Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Eva Zu Beck on Inspiring Ourselves and Others to Travel the World

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Eva Zu Beck on Inspiring Ourselves and Others to Travel the World · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: host Scott Brady, and today we have a very special
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: guest in Eva zubek. Eva is a Polish traveler that
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: migrated to the UK at a young age and attended
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Oxford University where she gained her language degrees. But this
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: just sparked her desire to travel and she became a
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: popular television host and ultimately now has a YouTube channel
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: with one point five million subscribers. But at her heart,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Eva is an Overlander and she's currently traveling in her
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Defender one ten the length of the Americas. Our wide
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: ranging conversation includes ways that she stays healthy mentally and
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: physically on the road, how she travels solo with her dog,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: and her aspirations for talking about the healthy benefits of
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: travel around the world. And a special thanks to Nimble
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Vehicles for supporting this week's podcast. Nimble Vehicles has been
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the leading manufacture of extreme expedition vehicles since twenty nineteen.
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  Speaker 1: of time. To find out more information, visit Nimble Vehicles
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: dot com online or you can email info at Nimble
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  Speaker 1: Vehicles dot com for more information. Thanks again, Nimble Steva,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the podcast. And
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: you're here with your puppy dog Viilk as well.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: So for those that are listening and watching on YouTube,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: we have a beautiful dog that we've got with us.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: He looks like a German shepherd. Is that right?
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: That's exactly it.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, and we'll talk about your puppy here in a
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: little bit. But what I want to start to understand
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: is you went from essentially Poland to London to Nepal,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: as I understand, and that was I would love to
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  Speaker 1: understand a little bit about what inspired you to move
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: from Poland to London and then what made you think
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: about buying a one way ticket to Nepal.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I moved from Poland to the UK with my family.
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  Speaker 2: So it wasn't exactly my decision, okay, it was one
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  Speaker 2: of those economic decisions for my family where, you know,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: around that time in Poland, things weren't exactly going terribly
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: well in you democracy, and so my mom made a
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: decision to move away in such a better work opportunities,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: and so I moved with her.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: And how how old were you when that happened. I
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: was twelve, Okay, So that's where that's where the accent
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: is a little bit more ingrained, because I your English
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: accent is more prominent.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bit of a mixed People say I
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: sound Australian. Sure, But when I first moved to the UK,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I could speak like, only very basic English. So that
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: was kind of an interesting experience, kind of getting thrown
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: into a completely new country culture school, you know, without
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: really having mastered the language yet. So I would say
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: that was kind of like my first real travel experience,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: except it was real life. You know, it is an.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Amazing travel experience. Yeah.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know a few years later, obviously things
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: became It was just kind of it just became life.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: But yeah, like that, not knowing the language that really
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: kind of inspired me to learn more languages, and so
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: I ended up studying French and German at university in
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: the UK. And then I think partly that's kind of
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  Speaker 2: what was responsible for having the confidence to then just
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: go out into the world and not worry too much
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  Speaker 2: about well, you know, communicating with people and kind of
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: making my way, navigating my way across the world.
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  Speaker 1: I find that so interesting. And when I was researching
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: your bio, the languages did come up, and I found
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: that so was your interest in language just understanding these
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  Speaker 1: other cultures, or it was it because you did want
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: to go to those places you wanted to travel.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think honestly there was that subconscious element of
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: wanting to travel that I just didn't quite know yet
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: at that time. The travel bug is something that I've
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: really had, like kind of running in my family. And
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: so when we kind of, you know, kind of fast
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: forward a couple of decades, I decided to kind of
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: quit my job in London go traveling. And you mentioned Nepal.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: That was my very first destination when I started traveling
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  Speaker 2: full time. And you know, like people often ask me
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  Speaker 2: out what inspired that, Like were they you know, why
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  Speaker 2: did you want to travel? And I think it all
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  Speaker 2: kind of goes back to my grandfather, who, back when
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  Speaker 2: Poland was still under communist rule, managed somehow to find
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  Speaker 2: his way out of the country and travel around the world,
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  Speaker 2: which was very, very difficult at that time. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: those were the times in Poland where like you couldn't
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: even have your passport at home, you had to store
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: your passport at the police station. Interesting and then ask
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: for permission, apply for like official permission to even leave
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: the country. And so my grandpa did that against all odds,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: against all restrictions. It's very difficult before Google mass, before
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: the internet, before like even travel sales agents. And he
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: would go to countries that, you know, back then again
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  Speaker 2: for Poland, were like extremely remote like Mexico, China, Kenya,
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  Speaker 2: you know, incredible.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And what's even more incredible, and this is kind of
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  Speaker 2: where mine my grandpa's stories merge, is that whenever he
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: came back from his trips and they were like you
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: there was pretty long trips a month to month, three months,
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  Speaker 2: he would write up travel chronicles from those trips, so
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  Speaker 2: very detailed kind of reports of the whole trip, what
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: he did, how he felt, what he experienced, and he
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: would kind of decorate the travel chronicles, as he called them,
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  Speaker 2: with like photos and postcards and souvenirs. I just remember
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: when I was a kid, I would like sit there
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  Speaker 2: and just lose myself and these travel chronicles, you know, and.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Still have them. Yeah, we have all of that amazing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So whenever I'm back home, I just always like
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: make some time to sit down and kind of look
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: at them again. And when my grandfather passed away when
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I was seven years old, I feel like I kind
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: of kept that part of him in me. Like that's
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: because I always really looked up to him. He was
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  Speaker 2: my biggest role model, and I feel like that was
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  Speaker 2: my way of kind of holding on to him after
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: his passing, and so I grew just really really attached
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  Speaker 2: to them and also to him. I think that's kind
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: of how it all started, because he really inspired me
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  Speaker 2: with his writings and his storytelling that I feel like
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  Speaker 2: I just just kind of decided to do that yeah
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  Speaker 2: as well, just in a very different format.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: And what was his name and then was Leshik? So yeah,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: thank you Lushek for helping to inspire Evah. It's amazing
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  Speaker 1: how people in our lives can be such an inspiration.
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  Speaker 1: And I've shared the story on the podcast before, but
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  Speaker 1: I remember being at the border of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: and we picked up a Russian hitchhiker and she left
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  Speaker 1: with five dollars in her pocket.
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  Speaker 2: Wow.
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  Speaker 1: But she was so compelled to see the world. And
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  Speaker 1: I think that sometimes that is innate within us. Sometimes
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: we learn it along the way, but it very much
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: seems like it was innate to your grandpa and to you, Yeah,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: like you had to do it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. I definitely didn't know it back then, of course.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And it only like really hit me a couple of
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: years back when I was kind of trying to think, well,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: why why do I love? Like why am I even
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: doing this? You know, like what was the real reason?
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: And then's that kind of kind of when it clicked. Oh, well,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: of course it was him, you know. So yeah, so
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  Speaker 2: I'd like to think that he's still somewhere around here,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: somewhere with me.
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  Speaker 1: And do you have something of his that you travel with?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I have like a tiny little blue beetle that
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  Speaker 2: he got me from Egypt many many years ago. So
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: that's that's in the truck.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. So he's along for the journey. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: in many ways for sure. And so a trip to
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  Speaker 1: Nepal would be very unusual because it is such a
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  Speaker 1: different culture and it's a very different demographic than you
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: would experience in the London area. What did you feel
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  Speaker 1: about that first trip? What did that How did that
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  Speaker 1: change you or start to change you as a traveler?
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  Speaker 2: You know, Nepal is a kind of interesting destination because
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  Speaker 2: I went there straight from a very profound personal crisis
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: just prior to that trip. For five years before that,
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  Speaker 2: I was working in London, between London and Russo, so
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: I was a manager at like a very high, like
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: high growing, fast growing startup. I was very successful. I
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: was making really good money, you know, enjoying all the
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: like privileges and glamour of living in London. And I
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: was married as well, so it was a very different
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: kind of life. And there came a time where I
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: just kind of started questioning everything in my life and
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: what I was doing and I was in that relationship
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: that I was in and kind of came very slowly
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: and gradually and painfully to the conclusion that I was
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: doing it all for the wrong reasons. I kind of
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: ended up on this I like to call it like
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: the highway of life, and there were all these exits
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: all around me, but I just never took them. I
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: was just kind of like so laser focused on being
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: this person, this like successful London, you know, media manager,
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: person with a great sparkling stellars, you know, personal life,
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  Speaker 2: and that I just I was just completely blind to
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: my own happiness. I was just doing these things without
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: really thinking about why I was doing them. I was
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: doing them for the status basically. And when I realized that,
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: of course, when you realize something like that, you can
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: see it, you can't see it, yeah, and either you
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: choose to just just do it anyway because it's it's easy,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: or you have to make a change. And so I
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: decided to make a change. So Nepal was kind of
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: interesting because that's when I decided that I'm going to
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: go and do this travel vlogging thing. I'm going to
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: start making videos and travel storytelling like my grandpa. Nepal
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: is a bit of a cliche destination for that. Honestly,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: it's kind of like eat, Prey Love.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know that though we just don't know that
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: in the beginning, and that's just okay, sure, yeah.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: It was like it was kind of like this cliche
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: of this like twenty five year old London girl like
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: going out into the world to like find herself, you know,
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: and now I see that, But but I think it
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: was necessary because I think some of these experiences we
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: just really need them, and I needed that. I needed
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: an appall in my life at that stage. And so
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I went on the Evers Base Camp track and it
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: was so hot at that time, you know, because you know,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: I just came straight from the city and didn't know
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: anything about hiking and I went on this big hike
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: just because my friend told me to.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: And it is a big hike. My first hike is
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: going to be the Everest Space Camp. Like it it's like,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: what are you thinking?
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: And it was and it was really hard in so
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: many ways, physically and mentally and emotionally, and it was
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: just just that like trigger that I needed to realize,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: oh my god, it's hard, but I love it, like
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I love being out in nature. It's just so amazing,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: so beautiful, so all inspiring. So I think that that trip,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: as clichees, it was really kind of set a direction
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: for me in terms of like I just realized how
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: much I love nature and adventure and wild things, something
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: that the city just never gave me before.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: That's kind of to get out of the comfort. Yeah,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: otherwise we're in seventy well in fahrenheit, we're in seventy
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: two degrees every day. We have everything we need. The
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: food is prepackaged. Yeah, it all tastes good. There's no hardship,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: no hardship exactly, And I think I think human beings
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: were wired for a little bit of that, Like we
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: don't want to seek out those, we don't want to
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: seek out something negative. But I think hardship can be
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: very positive.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Actually, yes, absolutely. I mean it pushes you to learn
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: about yourself, learn what you're capable of, things that you
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: never thought you'd be capable of. Right, forces you to
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: enter that that kind of fear and push through it
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: despite it.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Right, what was the first thing that you were afraid
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: of that you did push through? That you that you
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: look back and you think, I'm really proud of myself
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: for overcoming that.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: So this is going to sound really trivial, but I
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: think it's actually something that a lot of people struggle
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: with you know a lot of people like in the
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: content sphere, let's put it that way. For me or
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: something that was really really difficult was like being out
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: in public and filming myself talk to a camera out
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: of public for the first time. Oh my god, that
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: was so awkward. I just felt so awkward. I was like, oh,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: like everybody staring at me, like I'm just talking to
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: my camera. Everybody thinks I'm like super weird. Like still
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: feel awkward, No, don't really, I mean sometimes still.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Totally feels awkward, like what am I doing? I'm that
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: guy right now Scott vlog exactly.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: But the more you do it, the more you realize that,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: like people don't care anywhere near as much as you think, right.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, about anything. People don't care about anything that you're doing.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: You care about what they're doing.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And if they if they stare, it's usually because
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: they're curious, not because they're judging you. You know. So
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: that was like at the very start of this YouTube journey.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I remember, like distinctly the first video that I ever made.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: It was actually in my hometown and it's this is
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: in Poland. Poland is like relatively conservative, it's not like
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: in the US, where you know, you do whatever you want,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: like people will still look at you weird in Poland,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: so I'm just like walking around town with his camera
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: and just talking into the camera and in English, you know,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: and people are just like, I'm just like gonna stop.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to make a video. And that video
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: is still up on my channel. It's the first video ever,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: and it is awkward, and you can tell that I'm
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: feeling awkward in the video as well. But you just again,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: you just have to push through these things and just
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: do them anyway.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that I hadn't
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: had the chance to see your channel until just a
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: few days ago, and that was a takeaway from me.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Is I can see that in the very beginning you
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: were trying to figure out who you were, but you
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: were also still being very honest to that fact, your
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: more current content is very much you. It seems like
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: you're not trying to put on too much of a facade. Yeah.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I think that's important though.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so true, but it takes a lot of
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: time and practice, and I think a lot of people
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: never get there because it is excruciatingly difficult to be
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: honest on social media. It is I think one of
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: the most difficult things that anyone can do, because you
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: are out there putting yourself out there in a really
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: vulnerable place, and people judge, people judge. You know, there's comments,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: there's comments sections, and there's a general sense of energy
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: that you get as well. I think for the first
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: couple of years on social media, I was making videos
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: not so much about myself but about, you know, kind
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: of the places that I was visiting. That was the idea.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: It was travel content in that kind of typical travel sense,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: like I was a presenter of the place. I wasn't
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: eva doing my life thing, you know, I was. I
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: was presenting the place, and started that for a couple
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: of years, and then kind of eventually started realizing that
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be presenting anything to anyone. All
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: I want to present at most is just maybe just
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: my life. That's all I can present, so to speak.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Of course, that's not a very good word to use.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Maybe I would say, like the only story that I
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: can tell is my own story. That's kind of what
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I realized a little while into the whole YouTube journey.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: But it wasn't easy because every time you put yourself
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: out there as a human with weaknesses and strengths but
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: also weaknesses, you are kind of exposing something that up
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: until then was very personal in private, and that only
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: maybe the people that were closest to you knew about.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Now it's out there for millions of people to see
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: and comment on and make up their mind and make
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: their judgments. But I don't regret it, and I found
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: kind of ways to deal with that pressure as well.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: So there are some examples of how you deal with
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: that pressure.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I only read YouTube comments for the first hour after
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: I publish each video, and then I stop reading.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I think Joe Rogan's got it. He did post and ghost.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And people are like, why don't you read the comments?
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like, have you seen the comments? Like I would
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: definitely need a therapist every time I said, DoD to
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: read the comments. Just can't do that.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: It's difficult. But the first hour is an interesting idea
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: because it's probably your subscribers, yes, which means that they
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: already have an appreciation for what you do or connection
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: to your story, and they're likely to be a little
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: more thoughtful.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: That's exactly it. They know the context, they know the background, right,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: rather than a complete stranger who's the first time into
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: your content, comes in there and just like writes a
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: thoughtless comment because they just have no idea what you're about.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: So that's exactly it, you got it.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: We get a lot of negative comments on our stuff,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: but it's usually like Ford suck or something, something just
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: so ridiculous that like, I literally can't be too offended
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: by it. Like every once in a while somebody will
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: say that, I, you know, look ridiculous or something, but
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: it does make me laugh. But I can see why
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: having so much of yourself personally out there can be challenging.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: But that's that's a good suggestion that first hour, and
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: then you kind of let it go into the universe
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: after that, I.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Mean, you know, you kind of got to get on
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: with your life and start focusing on the creative and
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: productive stuff for like the next episode, rather than the
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: reactive stuff following an episode that you've already created, a
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: story that you've already put out into the world.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Right, It's it works, And that is the challenge with
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: social media is you can spend so much time on
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: social media that you don't actually get to produce the
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: content that you need to post in social media. So
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I think having those boundaries are really important.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember a YouTube friend shed a really great
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: piece of advice with me a little while back, and
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: he said, this was like during a really bad hate
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: campaign a few years back. He was like, the more
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: you give into that hateful energy, the more they're winning
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: because they're taking away your creative energy from you. You
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: are just sitting there reacting and reacting, reacting, and you
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: are draining yourself all of all the amazing things that
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: you could be doing with that energy right now, creating
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: beautiful things. And so I think that was kind of
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: the moment where I was like, yeah, you're right. I
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: just got to focus on being on making, on creating,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: not you know, sitting there and kind of giving into negativity.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Oh that's smart. It's why I took most of the
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: social media channels off my phone and now they're only
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: on my iPad.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Ooh nice.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: So it does give another level of boundary for me
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: because we get a lot of comments, and if I
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: sit down with the iPad, then I'm being intentional about
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I'm going to work for an hour or so and
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: then I'm going to put it away.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Ita as opposed to it, just like this constant loop. Yes,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: now you talk a little bit about traveling on your website,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: about traveling wholeheartedly. I can see some of that coming
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: out in our commentary so far. But what are other
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: things that you do, Like what's your process or meditation
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: or whatever it is that you do to help yourself
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: feel on most stage that you are traveling wholeheartedly?
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think, you know, For me, it's all about
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I know that this journey is my life, so I
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: try and stay present in it as much as possible.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: And one kind of thing that I've learned along the
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: way that has really helped me do that is I
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: stopped expecting the road to help me find myself. I
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: used to think that, you know, going traveling, I would
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: like find myself and that's so common though. Yeah, yeah that,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: But kind of recently I realized that I don't ever
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: want to find myself. I mean, it would be very
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: sad if I found myself, because that would mean that
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: I stopped changing that this is it for me, this
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: is this is now the static me that will forever
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: be me. I don't want that, you know, And so
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I think, like for me every day on the road
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: is an opportunity to to seek a new part of myself,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: to learn something about the world, about myself, about whatever,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: and to kind of like just be so immersed in
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: that journey, to take as much from it as I
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: possibly can, even if it's just just a moment of
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: feeling really really present, you know, I feel like that
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: has the potential to change you, and so kind that's
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: kind of what I do. I guess I just just
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: try and be still sometimes and and just let the
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: road do its thing and be really receptive to that.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I think, like I just try and stay open.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: The interesting reality is that the only version of our
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: self that exists is the one in this very moment, Yeah,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: the version that was years ago that's gone. Yeah, And
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: actually we have no idea what we're going to be
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: or if we'll even be here in the next moment.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: So the only version of ourself that we actually get
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: to enjoy is the version right now as we're talking
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: on a podcast.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: So like that's the only version of ourself that we get. Yeah,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of people sell that short.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: They don't appreciate who they are in the moment that
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: they're healthy, and that they're breathing, and that they're aware
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: and that they're maybe having an interesting conversation. Yeah, exactly,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: These moments are pretty powerful. Yeah, you travel solo now,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: although you do have a recent addition which we'll talk
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: about Bilk in a little moment. But what made you
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: choose to do that and how have you found that
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: that has influenced your travel or changed you by traveling.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: When I started traveling alone and making YouTube videos, part
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: of the reason why I wanted to do what I
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: did was because I saw that there was a big
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: empty space on YouTube where there should be adventurous women
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: doing adventurous stuff alone. Absolutely, there are loads of women
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: like that, and there always have been, just at that
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: time not so many of them were making videos on
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: YouTube for people to watch and see and get inspired by.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of guys doing great stuff, just
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: not so many girls. I kind of made it my
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: mission to do that because I was like, well, I mean,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: is it just is because pep are not interested?
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: That can't be it. Is it just because just nobody
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: has done it quite consistently yet? And so I decided
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: to become that person to kind of like create this
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: niche of solo female travelers who go to of the
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: been path destinations. I'm not talking about like Thailand or Bali,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: you know, that's a whole other thing. I went to
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: places like Pakistan and Iran and Iraq and kind of
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: like I wanted to show that women can go to
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: those places kind of have a great time, because look
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: at this girl, she's having an awesome time, and yeah,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: she's doing it exactly. So I kind of wanted to
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: share that sense of possibility with the world. And again,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: there are loads of women doing all those things already,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: but just not so much on social media back then,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: and so I really like, I feel like that was
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: kind of my fuel at that stage.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Trail blazer.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean in a sense, I mean I
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: wasn't really trailblazing anything.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I was just just on social media.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Where I was just sharing it on social media and yeah,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: and that's kind of what really inspired me and fueled
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: me from the get girl. And that's kind of also
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: why I just never wanted to give up my soul
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: of female traveling ways, because I feel like my job
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: is not done yet and there's still so many things
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: that I can show that women can do. I know,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: it's a little bit different here in the United States,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: but like again just coming from a slightly different background,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: and again having travel to places like Pakistan, India, and
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: you know, a lot of really conservative countries where women
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: don't have those same possibilities or opportunities. I would say
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: that one of the best parts of my work is
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: when I get a message from someone saying, oh, hey,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: so I was you know, my family and I watched
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: your videos and they let me go on this trip
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: by myself, you know, because of your videos, or like
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: or a father emailing me saying, hey, like, I was
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: just encouraging my daughter to like go and travel on
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: her own because of your videos, because you can do it,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: so she can.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Do it as well.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: So having that is I find just really empowering and
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: really beautiful and yeah and so important, so important. So
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I'm just probably just kinda keep traveling on my own
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: because I feel like there's there's a lot of meaning
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: in there for a lot of.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: People too, and it seems like it's working super well
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: for you. I mean, and it doesn't mean that you
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: don't get to meet people, yeah, way exactly, So you're
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: actually never alone alone yea for big chunks of time
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: exactly rack with people, probably even on a daily basis.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: I would say traveling alone, you traveling solo, you're never
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: alone because there's so many opportunities to meet people everywhere.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: And it's actually probably even easier to meet people when
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: you're on your own, because you know, usually when you're
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: traveling with a group or even with a partner, you
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: kind of like stick together and that's enough company, right,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: But when you're alone, you kind of seek out other
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: people and you maybe stay in hostels where there's always
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: other travelers, and so I just find it a lot
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: easier to actually meet others. And it's you know, and
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: if you're a bit introverted, like, it's perfect because it
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: gives you that balance of like, oh, you can have
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: your me time and then you can go out there
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: and explore the world.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: And would you because you also do seem very extroverted,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: so you like the extroverted introvert.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm one of those.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah totally. Well, so then let's talk about Bilk. When
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: did you get your puppy? And he still he still
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: looks like a puppy, just a big, big puppy.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Huge puppy. I got here five months ago in Montana,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: and I like, I've always wanted to have a dog.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with dogs. The part of the big reason
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: why I started traveling over land with my rig is
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: because I knew that eventually I would want to introduce
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: a dog into my life and travel the world with
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: a dog. So that's kind of also why I stopped
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: taking planes, part of the reason why I stopped taking
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: planes and all that stuff. And so, yeah, he's been
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: with me for five months and I'm just getting him
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: used to traveling, traveling the world. He's a pretty well
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: traveled dog already for how young he is.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: He's so well trained. Earlier, for those that are listening,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: when we were walking into the studio, Bilki stopped at
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: the threshold to go into the building and Ava just said, okay,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: you can what did you sit with free? Free? And
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: then he went in. I've never seen a dog do
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: that ever, with it like stopped at a door. So
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: that was really impressive.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: A good boy.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, but I can see how hard you're working on that,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: because he is going to be exposed to so many
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: new things, and he's going to be in places that
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: could be unsafe for him. Yeah, like around roads and
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: other dogs and military checkpoints or whatever he needs to
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: behave in a certain way exactly, So I can see
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: why you take that so seriously, very seriously.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, you know, I never wanted to be
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: a mom, like I never wanted to have kids, but
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: I feel like I've just been tricked into having a kid.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: It kind of feels like that, Yeah, totally.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I love the little guy, but yeah, he's
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: a handful for sure.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Well that's great. How do you feel like that changed
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: your travels? Introducing a pop to your to your life
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: and the good ways and the bad The.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Obvious bad ways would be you can't go into like
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: restaurants or shops or you know, museums and things like that.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: That's fine, but I don't really care, so it doesn't
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: really affect me very much. There's you know, you can't
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: go on hikes and national parks, but again, I don't
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: really like national parks so much like I don't like
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: the restrictive vibe slash of bogs, So that's not something
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: that I really mind. One thing that definitely for me
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: personally like was a huge change is that I now
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: have to plan things.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I gotcha, I am like quite as as free flowing.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I never used to plan anything. I would
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: just like go and then stop wherever, you know, And
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: now I actually have to plan because he can't be
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: in the car for too long or like we need
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: to be here like all this stuff. So I feel
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: like it's made me more responsible.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: More Like just dogs make us better humans.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I think they really do. Yes, they so do. And honestly,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: like he filled a gap that I didn't even know
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I had. Like it's amazing just just having this little
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: like fluffball you can just keep your company, makes you
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: smile love. Yeah, And I now can't really imagine my
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: life without him. I think it would just feel a
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: bit more empty.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: So and he needs you, so it's nice to be
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: needed and to have that structure totally. Yeah.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: So it's like I would say, it's very hard. It's
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: really hard, especially on the road. Like the other month,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I was up in Alaska with a couple of friends.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: We're traveling to Prudo Bay and they're also on a
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: Defender and they're a couple, right, and it was kind
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: of funny to see the comparison between their truck and
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: my truck. So their truck was always like pristinely clean.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: It was just so nice. You know, there was like space,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: like you could actually see like the little hallway in
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: the back, you know, like you could see the seats.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like junk lying on the seats, and it
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: was just always so nice and clean. And then you
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: look at my truck and it's just filled with dog hair,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: dog toys, like dog food everywhere, you know, just the
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: mess all the time. And so in a way, you know,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: you kind of give that up as well, You kind
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: of give up that pristine cleanliness and you just have
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: to manage the chaos a little bit somehow, you know. Yeah,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: that's definitely changed. But I'm a very chaotic person, so
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: I don't particularly in mind.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: It seems like that's another fun way to show your
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: audience that reality again, like my truck is not instagram
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: perfect every minute. No, it's got puppy hair everywhere and
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: there's drool all across the window the window. Yeah, but
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: I think that that's another neat way to show people
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: like how real life is when you're traveling around the world.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people want to travel with
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: their dogs, yeah, or they would love to travel with
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: the dog, so I think that it's that's another option
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: that you have to inspire people to do that for sure.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, I think, yeah, it's doable, but you definitely
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: need to be very very committed. Yeah, so only for
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: the not faint of heart, But.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: It seems to be more common, which is good. So
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: people are starting to do that more often. They're starting
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: to travel more often with dogs, which I think is
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: really really fun. So speaking of kind of life on
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: the road, one of the challenges for many of us
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: as content creators is how do we get work done
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: when we travel? So you produce, do you also edit
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: your own videos as well?
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Not anymore?
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Not anymore? Okay, So that's really nice to have. So
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: that's someone that's supporting you. Do you have any other
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: support roles that are making life a little easier for you?
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So the first two years of my kind of
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: YouTube journey, I did everything by myself, so filming, editing,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: being my own accountant, like being my own business manager,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: all that stuff, right, because I mean, you're starting out,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: so you like I didn't have the budget to hire anyone.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: And also it's great because you get to learn about
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: every single step of the process, so you become a
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: real expert at your own business.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Basically.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I did that in actually for three years, did
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: that all by myself. And then I came to a
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: point in my life where I realized, I am not
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: publishing videos on a weekly basis. I'm not being consistent.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I am not making the videos that I'd like to
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: be making because I don't have time to make them
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: beautiful and amazing. And so I was just finding myself
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: more and more overwhelmed and kind of like on the
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: verge of burnout. So my channel was growing really fast.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: I was traveling to all these amazing places, but like
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: I would just film and then go back to my
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: hotel room and then just have to sit there and edit,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: edit for like half the night, wake up the next day,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: go go, go, go, go, then go back edit, edit,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: And it was just such a I felt like I
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: had created this life of freedom for myself, but I
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: was taking that freedom away from me because I was
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: restricting myself because I didn't have time to enjoy it,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: you know. So I was making videos, but it was
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: just so draining. That's kind of when I decided to
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: make a change and eventually found an editor who's been
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: working with me for two years and she now, like
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: we work very closely on each edit. Of course, you know,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: each video has you know, I kind of film it
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: and then we kind of go through through the concept
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: and the script together, and then she kind of puts
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: together the first version and then we did feedback loops
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: and all that kind of good stuff. So it's still
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: very collaborative and it's still very me. But having an
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: editor now that I found my voice on social media
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: just really helps me actually be able to enjoy my
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: life as well.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, it's nice. It's super nice. And then
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: where do they live in the world?
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: So she lives in Slovenia, Okay.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: So and then so the only thing you have to
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: deal with probably right now is the time change. Yes,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: it's a little bit more of a challengehich is actually.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Quite nice because like I send her to stuff and
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: then I go to sleep, and then when I wake up,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: she sends.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Me something something to check out.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: So it actually works pretty well. And in addition to Raya,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: who like I just she's like the most important person
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: in my life. In addition to Ry, you've.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Got to have a Raya or a Paula. Total life
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: does not continue.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I also have a couple of other people working
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: with me. I have Lola who works with me on
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: like logistics and business stuff as well, and there's Caro
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: who works on my other YouTube channel, which is a
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: whole other thing. So yeah, so there's we're like a
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: small team, which is that nice.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: But it also allows you to have a lax morning,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: walk your dog, yeah, exactly, have like hobbies. Yeah, so
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: then how do you how do you structure your work week?
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Do you just kind of when the opportunity arises to
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: get work done, do you do it? Or do you
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: do you schedule like a day I'm going to work
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: on Wednesday?
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Since I usually upload videos on Saturdays, I always
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: always always make sure that on Friday I am somewhere
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: with good internet access so I can upload that video,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: write up the title, the thumbnail, you know, kind of
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: prepare the video, and then usually I like to be
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: online on Saturday when it goes live as well, so
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: that I can kind of see how it goes, you know.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: So that's like that, I'll say that that's the one thing. Yeah,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: But other than that, no, I mean with the you know,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: when you're out on the road, it's kind of hard
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: to predict things. Even if you plan ahead. Sometimes the
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: road is just so long and so empty that you
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: can't find a place to sit down and work, you know,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: so you just kind of have to adjust. So I
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: just kind of take it as it comes, you know.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: And you said when we were walking this morning, you
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: said that, but yesterday was your longest driving day? Did
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: you think in your whole trip? Yeah?
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Three hundred miles? Wow?
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in a Defender one ten Yeah, that's that is
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of miles. It was long.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I try not to like do these extremely
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: long drive days unless I absolutely have to, sure, because yeah,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: I mean I like to just be able to enjoy
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, and take my time. Well that's and that's
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: part of the reason why you're traveling. Okay, let's talk
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: about speaking of the Defender, let's talk a little bit
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: about that. So what made you decide on traveling around
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: the world in a land Rover Defender?
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: It was this, It wasn't this.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: That's every land Rover owner. Ye. Literally, you bought with
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: your heart, not with your head.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, that's exactly it. It's one of those decisions
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: that you make which are like It's just an emotional decision.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: It is not a rational decision at all. If I
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: was making a rational decision, I probably would have bought
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: a van. Honestly. It would have been much easier, much
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: more comfortable. Yeah, but I just like that car just
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: has soul, It just has something really special. Like every
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: time I sit in that truck, I have a smile
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: on my face, you know. And I didn't think that
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: would happen with a van. It would be it would
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: just be a van. Yeah, this is Odyssey the Defender.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: You know, my baby, it's my girl.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: So what's this statement on the side of it, something
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: about the brave?
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: The world belongs to the brave.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: There we go. Yeah, and I think buying a Defender
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: one tend to drive around the world solo is a
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: brave act, batically as I as I look at my
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: own leaking Defenders over here in the corner.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. On the other hand, it's just one of those
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: cars that really, I know, it's just a car, but
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: it's also not just a car because it really brings
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: people together.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: For sure. They do make people smile. Everybody's got a
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: story about a land Rover.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, whenever I come across other travelers in who are
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: also traveling in a defender, Like, I just know ninety
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: five percent chance they're going to be pretty great people
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: because you know, they're putting themselves through the same thing
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: that I am. Like, they didn't get the car with
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: their heads, they got the car with their hearts, and
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: they're willing to put up with whatever crab that car
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: throws their way on a very long journey. So I'm like,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: I've always had just great experiences with the lander of
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: a community and the people driving those cars, So no regrets.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: And they tend to in my experience, Like, for example,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: for Overland Journal, a lot of our contributions to the
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: magazine are from people who own land rovers because they
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: tend to be artistic as well. They're attracted to the
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: way that the vehicle looks, the way that the vehicle feels,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: the history, the legacy of the brand. They're attracted to
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: all of those things. So I actually think that there's
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: advantages to the traveler to driving a land rover because
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: you may break down more often, which means you interact
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: with the locals more often. Yeah, you allow for some serendipity,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: oftentimes unexpected. It's not an adventure until something goes wrong.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: She's the guy who goes around the world in a
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: land cruiser because he's really having an adventure. I don't
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: think so. I love that.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. The world needs to hear them,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: because you know, when I when I got the Defender,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: it was like my common sexual on YouTube was just flooded,
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: flooded with just people being like, why did you get
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: a line? Just get a Toyota, that's not the point.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, you are the one that is actually driving
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: around the world, right, Yeah, that you win that argument,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And again no regrets. I think it's she has
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: served me really really well, and she's just my sole car.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: And it looks like, look, so you have a not
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: to go too much into the weeds on the truck,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: but looks like you have an alue cab that pops
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: up into a camper. Yeah. And is that something that
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: you had installed or did it already have it on there?
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: No, when I got the car, there was really nothing
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: in it. I yeah, just everything that is livable about
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: the car that was part of the journey. So actually, Odyssey,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: my truck went through two versions. So this is actually
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Odyssey two point zero now you're see. Actually I should
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: say three point oh, because when I first got her,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: she was very plain, just had like a little roof
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: rack which we took off. And the first kind of
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: odyssey one point zero was I got a roof rack
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: and like a roof turn from front Runner, so I
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: put that on and also built a little kind of
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: like lifestyle interior with my uncle who's a carpenter, and
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: so that kind of made livable. So I had the
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: rooftup ten but I could also sleep inside. I had
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: some corbos inside. It was pretty basic, nice but basic.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Serven me pretty well did like a big trip around
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: the Balkans and Turkey and Ukraine and like around the
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Black Sea three months, kind of just like a wrekie
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: and it was great. But I started seeing issues with
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: the rooftop tent. I knew that if I wanted to
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: go on a really really long trip, a rooftop tent
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: will probably not be the best idea, just because it's
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: very sensitive to do the weather. You know, it's not
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: very comfortable. You have to set it up every time.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: It's a long time to set up most of them.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and like the fastest I think I got to
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: setting it up from scratch was seven minutes. I turned myself.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: I was like the fastest, and like, okay, seven minutes
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: doesn't seem like a lot, but when you're doing it
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: every single day and it's really windy and raining, it
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: actually is. So I knew that I really wanted to
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: find an alternative solution. So when I got to the
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: States this year, I started working on Odyssey two point zero,
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: which was a complete rebuild of everything. I had the
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: alocab installed in Oregon and then did a whole overhaul
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: of the interior to kind of fit with the auto
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: cab also in the Oregon, So we rebuilt absolutely everything.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: It's interesting because when you start overlanding in a truck
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: like that, you think you know what you want, you
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: have an idea. You have to do that record trip
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: ideally for like a month or two, sleeping in the
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: car every night, living in it every day to kind
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: of figure out, Okay, well, these are the things that
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: are just not working, and these are the things that are,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: and this is what I need and this is what
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I want. So that was really great that I did that,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: and I would definitely recommend it to anyone. So once
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: we did Odyssey two point zero. I knew exactly what
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: I needed, what I wanted, what worked, what didn't. Now
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: I would say that she's like, this is the ultimate, Like,
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: I don't think I need anything else. Whi's great, Like
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I've been living in this car now full time after
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: the kind of rebuild for five months, for five months
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: perfect went to Alaska?
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Perfect?
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: When to a desert perfect? It is so great?
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: How do you keep it warm on the inside? You
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: have a little heater, Yes, I have a diesel heater.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: There we go, so you're set, balmy. This content is
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: brought to you by Overland Journal, our premium quality print publication.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: The magazine was founded in two thousand and six with
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: the goal of providing independent equipment and vehicle reviews, along
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: with the most stunning adventures and photography. We care deeply
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: about the countries and cultures we visit and share our
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: experiences freely with our readers. We also have zero averatorial
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: policy and do not accept any advertiser compensation for our reviews.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: By subscribing to Overland Journal, you're helping support our employee
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: owned and veteran owned publication. Your support also provides resources
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: and funding for content like you are watching or listening
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: to right now. You can subscribe directly on our website
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: at Overland Journal dot com. Beyond the truck, what are
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: some of the things like if you were to, like
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: if there was a fire and you had to grab
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: like your five favorite things, like what are your what
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: are your most favorite pieces of kit or that have
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: helped you in your journey. Like, so somebody that's listening
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: is thinking, this person has traveled around the world now
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: for years, what are what are the things that you
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: really have found makes travel better for you.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a difference between that and grabbing stuff on
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: this fire. I'll probably grab my dog, you know, my passport.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: But then I guess at the end of the day,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: that's probably all we need. Yeah, your dog in a
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: passport exactly, your phone, So maybe that's all that Those
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: are all the important stuff. But what are the things
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: that have kind of brought us smile on your face
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: or made your travels more enjoyable or easier easier.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a lot of things that have that
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: like make my life, daily life easier that I just
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: I think I would grow really frustrated if I didn't
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: have them. My water filter water that's great, So life
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: save a filter really essential. My water tank which holds
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: I think forty liters of water, which is amazing. It
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: means you can be more self sufficient on the road
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: for like long stretches of time, and forty liters for
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: one person and a dog is a lot. It's not
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: like I'm sitting there taking showers and it doesn't things
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: like what else. The diesel heater is also a fantastic
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: a fridge so in obviously one point, Oh, I didn't
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: have a fridge. I just had a Yeah, I had
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: a cool box.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: And now I mean, I know it is game something different.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that stuff is really great. Other than that,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: things that I kind of carry around carry around with me,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: I mean obviously my camera and really really important, but
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: also my journals. So I try and write at least
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: something every day, but try and keep a record of
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: the general journey.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: So that honor of your grandpa.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So again, if there was a fire and
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Mike chuck, one of the other things that I would
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: definitely bring with me would be the little stashup journals
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: that I've written on this trip so far.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's amazing. You talk a little bit about in
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: your content about sustainable travel, and that has become something
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: that we're hearing a lot more about how do you
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: see sustainable travel and how do you bring that to
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: bear for yourself where you feel like you're being sustainable.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: I am a pessimist, I think in this regard because
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't really believe in sustainable travel. I don't think
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: it's possible truly unless you are walking around the world
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: then maybe or recycling, you know, or horse writing. But
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: for the vast majority of travelers, including myself, we are
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: not traveling sustainably. I mean, come on, like, let's face it, Like, Okay,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I might not be taking planes or cruise trip, great,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: but I am still traveling in a truck around the Americas.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: I could be walking, right, So yeah, so I mean,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: of course, tongue in cheek because you know, at the
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: end of the day, of course, I still use very
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: little water, and my car doesn't actually consume that much
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: fuel and I don't and.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Your body used vehicle, so you didn't buy something brand new.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, so I think, you know, I'm definitely like
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: my journey is much more sustainable than people perhaps might
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: assume that it is. I do definitely struggle with the
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: idea of like promoting sustainable travel. I think we've got
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: to be realistic that it may not be sustainable, but
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: we can give back in other ways, you know, you can.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: For example, I'm mostly vegan, so I know that changing
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: my diet from you know, kind of I used to
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: eat meat, and I used to eat dairy every day.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Now I never eat meat and I barely eat dairy.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: So I know that that, for example, reduces my carbon
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: footprint in a major way, actually major way. Again, stop
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: traveling by plane that produces it further. So there's things
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: that we can do to kind of make our travels
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: more sustainable in that sense. But I think when I
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: talk about sustainability in general on the internet, I don't
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: actually mean it in an environment environmental sense.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah I didn't think you did. Yeah.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: I meant the journey being sustainable for you as a
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: human without burning you out, The journey being sustainable in
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: the sense that you're you know, crossing the world while
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: learning things, while growing as a person, rather than just
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: hopping from one destination to the next and snapping pictures
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: of me like hey, I've been there. In that sense,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: that kind of like more conceptual philosophical personal.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Sense, and then what have you done to help make
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: it more sustainable for you.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: In that sense? The I think for me, the biggest
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: change was and this was a very risky change because
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: I used to travel in that more like typical YouTube way,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: so it kind of like jumping from one destiny into
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: the next, like take a flight from Miami to I
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: don't know, Egypt to Syria too, whatever, you know. And
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: I just like changes nations a lot of the time.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: And I felt like there came a point in my
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: life where I would travel so much for I mean
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: for myself but also for content of course, that I
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: would wake up every other day in the morning and
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: it took me like thirty seconds to figure out where
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I was.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: It's just and it's like it can happen for sure. Yeah,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: like wet hotel room that you go have dinner and
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: you go to go back to the hotel and you
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: have actually no idea where you're staying. Yeah, I've had that.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like I find that like people kind
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: of laugh at it, and some people find it even
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: like glamorous. I found it horrifying. I just really found
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: it really hard. I can't do this anymore, Like I
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: feel like I've just become completely rootless, and so I
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: made that change, Like I realized that that's completely unsustainable.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get burnt out really quickly. I did
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: a couple of times already. I just knew that I
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: needed a long journey overland, that I could take up
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: my own pace where I could pace myself. I could
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: be in my own home on wheels, with my own stuff,
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: you know, and not have to like rush to the airport,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: but just take it long. And that was a game
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: changer for me, Like, I feel that was the best
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: thing I could have done. And we I feel like
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: in this world of like consumer driven travel, where again
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: you just encouraged to spend a weekend in Miami, then
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: a weekend in Portland, then a weekend somewhere else, you know,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Like I just feel like we've lost touch with what
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: travel is all about. Travel is not about staying in
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: a five star hotel resort. That is that's a trip.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: That's a holiday. That's different, that's a vacation exactly. Travel
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: is about adventure. When you're traveling, not taking a holiday,
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: I'm talking traveling. You have to put yourself in situations
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: where you might not be certain about something. You can't
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: just go to a hotel where that hotel recreates exactly
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: the style of your own house back home. You kind
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: of you're just at that point, You're just creating an
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: illusion of comfort in a place on the other side
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: of the world where you really why did you go
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: to that place?
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Was it should just stay at home? Yeah?
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: I would have saved yourself a lot of money. I
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: don't mean this in a reductionist way. I just mean
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: that I think we have confused the holiday with the journey,
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: and I think there is a really big difference. Again,
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not one of those people that will be like
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: touris versus traveler. That's not the point. The point is
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: not to put people down. The point is to just
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: know the difference and and be conscious about it. Yeah, intentional,
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Exactly what is it that I.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Want to experience? How do I want this to change me?
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Or do I want to just go on vacation and
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: drink my ties at the pool, which is not that wrong?
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Is so great?
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I love that sometimes, you know, but I not
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: exactly there's a difference. Yeah, I suppose that for me,
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: like doing that big ovaland trip was making it was
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: less about fitting my life around trips and more about
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: synchronizing my life with the big journey. And so yeah,
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: so I guess I'm driving the Pan American Highway now
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: and then.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: Let's see what happened and that feels sustainable to you now?
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that I feel like I can do this for
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: a very long time.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Well, hopefully you can. That would be amazing. Yeah, keep
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: checking in on your travels. So another thing that you
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: have had kind of as a theme is this connection
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: to others and communities. How have you found that you
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: best connect in with a new place. So you're you're
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: traveling into it, let's like maybe exclude America, but like
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: somewhere else in the world. You're coming into some place
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: very unique, and you want to connect in with that community.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: What do you look for, what are you trying to do?
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: What are you hoping to achieve when you want to connect.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I feel like a big part of it is when
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: you go to a place that you that is very distant,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: culturally or whatever from from your own culture or community.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: What really helps me is when I go in there
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: without really any expectations and try and clear my mind
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: of any preconceived notions and it's very hard to do,
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: very easy to say, very hard to do, but it
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: really helps because that way you can kind of look
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: at someone else's life and kind of observe it without
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: making rash judgments, without comparing it to your own sure,
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: and just kind of like open yourself up. Okay, this
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: is how they do things. Oh well, why is that?
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: You know, kind of just absorbing another culture. So I've
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: really found that that kind of helps me. And I
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: think another thing, but that's kind of more specific to
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: what I do, which is filmmaking, is you know, every
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: time I go somewhere to like meet someone like from
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: a different community, the idea is usually to make a
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: film about their life maybe or about their culture. So
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: for me, it's also about kind of doing a bit
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: of research beforehand to kind of like even some basic
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: words in their language, you know, thank you, hello, goodbye, whatever,
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, and it really helps to connect. I
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: think another thing that we totally underestimate that I found
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: wherever I go in the world, just like a smile
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: is a really good start, you know, it really does. Yeah,
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: it does bring people together. A smile, pat on the shoulder,
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: like whatever, you know, just being just normal, friendly human,
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: you know, and so yeah, I feel like that's really
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: helped me kind of connect to people all around the world,
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: and it's something that everybody can do. It's really not
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: a deep philosophy.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: And that is that something that you find is one
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: of your motivations to travel is to connect with new cultures.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really feel like meeting people from around the
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: world has helped me figure out who I want to be,
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: you know, and what I want to be like to
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: the world and to the people of the world, and
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: what kind of mission I want to communicate with everything
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: that I do. So I would say that just becoming
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: more open, more thoughtful, more more intentional, as you said before,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: I would say that that's something that the people that
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: I've met around the world have largely given me.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: It's incredible how much of a gift we get from
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: the places that we visit, and how often even travelers
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: do a poor job of giving back. So what are
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: some ways that you find that you're able to give
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: back to those communities or you know, cultures that you
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: have enjoyed. What are some things that you like to do.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: I think a very very important thing that the tourism
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: industry doesn't do enough of that I always try and
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: focus on is finding local guides, you know, finding local
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: projects and communities that you can go visit amazing places
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: around the world with locals. I think one mistake that
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: we make is kind of finding a kind of Western
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: or American agency that arranges everything for us, and then
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: the guide on the ground is you know, he gets
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: like a percent cut on that, you know, like a
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: timey little percentage of all the work that he puts in,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: just because we have chosen not to organize the trip
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: by ourselves, but we have let a local agency that
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: is like us organize it for us because we're too
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: lazy or too uncertains to kind of do it by ourselves.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: And so whatever money we then spend on that trip
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: ends up being largely in the hands of that Western agency,
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't actually go and support the people that
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: we're visiting. It doesn't make the world necessarily a much
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: better place. Let's just put it that way. For example,
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: A really great example, and I remember visiting this place
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: when I was I think fifteen or sixteen years old,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: I was really young. I went to Ankarwat in Cambodia.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: Everybody knows it. It's beautiful, it's historical, it's just majestic.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: And you know, one of the narratives that we tell
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: ourselves in the travel and tourism world is that, well,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: the money that comes from tourism helps support these local communities.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: That's not quite true. So even back then in Cambodia,
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: this was again before like the massive waves of that
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: descended upon ankar Wat. Even back then you could see
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: that the local communities weren't exactly benefiting from all that
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: money that was coming in from tourism. In fact, despite
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: ankor Wat being the biggest attraction in Cambodia and the
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: thing that draws the most visitors to Cambodia, cMRI, which
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: is the province, the town and province around there, is
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: the poorest in Cambodia. It's the poorest even though it
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: attracts all the visitors and it should be technically the richest,
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: it is not because most of the money is stays
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: in the hands of foreign investors, foreign hotels, politicians. So
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: I feel like we have to be really really careful
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: with how we spend our money when we travel. And
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: that's kind of what I really am extremely picky about.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: For example, a year ago, I went to Iran and
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: did like a did an amazing cultural experience which was
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent locally owned, locally operated, I think it nonprofit.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: So basically I went to the mountains of the Zagros
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Mountains of Iran and spent a week traveling by foot
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: with some of the last nomadic people in Iran. So
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: twice a year they do a big kind of like
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: seasonal migration to greener pastures with their flocks of sheep
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: and ghoasts, and you can join them as a tourist.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: As a travel you can. There's one there's one local
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: project that has spent years becoming friends with and creating
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: kind of personal connections with some of the nomadic families,
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: so they've gained their trust and they give them amazing,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: like great financial incentives to actually bring tourists along. So
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: you kind of go on this amazing experience that you'd
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: never get access to in any other way as a tourist,
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: and it's mind bending, like it's just so eye opening,
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: kind of like that whole nomadic lifestyle of the people
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: in the Zagros Mountains. So you're fitting hugely because you're
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: joining them on this really special journey, and they benefit
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: because they get a really good cut of the profit
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: from that trip, they get to meet tourists who are
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: usually very respectful and want to be there, you know.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: So I just feel like I love It's a great example. Yeah.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: I love to promote these kinds of opportunities. There's loads
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: of them all around the world. We just have to
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: seek them out.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: And it provides financial incentive for them to retain as
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: much of those original cultural components of their society as
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: they can. Yeah, it doesn't mean that it doesn't allow
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: them to have a smartphone, but it does show incentive
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: of like, let's retain this, yes, this heritage in this
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: history of our people.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really amazing. One of the things that I
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: love to ask is the books that you have read
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: are currently reading that are the most inspiring or have
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: changed your life in some way positive or made you
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: laugh whatever.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great question. I actually have a little highlights tamp
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: on my Instagram with all my book accommodations, So if
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: someone was really interested in this, Yeah, there's there's loads.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: So I'm a massive book worm. Again, I studied languages
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: and literature university, so there's a lot. But I would
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: say that like the top two that I can think
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: off the top of my head. One would be Sapiens
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: by you Haris. Amazing work. So that kind of talks
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: about like the history of humanity and how we got
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: to where we are right now. Really amazing but very
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: accessible and easy read, right.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Very good? Yeah, so good, great for travelers to read.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so good.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Where did all of this behavior come from? Yeah? Why
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: are we?
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: Why we like this? And the other one that is
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: like my it's always in my car, except now because
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: I just gave my last copy to someone else, but
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: it's usually in my car is The Profit by kl Debryan.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: So I know the Prophet sounds like religious, it's not
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: a religious book. It's a very spiritual book. The poetry
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: of life, I don't, Yeah, And it just kind of
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: it's just so inspiring and beautiful and very philosophical in
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: a very poetic way. So I love to just kind
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: of like dip into that book and just reread chapter
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: US here and there.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: So that's something that you've gone back to and read,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, plenty of times. Yeah, amazing. In all of
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: your travels, who would you say was the most inspiring
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: person that you met? And they don't have to be
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: another traveler, like the person that you literally you think
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: back on and you think, how did that happen? How
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: did I get that opportunity to interact with that other
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: human being?
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: Oh? My god, there are so many, so many amazing people.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: It's really hard to like single art a single person.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: There's definitely I mean, I've already talked about the nomads
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: of around. That family made a huge impression on me.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great story. Yeah.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: But another kind of person that I think I was
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: made a really big impact on me was So I
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: was in Tanzania a couple of years ago and a
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: friend of mine she moved to Tanzania, like I don't know,
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: a decade ago, and she met a guy who was
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: a Massi guy, and they married and she moved to
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: his village in Tanzania. So she speaks fluent Massa. She
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: like she's part of the community very very much, which
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: kind of interesting because she's she's a German girl. She's,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: you know, white, white German girl.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Is there much of her story that's out there? Yeah,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: that's a fascinating story.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: She's just so interesting. And so I went to her
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: village to kind of meet her and her family and
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: I did an interview with her mom in law. She's
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: a MASSI lady, and I don't know if everybody knows,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: but the MASSI have they live in a polygamous society.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: Basically one man can have several different wives. And so
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: I did an interview with Stephanie's mother in law Yai,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: and yeah, I kind of shared her husband with three
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: other wives.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: I believe.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: I just used to find that concept so like horrifying,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Like polygamy in any way just seemed really horrifying. And
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: then I kind of spoke to her and she explained
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: how it kind of works. And I think what really
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: opened my mind was how she said when I asked
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: her at some point, aren't you jealous.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: Of the otherwise?
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: I'm so jealous and she was like, no, we're really
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: good friends. You know, we're a family, we support each other.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: And I just found that so like wow. So she's
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's inspiring in the sense that she kind
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: of opened my eyes to how we can perceive different
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: emotions through so many different lenses. My instinctive reaction was
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: how to be so jealous? She showed me that in
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: any relation, you don't have to be jealous. You can
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: just take all the good things about it and focus
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: on that. And I think that applies really to anything.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: So it's a very specific example, but I feel like
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: all of these cultural concepts that we surround ourselves with,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: they're all relative, right, It's all about how you look
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: at them, whether that's relationships or body hair or like
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: and all of those things. So, yeah, I think she
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: was inspiring in a very big way to kind of
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: for me to reevaluate everything, really everything that I came
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: to believe in.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: So yeah, thanks, Yeah, Yes, she maybe challenged some of
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: those preconceived notions.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know it's a very different culture because
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: it's still a very patriarchal culture that she lives in,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: so it comes from a different place. But that doesn't
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: mean that you can't that she can't kind of change
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: her mind about something, right, Yeah.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: That's so interesting. The last question, which will be helpful
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: for all of those that are listening that are thinking
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: about starting their own journey around the world, maybe as
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: a solo traveler, what advice, And there's two ways to
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: frame it, what advice would you give to yourself if
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: you were to go back seven What year was it
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: when you left for Nepal.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: Oh we got two seventeen or eighteen, it was five
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: years ago.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, So if you were to go back five years
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: after all of this travel and give yourself some advice,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: or if you were to be sitting down for tea
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: or coffee with a solo traveler that's getting ready to
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: go around the world, what would you tell them? What
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: key pieces of advice would you give them?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: Don't look for yourself, forget about looking for yourself. Just
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: just let the journey take you, let the journey change you, observe, learn,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: tune in, don't resist change. Yeah, and most of all,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: enjoy every moment, and I mean really moment. Not enjoy
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: the idea of the journey, not enjoy getting from one
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: place in an exp really just stay still once in
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: a while and understand what an amazing privileged opportunity you
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: have to be in that place right now, right this moment,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: and be experiencing it. So enjoy.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: Well. Thank you for being an inspiration to so many,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: and thank you for being that authentic version of yourself
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: in social media. I think it's so important that we
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: continue to model that to others. That and I think
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: back on my own travels, I wish that I had
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: done a better job of that too, and it's something
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: that I work on now, be more open and authentic
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: and share my failures as much as my successes.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: It takes a lot of takes a lot of strength.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: So thank you for doing that, and thank you for
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: being such a great ambassador for overlanding and for solo
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: travelers around the world. Where do people find out more
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: about you and then maybe share a little bit about
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: what's next on your journey?
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I am all over social media, but I'd
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: say the two main channels are Instagram and YouTube, so
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: weekly videos on YouTube and then casual content on Instagram.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: The journey is the Pan American Highway, so I am
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: driving it from Mexico to Alaska and Alaska to Shuaya,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: so that will be next. I suppose I'm here in
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Arizona and the next steps will be crossing Mexico, Central
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: America and onto Argentina eventually.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're going to be doing El Camino del Diablo
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: in the next week or so, which is exciting.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so excited.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you'll enjoy that. And then Mexico is wonderful.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be great. I'm really compared.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: Well, we're looking forward to following your journe Deer and Ease.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: I know Ashley Giordano did a little interview with you
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: as well for Overland Journals, so people can read more
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: about that conversation. But thanks again for being on the podcast.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you. It's such a pleasure, and
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: We thank you all for listening, and we'll talk to
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: you next time.