Latest / Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler / Writing Your Way Through with Kristin Hannah

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Writing Your Way Through with Kristin Hannah · Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi, Catherine, Hi, Chelsea, how are you hi.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: I'm very excited about our guest today because she's an author,
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: and all my friends up here are reading her books
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: knowing and anticipation that she's coming on. So this is
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: an exciting time, you know how I much? I love
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: authors and I what's going on? What's going on? Well?
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: I had a whirlwind week. I was in Deer Valley
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: skiing this week. I was performing and then I went
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: to the Oscar parties to put my get my dress
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: and my glam on. And my friends and Whistler are like,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: every time we see pictures of you dressed up, We're like,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: that can't be you. That's not her. I'm like, that's
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the real me.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: You do look nine feet tall in these column dresses,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: you would look extrameline feet tall.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: I know yesterday I was skiing, I got these I
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: got this new ski off it sent to me from Bogner.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Shout out to Bogner Skiwear, thank you for that. And
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: my friends are like, oh my god, your body, your ass,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: your legs. I was like, keep it coming, girls.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I am also loving all the outtakes from your Your
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: birthday is shut as well. Popping up up here and there.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I'm like, damn, girl, you've been working out.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Her niece really really got a lot of attention, and
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I think she likes being in a baby beorn on
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: my back because she was just so chill and relaxed,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: and I was like, God, do you love skiing as
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: much as your mama does?
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Her legs sticking out. She was like in heaven.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: She's like attacked. She looks like she's been taxidermid, which
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: is my type. But Doug, I just I mean, everyone
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: wanted to have Doug this last weekend. All my friends
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: and Whistler are like, who's taking care of Doug? Bernice
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: is popular too, but Doug is like other level. Because
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I don't I have to keep you know, and I'm
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: trying to split them up so I don't have to
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: ask somebody to watch two of my dogs. But Doug
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: is ridiculous. Did I tell you about his diarrhea?
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: You did?
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Well, so now he's diaryiea Doug.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: He's feeling better after his little say it's be He'll
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: still be diarrhea Doug in my heart forever. Hey, Chelsea,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: here's a question for you. Was there a book that
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: everybody loved that you just could not get through.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of books. Catch twenty two Midnight Children
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: by Sam and Rushdie. I could never finish that. I
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. By
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: the third I was like, what, there's a man in
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: a boat I don't wear. So I didn't read that.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: But growing up, I think the most seminal book was
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: The fountain Head by Ann Rand. I read that like
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: three times. I'm not sure really what I got out
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: of it, but I liked it and I liked rereading it.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, fountain Head. That was a good That was
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: like an eighteen year old book. Yeah.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Well, clearly you didn't get your politics from that, so
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: that's a good things.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: No, I did, and I don't even think I understood
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: what I was reading, but I liked the idea. I
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: liked some of the ideas in it. And then when
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I would read book discussions on it, I'm like, oh wait,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what happened. I was like, wait,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: my comprehension skills were not where they needed to be.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, I was Pachinko and my mom like
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: loved this book. Everyone loved this book. But I just
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I couldn't like lock In with the Carrick. So I
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: think I'm gonna have to watch the show of that,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: because I've heard it's really really good. There's like a
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: series of it.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember reading Pichenko. I really liked Pachinko, but
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I know, yeah, I tried to watch the show, but
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I couldn't get into it. I don't like one. But
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: they make books into shows. It's one or the other
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: with me, not both for sure.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, we have an amazing guest today. Actually,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: my mom and my mother in law are really excited
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: about her.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes, our guest today is the best selling
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: author of The Women, The Great Alone, The Nightingale, and
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Flyerfly Lane, Flyer Fly Lane, and currently has the number
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: one selling book in America, which is called The Women.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Please welcome author Kristin Hannah.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: Hi, guys.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: First of all, she has the number one book in
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: the New York Times well pretty much every bestsellers list
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: and booklist is right now. Number one is The Women.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: And you may know Kristin from her other books like
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: The Nightingale and The Great Alone, which Kristin, I have
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: to say that subject matter couldn't be less appealing to me,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: and I could not put that book down like I
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: have sent that book. I sent two books out this
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: year as Christmas gifts to everybody. One was The Grade Alone,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: and then there was another book. And people, I mean everyone,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: all my friends in Whistler are all of them. We
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: just like referenced it all the time because it was
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: so painful, painful and traumatizing and beautiful and all of
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: the things that you're known for. So let's talk a
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: little bit about all your inspiration for these books. There's
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of common themes that you talk, you write about.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: You write a lot about PTSD. You write a lot
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: about the war, whether it's Vietnam or World War Two.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I think, oh no, no, the guy in Great Alone
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: was from he had PTSD from Vietnam, right, So what
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: made you so interested in that topic?
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: You know? I think, actually, Chelsea, it's because I was
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: a kid during the Vietnam War, and you know, it
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: was such a fraught time and there was so much
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: anger and political division. And I had a best friend,
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: you know, we were like in third grade, and her
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: father served in Vietnam and was shot down and never returned.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: And so I've always sort of just remembered that and
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: thought about it, and we wore these prisoner war bracelets
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: where we had the serviceman's name and the number that
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: they were or the date that they were lost on
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: your wrist. And the idea was that you would wear
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: this until he came home. So I wore it for
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: decades waiting, And I think it just when I saw
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: how the Vietnam vets were treated when they came home,
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: it just really stuck with me. And you know, and
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: obviously we've had wars since then, but I just think
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: it's so important that if we're going to ask people
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: to go off and serve their nation and put themselves
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: in harms way for us, that we care for them
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: when they come back. And so I keep coming back
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: to this issue that means a lot to me.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: M Yeah, it is pretty it's a pretty embarrassing when
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: you find out what vets have when they returned, and
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: how many of our homeless population are vets who aren't
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: taken care of by our own government who they sacrifice for.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: It doesn't I mean, how do you look at it, Like,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: how old were you when the Vietnam War was happening.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: Well, let's see, I was thirteen, I think when it ended,
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: and so I was, you know, like in kindergarten or
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: something when it started.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Jesus, that's a long time. When you compare the way
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: we are now with everything that's going on in the
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: world now, and you think back to that time, what
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: strikes you in terms of this position our country is in,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: or the temperature of our country maybe.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Well, the political division that we're seeing now and that
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: we were seeing, you know, during the pandemic and for
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: the last you know, several years, felt very much like Vietnam,
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: which is why, you know, I think I chose this
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: moment to write the book. But it was a very
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: different time because in terms of the political division, in
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: simplest terms, you could say that it was sort of
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: young versus old, and left versus right. And you know,
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: there was this whole movement, the whole Flower power, Make
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Love not War, you know, all of that kind of stuff.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: So the what we were fighting about was much I think,
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: much more philosophical.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, right, philosophical, same kind of divisions, but people,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: there's very it was very disparate like being in that war.
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  Speaker 2: First of all, the way that our government lied to
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: us over and over again about what was happening over there,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: which I'm sure still happens every single day in our
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: country in whatever war we're in. We're being lied to.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: So that's disappointing. But in terms of like, I want
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: to talk a little bit about your writing process because
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: you're so prolific. I mean, I don't know. I can't
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: believe you when you DMed me and said have you
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: read my book yet? I'm like, you wrote another book
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: when I just got done with the last one. So
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about that because how do you
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: what is your process and how long does it take
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: you and what do you do you every day?
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: Well, so for you, okay, so we have to go
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: back a little bit. I started this career. I used
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: to be a lawyer, and I started this career because
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: I got pregnant and had a baby and wanted to
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: be an at home mom. So I wanted something that
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: I could do that was sort of for myself but
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: was at home, which meant that in the beginning, you know,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: I wrote during nap time, and I've just sort of
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: continued on and so for years I wrote a book
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: a year, and then a couple of times I would
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: take two years, like Firefly Lane. If I wanted to
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: sort of redefine myself, and I think when I reached
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: a certain age, I and with it corresponds to writing
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: The Nightingale. I started going three years between books. What's
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: weird about now is the books keep selling. I mean,
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: like The Grade Alone. I mean it was out in
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, but people were still discovering it in twenty
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: twenty two. So it sort of feels like I'm having
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: another book instantly, But really, it's been three years.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: And did it hit number one? Was it very popular
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: when it came out or did it gain its popularity
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: after a couple of years?
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: The Great Elege So it hit number one, and you
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: know it was popular. Actually, you know, the Great Alone
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: popularity surprised me. I didn't actually because, as you point out,
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: it was a dark subject matter and you know, it
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: was it was kind of difficult. So I've been really
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: surprised that people have responded to both the beauty and
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: the harshness of Alaska and the sort of difficulty of
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: that relationship.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Have you you spent time in Alaska?
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Right? Yeah. My family's business is sport fishing lodges, and
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: they have one in Alaska. They have a bear camp
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: and a fishing camp.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess you. I mean, I don't see how
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: you could possibly write about that, that aloneeness unless you've
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: experienced it. And when anyone wants to talk about a
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: loneeness or feeling alone, they need to read that book
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: and think about elast because that's when you're really fucking alone.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is one of the most unfeeling back
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: drops I could ever ever imagine. Okay, so what's your
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: process writing?
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Do you write every morning? Do you write it? You
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: write nap time?
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: What?
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: That's what you used to do? But I mean, are
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: you disciplined? You must be.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I am really disciplined. I mean it's a it's
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: a two prong thing. First of all, it's a job.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: And you know, I remember like when I was a lawyer,
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: nobody said, hey, do you feel like practicing law today?
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: You just went in and sort of, you know, did
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: your job. And so that's what I try to do.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: And in terms of, you know, the writing process, I'm
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: asked all the time, well, what about when inspiration and
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: when you need the muse to show up and when
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: you need to be inspired? And I really find that
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: the mews shows up when I sit down, and you
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: know that if I go in search of it, I'm
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: more likely to find it. So yes, I'm very disciplined.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: I sit down every day. I write pretty much from
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: seven to four or how much with my husband and
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: you know, and then I write. And then what I
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: do now is I take months off where I'm not writing.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: So I you know, I work fifty hours a week
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: when I am writing, and then I'll take you know,
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: two or three months off and travel or hang out,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: drink wine whatever.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you on that. There's a time, like
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: you know, to harvest, and then there's a time for
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: so you know, there's a time for planting, and there's
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: a time for harvesting. And if we don't, like as creatives,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: if people, if we're not filling ourselves up with real life,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: it's like then what we have? What kind of output
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: do we have? I'm with you on the three months off.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: I love taking my vacation time very seriously because I
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: need to experience things and you know, experience stories that
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: I can then put back, spit back out and regurg
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: you to it's true. And without that life experience, it's like, well,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: what you know, I think that is so important, and
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: people don't give, especially American culture. It's not about that.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: You're not supposed to be taking so many breaks. It's
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: out a hustle, hustle, hustle, But you can hustle and
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: also take breaks. Those two things can work together. What
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: happens when you find out you're number one on the
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: New York Times list.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Well, Champagne is sort of the you know, the first thing,
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: and I think almost it's a great sense of relief.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: It's joyful, obviously, it's exciting. I love all of that,
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: but it's it's mostly just okay. So I think it's
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: probably the same for anyone, for you, for anyone when
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: you get reviews in when you realize that something that
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: you have poured your heart and soul in in private, alone,
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: behind closed doors for years is being embraced by people,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: and for this book even more than number one. What
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: has been so huge is sort of the outpouring of
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: love and support and gratitude really from female and male
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: veterans and their families. And I can't tell you how
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: many you know, women have come up to me crying saying,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: you know, thank you for just reminding people that we
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: matter in the service that we're out there that we're
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: we're working, we're doing our best, and I think you
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: get to an age I'm certainly there now where you
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: realize that remembrance and gratitude matters. You know, you don't
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: want to do all of this in avoid whether it's
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: stay at home motherhood or your job or your creative process.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: I think we all need to be seen.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I love that. Yeah, I think that is the
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: one thing. I think that is the one thing that
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: you know growing up, when you're a kid and you
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: and you are seen. When you feel seen right by
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: a teacher or by your aunt or uncle and not
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: in a creepy way, that really does empower you. Like
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: if someone notices you and notices whatever you're good at
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: and is encouraging. I mean, being seen, I think is
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: the number one thing people don't feel right. When people
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: feel that kind of tenderness or aloneness or vulnerability, they
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: just feel like they're not understood or misunderstood.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: It can change your life. I mean one teacher coming
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: up and saying, I had a teacher in eighth grade
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: who said, you know what, you have a power here
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: people like you. You don't have to be so afraid
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: all the time, because I went to a million different
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: schools and I was always the new kid in the
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: wrong jeans with the wrong haircut, and so I tried
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: to be invisible. And you know, in eighth grade someone said,
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: you know, hey, you don't have to do that, and
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: it was really pretty life changing.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: I had a teacher who actually passed away this last
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: week named missus Sheckman, and she was my third grade teacher,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: and I always was problematic and she would take me
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: on the weekends to her husband. She hear her husband
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: had a house down the Jersey shore, and she was
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: trying to help my parents. She's like, let me guide her,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: let me help her. Because I was so full of
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: it and angst. I just wanted to be a woman.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: I couldn't handle childhood. I was like, this is so annoying.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: And she would take me and she would sit with
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: me and just be like, do you understand You're going
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: to do amazing things in this world? Like You're going
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: to be incredible. But it wasn't at a time where
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: I ever thought that I was only eight or nine.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I was like, well, yeah, whatever. I just couldn't And
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: the time that she spent with me, I can't remember
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: anything she said to me, but I know that feeling,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: and it was I felt so cared for and so
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: special that she went out of her way to spend
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: time with me. That I will never forget that. And
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I always think of that when I think of children,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: you know, because I don't have a high tolerance for them,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: so I really have to pick and choose the ones
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: that I want to be around. But it is so
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: impactful to have that kind of influence. Now do you
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: mentor anyone Are you into that in terms of writing,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Like do you help other authors?
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: I do? I do. I haven't helped I haven't worked
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: with a lot of beginning novelists, but I work with,
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: you know, a sort of a big group of us
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: who all sort of came of age at the same time.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: And there's something so powerful. I was going to point
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: out what you were going to what you were saying
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: earlier about children and being you know, mentored like that.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: It's especially important for girls, and I found, like with
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: the women female writers community, there was for a long
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: time this don't ever tell anybody what you're doing, what
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: you're making, what you're getting, you know, keep everything very competitive.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: And so I've got this big group of female friends
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: where we share information now, and that's another thing that's
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: kind of life changing, is women sort of owning their
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: own ambition and coming together to share information that is
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: withheld from us.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which also seems like a newer thing. Females supporting females.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: It's like we finally cracked the code and we're like, oh, wait,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: why the hell are we listening to men tell us
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: to you know, they're the ones that are separating us
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: and making us so competitive. And it feels like a
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: recent thing where women are really showing up for each
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: other and understanding we're not each other's enemy. You know,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: we actually have to stick together and become the most
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: powerful version of ourselves.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, and that's one of the best things I see
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: happening around us now. I mean, when I was a
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: young lawyer, there were very few you know, female lawyers
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: that were partners or you know, we're running the firms
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: or anything, and there was very little mentoring going on,
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: and it all felt very competitive, like there was only
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: room for one at a time. And I think we
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: have all learned how important it is to you know,
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: offer a hand to the people coming to the girls
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: coming up behind us.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you write, I mean there's a lot of female
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: friendships in the books. Obviously, there's always, you know, a
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: strong connection, especially in the Women and the Great Alone,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: you know, that community in Alaska and the Nightingale, and
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: so that must feel important for you to demonstrate, you know, absolutely,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: and that was something you know, Like I said, I
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: moved around a lot, so so childhood friendships are rare.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: And I think it was until I was in college
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: and then a young mother and a young wife and
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: all those things where I really sort of understood this
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: truth that had not been sort of passed along to
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: me anyway for whatever reason. My mom died very young,
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: so maybe that's part of it. But this truth that
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: it is your girlfriends who will carry you through life,
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: who will be there when you know, when the shit
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: hits the fan. It's your girlfriends that you call when
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: you feel like a bad mother. It's your girlfriends when
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: you want to celebrate anything that happens. And I think
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: it's so important because we come together, we witness each
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: other's lives, we are each other's support. In many ways,
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: we're soulmates, you know, with our best friends. And I
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: think that's kind of an idea that is, it feels
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: new even though it shouldn't be.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: I know, isn't that so weird? It's so within us
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: and in our DNA, like as a you know, we're
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: so maternal just by nature. We have to really unlearn
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: all of these things that have been kind of put
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: on us. How old were you when your mom passed?
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: I think it was about twenty four?
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, So how does that affect you? Being a mother?
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Losing your mother at that age?
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: You know, it's hard. I mean it's really hard, and
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: then you have to rely on your dad. And my
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: dad was of course broken at the time as well,
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: we all were, you know, she was so young, forty six,
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: and so at twenty four you don't realize how impactful
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: this is going to be because you are at that
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: age where you think you've got it nailed. You know everything,
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: you know, you're the smartest girl in the room. And
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: so it wasn't until I would say, really almost forty
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: when it really struck me. I didn't know my mother
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: and I had to sort of go and search for her,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: you know, try to find her myself. And I did
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: that the way I do ever every thing, which is
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: through writing and so that's why I wrote the book
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: Firefly Lane, about a woman who is, you know, dealing
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: with breast cancer, because that was my best way to
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: try to figure out, like, what did this look like
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: from her side?
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm curious at how it actually impacts your parenting,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: because you know that you're giving her something that you
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: didn't necessarily get for that long.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean what it does. I think always in
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: the back of your mind is this idea that being
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: a parent is really important, being there and showing up
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: is really important, but also understanding I think that you
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: have a finite amount of time and knowing sort of
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: I guess the peaks and valleys that the relationship you know,
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: will go through. And I just always try, to the
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: best of my ability to never sort of do something
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: that I think is across the line, because you just
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: never know how much time you have.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, Wow, we're going to take a break and
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: we're going to be right back and we're back with
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Kristin Hannah. I'm so happy to have you on the
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: podcast today, Katherine. Do we have some callers we're going
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: to give advice, Kristin, so buckle up.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Our first email really just has to do with recommendations.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Our listeners love books and are constantly asking for more recommendations.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: So Kathy says, my name is Kathy Quinn. I'm from Dublin, Ireland.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I'm about to go on vacation and I would love
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: a list of book recommendations. Kathy.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay, So Kathy, you're not telling me what you
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: actually like to read.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: So no, I tricky.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: There's a book called We Begin at the End by
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: Chris Whitaker that I love. I almost always recommend Shadow
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: of the Wind by Carlos Ruiza Phone And for a
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: vacation read, I mean, Lessons in Chemistry is way too easy,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: so I will go with remarkably bright creatures.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: I have to say I agree with I felt Lessons
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: of Chemistry. I felt like I was reading like a
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: school book, like not a school book, and it was
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: just too light and too easy. I'm like, no, I
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: need it a little bit a step up, no offense.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: So I think Bonnie Garland wrote that, right Armus, Yeah, Garmus, Garmus. Sorry,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: it's a great book. But I also felt that way.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: And also I just got Belly of the Elephant. Loving
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: the Belly of the Elephant.
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: You guys.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Have you guys heard about that book.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: I didn't read that.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: It's going around with my Whistler crew, so they gave
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: one to me for my birthday. So I'm going to
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: get into that as soon as I'm done with the Women.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: But I also would say to our caller, just the
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Great Alone is not ever going to disappoint you if
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: you haven't read that. That is the best page turning emotionally,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: like you're so invested and you feel like you've been
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: spun around the spin cycle and like an a laundromat
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: after you read that, because you are have been through
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: every kind of gamut of emotion and it's just so beautiful.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure many of our listens haven't yet read it,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: but the way that you ended that book was done
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: in such a tasteful, non cheesy way and believable. Like
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I loved that, because sometimes when books have that kind
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: of ending, they can go it's just too much, like
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: it's like almost like a pad com Yeah yeah, and
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: you're like, no, that's not real. But this felt just
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: perfect everything about it from start to finish. It's just
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: blown away.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: I'd see a couple of recommendations of things I've read recently.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: This is an old one, but I just finished Into
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: thin Air, which is John Crackhouer, and he talks about
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: being on Mount Everest during the deadliest year of Everest expeditions.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I also just read Over the Top, which is Jonathan
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: van Ness's first book, and I really loved that. It
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: was really a lot more frank than I expected, and
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: so that was great. But one of my favorites that
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I've read recently is The Square of Sevens. It's by
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Laura Shephard Robinson and it follows a woman in the
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds who sort of does some divination and reads
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: cards for people. It's really really cool and exciting, and
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I will say there is something about the way you write,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Kristin that I found myself, especially with the women, but
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: also with the grade alone, Like you're reading, but you
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: forget that you're reading it. You're just seeing it in
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: your mind. You're just sort of like visually seeing this,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: experiencing the characters, and they're just there their Yemi reads.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: It's pure escapism. You're writing like it's really just takes
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: you away, and which is what you want from a book,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: at least I do.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: But really as I'm writing, it almost feels like I'm
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: watching a movie and transcribing it. It's so you know,
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: fully formed in my head, and so I think that's
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: why I mean, I hear cinematic all the time, and
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: I think I am it's a huge you know, visual person.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Has anyone bought the rights to the grade alone?
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: It is actually in development for whatever that means. And
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: Warner Brothers has just bought the women and it looks
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: actually like the Nightingale may film this year, which is
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: pretty exciting after you know, co and the strikes and
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: everything that we've had to deal with.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's awesome. Congratulations. I love that.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, let's jump to our first caller here. Our
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: first caller is Nicole and she is a wellness coach
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: and writer. She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm writing to ask
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: you about writing. I'm twenty eight years old and have
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: endured a lot in my lifetime and feel called to
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: write about it, but I still have a lot of
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: doubts if my story is enough. Last September I had
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: a personal essay published in The Cut. I lost my
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: dad on nine to eleven, and I'm still searching for
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: who he was. Was the title of it. Right now,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I'm in the final sprint of writing my memoir along
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: with a group of female writers doing the same. I
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: have about twenty five k words down. My goal is
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: to hit forty K, but I can't help but feel
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: stuck and resistant when writing the rest. I've been writing
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: in no particular order, and I feel like my story
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't have the needed beats to flow that other memoirs
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: en compass.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: Ooh.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I've been piecing together memories and scenes and lessons that
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: stand out in my memory from the past twenty or
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: so years. It's been challenging to capture a moment in time,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: so I include all of it. I keep reminding myself
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: that it's just a first draft, but it doesn't make
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: it any easier to sit down and write the hard stuff.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Reading Life Will Be The Death of Me was a
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: beautiful and soul crushing experience. As a reader, I admire
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: how vulnerable you are surrounding the loss of your brother
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Chet and its impact on you. So my question for
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: you is, how do you push past resistance and write
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: about super personal, vulnerable moments from your life and childhood.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: What wisdom can you share from your experience writing previous
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: books and the one you're working on now. Thanks so much, Nicole.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Hi, Nicole, Hi, Hi. You're very lucky because we have
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: a very big author on today. I'm Kristin. I'm going
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: to let you go first because I consider you much
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: more professional than I do myself.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: First of all, I find it extremely difficult to write
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: out of order because you lose the connective tissue you
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: of one moment to the next, and then you're trying
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: to sort of recapture what you were doing before. But
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: if you're writing what you should be writing, you're slightly
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: changed in every single moment, and those need to progress.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: So I would say that first of all, and I
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: would also say that everyone's first draft is terrible and
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: frightening and difficult, and you're sure that it's not good enough,
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: And the point of that is to sit down and
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: to push through and get to the end, because really,
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: only at the end can you look back with clear
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: eyes and see what the best story is and how
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: to tell it. You have to get all of that
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: out of the way first.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I agree with that writing out of order can be
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: frustrating because you kind of lose your tempo, and then
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: I always have to write chronologically. I started this book
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: by just writing essays and then I was like, oh,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: we'll put them together, and I'm like, no, no, I actually
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: have to go in a time order. So I agree
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: with that, and I also think, like, first of all,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: it's amazing that you're sitting down and writing a book.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: So patch yourself on the back for actually even taking
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: on that task. You've set yourself up for success with
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: a group of other women that are also doing the
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: same thing as you. And your first draft isn't going
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: to be the draft that you want, but it's just
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: important to get just keep moving, you know what I mean,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: towards your goal and keep writing and you don't get
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: the answers, like you know, sometimes I'm writing something, I'm like,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: this isn't going to work with this and this doesn't
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: connect to this, and then like sometimes in the middle
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: of the day, it just pops into my head the answer.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Because when you spend enough time being creative like that,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: creativity begets more creativity. So it's just like Kristin was
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: saying earlier, you weren't on the phone yet, but when
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: she sits down and she writes, you have to put
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: the time in for that effort and then it does
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: kind of all come together when it's supposed to. But
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: you're not supposed to be perfect in your first book.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I learned more in my first book and the editing process,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: and I'm on my seventh book. So just all of that,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: like sentence structure and thought structure and where this goes
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: and times and places like all of that stuff. There's
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: so much to learn in the editing process that you
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: just have to know that that is going to be.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I think for me that is the most important ingredient
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: for anything I do, is the editing, whether it's my
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: stand up, whether it's my books or being on TV.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Like you always want to edit to amplify. That's what
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I always think. You don't need to have everything in there,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: but you can put everything down and then you go
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: in and go, this isn't necessary, this isn't necessary, and
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: tighten everything to make it just really like full, juicy
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: and fast, you know, moving, moving, moving.
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: To add on to that, which I think is absolutely true,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: the act of writing is, especially your own story, is
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: so cathartic and so powerful and it changes you and
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: just simply the fact that you undertake this and you
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: write it you know, don't focus too much on is
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: this publishable? Where will this go? What will I do
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: with it? Just sit down and focus on the idea
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: of you telling your story for you, and don't you think, Chelsea,
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: it's just so powerful to do that and getting to
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: the end is the crucial moment. So just keep going.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Nicole, So you've written about losing your dad in this
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: very traumatic way and you've published an article about it.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Is that what you're finding the most difficult to write
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: about or is it some of the other you know,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: connective tissue the other parts of your life.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's kind of revisiting in it and
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: continuing to revisit in revisions and just kind of constantly
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: looking at it or thinking about it. Is like the
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: process of a writer. But I also was diagnosed with
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: leukemia when I was fifteen, so about ten years after
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: I lost my dad, and that's kind of where the
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: story begins. And then I'm going back in time a
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: little bit there with how this relates to the philoss
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: with my dad and how they all kind of come
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: to get So he was wondering, when you're writing about
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: these moments of grief and complicated grief, Like, how do
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: you kind of structure or process you're writing so that
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: you're not feeling that all the time or you're kind
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: of getting back to the present.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I think in any natural like rhythm, you're going
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: to be right. I mean I remember writing the Life
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: will be the Death of Me parts of it, and
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: I was bawling crying writing it. But like anything with grief,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: you're not sitting in it all the time. So you
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: have to be very gentle with yourself, like when you're
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: having those moments, have those moments. That's where the most
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: beautiful stuff can come from, you know, deep pain and grief,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: and so allow yourself the time to sit with that
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: and don't make such strict rules for yourself. Right, You're
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: going to find your own rhythms about things. You're going
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: to find out like when the best time of day
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: is to write. If you haven't already, you're going to
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: find out Okay, I just wrote this, and now I
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: need a break to write something a little bit lighter.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: You're going to get into your rhythm. So just pay
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: close attention to you. When you've had a really productive day,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: be like, okay, what was that that led to that
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: productive day, you know, so you can really just keep
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: cultivating the best habits for you and I'm not worried
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: about it at all. For you, like this is the
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: process and your first book is it can be terrifying,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: so it's just already bold that you're doing it.
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah, the balance between
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: the creativity and then like you know, having to produce
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: something too and having something you know, I want out there.
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: But I think having less pressure and kind of figuring
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: out what works for me is the process I've been
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: on and I can lead into that more.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, well, good luck to you. I can't wait
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: to read your book.
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much. I really appreciate talking to everyone's day.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Thanks to call.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Nicole, take care bye. She seemed like an author.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. And when I first talked to her,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: she's like, oh, well, I you know, I'm a wellness
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: coach and stuff and yeah, I'm not really a rite
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: And I was like, no, you are a writer. I
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: was like that, you know, that's your day job, that's
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: you know, you might have a nine to five.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: But it's just so funny that men will always say
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: like that. You know, it's like we can't ever just
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: lean in, like I'm going to be a writer. I'm
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: writing my first book. It's you know, no, men have
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: no problem. Yeah I'm an author before they publish a
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: fucking thing.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I wish like a we could gift to all women,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: like ten percent of the confidence of like a twenty
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: two year old white guy who's just graduated from college,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Like just ten percent.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: It'd be perfect.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: My nephew Max will start with your confidence.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: Perfect.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Oh and I just wanted to add two for Nicole.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: We chatted about it. She has cancer free now, so
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: she no longer has leukemia and she's doing great. So
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: our next caller is Sarah. Sarah is thirty six, and
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: she's here in La, she says, Dear Chelsea. Last year
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I left my full time copywriting job to pursue my
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: dream of feminist writing. Since then, I've started a weekly
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: newsletter that has amassed a pretty decent following and continues
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: to grow daily. I've also landed a few big byelines
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: on hot feminist topics, writing a book that uses some
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: of my own story to highlight how evangelical Christianity and
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: purity culture harmed millennial girls. Since it draws heavily upon
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: my own experiences. My book will implicate people from my past,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: such as my ex husband, my old church, and, to
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: my great discomfort, even my family. I don't want to
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: use this opportunity to bash or hurt anyone, but I
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: do want to be honest about what happens so I
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: can help other women. How do I stay vulnerable about
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: my experiences without undermining my credibility and looking like I
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: have an axe to grind? I admire your candidness and
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: fairness when talking about your own painful moments of the past,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: and I would love your insight. Sarah.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Hi, Sarah, Hi, Hi, Hi. This is Kristin Hannah, our
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: special guest today.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: So nice, Thank you, Hi, Sarah.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: So are you you're writing? Is it a novel? Are
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: you making it fiction?
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: No, it's it's kind of a memoir. Plus it's going
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: to be kind of a deep dive into evangelical purity culture.
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: And I got married at twenty two because of that
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: whole ecosystem. So it would, you know, talk about generally
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: how that whole y two k era harmed women and
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: girls like me, So it would use my story, but
• 35:14
  Speaker 5: kind of do more of a cultural deep dive.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Well in the process. As Kristin can attest as well,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: you are going everyone is writing about themselves to some degree,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: and whether it's fiction or nonfiction, like we all are.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: And if you're going to write a nonfiction memoir, you're
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: going to have to change the names and the people. Anyway,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: it's a legal issue, so you're gonna they're going to
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: step in your editor and help you with that, because
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: you don't have the liberty to, like, you know, tell
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: other people's stories. Unfortunately. I know that because I've gotten
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: in trouble many, many times. So you do have to
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: kind of disguise everybody. I mean, you could still tell
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: your story, you're just kind of protecting the people that
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: aren't agreeing to be written about unless you can get
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: their permission. So I wouldn't really worry about that, you know.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, Kristin, you've probably to do that. I mean,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: you're writing more fiction, obviously, But what has been your
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: experience with change when you're basing a character on a
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: real person or on an experience in your life.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: Do you know what. I've actually been really careful not
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: to include real people in my fiction to a great
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: extent for this very reason. And since I don't do memoirs,
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: I can't really speak to that. But it's it's interesting
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: because I mean, maybe you know this Chelsea, if she
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: calls it a novel and everyone is you know, fictional
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: and it doesn't look too much like her actual husband,
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: where is the line there?
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that that would be a better
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: avenue for you not to have to worry about it,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: because once you fictionalize it, then you can color it
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: with whatever you want, you know. I mean, you can
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: do that in a memoir, but it's that's not really
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: what a memoir is. But have you thought about making
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: it fiction? No, But that's really interesting.
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: That's a really interesting idea.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: Because then you can kind of just let it loose,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean?
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you could address issues that perhaps you didn't
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: personally face, but you feel, you know, need to be
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: explored and need to be talked about. And then you
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: could use your personal story as sort of marketing and
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: you know, and how to sell the book because you
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: would bring so much to a novel as you know,
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: as someone to talk to.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: Oh that's really interesting. Okay, Yeah, Well the first book
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: I wrote was a novel, so I have experience doing that,
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: so that that's I had not considered that.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: That's a great idea, Yeah, because it's like historical fiction
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: what you're talking about. Yeah, Okay, well, great problem solved,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: And I mean I am someone who went through some
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: of the same stuff where like you know, youth group
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: and purity culture and all this stuff that like, really,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: you know, I've found stuff rattling around in my brain
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: decades later that I'm like, I didn't know that was
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: still in there. A couple of books that I recommend
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: to for anybody who did go through that, Pure by
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Linda ka Klin was something that helped me sort of
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: unearth a lot of those things rattling around in there
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: that weren't very healthy. And then also Kate Kennedy just
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: wrote a book called One in a Millennial that's on
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: the New York Times bestseller list at the moment, and
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: it's a lot about uh, millennial culture, but also some
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: of the religious stuff that maybe mess us up a
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: So well, thank you both, Thank you.
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: Nice to meet you both. I've been such a huge
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: fan of both of you, so I appreciate it.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can keep us posted, Okay, Okay, we'll do by awesome,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: And if anyone wants to check out Sarah's feminist newsletter,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: it is called Reclaiming and you can find it at
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: reclaimingthewsletter dot com. I kind of wonder too, Christ And
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: I wonder if you you know, your career is at
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: the point where one book feeds into the next, as
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: far as like you have a following and this sort
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: of thing. Is there any advice you'd give to beginner
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: authors or writers as far as connecting with a publisher,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: selling your book, getting the word out there, maybe on
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: social media, any of that stuff you work.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: You know, when you're a beginning writer, everything seems like
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: it's about one book and how does this book sell?
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: How does this book get reviewed? What happens? And I mean,
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: I'm living proof that a career is made book by
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: book by book, but also in the aggregate, and a
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: book that failed, you know, ten years ago, can suddenly
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: be on the bestseller list. And so I think the
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: important thing is, you know, to just if this is
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: what you want to do, if you want to be
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: a working writer, then you have to make the sacrifices
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: that are necessary to do that. You know, you have
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: to find the time to sit down, you have to
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: actually write. You need to find a group of people
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: that support you because it's a lonely endeavor. And then
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: you have to not give up. You know, you have
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: to not let failure derail you. You have to not
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: let anything push you aside and keep believing in yourself
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: and your vision and believing that like I said earlier,
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: the writing itself is the most important thing, you know.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: It's sort of if you build it, they will follow,
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: you know, if you do your best time after time
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: after time, and you get lucky, you can have a
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: career or a job at this. But it will never
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: be easy. And I don't know about you, Chelsea, but
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: like every new endeavor, I think, can I do it again?
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: Do I still have it in me? And you just
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: have to battle that, I think, like we were talking
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: about earlier, especially as women.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: But it's so interesting though, because you know it's like
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: do I still have it in me? And I would
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: argue that we get better as we get older, you know,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: in terms of creative Like I loved what you just said.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: It's book by book. It reminds me of that bird
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: By bird By and LaMotte that book because somebody should
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: write a book called book by books it's for authors,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: because that's so true. You think, you know, it's everything's
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: writing on this one book, and it's like, that's just
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: not the case. I've had very successful books and I've
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: had less successful books, and it is an aggregate and
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: it is it's like it's the whole collection, you know,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: So everything is just kind of a step when you're
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: when you're a writer, it's like, this is your first book,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: and you know that there's going to be one after
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: that and another one after that, and it doesn't have
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: to be the most successful book in the world for
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: you to get another book deal. You know, all you
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: need is your creative artistic intelligence and you're gonna figure
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: it out. But I also think when when you have
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: a clear vision about something and you can see it,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: like what Kristin what you were saying about when you're writing.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: I feel that way about things when i'm really like,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: I guess in your flow state. You know, when you're
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: in your flow state and it's just easy and it
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: comes to you, but you're very clear about where you're going.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like it's almost impossible not to succeed
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: when you have such a clear vision.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: I think that's true, and it's long as Like the corollarily,
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: I would add to that is what you said earlier,
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: editing matters. You know, you can easily get to a
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: point where, and especially beginning writers, where they just think
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: everything is perfect as it comes out to them because
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: they feel like they're in that flow state. And the
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: fact is, you you know, you have to be an
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: artist for half of the project, and then at some
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: point you have to be a business person. You you know,
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: you have to look at your work with really cold,
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: hard eyes and try to make it the best. And
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: I think one of the things that's great about writing
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: in terms of for the long term is the more
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: you change and grow, the more your work changes and grows,
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: and the more you bring to the table. And that's
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: I think pretty exciting to sort of watch yourself, you know,
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: improve over time.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that is very satisfying.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: And kind of along those lines, I've read somewhere that
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: you had the idea for the women like decades ago,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: but you didn't feel like you were ready to tackle that.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Is there a way that you know when it's time
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: to tackle an older idea or when you're ready.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: Well, when I first pitched a book about Vietnam, it
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: was nineteen ninety seven, so I was thirty seven, and
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: I had an editor who had been at Berkeley in
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight, and she was a very smart woman.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: And that's one thing I would say, surround yourself with
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: the smartest people you can and then listen to them.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's super important. And she said, you know, honey,
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: you're not old enough and you're not good enough, but
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: come back when you are, because it's a good idea.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: And in nineteen ninety seven, no one wanted to talk
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: or hear about Vietnam, and so I just kind of
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: waited and I kept it was almost like my Bellweather,
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: like okay, am I old enough? Am I good enough?
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: And I started realizing, okay, I'm now old enough. And
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: part of that was motherhood. Part of that was seeing
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: the world change around me. Part of that was understanding
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: things about government and politics and American society that I
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: could not possibly have understood when I was, you know, younger.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: And part of was leaning into risk taking and saying, Okay,
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: I've done this for a very long time, and I
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: am ready to fail if that's what it takes and
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: this is my moment.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: And Chelsea, do you have thoughts on that as well
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: as far as one part of your story when it's
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: time to tell that going back to things that might
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: be old or painful or no.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think you just know when you're like
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: you've got, when you've ready to drum something up, you know,
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: you're like, I have output. I have enough now, I've
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: collected enough new information that I need to get some
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: ideas out there. You know, the book I'm writing now,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: I've had a more I was trying to like jam
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: it in and jam it in and write and like
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, let me write here and write there,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: And it's like that's not a natural flow when you're
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: doing that. Now, when I've been a you know, whistler
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: for a month or two, that's when I get my
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: writing done. When I could do it every morning, the
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: first thing I do is get my computer and write
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: for three hours. And half of my writing is editing.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Like I'm always editing. I'm always looking through things again
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: because I just I find that to be the sharpest way,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: especially for comedy, you need to have a good editor,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: and you need to be a good self editor. That's
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: another thing. You know, people can get really married to
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: their own ideas and thoughts. And when Kristen says, listen
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: to people who are smarter than you, you know, I do
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: defer to my editors every single time when they're like
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: this isn't really working or I'm not somebody who has
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: to be like, no, I need this, I need this.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: I'm very open to feedback, and I think that is
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: a very critical you know, because some people are too
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: open to feedback and they don't you know, they kind
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: of lose themselves to the feedback versus being so obstinate
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: you can't hear any constructive criticism. There's a nice place
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: in the middle to find where you are open to feedback,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: but you still have an idea of where you're going
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: and you're married to that idea and people can edit
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: around that, but you have to stay true to what
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: your vision is.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: So, Chelsea, how do you I mean, You've got a
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: lot of creative pursuits going at any one time, right,
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: lots of different avenues for your creativity. How do you
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: balance when is the time for what? And when to
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: lean in and when to take a moment and wait,
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: I'm a little bit of a you know, like a
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: live wire. I just kind of I get in a
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: good state, like a flow state with my stand up
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: and then I'm like, you know what, I'm loving this
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: so much. I'm loving the show. I'm going to extend
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: it and do fifty more dates before I shoot my special.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: When I'm writing, if I'm only writing, then I really
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: get into writing. When you have like too many plates
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: in the air, I find that it diminishes some of
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: your work. So I need, like certain I need to
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: really focus when I'm writing. I really need to focus
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: on that. I wouldn't be able to start a book,
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: and so my stand up set is exactly where I wanted.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: So once that's an a plus, then I can move
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: on to another.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Endeavor like seasons kind of yeah.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: And I also am very good about taking breaks and
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: really filling myself up with travel and culture and exercise
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: and all the stuff that feeds your soul. You know,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: different people, and exposing yourself to things that aren't really
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: that interesting to you a lot of the time, because
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: you're going to find out that you know, there's so
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: much to gain from, like going into a situation you're
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: not that interested in, and you know, it's kind of
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: how I feel about the grade alone. It was such
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: a good example of nothing about that story is anything
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: I care about, Like, I have no interest in that world,
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: yet it's you know, because of the power of your
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: writing and the story, it made me so interested. And
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: I think of that as an example of being curious
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: enough to go to a place that you're not that
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: interested in.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Well, let's take a quick break and I have one
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: more short question when we come back.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Perfect and we're back.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: We are back, So Joseph writes, Dear Chelsea, I'm an
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: aspiring author working on my first book in a series.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: I'm writing a sci fi outer space saga that I've
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: been creating for the past five years. It's taken a
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: long time to write a good chunk of it, being
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: as I work full time. I'm roughly fifty pages from finishing,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: but lately I've hit a giant wall blocking me from finishing.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: I know how I want the book to end, but
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: I get in my head and in my emotions about
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: imposter syndrome. How do you push past writer's block? And
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: also what kind of environment best suits you for writing
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: soft music? Coffee shop, dead silence. What's best for getting
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: in the groove?
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Joseph, I like dead silence. I mean that's ideal, but yeah,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: what about you dead.
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: Silence and no rituals? Like it's time, it's time to
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: sit down, so I sit down. Doesn't mean I'm necessarily
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: doing anything when I sit down, But like I said,
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: my muse shows up when I sit down. And in
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: terms of imposter syndrome and doing all of that, that's
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: all sort of you know, that's all in your head
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: and it's always there and we all have to deal
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: with it all the time. And the bottom line is
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: the only way through is to write your way through.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: You have to get the words on the page that
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: you can then you know, turn into something else. You
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: just have to.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I agree, like I don't really have rituals
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: at all. I mean I meditate every day, but that's
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: a separate that's not for writing per se. But I
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: find that that sometimes can even take up more time.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Like you know, like if you sit down and you're
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: in front of your computer or a legal power however,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: you write and you just say, like I'm gonna be
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: here for two hours, you're gonna start writing stuff, and
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: it might not always work or always be stuff that
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: you're going to use. That's part of the process too.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: As far as imposter syndrome goes, it's like, that's not
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: that original either. Everyone feels that way, so it's almost
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: not even worth discussing because it's just part of the package.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Everyone's just gonna feel like, you know, you kind of
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: vacillate between that and then bounts of confidence and capability
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: and we all feel that way, and that's just your
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: voice in your head. And so the quicker you can
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: get those thoughts through, the quicker you're going to be
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: able to focus on your story and fill in the
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: blanks that you feel are missing.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: I think even imposter syndrome like gets bigger the closer
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: you get to finishing something too.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the more you focus on it, the bigger
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: it becomes.
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: I would say too that Joseph, if you are fifty
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: pages from the end, and this is this is just personal,
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: so this may not be true for you. But if
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: I get to a place where I'm fifty pages from
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: the end of a novel that I've been working on
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: for a long period of time and I cannot write
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: those last fifty pages, the answer to the question, is
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: in the pages that came before, there is somewhere that
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: you have taken a wrong turn, that you have put
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: your character in a situation that either lessens the conflict
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: or doesn't lead inevitably to your confusion. So you know,
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: you can push through to the end, or you can
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: go back to the beginning and edit to take you
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: back up to that moment. But most likely that's where
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: your problem lies.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: That's really good advice, And this is really a question
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: for each of you. Do you start with an outline
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: or a skeleton for what you're writing or are you
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: just like, let's go with the vision. I have an idea,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: let's go What.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: About you, Kristin.
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: I don't begin a book until I have a very
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: clear vision and I've done a lot of research and
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: I know the story intimately, and then I sit down
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: and write a completely different novel and just pray to
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: God that I can get to a better ending than
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: I had originally intended.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not an outline. First, my editors asked me
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: for an outline about three times, and I just had
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: to tell her that's not happening. I'm not an outlined person.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: I just do it.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: I need to just do it in my own way. Yeah.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing about writing, and that's what's so
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: empowering it. There is not one size fits all. I mean,
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: you can get you can get information like this, and
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: I think what happens is when you hear from other writers,
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: you know what speaks to you, and you hear the
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: information when you need to hear it, and otherwise it
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: just collects in there. So the more you can listen to,
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: you know, conversations like this, I think the more you
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: can find the answer that you're looking for.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Okay. Well, christ and Hannah, oh my god,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: what a delight. I love you and it was so
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: nice to meet you. I hope I see you again
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: in person sometimes, I.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: Hope so, I would love to. This was really great.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and congrats on all of your
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: earned success.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: It's pretty great. It's been a good week.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, congrats, that's congrats.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: All right, and good luck with the book you're working on.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you all right, take care of you guys,
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: Take care.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Ay, but thanks Kristen.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, So, Chelsea Handler is my name, and comedy is
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: my game. Comedy and therapy. There are my games. I'm sorry,
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: I misspoke. I have added more shows. I added a
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: second show in Vancouver, so I have two shows in
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  Speaker 2: Vancouver March twenty ninth March thirtieth. Then I've added another
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: show in Sydney, Australia on July thirteenth, so i have
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: two shows in Sydney July twelfth and thirteenth. For other
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: shows in Australia and New Zealand, go to Chelseahandler dot com.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: And I've added two shows in Oklahoma, Norman, Oklahoma on
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• 53:47
  Speaker 2: in Los Angeles with Matteo Lane and Vanessa Gonzalez and
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Fortune Fiemester and Sam Jay. Those are my updates and
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  Speaker 2: more shows are coming, so pay attention.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
• 54:00
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