Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 294. The Wearable Revolution: Oura CEO Tom Hale On the Perks Of Data & Why You Should Opt In

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294. The Wearable Revolution: Oura CEO Tom Hale On the Perks Of Data & Why You Should Opt In · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I see a future where everyone makes health a daily
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: practice and they would support that, you know, with insights
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: and advice. You don't think of the doctor in your
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: pocket who's looking out for you maybe, you know, giving
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: a little nudge here and there.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: What's going on everyone, Emily Abadi Here.
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  Speaker 3: You are listening to episode two hundred and ninety four
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  Speaker 3: of Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where I talk to
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  Speaker 3: inspirational people about everything from their highest hies and toughest
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: moments to essential tips on how to live a healthier, happier,
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  Speaker 3: more motivated life. We all go through our fair share
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: of hurdles. My goal through these discussions is to empower
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: you to better navigate yours and move with intention so
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  Speaker 3: that you can stride towards your own big potential and
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: of course.
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  Speaker 2: Have fun along the way.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: For today's conversation, I'm really amped to be bringing you
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  Speaker 3: my chat with Tom Hale.
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  Speaker 2: He's the CEO of AURA.
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  Speaker 3: I cannot even do this justice how many messages I
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  Speaker 3: get on the regular talking about wearables, asking me, what's
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: the deal with the ring that you're wearing? Why did
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: you make the switch from whoop? What is it that
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: you're looking to collect? From wearing this thing. What data
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  Speaker 3: do you find helpful? Do you find that it impacts
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  Speaker 3: your sleep? I could go on forever. The lowdown on
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: my relationship with wearables is that I've probably been wearing
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: some sort of a wearable since wearables became a thing.
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  Speaker 3: In my many lives as a multi hyphenate, especially as
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: an editor in the health and wellness space, I was
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: constantly trying the newest and greatest, so whether that be
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: the original Nike fuel Band, I had a custom Rose
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  Speaker 3: Gold one two Carmen's and the Apple Watch every iteration
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: to a whoop that I wore consistently for about three
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: or four years. And now I'm regularly wearing an Aura
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  Speaker 3: ring every day and I wear an Apple Watch during
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  Speaker 3: my days as well as a Garmin to run.
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  Speaker 2: I've tried chorus. I mean, the list goes on.
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  Speaker 3: And that's why I was so amped to sit down
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  Speaker 3: with Tom. Not only is his story really interesting what
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  Speaker 3: he was doing and dealing with before he became the
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  Speaker 3: CEO of this massive technology company, but also his insights
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  Speaker 3: into the category are unrivaled. It reminds me, understandably so
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: of the conversation I had with Will Ahmed many years ago,
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  Speaker 3: who is the founder of whoop. There's so much useful
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: information in this episode what can be helpful versus hurtful
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  Speaker 3: when it comes to wearables. I appreciate that he does
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  Speaker 3: talk about it pretty democratically, and that, of course he
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: wants me to get in on the AURA game. He
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: wants people to wear aura, but he talks about how
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  Speaker 3: wearables can impact your life period. We also talk about
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  Speaker 3: the significance of wearing something on your finger versus perhaps
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  Speaker 3: on your wrist or somewhere else on your body, and
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  Speaker 3: dive into what we can expect from the category moving forward.
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  Speaker 3: I cannot believe this, but there's likely a day that
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: many people will have something implanted in their body, which
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  Speaker 3: is absolutely wild. Nevertheless, I love this conversation. I'm so
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  Speaker 3: happy that it now has a space living here in
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: the feed.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: And I hope that you love it too.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: Make sure you're following along with Hurdle over on social
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: It's at middle podcast. I am over at Emily a Body,
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: and I'm asking you a favor in this week's installment
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: of the weekly Hurdle newsletter. You know it comes out
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: every single Friday morning, so much of the same stuff
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: you love about the show directly in your inbox, and
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: I would love for you to not make.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Sure you're subscribed. It's absolutely free.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: The link to do that is in the show notes,
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: but head over there to the substack and leave your
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: thoughts answer the questions I'm asking. Would help me so
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: so much. That's it for now. With that, let's get
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: to it. Let's get to hurdling. Today, I'm sitting down
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  Speaker 3: with Tom Hale. He's the CEO of Aura. How are
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: you doing today?
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  Speaker 1: I'm doing great, Emily, Thanks for having me on the show.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for making the time.
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  Speaker 3: You're a busy man, one that's hard to track down,
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  Speaker 3: but one that I've been looking forward to sitting down
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  Speaker 3: with for some time now.
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  Speaker 1: I'm excited to be here, ready to answer all your questions.
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  Speaker 3: All of the questions well before we jump headfirst into
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: a sea of questions when it comes to wearables, I
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  Speaker 3: feel like this is a topic that has been many
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: messages about in my DMS and in my for some
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: time now. But before we do that, I do want
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  Speaker 3: to hear a little bit about you, Tom. You haven't
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: been with the company for super long, so give us
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: some insight into your journey and what attracted you to
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: joining the team over at Aura.
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  Speaker 1: You know, it's a great question. So just I have
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: been with the company now just about two years, and
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: in fact, in about thirteen days, it'll be two years
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: to the calendar date, so it's been two years. Maybe
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like a long time, but for me,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: it seems like a lot has happened in that time.
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  Speaker 1: How I got to the company is an interesting story.
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  Speaker 1: It's a little bit my hurdle moment. Actually, I know,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I know you like to talk about hurdle moments, so
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: maybe I'll just jump in there. All of twenty twenty
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: one was a challenging call. We had just sold a
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: company and it was in the process of being unsold,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: which is painful, and my family was going through some stress,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: you know, the kids post COVID and being you know,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: just under a lot of pressure. I started losing sleep.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: And frankly, I have been a championship sleeper my entire life.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, like probably world class in terms of my
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: ability to fall asleep and say asleep, But during this
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: period I really started losing sleep. I would wake up
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: and couldn't fall back to sleep. By ha an hard
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: time getting to sleep. And I started researching because the
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: kind of person I am, I want to find you
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: know everything I can about a given subject and to
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: do what I can about it. And I bumped into
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Ora and I started, you know, kind of learning. I
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: hadn't really studied sleep, and I think this is common
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: for a lot of people. They you know, sleep is
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: just this thing you do. No one gives you a
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: manual and how to sleep. No one teaches you. You know,
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  Speaker 1: your mom doesn't teach you how to sleep. Your school
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: teacher doesn't teach you how to sleep. So I didn't
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  Speaker 1: really know very much about it, and I learned a
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: ton and I made some quick changes in my personal
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: sleep hygiene, sort of things that you might expect to
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: be pretty obvious, like don't drink too much coffee or
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: don't drink alcohol before you get to bed, or sleep
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: in a cold roam, or don't stare at scris up
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: until bedtime and don't watch Netflix until one am. All
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: these things, really, you know, kind of added up to
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: changing my sleep paths. And let me tell you what,
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  Speaker 1: it was a game changer for me. It really improved
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: my mood and my energy and my health and how
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: I felt and that my resilience distressed, and all of
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: these things were, you know, an incredible experience. Room was
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: like I call it, walking out of a black and
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: white TV show from the sixties into full color, four K,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: you know, broadcast streaming. It was amazing, and so I
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: at the time was convinced that I had to be
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: involved in this company somehow. And you know, they were
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: doing a CEO search and I suggested to them that
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: they should consider me, and they graciously, they graciously accept
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: my offer, but then said, well, you're not exactly what
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: we're looking for. I said, but I am. I'm a
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: software person by training and someone who was passionate about
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: the space, and I've owned everywhere there is. They said,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: maybe you're right, and I ended up getting the job
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  Speaker 1: and starting. I think it was, you know, early April
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  Speaker 1: twenty twenty two.
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  Speaker 3: I'm curious what made you decide to lean into or
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  Speaker 3: considering the scope of the market from the get go.
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  Speaker 1: You know, it's a really interesting question. I think wearables
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  Speaker 1: are I think a really powerful technology and we're still
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of wearables. You know, I think people
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: most mostly think of wearables as fitness trackers, but the
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: reality is I think wearables have the opportunity to tell
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  Speaker 1: you all sorts of things about your health, to keep
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: you healthy, to change your behavior, to give you information.
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  Speaker 1: We call it giving your body of voice. I just
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: think we're at the beginning of this journey. So that
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  Speaker 1: was one thing that really was appealing to me. Obviously
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: I love the product, That's another reason why I was
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: drawn to it. But then if you think about the
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: product itself, and I see you have one on, so
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I know you know a little bit about what I'm
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  Speaker 1: talking about it it's a real shift in your perspective
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: to think about how you're going to meet every day
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: with your body. And I think for some people it
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: comes naturally, whether you're an athlete or somebody who's always
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: been involved in your health and wellness, maybe you do
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: this naturally. But what you start to notice is not
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: what everybody notices, which is like, Wow, I drank a
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: lot last night, I feel terrible today, or I'm sick.
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  Speaker 1: But what you start to notice is some of those
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  Speaker 1: changes on the margins and the changes that might affect
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: how you approach today or how you might approach someone
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: else given how they're feeling. And it's kind of this
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: like we call it a sixth sense. Almost you get
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: a sixth sense for what your body is really capable
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: of and how your physiology is reacting to all the
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: things that you have to react to. And honestly, it's
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: really it's it's eye opening to see what's possible. So
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: for me, the experience was, Wow, it's a great product.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: It's really interesting. I haven't seen anybody you know, do
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: this with a with a form factor like a ring.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: It's not another digital mouth to feed. It's not asking
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: you to do things. It's just passively monitoring you in
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the background and making sure that you have the information
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: you need to make the best decisions about your help.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Honest and quite quite fundamentally, you know, the software experience
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: was off the charge. So all of these things added
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: up to like, I'm really interested in this company.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know candidly I And I'm sure I'll
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: talk about my experience with wearables in the intro, so
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: I won't go too much into it now with you.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: But I have tried so many things by the nature
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: of my job and of reviewing items for different editorial outlets,
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: and for years from twenty nineteen to probably twenty twenty two,
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: maybe I wore a whoop strap and I loved it.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: I love being able to get the data. I loved
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: all the information. But what it ended up coming down
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: to for me, and the reason that I switched was
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: I was tired of in the summer having inconsistencies with
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: my data because I would take off the whoopstrap because
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: I didn't want a tandline, and then some days I
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: would forge to put it on, some days I would
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: forget where I put it all together, et cetera. And
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: so I said, one day, you know what, I think,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: I'm finally going to try the or ring and see
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: how it feels on my finger.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: And I haven't gone back since.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the comfort and the kind of ease
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: and frictionless kind of approach to just having a ring.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: You know, people who wear jewelry, they don't take their
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: rings off. I mean maybe they do every now and then,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: but by and large, you wear all the time, and
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: I think that really does help. It adds to your
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: point continuous data collection, so that you start to see
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: deviations from your baseline, and that's really what ARA is
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: telling you, like something's either off or wow, you're doing
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: great today.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, over while you're doing great today, which is the
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: goal most days, right, But clearly the reason why we're
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: wearing this is to learn all of the different things
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: that we can do that are within our control, so
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: that you wake up regularly feeling like you're doing good today.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: So tell me before we dive into kind of the
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: science in particulars of wearables, how was it for you
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: when you got started at AURA, because, as you mentioned,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: it was very different than what you were doing previously.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, so it was a huge learning curve
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: and I love learning curbs. Actually, it's probably when I'm
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: most engaged in, you know, being an human being, when
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: your brain has really turned on and there was lots
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: to learn about. It was science or physiology or physics
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: or you know, the notions of how to run a
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: hardware business. And frankly, the good news and the bad
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: news is I was incredibly energized. And I was also
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: I think my readiness score probably dropped about twenty points
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: in my HRV about dead Zegonds, you know, for the
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: first six months there as we were, you know, kind
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: of navigating some interesting times. I think if you remember,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: right around when I joined was the Ukraine War and
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: the stock market kind of went a little sideways, and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: throughout it all, actually Or has been an incredibly strong
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: business and has been growing like a weed. I don't
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: know if this is your perception. I certainly, you know,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: can see the numbers from inside the businesiness to see
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: how successful the product has been. But just experientially, I
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: don't know about you, but you know, I go to
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: like an airport or a bar, and I guarantee you
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: within ten feet to me as someone wearing a horror.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Isn't that wild?
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah? It is, I think, and it's and it wasn't
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: that way. I think, you know, two years ago. I
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: think it's really picked up steam, you know, for a
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: variety of reasons. But I think to what you highlighted,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: which is like the comfort of the form factor, the ease,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: the quality of the data, the continuous data, the insights
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: that are provided, the overall experience for us, just it's great.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I got to hand it to the team. They've done
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: a fantastic job.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so from the get go, one of the most
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: difficult things for you was a little bit of a
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: learning curve, although you did enjoy it, and then also
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: trying to make time for everything probably to do all
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: that learning and also to accommodate for the things that
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: your body actually needed. That the device that you were
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: onboarding was telling you that you were struggling with.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: What do you do in those situations?
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: What gives in a situation where life is feeling really heavy,
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: what do you change or mix up?
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: First? Yeah, it's a great question. I think it's different
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: for everybody. For me, I think sleep was this amazing unlock.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I will say that, you know, I had kids in
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: my thirties, had high pressure jobs, and then you know,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: a career, and the demands on your time from those
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: things are significant, and so if you're going to you
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: know whatever, keep up with your shows, you probably end
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: up watching your show at eleven PM before you go
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: to bed. I really had to be clear that I
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: think I had been sleep deprived and changing that the
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: impact of that was was really profound, and in fact,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: it made me committed through the period of onboarding Aura.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: It made me committed to protecting that and you know,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: to try to get to bed at the you know,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: the earliest hour I thought I could recently do it,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: and the prioritize sleep over other things. You know, I
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: probably am not as caught up on all my Netflix
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: shows as I would like to be. You know, I'm
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: more committed to it and to be intentional about how
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: how I approached sleep. Now, the flip side of that,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: of course, too is you know, sleep is like a
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: wonderful drug. It affects all these parts of your physiology.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Affects your mood, it affects your energy, it affects your appetite.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: You know, it helps you regulate your appetite. But it
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: also I think gives you energy, which I think in
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: turn enables you to be active. And so that's the
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: other thing that I made a really conscious effort to protect,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: even though I don't always succeed, but to protect activity
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and protect movement, whether that's like walking to work in
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: the mornings and making that part of my regular routine,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: or you know, making sure I have two or three
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: pretty good cardio and weight workouts a week, mostly because
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I think one it's it's really positive for my health,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: but also it's great for stress management. I think lots
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: of people know this. That is a wonderful way to
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: manage stress and kind of work out those those stresses
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: on you. So those are the two things that I
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: really focused on more recently, I've been very focused on
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: diet and nutrition wearing a CGM, and have worn a
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: CGM for quite some time, mostly to sort of understand,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: you know, how my body reacts to certain foods and
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: to make choices that are really intentional about what I
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: eat and what I eat, but how much I eat.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: I definitely want to circle back on this conversation of
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: nutrition and maybe learn a little bit, if you're open
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: to it, about what you've learned from those tweaks and
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: what you're seeing within your data. But before we do that,
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: I think now is a good time to start with
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: the basic question why wear a wearable at all?
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Why should you wear a wearable? I think pretty much
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: it's really important for folks to understand that a wearable
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: is not just a fitness tracker, and I would argue
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: that you should wear an r ring, but I think
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: the reality is that if you wear any kind of wearable,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: you're starting to be more aware of your physiology. More movement,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: more exercise. That is going to be better for you.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I think that's that's a that's a powerful thing. You
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: should move every day you do that, you will be healthier,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: you will live longer. But I think there's a future here,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: and that future is that everybody on the planet who
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: has a smartphone already, they already have a really powerful
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: computing device, should have sensors on their body that are
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: as non intrusive and as comfortable and kind of woven
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: into the fabric of their daily life as much as possible.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: It's collecting data and referring that data to this device,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: and then that can function kind of like a little
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: bit your guardian angel, a little bit your accountability buddy.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: But you know, think of it as like the doctor
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: who instead of seeing your doctor once a year, you've
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: got this person who's looking out for your health every
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: day and not just you know, making a comparison of
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: what you should do and trying to give you some
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: genericized advice that may or may not be right for
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: you based on your age, your health condition, you know,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: what what kind of athlete or not athlete you are,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: or how you're what you're doing in your life, and
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: whether or not you have a chronic illness. Understand all
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: those things and providing you inside and guidance. I just
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: think that is I think that's a really compelling vision.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Now totally many people come to it saying I just
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: want to I just want an activity tractor, and then
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: they learn, particularly with AURA, that there's much more going
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: on than just tracking activity. You know, we talked a
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: lot about sleep already, understanding how you can use sleep.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: It's like a superpower, you know. I think some of
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: the some of the most effective people on the planet
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: have have figured out that sleep is an incredible advantage
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: for them in terms of cognition, in terms of energy,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: in terms of mood, in terms of their impact on
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: the world. I think there's other factors as well. I
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: think there's the factor of you know, how do you
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: want to live your life? You want to live a long,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: healthy life, and I think having a wearable that's like
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: showing you that that some of your behaviors are conducive
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: to living a long, healthy life and some are not.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: One of the classic ones we hear this slot, I'm
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: sure you've purpose too. What's the thing that most often
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: happens after wearing an ora R? People drink less. And
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: the reason why is because they can see the impact
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: of alcohol, which effectively metabolizes into a poison in your body.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: They can see the impact on them. Now, of course,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: we all know about hangovers, but like think about it,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: a glass of wine can really know coum up your
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: ram sleep and that can affect your cognition today in
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: a big way. And so it's a really powerful it's
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: a really powerful kind of insight I think for people
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: to understand what are all the ways that.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: A wearable help Two immediate follow up questions. The first
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: is about something I wrote on for GQ. I believe
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: it was last year or the year before, and that
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: is what we coin to be the no cebo effect,
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: in that you have a wearable, you wake up in
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: the morning and it tells you maybe what you may
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: or may not already know, that you didn't have a
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: good night of sleep. You wake up your you're like, well,
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: today's a wash, Like today is just garbage. I'm not
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: going to try talk to me about the school of
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: thought then, right, because for so many people that's why
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: they might not even be interested in wearing a wearable
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: at all, because maybe you do wake up and you
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: feel okay, but you're wearable is telling you that your garbage.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: So then what happens, you know? I think we all
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: have the moments where we wonder, how how we're going
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: to get through the day based on how we feel.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: And the thing is is that the the metrics that
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: are coming to you through your wearable are you know,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: they're measured metrics. You know, they're telling you something. Whether
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: or not you want to hear it or whether or
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: not you want to act on it, that's really up
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: to you. But you know, I think on the on
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: the whole, the upsides of knowing where you sit and
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: the times that that I think AURA is most compelling
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: is when it gets it right and you're like, you know,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I have been dragging and I'm not sure why, and
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: let me see if I can change the behavior that
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: makes me do that. Or man, I really am stressed
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: and I really ought to do something about that. To
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: relieve that stress, there's a breathing exercise, or to take
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: a minute, you know, walk around outside. It's it's these
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: sort of small interventions that I think are so critical
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: to addressing the pressures of daily life that are building
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: up around you. Now, on a day that you get
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: a piece of feedback that says, hey, you know what,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: maybe maybe today's a day for taking it easy, I
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: think the benefit of that is not that you you know,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: blow off all of your activities or forget to do something,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: or decide not to do something. It's that you're allowing
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: yourself a little bit of grace. And in a funny way,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I actually think this is what or does maybe uh
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: maybe uniquely where where other wearables might be saying, you know,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: come on, get off the couch, you know, get your
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: steps in, let's go. You know, they're kind of they're
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: kind of pushing for you to push it and always
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: be pushing, which, by the way, perfectly acceptable. But but
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: for most people who are not trying to train for
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: a marathon or maybe are not you know, uh, you
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: know super athletes, honestly, like getting through the days is
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: work out enough and so you can give yourself some
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: grace as you navigate your life. Like I actually think
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: that's a really really powerful and valuable thing. And it's
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: a subtle thing and you don't experience it until you
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: have one and you start to realize that this is
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: what it's telling you that like maybe today's a day
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: you know, to not try and to go for it.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: And then then you realize, yeah, this thing really understands
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: how I feel and in fact telling me something I
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: don't know, M and I think I think it's interesting.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, what's your take? Do you
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: have a do you have a view on how how
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: people should be using wearables this way?
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Not necessarily?
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: I think for me, when it comes to the days
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: where you otherwise would feel fine, but you're wearable as
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: telling you that something's off, I do agree with you
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: that that's an opportunity rather than something that should be
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: interpreted as well. The rest of the day is trash, right,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: And so if we then take ownership over our opportunity
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: to interpret the data and in addition think about what
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: happened the day before, then that is where.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: We can really do something positive for ourselves.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: And that also involves accountability and interactivity on the user side, right,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: because if you're not keeping track of the different habits
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: or as you were speaking about how you're really dialing
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: in now on your diet, if you're not remembering or
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: keeping track or logging it within the app what's going on,
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: then you're just going to have data that's not necessarily
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: serving you.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Maybe, so it's up to.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: You to work with the wearable if you want to
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: learn more about yourself so that you can do something
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: with that information going forward.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I think that's spot on, and I think this idea
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that somehow you have to do what you're wearable says.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: I think that's kind of, you know, it kind of
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: misses the market. I do think there is just so
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: much value in being able to see the impact of
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: discrete behaviors or habits and then to recognize that those
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: things are within your control. I mean, look at this way,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: of the things that might kill you over the course
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: of your life that are health related, something like sixty
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: percent of those factors and maybe sixty percent of the
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: fatalities that are a result they are behavioral in nature.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: You know. It's it's the degree to which you sleep.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: It's the degree to which you have a healthy diet.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: It's a degree to which you, you know, keep your
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: body moving and keep your physical health. It's a little
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: bit your emotional wellness and your kind of you know,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: the ability to find balance in your life. It's the
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: social connection and community. These are all the factors that
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: like drive wellness and maybe even ultimately drive your health
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: that if you don't pay attention to what are the
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: results heart attack, the diabeites, You know, those two things
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: are the top two ailers in the world, and they
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: are very much the behavior. Certainly there's genetic factors as
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: well of the things that are really going to affect
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: your health. Behavior is is so powerful and if you
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: can learn how to modify your behavior, and if something
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: helps you do that, then you should absolutely take.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: It back to it. Yeah, I hear you.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: So then the follow up question, the second thing here
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: is what keeps someone wearing a wearable if they feel
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: as though they've learned what they need to learn from it.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Why do we stick with wearing wearables when we've had
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: the experience Okay, I know if I drink X amount,
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to recover well. Or I know that
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: if I eat too close to bed, this is what's
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: going to happen for me. So why keep wearing a
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: wearable at all?
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: So I think this is a really interesting question, particularly
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: for AURA, because the thing that is most surprising to
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: me about AURA is how good the retention is as
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: a metric relative to what we understand to the retention
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: of other wearables. You know, Famously, if you look at
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: the fitbit s one, you know some something like a
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: third of the you know fitbits that people are wearing,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: we're still in, you know, being being used twelve months later.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: I think what what is most compelling for me is
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: to is to have people understand that that their health
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: status and the behaviors that are healthy for them, it's
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: not static. And to understand that while there are some
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: generalized things that help everybody their life and their life circumstances,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: and their genotype and their epigenome and all the things
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: that inform their physiology are uniquely theirs, and so there's
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: somewhat of an unlimited surface of learning to be had
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: because as you go through life, your life condition changes.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Actually it's interesting today we just introduced a new capability,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: which is it's called Pregnancy Insights, so it's live in
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: the app. Now. What it basically does is if you
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: tag pregnancy or you tell the app that you're pregnant,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: it asks you when your due date is, and it's
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a clock of your pregnancy, and it
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: gives you guidance as you moved through each stage of
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: your pregnancy, and sometimes on a daily or weekly basis,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: say this is what you should be expected. You know,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: your your HRV actually probably will will improve during the
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: first sromester and oh, by the way, like you're going
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: to be sleeping less and your temperature is going to
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: go a little bit haywire. Here like being able to
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: set that context for someone that's a very discreete journey,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: and it's very different from all the time beforehand. You
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: know how I know this because for a long time
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: before we introduce this feature, one of the most consistent
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: pieces of feedback was, Hey, when I get pregnant, I
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: just my data goes haywire and it's not meaningful to
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: meeting because I don't I don't, you know, my data's
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: gone crazy, but normally my readiness is high. Now it's tanked.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: What is this? What's going on? How am I supposed
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: to be listening to my body during during pregnancy? Because
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense. So what's really interesting is I
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: think about why you should wear a wearable and why
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: you should keep wearing a wearable is that you have
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: these sort of daily cycles we just talked about. You know,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: you sleep well, you feel good. What did you do
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: during the day, How are you going to you know,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: how how are you meeting your activity goals? Are you
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: feeling health? What's your mood, what's your stress level? All
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: these things are sure your daily activities, but you might
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: also go through a real transition. For women, it's obvious
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: you're in your twenties, you get you know, you turn
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: into your thirties, maybe you trying to conceive. That's a
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: major change women come off of you know, many women
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: you know who have been taking hormonal birth control, they
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: come off birth control in the thirties and like their
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: bodies are changing. Maybe towards the end of the thirties,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: early forties, they get into perimenopause. All sorts of things
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: are changing, and you know maybe in in you know,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: your late forties or so, maybe you go into menopause
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: and then you know your body has changed and your
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: sleep goes crazy and your temperature regulation is crazy, and
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: giving your body a voice through that entire arc. Like
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: that's a reason we're awarreable, because you're getting the benefit
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: of like how did each day go? And should I
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: be healthy? You know, what should I do today? What
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: did I do yesterday? That's really powerful. And by the way,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: sleep is great because guess what everyone does it every night?
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: You know It's like not everyone goes to the gym
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: every day. I don't know about you, but like, you know,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: people don't manage to make it to the gym every day,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: but they do sleep, and so that kind of frequency
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: of usage is so powerful. And then you couple that
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: to the long term benefits of different health journeys. Maybe
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: you get sick. I'll tell you this is a great story.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: We have a lot of people who wear AURA who
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: are managing the chronicles, and I think some of that
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: is because we're good at monitoring your health, but also
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: because I think the tone of the AURA, which is very supportive,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: you know, it suits well for somebody who's managing. We
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: have a lot of those customers. And when you're immuno compromised,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: things like your heart rate variability, your heart rate, your temperature,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: your respiration are really really important biometrics. Why because if
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: you're immuno compromised, even a minor infection is a really
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: big problem most people, you know, whatever, I have a
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: little cold, I got a headache, I feel a little
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: bit bad, I have a twenty four hour food and
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: they play through. But if you've got a chronic disease,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: a small perject and your health is a big deal.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: And so I think again, going back to like this,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: the power of what your health journey is, which is
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: not static. You're not healthy. You know all the time,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: and you know you're going to go through some stages
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: in your life. You need to know what's happening so
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: that you can better manage it, and by the way,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: the people around you can better manage it. We hear
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: this all the time, people who are going through like
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: a course of chemotherapy or recovering from the surgery, having
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: their partner, spouse, friend, whatever, be aware of their physiology,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: aware of their readiness, aware how they're doing it, and
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: then say, hey, listen, you know what, I'm going to
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: give you some grace today. I'm going to you know,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: I'm going to come home early from work and make
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: you dinner. I'm going to pick up the kids from school, whatever.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Whatever it is. That kind of situational awareness about someone
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: else's health, I'm telling you, I think that's a game changer.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you have a really great partner who's
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: super sensitive and aware of your needs, but probably not.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: And by the way, if that person can do it
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: in a really like low effort way without having to like,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: you know, interrogate you or monitor your every move and
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: understand how you're feeling Wow, that's a powerful, powerful cool.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it was interesting.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: I remember during the height of the pandemic having a
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: wearable there would be moments where I would be really
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: concerned about my health because of a reading that unbeknownst
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: to me, like nothing else would have been wrong with me,
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: but all of a sudden, I had maybe a ridiculously
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: low HRV which stands for heartread variability, or I was
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: just trying to figure out what was going on with
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: my body. And there were several times that these readings
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: were significant or the tip off to something happening that
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: I wasn't aware of yet. And so I would say
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: that that's probably when we're talking about it being something
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: that ebbs and flows with you, and that your body
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: is constantly changing. There's always going to be helpful data
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: or helpful things that you can take from a wearable device.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: The question is is what is it that you want
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: to do with that information? And for some do you
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: want to take the ignorance is bliss approach or do
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: you want to actually take ownership of your health moving forward?
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: You know, I think reality is that young people take
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: their health print and you know, they can stay out
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: all night drinking and go to work the next day
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: and feel great. I think that is one of the
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: great advantages of youth. Man, you have your first health crisis,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: whatever form it takes, and you suddenly realize that, like
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: you are not invulnerable, and that, in fact, that there
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: are all sorts of things about your health that are
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: fragile and precious and you want to preserve them, and
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: people change their behavior. What COVID did was put everybody
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: on the planet on notice that their health was fragile,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: and in fact that even something is casual as going
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: to a store and trying to pick up some toilet paper,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: even though we all know it's probably not going to
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: kill you, is a potential vector for you to have
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: a health crisis. And I think that, honestly, I think
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: you're calling out COVID is exactly right. Ora was sort
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: of made famous on the back of a study of
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: seventy thousand people or a ring wearers who recorded and
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: reported whether or not they got COVID or not. And
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: this is a peer reviewed scientific paper. You can you
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: can google it in the second it's called the TEMP
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: predict Study. And what it showed was that your biometrics
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: showed on average two in three quarters days before you
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: had confirmed symptoms or a conferred diagnosis of COVID that
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: you were starting to get SID, which means that for
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: two and three quarter days you were exposing other people
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: around you because you had no idea that you were said,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: that's incredibly powerful, and so, you know, we the NBA
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: kind of ended up using COVID for the bubble and
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: it you know, became sort of a pr thing, but
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: or as a as a product. You know, that's related
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: to kind of keeping you healthy during a pandemic. Point
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: that was, you know, it's a health crisis for the world,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: but a great opportunity for book.
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  Speaker 3: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love
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  Speaker 3: all of the delicious flavors. Obviously, so many of the
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: other wearables worn predominantly on the wrist. What is your
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: stands feedback thoughts on the placement of the device and
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: how it impacts data.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a critical point because if you think about
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: the metrics that we're measuring and the kind of granularity
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: and accuracy with which we hold ourselves to, particularly if
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: we're looking for subtle deviations as soon as possible. And
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: one of the first things to recognize is that it
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: learns you. It learns your body and your metrics, and
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: that way, it ends up understanding what your baseline is,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: and then based on that baseline, it will be able
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: to see deviations deviations and temperature deviations and heart rate
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: variability deviations investing heart rate and be able to give
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: you insights as a result of those deviations, personalized to you.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that's most compelling
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: about AURA is that it doesn't feel like after two
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: months you've heard everything the app has to say to you.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm still surprised by things that surface, you know,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: based on the apps measurement. So okay, it learns your baseline.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: That is maybe such an important and powerful way to
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: understand the basics of AURA. But to do that accurate,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: and to do that with you know, kind of the
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: rigor and quality of data to allow those insights to
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: be meaningful and accurate, you need to be collecting data
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: at the highest accuracy, collecting data from the finger with
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: these kinds of technologies. Polyplesmography is by definition, fifty to
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: one hundred times more accurate than collecting on the risk. Why, Okay,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: when your heart pumps, your blood shoots down your arm
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: and goes right underneath your index finger, and there's an
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: artery there, it's called the Palmer artery, and it passes
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: right underneath the sensors, maybe two to three millimeters away
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: from the sensors on the rank and it's on the
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: leading edge of your pulse, not the trailing edge. So
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: it's arterial flow, not capillary flow or being flow heading
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: back to the heart. And if you think about it,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: the tissue that you're measuring through is uniform, its skin
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: and a little bit of fat. Contrast that to the wrist.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: On the wrist, it's capillary flow. There's lots of tissue
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: around here. There's bone, there's sinew, there's hair, there's discoloration
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: from sun because your hands are always exposed to the sun,
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: whereas the palms are not. Many of these technologies depend
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: on the absorption of light to make a distermination about
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: what the signal that your body is sending. That's the
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: data that they're using, is how your your blood flow
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: or your body is absorbing the light that the shining
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: in your body. That difference in location ends up driving
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: a big, big delta in accuracy. And just to put
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: a fine point on when you go to the hospital,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: where do they clamp a pulse socks sensor and the
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: pulse sensor on the end of your finger And the
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: reason is for exactly the same reason uniform tissue arterial
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: blood flow proximity to the sense. And I think that's
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: a really kind of a key point about RINGS, which
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: is honestly, you know, I think we've always known this
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: and believed it, and it's been really exciting to have
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: science and medicine validate that. If we were to run
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: down the list of all the third party studies, scientific reviews,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: customers who've done tests like AURA and measuring from the
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: finger is an incredibly accurate device, and in fact, it's
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: arguably why doctors and researchers many times we use AURA
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: when they're trying to get a really really accurate reading
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: on something like heart rate or heart rate variability.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: Tom, it is wild to think about how much you
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: have learned over the last two years of being the
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: CEO of this company.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, sometimes I feel like you know, there's so
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: much information in my head. I can't wait to get
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: it all out. But it is amazing to me to
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: think about this sort of intersection of physiology, physics, and technology,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: and it's such a rich and interesting print album. I
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: think for us all, I mean everybody in the industry,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: I know, I tip my hat to them because there's
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: so much stuff that we don't yet even know. Like,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: we've got data on people that is seven years of
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: continuous heart rate data, so call that billions and billions
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: of heartbeats whatever it is. I think we've we've tracked
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: ten billion hours of continuous human behavior. Okay, what are
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: the data and insights that are locked away in that
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: huge data asset. We've barely begun to scratch at the service,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: and I think I think we're going to be learning
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: things about the long term impacts of behavior and environment
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: on our health, you know, for years to come.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, super interesting, super interesting.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: You know, this conversation kind of reminds me a little
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: bit of the conversation that I had with Ali Aradi
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: from Tonal. Both of you just so accomplished in your
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: own ways and clearly working at the forefront of health
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: and technology. One of the questions that I asked him
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: that I want to bring here to the table is
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: who is it that motivate you? So, where do you
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: garner your inspiration from being someone that's at the forefront
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: leading a massive company. I think the last time I
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: heard you cite the amount of employees, it's close to
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: the five hundred person range.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Is that correct?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep, We're getting.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: To where do you garner your inspiration from so that
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: you can show up as a leader.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: I will tell you something. I find the employee base
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: at AURA to be incredibly inspiration and I think partially
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: because everybody at AURA has a really strong sense of mission.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: They believe in what they're doing. They see their role
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: in the world. The way they're going to make it
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: in the universe is to improve the world's health and
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: to help people foster healthy habits that are going to
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: improve health outcomes for them over the course of their life.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: They are motivated and driven by this. They are scientists,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: they are PhDs, their doctors, their technologists, their marketing people.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: They all have this same shared purpose and share vision.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: And I honestly, I feel like every day when I
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: jump out of bed and and you know, rush off
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: to begin work. The energy that I get from the
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: group of people I think is really profound. So that's
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: that's one. I think there's lots of people. Honestly, who
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: who should you know inspire us? I think you know
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: somebody like uh, you know Yvonne shoan Ard, who you know,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: is the founder of Patagonia, and like tried to strike
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: a balance between doing good for a company and doing
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: good for the world, and to use his company as
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: a force for for positive change in the world. People
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: like Mark Bennion, he is famously you know, a fan
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: of having companies don'ate at one percent of their of
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: their revenue and charity just to improve, you know, the
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: world that we live in. We all have to work
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: together to make the world a wonderful place. Doesn't just happen.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: I think about, you know, people like I had Serena
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Williams on the board of a previous company. Boy, you know,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: you want to talk about somebody who knows how to win.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: She is she is a force of nature and and
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: some of that is just about learning and being inspired
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: by the grit tenacity of someone. I'm you know, every
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: day inspired by people like that. Gosha well, you know,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you I was just reading this today Mary Bearra.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: She is the first female Big three auto maker CEO.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: She's been in cars for a long time, but you know,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: she was the one who during COVID made the decision
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: for GM to convert a bunch of its production lines
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: over to making ventilators. And she's just a really powerful
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: kind of leader who thinks, you know, bigger than just
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: like how do you drive performance in a company? She
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: thinks how do you make an impact on the world?
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: And maybe that's that's what I find most inspiring about Aura.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's so interesting, the depth, the breath
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: of the individuals that you just mentioned, the opportunity that
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: we had to draw inspiration from everyone everything around.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Us, if we so choose to do so.
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: Another question that I love to ask people who are
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: in positions like yours is for a book recommendation. I'm
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: sure you've read many of personal betterment, personal development, self
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: health kind of books, but whether it's in that category
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: or not, what's on the top of your must recommend list.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: Well, let's see. I think the first book that I
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: would recommend was one that I read right at the
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: beginning of war, which is called you know the patient,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: We'll see you Now, And it was about this kind
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: of paradigm shift of people taking agency and control over
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: their own health journeys and educating themselves using the Internet,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: and the breakdown of the medical industrial complex from being
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: kind of an ivory tower where this information was not
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: accessible and you needed to get a specialist to tell
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: you something. People are well informed now. And you add
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: that to kind of the power of wearables to give
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: you some insight about your actual biometrics and your health
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: status and all the ways that people can track and
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: improve that. I think it's a game change. So I
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: think that that book really had a big profound impact
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: on me. And then because you asked, I'm reading a book.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: I'm actually rereading this book and it's called How Democracies Die,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: And it's a little bit of a study of totalitarian
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: regimes throughout history and a little bit how did they
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: get there. I think it's important for us today, in
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: this current world that we live in, to really be
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: thoughtful about the role that being a citizen and having
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: a civic concern, you know, plays, And I just think,
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a great read. I would recommend to anybody.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Have you always enjoyed learning?
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Gosh, I think so. I think somehow, I don't know,
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: I got the bug early on, and I guess I
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: was always pretty much a bookish kid, and so books,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: you know, were the place where information resided before the internet. Kids.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you've managed to clock that, but
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: you know, we didn't. We didn't have the internet. The
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: information wasn't served up to so on a platter. And
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: so I think just the process of learning is just
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: so I don't know, I find it really energizing.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: And did you always learn well?
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: I'm basically telling you that it's clear that you learn
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: well because of how much information you have absorbed over
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: the last two years. So I'm just curious that this
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: has always been a skill that you've I.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Don't know if it's well or better than anybody else,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: or worse than anybody else. I just know that for me,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: you know, And maybe this has to do with time.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I just, you know, I put in a lot of
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: time reading stuff and trying to absorb information, and that's
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: probably help.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: I think that that's actually a really good point, right,
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: because so many times we want to have the answers
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: or the information but a lot of individuals won't seek
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: to put in the time to get to where it
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: is that they want to be, And in order to
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: do that, you need to have a really strong why.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: So in this case, anyway, when we're talking about now
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: you being two years in almost to the date of
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: when you started this role with Aura, your strong why
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: was to be at the front of this company and
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: understand the mark that it can make. And so in
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: order to do that, you needed to put in the
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: work to do the learning one hundred percent.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: And the thing is is that it's it's not a
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: static process. You know, every day you have a lot
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: of agency and how you spend your time and what
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: you do with it. So maybe the free advice i'd
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: offered everyone is use that time wise.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: Now, of course, I'm not going to let you escape
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: without circling back to that conversation we were having at
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: the beginning about you dialing in a little bit more
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: on your nutrition. I'm curious not only what that looks like,
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: but what you've learned in that process thus far because
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: of feedback from your or ring.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think the first thing was, and I
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: learned this actually early on, is that sleep is a
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: really powerful regulator of these two hormones, and they're you know,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: many times they're referred to as the hunger and the
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: sayety hormone. Leptin and grellin are the names of the hormone.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: And it turns out that you know, leptin is the
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: one that kind of helps you feel full and grilling
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: is the one that makes you feel hungry, and it's
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: they're intimately tied to sleep. So, for example, when you
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: you know, are not going to bed at the right time,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: and there's a chemical that builds up in your in
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: your body that basically, when it reaches a certain amount,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: it's like you're going to sleep no matter what. It's Basically,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: it rises throughout the day and the ant a certain point,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: you know, melotonin gets kicked off in your body, and
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: this chemical really is what what causes you to go
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: to sleep. If you press past that, your body makes
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: you hungry. And so this whole phenomenon of the late
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: night snack is a thing, and it's a thing that's
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: driven by you know, your biology telling you that if
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: you're not going to get rest, you had better feed
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: this body. And you know, think about it as an
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: evolutionary thing, which is like, how did how did you
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: survive when you were stressed or not getting you know, sleep,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: You survived by making sure you had food. So this
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: idea of the late night snack was a really interesting
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: one because I am, you know, not only great sleeper,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: but I am a great nate lyate time snacker, and
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: I can actually regulate my appetite a little bit better
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: just by sleeping better. And the thing is, it wasn't
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: like I intended to do that. I learned about it
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: and I was working on my sleep, and then I
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: realized I wasn't snacking and I didn't have the urge
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: to snack, and when I finished my dinner, I felt satisfied.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't have like another you desire to kick on something.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: So so that was sort of the first thing. And
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: you know, so improving my sleep improved improved my regulation
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: and my appetite. The second thing was, you know, I
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: started to think a lot about sugar, and I started
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: thinking about sugar primarily through the genesis of alcohol, which
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: you know, sugar is one of the byproducts of alcohol,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: and alcohol misses with a lot of your physiology. The
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: rim sleep being affected by alcohol is It's a well
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: documented and well known fact. So I started getting interested
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: and interested in how do I get higher quality deep
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: and you know, not drinking alcohol turned out to be
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: a really effective way to do that. So I really
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: stopped that, and then I stopped drinking coffee, and I
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: didn't have the urge to drink alcohol to you know,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: modulate the feelings of being amp that I had from
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: drinking and coffee and thinking about thinking about sugar. What
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: I noticed is that I actually slept better as well
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: when I didn't eat a sugary dessert. And I had
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: been moving my meal times a little bit earlier in
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: attempt to kind of you know, as you say, get
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: get the digestion underway and the stress that puts on
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: your body done before you get in bed, so your
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: body can really work on being you know, recovery when
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: you're asleep. So this this idea that I should start
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: looking at sugar, you know, came Well, if you try
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: to see GM, you can see exactly what the impact
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: on your body is from the foods that you eat
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: in terms of sugar in your boot, as I called,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: that's really interesting. And so you take this device and
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: then it's like a little disc maybe about a couple
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: of millimeters thick and a little bit around, and it
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: kind of chunk it. You know, it sort of gets
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: into your body and puts a little tiny filament. You know,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: it doesn't really hurt. Honestly, I was a little anxious
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: at first, but it didn't really hurt, and you know,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: kind of blended into my life. And then I saw
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: what the impact on everything that I put in my
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: body was on my blood shirt. And if anybody's done this,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: they know what I'm talking about. But the first thing
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: that generally happens is you go, oh, that healthy food
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: that I thought was so healthy is really driving my
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: blood sugar. I you know, I used to eat these
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: big mutants and I thought they were so good because
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: they're packaged, you know, so wonderfully healthfully. They looked they
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: looked like they were just going to be great, and
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: they were literally sugar bombs. And by the.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Way, everything everything in our life.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, there's a lot of a lot of
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: people who think that, you know, the nature of the
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: agricultural industrial complex is to add sugar and transfaster to everything,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: because that's what humans will, you know, almost addictively consume
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: and then go rush immediately to the store to buy
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: some more that there's a really strong kind of case
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: for that to be made. Anyway, what I found was
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: I was able to very quickly identify for or five
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: behaviors that were good. You know, taking a little walk
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: after eating at dinner made a big difference. Even if
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: I had bread or pasta or something like that, that
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: would be a blood sugar spike. Learning to you know,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: eat certain foods in combination. So if you eat if
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: you eat eggs and orange juice, the impact of the
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: orange juice is somewhat blunted by the eggs. You know,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: you always want to eat fiber. The more fiber you
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: you consume, the more rapidly sugar can be drawn up
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: from the bloodstream. So all all these behaviors were relatively
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: quick learnings and relatively easy to follow along. You know,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: I did miss I did miss those big newtons. But
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: but you know, it's relatively straightforward. You're like, oh, yeah,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: that's something I should have wanted.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, keeping your eye on the prize, having that why
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: again to why you were putting them down in the
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: first place.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: An or ring, He's got a CGM. Is there anything
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: else that you're tracking?
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Oh? God, so many things. You know. I'm know Brian Johnson,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: but let's just say I think he's been a really
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: interesting case study on all the things that you possibly
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: could track. And I think, you know, I don't think
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: it's necessary that everybody goes to the lengths that Brian
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: Johnson is going to. I think he's certainly pushing the
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: limits and maybe you know, showing some inspiration there. But
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, you can get by by just
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: thinking about are you moving enough, are you getting enough sleep?
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Are you eating well? And are you making sure that
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: you're you know, you're managing stress and trying to stay
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: resilient and building social connections around you that are going
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: to you know, could be conducive to your wellness.
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for those that aren't in the loop. On Brian Johnson,
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: he basically started an endeavor that he aimed to measure
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: I believe it was seventy plus organs of his body
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: and then maximally reverse the quantified biological age of each
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: So this was no small feed to say the least.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely insane.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Absolutely insane, and a lot of work too. And I
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: think I'm glad that somebody is doing it. I think
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: there's probably some really interesting science that that may may
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: come out of that. Certainly, for him, it seems to
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: have have worked. Wonders. I don't know if you put
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: a picture of him recently, but.
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: He looks like a teenager, so you know, I do
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: think longevity is something that you know, is really important
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: to people, obviously, but health span is even more important,
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: and I think increasingly we're going to see measures of
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: your health span be made accessible.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: So back to your question, but like, what are the
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: things that am I measuring? So you know, I recently
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: went through all the DNA testing and blood testing that's
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: sort of available to people literally over the counter. You
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: can kind of go to these websites and order, you know,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: a kit and have it sent to your home, and
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: then you do a tiny little blood sample and put
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: it on a card and you nail it away, and
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: you know, two weeks later, they're telling you that your
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: vitamin D is low and and you're a one CEE,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: which is a measure of likecogenated blood or blood cells
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: in your body. So basically blood sugar can tell you
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: what that percentage is, and that's amazing because you know,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: think about that. You know, you had to get a
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: doctor to give you a you know, a reason to
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: go do a blood test. You can just do it yourself.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: The DNA, you know, talks to you about methylation of
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: your DNA and like how how is your epigenome changing?
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: And there's all sorts of things that people can test now,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: from fool samples to mucus to bloods DNA, and frankly,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: I think early adopters are the people who are using
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: it out understand themselves. But I think it seems sort
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: of obvious that this will be a mainstream thing for
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: people over time.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: I think we're only going to keep learning more ways
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: to learn more things about ourselves, and then that information
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: is going to become more accessible than it's ever been previously.
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: So that teas us up. As we wind down here,
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: what do you think the future is for wearables?
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Tom Wow? The future of wearables, Well, I think it's bright.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: I think, as I said, I see, I see a
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: future where everyone makes health the daily practice, and they
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: would support that, you know, with with insights and advice.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: You know, think of of the doctor in your pocket
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: who's looking out for you maybe, you know giving a
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: little nudge here and there, letting you know how you're doing.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: But I think what, you know, what we'll see for
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: the future is that I can imagine, you know, a
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: world where everybody has some kind of wearable and some
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: kind of app that they're using to you know, to
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: keep abreast of that, and that we start to see
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: maybe combinations of sensors or combinations of data. So you know,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: we're already we're talking about a c GM and an
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: or a ring giving you a perspective on metabolic and
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: heart health. You know, maybe maybe it'll include things like
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: you know, implannable sensors or skin sensors that are looking
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: at some of the you know, secretions that your body
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: provides and looking at an ongoing basis. I think there's
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: been some very interesting work that's been done in flexible
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: warrant sensors include thing differences we take our clothing off,
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: so you know, I do think that the ring has
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: a real advantage clothing off, as you have to be
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: pretty good at bed or want to pretty good a bed.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: I think implantables are going to be pretty interesting, you know, ingestibles,
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: particularly for probably very specific meats states. So already today
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: if you get a new joint, it comes a little
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: sensor in the joint and that's and it sort of
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: monitors for things like inflammation or the function of the
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: joint and you know, infection, and you know all those things.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: You know, they seem pretty far fresh, but they're actually
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: here today. You know, it's wild.
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: I think that a lot of people are going to
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: be walking around chipped, like in ten years from now,
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: and that is just going to become commonplace.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: And that is frightening.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: Like even the small things like going I mean not
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: a wearable but being able to go to Whole foods
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: now and they want you to scan your palm to pay.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm a hold off on that just for now.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know what you mean. And yet, you know,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: as dystopian as being chipped sounds, you know, it seems
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: somewhat inevitable that we will ultimately have interfaces with machines
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: that are there for our benefit, that are going to
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: help us. And you know, I think there's a lot
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: of value in your phone acting as something that knows
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: who you are. I think your ring could know who
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: you are and maybe know in a better way because
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: it's something that you're wearing directly on your body. It's
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: not just something that you point at your face, and
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: you can think about all the use cases there. You know,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: maybe your ring is what you use to unlock your car,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: or to unlock your computer or your phone or your home,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: or to alert your work that you're there, or to
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: you know, provide access to systems that are highly sensitive.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: I think there's all sorts of really interesting applications for
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: a persistently warn computer. I mean, even in our phones.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: As much as as we carry our phones with us,
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: we don't have them on us all the time.
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and to an extent, I mean you're described being
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: a lot of the functionality of like the Apple Watch
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: I wear on my left wrist, right, Like so many
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: of those things. So many things are paid for or
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: it's my entry into something, or it's my you know,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: so many things just via this wearable. So the question
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: is is then, like when does that technology start to
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: transfer into into different areas and perhaps even the ring right?
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, And you know, I think as long as
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: you're in control of it, and you're one of our
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: big beliefs is that you're in control of your own data.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: We do not you know, we do not market or
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: share or reveal your data. And you know women's health
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: has been I think justly sensitive to the importance of
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: keeping that data encrypted and secure. Absolutely, we want to
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: we want to preserve that and to make sure that
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: like you are the sovereign of your data, and you're
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: the sovereign of your identity and and you know there
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: are plenty of bad people who would love to take
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: your identity.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: Not today, everyone, not today. Well, as we wind down here,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: my final question for you Tom right now you talk
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: to us about your hurdle moment before joining the team
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: at AURA, going through a time where you were really
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: struggling with stress, anxiety, not enough sleep. Knowing what you
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: know now, what advice would you offer to yourself that you.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Know, I would say, keep focused on trying to find
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: balance those first few months. Actually, I really connected with
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: our Finnish colleagues companies is half in Finland, who have
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: a really interesting I think you on finding balance, And
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: I think maybe my American self is about like trying
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: to get there and go as far and as fast
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: and as quickly as possible. And I think I would
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: have said to my future self for my past self,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: you know, to learn that balance sooner, and I think
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: that's been It's been a really bad have a lesson
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: for me, not just at work at AURA, but in
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: my life, and it's it's been a really great lesson.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: I think we're honestly Aura the product probably help me
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: find that too.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: Well, So grateful for your time today, Tom. For those
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: that either want to follow along with you or learn
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: more about Ura, give us the details. How can they
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: do that?
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Well? Ora Ring dot com and it's Oh you are
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: a r I n G dot com is a great
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: resource for you to learn about it. We have a
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: blog there which is filled with inspiring stories of customers
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: who have used the product to learn that they were pregnant,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: or to detect that they were sick with COVID, or
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: to to optimize their health or to learn that they
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: were getting sick, to manage manage their lives and a
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: bunch of scientific work. Is there information about the product
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: and the company or a ring dot com if you.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: Want to learn amazing, I'm over on social at emil
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: Body and at Hurdle Podcast Another Hurdle Conquered.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: You