Latest / The Mobilization Mindset / Episode 139 | Why Most Construction Companies Struggle with Growth with Jerry Aliberti

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Episode 139 | Why Most Construction Companies Struggle with Growth with Jerry Aliberti · The Mobilization Mindset

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Why now?
0:01
SPEAKER_01: Why is now the right time to do it?
0:03
SPEAKER_01: Why not 12 months from now?
0:04
SPEAKER_01: Because if you don't know now, well then we're kind of wasting our time of, you know, because because then I won't be able to help you, right?
0:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, the why now is kind of like what is your what is your level of intent, right?
0:16
SPEAKER_00: What do you really want to improve your company?
0:18
SPEAKER_00: Or are you just kind of, hey, I woke up one morning, I'm feeling a little crappy.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: I need I need to reach out to people to figure out if they can help me.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: And then that that intent's kind of short and fleeting, right?
0:34
SPEAKER_00: Hey folks, welcome to another episode of the Mobilization Mindset Podcast.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: I am extremely pumped today to have Jerry Alaberti here from Pro Excel Consulting.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: He is a consultant.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna let him kind of tell you everything that he does, but uh he's he he dives deep into companies, construction companies, and just gets them moving and grow uh growing and scaling.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: So, Jerry, welcome to the podcast.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: Drew, thank you.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: And thank you for having me, man.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: I love mobilization funding.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: And uh this is my third podcast for you guys on punk.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Third.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: I didn't uh well hopefully we'll make this one a little bit uh a little bit more interesting than the other two, but uh really glad to be here.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm I'm actually really excited to be doing an event with you here in May.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: That's really exciting with uh Patrick Shirney.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh we can talk a little bit about that uh towards the end.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh first question I I want to ask is just tell me a little bit about your background and how it's positioned you really nice uh to be uh to grow your your own company and focus on commercial subcontractors.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've been all over the place in the construction industry, I feel like every single role possible.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about that.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: So I've been in the construction industry for over 23 years.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: 19 of those years was working for self-performed GCs.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they still do exist, especially in every civil side of the uh of the business.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, I personally managed and ran over$300 plus million dollars of my own work, in addition to being a part of several hundred million more when I just started as an assistant, super assistant PM.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: I've also been privileged enough where I ran my own estimated teams, which is not something that uh a lot of people, uh a lot of experience that people have in this business.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: I I um I worked for really large contractors.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: I managed over$12 billion worth of bids, probably far more.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh I, you know, my single largest project was a$1.25 billion project.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: Most of my work was in the New York City area and surrounding area.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, we started dabbling up in the Massachusetts area as well.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: So a couple of years ago, I took a very untraditional path in this business, right?
2:45
SPEAKER_01: So being a PM was super for many years, and also being an estimator for many years, seeing both sides of the of that of that critical equation.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, I broke away and taking the consulting advising route and employee training route has been a very natural path for me.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: I've always I was always that guy where, you know, well, we want to initiate something new in this business.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: Let's give it to Jerry to work out the quirks and just tell us how we need to navigate this.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: So it's been an interesting path.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think a lot of the our generation is really is really open to outside perspectives and training.
3:24
SPEAKER_01: So today with Pro Excel, I help contractors accelerate business growth.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: How do I do that?
3:29
SPEAKER_01: Is either to employ training or operational efficiency advising on the consulting side of the equation.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: All right, we're gonna get to, we're gonna, I'm gonna get to those questions about what what you kind of focus on.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: But I'm interested, you you said something interesting.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: So you spent, I mean, I looked, I mean, you spent 18, 20 years in construction, right?
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Directly in construction.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Then 2022, all of a sudden you say, I want to be an entrepreneur, I want to go out on my own, I want to be a master of my own destiny.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: I know that there are tons of listeners out there that have started their own company, subcontracting company, or maybe another type of company that were at one point in a larger company, right?
4:09
SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about that thought process because it takes guts to go out on your own, man.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it takes a lot of guts.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, everybody listening who who owns their own company out there like feels that every day.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, but talk to me about like you're sitting at your old company, big company, you got all this experience, and you're like, dude, I want to get the hell out of here.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: I want to I want to run my own stuff.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: That's an awesome question because I was with my first company.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: So I worked for three different companies, ranging from$100 million a year to$1.5 billion a year.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: And I was with my first company for 14 years.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: And the last couple of years, I was just, you know, something was hitting me, and I didn't know what it was.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: I thought maybe I just needed to jump ship and and change things, right?
4:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, the grass isn't greener on the other side, not all the time, right?
4:58
SPEAKER_01: And it was the beginning of my entrepreneurial itch that I just didn't know at the time.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: So I made a move.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: That that next business, I made a move after one year again.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: I said, man, something's going on here.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I just need to go to a really big company, you know.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I really try that out.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: So I went to a really big company, and oh boy, was that not the right decision either.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: So I said, you know what?
5:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna start betting on myself.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: I got to a point, and and and and this is where this really gets serious, Jew.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I got to a point where I couldn't even get out of bed in the morning.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: I was I was really depressed.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: I I just couldn't, I couldn't take it no more.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: I was going to work, I was really anxious.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: I said that I said, this isn't the right way to live my life.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, I would come home, I wasn't present with my kids.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: I said, and finally I I I just started having those conversations with my wife, and I said, I I I gotta do my own thing.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to start to this.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: I had a concrete business, it was a side hustle, it was a weekend side hustle business.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: It was really taking off.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: Like I was ready to go full-time with it.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: I just didn't know that people like me existed, right?
6:01
SPEAKER_01: So I didn't want to do it by myself.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: So I said, you know what?
6:04
SPEAKER_01: I need a couple more years.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: I still got the equipment, I can always come back to it, you know?
6:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, but, anyways, I I took the consultant route, I took the employee training route.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: I love, I love, I love training.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: I love training, you know, and and I speak the language of all the different positions that I help train.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: And it energizes me and it gives me a different level of energy as well.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: And I wanted a remote business as well.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: All I need is my phone and my computer, and I travel the country.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean, next week I'm going from West Coast to East Coast to West Coast, and it's it's pretty cool.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: It's not always fun to be away from your family, but it's cold.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: No, that I mean, I just I know, I mean, first off, I have felt all those things that you just outlined, like getting out of bed and asking yourself, what the hell am I doing?
6:52
SPEAKER_00: What the hell am I doing?
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I felt like that for a number of years, right?
6:58
SPEAKER_00: Because I was working in larger companies and they were great companies, man.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: I I can't, I can't at all complain about them, right?
7:04
SPEAKER_00: But there's that, there's that gut feeling that just something's off, right?
7:08
SPEAKER_00: And and you make that decision to take that leap into something more entrepreneurial and more challenging when the pain of the status quo exceeds the comfort of being in a larger company.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: Well said.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: And I just woke up, so I I totally get what you're saying.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: And I know there are other people out there that feel the same way.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: So uh I would tell people who are listening right now who are working in a larger company, who want to bet on themselves, there's probably no other person, no better person than Jerry to call, right?
7:37
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, thanks for sharing that.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, we're gonna do a whole podcast on that, the whole subject matter uh at some point.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, okay, let's move gears.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, all right.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: So you went out on your own, you got you got uh Pro Excel.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: When you start an engagement with uh a specialty trades contractor, um what is the first, what does that first interaction look like?
8:04
SPEAKER_00: What are you trying to accomplish in that first interaction?
8:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, first it's a discovery entry call, right?
8:10
SPEAKER_01: So it's really on this.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: We need to get clear on three objectives before we could actually move forward to see if I can even help you and what my services look like for you.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: The first objective is why are we here?
8:21
SPEAKER_01: What are your pain points and what are your challenges?
8:23
SPEAKER_01: Right?
8:24
SPEAKER_01: So that's the first objective.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: But then the next direction, uh then the next objective is what is it actually costing you?
8:29
SPEAKER_01: Not just financially in your business, but your personal life as well.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: One of my longest standing clients told me, Jerry, if I even fix these problems, the problems that he explained, he was gonna have a heart attack in the next couple of months.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: His best friend had just had a heart attack as well, who owned a construction business.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's not well, you know, Drew, luckily he's still with us, but um it's not just financial, it's also personal as well.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of people just are are completely on the verge of divorce because of this business.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: It's really difficult.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and a lot of them are suffering with cash flow, and and many call me up and say, Jerry, I'm doing really well.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: I just want to become better, which is another great reason to call me up for as well, right?
9:09
SPEAKER_01: Call a consultant up.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: Then the final objective is timing.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: Why now?
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Why is now the right time to do it?
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Why not 12 months from now?
9:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: Right?
9:19
SPEAKER_01: Because if you don't know now, well, then we're kind of wasting our time, you know, because because then I won't be able to help, right?
9:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's like that intent level.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: Like what, you know, it the why now is kind of like what is your what is your level of intent, right?
9:32
SPEAKER_00: What do you really want to improve your company?
9:34
SPEAKER_00: Or are you just kind of, hey, I woke up one morning, I'm feeling a little crappy.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: I need I need to reach out to people to figure out if they can help me.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: And then that that intent's kind of short and fleeting, right?
9:44
SPEAKER_00: All right.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: So they're a customer now, you're on site, you have kind of your first true deep dive.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: Tell me about sort of the four to five core buckets that you really focus on to really understand their business and where you can dig in and sort of provide incremental value.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: Like what's that first initial view of those sort of buckets?
10:04
SPEAKER_00: And it might be more than four.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm just, you know, I kind of think so.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: I I tell my clients, I said, listen, you're gonna hire me for clarity, right?
10:12
SPEAKER_01: When you have clarity, you're gonna be able to make better decisions.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: When you make better, faster decisions, hence my company logo, I help you accelerate business growth, right?
10:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's why you hire someone like me is because I'm not so close to the operation.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: So I tell clients, you know, you're breathing your own exhaust every day.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: You bring me in for that breath of fresh air because you're sowing the weeds every day.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: So typically, what I help clients with is, and I tell them, I said, listen, I I won't have, you know, hence the reason why I collaborate a lot with Patrick as well, is I'm not gonna look at your technology stack, I'm not gonna look at your CFO and accounting stuff.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: I want to know about your cash flow.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm an operations guy.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Um how you get your work, which is your marketing and business development, how do you estimate your work?
11:04
SPEAKER_01: Which coming from my background, I can really stick my teeth into that.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay, now you got the job.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, how oh well, how do you close those jobs, right?
11:12
SPEAKER_01: So, how do you pick up your win ratio?
11:15
SPEAKER_01: And then we go through that whole closing process.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: Now you got the job, how do you get that job out to your field?
11:21
SPEAKER_01: I have an entire process on the bit handoff because that is there's many studies on the internet that show that that's where most projects fall apart.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: And how do you get your projects up and running?
11:33
SPEAKER_01: Again, many statistics show the first 20% will dictate the final 80%, right?
11:37
SPEAKER_01: So let's get that.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: How do you get that momentum going on your projects?
11:41
SPEAKER_01: How do you actually execute your projects?
11:43
SPEAKER_01: And how do you continuously improve on your projects so your reputation is getting built and your company is able to sustain that growth and you have more opportunities coming in?
11:53
SPEAKER_01: So it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful cycle.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful day.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: No, that's that's super interesting.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: So you uh you you mentioned a couple little things a couple things there, but like one thing you you you leaned in on was that bid handoff.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, talk talk about some of the comp talk about some of the pitfalls some of the companies are making in that bid handoff that either cost them money, cost them time, cost them quality.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, talk about that process a little bit, some of the pitfalls with some of your customers, or or just people who aren't your customers that you just know in the industry.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, I I would say this the majority of the clients that I ask about a bid handoff, they'll say either yes, we have one, but we're not doing it officially.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: And then when I ask more questions, their bid handoff is all of about 15 minutes.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: And then those who just say straight up no, we don't.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: We we just let the fields figure it out, which is an old school mindset and an old school mindset that I was a part of for several years, but knowing how how how how badly that messes up projects, I I would never advise that.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: So if you're not if you're not having a bid handoff, what are what are some of the core risks associated with that?
13:04
SPEAKER_00: That like some of the core risks that hey, so our listener out there can be like, oh, I don't I don't have a bid handoff.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: I've got tons of issues in my company.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: What are some of the things if they're listening, they could be like, yep, I have that problem, I have that problem, I have that problem.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, really, if you're a labor-intensive contractor, labor is your greatest variable.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: So how are you getting that messaging on your assumptions that you make?
13:26
SPEAKER_01: So a bit handoff is supposed to is supposed to take the assumptions, the risks, the logic, um, the means of egress, the overhead that was spread, uh, the overhead and profit that was spread into what numbers, all of those assumptions need to get out to the field, need to be transferred out to the field.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: And then you need to understand, like, for example, what is your what's your sub-leveling sheet look like, right?
13:54
SPEAKER_01: So if you have five different subs for your concrete work, yeah, you're not always gonna choose the cheapest one.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, why didn't you choose the cheapest one, right?
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Well, I chose the one that was third in the in the stack of of five of five numbers.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: I've done that plenty of times.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: There's a reason why a vendor pricing, right?
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe you have a particular um steel product and you chose um that steel vendor that was more expensive, but their lead time was far less, which was for you to be able to meet your schedule.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I mean, on top of that, okay, their lead time's far less.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna pay for that excellence and that dependability, right?
14:32
SPEAKER_00: And that gives you confidence you can complete your job.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they have better terms, maybe they're more expensive, but they allow you to pay in 60 days versus 15 or whatever it might be, right?
14:42
SPEAKER_01: Sky's the limit with these kinds of conversations, right?
14:45
SPEAKER_01: And it depends on that particular niche as well.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: But these are the hundreds of conversations that are making its way out to the field, and that's why that bid handoff is so critical.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: So, who's in that bid handoff meeting?
14:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I would say, well, no, I would say it's it's got to be the estimator or the estimators that that that worked on that project.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be the project manager and it's gonna be the the foreman.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, sorry, the super.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: And depending on the size of the company and how the company's set up, even the foreman potential.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: But it's got to be one intent as well.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: And you need to set that project up and assign responsibilities.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: I like to do pre-mortems as well.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, what's gonna go wrong on this project?
15:23
SPEAKER_01: And anybody with any level of experience is gonna know what's gonna go wrong on a construction project before you even step foot on.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: Not a hundred percent, but a lot of it, right?
15:31
SPEAKER_01: It's all it's all pretty typical.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was listening to a podcast earlier today, actually earlier this morning, and one of the guys on the podcast was mentioning kind of this sort of bid handoff process.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: And he was saying, uh, particularly in smaller companies, have have the field guys, you know, in the pre-construction process and let them have input on it, right?
15:57
SPEAKER_00: And then when you get to the bid handoff, you're gonna exit, you're gonna, you're gonna communicate the operating model for that particular project, right?
16:05
SPEAKER_00: And then those guys in the field who are lead, you know, who are who are leading those projects, then have that buy-in that they were part of that pre-construction process.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: So then you have continuity of the people who are back in the office, people who are in the, you know, in the hand bid handoff, and then obviously once you get out to the field and executing work.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that seems reasonable, right?
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, absolutely.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: It's something that I certainly preached about as well.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: I I was actually gonna I was actually gonna state that this handoff should almost start before you even submit the bid by having your team a part of that.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: And and and and I'll tell you this a lot of the larger companies, part of their role and responsibility of being a PM andor even a super is allocating a certain amount of time um before Bit goes in.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: So if you're a large company and you're building multi-hundred million dollar projects or even a$50 million project, you'll most likely know who your team is gonna be to build that.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: If you don't have a team to build that, hiring everyone off the street is gonna be is gonna be a little bit of a challenge.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be an extra challenge.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: I've seen that and lived through that myself personally, and it's not easy doing that.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: You're setting yourself up and you're adding an additional uh layer of risk.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have a I have a really good buddy uh on the GC side, a really good buddy who works for one of the large uh you know general contractors uh that everybody knows.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: And he's a uh a senior project manager.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: And um I talked to him and he's like, I know what project I'm on that starts in four months.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm part of the a pre-construction process.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: So the bid hand golf actually starts with that, but there are a lot of conversations, Drew, that happens between those final, especially with a large, more corporate environment.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of conversations that happens with the senior executives the hours before a big gets submitted as well.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, that's that's the same for our company.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, we got 30 employees.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: I bid a job once that was 180 million dollars and we dropped 10 million dollars in within one hour before the bid was submitted.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of conversations happen.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: You already so um you kind of talked about uh the estimator, right, on the project.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, when you start working with companies, what are what are the primary pitfalls in estimating that you kind of see the common mistakes for but and think about these companies that are sort of in that$10 million revenue range to you know$50,$60 million revenue range, sort of the smaller, sort of lower middle market specialty trade contractors.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, if you've been following any of my marketing, especially LinkedIn, you'll know I have a sweet spot for estimators because estimating is a very, very difficult side of uh the business profession, uh the construction profession.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, if if if you get a job, if you get a job and the job doesn't make money, it's the estimator's fault, right?
18:56
SPEAKER_01: If you get a job and and they make a ton of money, the project team was fantastic, right?
19:00
SPEAKER_01: So estimators never get the credit that they get.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: But one of the biggest pitfalls that I see is a lot of estimators don't really have field experience.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: And because of that lack of confidence, they're they're constantly relying on unit prices and they reverse engineer unit prices rather than building crews from the ground up.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: So I speak a lot about labor-intensive contractors.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, GCs that are that are typically CMs, all they're doing is just collecting and and and uh you know, they're they're collecting subcontractor pricing.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: But for labor-intensive contractors, they're they're you utilizing unit prices rather than building crews from the ground up.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: And that comes with confidence and that comes with experience.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: So that's my number one biggest um pain point that I see.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and obviously the estimator's got it fully.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's interesting.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: You say a lot of estimators don't have field experience.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: Um I would imagine a good estimator needs to know the true productivity rates in a cat in a in a human capital intensive sort of project, right?
20:04
SPEAKER_00: And then understand, all right, the what-if scenarios.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: All right, how does productivity decline or how does how does productivity accelerate given a variety of different variables?
20:15
SPEAKER_00: And I would imagine that should be baked in in some fashion, either in the bid, right, from the estimator, or or at least leveling expectations to set have some sort of cushion, right, for for the for the company bidding that work.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: And and and they need to be able to communicate as well.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of you know, estimators are are really smart people, but they don't know how to communicate their numbers to explain everything that you just said right now.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: I had I had a a client who who actually knows me from the estimating side of the business, uh, when I was working in the construction uh directly, and he hired me just to help his estimators be able to communicate numbers to him.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: So he has the confidence to either run with those numbers or cut those numbers without having to go into he he just found himself always having to dive deep into the estimate because his estimators were unable to communicate properly.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: So that's really important, especially now since the business is really going towards design built.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Um that's interesting that you so construction expert gets dives deep into a client's uh business, particularly on the estimating side, ends up being a communication therapist.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
21:31
SPEAKER_00: That's that's any business, man.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: That's just leadership, right?
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Um what do you ever get pulled into?
21:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious, uh as you some of these subjects like estimating, you know, uh the the bid handoff are very operational excellence and and then obviously field execution, very sort of in the can get in the weeds, right?
21:54
SPEAKER_00: Which which gets you pretty intimate with some of these companies.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: Um what are some characteristics?
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Characteristics of construction leaders.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, think about executive level construction leaders, and then we can go down from there that make for really good operators, right?
22:09
SPEAKER_00: And this could be personality characteristics, it can be expertise, you know, an expertise in a certain area.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: But what makes a really good construction operator that you've noticed?
22:19
SPEAKER_01: In a senior leadership role?
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in a senior leadership role, yeah.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, being able to take in well, okay, so so let me say this, and this and this hits me personally.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: Um a lot of people are put in their position because they're they were just a comfortable ally of the owner and someone who designated them in that position.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: They don't necessarily have the leadership skills and communication skills fit for that position.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: And what I find is if you want to be a great leader, you need to understand that the people that you're supervising are relying on you to make great decisions for the company for their career ultimately, right?
23:00
SPEAKER_01: And if if they mess up, it's because you're failing them and you need to accept that.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: I was told in the very beginning of my career, the higher up on the ladder you go in this business, don't think that you're working for less people.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: You're working for more people.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: You need to understand that if if the people that you're supervising, provided that you're giving them the resources and you're giving them and and and you're giving them the support, if they're failing meets, it's because you're not possibly asking better questions to help them succeed.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: Listen, some people just don't have what it takes in this business, right?
23:37
SPEAKER_01: And and you need to understand when it's time to let go of somebody, but provided that they're competent enough to be in this business, if they're failing, then you need to ask better questions on why they're failing.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: And you can't point fingers to the people that you're leading.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: Because if I was the owner of a company and my alita was pointing fingers to someone that they're in charge to lead, I would ultimately, you know, put them on the spot in a professional way, of course.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: No, that makes total sense.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, I I I that brings me back to an old quote uh from one of my favorite movies, Remember the Titans.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: And uh I've said, I think I've said this on the on this podcast before, but attitude reflects leadership, man.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, you know, it you can't point fingers to your guys and gals who who work for you when when the buck really ultimately stops with you.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you set the tone as a leader in your company.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: And um and you set the standard too.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh you set the standard as well.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Um the um you mentioned you help customers get work.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I I I'm assuming I'm assuming that doesn't mean through the form of business development for them.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming that means through the process of bidding work and and how to how to kind of put your company in a in a position of leverage, in a position in the best position possible for that particular job.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: I saw I've said on sort of this podcast a number of times, you know, the construction industry, particularly in the specialty trades, is is crowded, man.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: It's super competitive.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Primarily because the the barriers to entry generally are pretty low to start a company.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Now, to be a good company, I think the barriers are pretty high.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: So as you look at companies bidding on work, how are you, what are you coaching them on?
25:20
SPEAKER_00: What how are you how are you talking to them about, hey, this is how you pos you should position yourself as a company outside of just bidding based on price?
25:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of these smaller companies, they they they were everything, obviously, right?
25:37
SPEAKER_01: And they picked up their couple of projects for the very minimal overhead.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: And they get to a point where they need to start stepping out of the business to focus more on business development, right?
25:48
SPEAKER_01: And I think that is a major paying point and a challenge for a lot of contractors because they're they're they're they're more in their comfort zone when they're out in the field or in the or in the office estimating work, mainly out in the field.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: So I I I had a client who does a lot of service work and wanted to and wanted to expand their construction side of the business.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: And this particular owner was flat out and said, I want to join associations or I want to go networking events, I don't want to be that the face of the company, although it's my company.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a prop, right?
26:21
SPEAKER_01: Because you can't just hire a business developer, and that person who knows nothing about your business is now the face of your company and is gonna magically, you know, you know, wave a magic wand and start bringing in the work.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: You got to put the work in to get that work to you.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: So when I help contractors get more work, it's more about what does your business development strategy look like?
26:41
SPEAKER_01: And what does a top pursuit look like for your business that aligns with your strengths and your most profitable work?
26:48
SPEAKER_01: Who are the contexts and the people we need to go after to get more aligned with your top pursuits?
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: And that and that's to the core of what I what I outcontractors with.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's also, and you can talk about this a little bit, is also knowing what kind of work you want to do.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah, exactly.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, not just taking.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what do you want to be known for, right?
27:13
SPEAKER_00: You can't be the best at everything, right?
27:16
SPEAKER_00: And in a highly competitive market where pricing is uh is tight, is tight, the only way you're gonna garner any sort of premium and it is through knowing and sticking to the work you want to do.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: But you need to go, and this goes back to cash flow and profit, you need to really get aligned with a good accounting system and an accountant or a CFO or a controller, whatever it may be.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: I I could only imagine uh that mobilization funding really helps with this as well, is really what does the data show?
27:52
SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of contractors think that they would rather go into this type of work because they think that they're more aligned with, but what is the data show?
28:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, what projects are really making you the most amount of money.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: That is a and and honestly, that's where like someone like Patrick can help too.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: And and you got everybody on the podcast will meet Patrick.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh but um I mean, even from mobilization funding standpoint, dude, we can get super creative with customers.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're we're not a one size fits all sort of uh uh product.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: However, we can only get as creative as the data shows.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: And if in it from a financial standpoint, if your financial data doesn't even make sense, right, it's hard for any company and any any loan program to get creative.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of the same with your ability to bid on projects and get creative in that way.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: If you don't know your own data, how do you even know what your starting point is, right?
28:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, listen, Drew, you know, one of the first things I'm gonna ask is what does data show?
28:58
SPEAKER_01: You want to go get a bond?
28:59
SPEAKER_01: The bonding company wants to see what the data shows, right?
29:01
SPEAKER_01: They want to pull money from mobilization funding.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, what does this data show?
29:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: If you want to accelerate in business growth, if you want to grow and scale sustainably, every business partner that you bring in to help you grow is gonna ask for that essential data.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: And just as well as like operational excellence and and sorting sort of uh new business excellence, kind of what you you focus on.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know it's overhead, I know it's back office, but you know, financial discipline and having your your financial house in order is is equally as important because it's just it supports everything that Jerry focuses on.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: So um it's you know, having having all that in tandem is is extremely important.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Um when you is it is there any difference sort of in your approach if you're folk if you come in with a$150 million sub versus a you know$20 million sub?
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Or are the fundamentals the same?
30:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, typically the fundamentals are the same.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I just picked up two clients recently, and they're both$200 plus million dollar a year contractors, and to the core of the work that I do, it's team alignment, right?
30:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, everybody talks about SOPs, SOPs this, SOPs that.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: Like we're in a business that requires so much creativity, you don't want to turn your people to robots, yeah.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like you gotta hire based on competency, you gotta hire based on someone's skills, yeah, and then yeah, of course, there's a way that we should be doing a change or there's a way that we should be submitting a pay requisition every single month that you could put an SOP on, right?
30:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you can't be hiring that.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: You need to build and train competence in your business, and you need to hire properly with a with a good onboarding process, yeah, and you need to set those people up for success.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: And that's where I come in, right?
31:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: I've I'm only laughing because I I've been at mobilization funding for 15 months, call it a year and a half.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: And um, it was about three or four months.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm laughing because this is transferable to any business, right?
31:19
SPEAKER_00: I came in and there was a pro, you know, there was a challenge, an operational challenge that we were having.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: And um, and I outlined to the T a process that our people could follow and that they had to stick by.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: And I went to Scott and I'm like, I got the best process, man.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: I just engineered this thing to a T.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: I solved, like, we're going to freaking Mars, man.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and he looks at it and he's like, What the hell is this dude?
31:44
SPEAKER_00: He's like, This is a people business, man.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: You we don't want machines.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: We do not want machines.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: And uh, and and if you do, another point that I learned there, and I'm sure you teach the same thing, is if you do create a process, maybe don't roll all of it out at once.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Drip it to see if certain parts of the process work and don't.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: Because you're gonna you're gonna create a learning uh cycle there where you're gonna avoid larger pitfalls, right?
32:09
SPEAKER_00: If you fail, you fail quick and you fail cheap.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: And and you know, my advice when you're implementing something new is one, you start with your initial team that's gonna adapt to it the best, and they become your cheerleaders and help you work out the quirks, uh, as I was in many of the companies that I worked for.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: And then from there, you use that team to expand it to another team, to another team, and it becomes, you know, it becomes it it um it it you roll it out faster that way.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: And just the point that I want to make is that when you implement change in a business, you have to understand something that feeling like it's actually working against you and feeling paralyzed is a normal process to change.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: Change six months to a year, and if you're a large company over a year to see the true ROI of it.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: So feeling paralyzed and feeling like because everyone's getting out of their comfort zone, you're breaking old habits, true.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: People aren't gonna be comfortable with that the first couple of weeks, the first couple of months.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna take several months, and that's why you start slow and you slowly expand and you build your cheerleaders out and you let them understand you're gonna feel like we're paralyzed, you're gonna feel like we're moving backwards.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: We got to look long term on this process.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude, I'm a I'm a simple guy and I I take a lot of this stuff and I make sort of these analogies.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you haven't worked out for 20 years, getting up in the morning to work out is super, super painful.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: You know you have to do it.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: Perfect example.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you have to do it.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Those those first those first two weeks are painful.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm getting up at six, going to the gym, I gotta go to work after.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden, after two weeks, you start seeing results and you start feeling better, and it becomes a lot less painful.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden it becomes a habit, right?
34:00
SPEAKER_00: That's the same as an operating model.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's certain changes here that we try to make, and I just do them in kind of one little sector of the company, see if it works.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: And and it's less painful, right?
34:12
SPEAKER_00: But um, anyway.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, Jerry, if there's anything before we get out of here, if there is anything that you could tell our audience right now, uh, or a piece of advice, or just any tidbit at all, what would it be?
34:30
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's a big question.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh this is probably the hardest business in any of any of the businesses out there.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: You can't do this stuff by yourself.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: You need a good team.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: You need to hire a good team.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: If you're really small, your first couple hires are gonna dictate the future in your company very quickly.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: If you're a larger company listening to this, you need to understand that those that you promote and and and those and and the way you treat your people and the culture you have in that business, and the way you the way you nurture those those employee uh relationships is is is gonna mirror how they treat your projects and your customers as well.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: Awesome, Jerry.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: Last thing I want to talk about.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: So you and Patrick Shirney, we're gonna be in us as well.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, we're gonna be hosting a builder to CEO Cash Flow Accelerator Summit May 13th and 14th.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: Link, link is in the bio.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: We're really excited about hosting people here in Tampa at our office here.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, but this is really Jerry and Patrick's uh event.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: Jerry, can you talk a little bit about the event?
35:41
SPEAKER_00: Just kind of outline what expectations and get people hyped up before it because we want to fill this thing out.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, exactly.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: So we want to tap this at 30 contractors.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: We want it to be large enough where there's enough feedback from multiple contractors, but small enough where it's intimate.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have a Zoom call about uh a few weeks before the event, just to start to get to know each other.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have a cocktail hour and a dinner the night before we start the two-day workshop at mobilization farming's office.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: So everyone is gonna start that workshop already knowing each other, very comfortable.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: And then Pat's gonna talk about the seven financial critical numbers that every contractor needs to know to master their cash flow and uh and as he states to become a millionaire profit, um, to become a millionaire contractor.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: And then I'm gonna reverse engineer those numbers on how operations needs to reflect to make those companies uh, I'm sorry, to make those seven numbers successful.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: And of course, not everything's gonna be perfectly aligned, but we're gonna, I'm gonna add as many uh any additional nuggets as well.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna be speaking and doing uh a full-blown cash flow demo with your team.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have uh we're gonna have another our other sponsors and um uh from from Christians group and and and they're gonna talk about the uh the eternals where many contractors could save tons of money on insurance, which is a major topic of discussion in the business.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: And then what better way to wrap it up with a fishing trip uh in Florida, right?
37:07
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna walk away with a solid network, and I'm I'm really pumped.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: We got some really cool people coming.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're we're super excited too.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: So you guys heard it.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: Solid networking with fellow folks in in the industry.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna learn a hell of a lot.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, operational, financial, cash flow, business strategy, the whole nine yards.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be great.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Jerry, thank you so much.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate your time today.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: This has been an awesome podcast.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to see you in May.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: And uh, for the folks out there, thank you for joining the mobilization mindset.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: This is Drew signing it off.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: Have an incredible day.