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Videodrome with Melissa Lozada-Oliva · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: On the Bechde Cast, the questions asked if movies have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: women and them all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or do they have individualism, the patriarchy and fast start
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: changing with the Bechdel.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Cast, Hey Jamie, Yes, I'm gonna try something, Okay, Caitlin,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Long Live the New Flesh Dull Cast. On the Flesh
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Dol Cast, the questions asked, why is there a vagina
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: in my stomach? Someone remix it?
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: We don't have much time there.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: And that's past that, and now.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: We get to we should do that every time we
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: do a body horror movie, is did it pass the
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: fed the flesh do test?
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Is it fleshy enough? I think this movie is gonna
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: be a hard guest, although I honestly, I mean maybe
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: this is me being unwell possible. I was kind of like, wow,
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: I thought there would be more flesh.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: You know, the it takes a while for the flesh
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: to get going, and then it doesn't ramp up quite
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: the way I was remembering. I guess I'll talk about
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: my history. This is the kind of movie I never well,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: yeah I dnt. But like whenever I watch a Croninberg
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: movie or a David Lynch movie or any movie that's
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: just like, it's a weird it's a weird auteur guy.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Most of the time the David's, the David's are out
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: there making weird shit.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Lynch is head or miss for me. David Cronenberg almost
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: never misses. For me, it's it's a whole lot of yes.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: But I always picture my like I was doing it
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: yesterday because Sarah was staying with me, And I always
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: picture my uncle trying to describe a body horror movie,
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: and it really enhances the experience for me. It's like,
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: so there's this.
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: Guy and his television has boobs and he's motive boating it,
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: and I'm supposed to know what the fuck is going
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: on and I don't.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: It's I highly recommend just having an I do the
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: same thing with Black Mirror episodes where he's like, this
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: guy is having sex with his computer in the port.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's bry episode. Internal monologue is watching all
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: of these things in that exact accent.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Also, Uncle Caitlin, Okay, this and this is a show
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: that exists. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, this is our show where we examine movies through
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test and sometimes
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: the Fleshtel test when when needed, when needed, simply as
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: a jumping off point to initiate larger conversations about representation, inclusivity,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: all of that kind of stuff. What is the Bechdel test, though, Jamie.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: Well, the Bechdel Test is a media metric crew I
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: just created, created by queer cartoonists. I understand where the
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: words were getting mixed up. I just wanted to say
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: queer so badly for some reason.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, okay.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: Created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: Wallis Test. A lot of versions of this test. It
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: originally appeared as a joke in an eighties comic anthology
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: called Dikes to Watch Out For, but it's since been
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: adopted as a way to sort of see how gender
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: is treated in movies, which is usually bad. The version
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: of the test we use requires that there'll be two
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: people of a marginalized gender with names who talk to
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: each other about something other than a man for more
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: than two lines of dialogue. That's it, low bar. This
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: movie does pass in a way that I thought was funny.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm glad you paid attention because I didn't as
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: per usually.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: Okay, well, yes it does. But we'll get there because
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: we have to get our guest in here a returning
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: three timer four timer three three.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that means.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: You get a hat. I wish we had hats.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: This means you get a fleshy VHS tape that will
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: mail to you.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: At five. We start promising that we'll get you a jacket,
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: but the jacket never materialized ever comes.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. Anyway. Our guest is a writer. Her
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: newest book, Candelaria, which is about a Guatemalan grandmother at
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: the end of the world and how her granddaughters started
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: it started the apocalypse. It was just released, so you
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: can read it and buy it and do all the
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: things with it now. And you know her from our
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: episodes on is It thirteen? Going on thirty and Spanglish? Right, okay,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: what a legacy.
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: We also made Manhattan.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: No, no, you made that up. We did cover that movie,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: but that was with a different person.
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Anyway, it's Melissa Losanta Leiva.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Hi, welcome back, welcome back. We love her.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: First of all, tell us about your book.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's so good. So tell us about it.
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: Yes, So my book is it is about a guatemal
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: and grandmother at the end of the world over the
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: course of the day, and then it goes back a
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: year later and you see her Guatemalan American loser granddaughters
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: and the ways that they start the end of the world.
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: And there is a fair amount of body horror stuff
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: with the television screens. Cannibal, Unwanted Pregnancies. Yeah, that's my book.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: So we asked you when you're coming on to promote
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: the book, we asked you to send us a list
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: of movies that felt Candelaria adjacent, and you sent Martha,
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: Marcy May, Marlene Prometheus, Videodrome, and Splice. So we are
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: covering Video Drome by mister David Kroneberg himself. What is
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: your connection to Video Drome? When did you first see it?
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: What's your relationship with David?
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: Actually, I've never seen this movie before except to come
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: on this podcast. But my friend Oz Rodriguez, who did
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: Vampires Versus the Bronx cool and he was like, oh,
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: you must love Video Drome And I was like, I
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: don't know, I've never seen that, and he was I
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: think you would really like it because there's a lot
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: of there's like scenes that are similar in my book
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: to Videodrome with TVs and flesh. So I was like,
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: talk about it, that could be fun. And I'm from
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: what I've seen from the clubs I saw of video Drome,
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: the body horror effects are super goofy, and that's that
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: was fun.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I can't wait to read it.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: It's so good. It's the read of the year. I
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: love it. Wow nice, it's so and also it just
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know, it's so I love reading books where
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: I'm like, I know where they are. Yeah, I'm easy.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: I'm easy in that way. It's like I know they're
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: going to college quarter theater while they're just like me.
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: It's so, it's so so good. That's so funny that
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: you haven't that you hadn't seen it before. Yeah. I
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: feel like that comes up pretty frequently, where everyone assumes
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: that everyone's seen every movie on the planet and you're like, no,
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: I guess that me and David Cronenberg just both like
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: the same kind of perverted stuff.
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, it was nice. I wonder why I thought
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: of this. Also, Yeah, Also, I think I feel like
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: I've seen I mean, well, we can talk about it.
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: I feel like movies like an ancestor for a few
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: other horror movies like The Ring, and I.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Was getting strong Ring vibes from this movie because both
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: of them are about you watch a mysterious videotape and
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: then bad things start to happen.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love both of these. I guess that this
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: is just a subgenre that I love. Kitlin, what's your
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: history with video drome? Slash the David Cronenberg Expanding Universe?
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: So I'm not much of a Kronenberg head. I don't
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: mind body horror if I feel like it's there for
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: a reason. But I feel like, at least in videodrome,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what does a vagina in your abdomen that
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: you put VHS tapes into have anything to do with
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: the like corruption caused by the media kind of thing.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know that he knows, and I find that enjoyable.
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: I had no idea what he was doing. It's kind
• 8:48
  Speaker 5: of fun.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: It's so circuitous. It reminded me of like listening to
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: my pediatrician talk about why watching TV is bad for
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: you when I was little, and he's like, and I
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: was like, why is it?
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: He like, it's just it just is definitely not good, right,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: So I don't really know why the body horror is present.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: I know why it is in something like The Fly,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: which I've seen, and I haven't seen that one in
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: a while. I also hadn't seen Video Drum in a
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: really long time. I watched a handful of actually probably
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: only two Kronenberg movies in college, and then I was like,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I don't think this is for me, so I didn't
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: watch any others. But I have a limited experience with Cronenberg.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: But I had seen Video Drome, and I really only
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: remembered the abdomen vagina VCR and the bulging TV that
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: like throbs and is horny, and that's.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: Pretty much it. Love the horny TV.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Jimmie, what's your history with Cronenberg in general? And Video Drome?
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: So I haven't seen I had not seen Video Drum,
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: so I'm not I don't know. I'd like Letterbox users
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: do not come for me. You can like a director
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: and not see every single fucking thing they've made. It scarce.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: I'm so afraid of movie fans anyway.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Scary.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm a David Cronenberg fan. I'd seen I mean,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: i'd seen The Fly, I'd seen Shivers, I'd seen both
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: Crimes of the Futures. I'd seen a movie of his
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: that I don't think people talk about very much, and
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: I just I don't remember if it's good, but I
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: definitely remember being affected by it. Dead Ringers. Have either
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: of you seen that one?
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: Oh it is Uh it's Jeremy Irons and Genevieve Bougold.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know who that is, but they played twin
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: twin kind of collegists. Oh my god, and it's just
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: like the most Cronenburghie thing of all time because they
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: you just start at kind of like you don't need
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: to like go through leap through any hoops to get
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: to where he wants you. To be sure. I love
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: body orror. I don't need a reason for it. Really.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: I do think Cronenberg is so so mommy, like in
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: the way that like where you're like, well, I think
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: that that's where his problems lie. That's my guess. It
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: seems like maybe he has some things to work through
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: and and maybe he hasn't. But it's been fun to watch.
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: I liked Video Drome. I love that it's gross. I
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: love that it's short.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, I do like that.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Love the horny TV. And I think my general opinion
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: is I felt like the back half of the movie
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: moved way slower because I don't care about the James
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: Woods character. I care about all of the women that
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: he's meeting that call him ugly. I liked that part
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: the best, But then you get the horny TV at
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: the end, so you know it's like it's where it's
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: worth it, It's worth the ride.
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: Sure, I was like, why does this guy look so familiar?
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: And I realized he played Hercules and I think he
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: played Hades and her Es. Yes, he modeled his face
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: and did it kind of look.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's the I mean he is the absolute worst
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: as as a person. Yes, yeah, he.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Has horrible politics, just a troll ghoul of a man.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: And I also just hate him as a performer. Him
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: and like Kevin Costner are just if they're in a movie,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: I won't see it because of them. I just hate
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: seeing them on screen.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know which one is Kevin Costner. I can't
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: mix up all I know I like. I mean, obviously
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: no dispacey, but I think I like Kline. I like
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: it's Kevin.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and then of course Kevin lemonnon my Ken Kevin.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: He belongs in He's an actor named Kevin. I'm being ridiculous. No,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: you're not Kevin Klein. Yeah right, Kevin Lemignon. Now we're talking. Yeah, okay, okay,
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: let's talk about Video Drum, the movie by David Cronenberg
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: that came out.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty three. Thank you, you're so welcome. And
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: before we do that, let's take a quick break and
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: then we'll come back and talk about it. We'll be
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: right back, and we're back, and here is the recap
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: for Video Drome. We meet Max Wren. That's James Woods.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: He's the president of a Toronto based TV station, Channel
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: eighty three, which shows kind of anything ranging from softcore
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: porn to violent smut type stuff. And we see him
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: going around wanting to buy various videos to put on
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: his channel. Some of it he feels is too soft
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: and not tacky enough.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: I'm just like, can you do like, could you do
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: this in Canada? Is it a Canada thing? I feel
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: like on American TV this would not fly. I'm not
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, you show snuff movies on TV in Canada.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: I doubt it. I think this is just like it
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: takes place in a world where poor like our easily
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: accessible on television.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: I love, I love a strange and ominous, distant near future.
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: Yea, it's nice.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So this is a Canada where you can
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: show it's not films on TV and James Wood's job
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: is to find the scariest ones.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, and so Max Wren finds a show
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: called video Drome where a woman is being tortured and
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: eventually murdered, and he thinks this is awesome. He thinks
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: this is a great fit for his Channel eighty three,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: and I like with it.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: Once they start saying video drome in this movie, then
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: people are saying video drome at least once a minute,
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: and it's used as a noun, and it's uses an adjectivist,
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: uses a verb. As the movie goes on.
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: I don't hear it at first, and they're like what,
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: and then he's like video drome and then he spells, wait, I.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Have I took a screenshot of one part where I'm like,
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: this is getting ridiculous in a good way, but it
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: was James Wood's like, tell me about my video drome? Problem,
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: and you're like, what are you talking? Like, I really
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: loved it. They talk about it like it's a place.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: At one point it's a brain tumor. Sometimes it's just
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: kind of a general vibe. You just don't really know.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: And by the end, I'm like, I'm no clearer on
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: what was going on with videos.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: It's like what is video drome? But also what isn't
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: video drome?
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: You know?
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: And that's what makes us think.
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so goofy, I love it.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: So this guy Harlan is helping Max pirate video drum
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: and what's going on with him?
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: Is he he keeps calling him patron.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah right, that's kind of his thing. Yes, and he
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: wears interesting shirts and that's kind of all you need
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: to know about. Well, actually no, there's there's a good
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: twist with him.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Later, there is there is They think video Drome is
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: coming from Malaysia, but then they realize it's coming from Pittsburgh.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Shout out to Western Pennsylvania.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I'm like, does Pittsburgh claim this movie?
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: They like, yeah, that's where all the fucked up stuff apens.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: If it's too fucked up for Canada, you gotta go
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: to Pittsburgh. I love Pittsburgh. Shout out the Ketchup Museum.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, of course. Okay. So then Max is a
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: guest on a talk show along with a guy named
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Professor Brian Oblivion.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Great character name, yes, and a.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Woman named Nicky Brand played by Debbie Harry.
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: Debbie Harry, she was this.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: She was I think maybe it's just her general hairstyle.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: When I looked at her first, I was like, is
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: that Michelle Pfeiffer. But I think it was just her
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: hair shape. I love when pop stars are in movies,
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: and this was like a good pop star role because
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: it didn't she didn't need to be amazing.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like when Jennifer Lopez was in the Cell.
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: Oh yes, I love this.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: It's a bizarre one.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like a subcategory pop pop girlies who cannot
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: really act. But if but if cast correctly, it's a
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: fun time.
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Uh okay. So all of these guests on this talk
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: show are talking about erotic media and its effect and
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: influence on society, and it's making me think and we're
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: thinking about it. But Max is horny, and he's like, hey, Nikki,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: you want to go out to dinner?
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: With me, he asks her on air television.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that scene is I think I really liked it.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: It's so bizarre. I had to rewatch that scene several
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: times to be like what, because it's I mean, it's
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: it's interesting that like, we do know say what you
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: will about how women are portrayed in this movie. We
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: will say things about it, but we do know what
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: everyone's job is, and everyone's job is very weird. It's like,
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: and she don't. It's so bizarre because it's in that
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: scene Nikki says the right thing and has the right
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: values and then immediately does the opposite. And I was like, oh,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: I feel kind of seen by that, right, Like I
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: also know what my values are and constantly disobey them
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: right the second I get one percent horny.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: So not to mention, because she's just like, we live
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: in an over stimulated society, and I think that's bad.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: And then he's like, well, what about that red dress
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: you're wearing, you hypocrite, And I'm like, excuse me.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: She's She's like, yeah, the red dress is a bit
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: much like Oh my god. I thought I really appreciated
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: the host of the show. I thought she she was
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: really trying to keep things on.
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: Jack while James woods, Yeah, they're the.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Guest like was being actively sexually harassed, but was like, no,
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: this is cool. And poor poor Rena, she's just trying
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: to keep things. She's she's talking to a dead guy
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: on a videotape, doesn't even know it. Marina is just
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: in it. She's trying to say that sex and violence
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: on television in Canada is not good.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, damn anyway, So they go on the date Max
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: and Nikki and she's like, let's watch porn. It puts
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: me in the mood. And then she puts on Videodrome
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: and despite its violent nature, she really likes it. Cut
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: to them naked and while they're having sex or like,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, hornily canoodling.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: She corn swear to God.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know if he's inside her, but
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: they are canoodling and it's horny.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: So I was I rewatched The Fly recently, and I
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: wonder Jeff Goldbloom's character in The Fly has you know
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: his his mattress is basically on the floor, which makes
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: sense with the character James Wits. I'm like, all these
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: men have beds that are very low to the ground.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: And you would think if he owns a TV station,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: he could do. He has a ford I have.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: He has the budget for it. But I'm just like,
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: what is it with all these bed frameless protagonists.
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: He must Cronenberg, must sleep on the floor himself.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it gets it's something something creative. Juice is Yeah,
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: I used to sleep on a mattress on the floor.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: I feel like that is unfairly gendered.
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: They're like, oh yeah, dead beat god like a series
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: like Plastic Tubs from Mikia.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Ooh.
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: I was like, and that's.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: That's craft, that's elevation. It feels like a very late
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: twenty tens kind of meme of like, ugh, this guy
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: doesn't even have a bed frame. I was like, look,
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: I can't talk. I slept for a full year. There
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: is a mouse that crawled in my bed, and then
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: I had to sleep in the bed with my roommate
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: who I shared a room with.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: That's beautiful.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: The struggle is universal. If you don't have a bed frame,
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: you are seeing yes.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Anyway, back to horny canoodling. Oh god, now Max cannot
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: get video Drome out of his head, and now he
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: wants all of the shows he buys for his TV
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: station to be more scandalous and violent, like videodrome because
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: he's he thinks that's what's next in adult entertainment, and
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: he wants this woman who he works with, Masha, to
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: find out who makes video drome so that he can
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: acquire it legally.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: I guess, okay, Masha, Yeah, awesome character.
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: Why didn't we get more Masha serious? One of the
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: many I like. Again, one of the things that I
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: like about this movie is James Wood's character is a
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: scumbag who sucks, and I feel like Cronenberg loses track
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: of that because he expects us to care about him
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: the whole time, which I didn't. But whenever he encounters
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: a woman, she lets him know that he's a scumbag
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: who isn't as hot as he thinks he is. And
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: I really liked that Masha does it. She's like, yeah,
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: you're a little old for me and Debbie Harry She's like, well,
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: this has been a fun, you know, two time hookup,
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: but I'm moving to Pittsburgh. Fuck you, Like you're just
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: like good, good people should bail on this guy. He's
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: the worst.
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: I also, when you're talking about Cronenberg's mommy problems. I
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: was like, maybe ma Sasha.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, He's like, even my mom doesn't want to hook
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: up with me. Maybe my mom thinks I'm old.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Isn't there a part where he's like, ooh, we
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: could take a shower together? And she's like, how about
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: this hot young waiter who's next to me, I'm going
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: to hit on him instead.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: I loved Masha, I wish yes more, not enough Masha,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: not enough any of the women because I also I
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: also loved Bianca, but we'll.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Get to her, yes. And I liked Bridi too.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Anyway, So Nick and Max are still hooking up, and
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: she tells him that she's going to Pittsburgh to audition
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: for Videodrome, but he doesn't think it's safe. He doesn't
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: want her to do it, and then she deliberately burns
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: herself with a cigarette to show him that she means
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: business or something. I don't know.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know. He's just sort of crown and bringing
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: out that one. That was a fun scene to watch too,
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: because it just keeps cutting between them, and James Woods
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: is like, I don't know, She's like, stop us stop,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: I won't stop up. Cool. Awesome. Good job you guys.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Good job. So the next day, Max meets with Masha
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: again and she's like, look, Video Drum is bad news.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: What you see on the show, the torture, the mutilation,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: the murder, it's not acting. It's real. And then she
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: tells him that a guy named Brian Oblivion is connected
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: to Video Drome in some way, and he's like, oh,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I know him. I was on a talk show with him.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: With him, right, He's like, oh, actually, I was sexually
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: harassing someone while he was talking. So we're basically friends.
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: On a TV screen.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So then Max goes to pay a visit to
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Brian Oblivion, but his whole thing is that he refuses
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: to be in the same room as people. He's only
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: willing to be seen on a TV screen. Or he
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: has his daughter Bianca be his liaison. And then Max
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: is like, okay, well, mention Videodrome to him, and then
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I think he will want to talk to me. Then
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Max's assistant Bridie comes to his house to bring him
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: a videotape, and he's now like hallucinating this like bizarre
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: violent stuff. He has this vision where he assaults Bridey,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: but then it's actually Nikki, but then he actually didn't
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: assault anybody.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: It's we'll come back to that scene that was yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And then she leaves and then he watches the tape
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: and on it is Professor Brian Oblivion telling him about
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: video drome.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: And at this point they're saying video drome about every
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: one seconds?
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: What's video Oh, and the tape is breathing when he
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: puts it in, it starts to breathe.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like pulsing.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: It's great. It's the effects in this movie. I mean
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: it like kind of goes without saying the effects in
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: this movie are absolutely they're cool, wonderful.
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: What did they use? Do you think? Have you?
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: I haven't looked into who does his practical effects, although
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: when I was rewatching The Fly recently, I wonder if
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: it's the same person, because the Fly won an Oscar
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: for special effects because it was whoa so, I mean deserved.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: He really did turn into a fly, if you recall
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: let's see. Indeed, Yes, I think I think it's the
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: same guy, Rick Baker.
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: Everything's so slimy, it's so good.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: It's slimy.
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: It's throbbing, grabbing ballooney.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: Oh wait, no, sorry, he didn't do. He did another
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: movie that I watched recently called rat Boy. Whoa, but
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: that's for another day. I'm having a hard time right now,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: so I'm watching a lot of watching things like rat Boy.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: He's really good. It's essentially Yes, it came out the
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: same year, so I feel like, you know, the.
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: Fly, he was like using the same materials.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Unfortunately, he did Baker do.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: He didn't do Video Drome, Okay, but he did.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: He did. He did Video Drome, Okay, got it. Other
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: things he's done include The Exorcist, he did Rat Boy, awesome.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: He worked on Star Wars. He did the Thriller music
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: video special effects. He did that Freaky Beauty and the
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: beast Ron Pearlman TV show that I love. That was
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: Hamilton yea, yeah, I love that. Oh my god, so good.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: He did Gremlins to the New Batch. Yeah he's got
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: he Oh my god. He did Jim Carrey Grin Okay. Yes,
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: he did the Haunted Mansion two thousand and three, which
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: we just covered. He did the Ring he did Yeah,
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: he did Molificia.
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: So he did the ring and video drum.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: And video drum. It makes you think.
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: It all comes back together. We all go through the
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: abdomen slid together and out Pittsburgh.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: We wear the slits we bore in life. Anyways, not
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: the same guy as the fly. Okay, accomplished guy, And yeah,
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: I hope the answers your questions.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: You Okay. So we're seeing Professor Oblivion talk about video
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: drome and how he started having hallucinations that caused a
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: tumor in his brain, not the other way around, where
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: like a tumor that he had was causing the hallucinations.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: And then he's like, and then when the doctors removed
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: the tumor, it was video drome.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: And then you're like, what, so what is no? No,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: I just thought I figured out what video drum was.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: Now I'm back square.
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: So it's like Hakuna matata. It's it's just a feeling.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: That's like part. I mean, that's what's fun about David
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: Cronenberg's movies is like, very often people are just saying shit,
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: they're just saying whatever. They're just like all right, and
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: then we cut to the to the stomach vagina. You're like, yeah,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: it makes sense.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Okay. So then Nikki shows up in this video and
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: strangles Brian Oblivion and then she's like, we want you Max,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: and then his TV starts throbbing and bulging, and then
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: he makes out with it.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: So then the lady from Blondie is in the television
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: television has boobs. It's horny. You can stick your head
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: in it. I had no fucking clue what was going on?
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Five stars yep, okay. So then Max discovers that Brian
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Oblivion died nearly a year ago, that he helped to
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: create video Drome, but then when he realized what it
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: did to people, he tried to shut it down. But
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Bryan Oblivion's business partners didn't want that, so they murdered him.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: And then Max starts having even more visions. He hallucinates
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: that this huge gap opens up in his abdomen aka
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: his vagina VCR and he shoves his whole hand inside
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: and puts a gun gun in there?
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: What and then that's a I mean, that's a perfect reveal.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: There's that he's just dated a gun. Yeah, awesome.
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: I wonder if it's like the metaphor is like the
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: video tape is just as dangerous?
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: WHOA again?
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: I was like, did I was? It's so funny because
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: you're like the intent who knows.
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it wouldn't be cool if there was a
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: gun in the stomach slit and it's like, yeah, it
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: would be cool, and it was.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: I liked it, but I was like, yeah, menes date
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: violence and destruction.
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: And then it's like we're just smarter than the movie.
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: Probably Yeah, yeah.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: I think it's just just like rick, could we fit
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: a gun in?
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, or like put a videotape in the well
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: what is it called? Now? I just want to say, slit?
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: What was it called? In the video scene in the
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: VCR in.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: The in the you put the video drome in the
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: video drome to watch video drome. As a result video.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Then you start video druming all over the place.
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: But the action is a little bit like fucking.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it feels all very video droum yea. Yes,
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: the more we talk about this movie, the more I
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: like it, unfortunately, and the more I just like it
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: so that a color different flesh doel cast conversation.
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: So I had a great time.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, well glad somebody did. Okay. So then a man
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: named Barry Convex approaches Max and very Convex works for
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: a corporation that makes video video Drum question Mark.
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: And they also when did they were the glasses always
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: are like, I was like, wait, what, how when did
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: we go to a glasses store?
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: So he's like, yeah, my company manufactures and supplies eyeglasses
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: for I think he said like developing nations or third
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: world countries or something like that, and we work with
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: NASA to make like missiles or something I don't know.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: Video drum.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: And also they make video Drum. And Max learns that
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: the videos he has previously where just tests and that
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: they will be launching Videodrome to the public soon. And
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Barry Convex wants to record one of Max's hallucinations and
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: analyze it because he's concerned for Max and what might
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: happen to him. So then they like induce this hallucination
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: and Max has a vision where he's whipping Nikki, but
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: then we pull out to reveal that he's actually whipping
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: a TV set that has Masha on it and she's
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: like feeling the pain of being whipped. And then suddenly
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: he's out of the hallucination or is he? But he's in.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: Bed the drome and that's video drum, classic videodrome moment.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: But he's He's in bed next to Masha, who appears
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: to be dead, so Max calls Harlan to come over
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: and take pictures, but then Masha's body is nowhere to
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: be found, almost as if Max also hallucinated that. So
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: then Max goes to the video lab where they pirate
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: and record video Drome because Max wants to see last
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: night's broadcast. I think he thinks that maybe his hallucination
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: would be video Drome or something. Again don't understand, but
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: he learns that there was no video Drome transmitted last night.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: In fact, there was never a transmission of video Drome
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: because what was happening was Harlan was playing Max pre
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: recorded tapes to get him involved in video Drome. So
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: it's also a recruitment tool, huh. And then Barry Convext
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: shows up again. He's like, yeah, Videodrome is a scum
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: show and only degenerate losers would like it, and that's
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: why we're going to use your TV station to start
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: broadcasting Videodrome to a wide audience.
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: Are they try? So it was like they they're like
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: you like this, We're going to kill you? Or like
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: are we gonna Are they trying to kill the viewers.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, So I didn't quite understand until I consulted scholarly
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: journal Wikipedia. Okay, And I believe Barry Convex's goal is
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: he wants to like put an end to this like
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: media induced cultural decay by.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Giving pediatricians message, right.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: And they're gonna do this by giving brain tumors, like
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: terminal brain tumors to anyone who is so obsessed with
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: sex and violence that they would watch videodrome. So they're
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: liberately killing people who they think are like degenerates by
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: showing them video drome knowing that it will kill them.
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: Like I watch this movie, it did not get that because.
• 36:11
  Speaker 6: It's not very clear whoa which at least is a
• 36:14
  Speaker 6: part of this movie's legacy is that it's I was
• 36:17
  Speaker 6: reading about the production history and like how the first
• 36:19
  Speaker 6: time the original cut of the movie was like under
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: eighty minutes long and you really could not tell what.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: Was going on. And David Kreunenberg, I mean, I really
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: like his interviews. He was like, yeah, I guess I
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: cut the part where you learned that Max works at
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: the TV station. So people got really confused. I do
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: feel I don't know, I don't that also wasn't clear
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: to me on the first viewing. It took me that
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: till the second viewing to like have it come across clearly,
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: which is so bizarre because they're talking about video drome
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: all the time, but because you can't really understand what
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: it is based on how they talk about it, You're like, well,
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: I don't how could I possibly? Maybe my brain is
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: too small.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: No, but no, I think it's it's not super clear.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: It's not clear. And because those guys also, like Barry Convex,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: makes it seem like video drum is awesome until he's like, no,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: it's not. I want to use it to kill people.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: And it's like, but wait.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: What Yeah, yeah, okay, I love it.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: So then the vagina slit VCR thing in Max's abdomen
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: opens up again, and Barry Convex shoves a videotape of something.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's Max's recorded hallucination into it
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: or it's something else, or if it's just video drum.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: What is video drum? Anyway, whatever's on the videotape seems
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: to be telling Max to kill his business partners and
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: give Channel eighty three to Barry. Because Barry wants to
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: use Channel eighty three to broadcast video drum so that
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: people will watch it and die. So then Max reaches
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: into his vagina VCR in his abdomen and pulls out
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: the gun from.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that he stored in there just wasn't ready before
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: it was it was still he still had a gun
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: in the oven or like gun in the oven. Oh no, oh,
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: I knew that was gonna.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Kick Kaylen Wow, I love a pun in the oven. Also,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: so he's like kind of Gregnant with a gun if
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: you think about it.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the gun's name is greg Yeah, Okay.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: So he pulls the greg the gun out, and the
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: gun kind of permanently fuses to his hand, but only sometimes.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's attached to his hand. Sometimes his has a
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: regular hands.
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: It's a normal gun.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: It's really confusing, but I love. I love the reveal
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: when he goes to like the dance show. Shortly afterwards,
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: he's just sitting at a table. He pulls out his
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: gun hand and you're like, yeah, yeah, really really cool.
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: And it's looking like slimy and like it looks like
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: it really hurts.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: I've been enjoying recently whenever I watch a movie and
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: something is like so dramatic but doesn't quite hit for
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: me to just sell say like wow, really cool to
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: the screen. Cool just to take him down a peg,
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: got his ass, got his as Wow, really cool, James
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: Wood gun hand really cool?
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Nice try.
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah I really was watching this like that was awes.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I mean it's a cool effect, it is, Yeah, okay.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: So then Max goes to his own TV station and
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: shoots his business partners with his gun hand, and then
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: he goes to kill Bianca oblivion and she's like, no,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: don't because videodrome is brainwashing you to do this. And
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: video Drum killed Nicki Brand or someone killed Nicki Brand.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: But anyway, she's been dead the whole time, yeah, I think.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: Which is also like, well, then how the hell do
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: we talk about her on the fucking show. She's been
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: dead the whole time? And I video drum you.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Know, yes, okay, And then a TV set reaches out
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: with a fleshy hand and shoots Max, but it doesn't
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: kill him. It just switches the channel away from the
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: video drome. That's you know, kind of controlling his thoughts
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: and movements. And now he's compelled by the idea of
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: death to video Drome Long Live the New.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: Flesh, Yeah, which is what is he saying but also
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: sounds cool, and he says it.
• 41:01
  Speaker 5: Also it's like the first time that they've said it,
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: and there's like ten minutes left and they just.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Keep saying it for the next ten minutes and you're like, oh, yeah,
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: that phrase we know and love and just hear it.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, okay. So then Max goes back to Harlan, who
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: puts this like fleshy throbbing VHS tape into the vagina VCR.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: Cheering, cheering, we love it.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: We're like woo hoo. But his slit eats off Harlan's
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: hand and then Harlan explodes.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: Very teeth two thousand and nine vibes.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Very teeth true.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Then Max goes to Barry Convex's trade show where people
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: are dancing that's what you were talking about, Jamie, and
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Max shoots Barry Convex while he's yelling death to Videodrome,
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: long Live the New Flesh.
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: He gets on the microphone and says it yeah, and
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: then he doesn't mic drup.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: He's like, Okay, whoa what are you saying at that
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: trade show? Is just like, well, this weird thing happened
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: at one point, but other than that, it was a
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: lovely event.
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: I love my new glasses. Yea.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: So he kills Barry Convex, and then Barry Convex's guts
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: and brains are like wriggling their way out of his body.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: And then Max runs off and goes to the harbor
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: and goes into this like condemned ship and inside is
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: another TV set and Nikki brand is on it and
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: she's like, Okay, you damaged videodrome, but you didn't kill it.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: It still exists, and to fully destroy it you have
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: to move on to the next phase Jesus, which means
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: that he has to become the new flesh and get
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: rid of the old flesh aka he has to kill
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: his human body so that he can live inside of
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: a TV or something.
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: Has risen, you know.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: At the end, it was like, Jesus, I.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: Despise this character so much. You are not gonna sell
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: me on a christ allegory at the very end of
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: this damn movie. Nice try, David, I don't think So.
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: He died twice for our sins.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I got I go sins.
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: Oh my god.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: Jesus also famously had a gun in his stomach, so
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: it makes sense.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, So Max realizes what he has to do, which
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: he does. He puts his gun that's fused to his
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: hand up to his head. He says, long Live the
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: New Flesh, and then the movie cuts to black as
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: we hear a gunshot and that's the end of the movie.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: So let's take another quick break and we'll come back
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: to discuss to video drum and then video drum.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Video drum. We're back. It's video drum to video drum.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: You're watching video drum and that's messed up? Or is it?
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: But it is?
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: What if?
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: Is it?
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: What if the Bechdel cast has the same effect on
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: people as video drum and it's like brainwashing.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: It makes them want to kill people.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: Let's hope not. Anyway, where do we start?
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: Oh boy, well, I kind of. I mean, let's let's
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: start by talking about women, as we have been known
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: to do from time to time over the years. Yeah, yeah,
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: I think that, Like it's Cronenberg. I was sort of
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: reviewing the many waves of discourse that has gone around
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: about David Cronenberg's movies because they're so body horror focused,
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: because they're very often body horror focused in a way
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: that feels like explicitly like things are happening to women
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: or it's about women. And there's been a few different ways,
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: like some I think I read some mid twenty tens
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: discourse that argues his entire body of work is inherently misogynists,
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: which I disagree with. But then there's moments where I
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: don't like. I think I just find him confusing enough
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: that I'm maybe overly excusing things. But there's I don't know,
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: as far as videodrome goes, I'm not like offended by
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: anything that is being explored. I just am like, Wow,
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: this guy really has some things to figure out about
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: how he feels about I don't know, I don't know
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: what did What did you all think about? I guess
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: especially like the body horror specifically, and then we can
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: sort of go character by character A stomach vagina, I say, sure.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, I mean we've talked about vagina monsters in
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: a lot of movies, and specifically which horror movies.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: Which he is a huge proponent of, and I think that,
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: like I guess, the closest you can get is with
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: the with the various vagina monsters we've covered. It's like
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: usually a male hoteur that maybe sees a vagina as
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: something very threatening and confusing that wants to destroy, and
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: there's elements of that here, because it's like that is
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: like the thing that you are inserting the tape into
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: very heteronormative body horror in order to like destroy.
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: But then he like uses it. It starts being this
• 46:40
  Speaker 5: like freaky thing and then it becomes him and then
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: the character like accepts it and it's almost good. I
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: don't know, right.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's like by the end of the movie,
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: this movie's so confusing, yeah, because it's like there are
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: certain we've got a variety of slits here. We've gotten
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: the video drome slit and that that is like a
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: source of evil and chaos. But then by the end,
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: the James Woods stomach slit is a source is like
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: what saves him, but also he kills people with it.
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: So you're like, I don't know, I don't know. I
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: think it is safe to say that David Cronenberg's a
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: big fan of the vagina monster. There's I really want
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: to rewatch the Twin Gynecologist movie because there maybe that's
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: a Patreon thing, but it's just bizarre, and like I
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: think part of because I just rewatched The Fly as well,
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: it's interesting that these are Usually it's like the male
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: protagonist that's undergoing the body horror physical transformation, and women
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: suffer as a result of it. Women bear witness to it,
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: but it's mostly like the body horror is their problem.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: It's not something that they are experiencing.
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Like at the end, Nikki's like, you're still changing,
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: and it's like she's talking to like a little sister
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: getting her period or something like there's still you're still
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: becoming like the woman you need to be or I
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: don't know.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: Or like Geena Davis in The Fly, like she's just
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: taking care of Jeff Goldblum as he turns into a fly,
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: showing him compassion and sympathy and like, you know, stuff
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: that good qualities. But it's just like, yeah, this is
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: just her problem. This, Yeah, And I think that that
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: is like an interesting thing to explore. I don't think
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: it's done particularly well in video drum, though, I.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Guess I appreciate that because so much body horror in
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: horror movies is at the expense of women, and it's like,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: look at this woman who is like over fifty, right
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: and or not attractive by traditional Western beauty standards, and
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: therefore she's a hag who is like slimy and rotting,
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: and all the body horror is like right at the
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: expense of her like size and age, and it's just
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: like a very heightened grossness that is attributed to or
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: like connected with or conflated with like an older woman.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: That's what so much of body horror is. So I
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: appreciate that the movie isn't doing that, but I think
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: it's just.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: I think that women are just like sort of incidental
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: to this story in a way that makes it and
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: so I think, like, yeah, having and again this is
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: like very obviously we'd like, I don't want to be
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: overly prescriptive in describing women as inherently connected to vaginas,
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: but it the way that like, it's it's bizarre to
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: see so much vagina specific body horror while most of
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: the women are incidental to the story, right, You're like, yeah,
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: it feels like having it both ways in a way
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: that feels undercooked. I don't know. I feel like there
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: are some directors in their body of work where you
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: can feel kind of an open hostility towards women, and
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: I don't feel that in David Cronenberg's work. I think
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: he just kind of like doesn't understand them well enough
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: to write them.
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: I wonder he seems really like fascinated because I mean,
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: I mean, I feel like I would argue that he's like,
• 50:19
  Speaker 5: I don't know, having the slit is making him like
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: a woman. Again, not saying that having a vagina makes
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: you a woman, but it seems like he's like really
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: fascinated by like female suffering and he's like it must
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: be so hard to have all these holes and like things.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: And things come out of them like igor and I
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: don't understand. Yeah, I think he's like I get the
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: impression that he's like scared of women.
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, which is like good he should be. He
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: should be afraid of us, But like, I don't know,
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: it feels like a curiosity fascination that never I mean really,
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: and even though I'm a fan of his work, he
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: never quite he never gets it. It's so funny because
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: it's like when you watch like a Julia du Cerno movie,
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: she gets it frame one and that's but like I
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: feel like Chroniberg has like spent a lot of his
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: career being like women, what's going on there, what's going
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: on with their bodies? And why he doesn't quite get there.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: But I don't think it's like an offensive or for
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: the most or at least in the space of this movie.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: I just am like, he's just a little all over
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: the place with it. Yeah, and I guess I wish well, actually, Kaitlyn,
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: speaking to your point, Yeah, that, like you see, I
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: always think of the Shining when we talk about like
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: making a woman over fifty just inherently grotesque, the scariest thing.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: The Shining VI Suspiria eighteen Ye just discussed. There's countless examples.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: So so many in a way that feels just like, oh,
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: this is a reflection of the values of who's making it.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: They're like, oh, yeah, well, older woman equals scary, grotesque, nasty.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean you have in with Masha. You
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: do have an older woman in this movie who is
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, she does experience. That's the tricky part, because
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: it's like Masha is just kind of generally a fabulous
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: character and like she is not subject to the kind
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: of like leering cruelty that you would often see older
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: women be subject to.
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: She's almost sextualized also like.
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like she's like a cool, hot, horny older lady.
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: But then as the movie, it's the same thing with
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: the Debbie Hairy character, where it feels like they're being
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: presented pretty non judgmentally, but then they experience suffering later on.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Well, right, so this is what I don't I mean, well,
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: this is what I don't get, and I also don't
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: get everything else. But so every woman you see is
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: brutalized at some point in the movie, either by Max
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Wren actually physically, or it's a part of his hallucination,
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: or maybe it's always him hallucinating but some of it's
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: self inflicted, or is it just Max when hallucinating that
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: because you see various like when Nikki burns herself with
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: a cigarette and or she wants Max to like inflict
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: cutting on her. So I don't know what to make
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: of any of that, because the movie is also asking us.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: The movie is like, hey, let's root for this guy,
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: or at least the movie is following a man who
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: is obsessed with snuff film where women are being brutalized.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: He thinks it's awesome. He hears that it's real, and
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: that women are actually dying. He doesn't deter him. He
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: is like, yeah, more of this and then yeah, you
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: see various scenes where he assaults a woman or hallucinates
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: that he has assaulted a woman.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: But it's like, that's what It's so confusing to me
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: that by the end we're supposed to be like yeah,
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: James Woods, because it felt are we like I don't,
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: I don't know, that's the confusing.
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: Like well, I feel like in like a like another David,
• 54:16
  Speaker 5: the other David Lynch who's like like Twin Peaks, that
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: Bob character is supposed to represent like the evils of man,
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: you know, and I feel like maybe David Cronenberg is
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: like James Woods is like the evils of man.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 54:30
  Speaker 5: I think he's I think he's trying to do like
• 54:32
  Speaker 5: a pro woman thing in this movie, but like in
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: a really goofy way that not necessarily effective, but him
• 54:38
  Speaker 5: being like you see how bad men can be.
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well and that came through. That came through for
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: me at a bunch of points. But yeah, it's I mean,
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: it's whatever. This is just like kind of classic ou
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: tour man director thing where it's like, yeah, this is
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: a pro women movie where all of the women are
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: brutalized and they disappear halfway through the movie. But it
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: is very pro women and I have proof in your
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: like exact whatever. But like, yeah, I mean I don't
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: think that we're supposed to be like cheering for James Woods.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: I think it's just because the movie becomes so narrowly
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: focused on him specifically as the movie goes on, because
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: we get this spread of a lot of interesting characters,
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: but then they're you know whatever, killed off, brutalized, We're
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: dead the whole time, all this confusing stuff And yeah,
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: there are so many which is wild because there's so
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: many interesting women in the space of this story that
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: kind of like get lost. I think Nicky I don't
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: love her arc but she has one, but it's like Masha,
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: she kind of disappears. Bianca like that sort of gets
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: dropped a little bit. I'm like, bring back poor Rena.
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: The host like Bridey is just sort of a witness
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: to violence and keeps showing up for James Woods. Anyways,
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of women in this movie, but they
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: but like they don't have And I liked h with
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: the Bianca character. I liked where you sort of start
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: with her where she's you know, I mean, it turns
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: out she's saying this because her dad has been dead
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: for a year. But she's like, my father and I
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: don't have conversations he has, we have. He does monologues
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: and like examining that and like that father daughter relationship,
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: and you're like, that's interesting. But then it kind of
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: gets dropped as well. I don't know. There was so
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: much interesting stuff presented in this movie, and I think
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: I just was sort of bummed that it ends up
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: zoning in on what it does, because it felt like
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: there was a lot to explore.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: A if it's if the movie is like commentary on
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: you know, the corruption and the moral decay of society
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: that is caused by mass media and like excessive violence
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: and like exploited sexuality on TV, which I was like, Okay,
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: what is that? What Cronenberg trying to say? Like what
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: has he said about this movie and like what his
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: intentions are with it? And I found a quote in
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: an interview where Cronenberg says, quote, it's very hard for
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: me to say what Videodrome is about. In a sense,
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's totally misleading to say it's a criticism
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: of television or that it's an extension of network. I
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: think he's referring to another movie he made called Network
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: of Blood, but I also don't know what he means
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: by that anyway. Back to the quote, I think it's
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: totally misleading to say that it's a criticism of television
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: or that it's an extension of network or something like that.
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: It really is.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Exploring what I've been doing all along, which is to
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: see what happens when people go to extremes in trying
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: to alter their total environment to the point where it
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: comes back and starts to alter their physical selves.
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: Unquote, I think he's referring to them movie Network, which
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: is also about TV.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: I thought that too, maybe right exactly, so that is
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: possibly what he meant as well. In any case, that
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: quote is just as confusing to me as the plot
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: of the movie. So I still don't know quite what
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: he's saying or what his intentions were with Video Drum.
• 58:19
  Speaker 5: He's just like, I just have ideas that I want
• 58:22
  Speaker 5: to floor.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: I just thought horny TV and kind of just like
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: went from there.
• 58:28
  Speaker 5: But because like everyone else left for the day and
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: you're home all alone and you get horny because you
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: want to watch.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: Horn But like, what if that was like a cool,
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: smart movie. Yeah, I don't that's surprising to hear because
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: I felt like that was like what the movie was
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: circling around, which I don't even think, Like I don't
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: even disagree with that message. It feels dated in a
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: way where it's like, I don't know, sex and violence
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: on TV is corrupting our children. Yeah, it's very like
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: Reagan era kind of messaging, and it's interesting seeing it
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: in kind of like an art movie. This like sort
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: of it feels like a very like I don't know,
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: authoritative like this. I remember having to write an essay
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: about why violence on TV was bad for me in
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: the fifth grade in like whatever, the two thousands, and
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: it's like this is just like messaging that's been coming
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: out as forever and it's I mean, it's obviously a
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: more complicated issue than that. I like, yeah, I don't think,
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: you know, young people should watch a shitload of sex
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: and violence on TV, but I think when it's like
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: prescribed to everyone where it's like no one can watch
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: sex and also the fact that and I think that
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: Kronenberg I don't know, maybe he isn't trying to say this,
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: but like conflating sex and violence as like equally damaging
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: images to take in, because those are always the two
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: things that are brought up as like, well, this is
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: what's fucking people up. And you're like, I'm I'm willing
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: to say violence is, yeah, but sex not so much.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: But I don't. I mean, apparently he didn't mean any
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: of that in that way, and so so who I don't.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: Know knows, But I still think, like, you know, he's
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: focused on the extreme of what people might do in
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: response to like being influenced by sex and violence. I
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: keep thinking of the theme song for Family Guy, where
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: she's like fine lanced in movies and sex on TV.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes, we should cover Family Guy on this show.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: Oh okay.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: But I guess he's like criticizing the extreme of what
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: that might do to people. But I also, I don't know,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: I'm just like it feels like a weird Oh you're
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: you're blaming people for being corrupted by media without stopping
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: to think, like, Okay, who is making most of mass media?
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Why are those people making this media? What their values?
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: What do they think is marketable?
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: And the answer is that the Max character is doing
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: though right, like he kind of represents the like curator
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: aspects of like and and this shame like I guess
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: going back to like him not being a character we're
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: rooting for, is that, like he is the one that
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: is curating all of this, like with with no care
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: about like who's going to see it. It's just about
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: profits and keeping the station on air. So I feel
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: like there is like common but again it's it's it
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: gets so muddled that it's confusing.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: Especially by the end, where it's like, right, if he's
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: like an I guess not even an anti hero because
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: we're not, like, I'm not on board with anything he's doing.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: But if the movie is trying to comment on something,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: then why do we keep following his journey? And then
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, he has to destroy video Drone, But
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: it's not because of any conclusion he draws himself. It's
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: because like his brainwashing just got switched over to now
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: Bianca Oblivion is brainwashing him or kind of controlling him
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: or something, and it's all just too I don't know.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: It's just one of those movies where it's like it's
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: it's too experimental. Almost to I actually have like a
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: clear narrative, so it's hard to analyze in any meaningful way.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard to meet the movie where it's at,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: because I have no idea where it's at.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: I know, yeah, I think it's like a part of
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: a League of or just like a string of movies
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: where men are concerned about technology becoming autonomous, and I
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 5: don't know, maybe in a way technology is woman video
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 5: drone right right.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: Well that's like the other thing too, is like yeah
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: woman is machine. Was like, yeah, yeah, okay. We talked
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: a little bit about Nikki. I wanted to go back
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: to her for a second because she's a very confusing character.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: And then you're sort of told like, well, don't worry
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: about how confusing it was because she was dead and
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: so she was a hallucination, so like, don't worry about it.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: The inception effect, yes always yes.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 5: I kind of thought that they knew each other already
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: in like a better call soul way where I was like, oh, there,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 5: they're just.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: I'm confused about like how she could have been dead
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: the whole time if we see her in person so much,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: it's like she was on TV. I'm assuming other people
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: could see her. She couldn't have been in a hallucination way.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 5: She was dead the whole time or when she went
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: to Pittsburgh not.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: Clear anyways, So it is it is the inception effect
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: where you're like, well, can we even talk about this
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: character as a woman if she strictly theoretically exists as
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: the projection of a man? Right? Oh, we don't really know,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: but for the sake of doing it anyways, one thing
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: I did, like, I don't know, and I probably accidental
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: from Cronenberg, but how she like said like, yeah, there
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: is too much sex and violence on TV, and I
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: worry about how it affects people. And then she like
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: immediately bails on anything she was saying the second that
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: she gets horny, and I was like, okay, I've done that, yeah,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: fair enough. But and then like she's you know, into
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: like sato masochistic stuff. Yeah, I feel like, I mean,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: I've seen that presented worse in movies where it's like
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: at very least like in the scenes where it happens,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: there is I I was like, okay, nineteen eighty three,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: like there is like consent involved, Yeah, And she says
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: like this turns me on I want you to do
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: this to me, and so it it. I don't know.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: I think in a way that if that those conversations
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: hadn't happened, it would have been creepy gaulish and the
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: stuff that we see pray frequently.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 5: It's something that she wants.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's something that she asks for and uh, you
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: know whatever, he's happy to do it and that's the business.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: But I don't know, I just wanted to give that
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: little crumb of like, all right, good job movie. Consent,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah took place.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: But I don't know exactly what the movie is saying.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: But it also seems to be conflating like like a
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: sado masochistic kink with corruption, right, yeah, for sure, and
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: that she's doing this because of like she has this
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: kink because she's been corrupted.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 5: In the hypnotizing and oozled right.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: Like it's part of the moral decay of society.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: You can only be kinky if you've watched video drum,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: you're like, well, no, some people are kinky and then
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: they go to work. Yeah. I don't know, again, a
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: mixed bag, but I was surprised at consent being presented
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: at all in a movie from the early eighties true,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: and then we have I mean we've talked about Masha.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: I feel like she's just like a generally under serviced character,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: and then she comes back to be like we she disappears,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: and then she comes back to be abused, and then
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: she's really gone. Bianca, I think, is a really interesting
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: character who is also kind of dropped throughout the movie.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know, Yeah, we just had a lot of
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: interesting beginnings and.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: No follow through. I mean, I guess Bianca comes back
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: around because she's the one who's like, I release you
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: from your control. Videodrome has over you, but now you
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: have to carry out my agenda, right death to Videodrome.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: Long Live the New Flesh, which, like you know, I
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: don't know what that means, but it's a woman in
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: chard but.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: It's active, it's active. Yeah, I mean she's like running
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: her dad's weird business question mark after he dies. I mean,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: she's she definitely moves the platforward quite a bit. But
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: just like like with most of the characters, you're like,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: what is going on with her?
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, despite knowing that her philosophy is long Live
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: the New Flesh, because I don't exactly understand what that
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: means or what her actual values are. I could not
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: like ever get a handle on what she actually wants
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: or what she's trying to do because she's so cryptic
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: in the way she.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: Talks, right, which she takes after her father in that way. Yes,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: but yeah, I mean I think it would have been
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: interesting and again was just given her more to do,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: and like if maybe she had had a different vision
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: for video drum than her father. Wasn't just carrying out
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: his wishes and was like had her own vision. I mean,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: there were so many ways that this movie could have
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: been eaten just as like gross and confusing, and the
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: many women we meet could have been like more meaningfully
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: involved than it had, like moved the plot along in
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: a more interesting way.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: Especially because like all of the I mean videodrome whatever
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: it may be, but when we see it, when it's
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: the version of him watching a videotape or some like
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: broadcast or what he thinks is a broadcast, where it's
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: a naked woman being brutalized, and it's unclear if it
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: is acting, it's unclear if it's actually real. It's unclear
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: if this woman is like consenting to what's happening or
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: if she's not whatever it is, because it's so unclear,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: you just sort of have to maybe guess that she's
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: being tortured against her will and then apparently murdered. And
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: I guess my point is, like, because so much of
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: the violence we see is directed at women, why then
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: do we not see like women try to rise up
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: and fight against this? Or I don't know, it's just like, right,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: everyone seemed I mean, speaking of oblivion, Brian oblivion, everyone
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: just kind of seems oblivious as to what's happening, or
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: like when, for example, when Masha finds out like it's
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: not acting, it's real, why does she not do something
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: to try to stop it?
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: Or yeah, it's it is confused. Yeah, again, it's obviously
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: very different because the time is different and the director
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: is so unique and I like him a lot, but
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: like it reminds me of yeah, like the wave of
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: movies that came out post Me Too from famous male
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: directors that were like, all right, I gotta say something,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: but what am I gonna say? And you're just girls,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: We've been pretty mean to him, right, and like just
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: it's all kind of is like even if the intent
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: is good, which it isn't always necessarily. I think in
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: Cronenberg's case, I don't feel animosity towards women. I just like,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: what do you really have to say?
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: About you know? But that's fine. I don't know. Is
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: there anything else people? I wanted to talk about?
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: Nothing that I can articulate into words because I can't
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: understand what I saw. But fun fact, so I think
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: a couple of years before this, Kronenberg directed a movie
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: called Scanners, which was a box office success, which led
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: him to be offered Return of the Jedi. Wow, people like,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: you should direct Return of the Jedi because Scanners was
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: a hit, and He's like, no, I don't want to
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: direct any material produced by other filmmakers. So he turned
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: it down. But can you imagine what a Kronenberg Return
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: of the Jedi would have been? I cannot. Another fun fact,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: different endings were shot this movie. Yes, I was once
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: again consulting scholarly journal Wikipedia.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I was.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: One of them.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: Was the ending we see in the film, which was
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: apparently James Woods's idea. He's like, what if I shoot
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: myself on the ship?
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 5: So Jeremy strong of him.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Another ending was Max Bianca and Niki appear on the
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: set of Video Drome, and Bianca and Nicky also have
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: the slits in their abdomen, out of which come like
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: mutated sex organs, like they pop out of their slits
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: like that, and that would have been cool. And then
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: another ending featured an orgy where Max, Bianca and Nicki
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: have sex and there's different like I think body horror
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: sex organs that are they're using in the orgy.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: I feel like this is just like a really fun
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: h illustration of how like, yeah, Cronenberg is just like horny.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: He's like, well, here's three different horny endings and we'll
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: just kind of see which one is.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 5: The horn that ended with the ladies. If the ladies
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 5: came back.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: That would be yeah, I mean, that would be closer
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: to what it seems like he wanted to do now
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: that I'm.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 5: Like, if the girls had slits, do you think Cronenberg
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 5: is thinking of it as a vagina or just a slit?
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 5: I wonder if you've never never even occurred to him.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: Oh, that would be embarrassing for him, But I don't.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: I genuinely don't know. I like because all of his interview,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: all the interviews around this as illustrated are baffling and
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: do not support what I thought he was trying to
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 3: say so hilarious.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 5: I don't know, have you seen Brandon cherryfle No, it's
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 5: a show. I think I'm one of three people have
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 5: seen it. But there's a scene where she keeps throwing
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 5: up these cats and because like a witch put a
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 5: curse on her, and I want to stop throwing up
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 5: these cats, like stop it, and she's like, fine, you
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 5: won't throw up any cats. And then she gets a
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 5: slit in her rib cage and it's like this rib
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 5: cage vagina, and she keeps like birthing these little cats,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 5: and then eventually she gets fucked in her rib cage
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 5: vagina with a hand. Oh it's very similar.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: I see.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: I love body horror so much.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 5: I feel like, why would you do that?
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: Stop.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 5: I went to the Medieval Museum and I was like,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 5: oh my god, people are putting boobs on necks. You know,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 5: a slit can go anywhere. I mean, yeah, uh.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: The only other thing I wanted to comment on was
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: and I think these characters are supposed to like represent
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: the like industry and how the values of like the
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: entertainment industry are usually weird because it's run by sis
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: had white men mostly, but it's those guys who are
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: like watching that porn in the beginning that they think
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: is like too soft and innocent, right, just like the
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: way that they're talking about like porn from East Asia
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: and how they can like capitalize on like fetishes and
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. It just like felt icky, but I
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: think it's supposed to be icky, but no one really
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: challenges it in the scene, so I'm not totally sure.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 3: And come back either well, and then you have that
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: like that exchange at the end that also felt very
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: Reagan era where he's like North Americans are too soft, yea,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: And it just felt like they were talking about stuff
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: that supernationalistic people still talk about today of like you know,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: everyone out east is coming for us, and I'm like,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: I don't even know if he was thinking about. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 3: it did feel exactly. And then you're like, and that's
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: why we need to have snuff films in Canada, and
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: you're just like, huh, a little convoluted, a little bizarre,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: but yeah, it just felt like that scene in particular
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: was like so eighties in a way. And I'm not
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: trying to suggest that I think Cronenberg feels that way obviously,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: like the bad guys are the ones saying it. But
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: it was just like, well, what's all this? Then? What
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: is he trying to say? And then in the interviews
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: it seems like he's not sure. He doesn't know, however,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: says that this movie passes the Bechdel test in a
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: fun way to tell me it passes. During the TV
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: broadcast between Rena and Niki Oh right, Rena says, what
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: about it? Nikki? Is it socially positive? And she says, well,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: I think we live in overstimulated times. We crave stimulation
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: for its own sake, We gorge ourselves on it. We
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: always want more, whether it's tactile, emotional, or sexual. And
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: I think that's bad. And that's the exchange the passes.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, James Woods, is there no one is talking
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: to or about him?
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: True, But then right after that, he's like, you hypocrite,
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: You're wearing a red dress, which is like the whole like,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: oh but what was she wearing? Did she was she
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: asking for?
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: It? Is like the.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: Vibes that conversation gives off.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: That's why I thought it was a funny pass because
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: she immediately is hit on and never speaks to a
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 3: woman for the rest of the movie. Again. Right after
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: that exchange.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 5: It is it's so true to life. You can pass
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 5: the Bechdel test in real life and then base yourself is.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: Great relatable yeaheah, Well, what about our nipple scale though,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: the perfect metric on which we write a movie zero
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: Lens like bo.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: But I'll give the movie one vagina slit ooh and
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: interpret that how you will. But what I mean by
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: that is I'll give the movie one nipple because I
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: think there is commentary to be made on the way
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: media influences individuals and society. In fact, that is what
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: our show is. We are commenting on that media influence.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: But this is basically video drum.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: We are video drum. If you were wondering what video
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: drum was the whole time, the answer is it's the
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: Bechdel cast. But I think we usually make sense and
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: present a clear analysis, whereas I don't really know what
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: Cronenberg is saying half the time, and he's often showing
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: a bunch of brutalization of women in a way that
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: I don't really know what his intentions are, and yeah,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: just not really characterizing the women in a way that
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: makes any sense, and not letting them have fully fleshed
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: out stories or really contribute anything to this story aside
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: from and twist they were dead for a long time,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: or twist they were a hallucination, or you know whatever.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: None of it makes sense to me, And I'll give
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: it one nipple and I'll give it to w Harry.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna go two and a half on
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: this one. I agree with you, Caitlin. I think that
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 3: this movie is like kind of like I mean, it's
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 3: visually incredible, but story wise really messy and confusing, and
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 3: it sounds like Cronenberg struggled to get this movie to
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 3: a place where it even sort of made sense, and
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: it still kind of doesn't. But I'm gonna give it
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: two and a half because I like the women that
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 3: we meet. I think that at least the first half
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: of this movie I really enjoyed because you get a
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 3: wide spread of women, they have a widespread of opinions,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: we know what their jobs are, they're cool, it seems
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 3: like the movie respects them. And then in the back
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: half that kind of goes away in a way that
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 3: I found really frustrating, and then tried to end on
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: this like sort of pro woman's sort of anti media
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: message that fell flat because I just feel like the
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: James Woods character is just like so repugnant that I
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: struggled with it. But I think it was like an
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: attempt to say a lot of things. I think I
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: agreed with what he was saying for the most part,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: and I just like David Cronenberg's I'm probably ranking it
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: too high. Two and a half nipples from me. I'm
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: going to give one to Debbie Harry, I'm gonna give
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: one to Masha, and I am going to give one
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: to the waiter that or the half to the waiter
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: that Masha had sex with.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: Melissa.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: How about you.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 5: I think were given three stars, and I think the stars,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, believable. I'm so sorry, the stars
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 5: are over the covering them up because.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: Because because we can't be seeing sex gets too scandalous
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: and it will corrupt us.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 5: All exactly, and we're not in Canada and we can't
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 5: see lude stuff on local access television or whatever. I think, well,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 5: I think I just like I don't know if he's
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 5: like the first guy to like do this, but it
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 5: is interesting seeing like similar imagery like in movies now,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 5: like in Cam or like even in Big Mouth where
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 5: kid gets so like addicted to his phone that the
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 5: phone starts like horny talking to him, and like I
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 5: found it fun for him to. I like seeing him
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 5: like explore these ideas of like like addiction to screen
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 5: and sex and corruption and in like a almost not
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 5: primitive way, but just like in it's like the beginnings
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 5: of someone thinking about this, and it's never like fully
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 5: formed thought, but I'm like, oh yeah, like people are
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 5: still thinking about this and you know, worried about like
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 5: brain damage with screens and horn and that kind of thing.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 5: And I also I really liked the DeBie Hairy character,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 5: the Masha character. It was it's cool to see an
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 5: older woman be be funny and sassy. And I think,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 5: I mean as like fugged up as it is. The
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 5: scene where he's like whipping the screen and she's on
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 5: it is like really a tour interesting. But yeah, I
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 5: mean I think, like I'm like, what if a woman
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 5: did this, I think maybe it would be better.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, it's like and I feel like Cronenberg's work
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: at least paved the way for women's body horror that
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: I like much better. I feel like, without Cronenberg, you
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: probably wouldn't have a Julia du Cernaut down the line.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: So I appreciate it from that because yeah, I just
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 3: feel like because she's.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 5: My favorite, right, Yeah, and I think she's a lot
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 5: more successful and like talking about grand unified theory of
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 5: female pain or whatever or whatever or whatever. So yeah,
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 5: and I watched it and I was like, oh, yeah,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 5: this is kind of a similar to my book, but
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 5: as a woman, a woman a video drum experience, I'm like, oh,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 5: I think I I explored it in a different way,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 5: but you'll have to booth to understand what I mean.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 5: And Okay, so the three nipples go to Debbie Harry
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 5: and oh the girl who wakes him up in the morning,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 5: and it's like, this is your.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: Own oh BRIDI his assistant.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, she was cool, and I'm going to give
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 5: one to the to the chest pussy the amins lit
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 5: she so hard.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: It's our video cassette recorder, more like vagina cassette recorder.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, Melissa, thank you so much for coming back.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: On the show.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 5: Thank you for having me again so fun, oh.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 3: My gosh, and remind us where we can get your
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: book and where we can find you on the internet.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 5: You can get my book wherever they're sold, preferably not Amazon,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 5: local bookstore, bookshop, dot org, eBay. And you can follow
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 5: me at E L L O Melissa on all social
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 5: media platforms.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: O hell, Yes, you can follow us on social media
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: platforms at Bechdel Cast. You can go to our Patreon
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: slash Matreon at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, where
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: you'll get two bonus episodes every single month, plus access
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: to the back catalog of well over one hundred bonus episodes.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can also get our merch at teapublic
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 3: dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. With that, let's pull
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: a gun out of our slits and videodrome.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: Whatt's video drome all the way home.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 5: Boom boom, bye bye