Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Paul Carrack

Transcript

Paul Carrack · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Bob Left That podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: My yesterday is fall care full. Good to happen here, Huck?
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: How good? So you have a new album one on one.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: What inspires you to continue to write and record new
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: music in this crazy musical era? I'm not sure. I
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: do ask myself that same question every now and again.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of things. Um A, I've
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: on a bit of a mission to have my own
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: body of work. Um you know, I've been in a
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: several bends, as you probably know, and I've had the
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: great pleasure and honor to play with some fantastic people
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: over the years, even song you know, lead vocal on
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: some you know, quite well known song and everything. But
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I realized I came to the conclusion that I didn't
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: have um any rights to a lot of these things.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: And also I just wanted to have my own, my
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: own body of work, my own catalog. Yeah, that's one reason.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about body work. Especially about eighteen months ago,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: you put out five live albums simultaneously. Tell me the
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: back story there. Well, the backstory is that for I
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: guess for the last twenty years of a of a
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: very long career. I started to release my solo stuff
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: on my own label. It's a very small time thing. Um.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: But we also started to record um our live shows.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I mean I've done. I started touring constantly to established
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: myself because even back then, nobody knew to who the
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: hell Paul Carrot was. They may have known the songs
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: or the voice or what have you been, I didn't
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: know the name. So we started to record all the shows.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: And my good friend, a guy called Peter Van Hook
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: is kind of I guess you would call him a manager. Um,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: he's my mate basically of thirty odd years. Okay, now,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: he ultimately was a musician. Then he produced records with
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Rod Origin. How do you know Peter van Hook? Well,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I first met Peter when at the beginning of the
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Mike and the Mechanics project. Peter was the drummer, original
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: drummer in Mike and the Mechanics. He was a very
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: kind of busy session guys back in those days when
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: sessions were the thing, and he played I think for
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: about ten years with Van Morrison and I met him
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: at the photo session for the Mike and the Mechanics
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: album and I took an instant disliked okay, because he
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: was talking away in this he was talking to the
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: keyboard player Adrian Lee in this language. I didn't understand.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: It was all about Middy and all that sort of stuff,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: and I had not yet been introduced to Middy. I
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: was still very low tech. But anyway, that's when I
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: met Pete and but I got to know him and
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: really love him on as I got to know him,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: and he's my biggest fan, is my biggest supporter. He
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: had the unenviable task of sifting through all these recordings
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: and and and put together this sort of compilation of
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: life stuff. I be honest with you, I've not heard
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of it because I understand that you understand good.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, if I write something, I don't reread it.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: It's too crazy, exactly exactly, okay, But I five albums simultaneously,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: and what has been the reception there too, We had
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: a pretty good response to it. Actually, Um, why five albums?
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know, You'll have to ask him. I mean,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: we've been, as I said, on a mission to establish
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: myself as a singer songwriter independently, and it's involved a
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: lot of gigs. So we've we've recorded a lot of shows.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: There's been a lot of songs. I mean, I don't know.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Somebody told me it's something like seventeen or eighteen albums
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: we've released on my own label, so we have a
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: lot of songs. Well, I will say, on those five
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: live albums and I'm talking to I'm talking to you,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: do sound like kype like I'm blowing smoke up your
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: rear around. They're phenomenal. I mean really the only problem
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: with those albums is people haven't heard of because I'm
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: surprised at the quality of the live performance, almost like
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: a studio performance. Well I'm surprised. Um, that's that's good
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: to know. Maybe I should give them a listen. But
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: as I say, we've made quite a few albums in
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: the in the studio. But as you say, they're not
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: really that well known in the States, which is to
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: my great regrets. Okay, let's go back to go twenty
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: years ago, going independent. Tell me that story. Well, Um,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: you know, I I just meandered along there for many years.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: As I said, got to play with a lot of
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: great people. I'd made one or two albums for several
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: record companies, and the case would usually be that would
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: make an album. They'd released a couple of singles and
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: then I'd move on or they dropped me. It's probably
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the way it really was. And I got to the
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: point where I thought that I made it. I started
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: to make an album here at home. It's called Satisfy
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: My Soul. And I liked the way it sounded. I
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: just and I didn't like the thought of having to
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: go around to record companies trying to hawk it because
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: I knew what they would say, Well, it's fine, but
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe you need to do this, or maybe
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: you need to that or the other. And I liked
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: it the way it was. And this guy, Peter van Hook,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: he said he had some experience, he had had a
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: little jazz label, and he said, well, why don't you
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: just do it yourself, just release it yourself. And at
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: the time it was a bit scary because people weren't
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: really doing that and I had no idea how you
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: released a record. Um, but we did it. We we
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: just started. It was, as I say, very small time.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: We just got it an independent radio plugger to take
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: the record around and we got a a great airplay
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: on the mainstream radio here in the UK, and things
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: sort of you know grew from that. Okay, let's go
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: back to something you said earlier, the body of work.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I understand, But what was your motivation at this point
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: in your life to want to create a body of work? Well,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: there were several things. I mean, as I said, I
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: realized that I had contributed to a lot of other
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: projects and other people's careers, and I was happy to
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: do that. I was just happy to be involved in
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: music and I loved it, every minute of it. Um.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: But when I started this little label of mine, and
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I wanted to release a compilation of stuff that I've
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: done over the years, and I was happy to license
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: it from and pay the royalties to the to the majors.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: But then a couple of things happened. And when that
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I wanted that there were a couple of tracks, significant
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: tracks that I've been involved with, and I wasn't allowed
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: to license them and put them on my And that's
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: that's kind of when the penny really dropped and I thought,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: you know, I need to have my own stuff that
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I control and then and that's mine. Okay, so twenty
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: years ago, you start your own label. Traditionally, musicians are
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: good musicians. They're not good business people. There's a lot
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: of business involved in running your own label. Who does
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: that business? Well? As I said, it's it started on
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: a very small time level. Um, I didn't really have
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: a clue how it worked, how they're not some bolts
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: of it worked, but it was quite simple. We uh
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: just got a distribution kind of deal, you know, somebody
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: who was prepared to put this stuff out. And we
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: employ Lloyd, a couple of independent radio pluggers that we
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: had worked with in the in the other bands and
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: that we knew well. And we started from there. And
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: I'm was quite prepared to get my hands dirty. I'm
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: from a very kind of working class northern upbringing. My
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: folks actually were kind of independent inasmuch as my father
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: was what you call a painter and decorator, you know,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: you would paint people's houses. And my mom ran a
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: small store where we sold paint and wallpaper. And we
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: lived in the back of the store in a in
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: a one room at the back with two bedrooms in
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: an attic at the outside, toilet and no bathroom and
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. And I saw my folks,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: you know, after kind of what they'd gone through, who
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: they've gone through, the Depression and then World War two,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: and and they work their backsides off just to make things.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: So I definitely saw how hard they worked, and and
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: it's kind of in my genes too. I was prepared to,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: as I say, get my hands dirty and and and
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: and try and build something. Okay, So your first experience
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: with the first independent label, do you feel, in terms
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: of the effect of the independent as you put its
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: song pluggers, etcetera, that you got as good as shot
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: as you got when you were a label. Um, probably
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: got as good as shot as I did as a
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: solo artist, but I'm not as as with the bands.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, for example, Mike and the Mechanics. Of course,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Mike is the guitar player in Genesis, and so they
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: had a lot of help from record companies. You know,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: we had TV spots and the record were given a
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: real good chance, and we had great airplace. So no,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I wasn't getting that. I didn't have that kind of clout,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: but I had a little bit of momentum from involvement
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: with this such as them, and and it grew, it
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: really grew. I mean it wasn't my intention to Um,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I've never chased I never wanted to be famous or
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: anything like that. But I just wanted to uh survive
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: and make music and have a good band and do
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: my shows and make my albums, as simple as that. Okay,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: so you're making your albums, you're paying for the whole thing.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: So what kind of budget for one of these albums
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: is there? Well, um, for example, with the first one,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: UH Satisfy my Soul, I made it here at home,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: and I played more or less everything on the record,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: and I engineered it myself. So it didn't cost a
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: whole lot to make the record, but as it doesn't
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: these days, if you kind of know what you're doing,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: but you know, the problem is, or the difficulty is
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: to get it hurt. And so as an independent in
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: the UK, it wasn't too difficult because I had a
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: little bit of history and the UK is a small place,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: so you know, we we had good support from the
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: mainstream radio, the BBC radio too, that's the big kind
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: of mainstream radio, and they liked what I did. It
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: worked for them, and subsequent albums also it really worked
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: very well for them. So but to try to expand
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: and internationally and and it's much more difficult. But I
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: had a thing going, you know, and now I was
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: getting support. I had a band that we're really into it.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: We we love going to work. We toured up and
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: down the country, and I was I am happy. Okay,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: a couple of things. You essentially put out an album
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: every other year. Most artists of the of your vintage
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: they don't put out new music at all. So what
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: keeps you writing and recording? Well, as I said, I'm
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: not exactly sure, but I think it's the fact that
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: although I've had, you know, little bits of success here
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: and there and a look inside the window, Um, I
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: never felt that I had that body of work that
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I could point to, or that album that I could
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: say that is the quintessential album. So I think it's
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: it's purely just to keep self satisfaction. I still keep
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: thinking I could do better, you know. Okay, so this
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: lightest album, tell me about the making of that. First,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: When do you decide you have a target when you
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: want to make a record, or you said or you
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: all probably write it off songs and saying it's time
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: to make a record. No, I just in this particular case,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I had no plan whatsoever to record last year. I mean,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I had a whole diary of life stuff. UM. I
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: had a UK too with my band. I was going
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: to go to Australia, Japan, Europe, and I also have
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: been involved quite a bit in the last nine years
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: or so playing keyboards and Eric Clapton's band and touring
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: around with him. So we had a whole year, um,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: but thirty odd shows into the year. In the middle
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: of March, of course, the pandemic hit and venues were
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: closed down, and initially everybody thought, well, well, we'll be
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: back up there in a month or two, but that
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: pretty soon became obvious that that wasn't going to be
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: the case. And so having this little facility here I
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: have at home, which is fantastic, and I just started
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: coming in and playing with my toys and recording stuff
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: and it evolved into an album. Okay, So on these
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: albums to this day, you're the producer, you're the engineer.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: To what degree are there outside musicians and what degree
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: you do everything yourself? On this particular album, it was
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: almost totally myself engineering, um, playing all the instruments, UM.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: But towards the and and end of the thing. For
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: an example, I had written and recorded some horn parts,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: but using samples in et cetera and didn't sound too
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: bad actually, But um, when it became possible to get
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: people in, I got in a horn section that i'd
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: worked before, include in the fantastic pee Wee Ellis, which
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: we can talk about at some point if you like.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: And and I had one track that needed a real
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: good guitar solo solo on it, and I'm not a
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: great soloist. I got my friend Robbie macintosh to remotely
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: play a great solo on the guitar. But other than that,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: it's pretty much me. Robbie McIntyre, average white beard right.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Uh No, Um, you're thinking of the drummer. His name
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: escapes me. But Robbie McIntosh. No, he was in the Pretenders,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: he was with Paul McCartney and play people like Nora
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Jones and Dire Straits. And he's a fabulous musician. Okay,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: So tell me about pee Wee Ellis. Well, pee Wee
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I got to know through Peter Van Hook and because
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: they worked together with Van Morrison for many years. Pee
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Wee of course as a legend. He worked with James
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Brown and did some of those incredible horn arrangements, and
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Peter introduced me to Pee Wee on my previous album,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: which is called These Days. It's about three years ago,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: and Pee Wee wrote some great authentic horn arrangements for that,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: and he did one horn arrangement on this new record,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: on a track called Lighten Up Your Mood. But it's
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: a beautiful guy. Unfortunately he passed away in September at
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: the age of eighty. Um. But he was a real
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: he was a proper legend, and he was a authentic,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: real deal and he lived it large. Just talking about
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: this album obviously class for low. You finished the record,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: you eque it yourself and you go to an outside
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: mastering house. Well, for the first time ever. I mean,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I'd never even mixed my own albums before because I'm
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not a technical guy either as a musician or
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: an engineer. I kind of know how to work pro
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: tools in my own cack handed way, but I never
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: trusted myself two mix. To me, it was a you know,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: a oh that's real. That's a technical person. He's got
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: to be somebody who knows what they're doing. And in
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: the past I've gotten things to the mixed stage and
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: then handed it over to a proper, proper mixing engineer,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: and they then bring the whole thing back to scratch
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: and build it back up again, and it never hangs
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: together in the way that I've heard it. So this
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: time again, this guy Peter van Hook said, I mean, no,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: you have to mix this record, and I was like,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: oh no, I can't me I don't know what I'm doing,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: And but I did. I we went with my mixes
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: that I've worked with as we went along, and then
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: there's this other age called the mastering situation, which is
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: like I never understood. It's like, you get your mixes,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: they sound great, and then they go to this other
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: stage mastering, and then they do another process, which is
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: they add EQ and compression and again it changes the thing.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: So to be honest, we did hand it over to
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: a couple of mastering guys who had a shot at it,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: and when it came back I didn't like it because
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: it didn't sound how I wanted it to sound. I
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: like the way it sounds. It's engaging, it doesn't hit
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: you in the face. But of course a lot of
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: these mastering guys now are trying to get it on
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: the radio and make it a kind of more aggressive
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: and hi fi in order to get the radio attention.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: But I didn't like it. I liked it the way
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: it was, and that's what we went with. Okay, there's
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: one thing to balance all the instruments, another thing to delay, echo, reverb, etcetera.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: You just figured that out all by yourself. In the
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: mixing stage. Well, it's not like you record it and
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: then you mix it it. It's you're mixing it as
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: you go along, and that's what happens. You get used
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: to that. I'm not an expert, as I say, but
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: I have he is, and I know the kind of
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: reverbs and echoes and things I like to hear. I mean,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: they might not be the ultimate, but when they are working,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: you have to go with them, because then that's when
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: you start changing that stuff. The whole balance changes. And
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: so yeah, we went with my my ideas. What kind
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: of equipment do you have in your studio? Well, I
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: have a pro tools rig, right, and what kind of board.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: It's just a control surface, really, it's a it's a
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: control twenty four. It's just a it's not a big
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: fancy knive or anything like that. I have some nice
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: pre amps, uh, some Nive pre amps and and the
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: like and the stuff is pretty much recorded organically, you know,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: it's just I just plug it in and when it
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: sounds okay, that's when that's what I go with. You
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: record in the same room that the equipment is in. Yeah,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: by and large, Yes. And what speakers do you listen to? Now?
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: What are these things called? They sound great PCMs? I
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: think they're called they're real nice speakers. But they're not flattering,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: but they're not tiring. It just sound good. Okay. How
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: do you end up working with clapped? Well? I think
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: years ago, it must over ten years. I think I
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: played a few sort of charity type gigs where Gary,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: you know from prop Gary it's very good at putting
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: these things together. He would put that together a house
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: band kind of thing too, and he would get in
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: some real stars like Eric Clapton, Roger Waters, people like that,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: and for various charity events. And then I played on
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: a few of Eric's albums, things like Pilgrim Um Reptile
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and a few other albums, just a few tracks. And
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: then one day, as I say, eight nine years ago,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: he called me up and asked if I could come
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: on the road with him. And I was delighted to
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: say that. Yeah, dovetail beautifully into the what I had
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: going with my own band, and I guess I did
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: what was pretty much probably the last world tour inasmuch
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: as we did. We played in the States, we went
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: to Far East, we played it in Europe, Japan, and
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: it was just a marvelous experience. Well, he's on the
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: road now, needless to say, you're not in the band. No,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: that's not true. We we I was in the Bend
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: the whole of September when we just did some shows.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Oh oh I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: those goods. So they those dates were done. We we
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: did eight nine shows I think in the Southern States. Yeah,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I didn't know you were in the band on those. Yeah. Okay.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: One has to ask what do you think of his
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: viewpoints of vaccines for COVID. Well, I don't think I'm
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: gonna be drawn into that too much because I don't
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: even know exactly where he stands on what he said
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: about it. But I know all I do know, and
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I think I'm at liberty to say that, is that
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: he had the vaccine twice and he had a very
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: bad reaction, and he spoken about that personally. I've also
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: had the vaccine, and so I don't precisely no or
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: agree or uh about where he stands on where where
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: he stands at the moment, but I must admit I
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: have my skeptical thoughts about what it's all about. And
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: it's a little skeptical about mandating people who don't wish
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: to for whatever reason, have the vaccine. As I say, personally,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: myself and my family we have had the vaccine, and
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: I don't think we've had a bad response to it.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: But I think I think people are entitled to their
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: own opinion. Okay, so you go on on the road
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: with Eric. How much rehearsal is there if you're gonna
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: do nine dates? Well there was a couple of weeks.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: But bear in mind most of the musicians, in fact,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: all of the musicians involved played with Eric b Floor before,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and so when you rehearse with Eric, it's not so
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: much about you're not learning parts. You know, you're not
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: getting the parts tight and accurate and all that. It's
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: more about it it's more like getting to know everybody again.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: And because you never play this stuff the same twice,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: it's all on instinct and vibe, you know, so that
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: the I can't say that the rehearsals are that intense.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: You know, we play some music, we chat, we chat,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: we have a cup of tea, we play a bit more,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: we have lunch, we play a bit more, and then
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: that's it. So and it comes together. Okay, you're on
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: the road to what degree are the settlers and the
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: parts setting stone into what degree does that change every
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: night and improvisation changing? Oh well, it's totally improvisation. I
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: mean we're not totally. I mean, there's a framework, there's
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: a set. It changes only a little predominantly. On this
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: last thing. The changes were in the acoustic section in
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: the middle, and he did some new things there, and
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: he also only used he used microphones on the acoustic thing,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: like on the guitars and stuff like that. And he
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: didn't use pickups because I understand why, because the pickups,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: even great as they're getting, they don't really sound like
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: an acoustic guitar sounds when it's played in the room.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: And he was very much trying to get you know,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: that real sound of the acoustic guitars. So we had
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: to play very very quietly in the acoustic section, and
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: that changed a little bit. But the set pretty much
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: stayed the same. Okay, So you have these endeavors, you're
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: making records, you're going on the road, going on the
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: road by yourself with Eric Clapton. Let's just say you
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: never worked another day in your life. Have you made
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: enough money in the music business to get to the
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: end where you gotta work for a living? M depends
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: what you mean. I think I probably I would probably
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: be okay. I'm trying to help my kids. I have
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: four grown up kids. They're all basically have regular salaried
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: kind of jobs, which I'm quite happy about, or not jobs,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: but careers. And I have one son who's a chip
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: off the old block who plays in my band. Um,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: and the cost of living and the cost of you know,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: real estate has just gone crazy, and they have small
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: apartments and stuff. I'm trying to help them as much
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: as I possibly can while I'm still here. We have
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: a nice life. We're okay, We're I think we're what
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: they called the comfortable poor. We're do we're do okay okay.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: And then so forgetting COVID. Before COVID, how many dates
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: a year were you on on the road? Uh, who's counting?
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, we would definitely with my own band. We
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: would play January February, March into April. We would play
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: three to four nights a week in theaters up and
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: down the UK, and then we would generally at that
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: point do some shows maybe in the Netherlands that's Holland, Germany,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: and then I would uh if I you know, probably
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: play with Eric as I said, going to Japan or
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: US shows. I don't know. I'm not not counting, but
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I'm busy. I've been very, very busy. It's crazy. Last
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: ten twenty years, when you know you should be winded down,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: have been the busiest of my career. Now an email,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: you say you're going to go work in Spain momentarily.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: So I'm going on vacation. Oh yeah, I thought you
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: were playing gigs. No, we're doing I'm going away for
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: a couple of weeks vacation with my wife to Spain.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: We have a small apartment over there. Oh you know,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: I don't need the address, but we're in Spain, his
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: son in the south on the costadel Soul. Okay, you
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: know that's big. You know Brits are really into that.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to the beginning. You're from Sheffield, what
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: was What was it like growing up in Sheffield. I
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: think it was pretty good. It was pretty good. It
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: was very by today standard. It was extremely austere, but
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: so is everywhere up in the north of England. You know,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: I've come from a pretty poor, basic working class family.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: My dad's family they were they went too bad. But
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: my my mom's family was very poor. Um my grand
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: and I never met either of my grandfather's They were
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: both deceased by the time I came along. But my
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: maternal grandfather was died around thirty six, left six kids.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: He was from Ireland and he left six kids, so
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: they were very, very poor. Even when we grow grew
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: up as kids, we were We didn't think we were,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: but we were poor. We didn't have a We had
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: a tin bath in the front of the fire once
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: a week. We had an outside toilet, but most people
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: did around where we lived, and but we had we
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: could go out and play. We could playing the open
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: air all day long. We're no worries, so I think
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: actually it was great. It was great way to live. Okay, well,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: we know about Sheffield in America and we don't know much.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: We know there was still there and Joe Cocker was
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: from there. Were you aware of Joke Parker? Oh yeah,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: he was about two streets away from me, really, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: But he was a bit older. He was a bit older,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and he was he was a man. I was a
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: boy and he I was a little bit Oh this guy,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: he's a bit little bit scary, this guy, you know.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: But he was a legend in England, of course, in
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Sheffield and he was playing. He could play any night
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: of the week in a pub or a club. And
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: I eventually got to see. I mean I was about
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: fifteen something like that and I snuck into a pub
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: and I saw Joe playing and it was amazing, absolutely amazing.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: And Chris Stainton, who's plays in the in the Clapton band,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: was playing with him back in those days as well.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: So I've been having hitting Chris for all the old
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Cocker stories. Fantastic. Any other musicians who came from Sheffield
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: but back then, no, not really. There was a guy
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: called Dave Berry. He had a little bit of success,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: but Joe really, honestly was the first one to to
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: come through and we were all so delighted, and little
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: help from my friends. It was so exciting because it's
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: such a great record, and then when he finally sort
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: of broke through, it was just great. Well, everybody loved it.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: So you're growing up. How many kids in the family,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: and it was just me and my brother, older brother. Okay,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: you go to school, you good student, bad student? I
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: was just I was a good boy. I did what
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I was told when I wasn't very academic at all. Um.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: You know, unfortunately, my father had a fatal accident. I
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: don't know if I if you knew that, but he
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: had a fatal accident when I was eleven, my brother
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: was fifteen, and that that was pretty uh profound experience.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: But my brother grew up overnight. He he took charge
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: of the shop where we lift the store, and while
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: my mom tried to recover from this incredible blow. And
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I just kind of as long as I was going
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: to school and not being any trouble, it was fine.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: But I had no interest in school at all. I
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: didn't like it at all. I I like sports and
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I like music. That was it. And were you an outsider?
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: We were a member of a a group, a lot of friends.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: No friends, Oh no, I had a lot. I know,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I was I think I was a pretty popular kid.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I was, you know, as I said, it wasn't academic.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: I was. Probably I was a bit of a clown,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: you know, if we had a soft teacher, I would
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: be a clown. And no, I think I was pretty popular.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I think so. I had plenty of friends here. Okay,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: So you talk about the outdoor toilet, you talk about
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: the tin tub. At what point does that change? M Well,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: it got worse actually because I left home the comforts. Okay,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: when you left, when you left comforts, when you left
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: home there you were still using an outdoor toilet. No,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: we had at that point, not long after my father died.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe he had an insurance policy. I don't know what,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: but we we actually moved from living behind the shop
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: to a little semi detached a couple of streets away.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Still kept the shop, but we had a little semi
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: detached house which had a bathroom, which was luxury. Okay,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: So what was your introduction in music? Your parents playing
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of music. My father's side were musical, definitely.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: My grandmother and my aunt both played the piano um,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: and my father dabbled in the drums. I think so.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: But even prior to his untimely death. But even most
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: so after we didn't have much contact with his side
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: of the family, but we had a lot of contact
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: with my mother's side of the family, who were very
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: you know, lovely people. You know, it's tough and common,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: you know, poor but great. They were such great support
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: for us in in emotionally after my father's passing. It
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: was unbelievable. Yeah. So, you know, from the East Coast,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: I mean from the United States viewpoint, we had the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Beach Boys, we had the Four Seasons, we had a
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: lot of crap, and then all of a sudden the
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Beatles hip. But the Beatles hitting sixty four in America
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: being sixty four where they actually hitting sixty two in
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: the UK. So what point did you become into popular music? Well,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: I was into it. I was into it already. I
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: liked all those bands, you know, I like the Ventures
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: and people like that. And as I say, my brother,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: my older brother, he but then and there was an
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: instrumental band called the Shadows in the UK. They were
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: the backing band for a guy called Cliff Richard. But
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: I love the But when the Beatles came, that was it.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: You know. In all the Liverpool bands and all that,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. I saw the Beatles a couple of
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: times Sheffield City Hall. Everybody came through there, you know,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: everybody came through town. And you saw him at the
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: city Hall. So the Stones, Roy Orbison, Dylan, chuck Berry,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: you name it. So how what was it? Like? How
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: good were they? I don't know. I couldn't hear him,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: but it was just electric, you know. And and to
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: see them, and I saw, you know, see ringo Lane.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I was playing drums by this time in a little
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: band at school and when I saw a ringoing, you know,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: the high hacks going like this like, oh my god,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: you know I've been tickling these drums. I need to
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: give him some stick, you know. So you know, I
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: only know the American experience where we all had transistor radios,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: but we also had uh commercial radio. So did you
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: have transistor radios? And was it just the BBC or
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: radio Caroline pop radio? When? When? What was the listening experience?
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Did you buy records? Did you have money to do that?
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: There us hardly anything on the radio back in those days.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: There's so little I'm not like today where you can't
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: get away from it. But yeah, we had the little
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: transistor radio my brother under the bedclothes and we would
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: try and tune into Radio Caroline and it would come
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: and go Radio Luxembourg. And but um, we didn't even
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: have a proper record player. We had we had a
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: wind up record I'm not kidding, I am. I find
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: it hard to believe myself, but we did. But the
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: girl at the end of our yard where we lived, um,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: she had one. And then when she got a new model,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: she gave us her old electric record player and a
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: lot of records like um Everly Brothers and Ricky Nelson
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: and Dwayne Eddie and things like this. And it was like, wow,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: this was great. Why did she give you her records?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess they got maybe they got
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: tired of him, you know that back then, and it
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: was onto the next thing and the next thing, you know.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we weren't asking. We weren't asking questions. How
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: did you playing drobs? Well, as I said, we had
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: an attic at this shop where we lived, and there
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: were a couple of bits up there. There was a
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: snare drum. There was a thing it was like almost
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: like a toy based drum, And I said about playing
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: this kit I would play along to two records. And
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: one year my father he one Christmas he got this thing.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: It was like the old you know when the like
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: from the twenties, this kit with like the wooden blocks,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: the skulls about five skulls and and I used to
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: mess around on that, and I was in. I was
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: into it. But the year my when my my father
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: passed away, and the Christmas after that, my mother bought
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: with what the thing called hy purchase where you pay
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: you know, installments very much. They actually bought me a
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: proper kit of drums. I mean it was way too
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: good for what was but I mean it was just
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: spectacular kit of drums and tell tricks and tell star
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: remember it well. And so that's when I really started
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: getting into it. And then tell me about forming bands.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: We had a little band at school played the school
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: concert when I was twelve thirteen. It was fantastic. We
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: did four Beatles songs and the girls through jelly Babies
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: and asked and asked for my autograph, you know, the
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: same girls in in the in the class, you know.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: So that was fantastic. And I think just before I
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: left school at fifteen or sixteen, I started to play
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: in the local soul band. I sold those drums that
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: my mother works so hard to buy and put down
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: payments on an organ and started playing in this solan.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: How did you get involved in the Oregon? Yeah, good question,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: because they needed one, They needed an organist. And I
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: had had a go on a on a Hammond organ
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: that was in a recording studio that my friend had
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: a session there and great, and he sold me a
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: couple of chords, and as I say, then I wanted
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: to join this, this band, and I just started to
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: teach myself, learned some cords and stood at the back
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: and played quietly. Then what kind of Oregon did you buy? Well?
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: I wanted to buy the Vox Continental, which you probably
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: remember with the of course the back to front black
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: and white keys. But I couldn't stretch to that, so
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: I bought this other thing. It was awful. Actually, it
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: was made by Selma Selma Capri, and it was it
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: was rubbish. But many years later again I got my
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: mom to sign papers again and we bought the low,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: the low version of a Hammond organ. And then you
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: were always buying the equipment. It's hard to slap you know.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: You got the drums you got them and to work again.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, get into the gig is a big deal. Yeah,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: that's that's a good point, one of my favorite things
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: about But when I did the tour with the Ringo
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Star All Star Band, and he would he told a
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: story about getting to the gigs. He said, it was
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: always easy to get to the gig on the bus,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: you know, everybody give your hand, but getting home you'd
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: have to do it yourself, and you have to walk
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: down the street five yards with two cases, then go
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: back for the other two and walk down. Fortunately I
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: had my uncle, and you know I mentioned my mother's
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: family and how supportive they was. My my uncle used
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: to used to take me in his car. That's right,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: I remember now my uncle Percy. Bless him. So he
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: finished with school. So how does your musical career unfold? Well,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: as I said, I was already playing in kind of
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: semipro bands and I left school with no qualifications and
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to gig with Abandon. That's what we did.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: I think. The next step was when I was about seventeen,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: we did the thing where you go to Germany and
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: play the clubs over there. Of course, that was the
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: way that the Beatles have done it years a few
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: years before. So we went over there. I played for
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: a month at the Top ten club in Hamburg, for example,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing, and it was great. We loved it.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're we were we were very thin back
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: in those days, but we were just having a great time.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: So you come back from Germany and um, well I
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: remember now on this because we were playing covers. Yeah,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: we we We were playing with the two bands would alternate.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: You play forty fifty minutes, the turnaround, the other band
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: would play fifty minutes, and that went on through the night.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: And we met up with these other guys who were
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: doing you know, on with us, and we we started
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: to get into music and we were listening to music
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: and smoking pot and listening to the stuff that was
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: happening in the sixties, and wow, this is happening. And
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: we decided we were going to go progressive. So we
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: we formed this band. I'm trying to keep it a secret,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: but it seems to be coming out of it's pretty dreadful.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Um we were. Our big heroes was Frank Zappa and
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: the Mothers of Invention exact. Yeah, good heroes, but hard,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: hard act to follow. So yeah, we went through that
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: sort of phase and you know, live in hand to mouth,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: but you know, and then it was playing in Germany
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: and the college circuit and everybody wanted free music. And
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: that was that when you had the kids storm in
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: the place, they wouldn't pay to come in and stuff,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: and it all got a bit political and serious and crazy,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: and then everybody went, hang on a minute, now, this
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: is ridiculous. And that's when we started to go back
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: to rock and roll, playing in pubs around London and
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: this is called pub rock. Very original idea. But and
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: that's when we formed ACE, playing around the pubs in London.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: And so what point do you become a songwriter about? Then?
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Prior to that, with this um sort of mothers of
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: invention type band, we used to write these long pieces
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: and that went on for twenty minutes or whatever, and
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: then and then would go free form. But then we started.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: I start when with ACE, I started to write songs
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: and one of the first songs I wrote was how long? Okay,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: how could you write such a good song right at
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: the beginning of your career? I don't know it. I
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: often think it's great that people say it's a great song.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: It's a very simple song. Don't tell anybody, but I
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: mean it's nothing much too. It's got a big old
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: hook and a verse that repeats itself. Um. But I
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: think back then I was naive enough to think, you know,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: that I was inventing this stuff. I'd learn a new
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: chord and it'll be like, oh, I'd like the sound
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: of that and make a song from it. So I
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: didn't have any trouble writing songs. Then, Okay, who owns
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: that song today? God knows. It's changed hands a number
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: of times. I think it's partly owned by Universal in
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: America and in some of territories it's owned now by BMG,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: a couple of people who've had it along the way
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: of rich iired and living in living in on a
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: desert island. But no, it was a pretty crappy deal.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Then do you still get songwriter royalties? We get some,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: I get some, yeah, but nothing like I've tried to
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: shame them. I've tried to shame them into, you know,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: making it more civilized kind of deal, but they won't
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: have it. And how about public performance? You know here
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: it's called Aska b M. I yeah, yeah, thank goodness,
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: that that was the only money I saw for a while,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: to be honest, from them, from that song. But I
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: do it does trickle through. It's still been good, don't
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: get me wrong. I mean if I get a half
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: or a quarter of what I should have a song
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: like that that hangs around for all those years, it's
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: it's pretty incredible really. So it goes on for a
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: couple of years with Ace. How did that end? Uh?
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Not very dramatically. It fizzled out, really, is the truth.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: We had that one big hit and it was the
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: only song like that on the record. To be honest, um,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: the two of the other main writers, because I was
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: the last one to join and to come in and
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: write stuff that it was formed by two other writists,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Phil Harris and Bam King, and their stuff was a
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: little more guitar blues country kind of stuff, and there
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: was nothing else that really caught the eye. Caught a
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: year and we made another album that didn't really happen.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: So it kind of fizzled out, is what happened. How
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: do you get hooked up with Jake Rivieria? Well I
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: knew Jake back in those days, but he was a
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: roadie for a band called Chili Willie and the Red
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: Hot Peppers, not obviously not to be confused used with
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: a band of a similar name. But so, while I
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: was in in Ace and we lived for about a
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: year in the mid seventies nineties six, while I was
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: living over there doing the Being all Californian and everything,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: how does the Being relocate to the United States? It
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: was our manager's idea. He thought that we, you know,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: we'd had this huge radio hit in in the States
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: and that we should try and make a go of
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: it in the States, which is what we did. So
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: what was it like, boy from Sheffield is living in
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: sunny southern California. Well, it was a bit unreal really
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: because it was beautiful, it was fantastic, but we didn't
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: get any work done. You know, we were messing around
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: and going to the beach and playing soccer and all
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: the rest of it, but and not writing any good songs.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: So but meanwhile in the UK things had gone changed
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: completely and Jake, Jake Riveria had helped to found Stiff Records,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: which was, you know, at the forefront of all the
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: punk and new wave stuff. They found Elvis Costello and
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: in fact, our good friend when we were living in California.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Down the road was our friend Pete Thomas, who had
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: played in this band Chili Willie and the Red Hot Peppers,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: and he was living over in the States and playing
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: with some people like John Stewart and the Country People,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: and he got the call from Jake to go and
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: play with this guy, Elvis Costello. So Pete went back
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: to UK and six months or sold later we went
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: back and it was like, oh my goodness, it's all changed,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: you know, it's all it's over. You know, we've got
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: beards and long hair and everything. They hate us so
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: but anyway, so I just started to work around London
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: doing sessions. I worked with with Roxy Music, helped made
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: a couple of records with them and toured with them.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: And then Jake had taken on Squeeze. He started to
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: manage Squeeze and the keyboard player Jules Holland had left
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: the band. They auditioned tons of people and Jake said, well,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: why don't he try Paul Carrot. He's back in town.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: He's been playing with Roxy Music. He shaved his beard off.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: You're getting me and I went down an audition with
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: them about a week before the recording of east Side
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: Story album and and the next thing I know, I
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: was in the studio with him. Okay, how did you
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: end up playing You're a guy with one hit from
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: a failed band, how do you end up working with
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Roxy Music? Well, um, I don't know how interesting this is,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: but now it's interesting to Okay, Well this is what happened.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Is that, Yes, I said, I went back to UK.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: I thought I figured it was kind of over, but
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: I started to play a few sessions. I just wanted
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: to all the what I thought were the best players
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: in London that that's what they did. And I used
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: to hang out with this group of players who I
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: really admired, and they had played on the Brian Ferry
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: solo records. And when Roxy reformed to make an album
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: called Manifesto and then Flesh and Blood, they got Brian
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: insisted on having these guys play on the records and
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: they said, well we got this other guy now and
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: he plays keyboards, let's bring him along. And that was me. Okay,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: so good experience, bad experience. Oh yeah, good experience, Yeah,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: good experience. I mean it wasn't what I'm a bit
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: of a soul guy, you know, I wasn't at all
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: glam rock, you know, as the exact opposite, boring denim
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: plaid bloke. Um. But to go out on the road
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: with rock Shore. You know this was fun. You know
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: it's great. I enjoyed it. Yeah, there's a song on
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: Flesh and Blood. Oh yeah, I might well be playing
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: on it. How's it go? I just handed my mind
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: the song playing on there. I'm playing on that. I'm
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: playing on that. Yet there's this song playing on the radio.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: I'm playing the strings in there. Okay, But you know
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: what made that record was the bass player, because that
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: song was not happening. It was like a do walk song.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: And then we went down the pub, came back Alan Spinner,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: great bass player, and he starts playing that Basseline doo
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: doo doo doo doo doo make actually made it? Yeah? Anyway,
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: going you're playing sessions. I know in Los Angeles, you know,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: people call their friends in, but usually if they don't
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: read music, they're squeezed out. Did you re music? And
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: how extensive was your session career and how did that work?
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Not reading music? No, I didn't read music. I don't.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think many of them in London did actually,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: But no, I was always pretty scared that I'd get
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: found out. You know that. You know that I couldn't
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: really play that well, but you know, my musical instincts
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: got me through. My ear and the musical instincts got
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: me through, and I just saw it all as a
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: learning experience. But I was always terrified for the first
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: half an hour or an hour that I get found out.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: You know, it's very insecure about that. So how did
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: it end with Roxy? I think it was just that
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: I did a couple of tours of them and made
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: a couple of albums, and then the opportunity to do
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: the Squeeze the thing came up, and I just remember
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: calling up Roxy and they said they kind of done
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: what they were going to do, and they said, no,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: go for it. And that's when I kind of got
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: involved with Squeeze. I didn't realize I was joining Squeeze.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: I thought I was just playing some sessions. But anyway,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: when did you realize you joined? I think when I
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: was on the plane going over to the States to
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: to do the first tour with them, UM, which was
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: a duel billing of Squeeze and Elvis Costello and the Attractions,
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: two bands on the same bush sixteen people. I think
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: they were on that bus. There were two bands. There
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: was a security guy because Elvis had caused some controversy
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: to a manager. Sixteen people. Can you imagine? So how
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: did you end up singing Tempted? Okay? Well, as I said,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: I was there to play keys, really, and we had
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: recorded pretty much the album. They had already recorded a
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: version of this song Tempted, which is completely different different
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: how it was just I've always think I only heard
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: it once or twice. It was produced by Dave Edmonds,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: and it was more sort of almost like super Tramp
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: or something and a bad fruit of na um. And
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: then this one day we started messing around in the studio.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: I'm playing Hammond organ and they're doing it in that
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: kind of soul vibe, and Elvis Costello was producing the record.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: He came running in and said like, let's put this down.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Let's put this down and put the track down. Or
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: everybody's like, ah, this is great, this is great. He said, yeah,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: but you know, Paul, you should sing it. So I
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: went in, why you You must have had a reason.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Perhaps he was just being nice. I don't know. I mean,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: I was kind of thought of as a little bit
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: of you know, the blue eyed soul singer even you know,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: and it was his his idea. And how did he
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: end up playing his response line there? I think he
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: was just very keen to get in on it because
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: it was a great song. And yeah, I don't blame him,
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: it's a great song. So at what point do you
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: realize you have this great unique voice? Well, I'm I
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: always fancied myself as a singer. You know, I'd sung
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: how long, and I'd sung all a lot of songs.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: And I'm talking about before that or before that. Well,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: as a kid, people remarked and they said, always got
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: a lovely voice, you know, at school and things like
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: that when I was little, little, you know. And but
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: other than that, um, I didn't really do anything else.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Even when I was in bands in the beginning, I
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: was only doing big backgrounds because usually there was a
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: one guy, a designated bloke at the front. And so
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: it wasn't until we we formed Ace and I started
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: singing lead. That's when I got the hang of it.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: I started to get the hang of it. Well, from
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: an outside perspective, your voice has not changed as good
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: as it ever was. I mean he's just you know,
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: freak of DNA or there are certain things you do
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: to make sure you protect your vocal chords or what's
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: going on there. Yeah, I think it has changed a
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: little bit. I think, I like to think in in
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of in a lot of ways, it's got better,
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: it's stronger, it's got a bit more tumbra to it.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: And I just try to stay healthy. I don't do
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: anything stupid like smoke or during hard liquor. Um, did
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: you used to smoke and drink hard liquor? I've done. Yeah,
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: obviously it's expected of you, you know, but I like
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: a glass of wine. But no, as I say, try
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: and stay healthy. I see all this stuff now and
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: YouTube and stuff like that. You can, you know, improve
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: your um, your voice and things like that. But blessed
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: with decent chords, you know, and and and the musicality.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: And I've developed it and used it, you know, keep
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: using it. That's the thing. Okay, Then you make a
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: solo album good Experience not so good Experience? Which one
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: was that? Well, let's go back one chapter. How do
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: you end up leaving Squeeze? Well, I was there for
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: about a year and I loved it. I was happy
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: playing keys, to be honest, because they didn't need a singer.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: They already had two singers. They didn't need a songwriter,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: particularly someone like me that wrote three or four chord
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: lovey dovey stuff. They had a thing now, had an identity.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: It was the songs. It was the sound of Glenn
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: and Chris singing, and they didn't really need it. So
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: I was having a good time. But it was obvious that,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: you know, if I was to develop as a singer
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: and a songwriter, I couldn't really do it within the
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: framework of that band, you know. And I wasn't going
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: to try and impose my style on on them. They
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: didn't need it. So that's kind of why I left. Well,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: you're walking from a good gig into the wilderness. It
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: was a good gig and it was fun. Yeah it
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: was great. But yeah, I made a lot of strange
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: decision and in my career, you know, they're not not
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: always been career moves, but it I'm not in a
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: bad place now. I love where I am now, you know.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: So if you have to do it all over again,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: what would you have done differently? Mm hmmm. Probably had
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: a bit more faith in my own self and my
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: own ability. But that's easier said than done. You know,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: it's tough to to make your way in in in
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: in in this music. It is tough. So and I've
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: also had to have a family, you know, to bear
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: in mind, and I wasn't prepared for them to suffer
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: for my art, you know, so I I probably wouldn't
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: change anything. I'll tell you why, because you know, people
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: will say, oh, you could have done this, you could
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: have done more. I could have done a whole lot less.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: I have had a great, very career, made some great people.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: I never expected to do this and get this far.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: And my career is actually not in a bad place
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: at the moment. I haven't a lot of people like
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: what I do. I have a great band who you know,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: support me, and I have a great family. I really
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: don't think I should ask for more. At what point
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: do you meet your wife in this journey? Well, a
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: long time ago pre Ace pre Ace nineteen seventy two,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: I think, and I just I just met her. We've
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: we've been together since that day Clider met her and
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: she came her friend had designs on one of the
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: other guys in the band, and she came along to
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: a support and I met her. I'm I'm afraid it
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: was like that, and at what point to get married?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: Where we were together for seven years and then we
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: got married and not long before our first son was
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: born and we have had four great kids and we
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: now have two and a half grandchildren one on the way.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: So yeah, and she's been She is great. She's a
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: great person. She's honest. Being on the road good or
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: bad for the relationship, Well, it doesn't make life easy.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, goodness knows how she got on with four
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: young kids, um while I was away, But you know, yes, so,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: and she never gave me any grief about that. You know,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: it was accepted. This was the only way I knew
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: to make a living and this is the way he's
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: going to have to be. And it's it's great now
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: that I've you know, had a little bit of success
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: here along the way and I can help them. But
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: it was tough, you know, being away for and that
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: was a sacrifice sometimes, you know, to be away with
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: a band that you're not fully part of, and yet
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: you I'm a team player. I am a team player,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: and I would always do my best whatever the situation,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: and feel obliged sometimes, but you know, my wife, God
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: bless her, gosh, I don't actually did it. So prior
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: to meeting your wife or maybe after, to what degree
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: were you enamored of the sex, drugs, and rock and
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: roll lifestyle. Well, I think I took my share. I
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: don't like to talk about it. I don't like to
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: talk about it with my kids, um because three of them,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: for sure never really never to my knowledge, we're interested
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: in that one who's the chip of the old block.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure dabbled in various things. I'm hoping they're
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: not going to hear this, but I think that you're okay.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: But no, I mean, you know I was expected of
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: you and and and no, I'm guilty has charged, but
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: not for a long time, not what not. As soon
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: as the family started coming along, it was obvious that
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: they didn't mix and I didn't. I didn't have a
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: rock and roll family. I didn't have rock and roll kids.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: You know. I wanted a stable I didn't want any
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: of that in their life. So when we were talking
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: about the Doover thing, you were saying, if you had
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: more confidence in yourself and your talents, I mean, the
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: fear is just totally exterior. They don't really see what
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: goes on in the mind. Are you telling us that
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: you really didn't have enough confidence both to go out
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: on a business level and artistic level? You just saw
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: yourself as a band member. Yeah, I think I was
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: happy being in a banned environment, playing with people having
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: fun out. Just thought maybe it wasn't for me, you know,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: to to have that. I didn't want it. I know.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: I know the people that want that, you know, they
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: have to they have to want it. And I was
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: never that pushy, you know. I'm, as I say, more
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: of a team player. But I love singing, and so
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: I've had to some extent make myself do that, you know,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: have a bit more confidence, and and I have, I have,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: I have now, But um, I just don't think you can.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: You can. You can't really say would I do it
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: all again? Because you know, you've got to have the
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: guts to do it, And maybe I didn't have the guts,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: you know or whatever. I don't know. We're where where
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: we are now. What would the guts have looked like?
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that means to be honest. Well,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: I mean you made it from Sheffield with the outdoor, toilet,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: to to you know, to the hit parade? What what?
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: What kind of characteristic would it have taken? They let me.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: But is it such that this is your personality or
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: the boy from Sheffield? He can't take the boy out
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: of Sheffield? Or can people change or not change? It
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: could be I mean Sheffield people generally speaking, they are
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: kind of self effacing. They do get their self deprivation.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: What's the word um in? They don't like people that
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: get to big for their boots. As I say, I'm
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: a team player. I could make all the excuses in
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: the world, but it boils down to the fact that
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: you know, you've got to want want it, and you've
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: got to be self orientated. I was. As I say,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not complaining. I think things are gone pretty good.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: So ultimately, you have a solo record, you have a
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: hit in the United States, So do you think you're
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: on your way? Then? What's going through your mind? Are
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: we talking about don't shed a tear? Yeah no, no,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: we're talking about I need you, I need you before
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: I need you? Yeah, I need you was just kind
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: of top thirty. Yeah, that was stripped step in the
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: right direction. Yeah, I thought things were moving. Well, there,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: I was in working a lot with Nick Lowe um
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: back in those days, and yeah, I was and a
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: bit more confident and cocky then. Um, I'm trying to
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: think chronologically how things happened. I know that after Mike
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: and the Mechanics, I got a solo contract and I
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: had my first top ten hit, which is the song
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: Don't Shed a Tear, and that was pretty exciting. Sadly,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: my wife got ill at this at this time, and
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: we I was on tour in the States and I
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: had to go home and we had to um, you know,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: take care of her for for for a little while.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: So we lost a little bit of momentum there. But
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: as I say, I'm where I am now, I think
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: is a pretty good place. So how do you end
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: up working with Mike and the Mechanics? Um? Do you
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: want the long story? Give us a lot? Sorry, okay, Um, well,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think now. Okay, So I had a
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: band with Nick low for several years, which, okay, let's
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: start there. How do you end up thou falling in
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: with Nickolo? You must have known him from the stiff years,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: but how do you reconnect? No, I knew him before
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: then I knew him before the stiff years. How did
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: you know? How did you know him? Well? Because we
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: were on this pub rock circuit. I was in Ace.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: He had a band called Brinsley Sports, and they were
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: probably the best band on that circuit, but we were
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: the ones that had the lucky hit anyway, so we
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: I didn't then see much of Nick for many years
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: until he became this record new wave record producer, producing
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: The Damned and Elvis Costello and these people, and and
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: then we all ended up under the same roof, under
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: the Jake Rivereia stable because Nick was always with Jake
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: and he'd taken on Squeeze and Nick produced my first album,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: which is called Suburban Voodoo, which is a very fueled
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: kind of record. Um, what does that mean? We were
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: loaded basically, you know. It sounds like it though, but
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: I bought it. I was happy, did you well? It
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: was very exciting. Where did this start? Now? Mechanics? Okay,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: So one of the reasons I had left Squeeze actually
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: was because I loved Nick and I wanted to work
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: with him. Um. He but unfortunately at the time he
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: wasn't having a great time. He was having a divorce
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: and all this stuff was going on, so he wasn't
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun a lot of the time. But
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: we had this band, and if if I had a
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: record out, we went out as Paul Carrott, and if
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: Nick had a record out, it was Nick Lowe and
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: the Cowboy Outfit or Noise to Go or what have you.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: And so that was great. We had it. We we
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: were playing up and down the states, either playing in
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: little dives or opening up for people like Tom Petty
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: on these long tours, opening up in the arenas and
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: what have you. Had a lot of fun. But then
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: it started to get a bit old, and we we've
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: all decided really that it's it's it's run its course.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: And coincidentally, I get a call from a guy called b. A. Robertson,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: who is um calls me up about the blue I
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: don't know him from Adam and he he's written this
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: song that he wants to pitch to a movie and
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: he says, Um, we should get that guy who sang
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: that song. How long? So he called me up and said,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: you're that guy that's saying that. Would you come and
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: sing this demo for me? Because I'm pitching this. I said, okay, yeah,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: because you never know. So I just went and did it.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't get paid or anything like that. Sang this
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: song for him and he said, oh, by the way,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: I'm writing songs with Mike Rutherford from Genesis. He's making
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: a solo record and would you think you'd be interested
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: in coming down and singing a couple of songs on that?
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: And I said, sure, yeah, why not? And so I
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: went down. I met Mike, went down to the Genesis
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: studio there and they said, just going. You've got this
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: little song. Here's just three chords, just going there, blues
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: away and it was this song Silent Running or can
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: you hear Me? So they only had the can you
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: hear Me a bit at this point and then and
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: I'm just riffing away and they said, oh, that sounds great,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: and b A went away and wrote this weird lyric
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: and I sang a couple of songs, a couple of
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: three songs on that first album, and then thought no
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: more about it. And then the record came out and
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: it was well received, and Mike was in a position
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: to assemble this kind of studio band into a touring band,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: and we became Mike and the Mechanics. Okay, then there's
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: the second album with Living Years. Yes, so how is
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: that album, ma, because you're a member of the group
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: now the Mechanics and one of the Mechanics. Yeah, and
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: not Mike though, as my news agent used to think.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: But yeah, well I was. I was really happy to
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: get to sing that song. Um. Obviously I kind of
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: felt it was a bit of a tribute to my dad,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: but it was. The song really was about BEA's relationship
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: with his father and all the rest of it. But
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: so that's a kind of a feather in the cap.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: We were nominated for Grammy Awards and all sorts. We
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: didn't get it, but nevertheless we had some good success
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: m for for a few albums, and it was good fun.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: But it was it was Mike's project, you know. So
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: how does it feel when you're not writing the songs? Well,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: originally I didn't mind because it was it was different
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: to anything I would have been involved with. You know,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: it still had that sort of genesis kind of connection.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: I was felt I was more of a root Sie
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: kind of guy, but it was something different. But I
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: was happy to be involved. And but then I started
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: to think, well, you know, it's the songwriters back in
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: those days that were making any of the money. So
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: and I also felt that I could contribute to the songwriting,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: and fortunately Mike had already had this thought and started
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: to include me more in the songwriting. And how did
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: you write Over my Shoulder? Very quickly? Pretty quickly anyway,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: I mean I went down to Mike's house and he said, okay, well,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: I've got this little idea, and he started strumming the
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: open chords as you're probably familiar with, and I started,
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: and we put the cassette player on and I started
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: to riff away. And after twenty minutes of riffing on
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: this on these chords, the tape ran out. And I
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: had been thinking, I don't think he's digging this because
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: it's it's too pop for him. You know, he's not
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: gonna like this anyway, and then he said, actually, you
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: did something at the very beginning of the thing. And
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: we were around the tape right to the top and
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: there I'm singing for whatever and it reason looking back
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: over my Shoulder Lady ballad, and he he loved it.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: So I was great. It was a whole shape was
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: there from the get go. And then I took it
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: away and wrote some lyrics to it and that was it.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: But that was a big song in Europe and the UK.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: But I don't think it ever took off in the
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: of that album though. And I certainly know that song.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: That was my favorite song on the record. Uh, but
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: how do you normally write a song? I don't know, Bob.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: I was hoping you weren't gonna ask me that one.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: You know, some people sit down there with a pad
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: of paper and they write and they scratch. Other people
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: are taking a shower. They get an idea. Some people
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: all comes all together, some people working for a year.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: Usually it's it's a musical idea that would just come
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: from jamming away and a phrase. You take that phrase
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: and doing and then and you add to it. I
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: very rarely have a plan. I very rarely have an
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: idea of a concept or even a title. Um that
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: all seems to come later. If if I'm lucky, something
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: comes off the top of my head that sings good
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: and that I can do velop and make into something.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: Once I get a start on it, I now have
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: the confidence that I can make reasonably decent lyric. It's
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: not going to be that original I'm not intellectual, as
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: you probably guess by now, I should think. But and
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not a reader. I'm not. I don't read books
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: so much. I read news and articles and stuff like that.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: But I like to think I can make something it
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: it's probably borderline cliche, but I can make it sound
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: not too cliche, and it can sound good. It will
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: sing good, because that's important as well. So the kids
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: are out of the house, you can't play music seven,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: you're not reading books? What do you what takes your
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: time up all day? What do you do? I don't
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: have any problem filling in my time. I've got this
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: little studio at home, and if I'm not on the road,
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: I'm in here messing about um. Yeah, I think that's
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: where most of my time goes. I still like soccer,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: but my team is really awful and terrible. But what's
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: your team? My team Sheffield Wednesday. We're now in the
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: third division. They've been in the Premier League and back
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: in how long ago were they in the Premier League?
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: About twenty years guys? Sorry, when I was growing up,
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: they were real good. Who owns it now? Oh, it's
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: owned by a Taiwanese Is there any is there any hope. No,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: there's hope that we will survive, which was looking a
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: bit scary at the beginning of this year because this
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: guy spent a whole lot of money, which are not
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: allowed to do in the lower divisions, and we were
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: in all kinds of trouble and we're getting points deducted
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: for the financial stuff, and he'd blown a load of
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: money on the wrong players and he didn't know what
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: he was doing, but he insisted he did. So I
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: thought we were going out of business completely. But there's
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: hope they will survive. But to be back in the
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: Premier League, it's a different planet now. The money up
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: there is just crazy. And then you work with Elton
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: John as a keyboard player himself. How do you end
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: up working with Elton John. Yeah, he's a great piano player,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: but he doesn't play organ, and organ is different thing.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: It's just different. I mean, he probably could if he
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: could be bothered to figure it out. But actually I'm
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: a better organ player than piano player. It's just because
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: you can get away with murder on the on the
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: organ if you know how to coax the sound out
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: of it. And I seemed to have a reputation for
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: playing the Hammond organ. So he actually he here's a
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: story for you. Are you're not getting fed up with
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: these stories for the best parts. So Elton was friendly
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: with Chris, different from Squeeze. I think it was to
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: do with the the program, you know, And I think
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: Elton was at one time sponsoring Chris. And one night
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: Elton turned up at a Squeeze show in a concert
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: in the in the UK and got up and sang
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: a couple of songs and the place just went crazy.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: And of course I've been playing organ that night, and
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: he must have thought, oh, well, we'll get him in.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: And I played on a couple of tracks, one of
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: which was apparently the B side or the extra track
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: on the famous Candle in the Wind, which at one
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: point was the best selling record of all times. So
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: my tenuous link to that is that I played on
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: the other track, which is called something in the Way
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: You Look Tonight. Yeah, that that track is a known
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: track to Okay, so you play the keyboard, you also
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: play the guitar. Can you just basically play anything you
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: have that facility? Yeah. I don't play any of the
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: wind instruments, but yeah, I'm not great, you know. But
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: I it's I've got the musical instincts and I have
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: a feel a natural field. You know, it's leaving. My
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: son is the same. You know, he picks up, he
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: picks up the guitar. He doesn't know what he's doing,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: but he looks like he's played it all his life. Um.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: So I have a feel, I have a groove, and
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: that gets me a long way. Okay, So at this
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: point you have a desire to leave a body of work.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: Isn't that sort of equivalent to having the hunger that
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: we spoke of earlier? Possibly? Possibly? I mean, I don't know.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I I it's tempting to say I've given
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: it a good shot. I've had a great time. We
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: could probably I could take it easy. Um, I don't know.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's in the genes or what
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: it is, or I just think I could have done
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: so much better. Not commercially, but you know, musically I
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: could have done better things. And maybe I had a
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: bit of recognition. Um that don't worried me too much.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: Probably scares me more than anything. But why does it scary? Well,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: only because I don't like attention. Really, you know, if
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: I go to the soccer game. I don't want people
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: looking at me Paul character. I don't want that. I
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: don't I just like to live normal life, albeit you know, comfortably.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: Are you ever recognized? Occasionally? But not much? Okay, So
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: we go through this history. Unlike someone who starts in
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: the band stays in that band their whole career, you're
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: constantly making new connections. Now people say, oh, it just happened.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: I've been around too long to know it doesn't happen
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: that way. What was that. I'm not a networker, so
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: how did it happen? I'm not a networker, and I
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: don't know. I don't hang out with Eric you know. Yeah,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: well you know you're established. But over forty or fifty years,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: opportunities have come up. Yeah, well they have just happened.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: They have just happened. I haven't been out there beating
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: the bushes looking for this stuff. It has just happened. Okay.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: But you know, there were no times to talk about
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: be getting married, having kids, or no times you're sitting
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: at home saying, man, I need a gig. I gotta
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: start calling people up. See what's going on. No, well, fortunately,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: there for for whatever reason, um, I things have come
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: up at the right time when I mean, don't get
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: me wrong, I was when I'm when when I'm in
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: my mid thirties and my early forties and I've got
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: no hair and I've got four kids. Yeah, I was thinking,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: oh my god, what am I gonna do? But thinks
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: always something always turned up. But I wasn't out there
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: on the phone hustling. Honestly, I'm not like that. So
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: you do a couple of songs. You write a couple
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: songs that end up being done by the Eagles, one
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: on their Health Reasons Over album, another one I'm a
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: long run out of Eden album? How did that happen? Again?
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: With the long sto Worice, It's a long story. I
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: want a long story. That's the best I've been going
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: to an hour and a half already. Um Well. I
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: first met Timothy B. Schmidt on our first tour, ass
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: first tour of America, when we were riding high with
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: our big radio hit and Timothy is in the band
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: called Pocole. We're both on the same record label. I
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: met him, seemed like a real nice guy, and I
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: didn't really meet him again until later when I think
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: I was probably on either doing my gigs with Nick
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: or in Nick's band, Nick Lowell's band, and Timothy came
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: down a few times with Don Henley, and I found
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: out that Don like what I did. He like that
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: Suburban Voodoo album, and um, so he came down to
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: a few gigs. And then must be skipping a good
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: few years here. But about in the mid nineties, when
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: the Eagles hadn't weren't together, you know, for whatever reason,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: I have no idea, none of my business. Um but
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: I got a call from Don Felder who was keen
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: to do something that he and Timothy and at that point,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: I believe Joe Walsh also they would wanted to do. So,
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: they wanted to work, They wanted to do a project,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: make a record, maybe do some gigs. And they called
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: me up out of the blue and said, do you
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: fancy coming over to California? And you know, see what happens?
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: And I did just like that, just got on a
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: plane and went over there, stayed at Don's place, and
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: I think it Joe at this point that bailed and
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: he'd gone to get himself sorted out. And so there
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: was done. There was Timothy and another guy called Max Carl,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: a great guy. He was in a band called thirty
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: eight Special, great singer, very funny guy, and we spent
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: some time writing songs, making some recordings, and everybody was
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: getting out, oh this is interesting, this could be good,
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah. And one of the songs
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: I took over there was this song level Keepers Alive,
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: which was i'd co written with Peter Vale Jim Capaldi
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: and with a view to taking it over for this project.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: And so we took it over there. I was singing
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: it and we were making these recordings, everybody getting cited.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: But obviously, to cut this long story short, now the
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: Eagles this I had to get back together. So that
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: was the end of that project. It never it didn't happen.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: But a few weeks later, um, I got a call
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: from Timothy and said, look, I need a song to
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: do on the Eagles album. How about I do love
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: Will Keepers Alive? And of course we said, well, big, yeah, absolutely,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: So he did that one and it was a big
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: radio record. It was part of the Unplugged thing and
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: all that. And likewise on the Health Freezers over Sorry
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: Long Road Out of Eden album, Timothy rang me up
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: and there's a there's another long story here, but basically
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: I wrote the song no No No, No, no No. I
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: want to hear that story. Just telling that story. Timothy
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: called me up and said, I need a song. We're
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: making an album. I need a song. Nothing that he'd
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: you know, presented to the band had been accept it.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: And I put the phone. He said, have you got anything?
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: I said, well, I don't, but I'll try and write something,
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: which I don't usually do. I'm not one of those
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: guys that does that. But I put the phone down
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: and literally came up with the chorus for the song
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: as I could hear the Eagles singing in three part
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: harmony sort of thing. And I made a little demo
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: and I sent it to Timothy and I didn't hear
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: much from him. But then he said, oh, we're coming
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: over to England. We're going to play in London. You
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: come on down, come to the show. And I did,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: and he said by when I went to the show,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: he said, have you got anything? And I said, well,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: there was that song I sent you. He said, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: send me that again. So I said, I sent it again.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: And then there were weeks and months probably went by
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: and I didn't I wasn't hearing anything, and I sort
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: of got in touch with him and I said, oh,
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: that song, I don't want to hear anymore. I said,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: if you if you're not going to do it, you
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: know I'm going to do it. So I think he's
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: he said, no, we were, Actually, I just you know,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: they he put it to the bend and they were
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: interested in doing it, and and they and the and
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: they recorded it and it went on a long road
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: out of it. I think it's a good song. Actually,
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: I don't want to hear anymore. How do you know
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: wading with Jim Capaldi, I didn't really know Jim. I
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: think at one point he was possibly going to be
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: part of this project. To be honest with you, I
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: think they changed their mind about that, but at that
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: early stage it was possible he might be involved in this,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: in this Eagles offshoot thing. And so I met him
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: and we got together with this guy Pete Vail, who
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: there's a good song writer. Yeah, and that's what we
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: got together and wrote that song. Okay, So how many
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: people went today? When you go out on the road,
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: how many people do you take? How many people are
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: in your band? There's there are there six or seven.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: We are We're seven. We have two drummers, one of
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: which is my son Jack. He's been with us about
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: ten years. They are bass, guitar, keyboards, sacks, and myself
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: playing keys and guitar alternating. How many is that that?
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: Six or seven? I wasn't. Okay Um, yes, so it's
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: it's it's quite a big bend, but it's great. The
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: guys have been with me for twenty odd years. They're
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: all from Sheffield, so they're all they're all proper, down
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: to earth guys than none of these hustling kind of
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: I know that's I don't want to disrespect anybody here,
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: but you know they're not hustling for gigs like you
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: have to do in London or l A or New York.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: You've got to be busy. They're not. They're up in
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: in Sheffield and they're not working with me. They play
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: with their other things. There are other little projects and
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: it's like a proper band, except I'm the boss. And
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: how did you meet the guys from Sheffield? Okay? Um,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: when I started doing this solo thing, nobody knew really
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: the name Paul Carrock. It's probably like it is in
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: the States. You go how long? Oh yeah, I know,
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: how long? Live here? I love that song. It's all
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: that Paul character. I've never heard of him. So I
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: started doing these small gigs and I was using guys
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: from London who were, you know, proper session guys used
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: to a high standard of not just wages but all
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: the rest of it, the nice hotels, the nice travel
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: and I couldn't give it to them. But they were
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: trying to help me. But I felt it was a
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: burden because I felt I'm not giving them what they
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: do and what they used to. Anyway, I met I
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: met this guy at the football but the Sheffield Wednesday game,
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: and he was like this small time agent up in Sheffield,
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: and I tried to explain to him, oh, yeah, I'm
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: doing some gigs, but I no, I don't make any money.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: No I don't mean yeah, I'm driving the van. And
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: he couldn't get his head around this anyway. Eventually he
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: said to me, well, listen, I've got this band. They're
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: really good. Um they got a lead singer but where
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: he can play the keyboards and he could they could
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: do your gigs. And I went and I went and
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: met these guys and they were like oh yeah, great.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: So they I bolted myself onto this northern club bend
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: and it was initially a lot of people thought, what's
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: Paul doing. He's playing with these guys up north, and
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: but it was worked great because these were these are
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: great guys. They loved the opportunity to play with me,
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: and they could all play good. But they didn't have
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: reputations or big names or anything like that. So and
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: that's it. And from twenty years we've grown to a
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: really good a really good band. Many people on the
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: business side would say, you take it out seven people.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: Are you supposed to make any money? Well, I don't
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: pay him much, you know, Well that's that we are.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: We are doing okay, because we know what we're doing.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: It's easy to waste money. It's easy to waste money
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: making a record or going out on the road if
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: you don't know what you're doing. But if you do
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: know what you're doing, and you you spend the money
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: in the right places, but you don't waste money, then
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: you know you can make it workinly Okay. We know
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: there's studio side, What are the dig a little bit
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: deeper on the road side, what are the key things
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: you must do or not doo. Um, you must be
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: good every night. You must be good every night. It's
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: not good being on fire for three nights and then
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: burnt out for the rest of the tour. You know
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: you that's one thing, um or are you talking sort
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: of financially again? I like both of them. It wasn't
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: asked the other question. Yeah. Well, initially we weren't making
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: any money, um, but I didn't have to lose money
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: because they took reasonable wages. We didn't over extend ourselves.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: We did things very basically, and we've built up a
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: following from digging and gigging and gigging, and each year
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: our standard has gone up. A standard of sound system,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: I standard of production, lighting venues, it goes up each year.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: So now we play nice theaters here in the in
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: the UK and people keep coming back, you know. So
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: it's I think that's how you do it, and how
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: do you grow the audience you're talking about you have
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: to be good every night? What are the other keys? Well,
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know the secrets to uh, you know, social
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: media and all that. I'm not a very not really
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: a social media animal, but I guess you can make
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: that work for you. But in our case, it's been
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: a case of you know, winning people over. We're we
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: we we we we take them. We take it seriously,
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: our responsibility to two people. You might think that people
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: that's obvious, but it isn't. In a lot of cases.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: You know, some people kind of take their audience for
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: granted a little bit. I don't know. I shouldn't be
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: saying that, but we don't. I know that. So to
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: what degree does the audience know the material? You're putting
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: out new records constantly, So when the audience comes, do
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: they know this music? How much of it can you play? Yeah? Well,
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: it's a mixture because obviously we always include six or
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: seven songs there that are pretty substantial hits, Living Years,
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: how long Tempted? Uh, you know, Love will Keepers Alive.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: These these are pretty big songs. So we're always going
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: to do them. We love doing them, we love the response.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: So we've got people who know everything we've done, and
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: there's other people who may have heard a couple of things,
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: and then they're often surprised, Oh I know, right, you know,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: they know that they don't realize until they get there
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: that they know more of the material than they thought.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: But we've got some pretty pretty uh great fans. And
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: do you personally go out to the merch table and
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: sign and meet people? Actually, you know, I used to.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: I used to do that just to prove what a
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: nice guy I am. But I did I realized we're
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: touring in the middle of winter. People are coming up
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: to you, going nice to meet your paul. Um. So
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: we stopped doing that for hygiene reasons. And you say,
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: you you play the first couple of months in the year,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: can you go back to the same markets every year?
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: It seems so wow, that's really great. Okay, So if
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: you're looking at what we are always changing, we all
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: we usually have a new album out and we include
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: new new stuff from that. Look, you're on stage the legends,
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: they play new music. It's a cliche. Everybody goes to
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: the bathroom. Yeah, how do you decide how much new
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: music to play and how do you keep the audience interested?
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: That's a good point. I mean, well, we're not we're
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: not a greatest hits act. Um. I don't think the
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: music is the music is not inaccessible, if that's a word. Um,
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: you know you usually get this music or you don't,
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: you know, it's not that demanding in that sense, I
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: don't think, um, but I don't know. Obviously, it's uh,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: it's something we have to think about. But I think
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: generally speaking, they like the need, they like to hear
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: new stuff. Okay, if you look back at the landscape,
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: what are a couple of records not your own, not
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: once you've worked on that are important to you, that
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: really motivated you or stick with you or you still play.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: I love Talking Book, Oh yeah, especially at the time.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: I thought it was a groundbreaking, revolutionary and it was
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: one guy as well, a lot of it, you know,
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: playing the stuff, and it had this own personality and
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: it wasn't even quantire back in those early days. It
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: would just hung together beautifully. And I love Moon Dance
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: Van Morrison two great records. Just think it's a beautiful
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: organic record. I love the sound of it, I love
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: the band on it, and of course Vans great. Um.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's a very honest album. I love that album. Yeah, um,
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: what else is there an Aretha record? I play a lot,
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: but it's it's a compilation. I guess. I think it's
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: the greatest hits type thing. But again, it has that
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: great band feel to it. Life feel to it. I've
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: got a pretty mixed mixed taste in music. And are
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: you generally just playing your own music or are you
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: listening to other people's music. Do you keep up on
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: new music? Where do you fall on that to continue?
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't really keep up with what's going on.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: I haven't a clue what's going on. Um, I don't
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: listen to my own stuff other than when I'm working
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: at it, which I mean on the last year it's
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: been a lot because I've been doing it by herself.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: It does mean you're playing it a lot, you know,
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: because you're getting the parts right and all the rest
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: of it. But no, I don't listen to much new stuff. UM.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: I listened to a lot of old stuff. I listened
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: to like Amos Milbourne and Little Junior Parker and Mose
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: Allison and Donnie Hathaway, things like that. Some classical, some
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: English classical music which I find quite relaxing. And yeah, okay, Paul,
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: thanks for filling us in all this. Why you have
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: good vacation down there on the coast of Spain. Thank you, Bob,
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: so thanks so much for with this. You're very welcome,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: and thank you for your patience listening to us, no listen,
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: is a little deep that it's good until next time.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: This is Bob left six h