Latest / Beyond Fulfillment Podcast / The Tariff Tangle: Trump, the Courts, and What’s Next for US Supply Chains

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The Tariff Tangle: Trump, the Courts, and What’s Next for US Supply Chains · Beyond Fulfillment Podcast

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:06
  Dave Gulas, Beyond Fulfillment Podcast special edition.
• 0:10
  Back again with my good friend Jim.
• 0:12
  Jim Tompkins.
• 0:13
  Welcome, Jim.
• 0:14
  Thank you, Dave.
• 0:15
  Good, good friend Jim.
• 0:17
  Yeah, okay.
• 0:20
  Yes.
• 0:21
  I've lost count of what episode that this is that we've been doing, but it's, it's a bi weekly fixture now and certainly got a great, great rece and people certainly tune in to, to hear your thoughts on these
• 0:35
  important issues.
• 0:36
  So yeah, thank you once again for, for joining us.
• 0:38
  My pleasure, Dave.
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  All right, so let's jump right into it.
• 0:42
  So one of the most interesting turn of events we've had recently over the last week was the U.S.
• 0:49
  court of International Trade ruling that Trump overstepped his authority in imposing the tariffs.
• 0:58
  So what's going on here?
• 1:01
  Well, yeah, that's, I think that was Wednesday the 28th.
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  And well, it was a crazy day.
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  I got up early on the 28th and I came here and turned on my computer and my Wall Street Journal gets delivered to my computer around 4 in the morning.
• 1:18
  So I read the Wall Street Journal.
• 1:19
  The first thing that caught my mind was that the Wall Street Journal had invented the term taco, where taco stands for Trump always chickens out.
• 1:33
  And it was a very negative piece on him, talking about him whipsawing and backstepping and whiplash and changing his mind and flip flopping.
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  And so that started the day off kind of a negative position on Trump's because Trump always chickens out.
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  I'll never eat a taco again for my life without thinking about the Wall Street Journal article.
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  But then later on in the afternoon, it broke, not on the Journal, but on wire that the U.S.
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  court of International Trade said that Congress is the party that sets tariffs, not the president.
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  And this was directly in opposition with what President Trump and his group said.
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  His group said, according to the Emergency Economics power Act of 1974, that if it was an emergency from an economic perspective, the president could take whatever action is required.
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  Well, President Trump looked at our balance of trade deal deficit, which for the first time ever four years ago went over a trillion dollars.
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  And it's been over a trillion dollars for the last four years.
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  And for last year it was 1.2 trillion.
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  And as President Trump looked at the situation, a $1.2 trillion deficit was really, really, really unacceptable.
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  And it was threatening our economic system and our position in world trade.
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  And so he interpreted the law as saying that he could take emergency action and he could impose tariffs.
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  So that is what he did.
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  Of course, some people took exception to that.
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  And there was an article early this Week on Trump being kind of attacked by small companies that were importing wine and other products.
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  And so they were the ones behind this suit, which the International Trade Court was willing to listen to.
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  And so Trump got beat by the U.S.
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  court of International Trade.
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  It was interesting because the next day Trump got beat again on the exact same case, now not in front of the U.S.
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  court of International Trade, but instead by a federal judge in Washington D.C.
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  and so it was proclaimed on the wire that Trump is losing 2 to 0.
• 4:31
  Well, that wasn't accurate.
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  In fact, two weeks ago, the Florida federal judge ruled on this same case, different parties, but the exact same.
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  Does Trump have the authority to put tariffs on or not?
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  And the judge ruled, yes, he does, because the Emergency Economic Emergency act, and this is an economic emergency.
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  So Trump was well within his rights.
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  And so it said yes.
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  So now I'm not sure exactly.
• 5:07
  And in fact, it's not really known by anyone, I don't think where exactly the US Court of International Trade sits.
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  But we do know a federal court in Washington D.C.
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  said no, and the federal court in Florida said yes.
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  And so what do we do in the United States when we have courts which are of equal status that are in conflict?
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  Well, what the Constitution says is that must go to the Supreme Court.
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  And so the next case that the next thing, once Trump had one for and once against that was at the same level, then he can escalate this going to the Supreme Court.
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  The federal judge in Washington D.C.
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  had this pointed out to him.
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  And so he put a two week stay into the enforcement.
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  So in other words, you had two weeks from May 29th before Trump's tariffs were invalid or for it to be resolved.
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  Well, so the, so obviously this is a win for Trump because now he has one yes and one no, because the other one doesn't know exactly what to do with the no from the US Court of International Trade.
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  And so now it can get to the Supreme Court.
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  And so that is in a way a win, because this now is going to get the issue resolved one way or the other.
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  I of course, don't know what the Supreme Court's going to do, but it's my guess that they're going to say this is the purpose of the Emergency Economic Powers act and that this is an emergency as defined by
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  the President, and therefore he has this power and therefore his tariffs are valid.
• 6:58
  I think that's what's going to happen.
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  Am I certain about that?
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  Absolutely not.
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  I'd say it's about a 60, 40, 60%, the Supreme Court will say that 40%.
• 7:08
  The Supreme Court will say no.
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  The Constitution is clear that tariffs should be done by Congress and therefore Trump has overstepped its bounds.
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  Well, if that happens, what's going to happen?
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  Well, in fact, even meanwhile, while we're going through that two weeks, all of the countries that we are much more friendly with are looking at this now and say, haha, it's not clear if the tariffs are legal or
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  not.
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  However, we know that President Trump believes that he has this authority and we think that if we can give him some support at this time, we're going to get a better deal than if we wait and find out
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  if he officially has this power or not.
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  So let's say Japan comes to us and says, well, we don't know if you have the right to do tariffs or not, but we agree with you that there's some lack of balance here.
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  And so let's agree to this deal.
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  If Japan and the US Agree to a deal, then that's a deal.
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  It doesn't matter what the Supreme Court says.
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  And so when this having this a two week kind of on hold thing, there's countries that are going to want to come and deal because that's an opportunity to show that they are really friends of the United States.
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  They're not hanging around to see if these tariffs are real or not.
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  They're actually taking action.
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  So that's a plus for Trump as well because there's going to get them in a better position.
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  And so then when the Supreme Court rules, Trump is either going to get a yes or he's going to get a no.
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  If he gets a yes, this issue is over.
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  There's no more discussion.
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  If he gets a no, says no, you cannot set tariffs.
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  That is the job of Congress.
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  What Trump will immediately do is he will go after the Trade act of 1974, where the Trade act of 1974 says any president at his discretion can charge up to a 15% tariff for 150 days, no questions asked.
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  And so Trump already has the ability of going up to 15%.
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  Now, he didn't use the Trade act of 1974.
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  He attempted to use the larger Emergency Economics Powers act because in the Emergency Economics Powers act, there was no limit in his mind as to what he could do.
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  But if you go with the Trade act of 1974, it limits it to 15%.
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  Well, Trump wanted to go more than 15% and we saw in some cases went as high as 154, which basically closes the door in international Trade.
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  And he of course, knows that.
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  But what he was saying is, I've already taken my position.
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  So if I have to deal with a 15% tariff for 150 days, that's fine, and then I can do that for 150 days, and when that runs out, I can do it again.
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  And I can do it again.
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  So I can create 15% tariffs.
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  There's no question about that whatsoever.
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  If that.
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  That would be one option he could do.
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  He could limit himself to 15%.
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  That's not putting him in the best negotiating position, but that might be what he does.
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  But another alternative, he can go to Congress and say, hey, guys, we have an issue.
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  Wall Street Journal is calling me Taco, they're calling me that.
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  Trump always chickens out, and that's not good for our country.
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  It's not good for our negotiating position.
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  So what I need is, I need for the Congress to clearly define what is the rule on tariffs.
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  Now, this would not be changing the Constitution.
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  This would just be interpreting the Constitution as the Constitution is now written.
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  You can't say yes or no.
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  It's not a clear black and white thing.
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  And so he could go directly to the Congress and say, don't try to pass any laws, just interpret this for me.
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  That could be an approach he takes.
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  Or alternatively, and this is very clever, if he does this, he can say with his big, beautiful bill that a portion of the big, beautiful bill is income coming from tariffs.
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  If we don't have that income coming from tariffs, the bill that has been passed by the House and is now in the Senate is invalid because we're not going to get the income that's projected in there.
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  And so therefore, what we need to do is we now need Congress to take the same decision again, I want Congress to take the decision that to allow me to do tariffs.
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  Let's put a portion of the big, beautiful bill, a statement that says we're clarifying.
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  Trump has the position to do tariffs and therefore the income that's in the budget from the tariffs and is valid, and therefore we're often ready to go.
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  So there's several paths for Trump to win this one.
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  I don't see any path where he loses.
• 12:28
  I do see a path where maybe it is a little bit awkward.
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  If he does need to drop back and use the Trade act of 1974, that's not as strong because he's limited to 15%, but that's on the tariff part.
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  He can use sanctions, he can do other things.
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  He can.
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  He's still going to win.
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  So a lot of people are going around saying, oh, the sky is falling, all the tariffs are illegal.
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  That's not the case.
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  Trump is going to win on this tariff case, either by the Supreme Court speaking up or by Congress clarifying it over a couple different approaches.
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  So it's a lot of news, but it's only when you really dig into it and really understand what's going to really happen that you find out, say, this is a bump in the road.
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  This is going to encourage people in this two week period to come and deal with Trump.
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  And so Trump's going to have some opportunities, some deals, and that's going to put China back in the hot seat again.
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  And, and so that's why, you know, we are right where we are right now.
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  And I think it's really cool to see how this has played out.
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  I think this, it took me a while to figure out, no one is saying this yet, but as I went through it, I thought, why would Trump not have this figured out?
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  Well, I think he did have it figured out, and I think I've just explained what he had figured out.
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  Okay.
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  All right.
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  And another interesting topic has been the evolution of China's response to the US Tariff policies.
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  So where is this headed?
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  Well, this is, this is interesting.
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  It's kind of like you and I, you know, fighting over some.
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  Is it going to rain tomorrow or not?
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  I mean, you know, so, so China is saying, you guys broke our deal because of the sanctions you put on the AI chips.
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  Well, but the US Is saying, no, no, you guys broke the deal because you didn't ship the rare earth minerals in the amount that you said you would.
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  Well, I believe, number one, China does have a valid position that the sanctions weren't allowed for AI chips.
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  So we kind of broke the deal.
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  But I think the US Also has a deal because China said they were going to ship so much rare earth minerals and they didn't.
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  So, you know, it's kind of a chicken and an egg.
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  And so it's just two guys kind of, you know, sitting on the back porch having a disagreement over, you know, who is the greatest NBA player of all times.
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  I mean, you know, you're never going to solve that issue.
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  But what's interesting is that this has now put more pressure on China because as we discussed a couple weeks ago, there's two options.
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  Trump has two strategies.
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  Strategy one, I want to deal directly with China, get this big problem solved, and then I'll go on and take care of the rest of the countries that's Approach one, approach two.
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  If China is not friendly to us, China does not want to do a deal.
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  What I'm going to do is I'm going to go around and get all of our allies together.
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  We're going to do a deal with all the allies.
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  And now it's going to be the US and allies negotiating with China.
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  And so that's going to give us a much more powerful negotiating position.
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  Z doesn't want to have to deal with all of US allies.
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  He wants to deal with us, naturally.
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  And so now, all of a sudden, this week, it's now being indicated that Z and Trump are going to talk this week.
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  Now, will they talk this week?
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  I don't know.
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  Will they talk next week?
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  Absolutely.
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  If they don't talk this week, they absolutely will talk next week because Trump wants to talk and Z wants to talk.
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  They both want to talk.
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  And so they will be coming to the table.
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  So stay tuned, lots to come.
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  It's going to be a tough negotiation.
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  You know, good negotiators begin the fight before the fight begins.
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  And both Trump is fighting and Z is fighting.
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  So they're both positioning themselves to get the best deal they can.
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  And I think when Trump and Z get together, things are going to happen.
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  Z would lose face in China if he didn't come home with a deal, and Trump would lose face if he didn't come home with a deal.
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  So I do think they're going to speak either this week or next week.
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  And I think good things are going to happen.
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  And that's going to allow Trump to take the upper road on this strategy of bringing to the table a good relationship with China going forward and not having to get the alliance, all our alliance partners together.
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  Okay.
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  And then there's the topic of Trump pushing on these new trade deals with other countries.
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  I mean, is this related?
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  Oh, it's absolutely.
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  It's.
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  When first Z said he didn't want to talk on the phone, he didn't want to meet him live, I thought, well, okay, here comes strategy B.
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  I mean, you remember we talked about the allies working together.
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  I thought Trump is going to double down on getting these other tariffs in place.
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  And so it's now well known that South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, India and the EU are in negotiations.
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  And someone says, well, that's only five countries.
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  No, no, not, not really, because EU is 27 countries.
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  So that's actually 31 countries.
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  And those 31 countries, if you take us South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, India and the EU, that is 55% of the world's GNP.
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  And that is 30% of the US balance of payment, balance of trade deficit.
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  And so Trump is not lining up, you know, going and talking to, you know, what does El Salvador think?
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  No, no, he, he is going after the big boys and Z is going to be seeing that.
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  So if Z was thinking about not getting on the phone this week or next week, he's gonna now move towards that phone because he wants to have that meeting before Trump shows up with Trump and his boy.
• 18:41
  Z versus Trump.
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  Be a good fight.
• 18:44
  Z and Trump and his guys.
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  No, no, no.
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  Z's out of.
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  He's outmatched.
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  He's not going to be able to fight that one.
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  Okay, all right.
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  And we still have a lot of uncertainty as to what's going to happen out there in, in the business landscape.
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  So what should retailers and manufacturers be doing now given all this uncertainty?
• 19:07
  Yeah, the uncertainty is, is 100%, David.
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  I mean, there's, you know, almost every day the stock market's getting whiplash one way or the other.
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  Although I see the, the, the month of May was one of the best months we've had in several years.
• 19:25
  And so I guess the, I guess it's not as bad.
• 19:30
  I guess people like tacos is what I'm, I guess I'm hearing is that they're no longer as sensitive to Trump doing a good job of negotiating by putting forth different positions and really negotiating with quality.
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  But I think for manufacturers and retailers, the first question, question they have to answer is, what does this mean to me?
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  How bad are the tariffs?
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  If we're trading with India, if we're trading with China, if we're going with Vietnam, if we're going.
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  What is going to happen under these different scenarios?
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  Now, no one knows what the answers are, but you can kind of read the tea leaves and get some perception as to what it's going to be.
• 20:16
  You know, it's clear China is going to settle, you know, one thing on automotive and steel and aluminum, but basically they're going to wind up with something between 10 and 20%, which is interesting because that's within the 15%
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  limit that he can do under the Trade act of 1974.
• 20:39
  So it's kind of interesting where that's going to wind up.
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  But what we need to do is we need to do some scenario planning and say, what is the cost costs going to be?
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  And then what's the impact on our bottom line?
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  If we wound up eating that tariff, what's the impact on the bottom line?
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  Then we need to ask the question, okay, if Trump sticks us with these tariffs that we have to pay, he's against inflation, we know that.
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  And so what he's going to do is he's going to roll out some plans to help us with this cost impact.
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  He doesn't want us to increase our prices.
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  And so what he's going to want us to do, to eat it, well, we can't eat it all.
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  And so he's going to say, well, let me eat it with you, and I'm going to reduce your taxes.
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  If you got hit by tariffs, if your tariff cost was between X and Y, we're going to reduce your tax by this.
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  If it's between Y and Z, we're going to reduce your tariff, your income tax by this, or we're going to work with you on regulations and save you money through regulations.
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  And so we are going to work with you.
• 21:38
  We're not going to stick you with the tariffs, so you have to stick the consumer with the tariffs because we don't want the prices to the consumer going up.
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  And so that's, that's not going to happen.
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  Once we understand what the impact is, we can then start figuring out, okay, what do we need to change if we're buying it through Indonesia?
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  And the bottom line is it's going to change the profitability by 0.5%.
• 22:05
  Well, that's okay.
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  It doesn't matter.
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  We can deal with a 0.5% drop in profit coming from Indonesia or Malaysia, one of those countries that's not going to knock us out of the game.
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  But maybe there's other things we can do.
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  What about us buying ahead of the tariff?
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  We know when the tariff is going to take effect.
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  Can we buy ahead and can we use, just in case, inventory?
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  Now, just in case inventory isn't the best deal in town, because you got product sitting in warehouses, that's not going to turn over as much as you would like.
• 22:38
  But it's certainly an option for us to consider.
• 22:42
  How about if we go to our supplier and say to them, hey, this tariff is going to have an impact of 5% on me.
• 22:52
  What if we split that?
• 22:53
  You pay half the tariff and I'll pay half the tariff?
• 22:56
  Because guess what, that guy in China, he wants to sell as bad as we want to buy, and so he's going to be willing to tighten his belt a little bit, or the guy from India or the guy
• 23:07
  from Indonesia, wherever he's from.
• 23:09
  And so talking to the suppliers and getting a deal cut with them is certainly viable.
• 23:17
  There's also the option of going to different countries.
• 23:21
  Hopefully now we have the optionality, so we're not producing everything in one country.
• 23:26
  So the country that has the worst tariff, we will leave them and go to the country that has the better tariff.
• 23:32
  Is there something we can do to modify our product to do tariff engineering?
• 23:39
  You know, if this part right here was not metal, but it was plastic, we then could classify it like this and therefore we could save this.
• 23:49
  And so let's get the tariff engineering guys working on it.
• 23:53
  Another option doesn't necessarily save money, but it delays the tariff.
• 23:58
  Paying is going with bonded warehouses or free trade zones.
• 24:03
  We also need to look more carefully at the first sale rules.
• 24:07
  The first sales rules say, let's say that you, Dave, you buy something from China and then I buy it from you.
• 24:14
  The tariff is your responsibility, not mine, because you're the first trade, the first sale.
• 24:21
  And so you need to pay the tariff and then you sell to me without.
• 24:24
  Well, so I don't have to pay the tariff.
• 24:27
  It comes from you.
• 24:28
  But now what I do need to do is they need to look at my contracts.
• 24:31
  And what does our contract say?
• 24:32
  Does the contract say you have the right to pass on tariffs if they're there?
• 24:36
  Does it say you have the right to put in higher transportation?
• 24:39
  So we really need to study that one.
• 24:41
  But there's certainly an option with us using bonded warehouses, free trade zones and first sale rules where there's some interesting things we can do to delay paying or eliminate paying.
• 24:55
  There's obviously the whole cost cutting thing.
• 24:58
  Really want to get the pencil sharp at this time.
• 25:01
  We want to negotiate our freight rates, we want to look at consolidated shipments.
• 25:05
  And so we want to be smart about how we're dealing with things here.
• 25:09
  And then, okay, now we know we, this is the bottom line.
• 25:12
  This is what we're going to, what it's going to cost us.
• 25:14
  What do we do with that?
• 25:16
  Do we pass it on or do we eat it?
• 25:21
  If we eat it, how else can we make up for that profit differential?
• 25:26
  Or maybe the PR from eating it's going to increase the volume to the point that we don't really take a hit.
• 25:33
  And so let's think real strategically there.
• 25:37
  And if after we've done all those things, then we want to look at, okay, we now have got some of the uncertainty out of the equation, let's really re.
• 25:45
  Globalize, let's redo our supply chain because we now know the new rules.
• 25:50
  And I think this is going to be true by July.
• 25:52
  We should Be working on it now.
• 25:54
  We now knew the new rules.
• 25:55
  Let's, let's go and apply these rules and see what we can do to get ourselves whole again, even after the tariffs are in place.
• 26:04
  If we wind up with tariffs, that hurt us.
• 26:06
  Okay.
• 26:08
  Whole host of options there.
• 26:09
  Appreciate that.
• 26:10
  And so, Jim, this next one might not be fair, but where do you think we're going to be with this whole tariff situation by the end of the summer?
• 26:19
  Oh, yeah, I need to remember when Johnny Carson used to be the great Karnak and put the envelope up to his head and be a fortune teller.
• 26:28
  So you're asking me to be a little bit of a fortune teller here.
• 26:32
  But I think the first option is that Trump is successful across the board in negotiating tariffs.
• 26:43
  That's not likely across the board, but it's likely he's going to have considerable success because he's holding, excuse the phrase, Trump, and so he can play the game.
• 26:56
  And so what's going to happen oftentimes is we're either going to have a really good deal or we're going to be collecting money from tariffs.
• 27:07
  And so, you know, the money goes in different spots, but then Trump will equalize the field.
• 27:12
  So that's one issue.
• 27:14
  There's obviously what you're talking about.
• 27:18
  Pharmaceuticals, we're going to bring it home.
• 27:20
  Semiconductors, we're going to bring it home.
• 27:23
  Advanced materials, energy infrastructure, those are going to be reshored, we will be reshoring.
• 27:32
  And so there will be manufacturing that's coming back.
• 27:34
  There also will be manufacturing that's coming back when we have technology, heavy operations with few headcounts.
• 27:44
  We also will be bringing manufacturing back when we can automate the manufacturing process at an economic level.
• 27:50
  And so that's going to allow us to automate and once again not have lots of people involved.
• 27:58
  There's going to be a lot of redesign of supply chains to make things work better.
• 28:07
  But we also know there's a lot of things that aren't coming back.
• 28:11
  We're not going to bring back toys, we're not going to bring back footwear.
• 28:15
  We're not going to bring back footwear and apparel.
• 28:18
  It's not going to coming.
• 28:20
  We're not going to bring low cost, low wage assembly work back.
• 28:27
  We're not going to do that.
• 28:29
  So there's a significant amount of trade that's going to either stay where it is and have a tariff deal that we like, or it's going to move near shore.
• 28:42
  We're going to move it to Mexico.
• 28:44
  We're going to move it to Canada.
• 28:45
  We will be having, with our alliance with Canada and Mexico, that will be worked out and we will be working again kind of under a USMCA type of environment.
• 28:57
  And Mexico and Canada are going to continue to be our allies given that Trump doesn't tick them off too much in the process.
• 29:05
  But I think that's going to work out well.
• 29:08
  And so we will be doing a lot of those categories, garments, footwear, Christmas stuff, toys, low wage stuff that's going to be done in Latin American countries.
• 29:19
  Certainly Mexico is going to have more than their fair share and I think we're going to come out well.
• 29:25
  So I do believe by the time midterm elections come around, people are going to say, wow, I didn't believe it.
• 29:32
  But this tariff stuff really worked and we are in a good way.
• 29:37
  The stock market is going to go way up.
• 29:40
  Our 401ks are going to be worth what they were again.
• 29:44
  And I think it's going to be the golden age of, of all times for the United States.
• 29:50
  So I'm extremely optimistic.
• 29:55
  I've been wrong on some of these things before, but I'm not going to be wrong on many of these things.
• 30:00
  I believe good times are coming.
• 30:04
  Okay.
• 30:05
  All right.
• 30:05
  And so appreciate the insights on all those topics.
• 30:09
  Final thoughts?
• 30:10
  If companies out there still need assistance, they're still in the middle of trying to input optionality within their supply chain.
• 30:20
  You want to just talk about Tompkins Ventures for a quick minute and how that could potentially be a resource for them?
• 30:27
  Well, the, the front door is what we call Shore Finder and Shore Finder is a thing that lets you go in.
• 30:32
  It's a software package, lets you go in and put your products in and, and it'll come back and tell you what your taxes are, what your tariffs are going to be, what your transportation cost will be.
• 30:44
  And let's say here's some alternative countries you can look at.
• 30:47
  So Shore Finder is a really interesting outreach.
• 30:52
  I think we may be moving into a position where we will be giving that tool away.
• 30:59
  Right now there's still a fee for it, but there's a lot of discussion about companies needing help and we can do it with this tool.
• 31:09
  And so we are looking at how we can make that work and make the tool available.
• 31:17
  And I'm dedicated to make that happen.
• 31:19
  I think it's really important that we do that for the country.
• 31:23
  So that's a very cool way to start.
• 31:26
  And then that leads into the very hardcore procurement.
• 31:30
  We've got procurement around the world in all the major markets.
• 31:35
  And so we just got a huge new relationship in India that we didn't have that we're really excited about.
• 31:44
  We're strong everywhere else.
• 31:45
  And so we can, we can help with the procurement and then the transportation and then the third party logistics and make the whole thing move.
• 31:52
  We've got the technology to support it.
• 31:54
  So we, we've been really looking forward to this issue getting resolved and it's in our best interest for the issue to be resolved.
• 32:05
  And so we're pushing on that, of course, with all of our might.
• 32:09
  And that's why we're looking at shore finder fees and getting people really moving in the right direction.
• 32:15
  Because right now there's a lot of companies that are still sitting there saying, yeah, but I'm uncertain.
• 32:20
  Well, I know you're uncertain, but begin the planning.
• 32:23
  Don't spend any money.
• 32:24
  No, any, no big money at least.
• 32:25
  But you really need to get started because when this thing happens, I mean, I kind of like it.
• 32:30
  There's, there's people sitting on the bank of the river and they got their bamboo pole out there and they're fishing and ain't catching much because there's too much uncertainty.
• 32:42
  There's not a lot of water.
• 32:43
  But what's happening is the dam is getting fuller and fuller and fuller and full and full of water.
• 32:49
  And what's going to happen someday, I think late June, July, the dam is going to break and we're going to let a gully full of water come forward and the guy that's sitting there on the bank with his
• 33:04
  pole, he going to get washed away.
• 33:05
  He can be gone.
• 33:07
  But the guys that have the net out there, man, are they going to catch a lot of fish.
• 33:13
  And so what we want to do is we want to help successful companies get that net out there and really be successful when this thing wide open.
• 33:22
  And I think it's going to happen.
• 33:23
  So, yeah, great times ahead and we can, we can help that.
• 33:27
  We believe that we have the net.
• 33:30
  We know what the net is and we want to deploy it and hope folks give us a call.
• 33:36
  All right, Appreciate that.
• 33:39
  Thanks as always, Jim, for the insights.
• 33:40
  Till next time, have a fantastic day.
• 33:43
  Thanks, Dave.
• 33:44
  Good seeing you.