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Business Management for Financial Planners - Lucy Byrom · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Hello everyone, it's Elena back for this week's episode of the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: And this week I'm joined by Lucy Byrum, Director of Fusion Business Management.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: Within this episode, we discussed what is a business manager and how that role can add value to financial planning firms.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: What sparked the idea for Lucy to start her own business and how she managed that process with young children.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: We tackle how to go through your first year of running a business, how to tackle those moments of doubt and upskill yourself, and also why Lucy is passionate about encouraging more young people into the industry.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: Hello everyone, it's Elena back for this week's episode of the Financial Planner Live podcast.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: And this week I'm joined by Lucy Byrum, who is the director of Fusion Business Management.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Good morning, Lucy.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: How are you?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: Good morning, I think thanks.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_05: How are you?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very well, thanks for asking.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a question that I always like to start with.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: Could you please tell me a little bit about your career journey to date?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of fell into the industry as everyone seems to, but it was at the age of 16.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I literally came fresh out of school, didn't really know what I wanted to do, but I really wanted to kind of just get started in work, basically.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: And apprenticeships were really like everyone really wanted you to go on one at the time.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, like they re-pressed on uni, but then suddenly apprenticeships were this thing that everyone said that it was a good idea when you could kind of get education whilst also working.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that really interested me in the beginning.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I was basically looking at loads of options as to what I could do.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this one happened to be 10 minutes down the road from me.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So at the at the start it was like convenience, it was also very much around kind of like you're on a computer, you're talking to people on the phone.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was very much like basic skills that I knew that I liked, but I'd obviously never used it in a professional environment before.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I was kind of thrown in the deep end at you know, starting work at 16, but hugely just I'm so glad that I did it.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think if I went to university, then I still would have been in the same position at the age of like 21 than I was at the age of 16.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So absolutely no regrets in terms of that.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so I went straight into the industry at 16 as an apprentice administrator, and kind of got to know the ropes, had a few people leave, had a few people come on.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was a crazy, crazy time.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then I kind of worked my way up to do power planning work, started the lovely exams that everyone does.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I hated them, I detested them.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um when I did like retake after retake, I just thought this isn't for me.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I really didn't want to leave the industry.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we had a not a tough conversation, but we had a conversation as to kind of like, well, how can I fit in this firm that's not relating to clients?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because this was six years ago now, probably, when you know, client-facing roles were the 99% of every single firm.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't really roles that weren't directly linked to clients.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: But we kind of had the conversation to say, right, I love reviewing what we're currently doing, I love taking a step back and thinking about business.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um I kind of sat in on a few board meetings, I was kind of very close to the director to say, where should we drive the business?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: You want to get here, right?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it together, kind of thing.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the decision to make to kind of make me an office manager.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the role can be called probably 10 different things.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: People call it a practice manager, an office manager, business manager, you know, but it's all in effect is the same thing.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of the decision that was made, um, which I'm very grateful it was made because obviously it's where it got me to where I am today.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of what happened when I was kind of two, three years into my career in the industry.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then after that, I'd kind of I went through some courses.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we worked with um Standards International to kind of review the business as a whole, um, which gained my experience tenfold because we was on a course with like 15 other firms that were kind of in the similar boat to we were, reviewed all systems, processes, team, you name it.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: We took the bonnet off and went straight in to see what we could do to improve it.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that was really, really good.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then lockdown, good old lockdown came.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, God, feels like a lifetime ago, doesn't it, nowadays, but it really isn't.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know it felt, yeah, which is crazy.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: So this was only what 2019, round about then.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I fell pregnant at the end of 2019.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I had my child back in the middle of lockdown in May 2020, which was all time engaged.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: By the beginning, really, of everything as well.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: When everything was just shut down, no one was allowed in hospital, like it was just that was a crazy time in itself.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so then yeah, had my child during lockdown, returned back to work in January 21.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that was still in the midst of office working, homeworking, trying to work out what flexible was, trying to work out what being a mum was, trying to find my feet with everything basically as I'm sure a lot of parents can, you know, appreciate.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then I just made the decision as a family to kind of say, right, the the working kind of environment that I would like for me and my family just wouldn't suit an employee position.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's not fair on an employer, and it's not fair on you know, to join a new firm to expect anything.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I made the decision to launch my firm in September 21.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's only been going for what just over a year now, but as you can appreciate, it's a bit of absolute whirlwind.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, the best decision I could have made, really.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that sounds so exciting.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then I guess if we draw it back to, you know, we'll run into a little bit more um information on the business, like what you do and how that journey's been for you.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: But if we talk about being a business manager or a practice manager per se, ultimately there's a couple of different terms for it.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: It itself is something that's a bit subjective.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: So do you mind sort of shining a light on the role and you know what that it can encompass?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think when every business owner starts out, they tend to be an IFA at a firm.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: They then think I can do this by myself.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: So they then launch their own IFA business.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're then being an IFA or financial planner whilst also trying to be a business owner, which then involves them wearing about 10 different hats, trying to focus on 10 different things at a time.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: And they think, well, I've always done it.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've worked hard to get this business to where it is today.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Why should I give it to someone else?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, I've I've just always done it.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: They take for granted that it's just second nature to them to do it.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas in effect, they're then realizing that their focus on what should have been on clients and progress in the business gets hugely taken over by things such as marketing and finance and compliance and the regulator and all this fun stuff that they never had to deal with when they were running their own when they weren't running their own business.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: But basically, the person that does that role is very much there to help run the business in the background, make things more efficient, basically help the business owner focus on the clients, yeah, and they run the things in the background.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So they'll help with the team and they'll help make sure that everyone's actually okay and that things are running as they should be.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: If a query comes in from a marketing consultant, it just gets dealt with and they don't even have to worry about it.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's basically everything that a business owner does for the business, in theory, a practice manager can take the majority of it on.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it's almost like the glue for a company, isn't it?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, brings all the different departments together and I guess ensures just like the smooth running of the business.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: You've you've described it perfectly.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I think something that you mentioned before, um, I'd like to shine a bit more of a line because I think it's really interesting because um there is definitely nowadays um lots of different careers within financial planning as a profession that isn't solely an advisor.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I think one thing that you touched on previously and that's really interesting is the fact that you did the power planning, you know, you tried to sit your exams and it just wasn't for you.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: And exams aren't for everyone.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I've not done the sat the you know level four diploma, but I can appreciate that there's going to be loads of technical stuff on there.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I've heard that the exams themselves can sometimes almost be designed to sort of like catch you out.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: So it is a really difficult process.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and as much as you have to have the level four diploma to be an advisor, and it's becoming a bit more industry standard to have it as a power planner, you know, as you've proven, it doesn't mean that you have to be, you know, you need it to be successful within the industry.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: So, what would you say to people that might be watching that are starting their exam journey, are struggling, or people that just don't have the time to sit exams but want to continue within the profession?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: I guess, yeah, yeah, you're completely right.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think when you join the industry and when you're around people that have hard grafted to get to their exams, their mindset is very much, well, I've done it.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So to prove your work with the industry, you need to be as qualified as I am.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I've had to do it, I've had to spend time away for my family to get qualified, so you should be doing it as well.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas that mindset I don't think is right.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like you say, there is definitely jobs where you have to have your exams.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think paragraph should be qualified, I think employers should be qualified.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you work in compliance, you probably need to be qualified because obviously you need to be up to date with everything else.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I would just say, if is there a reason you're doing your exams, or is it just because it's expected of you?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because there is this stigma in the industry where being a financial planner is the be all and end all, and yeah, that's the top of the tree, and you have to plan to get there.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you've made it there, you've done it.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whereas, in my opinion, there's so many different roles in this industry where you you're not an advisor, but you're still such an integral part of a firm and you don't need exams to do so.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I definitely think exams are a big part of the industry, and keeping your knowledge up to date is obviously huge.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you want a certificate is definitely not as proven as a 10 a per um an administrator that's been in the industry for 10 years and seen it, spoken to clients the whole time, they're really good at speaking on the phone, they're really good at writing letters, communicating via email.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're not going to touch research, they're not going to touch recommendation, they're not going to look at a suitability report.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, why do you need to know the ins and outs of a pension when you're really good at just picking up the phone and just speaking to people?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Ultimately, it's that skills, isn't it?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: That um able to build long-lasting relationships, you know, that ability to be confident picking up the phone and speaking to a client, because that in itself is for some individuals quite a daunting prospect to speak to someone that you've not spoken to before.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess in your position, you know, what qualities do you think make a really good business manager?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think you have to kind of be, and this comes with experience, but you have to be good at dealing with different types of people, um, especially when you're kind of sitting in someone's one-to-one or you're telling someone in their probation meeting it has to be extended, for example.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's different ways of approaching that with different kinds of people.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you don't want to be going in full force and making someone cry, for example.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: But some people might need it more tougher than others in terms of they just don't understand a certain way of saying it, so you have to approach it in a different way.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just kind of different people skills is crucial.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's the same with any role in the industry.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: You could be dealing with an elderly woman, or you could be dealing with a startup business owner that's really young and you know needs a little bit more handholding.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just kind of like differentiating between different people and just kind of being mindful that you are still learning, you still need to gain experience, you don't know everything, but you're there to like hold their hand and you're there to hold them accountable for certain things.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just I think the stigma with a practice manager as well is that maybe they should just know everything and they should come into a firm and wave their magic wand because they'll make the business amazing.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there needs to be a little bit of a collaborative approach to how to get there, for example.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of skills that you can work together with people and you can gain, give your opinion, but also listen back.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, that's a really good point.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we should look at it this way as well.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So just kind of being open and mindful to just your way might not always be the best way, but you work together to get to the right place.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: I guess that's really an interesting point because I think almost an office manager um could assume that if they're coming in and sorting out all of the processes within the business, they know the best way to do that.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: But as you mentioned, I'm sure it's definitely a very collaborative role when you're managing a group of people, you've got to take what the people are saying on board and really listen to that element of things as well.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hugely.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think also you're coming into a firm or you're working with a firm with people that do this job day in, day out, they speak to the clients, they know the processes, they use the systems.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: So to then go in and say, right, the system's changing, we're doing it this way.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen it work better in other firms to do it this way.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't know that's the right thing for that firm, those clients, those people.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: You honestly don't.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you're not going to take on board what the people are saying that are doing it day in, day out, you've lost completely because you've lost trust, you've lost your openness, they're not going to be able to come to you for stuff anymore.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: You just need to have that collaborative approach with not only the business owner, but I think having a relationship with the whole team as well is absolutely crucial to be able to make an impact.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: So then when you started fusion business management, you mentioned that ultimately, you know, um when you had your child and then going back to work, you know, it didn't offer sort of the flexibility.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: So did this sort of like spark the idea for fusion business management?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would definitely say it did.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'd always been in a mindset of, you know, I think a lot of people are maybe I'm wrong, but one day I'll own a business and one day I'll work for myself and be my own boss.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely always kind of bubbling in the back of my head.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think having a baby changes your perspective on the whole world, genuinely does, and you just want everything, you want to do the best for that child.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and your mind's mindset just changes perspective 360, and everything that was important then means nothing now.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And what we want to do is, you know, work forward and be the best for them.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's very much just making sure that I was in the right mindset, the right environment, the right headspace to be able to be the best mum I could be.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And to do that, it was very much kind of sounds really dramatic.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Not starting my own business, you know, enabled that, but I think it just allowed me to focus on what I needed to focus on at the right time.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Come into the office, the hours I wanted to and needed to.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: I could then shut the door, go away and be a mum when I needed to.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And there wasn't anyone I needed to ring to check that was okay, you know, because it's me.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just that kind of enabled me to live the lifestyle that I needed to live as a young mum.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I think one thing that's really interesting as well is you definitely hear about like outsource power planning firms and outsource administrative firms that deal with, you know, power planning cases and things like that.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: But I'd never heard of a firm that did sort of outsource like business management, like practice management.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: So did you personally notice sort of a gap in the market for this?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess, like you say, the admin power planning outsource is very popular.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, practice managers weren't necessarily even a popular role in a firm.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So having it outsourced was a completely different ball game, and it was something that I kind of went into thinking this could either be great or it could flop.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't go into it naive and thinking this is going to be a million-pound business.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: I genuinely went into it thinking this is the role that I love and enjoy doing.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm putting in the perimeters for me to work flexibly as to how I want to work.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see if it works or not.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just kind of went with it and was like, if it doesn't work, I'll have to find a job and you know I'll have to mold my way around and do something else.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: But this thing like the perfect opportunity for me to just run with it and see what happens.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and now a year down the line it seems to have paid on.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I think one thing that's really interesting then um that you made a comment about previously was how you sort of had it in like the back of your head that you wanted to, you know, run your own business, be your own boss.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think lots of people do have that mentality of like, it would be great.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: I even think that'd be great to run my own business, it'd be great to, you know, me call the shots and stuff like that.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: But I think in a financial planning space, um, you know, you think that to run your own business, you've got to be an IFA or you've got to be a financial advisor, you've got to set up your own, you'll set up your own practice, and that's how it will go.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, it's really interesting that you've sort of started your own business and have come from a position of we've discussed previously that might be slightly unique in the sense that you don't have your exams and it's a slightly different job role, but ultimately it still enabled you to be successful.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess would you say for individuals, you know, who maybe want to start their own business that you've got to find your niche and you've got to find what you love.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to go with what you know other people are telling you or might be sort of traditional avenues and paths.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: You are listening to the Financial Planner Live podcast, where we take a deep dive into the career of those that work within the financial planning profession.
• 16:57
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• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you don't have to go with the norm if you like.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think as long as the thing with running a business is it's not all roses and it's not all this perfect picture that a lot of people paint it as.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely do not paint it as a perfect picture.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've not got a work-life balance correct.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've, you know, there's been tears, there's been moments I've been like, what the hell am I doing?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think everyone goes through that.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the fact that I'm continuing it is because I'm so passionate about it.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I truly think that what I'm doing is making a huge impact to the firms that I work with.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if you're gonna, if you're in the kind of middle ground, it's like, should I, should I not?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely you should if your heart's in it 100%.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you 50-50, it's not gonna work because you need to just put your full passion and energy into it when you're there.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think there's definitely different avenues you can go down.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely being an IFA is not the be on end all, in my personal opinion.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think being a financial planner is absolutely great.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I love the role, I love the impact they can make on clients.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's not my stance on it at all.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's more so that, like you say, that's not the only role, that's not the be on end all role in the industry.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can make a huge impact, even as an administrator.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've known four administrators that are just they stay there, that's all they do, but they're phenomenal at it.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like they are the best admins that I know.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the trouble with that role is a lot of people use it as a stepping stone.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: They don't tend to put their be on end all in it because they're thinking, well, I'm not going to be here for long.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll do a job that I won't put everything into it because I just want to be a paraplanner and then I just want to be an IFA.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas when you meet people that are fully, I'd love to be an administrator, I love clients, I love picking up the phone.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: When you see people in that role and they just want to stay there, it's it's crazy how much of a better job they do because they're just happy where they are.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with no matter what role you pick in the industry.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I would say just make sure that you're kind of happy in it and you're passionate about it and what you're doing there is making an impact and it's making you feel better in yourself, yeah.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: You'll make an impact, then you're happy in your role.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if that makes sense.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, fully makes sense.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think one thing that you touched on just then was that you know, it's not all roses.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think I think starting your own business, whether you're starting your own business or even as a financial advisor, if you're going from employed to self-employed and losing that security, um, you know, it is definitely overcast um by an element of fear.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um and as you said, you know, it's not always all roses.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: So how do you deal with the times when you know it's not?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: And like making sure that you can keep having that sort of like positive mental attitude in the long run.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I definitely think there's moments where I just don't deal with it well.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's also okay, you know.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: 100% 100%.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think no one's ever 100% confident in anything they do, right?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: As a mum, I don't always feel 100% confident.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I have moments where I'm in tears thinking, what the hell am I doing?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: I need help with this.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Same as a business owner, same as a partner, same as a friend.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's exactly the same.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: You'll never, you're never gonna know 100% what you're doing all of the time.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, it's important to just take time away, breathe, think about it in like the logical sense.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And some days I'll come in and I just physically, it's just not right for me today, whether it's mental capacity, whether it's I need to do something with the family, it's just I take a step back, rethink, re-dig my mental state in terms of is this the worst thing that could happen?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do I need to look at it at a different avenue?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Probably yes.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do I need to speak someone to someone about it?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Probably yes.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the trouble with being a business owner, you sometimes feel like you just have to know it and deal with it because it's your firm.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas there's so many people around me that I can reach out to, call and be like, you know, do you know the answer to this?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Have you dealt with this before?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think just taking time out, thinking about it in a logical sense, and not just trying to bury myself and think it will happen in the end is hugely important.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm kind of coming more and more to terms with that now that I just I don't need to know everything.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I think it's always like a mentality for people, you know, across the board, not even like a work setting that you know, you have to get everything perfect and you have to get everything perfect first time.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: But fortunately, life doesn't work like that.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: And the the quicker that you accept that and like take on the bad days, you know, the quicker that allows you to be like positive in the long run.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: And you've mentioned there are loads of great things in terms of like mentorship and you know, you know, being able to reach out to other people within the industry that enable it's sometimes very nice when you reach out to someone and you're having a bit of a stressful day to be for them to be like, I felt exactly like that.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: And you know that you're not the only one that has that emotion.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then you can challenge it a lot better.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely, hugely.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's certain things as well that I don't know if it's stigma as a business owner, but you don't get many people being like, help.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Genuinely, you don't see LinkedIn posts about people saying I've had a really stressful day today.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: You see LinkedIn posts about I've won this award and I've dealt with this and I've had this amazing client meeting and everything's great, great, great.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the same.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I would never post on LinkedIn when I want to pay right.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's people who are afraid to say help, you know, like I just need some time out.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I just need and yeah, like similar people that do a role to me or people that have been in the industry for a while, I'll speak to them and they'll say, I had a day like this last week.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And from the outside looking in, you'd be shocked and be like, Well, no, everything's great in your business, you know, like you've got staff and you're happy and you're doing amazing.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And LinkedIn is saying all these achievements that you've made, and you speak to them, and they're actually saying, No, actually, I've been struggling, I've needed to take time out, or I found this hard as well.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it sounds bad to say it's reassuring, but it is because it's so natural, like you say, it's completely fine.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think people should be a lot more open about it, and then more people will talk about it and know that it's fine.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, they're definitely, but there's like a vulnerability in showing that side of you, and I think, especially from like a business owner perspective, you know, you feel like you have to be respected in all elements, and then probably LinkedIn is almost coming, becoming a bit like other social media, um social media streams, might not be looking and being like, they're so pretty, or they've got this, like Instagram, but it's definitely still the whole you put on a brave face, you put on all the good, all your good achievements, and potentially just don't post the things that aren't so good, which naturally you wouldn't, but um it's definitely like an interesting conversation.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, you've mentioned then you need to like take time out um at times and do something with the family or to allow yourself the opportunity to really take a break from work because I guess as a business owner that can occasionally be difficult as well.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: You see, yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I always make it very, very clear to everyone that I work with.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: I have a two-year-old, if he needs me, he needs me.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like genuinely, that will always come top.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone that comes on board with me, everyone that works with me now is very, very clear about that.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they'll have phone calls and they'll hear wheels on the bus in the background.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just generally happens, and if yeah, if I'm needed, then I'm needed.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So as much as it is difficult sometimes, and I feel bad for cancelling meetings, or sometimes I'll have to kind of have a meeting and then work and be at home and then have a meeting, you know.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of I'm very flexible in that sense, and I don't necessarily have a nine to five Monday to Friday, but I'm very open about that, and it is hard as a business owner because you feel like you should be in places, but I have come to the conclusion now that I have to know what's important, yeah, and I have to know my priority order, and when you put it in perspective, that has to come first, my business has to come second.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's a hard, it's hard, but when you actually look at it, take a step back and think about perspective, it's not hard at all.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: My family's and you've mentioned then your lovely two-year-old, which I know you know has actually played a big part in all of this journey when you talk about it.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think for women, there is is it's really exciting to hear actually how you know having your child actually almost like was the catalyst for all things.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I think lots of women really feel like, you know, either your your child always, as you mentioned, always takes the priority, but feel like that has to come to a level where they can't work or you know, might be worried about, you know, when I get to that point and I have children, you know, how is it all going to pan out?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: So, how have you managed this journey with a young child?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um I do I completely agree with you, and and it's even the point, I think it's you know, dads also want time out for their kids as well.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think that's becoming more and more popular.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think kind of back to the mum thing, I've I've definitely heard conversations of business owners where they've kind of said, Oh, they're at a certain age, so maybe something will happen soon.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Can I ask the question about kids?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, like why why should it matter?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I know it means time out, I know it means that they won't be fully available to your business, I know it means that other priorities come into order.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: However, if you're you've got such a good relationship with your employee, they have such a big respect for you, they're not necessarily gonna leave you high and dry and say, I only care about being a mum now, goodbye.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: There will be ways that you can work together potentially to make that happen and make it okay.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as an employee, if you were gonna get pregnant or thinking about it, it shouldn't be something you're scared of and worried that your career will be affected by it.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: It should be just this happens in my personal life.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I should be able to adapt my work in life to coming on's life with it.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, a lot of people want to start a family, want to have kids, want to have a life.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think I guess it's not even just kids, is it?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it's if anything else is going on personally, you want to take a month off to travel, for example.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to have a Friday off so I can go to this charity, or you know, do anything.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Some people feel bad for going to a dentist appointment when they're working.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's stuff like that to me.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's just if you create such an environment for people that they just feel comfortable that I know my boss knows I'll get the work done and I have enough respect for them to get the work done, but it just means that I have to pop out for two hours, come back, get the work done.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why should that matter?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like it shouldn't be theory.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: As long as the work gets done as an input as an employer, nothing else should really matter.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's kind of the mindset that I'm bringing my business.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if I was to grow and bring people in, that would be the mindset that I would have 100%.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's really interesting because you know, working within recruitment as my day-to-day, you would be when we're all in the office together, you would be surprised how often comments about women and their age actually, you know, and what that means in terms of like childbearing comes up.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually quite disturbing at times because ultimately, as someone who is a young woman, I'm would like to think that I'm going to have children in my future.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: To hear that these conversations do actually go on is a little bit unnerving.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess when we talk about the industry overall and bringing more females into the industry, and you know, I definitely think the financial planning profession is really trying to be progressive to bring more females in, these conversations ultimately undermine, you know, this and it does just cement the gender bias or the gender imbalance that we have within the industry if we keep on with these archaic opinions or attitudes.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Hugely.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think even if you had a 20-year-old guy in the office, he then took shared paternity leave of his partner.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: What's the difference?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is no difference, but in my opinion, that should be the norm.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like now it's not, but I feel like in years to come it probably will be because parenting is becoming a lot more 50-50 than it ever has been.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the same thing.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Why should people be hired or not hired?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's a potential of them having time away from the business for a short period of time.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you're respectful enough to that employee, know that they're good enough at their job and kind of tailor your needs to their needs, it tends to work better in the end.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's definitely something that needs to be worked on.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: And like you say, I've heard people say, Well, should we take her on because or we've got a guy that we could take on.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe that's better than this.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just it's crazy because that woman could have been the best employee they ever had.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: But just because she's got kids or she might have kids, she's not got the job because of that reason, it's just ridiculous.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and ultimately, you know, it's discrimination when you know it's not legal to do it, but it's it's unnerving, as I said, how much these conversations go on.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, if you're in a position where you've got two individuals and you to in decide to employ the male over the female because of this one reason, you are promoting that, you are promoting that gender inequality within the industry.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I think businesses need to realize that.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, and also, as I said, with shared, as you've mentioned, with shared parental leave soon, you know, you could make this decision on something completely objective as well, because you don't know whether this is going to happen.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, you know, the you you don't know that gentleman might have a pregnant partner throughout all that period.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: So you're almost getting yourself and shot yourself in the foot as well at times because you don't actually know what's going on behind closed doors.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think one thing that's really interesting is you've mentioned it, and I've just like teased out one thing that you mentioned previously was you know, with fusion business management, there's definitely like a sweet spot.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and what you found almost like with the clients that you work with.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: So, do you mind elaborating on that a little bit further and sort of where you found your services, you know, work best, I guess?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think at the beginning I was very, which is so unlike my nature before I started this, I was so relaxed about who I would work with, what the services would look like.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was super, super relaxed.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was because I wasn't, I couldn't go all guns blazing in one direction and it did not work.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I was very relaxed and I kind of spoke to a lot of firms, spoke to them about doing loads of different services, spoke to them about how it could fit in with them.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know how it happened, but it just happened in the fact that I would work with firms that kind of have one to two IFA or financial planners.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: They would have a relatively small team, if any.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of my firms just outsource everything, which works quite well because then we just work virtually with each other.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it works really well.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it's just, yeah, in the beginning I didn't know if I'd worked with big big firms or whether I've worked with smaller ones, but I think I've just learned that bigger ones require a full-time in-house practice manager just because of the workload, because they needed to be available, and there's just enough work to warrant them being full-time.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I found that the smaller firms they don't need touch points daily, they don't need me to be held them accountable every single day, they just need a weekly catch-up, they need to be held accountable, they need me to get some work done for them, and they just need to know that the reins are being held basically.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I think definitely, yeah, the smaller type of firms that just they've got a nice client bank, they're really looking to improve, they're trying to work harder, you know.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of them work with a business coach.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of my firms work with Brett Davison as well.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so they kind of are really trying to drive their business forward and they come out of Brett's meetings full of ideas and motivated, like, this is amazing, and then they never get time to do it.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm kind of coming to just help them actually get stuff done and hold them accountable and say, well, don't worry about that shiny new system that everyone's talking about.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go back to your original goals and objectives and go down that route first.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: We'll worry about that later.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just basically keeping them on track as a business owner, as much as they would keep their clients on track with their investment.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: So that sounds really exciting.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: It obviously did Joe, you obviously add a lot of value within that role.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: I see you've spoken on LinkedIn as well about like visual testimonies and things like that.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess you mind shining a light on some of like the unique ways that you can support a business because stuff like that you don't really think of off the top of your head.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the visual testimonies are more so I believe that clients or firms should have it to show clients what they've done.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: So as much as they can bang the drum and say, I'm amazing and I can do this for you, and I can provide this outcome for you.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: When you actually see a visual client story, which if you've not, you need to see someone's because it's phenomenal.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: When you're hearing it from a client directly to say, they have allowed me to retire, they have allowed me to do this job that I've always dreamed of doing, they've helped my kids move out and go to uni, etc.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you're actually seeing the real stories come from real people's mouths, that's not scripted, that's not they're told what to say, it's very much just real and in the moment, and they're just telling you what's happened.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: The the way that can impact you as like a consumer from the out from the outside looking in is incredible.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And imagine if when we started working with someone or some, you know, like if you were going to a LashTech or a new gender, whatever it's something like that, if you could actually have people in front of you that you knew they'd gone there with this problem, that person has then given them a solution which is incredible.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: They're not just telling you they're amazing, you're seeing it actually in front of you.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: It really makes you want to work with them more because it's true.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's more like a reassuring perspective as to give like a really good marketing tool, it's just like a reassurance perspective.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I think in terms of value added, it's very much perspective.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: I work with firms on two different ends of the spectrum, and one firm finds value in speaking to me twice a week, running through things.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Am I going crazy?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Should I do this?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Should I focus on that?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Let's actually talk about this.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can we find a solution for that?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And they find huge value in that.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then I've got another firm where I do everything but finance and driving the business forward and seeing clients for them.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just, and obviously the client work as well.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: But the two different ends of the spectrum, they're both value added.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: They both find working with me like incredibly, I say I hope so, but incredibly no, I'm sure they do.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess value added is very subjective.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: But from my perspective, it's as long as I'm making the difference to them and their business and I'm freeing up their time to do what they should be doing, I'm doing the right thing.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 100%.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: We mentioned the visual testimonies then, which you're completely spot odd, you know.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: You wouldn't, but we we mentioned LashTech there, but like I wouldn't go to a lash tech if I hadn't seen pictures of what they've done.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you go on Instagram and you see videos, and you're like, oh, hers look amazing, and it makes you want to go there.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: So obviously it's a completely different setting, but it's definitely, you know, similar impact.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, similar impact.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: Once you can see what the effect of you know the work, you're way more engaged in it and way more likely to use those services.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that sounds like a really exciting project.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: Have you ever been involved with other like exciting projects within businesses that have really like got you excited?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, hugely.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of what I do just gets me excited, which I find extremely sad.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I love it, like someone showed me their client journey the other day, and it was phenomenal.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was one of the best I'd seen, and I got so excited about seeing it.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, You've done incredible, like you're amazing, well done.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: I just that excites me.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like seeing a firm do well excites me.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the biggest project I've probably done is I boarded a firm last October time.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: We started working with their marketing consultant around the same time.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: We've literally just launched their website, so it just shows how long processes can take.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so exciting, though.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: But we've done that, we've done like a new brand, new logo, new pictures, new website, new client videos, new processes, new everything basically.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it looks incredible.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I might be biased, but it looks incredible.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think seeing the passion, the hard work, and everything else in between come to life, and that I've been involved to help with that.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's it makes it all worthwhile because I've kind of seen the result now, which was yeah, amazing.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: And one thing that you mentioned there, like I might be biased.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: The thing was an individual like yourself that's actually not that embedded within the business, you're probably not that biased because maybe if you're within the business and you know, like you're all sat there together, you can get really sucked into the moment, but you sort of like almost as an external thing that is really well in tune, you can give like a different perspective, or you can go away and do another task and come back two days later and be like, actually, you know, I've gone away and I've gone back into it, and I don't think it's as good as it should be.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, so you probably give a really good, like outside looking in kind of view on things.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Probably, yeah.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think I do feel biased to us to a slight extent, but like you say, I think the experience helps massively, and that happens in across everything I do for firms.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think probably the work I did a year ago is not as good quality as it is now because I've gained 12 months of experience in so many different firms.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just the more firms I work with, the more experience I gain, which means I can give more of an outsider's perspective, and that will just continue to grow and grow and grow the more I work with people.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the fact that I can provide that to people, whilst also being embedded as a team member, if you like, but just on a grander scale, is huge.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And not many people get to do that and get to gain that experience and get to make an impact in so many different firms.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact that I can do it, obviously, I'm incredibly grateful.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 100%.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds super exciting.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: And one thing that we've spoken about before, and it goes all the way back to your beginning of your journey within financial planning, is you're really passionate about sort of bringing young people into the industry moving forward.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, do you mind elaborating on that a little bit for us?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think young people, but also just people starting their journey in the financial services industry because I've heard so many people in first interviews or on their CV, I'd love to be a financial planner, I'd love to be an IFA.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I speak to them, I actually ask the question, okay, why?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: They'll say, Oh, my mate's dad's got a lovely car and a lovely house, and he's a financial planner, so that's what I want to do.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, I need to get my exams and I need to join this big corporate, and I'll be I'll be rolling in it basically.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: And as much as money motivates me within the industry, I appreciate that.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's no passion in that statement.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: No, there isn't, no.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's very much just I've seen someone else do it.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like an okay route, I'll just go with it.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I think then when they start working in the industry and they join at a different role, they then start to see the different nuts and bolts of the firm.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: They get to see these are real clients that you're dealing with, it's real money, it's real, you know, someone retiring, that's a huge life-changing experience that you have had involvement in achieving.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you then start to find where you fit in a firm.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: So as much as a lot of people come into the industry, I want to be an IFA, it's just very much like being open-minded, and maybe it's the education piece behind the scenes of like schools, like I said on earlier, a lot of them bang the drum about university, and then they'll bang the drum about apprenticeships, financial services.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: People kind of know what that is.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Is it working in a bank?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is it working with someone's money?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just dealing with pensions?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't feel like a lot of people know what the industry actually does and can be, and where I believe it's going in like the financial planning space, is huge.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that education for younger people coming in should be more spoken about.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: And if they were aware that you didn't have to be good at exams, you don't have to be good at speaking to clients.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's different areas you can be involved in and still succeed and be good at what you do.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't just have to be qualified as much as you can and deal with clients every single day to be successful in the industry.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I think one thing you mentioned then that's quite funny is you know, uh, my mate's dad's an IFA and he's got a flash car and a big house, and I want that.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's all like external things rather than, you know, actually how working within the industry can leave you feeling fulfilled and leave you feeling like you've added value because, you know, financial services across the board is a very large spectrum of jobs.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: But when you look at financial planning, I don't think there's another like sub-profession in a bigger industry that allows you to, within this industry, that allows you to add so much value on an individual basis to people.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like that's what we need to shine a light on to two people when we talk about the financial planning profession.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because as you mentioned with the testimonials, I can't imagine anything better than having sat down with someone and you know, as a business, having allowed them to retire five years earlier.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yes, or things like that.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's crazy what financial planners do for people.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: Hugely.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also the the industry is going more and more into like a work-life balance.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, whereas you know, like Wall Street, you think of they work 20 hours a day, they're you know, they're rolling in money, but that's what they're doing.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've spoken to someone before and they've gone, Oh, I've always wanted to be a stockbroker because my again, my mate's dad did it.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they always had a nice house and they were always really comfortable.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Okay, but how often did your friend see his dad?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, I'd never saw him around there.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, There's your point, then exactly that.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I would never want that for my future family.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've got an amazing house, we can do whatever we want to do, but I've never seen mum.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'll see her on the odd occasion, she'll be there at Christmas, but I've never that has been like my sole focus on this.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: I never want my son to grow up and be like, Yeah, mum's always provided for me, but I never saw her.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what's the point?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: Genuinely wanting the point.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if he can see that mum's a hard worker, but she's always had her values in the right place, and she's always been there for me when I needed her, she's always been at my place, she's always been at my parents' evening, but I know that she's worked hard to grasp what she's done.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, this might not be as big as it could have been if I put 100% into it.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: But if I can then be that role model and know that you can have the best of both to a point, I've won, no matter how big this is.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because one thing, and I was having this conversation with someone else quite recently, like work isn't your identity.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, work is super important, and you know, don't get me wrong, you know, I if I'm if work isn't going as well as I want it to, I do take it personally.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: But when you go and sit and you have a drink with your friend, you might say, Oh, how's work?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: and you know, talk about it for a couple of minutes.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, then you talk about a whole range of other things because your work and what you do is not your identity.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: So as you said, I think it's really important for you to put everything into your nine to five, or very often it's not a nine to or five, so whatever that working pattern looks like.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: But to remember that you can have a bad week and you don't have to carry that into the weekend and mean that you're a bad person, you know, you are there's lots of different parts of a person, and only one of them is work.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly that.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some people do the opposite.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, I was probably the opposite before I became a parent because it is a lot of obviously Monday to Friday, five days a week out of your seven is involved in that.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: And like I always used to say, I saw my work colleagues for more than I saw my partner at that point in time.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've still got friends from when I work, like I'm Obviously, you take friendships away from work and they're really stable, like friendships, and you you take them through.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you say, that's not a work friendship anymore, that's a personal friendship that you'll talk about work slightly, but then it goes into everything else that that's really meaningful to you.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the fact that you can do that and decipher between that is amazing.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you put things into perspective and you take a step back about what is important and what do I actually want to achieve, work is just a tool to help you in your personal life to get there, as opposed to just I could fully consume myself and work, then my home life just gets affected and it comes in as and when it needs to.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: We work to live.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't know what's the expression.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: Work to live to work, live to work.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it is really important to remember that.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I sometimes I say this now, I have to keep myself in check with this.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: But um, you know, recruitment itself is an industry where you know you have this big illusion that you have to work really long hours to be successful, you've got to be the first in the office, the last to leave.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I did an Instagram takeover on our Instagram last week.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the things I did was I filmed myself leaving the office at 20 past five.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm going home.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I've I've done my day, like I'm going home.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have to sit behind a desk for 14 hours to be successful.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: That is not what success looks like for me.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: It looks like me leaving a comfortable time, going home and having my house all tidy and ready for the next day, you know.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's so many different elements apart from just hitting all your KPIs and making sure that you've got all your to-do list and the office done.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hugely.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I bet having a flighty house meant your mental health was 10 times better for the next day to come in fresh and be like, I'm ready.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you came home at like 10 o'clock, had a horrible tape rate that made you feel awful, and then come back the next day, know you got a messy house, no you feel awful, you just feel sluggish, and it would just be a top one effect, isn't it?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so all these factors that you actually don't think to play with work ultimately massively do have a big work.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think, you know, Lisa, you've mentioned about bringing different people within the industry and put you a little bit on the spot here.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_03: But I guess if you had someone that was like, I'm an N R in and you had to sort of like in a nutshell try and sell their financial planning profession to them, what would you say?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: I would say a good question.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: That is very good.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been there before and I've kind of spoken to people that are young and they've left school and they're like, I'm an R in.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Should I go to uni?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: Should I actually jump into profession?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know when you're ready to jump into a job, you know when you're ready to you feel older, you feel like you're ready to, you know, deal with real life people.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said to you before, the the industry is hugely impactful, like more than I probably could relate to any other industry, because like I say, you're making real differences to real people's lives.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: You are going into work, and yeah, I help with the processing in the background and systems to get there.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: An administrator helps with you know booking them in, and the planner helps with, you know, deciding what to do.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, they come into the industry, they come to you with a problem that they want a solution for, and real people are actually making an impact to make that happen.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I've seen people retire five years early.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen people that have come really unhappy, gone for a divorce, everything's everywhere, they just need some hand holding.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: They'll then come in and be the happiest I've ever seen them, and they'll come, they'll send you pictures of their holidays and they'll come in and be like, Oh, I did this yesterday, let me show you pictures.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just seeing the real impact that it can make on real clients' faces.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that is just no matter how you can impact that, even in the slightest way, if you can actually change someone's life, where else can you do that realistically?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where else do you have that much of an impact on helping someone?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's my beliefs of it.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I I completely agree.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we think about life in terms of I very much think about life in terms of like pillars of well-being.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I speak about this a lot.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: There's definitely mental well-being, your physical well-being, and I think financial well-being is actually something really important.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: So if you think that this whole industry is designed to keep that one pillar standing, and when you feel like your finances are in order, you can carry on with your life comfortably.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: There's nothing worse than, you know, even just going to a shop and seeing a dress that you like and being like, can I or can I not afford that?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: Is that going to impact my rent money?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: Is that going to impact what I have for dinner this week?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like being in that state of unflow is so damaging to everything else.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: So as an industry, the fact that we're able to, well, it's able to upkeep people's financial well-being and you can add that much value, and you can add value to you know their children and stuff like that.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know another industry like this.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_03: But um, exactly.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much, Lucy, for your time.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: You've been an absolutely excellent guest.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_03: We've got so much to share with our audience that I know they'll be really excited to hear.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you very much.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.