Latest / More Than Before / Microvalidations & Responsible Citizenship: How Small Acts Can Rebuild Community | Chip Webster

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Microvalidations & Responsible Citizenship: How Small Acts Can Rebuild Community | Chip Webster · More Than Before

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We've become trapped in our silos.
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We've become too contemptuous of those who don't agree with us.
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They must not be human. Our country, our cities, our
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friends have become divided. We can't keep distancing
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ourselves from each other. We must all hang together, and
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most assuredly, we'll hang separately.
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Benjamin Franklin, Our children, our grandchildren need us to
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hang together for their future. A healthy democracy requires its
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citizens to work together to remain free.
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We need to see our interdependence and break down
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the barriers that divide us. We need each other.
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Start with micro validations. Hey everyone, my guest today has
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spent decades developing CE OS, building high performance
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leadership groups, and helping organizations understand that
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people, not strategy, are the only sustainable advantage.
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But in his season of life right now, his focus is shifted beyond
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business to a bigger question. What does it actually mean to be
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a responsible citizen in a divided culture?
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He's the founder of a national nonprofit, the author of Unity
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and Service, A Pathway to Responsible Citizenship.
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Chip Webster, welcome to More than Before.
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I'm so excited to have you on today.
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I'm looking forward to our conversation.
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It'll be fun, but we'll have fun as long as we have fun.
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That's all it wants, right? Yeah, I'm sorry for all of you
1:26
guys listening. We're going to have fun.
1:28
Hopefully you are on for the ride.
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So Chip, you live in St. Petersburg, FL, which is
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actually kind of funny to me because you actually grew up on
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the other side of the United States, correct?
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Right, right. I, I grew up primarily in
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Ventura, which is on the coast, and then Palm Springs in
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California. And then two weeks before my
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senior year, my dad said we're moving to Chicago.
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And being a Californian, I said, where's that?
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The whole world, you know, The Beach Boys of Southern
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California, that was the coolest place in the world.
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It's also interesting time wise too, because senior, senior year
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like was that was that difficult shifting from because I I talked
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to a lot of parents who don't want to make that move until
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after the senior year. Do you do you look back at that
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with kind of different perspective now that you had
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kids of your own? One of the best things ever
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happened to me really for for a couple reasons.
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One whenever when I went to elementary school, my dad was
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principal at junior high. When I went to junior high, my
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dad was principal of high school and I went my first year at high
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school, he was principal. I I went to a town where nobody
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ever had heard of me, heard of my dad, and I was just accepted
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as me and I still get together every year.
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There's about seven of us who graduated in 1964.
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We've been getting together every year someplace in North
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America. And so, wow, it's just been A
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and part of the the Midwest people Midwest are so much more
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welcoming and down to earth. And so it was just really turned
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out to be a wonderful experience.
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I feel like the West Coast, we used to be really good at
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welcoming people, but I, I, over the past, I don't know, 8-9
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years, I feel like we've gotten kind of bad at that.
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I'm good still, but I've beat a lot of people walking on the
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street and they kind of give you weird dirty looks of like, don't
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come near me. But I mean there's other
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reasons, probably why they why they have those looks too.
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No no no, it's it's a real problem.
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So when COVID came, my wife and I did 5 loops of the US in our
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motorhome and she has a daughter in Seattle, a son in San Diego,
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a daughter in Saint Louis, and I have my son in Philadelphia and
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my son here. So we literally did you know, 37
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states loops. We didn't, we didn't go to
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Alaska or Hawaii and I would walk in different towns.
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I, I try to get ten 15,000 steps in a day and each town had its
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own personality and, and Chula vistas where we spent a lot of
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time South of San Diego and I'm walking, I smile at people.
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I do something different every day, say hi to everybody.
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And you know, high percent would ignore you.
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But then when you connected with somebody and smiled at them and
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said hi, they would light up like a Christmas tree.
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I've been recognized. I'm human.
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It's it's one of our many problems that we have to work
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on. Yeah, it's true.
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Validating each other as human beings, not as a Republican or
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Democrat or black or white or purple.
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You are a human being. Yeah, I, I love that you talk
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about that because it's something that I love to do.
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Even, you know, we just moved about a year ago and it's, it's
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crazy to my wife how many people I know already in our
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neighborhood. You know, in fact, I've, I've
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met neighbors from across the street and my neighbors are
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saying, wait, what's that person's name?
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I've never met. What do they do?
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You know, there's, I've had conversations of like, oh, so
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you leave, he leaves at 3:00 in the morning and you leave at
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5:00 in the morning and this. And how do you, how do you even
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know that? You know, I, there's, there's
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something about just connecting with people that is really
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important. And you know, from some of my
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studying of you, you're actually a pretty big connector.
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Where do you think that comes from?
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I think part of it was moving, you know, I moved, you know, 5th
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grade. I moved to Fullerton, CA for one
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year for 6th grade and then moved to Palm Springs for 7311
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and then moving to Lake Forest in grade 12.
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Hi, I could either sit and suck my thumb or meet people, and I
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figured that was a lot more fun. I remember moving into Chicago
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when I got promoted to the headquarters of Sears and I
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didn't know anybody in the city and sitting in my little
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apartment one day and said, you know what, nobody's going to
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come knock on my door. So I got my basketball and went
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out and found a court to play on and you know, pick up and
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created some great friends as a result of that.
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What, what kind of child were you growing up, Chip?
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Were, were you a studious child? Did you, were you the
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adventurous one? What like what, what would what
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would be the, the definition or really the characteristics of
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who you were growing up? If if you asked Missus Tuttle,
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who was my first grade teacher who kicked me out of her class,
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you say it was a pain in the ass for lack of a better term.
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I was a horrible student. I'm dyslexic.
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It turns out I have ADD and we didn't identify those things in
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that time. And I just spelling is still a
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real problem for me. My book would not be.
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I have done three books and they all were edited by my wife who
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is a genius. She's a retired cardiologist and
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her IQ is way above mine. And she will go to a restaurant
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and she'll look at a menu and say there should be a comma
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there. And they spelled crab long.
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I mean, it's just crazy. I look at it.
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OK, so a lousy student, but always industrious when I I'm
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told I don't remember this when we lived in Burbank, when my dad
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was, before I went into kindergarten, I used to sell
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yesterday's newspapers to little old ladies around the
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neighborhood. So and I, I do remember being
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told about this. I used to stand on the side of
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the street and people go by and wave at it.
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So I guess I'm a little extroverted.
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Just a little bit. And then my my dad taught me a
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huge lesson in preschool. We had a apricot tree and the
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apricots in fall and they get really mushy and yucky.
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And my job every day was to pick up all they were apricots.
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And one day I blew it off. I don't think I consciously, I
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just didn't do it and came home. Apricots on the ground.
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Yeah. No working, no Edie to bed
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without dinner. I have a great work ethic,
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probably because I like to eat, but yeah, no.
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So that, that was so I always had, you know, I, I did some
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newspaper routes not allowed that, but a lot of gardening, a
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lot of pulling weeds, taking care of people's houses in my,
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in 6th grade when I want to play peewee football, I told my dad I
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need to buy cleats. He said fine, go find, go find a
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job. You know, in 1958 that was 57.
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You had to pull a lot of weeds to get to 6 bucks for a pair of
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shoes. You know, at A at 1/4 an hour.
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Well, I'm curious because you had to earn that money to buy
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the cleats to play. I assume that you did make the
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money to get the glades, but. Yeah.
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Because you because you worked hard to even have the means to
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play, did that make it more enjoyable when you did play?
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Or maybe even have a a greater respect for the sport.
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You know, I I was always uncoordinated and gangly so I
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didn't play a lot. So it was more about, you know,
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suiting up and being a part of a team and feeling part of a team.
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I really didn't get my coordination until I got into
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college. It there's another another
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story. 62 and 147 lbs my junior year of high school playing,
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trying to play football, and I learned another lesson.
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I just got motivated. I went to the Sears catalog
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store. We didn't have a retail store in
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Palm Springs then and got some JC Higgins weights and pumped
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iron, so I got up to 180 so I could play football and start.
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And then then I was dragged away just before school started.
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So I played a little bit in Lake Forest, but not that team was
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undefeated. When I moved to Lake Forest.
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My friends had never lost a game since junior high.
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Wow, that's crazy. Yeah.
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What I love about your story is you have this entrepreneur
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spirit about you, which is which is funny to me because you
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didn't necessarily go towards entrepreneurship once you got
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out of college if. I no, I want to be present of
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Sears. Is the idea of entrepreneurship
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really wasn't in my DNAI did projects when I was in 4th
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grade. The window washer handed me a
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deck of cards and say go pass my cards around the neighborhood.
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He paid me. I don't know, penny a card or
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something. I've always just been
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industrious, I guess, but entrepreneur.
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I still can't spell it, but it it just it.
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You know, my dad was a Bureau. You know, he was in education.
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You know, that's bureaucracy and, you know, guaranteed job
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and, you know, not a lot of risk.
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And then it wasn't until I left Sears when I got recruited away,
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it was a smaller public company. They begin.
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I met some people that were doing some direct selling stuff
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and I said, you know what, We're going to do that part time and
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learn really how to sell. And that's what the world just
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opened up, yeah. So I, I love that your, your
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dad, you got a work ethic from and I, I love the, the no worky,
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no Edie, which is, you know, it's a, it's actually a biblical
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principle for anyone listening. It's, you know, he who does not
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work, does not eat. And, and it is true, as you
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know, there's a lot of guys out there, there's a lot of people
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out there that are expecting to get paid and to eat for not
11:54
doing anything. And so having a work ethic is
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absolutely huge to any amount of success in anything that you do.
12:02
In fact, I find that actually really refreshing when I do meet
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someone that has a really big work ethic.
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Like if someone comes to the door and they want to mow the
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lawn, kind of want to hire them because how many people do you
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have coming to the door asking to mow your lawn?
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Now, if it's a full service lawn care place, probably not.
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If it's the kid across the street that wants to mow the
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lawn, yeah, I actually might consider that.
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But. I'm curious, so you learn work
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ethic from your dad and hard work.
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What was something that you took away from your mom that has
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helped you to be successful throughout your life?
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You know, my mom was a very loving, creative person.
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She was an interior designer when she worked and was an
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artist. And I think I learned to
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appreciate art. And then, you know, I stumbled
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into poetry. Probably the acceptance of that
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came from my mom. They both were very, you know,
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well educated, read a lot, smart people.
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How is that dynamic with your parents actually with you being
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not the greatest of students and then both being educators
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really? Well, you know, I had two older
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sisters and they both had academic scholarships to
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college, if that tells you anything.
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So I think my dad just, you know, persevered without being,
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he did say some Navy things a couple times because he was so
13:31
frustrated. Like you'll never amount to
13:33
anything if you don't, you know, But when I, when I graduated
13:37
from high school in 64, my dad is Vietnam's going or you went
13:43
to college. You didn't, you know, you could
13:45
get to the 2 S And he said, Chip, you know, you're not a
13:53
really good student, But if you go to this junior college,
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there's a little private junior college on the Northwestern
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campus and you pay your tuition and you work.
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We'll let you live at home and eat.
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And so I went to Kendall College and worked almost full time in a
14:12
clothing store and I got C pluses, you know, so that was
14:19
pretty good for me in college And, and Drake University, where
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I ended up going, had a wonderful program was like Co-op
14:28
where you could work and get credit.
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And so, and my dad meet was then executive director of the Kemper
14:33
Foundation. They knew all these colleges and
14:35
what 1 was good in business and all these different things.
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And he helped me get into Drake. And it turned out to be the
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beginning of my career at Sears, which was a fun ride and I did
14:47
great. I mean, I had three different
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administrative units wanted to hire me when I got out of
14:52
college, the Western California, Iowa and Waukegan, IL, which is
14:59
where I ended up going. And correctly, someone actually,
15:04
there was a, there was when you got hired on to a, a, a, a job,
15:09
they actually wanted you to go through some business
15:12
development classes, didn't they?
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Well, what what happened? And between my junior and senior
15:17
year, I was working at the Waukegan store and Waukegan's
15:21
just north of the Lake Forest. And in those days, that's where
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all the lot of executives live there.
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And the guy was a store manager trained and then CEO of Sears.
15:30
So he was very highly regarded store manager and he put me in
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charge of the outdoor living department, which I did good at.
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And, and then he, he called the headquarters and said, you need
15:43
to put this guy in the NBA program, the summer program.
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And they did. And so I spent six weeks down in
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the headquarters getting a wonderful exposure to different
15:54
buying departments, advertising strategy with the factories.
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I was in the paint department. So we go to a paint factory, go
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to a ladder factory. It was just, you know, once
16:05
again, the world just opens up. Yeah, that's amazing.
16:09
What were your, what were your aspirations growing up like?
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What it what was like, what did you see yourself doing when you
16:15
were growing up? Because, you know, being
16:16
challenged in school, you know, that's a hard thing, maybe not
16:20
being the best within sports, Like, you know, you're maybe not
16:23
going to go play professional. What what was kind of the
16:26
aspiration at that point for you?
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What did you what did you dream about?
16:30
Working for a big company and working my way to the top, yeah,
16:37
that's what I thought. The I thought that was the game
16:39
is, you know, go to work with General Motors, go to work at
16:43
Ford, go to work at Sears and and work your way up to the top.
16:47
So hard work and and learning. Go ahead and learning.
16:53
And learning through experience. I am.
16:54
I am an experiential learner. So what were some of the the big
17:01
lessons that you started to take away from your time with Sears
17:04
then because you were at Sears for a very long time?
17:07
Well, just 10 years, 10 1/2 years, including four years in
17:11
college. What did I learn at Sears was
17:14
organization and structure discipline.
17:21
You know, you have to have a, you have to have an overall
17:25
structure for things to work in. The other thing I learned is
17:29
that when you let people on the on the floor, the people running
17:33
those individual apartments do their thing and not micromanage
17:38
them, they actually did better than than the people saying in
17:41
Chicago, you know, telling the people in Des Moines what this,
17:46
you know, what they should do. And I think that was part of
17:48
their ultimate downfall. So there was a point in your
17:53
career where you decided to go out on a limb and go into
17:58
entrepreneurship, correct? Yeah, it went.
18:02
It worked like, so I went to the company in Jacksonville, was VP
18:07
of marketing there and assistant to the CEO and then a group vice
18:12
president and there was a real integrity outage on the part of
18:19
the guy that hired me and so I quit.
18:22
So one of the things I learned to do is not tolerate
18:28
dishonesty. And and I called my friends at
18:32
Sears and said I'm looking for a job.
18:34
And they said, well, there's this company in California and
18:36
wants to do business with us. And we're going to tell them if
18:39
they want to do business with us, they have to hire you.
18:42
So that was a pretty good reference and a recommendation.
18:46
Yeah, so and I did that. It was a very small company.
18:49
It was a part of a huge company called Insilco, a big silver
18:52
company. But this was a little design and
18:55
graphics company. And I could begin to see the,
18:59
you know, this guy was entrepreneurially started a
19:02
greeting card company and how that how that evolved.
19:05
And then I started doing part time direct selling, which is
19:09
really the thing that, you know, once I figured out that
19:12
everything starts with a sale, I and I figured I could sell that.
19:17
That was really the entry being an independent contractor
19:20
because I left that company to be an independent contractor.
19:23
Then I had some friends who were in the directory business and we
19:26
started, that was my real entrepreneurial, you know,
19:30
starting consolidated directors of Georgia and then getting
19:33
recruited to be, I think if you're an independent contractor
19:37
and you're working for yourself, you are an entrepreneur.
19:41
And then I became an entrepreneur and running of
19:45
Vestige groups as an independent contractor.
19:49
And then I guess I did pretty good and they asked me to be
19:52
president of Vestige Florida so. Why do you think so many people
19:57
have a hard time getting into sales?
19:59
Because I mean, you, you didn't necessarily choose it, but you,
20:04
you got into it and you actually enjoyed it from what I'm
20:08
understanding. So why do you think most people
20:11
have a resistance to doing something like a sales position
20:15
position or a sales job? I think a lot of people lead
20:18
with fear of failure. The whole idea of being on
20:24
Commission, straight Commission just scares the heck out of
20:26
everybody. And the reality is, Nathan,
20:30
we're all on straight Commission.
20:32
All those employees at Sears when the company closed were on
20:36
Commission because if there wasn't any sales, they didn't
20:39
get to eat either. And so, you know, it's it's just
20:45
overcoming the fear of I guess, you know, if you understand that
20:50
sales is eliminating all the wrong people to find the right
20:53
person, you just keep going until you find the right person.
20:57
So I'm curious because a lot of people will wait and wait and
21:02
wait for something to happen, but then there's also that
21:05
moment where if an opportunity presents itself, you actually
21:08
have to take action. So I'm curious, how do you, how
21:12
do you discern between being patient with something to form
21:17
and not get complacent with just staying where you are?
21:21
What a great question. I think it, you know, the voice
21:26
inside, you know, I can do better than this.
21:31
I'm not growing here. You know, it took even when I
21:35
quit the directory business, I was had merged my company with
21:39
two other guys who was all friends.
21:41
They had North Carolina, South Carolina and Florida, and I had
21:43
Georgia. And, you know, I had two young
21:46
kids. I had a wife that didn't work.
21:50
And we were generating a lot of cash.
21:53
And these guys were buying airplanes for cash, buying
21:56
office buildings for cash. They didn't understand cash
21:58
flow. And I could see that we were
22:01
going sideways. And when we had to publish the
22:04
books. And I guess you just have to
22:08
have the courage to say, you know what?
22:11
This is a train wreck, and I'm not going to write it down.
22:14
And I can remember driving from Burlington, NC, to Atlanta,
22:19
where I'd resigned, and driving home thinking, you know, in the
22:22
middle of the night, what the heck have I done?
22:25
And that act led me to Vestige, which was my calling.
22:33
So you have to be willing to take that risk.
22:36
You know you can't steal second standing on 1st and you have to
22:39
have that confidence. Not cockiness, but confidence.
22:44
I can do this. If it doesn't work, I'll figure
22:46
something else out. It's fear of failure.
22:51
That's huge. How?
22:53
How did you know that Vistage was your calling?
22:58
I did it first, I can remember back.
23:02
It wasn't. It wasn't a light that came down
23:04
annoying. In fact, I, I, I went and stayed
23:10
with my in laws in Florida. We were living in Atlanta and
23:13
this office was in Jacksonville and they were in Jacksonville.
23:16
So I stayed with them and I can remember tossing and turning and
23:21
sweating and, and thinking, oh God, what have I done?
23:25
I have no income. And a voice, the still small
23:30
voice just said you're going to be fine.
23:33
And that that was a huge experience for me.
23:38
So, you know, it's it's I had, I had worked years before when
23:46
this direct selling business where you're trying to help
23:48
people be successful. And I was sitting on my couch
23:52
about 3:00 in the morning. As you know, I'm a night person
23:55
looking out over 1000 oaks on the one O 1, you know, the
24:00
coast, Pacific Coast Highway. What is my purpose in life?
24:06
And I love helping people see their potential.
24:11
And that's what Vistige is about is helping people see more of
24:18
what they can do. So it took me, you know,
24:22
probably 18 months to really connect those dots.
24:24
And then I realized I'm not going to make all the money in
24:28
the world doing this, but I'm going to be really happy and
24:31
feel like I'm making a difference.
24:33
I mean, that's what we're going to do, is make a difference.
24:35
If you're not making a difference, if you're not adding
24:37
value, you're taking up space. It's true, you know, so many
24:42
people are chasing the dollar in the world thinking that that's
24:47
going to make them happy. Kind of.
24:48
I'm trying to remember who, who said it, but everyone, I think
24:54
it was Les Brown where he said ever.
24:58
Everyone, everyone says, what is it?
25:00
Oh gosh, I'm, I'm blanking on it right now.
25:03
Everyone says, everyone says money doesn't buy happiness, but
25:08
I want to find out for myself. There's, there's something
25:12
really powerful about that though, because there are still
25:15
so many people. We, we have this consistent
25:18
cycle of people that are running after money that are running
25:21
after a form of success. Whereas significance is a really
25:26
powerful thing and you have to have some success in order to be
25:28
have significance, right? You have to have some kind of
25:31
funding in some way to serve other people.
25:34
But I'm, I'm curious how, how has making that shift from
25:40
success to significance? How has that shifted your
25:44
identity in the world and showing up how you do everyday?
25:50
I, I think I'm, I'm more of a mentor to everybody, even, you
25:55
know, going and buying some. I went and bought something
25:57
today in the grocery store and just, you know, made sure I made
26:01
a positive comment to the girl checking me out.
26:05
You know, my, my job is to help other people see their potential
26:10
and with everybody and, and validating them.
26:15
That's what my poem is about, that we'll get to some point in
26:19
time. What does What does conflict
26:24
mean to you? Why?
26:25
Why is conflict an important aspect of life?
26:30
Well, I guess there's different kinds of conflict.
26:32
So you know, there's the, you know, junior high, let's let's
26:39
Duke it out conflict. Then there's this, when you get
26:44
into business, this Ying and Yang of, you know, power and
26:48
we're doing what's right. I think conflict in general
26:53
sharpens your saw and and helps you understand more of what you
26:59
stand for. The conflict when I left the
27:02
company in Jacksonville was that the CEO who'd been my mentor at
27:05
Sears, great personality, you know, filled up the room, but he
27:09
was not honest with himself or his family or Wall Street.
27:17
I just. I couldn't do that.
27:21
So, you know, and then when you wrestle with that, you know,
27:23
when you're making a decision, how do I get out of here?
27:25
I was making pretty good money and had a great gig.
27:32
Yeah. Money, money and conflict And
27:35
making those connecting those dots comes back to what do you
27:39
stand for, What do you tolerate? And if there is a conflict.
27:45
OK, you know, let's sit down and work it out.
27:50
My wife, you know, she was a retired cardiologist.
27:52
She's, as I said, she's very smart.
27:53
She's very independent. I'm independent.
27:57
And sometimes we don't agree, but we sit down and and work it
28:01
out and have the conversation, which is what I couldn't do with
28:03
my first marriage. Why do you think it's important
28:08
to be able to have those discussions and still remain
28:11
friends? I mean, you know, we, we live in
28:13
a political world. We live in a, a world of just
28:16
people don't like to have conflict.
28:18
And you know, if we don't, if we don't agree on the same color of
28:21
ice cream cone, then it's over. If we, if we can't, if we can't
28:28
agree to drink the same cola product, you know, if you're a
28:33
Coke guy, I mean, you remember this a long time ago, it was,
28:36
it's always been Coke versus Pepsi.
28:38
I don't know what happened to Pepsi, but you know, there's,
28:41
there's always kind of been this thing of like, it's, it's, it's
28:44
two different sides versus saying it's a preference of, of
28:48
how you see the world and how you engage with it.
28:51
And so I'm, I'm curious, how has that played a part in your world
28:57
view? Because I would imagine early
28:59
on, because that you got to see so many different types of
29:03
people from all around the world.
29:05
And even in your travels, you've seen a lot of people.
29:08
Why is it so important to be able to get along with other
29:10
people that don't have the same viewpoint as you?
29:13
Well, first of all, none of us is as smart as all of us.
29:17
And one of the things that we've absolutely lost in this country
29:21
is the need for a pluralistic we.
29:23
Democracy requires a pluralistic society and conflict is says we
29:30
have this issue, our national debt.
29:33
How can we work together? You want to give away a lot of
29:35
money to programs. We want to build defense so we
29:39
can stay independent. How do we meet together and help
29:44
each other survive? We, we need each other.
29:50
And I think the, the, the thing that breaks down the conflict
29:54
and causes us to come to resolution is when we clearly
29:58
understand we need each other to survive.
30:03
So, you know, the wonderful thing about my wife is we love
30:06
each other. We want to stay together.
30:08
And that's more important than, you know, you like Coke and I
30:12
like Pepsi. Actually, that was it.
30:16
What did I just hear recently? I I've heard it a number of
30:18
times, but it's a good reminder. You can either.
30:20
You can either be right or you can be happy.
30:26
You can even be right or married, but you can't be both
30:29
right? What were I?
30:33
I always love hearing what like the pivotal moment of having a
30:38
child. I feel like is is is pretty big
30:40
in your life. What were some of the things
30:42
that you learned? I think first of all from from
30:47
your boys, but then also how did life shift when you had your
30:52
first grandbaby? Well, starting with my boys, my
30:59
wife and I were, we're kind of rocky, but we were hanging
31:03
together and she got pregnant and we, we were almost to the
31:08
point and I was turning 38 at a point where maybe we don't have
31:13
kids. And then wit my oldest showed up
31:18
and I can remember holding him in my arms.
31:23
You know, I was in the birthing room, he came out, they washed
31:27
him, put him in my arms and feeling that being, and I'd be,
31:32
I understood the love of my, my parents and the love of God is
31:39
unlimited. And then when the second one
31:41
came, because I was so close to my first son, you know, I said,
31:44
how can anybody be? I can't love anybody more.
31:46
And the fact is that love is unlimited.
31:49
You have 4 kids and I'm, you love them differently, but you
31:52
love them unconditionally. And so that was the big, the
31:57
biggest thing then, then, then you have the responsibility to
32:01
take care of them and, and, and nurture them, discipline them,
32:06
train them, don't give them a free lunch.
32:11
Everybody doesn't get a trophy. And then with grandchildren,
32:20
wow. It's just, you know, you, you do
32:25
the things that you can to support them and help them in
32:30
the future, but you don't, you don't have the same
32:33
relationship. You know, as I said earlier,
32:36
you, you I don't always agree with what my kids do.
32:39
I know they're doing their best and they're trying to do the
32:42
right thing, but I've got to let them do.
32:45
It's their journey. And, and, and I see families
32:48
where, you know, the grandparents, you know, are
32:51
trying to dominate. I don't think that's healthy
32:56
unless, unless there's abuse or I mean, there's, you know, yeah,
32:59
that's a different story. I love this concept that you
33:03
just said that love is unlimited.
33:06
I'm curious, I, I think a lot of people limit their capacity to
33:10
love others, but I'm curious how, how do you think people
33:14
grow their capacity to love others?
33:16
Because I think right now, even even in the world that we live
33:19
in, you know, in our democracy that we have, we, we look at the
33:23
other side depending on no matter where you are, you look
33:26
at the other side and you go, how could anyone love some of
33:28
the things that way? And you almost kind of shut off
33:31
your heart to being able to love someone that thinks differently
33:34
from you. How do you think someone grows
33:37
their capacity to love someone? I mean, even the Bible talks
33:40
about that to love those that hate you, love those who
33:42
persecute you. How do you grow to love someone
33:46
that has a different opinion than you?
33:48
Well, well, love is a very diverse word.
33:52
The word love is probably has the more meanings than any other
33:58
word in the vocabulary. Maybe the Phileo brotherly love?
34:06
You just see their humanness that they're trying to, you
34:11
know, they, they, they're trying to do their best and respect it.
34:17
You don't have to bow to it. You don't have to agree with it,
34:21
but you can say, you know, I appreciate your perspective.
34:23
Thank you. And, and, and if you open
34:28
yourself up, you're going to learn something.
34:32
I, I have talked, I did a talk to the economic club a few weeks
34:38
ago. And one of the things I say, you
34:40
listen to people and when they are saying something that's
34:46
different than you believe, just say, tell me more, tell me more.
34:50
Don't challenge them. Well, how does that work?
34:53
No, tell me more. Wow, that's interesting.
34:57
What, what what brought you to that conclusion?
35:01
And then if you, they're done, you say thank you and you don't
35:07
have to unless they ask you, you don't say anything.
35:11
Being listened to is so much like being loved.
35:14
It's hard to tell the difference.
35:16
And by listening to somebody and giving them a chance to let it
35:22
out, they're going to they're going to be more comfortable.
35:25
I don't if they feel loved or not, but hopefully they feel
35:27
listened to. Yeah.
35:31
You know, so it's hard for me. I am very judgmental.
35:35
I'm judgmental. My I'm very hard on myself.
35:37
I'm very hard on everybody else. And I just have to learn to go.
35:40
That's not my role. Yeah, I think one of the hardest
35:45
roles in life is to give up the judgment position to judge
35:50
others and to judge yourself and allowing God to be your ultimate
35:55
judge. You know, you know, I believe
35:58
and I believe that you also believe this too, that at the
36:01
end of the day, you and I were going to stand before the
36:03
ultimate judge of all things. And the question of is, you
36:07
know, how did you live your life?
36:08
Did you love others? Did you care for others?
36:10
Did you did you feed my sheep, which is, which is really
36:14
powerful. I I am actually curious because
36:16
I haven't heard you talk too much about this, but what what
36:19
aspect has faith played and your relationship with God?
36:25
How has that evolved over the years?
36:28
Well, I'm, I'm probably one of the less religious people that
36:33
you talk to, have talked, spoken to, but I, I did study the Bible
36:39
and as I grew up and I believe that there is a greater power
36:43
and I believe that it's God. There's only one God.
36:48
And I just, you know, before I came on here, I just asked God
36:54
to give me the right words. And God's played, you know, a
36:59
very important part of my life one-on-one.
37:04
That's powerful because I think a lot of people believe that
37:07
they have to have eloquent words and have to say, you know, the
37:10
exact same pattern of words in order for it to work, almost
37:13
like an incantation. But there is something to be
37:16
said of like even what you just said of, you know, I, I was
37:19
coming on here and I said a quick prayer like, Hey, Lord,
37:23
give me, give me words to speak that I don't sound like complete
37:26
Neanderthal. That's usually for me, not you.
37:29
That that was my prayer, you know, but but it, there's,
37:32
there's a truth about that. And I think that we find people,
37:35
at least I find people that have a spiritual alignment with me
37:40
where, you know, I'll, I'll be talking.
37:43
I, I'm trying to remember. It was, it was, I just went and
37:45
saw a brand new Doctor recently. And I'm sitting down and he's,
37:50
he's sitting across from me and he's asking me all these
37:52
different questions. And I'm just smiling, I'm
37:54
laughing. We're having a good time.
37:57
And he says, you have a great smile.
38:00
And I said, thank you. He goes, are you, are you a
38:01
Christian? I said, yes, that was a strange
38:07
way of just getting into it. But yeah, of course.
38:09
And and it was funny because all of a sudden our conversation
38:13
just went to a completely different depth because we we
38:15
met at a spiritual level. And I think there's something to
38:18
be said about that of we're always trying to meet on a, a
38:22
mental level or we're trying to meet a physical level.
38:26
You know, younger, younger guys are always trying to meet on a
38:28
physical level to meet the same place.
38:31
When you get older, you don't really care about that as much.
38:35
But there is this thing about meeting on a spiritual level and
38:39
meeting that person wherever their spiritual level is of
38:42
going, you know, not domineering, but opening up,
38:45
opening up with questions and those kinds of things.
38:48
How has the power of question open up opportunities in your
38:52
life, Chip? Well, that's what I did for a
38:56
living was ask questions and the power of you know, you can have
39:05
the right answer to the wrong question and it doesn't of no
39:08
value. So the real question is finding
39:12
what is the right question, and you only can do that by
39:15
exploration and reframing. So, you know, and one of the
39:21
things I talked about is questioning answer.
39:24
You know, ask a question of somebody when you're doing an
39:28
interview and you might say, well, you know, how did you get
39:32
into this business? And they'll say, well, you know,
39:35
I started my garage, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
39:39
If that's all you ask about. And then you go on to another
39:42
subject, you're not really getting the full answer.
39:45
So when someone would say, well, I've started the garage and
39:48
blah, blah, blah, blah, you might say, well, who helped you?
39:53
Oh, well, George. Oh, does George only own any of
39:58
the company? Yeah, George, he has 25% of the
40:00
company. So now you're getting a much
40:02
richer view of that person as an individual as the ability to
40:07
share and not have to have it all versus just knowing, OK, he
40:12
started the business. So question the answer then you
40:15
the next answer that I the question I would ask is.
40:18
Is George, are you and George on the same page?
40:22
No. You know, so it's digging deep
40:28
and finding out where's the pressure point.
40:31
And you can't do that with one question.
40:32
You just have to keep and listen, listen, listen, listen.
40:36
The best salespeople are the best listeners.
40:39
You shut up. I used to ask some question.
40:41
I just go. Put your bit in your mouth.
40:45
Put my, you know, put my pen in my mouth and just listen.
40:49
And sometimes you just go tell me more.
40:52
And then they you know about the third or fourth level, you
40:54
really get to what the essence is.
40:58
You, you kind of you feel like a lifelong learner to me, someone
41:02
that is just constantly learning, that you're constantly
41:06
looking at every single person away.
41:08
What can I learn from you? What can I, what can I learn
41:10
from you today? And it's, it's such a beautiful
41:13
thing because I can relate with that.
41:15
There's a, there's a lot of people that I meet that are just
41:17
completely different spectrum. Like a good friend of mine, he's
41:20
a Glazer. I don't know anything about
41:22
glazing. And for all of you wondering
41:24
what a Glazer is, it's the person that installs windows.
41:27
It's not someone that's like glazing pots or anything like
41:30
that. That's why I thought it was at
41:31
first. It's like good.
41:32
You don't really seem like a pot pottery kind of guy, right,
41:36
right. But I am curious what what is
41:39
one of the most profound things that you've learned from one of
41:42
the most maybe unexpected people that you've met?
41:49
Wow, a great lesson I had early on at Sears.
41:54
I was running the boys and men's department in Waukegan.
41:59
It was a very successful store and most of the women that work
42:04
there were married to people in the Navy because Great Lakes is
42:08
right there Naval station. And I was young guy, you know,
42:12
do this, do this, do this, do this, do this, do they're
42:15
running around and and these two, they were wives of Navy
42:20
chiefs called me over one day and said, can we talk to you?
42:25
Oh, sure. You know, you know, if you said
42:27
please and thank you, you'd get a lot more done.
42:33
It was a gift, an absolute gift. So that's one of the stories.
42:42
I love that. And that's a it's a powerful us.
42:44
I was thinking about that the last time that I heard people
42:47
saying please and thank you. I don't, I don't, I feel like
42:50
there's a lot of things that are lost that we used to do it.
42:55
We, we would think about these things like, I don't know, there
42:58
was, there was a period of time where people would get
43:00
frustrated if you held the door open for them, But there was a
43:03
period of time also that if you didn't open a door, it was, it
43:07
was considered disrespectful. Now I'm one of those people that
43:10
I teach my kids to open the door for their mother, for other
43:13
people to hold it up. You know, even even if there's a
43:16
gentleman that's walking in the door ahead of us, I'm like,
43:18
Nope, hold that door open. Hold it all the way open.
43:21
Because I'm the type of person that if there's if there's 10
43:24
people behind me, I'll hold the door until all 10 people go
43:27
through. Right, right.
43:28
What, what do you think? Because I love the police and
43:31
thank you. What is?
43:32
What is another maybe core service act that you think that
43:39
maybe is lost nowadays? Are you ready for the poem?
43:44
Yeah, it's called micro validations.
43:49
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt
43:53
me. English proverb.
43:56
Microclimates, microbiomes, microaggressions.
44:00
We live in a microclimate. Microbiomes live in US.
44:05
Microaggressions are part of life.
44:07
What we need more of are micro validations, more micro
44:11
affirmations. We've become trapped in our
44:14
silos. We've become to contemptuous of
44:16
those who don't agree with us. They must not be human.
44:21
Our country, our cities, our friends have become divided.
44:25
We can't keep distancing ourselves from each other.
44:28
We must all hang together, and most assuredly, we'll hang
44:31
separately. Benjamin Franklin, our children,
44:35
our grandchildren need us to hang together for their future.
44:39
A healthy democracy requires its citizens to work together to
44:43
remain free. We need to see our
44:46
interdependence and break down the barriers that divide us.
44:50
We need each other. Start with micro validations.
44:54
Open the door for someone and say hello.
44:57
Talk to your neighbor. Look people and I and
45:00
acknowledge they exist. Reconnect with each other.
45:04
Affirm the humanness in everyone.
45:23
I've heard you read that a couple times.
45:25
Why is that powerful to you? I think it reminds us of our
45:38
humanness and our interdependence.
45:41
If if you, you know, as I said, I've walked all over the country
45:45
and you know, some, some towns everybody says hi.
45:48
Most towns nobody acknowledges you.
45:51
But when you do acknowledge somebody brings them to life.
45:54
We have a loneliness problem in this country. 12% of population
46:00
have no friends, period. Only 34% of the people know
46:06
their neighbors. You know what you experienced
46:08
when you moved into your neighborhood, introducing
46:11
neighbors to each other. Been there a lot longer.
46:15
I would say that's one of the core problems we have in our
46:17
culture. And that poem came to me after I
46:21
wrote my book. I wish it was in it.
46:23
It's not. But that's really the essence of
46:27
us acknowledging and helping each other.
46:30
And, you know, I always get a kick out of, you know, the
46:33
college kids at half. You know, somebody says, I don't
46:35
like the color of your dress and they have to go hug a puppy.
46:39
That's that's not an adult. Sorry.
46:45
So it's, it's getting people to understand we need each other
46:48
and connected. And I think that's the essence
46:50
of what our what our culture needs and to be added back as
46:57
you described, you know, years ago, you open the door for
46:59
somebody and it's great. Thank you.
47:01
I open the door for people now and they just grunt and walk
47:04
through some hey, thank you. But it just I just go, are you
47:09
alive? You know, well, not even grunt.
47:14
At least I can get a grunt or something.
47:18
So you have a really powerful question that I want to ask you
47:25
and I think this is a question that we can all ask ourselves
47:27
and, and I will ask everyone listening right now.
47:30
Well, not now, maybe in a little bit, but for you, Chip, what is
47:35
your responsibility? What is your responsibility when
47:38
it comes to our society and culture and your community?
47:45
Well, first of all, it's to get engaged.
47:49
In the speech I gave, I talked about the responsibilities of
47:52
the government and and the responsibilities of the citizen.
47:55
And the first responsibility citizen is being willing to
47:59
defend our country. Freedom isn't free, and if
48:03
you're unwilling to to defend it, you don't deserve it.
48:08
The second is to vote, but not just vote because Uncle Harry
48:14
tells you so and so is good. Find out what does this person
48:18
stand for? And the most important thing,
48:21
and we're not doing this now and it's really sad, is to put
48:24
nation ahead of party. Right now.
48:27
It's a food fight between the the parties and then go out and
48:32
get engaged in the community by volunteering and breaking down
48:35
those barriers. Absolutely huge.
48:41
If you were to give one piece of advice to someone who is
48:44
listening today, what would you want someone to walk away with?
48:52
I think that what you do matters and you can either be a giver or
48:59
a taker and be a giver and go if it's nothing else than opening
49:04
the door and saying hello. You know what I do at Tampa Bay
49:09
Watch? I volunteer and go plant
49:10
seagrass and I build oyster reef balls and clean fishing line.
49:16
We gather fishing line and clean it and send it to be recycled
49:20
with people different than you. One of the things I love about
49:23
my board that I'm on is it's a very diverse politically and but
49:28
we all have something bigger than us we're working on.
49:31
And so with those, those differences wash away to the
49:35
health of Tampa Bay and educating people about Tampa
49:38
Bay. So get involved in something
49:40
bigger than you. I don't know, I probably rambled
49:44
along. No, I love that.
49:46
I think I think you nailed it. Because I think that we could
49:50
all do that is to get inside, get involved with something
49:52
that's bigger than you. Yeah.
49:54
Go volunteer. Go help out in a place that you
49:57
feel like you can make a difference.
49:59
You know, it's it's not hard to find people in need and places
50:04
where you could fulfill a need. But I find that most of us are
50:08
so wound up in our minds that we need the help that we forget
50:13
that we could be the help for someone else that's out there.
50:17
I, I, I promise you that if you go help somebody else, your
50:24
mental health will become better.
50:29
There's a wonderful study that started back in the 30s.
50:32
In fact, JFK was one of the first groups to go through still
50:37
going on at Harvard. What are the most important
50:40
things through a healthy long life?
50:44
It's not money, it's not education, it's friendships.
50:48
And where are you going to get friendships?
50:50
Not sitting on the couch watching reruns of Judge Judy.
50:53
It's going out and being with people.
50:55
We are pack animals and we need each other.
51:00
That is so, so good. Chip, I have one more question
51:04
here before we wrap up. You know, more than before
51:09
podcast, we talked about more than before I started this
51:13
podcast because in my life, I've always wanted to be more than
51:17
before. And at a certain point, it was
51:20
no more about success and trying to necessarily get an accolade,
51:26
but it was what does it look like for me to be my best more
51:30
than before? I'm curious as you hear the
51:32
words more than before. To you, what does it mean to be
51:35
more than before? When you get knocked down, get
51:41
back up, you know, Learn from your mistakes.
51:48
Be a little bit better every day.
51:52
Give a little bit more every day.
51:55
You know, the before, as I thought about this podcast was,
51:59
you know, when, what what kind of cattle lake event caused you
52:02
to take this turn or that turn? And therefore, therefore I'm
52:06
more than I was before. But I think it's just paying
52:10
attention to what you're learning every day.
52:13
And and I think we become more by giving and helping others.
52:21
I love that it's so good, Chip. This has been an incredible
52:24
conversation for all of you guys listening.
52:27
I want to encourage you to check out Chip's brand new book, Unity
52:30
and service a Pathway to Responsible Citizenship, and
52:34
learn more about his nonprofit at unityandservice.org.
52:38
If you have ever felt disconnected, frustrated or
52:41
unsure of how to contribute in this season of your life, this
52:45
is a great tangible way to get involved, to volunteer locally,
52:51
to start asking the deeper question of what I just asked
52:54
Chip. What is your responsibility?
52:57
How can you get involved today? How can you start to bridge the
53:01
gap in someone else's life? Remember to like, subscribe to
53:04
the channel. As always, remember to be more,
53:07
see more, and experience more than before.