Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 511. Engaging with Creators + A Winning Formula for Developing Campaigns That Meet the Moment - Neda Azarfar

Transcript

511. Engaging with Creators + A Winning Formula for Developing Campaigns That Meet the Moment - Neda Azarfar · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm Becky.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: And this is the we Are For Good podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: So welcome to the Good Community.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabbit fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: So let's get started.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Becky, whatcha know?
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I know that we have a brilliant, powerful, incredible woman on the podcast today and I have been obsessed with her I'm just going to say it right now for at least three months, and I'm so excited that she is here today.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I cannot wait to introduce the community to Netta Azafar.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: She is the founder of Nazar Works and y'all we have been talking about how do you tap creators and how do you flex that influence this year, and Netta is like the queen of this.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: I got to give a little bit of background before I go into her bio, because Julie really connected me to Netta and to her story.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: She had this incredible campaign with an awesome organization called Alima and they were literally creating this hashtag called Breath For All and it was really lifting this awareness around the fact that there are so many people that are dying in sub-Saharan Africa because they don't have access to respiratory and oxygen supplies.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, would any of us think about that?
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: And this campaign that came along to just talk about how do we give someone breath literally just took away my soul.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: I put it in my gift guide and I've just been obsessed with Netta ever since, so let me introduce her to you all.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: She's got this awesome background in the startup tech space and she was a key member of the team that helped relaunch MySpace as a music discovery platform in 2011.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Were you on John MySpace?
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Because I totally was.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: No, tom, your first friend, tom McCurry fan blocked that Totally.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: It was totally in, but that's me like as Gen X, but really shifting gears.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: She transitioned to the nonprofit world in 2014 when she became Hello, the vice president of marketing communications at the recording Academy, which is the organization behind the Grammy Awards, and there Netta led brand digital marketing, public relations, promotions and special events for the Academy and its charities, which are music cares and the Grammy Museum, and it's just an incredible advocacy division.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: So she's really been working at this nexus of entertainment and social good and she is also in that advocacy space working to help pass pro creator music legislation, launch donor communication platforms and establish digital fundraising programs.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: So if you showed up for influence and connector, you're going to get that, but the marketing and the how to activate it is going to be the cherry on top of this conversation.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: And the last thing I have to say is that this is literally written in her bio and I have to read it.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: In her spare time, netta travels the world, eats like a champ, reads and writes fiction.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: As a foodie.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I feel seen.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Netta, welcome to the we Are For Good podcast, for so glad you're in this space.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Thank you, I got to take you everywhere I go.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: That was a good intro.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: That's you.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: You sit in that we're just so proud of all you're doing to advance good.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: But we never dive straight into our conversations because we think it's important to get to know the human behind the work first.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: So we want to know, like talk about growing up, talk about little Netta, like how did she get into this advocacy work and what led you to this position today?
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: There were so many things.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: I will say, little Netta, I'm Iranian, so and I lived in Iran till about six or seven my parents got divorced and my mom decided that it was the right move to get out and move to America where the rest of her family had immigrated, and so there's like that story this is in that at that time it's like immediately post-revolution Iran.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: So that kind of experience like you just see a lot, like you see a lot through the war, you see there was a war at that time.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: You see a lot through the war, you see a lot through the migration process how you're treated differently.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: Suddenly, just all of that, and I think it just kind of brought about an awareness at a very young age of how big the world is, how hard things can be, how instantly everything could just go away and how individual people can make all the difference I mean I could give you.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: That's why I said I don't know, because it's like I don't know.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: Was it that person?
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: or was it that person, was it that instance?
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: Or was it that instance where someone's act of kindness and just self-sacrifice like saved it, you know, saved everything, and just kind of you see, like how big of a difference people can make and you can make and how much you maybe I think feel like you owe back for all that you've got?
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, neda, thank you for taking us back into a little piece of your story.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I think it absolutely just connects to be able to see the pain and see like the opportunity to hope.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's channeled into your work, the work that we've seen, at least, and that we're excited to dive into today.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, we hear about your career and to me it's like some of these names are just like larger than life, that you've gotten to be part of these missions.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: I mean something like the Grammys, where you're at the nexus of entertainment and social good, kind of like what Becky talked about.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: So I wonder if you would say you know this is very much a bent of we are for good.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: You know we are coming out of the trends.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: As we see the start of this year, I think of a couple of them that just align so well, from tapping creators to grow our influence and the idea that media helps scale our impact.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: I mean there's so much here.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I wonder what you're seeing as you step back and you look at the sector you know and the media landscape what's shaping it and what opportunities are existing right now for social impact.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: I think when I look at the social impact space today, I see like a lot of opportunity and I see a willingness finally to draw less, since from entertainment.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: So I think in the entertainment sector and when I say entertainment I mean it the way audiences design it today like everything right, like all, literally, emotion, media, youtube, instagram, like all of it, edutainment what that space has always understood is its ability to create empathy and, you know, change minds and values and really change culture.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: And I think what the people in that space have always really also understood is it's not really about, like, the substance of them, but it's just because they happen to have been able to create a package of images and stories and messages that resonate with people and get people's attention right, and that's how they have amassed an audience and built a following.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: People in entertainment get that right.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: If I flip to the social impact space, I you know that's a space that is not at all about the packaging, never been about the packaging.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: It's all substance and it's, like you know, very cerebral and thoughtful and the marketing has always and still does reflect that, you know quite serious, informative I was like neurotically detailed at times.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: I think philanthropy can get so focused on the very important work that it does that the marketing can get it twisted and think that like it's all about the marketing, like it's all about them, right, organizations will think it's all about them and the substance of their work, right.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: It's like the opposite of what the entertainment world knows, right.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: It's like they think it's about the substance of our work and talking about that, our cause and our programs, that that's the key to amassing audience and support.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: And it's just like been this fundamental misunderstanding that for so long has caused our space in philanthropy to just miss it and like downplay image and entertainment and popular culture as these trivial and, you know, transient distractions that are taking away focus from the things that really matter.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: And so I think that missing it has caused us to miss out, while almost every other industry has drawn these lessons from entertainment and embraced its role and the role of influencers and content creators and story and image, and you know that that whole package as legitimate communication strategies and on profit sector, has just sat on the sidelines.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: And now there's just like such a gap between where you see everyone else is and where we are, and to me it's almost like the.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: The vastness of that gap is good news because it's such an open space and there's so much opportunity.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: And just in prepping for this, I was like I'm gonna find some stats.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: So I'm gonna tell you some stats I found hit us with them.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: I saw there was a study that came 74% of S&P 100 companies redid their whole like brand visuals and brand packaging within the first seven years because they saw their comms approach wasn't resonating.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: More recently, in 2023, there were two things that came out.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: One, from 2020 to 2023, was like over 70% of organizations revamp their whole visual identity to make it more current and adaptable and like 50 something percent redid their brand strategy to make sure that it was evolving with customers Interest in the excuse.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: You just think about, like how much life has changed since 2020.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: So that's what organizations are doing the recognizing that and they're changing to.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: You mentioned the next is a better time and using you know content creators like 75 to 85% of organizations work with content creators today and it's just like influencer marketing is just part of the standard marketing plan.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Those are really big numbers and I couldn't find reports that mapped all those trends onto the social impact space, but I can look around.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: You can look around.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: You know it's not like 70% of nonprofits revamping.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: You know like it's not but but that's the opportunity and I think that, when you see all those other sectors of moving so significantly and like what big stats like that and talking about these trends does is, I think it provides a level of security and assurance To the nonprofit leaders who had known, you know, for some time that they need to be doing these things and likely been trying to convince senior management and their boards that they need to change the way that they talk and present themselves or invest in their visual identity and content and Work with influencers right like they've been having these conversations, and I think that, on a leadership level, nonprofits are waking up to this idea and just realization that everyone else has understood and learn from entertainment, which is that it's really not about you.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: It's it's not about us and the amazing work that we do, however incredible and valuable, that it is not about what we want or what we have to say and what we think.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: It's Gonna just be about the audience and what they want and what they think, and if we want them to want us and think about us and to give their attention to us, and we're the ones who are gonna have to adapt, the work we do is the work that we do, but the presentation and that that whole kind of package and facade of it, that's the part that we Need to adapt, should adapt and should just be prepared to have to keep adapting and updating until we get that.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: You know, click, we see it resonate to build the audience.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: That's what I like, long, but that's what I have seen happening across all these different sectors and brands and I think that's how it's impacting our space today in creating that opportunity and giving that hopefully like final nudge Security cross in the social impact space and nonprofit leaders to go forth and conquer.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: I could not agree with you more.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: And we're like bobbleheads over here because what you just said is absolute truth, it is fact and I don't want anybody to get Hunker down in that is like, oh, we've missed the boat, because we're telling you right now you have not Miss the boat.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: And I have to address this as as probably somebody who perpetuated Some of this, john, like we're guilty of it.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I think the nonprofit sector specifically, is just so insular and we talk about this a lot just the way we work in silos.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: It's not even like when we were in health care philanthropy, we weren't even looking what Higher ed was doing or social services or the arts.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: We were just looking to the left and right about what's health care philanthropy doing.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: And what we're saying now Is not only do you need to not look side to side to what your peers are doing, you have to get so far out of your silo to look cross industry, because this is such a moment and such an opportunity, and I would even say it's a good thing that we are not going to be controlling this narrative, and I think the shift that we're seeing, and why we made this a trend for twenty twenty four, is when you are trying to control the narrative, you're trying to push your organization, but when you make it community based and you have the community say this is how I see myself, you know, within your mission, this is where I see myself having an impact.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: This is what resonates.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Guess what?
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: You move from being an organization into a movement and that gets bigger and it gets more expansive and the vision can become so much bigger than we ever even dreamed.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: And so thank you for just laying the groundwork on this, because something we said, john, do you remember this in the trends, and we're talking about tapping creators you got to start looking at creators as a prospect, like when you're going through, you know all of your donor pool in your portfolio.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: You need a plan for that, as much as you need a digital marketing plan, as much as you have a plan for major gifts, as much as you have a plan for how to steward.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: This is absolutely something that has got to be baked in and those who are doing it are really soaring.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: So I want to talk about, like, how do we develop campaigns that can flex this ideal and they really meet the moment for someone to come in and put their signature on how they're gonna show up for your organization.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: So let's spend some time talking about how you're building these modern social impact campaigns like.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Walk us through some of those key ingredients and hallmarks that you're seeing within these campaigns yes, so for a campaign to meet the moment, I think it has to actually be about the moment and be based on what's happening in the moment, and that means it's not based on you, on us, right?
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: It's got to be bigger than us, bigger than our programs, bigger than our mission.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: I know the mission is really big, but bigger.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: So for listeners, then, step one is take the time to do research, research, popular culture and media, and you know different audience communities that you care about and see what's happening there and have you know a clear picture of the world in which your audience exists Multi dimensionally, right like in full form, and then map yourself onto that.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: So how can we, as this organization, enter into that world?
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: Naturally can we.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: What's it gonna take to connect on that level?
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: That's kind of what I mean.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: Like stop making ourselves the jump off point.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: The common approach I've seen is okay, well, this is the initiative, and so let's brainstorm ways that we can modernize how we talk about it.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Or I don't know how many times, like we've all been in the meeting where it's like well, let's come up with some taglines that creatively summarize this program, like that's fine to do and you'll probably end up with things that you like.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: You know doing those exercises, and you should, because you based them on yourself.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: So you're gonna like what you come up with.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: It's, it's all about you, but it's not gonna take you anywhere.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: New second, and have you venturing into new territories and finding new audiences?
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: Right, what I'm suggesting is more like you know, going outside of yourself.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: So maybe let's say you start with audience, then you look at, okay, well, what are they dealing with and what's bothering them and what are they giving their attention to?
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: What's got them excited?
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: And then now, as this nonprofit, how can we leave the space that we're in and enter into the spaces that our audiences occupy, meet people where they are, not where you want them to be, and how do we go there and connect and not to be adapt ourselves and adapt what we present and how we present it so that it resonates there.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: Right, that's to me, the magic ingredient is finding that point of connection and building from there.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: I love this so much and I'm just here for your TED Talk all day long.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Everything that you shared is just so smart because it speaks to just like the authenticity of the moment, like to build with community, not for community, like it's such a bedrock of showing up in a way that's going to actually connect and engage with people right this very minute.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: And so I mean, I got to ask you how you see nonprofits or social impact orgs listening today.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: How can they get into the creator game I mean we're talking about, we want to tap creators, we want to grow our influence by lock and arms, giving them the keys of the kingdom a little bit to talk about you know our mission in their own unique way.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: What's some advice you would say for how to, you know, bring those partnerships to life?
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: And just like, where have you seen that really working well?
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: I think the first thing is to understand for nonprofits listening that they need to stop thinking about creators and influencer marketing as like a thing to think about or consider or experiment with.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: We're past the trial phase, you know.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Like this is a thing, you know it's happening.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: I said that other like 75, 85%, you know start of organizations that work with influencers regularly.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: There was a HubSpot survey.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: Like 90% of marketers presumably who have worked with influencers, consider it effective.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: Most are spending around $5,000 to $50,000 on influencer marketing.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Right, it's like one of the fastest growing aspects of people's marketing budgets and the numbers are growing.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: So, by the way, jump in and start forming those relationships before the door closes.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: It is the media landscape today.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: It just is and it's been.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: It's been a long time coming.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: It started with social and everyone kind of going online, but it's not about friends anymore.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: Like these platforms that your marketing team is talking about TikTok and Instagram and YouTube Sometimes.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: I have found it helpful to bring up the analogy of like it's like the rise of cable TV in the 80s and 90s.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Okay, where there was just like this like so much TV, right, and I feel like sometimes, providing and framing it in that long view of media transformation and entertainment consumption trends, it helps people realize what's happening around them now and take it more seriously and to take content creators more seriously.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: Because if you kind of do that comparison in your head and you think back to 1980s TV and rising TV personalities, then it can make sense.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: Maybe, I don't know, I guess, like then it makes sense that, okay, as people are spending more time on Reels and TikTok, you're watching videos or listening to podcasts like this, right, the creators they're going to for everything from like inspiration to lessons on how to raise my kids, to like home improvement or to just laughter.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: Right, there is like a deep connection there and trust developers and that's how it works, and so hopefully even just starting there makes the topic feel less like obscure or wishy-washy because it's not even a legitimate trend.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's a legitimate and lasting change to our media landscape today, right, and so that's the opportunity and the how of it that you're really asking me.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: So how do nonprofits tap into this trend and tap into creators?
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: That is going to vary.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: That's the experimentation.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: That's where we can experiment, right, not what we're going to do if we're going to do this, but like, how do we approach it.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: So, general points of guidance that I think work for people.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: One is you know everyone says, like start with your goal.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: I'm going to say start with your goal, but the reason is because you need to know that creators at different levels can do and help you achieve very different objectives.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: So, for example, say that you're working toward affecting people's opinions about a topic, or you want to make an issue more relevant and you want people to care to take action on it.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: Then I would say you know, generally speaking, think about creators on that kind of like micro influencer, nano influencer level, so people who have, you know, 100,000 or fewer followers, but really high engagement rates, but the engagement rates can be four times what you see with a mega content creator with over a million followers.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: So that does require us to be honest with ourselves, right?
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Like, do we care more about reach and mass awareness or is it about creating relevance and credibility?
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: You know what your goal is is going to determine everything else and put you on a different path and just affect all the other decisions that come from there.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: The other thing I would say is it's not a shortcut to anything, right?
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: So think about what you want your creators to do.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: Sometimes it's like well, who should they be?
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Who should they be?
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Will they say yes?
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Will they say yes?
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Okay, pretend that they're all saying yes.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: What do you want them to do specifically?
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: Often I've seen it's a campaign, which is a great start, but then you have to kind of ask yourself all right, so how do I make this campaign really conducive to effective no-transcript influence or integration?
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: Because those average engagement rates are just averages.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: They're not like a guarantee, right?
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: So for us, as social impact marketers, it's incumbent on us to make sure that the thing that we are asking content creators to do and to present to their audience, that it's going to perform well, that it's likely to resonate with their audience and get them to respond in the ways that we want.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: So I say it's not a shortcut, because sometimes I've seen it get treated like that.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: Really give love and care to the package that you're putting together and asking a creator to present on your behalf, and it will also get you more yeses.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: That's the other thing.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: The better your packages, more creators will say yes to supporting it and sharing it.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: The other thing that you said actually is like going to be my third thing I'm going to say, because it's perfectly what you said.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: One of the unique things about today so I mentioned like oh, it's like the 80s and 90s and that's how it's similar.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: Here's how it's totally unique is that our cultural content creators today, unlike the content creators of your like film and TV stars and authors and that sort of thing they're making their money off of what they post and share and so for them, if they agree to share about your organization, that is a donation.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: In their mind, they see it as like a quantifiable thing, that they gave you a gift and that's how we should see it and that's how we should treat it.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: So, the same way that I'm sure everyone listening has like a series of messages that they have prepared for someone who would cut them up 500 dollar check, right, looks like thank you, and here's where your contribution won.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: Here's what you helped achieve.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Right, have that at the ready for content creators who support you with their services.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Those would be my three things.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: I could give more, but I don't know like.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Those are like three good main ones that I think apply to most organizations.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: That's so good, netta, and this sounds nuanced or new maybe to you all, but it's not.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: This is what we do every day.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: We cultivate a donor to a point that we want them to take action, and we creatively think about the way that their philanthropy can come into our work in unique and interesting ways.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: That ripple and I'm really geeked out about this, netta.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: It just feels like this is here for the taking, for us, and, as a creative, I just think this is where we can get really creative.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: It's fun, it's joyful, it's lifting problems in unique ways.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: And for anybody who says I just don't know if we can get in this game, y'all, it's a $250 billion industry right now and Goldman Sachs is talking about.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: In four years it's going to double, it's going to be a half trillion dollar industry, and so we need to get in there, because we have good work, good stories and major problems that we need community wrapped around.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: And so I have to ask this to you, netta like give us a case study.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Who's doing this really well?
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Walk us through somebody who has actually put in this into practice and had a great outcome.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: Well, you're teeing me out, so I'm going to talk about Alima, oh.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Alima, yes, talk about that so we just wrapped like a year long campaign with Alima so you already kind of mentioned a car based NGO, relatively unknown in the States, and when they came to Nazarworks they wanted to build an audience in the US, an audience that they could cultivate into supporters in the long term and their focus area.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: They do a lot of different work, but the programs that they wanted to focus on were around respiratory health initiatives.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: The challenge was on that level like okay, well, we have to translate all this into a campaign and it has to feel like interesting, don't stress, start with the research.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: That's what we did.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: I follow my own advice and then that actually was a little more stressful because then, doing the research, we saw like this bigger challenge that we had to overcome and that was that the surgeon general was telling us that America had its own public health crisis and everyone's, like you know, crazy cynical and anxieties up over 40% and depression and a quarter of Americans are saying that they've turned inward and are more isolated.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: So I mean that's going to be hard for anyone, but as an unknown nonprofit and you're doing work that's like entirely disconnected from the audience that you're trying to build and talk to, you know, the cultural landscape was not voting well for social altruism.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: That was a bit sobering.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: But we saw I mean talk about markets that are like booming.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: We saw that people were seeking help and looking to things like meditation and mindfulness and breath work Just in 2023, it was like in the past year, breath work interest had gone up 40%.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: So we're like, okay, well, that's something.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: And it was like a $4 billion market and growing.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: So you know, on the one hand, you got this like respiratory patients who are literally dying because you know they don't have access to medical oxygen treatment to enable their breath, and then, on the other hand, you got this audience that you're trying to talk about that issue with and they're so like overstimulated and stressed that they are paying for reminders to breathe.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: So it was just like this, like poignant dichotomy for us and we knew we wanted to play there and there've been a lot of studies that show how audience mood affects things and we know like anxiety and feeling like you're on your own, that kind of depresses, giving, and we know that oxytocin can boost and empathy oxytocin and empathy feeling like someone actually has empathy and sees you can boost Not just giving but even your ability to share empathy with others, like when I'm talking about this.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: It's especially true when you're dealing about empathy between one to many, you know, like a group.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: That's usually when you're seeing, like when people are depressed or anxious or feeling alone.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that they don't have empathy for, like their friend, but it's like for a group of kind of nameless, faceless strangers.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: It's low.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: So we kind of had to pivot.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: We went back to Alima.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: They were very bold, so I'm very grateful.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: I always have to give them, like all this credit for being so bold.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Alima, for believing that marketing is mission.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because you know we were like, listen, this is what's happening.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: And so we think that we need to kind of pivot from making an appeal campaign and create like a service campaign and speak to the audience and what they're needing and what they're feeling right now and show them some empathy, because I don't think we can get them to really pay attention to you, right, they're not going to stop looking at themselves, they're not going to stop looking inward to look at Alima and your needs and your patients and their needs, right.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: So we decided to make a series of breathwork videos.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: We worked with a licensed practitioner.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: We really invested in the creative, like I said, like we got an artist six in five who's like has these are captivating 3D animations and tapped a sound agency to make like an 8D meditative track for us.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: And it was, you know, breath for all a series of breathwork exercises and the hope was that we could get people's attention by making, like you know, doing the package and make the package beautiful and thumb stopping and that sort of thing and get them to do the exercise, connect with themselves and, in doing that, connect with Alima and our cause through that simple act of breathing, which happens to boost oxytocin.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: So that's kind of like what I mean.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: That's my.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: That's an example of what I mean when I say, like you know, don't start on yourself.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: You know, like not getting stuck on ourselves and our programs and trying to like figure out a way to bundle all those programs into a tagline, right, but starting outside of ourselves and focusing first on our audience and what's happening in the world around us and then figuring out how we can fit what we're doing and the things that we want to talk about and need to talk about into that right, and letting letting the outside world and our audience kind of guide us.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I'm just like taking a back at how you've taken us into.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Like everybody can follow these steps because you remain curious.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: You were open-handed for how it was going to take shape, but you knew what your goal was.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Like that never like shifted, but the way it got delivered became so much more relevant and cut through and the thumb stopping.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Did you say thumb stopping?
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: I love that so much.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: That's Malo.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: Laura, I have to.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: That wasn't my line, I always say it, but that was the creative director.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: I mean, the struggle is real, right, yeah, it is.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: I think we all get that of like how do we connect the dots?
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: And it's like we're asking the wrong question and you just guided us so carefully through how you get into asking the right questions to figure this out.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: I don't know how you all feel.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: Like a lot of times I've been doing marketing a long time and I just a lot of times think like I don't know, it's just like a bunch of nothing, you don't know, like what you're doing, I don't know you know, that's how I.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: We're just trying stuff.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yes, that's how a lot of times I feel it's like you do it like kind of half-scared, because it's your job, so you got to do it.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: And every time, like I get surprised how, like all those little thoughtful details, they made a difference.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: And one for Alima.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: I will also say I'm glad that you like the campaign.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: I love it too, but it actually really did make a difference for them.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, their site traffic was up like more than double.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: The reach was crazy, like on social.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: They grew actually almost 50% on social just in two months and we looked at it.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: It would have taken them two and a half years to get to that point at the pace that they had been growing yeah.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Like so just think like that, their email audience grew like 14%, which is like a big.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: You know, that's like a nice huge amount of money.
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: Now you got those people right.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: Same with the social audience, but emails like whoa, and the goal was that we were going to bring audience that Alima could cultivate into supporters long term.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: So we did always offer people opportunities to give and support Alima right, including through donation, and we tracked along those metrics because presumably some people would start that giving and kind of conversion into supporters pretty quickly In terms of looking at how much Alima was growing donors year over year like new donors.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: That number was like up almost 70%, wow, as a result of the campaign.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: So it's like it's like a winning formula and it won.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: I mean I want to say, neda, good on you for building this steady plan, being this guide, but I'm saying good on Alima for playing the long game.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: I mean it's like one of our values that we teach of like it's not just about this campaign.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: They're in it for the long game, so they're playing these strategies that make so much more sense and cultivating believers around their mission Like what a cool case study that's so inspiring.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: Well, we have to kick it to you, yeah.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I mean they sound incredible.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: So I mean we love hearing all the details of that, but we also just as much love here in moments of philanthropy that like just rock us in our heart and soul, like the stats get us a lot of times, but also like these moments.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: I wonder if you'd take us back to a moment in your story that philanthropy has just like impacted you and stayed with you.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: This is like that first question kind of, you see what we did there, didn't you?
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: We just book into that that stuff on the front and the back.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: No, I don't think about this stuff and plan it like really well, yeah, um, okay, I will tell you this story.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: So I told you I'm Iranian and I told you my mom decided at like that six and seven that we were going to, you know, come to the States.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: So you can't like at that time, like you couldn't just get like a visa to come to America, okay, so you get a visa wherever someone's going to give you a visa.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: So we ended up in Switzerland and where we know nobody, and you know my mom is like five foot two hundred pounds, there's me, six, seven, my sister, like three these huge suitcases, no wheels on the suitcases, right, and we're just we got nowhere to go.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: Like we have nowhere to go.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: And I don't fully know that I'm like a question asker.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: I've always been a question asker but, like you know, I was like, okay, zip it, zip it.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: So you kind of like, okay, let's just like go with this moment.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: And we're just like weirdly, awkwardly, clunkily going through these streets of Switzerland, which is a beautiful place, but I don't know if you know they're not like welcoming to immigrants, they don't really like immigrants and like as a kid, you don't know that, but like you can know that.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: You know, like you can see it in the faces and like how they're talking to my mom, like the tone of voice and all that kind of stuff, right.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: And so there was, like I just remember, that feeling of being like just feeling really unwanted and exposed and vulnerable.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: Right, I'm going somewhere with this, but like, so the day goes on and it starts to get dark and I realize we don't have a place to go tonight.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: That's what my mom has been trying to kind of figure out.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: And now nightfall is coming and I'm like she's kind of getting more stressed and I'm like understanding what's happening and that sort of thing Out of nowhere this is how my mom says it Like she says this guy appears and leaves out of nowhere, like she thinks he was an angel.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: Truly, she truly thinks he was an angel.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: So he comes and she finds him, she grabs him and you know like she's getting like more bold, more desperate, communicate, to the point.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: He speaks English and understands, and other people speak English there too, but they just like don't want to, you know.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: So like, oh, get out of here, foreigner, you don't speak German.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: But so he engaged and so he starts to accompany us and he's carrying the suitcases and this sort of thing.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: We end up at some like hostile church thing and he's talking to the person and trying to kind of get us an accommodation.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: They're full, that's what they're kind of saying.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: And my mom just like like she can tell like on the other side of this, like where, where this night could go right and the next few days can go, because like it's like you're going to get a visa leave tomorrow.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: So she like just I just remember her like getting like you know, real begging, you know, and like pleading and the door closes and it's just like this, like moment of deep desperation.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: I just remember, like as a kid, just looking at the sky and being like hey Scott, like are you even there?
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: Like do you even care?
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: Do like what, do something?
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: And what was happening on the other side of that door?
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: Apparently there were these two Iranian women at the at the place and the guy was going to ask them if they would like let us in their room so they come back, open the door.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: Blah, blah, blah, let us in.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: That other guy, the nice man, he's gone.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: Okay, I don't remember.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: Mom never got to thank him and these.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: We end up in this room and, like you know, as a kid, like you always remember everything, like so big and then you go to your childhood home and it's like so small.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: I remember this place, so small, so I don't know what it, what it was.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: I remember it was teeny, tiny, it was like people and suitcases and we were crammed and it was uncomfortable.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: And the woman decided that you know they would share a bed and my sister and I got a bed and my mom slipped like on a blanket on the linoleum floor and you know, kind of like with those clothespin, like gave us a little drape to have my sister and I sleep while they did adult talking and planning.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: And I just remember feeling such relief and like gratitude and just feeling like it was so clear, like these women, just because they're Persian, like they're on vacation, Can you imagine like being on vacation and then you let like a family of three strangers with problems, like we're a drama pack, into your vacation?
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: They were so obviously uncomfortable, um, but just kind of doing it because they thought it was like the right thing and like I got that.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: I got that at that age Didn't know the word for sacrifice, but I knew what was happening and I just remember being like they're so nice, this is kindness.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: You know, this is kindness and I just I just will never forget it and I think I think that was like one of those times where I just said you know, that's how I want to be like, I want to be kind like that and that was my I don't know if it was like my only or my, it wasn't my only because, you know, when you have needs, like people come into your life and they fill your needs, and so you keep being reintroduced to kindness, but it was just like a very desperate time, so it was like a very poignant memory.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: I want to know what your mom's name is.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: Zora, you could just say Zoe Zora.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Zora yeah, zora, I just don't think you can be a human and hear that story and not be affected and not feel what you're feeling and be there with you and go back to your six year old self.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: I was the big sister too and I think about my sister and I are three years apart the level of protection that I had for her times in our life.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: When we're so desperate and I just think the world is really hard for most people right now and we're all looking around wondering what does it mean and how do I fit in, and I just think what you just said is the answer that we can all show up, we can give what we have, we can be kind, we can look around for those that don't have enough, that have some little hole, that we can fill in the gap.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: And I just think about the courage and the bravery and the kindness of strangers and how that has uplifted the world and how it has uplifted our work.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: This is what nonprofit was founded on, like we're talking about orphanages and hospitals and people coming together and just saying I want to help people and so I'm an emotional wreck.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I love you so much.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: I just think that that is how our humanity comes out in our work.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: It's just moments like that that remind us of what a beautiful thing we're able to do with just having these conversations and sharing these stories.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: So, thank you.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: And now, how in the world am I going to wrap it up with a one good thing?
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: So we do end all our conversations with this question Nada, and it's just a what's a one good thing?
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: You could offer up to this audience a piece of advice.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's a quote or thought you live by.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Can't wait to hear what you have to give.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: You're not going to like what I have to give because I can't wait.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: I know I really can't wait.
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: I did not want this question and I didn't.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: I actually looked, so my one good thing like the thing that I do, my habit is a swat.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: Ok, it's just talked about that yesterday, so boring and I went and I googled, like you know, on keyword trend, like things to talk about that Gpt help me make this cooler.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: But it was just like OK, that's my thing, I live by it.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: It's like, especially at the recording, there's like a million things happening.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: It's like how I started and and ended every like event, initiative, program and, and it guided like everything along the way.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: And I think this is what I came up with, because I was kind of defensive about the fact that people would probably I roll me and I think that for people who don't like it, they've probably done it right, like a not a new thing.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: What are your strengths, what are your weaknesses, what are your opportunities?
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: Right, they've probably done it, but I think maybe they haven't done it right.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: That's what I think.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: I think that because how can it not be helpful to really do it?
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: So that's my one good thing Try and do it regularly.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: Don't just do it for, like your big initiatives, do it regularly so that it just kind of creates like a culture of self reflection and self directed growth, self directed improvement.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: You know, like across your team.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: That's, I think, like how I also got like a lot of like collaboration and engagement across the team, like because it just became like our vibe, it just became the thing that we did.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: It will transform your team.
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: It will transform your results Like it will just feel good and it's a game changer.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: That's my thing works.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: That's the best thing have us in the palm of your hand too.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, you've given us so much value, so much depth to this conversation.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: I just feel gratitude for your family story that led you to be able to sit here and kind of have these types of experiences and success to teach thousands of people that are going to be touched by this episode.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: So I just want to thank you for being here today, and how can folks connect with you?
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be following you and following along on your journey, so link up all the ways, share your website and where you show up online.
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: First of all, thank you so much.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having this podcast and thank you for letting me be on it and for chatting with me and for being so kind and making me feel comfortable.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: So thank you.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: In terms of me, I'm on LinkedIn.
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, like I'm always on, so you can find me, netta Azafa, at LinkedIn and you can also just shoot me a note, hello at Nazarworks, and I will say hi back.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Not only will she say hi, you're going to get the greatest, most kind human being that's really taking you and to her hand.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what I feel today.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: I just am so proud that you are part of this impact uprising that we are trying to build to just make generosity, make philanthropy accessible to everyone.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: It's good for the community, it's good for us.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Everybody wins and you are such a hallmark of it, rooting you on and all the things that really you are so kind, you just made my day, thank you.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being here.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Friends, and you probably hear it in our voices, but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: We'd love for you to come join our good community.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: It's free and you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Sign up today at weareforgoodcom.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Backslash hello.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: And one more thing if you love what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast writing interview?
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: It means the world to us and your support helps more people find this community.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much, friends.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Can't wait for our next conversation.