Latest / Flyer Magazine / Mandatory ADS-B on the way for UK General Aviation - The FLYER Show - 5 March 2026

Transcript

Mandatory ADS-B on the way for UK General Aviation - The FLYER Show - 5 March 2026 · Flyer Magazine

0:04
SPEAKER_06: Welcome to the Flyer Show.
0:06
SPEAKER_04: From Flight.
0:09
SPEAKER_04: Hello and welcome to this week's Flyer Show from a almost sunny Wandswick.
0:13
SPEAKER_04: My name's Ian Seeger.
0:14
SPEAKER_04: I'm Ed Hex.
0:15
SPEAKER_03: And I'm Dave Coberwood.
0:16
SPEAKER_04: Excellent.
0:17
SPEAKER_04: Today we'll be talking about we'll be asking whether the Civil Aviation Authority is about to mandate electronic conspicuity.
0:23
SPEAKER_04: I think, spoiler alert, the answer to that is probably yes.
0:26
SPEAKER_04: So listen later for the main part of the show where we'll delve into that.
0:29
SPEAKER_04: A huge thank you to Sky Demon, our sponsors.
0:31
SPEAKER_04: Thank you very much.
0:32
SPEAKER_04: Wouldn't be possible without you, and we are very, very pleased that you're supporting us.
0:37
SPEAKER_04: And here is this week's top tip.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Hannah from Sky Demon, and this is this week's top tip.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: If you're planning a longer journey, you may wish to break it up into shorter legs with one or more landing points along the way.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: For example, if you need to stop for fuel.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: First plan the route as a whole, then hold your finger on the airfield you want to add as an intermediate landing point and tap routing.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Land here.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: The route is now divided into two sectors, each with its own pilot log, planned fuel, and virtual radar.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: The active sector is bolder and highlighted blue.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: And you can tap to change it.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: You can also change the landing to a different airfield if you need to, just by dragging it with your finger.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: To remove the landing point and rejoin the sectors back together into one route, bring up the What's Here menu and choose routing.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: For more information, go to our website skydemon.arrow.
1:49
SPEAKER_06: So I think it's definitely important that you think about stopping to land for fuel.
1:54
SPEAKER_06: Because otherwise the airplane will go, you are stopping for fuel because you run out.
1:57
SPEAKER_04: Because you are.
1:58
SPEAKER_04: I think it's also very important to have a stop for a Wii from time to time.
2:04
SPEAKER_03: That gets more important as you get older as time goes on.
2:07
SPEAKER_04: I think we were flying up to Mull and we had enough fuel to get there with no problem.
2:11
SPEAKER_04: But I think we're approaching Scotland going, I'm gonna need to stop somewhere soon.
2:15
SPEAKER_04: You're like Kirk Brides looking like an option.
2:18
SPEAKER_04: Right, I didn't get PPR, but I need to do some PP without the R.
2:23
SPEAKER_04: Multi-sector routes is a good thing.
2:25
SPEAKER_04: It is a very good thing.
2:26
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so um so it's definitely been feeling a bit more spring-like.
2:30
SPEAKER_06: Shall we see what uh Simon has in store for us uh for the weather?
2:34
SPEAKER_06: Come on, Simon.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: Evening all.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: Hope you're doing well this evening and looking forward to the weekend.
2:40
SPEAKER_02: Higher pressure is building, as always, there's a few complications, but actually, I think for many of us there are some opportunities to get out there flying this weekend.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: So this is the forecast charts from the uh icon EU model.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: It's a high resolution model, and it shows us cloud, which are the white colours on here.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: Clear skies are the black colours, and then we've got isobars on there as well as forecast rain.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: So think of that rain as a forecast radar.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: So here we are for Friday morning, lots of cloud around Friday morning, I think quite a misty, murky morning across many parts of England and Wales, some rain across northern parts of England, and another batch of rain coming into southern England during the course of Friday afternoon, edging its way northwards to be through the Midlands, through East Anglia, through southern England by um Friday evening.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: So deteriorating conditions as we go through the course of the day across England and Wales, but much better in Scotland, across Ireland, across northwest England eventually, and also across those northern and western parts of Wales.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: Now, as we go through the night, that rain gradually clears its way eastwards from uh central and southern England, leaves us with quite a murky morning again on Saturday morning across many parts of central southern England and Wales, and there could still be one or two bits of drizzle around across southern areas, particularly over the hills.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: Now, gradually visibility should improve during Saturday.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: However, we could still find some shadows trying to develop just in a line through parts of the Midlands, through central southern parts of Wales into southern England.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: Still visibility, probably around about 10 to 15 kilometres, but could be down at around five or six kilometres in some places.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: Now, generally the cloud does break, best across the central and uh southern parts of England, East Anglia and the southeast.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking typical bases probably around 3,000 feet in the afternoon, tops 8,000 feet, but the bases could be down below 2,000 feet in one or two spots where those showers occur.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: Scotland, northern England, and also Ireland looking like they're very firable, probably some thicker cloud across northwest Scotland, typical bases, 4,000 feet, tops about 7,000 feet, just light winds for most of us.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: And then going into Sunday, well, more cloud around on Sunday morning, particularly across eastern areas where it sort of drifts in from off the sea.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: And you notice here a few shower bits of rain just drifting northwards across parts of Wales and southwest England.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: It's showery stuff, really, and probably southwest Scotland seeing most of it.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: So I do think that Sunday is looking okay.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: Um some decent conditions to be found.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: I think Sunbites perhaps Sunday afternoon is looking pretty dark with well-broken cloud and yes, a bit of haze, but the visibility improving 4,000 foot bases, 7,000 foot tops, maybe bits of rain for western Scotland, possibly across western Wales, maybe southwest Scotland.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: Could just touch northwest England, but overall it looks like a reasonable afternoon.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be that haze, really, that's gonna be the main feature on Sunday.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: So you see, not bad a weekend overall, given that air mass uh as it arrives from the east and south east.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: Now I've just announced dates for my next aviation weather school, which is going to be in May.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be on the 12th and the 19th of May.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, I know it's um a wee way away, but it'll be here before you know it.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: The April course filled up so quickly.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: But um, you can get yourself booked onto Aviation Weather School Part 1 on the consecutive Tuesday evenings of the 12th and the 19th of May between 6.30pm and 9 p.m.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'll show you how to plan five days in advance, how you can spot those weather windows, and I will get you flying more and get you flying more safely.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: Get a weather school.co.uk to book your place now or use the QR code.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, there's only a few places left.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: So uh if you want to come on that course, uh yeah, go for it now.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay, whatever you're doing, have a fantastic, have a safe flying weekend, and I'll see you soon.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: Bye for now.
6:46
SPEAKER_06: Well, I live in hope.
6:48
SPEAKER_06: I think it's gonna be a bit of a mixed bag, but hopefully a bit warmer.
6:51
SPEAKER_06: So uh I th I think that's it.
6:53
SPEAKER_04: I think we're we're breaking into spring.
6:55
SPEAKER_04: No, we are daffodils are out, it's just amazing.
6:58
SPEAKER_03: Meteorological spring already.
7:00
SPEAKER_03: It is, it is there we go.
7:02
SPEAKER_06: Dave.
7:02
SPEAKER_06: Do you know what that is?
7:03
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, Dave says best you're gonna get the weather because it's spring.
7:07
SPEAKER_04: Okay, right, to the news.
7:09
SPEAKER_04: Just the first one from me.
7:10
SPEAKER_04: You would have noticed, undoubtedly, the publication of a something called CAP 3217.
7:15
SPEAKER_04: That was the consultation response on the whole electronic conspicuity technical specification.
7:20
SPEAKER_04: Blah blah blah blah.
7:21
SPEAKER_04: The CA didn't discover a way of writing stuff in plain English, but we've been through it along with some others, and we'll be coming back to that later in the show.
7:28
SPEAKER_04: So for now, just hold your breath.
7:31
SPEAKER_04: Ed?
7:31
SPEAKER_06: Uh yeah, uh it's a big birthday today, and that's because it's the 90th anniversary since the first flight of the Supermarine Spitfire.
7:40
SPEAKER_06: Wow.
7:41
SPEAKER_06: I know.
7:41
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
7:42
SPEAKER_06: So uh in 1936, uh pilot Test pilot Mutt Summers uh took off from Eastley Airfield uh in Spitfire K-5054 and set about creating I'm probably what is the the biggest say, you know, British fighter legend ever.
7:57
SPEAKER_04: So uh I mean Eastlee should, Southampton as it is now, yeah.
8:03
SPEAKER_04: Should really give any Spitfire free landing ev forever, shouldn't they?
8:06
SPEAKER_06: Forever, yeah.
8:07
SPEAKER_06: No, I think that's that would be a reason to buy a Spitfire if I could afford it.
8:12
SPEAKER_06: But um uh so the cool thing that certainly one of the cool things that's happening this year, um Shuttle the Shuttleworth collection is aiming to get an example of every airworthy mark of Spitfire in the country to its summer air show, uh which is happening on Saturday, the twenty-fifth of July.
8:29
SPEAKER_06: Wow.
8:29
SPEAKER_06: So if you fancy seeing pretty much a chronology of Spitfires, head to Shuttleworth.
8:34
SPEAKER_04: I haven't got my diary in front of me, but does that that clashes?
8:37
SPEAKER_04: It does clash.
8:38
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we will be at Oshkosh.
8:39
SPEAKER_06: But if you're not at Oshkosh, I would suggest that Shuttleworth will be a fantastic place to go.
8:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I was I was gonna say that sounds so great, and then I suddenly thought Yeah, can't go.
8:49
SPEAKER_04: Can't go.
8:50
SPEAKER_03: Do you think they're gonna stage a scramble?
8:51
SPEAKER_06: They're gonna probably should.
8:55
SPEAKER_06: They should.
8:55
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
8:56
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
8:56
SPEAKER_06: But uh yeah, no, I mean that'll be amazing to see everything from Mark One's uh all the way up to the the big Griffin engine later marks.
9:04
SPEAKER_06: So was that sixteen?
9:05
SPEAKER_06: I can't remember.
9:06
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
9:06
SPEAKER_06: Oh no, I I think we go it goes as far as twenty-four or something, isn't it?
9:10
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
9:10
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
9:11
SPEAKER_06: So uh Yes.
9:13
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
9:13
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
9:14
SPEAKER_04: Talking of aircraft.
9:15
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah, not quite all about really.
9:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:18
SPEAKER_03: It's not quite as exciting as all those Spitfires come together, but Alpi Aviation, an Italian manufacturer, they're gonna launch a new light twin uh to Aero, Friedrich Sheffen uh this year.
9:28
SPEAKER_03: We'd actually have seen a mock-up of it before.
9:30
SPEAKER_03: In 2022, they brought it along to to Aero.
9:33
SPEAKER_03: But now they've got it ready.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be powered by two uh RoTex 916 engines, um which uh it's gonna give it a fair bit of poke.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: Um and they they they were gonna put the Rotex 915 in it.
9:47
SPEAKER_06: Uh but um everyone goes for it's like it's like the choice now is just go straight to a 916.
9:53
SPEAKER_06: The 915 is gonna be it's like sitting there going, Hello, hello, you remember me.
9:57
SPEAKER_06: It's forgotten.
9:58
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
10:00
SPEAKER_06: A twin pioneer uh a twin pioneer, is it gonna be a a twin Alp?
10:04
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
10:04
SPEAKER_06: Uh that's gonna be I know it's we d when we saw it in mock-up form, it was a sweet looking thing.
10:09
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
10:09
SPEAKER_03: So um Yeah, the f the basic what the fuselage is based on the 400, isn't it?
10:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think so, yeah.
10:16
SPEAKER_04: It's a while since I've flown an LP.
10:17
SPEAKER_04: So long I can't remember this.
10:19
SPEAKER_04: But is the LP the one does that have like a wind-up undercarriage in it?
10:22
SPEAKER_06: Um I th I believe they do give you a motor to do that job.
10:25
SPEAKER_06: You don't have to physically crank it up yourself.
10:28
SPEAKER_04: I'm sure I've done that before.
10:30
SPEAKER_04: Maybe it was a different aircraft, I can't remember.
10:32
SPEAKER_06: Maybe so.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: But one thing they're going to be introducing on this LP, which may be slightly controversial, is it's going to have an AI, artificial intelligence, uh digital copilot.
10:42
SPEAKER_03: We don't know very much detail about this at the moment.
10:44
SPEAKER_03: They don't they they do say it's there to assist the pilot.
10:48
SPEAKER_06: I'm sorry, Dave, but that is incorrect.
10:50
SPEAKER_06: Dave, you're doing it wrong.
10:52
SPEAKER_06: Dave, don't do that.
10:53
SPEAKER_06: Dave, get off.
10:54
SPEAKER_06: Dave, let me fly.
10:56
SPEAKER_04: Well, I mean yes.
10:59
SPEAKER_04: It it'll it'll be I I kind of like sigh a little bit.
11:02
SPEAKER_04: But on the other hand, you know, I think AI, some parts of AI is brilliant.
11:05
SPEAKER_06: If it's like AI generated pictures of airplanes, I don't want that in the copyright.
11:10
SPEAKER_06: No, exactly.
11:12
SPEAKER_04: I didn't bust the airspace.
11:14
SPEAKER_04: It was AI.
11:15
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
11:16
SPEAKER_03: Well according to Alpi, the system is designed to support pilots in real-time operational flight management.
11:22
SPEAKER_03: It's a bit of company speak, isn't it?
11:24
SPEAKER_03: Um functioning as a digital copilot that enhances situational awareness and operational performance.
11:30
SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
11:31
SPEAKER_03: Anyway.
11:32
SPEAKER_06: And I can imagine it'll be like uh Dave, uh you just flew through some airspace.
11:37
SPEAKER_06: I didn't tell you about it because I thought it would be funny.
11:43
SPEAKER_06: Right.
11:43
SPEAKER_06: RV RV 15 news.
11:45
SPEAKER_06: RV15 news.
11:46
SPEAKER_06: RV 15 news.
11:47
SPEAKER_06: Um so obviously the R V15, the wing kits for that uh went on sale at Oshkosh uh last year.
11:54
SPEAKER_06: No, I don't think I'm I don't think I'm gonna be an R V15 builder.
11:57
SPEAKER_06: It's j it's a big project and an expensive one too.
12:00
SPEAKER_06: But um for those that could, um uh you could buy order, start ordering wing kits last year in July.
12:06
SPEAKER_06: Uh and they at the time they talked about the fact that tailkits were going to be available in January um uh to order, to deliver in March, yeah, this year.
12:15
SPEAKER_06: Uh that's been a bit delayed and they've finally hit that uh hit that order mark.
12:19
SPEAKER_06: So they've just said that you can order a tail kit now for the R V15.
12:23
SPEAKER_06: Um I think they've spent uh probably a bit longer than anticipated trying to find the right combination of um of tail setup.
12:32
SPEAKER_06: Um and you may remember when it was first introduced, uh it was an all-flying stabilator.
12:37
SPEAKER_06: Uh then we saw it last year, it had a fixed tailplane with an elevator.
12:41
SPEAKER_06: Now it's ended up with a trimable stabilator with an elevator.
12:46
SPEAKER_06: Uh anyway, that's locked in now.
12:48
SPEAKER_06: Uh, and tailkits now on sale.
12:50
SPEAKER_06: Uh$9,000 um for that.
12:52
SPEAKER_06: Do we know when they're going to be delivering those?
12:54
SPEAKER_06: Um yeah, so uh uh tailkits are going to be delivered uh um May 2026.
13:05
SPEAKER_04: May 2026.
13:06
SPEAKER_04: Um just while you're while you're in all your details.
13:08
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
13:09
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
13:09
SPEAKER_04: Is there any word on when the either the fuselage or the farmable forward kit?
13:13
SPEAKER_06: Uh so based on pr based on previous info we had, uh so that again was talked to Oshkosh, uh fuselage orders were due to open August 2026.
13:23
SPEAKER_06: That seems like that might be possible.
13:25
SPEAKER_04: Surely they'd squeeze that forward so for for Oskosh, wouldn't they?
13:28
SPEAKER_06: I mean it's only like a day's.
13:30
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
13:30
SPEAKER_06: Um so orders open August 2026, deliveries in October 26, firewall forward kits to go on sale, same time uh deliveries by the end of 2026, and finish kits uh to go on sale in November 2026, deliveries by the end of 2026 are the same as the So So what's in a finish kit?
13:50
SPEAKER_03: Is that all the Oh, here are all the parts we forgot to give you earlier?
13:53
SPEAKER_06: Well no, finish kit.
13:55
SPEAKER_06: Finish kit is like when you're when you're a builder you get really excited because you go, Oh, it's the finish kit, I'll be finished soon, and this box of demotivation turns up.
14:04
SPEAKER_06: But it is cool because it's things like cowlings, it's all the stuff that you you look at and you go, oh, five minutes and I'll have that done.
14:11
SPEAKER_06: And actually it's a chunk of time, much more than that.
14:13
SPEAKER_04: But this one this one is supposed to be the easiest built, fastest building.
14:17
SPEAKER_04: Easiest and fastest building RV ever.
14:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
14:22
SPEAKER_04: Henry, you need to take a note of this because we'll come back to this next year.
14:26
SPEAKER_04: Who wants to take a wager of when the first customer built RV 15 is going to fly then?
14:31
SPEAKER_06: Uh I reckon first customer-built RV fifteen will fly in um Mm Middle of 2027.
14:43
SPEAKER_06: So what's that, June?
14:46
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I reckon I I reckon May, June.
14:48
SPEAKER_06: I would say I'd certainly put money on us seeing the first customer built R V15's uh Oshkosh in 2027.
14:55
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
14:57
SPEAKER_03: I think that's a fairly realistic time.
14:59
SPEAKER_03: I mean, much of the states over the winter sounds uh good, but it but it's it well, it gets really bad winters.
15:05
SPEAKER_04: So you want to be in a workshop doing building an aeroplane.
15:08
SPEAKER_04: If you're in Florida, yeah, that's true.
15:11
SPEAKER_04: I mean if you're in Canada, which might be the states by then, who knows?
15:15
SPEAKER_03: But well, what was it?
15:16
SPEAKER_03: I was looking at the uh some pictures of the R V fifteen.
15:19
SPEAKER_03: You know, they were talking about you know now the various things they've done to the aircraft.
15:23
SPEAKER_03: Let's look at that, those flaps.
15:25
SPEAKER_03: I mean, they're the huge flaps, and they've got those lovely little vortex generators as well.
15:29
SPEAKER_06: The the flaps are really so the final wing kit wing design was really amazing because it had flaps with uh vortex generators built into their leading edges.
15:37
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
15:38
SPEAKER_06: And normally vortex generators you stick them on, but they were actually f it fans' metal forming is like artistry.
15:45
SPEAKER_06: And the part comes out of the kit box and it's the uh it's the the edge of one of the skins, and it's got these little fingers with all the vortex generators on, you literally rivet it together, and those generators are all in place.
15:57
SPEAKER_06: And then when you put the flaps on the aeroplane, when you put the flaps up, the um the flaps retract and the vortex generators are all hidden, uh reducing the drag.
16:05
SPEAKER_06: It's very, very clever design.
16:07
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
16:08
SPEAKER_06: So um uh yeah, so I just I know I know the fuselage, I think the fuselage design is gonna change a little bit.
16:14
SPEAKER_06: So I think the final R V15 that we see, and I'm um hopefully we'll see the the absolute final item at Oshkosh this year is gonna be probably I'm gonna put money on being slightly prettier than the R V15 that we've known.
16:27
SPEAKER_04: That's good because I've always thought you know, you don't really want to say anything bad around the the church of Vans in the US because people get upset about it.
16:37
SPEAKER_04: Some people here get upset about it as well.
16:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
16:39
SPEAKER_06: Because they've got lots of beautiful aeroplanes, and the RV 15 probably is the the the one where people have been most challenged with the looks.
16:46
SPEAKER_04: Someone snuck in at the weekend with the ugly stick, went and then went to the light tap.
16:50
SPEAKER_04: It's not ugly at all.
16:51
SPEAKER_06: It was just a light tap.
16:52
SPEAKER_06: But there's just a few little things that could have been tweaked.
16:55
SPEAKER_06: I think the final the final R V-15 that we'll see will be um you'll be happy, I think.
17:00
SPEAKER_04: I look forward to being happy about the way it looks.
17:03
SPEAKER_04: Um okay.
17:04
SPEAKER_04: Last I news item is remember uh the I think it was someone from Beijing State Council, wasn't it?
17:09
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
17:09
SPEAKER_04: One of the who said like Popham is not a very significant airfield.
17:12
SPEAKER_04: Not significant airfield.
17:16
SPEAKER_04: I nearly swore there.
17:18
SPEAKER_04: I stopped myself.
17:19
SPEAKER_04: We disagree strongly, but so do many, many, many other people.
17:23
SPEAKER_04: Um and Sky Demon who produced this heat map, which is now out in the public domain, just showing the level of traffic in the world.
17:31
SPEAKER_06: If you had any if you were one of those imbeciles that thought Popham was not significant, you'd have to eat humble pie looking at this, wouldn't you?
17:39
SPEAKER_06: Because that is an i that's a heat map of intensity.
17:42
SPEAKER_04: Yes, you want to get the heat map, print it on some thin film, attach the film to a dead cod, and then go slap them around the face.
17:51
SPEAKER_06: Maybe not that extreme.
17:53
SPEAKER_06: But slap people around the face with a wet fish.
17:57
SPEAKER_06: I'm sucking sometimes to imagine what goes on in his head.
18:02
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, take a look at that.
18:05
SPEAKER_04: As you can see, it's not at all insignificant.
18:06
SPEAKER_04: We all knew that anyway.
18:07
SPEAKER_04: It was just someone didn't.
18:09
SPEAKER_04: Hence the fish.
18:09
SPEAKER_04: They'll remember forever.
18:11
SPEAKER_04: Every time you go into a chippy, they'll go, hmm, pop them.
18:15
SPEAKER_04: It's a very significant place, isn't it?
18:17
SPEAKER_03: What also is uh shows up on that heat map is how there are the those there are some hot spots which people are desperate to avoid.
18:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, with the controlled air space stuff.
18:25
SPEAKER_03: What we might call cold spots.
18:27
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:29
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
18:30
SPEAKER_04: Right.
18:30
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
18:31
SPEAKER_04: Club news.
18:32
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
18:33
SPEAKER_03: March land March landing fees.
18:35
SPEAKER_03: Fox landing fees.
18:35
SPEAKER_03: March landing fees are Oaksea Park.
18:38
SPEAKER_03: Really.
18:39
SPEAKER_06: And uh good the thing about Oaksea Park is they have UL ninety-four coming.
18:43
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
18:44
SPEAKER_06: The purple stuff.
18:45
SPEAKER_06: The purple stuff.
18:46
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
18:46
SPEAKER_03: But there's a whole lot of other things they've got going on at uh Oaksey.
18:49
SPEAKER_03: I went through the list and uh it's it's it's it's really got a great place to be in the other place.
18:54
SPEAKER_04: It's probably only six or seven minutes from here.
18:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's right.
18:57
SPEAKER_04: Talking of six or seven minutes, I'm going to interrupt this broadcast just to say that last week, sorry, I've it's something I need to correct from last week.
19:02
SPEAKER_04: Last week we were going through the apps, do you remember the airfield finder?
19:05
SPEAKER_04: And I'm going like, I can't find bloody henstridge on there.
19:07
SPEAKER_04: Why is it missing out henstridge?
19:09
SPEAKER_04: Turns out there was a bit of a meatwear issue.
19:11
SPEAKER_04: And the and the filter um was sort of set by default, I think it's 15 minutes.
19:18
SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
19:18
SPEAKER_04: And henstridge is something like a 13-minute flight from here, 120 knots with no wind.
19:23
SPEAKER_04: And so it had filtered it out.
19:24
SPEAKER_04: So once I'd adjusted that, once a few people in the comments had kindly pointed that out, I realised my error.
19:32
SPEAKER_04: Apologised to Tim who put Airfield Finder together.
19:34
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
19:35
SPEAKER_04: And not the same Tim as to Tim Dawson, just a different Tim.
19:39
SPEAKER_04: Different Tim.
19:39
SPEAKER_04: You have to be called Tim to do apps.
19:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
19:42
SPEAKER_04: Um, and and now all's good.
19:44
SPEAKER_04: And so apologies for that.
19:46
SPEAKER_04: Very good.
19:46
SPEAKER_04: Where else can you land?
19:47
SPEAKER_04: Where are you in March?
19:48
SPEAKER_03: It's Competal, up in Scotland.
19:50
SPEAKER_03: It's his 60th anniversary year.
19:51
SPEAKER_03: Also in Scotland.
19:52
SPEAKER_04: Younger than the Spitfire.
19:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, younger than the Spitfire.
19:55
SPEAKER_03: Dorlock.
19:56
SPEAKER_03: Dorlock is right on the north-east coast, right by the beach.
20:00
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
20:00
SPEAKER_03: And uh it's begun a revival under the manager of a local uh pilot called Huey Urkhart.
20:06
SPEAKER_03: I'm sure that's how you say it.
20:08
SPEAKER_03: That is.
20:08
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
20:08
SPEAKER_03: And I found out actually, because I was looking up at uh Dorlock just to have a look what's on there, and there is an acclaimed uh seafood and game takeaway.
20:18
SPEAKER_03: It's called Surf and Turf.
20:19
SPEAKER_03: I had a quick look at the snakes and ladders.
20:22
SPEAKER_04: Well it's just a different kind of game.
20:24
SPEAKER_03: It's not a game.
20:26
SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
20:27
SPEAKER_03: Pheasants and grouse and all those things that you shoot.
20:30
SPEAKER_03: That game.
20:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that kind of game.
20:31
SPEAKER_03: But it looks great.
20:33
SPEAKER_03: Definitely worth popping in.
20:38
SPEAKER_04: Yes as well.
20:38
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
20:39
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
20:39
SPEAKER_04: And finally.
20:40
SPEAKER_03: Finally, we have uh yet another Scottish one, Strathaven.
20:43
SPEAKER_04: Stravan.
20:44
SPEAKER_04: Stravan.
20:45
SPEAKER_04: Oh god.
20:45
SPEAKER_06: So if you want to see uh We need to get Dave a t-shirt that's got it written on.
20:50
SPEAKER_06: Do you remember Mallet's Mallet, the kids' game show where Timmy Mallet had a mallet that like a rubber mallet?
20:57
SPEAKER_06: I'm thinking of getting that.
20:58
SPEAKER_06: That's like to donk Dave's.
20:59
SPEAKER_06: I don't remember that at all.
21:01
SPEAKER_06: That must have been on ITV or something.
21:03
SPEAKER_06: It might have been.
21:04
SPEAKER_06: It might have been yes.
21:05
SPEAKER_06: Different time.
21:06
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
21:06
SPEAKER_03: So that's it.
21:07
SPEAKER_03: March ranting fees.
21:08
SPEAKER_06: Very good.
21:08
SPEAKER_04: Okay, so that's you only get those if you are a member, and you should be a member, because for just six pounds a month, you get that.
21:14
SPEAKER_04: You get full access to everything we produce, you get full access to the back history catalogue of all of the webinars we've done.
21:20
SPEAKER_04: Um, you get full access to the forum, and it costs six pounds a month.
21:24
SPEAKER_04: It plus a whole load of other benefits.
21:26
SPEAKER_04: It's a bargain.
21:26
SPEAKER_04: Flyer.co.uk forward slash membership.
21:29
SPEAKER_04: There you go.
21:30
SPEAKER_04: And talking of uh webinars recently, we've had how to use the radio, how to make friends and influence people in ATC with Darren Lewington.
21:37
SPEAKER_04: That was a good one.
21:38
SPEAKER_04: It was a good one.
21:39
SPEAKER_04: Licensing update with their Bellamy.
21:40
SPEAKER_04: I know we've got some good ones coming along.
21:42
SPEAKER_04: We got a Channel Island special coming up before too long as well.
21:45
SPEAKER_04: More news on that later.
21:46
SPEAKER_04: There's loads of really good stuff.
21:47
SPEAKER_04: You should join, please.
21:49
SPEAKER_04: It will help.
21:49
SPEAKER_04: And if you really if you can't afford six pounds a month and or you don't want to do it, then at least give us a like, comment, and subscribe on this one.
21:56
SPEAKER_04: That will be really helpful.
21:57
SPEAKER_04: Good.
21:57
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
21:58
SPEAKER_04: Thank you very much.
21:58
SPEAKER_04: Right.
21:59
SPEAKER_04: Over To the main topic then.
22:04
SPEAKER_04: Okay, electronic conspicuity and uh will the CA be mandating it soon.
22:08
SPEAKER_04: Just to put a bit of context in here, let's look through a timeline to see what happened.
22:12
SPEAKER_04: Back in 2019, the Civil Aviation Authority consulted on electronic conspicuoury.
22:18
SPEAKER_04: That was CAP 1776, if you're interesting.
22:20
SPEAKER_04: The response to that was published in CAP 1837.
22:23
SPEAKER_04: None of this was understandable by a normal mortal, anyway.
22:26
SPEAKER_04: Electronic Conspicurity was positioned as an enabler of maintaining safety and managing complexity.
22:32
SPEAKER_04: That sounds like ChatGPT speak, doesn't it?
22:34
SPEAKER_04: Then in July 2025, the CDA published CAP 3140, which was the initial technical concept of operation CONOPS.
22:43
SPEAKER_04: This set out nine proposed technical positions, including equipage report uh requirements and ADSB standards.
22:49
SPEAKER_04: ADSB is a recurring theme.
22:52
SPEAKER_04: Um in the 6 on the 6th of October, there was a consultation.
22:56
SPEAKER_04: The consultation closed on that on 1340, and there were 808 responses, 90% of those from the GA community, of which 60% came from the um gliding, parachuting, hand gliding community.
23:10
SPEAKER_04: Then on the 2nd of March, so this week, the CA published CAP 3217, which was the consultation response document.
23:19
SPEAKER_04: So the key outcomes from that, there were all nine core positions were maintained.
23:24
SPEAKER_04: ADSB on 1090 or 978 looks like it's going to be the thing that's confirmed.
23:30
SPEAKER_04: Equipage thresholds.
23:31
SPEAKER_04: I've been a bit of a dave there.
23:32
SPEAKER_04: 140 knots seems to be a key number.
23:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
23:36
SPEAKER_04: Um, and there's a mandate.
23:39
SPEAKER_04: Um, there's a consult consultation forthcoming about a potential mandate.
23:44
SPEAKER_04: Um I think we'll move on to some questions rather than listening to me read out this stuff.
23:50
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, sure.
23:51
SPEAKER_04: Because that's all getting a little bit heavy, isn't it?
23:54
SPEAKER_04: So, Dave, you've spent some time looking at this.
23:57
SPEAKER_04: Deep deep joy.
23:58
SPEAKER_03: Just a bit.
23:59
SPEAKER_04: Having read it all, how likely do you think it is that we're going to get an ADSB electronic conspicuc an ADSB-based electronic conspicuity mandate?
24:07
SPEAKER_03: The very quick answer, it's highly likely.
24:09
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I would say it's certain it's almost a certainty.
24:11
SPEAKER_03: The reason is that the CEA has got to come up with a solution for integrating drones into uh general airspace.
24:19
SPEAKER_03: Somehow they have to do it.
24:20
SPEAKER_03: The current system is you know, uh see and avoid.
24:24
SPEAKER_03: That's not gonna work for a drone.
24:25
SPEAKER_03: Uh because they're blind.
24:27
SPEAKER_03: Because they're blind.
24:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:29
SPEAKER_03: So they have to have some kind of detect and avoid.
24:31
SPEAKER_03: This is the the phrase that recurs throughout the uh Conops document, as they say.
24:36
SPEAKER_03: Uh so they're gonna have to come up with something.
24:38
SPEAKER_03: They've looked at all of the you know current possible systems such as ADSB, FLAM, pilot aware, um, and mode C and Mode S, all these kind of electronic technologies.
24:51
SPEAKER_03: Um, but ADSB looks like the one that they're heading towards.
24:56
SPEAKER_03: In fact, I would say it's definitely the one they're heading towards.
24:58
SPEAKER_04: Which which which is they they were pretty clear about that in there.
25:00
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
25:00
SPEAKER_04: Different from the ADSL, ADS Lite, which seems to be the European pathway.
25:05
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
25:05
SPEAKER_03: I mean yeah, I mean the CA really they needed something which was what they're called interoperable, so it needs to work with various types of systems, and uh you know the ADSB seems to fulfil and there's a lot of equipment out there already available for it, so it's not a brand new technology.
25:22
SPEAKER_04: No, we realise at this time that ADSB versus the rest of it is a bit like a religious war.
25:26
SPEAKER_04: So we're expecting to have a whole load of people telling us that we're completely wrong and everything else, or the CA is completely wrong, but we're just kind of reporting on what we've got in there.
25:35
SPEAKER_04: Um Right, Ed.
25:37
SPEAKER_04: So what's driving all of this?
25:39
SPEAKER_04: What's driving all of this?
25:40
SPEAKER_06: Um Well, clearly, drones and and one thing in particular, which is beyond visual line of sight operation.
25:47
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
25:48
SPEAKER_06: Because for drones to fly outside of the site of their operators, they're gonna need some technology on board, aren't they?
25:56
SPEAKER_04: Frankly, you know, the operator site is is is gonna be a minor part of the market, isn't it?
26:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
26:01
SPEAKER_04: It's gonna all be autonomous.
26:03
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you want drone dr drones, I know the the the it the clue is in the name.
26:08
SPEAKER_04: They need to go off and do their thing and not rely on the I can't wait until we've got a skies full of all the time.
26:15
SPEAKER_04: I do still wonder about it.
26:16
SPEAKER_04: Remember during the Olympics, some amazing camera in the Olympics.
26:20
SPEAKER_04: But it was really I mean, probably wasn't intrusive as you were going down the slope at 70 miles an hour.
26:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
26:25
SPEAKER_04: But for everyone watching, it's like just shut up.
26:26
SPEAKER_06: The Winter Olympics, yeah, the new sound of drones.
26:29
SPEAKER_06: The new sound of the Olympics.
26:30
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
26:30
SPEAKER_06: Basically drones, isn't it?
26:32
SPEAKER_06: Is that going to be something that we hear in our airspace in the future?
26:35
SPEAKER_06: I suspect it probably is.
26:36
SPEAKER_06: It certainly is.
26:37
SPEAKER_06: But yeah, so uh to operate um uh BBLOS, so beyond visual line of sight, in non-segregated airspace, um that's I mean that for the CA is gonna be an integral part of the airspace modernization plan.
26:52
SPEAKER_06: Um so yeah, so you've got to have the tech to enable that.
26:56
SPEAKER_04: And that's the that's the current thinking from the CA.
27:00
SPEAKER_04: Have you come across the 140 knot thing in there?
27:02
SPEAKER_06: I have seen yeah, I've I've seen mention of it, and obviously I am interested in it.
27:06
SPEAKER_06: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
27:07
SPEAKER_06: Because you you kind of straddle either side of that.
27:09
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I've got I've got two aeroplanes that have some Well, I have two aeroplanes that are directly affected by the 140 knot speed thing.
27:20
SPEAKER_06: Uh one uh so uh so the two R V3s that I fly, uh one small engine just about manages 140 knots.
27:29
SPEAKER_06: Um so that is I'm pretty happy that that's gonna be um not an issue.
27:34
SPEAKER_06: Just fly that a little bit slower.
27:36
SPEAKER_06: Oh well, yeah, I can fly a little bit slower.
27:37
SPEAKER_06: But the other one, bigger engine, very happy to go much faster than that.
27:40
SPEAKER_06: And I'm going, hang on a minute.
27:42
SPEAKER_06: I'm I'm I've so the the small engine one is equipped with a sky echo.
27:47
SPEAKER_06: It's a very simple aeroplane, has a handheld, no transponder, but I have got a sky echo in it.
27:52
SPEAKER_06: The bigger engine aircraft has a trig radio uh trig transponder um with a TN72 um uh position box.
28:04
SPEAKER_06: Um so but I yeah, I'm and that only operates at um SIL, which is SIL one.
28:12
SPEAKER_04: So I think 140 knots or below.
28:14
SPEAKER_04: The proposal, as far as I understand it, yeah, and this will be subject to further consultation, is that if you're 140 knots or below, yeah, you'll need SIL SIL 1 and SDA1 is acceptable.
28:26
SPEAKER_04: SDA?
28:27
SPEAKER_04: So SDA system design assurance and SIL source integrity level.
28:32
SPEAKER_04: Right, okay.
28:33
SPEAKER_04: So basically, uh how much can the detecting aircraft drain or whatever trust what you've got?
28:41
SPEAKER_04: So 140 knots or below, SIL 1, SDA1 is acceptable, and that is what some of the uh portable devices in CAP 1391, yeah, another fascinating document um uh apply to.
28:57
SPEAKER_04: If it's over 140 knots, then you'll need the SIL 3 SDA2 level, which is effectively the certified stuff, which is why I suspect on your position source to get the higher level it will need a certified antenna and so yeah, because I di cause part of me was because you read this and you go, well hang on, I I I went out and equipped, I I thought I was equipping sensibly, and now it's like, well, this sounds like it's gonna cost me more money.
29:24
SPEAKER_06: And it does actually sound like it's gonna cost me more money because um my TN 72 um uses a um just uses a small non-certified antenna.
29:35
SPEAKER_06: Uh sounds like I'm I may have to have the the certified antenna.
29:40
SPEAKER_04: But they have a shame to have a fast aircraft that you couldn't go fast in in non-segregated airspace.
29:44
SPEAKER_04: That's basically whenever that happens.
29:46
SPEAKER_04: So, I mean that's we're delving a little bit deep deeper into the EDSB thing.
29:51
SPEAKER_04: Dave, what is what mention has there been of things like FLAM or or pilot aware and and the other systems?
29:59
SPEAKER_03: Well, they've they've they've mentioned them, but they've come up to with a straightforward conclusion.
30:03
SPEAKER_03: Other systems may remain supplementary but not primary.
30:07
SPEAKER_03: So in other words, you can still have your pilot aware, and if it um you know if it could be a very useful uh traffic awareness device, which is what it is at the moment.
30:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:17
SPEAKER_03: So you can still have that.
30:19
SPEAKER_03: It's just that you will also have to have an ADSB uh put out to give away to give your opposition to any drones that are around.
30:27
SPEAKER_04: So the drone the so in the it would seem that the drones will not have to detect pilot aware will not have to detect FLAM.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: They're only gonna they're only give they're only gonna have to detect ADSB, but they're gonna have to detect two frequencies of ADSB, 978 and uh 1090.
30:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:48
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
30:49
SPEAKER_06: But like you say, you know, you can still if if you have pilot aware and that is a good aggregator of all traffic sources, yeah.
30:55
SPEAKER_06: Uh if that's your your the way you get traffic display in the cockpit, you can carry on.
31:00
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
31:01
SPEAKER_04: And obviously if you're a glider and you're flying from a gliding club and everyone's got flarm, that's really useful because of the collision algorithm in it.
31:07
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:09
SPEAKER_03: So I was going to say that FLARM will almost certainly continue because it's so entrenched into the gliding community.
31:15
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
31:16
SPEAKER_06: Um and we did see some, we saw some figures, didn't we?
31:19
SPEAKER_06: Because uh there was a freedom of of information, yeah.
31:23
SPEAKER_06: Uh request, uh which was up to the end of the EC uh rebate scheme that the CAA ran.
31:31
SPEAKER_06: And uh basically there was 8,212 applications, uh 3,754 were from PPLs, 2,300 uh were from BGA BHPA people, uh and I'm guessing the remainder we don't know.
31:47
SPEAKER_06: Um but there was 1.9 million pounds paid out.
31:50
SPEAKER_06: Uh so that 1.9.9 million pounds paid for 4,771 Sky Echo 2s, um 1,566 FLAM and PowerFlam units, uh£1,01 uh pilot rosettas.
32:09
SPEAKER_06: So and uh also uh a number of You could say 1,000 one Dalmatians That's 101 Damations Jack Our Studio Dog just walked in front of it.
32:17
SPEAKER_06: Uh plus there's uh there was a a the remainder number of people buying Modass transponders and other other bits of kit, but those were the big numbers.
32:26
SPEAKER_03: Um let's get clear Sky Echo 2 that that's that that broadcasts an ADSB position, doesn't it?
32:32
SPEAKER_04: So current Sky Echo 2 is a Cap 1391 device and it broadcasts an A ADSB and it has a SIL level of one and an SDA level of one.
32:43
SPEAKER_03: So that's suitable for aircraft up to 140 knots.
32:47
SPEAKER_03: Above 140 knots.
32:49
SPEAKER_03: It isn't.
32:50
SPEAKER_04: It isn't currently.
32:51
SPEAKER_04: I don't whether they got plans to do anything or not, I don't know.
32:54
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
32:54
SPEAKER_04: Um but yeah, it is it is a complicated, it's a because we're not this is not a situation where we know exactly what's happening.
33:04
SPEAKER_04: That we're just kind of trying to guess, depending on the very strong hints that have been put out in the document.
33:10
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
33:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:11
SPEAKER_03: And and I I'm guessing again, I am guessing here, is that why not go for the whole everybody to have a certified system?
33:18
SPEAKER_03: So th uh presumably there's a cost element there, and maybe there's a power uh requirement as well.
33:24
SPEAKER_04: Well the and a space requirement.
33:26
SPEAKER_04: I mean a certified system will be a mode S transponder with extended squitter, mode S ES extended squitter, and it as a full GPS, full fully certified GPS position source with the antenna and everything else, and the power requirement for that and the weight of all of that, that's a chunk of a chunk of stuff.
33:44
SPEAKER_04: Now, if you're if you happen to be someone who steps off of Westbury White Horse or another escarpment with your under your parasail under your parasail or your hang glider or something like that, you're not going to have that plus a 12 volt battery going around and powering it all and putting stuff in.
33:59
SPEAKER_04: That's just not uh appropriate.
34:00
SPEAKER_04: No.
34:00
SPEAKER_04: But you'd probably struggle in to fit one in the R V three.
34:04
SPEAKER_04: Although you pro I no well, you wouldn't struggle, but you you it's it's a chunk of the yeah.
34:08
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and certainly in an aeroplane that that's been that's been designed to be simply equipped, it would be a pain.
34:14
SPEAKER_04: And and even more importantly, you're not gonna be able to fit those things and get them fitted and signed off and everything for a small amount of money.
34:22
SPEAKER_04: No.
34:22
SPEAKER_04: That's gonna end up being that could quite easily be two or three years of people's aviation budget.
34:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
34:30
SPEAKER_06: And you know, not being funny, I'm sure faced with that, a lot of people a lot of um GA aviators would feel like they were being penalized for the drone.
34:39
SPEAKER_04: Well, some would say if the drones want to participate in the airspace then should be down to that.
34:48
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
34:48
SPEAKER_03: I can you've got to be realistic in that they've got to have some the drones have got to have something to to detect.
34:54
SPEAKER_03: Um but it could be cheaper, you know.
34:56
SPEAKER_03: It could be cheaper because the drone industry is quite well funded just to pay for all the It could and it yeah, yeah.
35:02
SPEAKER_03: Just to pay for it.
35:03
SPEAKER_03: And who knows?
35:04
SPEAKER_04: Who knows?
35:04
SPEAKER_04: You'd need a regulator with I was gonna say another word then that I didn't want to say.
35:11
SPEAKER_04: In a regulator with some kind of determination.
35:14
SPEAKER_03: Yes, iron iron grip.
35:15
SPEAKER_04: Iron grip.
35:17
SPEAKER_06: I mean there is there is no question that I I was at uh I I I was at an event a while ago where the where drones was talked about around the the dinner table, and it's like why, you know, why have they become such a thing?
35:31
SPEAKER_06: And you go, there's a lot of money in this.
35:33
SPEAKER_06: And and I think it's not being the people in the world of drones don't opera don't occupy the mindset of regular aviation certification taking forever.
35:48
SPEAKER_06: There it's money and it's speed of things happening.
35:52
SPEAKER_04: And I think as well, even without all of that, which is undoubtedly true, yeah, what we would have seen and what will trickle down into the other into civilian drones is the amount of advances that have take place taken place as a result of the the war in Ukraine and now that drone technology is just let forward, so that will feed its way down.
36:13
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, for sure.
36:14
SPEAKER_04: Um so yeah.
36:15
SPEAKER_04: So anyway, I guess we should probably wonder about what's going on in the future in that case.
36:20
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
36:20
SPEAKER_04: I wonder what does the future hold?
36:22
SPEAKER_04: What does the future hold?
36:23
SPEAKER_04: Well, the CF told us that there is some planned activity for 2006.
36:27
SPEAKER_04: They are going to conduct further testing trials and research.
36:30
SPEAKER_04: Well, they should have done that already, some would argue.
36:33
SPEAKER_04: Validate emission quality and SEAL SDA thresholds.
36:36
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
36:37
SPEAKER_04: Refine speed criteria.
36:40
SPEAKER_04: Sounds like we're there already, on that.
36:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you think so?
36:43
SPEAKER_04: Develop a ground infrastructure policy.
36:45
SPEAKER_04: Well, that's gonna take God knows how many meetings, that well.
36:48
SPEAKER_04: Um continue development of uh various other policies and revise CAP 1391.
36:53
SPEAKER_04: So there's a whole I mean that that encapsulates a whole load of stuff, and some might say that that's gonna take a little while.
37:01
SPEAKER_04: Uh late this year, early next year, yeah, there will be an updated version published, in theory, of the uh electronic conspicuousity technical concept of operations conops.
37:12
SPEAKER_04: So that should be with us.
37:13
SPEAKER_04: Um and that would have included I say that would have taken account of consultation feedback.
37:18
SPEAKER_04: Again, quick question here.
37:20
SPEAKER_04: Hands up, how fully we think they'll be taking account of consultation feedback.
37:28
SPEAKER_03: If they think they're gonna take it well, I think they will take account of it, but I think they'll ask the questions or pose the questions in such a way they get the answers they want.
37:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well there was a lot of answers in that one that they didn't want, but I think they're gonna Yeah.
37:40
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
37:40
SPEAKER_04: So I don't know.
37:41
SPEAKER_04: It just seems a it seems a little bit strange, doesn't it?
37:44
SPEAKER_04: Um anyway, there'll be it will reflect the the the new con ops will reflect the consultation feedback.
37:50
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
37:50
SPEAKER_04: Um, technical trials, ground infrastructure development, and all sorts of other things.
37:54
SPEAKER_04: And then future, uh currently no date specified, they have said that there'll be a separate public consultation on a mandate for electronic conspicuousity.
38:05
SPEAKER_04: Oh, cracking.
38:06
SPEAKER_03: So if if this was a CA running a proper business that could not operate like this.
38:11
SPEAKER_03: No.
38:11
SPEAKER_03: You'd just get on with it, wouldn't you?
38:13
SPEAKER_03: You'd say, okay, the best system out there is ADSD.
38:16
SPEAKER_03: Let's do it.
38:17
SPEAKER_04: I like the idea of being consulted.
38:18
SPEAKER_04: I like the idea of people taking notice of a lot of the points that are it does, you know, it kind of moves things a little bit, but it's it does fit it does.
38:28
SPEAKER_04: Some people have talked about regulatory capture, whereas the whole drain industry has really got the CA on side effectively.
38:36
SPEAKER_04: Oh, for sure.
38:37
SPEAKER_06: But it it I miss it's like Dave says, it does feel like you're staring, looking up a tunnel going, train, train, train.
38:45
SPEAKER_03: When will it arrive?
38:47
SPEAKER_06: Let's insult on the train coming.
38:49
SPEAKER_03: What they haven't uh cleared up yet is who's going to pay for all this ground infrastructure.
38:53
SPEAKER_03: I mean it's not insubstantial, the stuff that has to be built.
38:57
SPEAKER_03: And at the moment, there's no there's there's no funding for it.
39:00
SPEAKER_04: There's quite a lot of stuff in the airspace modernisation program provision of certain services that that are not currently funded either.
39:08
SPEAKER_04: So I think you know, but we all know that that everyone's flush with loads of money anyway, so I think I don't think that'll be a problem, will it?
39:16
SPEAKER_03: No.
39:19
SPEAKER_04: Right.
39:19
SPEAKER_04: Should we change the subject?
39:20
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, something different.
39:21
SPEAKER_04: Let's get on to something.
39:24
SPEAKER_06: Ed, what are we doing next?
39:26
SPEAKER_04: I can't say the word.
39:27
SPEAKER_06: Shall we uh shall we find out what caught our eye this week?
39:30
SPEAKER_06: Let's do that.
39:32
SPEAKER_06: Fantastic.
39:32
SPEAKER_06: Uh Dave, what caught your eye this week?
39:35
SPEAKER_06: I'm gonna come to you first.
39:36
SPEAKER_03: Okay, what caught my eye this week was that A4s is back.
39:39
SPEAKER_03: A4's is back, yes, yes.
39:43
SPEAKER_03: But it's been through a little tough period, I'd say, for a for a website.
39:47
SPEAKER_03: Um A4s, it was just aircraftforsale.com.
39:50
SPEAKER_03: Um except, surely.
39:53
SPEAKER_03: It went offline for a little while, or was in and out off and on, um, while it was being redesigned.
39:59
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you can't say that the original A4s was a thing of beauty, um, but it did work very well, and it had a certain familiarity which we all like we've all kind of liked.
40:10
SPEAKER_03: We all loved.
40:11
SPEAKER_03: And and I'm pretty much in there, certainly two or three times a week, looking at fixed-wing microlites.
40:16
SPEAKER_06: What's it says two or three times a week?
40:18
SPEAKER_06: There's there's a few of us that lightweight everyone lightweight.
40:22
SPEAKER_03: Well, anyway, it's back.
40:24
SPEAKER_03: It's it's different, slightly different.
40:26
SPEAKER_03: Still the same sort of colouring, sort of various shades of blue.
40:29
SPEAKER_06: But it's a bit posher now, isn't it?
40:31
SPEAKER_03: It is a bit posher, yes.
40:32
SPEAKER_03: It's uh it's a little bit bigger.
40:34
SPEAKER_03: And I haven't tried it on my mobile yet, so I I don't know whether it's fully responsive, but I'm back seeing lovely things like a fixed wing coal for sale.
40:42
SPEAKER_03: Oh and uh which is a a micro a bit like a thruster but with a bit of a more pointy nose.
40:49
SPEAKER_04: It was a thruster SSDR project that came with four it is a project, so it's a pile of bits.
40:54
SPEAKER_04: Yes, and we can come with four engines.
40:55
SPEAKER_04: Four engines, yes.
40:56
SPEAKER_04: I mean not so that you could have a four-engine thruster.
40:59
SPEAKER_04: And it was offers no offers over 2K.
41:01
SPEAKER_04: I mean that if if I had That's five hundred metal engines.
41:05
SPEAKER_04: If I had lots and lots of spare time than a heated hangar with power, I would go there I quite fancy that.
41:12
SPEAKER_04: That's a bit of that'll be an interesting project.
41:14
SPEAKER_04: I don't have the spare time or a heated hanger.
41:16
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I I do find that the lack of hangar space keeps me in check sometimes because you see things and you go, ooh.
41:24
unknown: Yeah.
41:24
SPEAKER_04: Well what we really need is we need someone to say agriculture's not very profitable at the moment.
41:30
SPEAKER_04: Would you like this big flat, well-drained field?
41:32
SPEAKER_04: And by the way, it's got this amazing barn with a power station that you can have and turn it into like a workshop and an office and a studio and everything else, and it wouldn't be very much.
41:40
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
41:41
SPEAKER_04: That's what we need.
41:42
SPEAKER_04: Wouldn't that be great?
41:43
SPEAKER_04: I guess everyone.
41:44
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, A4s is back.
41:45
SPEAKER_06: A4's is back.
41:46
SPEAKER_06: That's a relief.
41:48
SPEAKER_06: There are a lot of people that were suffering withdrawal.
41:51
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
41:52
SPEAKER_06: Should I go next?
41:52
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, Ian, what did you find?
41:54
SPEAKER_06: I found an aeroplane.
41:56
SPEAKER_04: Did you find an airplane?
41:57
SPEAKER_04: It's an airbus.
41:58
SPEAKER_04: An airbus?
41:58
SPEAKER_04: That's not very exciting.
42:00
SPEAKER_04: It is.
42:00
SPEAKER_04: I think it's quite exciting.
42:01
SPEAKER_04: It's a Balanca Airbus.
42:02
SPEAKER_04: Right.
42:03
SPEAKER_04: Did you know Balanca made an Airbus?
42:05
SPEAKER_04: I'm not sure I did.
42:06
SPEAKER_04: No.
42:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
42:07
SPEAKER_04: I mean, think Balanca, think Citabria, it's nothing like that.
42:11
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
42:11
SPEAKER_04: So whatever.
42:12
SPEAKER_04: It started off as an Airbus.
42:13
SPEAKER_04: Um and it didn't finish up as an Airbus.
42:16
SPEAKER_04: It finished up as a an air cruiser.
42:19
SPEAKER_05: Ooh.
42:20
SPEAKER_04: So it was the pre- the Airbus was the predecessor to the aircruiser.
42:23
SPEAKER_04: Basically, this is the granddaddy of commercial bushflying.
42:27
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
42:28
SPEAKER_06: And this is I mean this is quite an unusual looking machine, isn't it?
42:31
SPEAKER_06: It's a sesquipane.
42:33
SPEAKER_06: Ah.
42:35
SPEAKER_06: Not enough S not not enough sesquic plane in the world.
42:37
SPEAKER_06: Can you say that, Dave?
42:38
SPEAKER_06: Obviously sesquiclane.
42:42
SPEAKER_06: Is there a sesame plane from Pipistral?
42:46
SPEAKER_04: Sorry to be slightly slightly cruel there.
42:48
SPEAKER_04: So a sesquary plane is basically a biplane where the lower normally the lower wing is significantly shorter than the higher wing.
42:53
SPEAKER_04: And this particular sesquic plane, as you can see, is kind of using its wing struts as a separate plane.
42:59
SPEAKER_04: It was a bloody huge beast.
43:01
SPEAKER_04: It carried 15 people at the end of its development.
43:04
SPEAKER_04: Literally.
43:05
SPEAKER_04: It was available on wheels.
43:06
SPEAKER_04: It was available on floats.
43:09
SPEAKER_04: It was available on skis.
43:11
SPEAKER_04: You know, whatever kind of undercarriage you wanted, you could use it.
43:14
SPEAKER_06: It was it was And the cool thing about it on floats was uh it didn't have it didn't have any of the normal um stay bars and things between the floats.
43:23
SPEAKER_06: So you could just taxi up and park over the dock.
43:26
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
43:27
SPEAKER_04: It's got quite a few cool things about it.
43:29
SPEAKER_04: Uh one of the not so cool things about it is it was originally powered by something called a Curtis Conqueror engine, which I was not aware of at the time.
43:37
SPEAKER_04: You probably know all about it.
43:38
SPEAKER_04: I have heard of that engine.
43:40
SPEAKER_06: There's probably a reason that we don't that it's not a popular engine nowadays.
43:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was a V it was a V twelve liquid cord engine.
43:48
SPEAKER_04: Big chunk of a thing.
43:49
SPEAKER_04: I mean it would be great in a car, wouldn't it?
43:50
SPEAKER_04: But it didn't really work too well in the so they didn't sell any of those, so they thought we'd better we'd better change that.
43:58
SPEAKER_04: Whoa.
44:00
SPEAKER_04: So anyway, I'm guessing it was a little bit more than that.
44:01
SPEAKER_04: We ended up with the right cyclone at the end, a supercharged radio engine, and ultimately 715 horsepower.
44:07
SPEAKER_04: There we go.
44:08
SPEAKER_04: In order to prove its capability, the test pilot in 1931 said, I'm gonna go flying.
44:14
SPEAKER_04: Flew 4,400 nautical miles over 35 hours.
44:18
SPEAKER_04: Okay, that proves something.
44:19
SPEAKER_06: Which is like And are any of these still in existence?
44:25
SPEAKER_04: Do you find in existence?
44:26
SPEAKER_04: Two.
44:26
SPEAKER_04: In the museum.
44:28
SPEAKER_04: Two basically.
44:29
SPEAKER_04: There is one in the Ericsson Aircraft Museum in Madras, Oregon.
44:33
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
44:34
SPEAKER_04: Which is, you know.
44:35
SPEAKER_06: I that there's a possibility that might still fly.
44:40
SPEAKER_04: Or it has flown in the past.
44:42
SPEAKER_04: Well it definitely has flown in the past.
44:43
SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
44:45
SPEAKER_04: There's another one that's in the middle of being restored.
44:48
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
44:49
SPEAKER_04: Um, and that's in the Canada Aircraft Museum in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
44:53
SPEAKER_04: Um so that there you go.
44:55
SPEAKER_04: The other the the last thing, which I think is quite impressive about it, the last version, the 715 horsepower version, could uh lift more than its own weight.
45:04
SPEAKER_06: Not many aircraft that do that.
45:06
SPEAKER_06: Not many that that can do that.
45:08
SPEAKER_06: Cherokee 6, D266, D-140.
45:12
SPEAKER_06: But there's not many.
45:13
SPEAKER_06: It's not a common thing.
45:14
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
45:14
SPEAKER_04: No.
45:15
SPEAKER_04: We're good at building Lardy aircraft.
45:16
SPEAKER_06: That is, and and one thing's for sure, if you had one of those and turned up at a fly-in, that is definitely one of those no one else is going to turn out.
45:22
SPEAKER_06: No one else is going to turn out.
45:23
SPEAKER_06: I mean, as you can see by the picture, it's not the most beautiful.
45:27
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
45:27
SPEAKER_06: I quite I quite like it.
45:29
SPEAKER_06: I it may not be beautiful, but it is and it's got real presence.
45:32
SPEAKER_04: But I think, you know, I I kind of look at it as the inspiration for things like the beaver and stuff like that.
45:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah it really was okay, how can we commercialise this kind of backcountry bush stuff?
45:43
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
45:43
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
45:43
SPEAKER_06: Brilliant.
45:44
SPEAKER_06: Anyway, there you go.
45:45
SPEAKER_06: How about you, Ed?
45:45
SPEAKER_06: What did you think about it?
45:47
SPEAKER_06: Well, uh I was uh browsing the internet and Facebook reminded me of an epic grass strip landing, but this was an epic grass strip landing, and you're going, what with this in an epic turboprop?
45:57
SPEAKER_06: Well, no, no, no.
45:58
SPEAKER_06: No, it was an epic grass strip landing.
46:00
SPEAKER_06: And you might go, oh, is it a bush plane or something?
46:02
SPEAKER_06: But it's like, no, it was a 74,000 kilogram Illusion 62 four-engine jet airliner.
46:08
SPEAKER_06: It's an oldie but a goodie.
46:10
SPEAKER_06: Uh, and um uh in this video clip uh basically uh the ill the Eleutian 62 makes a um a very dusty, uh dusty debris-strewn arrival.
46:20
SPEAKER_06: It was flown by a guy called Heinz Dieter Kalbach.
46:23
SPEAKER_06: Uh and the aim of this was to deliver this aircraft uh to Stoln Reinhau Airfield in Gollenberg, which is home to the Otto Lillenthal Museum.
46:33
SPEAKER_06: Now you might remember Lillenthal was the pioneer of foot launch gliders off a hill.
46:39
SPEAKER_06: Um so he'd made his last flight at the same airfield a hundred years prior to Calbach's landing, and this Ilution was named for uh named Lady Agnes, which was named for Lillenthal's wife.
46:53
SPEAKER_06: And basically they were they're like, Well, we're going to retire the aeroplane.
46:56
SPEAKER_06: Where should we retire it to?
46:57
SPEAKER_06: Let's retire it to the Lil Lillenthal Museum.
47:00
SPEAKER_06: But someone went must have gone, hang on, that's only a 900 meter grass strip.
47:04
SPEAKER_06: So um the Germans said, Hold my beer.
47:06
SPEAKER_06: Hold literally hold my beer.
47:08
SPEAKER_06: Um it happened in October 23rd, 1989.
47:12
SPEAKER_06: Um, and it's worth a watch.
47:13
SPEAKER_06: We'll put a link in the description to the full video here, but uh obviously you can see in the clip dirt and dust everywhere, and apparently there were big chunks of turf uh missing.
47:23
SPEAKER_06: Uh, but it was successful, uh, despite all the people uh in the video looking like it wasn't.
47:29
SPEAKER_06: There were a few people worried, weren't there?
47:31
SPEAKER_06: Well, and and amazingly, I'm so that aircraft is now a museum.
47:34
SPEAKER_06: You can even get married in it today.
47:36
SPEAKER_06: Um uh interesting story on Calback as a pilot.
47:39
SPEAKER_06: He went on to have a uh fairly decorated uh flying uh commercial flying career.
47:45
SPEAKER_06: Uh he was attacked in the cockpit in March 2000.
47:48
SPEAKER_06: Someone broke, an intruder broke into the cockpit.
47:50
SPEAKER_04: Why did you bring this Russian blade to our museum?
47:53
SPEAKER_06: Um An attacker broke into the cockpit and and he had a fight uh in the cockpit with this guy, managed to restrain him, um and um and they were able to land the airliner successfully.
48:04
SPEAKER_06: So Calback, bit of a bit of a grass strip um pilot intruder, uh cockpit intruder hero guy.
48:11
SPEAKER_06: So uh but yeah.
48:13
SPEAKER_03: Did it do any performance calcs before making that landing at the end?
48:17
SPEAKER_06: You know, I'm I'm guessing that's the sort of calculations you don't want to do because all the answers will be no.
48:24
SPEAKER_04: Everything would have been completely stripped out of that.
48:26
SPEAKER_04: It probably landed with about another 15 minutes of fuel remaining or something.
48:30
SPEAKER_06: And it's not like he had a like a it was a nice flat approach with no obstruction.
48:33
SPEAKER_06: There was a big old forest and he had to kind of drop it in after that.
48:37
SPEAKER_06: So I just just stunning.
48:39
SPEAKER_06: And the next time someone says I need a cub on 96-inch tires, you go, No, actually, you couldn't do this in the airliner.
48:45
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, once at least.
48:48
SPEAKER_06: Only once.
48:48
SPEAKER_06: Dave events.
48:49
SPEAKER_03: Yes, there's uh still going on this month, is the aerial treasure hunt at Retford Gamston Airport.
48:54
SPEAKER_03: It's going on all months.
48:55
SPEAKER_06: Hasn't no one found the treasure yet?
48:56
SPEAKER_03: Not yet.
48:57
SPEAKER_03: Not yet.
48:58
SPEAKER_03: Um next week there's uh the uh an event called Verticon, used to be called Heli Expo, H I I.
49:03
SPEAKER_03: Over in the States, isn't it?
49:04
SPEAKER_03: Over in the States, yeah.
49:05
SPEAKER_03: But it's the trade fair for the world's helicopter industry.
49:09
SPEAKER_03: Um there's uh there is a Gasco safety scheduled.
49:13
SPEAKER_06: The last of the few.
49:18
SPEAKER_03: At Tayton Hill on the 11th of March.
49:20
SPEAKER_03: I would suggest checking before you go to make sure that's on, given that Gasco is a bit in the process of winding up.
49:26
SPEAKER_04: There's another one later than that as well.
49:27
SPEAKER_06: There's one happening at Kemble, um Coxworld Airport, Kemble, end of the month, I think.
49:33
SPEAKER_06: Um I think Gasco have said that they're while they are tapering out, the ones in March are are all happening.
49:38
SPEAKER_03: So looking a bit further ahead at Slate, there's an Easter flower bombing uh flying event.
49:46
SPEAKER_03: 22nd of March.
49:47
SPEAKER_03: 22nd of March, yes.
49:48
SPEAKER_03: Brilliant.
49:49
SPEAKER_03: So if you fancy going flower bombing, let sleep.
49:53
SPEAKER_04: Well, there you go.
49:53
SPEAKER_04: Right.
49:54
SPEAKER_04: Okay, on that note, thank you very much for watching.
49:56
SPEAKER_04: Thank you very much, team.
49:57
SPEAKER_04: Don't for thank you very much, Henry.
49:58
SPEAKER_04: Uh don't forget, if you're not a member, you should join.
50:01
SPEAKER_04: You should join now.
50:02
SPEAKER_04: W.fly.
50:03
SPEAKER_04: No one says www.
50:04
SPEAKER_04: I don't even know.
50:05
SPEAKER_04: I said it.
50:05
SPEAKER_04: Flyer.co.uk forward slash membership.
50:08
SPEAKER_04: Go there, six quid a month bargain.
50:10
SPEAKER_04: The price will be going up, but not for a little while.
50:12
SPEAKER_04: Um, but that's no reason not to surprise now.
50:15
SPEAKER_04: Have a great weekend.
50:16
SPEAKER_04: Enjoy your flying.
50:17
SPEAKER_04: Bye.
50:17
SPEAKER_04: Bye.
50:19
SPEAKER_06: Join the Flyer Club and be part of the UK's biggest GA community.
50:24
SPEAKER_06: Save hundreds of pounds with freelancing vouchers, watch expert led webinars, and access all the online content on flyer.co.uk.
50:31
SPEAKER_06: All this and more from just£6 per month or£62 for the full year.
50:36
SPEAKER_06: Join today at flyer.co.uk forward slash membership.