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Matrix But Vampires | Underworld · Potato Chip Pictures - A Podcast

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This movie, man, I watched it twice and I still don't think I
0:05
could tell you what happened. In it, I kind of had to slow it
0:10
down and and think about what they're saying.
0:16
But I don't think I've seen a supporting actor.
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Who's the Mac Guffin not do as much as this guy?
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He's he. He exists in the movie.
0:37
He Buttercup from The Princess Bride is more interesting than
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this guy, and she's the Mac Guffin of her movie.
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Yeah, I could. I would agree.
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This guy eventually, like I think an hour or so in, you get
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some exposition of what we've been seen, but it was still so
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sparse. I think the most distracting
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thing for me with this guy is that he looks so much like Scott
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Stapp, the lead singer of Creed. Like I every time I watch this
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movie, I'm always like, is that Scott Stapp?
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No, that's a totally different actor who just happens to look
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like the lead singer of Creed. Just got the nineties 2000
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slicked back blonde hair. It's very grunting.
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Middle part, yeah, yeah, it's, I mean, thank goodness for the
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third act exposition 'cause otherwise.
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What's happening? Pretty.
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Disappointed. Yes.
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It's, I feel like it clears up a little bit of the beginning, but
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if we rate this on a first watch basis, it will be a lot lower
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than second watch because, but then you have to really commit
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to be like, oh, I'm, I'm curious what the story is because you
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don't come away satisfied with the story, but at least you will
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understand it on the second time a little bit.
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True, true. And this was one of those movies
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where, you know, it lived in home media.
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That's where that's where it made a lot of its money.
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That's where a lot of these 90s and 2000s movies made their
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money. They would do OK in box office
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and then gangbusters on television syndication or DVD
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sales. And I know I've seen this movie
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a lot more on television than I ever saw intentionally.
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Hello and welcome to Potato Chip Pictures, the movie franchise
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review podcast. Currently looking at the
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Underworld franchise, My name is B Sammy Davis.
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Hello, I'm Justin. And today we are looking at
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2003's Underworld directed by Lynn Wiseman, written by Danny
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McBride. It had a budget of 22 million
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and came home with nearly 96,000,000.
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So very good for a brand new franchise.
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You know, just. First out of the gate, yeah.
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Yep, and made more than quadruple it's budget.
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So good on it in that regard. It's, I mean it, it's got Kate
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Beckinsale as probably her probably her best character,
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like at least her most iconic. Yeah, I can't tell you a single
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other movie that, oh wait, I think she's in serendipity.
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That's the only other one that I know she is in.
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And you know, she's great in I, I can't think of anything
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specifically that I have seen her in, but I I know that she's
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a very talented actress, but this was her big AAA I'm the
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star action franchise. And you know, she's probably the
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best part of the whole thing. I mean I'd argue that Davy Jones
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and Ora Michael Sheen are competitors because they I feel
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like they sell the most. I am the leader of my clan type
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feeling. And.
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For good reason. They're phenomenal actors.
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Yeah, I, I was just about to say Michael Sheen.
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It always shocks me to remember that that is who is in this
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movie, 'cause he's such a big deal actor these days and he's
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just, he's just a, a werewolf who's kind of in the movie.
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I guess he's the big bad. Right.
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He's supposed to be the big bad, but it all kind of just rotates
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around houses that are what's the word?
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They betrayed themselves. And just.
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It's. I think it all hinges on the
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part where Kate Beckinsale says we're not supposed to dig
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through our history. Oh, OK.
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So a red flag. OK.
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Yep. Oh man, that was, I mean, and of
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course it was this. This is a trope.
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Whenever you have the people at the top saying, no, you
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shouldn't understand history or we need to change history
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because it makes us look bad, then those are the bad guys.
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Like if your history makes you look bad, you learn from it.
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You don't bury it and hide it. But on the other hand, that's
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like shorthand to the audience to be like, oh, the good guys
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are really the bad guys, like. Everybody in this sucks.
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Nobody in this is good guys. Well.
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Then briefly you also mentioned Bill Nighy is in this movie and
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he's when you brought him up, I I remembered he's my favorite
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part of this movie. It's not Kate Beckinsale.
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It it's, it's Bill Nighy. He's the best part of this.
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The only person that plays a vampire that is convincingly
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dangerous, I feel like the first fight that they get into that's
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not him but vampire versus werewolf.
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Vampire just get the body slam to be really fast and it's like
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squeaks as he's going down. It's like, Oh well, I guess you
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overestimated your ability to fight a werewolf.
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I'll completely agree with you there in the overall view like
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the the 10,000 foot view of this movie and this movie alone
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because I might have seen the second one but I have not seen
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anything else beyond that and there's like 5.
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Yes, I did not know. I think I knew there was a
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sequel. And then it's like, oh, there's
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OK. It keeps going I I completely
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forgot what I was talking about. You hadn't.
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You might have seen the sequel. Bill Nye, 10,000 Foot View.
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Ah, 10,000 foot view. Thank you.
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At least in this movie. I don't know anything about the
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sequels. Vampires are kind of wimps.
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Like. They can get beaten hand to hand
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by a lichen AKA a werewolf. They have inferior arms to the
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werewolves. Yeah, just everything about
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them. They seem weak.
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And then Bill Nighy comes in, and he's the old man who can
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destroy everything. I I keep forgetting that we, you
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know, see the death of another elder, Amelia.
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Oh yeah. Because she's, she's a nobody
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character, but she's supposed to be an elder.
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Like he's the third in the most powerful vampires.
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They even if they didn't have Lucian still it could they just
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several good ambushes away from tearing apart the vampire
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hierarchy. Mm hmm.
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Yeah, like the the werewolves had a solid plan even without
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their whole mythology that they were chasing, you know, if even
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without them chasing their magic, they pretty much took out
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the entire top brass of the vampires.
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Well, let's, let's get into it. Specifically, I gotta say I we
9:40
start off with the French horns and the black trench coats and I
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always think of this movie as Matrix with vampires.
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It's decent, I mean, doesn't follow much of the the what do
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you call it, betrayal or the plot of Matrix?
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But Oh yeah, 100% with the black costume.
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Purely style. Purely, you know, approach and
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decoration and destruction of the environments.
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But otherwise we are in quote UN quote, the real world.
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It's just the real world with vampires and lichen.
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Yeah, yeah, I think the the voice over I think only happens
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maybe one other time, maybe at the end also, but.
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Yeah, I think it's at the very end.
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They kind of need it to set up a little bit.
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I can't imagine really understanding much unless they
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added in more exposition without it people actually talking about
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death dealers and 600 years. But I think even the narration
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just sets this up to get confused because Victor's asleep
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for forever. He's supposed to be waking up.
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Marcus is asleep, but the Lucian incident happened 100 years ago
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or something like this I think. It was longer than that because
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it was the last time Victor was in charge and Victor is 2 down
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the chain because Marcus is next to.
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Be And it's like maybe we need that information.
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I don't know that we do. They're just vampires and
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werewolves, but. Yeah, I someone poisoned my
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mind. Don't know.
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They were like anytime a movie needs an opening narration, it's
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because they didn't have, like, good enough writers to be able
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to bring the audience into the world.
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And sometimes I'm like, no, that's not true because of Star
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Wars and Lord of the Rings. And I'm.
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I love those ones. But then in this one, I kind of
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agree. I'm kind of like, oh, yeah.
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Like you didn't trust the audience to believe you when you
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brought us into this world. Like I would have been fine with
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them just starting at the top of the towers watching the thugs
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stalking some dude. I don't need any explanation.
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I don't need to know that they are lichen.
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I don't need to know that the people who are watching them are
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vampires. I think they could have done a
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lot more by just trusting the audience to pick it up as they
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went, but whatever they told us their whole hierarchy and their
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corporate structure. Yeah, yeah, I think it could be
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a nice surprise if you had nothing except the what's
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happening. But then they don't say a word
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for a long time. They just fight.
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So I feel like that might have been a little bit too much to
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ask of a movie. We say nothing.
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I think the first time the balding vampire shows his fangs
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we would have been like, OK, so those are like maybe vampires,
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Maybe they're like some monster type thing.
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Oh, he's melting from some kind of light bullet.
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And then for sure the first time a lichen turns into a werewolf.
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Like there is no misunderstanding what they did.
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And that is a lot of movie to trust the audience with.
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But I think they could have done it.
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I think they could have gotten away with it.
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Well, the rest of it doesn't really shine so.
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You don't like the gratuitous gun battle between these ancient
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enemies in a modern day subway where civilians get hit?
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I think the gun battles work with things like the Matrix, and
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they work here fine. I think they're second or maybe
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even 3rd on the list of not directly in the movie, but the
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things that are set up and produced for the movie stunts.
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I feel like there's a decent amount of those with the
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exploding casings and everything.
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But like later on there's a car flip that's entirely
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unnecessary. But you see like Michael Sheen's
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face and you see all the, what do you call it, cutouts that
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they do around his hair to try and make it look nice and it
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it's not bad. Second to that is all of the
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viscera and gore. I feel like that's part of where
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this shines. It's yes, werewolves and and
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vampires, but man, they commit with the stage makeup and
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everything and the CGI of the bullets coming out, evolution in
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this elevator scene. It still works for me.
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Like I've had it up on like a tablet and it doesn't look bad.
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And maybe it's because you were on a tablet.
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I was on a pretty big TV screen and it it did look a little bit
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like original Blade blood to me, like slightly off color.
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But I will say the very first werewolf transformation that
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worked for me it's. Creatures of the dark
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transforming in the dark, so it's not like I need to see
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them. But that one's a fairly well
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lit, the one inside the subway, like, I don't know, I feel like
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I'm getting a lot of detail from this transformation.
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Enough detail when they're on the train later with Amelia,
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it's a little bit rough. It's like those look like the
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Rick High costumes, which isn't awful, but the computer
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transformations aren't bad I don't think.
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I will agree with you there, especially the Amelia train.
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It kind of feels like they had large models that they were just
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shifting left and right with a strobe light going.
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And could be. Like it just doesn't look as
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good as the rest of the movie. And frankly I don't think any of
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the werewolves themselves really look good at all.
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I'm more impressed with the transformations.
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That's where I'm usually like this movie shines.
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They have a really close up transformation when 2 werewolves
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are like fighting at the end of that gun battle.
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And it's not awful. I mean, they turn back into
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humans and it's average werewolf fare for 2003.
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I kind OK the only thing we skipped over post gun battle,
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but still part of that intro to the chase.
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I really like the silver throwing stars that Celine uses
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against someone. That's cool.
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But yeah, then we immediately go to that werewolf fight scene
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with the transformation, and I kind of wish we had seen these
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two put their clothes on because I didn't get it until my second
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viewing that they were the cops for the rest of the movie.
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Nope, same year. Like I knew the cops were in on
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something but then they don't transform into werewolves.
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And you never see one of them has long hair, so you have no
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way of knowing. But yeah, those two are the cops
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for the rest of the movie who are chasing after Michael.
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So yeah, I that like it's a cool transformation to go from
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werewolf into naked man, but they're so different looking
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naked than with clothes on that I just would have liked them to
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put the clothes on so I would know that we didn't just look at
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2 naked men for no reason. They exist and now yeah, I did
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not realize they were the cops cause the cops kind of show up
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in several places. It's the same too.
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They are on a mission, they're just very bad at that mission,
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but they're very committed to it.
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Yeah, they are in on the plot, which the plot so far is.
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We're watching Michael get tailed by werewolves.
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Werewolves fight vampires, vampires kind of get beat up,
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and she realizes that it sounds like there's a lot of werewolves
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out here when they're supposed to be nearly extinct.
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So that becomes her main concern, which for OK.
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Most of the movie. To this movie's credit, she
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stays on task for pretty much the entire runtime.
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The exception being I feel like some of the conversations with
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Michael just. Oh.
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Yeah, I feel like they must have cut some out or just not written
19:24
it very convincingly for me because they talk so jilted.
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And then it cuts in with other scenes.
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And then we still don't even hear if this woman in a picture
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we see for two seconds is or was Michael's wife.
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And if she is dead or if she is the woman in the hospital bed.
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And how in the world did I find out that he was a surgeon intern
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from his roommate? Like whenever he gets done
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getting bitten, it's very what do you call it?
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Circuitous. Yeah, that word.
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Taking a circular route. It's just so granted it's it
20:15
feels mostly unimportant to the plot.
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Sure, he she's bleeding out and he saves her life because he's a
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medical student, but it it really doesn't feel like his
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other than being the Mac guffin, he's not important and that can
20:35
be OK. I just feel like then make him
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less vital. Yeah.
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Because he becomes the the Deus Ex machina at the end.
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Like, yeah, he OK. So important by the end, but he
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doesn't matter. Yeah, that's a good way to put
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it. I yeah, I agree with you
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completely. I get the impression in this, I
21:07
might be speaking out of school, but I do get the impression that
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there was a script that existed and then while they were filming
21:16
it, someone on set was like, wouldn't it be cooler if they
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did or said this and then later on in filming they're like, oh,
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that's the reason we didn't do that.
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Well, now we're stuck with it. So let's try to film around it.
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And like, I don't know, there's just times when they.
21:35
OK. The thing that that pops into my
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head the most is the #2 girl. I forget her name but she's
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chasing Victor and Victor does not care about her.
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And one she's chasing. She's the blonde girl who's in
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the mansion and she's just so Craven.
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That's his name. Victor is.
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Yeah, so she's into Craven. Is Erica.
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Erica, she at one point, Craven needs to tell his dark secret
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that that we the audience have found out.
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He needs to share it with someone.
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So he turns to Erica and he's like, can I tell you a secret?
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Meet me in my room so I can tell you this pivotal secret that
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only you can be trusted with. And he gets there and she
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immediately starts sleeping with him.
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And by the time they're done parking, someone shows up and is
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like, Oh no, you have to go here.
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It's an emergency. So Erica never heard like.
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Yeah, yeah. And then he, like, skips out in
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the car and still hasn't told her anything.
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Yeah, I mean, we'll, we'll get to that.
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But Craven is maybe my least favorite. 0100.
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Character I and on 2nd viewing it still is not good that he may
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be acting that way because he has the secret.
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It's still just not convincing. It feels, it feels like I wish
23:21
it would have been more convincing, yeah.
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I completely agree because the first time we meet him is when
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she shows up to be like, I found all these lichen, we got to go,
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we got to go get them and he comes up and he's like, that's
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impossible. And I'm like, if this is an
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ancient war and you guys hate each other, and wouldn't the guy
23:46
in charge be like, let's go? Right.
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Yeah, maybe not as bad as C in No Time to Die or whichever one
23:58
that was from James Bond, but very close because all of his he
24:05
he has like this feigned interest in Kate Beckinsale's
24:09
character to be his queen. And it's like.
24:11
Well. I don't feel like queen
24:14
necessarily means anything to the audience right now.
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That other than of course there's a man trying to
24:22
subjugate her or something like, but it doesn't matter and the
24:28
queen doesn't mean anything to us.
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And yeah. On top of that, like they start
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talking about how there's gonna be this merger of these clans.
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Why were the clans separated if there is one of these three, you
24:46
know, top vampires in charge, why would there ever be a time
24:50
when the clans are separated? And on top of that, if they are,
24:54
why isn't the third clan coming in and joining?
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So there's just so many of these things that they tried to set
25:03
up, but then they lead to more questions to me.
25:06
But whatever, we're not going to get any time with them.
25:09
We got to hear our weird science.
25:13
Yeah, I'm trying to think because she goes back, she is
25:18
disbelieved and I think she starts researching.
25:24
But we hear that Craven was the last person to see Lucian alive
25:27
and he has proof that Lucian is dead.
25:29
But we feel like, well, seems like he's up to something.
25:37
But I don't think the movie says his name for a while at least I
25:44
feel like maybe not until she says or she reads the book and
25:48
sees the little medallion. Yeah, I don't remember.
25:51
I'm. I'm trying to because I know
25:53
that in between those scenes we get the lichen scientist who is,
26:01
who tells us all about the blood and how there needs to be a pure
26:05
source. And they need Michael.
26:10
Yeah. It's like it's just more of that
26:14
exposition to tell us what is happening.
26:17
But yeah, then when we come back, oh, when we come back,
26:23
she's still after Michael. She does not suspect Craven yet.
26:28
Yeah. Because she sneaks off to go to
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Michael's apartment. Oh yeah, and he's not there
26:35
because he's getting cleaned up by his roommate.
26:40
That like we see in two scenes, yeah, like he's recognizable for
26:46
something else, but. I'm trying to remember who he is
26:49
because he's a pretty big deal actor.
26:52
Was it? It was Wentworth Miller who was.
26:56
A yeah. Oh, he's the jailbreak guy.
26:57
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.
27:00
Prison break. Prison break.
27:03
I never watched that but. I watched the first half of the
27:06
first season and I liked it a lot and then I just stopped
27:10
watching it. But.
27:12
Yeah. I don't know if I would want to
27:14
keep coming back to the same crew getting into prison to
27:19
break out again. Like I don't know why it got as
27:22
many seasons as it got, but good for him.
27:27
It's a mystery, yeah. But yeah, in like the two scenes
27:32
that we get with the jailbreak or prison break guy, the first
27:37
one, the cops show up, second one, he gets the cops.
27:41
So I guess we're still at the hospital the whole time.
27:46
Yeah, because he's giving, he's sending like a voicemail to,
27:52
well, Celine's there. But then he brings the cop
27:56
werewolves over to Michael, which objectively, Michael was
28:02
kind of like freaking out because.
28:05
Michael hasn't been bitten yet. I'm sitting here thinking like
28:08
why? Why would why would he even go
28:10
see the doctor? Because he hasn't been bitten
28:13
yet. Well, I don't know, I've man,
28:17
I've gotten this out of sync because it's, there's a bit of
28:21
jumping around in it. Well, at the apartment, you're
28:25
right, Celine breaks in. There's the voicemail because
28:28
the cops showed up at the hospital and Michael walks in
28:35
even though he knows that someone has broken into his
28:38
apartment. And then?
28:40
He's like an elevator. Yeah.
28:42
He gets in an elevator, Yeah. Well, in the further stupid the
28:47
whole thing, Celine like grabs him by the neck and holds him up
28:51
on the wall and she's like, why are they chasing you?
28:54
And he's like, I don't know, why are you trying to kill me?
28:58
Like. And that's when the lichen show
29:02
up and yeah, elevator Lucian, he bites.
29:07
She sees the necklace. That's going to start the
29:10
mystery. So.
29:11
And. He gets a vial of blood from
29:13
Michael. Like do you need Michael anymore
29:17
if you have the blood? Like from what I understand.
29:20
So I'm going to jump way to the end, and I think I picked up on
29:24
this. The original plan was to steal
29:29
Michael's blood and Amelia's blood, and both of them were
29:35
going to go inside of Lucian. But then Lucian at the end,
29:40
before getting Amelia's blood, he gets shot and so he pivots
29:47
and makes the plan. OK, then let's give vampire
29:51
blood to Michael. Does that make sense?
29:55
Like that's, I think that's what they were going for.
29:58
Like Michael, Michael was meat. He was not meant to survive.
30:04
It was only because he got away and all the plot happened around
30:10
him that he becomes important. Yeah, I'd agree.
30:16
And the the timeline might be a little off, but I think, yeah,
30:22
he just needed his blood and her blood.
30:27
And then he gets betrayed by Craven because they're just, you
30:31
know, both trying to get their power and something like that.
30:37
Like you turned your back on Craven.
30:39
That's. It's his name, yeah.
30:44
So the betrayal may be inevitable, but yeah, that's
30:51
that's far ahead. I think there's a lot of
30:55
there's. A lot of cool in between.
30:58
Yeah, because she fights the lichens and gets Michael out and
31:04
then I kind of don't. Oh, she passes out, he saves
31:08
her, etcetera. You mentioned, you know Lucian
31:14
getting the bullets out. Yeah.
31:18
I want to point out the bullets going in like I thought that was
31:23
so brutal. It happens very quickly, but
31:28
it's very visceral. It I it earns this movie it's R
31:33
rating. Like you see him get shot in the
31:35
neck, like in the head. It is pretty intense.
31:41
And then the only beef that I have with them running away to
31:46
the car and him getting the bullets out is the music they
31:49
chose feels like it's building to something and it never builds
31:55
to it. It just stops when they're
31:58
driving the car again, like. Crashes and they have to get out
32:03
of there. I kind of feel like I lost focus
32:06
when that first happened. The first watch through the
32:10
second round like, oh, they crashed and he saved her.
32:13
Their romantic interest doesn't lead up to, I don't think it
32:18
even earns the lamest kiss on screen when they're chatting at
32:24
the interrogation place. And he just told her kind of
32:28
about his wife that passed away. And if he'd known what he knew
32:31
now, he could have saved her. And she's telling him about
32:35
Victor saving her out of her family and it's just not bonding
32:43
enough. I feel like because they're
32:46
maybe he just seems so soft spoken about it all that I mean
32:53
maybe it was hip to be emotional deeds it.
32:57
It was in the Yeah, in the early aughts that really was it.
33:02
Being distant and aloof, that was the sexiest thing in the
33:06
world. But I'm I'm going to pull the
33:11
reins back because we don't get to that amount of love.
33:17
Yes, you mentioned the car crash, you mentioned the water
33:22
and you mentioned that that Michael saved Celine.
33:27
And I go to. They go back to the house, they
33:30
go back to the Manor and, like Erica, is obsessed with this
33:36
human. Yeah.
33:38
Until she discovers that he's been bitten.
33:41
And Craven's just ridiculous. Yeah, Craven's just jealous all
33:45
over the place and gross and weird, but that is what starts
33:50
the investigation, which I think is an interesting turn for the
33:57
movie. Like, of course we knew Craven
34:00
was like the bad guy. He's it's it's in his name.
34:05
He's awful. But to start to get that mystery
34:09
to be like, wait a minute, why would Craven work with the
34:14
werewolves? What's going on like?
34:19
And then we get the the assassination of Amelia, where
34:25
it doesn't look particularly great.
34:28
At some point she wakes up Victor.
34:31
I'm like. Yeah.
34:34
My memory of it is so convoluted.
34:36
Maybe it's because of the color palette because I don't know
34:39
where anything's happening. Here's how it happened now.
34:44
Or visual distinctiveness. Yes it does happen around here.
34:49
You are correct because this was the part where I jumped online
34:54
to say these vampires have reflections because it's
35:01
critical. To the.
35:02
Fact that she can speak into a mirror so that Victor will see
35:07
through her eyes as she speaks. And I'm just like.
35:11
And writing Victor on the mirror before she smears it out without
35:17
the context that he eventually gives when he gets her memories
35:21
was so weird. Very jarring.
35:25
Like what is she doing? This feels like, I don't know,
35:29
angsty teen writing something and smearing it out and it's
35:33
like, OK it. Really does.
35:36
Oh my gosh, it feels so angsty and maybe that's why it did so
35:43
well. Possible.
35:47
But it, I mean, it's an interesting idea.
35:51
I have to give this movie credit where credit is due.
35:56
And the concept that for two centuries, these elder vampires
36:03
are just dried out husks of the meat.
36:08
And the first blood that they will consume will not only wake
36:13
them up, but they're going to inherit the memories of that
36:17
blood. Like, that's a very cool idea.
36:23
And then I don't think they proceeded to really do it well
36:28
because when Bill Nye he wakes up, he just complaints about how
36:32
confused he is and how he just doesn't understand anything.
36:36
And. Yeah, and where you say it's an
36:39
idea, I think it even has some pieces that aren't explained,
36:49
which isn't bad, but I didn't quite notice until second watch
36:54
through that the sarcophagus where they're stored comes out
36:58
of the floor and you see like the guy's feet coming out first
37:06
and then his chin, and it's like they're upside down.
37:09
This is like, oh, it's not a big deal because then she turns him
37:14
and you could, I missed it. And then it's like, oh, there's
37:18
a little bit of lore that nobody points out, and it's, it feels
37:24
accurate to a vampire, even if it's just, you know, a silly
37:28
classical nod. And they've got so many of these
37:34
nods to the mythology. That's why it bugs me so much
37:38
that they can't pay attention to things like reflections.
37:44
In here, Yeah. Yeah.
37:48
So I mean, I do enjoy that he is so wizened.
37:51
And eventually, with all of his blood transfusions going on, he
37:55
gets back to his normal state and he looks just vampiric.
37:58
But every stage is different and it just feels so alive.
38:05
I I think that's my shining example of enjoying the vampire
38:14
part of this movie. Like Craven sucks as a vampire.
38:18
I was just about to say, as much as I hate Craven, he makes these
38:22
scenes even better because he's so fearful of Victor.
38:28
And I'm just like, man, between Bill Nighy just living it up and
38:33
Craven being a sycophant, I'm in the world for most of these
38:40
scenes, so. And that's where it feels
38:43
different than the death feeling and the skulking around trying
38:47
to find information like it's a vampire that's been awakened
38:52
early and a guy that has a secret from him.
38:55
Like this feels like a nice complete scene of just two
39:01
characters getting information and doing exposition that that
39:09
helps the audience. So aside from that, I don't love
39:15
much else. Well, well, there's like times
39:17
when he rubs at his head and I get these Voldemort vibes from
39:23
it where like, I don't know, there's just something so
39:26
Serpentine. I, I just love how Bill Nighy
39:32
played Victor. It's so good.
39:36
Really, really good. We got to run away again from,
39:42
you know, the, the vampires. We've had shockingly good
39:46
vampire scenes. I've, I've got to say, really
39:52
enjoyable for the last chunk of movie.
39:55
Michael ran away. Celine has to go find him.
40:02
Where does she find? I I'm trying to remember.
40:05
I think this might be when he went to the hospital.
40:09
I cannot remember for the life of me.
40:13
Yeah, probably. She gets him and gets him to the
40:17
safe house where she locks him up and then eventually the cops
40:23
are going to get him as well. So I think that he goes to the
40:28
hospital and she saves him. This movie is so hard to follow.
40:33
Yeah, it's like I feel like the Matrix being in the same sort of
40:40
colours and stuff, at least it feels not logical but just
40:48
proceeds at steps and you learn stuff and that makes it stick
40:54
with you. Like I we learn that at the safe
40:59
house they are involved with synthetic blood and that's how
41:03
they make their money. And that doesn't really
41:08
consolidate what I know of what's happened.
41:11
Well, yeah. So she leaves him here and then
41:17
has to come back and get him because the lichens get here.
41:21
But I don't know what she does in the meantime.
41:24
Well, she finds, so this is part of that confusion.
41:30
At some point she's able to capture the scientist werewolf
41:36
because she brings him to Victor.
41:40
And Victor is like, yeah, of course Lucian is still alive.
41:45
And on top of that, we are chasing a myth.
41:49
We are chasing the original Corvin DNA or whatever it is,
41:56
Corvinus virus, so that you know, that's the big exposition
42:02
for the movie. But I'm just sitting here
42:05
thinking, how did she get Michael back?
42:09
Because Michael ran away long before she ran away.
42:15
And then how did she capture the doctor?
42:19
So I'm missing a chunk of movie in my head but I can't remember.
42:24
She gets into the safe house, gets him there because he's
42:29
bitten, he'll turn into a werewolf.
42:31
They bond over whatever they're saying and they have a really
42:34
lame kiss. It's such a bad kiss.
42:37
Like she leaves him there and goes back to the coven to talk
42:43
to Victor and warn about Craven on the way.
42:51
So right then is when Amelia gets ambushed and she she, she
43:00
gets I. Think you're right?
43:02
She gets house arrested. Yeah.
43:04
And has to get out so she. Has to break out now.
43:08
She she's stuck in a room and. The exact same room that Michael
43:13
was locked in. Erica.
43:14
Because they both jump out the same window.
43:17
Erica goes and turns off the lights so she can get out, and
43:21
I'm like, oh, the darkness, the vampire's weakness.
43:24
Vampires can never see in the dark.
43:27
They killed him like I mean. He maybe could have done
43:31
something else, but OK fine. So that's when she gets back to
43:36
Michael. But they captured.
43:39
And that's when the werewolves show up.
43:41
Yeah. Yeah.
43:43
And so then she comes back with her proof.
43:46
That's when we get the exposition about the virus.
43:50
I kind of, OK, I have to say as far as exposition goes, I kind
43:57
of liked it. This was a bit of lore that they
43:59
dropped where I was like, oh OK, this is cool.
44:03
So you've got this original Hungarian Prince or king who
44:08
gets a version of the Black Death that doesn't kill him but
44:15
instead makes him immortal. And then he proceeds to have
44:19
children, two of whom become well, one of whom becomes
44:24
Michael, the first vampire, and the other becomes the first
44:29
werewolf. Like they just drop that as lore
44:34
on the side and I'm like this is dope.
44:36
The way that Bill Nighy says it as well, I was kind of confused
44:40
for a second because it sounded like he said one werewolf, one
44:44
like and and one human. And I was like, wait, you said
44:47
two people? How are you saying three people
44:50
like so? Yeah, it, it was just a a good.
44:56
There's so many things that are made better because Bill Nighy
45:00
is in the scene. Yeah.
45:02
Like, yeah, well, I think that all sets it up to be like, OK,
45:12
the the scientist guy kind of let's out that Craven is
45:18
communicating with Lucian and Craven disappears out of the
45:20
place and kind of has to go on the run.
45:24
So. So he's going to show up with
45:27
Lucian at some point, Michael's going to get captured by the
45:31
cops again. That's the part I'm trying to
45:34
remember. Well, so at the safe house she
45:38
unlocks him, but she fights him off.
45:40
He jumped out the window and the cops are down there.
45:44
He's turning into a werewolf in the car.
45:46
That's right, because. She jumps down and she's too
45:50
late. And he gets.
45:53
We next see him chained up where the werewolves had the other
45:56
guy. I I got to point out that the
45:59
dumbest the dumbest thing in this mostly dumb movie is when
46:07
Michael is is turning into a lichen in the car and the the
46:14
driver turns up the music so dumb you.
46:18
Have the drug to make this not happen and you're going to wait
46:21
until he's almost there to then. Just turn it up, make it louder.
46:26
Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I feel like the plot could
46:34
be interesting because it's all a case of our history says that
46:40
Lucian was just bad. And he tells Michael that we
46:46
were actually enslaved by the vampires and fell in love with
46:49
Victor's daughter, and that's why he killed her.
46:51
And that's why we have this feud.
46:55
And it's like, OK. And on top of that, Victor also
46:59
killed Celine's family. Like Victor's a monster.
47:03
So it is like, oh, nobody is good in this one.
47:07
Like maybe the werewolves have a little more sympathy because
47:11
they were enslaved. But this is also one, two sides
47:19
of the blood feud. Just telling their stories as
47:21
they want to. I don't.
47:24
That I think you just hit the nail on the head.
47:29
We are told as an audience that we are supposed to believe the
47:33
memories of Lucian because they're from his blood.
47:37
They're his actual memories, man.
47:40
But you know, we in the present know that memory is fickle and
47:45
that when you remember something, you're not
47:47
remembering the original event, but rather the last time you
47:50
remembered it. And any changes that you made to
47:54
that memory get further changed with the new time that you
47:58
recalled it. So I'm when you just said that
48:03
he's just getting Lucian's perspective, I like suddenly it
48:08
washed over me how much more interesting this movie could
48:11
have been if they had at least continued to make it vague to be
48:17
like, well, yeah, that's just how you remember it.
48:21
What if Victor has a completely different memory of the event?
48:26
But that's that's not the movie we get to live with.
48:29
The movie we live with is that Lucian is the good guy.
48:33
He's just been the bad guy the whole time for no reason.
48:39
We're trying to make this super blood thing happen to destroy
48:44
the vampires, I guess. I yeah.
48:47
Oh yeah. I mean, I, I didn't, well, I
48:53
don't get the impression that it's to destroy the vampires.
48:56
I get the impression that it's to create something new, and
49:00
that something new could destroy the vampires, but he could also
49:05
destroy the lichen. Well, I mean, he does fight both
49:09
of them at the end, right? Well, he definitely fights
49:14
vampires, the vampires, and then he just kind of glares at the
49:17
lichen and the werewolves back off.
49:20
So they don't actually fight. They just kind of, you know,
49:25
hideaway from him. Interesting.
49:29
I well, so essentially I lost her name.
49:37
Celine is told by Victor to kill Michael because he's an
49:43
abomination. If he turns into this whatever
49:46
thing, you have to kill him, and then we'll be cool.
49:52
So she gets a little bit of conflict there at the end.
49:54
But also, I haven't been sold on the romance like several James
50:01
Bond movies. It just doesn't feel like she
50:04
has quite so much motivation to not to kill him other than,
50:08
well, you don't have to kill this person, but.
50:13
I agree. I don't buy the romance and
50:18
honestly, in my head I don't buy the conflict that Celine is
50:24
trying to portray having when she's told to go kill Michael.
50:29
She looks like she's got doubt. And I'm like, why do you have
50:32
doubt? You don't know this guy.
50:35
You've never really talked to him.
50:36
You spoke to him one time and trauma dumped with each other.
50:40
You don't know each other. But yeah, we get the the famous
50:48
betrayal. And I have to say this is
50:50
another thing we're having A really good actor can really
50:55
elevate a movie. And Michael Sheen as Lucian
51:01
having his very scathing argument with Craven.
51:09
It's, it works for me, especially when he says
51:12
something like, oh, did you think you weren't going to have
51:14
to? Oh.
51:14
Yeah, during this. Coup.
51:16
I was like, oh, that's so good, that's really good.
51:21
Yeah, yeah. I think Bill Nighy's scenes,
51:24
Lucian's scenes, oh, we did skip way back when he was chasing
51:29
them after the elevator. There's like a practical car
51:33
driving by and then he or stuntman is also running by
51:37
super fast, but it's all practical.
51:40
I loved that. Oh my gosh.
51:41
Yeah. Couldn't skip that.
51:43
Yeah, and frankly, that's one of those things where in mythology,
51:49
any one of these vampires or lichens should be able to outrun
51:53
a car. So at the scene when the cops
51:55
get Michael and drive away, Celine should have been able to
51:59
catch up to them on foot. Yeah, but we only get a hint of
52:04
that with Lucian. Yeah, let's see.
52:08
We are to the final showdown, essentially, right?
52:12
Yeah, I so I haven't really talked about him.
52:16
Kind of the number 2 werewolf in the movie.
52:20
He is a named character and I can't remember his name.
52:24
I think it's Ray's maybe, but he's the black guy who's got
52:30
this really deep but kind of weird voice, and I am so
52:36
fascinated by him as a character.
52:39
He's the one we see change twice in the movie.
52:44
We see his werewolf model, most of everybody's werewolf models,
52:51
but he's got such a weird voice every time he speaks.
52:58
Very like, is that a stage voice he's doing or is that and that's
53:05
the. Thing part of me is like, this
53:07
has to be an effect and like a filter.
53:11
And then another part of me is like, well, why can't it be his
53:15
voice? If I were a casting director and
53:17
I had a bunch of burly dudes in front of me, and then I hear
53:21
someone with a weird, very distinctive voice and he fits
53:26
the the look, of course I'm gonna go with that person.
53:29
He'll stand out. It's like Andre the Giant when
53:32
he talks. Mm hmm.
53:34
Exactly. So I genuinely don't know if
53:37
that's his real voice or if it's a filtered voice, but I had to
53:42
bring him up now because he's almost done in the movie.
53:46
If we're talking side characters that we enjoy, I went from Bill
53:50
Nighy, Michael Sheen and now can't forget Robbie G is Khan.
53:57
Who's the guy That's like with the weapons dude?
54:01
I just love him from Snatch and in this one I think he plays a
54:06
good like confidant for the lead actress.
54:10
He's the Q type character for this movie and I don't like the
54:15
way he dies. I know they're killing off a
54:18
bunch of characters by the finale, but I've kind of wish
54:22
they had kept him alive. I would have liked to have him
54:25
for the rest of the franchise. Well, I must have missed when he
54:29
died. Oh no.
54:31
He's he's in a hallway. They start shooting in a dark
54:35
room and then a werewolf somehow just jumps up from the side of
54:40
him and. Oh.
54:42
Gets him. It's that's the other part that
54:46
annoys me is like how did this giant werewolf sneak up in a
54:51
well lit hallway? I guess they were just focused
54:54
on the dark hallway they were shooting in.
54:57
But not the side roads. Yep, peripheral vision is gone
55:02
for vampires. But yeah, that takes us to the
55:08
final fight where Michael eventually becomes a super
55:12
vampire werewolf. I don't know how Lucian got all
55:19
the way to where Celine and, well, Celine and Michael are
55:23
trying to hide. They're trying to get away.
55:26
Celine has decided she is going to turn traitor.
55:28
She doesn't care that he will become a werewolf.
55:31
She loves him, Dad. She's going to be with him
55:35
forever. They open a door and Craven is
55:38
just there. So he shoots Michael a bunch of
55:42
times. That's the drama.
55:45
And the part that that blows the mind is then somehow Lucian
55:49
shows up and he's been like critically wounded and somehow
55:55
he has crawled through all of these sewers to get to this
55:59
room. But.
56:00
He's there to make his final stamp.
56:04
Yep, he'll he'll stab his his arm blade into Craven and
56:11
whisper to bite him. Bite.
56:18
Him. Well, because we got to get the
56:20
vampire showdown with Michael, which just makes it like this is
56:29
not Michael's movie. Yeah, this is the part that
56:35
loses me the most. Like yes, he's the mega gonna be
56:39
able to fight Victor, but Celine only gets to do like the killing
56:45
blow and yeah. And it's a cheap shot, Like she
56:50
didn't even do a real fight. She had to sneak up on Victor.
56:54
Maybe she should have been developed more in like gadgets
56:59
for fighting or something but like it just feels odd because
57:07
he's not. He's not my favorite by the time
57:10
it all happens. I hate the design of the hybrid,
57:15
and then you brought it up. The my biggest beef with the
57:19
Hybrid is that it's Michael, the the guy who didn't matter for
57:23
this whole movie suddenly becomes Superman, and he doesn't
57:28
even become really Superman because he loses.
57:34
He doesn't know his powers. Yeah, that's what it is.
57:38
He just doesn't know him yet, man.
57:40
But the fact that the God like powers goes to the nobody
57:44
character and not the star of the movie.
57:49
It would be like if we were watching The Matrix, they get
57:53
Neo and then Morpheus becomes the chosen one, but we continue
57:57
to follow Neo for the whole movie.
58:02
It's. It's just strange that Michael
58:05
becomes the one, as it were, and that doesn't work for me.
58:11
I'm fine with Celine killing Victor.
58:15
It's a cool quick samurai style showdown.
58:20
He doesn't even know he's dead. Very Kill Bill.
58:23
Yeah. Slice I do love that Victor gets
58:28
to have a confrontation with a werewolf and just completely
58:31
overpower him 'cause it's like, Oh yeah, Victor is the vampire.
58:37
He whips out a sword to stab him, but yeah.
58:40
Like he already beat so the first werewolf he comes in,
58:45
comes in contact with, he beats him in hand to hand combat,
58:49
yeah, and then finishes him with his sword.
58:53
So that part I enjoyed for his character being a little more
58:57
fleshed out as Oh well, that's why Michael has to take him on I
59:01
guess. But.
59:03
And I just hate that it's Michael who has to take him on.
59:06
I get it. It makes sense the story they
59:09
wrote. Yeah, it makes sense that she
59:11
has motivation to be the one to kill him, but be the one to
59:15
fight him. Like, yeah.
59:17
Like or prove to us that this hybrid is truly more powerful,
59:24
but he's he can't do anything. And maybe it's 'cause he's, he
59:28
hasn't had any blood. That's what both of these
59:31
species need. They need mortal blood.
59:34
I don't know. I'm over here trying to make
59:36
justifications for something I hate in this movie.
59:40
I really don't like the character of Michael and I hate
59:43
that he becomes the Super Saiyan God.
59:47
Super Saiyan. Yeah.
59:51
Oh, well, I don't think we have to say too much more because
59:55
they just, they beat him and they run off because.
1:00:00
The wiki says that vampires and werewolves now are after them
1:00:03
and it's like, really? Is that what happened?
1:00:06
We we get our little final narration at the end to tell us
1:00:14
that they're going to be on their own.
1:00:19
Yeah, I, I have trouble with the werewolves are going to be
1:00:23
hunting them because I'm like, why?
1:00:25
They did what the werewolves wanted, right?
1:00:30
This was an absolute win for lycanthropy.
1:00:34
Yep. Oh well.
1:00:38
Is there any I'm trying to think of?
1:00:39
Let me look through my notes if there's anything else, because
1:00:42
high points are the viscera and blood and I guess gun effects
1:00:50
when she shoots a hole in the floor.
1:00:51
That's really cool. And then the acting is starred
1:00:55
by Bill and Michael and. And what's his name?
1:01:01
Robbie. Yeah, Robbie aside from the main
1:01:04
actress, but definitely not Scott Speedman as Michael.
1:01:10
I'm always going to call him Scott Stamp.
1:01:15
Not their best work as an actor, and it may have been the
1:01:19
script's fault because you don't have any reason to fight Victor
1:01:24
as much as Kate Beckinsale did. So let her be the victor.
1:01:29
All right. Well, before you give it a
1:01:31
number, let me tell the audience that on this show we do ratings,
1:01:37
not grades. The primary difference is where
1:01:39
you find the average in a grade. We don't want students to feel
1:01:42
bad. So we say A7 out of 10 is the
1:01:45
average, but that's not the average.
1:01:46
That's a 7 out of 10. We say A5 out of 10 is the
1:01:51
average. So it's neither good nor bad.
1:01:55
And even when you're in that territory, something below the
1:01:58
average or above the average doesn't necessarily say it's
1:02:02
great. It's we're just kind of putting
1:02:05
it on a number line as best we can.
1:02:07
So now that you've given us parts of your review, why don't
1:02:11
you finish it off for us? Finish it off. 1st watch this is
1:02:17
below A5. 2nd watch I think it's a just hits A5.
1:02:22
It's not it's not a strong Clive.
1:02:24
It is a weak 5. Mostly because you have the very
1:02:30
good classical actors I'd say. But you have just a a
1:02:38
unsatisfying conclusion to your plot.
1:02:41
I think the Kate Beckinsale character had a lot to do, yes,
1:02:48
but she doesn't get to join in the fight nearly as much as I
1:02:54
think her as the main character should have.
1:03:00
But yeah I I am pretty sound as being just a 5 because it could
1:03:09
have been worse and 1st viewing it is.
1:03:13
It's not great. It has not great exposition for
1:03:20
informing me of things and then even just after watching it 2
1:03:25
times I can't tell you where things happen in what order.
1:03:30
So see the earlier parts of this podcast where we struggle to
1:03:35
figure out where we were. What is happening?
1:03:38
So I am just A5, it improved upon second viewing because I
1:03:44
really wanted to see what they were trying to do with this
1:03:46
original story. Like it feels like an attempt
1:03:50
and I grant them that effort to say, sure, there's a House of
1:03:55
empires and there was a betrayal way long back and we're trying
1:03:59
to make something new happen for the werewolves that were
1:04:02
betrayed. Cool.
1:04:05
But how does that work out? Well, it kind of missteps in a
1:04:09
couple places. I couldn't agree with you more.
1:04:15
I I would say the things that I like the most are Bill Nighy and
1:04:21
Michael Sheen. I think the two of them really
1:04:24
elevate this movie. I like Kate Beckinsale.
1:04:30
I kind of wish she'd had more of a character in this movie, but
1:04:35
as far as a stoic action hero for the early aughts, she fits
1:04:40
right in there. She's, you know, she's a AAA
1:04:44
action hero with the rest of them.
1:04:46
And I am so happy that reading the other movie cast list, I
1:04:52
think she's in the last one too. And it's like, so maybe she gets
1:04:56
better at whatever her character is.
1:04:58
He's like James Bond Oliver again.
1:05:00
I mean, she owns this character and I'm glad that she held it
1:05:05
for as long as she did because, yeah, like it.
1:05:10
She does a great job. And in this one, she probably
1:05:14
does a good job, but it's still good enough to leave an
1:05:17
impression. And then the rest of the movie
1:05:21
I, I really don't like that much.
1:05:24
And I think this is a movie where I kind of rated it better
1:05:30
because I have a lot of interest in vampires and werewolves as
1:05:38
mythologies, as works of fiction, and I'm fine with
1:05:43
changing the rules and all that stuff.
1:05:46
It's just that there are certain things that I find so
1:05:51
interesting, and when those things are not in there, I take
1:05:56
it personally and I shouldn't. It doesn't matter.
1:05:58
It's part of fiction, but I just can't get over the fact that you
1:06:02
can see their reflections in the mirrors like that just drives me
1:06:06
insane. I'm at a four.
1:06:10
That's that's where I'm at. I think this movie is watchable.
1:06:13
I think it's fun, but I do have to turn my brain off to be able
1:06:18
to enjoy it. Yeah, I can agree there.
1:06:23
Well, that, you know, hold on, I got to change the colors now.
1:06:27
I always, I always put our reviews in white text on a white
1:06:32
background so that I can't see it.
1:06:35
But that gives us the obvious show average of a 4.5 out of 10,
1:06:41
just slightly below the middle. And you know, it's it's not a
1:06:48
great movie. It's not even a good movie.
1:06:50
But I I would still watch it again.
1:06:52
That's that's where I think I would fall.
1:06:54
I would watch the next ones. That's what I'll say.
1:06:58
I don't know, after watching it 2 times then I would come back
1:07:00
to this one specifically but. I, I would need to have some
1:07:05
time and I'd probably have to be watching it with someone who's
1:07:08
never seen it before, but but I would go back well.
1:07:11
We will go forward too. Yes, and I've probably seen
1:07:18
Underworld Evolution, but I don't remember much of it.
1:07:23
And if I saw any of Rise of the Lichens, that would have been on
1:07:26
television. And then Yep, don't know
1:07:30
anything about the last two. Yeah, we'll see.
1:07:34
Because one's like a prequel. I'm like, Oh well, the first one
1:07:38
is. The prequel, yeah.
1:07:40
So that one I'm kind of excited for because like you said, Bill
1:07:44
Nighy returns. I I want to see more Victor.
1:07:48
Who knows, maybe we'll actually get to see some.
1:07:50
Justification. For Amelia.
1:07:54
Maybe. But in the next one, it should
1:07:58
be Marcus. We got to see the the werewolf
1:08:01
blood dripping into his mouth at the end of this last movie.
1:08:06
So we'll get to see do this original vampire.
1:08:11
Was if we can check the continuity because apparently
1:08:15
the blood was from the werewolf scientist guy.
1:08:18
So it's like, Oh well, what does he know?
1:08:20
Yeah. Are are we, is are those
1:08:23
memories going to transfer? That's I'm glad you brought it
1:08:26
up because that is something I'm going to hold a lot more
1:08:29
critical to this next movie. If they completely ignore the
1:08:34
fact that memories are transferred and it was a
1:08:37
werewolf's memories that got transferred, that's probably
1:08:41
going to be a full point deduction.
1:08:43
But I'm just telling you right now that might happen.
1:08:45
Yeah. We'll have to see.
1:08:49
All right, well, if you want to support this show, give us a
1:08:53
rating review or comment on whatever platform you are
1:08:55
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1:08:59
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1:09:03
We're also producing shorts on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
1:09:09
And finally, if you want to send us an e-mail and tell us how we
1:09:13
are wrong because Underworld is the greatest movie that was ever
1:09:16
made, then do that by sending us an e-mail at
1:09:19
potatochippicturespod@gmail.com. And next week it's going to be
1:09:27
Underworld Evolution. So until then, thank you guys so
1:09:31
much for listening. Goodbye.