Latest / Pop of Culture / S03 E04 - We Reflect on the Banks of the Tallahatchie

Transcript

S03 E04 - We Reflect on the Banks of the Tallahatchie · Pop of Culture

0:00
[Announcer] Support for "Pop of Culture"
0:01
comes from Stallings Wealth Management,
0:02
Daniel Stallings, financial advisor,
0:04
securities and advisory services offered
0:06
through Cetera Advisors, LLC. Member FINRA/SIPC,
0:09
a broker/dealer and registered investment advisor,
0:12
Cetera is under separate ownership
0:13
from any other named entity.
0:14
(upbeat funk music)
0:16
[Michelle] This week on "Pop of Culture,"
0:18
art about change and changing art.
0:22
We'll bring you an exhibition
0:23
about the civil rights movement
0:25
and a longtime artist who talks about
0:27
how to dive into the art world.
0:30
[Kara DuQuette] If you close your studio, no one's gonna
0:33
come and ask you to open it back up again necessarily.
0:35
[Michelle] Also, the Tiny Desk Contest is back for 2026
0:39
and we'll get tips from the judges themselves,
0:43
and a balloon artist,
0:45
very brave of them to show up at "Pop." (laughs)
0:48
That's coming up.
0:50
[Luke Jones] Support for "Pop of Culture"
0:51
comes from Stallings Wealth Management,
0:55
the Innovation Connector, and from you.
1:00
With state and federal money eliminated,
1:03
you are the difference
1:04
in keeping local programming on the air at IPR.
1:08
Become a member today at indianapublicradio.org.
1:13
[Michelle] This is Pop of Culture I'm Michelle Kinsey.
1:18
[Kara DuQuette] And I'm Kara DuQuette.
1:20
We want to be upfront that our first story is pretty heavy
1:23
and you'll hear descriptions of violence,
1:25
including sounds of gunshots.
1:27
[Michelle] In August of 1955, a 14-year-old boy
1:31
arrived at his relative's house in Mississippi.
1:34
Less than a week later, he was lynched
1:36
and thrown into the Tallahatchie River.
1:39
[Kara] There's an exhibition at Minnetrista Museum & Gardens
1:42
that tells the story of Emmett Till
1:44
and his mother, Mamie Till-Mobley,
1:46
and how they changed the civil rights movement.
1:49
[Michelle] Our producer Luke Jones and I took a tour
1:51
before it was open to the public.
1:53
Just outside, we met up with Sebastian Encina.
1:57
[Sebastian Encina] My title is director of curation and
2:00
mexhibition, my role here is to find exhibitions
2:04
to put on for our audiences, and work on all the content
2:09
and scheduling all those exhibitions to be here.
2:12
[Michelle] We asked him how Minnetrista chooses exhibits.
2:15
[Sebastian] First and foremost is a theme appropriate for
2:19
Minnetrista, so if there might be a traveling exhibition of
2:22
Rembrandt, that's fantastic,
2:23
it has nothing to do with Minnetrista or us in Muncie,
2:27
that's David Owsley, Newfields, something like that,
2:29
so first and foremost, does it make sense here?
2:31
Is our community going to react to it in a positive way?
2:35
Secondly, then we look at the space, we look at the costs,
2:39
we definitely would like some exhibitions
2:41
that are just a little out of our price range,
2:43
so we wanted to make sure of that,
2:46
and just make sure that we are the right facility
2:49
for some of these spaces as well,
2:50
that we can take care of it,
2:51
we can properly show those works of art
2:54
or the history or that, and then, the space,
2:56
there are a lot of exhibitions out there
2:58
that are 5,000, 10,000 square feet,
3:00
and this is a 3,000-square-foot space,
3:03
so we can't fit those in here.
3:06
[Michelle] Why did you feel like this exhibit
3:10
was right for our community?
3:12
'Cause you said that's very important to see,
3:14
is it going to fit?
3:15
Is it going to be relevant to the community?
3:18
What are they gonna get out of it?
3:20
Why did you feel this one was important?
3:22
[Sebastian] This is so incredibly important,
3:23
and I love that you asked this question
3:25
because one of the things that I love about Minnetrista
3:28
and having been here just over two years
3:31
is how much community-focused it is,
3:33
there are so many museums out there
3:35
that still have that old mindset of,
3:38
"We're gonna put the art and people are gonna come to us,
3:41
and you should like it
3:42
just because we said you should like it,"
3:44
whereas Minnetrista is really about
3:47
that community involvement and the community buy-in,
3:51
and with an exhibition like this,
3:53
it's really important to tell some of these stories
3:56
that are just too important to forget
4:00
because so many of the stories
4:02
that are part of this exhibition are still relevant today,
4:04
they're still part of our community,
4:06
they're still being felt
4:09
and they're still having an impact on not everybody,
4:13
but a good percentage of our community,
4:15
and since Muncie is such a diverse community
4:20
with all sorts of backgrounds, this is a story
4:23
that's still incredibly important to so many people,
4:26
and this is something that Minnetrista from the get-go,
4:29
from the time that I arrived here,
4:31
was really important for us to tell
4:33
and we had to share this story with our community.
4:36
[Exhibit Audio] Mississippi native Winword Gandy
4:38
describes growing up in Mississippi in the 1960s.
4:41
(faint speaking)
4:43
[Exhibit Audio] Earliest memory I have is our parents,
4:46
and friends, and neighbors teaching us
4:49
about what we should do and what we shouldn't do.
4:52
We had to make sure that we behaved in certain ways
4:56
and there was a different world, black-and-white world,
4:59
if we walked down the sidewalk
5:01
and white man was coming toward us,
5:03
we had to look down on the ground,
5:06
and if a white woman walked down that same sidewalk,
5:09
we would have to walk out in the street,
5:11
couldn't walk down the same sidewalk.
5:13
[Michelle] Right now we're standing in front of magazine
5:18
content, different accounts of Emmett's murder,
5:23
and then, there's a warning for sensitive content,
5:27
so you see Jet Magazine, Look Magazine,
5:30
Newsweek, Life, a lot of other magazines,
5:34
and then, you can choose whether or not
5:36
you lift up magazine content that included graphic images.
5:44
(faint speaking)
5:46
[Luke] Well, and Jet Magazine,
5:47
which was primarily read by black people, had the photo,
5:52
and then, Look Magazine here, it says...
5:56
(indistinct)
5:58
[Michelle] Right and Jet Magazine actually published a photo
6:03
of Emmett's battered face,
6:08
which I'm gonna be very honest, I have not seen,
6:15
and I don't know whether...
6:17
I don't know if I can lift that up, to be honest with you,
6:24
so I'm gonna sit with that for a minute.
6:26
(faint speaking)
6:28
[Luke] Do you wanna look at the other one?
6:29
[Michelle] Yeah.
6:31
So this is from Look Magazine,
6:34
"The Shocking Story of Approved Killing in Mississippi."
6:43
[Luke] I don't think I can read most of this out loud.
6:44
[Michelle] Nope, we can't.
6:46
There's...
6:47
[Michelle] We cannot, because it's horrible.
6:49
[Luke] And it's not even the real version
6:52
and it's still ... [Michelle] Awful.
6:57
[Luke] Bad.
6:57
[Michelle] heir intention was to just whip him
7:01
and scare some sense into him.
7:04
That's a quote.
7:05
Yep.
7:07
And I know that so many exhibits,
7:09
when you think of exhibits, you think of light, fun,
7:13
"Here, we're gonna go to this exhibit," this is not that,
7:18
this centers around a horrific part of our history
7:24
as a country, why is that important
7:29
and how do you deliver it in such a way that it's...?
7:37
How do you encourage people to come and put themselves
7:41
in that position for a very good reason?
7:44
[Sebastian] That's very important, I want everybody to know,
7:46
you're not gonna come here
7:47
and come out feeling flowery,
7:50
and birds and bees, and it's all really beautiful,
7:53
it is a very difficult portion of our history,
7:57
but it's only just 70, 71 years ago that this happened,
8:00
so it's not...
8:01
Again, it's not ancient history, it's still current history,
8:04
people who were involved in this are still alive,
8:07
they're still out there in Chicago or Mississippi,
8:12
I want people to recognize that
8:14
when you come here to this exhibition, it's not going to be,
8:18
"I'm gonna walk out feeling awful and tired,"
8:23
there is gonna be some of that, but there is hope.
8:25
The part of this that's really important is out of tragedy,
8:29
Mamie Till-Mobley was able to inspire change
8:32
and that change is still happening, so what I'm hoping
8:35
is that when people leave this exhibition,
8:37
they are gonna feel hopeful, history's not pretty,
8:41
there is a lot of ugly stuff in history
8:43
and if we just ignore that just to focus on the good things,
8:46
we risk so much for our future,
8:48
we risk so much for our present, and that is...
8:53
I will say, that's cowardly
8:54
and I think that's incredibly dangerous,
8:56
and we need to be aware of everything that has happened
9:00
to get us to where we are,
9:02
the norms that we have, the laws that we have,
9:07
the policies that we have, they came from somewhere,
9:10
and that's usually an ugly past
9:12
that made the change to be where we are,
9:15
it's not perfect, there's a lot that we can do,
9:18
but it's better to go one mile than try...
9:21
Than wreck it because we haven't gone 100 miles yet,
9:23
so let's start off a little bit,
9:25
let's learn about this history, let's not forget it,
9:28
through it all, whatever people's feelings are
9:33
about race relations or about certain demographics,
9:36
this is a 14-year-old child.
9:38
[Michelle] That's right.
9:38
[Sebastian] This is a kid.
9:40
[Exhibit] Mamie's Ripple for Justice Show begins in 1 min.
9:43
[Michelle] We are now standing in an area
9:45
that at first seems picturesque, right, Luke?
9:51
We're...
9:53
It's video of the Tallahatchie River in Mississippi
9:57
and we're surrounded on kind of, you know, on three sides
10:00
by this beautiful view, and then, you look ahead
10:05
and you realize that this is where Emmett's body
10:10
was taken and dumped in 1955,
10:21
and then, the sign that was installed in 2018,
10:27
2018, by the way, that was vandalized
10:31
a little more than a month after it was installed.
10:36
Bullets were shot.
10:39
(gun firing)
10:42
[Exhibit] Our signs and ones like them have been stolen,
10:45
thrown in the river, replaced, shot,
10:47
replaced again and shot again.
10:49
Every time they tear one down, we're gonna put one back up.
10:54
We're never gonna...
10:55
(indistinct)
10:56
[Sebastian] This is full immersion into that story,
10:59
and it doesn't just stop in 1955,
11:01
it continues into the 1960s,
11:02
it continues to 2000, to the 2020s,
11:05
and so, it gives people a greater sense of the entire story
11:10
and how this impacted so many people.
11:15
[Exhibit] History is history.
11:17
Emmett Hill's story is in the past,
11:20
but what matters now, what are you going to do?
11:23
(dramatic orchestral music)
11:26
What are you gonna do?
11:28
(upbeat funk music)
11:32
[Kara] Emmett Till and Mamie Till-Mobley: Let the World See
11:36
is open at Minnetrista Museum & Gardens through April 12th.
11:40
It's recommended for visitors age 10 and up.
11:42
(upbeat funk music)
11:52
[Michelle] This is "Pop of Culture," I'm Michelle Kinsey.
11:55
[Kara] And I'm Kara DuQuette.
11:57
We're coming to you from Audio One in the IPR studios,
12:01
but for the next few minutes,
12:02
we're going to take a seat at NPR'S Tiny Desk.
12:05
[Michelle] The 2026 Tiny Desk Contest is open,
12:10
and here to tell us all about it,
12:13
to judges, to experts, to people perfectly familiar,
12:19
very familiar with this contest,
12:21
Robin Hilton and Anamaria Sayre,
12:24
thank you so much for joining us,
12:25
I will try not to fangirl too hard.
12:28
(people laughing)
12:29
[Anamaria] What an introduction, Robin, are we experts?
12:33
I don't know.
12:34
[Robin] I don't know, I wonder that every day.
12:37
[Anamaria] Robin and I are just -
12:38
(people laughing)
12:39
[Robin] But thank you for having us, Michelle.
12:40
[Anamaria] ...two clueless. (laughs)
12:42
[Michelle] Yeah, uh-uh, no, not buying it.
12:43
[Anamaria] I wonder every day, "How did I get this job?"
12:46
[Michelle] I know, lucky you, right? (laughs)
12:48
[Anamaria] Yeah, seriously. (laughs)
12:50
[Robin] Someday, they're gonna find out.
12:52
(people laughing)
12:53
[Michelle] I can't imagine that there are people out there
12:56
who are not familiar with Tiny Desk
12:58
or the Tiny Desk contest,
13:01
but go ahead and fill us in on what the contest is.
13:06
[Robin] Go ahead, Ana.
13:08
[Anamaria] Okay, the difficult answer,
13:10
the Contest is basically just an opportunity
13:14
for any unsigned independent artists
13:17
across the United States to enter a piece of their art
13:21
for the chance to play their very own Tiny Desk.
13:26
[Michelle] Which is awesome,
13:27
and so, this has been going on how long?
13:29
When did the contest start?
13:31
[Robin] I think around 2014,
13:33
so, you know, a little over a decade ago.
13:36
[Michelle] Yeah, that's a lot of submissions, right?
13:39
[Anamaria] Well, I mean, yeah, I can't...
13:40
I think we got 7,500 last year, 7,000...
13:45
Roughly 7,500 entries, and every year..
13:49
We've set a new record
13:50
for the number of entries every year,
13:52
so yeah, many, many, many thousands of entries.
13:56
[Michelle] Wow, what is the process like,
13:59
weeding through all of those entries?
14:02
[Robin] We dub them to VHS tapes,
14:05
and then, we throw 'em down a flight of stairs
14:08
and whatever tape is on the top step...
14:11
(people laughing)
14:13
[Anamaria] We all sit in the room
14:15
and Robin makes a couple stupid jokes like that,
14:17
and we kick him out and we actually get the work done.
14:20
[Robin] No, it's a army of people on the team who literally
14:25
we watch all of the entries
14:27
and we start winnowing them down,
14:29
the first pass is just looking for things like,
14:32
do they meet the minimum requirements?
14:34
Are they at least 18 years old? Are they from the U.S.?
14:37
Is there a desk in the video somewhere?
14:39
You have to play behind a desk, things like that,
14:41
and then, we take another pass
14:43
and we just start winnowing it down,
14:46
and over the course of several weeks, we'll get to the point
14:50
where there's maybe, you know, a couple dozen
14:53
that we're all kind of circling,
14:56
and then, within a few weeks after that,
14:59
then we arrive at a winner.
15:02
[Michelle] So each of you, Robin and Anamaria,
15:05
talk a little bit about what makes an act,
15:08
a band stand out to you as you are watching the videos?
15:14
[Anamaria] It's so heady, and feely, and arty,
15:17
but really it's just the thing
15:19
that I think makes me feel something,
15:23
and, you know, that can mean
15:25
that it's something really impressive musically,
15:28
or has a really interesting arrangement,
15:31
or incorporates cool instruments,
15:33
or it's something that it's just a beautiful,
15:36
cutting, emotional voice in a guitar
15:38
that I can't stop thinking about,
15:40
and that's really what it's about,
15:41
is finding something that feels unique
15:43
and like only that person or that band who's doing it
15:46
could really be doing it in the way that they're doing it,
15:48
and that more people need to hear it.
15:50
[Robin] It's a gut reaction, really, more than...
15:52
It's not like we're looking for a bunch of boxes
15:55
that we're trying to check,
15:57
it's really just a gut reaction, an emotional reaction,
16:01
like Anamaria said, I'm looking for something
16:05
that will make me stop what I'm doing and pay attention
16:08
because I'll listen first blindly, I won't watch the video,
16:12
if it grabs me, then I'll start watching,
16:16
and if I find I just can't stop watching,
16:19
if I can't look away, then there's something there.
16:22
[Michelle] Mm-hmm.
16:23
Robin, give me an example
16:24
of, like, the bands that come to mind
16:26
when you think about the ones that have grabbed you
16:29
and you...
16:31
You know, you can't get away from.
16:33
[Robin] Well, I think of someone like Tank and the Bangas,
16:36
their entry, I remember that was one year
16:40
where we all knew almost immediately when we saw it,
16:44
I remember with their entry,
16:46
I was probably 10 seconds into it
16:48
and I thought, "This may be the one,"
16:49
it was just instantly grabby, but then, I have...
16:53
Then we get artists like...
16:56
Last year, there was one who didn't win,
16:57
but I really fell for, an artist named Ephsee,
17:02
E-P-H-S-E-E, Ephsee, who entered this really incredible song
17:06
called "Malachi the Uber Driver,"
17:08
and I was listening, not watching,
17:10
and I was maybe a minute into it or so and I thought,
17:12
"Wait a minute, what are they saying?"
17:13
And I started paying attention more to the story
17:17
that they're telling in the song,
17:18
and I went back and listened again,
17:20
and within, like, 30 seconds, I was sobbing,
17:22
it was so beautiful and...
17:23
[Michelle] Oh, wow.
17:24
[Robin] Yeah, they got very far in the process.
17:26
[Michelle] Wow. Anamaria, what about you?
17:31
[Anamaria] Oh, my goodness.
17:34
I don't know, this is my first year
17:35
officially judging in this sense,
17:37
what I've done in previous years...
17:39
I know, big year.
17:41
What I've done in previous years
17:43
is done kind of, like, that initial filtering work,
17:45
which I actually really enjoy also,
17:48
you come across a lot of...
17:50
Robin, you probably miss these -
17:52
[Robin] A lot of them.
17:53
[Ana] ...Because they never make it to your desk,
17:55
but wow, there's some really fun ones,
17:57
I mean, you can -
17:58
[Robin] It's funny too, like, those...
17:59
Yeah, there are some of the best ones,
18:02
like, they're never gonna win,
18:03
but they're such a joy to watch. Yeah.
18:06
[Michelle] They're passed around among everybody like
18:07
Yeah, we got to do this one
18:09
[Anamaria] No, I was gonna say, my family always knows
18:12
when it's, like, Tiny Desk Contest judging time
18:14
'cause all of a sudden, I'm just sending all these links,
18:17
I'm like, "You guys, you have to see this." (laughs)
18:21
So yeah, it's been a lot...
18:23
A whole spread of 'em that I...
18:25
Now, I can't remember
18:26
'cause it was a beautiful, joyous moment
18:28
of seeing them, and then, I...
18:29
They went away.
18:30
[Michelle] Yeah, so while we're encouraging musicians
18:34
to apply for the contest,
18:37
talk a little bit about what they get
18:39
out of a win at the Tiny Desk Contest.
18:44
[Anamaria] I think most importantly, they get to play
18:46
their very own actual Tiny Desk concert, it's a real one...
18:49
[Michelle] I mean, you can really stop right there,
18:51
I mean, isn't that enough?
18:52
My goodness, that's fantastic.
18:53
[Anamaria] I know, I think that kind of is enough.
18:55
(people laughing)
18:56
It's not...
18:57
You know, it's not a special off-to-the-side one,
19:00
it's just a normal...
19:01
the same one that Justin Timberlake did,
19:02
and that Usher did, and that Bad Bunny did,
19:04
it's a Tiny Desk, and then, we take them on a 10-city tour
19:09
and they also get paired up with a mentor
19:11
to kind of help them navigate, you know,
19:13
where they're at in their career and where they wanna go,
19:15
and I think that's a pretty key part of it too.
19:18
[Michelle] Oh, nice.
19:19
That's very cool, that's very cool,
19:21
I think one of the ones that I remember the most recently,
19:25
you know, like, their big Tiny Desk moment
19:28
was Phil Harmonic.
19:30
That was an amazing...
19:31
I mean, wow,
19:33
and it translated really well to a national audience,
19:35
you would not know that this band
19:37
had not been, you know, doing this at a very high level
19:40
for a long time.
19:42
[Robin] Yeah, I mean, that's true of a lot of the artists,
19:45
they're unsigned, but a lot of them
19:46
have been working really hard at this for a long time.
19:49
[Michelle] Yeah, absolutely, so what do acts need to do
19:55
in order to apply for the contest?
19:58
I know there's a quiz now on the website
20:01
to see if you're eligible.
20:04
[Anamaria] Yes you can walk through that quiz if you want,
20:07
just to make sure that, you know,
20:09
it makes sense for you to enter,
20:11
but for the most part, the qualifications are pretty simple
20:16
in terms of what they need to have,
20:19
we want them, for sure, to be unsigned,
20:22
unfortunately, we don't take international entries,
20:25
so they do have to be within the United States,
20:27
but otherwise, yeah, it's just submitting one original song,
20:31
have to include a desk in that video somewhere,
20:34
but it should be pretty simple, hopefully.
20:38
[Robin] And don't worry about whether or not
20:40
it's super professionally shot or anything,
20:42
or whether you've got a big backing band, or...
20:45
It can be you by yourself with just your guitar
20:48
or whatever instrument you play in your bedroom
20:51
and you can shoot it on your phone.
20:53
[Michelle] Oh, that's awesome.
20:54
Well, thank you both so much for taking the time
20:57
to talk to us about the Tiny Desk Contest,
21:01
and I'm so jealous of your job
21:05
after it closes on February 9th
21:07
when you get to sort through, what, 8,000 this time?
21:10
9,000 videos? [Robin] Maybe. (laugh)
21:12
We'll see. [Michelle] Yeah. (laughs)
21:13
Well, best of luck finding the new winner
21:16
of Tiny Desk Contest, thank you so much again.
21:19
[Anamaria] Thank you, Michelle. [Robin] Thank you.
21:21
[Michelle] I'm Michelle Kinsey.
21:22
[Kara] And I'm Kara DuQuette.
21:24
Whether you work at a tiny desk or a warehouse,
21:27
you can bring "Pop of Culture" with you.
21:29
Pick up the "Pop of Culture" podcast
21:31
by indianapublicradio.org,
21:34
on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
21:37
(relaxed funk music)
21:45
(relaxed funk music continues)
21:48
[Michelle] Jeffrey Gibson is a Choctaw and Cherokee artist
21:51
known for his bold use of color, pattern and materials,
21:55
his work blends indigenous history,
21:57
contemporary culture and personal identity
22:00
to create art that's both joyful and deeply thoughtful.
22:04
Jeffrey Gibson will be the featured Arts Alive speaker
22:07
at Ball State University this February,
22:10
but first, he's here to talk with us on "Pop of Culture,"
22:14
Jeffrey, thank you so much for joining us.
22:17
[Jeffrey] Absolutely, thank you for having me.
22:19
[Michelle] So this college campus thing,
22:21
is this something you do on the regular,
22:23
visit college campuses and talk about your art?
22:27
[Jeffrey] You know, I used to do a lot more of it,
22:28
I have not done it in a couple of years, really,
22:32
I've also taught for a very long time
22:34
and I also took about a...
22:35
Almost a three-year break.
22:37
[Michelle] Ah, from speaking engagements as a whole, or...?
22:41
[Jeffrey] Mainly from teaching but speaking engagements,
22:43
it's been very busy the past couple of years,
22:45
so I really slowed down on speaking.
22:48
[Michelle] So for the Ball State event, what are you looking
22:52
forward to sharing with the Ball State audience?
22:56
[Jeffrey] You know, I actually really like young people
23:00
and college-aged people, I'm...
23:03
Turning 54 in March,
23:05
and so, I really feel the generational divide
23:08
and I know I experience the world differently,
23:10
and I actually...
23:11
I really enjoy hearing what they're thinking,
23:14
what they're paying attention to and what they're making.
23:18
[Michelle] Interesting, so you like kinda the give-and-take,
23:20
so the Q&A portion will probably be
23:23
the most interesting part to you?
23:25
[Jeffrey] Yeah, I mean, I think especially...
23:27
You know, I'm a painter and a sculptor,
23:29
I work with my hands and I think...
23:31
You know, I'm not someone who uses AI,
23:33
I'm not somebody who uses a lot of digital technology,
23:36
and so, thinking about how they're thinking about making,
23:41
how they're thinking about art
23:42
and the impact of art experiences,
23:44
the art world's very different now
23:45
than it was when I was in my 20s.
23:48
[Michelle] So as an artist these days,
23:50
with all of these different vehicles
23:54
or ways to get your art out there,
23:55
how do you break through the noise?
23:59
[Jeffrey] I personally continue to advise people,
24:02
one, I think being an artist is extremely difficult,
24:05
it's a really hard thing to do, no one...
24:09
And I tell people this all the time,
24:11
if you close your studio, no one's gonna come
24:14
and ask you to open it back up again necessarily,
24:16
you know, you really have to push it every day
24:20
by your choice that you're going to get up
24:22
and make something,
24:23
and unfortunately, it can't be dependent on an audience,
24:26
it can't be dependent on a buyer,
24:29
it is one of those things which you really have to believe
24:33
that what you're doing is important and valuable,
24:35
and worth your time and effort.
24:37
[Michelle] Ah, so talk to me about the early years,
24:40
when did you realize that this was going to be your path,
24:43
no matter how difficult?
24:46
(people laughing)
24:48
[Jeffrey] Any day now, any day. No, it's...
24:51
But it's kinda true, I mean, I think...
24:54
I spent so many years,
24:56
and I'm talking, you know, when I finished high school,
24:59
I did not know...
25:02
I knew I wanted to be an artist,
25:03
I didn't know how to say that out loud,
25:05
so I ended up studying anthropology, archeology
25:08
and my third major was painting,
25:10
and I was kicked out of the University of Maryland,
25:13
I was asked to not return because I wasn't going to class,
25:17
and I ended up going to a community college
25:19
and it was there that I really felt the freedom
25:22
to just pursue what I wanted to,
25:24
and I was in the studios all the time,
25:27
became friends with all of my studio art faculty,
25:30
and then, from there,
25:31
transferred to the Art Institute of Chicago,
25:33
and that was sort of...
25:37
That was the beginning
25:38
of, you know, this kind of independence
25:40
of making and being in a community of other makers,
25:45
then you go to New York
25:46
and you hash it out every single day,
25:49
and I was broke for a number of years
25:51
and nearly filed bankruptcy,
25:54
and worked 70, 80 hours a week,
25:58
and you're so in it that it's difficult to see yourself
26:03
from any kind of third perspective, so then, any small win,
26:08
you know, an exhibition, a small sale here and there,
26:11
somebody who believes in you, it's...
26:13
For me, it was always enough to continue, you know,
26:16
and there's been numerous times
26:18
when I was almost going to walk away,
26:20
and I really couldn't find satisfaction doing anything else
26:24
and I would find myself making again,
26:27
painting again, drawing again and imagining,
26:31
and then, I would come back to it,
26:32
and it was really in 2012, I kind of imagined
26:38
this was gonna be my last exhibition I was going to do,
26:41
and it was at that show
26:43
that two commercial galleries approached me
26:45
and I got my first critic's pick in New York City, so...
26:49
And I was 40 at the time,
26:50
so, you know, it's sort of like, from there,
26:54
I still felt like, you know, you're running a marathon,
26:58
I would say probably the pinnacle, of course,
27:00
is, you know, being in Venice and representing the U.S.,
27:05
yeah I couldn't really deny that,
27:07
"Okay, I've made it, you know,
27:09
I finished the first leg of the marathon."
27:14
[Michelle] Let's talk about the Venice Biennale in 2024,
27:18
you were the first Indigenous artist
27:20
to represent the United States.
27:23
I mean, just that sentence,
27:24
let's just let that hang there for a minute, that's huge.
27:28
[Jeffrey] Yeah
27:29
[Michelle] Tell me how that felt and how it felt to be there
27:31
representing the United States.
27:35
[Jeffrey] It felt...
27:36
You know, to be quite honest, it's overwhelming,
27:40
the excitement of it kinda creeps in in bits and pieces,
27:45
but there's so much work to do
27:47
and it's on such a public, international stage,
27:51
the pressure is...
27:53
For me at least, felt really high, really high,
27:56
and It was a large team that was assisting me
28:01
to complete everything and to get the installation up.
28:05
Really, the satisfaction of that happened very recently,
28:10
you know, after it had come down, after the exhibition,
28:14
I traveled to the Broad, we did a ton of press,
28:18
I did a lot of public speaking specific to the Biennale,
28:23
but, you know, you're...
28:24
It's like you're building something so intently
28:27
that you don't have any opportunity to look up, you know?
28:30
And so, it's really only in retrospect,
28:33
and especially after the catalog came out,
28:35
which is a beautiful catalog and we worked with
28:38
an independent designer named Dylan Fracareta,
28:41
and he did an incredible job of really assembling,
28:45
like, a kind of yearbook that really walked through
28:49
every part of that installation
28:50
and the community that helped make it happen,
28:54
that was really a moment where I can absorb
28:56
how huge it was, how grand of an experience it was.
29:01
[Michelle] Talk a little bit about the preparation of that,
29:04
and maybe that kind of goes into, you know, every time
29:08
you're putting together an installation or an exhibition,
29:11
what is that...?
29:12
What's that process like, from kind of idea
29:15
to when you finally say, "Okay, this is ready?"
29:19
[Jeffrey] Yeah, well, I originally had a first iteration
29:23
of a proposal that I went to Venice,
29:26
I traveled there to look at the pavilion,
29:28
to walk through it, and I knew in the first five minutes
29:33
of being in the building that my proposal was wrong,
29:35
it would not work,
29:37
it didn't make any sense to have it there,
29:38
and so, I came back to my studio and I sat down,
29:43
and I also realized, you know, this wasn't an exhibition
29:46
that was happening in the U.S., this was an exhibition
29:48
happening for an international audience,
29:50
and I grew up living abroad,
29:52
part of my life was abroad in Germany and Korea,
29:56
and I went to school in the UK,
29:58
and so, I think this understanding of my subject matter
30:01
from an international perspective
30:03
was something that really pushed me
30:06
to rethink what I wanted to show,
30:09
and I decided to look back at my kind of history of work,
30:15
like, the previous decade,
30:16
like, what are the pieces that I had made
30:18
that I felt really engaged audiences in a way
30:22
that I wanted to engage an audience at the Biennale?
30:26
The challenge was really to cohere it, right?
30:28
Into an exhibition experience for people,
30:32
but also something that I felt was, for many people,
30:36
an introduction to my work, and also, something...
30:40
I think, being Native American,
30:43
something that I could feel really proud of
30:46
to have Native American people here
30:49
be able to see through images or through video clips
30:52
and understand that I was really there
30:56
on behalf of people other than just myself.
31:00
[Michelle] Absolutely, and I love that
31:01
because then, I think your art resonates with more people,
31:05
it opens it up to more people.
31:07
[Jeffrey] Yeah, yeah, I do think that, you know,
31:09
I think whenever you're talking about
31:11
a very specific culture,
31:13
people can become afraid to speak about it
31:16
for fear of getting it wrong
31:18
or for fear of offending somebody,
31:20
that's never anything that I've either been afraid of
31:23
or have I tried to discourage in people,
31:27
I'm much more of a fan of, you know, ask questions,
31:30
talk to people about it, share your experiences.
31:33
[Michelle] So you are a firm believer, and I know
31:36
I've read it before in some of your interviews,
31:38
that you really believe art can bring people together.
31:42
[Jeffrey] Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I think art...
31:45
You know, there was a comment made sometime during...
31:48
I think it was during COVID
31:49
about, you know, imagining the world without art
31:51
having been a part of our histories,
31:54
and that to me is just...
31:55
I mean, we're including architecture, and music,
31:57
and sculpture, and painting, and illustration,
31:59
and writing, and storytelling, and I just...
32:03
It feels...
32:04
When you put it in that perspective, it feels like something
32:07
which is so inherent to being human.
32:09
[Michelle] Yes.
32:10
Oh, yes, absolutely, very well put,
32:13
so that brings me to this question,
32:15
how are you feeling about
32:17
the state of the arts these days?
32:19
It seems, you know, every day, there's another cut
32:23
to some sort of arts funding here, there and everywhere,
32:27
how do you feel as an artist seeing this unfold?
32:33
[Jeffrey] Truthfully, I think about
32:34
why somebody would want to discourage expression,
32:39
I think that I wish I could impart to those people
32:45
who maybe don't understand its importance or its impact
32:49
that it really is such a rare situation
32:57
that is one of acceptance and allowance,
33:02
and I understand it can feel intimidating,
33:04
you know, I remember being a young artist in New York City
33:07
and going to openings and feeling like
33:09
you were trying to introduce yourself to art communities,
33:12
it is so intimidating.
33:14
You feel like there's this world
33:16
that everyone is in on the secret and you don't have a clue,
33:19
but I will say that once you start asking questions,
33:23
and really, the price of admission
33:25
is just choosing to engage,
33:28
and once you start engaging, people are very friendly
33:32
and very open to other people
33:37
coming in with a different background, I just...
33:40
I've never experienced another kind of community like it
33:43
and I wish that for anybody, to be quite honest,
33:46
I wish everybody could experience that.
33:50
[Michelle] Ditto.
33:51
One final question, Jeffrey,
33:53
what's bringing you joy in the studio these days?
33:56
What are you working on?
33:58
[Jeffrey] You know, it's a challenging time, I think,
34:00
to try to think about what it means to make something
34:03
and whether we make something that is...
34:07
You know, illustrates a reflection
34:08
of the times we're living in
34:10
or do we think about bigger issues, bigger topics,
34:15
for me, I'm really enjoying thinking about time
34:22
and how time functions in terms of how we mark time,
34:27
how we imagine the limits of time,
34:31
or for some people, the limitlessness of time
34:35
and how it relates to the environment,
34:37
and when I say environment,
34:38
I mean everything from, like, the local environment
34:40
to the global environment to the universal environment,
34:43
I think there's so many things that we don't understand,
34:48
and for me, there's something very comfortable
34:50
about feeling so small in the face of this immense universe,
34:55
there's something very comforting about that
34:58
for me right now.
35:00
[Michelle] Jeffrey, thank you so much
35:01
for taking time to talk with me today,
35:04
really looking forward to your visit in February
35:06
to Ball State University.
35:08
[Jeffrey] Great, I look forward to it. Thank you.
35:10
[Michelle] Thank you.
35:11
Jeffrey Gibson will speak at Spruce Hall February 4th.
35:15
The event is open to the public.
35:16
(upbeat funk music)
35:24
(upbeat funk music continues)
35:33
[Kara] We spoke to artists working in all kinds of mediums.
35:37
[Michelle] Absolutely, sculpture, iron,
35:42
huge pieces of public art, what else?
35:44
[Kara] Rug hooking...
35:45
[Michelle] Rug hooking, that's right...
35:46
[Kara] Silk painting...
35:47
[Michelle] Yes!
35:48
But this time, for the first time,
35:49
we've asked a balloon artist, "What are you working on?"
35:53
[Maya] Today on WAYWO I have Samantha Rowe, a balloon artist
35:57
who owns Blank Space Balloon Art in Modoc, Indiana.
36:00
What are you working on, Samantha?
36:02
[Samantha] Oh, great, thanks for having me,
36:03
I'm so excited to be here.
36:04
[Maya] Of course.
36:06
[Samantha] So right now, we are planning
36:08
graduation open houses for people,
36:11
I've got some Valentine's Day specials...
36:14
[Maya] So sweet.
36:15
So I made a bouquet out of heart balloons,
36:18
if you can imagine flowers in a bouquet,
36:21
but switch the flowers out with heart balloons.
36:24
[Maya] That's adorable.
36:26
- We...
36:26
I added little butterflies in one of them
36:29
and they're kind of wrapped in floral paper,
36:31
we're also doing some senior night options for people,
36:35
so it's just a small little stack of balloons
36:38
on top of each other, with a basketball for example,
36:42
I have the cutest little foil number balloons
36:44
that go on the basketballs just to add a little pop
36:47
to the senior night tables.
36:50
Virtually anything that anybody asks me to do,
36:52
I am 100% up for the challenge of making new things
36:56
and creating art out of balloons.
36:58
[Maya] That's awesome to hear
36:59
that you're willing to, like, push yourself
37:01
and expand new horizons of balloon art.
37:03
[Samantha] Yes.
37:05
[Maya] Balloon sculpture is your specialty,
37:07
what is your favorite sculpture you've ever made?
37:09
[Samantha] Oh, my goodness, so the hair salon that I go to,
37:12
their name is Deep Roots Salon, and my mom was like,
37:15
"It would be really cool if you figured out
37:17
how to make a tree out of balloons," and I was like,
37:20
"I don't know if I can do that, but we'll see," so I did,
37:24
so she recently celebrated a big milestone in her business,
37:28
and so, I made a tree out of the balloons,
37:30
I would say that was my first time
37:32
actually sculpting something,
37:34
and then, from there, it kind of took off,
37:36
so since that point, I've made a palm tree,
37:40
I made a giant diamond ring, which was one of my favorites,
37:45
the biggest one that we just wrapped up last November
37:48
was an Eiffel Tower with a water fountain
37:52
in front of the Eiffel Tower,
37:54
and then, we had streetlights that were around the room,
37:57
it was incredible.
37:59
[Maya] Was that a project that made you feel really proud
38:01
of being a balloon artist?
38:03
[Samantha] Yes, it was something that challenged me,
38:06
it was something...
38:07
You know, when the organization came to me
38:10
and asked if I could do it,
38:12
I was like, "Yes, I will figure it out,"
38:15
what started small in my head
38:17
ended up being about 15 feet tall, so it was...
38:19
[Maya] (laughs) Wow. Really the Eiffel Tower.
38:23
[Samantha] Yes it was bigger than I imagined it would be,
38:27
but it also needed to fill the space in the room,
38:29
so I was very happy with how it turned out.
38:32
[Maya] That's amazing.
38:33
What would you say were some challenges
38:34
you faced while trying to do something so large?
38:37
[Samantha] I think figuring out the framework
38:41
is maybe not my strong suit, so I have family that help me,
38:46
so my dad helps me transport,
38:48
especially with the Eiffel Tower,
38:50
I took my idea to my husband
38:52
and he can basically weld anything that I want,
38:55
so he was like, "Okay, let me think about this,"
38:57
and he built my frame bigger than I needed it to be,
39:01
but it ended up working out
39:02
because then, I could just wrap the frame with the balloons,
39:05
and once I got going and figured out my method,
39:08
then it's super quick in my mind
39:11
for somebody that works with balloons all the time,
39:13
now, for somebody that didn't work with balloons,
39:15
they would be like, "No thank you,"
39:17
but it's an art, definitely, and it's a learning curve
39:21
because you have to have the right balloons
39:23
and you have to have them inflated to the right amount,
39:27
so, like, if they overinflate, they'll pop,
39:31
so you have to under-inflate everything
39:32
to give room for expansions,
39:34
I've definitely learned a lot of things along the way
39:36
that I did not know before.
39:37
[Maya] So when it comes to, like, installing
39:39
such a large sculpture, do you bring in the base,
39:42
and then, you build it there,
39:43
or do you transport it with the balloons on it?
39:46
[Samantha] Kind of both, so if I can transport
39:50
everything made ahead of time,
39:51
I try to do that as much as possible
39:53
just because it saves me time on-site,
39:55
so the Eiffel Tower, for example,
39:57
I had four separate legs, and then, I had a top,
40:01
so I had five pieces,
40:02
so I had my top completely ready to go,
40:05
I had my legs maybe 75% of the way prepped,
40:08
so all I had to do when I got there was assemble,
40:11
and then, I was able to finish it once it was assembled.
40:14
[Maya] That's really cool.
40:16
It's something that I've really never heard about before,
40:18
so when I saw your website and saw the huge Eiffel Tower,
40:21
I was like, "Wow, she means business." (laughs)
40:23
[Samantha] You know, yes, I don't do anything halfway,
40:28
I like to go above and beyond for people
40:31
because I don't want them to be disappointed,
40:33
like, I want...
40:34
I like setting that up,
40:35
and then, going and getting them and being like,
40:37
"Okay, I'm done, I'm ready for you to see it,"
40:39
because I wanna step back and watch their reaction
40:43
to what I've promised.
40:45
[Maya] That's really cool.
40:46
I've also seen that you do things like arches, tabletops,
40:49
and you mentioned your senior stacks,
40:50
how do you decide how to arrange the balloons,
40:52
what colors to use...?
40:54
[Samantha] I work with the customer, first of all,
40:57
and I ask them, you know, "What are your preferences?
40:59
Do you have color choices?
41:01
Do you have ideas that you've liked?"
41:03
And I have them send me those ideas.
41:05
Some people will say, "Here's what I've seen,"
41:07
and I'll kind of mock something up
41:09
so they have some sort of visual
41:11
before they see the final product,
41:13
other people will say, "You know what?
41:15
I don't care, here's the theme,
41:17
I trust you, do what you want with it."
41:19
[Maya] I bet that's fun.
41:20
[Samantha] I love those because then I get to play,
41:24
and I'm blessed, I work out of my home,
41:26
so I'm very blessed that we have a full basement
41:28
that has kind of turned into my studio...
41:30
[Maya] Oh, nice.
41:31
So I can just go downstairs anytime
41:32
and I like to call it therapy
41:34
because it has kind of turned into therapy,
41:37
but I just play with balloons and I figure things out,
41:40
it took me a couple days to figure out
41:41
how to do the balloon fountain,
41:44
so that was trial-and-error a few different times,
41:47
but I'm fortunate enough that I can do that
41:49
and not mess it up the first time.
41:51
[Maya] What led you to making balloons in the first place?
41:54
I'm curious.
41:55
[Samantha] Oh, my goodness, so it was kind of by accident,
41:58
I have one daughter
42:00
and I always have gone over-the-top for her birthdays,
42:03
and so, she was turning 16,
42:05
we're big Taylor Swift fans in our house,
42:07
so we did an Eras Tour birthday party...
42:09
[Maya] Oh, nice.
42:10
[Samantha] And I got this wild idea,
42:12
I was like, "Let's make a balloon arch,"
42:14
never done it before, ordered the cheapest stuff,
42:17
it took me three days to build half an arch
42:21
and I was like, "This is wild,
42:23
why did I decide to do this?"
42:24
(person laughing)
42:25
Well, then people came over and they loved it...
42:27
[Maya] I'm sure.
42:27
[Samantha] And then, my neighbor was like,
42:28
"Hey, that's amazing, if I order the supplies,
42:30
will you do my graduation open house?"
42:32
Because she was graduating that year
42:34
and I was like, "Yeah, no problem,"
42:35
so we did that, I posted a picture on my Facebook
42:39
and it kind of just went wild from there.
42:42
People started messaging me, they were like,
42:43
"Hey, we don't like working with balloons,
42:45
we would seriously pay you to do this for us,"
42:49
and I was like, "Okay, could I do this
42:52
as, like, a thing, as a side hustle?"
42:55
And it's kind of expanded from there,
42:57
I've been able to meet so many people,
43:00
been able to create so many things, bring so much happiness
43:04
and, you know, really up people's photos
43:07
when they're taking them and they fall in love
43:09
with their backdrops and those memories,
43:13
it just kind of has spiraled.
43:15
[Maya] I think that's really touching,
43:16
like, the way you've made it
43:17
kind of a community support, as well.
43:21
So what I'm hearing
43:22
is balloons are your love language. (laughs)
43:23
[Samantha] Kind of, yes.
43:25
[Maya] What's a balloon sculpture
43:27
you would love to build in the future?
43:28
Like, do you have a dream sculpture you'd like to make?
43:32
[Samantha] A rainbow.
43:33
[Maya] Oh, that's so cute, I would love to see that.
43:36
[Samantha] I keep seeing them,
43:39
that's something I have been wanting to try to make,
43:41
also a birthday cake, a giant birthday cake
43:44
is also something that I wanna try to make.
43:46
[Maya] Would you make it with, like, a slice out of it,
43:48
or would you make it, like, a decor...?
43:50
[Samantha] I would make a decor, like, a three-tiered...
43:52
[Maya] Wow, yes.
43:53
[Samantha] A three-tiered birthday cake,
43:54
maybe even with a hole in the middle
43:56
for somebody to jump out of.
43:58
[Maya] That would be fun,
43:59
and, like, it has a little top. (laughs)
44:01
[Samantha] Yes, yes.
44:02
[Maya] Where could listeners find your balloon art
44:04
if they wanted to check it out themselves?
44:05
[Samantha] So I am on Facebook, if you go to Facebook
44:08
and you search for "Blank Space Balloon Art,"
44:11
my business page should pop up,
44:13
I also have an email that's blankspaceballoonart@gmail.com.
44:18
[Maya] Thank you so much, I've been so happy
44:19
to have you pop up on the show today.
44:22
[Samantha] Thank you for having me, this is so exciting.
44:26
[Michelle] It's that time, Kara.
44:27
[Kara] Oh, yeah.
44:28
[Michelle] Time for the arts calendar, you know what?
44:30
You don't have to go all the way to Shipshewana
44:34
for arts and crafts and things, oh, no, no,
44:37
Shipshewana on the Road
44:39
stops by the Delaware County fairgrounds
44:41
Saturday and Sunday, January 31st and February 1st,
44:44
check out crafts, gifts and food
44:46
from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Saturday
44:48
and 10:00 AM to 4:00 PM on Sunday.
44:51
[Kara] Nice.
44:52
[Michelle] and this one is going to be so apropos.
44:55
[Kara] It is indeed.
44:57
[Michelle] The Meltdown Winter Ice Festival is this weekend,
45:01
January 30th through 31st in Richmond.
45:04
The City Center will come alive
45:06
with more than 20,000 pounds of frozen fun for all ages
45:10
with one-of-a-kind sculptures.
45:12
Watch an ice cream eating contest,
45:14
cheer on your favorite team
45:16
during the Meltdown Throwdown ice-carving contest, and...
45:20
And finish the evening on Saturday with fireworks.
45:24
[Kara] I love fireworks.
45:25
[Michelle] Yes, I'm cold, I just had to shiver up my spine,
45:27
but in a good way, 'cause that sounds like a fun event.
45:29
[Kara] Fire and ice.
45:30
[Michelle] That's right,
45:31
Shining Star: A Tribute to Earth, Wind and Fire
45:34
will perform Saturday, January 31st
45:36
at the Gas City Performing Arts Center,
45:38
it's going to be a boogie wonderland,
45:41
see what I did there, Kara?
45:42
And A Loving Spoonful will perform Saturday, January 31st
45:45
at the Paramount Theater in Anderson,
45:47
not a cover band this time, the real deal.
45:50
(Kara laughing)
45:51
[Kara] The Muncie Children's Museum
45:52
is presenting the show Reptiles Around the World
45:56
at 10:00 AM Saturday, January 31st.
45:59
Scales and Tails will bring two reptiles
46:02
from each continent for you to meet.
46:05
There will also be fun facts, games and more.
46:09
[Michelle] I love me some reptiles. That sounds great.
46:13
The Tom Shaw Memorial Concert
46:15
featuring Ball State Jazz Ensembles will be February 3rd
46:18
at Sursa Performance Hall at Ball State.
46:20
The concert begins at 7:30 PM
46:23
and will include standard jazz favorites
46:25
and original compositions
46:26
in honor of BSU alum and trumpet player Tom Shaw.
46:31
[Kara] And don't forget that February 5th is First Thursday
46:35
in downtown Muncy from 5:00 to 8:00 PM,
46:38
check out Maker's Market
46:40
and hear original music at the songwriter sessions,
46:44
you know a little bit about that.
46:45
[Michelle] A few things, yeah.
46:46
(Kara laughing)
46:47
[Kara] More at downtownmuncie.org.
46:49
[Michelle] If you have an event, let us know
46:51
at indianapublicradio.org/contact,
46:54
then click "Pop of Culture."
46:55
(upbeat electronic music)
47:04
(upbeat electronic music continues)
47:12
[Luke] Support for "Pop of Culture"
47:13
comes from Stallings Wealth Management,
47:17
the Innovation Connector, and from you.
47:22
With state and federal money eliminated,
47:25
you are the difference
47:26
in keeping local programming on the air at IPR.
47:31
Become a member today at indianapublicradio.org.
47:35
[Michelle] And that's our show,
47:36
our digital content god is August Wilde.
47:39
This week was produced by Luke Jones,
47:42
who melts down weekly.
47:45
We had production assistance from Andrew Montavon.
47:49
Our audio fellow is Maya Doss,
47:51
our show was hosted by me, Michelle Kinsey.
47:53
[Kara] And me, Kara DuQuette.
47:55
"Pop of Culture" is a production from IPR on the campus...
47:59
On the frozen campus of Ball State University.
48:02
(upbeat electronic music)
48:05
(loud beeping)
48:06
[Kara] This is "Pop of Culture" from IPR.
48:09
(phone notification ringing)
48:10
[Michelle] Perfection. I apologize, shut your face hole.
48:15
[Kara] That was my perfection ding. (laughs)
48:17
[Michelle] That's exactly right.