Latest / Yes And Land / 101 Dalmatians and Building Trust in Business | Erin Madsen

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101 Dalmatians and Building Trust in Business | Erin Madsen · Yes And Land

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  i took home this black lava rock from the island
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  and i packed it in my suitcase didn't even think
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  about it went home and then literally ryan my
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  life blew up and the divorce all went through
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  within maybe six weeks so take me down the path
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  of like where you see the lessons that we can
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  learn from cruella deville in 101 dalmatians
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  well first off she's a businesswoman ryan she
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  totally is and she's Are we allowed to say badass?
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  She is a badass businesswoman. I mean, she knows
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  what she wants. She communicates her needs. We
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  all have a little, I'm admitting it. I have a
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  little Cruella in me. I'm going to tell you why
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  too. There's just no rule book. The grief is
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  love with nowhere to go. And there's just no
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  way through it other than through it. And there's
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  no timeline and it's not linear. It's going to
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  be this big, crazy, beautiful life. And I'm okay.
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  And I'm here for it. Like that's just my life.
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  Welcome to Yes and Land, where we say yes to
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  the reality of yesterday and today, and we say
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  and to the possibility, growth, and imagination
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  of tomorrow. Welcome, everybody, to our next
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  episode of Yes and Len. Very excited today because
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  we're going to have a conversation with one of
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  my very, very good friends, Aaron Madsen, who
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  is just a lovely person and has a killer, killer
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  podcast of her own. And it's called the Lay Low
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  Podcast, right? To grow, you have to lay low.
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  Is that that's it? Yes. And it's a must listen.
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  Honestly, she's very vulnerable and honest in
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  the podcast. And while I personally enjoyed listening
• 1:45
  to the episodes, they're there. and and really
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  gotten deep in a lot of things too and you know
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  we might get deep on some of those things today
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  right um aaron's uh as many of us have been she's
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  been through some things in her life and uh been
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  through some vulnerable things that have helped
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  her to learn who she is and to grow so very excited
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  for us to dive into some of that today and get
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  a little vulnerable but then also at the end
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  maybe have a little bit of fun so welcome to
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  the podcast aaron thank you ryan i'm happy to
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  be here well first off what's your story of how
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  we met Well, so for me, it was through a couple
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  of people that we know really well. A good friend
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  of mine, Sabrina, who is a member of the South
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  by Chamber Commerce, we had been, along with
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  Dave Peabody, had been in this business accelerator
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  class together when I very first opened my firm.
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  And like when I needed all the help I could get,
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  and I was there with other business owners who
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  were either in a period of initiation in their
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  company or needing to kind of break through and
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  grow. And so I started to get to know Sabrina
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  and David a little bit. And then it had been
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  a little while, actually, since I had... really
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  talked with them much. And I was just kind of
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  having this pull back to like wanting to connect
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  with more business owners and just having more
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  people that I could like relate to. And I can't
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  remember who came up with this idea, but they're
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  like, Hey, we should do our own mastermind. And
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  then both of them were like, Hey, we know this
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  person would be perfect for this. Her name is
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  Aaron. I'm like all in. let's do it. And so we
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  decided to get together and meet and we met in
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  my office and like hit it off. I like love talking
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  with, with you and the two of them. And it was
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  super fun for me and really rewarding for me
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  to get to like. hear the wisdom from you guys
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  as I'm like soaking in, trying to like get better
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  and learn from you guys. And it was like, it
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  was really fun that first day. I had a great
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  time when we came here and visited. So that's
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  kind of my, that's my version of it. Let's hear
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  yours. Mine's probably more personal because
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  hello, that is me. I remember like so much of
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  that day, but yeah, Sabrina and I share an office.
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  So she and I had connected and she's a doll and
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  she had come to me and said, Hey, I have these
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  two guys that we're going to start a mastermind
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  group. Do you want to be our fourth member? And
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  I remember at that time how I did not feel worthy,
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  first of all, to be in a mastermind group. And
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  if some of our listeners don't know, a mastermind
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  group is really where business owners would come
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  together to tackle any sort of issues or brainstorm
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  or really dig into the parts of your business
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  that you have questions or don't understand.
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  Because I think a lot of people out there think
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  a business owner just has everything figured
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  out where you literally just learn as you go.
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  That's exactly right. And it's a lonely road
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  being on your own running a business. And so
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  I think for me, like having this opportunity
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  to come in with three other people who own their
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  own businesses. Ryan is a lawyer. Sabrina runs
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  a mortgage company. And Dave does marketing and
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  signs like actual like physical signs. And so
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  we have such different businesses. But I can't
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  tell you how much I have learned from you guys.
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  as a group and also one -on -one and a lot of
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  times when i have a question one of you are the
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  first people that i reach out to so but i do
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  remember the very first time i met you our first
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  meeting do you remember well i mean other than
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  like being here at the office thank you we we
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  love it we love we think they did such a great
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  job when they did our tenant improvements when
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  we first moved in but tell me what you remember
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  from that experience what am i missing i remember
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  being in my car before and being like Erin, who
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  are you to even walk into this meeting? You have
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  a baby business and you don't know what you're
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  doing most of the days. And I sat in the car
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  and I really was really nervous to come in. I
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  remember walking in. Ryan has a gorgeous office
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  and it smelled so good. And I remember going
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  back to my office that next day and getting.
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  some sort of scent because I was like, what a
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  difference it makes walking into this office.
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  And so I took that away immediately. But I remember
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  all being in the room and we took turns going
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  around and explaining about our business. And
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  we had to answer the question, what is the biggest
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  pain point of your business? And this was at
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  a time where I was engaged. I was working with
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  my fiance and I had never felt so alone in a
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  business or a job or anything. And I remember
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  being in that room and when it was my turn, I
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  didn't even think about it. I didn't even think
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  about it, Ryan. I just like blurted out. I didn't
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  even know you guys never had met you. And when
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  it was, what is the. biggest pain point of your
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  business, I said, I work with my fiance and he
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  does not respect me. And I like, that was the
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  words. Cause I went, I won't ever forget. And
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  that's a vulnerable thing to say to people you
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  don't know for sure. And it just like came out.
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  And I remember all of you just being like, okay,
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  let's talk this out. Like tell us the situation.
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  And I went into it and you had great advice for
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  me right away. Do you remember your advice for
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  me? the first thing you said i don't remember
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  the first thing but i think ultimately part of
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  it was like that might not be the best option
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  to work with your fiance yeah you said if you
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  want to marry him you need to fire him yeah and
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  the other guy said too he had experience working
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  with his wife and he's like at this point it
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  is one or the other if you want to work together
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  you shouldn't get married and if you want to
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  get married you shouldn't work together and that
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  was a huge That was maybe the first time I had
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  said those words out loud to anybody. And saying
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  it to you guys, you know, sometimes when you
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  say something out loud, it makes it really real.
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  Absolutely. And we hold it for a long time because
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  sometimes we're afraid that when we do say it,
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  it will become real. But I think that's why also
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  I love my podcast because I just get it all out.
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  And the more you talk, the more comes out. And
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  when I said that to you guys that day. I started
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  more conversations with other people. I had an
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  honest conversation with my parents telling them,
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  this is actually what's happening. My therapist,
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  I went to her and I said, this is actually what's
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  happening. But you guys were the first people
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  and it was such a safe place for me. And it really
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  changed the road I was on because that ended
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  up being a relationship that ended. And he did
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  get fired and you helped me as my lawyer. Thank
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  you very much. You got it. And I've been able
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  to really rebuild and have a fresh start. And
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  it's been the best decision that I could have
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  made. And I just want to thank you for being
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  there and having such good advice for me and
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  just really saying, I got you. We're going to
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  do this. And what a blessing for us that you
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  were willing to, as Brene Brown says, like rumble
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  with vulnerability because you did. You went
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  into that. And even though you may have been
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  nervous, you didn't show it. And you were willing
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  to be vulnerable in a place where, thankful we
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  had the blessing of being able to be there with
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  you during that time, right? Because as you showed
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  strength in doing that, you strengthened us.
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  Isn't that what's interesting too when we're
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  vulnerable? Because it did, right? It helped
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  us see like, okay, we all can struggle with things.
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  But you know what? This group has got our backs.
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  right we can go to this group with with issues
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  that we're facing because man if aaron's willing
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  to be vulnerable like maybe i can too right maybe
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  i can't do maybe this is a safe place for us
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  to be and it was really a rewarding experience
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  for me to be able to meet the times that we did
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  because that's really what it came i mean i talked
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  with you guys about things that Sometimes you
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  can't talk about with your employees, right?
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  When you're trying to lead an organization, you
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  can't wrap your employees into all the sometimes
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  difficult things behind the scenes. If something
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  is struggling or something's not going well,
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  you need them to focus on the things they do
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  and you have to carry the weight as the owner.
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  But if you can talk to other people about the
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  things that you're struggling with, whether or
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  not it's personnel decisions you have to make
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  or people that you feel like you need to fire,
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  but you've got to talk to somebody about it that's
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  not the other employees. That became the real
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  space for me that many times that's what I talk
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  to you guys about. So I bring to you like, okay,
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  guys, here's what I'm struggling with. Here's
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  what this employee is doing. Here's what's happening
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  here. How do I navigate this? And it gave me
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  that space. And so your initial vulnerability
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  opened up so we could then do that same thing,
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  which was really beautiful. But then you also
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  realize how quickly that every business has a
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  pain point. Every business owner is feeling the
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  same way you are. There's just a level of comfort
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  in that, that you don't feel like you're alone.
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  And I know I love our little group. Definitely
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  great. So, so here's a couple of things I want
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  to know about you. Right. And I think I know
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  to some degree, but I'd love for our listeners
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  to hear a little bit about it. Like how, how
• 10:46
  did it come about that you started this company
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  that you have? Because you had a history, I think
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  doing some, it might even have been some, some
• 10:55
  kind of sales. Was it multi -level marketing
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  sales or something? Yeah. And you were like.
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  killer salesperson, like president's club all
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  the time kind of gal. It was a skincare company.
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  Yeah. So I actually have a marketing degree from
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  BYU. I was a BYU Cougar. I was, um, I graduated
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  married and pregnant. So I was a success story
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  and MRS degree as they call it there. But I got
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  my marketing degree and I really just dove in
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  from right out of college. And I love marketing
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  and I love sales. They're so hand in hand. But
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  I was working in the skincare industry for an
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  MLM and that experience I learned a lot. I'm
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  sure. Because some of those same systems and
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  processes that I use to run hundreds and hundreds
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  of women selling skincare, I use the same thing
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  for sales reps selling construction projects
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  and solar and batteries and all kinds of things.
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  So it's been a good lesson to show me that business
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  is business, sales is sales. It doesn't have
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  to be as scary as you sometimes think that it
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  is. But I was working in the skincare industry
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  and I was dating this guy who was selling solar
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  and he just was really unorganized. And I was
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  like, hey, I can help. Maybe he didn't like that.
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  But I went from being his assistant to being
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  his boss. Shoot your shot, girl. I love it. Maybe
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  that's why he's not here anymore. Maybe he couldn't
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  hang. But yeah, that's really how it started
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  was the organization of construction is so different
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  than the sales process. Most salespeople struggle
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  with operations. And so I came in and really
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  built out an energy brokerage that we do a handful
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  of home upgrades that make your home more energy
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  efficient. And I run all of the advertising marketing
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  for that. And then we sell each of the projects.
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  I subcontract everything out and we just give
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  people a really. good professional experience
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  and it's used local options and it's just gone
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  really well. But yeah, it wasn't anything I was
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  really passionate about. I was, I'm passionate
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  about business and growth. This was just an easy
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  thing for me to grow. Sure. What was it about
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  sales that attracted you to sales? Like what
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  component of sales is it that you really like?
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  I love that the harder I worked, the more money
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  I made. Because if you work for a company and
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  you have a salary and you have your nine to five,
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  you can work really hard and get paid the exact
• 13:36
  same versus working not so hard. Right. And I
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  just, I'm a hard worker. I come from a really
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  strong line of women who are bosses, both of
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  my grandmother's own businesses and just went
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  in it where. If I was going to work hard, I wanted
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  to make sure I was rewarded. And I just always
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  loved the flexibility of doing my own thing.
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  Being able to travel is important to me. And
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  marketing and sales was an avenue I could do
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  remotely pretty easily. And still, I still feel
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  like I have more flexibility than a lot of people.
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  Okay. So a couple more questions. I'm going to
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  dig a little deeper here. Because I think you're
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  right. It's a good answer when it comes to your
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  ability to control what you can make because
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  you work harder. What is it about marketing that
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  you like? What attracts you to being a marketing
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  major? Why that over a million other things you
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  can do where you work hard? I think the creativity
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  part of it, which we were talking, because I
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  think my podcast also really feeds that creative
• 14:33
  part of me. That's why I started Laylow, because
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  I was running a business and I was doing a lot
• 14:40
  of just like grinding and I wasn't feeding my
• 14:42
  soul. I just really felt like I needed to have
• 14:47
  a voice. I started writing a book and it went
• 14:50
  really well until I got to my divorce. And then
• 14:53
  I had a hard time navigating. How do I tell my
• 14:56
  story without it disrupting everybody around
• 14:59
  me's lives? Especially my ex -husband, who I
• 15:02
  care about that relationship and with his wife
• 15:05
  as well. So it was tricky with the book. So I
• 15:07
  put a pause to the book, switched to the podcast.
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  But the creativity of the podcast was what was
• 15:13
  missing in my sales job. And marketing is so
• 15:16
  creative for me. But as I have grown the sales
• 15:21
  side of the business and some of that marketing
• 15:24
  I've had to contract out, I used to do it in
• 15:26
  -house forever and ever. It's one of those things
• 15:28
  you do it yourself until you literally can't
• 15:30
  do it anymore. And once I pass that on and...
• 15:34
  outsource some of my marketing is when I was
• 15:36
  needing to feed my creative soul. So I think
• 15:39
  that just the creativity and realizing what makes
• 15:43
  a person tick, what gets their attention, how
• 15:47
  to solve a problem. That's all marketing is,
• 15:50
  is what's the problem? How do you solve it? Yeah,
• 15:52
  I love that. Hey, before we keep going, I wanted
• 15:57
  to take a second and shout out another show I've
• 15:59
  been really into lately. It's called The Wisdom
• 16:02
  of Walt. Didn't expect to get hooked the way
• 16:05
  that I did, but here we are. If you like what
• 16:07
  we do here, I think you'll really vibe with that
• 16:10
  one too. So go check it out. And when it comes
• 16:13
  to the sales component, beyond just the ability
• 16:16
  to control what you make by working harder, what
• 16:19
  is it about sales that attracts you? When you're
• 16:22
  thinking about selling something, what part of
• 16:24
  that is rewarding to you in that process? Probably
• 16:28
  solving the problem. For the customer, right?
• 16:31
  Yes, for the customer. Because if somebody has
• 16:34
  their parents move into their house and then
• 16:37
  their grandkids move into the house and then
• 16:39
  they have this huge house of multi -generations,
• 16:41
  which is becoming very normal in our economy,
• 16:44
  then they have this humongous power bill because
• 16:47
  they've got everybody using the showers at different
• 16:50
  times and the kids aren't leaving the lights.
• 16:52
  Kids aren't turning the lights off. So they have
• 16:55
  a problem and they're looking for a solution.
• 16:57
  So that's when I come in and do like an energy
• 16:59
  audit and see different ways that we can improve
• 17:03
  the home and bring down those bills. So to me,
• 17:07
  that part is just problem and giving a solution
• 17:10
  and taking care of people also and doing things
• 17:13
  the right way. It's interesting because my son
• 17:15
  right now, he served a Mormon mission and got
• 17:18
  really good at knocking doors. For sure. So he
• 17:21
  got home. He lives in Utah County. And I was
• 17:23
  like, come sell for me. Hello, you just were
• 17:26
  selling for two years. Come sell for me. And
• 17:28
  he's so turned off by salespeople. And he's like,
• 17:31
  they're pushy and they just care about money.
• 17:35
  And I was like, it really made me stop and think.
• 17:38
  And when he first told me all that, I didn't
• 17:40
  even respond because I was like, yeah, I could
• 17:45
  see that side. But the longer I sat with it,
• 17:48
  I talked to him later and I said, I get that.
• 17:50
  But also that's when sales needs to have good
• 17:54
  people that are in sales. You can't just have
• 17:56
  all this pushy people. And I don't consider myself
• 17:59
  pushy at all, but I just consider myself organized
• 18:02
  and I'm good at following up. And sometimes maybe
• 18:04
  somebody would think that's pushy. But to me,
• 18:06
  it's just like you had a problem. I brought you
• 18:08
  a solution. How can I take care of you? And to
• 18:12
  me, that's a positive way of selling and taking
• 18:15
  care of a client instead of doing something that's
• 18:17
  like unethical or dishonest or anything. There's
• 18:20
  no room for that in my company. Now, I mean,
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  correct me if I'm wrong. One of my guesses would
• 18:28
  be that. part of it for you might be the value
• 18:32
  of the relationship that you're building, because
• 18:34
  that's what I personally experienced with you,
• 18:36
  right? That you're very good at building a relationship.
• 18:40
  You're very good at building trust there. And
• 18:44
  when you want to have a salesperson who is better
• 18:47
  beyond the surface and doing it for the right
• 18:49
  reasons, part of that is relationship -based.
• 18:50
  Part of it is being able to trust that individual.
• 18:53
  Is that a component of it for you? You say that,
• 18:56
  and I don't even think about that, but that's
• 18:58
  the whole basis of it. Because when I think of
• 19:00
  my clients, I'm problem -solving because I want
• 19:03
  to take care of them because I don't want them
• 19:06
  to. keep going on with a problem. I want to come
• 19:09
  in with some real logistical results that are
• 19:12
  going to take care of it. And the people are
• 19:16
  the fun part of sales, really, because you see
• 19:19
  all walks of life. And especially when you go
• 19:21
  into the home, which I go in and, you know, we'll
• 19:24
  check out the electrical and the roof and everything.
• 19:26
  So I'm in people's homes. It's so fun to see
• 19:30
  people in their element. When you drive by like
• 19:35
  house to house in your neighborhood, you literally
• 19:37
  have no idea what's behind every door. But I
• 19:40
  do because I'm going into I'm going into the
• 19:43
  homes and seeing it. And it's just it's cool
• 19:46
  to see people in their home in that way. Yeah.
• 19:49
  Yeah. I love that. I think it's such an interesting
• 19:51
  way to think about sales because I think. We
• 19:55
  do need more people who are doing it for the
• 19:57
  right reasons, who are doing it motivated to
• 19:59
  truly help somebody. You know, when I do a divorce
• 20:02
  consultation, I'm probably not the best salesperson
• 20:05
  because I try to bring that to the consultation,
• 20:09
  which is I want to care about this person. I
• 20:10
  want to care about what the future of this situation
• 20:12
  is going to look like. And there's times where
• 20:14
  the conversation is, hey, you know, it sounds
• 20:16
  like you're actually not ready to do this divorce.
• 20:19
  It sounds like you're so early on this. I'm happy
• 20:21
  to. give you information so you have knowledge.
• 20:24
  And then, you know, you come back if things don't
• 20:26
  work out. But honestly, I hope it does work out,
• 20:28
  right? If you can have this information, knowing
• 20:30
  this, now you can go work on some things and
• 20:32
  fix your relationship. Fantastic. And so in that
• 20:34
  sense, like I'm not the salesman that's going
• 20:37
  to close every deal, but I much prefer that our
• 20:40
  people here take that approach because we want
• 20:42
  to care about the clients that we have. Absolutely.
• 20:45
  Right, right. And I tell people when I sit down
• 20:47
  with them, I'm like, if I can't help you, I'm
• 20:49
  going to tell you, you know, but. I have a lot
• 20:51
  of solutions and I have a lot of options and
• 20:53
  let me just see what we can do. Yeah. So, okay.
• 20:57
  I'm going to, I'm going to wrap this into, we're
• 20:58
  going to start wrapping this into the Disney
• 21:01
  movie you selected, which I was so happy that
• 21:04
  you did because we haven't done it yet, which
• 21:06
  is 101 Dalmatians. And, and not just that though,
• 21:10
  I really, I'm very intrigued to see where we
• 21:12
  go with this because when I first started thinking
• 21:14
  about this and I told you it's in the pre -show.
• 21:16
  i was thinking like okay we're going to talk
• 21:18
  about this with you know the dalmatians themselves
• 21:21
  pongo and perdita and the care they have for
• 21:24
  uh these you know 99 dalmatians that are there
• 21:27
  and their relationships there but then what i
• 21:30
  got from you before was really more this angle
• 21:32
  of looking at cruella and i thought okay this
• 21:35
  is interesting this is really interesting here
• 21:37
  so so take me down the path of like where where
• 21:41
  you see the lessons that we can learn from Cruella
• 21:45
  DeVille in 101 Dalmatians? Well, first off, she's
• 21:50
  a businesswoman, Ryan. She totally is. A hundred
• 21:52
  percent she is. And she's, are we allowed to
• 21:55
  say badass? Because she is a badass businesswoman.
• 21:58
  I mean, she knows what she wants. She communicates
• 22:01
  her needs and she doesn't really care how it
• 22:06
  happens. She just knows that that's her responsibility
• 22:08
  to say what she wants and let the results come
• 22:13
  to her. But as a business woman, she is pretty
• 22:16
  fascinating, right? She is very fascinating.
• 22:19
  Whenever you have a really compelling story,
• 22:22
  part of that is if there's more than one level
• 22:28
  of intrigue for a villain. If you have a really
• 22:30
  one -dimensional villain, it's just not as compelling
• 22:32
  of a story. And I had never really thought of
• 22:35
  Cruella de Vil as a multi -dimensional villain,
• 22:38
  but really... as you've pointed out already she
• 22:40
  really is there's actually some good things that
• 22:43
  are there right well everybody has we like to
• 22:47
  think that we are all good right but we all have
• 22:50
  a little bad it's like a ted lasso quote i want
• 22:52
  to say like i love ted lasso but so good um we
• 22:55
  all have a little i don't know i'm admitting
• 22:58
  it i have a little cruella in me i'm gonna tell
• 23:00
  you why too but think about how she like walks
• 23:04
  into the room like she literally owns the place
• 23:07
  Dressed top to bottom, looking sharp, exactly
• 23:10
  how she walked out that door, looking exactly
• 23:12
  how she wanted to look. But she has a level of
• 23:17
  confidence, even though it doesn't always come
• 23:21
  across as something positive. But she's a confident
• 23:24
  lady, right? And so when you look at it that
• 23:28
  way, though, what are the things that if we're
• 23:31
  saying she's got some good traits, what are the
• 23:33
  bad traits? What are the things that you're identifying
• 23:36
  that like, okay. Like, yes, she has some good
• 23:38
  things. Here's the problem, though. Here's the
• 23:40
  problem with the way that it plays out with what
• 23:42
  she's doing. The problem is she hates dogs. Like,
• 23:46
  that is the big thing that I am not like her
• 23:48
  because I like dogs more than people. There's
• 23:52
  no way I would ever harm any dog. But I do love
• 23:55
  fur. Is that bad? So I connect with her because
• 23:57
  I love fur. And when I walked in Ryan's office,
• 24:01
  he was like, I can't believe you don't have a
• 24:02
  fur on. And I said, if I would have known how
• 24:04
  cold it is in your office, Ryan, I would have
• 24:06
  worn my fur in August in the middle of a 100
• 24:08
  -degree day. It's a little chill in here. It's
• 24:10
  probably 65 degrees in here. It's a little cold.
• 24:12
  But I do love fur, but I would never harm a dog.
• 24:15
  But the fur thing comes from my grandma. Like,
• 24:18
  I wear my grandma's fur. To me, like, I mean,
• 24:22
  an old vintage fur is great because you don't
• 24:24
  have to feel bad about where it came from because
• 24:26
  it's already been dealt with and now you can
• 24:29
  just enjoy it. But I actually do want like a
• 24:32
  bobcat to the ground fur that is spotted like
• 24:37
  Cruella. And that has been something I wanted
• 24:39
  before we even talked about this. So I really
• 24:42
  do connect with her. Yeah. Don't judge me. Only
• 24:44
  the good parts. The good parts. Right. I think
• 24:46
  what you bring up is a really great point, which
• 24:48
  is. Look, it's what we call like the economy
• 24:51
  of man, right? Like we are dual beings. We do
• 24:56
  have good things and bad things that exist within
• 24:59
  all of us. And part of it is identifying what
• 25:02
  those things are and trying to bring out the
• 25:03
  best. For me, part of what we're seeing here
• 25:06
  is in what's the motivation, right? Like, is
• 25:09
  it good to be self -confident? Yes. Is it good
• 25:12
  to, if you are a business owner, to be able to
• 25:14
  command presence, right? When you walk into a
• 25:16
  room, absolutely. to me the key distinguishing
• 25:19
  factor at least one of them is what is the motivation
• 25:22
  is she doing something to serve herself or to
• 25:25
  serve others writing what her business is and
• 25:28
  and very clearly the way that she's implementing
• 25:30
  if you want to kill all these dogs right like
• 25:32
  right she's not somebody else right now serving
• 25:34
  somebody else right she's she's serving herself
• 25:36
  it's very much like inward looking and so if
• 25:39
  you were her if you were her confidant she was
• 25:44
  in a mastermind with you And she's coming to
• 25:46
  you. What advice would you give to Cruella to
• 25:49
  help shift what she's doing and use her skills
• 25:52
  for good rather than for evil? I would say, look
• 25:58
  at how you treat people because no business owner
• 26:02
  is going to get anywhere without treating everybody
• 26:05
  really well. And especially the people working
• 26:09
  for you. I would also say. To keep the, she has
• 26:16
  such a like intense vibe in the negative way.
• 26:19
  And I would want her to shift that intense vibe
• 26:22
  to just be a little more on the positive side.
• 26:25
  Maybe her tone, take down her tone a little bit,
• 26:27
  smile a little more. I am not like her in that
• 26:31
  way. I really care a lot about positive, happy
• 26:33
  vibes and just positivity. That is. something
• 26:37
  that I do not connect with Cruella about. Part
• 26:40
  of what the podcast is just helping people grow
• 26:42
  and learn and take the lessons of the really
• 26:45
  hard days and find the lessons and the good and
• 26:48
  move forward. And with Cruella, she just is very
• 26:53
  selfish in a bad way, I think. Don't think it's
• 26:57
  bad to be selfish. Also, I think there is a time
• 27:00
  to be selfish. Oh yeah. So during my divorce
• 27:03
  and I'm probably going to break, like even just
• 27:05
  stuff that you said, I was like triggered to
• 27:07
  me during my divorce with my divorce lawyer.
• 27:10
  Like when you said, sometimes you sit down with
• 27:12
  people and you're like, I don't think you're
• 27:16
  ready. Have you said that to a client before?
• 27:18
  If they tell me they're not, I tell them it's
• 27:20
  not my job to force you to get divorced. If you're
• 27:23
  ready to get divorced. Okay. That's my job. But
• 27:25
  don't you think sometimes people don't know if
• 27:27
  they're ready until they sit down and like talk
• 27:29
  it all out? Okay. So the first time I, I mean,
• 27:33
  I went a couple of times before I did my filing,
• 27:35
  but I, the final time when I went and I gave
• 27:38
  him the check and I was like, go forward. And
• 27:40
  then I sent him a text at like 2 AM and I was
• 27:44
  like, stop, don't. I was like, I need, I need
• 27:48
  a little more time. And a week later. It was
• 27:51
  filed and I felt good about it. But it was almost
• 27:53
  just like you're not ready until you are exactly
• 27:57
  ready. And it really is a hard decision. And
• 27:59
  it's hard to be the one to pull the plug. It's
• 28:01
  hard to be the one that goes to do the filing.
• 28:03
  No question. But just you saying that, it made
• 28:07
  me think about being in that room and what a
• 28:10
  big deal it is. So you really do sit with people
• 28:12
  during a very vulnerable time, scary time. I'm
• 28:16
  sure they're anxious. It is a situation nobody
• 28:18
  wants to be in. Yet half of America ends up being
• 28:22
  in it. We always say nobody gets married wanting
• 28:25
  to get divorced. Right. So when that time comes,
• 28:28
  it's not something that was originally desired.
• 28:31
  It might be the right thing at that time, obviously,
• 28:34
  but not originally. But I do have a quote I wanted
• 28:36
  to ask you about. Are you ready for this? Yeah.
• 28:38
  Okay, here goes. Do you know who Jamie Kern Lima
• 28:42
  is? I do not. She was the founder of IT Cosmetics.
• 28:45
  Oh, I read her book because you told me to read
• 28:47
  her book. I read it. There you go. That is a
• 28:49
  great business story. Oh, it's amazing, right?
• 28:52
  She has so much to share. We're going to put
• 28:55
  the link to that in the show notes. You do have
• 28:59
  good book recommendations. I think my bookshelf
• 29:02
  and my office, half of them are from you. Good,
• 29:04
  good. And this is a great one. Here's something
• 29:05
  that she said that I thought was really interesting
• 29:07
  recently. It was from an interview she did. If
• 29:12
  you show up as who you authentically are in the
• 29:15
  fullness of who you are, there is nothing wrong
• 29:18
  with you. And so I was thinking about that, especially
• 29:22
  as you're talking about like, hey, look, I like
• 29:25
  furs and I like to walk into a room and feel
• 29:29
  like I'm powerful or how Cruella does that. There
• 29:32
  is nothing wrong with that, right? What's your
• 29:37
  take on that quote that she had for people who...
• 29:41
  Or maybe sometimes holding themselves back because
• 29:44
  they feel like they can't show up who they really
• 29:46
  are. I think a lot of people worry about what
• 29:49
  other people are going to think. And that's probably
• 29:52
  a big part of what holds people back to being
• 29:55
  themselves. Because we all want to be accepted.
• 29:57
  We want to be loved and taken into the fold,
• 30:01
  right? But when... you are shrinking yourself
• 30:04
  to be in those situations, it's a disservice.
• 30:08
  So really getting the confidence and getting
• 30:11
  really serious about who am I and who do I want
• 30:15
  to be to the world and being really okay with
• 30:18
  not everybody liking you because It's OK. You
• 30:21
  don't need everybody to like you. You need the
• 30:23
  right people to like you. And I do think the
• 30:26
  word selfish gets such a bad rap. And Cruella
• 30:30
  was definitely selfish. I mean, she wanted to
• 30:33
  steal all those puppies for her fur. I'm not
• 30:35
  going to steal anybody's puppies for my fur,
• 30:37
  OK? Let me make that. All the puppies are safe.
• 30:40
  The puppies, the bobcats might not be. Who knows?
• 30:43
  No, but they're also like. kind of nuisances
• 30:48
  on farms and stuff. They like, okay, that's what
• 30:51
  I tell myself. Anyway, selfish during my, when
• 30:55
  I was getting divorced, my ex would just tell
• 30:57
  me you're being so selfish, you're selfish, you're
• 31:00
  selfish. And just like trying to stab me with
• 31:03
  that word. And it made me angry because I thought,
• 31:07
  what world is it where I can't do what's best
• 31:10
  for me? And I had to just really just. get really
• 31:17
  confident in myself enough where when somebody
• 31:20
  was like, you're being selfish, that I could
• 31:22
  say, actually, I'm just taking care of myself
• 31:25
  and I'm doing what I need to do. And if that
• 31:26
  makes me selfish, whatever you want to call it,
• 31:29
  but at this moment, I can't go on with how it
• 31:32
  was. I have to make a change. And I think that
• 31:36
  we need to give permission. We need to give people
• 31:38
  permission to be selfish in times where they're
• 31:40
  trying to save themselves. That's literally how
• 31:43
  I felt. I was like, I have to save myself. And
• 31:46
  if I have to be selfish to save myself, then
• 31:48
  that's what I'm going to do. But cruel is selfishness
• 31:51
  is we all know people that are just selfish because
• 31:54
  they only care about themselves. I think there's
• 31:56
  just a big difference with that word and how
• 31:58
  it can be taken. Yeah. And I think you bring
• 32:00
  up a good point, right? Because I think the word
• 32:02
  can be used in a number of different settings,
• 32:04
  some for good and some for bad. When I think
• 32:07
  about what you were saying, to me, it's the image
• 32:10
  that comes to my mind is you always hear, you
• 32:13
  always are told every time you fly, right? If
• 32:15
  something happens in flight and those little
• 32:17
  things pop down, right? The little oxygen things,
• 32:20
  you put your mask on first. You don't put it
• 32:23
  on somebody else first. You have to put it on
• 32:25
  yourself first. Because if you don't and you're
• 32:28
  trying to do somebody else, you might. pass out
• 32:29
  or die right that's the idea but i think i think
• 32:32
  that principle really applies which is there
• 32:35
  are times and seasons where you've got to be
• 32:38
  a little bit more self -reflective and looking
• 32:40
  at like what do i need to do to make sure i'm
• 32:42
  okay because i'm not okay right now and i've
• 32:45
  got to be okay and is that do some people call
• 32:47
  that selfish maybe they will and maybe it's just
• 32:50
  a bad label for it But we have to do that in
• 32:53
  time. We have to make sure that we are okay so
• 32:56
  we can start to live into our authentic selves
• 32:59
  and live into who we can be. Because when we
• 33:01
  can, in my opinion, that's when we can actually
• 33:04
  do a greater good for other people. Absolutely.
• 33:06
  And you even just think about being a parent.
• 33:08
  How are you supposed to be a good parent when
• 33:11
  you're miserable and you are not taking care
• 33:14
  of yourself? And I had to teach my kids. Mom
• 33:17
  has got to be the best mom. I need to be happy.
• 33:21
  And in order to be happy, I need to make changes
• 33:23
  and really teaching them the process. And my
• 33:27
  kids have gone through more change than the average
• 33:29
  children, but they'll be the first to tell you
• 33:32
  that they're adaptable and they're okay and they've
• 33:34
  learned a lot. And I hope that they know if they're
• 33:38
  ever in a situation where they need a moment
• 33:40
  to do what's best for them, that they'll do it.
• 33:43
  And I will always encourage them to. What did
• 33:45
  that look like in that season for you to choose
• 33:48
  yourself and also to choose your kids first?
• 33:51
  What did that look like? How did that play out
• 33:52
  during that season of divorce? Oh, it was rough,
• 33:55
  Ryan. was living in a one -stop light town that
• 33:59
  was very Mormon influenced in the central part
• 34:01
  of Utah. And I'm from Dallas. I'm a city girl.
• 34:04
  Like when I moved to Texas, that explains the
• 34:10
  fur in the boots too, right? Totally does. And
• 34:12
  yeah, the cowboy boots today, a hundred percent
• 34:14
  it does. I wish I'd worn mine. But I told you,
• 34:16
  I've got ostrich boots. Those are the only ones
• 34:18
  I have. I should have sent you the wardrobe requirement.
• 34:21
  I know. We're not coordinating very well here,
• 34:23
  Erin. No, but I was living literally. The most
• 34:29
  opposite of an authentic life. I mean, I was
• 34:32
  really in a small town trapped and I was working
• 34:35
  in Provo. So I was every I was coming up so much
• 34:38
  and I just felt so pulled. And it was hard because
• 34:41
  for me to do what was best for me, it required
• 34:43
  a move. It required a lot of change for my kids.
• 34:47
  It wasn't going to be a situation where. mom's
• 34:50
  down the street, dad's down the street and everything's
• 34:52
  the same. It really did disrupt their lives more
• 34:55
  probably than I would like. But also we learned
• 35:00
  so many lessons and we still talk about them.
• 35:03
  Like we built our dream house. And then within
• 35:06
  eight months, we were in a tiny, tiny little
• 35:08
  apartment that was so small, but we still talk
• 35:12
  about it. And we're like, we learned the lesson
• 35:14
  that you can be happy anywhere. And now where
• 35:17
  my son was on a mission or My other son's living
• 35:20
  in Texas right now in a smaller place. I'm like,
• 35:24
  it doesn't matter. We've learned this already.
• 35:26
  That's old news. We can be happy anywhere. And
• 35:28
  if you can teach your kids at a young age, they
• 35:30
  can be happy anywhere. I look at that as a positive
• 35:33
  part of the divorce, even though it's hard to
• 35:36
  dig and find a lot of positive things during
• 35:38
  such a dark time. But the lessons do come out
• 35:41
  eventually. It might take a little time, but
• 35:43
  the lessons are always there. And you really
• 35:45
  do just have to sit and think, what is the lesson
• 35:48
  to learn and hold on to that part and let the
• 35:51
  rest go. As you're talking, it just reminds me
• 35:55
  that there is so much power in humility and going
• 35:59
  through humble circumstances at times. You know,
• 36:02
  I can remember first year of law school. My ex
• 36:08
  -wife and I, we moved there sight unseen. Didn't
• 36:11
  have any kids at the time. Couldn't afford to
• 36:13
  go there first to check out and scope out the
• 36:15
  places. So we just had to like base it off of
• 36:17
  photos on the internet. And this was back in
• 36:19
  2006. So wasn't nearly what it is today, right?
• 36:23
  We'd have a much better idea of what it is today.
• 36:25
  So we move into this apartment complex that looked
• 36:28
  great from the pictures. once we get there realize
• 36:30
  they just thrown a new paint job on it and it
• 36:33
  was the worst cockroach infested place like that
• 36:36
  i've ever been around and for that entire year
• 36:40
  we stuck it out and everything that we had had
• 36:44
  to be in tupperware every bit of food had to
• 36:46
  be in tupperware you couldn't cook on the stove
• 36:49
  and not be right there to watch it because cockroaches
• 36:52
  would just fall into whatever the pot was that
• 36:55
  you were cooking and it was i mean it was a terrible
• 37:00
  living arrangement we couldn't get rid of the
• 37:01
  cockroaches because we were a bottom unit and
• 37:03
  all the the units around us this is what the
• 37:06
  exterminator told us weren't clean either or
• 37:08
  weren't clean we were but they weren't so we
• 37:10
  were just going to continue to get cockroaches
• 37:11
  no matter how many times he treated no matter
• 37:13
  how much we did to keep it clean was just going
• 37:15
  to keep happening and you know at the time it
• 37:17
  felt horrible i look back on that now like any
• 37:21
  place i've lived since then i'm like this place
• 37:23
  is great i don't care that it's not that big
• 37:25
  at least i've got cockroaches in all my food
• 37:27
  It's not in my cereal. It's not in my soup. And
• 37:30
  you just, you, it's hard, but you learn such
• 37:34
  great lessons of like, no, you can be happy even
• 37:37
  when you have those kinds of circumstances. Because
• 37:40
  it's not about the apartment or the size of it.
• 37:43
  It's really about, you know, what's inside. What's
• 37:46
  your relationship with those you love. And if
• 37:48
  you teach your kids that at a young age, or even
• 37:50
  you at that age, the years after are going to
• 37:53
  just be better. Yeah. It's huge. It's huge. Before
• 37:57
  we jump back in, can I ask you a quick favor?
• 38:00
  If you're enjoying the journey so far, will you
• 38:03
  like, rate, and subscribe to our show? It helps
• 38:07
  us reach more people like you. We can design
• 38:10
  and create and build the most wonderful place
• 38:12
  in the world, but it takes people to make the
• 38:15
  dream a reality. Did you become a better lawyer
• 38:19
  after your divorce? 100%. How? No question. I
• 38:24
  can empathize and understand. in a way that i
• 38:27
  could not have understood before when you've
• 38:31
  been through it when you have to co -parent when
• 38:34
  you've had to go through the emotional battle
• 38:36
  of getting divorced when you sit across the table
• 38:40
  from somebody and you're describing you know
• 38:42
  some things that they should be expecting or
• 38:44
  you're in mediation with them and helping them
• 38:46
  understand what things could look like when i
• 38:48
  have that perspective of having lived it it changes
• 38:52
  the way that i can communicate with my clients
• 38:55
  for sure I'm sure there's a level of empathy
• 38:57
  as well that you just can't have. My divorce
• 39:02
  lawyer was divorced as well. I didn't really
• 39:04
  think about that until now, but I'm sure there's
• 39:06
  just a level of understanding that is invaluable.
• 39:10
  Yeah, for sure. What is a myth about divorce
• 39:15
  that... When people come in and, you know, we
• 39:18
  all come in and we think like our situation is
• 39:20
  so unique, but you probably see the same things
• 39:22
  over and over. What is something that you see
• 39:24
  over and over when people come in? You know,
• 39:28
  I think one of the myths that we see more now
• 39:31
  is relating to custody. One of the myths that
• 39:34
  still exists is that, you know, a mom's always
• 39:36
  going to get custody. And in the last 15 years,
• 39:41
  there's been a pendulum swing. It's not the other
• 39:44
  direction, obviously. It's not like dads are
• 39:46
  getting custody only. But balancing out of that,
• 39:49
  of recognizing what role a father can play. It's
• 39:53
  interesting in some of the research that's been
• 39:55
  done in recent years, I heard about one of the
• 40:01
  major studies that's been done about the involvement
• 40:03
  of dads in their kids' lives. So not in divorce
• 40:06
  specifically, but just in general of like millennial
• 40:08
  dads. in their lives of their kids that it's
• 40:11
  three to four times as much as the prior generation
• 40:14
  and so we do see is that dads are being more
• 40:17
  involved and that's a good thing i think that
• 40:18
  really benefits our kids and i think that also
• 40:21
  plays a role into you know recognizing they do
• 40:23
  need to be involved more maybe maybe it's not
• 40:25
  going to be 50 50 but it's probably not going
• 40:27
  to be minimum parent time either you're going
• 40:29
  to be some kind of joint custody arrangement
• 40:31
  so i think people come in thinking oh no moms
• 40:34
  are always going to get it we have to kind of
• 40:36
  reset expectations like that's not usually the
• 40:38
  way it works anymore My ex -husband, he, you
• 40:41
  know, we got the standard, the woman, I got legal,
• 40:45
  the majority of it. And then he got every other
• 40:48
  weekend, you know, it's Thursday and it was maybe
• 40:52
  a year in and he came to me and he's like, I
• 40:55
  will still pay you what I'm paying you, but can
• 40:58
  we work with this? And can I have them 50 50?
• 41:00
  And I think he waited long enough to show to
• 41:04
  me that like. He was going to follow all the
• 41:07
  rules and, you know, whatever we agreed to, he
• 41:09
  was in. But I think that he probably knew when
• 41:12
  he signed those divorce papers that this was
• 41:14
  not something he was going to be OK with long
• 41:16
  term. He needed to have them more. And we worked
• 41:19
  on our own. We did a good job. We did like a
• 41:22
  two, three, three, two. And then we switched
• 41:24
  to a week to week and we all thrived on it. You
• 41:27
  know, it helped all of us. But I think that's
• 41:30
  interesting what you did well there that I think
• 41:32
  sometimes people. Don't because it's hard to
• 41:34
  co -parent, which is if you were a 2 -3 -3 -2
• 41:37
  and then you switched to week to week, what you
• 41:39
  probably did is decided what was the best for
• 41:42
  your kids and made the adjustment. And people
• 41:44
  are really scared to do that sometimes. But like,
• 41:46
  look, every set of kids is different. And for
• 41:49
  some kids, like even if it's 50 -50, for some
• 41:52
  kids, a 2 -2 -5 -5 or a 2 -3 -3 -2. Sometimes
• 41:57
  that's better for kids, but sometimes a week
• 41:59
  on week off is better. Everybody. Well, we tried
• 42:02
  it for a summer and it was my idea. And of course,
• 42:04
  everybody pushed back. And I basically said,
• 42:07
  we're going to try it for this amount of time
• 42:09
  and then we'll all come back together and we'll
• 42:11
  decide if we want to keep it going. And I just
• 42:14
  knew at their ages, I mean, because they were
• 42:16
  about 10 and 12 when we got divorced and we were.
• 42:19
  Football equipment was getting left at one. It
• 42:21
  was really a logistical thing because everything
• 42:23
  was getting left everywhere and it felt chaotic.
• 42:26
  And the switching felt like once they were settled,
• 42:29
  it was switching again. And by the end of the
• 42:31
  summer, everybody agreed. It was good. But I
• 42:34
  learned in that situation week to week. Yeah.
• 42:36
  Yeah. Kids are way more adaptable than we are,
• 42:39
  but also kids will never choose change. And that
• 42:43
  was what I learned in that lesson. Because of
• 42:45
  course, if I was like, we're going to stop doing.
• 42:48
  this plan and we're going to do this plan. They're
• 42:50
  never going to say, yeah, mom, let's do it. Let's
• 42:52
  pick a new plan. They'll never pick it. They
• 42:54
  want to pick comfort and security. We all want
• 42:57
  that, but they're the ones who adapt so well.
• 43:00
  So you almost just have to go into things as
• 43:02
  a trial, let them ease into it and then let them
• 43:05
  have a voice. I think it's very important. And
• 43:08
  that was one thing I didn't always do, you know,
• 43:09
  when my kids would. I can go to the lawyer and
• 43:12
  pick what, you know, my kids would tell me that.
• 43:15
  I hope that's normal. Ryan, tell me. I mean,
• 43:17
  kids say that all the time because kids are smart
• 43:19
  and they learn what things to say. And they hear
• 43:21
  stuff from their kids at school or their family
• 43:24
  member. But they'd come to me like that and it
• 43:26
  would just kill my ego. I was just like, oh,
• 43:29
  you think so? I didn't handle that all the right
• 43:32
  way. But the boys would say now they're in college.
• 43:38
  Their friends who have married parents that are
• 43:40
  living in the same house, they're like, they
• 43:43
  have not even gone through anything. And they're
• 43:45
  not going to be ready for the world the same
• 43:47
  way we are. They're vocalizing that even at their
• 43:50
  young ages, where there's a level of maturity
• 43:52
  that does come from going through divorce as
• 43:55
  kids. And I think we can't go back and change
• 43:58
  anything, but we can learn and take the lessons
• 44:00
  and reframe it in a way where, yeah, mom and
• 44:04
  dad are better as friends. And now they're like,
• 44:06
  we can't even imagine you married. They say that
• 44:08
  all the time. They're like, you guys are so different.
• 44:10
  We can never imagine it. Yeah. Okay. So after
• 44:13
  seeing so many marriages come apart, what would
• 44:19
  you say is a trait that creates a successful
• 44:22
  relationship and marriage? Besides communication,
• 44:26
  because we both agree. Yeah. No one's going to
• 44:29
  stay married if they're not communicating, unless
• 44:30
  they're just, I don't know, maybe I couldn't.
• 44:35
  Yeah. What I would say is, and maybe you could
• 44:37
  argue that it's going to be tied to communication,
• 44:39
  but I would say leading with kindness and curiosity.
• 44:46
  Because to me, kindness just does so much, you
• 44:50
  know, and kindness is born of empathy. and if
• 44:56
  if you want to be empathetic for what somebody
• 44:59
  else is experiencing you've got to be curious
• 45:02
  about why they're experiencing it and you'd think
• 45:05
  that in a relationship that you would but people
• 45:09
  don't they forget to start asking the questions
• 45:12
  or keep asking the questions like why are you
• 45:14
  experiencing what you're why why you know Where
• 45:17
  we're at right now. Why are we struggling? Like
• 45:19
  what does it mean for you? Where does that come
• 45:20
  from? Right being really curious and digging
• 45:22
  down and then truly truly trying to listen Not
• 45:25
  being offended when the answer comes back that
• 45:28
  maybe you weren't expecting right? and in the
• 45:32
  responses being Kind in your responses because
• 45:35
  it's really easy to have a sharp tongue when
• 45:38
  somebody criticizes you for something you did
• 45:42
  or is giving you feedback that maybe you don't
• 45:45
  love. It's really easy to have a sharp tongue
• 45:47
  back. But when we can respond with kindness,
• 45:50
  especially for the person that we do love, I
• 45:53
  just think it goes so far. You know, you talk
• 45:57
  about losing a really close friend of yours.
• 45:59
  And it's just, I mean, honestly, anybody that's
• 46:02
  listened to this, like, I really like, I mean,
• 46:04
  like, go and listen to that episode. It's a really...
• 46:07
  it's a really good episode to listen to and to
• 46:09
  learn from for for right now when we think about
• 46:15
  loss we think about things like that we experience
• 46:18
  what what's like a major lesson that you took
• 46:23
  from experiencing loss in the way that you did
• 46:25
  with such a close friend that that passed away
• 46:27
  from cancer that you could share with our audiences
• 46:31
  um if they're going through that kind of a really
• 46:36
  really difficult loss or trauma i think i you
• 46:41
  know when i lost my best friend to cancer and
• 46:44
  it was um just a real i'd never lost a name but
• 46:49
  my grandparents were all still alive i had just
• 46:51
  never experienced loss so i had to learn to mourn
• 46:54
  and nobody talks about that or teaches you because
• 46:58
  it's so personal and there's no guidebook to
• 47:01
  it. Everybody's going to go through it in their
• 47:03
  own way. I think for me, I just had to learn
• 47:08
  that it just takes time and that you just can't
• 47:12
  rush it. I mean, I cried. I was making that drive
• 47:15
  back and forth from that one stoplight town up
• 47:18
  here. several times a week. And I would just
• 47:21
  cry in the car. That was like my time alone.
• 47:23
  And I didn't have my kids and I'd go to work
• 47:25
  and then I'd work and come back and I would just
• 47:28
  let it out. And I cried for years and it never
• 47:33
  got, I never missed her any less. And I still,
• 47:37
  I actually talked to my psychic today and she
• 47:40
  came through. So it's so funny that you even
• 47:42
  wanted to talk about this. I don't know if you
• 47:44
  believe in psychics, but today she was just like,
• 47:48
  I see you and she knows I'm stressed and she
• 47:50
  wanted to just make sure that I was good. She's
• 47:53
  like, I know not a lot of people around you can
• 47:56
  really see this, but I see it. So she's still
• 47:59
  my best friend, just on the other side. There's
• 48:05
  just no rule book. The grief is love with nowhere
• 48:08
  to go. there's just no way through it other than
• 48:13
  through it. And there's no timeline and it's
• 48:16
  not linear. It's going to go up and down, but
• 48:18
  you can learn to take the memories and the lessons
• 48:24
  and carry them on in a way. They're still part
• 48:27
  of your day -to -day life where they don't, they
• 48:29
  might not be here physically, but just keep them
• 48:31
  in your heart. For me, that's made all the difference
• 48:33
  because. Like, she's still there. She's still
• 48:36
  somebody I can talk to and who sees me and understands
• 48:39
  me. And maybe she has more influence over me
• 48:43
  from her side than here. I don't know. But I
• 48:48
  wish she was here. So I think that leads so beautifully
• 48:53
  into this quote that I found. It's by Megan Devine.
• 48:56
  She wrote the book called It's Okay That You're
• 48:58
  Not Okay. And I'm going to get your take on this
• 49:00
  quote. She said, some things cannot be fixed.
• 49:03
  they can only be carried and so have you seen
• 49:07
  that oh i think when i hear that i think i just
• 49:11
  picture her boys because i wanted to fix it i
• 49:14
  wanted to bring their mom back like she was the
• 49:17
  most exceptional mom and after she was gone her
• 49:20
  home was never the same and her kids were never
• 49:24
  the same her family was never the same and i'm
• 49:27
  a fixer and i want to fix everything but to carry
• 49:30
  it is to happy that happy place as a reminder
• 49:35
  I remember one of her sons was working at McDonald's
• 49:37
  in the drive -thru and I would just make sure
• 49:40
  to give that extra big smile and be so happy
• 49:44
  to see him because I know when he looks at me
• 49:46
  he connects me to his mom even though he was
• 49:51
  so little when she passed and I think that There
• 49:58
  is just no right or wrong way and just being
• 50:00
  easy on yourself and knowing that sometimes the
• 50:04
  lesson is just being able to carry it and to
• 50:07
  never forget. I never want to forget her. Not
• 50:12
  everywhere can be the happiest place on earth.
• 50:15
  And at RCG Law Group, my job outside of our podcast,
• 50:19
  we get that. Life throws curveballs, legal stuff,
• 50:23
  family stuff, the things you didn't see coming.
• 50:26
  That's what we're here for. If you're dealing
• 50:28
  with something and don't know where to turn,
• 50:30
  give RCG a call. I think it's a beautiful lesson.
• 50:35
  And when we experience grief and loss and pain,
• 50:40
  there can come from a lot of beautiful things
• 50:46
  eventually. They don't necessarily come right
• 50:51
  away. In fact, they can come years later, right?
• 50:55
  But we all do experience that. We all do experience
• 50:57
  loss to some degree at times. Truth be told,
• 51:00
  I've never lost somebody that was really close
• 51:04
  to me. My grandparents on my mom's side both
• 51:08
  died when I was relatively young. My dad's side,
• 51:11
  my grandma, I was a teenager, but we weren't
• 51:15
  super close with her. She had some struggles
• 51:17
  with addiction and such. Lovely person, but had
• 51:20
  some struggles with it. And then my granddad
• 51:22
  on that side, like he was just the most quiet
• 51:24
  person he had. I think it was in the Navy in
• 51:28
  World War II. Probably carried some trauma from
• 51:31
  that. Didn't like to talk about it. Didn't talk
• 51:32
  much. Very, very quiet person. So when he passed
• 51:35
  away when I was in my 20s, I just didn't know
• 51:36
  him very well. And I've never had somebody super
• 51:40
  close pass away. and it's it's kind of like i
• 51:44
  feel like totally unprepared right because when
• 51:47
  i see and hear about grief that that you carry
• 51:49
  for this best friend i'm like oh man what's what's
• 51:52
  it going to be like when i do like i get my whole
• 51:54
  head about it like oh my goodness when somebody
• 51:55
  really close dies this is going to be so hard
• 51:57
  i'm just going to fall apart um and that might
• 51:59
  be true i probably will but then sometimes i
• 52:03
  need to like just remember what hasn't happened
• 52:04
  yet i need to live in where i'm at now i need
• 52:06
  to appreciate the people that i do have and really
• 52:09
  value the moments that i have with the people
• 52:11
  that i have now They'll not always be here. I
• 52:13
  won't always be here, but I really have to appreciate
• 52:15
  the time I have. Every day is a gift, literally.
• 52:18
  Every day. And you just want, you want to learn
• 52:23
  while life is good, but we only learn through
• 52:25
  the hard parts and the losses. And relationship
• 52:28
  losses are part of grief altogether. And, but
• 52:33
  what is the alternative? Not loving somebody
• 52:35
  or not having a close relationship and still
• 52:38
  like. I hope everybody has a best friend the
• 52:41
  way I have Amberlee. And I would never trade
• 52:44
  anything, even all the tears and all the years,
• 52:47
  I would never trade that for my years that I
• 52:50
  got her. And I think you just have to look at
• 52:55
  it as a blessing. Like it was such a blessing
• 52:57
  that I got to experience that. 100%. 100%. One
• 53:03
  of the things I wrote down was from... And an
• 53:07
  author, a professor that I really like, she wrote
• 53:10
  a book called Mindset. Her name is Carol Dweck.
• 53:13
  And one thing she said in there is becoming is
• 53:17
  better than being. And so for you, what does
• 53:21
  that mean to you of the process of becoming is
• 53:24
  better than just being? Growth. Yeah. I wish
• 53:28
  I sometimes I wish I didn't grow so fast, but.
• 53:33
  I grow really fast. It's just, I'm a Scorpio.
• 53:36
  I have this like intensity and emotional aspect
• 53:39
  of me that craves more experiences and craves
• 53:45
  new insight and conversations. And it's just
• 53:49
  like mentally stimulating for me. And I feel
• 53:54
  stuck sometimes when I'm not being emotionally
• 53:57
  stimulated. And I think that. It's a trade -off
• 54:02
  because I look at some people and I see they're
• 54:04
  just happy with their one life and their one
• 54:06
  house and their one marriage and they're so happy.
• 54:10
  And sometimes that looks easier. It's just not
• 54:15
  how I was made. And I think just when I went
• 54:19
  down the journey of learning who I was and really
• 54:21
  accepting that about me and seeing. It's never
• 54:24
  going to change. So Aaron, you just got to accept
• 54:26
  it and you just got to roll with it and make
• 54:29
  it the most. It's going to be this big, crazy,
• 54:31
  beautiful life and I'm okay. And I'm here for
• 54:34
  it. Like that's just my life. And I'm probably
• 54:37
  going to live chapters and parts and my big,
• 54:40
  at my funeral, you guys are going to have a lot
• 54:42
  of stories about everything I was up to, but
• 54:45
  that is who I am. And I'm not going to fight
• 54:47
  that. So becoming. is growth to me and it looks
• 54:52
  so different for different people and there's
• 54:55
  no right or wrong way and my friends who are
• 54:57
  living their same one life they're so happy and
• 54:59
  that's all that matters but i know they look
• 55:02
  at me and they probably well one they might think
• 55:05
  it's it's exhausting to be growing because it
• 55:07
  is but also i know they're proud of me and they
• 55:11
  know that That's who I am. And instead of fighting
• 55:15
  it, I'm just going to put it into a healthy way.
• 55:17
  And relationships are very important to me. That's
• 55:20
  one thing. I want to keep growing and growing
• 55:22
  my whole life, but I want to keep my people close.
• 55:25
  I don't want to outgrow relationships. And if
• 55:29
  you aren't communicating, if that's not on your
• 55:32
  front of your mind, you can outgrow relationships.
• 55:35
  But that's a part I want to keep growing. But
• 55:37
  it's important to me to have my home team, my
• 55:40
  home base in these relationships, these friendships
• 55:43
  that I've had a long time are important to me.
• 55:46
  And moving forward, I want my next partner to
• 55:49
  be my last partner. I want a partner to grow
• 55:51
  with me. And we grow together. And it's just
• 55:54
  this big adventure. And that's how I see the
• 55:57
  rest of my life. growing days playing out i love
• 56:00
  that i i was talking with somebody the other
• 56:02
  day and they described um this idea of in a relationship
• 56:08
  that people do grow and um it really kind of
• 56:12
  like shifted my mindset about the way he talked
• 56:14
  about it's like some people will grow apart and
• 56:17
  then relationship ends but but good relationships
• 56:21
  and the best relationships as they grow and they
• 56:24
  become somebody different, they're actually growing
• 56:26
  together and becoming somebody different together
• 56:28
  and continue to fall in love with this new version
• 56:31
  as they grow together. And that's just something
• 56:33
  that's so beautiful to me. I love that. That's
• 56:35
  the goal. It actually happened to be Dawson's
• 56:37
  dad, who was on an episode that we haven't aired
• 56:40
  yet. And it was just completely flipped the script
• 56:45
  for me. of like no it's okay to grow it's okay
• 56:48
  to be somebody different than when you first
• 56:49
  got married or you first got in this relationship
• 56:51
  and it can be a really beautiful thing because
• 56:53
  you can continue to fall in love with somebody
• 56:55
  as you grow together it's just like i love that
• 56:58
  but it takes two people willing to do that because
• 57:01
  my my ex -husband called my mom crying i want
• 57:05
  the old aaron back i just want the old aaron
• 57:07
  back and he did because he stayed the same he
• 57:10
  stayed the same he wanted me to stay the same
• 57:12
  and it just couldn't happen so if you can find
• 57:16
  that and set that tone from the start where it's
• 57:19
  like whoever i you know my my final husband is
• 57:23
  gonna look at me and be like i might get 10 more
• 57:25
  versions of you and i'm here for it and let's
• 57:28
  just see what what happens and i'm gonna grow
• 57:30
  with you and i'm gonna let you be you like that's
• 57:32
  what i need i i need somebody who has a growth
• 57:34
  mindset as well or they're just not you know,
• 57:38
  going to keep up with me, but I want that in
• 57:39
  a partner too. I want somebody who is evolving
• 57:42
  and growing. And that's where I just haven't
• 57:45
  found my partner yet because I haven't found
• 57:48
  a man who I can grow with. Yeah. And you know,
• 57:51
  it, and it comes to you when it comes to you,
• 57:53
  because, you know, ultimately one of the things
• 57:56
  that I think in relationships we should avoid
• 58:00
  is maybe something that you were experiencing
• 58:02
  when, when he wanted that, which is codependency.
• 58:05
  he was codependent on you and that's that's not
• 58:08
  makings of a healthy relationship i've heard
• 58:11
  it described by um marriage and family therapists
• 58:14
  as interdependency like you have to be able to
• 58:16
  be independent and then you can depend on each
• 58:19
  other for things but you have to be able to stand
• 58:21
  independently and be okay with who you are without
• 58:24
  each other and then you can truly grow together
• 58:26
  and make each other better but if you're codependent
• 58:28
  you won't right it's really can be very very
• 58:31
  damaging right That was a big part of our marriage.
• 58:36
  I don't like it. I mean, I'm not a marriage and
• 58:37
  family therapist, and we'll put it right out
• 58:39
  there. But you're a second best divorce lawyer.
• 58:42
  I was hearing hallmarks of it. I was hearing
• 58:43
  hallmarks of it. Yeah. Okay. So you ready for
• 58:46
  a fun segment? Yes. Okay. We're going to do a
• 58:48
  little this or that. Okay. And so, look, if you
• 58:51
  have a controversial opinion, I'm going to have
• 58:53
  to call you out on it. You know me. I have opinions
• 58:54
  on everything. Good. A few of them, too. Good.
• 58:58
  Okay. Disneyland or Disney World? Disneyland
• 59:05
  I've been at a Disney World since I was a little
• 59:07
  kid I think I had a trip to take my boys to Disney
• 59:10
  World and I was gonna spend a fortune and then
• 59:15
  I was like why am I taking him to Disney World
• 59:17
  and because I wanted to take him to see like
• 59:20
  the real world and yeah so that's kind of the
• 59:23
  that's me in a nutshell I want to show them things
• 59:27
  I love it and have good experiences and what
• 59:30
  the world's really like sunrise or sunset a sunset
• 59:33
  it's beautiful where's your favorite sunset any
• 59:39
  beach i'm a water i'm a water sign and i love
• 59:42
  i feel so connected to water and a sunset over
• 59:45
  a beach sitting on a patio with a glass of wine
• 59:48
  can't be beat i when i think of it i think of
• 59:53
  um when i was in oahu with my wife and we had
• 59:59
  been along with waikiki beach and we just found
• 1:00:02
  some random place to eat food and we were coming
• 1:00:04
  out of it and the sun was setting and it was
• 1:00:06
  like the most beautiful thing I could ever imagine.
• 1:00:10
  It was just like, that's heaven right there.
• 1:00:12
  It was amazing. There's something about the sunset.
• 1:00:14
  I mean, I know the sunrise is like the start
• 1:00:16
  of the day, but just like a deep breath is what
• 1:00:19
  a sunset is to me. And it's like, okay, we did
• 1:00:22
  it another day. Yeah. I think that's a good,
• 1:00:24
  I like that a lot. Quiet night in or night out
• 1:00:27
  on the town? Both. I can't have one without the
• 1:00:31
  other. Okay. I'm going to make you choose one.
• 1:00:36
  Probably. Oh, okay. Okay. A weeknight in weekend
• 1:00:41
  out. Cause you like sometimes to lay low. I do
• 1:00:44
  lay low after work, but on a weekend I want to
• 1:00:47
  go out. Okay. I have, that's an acceptable answer.
• 1:00:50
  Totally is. Cause I, I'm very similar. I am not
• 1:00:54
  out of the house on a weeknight. There's times
• 1:00:56
  where, yeah, I get done with work and all I want
• 1:00:58
  to do is like, okay, I'll go home. The kids are
• 1:01:00
  there. i'm definitely gonna like try to like
• 1:01:02
  wrestle around with them or engage with them
• 1:01:05
  and play with them i don't want to go anywhere
• 1:01:07
  right right like we gonna be in let's just throw
• 1:01:10
  on a movie or let's just like play a board game
• 1:01:14
  because i do not want to go out yeah yeah there's
• 1:01:17
  definitely times where i'm both um okay here's
• 1:01:20
  the last this or that texting thread or one long
• 1:01:24
  phone call do not call me no one should call
• 1:01:28
  me I probably won't even answer. I really only
• 1:01:31
  answer for a very select few people. I would
• 1:01:35
  deny your call and then text you and say, hey,
• 1:01:38
  how are you? I think most people would answer
• 1:01:40
  that texting thread. Or they would answer a phone
• 1:01:44
  call. They would prefer a phone call. Not me
• 1:01:45
  either. I'm with you. Really? I don't really
• 1:01:47
  like talking on the phone, to be honest. Really?
• 1:01:48
  I wouldn't think people want to talk on the phone.
• 1:01:51
  I'll talk on the phone to my wife on my drive
• 1:01:53
  home every day. That's our thing. That's our
• 1:01:55
  routine. It's a way that we get a chance to connect
• 1:01:56
  and talk. Before you walk in the door. I love
• 1:01:59
  that. But that is it. Anybody else wants to talk
• 1:02:03
  on the phone? I'd rather not, to be honest. We
• 1:02:06
  talk all day, Ryan. We're talking all day when
• 1:02:09
  we get home. But if I was sitting at home all
• 1:02:12
  day, I'd want to talk at night. Yeah. it's just
• 1:02:14
  i think that's fair i think that's fair probably
• 1:02:16
  yeah you're exactly right because we talk all
• 1:02:17
  day it totally makes sense okay here's a rapid
• 1:02:19
  fire you ready for these okay favorite disney
• 1:02:23
  movie little mermaid so good yeah i mean we all
• 1:02:28
  wanted to be ariel sorry i mean and we all wanted
• 1:02:31
  that prince eric he's hot for sure i under the
• 1:02:34
  sea was like my jam I would, as a little Ryan,
• 1:02:38
  like... Sebastian dancing? We totally would dance
• 1:02:41
  to it and sing it. We just loved it. I mean,
• 1:02:43
  I think she was probably three and I was five.
• 1:02:45
  Like, oh, we loved it. Favorite Disney song?
• 1:02:50
  Part of that world, Little Mermaid. So good.
• 1:02:54
  I want to be where the people are. That's me.
• 1:02:57
  Unless it's a work day and then I want to be
• 1:03:01
  at home. Okay, so I know you're not a huge Disney
• 1:03:03
  fan. However... last weekend was D23, which they
• 1:03:08
  do every two years at Disneyland. They do a big
• 1:03:11
  convention. They announce all the upcoming projects,
• 1:03:14
  movies. They announce all the things they're
• 1:03:16
  going to do to the parks over the next few years.
• 1:03:18
  It's a big, big deal, right? One of the things
• 1:03:20
  they also do is they award the Disney Legends
• 1:03:22
  Award to people that are Disney Legends. One
• 1:03:26
  of the people they awarded it to was Lin -Manuel
• 1:03:27
  Miranda, whom I love, right? Moana, Encanto,
• 1:03:31
  Hamilton, many things. In his speech that he
• 1:03:34
  gave, He took the words from that song and rewrote
• 1:03:38
  them a little bit to being like showing gratitude
• 1:03:41
  for things that he had had happen, experiences
• 1:03:43
  he had with Disney to part of your world. To
• 1:03:45
  the Little Mermaid song. Yes, it was so lovely.
• 1:03:47
  It was so, it was amazing. Send it to me. And
• 1:03:51
  then he had it written on the inside of his cover
• 1:03:56
  of his VHS of Little Mermaid that he had. And
• 1:03:59
  he had the girl who played Little Mermaid sign
• 1:04:02
  it at the thing. I was like, this is blowing
• 1:04:04
  my mind. This shows you're a Disney adult, but
• 1:04:07
  this is flowing. It does. It was amazing. I'm
• 1:04:10
  so happy for you. I love it. Favorite Disney
• 1:04:14
  princess? Wow, Belle. Is Belle a princess? She
• 1:04:19
  is. In that beautiful yellow dress? That's exactly
• 1:04:21
  why. I love Beauty and the Beast, and I love
• 1:04:24
  Belle. Belle's awesome. She just wanted fine
• 1:04:26
  love. She's smart. She likes to read. She likes
• 1:04:30
  to use her imagination. She wasn't scared of
• 1:04:33
  some big bad guy. She's like, bring it on. She
• 1:04:36
  loves a challenge. She does. Favorite Disney
• 1:04:39
  hero or heroine? Moana. I do love Moana. I listened
• 1:04:45
  to your Moana episode too. moana was big when
• 1:04:49
  i was getting divorced and i felt this like what
• 1:04:53
  that opening song i don't remember it but you
• 1:04:55
  remember it where she's with the village and
• 1:04:56
  then she like wants to leave so bad what's the
• 1:04:59
  song um now i can't remember the song either
• 1:05:02
  but like her dad's singing it she's singing it
• 1:05:05
  it's yes the the sea and the sky it calls me
• 1:05:11
  I was seeing that song and I was in Hawaii around
• 1:05:15
  this time and I was at the beach and I wanted
• 1:05:21
  to bring home like a memory of Hawaii. It was
• 1:05:25
  my first time I stayed at turtle Bay and I brought,
• 1:05:28
  it was right before I was getting divorced because
• 1:05:31
  I took home this black lava rock from the Island
• 1:05:34
  and I packed it in my suitcase. Didn't even think
• 1:05:38
  about it, went home and then. Literally, Ryan,
• 1:05:41
  my life blew up and the divorce all went through
• 1:05:43
  within maybe six weeks. And I was talking to
• 1:05:48
  somebody about it or somebody saw the rock in
• 1:05:51
  my office. And I was like, it's a lava rock.
• 1:05:54
  And they were like, don't you know you'd never
• 1:05:55
  take a lava rock from Hawaii? It's like the worst
• 1:05:58
  omen ever. And I thought back, I was like, once
• 1:06:02
  I took that rock, everything went downhill. And
• 1:06:05
  then I took the rock and I... mailed it to the
• 1:06:08
  turtle bay and i said please return this to the
• 1:06:11
  beach because i cannot have any more bad luck
• 1:06:13
  and that was my moana my my moana moment because
• 1:06:17
  i had a little moana next to the lava rock yeah
• 1:06:20
  and then then it was just moana she was solo
• 1:06:22
  the song that she sings is how far i'll go yes
• 1:06:27
  and it is a lovely song because you know as i'm
• 1:06:30
  thinking about how it applies to you i know we're
• 1:06:32
  not talking about one of this episode but um
• 1:06:34
  Yeah, I think to some degree, I don't think maybe
• 1:06:37
  you realized how far you could go. And sometimes
• 1:06:40
  a change in life, a change in seasons in life
• 1:06:43
  is what helps us see that as you go to the horizon,
• 1:06:47
  as you go and try this new chapter in life, which
• 1:06:50
  you did, right? The divorce was something that,
• 1:06:52
  although hard, was necessary for you to grow
• 1:06:55
  and become who you were, right? And Moana needed
• 1:06:58
  to leave her island, even though it was something
• 1:07:00
  uncomfortable. Even though it was hard, right?
• 1:07:01
  It was hard. she had to do that to find out who
• 1:07:03
  she really was and what she was really capable
• 1:07:05
  of so love that love that choice um favorite
• 1:07:09
  disney ride oh i do like i mean i would i was
• 1:07:14
  not a horrible mom i took my kids to disneyland
• 1:07:16
  but like once they were past disneyland i was
• 1:07:19
  past it too but grandkids i will take my grandkids
• 1:07:22
  ride i love peter pan for sure It's too short
• 1:07:29
  though. You wait in that line and then it's like,
• 1:07:30
  what, three minutes ride? That is the hard part
• 1:07:33
  because it is always a very popular ride. The
• 1:07:35
  line is always long. Why can't Peter Pan be as
• 1:07:39
  long as It's a Small World? Why can't we flip
• 1:07:42
  -flop those? Because It's a Small World should
• 1:07:43
  be three minutes and Peter Pan should be 20.
• 1:07:46
  I mean, girl, I'm with you. It's a small world.
• 1:07:48
  It's not my favorite. There's some people who
• 1:07:50
  have been on this podcast and said it's a small
• 1:07:51
  world. It's their favorite ride. It's one of
• 1:07:53
  my wife's favorite rides, and I would rather
• 1:07:55
  do without it. The only thing that's good for
• 1:07:57
  me, this is a controversial opinion, hopefully
• 1:07:59
  I don't offend people, is when I need a nap because
• 1:08:02
  it's been a long day. And I'm like, yeah, let's
• 1:08:04
  go on. It's a small world, so I can sleep through
• 1:08:05
  it. And it's cold. Yes. Right? Favorite city
• 1:08:10
  to visit? Oh, man. I'm going to say Nashville
• 1:08:14
  right now. I love Nashville. So fun. You love
• 1:08:18
  it? I'm not even a country music guy. Oh, it's
• 1:08:21
  the music. I love it. The vibe. It's like. It's
• 1:08:24
  so fun. Yeah. Yeah. I love you some Nash Vegas.
• 1:08:28
  Yes. Oh, yeah. Definitely. Favorite dog breed?
• 1:08:32
  Any doodle. I have a Labradoodle. I've had a
• 1:08:35
  Golden Doodle. I think any breed with a doodle
• 1:08:38
  is special. Yeah. Yeah. They are fun. Favorite
• 1:08:42
  go -to song to blast in the car? Alicia Keys'
• 1:08:48
  Girl on Fire. See, I was going to sing it. I
• 1:08:53
  can't sing it all. I'm going to hurt people's
• 1:08:54
  ears if I try to sing this. Have you seen Hell's
• 1:08:59
  Kitchen? No. That's the Broadway show about her
• 1:09:02
  life and has her songs in it. No. Girl. I got
• 1:09:06
  to go. You got to. I think it's actually in the
• 1:09:08
  Eccles next year. Oh, cool. Totally worth it.
• 1:09:11
  Love it. Yeah. That song is like a mantra song
• 1:09:14
  to me. Music is mantra to me. Yeah. Yeah. That
• 1:09:16
  song is a power. Yeah. Yeah. Love that song.
• 1:09:19
  Favorite statement accessory? A handbag. Okay.
• 1:09:24
  Which one? Well, Louis Vuitton is what I started
• 1:09:28
  with and it's just spread, but that's how I reward
• 1:09:31
  myself for hard work. And every episode of Yes
• 1:09:34
  and Land with... three actionable takeaways from
• 1:09:37
  our guests so aaron what are three things that
• 1:09:40
  our listeners could put into effect in their
• 1:09:42
  lives today or this week to help them in this
• 1:09:49
  journey that they have and in learning from the
• 1:09:51
  things that we talked about today things that
• 1:09:54
  came up today um Talking about Amberly, I think
• 1:09:58
  it's important to live in the moment and to stop
• 1:10:01
  yourself in your tracks when you are feeling
• 1:10:03
  that joy and happiness when you're like, hell
• 1:10:06
  yeah, like this is what life's about. Literally
• 1:10:08
  stopping yourself and saying out loud, I want
• 1:10:11
  more moments like this. That's my line. More
• 1:10:14
  moments like this and just stop yourself and
• 1:10:16
  just invite more of that into your life. And
• 1:10:19
  I think that little thing can help create more
• 1:10:21
  and more happiness. That's a really good one.
• 1:10:24
  Okay, so. Stop and take a moment and then remind
• 1:10:28
  yourself you want more of that. More of that.
• 1:10:29
  Bring it on. Fantastic. Two more. I think with
• 1:10:35
  your views of divorce, being divorced and being
• 1:10:39
  a divorce lawyer, I think you have a lot of wisdom
• 1:10:43
  that you probably haven't even shared here, but
• 1:10:45
  just emphasizing communication in a relationship.
• 1:10:50
  And it's not just in a partnership with. a husband
• 1:10:53
  and wife or whatever with your kids, with your
• 1:10:55
  parents. I think that's one thing. Parents struggle
• 1:10:59
  as they get older and your kids get older and
• 1:11:00
  like keeping that communication, just being able
• 1:11:03
  to communicate in a healthy way with all relationships
• 1:11:07
  in your life is something that I think everybody
• 1:11:10
  could do a little better. Yeah, totally agree.
• 1:11:12
  Okay. And last one. Maybe I need to go to Disneyland.
• 1:11:17
  Maybe I need to like go get a... Corn dog on
• 1:11:19
  a stick. Yes. And a funnel cake. Well, I don't
• 1:11:22
  even know. What's the best treat? Churro. A churro.
• 1:11:25
  Okay. I need a corn dog in one hand because I
• 1:11:27
  know where that booth is. And I get a churro.
• 1:11:29
  And I don't even care if I need to ride a ride.
• 1:11:31
  I'm just going to eat and hang. Right? Girl,
• 1:11:34
  if you're going to do that, you're going to call
• 1:11:36
  me up. I'm going to hang out. Hi. Disneyland
• 1:11:39
  can be a really fun place to just. Chill and
• 1:11:43
  relax. And if you wanted to, you could lay low.
• 1:11:45
  No, right. You could just lay low. You really
• 1:11:47
  could. I totally would do that and just go for
• 1:11:49
  the vibe. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much
• 1:11:52
  for being on with us today. What a joy and a
• 1:11:54
  pleasure to be able to visit with you for all
• 1:11:56
  the things that you bring and for the vulnerability
• 1:11:58
  that you show. A blessing in the lives to those
• 1:12:01
  who listen and those who are in your life. So
• 1:12:03
  thank you so much. As you leave this conversation,
• 1:12:07
  remember that yes, the past can hurt and you
• 1:12:10
  can either run from it. or you can learn from
• 1:12:12
  it so here's to learning and finding joy in the
• 1:12:16
  journey see you real soon