Latest / Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash / #190 Parenting Expert Gen Muir is in the house!

Transcript

#190 Parenting Expert Gen Muir is in the house! · Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Matt, the end of the school year is almost here,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: and as we all try to wind down, of course,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: the kids are ramping it up to.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: One hundred between Christmas, the endless summer holidays, and the
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: kids complaining about being bored every five minutes. The question is, ash,
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: how do we keep our call when the fights are
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: heating up? I know, Lola, at the moment, any type
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: of discipline is met with I hate you, and I'm like,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: that really hurts.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: It does hurt.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: But I want to know how do I tackle that?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: What do I do when my child is just treating
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: me with no respect?
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Whatsoever?
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: You get no respect around here, Matt. Good news is
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Jen Muir from Connected Parenting has a few tricks up personleeve,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: and she joins us. She's a mother of four boys,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: and she's had a fair share of meltdowns and mayhem.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: I want to call her the oracle.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I think she is the best resource for how to
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: parent better I've ever come across in my life. So
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: you're going to love this episode. And also she did
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: the unimaginable she did. She got you a little bit emotional, she.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Got me a little bit tire. I actually didn't quite
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent get there.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: I know you're fighting it. I was fighting about it.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: Let it flow.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I can't do it. I mean, there's nothing wrong with
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: a man crying.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: But we're one step closer.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: We are baby steps. Shall we get into it.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Let's do it?
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Welcome back to two doting dad and one doting mum.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I'm Maddie, Jay, I'm Ash, and I'm Jen Well.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: And this is a podcast all about parenting. It is
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: the good, it is the bad and the relatable.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: And Jen, we don't give advice, but if ever, there
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: was an episode where you want to take the advice
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: not from us, but from the expert. It is this
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: episode right now. People be very confused. We're going against
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: the grain of what we've always said from day tight, but.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: We can actually say we have an expert this time,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: not just another parent, well.
• 2:02
  Speaker 5: Hopefully an expert who's who's lived it.
• 2:05
  Speaker 6: Because I kind of agree with you.
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: I think parents are drowning and advice and I love
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: what you guys do. It's a lot of empathy and
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: a lot of bringing the dads in to the chat.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: And I missed the conversation that we had on our WhatsApp.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Ash you went to Jen's class.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, so let me cast you back.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: Was you a good student?
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Doesn't remember me? How? No, it was it was in
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: the middle of face marks time. Oh so it was
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: kind of ago. Yeah, yeah it was. It was twenty
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: twenty one in November, the twelfth of November there.
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: Were dark times post COVID round two lockdown.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And it was at the Marta, which is a
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: hospital here in Sydney, and you do a class there
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: for introducing your second or third whatever it is, to
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: your firstborn or the previous born child.
• 2:55
  Speaker 5: I am passionate about that class because I think that
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: we do a lot of preparing parents for that first baby,
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: and we wrap around them and we say, Okay, there's
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: a lot you've got to do. And then when people
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: get pregnant with their second baby, we say, well you'll
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: be busy.
• 3:11
  Speaker 6: We go, jeez, you'll be busy, but you'll be right.
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: You've done this before, and I think we're thinking about
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: the baby and you usually do feel more confident with
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: the baby. But what you've never done before is juggle
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: the needs of two children at two different stages.
• 3:26
  Speaker 6: You're often a.
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: Little bit poorer, a little bit busier. Often the support
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: that wrapped around you with the first baby goes.
• 3:31
  Speaker 6: Oh, your life is looking.
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: A bit messy and hard right now, and I've actually
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: got other things to do.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, And the key takeaway for April and I, which
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: we still use, is some advice you give about hugging
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: your firstborn and not letting them go until they push
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: you away.
• 3:48
  Speaker 6: And I want to add to that. Some of the time.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: You got, I'm just like, hold, what can you let go?
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: I only say that because I I once saw a
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: post on Instagram for parents never ever let a hug
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: go ahead of your child, and I thought, my God,
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: if I did that, I would still be because you.
• 4:14
  Speaker 6: Know, my kids wouldn't let go.
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: And I think sometimes as parents we do have to
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: let go. But I love that advice for people where
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: a child is adjusting to anything, whether that is becoming
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: a big brother or sister, or starting a new school
• 4:27
  Speaker 5: or whatever's happening, holding that hug sometimes and giving the
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: kids the power of when that hug ends is one
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: of the most beautiful things we.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: Can forgetting that rule.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: It also feels that it's not a rule, though, what
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: do we call it?
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: Like, it's just something you do every now and then
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: we can fill our child's cup by just going in
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: for a hug and allowing them.
• 4:45
  Speaker 6: It's a hack, it's a tip.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: It's nice.
• 4:48
  Speaker 6: It's a nice to add.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Well, it's nice to see the two of you back together.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: We normally start with a question that we ask I guess.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: And that question comes from me, and I want to
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: cut you to cast your memory back to the most
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: trouble you got in as a child.
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: Do you know I was a really good kid. It's okay, sorry,
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: I was a good kid, but my feet were very
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: accident prone.
• 5:19
  Speaker 6: And what I will say to that is, I'm a
• 5:21
  Speaker 6: child of the eighties.
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: I was completely let loose to run around the neighborhood.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: Where did you grow up?
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: I grew up in Sydney, in Lynnfield, not too far
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: from here, where there was a huge amount of wisteria,
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: you know, the purple flowers that bloom at Christmas, and
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: you know what with sirias full of is bees. I'm very,
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: very allergic to bees. I have been stung in my
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: life by treading on them by seventeen bees. And every
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: time I would tread on a bee, my foot would
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: blow up like ten times at size and I would
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: be on crutches for about two weeks while I return.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Eventeen's got to be a record.
• 5:57
  Speaker 6: It's a record.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Well it was in one one sitting you got.
• 6:01
  Speaker 6: Stung No, no, like over my life. I trod on seventeen.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Remember that. I don't remember the last time I was
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: stung by it be.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: So I thought for a second, you got to take
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: by seventeen bees.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: What's that movie where the guy died? Don't bring up
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: my girl, My girl, my girl. I thought it was
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: some of us.
• 6:19
  Speaker 6: I won't get through it if we bring up that.
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: And then on top of that, you know, we used
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: to play this game on the trampoline where we'd turn
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: the trampoline on its side. Does anyone remember this is
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: you're too young?
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: I remember this older than.
• 6:35
  Speaker 6: I'm older them both.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you for making me seem like I'm older than Okay.
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: But back in the rough old eighties, where no parents
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: were watching, you turn your netting free trampoline with springs
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: on its side. One of you would hang on the
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: netting while all the kids from the neighborhood pushed the
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: trampoline down.
• 6:53
  Speaker 6: Back onto his feet, back onto his feet, and you'd bounce.
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: And one day I was hanging on the netting, and
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: the neighborhood pushed me a little too far and went
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: back over me, and the trampoline crushed every bone in
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: my foot. And then another time I kicked in you
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: know those marbled glass doors my siblings.
• 7:12
  Speaker 6: I was the youngest child. My nickname was Blob because.
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: Like they just thought I was the blob that came
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: along and ruined their lives.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: That's beautiful, beautiful blob.
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: And one day they were they locked me out of
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: this room and they were singing.
• 7:28
  Speaker 6: No blobs allowed.
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: So angry, I kicked my foot through this glass door
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: and again, yeah, wound up in hospital with smashup.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: I could have died.
• 7:40
  Speaker 6: I could have died, I could have.
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: Broken an artery. My parents went there. They were renovating
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: a house around the corner. My mom like crashed a
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: car coming back to get me. Anyway, So my thing
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: I got in the most trouble for, I think was
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: my feet.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Do you remember the punishment for smashing the door? Though
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: punishmenthold sash doors left.
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: From I do remember being chased by my mum with
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: a wooden spoon at one point, back in back in
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: the dark memory.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: To set every listener off, right now with the trauma.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: When my mom, who lives with us, do some cooking
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: and she drags a wooden spoon.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you should whip it out of like I
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: was like, I didn't hit you that much.
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: I once went on TV and I was talking about,
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: you know, smacking kids, and I was saying, you know,
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: like we're all children of the eighties and parents used
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: to smack, and now most parents are sort of looking
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: to do their discipline in different ways. And my mum
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: had minded my kids for me while I was on
• 8:36
  Speaker 5: TV doing it, and I got home and she goes,
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: we didn't smack you that much.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Two versions of reality.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I did a call out for listeners once of what
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: were hit With.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: A few of them. I was like, we should report this.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Oh man, you've got four boys. And I just got
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: to say, like.
• 8:59
  Speaker 6: Fuck, lucky woman. Lucky woman.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that's amazing.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I imagine there must be so many moments where you're like, oh,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: this is tough.
• 9:10
  Speaker 6: Do you know what, No, it's divine.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, well that's what we've got time.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: What she looks like she's been smoking.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: I mean my mother in law once minded my kids
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: to me and she said afterwards. I think you are
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: like the frog in the slow boiling pot of water.
• 9:29
  Speaker 6: You don't even know you're dying. That's from me, But look,
• 9:36
  Speaker 6: do you know what? It's a lot of fun.
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: I think I deeply always wanted the night I met
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: my husband at a house party in Erskineville at twenty
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: two years old, and I saw his giant afro under
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: a floodlight, and I went, that is the man.
• 9:51
  Speaker 6: I'm going to marry.
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: I came home and I wrote in my diary I
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: met a man tonight, and I want to have a
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: thousand mini hymns.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Wow, you do? It must be the loudest household.
• 10:02
  Speaker 6: Like it's loud. It's actually, you know what.
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: Boys are a lot of movement, Like we do not
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: have a meal where someone doesn't.
• 10:09
  Speaker 6: Fall off a chair ever.
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: And you laugh, but you just don't get it, like
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: they just fall off chairs and you just can't anybody
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: just sit on their bottom.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: I always say that my son's like a kelpie, yes,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: and my daughter's the opposite. And it's like, like, how
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: are you so different?
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: They're just full of beans.
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: Up, Yes, they're full of beans. They're full of movement,
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: they're full of love.
• 10:35
  Speaker 6: I love the laugh.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Well, it's quite fitting that you were doing a class
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: with ash about how to introduce your children, because you
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: have a story about a newborn and your toddler.
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: I do, yes, Well, this is a story that's in
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: my book and it's I guess it would be the
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: not the worst day of my parenting.
• 10:53
  Speaker 6: I think there's been some hard days.
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: But I think I was the kind of person that
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: went into parenting thinking, well, if anyone is going to
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: win the Olympics for parenting, this.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Girl fair enough.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: I think confidence.
• 11:06
  Speaker 6: I was like my mom was a therapist.
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: I had really wanted babies, dreamed of it, planned it.
• 11:11
  Speaker 6: I was a social worker.
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: I had read everything that was to read, you know,
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: much wanted baby and actually, for the first year I
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: had this first baby, he ate, he slept, he did
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: all the things. And I was kind of smug. I'd
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: go to mother's group and I and people would be like.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: You have a smug mom.
• 11:28
  Speaker 6: Oh my god, I want.
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: To go and poke my owner eyes out there. But
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: I was the smug mom and everybody was.
• 11:35
  Speaker 6: Like, you know, I'm tired, and I'd be thinking, well,
• 11:37
  Speaker 6: if you just had a routine.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Oh no, jem I was the same Malia. First, it
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: was just like the dream because we.
• 11:47
  Speaker 6: Were great, not that hard if you just.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Be I was the opposite. We had the kid, we
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: had the reflux kid, the dairy intolerant kid, the one
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: that wouldn't sleep.
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: So my second kid was the flux kids, okay, right,
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: And from the absolute get go, this child came out
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: screaming and screamed for two years and about it was
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: about three months in and I just remember this day.
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: It's like a really hot November day, you know, one
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: of those unseasonably.
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: Hot, sweaty days.
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: The baby, the baby would not go down, hadn't slept,
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: wouldn't feed, crying, and I had a two year old,
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: and you know one of those days where it's like
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: time is going backwards, not forwards, Like.
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: You're just like, how can it only be ten am?
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: I've lived forty eight hours of this day.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: It adds to it because you know that bub is
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: going to be so much harder for the tail end
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: of the day.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: When they miss their sleep.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: But also like all I want is that little moment
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: forty five minutes of just like one less child look after.
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: And so sort of it's a blurb, but I remember
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: my two year old eating a million tiny teddies, and
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: I'm trying to just settle this baby, settle this baby.
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: And finally I get the baby to sleep, and I
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: turn to my two year old and I go, I'm
• 13:02
  Speaker 5: just going to go put the baby in bed. Mummy,
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: will be just one minute, just stay here. The wiggles
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: are on, like you know, good boy, and he's like, okay, mummy.
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: And I go down and I lovingly put my baby
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: in his bacinet, like you know, the slow release so
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: that they don't notice the movement from your arms. And
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: the white noise is going and I'm like, oh my god, finally,
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: you know, just release this child off my chest. And
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: like before I can even blink, suddenly my two year
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: old's in the room.
• 13:36
  Speaker 6: I look down. Before I can do anything, he.
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: Just grabs the side of the bascinet. He looks at
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: me in the eyes and goes run. I mean, I
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: thought he was the spawn of Satan.
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: Oh my god. So the baby's screaming. I am like bawling.
• 13:55
  Speaker 6: The two year old is crying.
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: And the reason that it was such a hard moment
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: just my reaction, like my reaction in that moment was
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: not calm, and it was not connected, and it was
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: not anything I had kind of been really up until
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: that point.
• 14:11
  Speaker 6: And I think the neighbors would have hurt me yelling, and.
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: I remember just all of us sobbing for hours, like
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: I had to call my husband and go home, and
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: I just thought I never ever pictured parenting could be
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: this hard. And I think at the moment it wasn't
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: just the physical labor of it or the crying of
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: the baby, but the sense that I wasn't being the
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: parent that I wanted to be in the moment, and
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: I was so disappointed in myself. And then I was like,
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: I can't believe I'm not enjoying being a mum to
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: two kids, like this is not fun. And then the
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: disappointment in yourself, and there was just so much in it,
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: and and I.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Was guilt, must be off the richter because of your
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: profession at least, like when I feel bad, I'm like, well, look,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not an expert.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: I always tell myself that you were like, yeah, I just.
• 15:03
  Speaker 6: A little bit.
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: And then also you just you know, at that point
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: in time, I think and a lot of.
• 15:08
  Speaker 6: People will relate to this.
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: You're drifting out almost to see you can see your
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: old life and your goals and the parent you were
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: going to be before you had kids, and you can
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: see it on the shore, but you're drifting.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I don't remember before kids at all. I think I've
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: just blocked it out. But I can you saying that.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I can just feel.
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: The rage yes, and the mum rage yea, and all
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: the dad right.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: It would be going through my head, would be why.
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: Well. Then I was like, I'm pretty sure my two
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: year old is destined for prison.
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: That is a psycho thing to do. And in height,
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: I now know.
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: That he was this beautiful little baby that up until
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: that point had had this monogamous relationship with me, and
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: I had brought in this second child, told him it
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: was going to be his best friend. He's going this
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: is not the best friend that you promised. It's actually
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: a real pain in the ass.
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: You are tired.
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: I am missing everything we had and kids are going
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: to show that through behavior.
• 16:09
  Speaker 6: I now get what it was communicating take a breakup.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Really it is, you know, like in a way, and
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I guess like, yeah, you're right, it's you forget that.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: That probably was not the issue was that it was
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: just missing you so much that.
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: I think kids grieve the world they knew before that
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: baby came along. And even though there's so much to
• 16:29
  Speaker 5: love in being a big brother or sister, and they
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: can love the baby and still be grieving the world
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: in which it was just you and them.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Do you need to then allow them to grieve without
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: making it really obvious, like.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: We gather here today, how do you let that grieving
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to happen without trying to shine a spotlight on it?
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: I think we do it in three ways.
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: So we increase connection and we absolutely just love on
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: that kid, and we delight on them, and it's mostly physical,
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: it doesn't it's just literally kind of showing them, hey,
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: we have enough love for you and this baby. And
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: we do that with high fives and fist pumps and
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: holding the hug some of the time and just these
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: little gestures. We do it by setting and holding boundaries
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: that make them feel safe. So even though your world
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: has just shifted and the rug has just been pulled
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: out from under you, I'm still going to put you
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: to bed right. And we do it by holding space
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: for their emotions.
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: And that might sound like, I know.
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: It's really hard when you want a biscuit or you
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: want more TV. And it's hard being a big brother
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: or sister sometimes, isn't it. And we allow them that
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: space to actually show those emotions because they won't ever.
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: I mean really, I have heard stories and it's hilarious
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: when it happens, but they rarely come up to you
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: and say, hey, I've been thinking about our relationship and
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: things have shifted since the baby came along. Can we
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: talk about what they're going to do? Is we on
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: the floor or melt down or like you know, they're
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: going to do those behavior or shake the baby's bascinet, right,
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: They're going to show you through that behavior because that's
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: how kids communicate.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Wow, he's good. And also there's something that like you
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier with boys as well and my eldest, and
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I don't do it enough where I'm like, you know,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: it's hard being a big brother because and then I
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: notice how loving he is with mumots because of that,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: he wants he wants that space with Mum. Still, yeah,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: it's very.
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: Interesting, it's interesting.
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: I think one of the most powerful things I can
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: say to any one of my four boys is it's
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: hard being the eldest. It's hard being the I've got
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: this beautiful, little youngest, and he's like, you know, sent
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: to earth to test everything.
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: I take it also also divine, big hearted.
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: But every now and then I go in and say,
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: it's so hard because I was the youngest. So I
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: get him and I'm like, it is so hard being
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: the youngest, and he'll go, yeah, you know, oh.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: God, I need to use validating his feelings.
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Never I've never ever like, I've always been like, help
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: your sister, you know, but I've never been like, you're
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: the best big brother to her, like I've never ever
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: been down that track and all used. It's hard being If.
• 19:00
  Speaker 6: There is a magic bullet in parenting, that is it?
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Oh god, okay, right down, that is it?
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: Like think about you know, anything that happens. If we
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: can start with empathy.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Right and you usually empathy, it's way too late. I'm
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: so sorry. Sorry, I'm sad.
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: These kids don't love change right anytime we bring in
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: the change, I mean just getting into or out of
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: the bath can be a big deal for most children
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: right now.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: Sorry, we don't bath.
• 19:38
  Speaker 6: That is a hat. It's so I think my boys
• 19:43
  Speaker 6: years ago, it's so.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Hard to get them in there, and I'm like and
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: then they don't want to get out. But trust me, bro,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: when you're in there, you're going to love that. Then
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: they're in they're like it's pretty good, pretty warm.
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: And then you're like to get out and they're like no,
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: even if they're taking a shit in there, they're like, no,
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: I'm not getting out.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Get me out.
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: Oh my god, that is.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: The word, especially when it's like a decent scoop it out.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Oh you can't stomp it down because oh.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: Man, I've got a bone to pick with you. I've
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: been holding onto this for a while.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: I'm glad her not me.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Ash relaxed for a second. We had a podcast we
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: did together. I jumped on your podcast and I remember
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: a beautiful podcast, and I can't remember obating what you said,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: but it was along the lines of sometimes you just
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: got to pick your battles, you know, like, if you're
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: really struggling, as an example, to get your child to
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: brush their teeth, sometimes it's okay to take the path
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: of least resistance and avoid the brushing of.
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: The stand by rights with your dentist.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: So Marley is great for me in that I feel
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: like I can kind of always be in the case
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: I can say hey, do this, and she'll listen to me,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: whereas Lola, I don't have that same level of influence.
• 21:12
  Speaker 6: Laura, she's your second.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: She's my second size. So at the moment, she's four.
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: Because we did a podcast and we talked about how
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: she preferred Laura.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, she prefers Yeah.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: You know what the biggest game changer was when I
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: went away for I'm a Celebrity and she was kind
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: of like, oh shit, that guy.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: He left, and so that was such a game changer.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: But still even though we're.
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: A showja yeah, yeah, literally.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: But she'll always listen to Laura before she listens to me.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: And so like last night, for example, we got home
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: and every little step from when we get home when
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: we go to bed was just a battle from you know,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: every mouthful. It was like I was trying to spoon
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: hot lava into her mouth. She didn't want it, you know,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: going in the bath again, just like everything was hard.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Brushing the teeth was hard, and pajamas was hard, and
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: I was kind of thinking to myself, you know, at
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: what point do I say it's okay, I can take
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: the path of leash resistance and not push all these
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: little battles, But then I wouldn't get anything done. I'd
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: still be be eleven o'clock at night, and you'd still
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: be in their clothes.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: But she came home and daycare from This is.
• 22:16
  Speaker 6: The question of all parents.
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: And I have one phrase that answers It hit me,
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: Is this working for me? Is this working for my child?
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: And let me explain it. She says, I don't want
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: to brush my teeth. You get to ask does.
• 22:29
  Speaker 6: It work for me? For her to not brush her teeth?
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: Does it work for her?
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: And there are going to be times where where in
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: the kitchen and our kid wants a biscuit right at
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: dinner time, or they don't want to brush their teeth,
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: or they don't want to wear a hat or whatever.
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: I mean, the amount of battles, especially with a strong,
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: wild or a deeply feeling kid, which I suspect you
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: might have.
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: In that one, is going to be huge.
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: And the reason that question matters is that I think
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: that allows us as parents to step into that beautiful
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: kind of confident leadership role of Yet you might not
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: like this, but it doesn't work for me for you
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: to not rush your teeth where they hat.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: And to have any dinner.
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: Well, we can't force kids to eat, to sleep, or
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: to pooor we These are like biological processes, and always
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: if we can make kids feel safe, those things are
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: going to go better.
• 23:20
  Speaker 6: So let me jump really quickly into that.
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: But like, if your child doesn't want to eat her
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: dinner and she's come home from a day of daycare
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: and she's a deeply feeling kid, what I'm seeing there
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: before I see anything else is this is a kid
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: who through the day, her cortisol levels and her ability
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: of what she can tolerate and cope with is up
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: to here. And now she's with you, her safe base,
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: and all of this pushback has always been a sign
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: of love.
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: We've talked about this before.
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: Because kids will only push into a safe person a
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: relationship that can take it. So they push into it
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: a bit as a way of communicating I'm sort of struggling,
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: and you know, we can things, and we can hold
• 24:01
  Speaker 5: the hug sometimes, So I'd go, let's do two wheelbar
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: races up and down the hallway. And here's what's going
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: to happen in that moment. Number One, We've just put
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: input into her large muscles, so appropriate receptive input that
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: allows that little body that's kind of full of cortisol
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: after a day of daycare or whatever to sit for
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: maybe two minutes at the table. Right number two, she's
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: probably laughed while going up and down the hallway with
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: you that lowest cortisole and has her hunger cues able
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: to come on. And number three, you've given her like
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: a minute of connection and so all is kind of
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: okay in her world. That's your best chance of that
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: kid maybe eating. And then at the same time you
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: can also decide, well, I can't, like, you know, does
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: it work for me for her to eat or not eat?
• 24:41
  Speaker 6: Look for me, I'd go, I've got bigger fish to fry.
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: Because ultimately I'm trying to keep this thing on track
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: and get her in bed because it doesn't work for
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: me if she's not in bed at seven, because that's
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: what I would have been.
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: Like, that was my end goal.
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: So we look at those goals and I think that
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: is it working for me? Is it working for my child?
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: Can help you anytime you're te child wants a third story,
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: and you can go does that wear for me?
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it works for me. I'll read your third story,
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: or you know what I am tired. I'm about to
• 25:07
  Speaker 6: lose my mind and you are tired, And.
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: So as much as you want that third story, we're
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: not doing it. I love you to the moon and back.
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: You're allowed to be upset about it, but we're not
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: going to read a third story.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: I feel like I'm going to throw the law under
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: the bus for this.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Let's gay, but because we always had this thought of
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: during dinner, she has to sit down, and if she
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: then runs around, it gets her worked up that it's
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: harder for her to sit down. But you think it
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: could be beneficial. I have those little moments of exertion.
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: I think that kids might be sometimes their bodies are
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: telling us something, so she may need to move to regulate.
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: Like a lot of kids are still developing their sensory
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: systems as well. So sometimes the issue with food is
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: that they're busy. Sometimes it's set, they're emotional. Sometimes it's
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: that they've had a full meal at daycare and it's
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: just not the best time for that little body. But
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: often also their body is doing what it needs to
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: do to regulate, which is why everybody falls off the
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: chair at my house at night, because we're all kind
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: of like moving because that is how they're actually soothing
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: their system to try that new food or eat that veggie.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Well, if I'm saying it's, for example, it's now it's
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: time to get in the bath, and she's like, nah,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: she's not listening, And I mate.
• 26:14
  Speaker 6: I got a hack for you. Okay, okay.
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: So if I walk into my living room and I've
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: got a couple of kids there and just say I say.
• 26:24
  Speaker 6: Okay, boy, is it's teeth time?
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: Time to turn off the TV or stop playing with
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: your legos, We're gonna brush our teeth.
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: Can you imagine what happens?
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: The pushback is.
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: Just absolutely nothing, Like it's like suddenly everybody has a
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: hearing deficit?
• 26:40
  Speaker 6: What and if I push it'll be like whoa.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: This is the best part of the TV.
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: Round two if you can consciously do it. Number two,
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: I'll walk up. I'm going to firstly, like for my boys,
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: I'm just gonna I'm gonna straight their backside this, So
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: touch first before you ever say anything to your child,
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: especially thing I'm favorable, right, you're goanna safe.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: But the essentially you will tune.
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: Kids live in the moment, they live in the presence.
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: So if we can just touch them they're like, oh, hey,
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: you're there. So number one, we've got to communicate in
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: a way they can hear us and touches everything for kids,
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: So just a hand on the shoulder, hand on the bat,
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: a little bit of a rub. Right, you start with that,
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: and then you hey, guys, and then we want to
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: go with empathy. I can see you're having the best
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: time watching this show or playing with your legos or
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: playing with your dolls.
• 27:27
  Speaker 6: And I know it's so much fun. Right, I see you,
• 27:31
  Speaker 6: I hear you. Right.
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: Then it's time to brush teeth. And then here is
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: my super duper duper hack.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Right, that was good.
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: We've done They've they've heard you, they've felt empathized with,
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: and you've been really clear about what's going to happen next.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: Sometimes is like shut.
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: Up, okay, we'll get to that next Okay, but just
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: so they don't.
• 27:53
  Speaker 6: Then I do this.
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: I go thank you so much. I can see you
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: guys are moving. I really appreciate it.
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: They move.
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: It is unbelievable.
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: So sometimes you want to acknowledge effort before kids are efforting,
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: and it's almost like you've taken away the push back
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: opportunity or something like just say sometimes one of my
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: kids will drop an ice cream wrapper on the floor
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: shoves my head like the whole story of the fact
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: my husband buys ice creams every single day that I
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: don't even want in a house is another story. But
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: then the kids eat the ice creams and then they
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: just like, it's like this has gone from my hand.
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: And you might say, pick up that ice cream rapper,
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: and sometimes there's that look of light pushback like no,
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: I just want to have a fight about this, and
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: I go, thank you so much. I appreciate you being
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: part of the team.
• 28:39
  Speaker 6: And they do it like I'm telling you, it is
• 28:42
  Speaker 6: a hack.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: I actually just on that. I actually did that with
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Oscar where he had started this lego right where he
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: kind of was at a point where he didn't want
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: to go back to it because he was at a
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: hard point. And I was like, oh man, I really
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: can't wait for him it is. I really can't wait
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: to see this when it's finished. And I went off
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: and I came back and it was done, and I
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: was like, I was like.
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: I've got one more Okay, you go in your kids,
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: you got to clean up this room, and they all like, oh,
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: my legs don't work.
• 29:17
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: Suddenly everybody's like just unable and with little kid like,
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: I can't do this. Now my kids are like I've
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: got a fourteen year old, a sixteen year old. They
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: would like roll their eyes so far back in their
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: head they never come back.
• 29:29
  Speaker 6: But when they were little, I would I would go,
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: I'm going.
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: To close my eyes and I bet when I open them,
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: there's no way.
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: You guys could clean up all these toys. There's no way.
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: And they're all like, oh my god.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: My god, I do it.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: The reverse psychology and challenge of cleaning it up, like.
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: You can bring if you can bring a bit of humor,
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: and I know you guys can.
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: It is everything I reckon in parenting. It is.
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: It is the biggest shifter because often what we're really
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: looking at when kids are stark, it's cortisol and if
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: we can if we can make them laugh, that's ninety.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: There was a moment when I was Lola has always
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: been a very slow eater, and we watched is It
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Sea Beasts?
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Sea Beasts, Sea Beast.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Where it's for anyone who doesn't know, it's a story
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: about they're trying to hunt a monster that lives.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: In the ocean.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: How many times we've mentioned sea beats. It's a movie.
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: Is after my parenting time.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I think you could go back now.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: I watch it without him, and I was pretending that
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: the Cucumber was the ship from the sea Beast and
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: a bit like the he comes here planning for landing,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: but it couldn't. I was looking for the sea monster
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: because they were going to try and kill the sea monster,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: and Lola was a sea monster, and then she would
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: then come out and then eat the ship like sea
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: beast would.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: And then I would say, oh god, when I was
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: a ship because it because it got bit.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and she thought it was really funny, and so
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: she want to come back from another bar.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is an expert. I don't know, it's just
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: maybe in feeding fun feeding.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I have seen a few videos and I can't call
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: the exact specifics of why it's so beneficial, but it's
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: along the lines of dads prefer rough and tumble play
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: with their kids, and it's really beneficial. And I hate
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: to sound like I'm saying the right thing here, but
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: it releases oxytocin.
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, correct, correct, And actually actually it's really interesting when
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: mums and kids cuddle the highest oxytocin between a mum
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: and a child.
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: So that's the love hormone always.
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: But when dads and kids do rough and tumble play
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: and not just rough and dumb, because not all dads
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: are like the rough, but often dads are.
• 31:34
  Speaker 6: Good at being silly and they're good at play.
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: So all of those things that dads do, so whether
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: it's active side by side stuff, whether it's the rough
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: and tumble stuff or the silliness, I think dads are
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: willing to be a bit silly, that's when the oxytocin
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: peaks between dads and kids.
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: And so it's interesting.
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: I think that that's kind of this natural way that
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: we're designed to to sort of bring out the love
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: in our kids and kids need both.
• 32:00
  Speaker 6: Kids benefit so much from both.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: So my only issue with the rough and tumble do you.
• 32:04
  Speaker 6: Get in trouble for it at bedtime?
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: No?
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Laura is pretty cool with that, and I'm conscious that
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: like we try and do the rough and tumble as
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: soon as we get home, like.
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: We got the backyard, some kids benefit from it right
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: before bed.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I heard that.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: My god, I feel like I'm telling them to calm
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: down and that like that's the right thing to do.
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: But well, there's no wrong or right. It's just something
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: you just do what works. And parenting is an experiment because.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: They do get silly after the shower, they do get silly,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: and I think there's no more silliness because we're trying
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: to wind down. I think maybe that is like what
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I had learned during when they were much smaller, when
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: you're trying to wind them down when they were babies.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I just sort of carried that thinking that was the
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: right thing. But you just said that some of them.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: How do you know which one?
• 32:47
  Speaker 6: You're guessing half the time.
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: To be honestly, you know that the thing that I
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: do to tell am I have I got a kid
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: that's disregulated and silly. So kids will get at but
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: I mean quarters ol. The stress hormone will peak twenty
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: minutes before bed and twenty minutes after waking. So you're
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: going to see a lot of struggles in those two
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: points in your day always, right, and particularly at bedtime.
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: A lot of parents do get kids that aren't so
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: much melting down, but they're getting silly and crazy and
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: they're not listening and you're trying to like bring them down,
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: and you're trying to be all calm and you're trying
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: not to rock the boat and cause and melt down,
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: and they're just getting like worse and worse and worse.
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: And often at that point in time, what we're looking
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: at kids needing is a really clear, firm boundary of
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: like I can see you want to keep playing here
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: is what's happening. Boundaries coming in and your child will
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: melt down, but actually you're going to kind of end
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: it and help everybody sooner by holding that limit in
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: a way that's kind and firm.
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: And sometimes they're saying.
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: What I really need is to get wrapped up in
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: my dinner and have you pretend to eat me like
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: a burrito. And both can be effective. And parenting is
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: trial and error, like there's no map. And I say
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: to my parents because I do the class for people
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: having their first baby, and I try to say, I
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: know you don't know what you're doing, but I have
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: a sixteen year old and I'm teaching him to drive
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: and I don't know what I'm doing.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Very true, it's like a constant, like you're both learning in.
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: The time, you're always and you'll forever be the first
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: time parent to that child in that moment forever. Yeah.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: So my issue with rough and tumble, Oh yeah, Lola
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: loves it, absolutely.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: Loves it, and she more than Marley.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: She likes to get really into it and we have
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: these fake fights, and quite often she just always takes
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: it that bit too far, like she'll really like kick
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: me in the guts or sap me in the face.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Sometimes she'll spit my face like as a as a
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: like yep, put right in there. And my worry is
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: that she likes it so much, but it always ends
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: in the same way.
• 34:51
  Speaker 6: Where it's her kind of taking it too far.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: Taking it too far.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, but
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: I'm just in that moment I say I don't like
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: that and that and that's that's not good. But then
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: she's kind of like, shut the fuck up, Well it's
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: rough in table bro, like.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: It is such a baby, you're a grown man.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Because my fear is that if she's with a kid
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: in like the playground, that she's gonna because long of
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: my little bulldoze are that she's going to grab one
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: of the kids and like spit in their face.
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: And a teacher, I actually feel like I love this kid.
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: But what I would say is this, I'm getting the
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: sense this is a body that needs this to regulate,
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: and those same bodies that need this to regulate, they
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: will take it too far. And that's a it's a
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: couple of things. One, she just can't help it. She
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: just gets so excited and it feels so good. She
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: just goes that step too far. My eldest we call
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: him Old one step.
• 35:50
  Speaker 6: Because he always goes one step to I like his
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: whole life.
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: We go old one step, and you know he's sixteen.
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: I can't release the current stories.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: But yeah, he's still taking it one step too far.
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: But these kids, they get so into it. They're be
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: hearted and they live life and those experience to the fullest.
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: And so it is hard for her to learn those edges.
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: But through that rough and tumble, she is learning the edges.
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: And if you consistently like reminding her at the beginning
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: of rumbling or at other times, remember I don't like
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: when you spit in my face, and I don't like
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: it when you keep me in the nuts or whatever
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: else she's doing. And if you do that, what I
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: would tell your child in advance is if you do that,
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: I will stop you, and we will stop the game.
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: And we do that with love, because you don't want
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: to be a kid that is making social mistakes. Because ultimately,
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: let's go back to that question, is this working for me?
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: Is this working for my child?
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: Her?
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: Spinning in your face doesn't sound like it works for you, right,
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: And so you're instantly going correct, I'm assuming, I'm.
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: Assuming it doesn't work for you. Wouldn't wait for me,
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: and so you're like, well, it doesn't work for me,
• 36:58
  Speaker 6: So exactly what you do, what you do is beautiful.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: And now I would add, look at my face. I
• 37:03
  Speaker 5: don't like it when you spit in it. So we're
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: going to stop the game. I can see it got too.
• 37:07
  Speaker 6: Much, and you're a good kid, and I know.
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: You had so much fun and you couldn't help it.
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: I know that wasn't your intention to me. We don't
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: say all this, but essentially if we can say, oh, yeah,
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: that we're having so much fun, but I don't want
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: you spinning in my face. And I told you before
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: we started, if you spat or if you kicked me,
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: we would have to stop the game. So we're going
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: to stop now. We're not done forever. We'll try again tomorrow,
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: and that is so beautiful because you're helping her learn
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: to regulate.
• 37:34
  Speaker 6: Well, the bigger picture is not the behavior.
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: I don't care whether she's spitting in the face or
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: anything because she's little in it, it's so developmentally normal.
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: But if we want to help her with those skills
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: in the playground, practicing it with you is the vine.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: So do it love that.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: You mentioned regulation a lot and meltdown. I mean, I've
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: got two kids that melt down over various things as
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: they do, as does as do I yeah, at one.
• 38:01
  Speaker 7: Point, at one point, still still, And I think for
• 38:05
  Speaker 7: me it's also me trying to regulate my emotions and
• 38:08
  Speaker 7: also trying to figure out what they're melting down about,
• 38:12
  Speaker 7: because a lot of the time it's something so small
• 38:14
  Speaker 7: and you.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Think it's ridiculous, and that's my first thought. But it's
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: deeper than that, isn't it.
• 38:20
  Speaker 6: It is?
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: So often, you know, kids can't walk up to us
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: and say, you know, I'm adjusting to being we've brother
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: or sister, or Tommy snatched off me in the sand
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: pit today, or you know, I just can't name what
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: it is. The world just sometimes is big and it's
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: it's a lot to learn.
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: To feel your feelings.
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: And so what they do is they show us through behavior,
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: and you know, it's often about the cup or the
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: fact you cut they're toasty, even though they wanted their
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: toasty cut yesterday, or the fact that you peeled a
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: banana wrong, or they broke a banana. And if I
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: can share a meltdown story that I think could help,
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: because we're all dealing with this right and I think
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: one of the hardest things to do as a parent
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: is to be with our kidids when they're not okay.
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: And for most of us, when we were not.
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: Okay as kids, we were told go to your room
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: and come back when you're together, and it worked in
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: the sense that shut us up. Didn't really teach us
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: how to regulate our emotions, and interestingly, we weren't in
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: their googling ways to regulate my emotions.
• 39:19
  Speaker 6: And so we're trying to sort of do that differently
• 39:20
  Speaker 6: with our kids.
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: But it's really hard, and we do sit there struggling about, well,
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: what's the underlying reason.
• 39:25
  Speaker 6: I don't think you need to know. All you need
• 39:28
  Speaker 6: to know is my kid's not okay. That's it.
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: So anyway, my story is that I just had my
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: fourth child. I was cooking dinner. I was about two
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: weeks postpartum, I had my baby in a baby carrier,
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: and my husband was not home. I had half the
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: neighborhood tearing around my house, and I was questioning some
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: of my decision making, you know, yep. And my two
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: year old Tommy walked off and he's like, can I
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: have a banana?
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: I'm like, yeah, sure. He goes, can you peel it?
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: I go, yeah, sure, And in the process of peeling it,
• 39:57
  Speaker 5: I did what you should never do to any two
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: year old broake that banana.
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: How dare you shame?
• 40:03
  Speaker 5: And he did not want that banana anymore because it
• 40:06
  Speaker 5: was broken.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: What I know, can kids just can they fucking cut
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: that out?
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: Aig rewind a memo, do you kids of the world?
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: So banana tastes the same whether it's broken.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Oh it doesn't.
• 40:23
  Speaker 6: So he's like, banana broken.
• 40:25
  Speaker 5: And even though I do what I do, and even
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: though I know what kids need at a logical level,
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: in that moment, I was like, I am going to
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: do anything I can to just shut this kid up.
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: So I was like, I will chop it up, put
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: it in a bowl, and give you a spoon, which
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: used to work for my kids. And he was like, yeah, manhana,
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: And I was like, okay, what about some logic.
• 40:44
  Speaker 6: So I hold up the fruit bowl. Have you ever
• 40:46
  Speaker 6: done this?
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: And I'm like, look in the bowl, I don't have
• 40:48
  Speaker 5: any more and he's like, I don't care for your logic.
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: I want a banana. And then I was I was desperate.
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: I was opening the cupboard, guy, anything you want, anything
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: you want, and he's like, banada.
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: And then I was like holding up the iPad, like
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: what about the wig?
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: I was like it.
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: And actually what I was fighting was you know, and
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: it links to the start of the story about that rage,
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: that feeling of like wanting to scream go to your route,
• 41:18
  Speaker 5: which I know is not going to help any two
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: year old, but man, I wanted to do it so badly.
• 41:24
  Speaker 6: And this is a good story in that I caught
• 41:26
  Speaker 6: it right.
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: And it was almost like this moment of like he
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: doesn't need me to fix this or so of this
• 41:33
  Speaker 5: or stop this.
• 41:33
  Speaker 6: He needs me to let him know I get it.
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: So I sat on the floor and I only said
• 41:38
  Speaker 5: three things, and all I said was what happened?
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: I said, you're banana? Broke.
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: You really didn't want it to break, and you're really
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: really sad about this. Within six seconds, his head was
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: leaning against my shoulder. Within seven seconds, I looked down
• 41:50
  Speaker 5: and he's beating his little frickin' banana. And I sat
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: there actually blown away. Despite the fact I have practiced
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: at this so much, I was blown away by a
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: how well it works, b you know how hard it
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: is to do. And see I had just had a
• 42:08
  Speaker 5: third baby, a fourth baby.
• 42:11
  Speaker 6: Again questioning decisions.
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: I had just had a fourth baby, and this kid
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: had had me go to hospital for five days. The
• 42:18
  Speaker 5: baby was not feeding very well, and all of the
• 42:20
  Speaker 5: stuff that happens, and I was cooking dinner, and you know,
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: there's so much going on, and you just think.
• 42:25
  Speaker 6: For that kid.
• 42:26
  Speaker 5: You know, Yeah, it was about the banana, but it
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: was about man. I have regulated through so much stuff
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: and there is so much changing in my world, and
• 42:35
  Speaker 5: now my banana has broken, and I just need you
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: to be with me and the banana.
• 42:39
  Speaker 6: So the biggest thing I'd say is you don't need.
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: To know what is happening here. I think you need
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: to just go. You're not okay, your banana broke. You're
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: really sad about it, and I'm just gonna sit with
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: you without attempting to fix it.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I automatically go into that fixing mode. And
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: that's one of the many things I'm struggling with the moment.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: But for me, I find that I'm not regulating myself
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: enough when they're not regulating, And I'm quickly learning that
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: how are they supposed to learn if I'm not teaching
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: the regulation correctly or even validating their feelings sometimes? And
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I'm catching myself a lot dismissing it and just knee
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: jerk reacting to it instead of going hang on a sec. Okay,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: this is a small, very small child who is still
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: trying to learn basic emotions. And I'm finding that I've
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: struggled a lot with my life with unrelenting standards, and
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to project that onto my children, and when
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: the meltdown happens, instead of sitting with them, like you say,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: which is what I should be doing, I'm expecting more
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: of them.
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: Do you know it's so hard to do something that
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: was not modeled for you. If we were sent to
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: our room when we melted down, and most of us were,
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: or even if not even with the most beautiful, the
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: most beautiful, loving upbringing. But I was told to turn
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: that frown upside down or the wind would change, and
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: I get stuff like that. Those messages taught you unequivocally,
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: we don't do that in this relationship. And now here
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: you are back in the kitchen with this small person
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: that is bringing up the stuff that you were taught,
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: not at a cognitive.
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: Level, but at a physical level.
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: We don't do that so much as you know cognitively,
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: I should hold space and regulate and model.
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: Your body is going.
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: Make it stop, exactly right, And so can I cut
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: all the advice out that you've ever had about I
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: should and I'm asked and I need to name and
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: all the stuff. And I want to just tell you
• 44:42
  Speaker 5: one thing you could do. Put your hand on your
• 44:45
  Speaker 5: heart and say, this shit is really hard. I'm doing
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: the best I can. That is self compassion. And if
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: we could give ourselves that, we're gonna parent. So I
• 44:56
  Speaker 5: don't care what happens next. You're going to parents so
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: much better. And I want to eat why because what's
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: happening for you in that moment is your whole system
• 45:03
  Speaker 5: is going.
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: This isn't safe. I need to stop it, I need
• 45:05
  Speaker 6: to fix it.
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: And you might think that you might be harder on
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: yourself and say do better tomorrow and don't yell at
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: your kids and all that stuff we do to ourselves
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: as parents.
• 45:13
  Speaker 6: But if you could stop and go, I'm doing the
• 45:15
  Speaker 6: best that I can.
• 45:16
  Speaker 5: That self compassion, that self kindness, it lowers your quartersol,
• 45:20
  Speaker 5: because what is happening in you is literally the same
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: as what's happening in your kid.
• 45:24
  Speaker 6: It's a stress response. We step in and offer.
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: Ourselves the compassion that maybe we might have liked as
• 45:30
  Speaker 5: a two year old or a three year old, and
• 45:32
  Speaker 5: we say you're.
• 45:33
  Speaker 6: Doing your best.
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: You will instantly start breathing a little bit better. You
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: will instantly be more present and less in fight, flight
• 45:39
  Speaker 5: or freeze, and then.
• 45:41
  Speaker 6: Whatever you do for your child is okay. You'll be
• 45:44
  Speaker 6: a bit better.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: I think I definitely needed to hear that. It's not
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: very often that it's not very often that I am
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: speechless and matt wi, but I don't have any I
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: don't have any response because it's kind of what I
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: needed to hear.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: It's such a important message.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, thank you for.
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: That, thank you for having me wrap up.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: When are you going to fucking cry, like when you're
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: gonna have sorry. Almost it almost, it's not. It's such
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: a fucking hard job.
• 46:15
  Speaker 6: Really, such a hard job.
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: But we are the first generation of parents, particularly dads,
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: particularly dads, because this was not modeled by your dads particularly.
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: You know, your moms might have met some of your
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: emotional needs, but your dads did not have skills on
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: the whole. And so you're doing something that was so unmodeled.
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: You have no script for this, and you can't do
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: it at a cognitive level alone. But I think if
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: you can offer yourself some kindness and go you're trying
• 46:44
  Speaker 5: really hard, instantly you're that little bit better placed. And
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: then there's the kid in front of you, and whatever
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: you do will be right for them. Yeah.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: I could ask so many questions, but I won't because
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: I know we're running out of time. I do have
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: one really quick quack, two really quick questions. One is
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: when it comes to discipline. As a quick example, I
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: was an idiot. I bought some slime.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: Lola was playing don't ever buy slime, thank you.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: You went against that gold And I said to Lola,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: and I hate to like pinpoint Lola in all my scenarios,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: but I said, you've got to keep it on the table.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: It goes on the floor in the carpet, then I'm
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: going to take it away from you. It ended up
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: on the carpet. I then warned her, happened again. I
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: took it away from her, And then her reaction at
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: the moment to a lot of scenarios where I discipline
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: and I'm the bad cop, is I hate you. And
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: nothing I really say at the moment will stop her
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: from saying that. I try and say, I'm not gonna
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: let you say that word. It's not a nice word.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: It's very minut it hurts my feelings. She'll continue saying it,
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: and then I'm thinking to myself, do I need to
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: send it to a room or give a time out?
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: What should my reaction be when she's saying relentlessly I
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: hate you every time I try and discipline it.
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: First of all, I would give yourself a big congratulations,
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: because when our kids learn to say harsh words to us,
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: their regulation is coming online.
• 47:57
  Speaker 6: It's actually a positive sign. So initial when kids are distressed,
• 48:01
  Speaker 6: they show us.
• 48:02
  Speaker 5: Their emotions physically, So they hit and they spit and
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: they kick and they throw toys, and then they start
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: to get older and they learn to say harsh words
• 48:10
  Speaker 5: and they say things like I hate you, You're the
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: worst parent ever. I mean, kids say I've heard it all.
• 48:15
  Speaker 5: They will say I want you to die. I mean,
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: they can look at you and threaten your life, and
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: you think, should I let.
• 48:21
  Speaker 6: The police know? So really really harsh.
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: The biggest hack I have for you in that moment
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: to help you is what I do, and it is
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: this imagine that rather than your child saying that they
• 48:33
  Speaker 5: hate you, what they're saying is I hate this feeling.
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: It is so hard to have gotten something wrong. I'm
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: a good kid and I don't want to have much
• 48:41
  Speaker 5: of this up and I hate that the slim's been
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: taken away and this is hard and I'm disregulated and
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: I hate this feeling. And they say I hate you
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: because they're learning how to express themselves and it's clunky
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: as they learn. And actually, if we can sort of
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: view it like that, now we can respond with you
• 48:57
  Speaker 5: hate this feeling, or I know it's hard when I
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: say no or or nothing, just like you know, the
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: biggest thing you can say to your kid is, yeah,
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: this is you're not okay, and I don't think you
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: actually need to deal with those words at all. I
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: have a call rule in my house with bound I
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: have four care rules. No hitting or hurting, no damage
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: to our environment or our property, and no name calling.
• 49:20
  Speaker 5: And when someone says stop or they're crying, we stop
• 49:23
  Speaker 5: when we check on them. And other than that, I
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: wouldn't be stepping in. So if my kid says I
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: hate you, I'm kind of going I can see you
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: having a hard time. If my kid calls me a bitch,
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: I'm going to say, oh, that's crossing a family line.
• 49:37
  Speaker 6: I'm not going to let you do that. So we're
• 49:38
  Speaker 6: going to go and sit in your room and we're.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: Going to have a time in it. He said that,
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: which one it was?
• 49:45
  Speaker 6: None of None of them have to actually said that word.
• 49:48
  Speaker 6: I said it to my dad once. No, actually I
• 49:56
  Speaker 6: called my dad. Did I call my dad? I think
• 49:57
  Speaker 6: I said he was a dickhead or something other than that.
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: I was working with a mum the other day and
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: she was introducing her older child to the baby. The
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: baby was having its first breastfeed and she said, this is.
• 50:13
  Speaker 6: That your baby brother is feeding off mummy.
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: You know, this is how he eats and this two
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: yr old lookter in the eye with this wicked look
• 50:19
  Speaker 5: and went, well, I want to eat the baby. She's like, Jen,
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: do I need to talk to him about that? And
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: I'm like, no, he's just expressing this.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Is tricky, like because I'm upholding my kids who are
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: four and six, to the same communication standards as an adult.
• 50:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Jim mentioned it earlier, just quickly on that when she
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: was saying that they start to push back on who
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: where they trust her, and then you said that she's
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: sort of building to the point where she's regulating, not physically,
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: but it'iculate it so to me, it's like they're hurt
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: for words, but maybe she just trusts you that she
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: can say that to you.
• 50:59
  Speaker 6: Right undred percent, you know.
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: And this is what I'm like holding in my heart
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: as my sixteen year old rolls the eyes every time
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: I breathe, and I'm like, love.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Your cringe, mom, like that.
• 51:12
  Speaker 5: Because believe me, they push back even harder in those
• 51:14
  Speaker 5: But you know, kids will push against that beautiful safe
• 51:18
  Speaker 5: that's the that's the wall of love that they can
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: push against, you know, And that's what we want. We
• 51:22
  Speaker 5: want our kids to hopefully learn to go out into
• 51:25
  Speaker 5: the world and kind of follow the rules eventually, kind of.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: What Laura to tell me that she hates me, so
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: I can handle the situation a lot better.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: When she gets home, she can go you that is
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: that I love you.
• 51:40
  Speaker 5: She's saying thank you, Dad, and you know, I look,
• 51:43
  Speaker 5: I don't think in the moment, our kids, especially a
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: four year old, she's never here. She's hearing about two
• 51:47
  Speaker 5: and tent of your words. If that's you're wasting your
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: time witho oh, that hurts my feelings. But also I
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: think our job is to be you know, bigger and
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: stronger and wiser and kind, and our kids are going
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: to say and do a billion terrible things and make
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: a lot of mistakes, and our job is to go, hey,
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: and I love you no matter what. I can see
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: you having a hard time. And then as they get
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: old and maybe outside the moment, you go, I'm thinking
• 52:09
  Speaker 5: about that thing you said earlier, and that did hurt
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: my feelings.
• 52:13
  Speaker 6: Maybe we could work on some.
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: Other ways we can express ourselves in the moment, but
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't be doing that afore.
• 52:19
  Speaker 6: She's a cool kid man.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: She's Jenna.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: I'm very intrigued to know what your answer is to
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: this question, we ask all, I guess the final question,
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: when your boys are all grown up and they're no
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: longer living at home, what is the one thing you
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: would want to remember about the house they grew up in.
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: God, the four rules, Matthew, that's so tough.
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: Sorry, That they were lovable and worthy of love no
• 52:47
  Speaker 5: matter what in the good in the bad when they
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: absolutely muck it up and they steal and they lie
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: and they make all the mistakes that kids will make
• 52:55
  Speaker 5: over the time that they were lovable.
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: You didn't disappoint Jen. Thank you so much.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: It is honestly such a pleasure to hear you talk
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: about parenting in a way that is so non judgmental
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: but so helpful.
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: Thank you.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with matt So thank you so much
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: for spending some time with us.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: And we are going to get you back.
• 53:18
  Speaker 6: I'll be there.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: We want to ask you about going back to school,
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: not to like put it back.
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: On Lola again starting Scott. I didn't help.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Good thing.
• 53:29
  Speaker 6: It's going to be real.
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: I can't wait for the next episode. So thank you
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: so much. Thank you guys, I told you she was oracle.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look, there's not a lot of people that make
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: me speechless, And in that I was said, speechless.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I've been using with Lola? And
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: it's worked? And I know that you can't.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Your tricks and tips of parenting can only use a
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: couple of times before you know they catch.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: On that's it. But one with Lola it works, dude.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: I remember that that night after recording this episode, I
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: I said to Lola, because she hates brushing your teeth
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: in the bath, and I put the toothpaste on the
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: toothbrush and I gave it to Lola and I said,
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: I'm going to turn around and I bet you, I
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: bet you, Lola is not going to brush your teeth.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: And I was like, is this going to work? Surely
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: not turned around and Lola was.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: Like, idiot, so that's brushing her teeth.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: And I was like, you are so fucking dumb. I
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: used it two nights in a row and I'm like,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: I'm going to rest this now.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to give it a little break. I
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: use the I wonder. Ah, so my kids struggle with sleep, well,
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: they don't struggle with being asleep, they struggled with getting
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: to sleep. Which is it just grinds my gears because
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: I want to rest too, And I said to each
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: of them, I wonder what you're going to dream about
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: when you fall asleep? Worked a tree. By the time
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: I left the room, they were asleep pretty much.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Jen, Thank you, And if you enjoyed this episode,
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: please you know the drill to laugh on cutline, but
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say it anyway, leave a review, subscribe,
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: send it to another parent if you think they're battling
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: and need some help this episode like.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: Gold Dust, absolutely, or you can join us on socials,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Two Doting Dad's Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, where else. That's it.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: I think that's it, or in real life.
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: We'll see you guys next time.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: We pay our respects to their elders past and present
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestraight Islander
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: people's today. This episode was recorded on Gadagle Land