Latest / History Dark / Piers Morgan Confronts The Kansas City Strangler _ Serial Killer With Piers Morgan

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Piers Morgan Confronts The Kansas City Strangler _ Serial Killer With Piers Morgan · History Dark

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: This is a videotaped statement of Lorenzo J.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Gilear to Blackmail 524 of 50.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Regarding the following homicides.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Number one, Stacy Swofford. Next is the homicide of Gwendolyn Kazine.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Next is Margaret Miller. Next is Catherine Berry. Next is
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Naomi Kelly. Next is Deborah Blevins.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Next is Ann Barnes. Next is Kelly Ford. Next is
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Angela Mayhew. Next is Sheila.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Ingold.
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: Lorenzo.
• 0:44
  Speaker 5: Here's Morgan. Good to see you. Come over here.
• 0:49
  Speaker 6: How are you doing today?
• 0:54
  Speaker 7: This took me on by surprise.
• 0:57
  Speaker 6: Oh, it did? Yeah.
• 0:58
  Speaker 5: What did you think was going to happen?
• 0:59
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: We're just having, it's basically just an interview. And here's
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: what I would say to you is, this is your
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: chance just to have your say.
• 1:08
  Speaker 8: Okay.
• 1:09
  Speaker 6: Okay?
• 1:09
  Speaker 5: No one's heard from you for a long time.
• 1:12
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: You good?
• 1:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm good.
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: How long have you been in there?
• 1:18
  Speaker 6: In where? In here.
• 1:20
  Speaker 7: In prison?
• 1:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: 11 years?
• 1:24
  Speaker 7: 4,289 days.
• 1:26
  Speaker 5: Wow, you remember them all. That might be my first
• 1:28
  Speaker 5: question for you.
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: This man is one of America's most notorious serial killers,
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: known as the Kansas City Strangler. Lorenzo Gilead was charged
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: with murdering 13 women. He's serving six life sentences. He
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: says he's an innocent man. He has never spoken publicly before.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: What will Gilead say to the families of the victims
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: who've been denied answers for decades.
• 2:04
  Speaker 9: She would never hurt anybody for somebody to do what
• 2:06
  Speaker 9: they did to her.
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: If you had the chance to sit opposite him, what
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: would you say to him?
• 2:17
  Speaker 10: We're not stupid. We know what you did.
• 2:21
  Speaker 9: You're the only person walking the face of this earth
• 2:23
  Speaker 9: that did that. If he had a soul, he would
• 2:26
  Speaker 9: at least look me in the eye and tell me
• 2:28
  Speaker 9: he was sorry.
• 2:30
  Speaker 11: I worked lots of homicide cases, but I mean, as
• 2:34
  Speaker 11: far as the amount of victims that he had, the
• 2:40
  Speaker 11: length of time that this went on, no, I can't
• 2:43
  Speaker 11: think of anybody more despicable.
• 2:46
  Speaker 12: Than Gillyard.
• 2:51
  Speaker 13: What Lorenzo did was just stone evil stuff. Lorenzo, what
• 2:57
  Speaker 13: the hell were you thinking? What drove you to do this?
• 3:00
  Speaker 13: Where'd this come from? How'd you do that? How'd you
• 3:04
  Speaker 13: live those two lives?
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: A few hours before this police interview, Lorenzo Gilliard was
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: having supper in a diner. He hadn't killed anyone in
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: over 10 years and thought he'd got away with murder.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: Catherine Barry was one of his victims.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: And that's the photograph of Catherine Barry, discovered 314 of
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: 86 at 3001 Central.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Those are your initials on the bottom?
• 3:55
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Do you know Catherine Barry?
• 3:58
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge, no.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen her?
• 4:01
  Speaker 10: Not to my knowledge, I wouldn't remember it, no.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Have you ever had physical contact with her?
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: Not to my knowledge. In March 1986, the naked body
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: of Catherine Barry, a 34-year-old mother of three, had been
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: found half-hidden under a sheet of wood. There was a
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: black stocking knotted tight around her neck. This is where
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: Catherine Barry's body was found. What was unusual to you
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: about this scene?
• 4:37
  Speaker 12: The unusual part of it is she's partially covered. I mean,
• 4:40
  Speaker 12: she's partially covered with plywood and leaves. The thing is,
• 4:44
  Speaker 12: is that she's not out in the open like some
• 4:47
  Speaker 12: of the others were.
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: And some of the other bodies were deliberately left in
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: a purposeful pose.
• 4:54
  Speaker 12: Yeah, most of them were left where they would be found,
• 4:57
  Speaker 12: and most of it, I mean... To me or to
• 5:00
  Speaker 12: probably anybody else that would walk up and find that,
• 5:02
  Speaker 12: it'd be shocking.
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: Twelve of the 13 that he's believed to have killed
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: were prostitutes who may well have had sex with him
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: voluntarily before he killed them. But certainly in Catherine Barry's case,
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: she was not a prostitute. So what do you think
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: he did to Catherine Barry?
• 5:20
  Speaker 12: You could assume that she didn't have sex willingly with him.
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: She was raped and then murdered?
• 5:26
  Speaker 7: Yes, that'd be my assumption.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: What kind of monster would do that?
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: How do you pronounce your surname?
• 5:38
  Speaker 7: Gilliard.
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: Gilliard.
• 5:40
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: Gilliard, yeah.
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: Lorenzo Gilliard was earning a good salary, working as a
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: supervisor at a waste management company. He was married and
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: living a quiet life. No one suspected he was capable
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: of killing anyone. Let me just ask you, first of all,
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: what has life been like for you inside prison?
• 6:12
  Speaker 7: It's different, you know.
• 6:13
  Speaker 10: I'm used to being able to travel, you know, do
• 6:18
  Speaker 10: whatever I wanted to. And here, somebody else controls it,
• 6:21
  Speaker 10: you know.
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: In the 15 years or so leading up to your arrest... Your.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: Life seemed to be pretty perfect. You were very happily
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: married to Jackie. You were in a job that you
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: loved and you were successful. You'd become a supervisor. You
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: had very nice cars that you took great pride in.
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: You went on very nice holidays. Life seemed pretty good, Lorenzo,
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: in that period for you.
• 6:48
  Speaker 7: Yes, it was. Yes, it was good. I wish you
• 6:54
  Speaker 7: hadn't brought up her.
• 6:55
  Speaker 6: Jackie.
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: Jackie.
• 6:57
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: How do you feel about her now?
• 7:02
  Speaker 7: Nothing. I just miss her.
• 7:04
  Speaker 6: Nothing.
• 7:05
  Speaker 10: I'm not angry with her. She hadn't done anything. She
• 7:09
  Speaker 10: was nothing but a great wife.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: Because you had a good marriage, right?
• 7:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 7:15
  Speaker 7: To me it was. I assume to her it was also.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: Here you were, a man who had found true love
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: with a woman that he really adored. You had this
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: very rare Mercedes worth over $ 100, 000. You bought your wife
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: a Mercedes.
• 7:32
  Speaker 7: Yeah, but see, we had five of them.
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: We traded up.
• 7:35
  Speaker 10: Not only did I have a nice car, I had
• 7:39
  Speaker 10: two or three Platinum MasterCards, two or three Visas, Platinum Visas.
• 7:43
  Speaker 10: I had a Platinum Discover. I had a gold Neiman Marcus.
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: You had a Rolex watch, right?
• 7:50
  Speaker 10: Yeah, I traded in my, I had a Piaget watch
• 7:54
  Speaker 10: at first. She bought me a Piaget at first. I
• 7:57
  Speaker 10: traded it in and.
• 7:58
  Speaker 7: Got a Rolex.
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: Because one of the inexplicable things about all this is
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: why somebody who was having such a wonderful life, apparently,
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: would want to commit offenses like this.
• 8:14
  Speaker 7: I can't imagine. I didn't, you know.
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: Do you think you're a violent person?
• 8:24
  Speaker 7: I get angry just.
• 8:24
  Speaker 10: Like everybody else, you know, about stuff that I find
• 8:30
  Speaker 10: not true about.
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: What really makes you angry?
• 8:34
  Speaker 6: Lying.
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: So, Carl, we're now turning into Troost Avenue. And this,
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: at the time of these killings, was where many local
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: prostitutes would work.
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: Is that right?
• 9:03
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 9:03
  Speaker 14: That's true.
• 9:04
  Speaker 15: They would walk back and forth down Troost Avenue. Gilliard was,
• 9:12
  Speaker 15: without a doubt, very cunning. He was very cunning. You know,
• 9:17
  Speaker 15: he's the kind of guy that you would not expect
• 9:20
  Speaker 15: like a lot of serial killers.
• 9:21
  Speaker 14: He was very meticulous in what he did. He was careful.
• 9:30
  Speaker 8: He didn't, you know, he.
• 9:31
  Speaker 15: Didn't have a lot of friends. He didn't associate with
• 9:34
  Speaker 15: a lot of people. So, you know, nobody really knew
• 9:38
  Speaker 15: much about him to suspect.
• 9:40
  Speaker 14: Him of anything.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: Lorenzo Gillyard was living a double life. At work, he
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: was popular and respected.
• 9:52
  Speaker 13: Lorenzo was, he was a good guy. He was always
• 9:57
  Speaker 13: eager to help or happy to help and he never complained.
• 10:00
  Speaker 7: He just did his job and did it with a smile.
• 10:05
  Speaker 13: Lorenzo was the kind of guy you wanted out in
• 10:07
  Speaker 13: the neighborhoods. You wanted interacting with customers. I liked working
• 10:11
  Speaker 13: with him. You just took him as you found him.
• 10:13
  Speaker 13: Good standup guy.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: Gillyard had made it out of a tough neighborhood and
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: was living here in a comfortable suburb of Kansas City.
• 10:33
  Speaker 16: This was the house that we lived in at the time,
• 10:36
  Speaker 16: and that was the house that Lorenzo Gillyard and his.
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: Wife lived in.
• 10:40
  Speaker 13: He's someone I knew from day one I would never trust.
• 10:45
  Speaker 16: One of the first days that we had moved in,
• 10:47
  Speaker 16: we were bringing a TV home, and to get the
• 10:50
  Speaker 16: TV in, I was going to back the truck into
• 10:52
  Speaker 16: the driveway. He said, I want you to come inside
• 10:55
  Speaker 16: and look at something.
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: I want to show you something.
• 10:56
  Speaker 16: He came around from the corner from a bedroom, evidently,
• 10:59
  Speaker 16: and had 38 pistols in each hand. And he told me,
• 11:03
  Speaker 16: you see these? This is mine, and this is my wife's.
• 11:06
  Speaker 16: And if anybody comes in my yard, I'll shoot them.
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: That's not normal behavior. That's not normal.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: Normal behavior it wasn't. Three years later, he was arrested,
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: and they found out who their neighbor really was.
• 11:23
  Speaker 17: Gillyard was given six life sentences without the possibility of parole.
• 11:28
  Speaker 17: The 53-year-old sanitation worker will die in prison.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: How do you feel, Lorenzo, about the fact that you
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: are sitting here as a convicted man as one of
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: America's worst serial killers.
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: How does that make you feel?
• 11:58
  Speaker 13: I hate it.
• 12:00
  Speaker 7: I truly hate it.
• 12:04
  Speaker 10: And I wish you wouldn't use that term again in
• 12:07
  Speaker 10: a conversation.
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: The phrase serial killer?
• 12:09
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and America's worst.
• 12:11
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 12:12
  Speaker 7: Because then I'll get up, I will leave.
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 12:14
  Speaker 7: Because I hate that.
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: Why do you take exception to that?
• 12:17
  Speaker 7: Because that's wrong.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: What does it mean to you, that kind of phrase?
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: Why do you take such exception to it?
• 12:28
  Speaker 7: That's horrible. That's the best word I can term.
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: You think serial killers are horrible people and you don't
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: want to be associated with them?
• 12:35
  Speaker 6: No.
• 12:36
  Speaker 7: And that term, yes. I don't want to be.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: You've been given a tag which you hate and you
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: don't want me to repeat it because you hate it
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: so much. But it's a tag that you know is
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: now associated with your name. If you put your name.
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: Into the internet.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: up comes Lorenzo Gillyard and Serial Killer, you know that.
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: It's not me, I'm not coming up with it myself.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: And yet you find that tag really offensive because you
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: believe you're an innocent man.
• 13:04
  Speaker 7: No, I don't believe it. I know I am, okay?
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: When Catherine Barry, the mother of three, got into Lorenzo
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: Gillyard's car, she was mentally unwell and vulnerable. Leaving her
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: family at home, she would walk the streets of Kansas City,
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: trying to educate people about God. Her daughter Dawn was
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: 16 at the time of the murder. Dawn, you discover
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: that this was a serial killer who killed your mother.
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: Did that make it worse for you, to know that
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: she was just part of this monster's indiscriminate spree?
• 13:50
  Speaker 9: Yeah, it made it really hard to swallow to think
• 13:52
  Speaker 9: he had gotten away with it and had done it
• 13:54
  Speaker 9: that many times. Yeah, it made me angry. It made
• 14:00
  Speaker 9: me really angry. She would have been a very easy
• 14:04
  Speaker 9: target for him. How you could do that to such
• 14:08
  Speaker 9: a kind and sweet soul, I'll never understand. A person
• 14:12
  Speaker 9: with a heart couldn't do what he did.
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: Gilead has denied even meeting Dawn's mother, let alone strangling
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: her to death. How will he react when I confront
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: him with the faces of the women who were killed?
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: MUSIC PLAYS.
• 14:42
  Speaker 18: She too was found shoeless like all the victims and
• 14:45
  Speaker 18: placed in a sexually suggestive pose. Her body contained the
• 14:49
  Speaker 18: semen of the defendant and no one else.
• 14:51
  Speaker 19: The crime started back in 1977 and spanned three decades.
• 14:55
  Speaker 15: Women strangled between 1977 and 1993.
• 15:00
  Speaker 18: Lorenzo Gilliard is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of murder
• 15:03
  Speaker 18: in the first degree for the deaths of Catherine Berry.
• 15:06
  Speaker 17: For the murders of Catherine Berry, Naomi Kelly, Ann Barnes,
• 15:10
  Speaker 17: Kelly Ford.
• 15:11
  Speaker 18: Kelly Ford and Sheila Ingold. Sheila Ingold and Carmelene Hibbs.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: First photograph I'm showing you is Sheila Ingold. Do you
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: know Miss Ingold? Not to my knowledge, no, I don't.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: This is a photograph of Stacey Swofford.
• 15:24
  Speaker 6: I didn't know her.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Have you ever had physical contact.
• 15:26
  Speaker 8: With Miss Swofford?
• 15:27
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge, no.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Kelly Ford, have you ever seen Miss Ford?
• 15:31
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Photograph of Connie Luther.
• 15:34
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge, no, I don't know her neither.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: You don't know her. Have you ever had physical contact
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: with her?
• 15:38
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Carmelene Hibbs. Do you know Miss Hills?
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: Not to my knowledge, no.
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: Let me take you to the moment when you were arrested.
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: You remember that?
• 15:51
  Speaker 7: Oh, I remember it like it was yesterday.
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: Tell me what happened in your own words.
• 15:55
  Speaker 10: These two black guys came in and asked, you know,
• 15:59
  Speaker 10: what's my name?
• 15:59
  Speaker 7: I said, yeah.
• 16:01
  Speaker 10: Said, well, we'd like to talk to you downtown.
• 16:04
  Speaker 7: I said, who are you? And he told me they
• 16:06
  Speaker 7: was detectives.
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: Did they tell you what they wanted.
• 16:09
  Speaker 7: To talk to you about? No, he just said he
• 16:10
  Speaker 7: wanted to talk to me.
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: Did you have any idea?
• 16:12
  Speaker 7: I didn't know what they was talking about, but, you know.
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: So you were shocked?
• 16:15
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I was shocked.
• 16:17
  Speaker 10: So when I get downtown, they got to show me,
• 16:19
  Speaker 10: they asked me about some, show me some, they said,
• 16:22
  Speaker 10: do you know these people here?
• 16:23
  Speaker 7: Show me one picture at a time. I said, no,
• 16:25
  Speaker 7: not to my knowledge.
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: They showed you photographs of 13 women.
• 16:30
  Speaker 7: No, it wasn't 13. It was like five or six.
• 16:33
  Speaker 6: Right. Yeah.
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: And they asked if you'd ever met them.
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and I said, no, not to my knowledge, you know.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: I think they asked you, I think I'm right in saying,
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: they asked you two questions about each woman. They said,
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: have you ever met this person, and have you ever
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: had sex with them?
• 16:46
  Speaker 13: Yeah.
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: And you said, no, no, no, to all of them.
• 16:48
  Speaker 7: No, I said, no, not to my knowledge, yeah, right.
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, not to your knowledge.
• 16:51
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: And none of these women look familiar to you?
• 16:54
  Speaker 7: No, and these was little bitty black and white pictures, so,
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: you know, I couldn't.
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: And did they then tell you why they wanted to
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: talk to you?
• 17:02
  Speaker 10: No, uh-uh. So when we got to talking then, I said, man,
• 17:09
  Speaker 10: what are we talking about?
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: I just want to look at some pictures here. These
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: are some of the people. They showed you the pictures.
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: Same thing.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: These are just a few of the images, Lorenzo.
• 17:29
  Speaker 7: Yeah, see, they weren't like that, though.
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: See, this picture here is Sheila Ingle.
• 17:33
  Speaker 7: Now, That's the only person that actually.
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: You did know her?
• 17:38
  Speaker 7: No, I didn't know her, but.
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: She was a friend of the woman you were seeing
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: at the time?
• 17:41
  Speaker 7: Yeah, right, right.
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: You'd never met her?
• 17:43
  Speaker 7: Never met her. Never seen her.
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: Do you recognize her now?
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: No.
• 17:47
  Speaker 7: Uh-uh. Never seen her before in my life.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: This was Catherine Barry. This was Catherine Barry. Have you
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: ever seen her?
• 17:56
  Speaker 7: I've never seen her.
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: Doesn't ring any bells at all?
• 17:59
  Speaker 7: No, she never rings a bell. Never rung a bell.
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: This was Gwendolyn Kazin. She was just 15.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: It's obviously not a good image of her, but she
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: was the youngest of these victims, 15-year-old girl.
• 18:14
  Speaker 7: I've never seen her, never knew her.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: What do you feel, Lorenzo, about what happened to all
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: these women? Because they were all taken off the streets.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: They were all strangled. And each strangulation apparently took several minutes.
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's a gruesome way to die.
• 18:30
  Speaker 7: Right, I know.
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: What do you feel about what happened to them?
• 18:33
  Speaker 7: I feel bad. But then I had nothing I could
• 18:35
  Speaker 7: do about it.
• 18:44
  Speaker 15: One of the things that just stood out to me
• 18:47
  Speaker 15: was that when we went to his apartment to do
• 18:52
  Speaker 15: a search, was how extremely neat he was. I'd never
• 18:58
  Speaker 15: really seen a man be quite that neat.
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: Incredibly tidy, clinical, precise.
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: Everything was organized. It was all very clean.
• 19:11
  Speaker 12: Yes.
• 19:14
  Speaker 15: If you went to look in a drawer, he could
• 19:18
  Speaker 15: not only tell you what was in the drawer, in
• 19:22
  Speaker 15: what order it was in.
• 19:24
  Speaker 14: And I found that very unusual for a man.
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: Does that tell you that he was a man who
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: liked to be completely in control?
• 19:34
  Speaker 14: Yes, that's exactly what that indicates.
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: And when you look at the precision with which he
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: carried out these murders and the way he left these
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: poor women, again, it was all very orderly.
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: It was very carefully executed.
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 20:00
  Speaker 19: Her body was found at 45th and Garfield. Almost three
• 20:04
  Speaker 19: years later, 15-year-old Gwendolyn Kazin was found dead at 1312 Paseo,
• 20:09
  Speaker 19: a wire still wrapped.
• 20:11
  Speaker 18: Around her neck.
• 20:11
  Speaker 19: Next was Margaret Miller.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: In the 1970s and 80s, Lorenzo Gillyard was living within
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: a two-mile radius of where many of the bodies were found.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: The last woman he was accused of killing was Connie Luther.
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: Her body was found here, with a shoestring tied around
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: her neck. You were working these streets for seven or
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: eight years when we now know Lorenzo Gillyard was picking
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: women off the very streets you were on.
• 20:47
  Speaker 17: I feel extremely fortunate that I survived. But for girls
• 20:55
  Speaker 17: and women who this is how they made their livelihood,
• 20:58
  Speaker 17: this is how they survived, what were we to do?
• 21:02
  Speaker 7: We had to take our chances.
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: You didn't know who this killer was, what he looked like,
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: how old he was, anything.
• 21:10
  Speaker 17: I know for myself, you know, I would get in
• 21:12
  Speaker 17: a car after I tried to look for obvious things
• 21:16
  Speaker 17: and then I would just start praying.
• 21:18
  Speaker 10: I mean, I was in a constant.
• 21:20
  Speaker 17: Prayer, you know, and I know that's, some people don't
• 21:24
  Speaker 17: understand that, but, you know, when you're hungry or when
• 21:28
  Speaker 17: you have bills to pay and this is all that
• 21:29
  Speaker 17: you know and this is all that you've known since
• 21:31
  Speaker 17: you were a child, you know, you do what you
• 21:33
  Speaker 17: do and It was scary.
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: You know that these girls are getting taken by what
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: they think is a client and they're being taken to
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: horrific deaths.
• 21:44
  Speaker 10: Yes.
• 21:46
  Speaker 17: Yeah, so that's what's going through your mind, you know,
• 21:49
  Speaker 17: the whole time that you're in the car when you're
• 21:52
  Speaker 17: looking for your friend and where is she and no
• 21:55
  Speaker 17: one's seen her and then now a body's shown up
• 21:57
  Speaker 17: and you're waiting for the name and you find out.
• 22:00
  Speaker 10: That someone you knew was murdered.
• 22:03
  Speaker 17: I mean, it was a terrifying time for everybody.
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: Your sister ended up, sadly, as a prostitute, didn't she?
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: What impact did that have on you?
• 22:21
  Speaker 10: I don't know how to answer that. It didn't have
• 22:23
  Speaker 10: no impact, one way or another.
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: How did you feel about her being a prostitute? Did
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: you feel sad about that?
• 22:28
  Speaker 10: Yeah, because I wanted more for her than that.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: You lived and worked in an area where there were
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: lots of women working the streets at night, lots of prostitutes.
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: What is your view of prostitution?
• 22:47
  Speaker 10: Frankly, I didn't have one view one way or another.
• 22:51
  Speaker 10: That was the best how they worked to make their.
• 22:53
  Speaker 7: Money, I guess.
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: You didn't find it repellent?
• 22:59
  Speaker 7: I don't know, man. I don't know how to answer that.
• 23:05
  Speaker 10: When you say repellent, you mean I found it disgusting
• 23:08
  Speaker 10: and hated it?
• 23:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 23:12
  Speaker 7: I don't know. I don't know what to say about that.
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: Have you ever had sex with a prostitute?
• 23:18
  Speaker 7: I don't know.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: You don't know?
• 23:19
  Speaker 6: No.
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: You wouldn't forget, would you? If he was at.
• 23:22
  Speaker 7: Back then, man, clubs was club. When we went clubbing.
• 23:25
  Speaker 7: You know, women just.
• 23:27
  Speaker 10: They might have been working the streets at night, but
• 23:29
  Speaker 10: they'd come to clubs.
• 23:30
  Speaker 7: You know, I don't know.
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: But have you ever paid a woman for sex?
• 23:33
  Speaker 8: No.
• 23:34
  Speaker 7: No, I haven't.
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: Never?
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: Never.
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: Would you ever?
• 23:39
  Speaker 7: If she looked good enough, probably I would. I don't know.
• 23:42
  Speaker 7: I ain't going to put myself... I would never put
• 23:44
  Speaker 7: myself in that position.
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: No.
• 23:47
  Speaker 7: I don't... I don't know, man.
• 23:51
  Speaker 10: Basically, I was always taught, you pay a woman for
• 23:55
  Speaker 10: sex all the time. If you buy her a drink,
• 23:57
  Speaker 10: a dinner, take her out and buy, do anything. That's
• 24:00
  Speaker 10: paying for it.
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: Do you think all women are prostitutes, basically?
• 24:04
  Speaker 7: No, I didn't say that.
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: That's what you're implying.
• 24:09
  Speaker 10: And I'm going to end our conversation now because you're
• 24:11
  Speaker 10: taking things out of context.
• 24:13
  Speaker 7: I didn't apply that.
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: I don't think I am taking things out of context.
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: I'm trying to work out what you're telling me.
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: You just said, when I said to you, you know,
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: what do you feel about paying women for sex? You said, well,
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: you pay women for sex all the time when you
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: buy them dinner.
• 24:26
  Speaker 7: And then you don't call them prostitutes.
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: You call them girls. But my question was about prostitutes.
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: So obviously when you answer the way you did, I
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: don't think it's irrational of me to then think you
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: look at all women in that way.
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: No, I do not. So if you want to clarify that,
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: please clarify it.
• 24:40
  Speaker 7: No, I don't look at them that way.
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: I'm not trying to be unnecessarily hostile. I'm just reacting
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: to what you're telling me. So explain what you meant.
• 24:50
  Speaker 7: Most men, when you take a lady out, what do
• 24:52
  Speaker 7: you want? Have sex, right? So you buy her dinner,
• 24:57
  Speaker 7: take her to a movie. In hopes of what? having
• 25:04
  Speaker 7: sex with her later on.
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: Well, I don't think it always has to lead to sex,
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: does it?
• 25:06
  Speaker 6: I mean.
• 25:08
  Speaker 7: Man, either that, if you don't, you're gay.
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: If it doesn't lead to sex, you're gay?
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 25:15
  Speaker 7: That's what, man, you're trying to.
• 25:18
  Speaker 10: That's what's... You're trying to pretend like that's never in
• 25:22
  Speaker 10: your repertoire. You know, you ain't never seen a beautiful
• 25:25
  Speaker 10: woman or a pretty woman And so, well, you know,
• 25:27
  Speaker 10: buy her lunch and a few drinks and hope we
• 25:29
  Speaker 10: go to a hotel or go someplace.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: No, but I wouldn't assume that if I didn't have
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: sex with a woman after a date in my life,
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: that somehow that meant I was gay.
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: That it was an automatic thing.
• 25:39
  Speaker 7: No, no, I didn't say it was an automatic thing.
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: It would always be entirely of the choice of the woman.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: And by the way, there are many, many dates that
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: happen every minute of the day that there's no.
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: Right, okay. Consequence of sex.
• 25:52
  Speaker 7: The first time, first time out.
• 25:54
  Speaker 10: But eventually, that's what it's going to lead up to.
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: You're very angry. Understandably, if, as you say, you're an
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: innocent man, you're very angry. What do you hope.
• 26:06
  Speaker 7: I'm sorry, if I... You know, it's just... I'm getting
• 26:11
  Speaker 7: tired of.
• 26:13
  Speaker 7: I didn't kill these people. Now, I'm 68 years old.
• 26:19
  Speaker 6: I don't have.
• 26:20
  Speaker 10: When you're trying to put words in my mouth, it's
• 26:23
  Speaker 10: twisted to.
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: I honestly don't want to put any words in your mouth.
• 26:28
  Speaker 10: If I'd have had sex with him, I'd have paid him.
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: Gilead says he's never had sex with any of the
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: women he's convicted of killing. So how will he explain
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: that the semen found on their bodies was his? Lorenzo
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: Gillyard is telling me he's never even met the women
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: he's convicted of killing. Any suggestion that he has gets
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: an angry response. When you were interviewed by the police originally,
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: you said you'd never met any of these women.
• 27:13
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge, I didn't.
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: And to your knowledge, you'd never had sex with them.
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: Just to clarify, you never told your lawyer you had
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: sex with any of these women?
• 27:22
  Speaker 7: No, I never did.
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: He just made that up?
• 27:23
  Speaker 7: I guess he did. I never told him that.
• 27:26
  Speaker 10: If you're going to keep saying that, then I'm going.
• 27:27
  Speaker 7: To get up and leave.
• 27:28
  Speaker 6: No, no, no.
• 27:28
  Speaker 7: Because I keep telling you, I didn't tell him that.
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: Lorenzo.
• 27:30
  Speaker 7: That's beginning to piss me off. I didn't tell him that.
• 27:33
  Speaker 7: I don't have to lie.
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: Lorenzo, I have no dog in this fight. I'm just
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: trying to work out what happened.
• 27:40
  Speaker 10: I keep telling you over and over, I didn't tell
• 27:42
  Speaker 10: him that.
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: Gilear will spend the rest of his life in prison,
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: but he nearly got away with murder. For years, police
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: were finding the bodies of women, but they had no
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: suspects and no idea there was a serial killer on
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: the loose. Then, one November morning in 1987, they found
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: the semi-naked body of Sheila Ingold in an abandoned van.
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: This murder would eventually lead to the capture of Lorenzo Gillyard,
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: almost 30 years after he's believed to have first killed.
• 28:30
  Speaker 14: This is where Sheila Engel was found, right there.
• 28:33
  Speaker 11: Right there.
• 28:35
  Speaker 14: The vans were parked out here in this lot.
• 28:51
  Speaker 19: The Kansas City Strangler killed four women in 1987, the
• 28:54
  Speaker 19: busiest year. Among them, Sheila Ingold's body was discovered in
• 28:59
  Speaker 19: an abandoned van on Troost.
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: Lorenzo Gillyard had a personal connection to Sheila Ingold. He
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: was dating her friend. She was the tenth woman he's
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: accused of killing. But it was the first time the
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: police would link him directly to a murder.
• 29:20
  Speaker 15: Sheila Ingold was found here in a van.
• 29:24
  Speaker 14: Gillyard was right there.
• 29:26
  Speaker 15: And that tan building over there, it used to be
• 29:29
  Speaker 15: a fish market. And he was there getting fish the
• 29:32
  Speaker 15: day the body was found.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: So that was the first time that you were able
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: to place him in the immediate proximity to one of
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: the dead women.
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 29:44
  Speaker 15: Gilliard admits to being at the fish market while the
• 29:47
  Speaker 15: police were on the crime scene for Sheila Ingo. One
• 29:57
  Speaker 15: of the main things that led us to believe that
• 30:02
  Speaker 15: Gillyard was involved was Charles Berry told me that there
• 30:07
  Speaker 15: was an individual that wanted to look at the van.
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: Who's Charles Berry?
• 30:12
  Speaker 15: Charles Berry was the individual that had the car shop
• 30:16
  Speaker 15: here that owned the vans.
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: So the man who had the store here said that
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: a man named Lorenzo came and inquired about that van. Yes.
• 30:27
  Speaker 14: And he didn't want to see any of the rest
• 30:28
  Speaker 14: of the vans.
• 30:29
  Speaker 15: He wanted to see that particular one, even though he
• 30:32
  Speaker 15: was told that that particular van was just one they
• 30:35
  Speaker 15: use for parts.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: So you now have him opposite where her body was found,
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: and you have him inquiring about trying to get that van.
• 30:46
  Speaker 12: Yes.
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: And you put all that together, and what have you got?
• 30:50
  Speaker 7: A killer.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: Gillyard was questioned. Blood and hair samples were taken. But
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: there was not enough evidence to charge him. What was
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: curious about her death was that you were just opposite
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: where her body was found, and also you'd made inquiries
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: about buying the truck.
• 31:16
  Speaker 7: No, I didn't know nothing about no truck.
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: You never made any inquiries about it?
• 31:20
  Speaker 7: No, uh-uh.
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: I just want to go through the things that happened
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: to you in your earlier life, and I want you
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: to tell me just honestly what your reaction to it is.
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: Between 1969 and 1974, you were a suspect in five
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: separate rape cases, but you were never convicted.
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: What do you remember about those cases?
• 31:44
  Speaker 7: One of them was a girlfriend. In 1969, that's how
• 31:51
  Speaker 7: it started.
• 31:54
  Speaker 10: So then after that, whenever in the neighborhoods where I
• 31:59
  Speaker 10: lived in the hood, whenever rapes came up, I guess
• 32:01
  Speaker 10: they come to arrest, you know, see who lived in
• 32:04
  Speaker 10: the neighborhood.
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: In 1975, you were charged with raping a friend's sister
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: near the Missouri River. You were charged with beating and
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: raping her. You told police she was lying. Ultimately, you
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: pled guilty to molesting the girl, and you got a
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: nine-month sentence in Jackson County Jail.
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: Do you remember that?
• 32:20
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I remember that.
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: What happened there?
• 32:23
  Speaker 7: I don't know.
• 32:24
  Speaker 10: She's passed away, and her sister is passed away. That's
• 32:29
  Speaker 10: who I was living with, was her sister. And I
• 32:31
  Speaker 10: don't want to discuss that, what happened with that.
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: In 1980, you assaulted and threatened to shoot your wife,
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: who then divorced you. The next month, you assaulted your
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: ex-wife twice. You beat and pistol-whipped her. Is this true?
• 32:45
  Speaker 7: No, she lied.
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: Was it an abusive relationship? Did you hit her?
• 32:49
  Speaker 6: No.
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: You never hit her?
• 32:51
  Speaker 7: Oh, she hit me, yes. I guess I ain't gonna lie.
• 32:53
  Speaker 7: I did.
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: You did hit him?
• 32:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: The reason that they arrested you and then charged you
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: and indeed why you got convicted was that they found
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: your DNA on all of these.
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: Victims' bodies.
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: So they say.
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: Right. But as you know, that's why you got convicted.
• 33:13
  Speaker 7: Right, right.
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: And the odds on this.
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: Being anybody but you, according to a forensic expert in court,
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: is one in 18 quadrillions. That's one in 18 million
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: billion chance that it could be somebody else other than you.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: I mean, these are extraordinary statistics.
• 33:42
  Speaker 8: In this particular case, it was shocking that all 13
• 33:45
  Speaker 8: of those cases existed. But up until 2004, there had
• 33:48
  Speaker 8: been no resolution to them. So many victims, so many cases.
• 33:54
  Speaker 8: It's 13 people. That was the biggest we'd ever seen
• 33:58
  Speaker 8: in Kansas City's history.
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: Twelve of the bodies had semen on them, but detectives
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: had no way of knowing they were all from the
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: same man.
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: The murders went unsolved.
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: But then in 2003, over ten years since Gilead had
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: last killed, a grant from the federal government enabled DNA analysis...
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: of those semen samples.
• 34:27
  Speaker 8: We had Lorenzo Gilliards, a blood standard from him that
• 34:30
  Speaker 8: was actually on file in our freezer. And it had
• 34:33
  Speaker 8: actually been taken in conjunction with the Sheila Ingold case.
• 34:38
  Speaker 8: We pulled the standard and decided to run it to
• 34:41
  Speaker 8: see if we could make an association or cross him
• 34:44
  Speaker 8: off as a potential suspect. There was a moment, oh
• 34:48
  Speaker 8: my God, it was the same profile. It was a
• 34:52
  Speaker 8: very exciting resolution. so that there was finally an answer
• 34:55
  Speaker 8: to all 12 of these cases that were now connected
• 34:58
  Speaker 8: to one person.
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: Gilead has always said the Kansas City police framed him.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: He insists the DNA samples were tampered with, degraded too
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: much for accurate testing, or lost. I'm trying to work
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: out the truth here because obviously you're facing at the
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: moment the rest of your life in this prison.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: For crimes that you say you didn't commit.
• 35:23
  Speaker 7: I did not.
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: Why would the police frame you, do you think?
• 35:26
  Speaker 7: I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine's.
• 35:31
  Speaker 10: At that time, my assumption was they were trying, everybody
• 35:35
  Speaker 10: was trying to.
• 35:35
  Speaker 7: Make a name.
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: Right, but what makes no sense to me, Lorenzo, is
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: that they arrested you years and years later. They were
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: just told by the DNA laboratory guys This is the
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: DNA we found on the bodies. And the one match
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: they found on every one of those bodies' DNA was
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: your DNA.
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: Nobody else's. No one else they'd interviewed.
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: And I don't understand why so much later down the
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: line they would have any vested interest in framing you.
• 36:04
  Speaker 7: How did they have my DNA to match it to anything?
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: Well, they had it from when you were tested.
• 36:09
  Speaker 7: Tested when?
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: Back in the... Well, you know when you were tested, right?
• 36:14
  Speaker 7: I've never been tested. They've never had no.
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: But they had your blood and they had your.
• 36:18
  Speaker 7: No, it was destroyed in 1998.
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: But during the process of them interviewing you and arresting
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: you over Sheila Ingalls' death, they did take samples off you.
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: They took blood samples, they took hair, and they took saliva, right?
• 36:34
  Speaker 7: No, they didn't take no saliva.
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: What did you give them?
• 36:38
  Speaker 7: Blood and hair.
• 36:40
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: That was enough for them later when DNA testing came
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: in to get your DNA from that, from those samples.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: But your argument is those samples were destroyed.
• 36:49
  Speaker 7: Those samples was destroyed.
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: But when they arrested you again, years and years later,
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: in connection with all these offenses, they did more tests.
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: On you, didn't they?
• 36:59
  Speaker 7: No, they didn't get no DNA from me then. They didn't?
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: No.
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: They didn't take any blood tests?
• 37:03
  Speaker 6: No.
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: No more samples?
• 37:05
  Speaker 7: No, they did not.
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: The police arrested you for 13 murders.
• 37:09
  Speaker 7: 12, okay. Well, 12, but it was 13 in court.
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: And they never took any samples off?
• 37:15
  Speaker 7: No, never did.
• 37:22
  Speaker 8: So you told me that his, Mr. Gilliard alleges his
• 37:24
  Speaker 8: sample was never taken again in 2004. And we have
• 37:29
  Speaker 8: a sample in 2004 that was taken from him that
• 37:31
  Speaker 8: we used for DNA analysis. So I know that's, that
• 37:36
  Speaker 8: can't be true, essentially. And not only did we have
• 37:39
  Speaker 8: his DNA on our victim's, but we also had victims'
• 37:43
  Speaker 8: DNA on items taken from Mr.
• 37:45
  Speaker 13: Gillyard.
• 37:46
  Speaker 8: In 2004, they took a brand-new DNA standard from Mr. Gillyard,
• 37:51
  Speaker 8: and once we completed analysis on that, we went back
• 37:53
  Speaker 8: and checked to make sure that that standard matched all
• 37:56
  Speaker 8: 13 cases. It matched the 1987 blood standard that we
• 38:01
  Speaker 8: had from Mr. Gillyard, so everything across the board was consistent.
• 38:05
  Speaker 8: It was all the same person.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: You have very good memory, incredibly precise memory about everything.
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: You can remember specific dates going back decades.
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: And yet you occasionally have erupted with anger and threatened
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: to leave. And it suddenly fires up out of nowhere.
• 38:24
  Speaker 7: I've shared a lot with y'all, and I've got nothing
• 38:27
  Speaker 7: in return for it.
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: What do you want in return for me?
• 38:30
  Speaker 7: Nothing.
• 38:31
  Speaker 10: Just nothing. I just felt offended, I guess.
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: What were you offended by?
• 38:37
  Speaker 7: The terms that you used and some of the questions.
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: What would you say to all the families of these women?
• 38:49
  Speaker 7: I'm sorry what happened to them. That's all I can say.
• 38:53
  Speaker 7: I didn't do it, but I'm sorry.
• 38:54
  Speaker 6: Margaret Miller, discovered.
• 39:04
  Speaker 20: 5-9 of 82-37 at Garfield. Do you know, or did you.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Know, Miss Miller? Not that I, know.
• 39:29
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge, no.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Have you ever had physical contact with Miss Miller?
• 39:32
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen Miss Miller?
• 39:35
  Speaker 6: Nope, not to my knowledge.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Carmeline Hibbs, do you know Miss Hibbs?
• 39:40
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge, no.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen Miss Hibbs?
• 39:42
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge, no.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Have you ever had any physical contact with her?
• 39:46
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge, nope, nope. Not to my knowledge.
• 39:49
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge. Not to my knowledge.
• 39:51
  Speaker 11: I didn't know her. Nope.
• 39:53
  Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen her?
• 39:57
  Speaker 7: Not that I know her. Not to my knowledge.
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: Does it matter to you whether I believe you or not?
• 40:24
  Speaker 7: No, not really. I don't know why I would. After
• 40:27
  Speaker 7: you walk out of this room, you know.
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: You see, I think you're a plausible talker.
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: You have an answer for everything.
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: But I find some of what you've said about women
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: a little bit disturbing. I think other people will too.
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: You've admitted to potentially being a violent man. We know
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: you have a record of convictions for sexual assault and
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: for violence.
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: I thought you said... Well, you have criminal convictions for
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: assault and for violence, right? You haven't contested that. When
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: you put it all together.
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: And you have the police saying they're categorically, in their
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: words to me, there is not a one in 100
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: million chance it was anybody but Lorenzo Gilead.
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: The DNA.
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: From him, directly matched, each, every one of these women.
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: It's very hard to look at you, Lorenzo, and see
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: an innocent man.
• 41:28
  Speaker 7: Okay. Then that's it. So, are we through then? If
• 41:34
  Speaker 7: you don't, yeah, that's good.
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: As any part of you, and I'll be straight with you,
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: you've always denied all this, despite the overwhelming evidence.
• 41:46
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 41:46
  Speaker 7: Overwhelming evidence.
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: DNA. DNA is pretty overwhelming.
• 41:50
  Speaker 7: Okay. According to the police, okay.
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: According to anyone that studies the DNA results.
• 41:58
  Speaker 7: And who else did it?
• 42:00
  Speaker 10: But the Kansas City Police Department.
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: Well, let me ask you this then. If it wasn't you,
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: who else was it?
• 42:05
  Speaker 7: I don't know. I don't know.
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: Have you got any theories?
• 42:09
  Speaker 6: No.
• 42:10
  Speaker 7: I don't know.
• 42:11
  Speaker 12: I don't know, man.
• 42:12
  Speaker 7: I truly don't know.
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: The problem I have, Lorenzo, is that you go from
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: being this charming, well-spoken, polite man to somebody very different
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: very quickly. You go to somebody that I could imagine,
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: if he was angry and he was pushed enough, could
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: be very dangerous.
• 42:34
  Speaker 10: So what these women have made me angry or pushed
• 42:38
  Speaker 10: enough to do to make.
• 42:39
  Speaker 7: Me hurt them?
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: You tell me.
• 42:41
  Speaker 7: I'm asking you. They couldn't have done nothing. They couldn't
• 42:45
  Speaker 7: have done nothing.
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: Did they disrespect you?
• 42:48
  Speaker 10: I don't know how they could have disrespected me.
• 42:50
  Speaker 7: I didn't know them.
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: Yet your DNA was found all over their bodies. Okay.
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: But you know that.
• 42:58
  Speaker 7: All right. All over their bodies? Come on. I know
• 43:03
  Speaker 7: that wasn't right.
• 43:04
  Speaker 10: It was in their sex area with Sheila Ingle.
• 43:09
  Speaker 7: It was a spot on her leg.
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: How did they get that?
• 43:15
  Speaker 7: I don't know.
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: You've never met her, you said.
• 43:17
  Speaker 7: I never met her. I don't know. I just truly
• 43:22
  Speaker 7: don't know.
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: What was your defense in court?
• 43:28
  Speaker 7: I truly don't know. I was just there.
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: You have no idea what your defense was?
• 43:32
  Speaker 6: No.
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: I read it.
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: You were charged with killing 13 women by strangulation, and
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: you have no idea what your defense was?
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: Do you think I'm an idiot, Lorenzo? Do I look
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: an idiot to.
• 43:48
  Speaker 8: You?
• 43:48
  Speaker 7: Can I go back? Have a good day, y'all. Thank you.
• 44:14
  Speaker 6: All right.
• 44:17
  Speaker 7: Here, this is Jan.
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: Tonight, Lorenzo Guilherme will go back to his cell, as
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: he does every night. and reflect perhaps on how he
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: could have grown old with his wife Jackie, the woman
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: he told me he loved. Instead, he will die in prison,
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: a serial killer whose past eventually caught up with him.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: MUSIC PLAYS.
• 45:15
  Speaker 9: When you don't have your mom, there's a part of
• 45:17
  Speaker 9: you that just, that missing piece that you have growing up,
• 45:20
  Speaker 9: you never get over it.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: You just get the feeling he's managed to avoid having
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: to deal with any of this in terms of accountability.
• 45:28
  Speaker 9: Yeah, nobody's, I mean, since the trial, I'm sure nobody's
• 45:30
  Speaker 9: been in his face to tell him you're.
• 45:32
  Speaker 5: Full of it. He's done no interviews, no, nothing. He's
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: not had anybody do it to him.
• 45:36
  Speaker 6: Good.
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: And it unnerved him.
• 45:38
  Speaker 9: As a human being, we all have that innate compassion.
• 45:41
  Speaker 7: He doesn't have it.
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: Having spent time with him, I actually think being incarcerated
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: for the rest of your life for someone like him
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: might be the best of all punishments.
• 45:52
  Speaker 9: That actually brings me a little bit of peace to
• 45:54
  Speaker 9: know that he's suffering. He should suffer because he devastated
• 45:59
  Speaker 9: us and we can't get it back.
• 46:02
  Speaker 7: So good.
• 46:03
  Speaker 9: I'm glad to hear that he's quite miserable.
• 46:05
  Speaker 7: I hope it continues.