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What I've Learnt - Paul Bangay · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: For 30 years, Paul Bangay has fulfilled his clients' aspirations for gardens that are expressive of the timeless elegance and classic simplicity for which he is internationally renowned.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Widely regarded as the foremost garden designer in Australia today, Bangay's clients include a roster of the most prominent figures in business and culture.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: His extensive list of projects span private and public commissions in Australia and New Zealand, as well as further afield in Europe, North America, and the West Indies.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Paul says to live a life led by the seasons is to live one closely tied to a garden, and Stonefields is mine.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Paul's celebrated Victorian property, Stonefields, has now been under his expert care for 15 years.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Today the garden is mature and more beautiful than ever.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: From the vibrant autumn colours in the woodland and evocative dormancy of winter to the jubilant flowering of the crab apple in springtime and perpetual rich harvest of produce, it is in a beautiful garden.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: In his new book, Stonefields by the Seasons, Paul takes the reader through the garden at different times of year to highlight the design principles he's applied to various parts of it and the wide-ranging inspirations for his choices.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Along the way, he gives practical advice in seasonal planting and outlines essential quarterly tasks.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Recently, when I was visiting the stunning Stonefields property, I loved the symmetry, yet free-form style of sumptuous gardens that Paul has nurtured.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was struck by the calm, peaceful aura, a true sanctuary in the rolling hills of Woodend.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, Paul, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thrilled to have you on, and I look forward to chatting to you about all things gardening and green.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: In your new book, Stonefields by the Seasons, it's a reflective journey and it's a celebration of creativity and the universal life cycle through the seasons.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you also touch on the impact of climate change on your surroundings.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to me a little bit about that?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you see it affecting our gardens and their future?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so you know, in the in I've been there, like you said, 15 years.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: When I first moved there, um, you know, we got snow every year and we looked forward to getting snow every year.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now we rarely get snow.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we might get a little slight dusting.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So in that 15 years, I've watched the snow slowly disappear.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've watched every year get drier and drier and drier, and you know, we get longer heat waves than we normally would.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we are blessed up there because we're at 650 meters above sea level.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's cooler and it's usually wetter.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we get those wonderful cold winters that I adore.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I've definitely seen a big change due to, and it's it's obviously due to climate change.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we're having to respond.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're having to change our planting palette, we're having to, you know, choose plants that um will cope with the heat.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's two parts to it, really.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: We've got to choose plants that will take the extreme heat and not burn and fry, and ones that need less water.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, and that's happening with our gardens all over Australia that we're creating.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, if could you give me an example of what some of those plant choices would be, for example?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like, you know, you know, and and it's very hard for people to let go of plants.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like everybody, and and Instagram is really responsible for this.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, everybody looks at hydrangeas and like all we want is big white hydrangeas, big bangs.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: They just don't do well in Australia anymore.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's really sad.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I used to be able to plant them quite confidently in Sydney, knowing that they get a lot more summer rain.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're struggling in Sydney even now.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you we're gonna have to let go of some of the softer plant choices like hydrangeas, azaleas, rhododendrons, you know, that sort of old-fashioned sort of planting that we've we've always loved.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they're so quintessential Australian.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a quintessential Australian palette.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't understand.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, what sort of thing would you replace with, for example, what we're talking about?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you just I mean, what we're looking at is more um more climates that are sort of suited to us or aligned with us, and they'd be more sort of Mediterranean sort of styles.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, all the lavenders, irises, rosemaries, you know, conifers, wisteria, all those sort of things that do well in Italy or Greece or or the Mediterranean.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we're looking towards those.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: They they still do extremely well and will take the extreme heat.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh up until very recently, I've been always exploring the Middle Eastern gardens.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been to Syria, I've been to Iran, I've been to Jordan to look at their gardens and you know, see what they do in the extreme heat and the dry and what planting pallets they use.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And what are those?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: What, for example, do they do?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Citrus.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: They you know they do citrus pummings roses.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you go to if anyone wants to see the most beautiful gardens, uh, rose gardens of the world, go to Shiraz in Iran.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: They do the most beautiful rose gardens there.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Jasmine's, you know, they they're they're wonderful, sort of evocative courtyards full of scent and and plants that you know are still beautiful and perfumed, but they they tolerate heat.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't think rose gardens in sort of very high heat, would you?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you wouldn't think roses love hot, dry climates.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they love.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's so it's so funny because you associate that with sort of like an English garden, you know, or sort of you know, so you know, so it's interesting to me that you've and and really what you're saying is we're almost a Mediterranean climate.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what you're saying?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you know, it look, Australia is such a big country, it changes.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, Sydney is more humid, you know, so they they they're not probably not as Mediterranean, but certainly South Australia, Victoria, you know, parts of Tasmania.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: A cold, wet winter and a dry, hot summer is that typical Mediterranean sort of climate.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so are there any other impacts you see with climate change?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a really interesting one, and obviously one we all have to take on board when we're planting our gardens.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, even the bushfire seasons and and just the way that goes for longer and longer, and and making sure that we cut back and all of that sort of thing, is that something you're also very conscious of?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the bushfires are a really interesting one because now we're we're we've sort of very we're we're overgoverned in this country, obviously, I think.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um the bushfire regulations for um gardens now are really intense and really strict.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so quite often, if you get a what they call a bell rating, which is how susceptible you are to fire in your area, if you're building a new house and garden, quite often you can't even put a garden in because your bell rating's so high.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the bushfire, the bushfires have had a big impact on gardens, and the fact that depending on your bell rating, you might not be allowed to put trees anywhere near the house, you might not be able to put shrubs anywhere near the house.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Virtually all you could do is a mow and lawn up to the house with really bad bell ratings.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's pretty restrictive for you as a as a designer.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be It's almost time to do reverse what we did, you know, pack up and move back to England.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they said they we did it 200 years ago the other way.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's time to go back the other way almost.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find is it so oppressive that it's actually proving quite challenging?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like as in have you got and also you have to deal with your client who's saying, I want this, this, and this in the back of my, you know, in my garden, and you're saying, Well, you know It is, it definitely is.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, certain projects, you just virtually can't do a garden, and that people find that very frustrating.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you you have to you have to abide by these rules, and um, it makes it very, very difficult.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And in some cases, you just can't, you you literally can't do much.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: So are you saying that you're finding doing gardens in Australia more challenging than doing them overseas?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Are they less restrictive?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: There, obviously, much less restrictive, yeah.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Much less restrictive.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Very I mean, in doing gardens in Europe is a lot easier than doing gardens in Australia.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: A, the climate's more gentle, so it's a lot easier.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: But B, they don't have regulations around gardens like we have here.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, pulling, you know, removing trees is really difficult here.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Pool fencing's really difficult here.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: We have to have pool fencing, I get, but you don't have to in Europe.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, the level of um control and detail they go to with pool fences is really strict here.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's all sorts of things that that just doesn't apply overseas.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's something that most people realise.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, we sort of think of ourselves as the as the sort of the free, easy, how you go make sort of and it clearly it's become so overregulated.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really interesting for our listeners too, that that it's something that you have to work with now.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And particularly in the last decade, would you say that's become Yeah, in the last 10, 15 years, I think it's become, you know, really it gets worse every year.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we we had a we had a wonderful job in Sydney, and the client was on the North Shore and they wanted lovely magnolias and they wanted them planting their driveway and they wanted to drive under these magnolias.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And sounds beautiful.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely perfect.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we put the plan in, and and a planner at the council said, no, the magnolias won't fit there.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, but we want to drive underneath them.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: We want to actually create this canopy.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't like them, they won't fit, and you're not allowed to have them is the answer.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: It must be bureaucratic.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: It must be extremely frustrating.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because people think obviously your role is to be creative and to it, it just sounds like your dream job, to be honest, to most people to think, wow, I go, you know, you go out and you choose beautiful flowers, you work with clients and you create these beautiful environments.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, what you're highlighting is you actually deal with quite a lot of bureaucracy and it's Yeah, definitely a lot of bureaucracy.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So do you think so?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Have you developed relationships with councils that obviously you get a lot of you do a lot of gardens and clearly, you know, you're renowned and people respect enormously what you do.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I would imagine that generally you have reasonably good relationships with most councils.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: We do with most councils, and I think most councils will look and realize that you're not going to decimate a site, you're actually going to enhance a site.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good point.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: But but they're uh but they're you know, it's not it's always left to the hands of the planners, the individual planners, and new planners come in, you flood, you know, changes, and quite often you get young new planners come in and go, hmm, never heard of this person.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm not I'm not gonna approve that.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so it's always a struggle, always a struggle.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And your clients, have you found that your clients have changed over time?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, clients have definitely changed over time.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: They have.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: When I first started out, there was a very rich um history and culture of gardening passed on from generation to generation.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And quite often you'd go along to clients and they would know all the names of the plants because their mother had told them or their grandmother had told them.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now that has been lost, that really definitely has been lost.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so people don't have a rich understanding of plant material and and names of plants, so that's that's hard, sort of um teaching people that and and and getting them to realize what they're gonna plant in their garden.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: But also, again, social media has created this sort of great indecisiveness when it comes to clients.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, you you'll go through the planning process, show them the plants.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes, we love that, that's all great.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then they'll go away and look at Instagram and go, actually, but why can't we have this image?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or why can't we have that image incorporated into our garden?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that that that's definitely changed people's um abilities.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Expectations?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, expectations, exactly.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's always a moving beast.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, they have a picture of some of a garden that's completely untenable on their land.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I've got one gorgeous client in Sydney again, and she keeps showing the images and she keeps going, I'd like those.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I go, they won't grow there.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're not, they're not for Sydney.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's you know, it's a photograph from from Denmark or from you know the Cotswolds or somewhere.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: And every time I go there, she goes, What about this?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I go, No, it won't grow.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why won't it grow?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, I go, it just won't.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: The plant won't live there.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is so I can imagine you actually have to be extremely patient and tolerant.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something that you've mastered over time or is it just got one?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: There was a few great architects that I worked with.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Wayne Gillespie was one of them, and he was just a a real diplomat.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, being an ambassador and a diplomat and having great patience is a great asset for a designer to have.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can't have a whopping big ego, and you have to work with people, and you've got to understand it's their garden and they're gonna live in it for the rest of their lives.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you've got to be understanding and and and um have patience.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Very hard, but you have to.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and do you think that's that's something you've mastered more over time because you've dealt with so many people, or do you think so?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think it it certainly has developed with time.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: It would have to be, yeah, over time.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you go a little crazy.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose you get a bit more selective about who you can and will work with, because you can afford to do that.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, look, you can, and I I think that the other important thing that I always tell young designers is not to become too complacent.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, always, always have that little fear inside of you that, you know, you might not be the fate the flavor of the month forever.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's never good to rest on your laurels, I find.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Always, always go looking for contemporary ideas, always keep evolving to remain modern, and never become complacent and never become too egotistical because that's just very unattractive.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think eventually you'll have a shelf life if you do that.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's very good.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've been 35 years, so hopefully it's still, you know, hopefully I can go for another 35 years.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hope so too.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so Paul, tell me a little bit what you've learned from nature.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're surrounded by it all the time.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: What have you learned watching like what an extraordinary uh universe that you're spending your days in all the time?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I know we're very blessed, you know, working outside all the time.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is wonderful.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I went for a walk at Stone in Stonefields the other day, and I was watching a little hollow in the nest of one of our lovely big old eucalypts, which are 400 years old.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And these little group of birds were just nesting in there and they were feeding their young.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I sat for like 20 minutes just watching these little birds, you know, feeding, feeding their young in there.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was just such a wonderful uh thing to, you know, a privilege to be able to sit back and observe these colony of birds, you know, living in my my lovely big gum trees.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what have I learned from nature?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned from nature, you know, and always the definition of gardening I was taught was um sort of dominating nature, like, you know, taking nature and taming it in a way.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm realizing that's not the thing to do.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like you need to work with nature, and you know, and and I think the whole world's going this way, which is wonderful.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So no chemicals, no pesticides, no herbicides, you know, plants that sort of suit the environment a lot more, working with the cycles throughout the the you know, the seasons of of the site that you're in.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what nature's taught me, you know, don't try and dominate it, try and work with nature.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a pretty wonderful lesson because I think it's something that obviously there'd be quite an adaptation to not be using all those pesticides.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, back in the 70s, 80s, everybody's gardens were full of all of that stuff.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's wonderful to see that that and people like you who spearhead change in that arena obviously have realized you can create something beautiful without having to dominate it.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we were it was a bit sort of um, it was a bit like doctors that overs over prescribed um antibiotics.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, we saw a little bug and we jumped on it and sprayed chemicals all over.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you know, you let the bugs have their way.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: We use a lot of predatory mites now.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, and and and and you know, a little bit of damage might get done, but not a lot of damage gets done.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and if and if plants um succumb to too many pests of diseases, you just don't use them.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you change to something else.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you've learned new ways to actually adapt to that and and actually just go with the flow.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if there, as you say, there seems to be something that you need to just wait it out rather than jump on it.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and one of my greatest sayings is that a garden is not a hospital.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if something doesn't do well, rip it out and put something else in that will do well.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that saying.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's great.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and also something I have we know so many people that obviously garden themselves and don't obviously have well, some people obviously can use your resources, but others love to see themselves as professional gardeners, some of which are and some of which are not.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me just what would be your tips to them about um some of your tri tricks of the trade, I suppose, when you've got your own.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Gardening or for gar or for design?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, probably gardening, because I suppose design is something that I do think most people bring in a professional to get that's that sort of template set up.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think do you know what I think um for gardeners?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've got such rich rich resources that we can sort of um draw on now in terms of um uh material we can we can sort of read up on.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think with gardens it's important to read as much as you can and you do as much research as you can if you've got problems.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Don't just jump out and you know, act on it quickly, just do a little bit of research and and and see, you know, what the best result is.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think probably though, the the greatest advice I can give someone is that we tend to neglect our soil a lot.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if our soil's healthy, our gardens will be healthy.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so to look after the soil is one of the most important things we can do.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: And Australians are bad at it.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: We we come to a country that's got um really bad soil.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like soil health in Australia is not great unless you're in a little area like me on those volcanic peaks.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: But most soils in Australia are very sort of deficient of um nutrients and organic material.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So composting, getting the mycorrhizal activity in the soil right, they're all things that people are are now learning are really important things to do.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and one of the one of the really important things now that's coming out is not is no digging, not not turning the soil over, like leaving all that activity, that microbial activity going on in the soil and not turning it over and disturbing it, learning to work with the soil you've got and composting after that.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: We all grew up turning that soil, like everybody.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's so it's such a transformative I thought that I bought a wonderful, like really whiz-bang rotary hoe for my vegetable garden, and they're all saying that's the wrong thing to do now.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: So who who would have thought?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, something I've noticed, like talking to you, you're very good at going, okay, we used to do that, now we're gonna do this.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you seem you're quite progressive in that you you're not stuck in your ways.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're you clearly are prepared to learn.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that is that the key.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Very, very, very important.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, I'm always traveling, I'm always looking at um uh magazines and what's happening around the world doing research, and it's very important to keep moving with the times, like you know, always learning new things.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually read that you have your shed that no one's really allowed into, except for you, and occasionally your husband, and occasionally your dog.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: But um that I sort of like that.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is that your your little sanctuary where you go and you really buckle down and do all that research?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love that image of you in there, you know, you'll say you have the coffee.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's my studio in Stonefields, it's wonderful.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Ruby, the dog's definitely allowed in there.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And my husband comes in every now and then.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give it him a chair now, but it is my little sanctuary, and that's where I do all my design work and all my reading, and it's wonderful.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's my own little precinct.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really your man cave.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's my man cave.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just tell me a little bit about somebody that does inspire you that that really you have learnt from, because clearly you're you're willing to, as you say, be progressive and and take on new new approaches.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is there someone that's really transformed the way you see what you do?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so when I was first starting out, I had I had a great mentor on David Hicks, the great English designer, and he took me under his wing and we became really great friends.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I read at his funeral.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: He asked for me to read at his funeral, I read at his funeral, and um, so we were just wonderful friends, and um I learned so much from him.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think to have a mentor is one of the greatest gifts you can be given in life.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I learned a lot from him about design, like um and how to handle handle clients.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I shadowed him for quite a while and learned, you know, how to be confident with clients.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Comp clients pick up on lack of confidence very quickly and will, you know, sort of not show great belief in your design if you're very um not showing confidence around that.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I love the way he was very masculine about his design.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: I loved that.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that was a different era now, you know.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: We things are a lot softer now, but I learned a lot from David Hicks.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Kevin O'Neill, I don't know whether you remember Kevin O'Neill the first time.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Very much everyone got flowers at Kevin O'Neill.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know, and I work with him on weekends.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: I used to sweep the floor of the florist shop, and the way he handled clients was just wonderful.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like he was just, they they just be the clients respected him so much.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned a lot about handling clients from Kevin.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I was blessed to have quite a few mentors along the way.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, apart from them, like Russell Page was a garden designer of last century, and he wrote this wonderful book called Education of a Gardener.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody garden designer should read this book.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just wonderful.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And he was still one of the greatest garden designers that we've seen in the last two or three hundred years.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's great, Paul.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was just about to ask you what book would you recommend?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And there you go, you've just actually answered my question.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds great.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: We'll definitely put it up on our um Instagram when we when we promo this because I think that is, you're right.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one of the things that I like about the way you talk is you are prepared to constantly read and reference back.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that book sounds like an absolute must.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting to me that also how you even got into this gardening.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Really, there weren't that many young boys.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: How old were you?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: 17, 18, 18.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, when I was like very young when I realized I wanted to, you know, do something with gardens, like I don't know, seven, eight, nine or something like that.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And was that your parents that influenced you?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where did you get that?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely my parents.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: My mother was a great gardener and they were very very heavily involved with the um Australian plant native plant movement back in the 70s and we bought a piece of land down at Wilson's Promontory and we re-vegetated that and you know so and I worked at a I worked at a little native plant nursery around the corner and so from a very early age I was just fascinated with plants and I you're right I was the odd bot at school like um no one else was interested in plants and I and we had a little bit of land there I had a horse and I had goats and I had a big vegetable garden and but you know my friends didn't think I was weird you know I still go to the blue light disco on Saturday night and have fun thank goodness thank goodness you got to do that I mean you wouldn't want to miss out on that in the 70s that's for sure but I love that and I also think that's interesting the nature of enculturation in other words the way that you are brought up I mean what a what an idyllic little image of you having that opportunity as a young boy and who knows whether you would have gone on that journey without having that wonderful well and and my mother she was wonderful she she gave us a piece of the garden that was ours and we could do what we liked with.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that was very important as well.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you know mine became a tortoise pond and then it became a ferny and then I begged my father to put a glass house over the top of it and you know it was just ever changing which is I think was probably brought out the designer in me the fact that I was always changing it and adapting it and you know wanting to expand it make it bigger and better than ever.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we you know I think having our own plot of land that we could do something with we weren't told to go weed a piece of garden that you know we weren't um connected to um I think that would that was very important.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh that's just a beautiful story and I'm really glad that we actually got an insight into where this sort of journey started for you.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: One last question I'd like to ask you is do you listen to music when you garden ever or do you listen to the the natures?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if you do what do you listen to?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well listen we just listen to classic FM ABC classic FM we love classical music up up in the country so you know quite often I listen to podcasts if I'm out in the veggie garden.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: So my my my area of the garden at Stonefields is the veggie garden.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just love getting out there I can get out there confident and make mistakes and make messes that the gardener's not going to be upset with me doing.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's my that's my little pot of lab that I work in constantly and a podcast or ABC classic FM is what I would listen to out there.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And do you actually use veggies from your veggie garden to cook?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: I know your husband's a great cook I think he's a great cook very the philosophy is I grow them and he cooks them.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: So yes we we he doesn't buy vegetables the rule is he doesn't buy vegetables.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever is in the garden is what he cooks.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's wonderful.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well I've heard that he cooks very well and it sounds like he's got the best produce that you can actually find how wonderful what a beautiful relationship.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Paul I'd like to thank you so much for coming on the What I've learned podcast.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's been an absolute gem to interview and I love what you do and I can't wait to come back and visit that beautiful Stonefields.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: I had a beautiful weekend up there and um I think what you've created is very special.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you've learned as much as I have the What I've learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly with new episodes released every Tuesday and a subscription is the easiest way to have it downloaded straight into your pocket.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show so check out my What I've learned Instagram for updates.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: For more stories or an opportunity to tell your own please visit my website at mindfilmpublishing dot com.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile stay tuned stay kind and of course stay curious.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Love death