Latest / This Week On ICE / Noem fired after grilling on Capitol Hill, $1.2 million burned per day at Alligator Alcatraz.

Transcript

Noem fired after grilling on Capitol Hill, $1.2 million burned per day at Alligator Alcatraz. · This Week On ICE

0:07
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to This Week on ICE.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: It is March 6, 2026, and I'm Kelly Kimball.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm Matt Kendrick.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: On Thursday, U.S.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: President Donald Trump fired Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem,
0:19
SPEAKER_00: becoming the first cabinet member ousted during Trump's second term.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Oklahoma Senator Mark Wayne Mullen has been tapped to take her place.
0:28
Now,
0:29
Matt and I recorded this podcast shortly before the news of
0:32
Noam's ouster.
0:33
So bear with us as you may hear us call Noam the current DHS
0:36
secretary or even
0:38
SPEAKER_00: mention that no cabinet members have been ousted yet.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening and on with the show.
0:45
Over 1,000 people have died less than a week into the
0:48
U.S.-Israeli bombing campaign
0:49
SPEAKER_00: against Iran,
0:50
with the Islamic Republic unleashing massive regional
0:53
retaliation as well.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: But on Capitol Hill,
0:56
Republicans are attempting to use the war to strong-arm
0:59
Democrats into voting to
1:00
SPEAKER_00: end the mini-shutdown at the Department of Homeland Security,
1:03
SPEAKER_00: ICE's superseding authority.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Also,
1:07
the state of Florida was sued for withholding key documents
1:11
from the public that
1:12
SPEAKER_01: reveal exorbitant spending at Alligator Alcatraz.
1:16
The state is claiming it's been cleared for a $1.5 billion
1:21
budget to build a
1:23
sprawling Florida Everglades facility that's projected to hold
1:26
5,000 detainees,
1:28
SPEAKER_01: more than the country's largest federal prison.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: But the federal government claims it has not greenlit the budget yet,
1:35
SPEAKER_01: underscoring much deeper questions about where taxpayer money is going,
1:40
SPEAKER_01: who is receiving the funds,
1:42
SPEAKER_01: and who is ultimately footing the bill.
1:46
Matt will dive into what the results from Tuesday's primary
1:49
elections in Texas and
1:50
North Carolina tell us about how sentiment on ICE is playing in
1:53
the midterm
1:54
SPEAKER_00: elections.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: And finally,
1:56
a listener wrote in asking about the use of habeas petitions to
2:00
get out of ICE
2:01
SPEAKER_01: detention.
2:01
We'll dive in to how the process works and what it means for
2:05
the detainees.
2:07
So Matt,
2:08
the US and Israeli campaign in Iran has dominated headlines
2:12
this week.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: What can you tell us about what it means for ICE?
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
2:16
I want to start by acknowledging the immense human costs that
2:20
we have seen.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Like we mentioned at the top,
2:22
SPEAKER_01: over a thousand people dead,
2:23
SPEAKER_01: including,
2:25
SPEAKER_01: at time of this recording,
2:26
SPEAKER_01: six U.S.
2:26
service members,
2:27
dozens of innocent civilians,
2:29
both in Iran and in other countries.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: After a really brutal January for the Trump administration,
2:35
SPEAKER_01: this major voter backlash on ICE and the ever-worsening Epstein scandal,
2:40
Republicans are sort of relishing in the opportunity to talk
2:42
about anything else,
2:44
SPEAKER_01: even though,
2:44
SPEAKER_01: as we'll get into in a minute,
2:46
SPEAKER_01: It's not the most popular war that they've ever pursued.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: So on Monday,
2:50
Republicans did pressure Democrats to vote to fund the DHS in
2:54
the middle of this
2:55
SPEAKER_01: war.
2:56
And the idea is to put Democrats in this position where they
2:58
look weak or unpatriotic.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: And it's not working.
3:01
Republicans would need to flip seven Democrats in the Senate in
3:05
order to pass the bill.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: They have John Fetterman of Pennsylvania,
3:08
but most of the other likely candidates for flipping don't seem
3:12
to be taking the
3:12
SPEAKER_01: bait.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: There's John Ossoff of Georgia,
3:15
who's the only Democratic senator running for reelection in a
3:18
state that Trump won
3:19
SPEAKER_01: in 2024.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: He's staying firm.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: He's not going to fund ICE.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: And Senator Angus King of Maine,
3:25
SPEAKER_01: who's an independent that usually votes with Democrats,
3:27
SPEAKER_01: is also a hard no on reopening the DHS in these circumstances.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: What do the polls say right now?
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Where is everybody at in terms of how they feel about what's going on?
3:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
3:39
I found a really great poll from YouGov and The Economist that
3:43
went into the field
3:45
SPEAKER_01: right as the United States was unleashing its war on Iran.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: That kind of timing is really hard to coordinate.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: YouGov does this thing called high frequency polling,
3:53
SPEAKER_01: where essentially every week they're going to put out a survey.
3:56
And it just so happened that they asked a question about Iran
4:00
right as this war was starting.
4:02
And it shows that a plurality of Americans,
4:04
45%,
4:04
oppose the use of military force in Iran.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: But for the purposes of talking about this ICE funding,
4:10
SPEAKER_01: we need to look at Democrats and independents.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: And the message is super clear.
4:14
73% of Democrats and 50% of independents oppose the use of
4:18
military force in Iran
4:19
SPEAKER_01: to overturn the regime.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: And similarly,
4:23
SPEAKER_01: The numbers for supporting ICE are looking really terrible as well.
4:27
This same poll for the very first time showed that a majority
4:31
of Americans,
4:31
SPEAKER_01: 50%,
4:32
SPEAKER_01: so a slim majority,
4:34
SPEAKER_01: supported abolishing ICE.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: That includes 77% of Democrats and 52% of independents.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: So their base is providing really clear guidance to Congress.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: And I doubt that barring significant changes to the situation,
4:50
SPEAKER_01: Democrats are going to start singing another tune.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: So DHS Secretary Kristi Noem had an oversight hearing this week.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us what came up?
4:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
5:00
SPEAKER_01: Democrats universally took her to task,
5:02
but we had two important GOP senators who also came down hard
5:08
on Kristi Noem.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: The first and most prominent is Tom Tillis of North Carolina.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: Now, let's be really clear.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: Tom Tillis is not running for reelection,
5:16
which is why he seems to be in a position to attack DHS and by
5:22
implication of the
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Trump administration.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, he called on Nome to resign.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: He called her a disaster.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: He promised to stall business in the Senate,
5:29
SPEAKER_01: including Trump administration appointees,
5:32
until she answered his questions and addressed allegations that
5:35
she's stonewalling
5:36
SPEAKER_01: investigations.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: So really strong language from a conservative senator,
5:41
SPEAKER_01: but again,
5:41
SPEAKER_01: one whose political future is not really in question.
5:45
The other person who came out hard against Kristi Noem was John
5:49
Kennedy of Louisiana.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: He similarly is not running this year.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: His next election cycle is in 2028.
5:55
So he has a long time to let people forget about whatever went
5:59
on right now in 2026.
6:02
And he grilled her about her decision to call Renee Good and
6:06
Alex Preddy domestic terrorists.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: He was a little less aggressive than Tom Tillis.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: But I think that what I took away from this
6:14
is that gnome is on quite thin ice so yeah bad bad week on
6:18
capitol hill for the
6:20
republicans but even worse news maybe coming out of florida
6:25
kelly the state there
6:26
has been sued for withholding key documents revealing how much
6:31
the state is
6:31
spending to build these infamous detention facilities and the
6:34
everglades the the
6:36
so-called alligator alcatraz can you tell us what you what
6:39
you've uncovered and
6:40
SPEAKER_01: what's going on there
6:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: So the deeper you go into these hundreds of pages of documents that were
6:47
SPEAKER_00: relinquished by the state of Florida,
6:48
SPEAKER_00: the more that you see,
6:49
SPEAKER_00: really.
6:50
Alligator Alcatraz is burning 1.2 million taxpayer dollars per
6:55
day on construction
6:56
SPEAKER_00: and operation costs.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: So that is enough to power a major NFL stadium.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: That's enough to power a sprawling AI data center.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: It's enough to power and fund 23,500 school children annually.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: It could even power roughly 13 brand new school buildings annually.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: That's how much money they're burning per day.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: So Alligator Alcatraz started construction last July.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: And in the early weeks of construction,
7:21
they were burning as much as $3 million per day on the
7:24
construction and operation
7:25
SPEAKER_00: costs.
7:27
But the worst part about this project is that the state of
7:31
Florida asked the
7:32
SPEAKER_00: federal government for one and a half billion dollars,
7:34
SPEAKER_00: but they didn't wait for the budget approval.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: They just started building, building, building.
7:39
So there is no guarantee that the state of Florida will be
7:42
reimbursed by the federal government.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: So that one and a half billion dollars may fall on taxpayers in Florida.
7:50
for a facility that has already reportedly delayed payments to
7:54
contractors and staff already.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: There's a real tug of war right now in power.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: The state of Florida is maintaining that it has the money.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: The federal government says,
8:04
SPEAKER_00: one,
8:05
you have yet to explain what the one and a half billion dollars
8:08
is going to go
8:09
SPEAKER_00: toward.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: So publicly, we have no idea where the money is going.
8:13
Second of all,
8:14
the state of Florida refuses to conduct an environmental
8:18
assessment
8:19
This is particularly crucial because the Alligator Alcatraz
8:23
facility is built on
8:24
SPEAKER_00: the Florida Everglades.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: It is a nature preserve.
8:27
And the fact that they're building a sprawling facility that is
8:31
going to house more
8:32
SPEAKER_00: detainees than the largest American federal prison,
8:36
you're going to need an environmental audit to get a sense of
8:41
what the impact is
8:42
SPEAKER_00: going to be on the environment.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: So,
8:45
SPEAKER_01: okay,
8:46
SPEAKER_01: so I mean,
8:46
SPEAKER_01: $3 million a day in construction,
8:48
SPEAKER_01: $1 million a day in operation,
8:52
SPEAKER_01: what exactly is the money going to and how are they spending it?
8:57
There are a few clues as to where the money is going and if
9:01
there are some
9:02
SPEAKER_00: unethical motivations behind that money.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: So number one, vendors.
9:07
The facility has promised to pay about $73 million to 12
9:09
confirmed vendors.
9:13
that is anywhere from you know health contractors to porter
9:16
potties to a company
9:18
called granny's alliance holdings that specific contractor is a
9:22
food service
9:22
company there has already been reports of bug infested meals
9:26
low quality meals but
9:27
they received a 3.3 million dollar contract by alligator
9:31
alcatraz now the state is
9:33
claiming that these 12 vendors that are confirmed many more may
9:35
come down the pike
9:37
SPEAKER_00: that these are non-bid vendors,
9:39
but there's already a slew of investigative journalists and
9:42
news publications that
9:43
SPEAKER_00: are tracing the thread of these organizations.
9:46
Many of these vendors and the owners of these vendors are major
9:49
Republican donors
9:50
SPEAKER_00: to political committees for Florida Governor Ron DeSantis,
9:53
SPEAKER_00: to Trump and other GOP candidates.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: Are you saying essentially that this money,
9:57
that state funds are being used to support GOP political
10:02
candidates in the end?
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
10:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
10:05
SPEAKER_00: when they're claiming it's non-bid,
10:06
SPEAKER_00: there's actually a bit of a contingency to that.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: And there's a second thing too,
10:09
SPEAKER_00: is that,
10:10
SPEAKER_00: and this is something that the lawsuit has really revealed.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: So this environmental nonprofit organization,
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Friends of the Everglades,
10:17
is the one that sued the state of Florida for these publicly
10:21
available documents.
10:22
And what they are claiming and what they have revealed from
10:25
these documents is that
10:26
SPEAKER_00: there is a mysteriously disproportionate number of salaries and overtime
10:29
SPEAKER_00: projections in this budget.
10:31
so correctional officers court marshals medical contractors
10:34
caseworkers judges
10:36
because there's going to be a system of courts within alligator
10:39
alcatraz they're
10:40
alleging they are tallying up into six-figure salaries
10:43
six-figure overtime pay and
10:45
this is disproportionate to the local area and the local local
10:48
labor markets
10:49
friends of the everglades is basically describing these
10:52
projections as exorbitant
10:54
SPEAKER_00: overtime projections that will fall on taxpayer money
10:58
SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned previously,
10:59
SPEAKER_00: the state of Florida is building,
11:01
SPEAKER_00: building,
11:01
building without the guarantee of the federal government
11:04
reimbursing them for what
11:06
SPEAKER_00: they have already constructed and paid.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: Um,
11:09
all of the funds at the state level that have already allowed
11:12
for the building of
11:13
this facility is coming from an entity called the Florida
11:16
division of emergency
11:17
SPEAKER_00: management.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: This budget is meant to protect Floridians in times of natural disaster,
11:23
but instead the budget is going toward building this mass
11:26
detention facility.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: So if we're looking at the future of this particular story,
11:32
investigative journalists moving forward are going to need to
11:35
do something that I'm
11:36
SPEAKER_00: sure they deeply relish and is deeply needed right now.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: They're going to need to follow the money.
11:42
in terms of what's next for the legal battle a few things in a
11:45
few days on monday
11:46
the florida state legislature will debate reopening the same
11:49
emergency fund that i
11:50
just mentioned that had initially allowed for the construction
11:53
of alligator
11:54
alcatraz to occur it was closed for some time because of
11:57
florida's refusal to do
11:59
the environmental review and explain where the money is going
12:02
so come monday we're
12:03
SPEAKER_00: going to have brand new developments and updates on this story
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Wow,
12:07
SPEAKER_01: you mentioned,
12:08
I think two weeks ago that we're coming into hurricane season
12:12
pretty soon here.
12:14
And if I were a Florida taxpayer and worried that a hurricane
12:18
might hit my town,
12:20
I'd be pretty mad that we were spending money that was meant
12:23
for that kind of
12:24
emergency relief on alligator Alcatraz at the same time that
12:29
FEMA at the federal
12:30
SPEAKER_01: level is currently without funding.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: That's a scary situation.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: It is, for lack of a better phrase, a perfect storm.
12:38
We'll be right back in just a minute to talk about primary
12:41
elections on Tuesday,
12:43
SPEAKER_01: what we learned from them,
12:44
and to address a listener question about the use of habeas
12:47
corpus petitions to get
12:49
SPEAKER_01: detainees out of ICE detention.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: Be right back.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: Hi, folks.
12:55
This episode marks our one month since Matt and I started This
12:58
Week on ICE,
12:59
and we are ever so grateful that so many of you have come along
13:03
with us for the
13:03
SPEAKER_00: ride.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: Your donations on Substack,
13:06
SPEAKER_00: your ratings and comments on Spotify and Apple,
13:08
and your questions sent to our email at thisweekonice at
13:11
gmail.com have fueled us
13:13
SPEAKER_00: to keep producing this show on a topic so close to our hearts.
13:17
We have a lot more great interviews and insightful analysis
13:20
coming down the pike for you.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: And in the meantime,
13:22
it would mean the world to us if you would share this episode
13:24
with a friend.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: Shooting them a link to Spotify,
13:27
SPEAKER_00: Apple Podcasts,
13:28
and our Substack will do so much for us to grow in these early
13:31
stages and keep the
13:32
SPEAKER_00: lights on around here.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: All right, back to the show.
13:35
Welcome back.
13:42
We saw the first primary elections of the 2026 season on
13:45
Tuesday with major races
13:46
SPEAKER_00: in Texas and North Carolina.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: November is still a long way off,
13:51
but these races have given us an early impression of how voters
13:54
are leaning amid
13:55
SPEAKER_00: the ice crackdown,
13:56
SPEAKER_00: Epstein scandal,
13:57
SPEAKER_00: and of course,
13:58
SPEAKER_00: the US attacks on Iran.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: Matt, what's the top headline?
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so overall, a pretty good night for Democrats.
14:05
Like you said,
14:05
it's primary races,
14:06
so the Democrats were only going up against other Democrats.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: But let's start in Texas.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: We'll go over to North Carolina next.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: And the big races in Texas were for the Senate primaries.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: We saw state rep James Tallarico defeat U.S.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: rep
14:20
jasmine crockett for the democratic nomination and this this
14:24
was a race everybody
14:25
had their eye on not necessarily for policy reasons like from a
14:29
policy perspective
14:31
they're quite similar the candidates are friendly to each other
14:33
i i caught a bit of
14:35
the debate that they had leading up to this and they really
14:37
weren't attacking each
14:38
other they were attacking the trump administration and a little
14:40
bit they were
14:41
SPEAKER_01: attacking the republicans who they'll they'll run against in in november
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Both of them have advocated for impeaching Kristi Noem,
14:48
SPEAKER_01: the Secretary of Homeland Security,
14:50
SPEAKER_01: who is in charge of ICE.
14:52
They've advocated holding individual ICE agents responsible for
14:56
violating the law.
14:57
But Tallarico probably edged a little bit closer to saying that
15:02
ICE should be defunded.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: He said that the money given to ICE in that big,
15:06
SPEAKER_01: beautiful bill that we've discussed ad nauseum should be taken back and,
15:10
SPEAKER_01: quote,
15:10
SPEAKER_01: put into our communities where it belongs.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: So he didn't come out and say, like, abolish ICE.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: But that's kind of the whole point.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: Like if it's not about policy, then it's about style.
15:19
And Crockett,
15:19
everybody who's been on Capitol Hill knows that she's fiery.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: She does not take any crap.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: And if you've seen her in a hearing,
15:28
she's great at clapping back against people from the Trump
15:30
administration who tried
15:32
SPEAKER_01: to attack her.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: She's very pugilistic style, very fiery.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: And Tallarico in the end, he comes across as much more moderate.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: He comes across as much more
15:42
SPEAKER_01: sort of sedate.
15:43
One of the things that I've been talking about on this podcast
15:46
when it comes to the
15:47
primaries is sort of finding the right candidates for the right
15:50
jurisdiction,
15:51
SPEAKER_01: right?
15:51
SPEAKER_01: Zoram Mandani can win in New York City.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: He's not going to win in Texas, right?
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Even in the People's Republic of Austin, he's not going to win.
15:58
And so finding like these more moderate guys who kind of can
16:01
appeal to that,
16:02
SPEAKER_01: to the state that they know and the base that they know,
16:05
SPEAKER_01: I think will be really crucial.
16:06
And on the Republican side,
16:08
we had John Cornyn as the current sitting senator.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Ken Paxton is the Texas attorney general.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: They're going to a runoff.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: So it was within a few percentage points.
16:16
They're both super anti-migrant,
16:19
both super pro-ice,
16:20
very,
16:21
very pro-Trump.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: But Paxton is playing maybe a little closer to the MAGA brand.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: Cornyn has a
16:26
SPEAKER_01: occasionally differed with Trump.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: But I think with Trump, you got to be 110% for Trump.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: You can't be 99% towards Trump.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I gotcha.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: So what do Democrats want to see in the Texas race in November?
16:40
SPEAKER_01: Democrats kind of ideally want is Tallarico to go up against Paxton,
16:45
SPEAKER_01: so this image of moderation against an image of more extremism.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: They can portray him as more reasonable, more moderate.
16:51
Paxton has an extremist ideologue who's only loyal to Trump and
16:55
the MAGA brand.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: And if Democrats can pull this off and win a Texas Senate seat,
17:01
SPEAKER_01: which they have not done in a very long time,
17:03
then their chances of taking control of the Senate in November
17:06
go way up.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: It's a long shot to begin with,
17:09
SPEAKER_01: but if they can do it in Texas,
17:11
SPEAKER_01: they're looking really,
17:12
SPEAKER_01: really good.
17:12
Now,
17:13
in the next couple of days,
17:14
it's likely that Trump will endorse one of the candidates.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: What I've been hearing around D.C.
17:19
is that he's leaning towards Coronine because Coronine has more
17:22
name recognition
17:24
SPEAKER_01: and he doesn't want to give the Democrats their ideal situation.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: All right.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: So we have a handle on what we saw in Texas.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: What did we see in North Carolina?
17:32
SPEAKER_01: North Carolina, the results were much less neck and neck.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: We saw former Governor Roy Cooper,
17:37
SPEAKER_01: a Democrat in North Carolina,
17:39
SPEAKER_01: win that primary by about 90 percentage points.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: He was for sure going to be the candidate the whole way along.
17:46
He's worked very hard to portray himself as kind of independent
17:49
from the mainstream
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Democratic Party establishment.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Smart move in North Carolina.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: He said he's willing to work with Trump as well as stand up to him.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: He's focused a lot on affordability,
18:01
these kind of kitchen table issues that have helped a lot of
18:03
Democratic candidates
18:04
SPEAKER_01: this election cycle.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: And when it comes to ICE specifically, he did veto a bill back in 2019.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: So this is way before this whole controversy started.
18:14
He did veto a bill that would have forced local law enforcement
18:18
to cooperate with ICE.
18:21
he's kind of in this advantageous position because he's not in
18:24
office right now.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: So he can look at his record and kind of have it both ways.
18:29
And Democrats think that he's a strong candidate who I believe
18:34
has not lost a
18:34
SPEAKER_01: single election in 40 years.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Every time he runs, he wins.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: He's got statewide name recognition.
18:40
And his opponent on the Republican side,
18:42
Michael Watley,
18:43
who also won by a large margin.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: He has a very close relationship with Trump.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: Very, very happy to have his endorsement.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: And yet,
18:51
SPEAKER_01: because of the strength of the Democratic candidate,
18:54
SPEAKER_01: this race could be pretty competitive.
18:57
Independents are the largest voting bloc in North Carolina,
19:00
about 39 percent of the electorate.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Like I said,
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Cooper has a strong reputation,
19:04
SPEAKER_01: hasn't lost an election in a long time,
19:06
portraying himself as this moderate in a state that wants that
19:10
kind of moderation.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: And so it's going to be a very competitive election.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: We've got a long way to go until November, but keep your eye on there.
19:18
And then just one more story that I wanted to look at sort of
19:21
down ballot in North Carolina.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: And this is way down ballot.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about a state representative race.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: This is a representative named Carla Cunningham, seven term Democrat.
19:32
But she lost her primary after she broke with the Democratic
19:36
Party to support a
19:38
bill that would increase cooperation between local law
19:42
enforcement and ICE.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: It's sort of similar to the one that I mentioned Roy Cooper vetoing.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: She decided to override current Democratic Governor Josh Stein's veto.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Guess what the result is?
19:53
SPEAKER_01: She got crushed.
19:54
She only won 22% of the vote in a district where she has been
19:58
the representative
19:59
SPEAKER_01: for seven terms.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: So I think that says quite a lot about the mood of voters there.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: Wow, absolutely.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for that, Matt.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Now, finally, we have a question from listener David, friend of the show.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Hi, David.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: About the use of habeas petitions to secure release from ICE detention.
20:17
We talked about this a bit last week with Robin Nice,
20:19
but it deserves a bit more exploration.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: So let's first talk about what even is a habeas corpus petition.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: So habeas corpus is a Latin term.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: It translates to produce the body.
20:31
And it's a really ancient concept in US law and British law
20:35
that US law is based on
20:37
that requires the government to present the reasons it has
20:40
detained someone in
20:41
front of a judge who can then decide whether that detention is
20:44
legal and whether
20:46
SPEAKER_01: the person might be released or released on bond.
20:48
So it's sort of one of the basic rights that you and I and
20:51
every American,
20:52
SPEAKER_01: in fact,
20:52
SPEAKER_01: every person who is in the United States,
20:55
SPEAKER_01: regardless if they're American or not,
20:56
SPEAKER_01: regardless if they reside here or not,
20:58
SPEAKER_01: if you are detained,
21:00
SPEAKER_01: you have the right to ask a court,
21:01
SPEAKER_01: why am I being detained,
21:02
SPEAKER_01: and challenge your detention.
21:04
so when it comes to ice detentions this is one of the most
21:08
successful tactics that
21:11
lawyers have used to help their clients get out of detention it
21:16
is i mean the
21:17
numbers are just staggering on average courts nationwide are
21:22
receiving more than
21:23
SPEAKER_01: 200 habeas petitions filed by immigrants in 2025 every single day
21:29
And the sum of all these immigration-related habeas petitions
21:33
in 2025 is greater
21:36
than the sum of all immigration-related habeas petitions
21:39
between 2009 and 2024,
21:41
SPEAKER_01: according to a study by ProPublica.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: So it's just shot through the roof.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
21:45
we're talking about 8,000 habeas petitions related to
21:48
immigration compared to,
21:49
SPEAKER_01: like,
21:50
SPEAKER_01: you know,
21:50
SPEAKER_01: maybe 100 in previous years.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: Why is this so successful?
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Well, judges are overwhelmingly granting these petitions.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: 97% were successful in federal courts in 2025.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean that a detainee gets released right away.
22:06
And David actually asked about a story he had heard of someone
22:08
who was in detention
22:09
SPEAKER_01: for more than 30 days after getting this habeas petition.
22:14
Usually,
22:14
a judge will order a bond hearing in front of an immigration
22:18
judge.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: You then remain in custody until that bond hearing can be held.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: So that could be several weeks.
22:24
and it's really really tough like living in these in these
22:27
detention facilities
22:27
during that time is horrible once you have your bond hearing if
22:32
the judge decides
22:33
that you should be released on bond you then have to find the
22:36
money to post that
22:37
bond which could be up to like 25 000 that's you know who has
22:41
25 000 laying around
22:42
and the judge also might not find that you're eligible to be
22:45
released on bond so so
22:47
SPEAKER_01: even though the habeas petition is successful
22:50
SPEAKER_01: it will not necessarily automatically lead to a detainee getting out.
22:56
Yeah,
22:57
even with the habeas petition,
22:58
is ICE resisting the habeas process at this time?
23:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
23:03
there's a lot of little things they can do to sort of force
23:06
lawyers to work
23:07
SPEAKER_01: overtime to get these these habeas petitions in front of judges.
23:10
The first one Robin Nice talked to us a little bit last week is
23:13
simply transferring
23:14
SPEAKER_01: the detainee to a different jurisdiction.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: So
23:18
SPEAKER_01: If one of your clients is,
23:20
SPEAKER_01: say,
23:21
detained in Massachusetts and you're gonna go file a habeas
23:24
petition in front of a
23:25
SPEAKER_01: Massachusetts court,
23:27
SPEAKER_01: if ICE gets wind of that,
23:28
SPEAKER_01: they're gonna transfer them to Louisiana or New Mexico or Arizona.
23:32
And then you have to go to Louisiana or Mexico or Arizona and
23:34
file the petition there.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: And ICE isn't gonna tell you
23:37
SPEAKER_01: that they've transferred your client, right?
23:40
SPEAKER_01: So you end up in the situation where you have to time everything out.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: The timing has to work perfectly in order to get in front of the judge.
23:48
What ICE is really hoping for is that conditions in detention
23:51
are so horrible that
23:53
SPEAKER_01: detainees will just give up and choose to self-deport.
23:56
And once all of this process has been done and let's say that a
24:00
habeas petition is
24:01
held and a bond hearing is held and a judge orders someone
24:05
released on bond,
24:07
ICE has also just been refusing to comply with those release
24:10
orders for days or
24:11
SPEAKER_01: weeks at a time.
24:13
And this entire process is actually in serious jeopardy due to
24:18
a ruling in the
24:19
SPEAKER_01: Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: The Fifth Circuit,
24:21
SPEAKER_01: for those of you who don't know,
24:22
SPEAKER_01: is usually the most conservative circuit court.
24:24
And they upheld what the federal government is calling
24:28
mandatory detention,
24:29
which essentially means that if they detain a non-citizen for
24:33
an immigration
24:33
SPEAKER_01: related offense,
24:34
They get to hold that person in custody for as long as they
24:37
want without any
24:38
SPEAKER_01: opportunity to be released on bond,
24:40
SPEAKER_01: without any opportunity to file this kind of habeas petition,
24:43
SPEAKER_01: which is,
24:43
SPEAKER_01: again,
24:44
SPEAKER_01: like a fundament of individual liberty in Anglo-American law.
24:50
And so this is likely to end up in the Supreme Court because
24:53
other circuits are
24:54
SPEAKER_01: certainly not going to agree with the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: And we'll have to watch what happens there.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: And thank you, David, for asking that question.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, David, for the question.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: And thank you, Matt, for the answer.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: That's about all the time we have for this edition.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening in.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Please do write in at thisweekonice at gmail.com.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: We're always happy to look into your questions for you.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Stay safe, look after your neighbors, and we'll see you next time.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: See you next time.