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The Batman · Movie Meltdown

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm Peter Weller and you're listening to Movie Meltdown.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Your move, creep.
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  Speaker 3: The following feature has been rated R by the Motion
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Picture Association of America.
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  Speaker 2: It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: It's showtime, folks.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Enjoy the show.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown. I'm Brian.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: And I'm George.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: And we're coming to you live via digital recording from
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: the Oddity Studios for another superhero fest. Yes, indeed. I
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: figured we could ease our way in with superhero related,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: but it's okay. We can balance out and do the
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: other universes. Sure.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. I mean, as a comic reader of many, many years,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: I read from multiple companies.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: So I don't just stick for one brand. Well, I
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: recently watched something that was a big release and we
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: discussed it not that long ago on an episode where
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, it just didn't bother me. So
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I finally watched the Eternals. Oh, okay. Remember how I
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: saw the trailer and I was like, I don't feel
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: like I'm going to care about these people. Yeah, I
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: don't really care about these people. That's my main problem.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I was like, this is really long and I don't
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: care about 99% of these people.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: I kind of got attached to Thena and Gilgamesh a
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: little bit because they're kind of a nice couple and
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: you kind of feel a little bad for Thena basically like,
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Because she's the one who kind of keeps her memories,
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: but it's also driving her nuts.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: That was, again, there's interesting things. There's things I like
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: about it. I do think like direction wise, it is
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Chloe Zhao and she's doing what she can. Like, it's
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: hard to find your identity in a Marvel movie. They've
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: handed it to so many people over the years, but.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: She makes it look good, you know, as much as
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: you can. It's got to be glossy CG covered eventually anyway.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: I went back and saw Nomadland, and yeah, I could
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: definitely see her. She kept a lot of her cinematography
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: in Eternals. But also, Nomadland is very much about people
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: on the outskirts of everything making connections with each other.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: And Eternals is very much people on the outskirts making
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: a connection with each other. So if you really break
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: some stuff down, She did a very good job with
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: the material.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: From their perspective, Marvel-wise, not necessarily a bad choice, I guess. Especially, visually,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: she knows what she's doing. But, yeah, I don't know.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: I was just... Again, the casting is interesting because you
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: would kind of expect bringing in a name like Angelina
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Jolie that she's going to be the team leader and
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: she's going to be being a badass the whole time. Which,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: she's a badass, but she's losing her shit. And that's
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: interesting i did like that aspect of who she was
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: that we do get to see her be an awesome
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: warrior but at the same time she's kind of crazy
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: and for reasons you know that we see so like
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: that was an interesting choice and so that leaves salma
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: hayek in a weird place because then she is the
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: leader but we have to get rid of her pretty
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: quick so.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah we really only see her in flashbacks so it's
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: like yeah she kind of got half a role and
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: really didn't get to see her do much anything yeah
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: um I like the whole balance with Icarus and Cersei. Basically,
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: you've got two people who are very much in faith
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: in what they're doing, and they have their faith in
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: the celestial Arsham, who's basically their leader, their god, whatever else.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: But then when Cersei learns what's going on after the
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: power gets passed down from her, then that faith splits.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: And now it's like Cersei's like, no, I have an
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: attachment to my home, which is Earth, and Icarus is like, oh,
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: screw that. Now we're going to do what the boss says.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: The whole thing about the Eternals, they have a very
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: rough history with Marvel as a series and as a
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: connection with the fans. The Eternals has always, always, always
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: been disconnected from everything in the Marvel Universe. They are
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: their own thing.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Which is part of that problem, too, I think. I
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: think it was so disconnected. I've told you before, I
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: feel like the more... huge and galactic we get the
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: less attached i am like sometimes it's interesting but like
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: i like the personal stories and like it just gets
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: so big that i'm just again we're building worlds and
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: i'm like yeah so none of these people matter really
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: like which is i don't know it obviously it does
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: matter and it matters within this story because the one
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: person is trying to redeem you know this planet they
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: live on and why they've made these choices. So like it,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: it factors in, but it's, it's way more to get
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: over for me.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: It's just a huge hump of wanting.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: To care about these people. Other, there's some odd choices
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: along the way. The fact that they cast Kumail Nanjiani
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: is awesome. Yeah. The fact that he stepped up and
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: he's like, Hey, I'm representing a whole group of kids
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: that don't get represented in it. I'm going to be
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: a superhero. I'm going to work my ass off and
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: be ripped. And then they never have him take his
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: shirt off.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: I was like, what is that about? I mean, you
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: can tell because he wears a lot of sleeveless stuff.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: But he's still like, it's pretty thick material. Like, you
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: get nothing on that chest that he worked so hard
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: to be on the cover of Men's Fitness with. And
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, that is just mean. That guy did
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: not used to look like that. And he worked his
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: ass off.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Akers gets to take his shirt off. Yeah, of course.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: It's a Marvel movie. We got to have a guy
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: with a shirt off. But not you, Camille. Put your
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: shirt on. That was just mean.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'd say, of course, a lot of people
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: talk about the sex scene between Icarus and Cersei, which,
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: you know, is, stage is a beautiful scene. They kind
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: of had a marriage ceremony, so their husband and wife, they're,
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: you know, doing their thing there. But it's still, like,
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: in the context of a Marvel movie, it's like, we
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: don't have, we have love, but we don't have... Everybody's broken.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: They don't have relationships. Yeah. Everybody's a big mess in
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: the Marvel universe.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, it's very, very odd to have a sex
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: scene in a superhero movie.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: By the way, dude, you know, But yeah, the Kamau's
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: sidekick dude, shooting the video. Yeah. He's the best part
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: of the movie. He really is. He's so much fun.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, his, the whole like, what is it, Kingo
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: backstory is interesting. Again, that little snippet that we get
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: of him telling how he became this celebrity that he
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: is and the backstory there is like really cool. And
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I could almost watch more of that than this.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Everything that comes after this. Well, yeah.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: He basically created his own legacy to explain his eternal life.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: He lives forever.
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: It's like, oh, well, my great-grandfather started this and this.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: I'm the fourth generation now. Again, where's the Marvel series
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: of that going on? Because I'd probably be way more
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: interested in that.
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  Speaker 5: I know, right?
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: The mystical eternal nonsense. Yeah.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: I'd say the strange thing that would make the Eternals
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: a little more interesting are a couple things. Because, of course,
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: they get the end of the movie. and, you know,
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: half the team gets sucked up by Arsham, who's like,
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: all right, we're going to evaluate things, and if I
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: don't like it, we're going to have judgment. Basically, that
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: means he's going to blow up Earth. There are many
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: ways he could do that. So, you know, fans of
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: the Fantastic Four are thinking, oh, this could be a
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: good way to put Galactus.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: In here now.
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: That could be interesting.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of other.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: Basically, there are all kinds of, like, big, powerful, spacey
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: characters in the Marvel Universe. They call them, like, Galactic or, like, or.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: Universal aspects or whatnot. Like, there's literally one called Eternity,
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: and he is the entire universe himself. Like, if you're
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: on the outside of our known universe in the white space,
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: you can see Eternity in his full form, and only
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: a handful have done that because basically normal people would
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: go crazy seeing that shit.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: See, that's... Yeah, I mean, we edged our way into
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: that with Guardians of the Galaxy. We get a guy
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: that's a planet! You know, that's a pretty huge concept. Yeah. But...
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: They did such a good job with those characters. And
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: like almost immediately, that first movie, you're like, I love
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: all these people. Like these are great characters and you
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: want to spend time with them. That movie is twice
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: as long as that first Guardians movie. And we don't get,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know any, I don't remember most of their names.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Half of them I don't even feel like get enough
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: of a snippet to be like, oh, that's the guy that,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: no way. Like I don't even remember half of them.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, yeah, it's just, it's a weird way
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: that they chose to handle them.
• 9:31
  Speaker 6: I know.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: Well, I think, too, it kind of came about circumstantially
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: because they did a series for the Inhumans that was
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: kind of a spinoff from the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Show.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: And Inhumans originally was supposed to get a theatrical release.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: A full movie.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I remember it being on the list, yeah.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then they pulled it back to a TV show,
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: and then like, okay, wait a minute, this show kind
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: of sucks. And so they released it, but they buried it, basically.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: And then we've never spoken of the Inhumans since, which
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: is unfortunate because, one, one, the leader, Black Bolt, plays
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: a lot of crucial roles throughout the Marvel Universe. Two, Lockjaw,
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: the giant teleporting dog, is fucking cool. And cuddly, and
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: you ever want to give him big hugs. And there's
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: a couple other characters within the Inhumans that are also... Medusa, Karnak,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: those are cool guys. You get a little bit of
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: a connection with Quicksilver in there because he ends up
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: getting married to one of them later on. So, you know,
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: there's all kinds of connections and stuff in there. But
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: the Inhumans are really directly involved in a lot of stuff.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: They were introduced in the Fantastic Four.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: You know, the thing.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: But the problem with the Eternals, like, when they originally
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: were introduced, they were introduced in their own series. Like,
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: Jack Kirby had an idea and said... Let's do this. They're,
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: you know, kind of, they're, you know, so.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I want some more psychedelic space art. Yeah.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Well, the problem is this, that Jack Kirby is a fantastic,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: legendary artist that has set the standard a lot of
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: people want to live up to. As a writer, on
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: the other hand, though, the man suffered a bit.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: That's why you team him up with somebody and be like, hey,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: this is a great idea.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: You know, Stan Lee is a fine writer himself, but
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: he is nowhere near a great writer as some of
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: the people we have going now or have come before
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: or whatever else. He was kind of a rudimentary writer.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: He was good for the kids, good at creating stuff.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: He had a great idea, and he'd just.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Be like, here, you take this one, you take this one,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: you take this one. He was a concept guy.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: That's kind of why Stan Lee really only wrote maybe
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: the first six issues of a thing, and then passed
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: on to somebody else, and then they went on and
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: did other things.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: So, again, he's better at running an entire comic studio. Like,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: he was good to be in charge. He's a great
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: idea man, but he didn't need to be there day
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: to day hammering stuff out, you know.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: But he was a far better runner than Kirby was.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: And the problem with the original Eternal series that came
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: out in the 70s, like, they're trying to figure out
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: what the fuck they're doing within the series itself.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: In their own series.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: Like, the first issue is like, okay, it's this mystery.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: We're trying to figure out who these people are and
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: la la la. And then, like, we kind of start getting,
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: and it's like, You're confused as all hell by the
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: time the six issues are done. I think it only
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: ran six issues because it got canceled.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not promising for anybody.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: And so they've done miniseries throughout. I think there's still
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: one that's currently running right now. And the only way
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: it's interesting is you kind of get the whole family dynamic.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: You bring in, you know, Arrow's Star Fox. They introduced
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: him right at the end of the movie.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say. That's the only
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: promising thing is that does seem like it can go
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: somewhere interesting. It's really funny to cast Harry Styles as that,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: because that's what most girls think anyway. He's Eros. He
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: is a Star Fox.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: They kind of mentioned, of course, they kind of buried
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: it a little bit, but he is also the younger
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: brother of Thanos.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I remember you saying that, and then looking into some
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: of that, just enough to be like, that is who
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: this guy is, right?
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because basically, Thanos, though he's not a robot, like
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: the rest, because basically he's... There was kind of like
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: the Celestials, essentially, like, they did a lot of, like,
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: breeding on other planets and experimenting or whatever else. So, basically,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: they went to Titan and did some experimenting and stuff
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: like that within the genetic code. So, basically, you've got
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: some people who look like Star Fox. They're beautiful people,
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: and they live for very long times and sometimes have abilities.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: And then you get Thanos. Oops, Thanos.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, who basically was an aberration when he came out,
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: and everybody kind of saw it from the beginning, and
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: he also kind of killed his own mother when he
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: was a child.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: He's a charming guy.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: But anytime Thanos is introduced into the Eternals series, that's
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: when shit gets interesting, because he's the best character to
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: come from all of them. And some of the other
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: characters have been involved with the Avengers, like Gilgamesh and
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Cersei have been former members from time to time. So, yeah,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: that was kind of fun.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: But it's just like, They.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Really needed, that was the kind of funny thing, they
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: introduced Dane Whitman, who eventually becomes the Black Knight, another
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: superhero character, and they tease him a little bit at
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: the end, but it's like, you have a human character,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: somebody we can attach ourselves to, and he's barely.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: In the movie. Yeah, there's so many of them that
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, are we coming back to that guy?
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Or we do have one that walks away. And I
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: was like, well, yeah, conscientious observer here, that's cool. And
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: then I'm like, but in most of these setups, they're
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: going to leave so they can come back in the
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: big finale. Nope. Nope. Camille just walked off and I
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: was like, well, okay, I guess that was the end
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: of him in this movie.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, the thing is, like, you know, we
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: kind of identify a little more with Barry Keoghan's character
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: of Druig because he's like, no, I'm done with all this, like, shit.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: I've got my own group of people here. We're going
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: to live happily and there you go. But when they realize, okay, well,
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: we've got this celestial that's inside the planet waiting to
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: be born and maybe we need to stop that from
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: happening so we don't destroy the planet.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: That was another. That was my main issue today. when
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I saw the trailer of like, why are these jerks
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: hanging around the planet, not saving us when Thanos comes
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: along and kills a whole bunch of people. And then
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: you said, Oh, they addressed that. And then by the
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: end of the movie, it's like they addressed it. And
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: then they turned around and turned on their own story.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, but if he's going to kill all these,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: like you need all these people for him to have
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: enough energy to be born. And then you've got this
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: guy going to kill half the people. Isn't that going
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: to derail your whole reason that you're on this planet?
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: Well, see, that's the whole thing though, is that the
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: interesting thing about the Marvel universe, we've kind of seen this,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: kind of spread throughout some of the other series and movies.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: It's like, okay, in the Loki series, they... goof around like, oh,
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: they pulled out the desk drawer and the TVA and
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: that guy had a drawer full of Infinity Gems from
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: different multiverses.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: These are just paperweights for me. Yeah.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: And so it's like, oh my God, this big MacGuffin
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: thing with this Thanos guy and the snap and killing
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: half the world.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: We thought that was a big thing, but it really wasn't.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: And then we get to the Eternals and yeah, they're
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: talking about that thing, but they have a much bigger issue.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: There's a bigger thing going on. Yeah.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: So there's, as Qui-Gon Jinn would say, there is always
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: a bigger fish.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: We're crossing our streams, except Disney owns them all, so
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: it's fine. It's fine. Cross the streams. So, yes.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: You know, Eternals is definitely not one of the best
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: of the Marvel films. I don't think it's as problematic
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: because it deals with a side of the Marvel Universe
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: that is a heavy and weighty and sometimes brainy subject
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: with their space and their really big galactic shit. But
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: you still had to get to that part to kind
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: of get to some other things that Later on. I
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: think once we get towards the end of this particular
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: phase of the Marvel Universe, maybe the place of the
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Eternals will make a little more sense.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Maybe. I don't think I need to re-watch it ever again.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: It was just so long.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: And I felt like it took us forever to really
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: get anywhere. It's like we open and it's doing alright.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: And then there's this big drag in the middle.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: Because you're going to have a lot of exposition.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Again, Too many damn characters. Like, we're introducing all these characters,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, for what? Are we at least going
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: to get to... No, we don't really get to know
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: them either. So, like, why have all these characters if
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: you're not going to give them any time to become
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: real people?
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, the most exciting part of the entire
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: movie was one of the two stinger scenes, not the
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: one they introduced Harry Styles, but Black Knight's scene where he's,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: you know, like, he's almost ready to wield the sword
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: and go down that road, which is going to be rough.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: And then we hear a voice in the background, and
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: we're like, oh, who's this guy? And then we look up, oh,
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: it's Marshal Ali.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Again, there's a character I'm actually interested in. So, that one,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I'm on board with.
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: So, yeah.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: So, again, like I said, let's just wait. Because it's
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: going to be one of those movies that I guarantee you,
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: once the rest of the Marvel Universe, from this particular phase,
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: starts playing out a little bit more where we're going,
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: maybe going into 2023, 2024, I think, again, people are
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: going to start going back to it.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Oh! I guess. But even, like, that's, just even our
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: villains of this, which, again, by the end, I'm like,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: which one is the villain? They're both just. Icarus. They're
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: both fighting each other. Well, yeah, he is. But I'm
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: talking about the creatures that we're fighting against the whole time.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: I'm just like.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: And see, even the deviants aren't really the villains.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: They're not bad. Yeah, that's what I was saying. And
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: by the end, I'm like, they're just the other half
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: of you and they're doing their job. And like, yeah,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: it's like they're not really evil.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you have a bit of sympathy from them, even
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: though they're still trying to kill the people who are
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: the quote unquote heroes.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But they were like, as soon as I saw
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: that in the trailer, I was like, wow, this looks
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: like a whole lot of CG stuff. And then I
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: watched the movie. I was like, yeah, I didn't feel
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: like any of that was real. That was the most
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: CG fighting a CG I've ever seen. And that's in
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of these movies. Yeah. It just, again, just
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: detached in so many ways.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: I can certainly see that.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: But, again, it has its moments. It's fine. I'm glad
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: I made it through it. But it was a rough
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: watch for a while there. I was like, when are
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: we done with this? Yeah.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Not everybody likes to read the Silver Surfer comic books.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: He's a pretty guy to look at and look pretty
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: in the art. But sometimes the meat of the story
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: gets a little heady and a little heavy.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: So it's like, okay.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I could certainly agree with folks that may not
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: have enjoyed this as much as some of the other
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: fun movies.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: No.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: Because this is not.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, folks.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: I knew going into this, this was not going to
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: be a fun movie.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Again, that's why I put it off as
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: long as I did. I was like, at least now
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: it's free. I'm already paying for this thing. I don't
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: have to give any extra money. And I can pause
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: it if I need to at home.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: But I've also found a contingent of people who are
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: weary of a lot of the superhero movies. And they
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: liked Eternals. Because it's a little more adult. It's a
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: little more heavy. It has its action-y scenes in it,
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: but there's a lot more of people talking and exposition
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: and things and drama and stuff like that. So I've
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: found there's a contingent of people who don't like, oh yeah,
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: Avengers is kind.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Of those nice.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: But it's like, oh, I kind of like Eternals.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Like, okay. Odd choice. Something for everybody. Somebody's got to
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: read Howard the Duck. If we're ready to get to
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of superhero talking.
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: Oh, yes.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, we are.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: We have left the house we went out into the
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: world you said it's been minimal for you going into
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: the theaters but you made a choice to leave the
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: house and go out on the town indeed to see
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: this week's movie get more out of life go out
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: to a movie Police!
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: Hands up!
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Stay still!
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Get out of.
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: Here!
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Fear is a tool.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: But when that light hits the sky, it's not just
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: a call. It's a warning. I've been trying to reach you.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Fire the gun! This is a powder keg, and.
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: Ritter's the match. I can take care of myself.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: If this continues, it won't be long before you've nothing left.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: I don't care what happens to me. It's only gonna
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: get worse for you.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Whoa, take it easy, sweetheart. Hear everything they say, ain't you?
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Maybe we're not so different.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: Who are you under there?
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I'm vengeance. What's black and blue and dead all over?
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I got you! I got you!
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: In the darkest night, I make the bad guys fall.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: There's a million heroes. The beautiful recompensate. But I'm the
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: best of them all.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: I'm on my way, sir.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Who has the coolest gadgets?
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: Batman.
• 23:04
  Speaker 6: Who has the tricked out ride?
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: Batman.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Who does the sickest backflips? Batman. Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.
• 23:14
  Speaker 6: Batman.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:16
  Speaker 6: Batman.
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Da, da, da, da, da, da, da. so our out
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: on the town feature is the batman the year is
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: 2022 the director matt reeves and the plot according to
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: imdb when the riddler a sadistic serial killer begins murdering
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: key political figures in gotham batman is forced to investigate
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: the city's hidden corruption and question his family's involvement not
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: terrible spoiler alert we're going to ruin the hell out
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: of this so hopefully by now you've already seen it
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: if not go watch it and then listen to this
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: because we're going to dig into all of it so
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: yes three hours of glory you have been warned um
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: i guess we can start at the beginning this is
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: of course the origin story of the little caesar's calzoni
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: and how it came to be shaped like a bat
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: I was a little let down. They really didn't even
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: go into any of the pizza backstory. I was like,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: what the hell? I saw that commercial. I was like,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: you know, of all the tie-ins, this is a strange one.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong. I am a sucker for
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: some Little Caesars. I enjoy my cheap pizza. Oh, yeah. They,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I think, do a pretty damn good job. There's a
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: lot of other fast food chains that I... still would
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: put way further down on the list and they cost
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: a lot more.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: So, and the whole, and also the, the whole ease
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: of them with like the app and then like the oven.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Thing, the pizza box, the fact that I can just
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: go in and get it out of a pizza vending machine.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Now that's the greatest thing in the world. I just
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: love not interacting with humans. Which also will tie into
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: this movie.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: I will still wave to the people behind the counter
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: and say thank you, you know, as on my way out.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Half the time they're distracted and don't really care anyway.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, good, we all feel the same way.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Well, if they're busy with a customer, I won't bother them.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: If nobody else is in there, I'll at least, you know,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: acknowledge them.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: Or if they're otherwise not engaged in conversation, I will
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: still be polite and say thank you because they still
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: made the pizza.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: I guess. I don't know. I don't know what goes on,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: what magic happens behind the scenes.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: I see people in the background making pizza and stuff
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: like that, so they should be applauded for their efforts.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: I'm a former pizza chef myself, so I know what
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: it's like to be back there.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I only wait for the day when robots will make
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: it for us, and just before they take over the Earth,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: they will make our.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: Pizzas and put it in our vending machine. You should
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: make your way to Japan. They literally have, in Tokyo,
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: the big cities around the big touristy and political business districts,
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: They have pizza vending machines that will literally make you
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: a fresh pizza.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I've seen videos of it.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know what they do with the dough, like
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: if they have the dough sitting out in the machine
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: or what, but they toss the dough and they do
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: the thing and make it right there. So it's like,
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: holy crap, you can eat fresh pizza out of a
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: vending machine.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I am fascinated by their culture. I don't know that
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I can afford to go there, but I am fascinated.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: So we are there, sir. You have a robot making pizza.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: The closest I can get is the old bat-shaped calzoni,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: which I need to run out and get one right now.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't really have anything to do with that.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: So that taken off the table, where would you like
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: to begin with our approach to this movie? Some folks
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: have complained about the length of the film. I have
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: those questions by the time we get to the end.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: We can jump right into it if you want.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: I have zero problem with this because from.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: I think at least this one I feel like it's
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: a reason. I don't feel like we wasted our time.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: No.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: I think there's a good story going on at any point.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: But it is a lot of running time there.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: Well, the thing I really enjoyed about it is like
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: there are several points in the movie where you kind
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: of think like, okay, we kind of, you know, we
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: get there and then like something else big happens. So
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: we get like this big crescendo after crescendo after crescendo happening.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: And that's a Batman comic. Yeah.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: Especially when you got a big event going on. So,
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: you know, like, you know, year zero is a really
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: good example of that. Where again, this is a Riddler
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: in conjunction with a couple of other villains who, taking
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: over Gotham City and then kind of with like some
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: help from Poison Ivy, kind of like having the city
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: look like basically it had been abandoned for centuries, even
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: though it had only been six months. And so like
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Batman can't drive down the streets in his Batmobile. He
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: has to basically kind of gorilla it with a dirt bike.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: And he's, you know, he doesn't have access to all
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: of his gadgets and tech anymore because there's an EMP
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: that got launched. So all this compounding efforts came to
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: make Gotham City look like you know, a ruined city,
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: and so he's still got to go and save things,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: but it has fundamentally changed in a very short period
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: of time.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: If, and this is what I was trying to decide
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: even with this one, because it's so long, and then
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: I was like, they keep doing that to us. It's like,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: there hasn't been a short Batman movie, kind of, I
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: don't know, Adam West. I was going back, I was like,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: especially these last ones, it's like, you know... What were
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: the Michael Keaton ones?
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Were they like over two and a half hours?
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: They were. I went back to see because I figured
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: those were the shortest ones. But if we're going backwards here,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: we've got our last. What was the last? Oh, I
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: was doing the Dark Knight series. Because I know Dark
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Knight Rises is really long. Two hours and 45 minutes
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: on Dark Knight Rises. But even you switch to the
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: next round and like even like. Dawn of Justice is
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: two and a half hours.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Depending on which cut, it seems longer.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Justice League is two to four hours, if you want.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: It's sad that even with so many extra people, it's
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: a lesser running time. But yeah, Dawn of Justice was
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: really long. Dark Knight Rises was really long. Dark Knight
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: was equally. It was over two and a half hours.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Even Batman Begins, I thought maybe he started short. Two
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: hours and 20 minutes. I was like... So you have
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: to go back to Batman and Robin before you get
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: to about a two hour run time. It's a little
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: over two hours. And then I looked, all of those,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: like all of the Keaton and Schumacher ones are about
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: two and two minutes or so. You know, they're just
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: two minutes, they're two hours and five minutes. Like it's
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: right around the two hour mark.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: That's kind of the standard back then, you know, in
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: the 80s and 90s. Your standard big popcorn movie was
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: about a two hour movie. Nowadays, that standard has changed.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: It's always shooting for three now. It's a two and
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: a half to three, yeah. Thank you, Lord of the Rings.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you, guys.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: Again I am an experienced cinema goer so I have
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: even with my you know Yeah, I no longer have
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: the bladder control I once did.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: That's an issue, too. I had to think about that
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: going into this one. Yeah, well, I sip my soda
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: these days.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: I ration it out a.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Little bit more. Or these chairs that we keep sitting
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: in are more and more high-tech every time. At what
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: point do we just get a catheter built in?
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: I would love that, honestly. Or some kind of hose.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: Maybe not so much a catheter.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: The bathroom buddy. Yeah, something. It's coming, I'm sure. That's
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: going to take some cleaning, too, man. Yeah, one more reason.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: He thought sweeping up popcorn was bad when he worked
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: at the theater. No, no, no. Somebody's got to deal
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: with this.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: I've swept up my fair share of human fluids at
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: a movie theater as well. But not in every scene. No, no.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: That is very true. Not in every scene. Yes, that is.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Good God, yeah. So that was what I was trying
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: to decide on this one. It's like, because I like
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: everything going on in this movie, and yet I'm just like,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: this is still really long. Are we getting to the point, like,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: have we, especially with something that's based on, like, comic books.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like, wouldn't it make sense to, like, get to
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: a good, at least cliffhanger point and come back and
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: do another movie? Well, I think. I mean, I don't know. Like,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: I wonder, you know, looking at something like that, you know,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: going back to the Avengers. Like, there's points where you
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: could have broken those up into three movies easily, if
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: not four. Sure. But I'm like, I don't know. I mean.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Some things work better in the longer run, but others,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Like, could you have just made it,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: especially now that we also live in series world where
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: everything can be broken up into hour-long chunks. It's like,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know, what do we do with these stories and, like,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: how do we decide what suits it best, I guess.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: Well, I think with this, you're obviously establishing a new franchise,
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: a new series here because you're dealing with a younger
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: period of Batman's career and a younger actor and a
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: younger cast. So, this is our opening salvo to a
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: new thing here. So, I don't think a cliffhanger would
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: work for that. I think a cliffhanger works later on
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: down the road.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously, we've left some seeds here. Because, honestly,
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: we're at a point where Batman's a few years into
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: his career. So, we have the establishment that he and
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: Jim Gordon are working together. And they are two against
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: an army of corruption.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: No.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: They have a handful of cops. They're like the young
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: bucks on the GCPD. But, for the most part... they're
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: dealing with a horde of evil in their city and
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: trying to make it a better place.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: That's Gotham. Yeah. In every incarnation. Absolutely.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: And so, but we're still at a point where like,
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: you know, we're introducing the penguin, but we're only introducing
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Oswald Cobblepot.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Or Ozzy, as he likes to be called.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: He's not quite the penguin just yet.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: I like that we get those things and we don't
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: have them like, technically he's never even a villain in this.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: He's just a probably super corrupt, business owner, but he
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: never fully gets to that point.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: He's obviously got his fingers in that world a little bit,
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: and he's learning a lot from the cameraman Falcone, but yeah,
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: he's not quite in there yet. Even Selina Kyle, she
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: is a gifted thief, but she's not quite Catwoman just yet.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: So really the only people who are who they are
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: are Batman and the Riddler.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: And even the Riddler, this is sort of his, like,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: it's not like he's already dealt with them before.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: Right, this is his origin.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: This is his introduction to, yeah, to becoming the whatever
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: he's going to be.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, just, it's a slightly different take on him.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Not too much. They still stuck.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: With the riddles and being kind of smarter and toying
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: with everything like that. But just the very disturbed sort
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: of take on Paul Dano's performance was a new side
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: to it.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: I absolutely loved it. I mean, casting all around was
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: pretty great. Like, as much as everybody questioned, you know,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: our Batman more than anything, but, like, even he works
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: for what they're doing because he's such a different Batman.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: He works. But these villains, like, as much as, like,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I hear weird stories about personal life
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: version of Colin Farrell, but He is almost unrecognizable. Not
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: just the makeup, but even the way he portrays the character.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: It's a true transformation.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: It's impressive. It really is. If you would have shown
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: me this out of context before I knew it, I
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have got to him. I would have been like,
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Danny DeVito. That was the thing of
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: all the casting they had announced throughout the.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: Film before we saw our first trailer. Everybody was all
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: focusing on Pattinson. Oh, the Twilight guy, the Twilight guy.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: Screw a bunch of that. The man did Twilight like
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: 15 freaking years ago.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: People don't like it. He's done a shitload.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: Of other movies since then and has grown as an actor.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: If you think he couldn't have done Batman and you
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: haven't seen The Lighthouse, you're an idiot.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: I like The Rover. Yeah, The Rover's a good one too.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: The Rover's great. Yes. And again, him doing something that
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: I didn't expect from him. I think he's gone out
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: of his way to be like, yeah, now everybody hates
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: me for being in these movies. How about I do
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: nothing but weird arthouse stuff and, like, kind of push
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: my boundaries and play things that I wouldn't even be. Because, yeah,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: the rover, like, is so not what you would expect
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: to give especially somebody a big name like who he
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: was at the time he, like, left those movies.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: And he's a pretty dude, too.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: That's a dirty, nasty role.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: That is a dirty movie. And, like, his role is
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: not really anything to be... impressed by other than the
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: acting but like as a character you're just like oh
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: this poor guy like what a mess like.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: But yeah but going back it's like the the casting
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: i was concerned about was colin farrell yeah okay i've
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: seen him do some decent roles and some other.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Like i said personally i hear weird stories as an
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: actor i'm almost never let down like he's always pretty
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: solid even even when i'm just like oh this guy
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: and then i get into the movie i'm like damn,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: he is good at this.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's made some weird choices. Like, The Lobster is
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: a weird movie.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Was it The Killing of a Deer or something like that?
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Has a tie-in with another cast member there.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but he's made some weird choices lately.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, okay, he's got some stuff. But it's like,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: The Penguin? Again, pushing himself a little. But this is, yeah,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: that's not what you would expect from him a few
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: years ago. And then seeing this.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: But the funny thing is, as someone, I think I
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: pointed this out on one of my shows or somewhere,
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: but I pointed it out. But somebody did a meme like,
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: you know what? Colin Farrell in the Penguin makeup looks
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: like actor Richard Kind.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Why didn't you just hire Richard Kind and save
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: a shitload of money? That's a whole lot of saving
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: up your latex there.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, granted, Richard has probably aged since his days
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: on Spin City, which is kind of the picture they
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: were referencing. But still, it's like.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Pretty close. You know, it's like... Well, and like... It's
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: just older and more weird looking when you get old. So, like,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: how is that not more what the Penguin is?
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: Like, it's still not a bad... Or could they do, like,
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: a flash-forward movie? It's like a really old Penguin. And
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: then they get to use Richard Kine for that. Maybe
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: that's where we're headed. Once we get to the third
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: one in this trilogy, just Richard Kine the whole movie.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: There you go, yeah.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: But, yeah, I'm just.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Zoe Kravitz, I think, killed it as Catwoman.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: She's another one that's pretty solid all the time. Like,
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: everything I've seen her in, I'm like, yeah, she kind
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: of knows what she's doing here.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Jeffrey Wright, I mean, I want to have a beer
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: with that guy. He just looks like just a, I mean, like,
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: I love him in all his movies, but he does
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: so many movies where he, like, he's just like the
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: lovable guy in the movie, you know?
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: I want to give him a hug.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And you don't get much of that in Gotham,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: so if anybody can deliver in this movie and be likable, like,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Even our hero is.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I loved Gary Oldman's performance as Gordon because I
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: hated the Gotham that they had or the Gordon that
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: they had with the Tim Burton and the Schumacher movies.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he was not really anything. He was
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: just there to hand off the instructions and then he
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: was gone.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they were thinking of the Jim Gordon from the
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: 60s show.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: It's like, no, no, no.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Jim Gordon from the comic books is a contemporary. Yes,
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: maybe he's like 10, 15 years older than Batman, even
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: 20 years older. But he is a contemporary. These guys
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: work together. They're in the field together.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Definitely never more than this, really. Like this whole movie
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: is just them side by side trying to figure this out.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: And like that's that I think was what I liked
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: about it most was this is probably the closest to
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: the animated series. This is close to the comics. Which is... Well, again,
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: but I don't know how to read, so... I've watched
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: many years of the animated series. Sure, yeah. And, like,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: I loved that so much when it was originally on.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: And any time I revisit, I'm like, man, this still
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: holds up.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: And so, like, every live action when they've done kind
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: of goes a different direction. And I'm like, sometimes it works,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: sometimes it doesn't. But usually they don't even get close
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: to that. And, like, once we get into this, I
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: was like, this is really... Especially... Because so much of it,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: like thinking back, I'm like, yes, there's some good action
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: scenes in the animated series. But there's a lot of
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: him wandering around and trying to figure out a mystery
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: and talking to people.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: Because he's a detective.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: There's tons of that going on in this movie. And
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: that really does come into play.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: We only got little snippets of like, okay, and like
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: Batman 89 where he's trying to figure out Joker while
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: he's poisoning people and making them all smiley. So there's
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: a little bit of the science stuff there. We don't
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: get it in Batman Returns. We get a tiny little
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: snippet of it in Batman Forever. But it's basically every
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: Batman incarnation, especially in the Nolan movies.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Everybody's smarter than Batman. Oh, yeah. That's not fucking Batman. Well,
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: and kind of more interesting, too. Like, he's just... and
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I mean he did a fine job of doing what
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: he's trying to do but like once we get past
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: the I'm going to turn myself like the first movie
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: is the most interesting you get with him yeah and
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: those next two he's just there he's just there because
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: we need somebody to fill in the Batman role and
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: do the thing that we need him to do but
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: like Dark Knight I mean you're not even in the
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: neighborhood of what the Joker brings so like He is
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: way more fascinating a character than, it's like, he just
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: sort of shows up and puts the suit on. The
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: third movie, he's got a limp. That's pretty much it.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: The Dark Knight is, you know, now with this Batman film,
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: this new one, they are now rivaling for part number one.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: It will take up more viewings of the Batman for
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: me to finally judge that for myself. But they are
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: now fighting for number one. But you are correct, though.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: The Dark Knight is Heath Ledger's movie.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, definitely. 100%. And he's amazing.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: But what's... Even when he's not in the scenes, it's
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: still his movie.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: It's still his movie. That's it.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: That's how brilliant his performance is.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: And yeah, to take somebody who's as talented as our
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Batman is and have him just backseat immediately. Just like,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: all you gotta do is show up with a suit on, man.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: It's like, it's kinda gotta suck, really. It's like, oh man.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: But the thing, though, I like about Dark Knight is
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: that we get filled out. Of course, it's Joker's film,
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: but we fill out Jim Gordon a little bit more.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: We fill out Lucius Fox a little bit more. So
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: some of his other periphery characters who are just as important,
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: they get a little more time to shine.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: I like that the one thing I'll give them minorly
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: in the Nolan trilogy there is they still kept it
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: in- in-universe in Gotham for what they create. And each
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: time we kind of like, oh, look, there's Scarecrow. He's
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: still in this. And they'd still bring the actor back,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: even though he got way more popular and probably didn't
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: have to do that. But he was cool. He's like,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: want me to come back for a third one? Sure,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: why not? I want a scene. So they still kept
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: it because that's so much of what Batman was. It
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: was like, this town is run by these damn villains.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: And no matter what he does, there's another one. So
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: they gave it where we didn't really get... Each one's
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: in the other one. It's like, here's our main guy.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: It's all about the Joker. And then by the time
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: the Tim Burton ones were handed off, it was like,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: how many villains can we cram in there? But it
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: never really felt like... It just felt like that showcase
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: for this movie and then they're gone. Where at least
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: it felt like Gotham was a thing and it was
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: a continuing story in the Nolan one. And we've already
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: got that going on in this movie.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing I really want to point out too.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: They get... It's not just, this is.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: Not just a Batman film. This is the world of
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: Gotham City. Yeah. They get Gotham, I mean, for a
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: lot of the exteriors for Gotham, I think they use a.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Lot of Chicago for a lot of the film. It's
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: the go-to.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: Chicago or Cleveland, usually. If you want a kind of
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: dirty city, but not too much, kind of look a
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: little like New York, we can fake Cleveland for Goth.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: It was always like Metropolis was New York, Chicago was Gotham,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: until we got that other movie where somehow they were
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: across the bay from each other, which... That's not how
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: this country works. You're wrong. Yeah, I know.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: I always pictured Metropolis was L.A. and Gotham was New York.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Although this movie, I'm like, is this Gotham also exist
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: in the Blade Runner universe? Because it is just dark
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: and raining every damn scene. Which looks awesome, but I
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: was just like, man, why would anybody live here?
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: This town sucks. That's the one question I've asked for
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: decades reading Batman comics.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Who in their right mind... Or if you.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: Lived here, why would you stay?
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: There's an entire other country of weird named cities that
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: are kind of like our cities that you could go
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: move to.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but Gotham is a world, so it's not just
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: like we've got the villain of the week with Riddler. Yeah,
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: we've got three, four, five villains. Five villains in this
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: movie that does not feel compacted. And of those five villains,
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: only one dies.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Because it only focuses and sort of makes this one
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: the main bad guy, sort of. Midway in, I was
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: just like, I can't keep track of all these Italian
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: last names. But we'll see. Again, this kind of.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: The Moroni and the Falcone families are very important.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: To the history of Gotham City. Yeah.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: Because in the early days of the Batman comics, he
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: only fought gangsters.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: So... The three.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: Main books they really kind of use as inspiration for
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: the film are Batman Year One, Batman The Long Halloween,
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: and Ego. Batman Year One's Frank Miller classic, literally telling
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: the origin story of kind of his first year in Batman.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: Long Halloween is an early Batman tale, but it is
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: a murder mystery that literally goes an entire year because
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: there is a killer who's knocking off Political people, mob people,
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: whatever else, and he's only doing it on holidays. And
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: so that's a murder mystery kind of thing there. But
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: it also, you know, Joker's in there. All the big
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: villains we know are in Long Halloween because they're all suspects.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: And then Ego is much more of a collection of
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: short stories that Darwin Cook did that's very much focusing on, like,
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: the psychology of Batman.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Which is a lot of what's going on in this Batman.
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: And you really need to.
• 44:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: That's the thing.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: Batman is most interesting when you are delving deep into
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: his psychology, his methods, why he does things the way
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: he does. Not when he's kicking people's asses. That's kind
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: of fun.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong. That's what brings people in. But
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I enjoy that when it happens.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: Getting a conversation with him and ask him questions that
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: you would take for granted. What's your favorite kind of
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: breakfast cereal in the morning? And he'll look at you funny.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: What's breakfast cereal?
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: You've got to....
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: Delve into him. And that's what makes this story so
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: much of an interesting character.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: What I think is interesting in this version, too, is
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: because you were saying it's like kind of a year
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: one thing, but it's not a full on origin story. Yeah.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Thank goodness we didn't see his parents get killed. Yeah.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: But even as a year one thing, we don't see
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: him like, oh, here's where he gets the Batmobile. Here's
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: where he figures out how to do this. There's him
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: building the suit. Like we don't get any of that.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: It's already going on. We like join in midway in
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: progress because we all know if you're bothering to go
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: to this movie, you know who Batman is. You know
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: what he does. You know where he lives. You know
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: all the basics. So we don't need to recreate them
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: again and again. Like we get it. And so rare
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: do you ever get that. So this one is one
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: of those that just picks up mid-story, more or less.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: And it's still early for him, but it's not... I mean,
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: he's already built his relationship with Gordon, which is what's impressive.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: We just come in the middle of that. That seems
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: like a weird move, almost, for the movie to do.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: And they're buddies, yeah. But they're so good at it. Immediately,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: you get the relationship, and then you see how much
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: of it's like, Because we know Batman's the loner and
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: nobody likes him, but in Gordon, everybody questions his judgment.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Why are you hanging out with this weirdo in a suit?
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Why are you letting him in the crime scene? Constantly
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: questioning him. And it's just like, he's really sticking to
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: his guns to be your friend, Batman. So they really
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: build a pretty good relationship there between those two.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: And if we kind of take in the story of
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: how the two of them met, we know why Bruce
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: is attached to Jim Gordon. Because he was basically the
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: cop that put a coat on a kid who just
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: saw his parents get murdered. So he was the one
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: person that showed him some tenderness and made sure he
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: was okay. And Bruce remembered that. And then Jim's career
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: went on and he paid attention to his career as
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: he started becoming a bit of a crime fighter. And so, okay, well,
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: he's a good guy. But we don't know how Jim
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: gets shacked up with Batman who does not know he's
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: Bruce yet. They haven't revealed that part yet. So it's
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: like they have a good rapport and great friendship, but
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: we haven't delved deeply into Batman revealing who he is.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Which is another thing I think is really interesting in
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: this movie and was sort of what made me think
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: so much about the animated series is like he spends
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: so much of his time just in the suit. And
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: like walking around amongst regular people fighting with cops, like questioning,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: you know, whoever just checking out the scene in the
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: bat suit. And like, you don't like, that's kind of
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: what he did in the series. Like we had the
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: alternate version of him playing Bruce when he needed to,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: but so much of it was him in the suit,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: wandering around, figuring out the mystery. And like this one,
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: it's rare that you see him just sort of interacting
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: with people and not just kicking people's ass when he's
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: in the suit. And like, so that was kind of
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: cool because it, It built not just that relationship with Gordon,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: but also him as a figure in Gotham. People just see,
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: there's a guy that jests like a giant bat. Anyway,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: I gotta go get my groceries. That's just Gotham City.
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: That's how things operate there. I have to give complete
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: and utter credit to the director and the writers on
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: this because they just nailed it. everything yeah you get
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: your detective aspect of batman finally in a movie extensively
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: like okay the riddler is outsmarting but they're kind of
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: neck and neck back and forth the whole movie you
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: know batman gets a little bit neck up then really
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: good it's back you know so that's how it should
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: be but then we all see him the tinkerer sort
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: of thing like he's right around the motorcycle early on
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: and then later on we finally get to see the
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: batmobile because he's been kind of tinkering working on the
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: batmobile But.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: They're also, like, everything about this was, like, pretty low-tech.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Specifically for a Batman movie, because, like, it's two-thirds of
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: the way into this really long movie, and it's like
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: he gets it.
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: Out the gun.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, the grapple gun, the grappling gun
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: in like the bulk of this movie. And like it
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: hadn't occurred to me until I was like, oh, yeah,
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: there's that. We get that nonstop in every other Batman.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: What about the wingsuit scene? Oh, yeah.
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: Was that the first time we saw him using the wingsuit?
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: Because he gets to the edge of that thing. And
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: we normally see Batman, he's up on the grafters. He
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: doesn't care if he's 50, 30, 100 feet up in
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: the air. But he's about ready to jump on that wingsuit.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: He's like, oh, shit.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: That kind of, oh, my God, I'm going to jump
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: off a building kind of moment.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Good reason, because that landing should have killed him.
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: Any non-movie person would be dead now.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: Well, thankfully, I'm wearing a lot of Kevlar body armor.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: That's what saved his ass. He's Batman, and he's wrapped
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: in Kevlar, so that's his best bet.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: But I love the whole gorilla aspect. Like, he would basically, like,
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: take off parts of the suit to kind of just
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: masquerade as a normal person, and a kid in a hoodie,
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: so he can get in and out of places. But
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: we saw, like, again, you know, so many aspects of Batman,
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: but the one thing I loved is, like, when he's,
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: he and Gordon are walking into a crime scene, like,
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: He's not appearing in the shadows. He's not coming through
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: the window. He's coming through the damn front door.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: I'm Batman.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: Through the police line. Or there's times like citizens will
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: see him. Or like the little kid sees him. And
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: he wants to be seen by those people in that way.
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: But then we also see the scenes where the bat
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: signal goes up and all the criminals see that and
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: they shit themselves. And they're all looking in the shadows. Like,
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: is it going to be me? And then when we
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: finally get to the criminals that it is their lucky day.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: Just the way that's handled. We're like, he's in the shadows.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: You know, he's in there. He's walking towards them. And
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: then finally he comes out and just whack, whack, whack, whack, whack.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: It's like, that's thank you. That's another one of those
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: things we didn't introduce. The bat signal was just there.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: I'm like so many other times we have to be like,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: and here's where we're going to get the bat light.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: And we're going to put it on top of a bill.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Like none of that. It's just like, we know he
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: knows the light goes off. And by the end, like
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Catwoman knows, she's just like, ah, shit, all right, well,
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: I know what you have to do. So, like, I
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: don't stand, I don't compare to the city, which is
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: really what you live for. So, yeah, it's like that
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: was just built into the plot, again, without needing tons
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: of explanation.
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: There was a slight change, though, for experienced Batman fans. Normally,
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: the Bat-Signal's on top of the GCPD building.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: It's not.
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: It's an abandoned building. So, again, this is a separation of,
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: Jim Gordon is all about supporting Batman. So he's behind Batman.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: The rest of the police force is not yet. So
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: we haven't got to this. Eventually the signal will be
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: moved to the top of the GCPD building. But we're
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: not there yet either.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: Also because half the force is corrupt anyway. So no
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: wonder they don't like Batman.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: I would say two-thirds of the force.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: And again, that was the great thing. They got just.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: The city itself, just looking the way it did, constantly raining,
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: which kind of fits today as we're recording this.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: It's constantly raining.
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: I did listen to the Michael Giacchino score because, let
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: me tell you, that score is just.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Love it. There's the one part, because I kept hearing it,
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, it would get to that specific movement,
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: we'll say, and it's... edging its way close to the
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: imperial march but then it doesn't move it doesn't pull
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: that turn because then it usually has that little hook
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: but i kept hearing it going he's getting close he's
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: getting up he backed off yeah i was like he
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: backed off and goes his own way but i'm like
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: i mean there's almost nothing better to steal from. So
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm not going to argue that's a great
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: thing to work in.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely a cross between the Danny Elfman Batman
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: theme and the Imperial Marsh. So we're somewhere in between there.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: It is definitely the evil.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Step-cousin of the Danny Elfman theme. Yeah, yeah.
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: Because, again, the thing I love, though, if you really
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: kind of listen to the whole, just the, if you
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: get to the score, the soundtrack itself, they separate the
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: Batman theme by itself. It's throughout the whole movie. But
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: Batman kind of gets his own theme. And the theme
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: starts very dark, but like the movie, the mission changes.
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: He's all about vengeance at the beginning of the film,
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: but then by the end he realizes vengeance is the answer.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: It's justice.
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: Of course, we're still not quite to the Caped Crusader.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: We're still not quite to the Dark Knight just yet.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: It's still sort of hope comes into play that I
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: don't think he had any for himself or the people.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: He was just there to beat people's ass in the beginning.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: And the theme really kind of delves into that because
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: it starts very dark, but then you get like halfway
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: into where things really start building. And the brass comes in.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: It's real, very jarring, but it's a very tight and
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: bright brass that comes in to kind of balance the
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: heaviness of the strings and the heaviness of the percussion. So, yeah,
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: it's really a very interesting theme. The whole score is great,
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: but that theme is just like.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: I love it. Well, I felt like, again, one of
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: the few times you have... regular music becoming almost as
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: important as the theme working in Nirvana became instrumental and
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: like I was getting that vibe anyway before I looked
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: into the backstory on it but then the fact that
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: you know our director used Kurt Cobain as like the
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: inspiration for who this Bruce Wayne is and then the
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: more I thought about it I was like well I
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: mean this is definitely that's maybe the most distinctly different
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: thing about this Batman is how different are not just
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Batman but more more so Bruce Wayne because there almost
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: is no Bruce Wayne as we know him in previous
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: incarnations like there is no millionaire playboy there is no
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going to pretend to be like obsessed with myself
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: and just living the high life and kind of an
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: idiot so that no one will suspect me as this
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: I was like is this the most realistic interpretation of
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: What Bruce Wayne probably would become because this is just
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: a kid coming from trauma. And his initial reaction is
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: just recoil from all humanity. And like, that's who he is. Like,
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: he's just the most antisocial person ever. He doesn't interact
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: with anyone as Bruce Wayne. Essentially, he deals with Alfred.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: And that's about it in his life. It's like most
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: of the time we see him talk to anyone he's
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: in the suit. So there almost is no alter ego.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: The Batman is who he became, and this shell of
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: a kid is the one hanging out with the black
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: eyes wearing a hoodie. He's the most hot topic kid ever.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: He just looks totally like a kid who would be
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: listening to Nirvana. Oh, damn, there it is. It's all
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: come for a circle.
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, that's kind of what Riddler points out
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: after he gets captured and they're having that conversation behind
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: the glass is that He's got Batman pegged. He's like,
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: that's the real you. Whoever, Bruce Wayne, that's.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Just, that's a shell. That's a disguise. Which they've toyed
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: with that, but it's like he usually spends so much
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: time playing the alter ego on purpose, whereas now we
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: don't even get that. Like, that is just, I don't
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: have anything else to offer people. The only thing I
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: have is what I've turned myself into coming out of
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: this trauma, and I'm going to use it to, again,
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: initially just... people but then as he you know expands
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: and like well now I've become a symbol for the
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: city now I can use what I've learned to you
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: know kind of help people in the grand scheme and
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: you know physically beat people that.
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah and I'm curious like if maybe in the next
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: couple of films when I will we see that transition
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: of him like okay well I can play the role
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: as Bruce Wayne billionaire playboy to distract from the Batman
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: activities and Because that's the thing, the woman who ends
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: up becoming the mayor, she's kind of like, hey, you know,
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: your family did all this philanthropy stuff and you're not
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: doing anything. So she maybe kind of plants that seed
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: in him and then he sees that she's a good
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: person and it's not corrupt. So maybe like, okay, so
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: maybe I will be Bruce Wayne and do this stuff here.
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: But I mean, that's the thing too, is that, you know,
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: they exposed quite a lot. There was like many decades
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: before we really got into like the Wayne family corruption itself.
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: And basically like his mother being in Arkham. You know,
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: so it's like, I mean, we're not even getting into
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: the Arkham family. You want to talk twisted.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: Well, obviously.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: There's a reason why their name is on an asylum.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they led to the asylum. That can't be a
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: normal story.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: The father is the one who created and basically experimented
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: on the patients in his own family and himself whilst
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: in there, and he basically became a patient in his
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: own asylum.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: Lovely. Yeah.
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: Um.
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: So I'm really curious if we're going to get to
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: see more aspects of it. But the thing I'm really
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: kind of hopeful for is one villain we've not seen
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: in the films, where they've done some animated stuff daily
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: and done that. But from the comics, there is a
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: great villain called the Court of Owls. And basically, they
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: are a secret society that has been with Gotham since
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: its creation. They have been around the entire time that
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: Brucie should watch his parents get killed and then became Deflatermouse.
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: They sat and watched the entire time and basically waited
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: for their chance to make themselves known only when they
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: wanted to. But they are not corrupt. They are Gotham.
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: That's basically it. The corruption is the jackasses who are
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: holding their public office, but they're not the ones in charge.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: We are.
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: And while they are very psychological, like they all wear
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: these white, creepy faces that have no expression on them,
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: sort of thing like that, and have a bit of
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: an owl sort of expression, like the eyes are kind
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: of pointed down. So they have a little bit of
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: an owl sort of thing like that. But basically, their
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: Batman is a character called Talon, and so there will
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: be a fight scene between Batman and Talon. talon obviously
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: that's their physicality but the court themselves are more of
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: a psychological we hold the power you try to take
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: it from us.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: That certainly fits more of what's going on in this
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: movie so.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: Far so yeah even pattinson himself has said i would
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: like to see the court of owls as a villain
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: in our series like If you're talking about it, that
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: means someone else has talked about it.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Well, that's what I don't think I realize. Looking into that,
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: he was like a super Batman fan. Nobody knew that
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: when they picked his name out of the hat, so
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: it seemed. But he had watched every movie, read the comics.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: He was totally into it growing up and got to
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: be Batman now. That means a lot, I'm assuming, to him,
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: and he wants to do good with us. Yeah.
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: That's the great thing, too. Spoiler alert, we get a
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: little bit of a tease of the Joker at the
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: end of the movie. And the great thing, too, is, like,
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: you know, some people knew that Barry Keoghan was going
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: to be in the movie. And, like, we're waiting three hours.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Like, where is he? Where is that guy? And then
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, like, oh.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: Basically, when Riddler's in there and all of a sudden
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: somebody starts talking to him, like, oh, shit.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: And then we see it's like. Yeah, as soon as
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: he started hearing the voice, I was like, well, we
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: know where we're going with this. We don't know how
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: far we're going with this.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: Again, like, okay, he's in Arkham, but it's like, is
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: he the Joker yet?
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: Obviously, physically, he is damaged. The accident has happened. But
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: full on, is he... Has he made his way to
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: what we will know? Because we heard him laugh, but
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: it's like, it's not quite the laugh. It's not quite
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: the Michael and Justin enough. I mean, even Joaquin Phoenix
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: busts out the laugh once in his movie.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 7: So it's like, it's... getting there, but, you know, so,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 7: but the nice thing I love about, you know, this
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 7: film is that we can introduce all these other villains,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 7: but they don't have to be the main one.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: They can just be somebody that's, we have to have
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: you in here for something, but you're not the main problem.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: And kind of unconventional choices, because I would not have
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: thought of him for Joker. And it's, I mean, again,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: he's impressive, but such an unusual actor in so many
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: of these movies that are, again, very atypical movies. So, like,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: An odd choice, but again, that's kind of what they're
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: going for with this.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: Because age-wise, Joker and Batman are about the same. There's
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: been a lot of people who complain, like, do we
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: need another Joker?
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: If you're doing a Batman franchise, you need the Joker.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: End of sentence.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if you're just building the city of Gotham.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: Joker's there. Even in comics and other series and stuff,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: Joker's always there. He's in the middle of some crime
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: that's not involved. He's locked up. Like, he's always part
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: of what's going on in some, you know, outside, if
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: we're not focusing on him, that, you know, specific story.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: He's always there. He's always part of Gotham. So, yeah,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: it's kind of hard to do something as tied in
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: to the city as this already is and not have
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: Joker be part of it.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, again, he doesn't have to be, like,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: if the next film is The Court of Owls, they say,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: you know, like, for instance, they're going to do that
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: as the main villain. That's your main villain, but you
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: can have Joker very easily in there because while you
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: have a villain of the court being, they're about control,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: they're about power, they're about order. You got somebody like
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: the Joker who has the antithesis of all of those things.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: He doesn't want power. He has no control.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Doesn't want order at all. And he loves himself some chaos. Yeah, so,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, he's.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: You know, Like Heath said, I'm the dog chasing the car,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: and I know what I'm going to do when I
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: get it.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But that's what I was going with this one, too, is, like,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: we haven't seen a big screen version of Riddler in
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: many years. So once we get this one, I'm like,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: he is so not the Riddler we know. And, like,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: I was just like, is... Because, again, Baldano does a
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: great job with this. He is one of those actors
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: that I know him by name for years, and I
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: can never... I'm like, have I seen him in... I
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: think I've missed so many other things he's known for.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: But watching him in this, I'm just like, he's doing
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: something very different than what you would expect from even...
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: Not just the Riddler, but even just a villain in
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: a Batman movie, period. They're doing... kind of a different
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: take on it and everything being a little more grounded
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: like again we don't have a big flashy batmobile we've
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: just got a muscle car batmobile right he's just on
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: a regular motorcycle even the gun is pretty stripped down
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: you know it's like most of the tech is pretty
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: real world yeah so it's like this becomes a real
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: world villain and kind of the whole scenario as it
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: unfolds So that's what, yeah, I mean, he plays it
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: very creepy, but real world creepy. That's what you were saying,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: lurking in the shadows. That first scene of him in
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: the house with the guy is like, whoa. I was like,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: that was good. Like, that was good and horribly disturbing
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: and violent. And I was just like, yeah, this is
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: doing a different thing with him as a villain that
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: we're not used to. Because he's, again, very real world
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: and using... the riddle concept, but again, leaning more towards
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: like a, a Zodiac, a Zodiac than, than like a,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: a crazy leotard where, you know, it's not near that,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: you know, crazy theatrics.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: He's not wearing a green suit with question marks all
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: over in this one.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: No bowler, nothing.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: And the glasses just make him even dorkier.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing, too, is that Edward Enigma is
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: a psychological villain. Batman's got plenty of villains that are
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: physical villains.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: But he's also got a handful of villains that are
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: also very psychological. Riddler is one of those. He even
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: makes a point. He's like, don't kick my ass.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: You'd win. Yeah.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: But it's like, I'm messing with your head.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: That's what I do. And that's, yeah, that is his
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: whole thing, really, is like, trying to prove that he's
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: smarter than everyone else, specifically Batman, as they get into it. Like,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: that's his ongoing thing, is like, I don't care if
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: you lock me up. I just want to know I
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: was smarter than you. You know, it's like that's... And.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: When he throws the tantrum, that was the best, because like, yes!
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: It's like, he had everything planned out, but then all
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: of a sudden he gets that moment of like, oh, wait! No,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: you don't know about this part.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, shit.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: I did. Oh, wait. I'm still winning. Yeah, okay. The
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: real battle's coming. You don't even know yet.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: But I was very excited about Paul Dano being cast
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: as Riddler because I've seen him in lots of, I mean,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: he's been around forever. I mean, from like, just taking
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: it from like Little Miss Sunshine to There Will Be Blood.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: The two differences of performance is there.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: Alone you know but yeah it's like if bruce wayne
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: listens to nirvana the riddler listens to the pixies because
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: he's all about the loud quiet loud you know it'll
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: be very bombastic so yeah he's.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Get me wrong i like prince joker but.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah but this this is not that kind of a
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: movie and honestly another aspect they kind of tweaked a
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: little bit, kind of modernized it, is that the Joker
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: doesn't have, like, henchmen. Like, he doesn't, you know, put
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: out a flyer and say, looking for.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: Or Riddler.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: Or Riddler, I'm sorry. Yeah, Riddler's not looking, you know,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: putting out a flyer, looking for guys, you know, will
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: you help me fight Batman?
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: You don't need to anymore, is the thing. Yeah, you
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: get online and they will come to you. And that's
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: what I was gonna get to in this one. Like,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: once we get into the Riddler, I'm like, do you
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: think they tweaked that ending in the previous year? Because
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: they got pushed back five months, you know, massively by COVID.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: So they had enough time that I'm like, do you
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: think that third act was already written before our entire,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: a group of crazy militia people that all coordinated things
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: on the internet showed up to take over the government?
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: That's a good question.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: Well, that's pretty much the third act of this movie.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, was that preexisting before or did they rewrite?
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: And either version is kind of interesting. Yeah. If it,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: didn't change because of that that's weird because that's art
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: imitates life and vice versa.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: Well i mean that's the thing though i mean if
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: there was if we had somebody today like that henchmen
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: works for the 60s and the 50s and the 40s
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: yeah but today we don't have henchmen we have followers
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: we have acolytes well.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: It depends on who you are it's like if you're
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: doing it like the penguin in this you know He's
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: got goons that work for him.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: They can be henchmen. He's mafia.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a mafia type of guy. He stole old
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: world cards.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: He can have henchmen.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: But when we're trying to do something different with the villains,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: it's like you don't need henchmen anymore. You can have
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: followers and they will do your bidding even without worrying
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: about you. You throw an idea at them and they
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: think it's their idea as much as yours. And that's
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: why they're willing to stand up for it and potentially
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: die for it under some circumstances. So... Yeah, it's a
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: different way to spin this. And yeah, I was kind
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: of impressed with that, that it was, again, not so
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: flashy superhero stuff.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: A little more grounded in reality and uncomfortably so sometimes.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, if you just take in our three
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: villains and just kind of the different takes on them,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: you know, you got Oswald Cobblepot, who he's a businessman.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: He's a corrupt businessman, but he's a businessman. Even when
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: he goes into the crime lord mafia stuff, he's still
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: a businessman. There is money to be made. There is
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: a purpose, whatever else. We want to keep some level
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: of order. We want to keep a little of this.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you need the order to keep the money coming in. Right.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: Whereas Riddler is insane. He is driven by madness. We've
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: got Catwoman on the other hand. Selina, where it's like, okay,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: she's traumatized. She's had some shit go down that's not
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: been great. But there's still a good part of her.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: But she's still going to steal things because she doesn't
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: want to work a nine-to-fiver. Yeah. Okay, but also it's
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: like you can see she can still.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: Be turned to the light side. I don't think she
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: was ever even bad in this movie. Like, she just...
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: has a rough life doing what she has to do
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: to deal. But even then, like from the introduction to her,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: like she's just looking for a friend, you know, it's like,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: she's just dealing with her personal stuff and like, isn't
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: really part of this except when it unfolds. And she
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: is part of it more than she even realized.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: So, and also my only complaint is that stupid, uh, uh,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: burglars mask of hers.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't cover your face. Like, if you're going
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: to bother to wear it, at least have it cover
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: your face and protect your identity if you're worried about that.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: It's just like, I could, even, because, okay, it had
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: the little cat ears on the top, but it's like,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: it literally covers her nose. It's like, we could still
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: make out your face.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we all know it's you. We can see.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, some people had complaints about the Batman mask. Like,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: the suit was fine, but they complained about the mask. Like,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: that's an early version. How many suits has Batman had
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: over the decades?
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: Again, that was the thing I noticed in this one.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: It was like, it feels real. It feels like you
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: went to a leathersmith and went, make me a cow, basically. Yeah.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: And it feels like a real world. Where the other ones,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: I'm like, without a Hollywood studio, I don't know how
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: the hell you would make that mask that most of
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: the Batman people wear. It's like, Where this feels like
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: a real world version of I need to come up
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: with this mask. How the hell do I do it?
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: How can I find somebody to do it? It's a
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: real world version of it. I kind of appreciated that.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: And another thing about the suit we haven't talked about
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: yet is the batarangs. We only saw the batarangs used
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: once in a three hour Batman movie. And he didn't
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: throw it. He cut police tape with it.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, again, most of that stuff doesn't even come into
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: play until at least the second half. Like, so much
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: of what's, you know, signature Batman kind of stuff, like,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: isn't part of the lead-up of this movie at all.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: And eventually gets used because he gets in bigger, more
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: dire circumstances. But, yeah, definitely a very different attachment to
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: the gadgetry.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: And it was interesting, too, because when I originally saw
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: pictures of the suit and would see, like, close-ups of it,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: I thought the bat symbol on the suit, like, that
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: looks like gun parts. I almost thought maybe, like, he
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: had taken the gun that was used to kill his parents,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: and that's what he made the suit, you know, part
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: of the suit with.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, it's not. It's actually just, it's batarangs. He
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: just hit it in there.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: He just takes it out, boom, bam, you know, doing things. Like, okay,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: that's kind of cool, you know. But, like, we saw, like,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: stuff on his wrist gauntlets, too. Like, but he never
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: even used that stuff. You know, it's like, is that
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: something in another projectile?
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: That's what, yeah, I was trying to decide if it
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: was that just sort of firing stuff out of there, but, yeah.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: He never even used those, but, yeah. But, yeah, just, again,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: just the whole just... the guerrilla tactics he would use,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: the low-tech sort of approach to things, and very real-world stuff.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: No one tried to take it real-world stuff, but they
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: were still like, they had a much larger budget.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: It was flashier. Again, he was the multi-million dollar kid,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: and just bought whatever he wanted.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he had access to military tech. It's like, okay,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: Bruce has access to some scary computer and tech stuff,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: but this is still like, the contact lens thing was
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: really cool, with him being able to record stuff, and
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: that's how he reviews... his cases and you know, whatever.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Else he's doing.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: That's cool. But that's like the highest tech thing.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: That's yeah. Big money. Yeah.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: That's where the, that's where the budget went. Yeah.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: That's where all his funding went.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: Our accounting friends at Wayne enterprises are coming for breakfast here.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: Because I couldn't get you to go there.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: I haven't got time for this.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: It's getting serious, Bruce.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: If this continues, it won't be long before you've nothing.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: I don't care about that. Any of that.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: You don't care about your family's legacy.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: What I'm doing is my family's legacy.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: And we haven't talked about Alfred yet.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: That's what I was just thinking. I was like, Alfred
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: was definitely a different approach this time around, too. What
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: was your take on him?
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: I really love Andy Serkis' take on it. We've seen
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: some recent Alfreds where they're buddy-buddy, but Jeremy Irons' Alfred
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: was kind of snarky a little bit.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: That was kind of the only thing. He had little
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: screen time, and most of it was just being snarky. Yeah.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: And then Michael Caine, Alfred, was kind of the warm,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: the fatherly.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's definitely... dad like as close as batman gets.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah and like he's a little bit you know the
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: man in the chair sort of thing like that but
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: he doesn't get physically involved at all yeah where we've
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: got this alfred it's like okay he may have had
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: some physical involvement at some point but we see him
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: hobbling around a cane so it's like okay was that
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: you know an injury early on is that because basically
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: alfred's former sas so it's like was that a war
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: injury or you know something like that So he's not
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: going to get as physical, but he is definitely involved
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: in helping with the case solving. As a matter of fact,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: he'll help tremendously with the cipher.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: So it's like, okay. It's like, there's... And he's also...
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: We see him helping out with building the car, too.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: So it's like, okay, so we're getting this side of
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: Alfred now.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: He's also maybe more connected. He really does feel like
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: he's grown up with him almost. It's like maybe because...
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, Andy Serkis is... definitely older than him, but like,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: he still doesn't read near as old as Michael Caine
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: is definitely grandfatherly almost, but like, yeah, he, he seems
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: like they come up together and like, he understands why
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: he's as broken as he is. And he kind of
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: is dealing with him again. The only person he really
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: interacts with as, as Bruce is like, this is, this
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: is the only person I've got. So yeah, that was
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: kind of a different approach too.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: I'm, I'm, One thing is, of course, the screenwriters on this,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: Matt Reeves is credited on this, and then originally, Mattson
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: Tomlin wrote a treatment for the movie, and they kind
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: of used some elements of it, but then he wasn't
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: really credited with the final screenplay.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 3: So he took a lot of the elements that he
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: created and did a three-issue series called Batman the Impostor,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 3: which I highly recommend folks looking up. Andrea Sorrentino did
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: the art for it, and so he is great with doing, like, dark,
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: gritty art, but still, like, very good with faces and caricatures.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, just beautiful stuff, but still very dark and gritty.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: But this is definitely kind of like the same sort
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: of broken Bruce. They do a little bit different with Alfred,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: where he doesn't have the connection with Alfred. Alfred basically, like,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: Bruce kicked Alfred out.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: In his story.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: So the connection he has is with his psychologist, Dr.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: Leslie Tompkins, who is also another very important person in
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: the Batman universe. Because while she is not... connected to
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: the crime fighting stuff. She is definitely connected to the
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: helping Bruce Wayne treatment sort of stuff. She knows he's Batman,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: but she's like, he's still a patient. So I can't
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: reveal he's Batman, but we have to talk about the
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: stuff and deal with this sort of thing. So she's
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: a very important character. So she becomes basically the Alfred
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: in his story. So I kind of think that maybe
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: like that was kind of the treatment he wanted. Like
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: we were going to take Alfred out entirely and it
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: was going to be Dr. Tompkins was kind of his thing.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: And they ended up, well, let's stick with Alfred. So
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: there's some interesting thoughts, but the whole main story that
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: basically it's, he's basically been doing his Batman for barely
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: a year, barely got his rapport with the GCPD. Like
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: they know he's kind of good, but he doesn't have
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 3: the friendship with Gordon. And then some dude comes along
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 3: and is dressed just like Batman, doing all the crime
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: fighting stuff, except he's killing people.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: And then, so that's where he's, the fight comes in.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, I'm trying to start my career as
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: a crime fighter and this guy's ruining it because he's
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: killing people.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: So was any of the earlier drafts that got thrown out,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: because I know they had a draft at one point
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: and Matt Reeves liked it, but kind of threw it
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: out and wrote his own or came up with the story.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: That's basically a lot of what Tomlinson wrote was the
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: stuff that got thrown out.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: Was that the crossover or was there a previous one?
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: Because I kind of forgot. I remember years ago hearing
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: while Ben Affleck was still... batman yeah he was going
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: to do one that was essentially a crime you know
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: mystery type of thing it was going to focus more
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: on that.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: But it was going to be within the snyder verse.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: And yeah it was still going to be part of
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: that universe and he was going to direct it as
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: well so i thought they had the carryover of that
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: script that like got then handed off to matt reeves
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: and then so i mean was that part of that
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: or was there an in-between one that became the one
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: that also got thrown.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: Out There was an in-between one. I can't remember what
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: the villain they were going to go with. Maybe they
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 3: were still going to use the Riddler for the Affleck Batman.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: Or no, no, no.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: It was going to be Deathstroke.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 3: Because they already had him cast. Yeah, they cast Joe Manganiello.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: So it was going to be Deathstroke. But it was
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: still going to be a mystery sort of thing like that.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: But you had somebody who was not only a physical
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: equal to Batman, but an intellectual equal to him as well.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: So he was the worst of both worlds.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: And that's what I was wondering the more I went
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: back and was like, oh, yeah, that was a thing.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: I'd already kind of forgotten about that. Do you think
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: any of this would have worked had we kept with
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: the Ben Affleck version? Thankfully, Snyder himself wasn't directing. And
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: Affleck is a good director. So I don't know. I mean,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: I'm interested in what would have come from that. But
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: I still feel like this treatment is so much better.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: The attack. Character development is much better than what we've
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: seen in Snyderverse. Even Affleck's Batman, we didn't get too
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: much out of him. But what we did see, he's
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: a much different Batman. Oh, yeah.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: There is very little hope. Even when he helps form
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: the Justice League and they do the thing. It's desperation
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: more than anything. It's desperation. And then resurrecting Superman is
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: also a desperation thing. And he still doesn't trust the
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 3: fact that even Superman resurrected will still help.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: So there is no hope. He is a broken man.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: He has lost not only, his family, but he has
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: lost contemporaries and Robin. And the person who did this
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: is still alive, being the Joker. So there's all this loss,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: all this broken.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: He's drinking.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 3: Batman doesn't drink.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: That's Iron Man's job.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: So it's like, this is a far different... Seeing whatever...
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: they would have done with that Affleck Batman movie would
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: have been interesting, but it definitely would not have worked
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: in this.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: It definitely, it would. Yeah. I mean, you could definitely
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: do more of the, cause they kept throwing it out
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: as trying to be sort of film noir and like
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: definitely broken down, lost all hope drinking. That's, that's your
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: hero in a film noir. So that would have been interesting.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: And again, I still, I liked him in the suit.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: I thought what he did was okay. Right.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: Again, we just got so little from him.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But he's also, like, you couldn't do the younger version.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: Because I think Pattinson even reads younger than he is, truthfully. Sure.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: So you can do the younger version of him just
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: kind of getting a start, more or less, in Gotham versus...
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: That's a weird part of that Snyder verse that, like,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: we never brought it up. We just skipped to the
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: fact that Batman's been doing this for 20 years. And, like,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: we don't... There's no backstory on it. Again, we jump
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: in the middle of that story, but we almost need
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: more from that story, and we never got it. So
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: you definitely have to do the older version of Batman.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't know that it would work at
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: all with what happens in this movie.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I'm going to be curious to see
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: with this Flash movie coming out later this year. Having
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: both Affleck and Michael Keaton reprise Batman roles, how are
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: they going to be worked into the story? How are
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: their performances? What's the purpose of them?
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: So we'll see. But yeah, like you said about Pattinson, yeah,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: he reads younger because he is obviously in his probably, what,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: early to mid-30s?
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: He's got to be in his 30s by now. Yeah,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: but he still looks like he's in his 20s. Yeah,
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: he can definitely pull off mid to late 20s. That's
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: good British genetics, man. Brits age very slowly. My grandmother's British.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: She's in her 80s, and she still looks like she's
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: in her 70s. So it's like they age very well.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: You take it if it comes along.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: Well, they come from a very moist climate. You know,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, how often does it rain in England? And
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: they live by the ocean.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: That's where they shot most of this movie. There's a
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: lot of water there. There's a reason it's constantly raining.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: It's a very moisturizing climate. I suppose. I guess. Japanese
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: are the same way. They age very slowly as well.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 3: They live in the water, I guess.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. definitely that helps yeah so there you go there's
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: gonna be something there but yeah i just that leads
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: me to a one of the other questions i wanted
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: to ask you do we because i was coming out
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: of this and that's why i said like i don't
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: even know like i liked so much of it but
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: i'm like it's on the heels of so much batman
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: i was like do we continually need this rebooting of
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: you know a soft reboot an alternate universe reboot like
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: we have so much of it At what point is
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: it overwhelming? Or, again, we're crossing our streams to the
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: point that now we've got two different universes of Batman
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: coming out with movies.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: At the same time.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: Are we counting? Because that was my other one. Do
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: we have too much when we have Bat-Dogs coming out?
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: If we got to the point of having Super Pets movies,
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: have we just got too much out there? Don't get
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: me wrong. It looks fun. I'll probably watch it eventually,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: but I was like, there's a lot of superheroes out there.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: At what point do we hit the oversaturated point?
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: Well, my biggest complaint with our main franchises right now,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: we've got Star Wars has a good franchise going right
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: now with Dave Filoni being their main showrunner. Jon Favreau
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: has kind of taken over a little bit too, but
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: Dave Filoni is the keeper of the torch.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: As the now sitting at home version. I don't know
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: if they know what the hell they're going to do
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: with theatrical anymore. They don't either. Yeah, I mean, everything
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: fell apart there and then they... Luckily, everything came together
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: in the first two runs of The Mandalorian, so now
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, this is working.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: Go with this.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: Go with this. Theatrically, I don't know what they're going
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: There's been talk of a reboot of the sequel series.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: That was just from whiny people.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 3: There was some serious talk, and basically they have their avenue. Basically,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: they built it in in Episode VIII. Basically, there's a
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 3: scene where Rey is looking into this dark mirror or
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 3: something like that and sees an alternate version of herself
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 3: as a Sith, right? That is a device that actually
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: exists in the Star Wars universe, and they've used that
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 3: in storytelling to tell alternate universes or to literally change reality.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, Lord.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: So they could pull themselves a multiverse kind of shit
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 3: in Star Wars and say, That stuff happened over here, yes,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 3: but also... But we're going to go over here. We're
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: going to go over here and do this. I mean,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: I'm pissed off the fact that they.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: John... What's the stuff that played Finn? Yeah.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 3: Okay, they got this great story built in of a
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 3: former stormtrooper who maybe is Force-sensitive, who's going to maybe
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 3: take the role of eventually a Jedi Knight, and they
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: just pissed it away.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: They just dropped the ball. by the next movie. Like,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: he has nothing to do in the second movie with him. Like,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: he's so good and useful and tied to the plot
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: in that first movie. And then the next movie, they're like,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know, you go run over there with some
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: horses or something and we'll come back to you later.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: And then the third movie, he's there, he helps, but like,
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: he's certainly not a main character anymore. Yeah, that was disappointing. Yeah,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: they dropped the ball on that one.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 3: But anyway, going back to our showrunners thing here, so then,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: you know, obviously Marvel's got Kevin Feige.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: Who does DC have? Yeah. Well, and that's been their
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: problem because the closest they had was Zack Snyder and none.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: Of us want that. Yeah. Even Snyder doesn't want that anymore.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: He's like, I put out my four-hour movie.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: There you go. But I'm moving on, guys. I'm done
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: with DC. I'll watch your dumb zombie movie. Isn't he
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: doing another one of those? Well, he did. Or he
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: handed it off and somebody else is doing one in
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: the same universe now. I think basically they did a
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: prequel movie.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: Some of the criminals that were involved in the Army
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: of the Dead movie before the zombies happened. Who cares
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: about that movie? I've seen Army of the Dead. That
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: was fun.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: I don't give a shit about the prequel where there's
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: no zombies. It's ridiculous. Yeah, it's one of those like,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh yeah, I see the Zack Snyder-ness. It
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: is all over this thing. Yeah, yeah, sure. But at
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: least it's watchable. Like, it didn't aggravate me like any
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: of the superhero ones did. Whereas that one's like, yes,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: this is dumb, but at least it's dumb fun, which
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: is Fine on occasion. I don't want it all the time,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: but occasionally it's okay.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 3: It was reminiscent of his Dawn of the Dead remake,
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 3: which basically was taking a great movie and taking all
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 3: the social commentary, all the commentary period out of it,
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: and just, we're going to make this a dumb, fun
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: zombie movie in a mall.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: But that one had a really good writer, and that's
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: why that movie still holds up as the screenplay. You
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: don't really get that in Army of the Dead or
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: whatever the hell the last one he did.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but DC does not have a showrunner, so that's
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: why we're basically throwing every fucking.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: It's a scattershot of, here's something, this might work.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: Again, there's confusion with some of this casting of stuff like,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: we got a Batgirl movie coming to HBO Max, or
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 3: a show, I'm sorry, not a movie, a show coming
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: to HBO Max that will have Michael Keaton reprising his
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: Batman role. What universe does that take place in?
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: We don't know.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: We have Flashpoint that's going to be bringing in Affleck
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 3: and Keaton into the role. What the hell? And then
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: we have, like, okay, this Black Adam movie. It's like, okay, well,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: Black Adam is normally attached to Shazam because he's, like,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 3: an anti-hero.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: He's sometimes a villain, sometimes a good guy. All asshole.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 3: And they're bringing in the Justice Society, which is a
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 3: group of superheroes that existed in, like, the 40s. Like,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 3: they were in the World War II era.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 3: They were the precursor to the justice league. Some of
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 3: those heroes kind of lived on, or they had like, uh, like,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 3: like the.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: Same version of like the star girl universe.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 3: No, that's a totally different version.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like, I don't know if that's because
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: I genuinely liked that show. Like it gets some, I
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: don't know, across the board.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 3: I kind of like both seasons. Yeah, no, I agree
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 3: with you of the CW superhero shows is the best
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 3: one they've got going.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 3: Um, and I hope it doesn't get tarnished like some
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: of the others have been. Um, But yeah, I assume
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 3: this is connected to the Shazam universe.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: But Black Adam wasn't introduced in the Shazam movie. So
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 3: how the fuck?
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: Well, and if you're saying, because again, I knew so
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: little about Black Adam, but I'm like, if you're casting
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: him even as like a semi bad guy or even
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: as to play an asshole, like you cast it wrong.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: Like people love The Rock.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: Like you can't. Yes, we haven't... Since.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: The Scorpion King.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: When's the last time he's been a bad guy for real?
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: And even then, he was such a good guy, we
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: made an all-hearts-all movie out of him. So, like, I
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: don't know. That's just a weird move. Yeah. Because I
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: knew so little about it. So, hearing that, I'm just like, ooh,
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's going to land right.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 3: Well, and that's the thing, too, is that, you know.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 3: I'm just really curious how they're going to work it
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: because there's so little of the footage we've seen from Blackout.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: We've just seen those little snippets from the Super Bowl.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 3: DC are like, hey, we're releasing four movies this year.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: Yay, us. We're not dead, I swear. Yeah, we got Batman.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 3: DC and Warner Brothers is in the business of making
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 3: Batman stuff.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's what works.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 3: Right or wrong, it makes money.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: But look at their.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 3: Comic book releases. There's a Batman title. There's Detective Comics.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 3: And then you've also got Nightwing. You've got Red Hood
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 3: and the Outlaws. You've got Batgirls. You've got, you know,
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 3: there's all these periphery. Joker has his own title.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: And then there's also the Batman miniseries, which usually you've
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 3: got anywhere from... three to four Batman miniseries running at
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 3: any time, where they could be anywhere from three issues
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 3: to 12 issues.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: There's enough Batman fans to kind of make anything at
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: least break even.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 3: It's like whatever they put out there. DC has realized
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 3: the only thing that sells consistently is Batman. Even Superman. Like,
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 3: Louisville and the Kentuckiana area is a Batman area.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: You can sell Batman back issues and new books.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: Left and right all the places. God forbid somebody would
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 3: come in and actually want a fucking Superman book. Because
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 3: you can't sell a Superman book in this town to
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 3: save your life.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was that kid. I was looking at
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: it going, eh, I don't care about him. I didn't
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: have any Superman comics.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 3: Well, even when they try to make Superman interesting, he's
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: still not interesting because he's perfect.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: It's the Eternals again. It's right back to like, I
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: don't care about this guy. Again, he's a super... perfect
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: man from space i'm like batman's a kid who lost
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: everyone and is anti-social and hates everybody he likes gadgets
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: and he doesn't have any power and he has a
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: cool freaking car that's all we i'm like we like
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: all these things like we don't want your big super
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: guy from space so yeah i get it i'm that
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: kid like.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 3: But it's so strange how it used to be like
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: you know the 40s through the 60s was superman yeah
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 3: he was number one And then basically the Batman TV
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: show comes out in the 60s, kind of popularized. It
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: makes it a little fun. It definitely mainstreams it. It
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 3: definitely mainstreams it, yeah.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: It kind of greased the wheels until you get to
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: the 80s.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 3: But then here's the fun thing. It becomes mainstream and
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: very kid-friendly in the 60s. And the comics start following that.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: But then when the comics start dropping off, They go
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 3: back to dark in the 70s. And then it gets
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 3: even darker in the 80s when you get to Frank
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 3: Miller doing Dark Knight Returns in year one. And suddenly
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 3: now we're the Batman we know and love. And Superman
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 3: is long gone because we are well past the age
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 3: of hope and eternal and optimism.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: And because you can't do an alternate version of him.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: There is no bad guy Superman because that's what Zack
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: Snyder did. And it's wrong. If they want to do
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: an interesting Superman story in film, they can do one. Injustice.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: Superman 3, where he fights himself.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: Well, basically what this is, it started with a video game,
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 3: and they fleshed out more in the comics, and they've
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 3: done an animated film that's on HBO Max for Injustice.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 3: But as the story goes, it's the best one to
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 3: do if you want an evil Superman. Because it's basically
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 3: the Joker tricks... Superman into killing Lois uh he basically
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 3: Joker decides I'm done with Gotham I'm gonna go to
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 3: Metropolis and screw around over there and so he does
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 3: and Joe Metropolis and Superman are not prepared for Joker
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: and so Joker literally kidnaps Lois and you know he
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: even invents this like combination of Scarecrow's fear toxin and
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 3: kryptonite to basically make Superman hallucinate so he sees Joker
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: so he's like I'm gonna throw you up in space
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 3: motherfucker and And Lily grabs him and starts going up
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 3: to space. And about right when he hits the stratosphere,
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 3: when there's no oxygen, the stuff wears off and he
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 3: sees there's Lois in his arms. He's killed not only
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 3: the love of his life, the mother of his unborn child.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: There's a lot to process there.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: So that basically starts the breaking of Superman. Like, he
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 3: literally flies back down to Metropolis and rips Joker's heart
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 3: out from his chest.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: But again, at this point, he's not Superman anymore.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: Like, it turns so much so that, like, you've.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: Lost the elements of everything that made Superman Superman. Right.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: It's an interesting story, but, like, you can't long-term do
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: anything with that. Well, that's the thing.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: Basically, they do this, like, where, you know, you've got
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 3: Batman and a group of Because it kind of splits
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 3: the heroes. It kind of does a little bit of
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 3: a Civil War thing. Because Wonder Woman initially sides with Superman.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 3: She's like, yeah, okay.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: I can see your point of view. Sometimes you've got
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: to kill people. Yeah, sometimes you've got to kill people.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: I'm an Amazon. We kill all kinds of people. Exactly.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 3: I'm from a race of warrior women. We've killed people
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 3: for centuries. It's only this recent 20th century bullshit where
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: we're not killing people. We're using the lasso to rope
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 3: up people here. Okay, great.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: You know, but yeah.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 3: But then we've also got another group of heroes led
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 3: by Batman, who's like, okay, we're opposing Superman.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: Like, we, no. And so. I'm team not kill people.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: I just like to punch him in the face. Yeah.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 3: And so basically now you've got this, you know, war
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 3: of heroes that are, you know, Superman versus Batman sort
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 3: of thing like that with, you know, basically heroes and
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 3: villains on either side. But there is still that fight
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: that Bruce thinks, I can bring Cal back.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 3: And so there's still that conflict of, How am I
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 3: going to bring him back? But I can still bring
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 3: him back. And so it's basically, it's a turn and
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 3: redemption story all in the same story. But it's the
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 3: most interesting Superman story to come out in probably the
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 3: last 20 years.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, again, I was running through the constantly overrun
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: with superhero stories thing in my head earlier. And then
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: I thought of the one that's the outlier that nobody
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: ever thinks of. And most people don't even categorize as that.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: But I'm like, no, you go from the get-go and
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: take a different turn on it. Brightburn is amazing.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 4: Ah, yes.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: Because it's beat for beat that exact same story. But
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: what if he's an asshole? Yeah. What if from the
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: get-go that little kid's a jackass? Yeah.
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 3: It's the Superman story as a horror film.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 3: Brilliant.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: What if you gave this kid unlimited power? And he
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: didn't become truth justice in the American way. He did
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: whatever the hell he wanted because he can. He knew
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: he was a guy. And that's, yeah, I was like,
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: that's the only interesting one I've seen in God knows
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: how many years. And I'm like, that takes a different turn.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't understand how that got funded. Like,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: it's too smart. It's too good. It's too interesting. How
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: did this get made?
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 3: Two words, James Gunn.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's, I guess, the selling point because that one
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: was so smart.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: When you bust out Guardians of the Galaxy and that
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 3: movie is as big of a hit and obscure as
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 3: it is, you can do whatever.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: The hell you want to. I guess so.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 3: That's why the man is over in D.C. That's the
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 3: fun thing is that what he's doing with this Peacemaker
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 3: and the Suicide Squad movie is that he is expanding
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 3: the D.C. universe into just in exposition we are name
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 3: dropping heroes that we're not going to see on screen
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 3: we may even never see.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: Half the ones he named drops he kills yeah but
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: look at these guys they're all dead now but.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 3: Even like in the peacemaker show like he named drops
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: batmite he names drops the green arrow you know they
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 3: name drop the atom and they talk about few other
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 3: weird things like that but it's like We may never
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 3: see those people.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 3: You know, he talks shit about the Justice League.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: We saw that. That was hilarious. We saw that.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: You know, but it's like, yeah. It's just, the thing
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 3: is like, James is such a fan and he knows
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 3: his stuff.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 3: He can just bust out. So it's like, okay, now
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 3: we're building a universe with a guy who made one
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 3: movie in a series right now. It's like, maybe we
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 3: need to call James.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Who you sort of scammed from the other one. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: Marvel burned that movie. Came from Marvel and Marvel... again
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: stupid decisions were made but by him and by marvel
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: and so like yeah he's redeeming himself now on the
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: other side he's going around to dc and hey you
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: guys want me to make some superhero stuff for you
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: so and that stuff works again i was thinking that
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: earlier it's like outside of batman the only other thing
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: that always works now is harley like you can kind
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: of give harley whatever you want and people still show
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: up and yeah I don't have a problem. Like I've
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: liked everything she's done with it. Even in the worst
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: of the three movies she's in, she's the best part
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: of it. Like she's great in it.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 3: So I was going to say a guns, a suicide squad.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 3: I liked her the best.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: In that one. I think she was the most, I
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: like her in her movie. Like I think it's weird
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: that they work in the other side story that they
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: do because birds of prey is not all that important
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: to the story as it goes on. But I think
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: she has a really, and an impressive like arc, To
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: somebody that shouldn't have an arc, really. Like, she does
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: have a little expanding of her character or what she
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: can have as Harley.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 3: And that's fairly recent in the books, too. Basically, where
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 3: it's like, you know, for years she was always attached
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 3: as Joker's side piece. Was she his girlfriend? Was she
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 3: a sidekick? Was she a henchman? Yeah. You know, that
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 3: was kind of always the thing there.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: And keeping her like that is what made it so
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: difficult for her.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, of course. But she has an attachment to it.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 3: But then finally she gets her lady balls and says,
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: I don't need this asshole. I can do my own thing. And,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 3: you know, so she dumps the psychotic, toxic boyfriend.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 3: And then hooks up with Poison Ivy, and so now
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 3: they've been a thing off.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: And on in the comics for a long time.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought that's been going on for a while. Yeah,
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 3: and so I think they're on currently. But yeah, so
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 3: that's kind of been her thing now. She's like, no,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 3: I don't need you to wash that man right out
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 3: of my hair.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: With good reason. Joker's not really a caring boyfriend.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and of course Joker's got himself a new girlfriend anyway.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so that's... something else that DC's done that's
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: kind of landed. But other than that, there's so many
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: misses along the way that, yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: to see what they're grasping at as they, as they
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: piece these things together and what has worked and how
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: many things haven't. And again, with no one person in charge,
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: it's kind of, like I said, it's a scattershot of like,
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: we're going to keep throwing things out there and see
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: what lands.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 3: And the thing about DC is that the older characters
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 3: are tougher characters. to play to a new audience. Superman, Aquaman,
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 3: Wonder Woman, they're tougher to work in.
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: They're dorky.
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 3: They're kind of dorky.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: They're kind of dorky.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 3: It's the newer heroes and villains that have come along
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 3: since like the 80s and 90s and beyond the.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: Darker stuff because you can give them you know again
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: they were all so squeaky clean before like everybody was
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: Superman you know Batman was the only one that was
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: grumbling in the background there but everybody in the old
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: Justice League was like yay let's go help people and
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: like that doesn't play in today's world you.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 3: Know but if you take a group like the Suicide
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 3: Squad and you know make a wacky movie out of
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 3: them with a body count yeah okay or if you
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 3: take you know the Titans series where you've got all
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 3: the teen sidekicks that grow up become a little darker
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 3: and have Basically mommy and daddy issues because of the
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 3: way they were treated by their contemporaries. Or they've got
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 3: other issues with their own lives or else. So you've
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 3: got a younger cast of heroes there and a lot
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 3: more interesting psychology. You know, it's like you've got basically
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 3: a Batman, the original Batman sidekick, who's got a lot
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 3: of issues.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 3: You've got a Superboy who's basically a clone of Superman
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 3: and Lex Luthor.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: So at any point in time, he could go the
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: other way. Multiple daddy issues.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 3: He could go either way, you know. And so you've got,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 3: you know, some odd characters in there. So you've got
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 3: far more connections with the younger group. That's why when, like,
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 3: the late 70s and the 80s, the Teen Titans book
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 3: outsold Batman. Most everything else on the roster because it
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 3: was something new, something fresh.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: And you're appealing to kids. Before those kids grew up
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: and became old men who buy comic books, it was
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: a kid's market. That was what they wanted to see
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: was somebody like them.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 3: That's why I think DC is starting to get more
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 3: successes when they get in the periphery.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: Forget Superman.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 3: Forget Batman.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: Forget Wonder Woman. There's only so much you can do
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: with that.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 3: You've got a shitload of other characters. It's like, let's
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 3: do a proper Green Lantern. Because, okay, yeah, you've got
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 3: Hal Jordan, who's the older guy. But it's like, the
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 3: Green Lantern core has so many other... Like, Jon Stewart
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 3: is your very stoic, very regimented kind of guy. But
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 3: he's also an architect, so he's got a bit more...
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 3: range with what he could do with the ring. And
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 3: then you've got, later on, you know, the Kyle Rayner,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 3: who's an artist. There's a horse out there somewhere. I know,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 3: I've seen him.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's all kinds of weird creatures out there. Where's
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: the horse flying around with his lantern?
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 3: But you've got, like, you know, there's the lantern that's
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 3: a cat. There's the lantern that's everything. Well, the cat lantern,
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 3: he's part of the red lantern, so basically their emotional
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 3: aspect is rage. His story is really, his name's Dexter,
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 3: but his story is really sad because basically he was
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 3: a cat from Earth, normal house cat, and aliens came
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 3: to Earth and doing stuff. And basically the house that
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 3: he lived in was A, destroyed, and his entire family
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 3: was killed. And so he was very sad and angry
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 3: about this. And basically the Red Ring was needing a
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 3: new owner, picked him up, and boom, there you go.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 3: Now you got a cat who is a pissed off
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 3: cat who's now a Red Lantern.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, cats have a bad enough attitude anyway. You
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: don't need to give them unlimited power. Like, that's trouble.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 3: And it's based on rage. So the angrier he gets,
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 3: the stronger he gets.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: Or, you know, but, yeah. Green Lantern's a tough sell.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: That's one I read a lot as a kid. And
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: I liked it in the page form and even, like,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: animated it kind of worked when he was on Super Friends. But, like,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: trying to make him real world, it's hard. Like, it's
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: just such a weird set of powers. I don't know
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: how to not make it look dorky. And in our
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: one try, it looked pretty dorky. Yeah, that wasn't a
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: great try. Bad CG didn't help it any. But still,
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: even with good CG, I'm like, some of this stuff
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: is just kind of dorky. That's what you're fighting against
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: with a lot of the old heroes.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 3: And supposedly we're getting a Green Lantern series for HBO Max.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 3: But that's been talked about for about the last six years.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's, again, like I read so much
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: of the, it was Green Lantern, Green Arrow. And it's like,
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: of those two, who's immensely more powerful? But who have
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: we had several incarnations of? Like, we had two decent
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: runs on TV of Green Arrow that people really responded
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: to and liked and liked. He has no skill set, basically,
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: other than being a good archer. He doesn't have superpowers.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 3: He's Batman with a bow and arrow.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: But he's grounded. Yeah. He's a real guy and he
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: has problems and people will tune in for that. Whereas
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: you've got all the powers of the world when you're
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: Green Lantern and nobody cares about that. So, again, we
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: kind of steer more towards the darker, more real world people.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: And that's how we got Batman this week. Yeah.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 3: One of the things, too, is that the Lanterns, they
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 3: later on got other more grounded characters. Like Jessica Cruz
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 3: is a great example. Former police officer who is, basically,
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 3: she's on a case or, like, a home invasion. And, basically,
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 3: she's attacked by a criminal, put in the hospital for
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 3: a while. After she gets out, she has a lot
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 3: of psychological trauma and, basically, like, becomes, like, she's a shut-in. Like,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 3: she quits the force, won't leave her house, something like that. And, somehow,
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 3: she gets a ring and overcomes her fear and becomes
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 3: one of the best Lanterns they've had. So, she's got
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 3: a great backstory. and she's a more recent lander she's
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 3: only been around for maybe like less than a decade
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 3: so yeah I mean that's you know there's potential there
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 3: but yeah they have interesting characters that have good psychology
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 3: they could use they just aren't no and they need
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 3: somebody to bring that up so and I'm at least
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 3: glad with this Batman film we've got in our psychology
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 3: we got every aspect of the Batman that we know
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 3: and love from the comics and we got it in
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 3: one movie yeah and we've never seen that before which
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 3: is just That was the thing. It was just one
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 3: thing after the other. It's like, oh, hey, we're getting,
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 3: you know, the detective side of him. We're getting the tinker.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 3: We're getting the broken boy. You know, sort of thing
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 3: like that. But, like, we're getting, like, new aspects, too. Like,
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 3: he's making mistakes. You know, fear. You know, him jumping,
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 3: almost jumping off the building. That's some legitimate fear right there.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 3: You know, or like kind of the, he's not the
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 3: smartest guy in the room. You know, like he is,
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 3: but when the Riddler shows up, he's no longer the
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 3: smartest guy in the room. So there was a struggle there.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 3: So it's like, yeah, I've just, they just nailed it.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 3: I'm really excited about where this series is.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: Going from here. It is, yeah. I think they said
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: they had signed him for a three-picture deal, so we
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: do know there's probably two more coming unless something goes horribly,
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: horribly wrong. So, yeah, it is interesting what they can
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: do with this. Again, not just Batman, but what they're
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: building this Gotham into and this set of potential villains. And, yeah,
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: they're building their own little universe here that is pretty
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: detached from the other stuff going on in DC, really.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: Like it, it doesn't seem like the same universe that
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: anything previously has come. And that's, that's exactly, that's good. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 3: That is exactly the point they made is like, this
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 3: is not part of the Snyder versus this is.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: Our own thing. Yeah.
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 3: Matter more. So I think I've heard rumblings that HBO
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 3: max is going to have a, a series that's going
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 3: to be in the GCPD kind of similar to the
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 3: Gotham show, but basically in this one where they focus
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 3: on Gordon and, And I'm sure finally getting into the
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 3: Harvey Bullock character and the Renee Montoya, other detectives that
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 3: are highlights within the GCPD. But apparently we're also getting
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 3: a Penguin series that focuses on his rise to power.
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 3: Which again.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I just worry with anything when we start oversaturating.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: Because this is concentrated and we just touch on that stuff,
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: it's good. If you can flesh it out and do
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: it right, that's great. Sure. But sometimes, again, if you're
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 2: throwing too much. It could be too much, yeah. Too
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: much out there, it gets overwhelming and or you just
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: start half-assing some of the stuff because you're busy focusing
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: on this instead.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 3: Well, if they stick with the Marvel Disney, you know,
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 3: formula and do like six episodes in an hour long series,
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 3: that's plenty.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 3: Don't do 13. Like, you know, we're still doing 13
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 3: episodes of Titans and 13 episodes of Stargirls and we
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 3: need to do 13 episodes unless you really need to
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 3: do 13 episodes yeah you can do it in six
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 3: to eight and be.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 2: Perfectly yeah if you plan it out if you know
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: what you're trying to do and and polish it before
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: you throw it.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 3: Out there yeah don't make it up week to week.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: No have a plan yeah i think i have a
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: plan execute then.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 3: Film yeah so yeah but so we could get a
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 3: little more fleshing out of the world and i i
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 3: kind of hope that would be the case so basically
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 3: we don't have to do all the fleshing out introductions
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 3: in the films. We can just kind of get to
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 3: the point.
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: I was trying to think, is there anything we haven't
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: addressed in this new movie?
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 3: I think the one that we talked a little bit
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 3: about the production design and how Gotham itself looks and
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 3: always be raining. I have to address the lighting in
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 3: this film.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 3: Because I've been extremely critical in the last several years
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 3: of this new trend of using natural lighting and everything.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 3: And we can't turn a light on in anything and
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 3: everything's dark. This is a dark, It's a dark movie, yeah.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 3: Gritty film. I would compare this to Seven, the film Seven.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 3: You know, Brad Pitt, Morgan Freeman.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: That's a dark and grimy movie. And very rainy. And
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: that city is essentially.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 3: Hell at that point. And it's also always raining.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're getting dangerously close to that.
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: This one, yeah. But you can see things.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's points, okay, Batman's in the shadows, but
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 3: then when he starts stepping in the light, you can
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 3: start to see him, and then when he's full into
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 3: the light and kicking ass, you can see him. Or
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 3: how about the scene towards the end where he's in
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 3: the 44 Club, and it's completely dark, and the only
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 3: time you can see light is when the machine.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: Gets thrown off. But you can still see him kicking ass!
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: Because again, it was so well thought out, and it's
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 2: just like, this is what we're still gonna have each
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: moment where there's ass kicking lights up and then it's
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: back to the darkness and he again he's batman he
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 2: just appears into the darkness and then the next guy
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: comes up takes him out like that Yeah, that was
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: so well executed.
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 3: But there's so many rooftop scenes. We're getting into the
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 3: pre-dawn hours. We can start to see a little bit
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 3: of everything. The lighting, the production design, my hats are
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 3: off to you in this film because you did it.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: It looks good. Yeah.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 3: The Snyder films were way too dark.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 2: And their lighting. They did the same thing. They did darkness.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 3: They did rain. And it's still too fucking dark.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: You can't see anything.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 3: They did it in this one. So thank you.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you. And knew how to shoot the
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: action scenes. Again, there's a decent amount of fights throughout it.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: And like, They're never overly... Again, the flashiest one is
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: probably that one, the strobe effect. But other than that,
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: we see a good amount of Catwoman fighting, too. And again,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: it's pretty grounded. It's like real-world fighting. You could train
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: yourself enough to be able to do that. It doesn't
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: do anything too ridiculous and over-the-top. Again, the most extreme
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: we get is Batman throwing himself off a building. But again,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: he's Batman. He can do that. But yeah, so much
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: of the fighting is just kind of real-world... Just, like,
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: if you're trained enough, you can get into a fight
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 2: like that and kick people's ass. And, like, that's what
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: usually happens is, like, we've got the regular criminals and
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: thugs that, like, are usually pretty easily dealt with when
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: you hit Batman, who knows what he's doing, or even Catwoman,
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: who's obviously trained.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 3: Initially, the T1E' s film, The Raid, I think has been highly,
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 3: that and the John Wick movies, I think have been
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 3: highly influential on how action movies are done today.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 3: Because especially if you go back to, like, the Daredevil
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 3: Netflix series. Like, they always had, like, a hallway fight
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 3: and stuff like that each season. But those were very kinetic,
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 3: very brutal, very real-world kind of stuff. You fought with
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 3: whatever you had on you or near you or whatever
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 3: was available. If there's a wall there, that's... You're going
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 3: through that wall.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: That's somebody.
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 3: That's the surface.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: You're going into it, yep. Yeah, so.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 3: We're getting this very kinetic sort of fighting, and we
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 3: get that a lot in this movie, more so than
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 3: you get in a lot of the Marvel movies. Like,
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 3: Marvel hasn't really adopted it just yet. Maybe we'll see
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 3: when we get Blade, you know, or if we try
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 3: to reboot the Punisher, do a little more Daredevil, something
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 3: like that, more of the street-level heroes.
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 3: For the big guys, we haven't quite seen that yet. But, yeah,
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 3: we definitely got that in this Batman movie.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think all of that plays out pretty well.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: It does. Again, yeah, I left... Not 100% knowing what
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 2: to do with it, but again, because I think I
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: was processing more of the bigger stuff of like, why
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: another Batman? Why another kind of a reboot? Why another
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: alternate universe timeline from what's going on here? And then
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: once you stop and throw all that out and just
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: focus on what we did get, it's solid. It's like
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: so much of what's done is done the way it
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 2: needed to be done.
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 3: This is probably the most, I would say, most comprehensive
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 3: Batman movie because we got introductions we you know we
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 3: went past familiar you know it's like much like the
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 3: spider-man movies we don't need to see uncle ben die
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 3: and the great power sort of you know responsibilities sort
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 3: of lines and him getting bit by the spider we
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 3: don't need to see all that we know all that
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 3: yeah we got a little bit of a twist and
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 3: far from home from that story but still we didn't
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 3: need to see the traditional one same with this i
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 3: didn't need to see martha's pearls falling no you know
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 3: i didn't need to see you know joe chill in
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 3: the in the shadows and i love the reference too
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 3: like You know, Falcone basically hired the dude, you know,
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 3: which that's how it plays out in year one. You know,
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 3: it's like Falcone basically hired the guy to kill Thomas
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 3: Wayne because he was doing stuff he didn't like.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 3: And it was just some thug.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: He was not important.
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 3: He was just some dude. And it took Batman decades.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 3: He figured out who Carmine Falcone was in his involvement
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 3: before he actually figured out who pulled the trigger.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 3: Because he was that least important. When he found Joe Chill,
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 3: he was living in a barely what you would call
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 3: an apartment. It had four walls and a roof and
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 3: a door, but it wasn't livable. This was a dirt, poor,
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 3: scum of the earth kind of guy. His brightest moment
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 3: was not his brightest moment. He got little to nothing
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 3: for that.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: Well, and this one is, again, takes itself very seriously
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: and real world and grounded. We at least had a
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: little moment where you can see he's having fun with it.
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: And Matt Reeves is a fan. Yeah. The bust in
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: the house was so funny. And again, like half the
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: people sitting around me probably had no idea what it was. Because, again,
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: the thing that was kind of cool, the showing that
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: I went to was a decent amount of people. But
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: the people next to me were different. Probably early 20s female. Okay.
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, you probably wouldn't have gotten that years ago.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's a much broader group that you're dealing
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: with now. Also, a lot younger people are drawn to it. So, yeah,
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how many got the bust reference. Yeah.
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: But it was kind of good to see it bringing
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: in new people and new, you know... fans for what
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: now is a totally different franchise i.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 3: Know there was a lot of fun easter eggs but
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 3: yeah i definitely there was shakespeare bust in there i
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 3: was like there we go there we go thank you
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 3: it's sitting behind alfred where he's doing the thing.
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah again didn't hammer you over the head with
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: it it's just there if you're an old person and
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: you get the reference but yeah that was funny so
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: i did like that yeah.
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 3: Definitely after seeing matt reeves do what he did with
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 3: the planet of the apes franchise i'm like oh Yeah,
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 3: take Batman, dude.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: Take it.
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 3: You made the apes cool. I'm sorry. Growing up, I
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 3: was not a fan of the Planet of the Apes franchise.
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I was a sucker for those.
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 3: I thought it was kind of hokey.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: To some extent, I could see that.
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 3: I got my own hokey. People think Flash Gordon's hokey
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 3: is all shit, and it is.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 3: I still love it. But that was my hokey.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: So, yeah.
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 3: But, yeah, so what Reeves did with those three films, like, dude,
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 3: you made those cool.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, those last two are kind of his. And, like,
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: I feel like those, the first one is the clunkier
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 2: one of the bunch.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 3: It is, yeah.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: So, like, that second one I think is amazing. Like,
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: it is so... immersed in ape culture. And people are
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: barely even part of the story. And like, that's the
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: most solid of the bunch.
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 6: I think.
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 3: Well, I love when we get to the third one. Basically,
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 3: you got crazy Woody Harrelson, you know, as the, you know,
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 3: the last general of humanity. And he's just ape shit himself. Like, yeah,
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 3: apes should go kill that guy. It's like, we don't
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 3: need humans anymore.
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: We're done. But yeah, I forgot. They said now that,
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: now that he's done this movie, they're, Only those two
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 2: people that have done Apes movies and Batman movies. It's
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 2: Tim Burton and Matt Reeves. Wow. And I was like, yeah,
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: not quite the same run. Tim Burton did such a
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: great job. People were just like, one is all we needed.
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: People love it so much.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 3: You know, his remake, I was with it for the
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 3: most part. And then we get to that ending.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: I'm like, really? Really. I was fine with the ending.
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: It's the whole rest of it I have. I mean,
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: the hero of that movie is the makeup people. Like,
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 2: it looks amazing. Like, the makeup they did on the
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: apes is just phenomenal. The rest of the story is
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: relatively dumb. At least they tried to do something different
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 2: with the twist ending version.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I still wish they would have picked somebody better
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 3: than Wahlberg.
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 2: That's the main problem. He's just... Again, he can do
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: some roles, but like what was needed of him is
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 2: not there in that eight.
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 3: Like I enjoyed him a lot in Uncharted, but that's
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 3: because he gets to be snarky and use a lot
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 3: of comedy. And he's a little bit of a shyster
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 3: sort of thing like that. So he gets to have
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 3: a little fun with the role. But when he's playing
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 3: the straight laced, all American, you know, ace hero, he's
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 3: wallpaper paste. He's boring as shit.
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There was a lot of off moves in his
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: career at that point. So. At least now he kind
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: of knows. He just usually does like your all-American based
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: on a true story. That's become his thing now. So
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: it was kind of weird that he's in Uncharted because, yeah,
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 2: that's sort of not what he's doing anymore.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 3: Well, at least with that one, it's like, you know,
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 3: he's the older kind of, you know, history thief basically
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 3: and sort of thing like that. And then, you know,
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 3: Tom Holland's, you know, Nathan Drake comes in. He's the
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 3: younger guy. And so there's a bit of a mentorship
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 3: buddy sort of thing like that. But then, of course,
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 3: you know, Sully's not quite a hero because he's still
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 3: a thief. He still wants a lot of money, and
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 3: sometimes he stabs his friends in the back to get it.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 3: So it's a little more interesting role, and it worked
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 3: for him. He can kind of do that.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, other times I've just seen him like, no, no.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 4: Well.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: We've gone all across the board on this one. We've
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: hit all kinds of stuff. I was thinking we should
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: throw it out there if people like our rambling about
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: superhero movies. If you've got other stuff you'd like us
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: to do. We've done pretty recent stuff lately. But yeah,
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: if you want us to delve back into older, weirder
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 2: superhero stuff, throw it out there and we can see
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: what we can do. Or series or whatever else.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 3: Except for Condor Man.
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 2: I'd like to avoid that one at all costs. I
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: have the book if you'd like to read it. I
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 2: don't know how to read, but I do keep accumulating novelizations.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 3: You've told me about this book. Now, if we want
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 3: to talk a superhero movie to really discuss Mr.
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: Freedom. All right.
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 3: Or is it Captain Freedom? or it's one of those
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 3: weird aussie like uh genre movies that came out like
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 3: in the mid 80s to the early 90s it's like
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 3: it's a superhero movie it's a comedy it's a social satire.
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 2: And it's a musical Okay.
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 3: It is a movie that deserves to be on a
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 3: substance of choice, whether it be alcohol or anything else.
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 3: It's a better experience that way, but it is a movie.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 2: I think we'll need to hear people requesting that one.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: If people really want us to watch that one, I'm
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 2: willing to watch anything, but sometimes.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 3: I don't get to pick that one because we're the
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 3: only ones talking about it.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's many a movie I've chosen over the years.
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, hey, nobody's ever seen this movie. Want
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: to hear us talk about it? No? All right. Well,
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: we're going to anyway.
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 3: I can call my buddy Andy, and he would totally bet.
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 3: But he would want to join us in the episode,
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 3: matter of fact, because he's the one who introduced me
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 3: to the movie. Yep.
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: So, I don't know. Find some weird superhero movies, and
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: maybe we will discuss them. Absolutely. Just let us know. Otherwise,
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: I think we've addressed Batman this time around. I think
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: we sure have. It's a three-hour movie. It's a three-hour episode. Thankfully,
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 2: this one isn't, but we've certainly done that in the past.
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 2: We have. Let's not do it now. We'll wrap it up. Otherwise,
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 2: that about does it. We will return next time saying,
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 2: thanks for listening.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 3: See you guys.
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 4: I've all become my pets And I'm living off of
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 4: grass And the tripping's from the ceiling It's okay to
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 4: fish Cause I don't have any feelings.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 5: Something out the way Something out of the way Something
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 5: out of the way Something out of the.
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 4: Way Underneath the bridge, the tarp has sprung a leak.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 5: And the animals I trap.
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 4: Have all become my pets. And they live in off
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 4: of grass. And drippings from the ceiling It's okay to
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 4: fish Cause you don't have any feelings.
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 5: Something out of the way Mmm Something out of the
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 5: way Yeah.
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 4: Something in the way.
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 3: Something in the way. Something in the way.
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 2: It just seems like such a good option for, I mean,
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: what worked about, if you're going to pick a thing
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: that he could be involved in, doing a Batman Beyond
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: at this point would be really as like the older
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: grizzled Batman. Like, now's the time. Pull Michael Keaton back. But,
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 6: This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 6: edited by The Oddity Studios, with opening music performed by
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 6: The Empires. For more on how to sponsor or support
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 6: the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com.
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 2: Talk hard! This program is a proud member of the
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 2: Battleship Pretension Fleet.