saying all these things about me. And
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again, my team, he was a convoy commander in Iraq. I mean, he drives around explosive stuff with
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generals in the car. So he's like, Dave, why are you so reactive to this? I don't know. So I sat down,
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did the reset process. What's the first time I've felt this way? And this thing popped into my mind.
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I had no memory of in first grade. Another kid did something he shouldn't have done. And I
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titled, I told the teacher, hey teacher teacher, you know, little Johnny did that. And she goes,
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little Johnny, did you do that? And he goes, I didn't do it. Dave did it. And then I got sent to
26:39
the principal's office for what someone else did. And this is injustice. Do you know what the biggest
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trigger is for entrepreneurs? It's injustice. I did the right thing. And then they punish me for it.
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And this is actually a childhood thing. If you think that you're going to make money or be rewarded
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for doing the right thing, you have a childlike view of the world. You got to learn to be a little
27:05
bit more grown up than that. Right? Doing the right thing is something that I choose to do. There are
27:11
times when I probably could make a lot more money by doing the wrong thing. I don't want to live like
27:14
that. So I don't. But there are people who will make the other choice. The other big trauma that
27:21
every one processes when they come to 40 years is then is even worse. And it's betrayal.
27:26
I trusted this person. I did the right thing and they intentionally harmed me.
27:33
When I give talks to entrepreneurs, I just did one three days ago in Phoenix, about a hundred
27:39
plus entrepreneurs. How many of us have had people steal money in a bezel? 90% of the hands go up.
27:47
That leaves a scar. How am I ever going to trust my employees again? And if you don't learn how to
27:52
reset that, betrayal and injustice, you learn to not let those get under your skin because people
28:00
will betray you. All that you can do for that is have better discernment, learn how to feel it
28:07
and have better processes so that your culture and your team can spot it before it becomes a problem.
28:14
And if you don't do that, it's no one's fault but yours. And I didn't do a great job with that.
28:20
I do a better job now. At least I think. And if I'm not, guess what's going to happen?
28:24
I'll get betrayed and I'll learn from it because that's how it works.
28:29
Listen, it's it's so true. It's so, so, so true. And the worst part is if you just push all this
28:36
stuff down, all the trauma, an employee sued you, an employee stole money from you or just
28:44
personal trauma, somebody cheated on you, somebody lied to you. If you just push it down and you
28:48
never deal with it or you deal with it in an ineffective way, it just builds up over time and
28:53
then it makes you this on the surface, a seemingly effective person that is just, you know, a moment
29:00
away from the wrong trigger to blow up their own life. And I think that that's what's so scary.
29:05
And you probably see the tons of entrepreneurs too and not entrepreneurs, just people that have
29:09
bottled up these traumas. It is so scary that if you haven't mapped out your emotional triggers,
29:16
you're not running your company, your past is. Like, imagine that, you're not in charge,
29:21
you just think you are. And let's walk through the main framework that has come up just in the
29:29
world of biohacking and the one that we teach people at 40 years of Zen. And it's that we like to,
29:37
we like to think that we see everything that's happening and we don't. And here's an example.
29:41
Cloud my hands. You know that it took so amount of time for the sound to get to you and then
29:46
you heard it, right? Because that's what you see. That's not true. So if we put electrodes on your
29:52
head and measure your brain waves, your auditory cortex won't hear the sound for a third of a second
29:57
after it hit your body. You mean there's some other force listening for a third of a second?
30:04
Yeah, there is. And that's a useful force. You ever lean on a hot stove accidentally?
30:10
Unfortunately, you've all done that. And of course, what we did is we noticed it was hot,
30:13
thought about it for a minute and said, yeah, I guess I should move my hand, right?
30:16
No, you jerk your hand away. And then you say, good thing I jerk my hand away.
30:21
That's a lie. Some other system that was not you pulled the hand away. It's provable. You'd
30:26
have time to move, but it moved. That system has a third of a second to fuck with your reality.
30:34
And it is based on a network, a distributed consciousness of ancient bacteria that
30:40
basically filters reality for you and decides based on the algorithm of all life on the planet,
30:47
what it's going to make you feel to manipulate how you behave.
30:52
And that sounds dark and I can prove all this. Here's the operating system for life. This applies
30:57
to slime molds and applies to politicians. There might be a relation there. It applies to humans
31:04
and single-celled organisms. Number one, if something is scary, run away from kill or hide.
31:12
It's fear. They're all F words, right? And you do this first, always.
31:17
Because if something eats you, there's no point of the rest of the operating system of life.
31:20
It has to come first. Fear will always come first. Even if you're the best meditator on the planet,
31:24
your body will watch out for real physical threats. It's just not very good at that because
31:29
single-celled organisms are stupider than hell and your behavior is based on single-celled organisms.
31:36
So fear, next thing, food, eat everything. Because famines are bad and these are dumb little bacteria
31:43
making sure they don't run out of energy and they're really scared of that. So fear then food,
31:49
the third F word, all life has to do it to stay around for multiple generations.
31:54
You know that one? Yes, I know that one too.
31:57
For tillies, the one you think it of. Of course, that was it. Exactly, that was it.
32:04
So, you don't know how many people I've checked into dropping NF bombs?
32:08
I was about to, but I was like, you know what? I know you. I know you. I know you're messing with me
32:13
somehow. Very good. That's my 12th grade sense of humor. Sorry, 12-year-old sense of humor.
32:19
So it's fertility, but that means that before you get a chance to see or hear anything,
32:27
your body looked at it and said, should I kill it? Can I eat it and should I hump it?
32:34
And only after it's made those judgments, is it going to get passed into your consciousness?
32:38
And it will get passed along with the flavor, along with the manipulation,
32:42
along with an emotion, unless you've done something to remove that.
32:46
I'm manipulation tied back to past lived experience. It will be tied back to, you know what?
32:51
I'm a dumb network of bacteria, but I'm really fast. And when that guy cut you off,
32:56
it had enough similarities to that time that, you know, Ms. Johnson in second grade did whatever
33:02
it was. It was some old thing that, so even that relevant, a dumb network of ancient bacteria
33:08
that runs your operating system, it's just doing pattern matching. And so you know that pattern
33:12
matched enough, that I'm going to make sure that you feel fear because it's better to feel fear
33:17
than to get eaten. Can you just a quick question on that? Can that same system pull patterns
33:24
from previous generations, or is it only your own lived experience? It can, right? It can.
33:28
And it gets really interesting there. I'm going to finish the other two F words and then let's
33:34
talk about that because it's one of the most important things for entrepreneurs to understand is the
33:39
nature of where your behavior programming comes from. So fear, food, fertility, the next one is
33:45
friend. All life on earth will form an ecosystem. You'll support your tribe. You'll support the
33:50
world around you and you do without thinking. So we're wired to be kind to each other in our
33:55
bones. As long as we're not inappropriately feeling threatened, and we're not malnourished,
34:00
and we're not lonely. And this is why we build healthy companies or unhealthy companies.
34:06
And the final F word is forgiveness. It's how you go in, and it's how you evolve as a humans
34:13
by letting things go. Forgiveness is not, by the way, saying something was okay, and it's not
34:18
telling someone you forgive them. It's just a matter of adjusting the programming inside your
34:23
tissues so that you don't have any more reactivity to something. And that's what creates power,
34:30
and it creates freedom. Because you imagine this, 30 pounds of air and some food every day combine
34:36
them, make electricity to run little environmental sensors and computers and manufacturing plants
34:43
called mitochondria. Well, they didn't get triggered by fear. So you have all this energy,
34:49
most of it's left. Okay, let's look at food. If you have cravings and you're hungry all the time,
34:56
you don't have to eat. Well, you're going to spend a lot of time on that. In fact, for the average
35:01
person, one third of their thoughts every day is about pizza. Or tacos, does that matter? That's why
35:08
it was epic is killing all the food noise, but you know, it's true. It was epic is probably, in fact,
35:13
not probably, ozempic at low doses is a longevity drug, but that's a different podcast probably.
35:18
So if you can silence that voice by training yourself to do intermittent fasting,
35:25
you saved yourself a lot of energy. So we can turn fear into peace. We can turn cravings into
35:31
nourishment. And then we get to the fertility thing. 20% of people report meeting God during
35:38
orgasm at least once in their life. So you can use conscious intimacy as a way of powering
35:47
yourself. And I, not the first guy to say that, you could talk to Napoleon Hill thinking Groveridge
35:52
has a whole chapter on this. You can talk to Montaccia, who I've interviewed as one of the leaders
35:56
in the field of studying Taoism and Tantra and just understanding, oh, you mean intimacy is the
36:04
form of power as well. It's one of the, it's creation energy. This is what makes companies
36:09
is libido, right? But not if it's all in porn and omifans. And then you go to the next one,
36:17
your community. If you have enough energy to put into your community, it will always support you
36:22
back, right? This is why we have all our masterminds. This is why people join a church group or a club
36:28
or you do all these things because it nourishes you. We need this in our in our cells.
36:35
If you do that stuff right, you have energy at the end of the day and you're going to do your
36:38
meditation practice or breath work or whatever it is that just makes you better person. And if you
36:43
don't understand this, you're triggered all the time. You eat junk food, you're hungry all the time.
36:48
He's filmed a little energy you have left looking at some kind of porn. And it's no wonder your
36:55
company is taking a shit. And it's because you wasted your energy everywhere, right? And your
37:02
company is a reflection of your energetic state. If you are chaotic and low energy, your company
37:08
will be chaotic low energy. If you get your stuff together, you remove the things that are not
37:14
serving you, you become present and your company starts to grow. And they're connected. You
37:21
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dot com slash Scott clary we will talk about meditation because I haven't even asked about that
41:37
yet but I need to understand what we were speaking about just briefly how the generational trauma
41:41
because someone's going to say for example I want to just you know lay out somebody listening to
41:46
this they're going to be you know what my life has been pretty good nothing really bad has happened
41:52
even though I'm sure you forget a lot of the bad shit that happened when you were a kid but say
41:55
for arguments take you're saying your life was pretty good let's talk about where trauma comes from
42:00
if not from growing up here's here's what happens someone will come in to 40 years in their
42:10
high performer and they'll do some of these resets and like you know what I work through all the
42:13
trauma and I still have stuff and they're going to go in one of three directions when they get
42:18
rid of the obvious stuff one of them is called pre and paranatal trauma the trauma that your mother
42:26
experienced when you were in the womb does leave a mark and we have almost 40 years of research
42:31
supporting that so traumatic birth and a traumatic gestation really makes a difference on your
42:39
psychology but if they didn't have issues there then it gets shamanic and there's a lot of
42:43
altered state stuff and heavily meditated and it's not that easy to write about that stuff
42:49
because a lot of people say that can't be there for it isn't which isn't pretty scientific
42:52
but this is what people do and it's reliable and it works some people are going to say I was doing
42:57
the meditation and I suddenly was speaking a language I don't know and I saw this stuff from some
43:02
other time but great why don't you run a reset on wherever that past life was right and I don't
43:08
care if it's a real past life or just a perceived one it left a mark let's erase the mark
43:14
right you still remember whatever was you just don't have an emotion associated right I don't
43:19
attach a value to whether people believe something or not and then the other thing is
43:24
generational trauma so sometimes people heal their lineage and gee my shamanic teachers
43:28
been talking about that forever of course people are going to do that when they start running this
43:32
reset process one of the most profound things that's happened with someone who's gone through 40
43:39
years as n is Miriam and I can talk about her name because she's public about this and people
43:44
who go it's confidential unless they talk about it but Miriam was conceived right after her parents
43:50
got out of a concentration camp that almost killed them and she's older and she said I've been
43:58
searching my entire life for peace and I have never felt it until right now
44:05
so in their 80s that's the power of generational trauma you carry it with you and there's evidence
44:12
for this if your parents went through a famine in world war two your chances of having typed
44:18
you diabetes are substantially higher and it only makes sense maybe there's a genetic component
44:24
and I know a lot of people are starting to argue that there's also a could be an energetic
44:30
could be quantum or just a learned behavior because if your parents learn to pattern and it's an
44:37
unconscious pattern it's their triggers they're going to give it to you when you're young right
44:42
because they got it from their parents you got it from their parents who got it from their parents
44:45
and let's face it most of history in humanity has been pretty dark so someone got traumatized
44:51
now their kids are and it's going to keep getting passed down it'll get passed into your company
44:56
it'll get passed into your kids unless you stop it and it gets really sketchy because when you're
45:03
the top executive in your company if you're a man traumatized employees are going to bring their
45:12
daddy issues to you and if you're a woman they're mommy issues and if you're an experienced leader
45:17
you'll see this someone gets triggered they stop acting like an adult they start acting like
45:21
their ten or twelve or seven or whatever the age of the trauma is and they don't know they're
45:25
doing it right they become defensive they'll lie they'll just like what is going on here well one
45:32
thing is oh I'm slow mad the other one is I have a lot of compassion because I understand where
45:37
this is coming from this is a flawed human being and I'm going to sit them down and I'm going to
45:43
have a conversation with them and in that conversation I'm going to discover what category of
45:47
person they are and I write about the categories in heavily meditated because they're so important
45:55
a spiritual teacher named Dr. Barry Tothi's to me and he learned them from Lao Tzu's direct
46:01
oral lineage this is basically the Buddha of China on the roots of Shaolin this is part of
46:06
the training for categories of people category one people are win-win all the time they do something
46:13
they're gonna make money you're gonna make money category two people they're win-win most of the time
46:17
but they screw up and if they do something and win and you lose and you call them on it they'll
46:22
apologize make it right those are the only two kinds of employees you ever want to have category
46:26
three employees for them to win someone else has to lose but they don't know it they believe
46:34
their own BS so a story I never fail okay that means they will be unable to see themselves failing
46:43
and if someone points out their failure they will unconsciously try to destroy that person
46:49
because that person cannot exist for their story to be real these are really dangerous people
46:53
category three people are also known as narcissists I was gonna say it sounds like a narcissist
46:58
I had one of those in one of my businesses you can guess which one every single week
47:05
reporting to me in the board we're on track to lose a couple million bucks and grow at a large rate
47:09
at the end of the year you know we might lose five million instead of four million December first
47:15
okay that's not good but at least we're growing December 31st oopsy I lost 28 million dollars
47:24
and I'm like what all the board meetings all the financial reports so when we fired this employee
47:33
for burning through three years of intercapital she says you should give me more stock options
47:40
and I'm like why wow the delusion absolutely but this is a category person I know that that person
47:49
did not didn't have the capacity to see what she was doing even though she had great credentials
47:55
and all that because she was blinded to it because she was a category three I win lose person
48:00
and it was very very weird anyone has dealt with a narcissist understands like you start to question
48:06
your reality right and to this day that person is out interviewing and the story is that I wasn't
48:14
at the company when it happened and I don't think that person is lying I think that person has
48:20
rewritten history to make themselves not fail isn't that weird but what this means
48:27
everything wait what is what is category four then if that's that's a narcissist I don't even
48:32
don't know there's one level one level worse I've dealt with two of them in my life
48:37
um they are sociopaths sociopaths are win lose and they know it and they're playing you and
48:45
they're master manipulators and the thing with the narcissist is there's defenses and once you
48:52
once you realize what's going on if you don't give them any positive or negative energy they
48:57
can't survive and they'll go stick to someone else and they'll leave you alone you might have to
49:01
whatever but a sociopath they will intentionally and consciously try to destroy you
49:09
and this is the world of business and if you started your business and you're a normal category
49:16
two person you're going to think the whole world is win win because you're striving to be that
49:21
and you're going to think people are like you and I was one of those and I got the lesson
49:26
there are people who will look you in the eye and they will lie and they will work to make sure
49:33
that you lose even if they also lose because they cannot stand it if you win and I was removed
49:43
from the board at bulletproof the company was sold for less than 10% of the value of when I was
49:49
removed and how could that have happened this kind of dynamic had just had to be a play right and
50:00
I write about this with as much details I can without you violating confidentiality and things
50:04
like that but I've seen it and if you learn the reset process you learned to not carry it with you
50:13
so I could have easily been broken by that stuff Scott a thousand percent I think most people might
50:20
have been yeah it was it was rough at the same time I guess because well the best entrepreneurs are
50:29
really good at suffering according to Elon I think he's right about that his quote about staring
50:34
into the abyss and eating glass is what makes you good executive I also decided to do a conscious
50:40
uncoupling that's Austin speak for getting divorced and right prior to all this I had a family
50:48
member tried to steal one of my other companies out from underneath me all at the same time
50:54
and man that was a lot and I sat down and I did exactly what's in this book that reset process
50:59
because otherwise I would have broken so I want people to have this and that's why you've come to
51:06
40 years is then like my whole team we will dial your brain in or just read the book
51:11
understand that it's not you choosing to do these things it is an automated system to keep
51:17
your hardware alive that's giving all these feelings and you can imagine everything on earth
51:26
it's a giant fluffy Labrador retriever okay it comes in the door it eats your shoe
51:32
piece on the couch humps your leg goes into the kitchen and ransacks everything that's your
51:39
operating system that's what an untrained nervous system will do and it's there for a reason
51:45
to make sure the species reproduces to make sure you don't starve to death and make sure nothing
51:48
eats you you can also take that same dog and turn it into service dog takes six months or
51:54
a year and now it'll sit there do what it's told with a piece of pepperoni on its nose until
51:58
you tell it it can eat the snack hey you get to run your company with one of those two operating
52:03
systems and the whole point of heavily meditated is that you don't have 20 years to learn all this crap
52:08
nobody does in the world we have today so learn it quickly and you may not even like the reset
52:15
process that's in the book I go through all of the different techniques and technologies in order
52:20
to enter the altered state that lets you turn off the alerts on your phone that's in your operating
52:25
system you do that and everything gets easier in your life and it's the highest leverage is to turn
52:31
off fear the second highest is to turn off food the third highest is something I cover in the book
52:37
as well and that is to learn how to harness what's called sexual energy to become life force
52:44
creation energy and this is a longstanding technique so I write about those why are psychedelics
52:51
special and in altered state in the bedroom is not they're both gateways to the same states you
52:57
could also access from breathwork or from meditating in a cave for a while you get to pick the path
53:02
but you need to figure out how to get there I need to just touch on meditation because it's
53:07
in the title but explain to me how you look at meditation for somebody that just does it
53:13
casually what is the different interpretation of meditation because you've included
53:19
if I go through the list of various religions and practices like you bring in things from
53:24
Buddhism from Christianity you bring in things from all over the world so your version of meditation
53:30
and I'm assuming that is a gateway to the altered state is a little bit different than probably what
53:36
most people consider meditation to be so talk to me about optimal meditation through ancient wisdom
53:43
modern science for peak performance you might hear someone say it's really important to learn how to
53:49
cook like well doesn't it matter what you're cooking it's the same with meditation so what is the
53:56
goal of meditation you might want to choose the meditation or the meditation replacement based on
54:03
the desired outcome so you have your return on ad spend I put a dollar in I get four bucks back
54:11
or more it's great if I put a minute of meditation in how much do I get out of it right and
54:18
are you measuring dollars are you measuring something else well with meditation you're measuring did
54:23
I get into the desired state let's say you want to have a really good brainstorming session with
54:28
your team and you want to go into that creative state instead of like getting stuff done state
54:32
you would do a meditation or a breath work or run electricity over your brain or take a bump of
54:37
whatever I don't care you're gonna do that to get into the state you desire and the most
54:44
precious states are the states where you're blasting off into outer state feeling in outer space you're
54:50
feeling connected with with everything connected with your partner connected with your team
54:57
they're just very different goals so when it comes to something like breath work which is
55:01
provably faster there's three buckets that I mentioned in the book the first bucket is I am
55:08
feeling tweaked and stressed I need to get my energy back and get aligned right now okay that's
55:13
the military knows this stuff it's a box breath you know four seconds per side or you want to go
55:18
a little faster make your out breath twice as long as you're in breath so you would breathe in for
55:23
for breathe out for eight that will shift your state very reliably so if your goal was to chill
55:32
that's what you'd want to do I did that before I go on stage every single time okay yeah I do
55:37
you know I love it then there's another one which is something that's more akin to what I would do
55:42
before I go on stage which is about dropping yourself into a relaxed aware state versus turning off
55:48
stress and when you do that instead of instead of we'll say grounding in what you do is you're
55:57
expanding and calming so you walk in with a big presence but not a big you know all over the
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place where I suppose it's a big felt presence and this is more like what you would do if you were
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going to have that brainstorming thing or a really productive meeting where you had a place of
56:11
peace and you're aware but not fired up right and then there's another set of breath work which is
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the stuff that replaces taking LSD and I write about my experiences with Stan Groff who treated
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3,000 people with LSD as a physician in the 1950s who invented a kind of breath work along with his
56:31
wife when LSD became illegal so god which of those ones do you want to do or here's another one of my
56:39
my favorite techniques and this is new in the world of biohacking it's not even a meditation but
56:44
it's a practice that works really well for entrepreneurs and it's called bicep and it's not this
56:51
bicep it's brief intentional conscious exposure to pain the last thing that I think would be
56:57
interesting because you you write about this and I'm curious I'm curious why you think this is an
57:02
important idea for a high performing individual you write about Cantra and you write about you write
57:08
about intimacy why because if somebody reads this book they're going to be okay like everything
57:14
else makes perfect sense I get it I want to be able to perform I want to be in a meeting I want
57:18
to be able to let go of the of the anger that is associated with the employee that suits me
57:24
why does sex cross the far in the pond corporate veil and and start to become this important
57:31
idea for entrepreneurs to understand entrepreneurship is a community effort you are an entrepreneur to
57:38
make something that the world needs or to do something the world needs the way your body processes
57:44
reality is is it scary can I eat it and can I fuck it okay if you don't feed those parts of your
57:55
operating system so that you feel peace you feel nourishment and you feel that intimate connection
58:03
your body will derail you and you'll be the kind of founder who sleeps with your assistant
58:08
and it'll be the kind of founder who spends all of your money on hookers and blow and I've seen
58:14
this so many times and you'll be the kind of founder who leaves chaos in your personal relationships
58:20
and guess what happens to your business when your marriage fails
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we all know not good not good not good and it's it happens because this is
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it relationships are as important as eating for adults your system needs that and if you don't
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prioritize that the same way you prioritize a bit or the amount of cash in the bank you want to
58:48
have a bankrupt unhappy relationship at home so your business can grow it doesn't work you'll do
58:52
that for a few years and then you won't have a relationship you'll only have half your company if
58:58
you're lucky and your company will be much smaller because you were emotionally taken out now
59:05
this happens over and over and I know this because this is how it has to work given the way
59:10
our unconscious mind and our body works but it gets even more interesting because I am dating a
59:16
relationship coach and we do hot seats hot seat masterminds for entrepreneurs just about
59:24
relationships not about marketing or business operations and couples and singles come and we work
59:29
with Annie Lala and Rod Harrison a bunch of others and we do coaching in in front of a small group
59:35
and then you go oh my gosh these guys work together and this is how they do it these these guys don't
59:40
work together but it turns out you're not alone and the data shows that the single factor that
59:47
determines whether your relationship will last is whether you have a community that supports your
59:52
relationship it's more than anything else so you might as well put at least as much energy into
59:58
maintaining your relationships and deepening your intimacy as you do grow in your business
1:00:06
because you will keep your business and your business will grow much faster when you have
1:00:11
you're you're vibing with that creative energy that is the same thing you used to create a baby even
1:00:16
if you're not looking to do that that's what creates businesses in the east they call it life force
1:00:21
energy or Chi and if your home relationship is depleted your Chi will be depleted so you pay so
1:00:28
much attention to what goes on your plate and whether you're doing your red light in the morning
1:00:32
but if you're not practicing intimacy as a source of power and nourishment you're missing out on
1:00:40
a massive massive energy source and a massive way to enter altered states some of the most sacred
1:00:46
altered states come from Tantra or even I interview an expert for the book Kim Yunch she's an
1:00:53
excellent conscious kink and what is that she's a somatic therapist and she's like you know I work
1:01:01
with a lot of people including entrepreneurs and it turns out some of my clients in order to really
1:01:06
feel it like they needed to be kind of restrained so I started doing that with clients and you this
1:01:11
this is this is my path now I'm a professional dominatrix who was a somatic therapist but it's healing
1:01:17
an altered states work it's not it's not about the sex she's not sex with with her clients she's
1:01:23
leading them on a guided journey that is no different than a psychedelic journey it's just accessing
1:01:29
the senses through the body the same reason the monks are flogging themselves it's just another
1:01:34
gateway in given the number of entrepreneurs who are unnerished in their intimate relationships
1:01:40
because they don't get what they need it creates so much pain and suffering and it breaks companies
1:01:46
and it causes massive lawsuits when you just can't stand it anymore it's so funny you take someone
1:01:52
who's dieting you put a plate of cookies in front of them and half the time they're I just
1:01:56
ate half the cookie I just had to you know I said it wasn't you put a bunch of women in short
1:02:02
skirts in front of a man who's a good man who is just completely malnourished that way and he's
1:02:10
going to fight with all of his willpower and eventually he might eat half the cookie and it'll ruin
1:02:15
his life right and that's not an okay thing to do so can we talk about this can we talk about
1:02:22
that this is as important for men and women in different ways as food and then we can treat it
1:02:28
as something that we respect and then if you met God during a really good orgasm great was it good
1:02:34
for you did it nurse you did it make you feel grounded it make you feel connected great you'll
1:02:38
be a better entrepreneur and then you can do it Napoleon Hill talks about it and think and grow rich
1:02:43
he talks about sublimating that energy and I have taught so many young men
1:02:49
here's how to space out your ejaculations so that you don't lose your energy this is an
1:02:55
ancient longevity practice and it turns out every time a guy ejaculates testosterone drops and
1:03:02
prolactin goes up when testosterone drops dopamine drops when prolactin goes up dopamine drops
1:03:08
and that will you respect me in the morning thing actually no because you have no testosterone
1:03:15
you have no dopamine your prolactin side your apathetic so if you're masturbating all the time
1:03:22
or you're ejaculating all the time with your partner it is very likely depleting you and
1:03:27
probably harming your business so this is a call to be aware that this is part of your performance
1:03:32
stack you can have sex and not ejaculate and if you learn how to do that you'll have a lot more
1:03:37
sex you'll become more successful your partner will become happier this only works for men by the
1:03:43
way women do not have that problem so if you're a woman who can ejaculate go for it but it's
1:03:51
it's something for guys if you're if the goal of your lovemaking is no longer getting yourself to
1:03:57
completion you're gonna have a lot more fun your partner's gonna have a lot more fun and when
1:04:00
you're done you'll be so incredibly supercharged and I've the young men have said Dave I thought
1:04:06
you were full of crap I tried it for 30 days and I got a 30 thousand dollar raise I started two
1:04:13
companies I finally got off my ass and I did the thing I wanted to do it's because their testosterone
1:04:18
went up and stayed up which made their dopamine go up and maybe they got in a cold plunge which was
1:04:23
their brief intentional conscious exposure to pain and all of a sudden they stepped into their power
1:04:29
this is how it works so how can I right heavily meditated without talking about what one third of
1:04:34
your thoughts every day are about boobs if you're a guy and I don't know what women think about but
1:04:38
probably something similar right it does depend on which time of the month by the way they're
1:04:42
women are more complex that way but seriously all humans when our hormones are healthy we will
1:04:48
spend a huge amount of our energy and thoughts on that why don't we treat it as a sacred nourishing
1:04:53
thing instead of something dirty if you wanted somebody who reads this to just take away one
1:05:01
message the most important message and they understood nothing else what would that message be
1:05:08
and why everything you've ever done that you're ashamed of wasn't you it was an ancient network
1:05:17
of bacteria conspiring to keep you alive so you can stop feeling shame about it and start doing
1:05:24
something about it where should people go to connect with you I'm assuming this is gonna give
1:05:30
me give me the links in the website and there's a link there on the homepage that'll take you
1:05:38
to all the bonuses for heavily meditated if you pre-order the book you order it right now
1:05:43
you get a hundred ninety nine dollar course from commune about biohacking so that way more than
1:05:49
pays for the book and there's about seven hundred fifty dollars in bonuses and discounts that
1:05:53
things available and look I'd love for you to come to forty years of zen and not everyone's
1:05:58
gonna do that people feel called it's expensive and it's the most valuable thing I've ever done
1:06:03
for myself in fact that's why I built the company was to reprogram my own brain even if you never
1:06:08
decide to go read the book sit down you have a couple hours of run the reset process on the things
1:06:14
that really piss you off if you do this it'll change everything you do and when you buy the book now
1:06:23
I will invite you to a webinar where I teach you how to do it I love it I love it okay is there
1:06:30
anything else you wanted to go into we should also just touch on psychedelics so we talk about sex
1:06:35
and we talk about things like food is a very small part of the book and this understanding of your
1:06:40
mental frameworks and breath work and all that so many people are using psychedelics and you can
1:06:48
use them as a way to enter some of these altered states and there's no good or bad about it
1:06:53
but there is an order of operations if you're new to this and you're considering it and the reason
1:06:58
I wrote that chapter as I've done shamanic training I've traveled over the world I've done the great
1:07:03
majority of the psychedelics and we use them as an option at forty years of zen the world first
1:07:07
psychedelic assisted neurofibic program so wow they could be valuable but I see people usually
1:07:16
using ayahuasca and sometimes mushrooms to target wealthy and successful people and I would suggest
1:07:23
that you should start with lower risk higher reward psychedelics on your journey and don't be one
1:07:29
of those guys and we've all heard them the ayahuasca bros dude I've done eighty seven ayahu journeys
1:07:37
I do them between my kettlebells and you know I used to be an MMA fighter and now I'm going to be
1:07:41
saved something dude eighty seven times when you're going to notice it's not working
1:07:47
and so I would say if you decide to do one of the ancient medicines like that go to the jungle
1:07:53
do it with a real shaman because there's more risk there than people realize and the safer ones
1:08:01
well ketamine has been around for 70 years and you can do it in a therapist's office
1:08:06
and that is very well understood using ketamine at parties bad addictive using it for therapy
1:08:12
amazing it regrows your brain MDMA on occasional use relatively safe and very effective for trauma
1:08:22
mushrooms reasonably safe effective for trauma and I don't think things like heroin or cocaine
1:08:29
those are hard drugs but they're not psychedelics I don't include them in the list and it gets a
1:08:33
little bit sketchy I mean you can do DMT DMT can be profound and it's different than doing ayahu
1:08:40
and ibogaine is one that should be near the end of your list ibogaine is medically risky I
1:08:46
am planning to do that but I'll do it with a cardiac monitor and a doctor nearby because sometimes
1:08:51
your heart rate gets a little bit high so just understand start with the foot in the water don't
1:08:58
just find some ayah bro who's gonna walk you through those people cannot hold space the way
1:09:04
they need to the role of a shaman is to act as a firewall to keep malware out of your brain and there
1:09:10
are people those narcissists that we talked about earlier they will target you with psychedelics so
1:09:16
be careful if your high visibility or your high wealth there are people who really really really
1:09:21
want you to do drugs with them and it's not for your best interest and there are people who really
1:09:25
really want you to do drugs with them because they're going to help you heal you're determined
1:09:29
better be good if you're going to go down that path especially with drugs towards the end of the
1:09:33
list what about LSD about LSD I actually like Elsa I go to Burning Man so I don't have an
1:09:40
issue with it I did a podcast and then a breathwork workshop with Stan Groff who's the guy who created
1:09:48
trans personal psychology so all the EMDR all the breathwork it all came out of his work
1:09:52
he treated three thousand patients with LSD in Czechoslovakia in the 1950s when it was still called that
1:09:59
and it created a whole new branch of psychology and psychiatry so there is value for LSD and it's very
1:10:09
hard to get addicted to psychedelics it is possible to get addicted to ketamine because it's not
1:10:15
really a psychedelic we just talk about it that way it's a dissociative so I would say you're
1:10:20
unlikely to get addicted to LSD and occasional use with integration and journaling relatively safe
1:10:27
you might want to try mushrooms first but it can be a beautiful experience but ultimately all of
1:10:32
these all of these psychedelics they can what expedite improve the the whole reset process they
1:10:41
can they can complement it like is it possible to do it without I'm assuming yes but what value do
1:10:46
they add you know during the reset process most psychedelics aren't going to be helpful they're
1:10:51
gonna create profound awareness and sometimes you may experience forgiveness but it tends to be random
1:10:58
right so having awareness and having the felt sense of an altered state can be really powerful
1:11:04
and look if you go to an event once a month and you do a psychedelic journey of whatever works or
1:11:09
you do a breathwork workshop it's like taking a mental shower it just lets you see the world as
1:11:14
connected to everyone with more gratitude and that's really the role of a lot of psychedelics
1:11:20
depending on which ones a lot of people want to agree with everything I'm saying here if this is a
1:11:23
generalization feeling a sense of awe and gratitude and connectedness is really really grounding
1:11:31
and beneficial for people and it's in the middle of the reset process you cannot heal from a trauma
1:11:37
unless you know how to feel gratitude or awe and psychedelics can reconnect you to that experience
1:11:43
which is a necessary ingredient for forgiveness but they won't cause forgiveness