Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Love and Marriage | a conversation with Scott Kedersha

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Love and Marriage | a conversation with Scott Kedersha · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hi friends, and welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: It means so much to have you choose to take our conversation along with you today.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide perspective, purpose, and plans for your best life.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Before I introduce this week's guest, I wanted to remind all you moms out there, summer is just around the corner.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like as in next week in my little world, it starts.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe that.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, did you happen to catch my interview about creating a Simply Summer on Sarah Bragg's podcast?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the Surviving Sarah podcast.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if you didn't catch it, you might want to pop on over to her show to get the lowdown and inspiration you need for this coming summer.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: But before you panic about the no-schedule, long days, sibling fighting, boredom, constant eating, and the messy house, I am here to help you have the summer you have always wanted with your kids.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: I am not exaggerating when I say a simply summer is completely possible for you.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: First, you can download my 50 free boredombuster ideas, which are perfect for those with kids 12 and under, or you can get my Simply Summer challenge, which gives you a week view of how to do a super summer challenge.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, my best-selling Simply Summer course has gotten a makeover.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have even more colorful resources, which will take you step by step to create the schedule you desire, help foster sibling unity, it eliminates boredom, and keeps a cleaner home, all while giving you more time to get things done.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: It is possible.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: You can have your best summer this year.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I put all the details in the show notes.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Today, I'm honored to have Scott Kadersha join us this week to share his wisdom and insight on marriage.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Scott is the director of marriage ministry at Watermark Community Church, where there is a thriving community which desires life-giving relationships.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: His new book, Ready or Not, as in KNOT, is jam-packed with truth about love, sex, and marriage.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think our conversation gives some great highlights of his book.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, he's gonna share three conversations every couple needs to be having.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, we're talking about the Enneagram and how it can help your marriage and why we need to do life in community.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait for you to listen in.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was really good.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Also, if you happen to know of an engaged or newly married couple, I think they'd really appreciate listening in.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Just use the share button to send them a text link to this podcast.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I am I'm guessing you your years of ministry with marriages has begged the question why didn't these people know to ask these questions and figure this out before you're married?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's so true.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Every day it's in that.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I work with kind of both sides, the premarried and the newly married.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I you're newly married and then also the crisis, and I kind of get like especially the crisis couples going, yeah, you know, you uh just the things that they say we wish we would have talked about it.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then how do you get the attention of a premarr who's so in love and they can't imagine any problems and going there are so many people who wish they were back where you are and could do this over again.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, so it is fine.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I've got a lead a great team here who works, you know, we work with premarried, newly married, enrichment, crisis, kind of everything all over the spectrum.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: You're in Dallas, right?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm actually in Kansas City, and I'm I was curious too because I am pretty sure.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we have um I'm part of Radiant Church in Kansas City, and one of our uh like mature couples, for lack of a better term, who are about 10, 15 years ahead of my husband and I, they lead the uh the marriage ministry, and they use a curriculum, and I am not remembering the name, but I'm pretty sure it's from your church.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Is it re-engage?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they're from us huge advocates of re-engage, and so we have a lot of young families like in the first five years of marriage, you know, having babies, and so they they've kind of focused on that, but we're excited when they can expand it and go to the you know, 15 plus and and all of that.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because you guys, I mean you you guys have some fantastic material, they rant and rave about it all the time.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: They're obviously using it, they've used it for a couple years, they've gone to the training because you guys do a lot of that too, as well, equipping ministers and team leaders.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we do.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: We do a training like two or three times a year where other churches come in, and it's been it's been awesome.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, like when when I started, and I there's a guy I work with named John who really start kind of started everything, and you know, we worked on it together, but he's especially responsible for re-engage.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: When when he started, there were so few churches doing really doing anything to help marriages, and now there's we got 300 churches using our re-engage curriculum.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's fantastic.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, 75 or 80 using our premarried curriculum, 35 or 40 doing the newly married.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so they come to us and we talk through here's how you use our stuff, here's why we do it.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then largely it's not like, hey, you got to use our material, but we want churches to go home, figure out what works best for you.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Here's some thoughts to help you make some decisions.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, which which has just been super fun to watch with it that the churches are responding.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we always say like every church has a kids' ministry and student ministry, which is great.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, but why would you not focus on the most important human relationship?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: And churches are finally starting to wake up to it a little bit and yeah, realize, you know, we can help kids, but the best way to grow a healthy kid is by letting them watch a mom and dad who love Jesus, not just pouring into them for an hour a week at church or small group.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's been it's been awesome to watch that just kind of grow over the years.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's so great.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, a ton of good fruit.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: We we are under that kind of department with them because we lead a financial peace class because with the idea, we end up having, you know, young single people as well involved in it, but knowing that finances play a huge role in marriage.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like you said, there's so many things that people tried to tell us before we got married that were you know, we just we weren't really listening and we were naive and we just, you know, didn't really believe that we would have issues.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: That I go yeah, exactly.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: That um I'm just so grateful that we have this opportunity to sit with people and tell them our story and you know how the finance piece impacted our marriage and how marriage can also impact your finances and how those are all intertwined.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's um yeah, it's definitely bearing a ton of good fruit.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And how did you how did you approach that idea as you sit and counsel a lot of young people in love, ready to get married?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: How did you approach and frame your book in a way that you felt like, okay, maybe they will they will listen and they'll maybe do a couple of things that would really help them prevent a lot of problems in the future?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so even even with like the way that culture's kind of moving away from love couples are avoiding marriage, moving in together, staying away from it and you know, completely.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right, uh there's still, I think, this deep desire to do marriage well.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: Most millennials still want to get married.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, 85% will, and most of those want, you know, 90% probably want to get married.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: And they and they see the mess around them.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like when I first started 12, 13 years ago, we almost had to convince couples that marriage is difficult.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Now with young couples, we they know marriage is difficult, and so for that reason, they want counsel, they want help, they want you know somebody who's experienced to speak into their relationship.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then one thing I really tried to do with the book is just be like crazy authentic and real.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they especially again, millennials just kind of crave that authenticity.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's for sure.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so the book has a real genuine tone to it, and that's been you know, as I I've heard people sharing it with their friends, that's kind of one of the things that stuck out is unashamedly biblical, it's practical, and then it's really authentic.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's a voice I kind of that's what I any anytime I write or teach, that's what I'm looking for.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what I tried to capture in the book as well.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's interesting that you relate it to, and uh this speaks of the generation because I'm obviously of the generation, I'm just at the end there of generation X, and there it was me, we need to send some convincing that marriage was gonna be really hard.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it just was, you know, uh Demon and Love kind of thing, I think about, but now they know, and maybe it's watching their parents struggle through marriage and the honesty of that and the real challenge and how it impacted them and not wanting to repeat history negatively, um, that they're that they're craving that.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: So what kind of what kind of questions are they asking?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that they're wanting to know?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I think in that place of knowing, hey, they need help, what I mean, what are they thinking might solve or help them as they prepare for marriage or even think about getting married?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, the biggest one honestly is like, why should we get married anyway?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: So if uh most couples end up divorced or unhappy, then why should we even consider it?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, why bother?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: If we can, especially if you're with, you know, if you're connecting with a couple who's not strong spiritually, if we can just live together and be sexually active, you know, or you're talking to non-believers, you know, why would we even want to get married in the first place when we can have everything, seemingly have everything we want without making the commitment?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's you know, one one of the things, one of the messages we just try to continually, um, kind of the drama I always beat is the church is traditionally the last, you know, for however long we've done a good job of telling you the challenges of marriage, and marriage is really hard, and marriage is hard, marriage is hard, marriage is hard over and over and over again.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And we we've had to change the message, some and say, yes, marriage is difficult, but let me tell you why it's amazing, why it's God's best for you as a cop.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Not everyone should get married, but if you desire it and you're in a healthy relationship, here's why you want to get married and not just stay in a you know dating relationship.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: Here's why um, here's how you can grow through marriage, you know, and a lot of that is testimony of, you know, let me tell you how God has grown me and my my love for the Lord through marriage.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just it's not good for us to be alone, you know, really believing what you know what Genesis says, and it's not good for us to be alone in life.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so we need community, we need others, and then what a gift marriage is to be able to have a spouse to help grow us and encourage us and help us become more like Jesus.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really good.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I think this is the job of the church now, it to talk about sex, to talk about marriage in a way that is honest and true, but encouraging, because we've painted this picture un unknowingly and and very innocently and trying to have honest conversation, but we've painted um such a tainted view or you know, religious view of it and and in a and we've kind of painted in a way where we've painted ourselves back into a corner where we no longer have anything good to say, or we're just sound bites are being taken, and that's what's being broadcast and heard instead of the real conversation and the truth of it.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're speaking my language right now.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's it's we gotta take it back as the church and have these healthy, yeah, safe places.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now for you, we've talked about this ahead of time because we love the Aneagram here at Simple Hearted.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I really truly believe as I've studied the Aneagram and I I dove into it for a specific reason and I've come out on the other side, you know, with so much different understanding, right?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of it for me is I suddenly am I realizing that some people would say it's our path to growth.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I I would say yes, but don't stop there.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's our path to growth for a wholehearted life in Christ.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the whole idea.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of a checklist of this is what wholeheartedness looks like, and we can look in the word of God and we can see examples of wholeheartedness and what Christ caused God caused holy holy and what Christ lived and how he lived wholeheartedly.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: But for us here on earth as humans, as we better understand how we are created and our uniqueness and how you know God speaks to us and how our the message our heart longs to hear can be satisfied, it moves us to wholeness, which when we get this understanding and we become wholehearted, it naturally is going to affect every single relationship in our life.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, in light of this, as we tie in Aneagram and marriage, what have you seen as you've worked with it, as you've had an understanding of the anneagram and how it's impacted your marriage and how you see impact others?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I'd say just starting to scratch the surface and really understand it and grasp it.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so where, you know, we talked about it with my team, the team I lead uh six months ago, so helpful to understand how each of us are you know wired and how that affects the way that we, you know, one guy, one guy I work very closely with, he is a one to the screen.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's perfectionist.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so that helps me lead him, it helps me work with him, helps me understand him.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: It also helps me challenge him.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's okay.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, this is we we need to chill out here.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Let's make sure that we're not, you know, we don't we don't need to spend hours and hours picking the color of the you know, of the um the ink in the pen or you know, people over performance, right?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: And he loves people, but let's yeah, let's make sure we're focusing in the right place.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other one, the other one on the team who's a you know, um uh just people pleaser, you know, to the max.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so understanding them.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so all that as we talk through it in the team, but this has huge implications for marriage.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then also within community.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we're in a you know, a community group with four other couples, understanding how they're wired, how they make decisions, you know.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: But obviously, as you said just a minute ago, that the one that affects us the most day to day is going to be our marriage.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's the our closest neighbor, the person we spend the most time with, and the things that like that tend to drive me crazy about my wife, if I have a greater understanding of the way she's wired.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's not personal, right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: She's not trying to make me mad.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, she's being Christian, you know, and that's that's why I married her in the first place, is for some of those things.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, right?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they were like really attractive at one point, then they become annoying.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, and just remembering she's not trying to be frustrating.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's just the way that she's kind of wired and made, and so it helps me understand her better.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think it does help us celebrate the differences instead of tolerate them because it's you it's this um interpreter suddenly for our spouse of understanding what language and perspective they have, because we all naturally are inclined to like, I'm looking at the world this way.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't everyone see the world this way?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And instead, the Enneagram kind of prints has an imprint where we can read and well, not all of it is a exactly case-by-case, you know, uh verbatim for everybody, um, but it does give us a general idea of oh, this is this is why they feel the way they feel or thinking the way they think or reacting the way they were acting.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what are what are you?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I am a um Enneagram three, and my husband is a nine.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, we have all sorts of fun navigating those things.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think in particular, he as the peacemaker, um, you know, will kind of give the lens of the perspective for everybody.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the kind of the gift of the Annie Graham Nine is that they they have this innate ability to look through the lens of everyone.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but much to my frustration when I'm at odds and I want him to take my side.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, hey, wait a minute.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Don't tell me their point of view.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me I'm right.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me I'm right.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's I got some of that.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's a three for sure.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think some of the, you know, for you guys, and I'm trying to remember, I think you said your wife is a nine wing one and you're a two wing one.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: How two wing two wing three.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, two wing three.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you don't even how is that dynamic been?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I have to imagine there's some similarities.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: There are.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so one, we we get along well because we're both kind of in that relational sphere of you know, she's gonna be one who is um, you know, who uh want always wants to help, always wants to keep the peace.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then I want to please as a pleaser, then I want to make her happy and make our kids happy and yeah, our friends happy.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so that they work together well.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think where it it uh where it becomes frustrating, it takes for her forever to make decisions.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, right.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and I'm probably and then with a two, it's a little bit of the same way for me.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to make a decision that's going to offend someone or leave somebody out.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, both includers, and there's a little bit of that in both of our personality and wiring.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's sometimes it's hard to make a decision.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: But we're both really chill when I think about like, hey, marriage has been really easy.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh it's largely because um yeah, yeah, because I want to I want to put her needs first, I want to please, she wants to put my needs first, and as a peacemaker, that's awesome.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so the things that might really frustrate a lot of other couples just don't they kind of tend to roll off her back.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um she is very she's got some some one.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've got some one as well.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm kind of a I think I'm you know a two wing three slash wing one.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: I've got some of salt and pepper, right?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like we some of us use a lot of salt, some of us a lot of pepper, some a lot of both, some of neither.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's kind of how you see the wings for sure.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's good.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we have some of both of those, and so it it can be frustrating at times when we both want things done a certain way, but for the most part, it's worked, you know, it's helped us.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think it makes our lives easier, especially with chaos with four kids.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, four boys, right?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, four boys.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any idea what their anneogram types are?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Are they old enough that you've kind of figured some of that out with them?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good question.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: So uh so one of so they're twin, the oldest are twins, 14.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: One is very diligent, disciplined, get everything done.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um he wants to be the best at everything.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: He's a leader.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: So he I think there's probably some eight there, if I had to guess.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, what do you think?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you I think you know better than I do.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: Does it sound eight-ish?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: It could.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the best way I have determined to type kids is to more or less narrow it down with the stances.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And have you heard of the stances?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like it's a triad.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: So there's the typical triads, the instinctive triad, where you know, gut, heart, head.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this one breaks it down into more of the outward actions, which is rare for the Anneagram to talk about outward, but um, it it breaks it down into assertive, compliant, or inward.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when you look at your kids in conflict in particular, do they tend to get more assertive?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do they become more compliant, groupthink, and or do they go more inward?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: What do they retreat and you know get the resolution from within instead of out with other people?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of how I've narrowed mine down a little bit.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, mine are all assertive.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: They are.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's kind of helpful.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: So your son, it sounds like, could fit as a seven, an eight, or a three in the assertive.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like that twin in particular is a little bit more.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: He tends to actually actually, if it's he's involved, if he's involved, he'll either withdraw and just not want to deal with it.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Or he'll push back on everything.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And not yeah, not being disrespectful, but just like if he if he he sees something he disagrees with, he calls it out and not afraid.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Almost in a way like, hey, you know I'm your dad, you shouldn't talk to me that way.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: And he's not not being disrespectful, but that's all he knows is like to just call it like it is.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, call it like it is, yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I don't know.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Is that assertive or I would say that's assertive.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and I think assertiveness can go one way or another.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Depends how much um authority they have, as kids in particular.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And like with their own siblings, some of that becomes truer.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas with parents, they know because of boundaries and you know limitations of their you know being a child in the family in this situation, they might withdraw where you know they would completely.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I have um yeah, I have an eight in in particular.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but my seven tends to do that too.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have a problem, they're learning the respectful piece of it, but they they are not afraid to call me out if or my husband thinking.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: How old are your kids?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: They are 12, 11, and 8.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: So they're yeah, just a little bit younger on that cusp of.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know growing into like their freedom and wanting to yeah wanting to do things their way completely yeah it's good I'm writing myself a note I need to I need to deal with my kids and um go through the book with them I think they'd be one of them would be fascinated yeah and then his his twin brother is compliant to the Mac so chill relational loves everyone uh doesn't get in conflict he's everybody's friend so there's probably uh yeah probably a nine or two there I think in him uh yeah the compliant is um the ones that fit in there are the one the two and the six okay yeah oh maybe some six like loyalist right yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah and then the in-word are the the four the five and the nine I had to take that off the top of my head yeah the four the four the five and the nine and so even though the nine I would say um can be a group think as well similar to the six they tend to retreat more though in order um my husband's the perfect scenario where I get more assertive he goes more inward and that tends to create the tension I want resolution he's fine to find it within himself and so I've learned to let sleeping dogs lie and we revisit in in the morning instead of trying to make it happen at 10 o'clock at night you know let's get this resolution yes those were those were the early years and finally finally I learned a few things sure oh yeah yeah it's good you may have figured out by now that we love to talk about the Enneagram around here and that's because I believe it's one of the best ways to help you understand your creative purpose.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: The insights of the Enneagram give a clear cut path to your best wholehearted life.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're new to the Enneagram, I have several simple ways to become more knowledgeable and closer to better understanding your type.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: First, I created an Enneagram quick start guide and an Enneagram summary of all nine types which gives you a rundown of my favorite resources and the step-by-step discovery process.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's my free gift to you and easy to download.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now if you decide you're interested in learning more about your dominant type or perhaps you'd like to introduce this helpful resource to your family or business, I am a certified Anneogram coach and I have a few limited spaces for one-on-one coaching, group teaching or my five session special combining the insight of the Aneogram and the truth of the gospel, together we can discover your type and the best path of growth for wholehearted living let's move past the messy middle get free from the shame-based ending and reboot your story by better understanding your season to uncover the fruit of your best life not everyone is right for this type of coaching but if you would like to find out if you'd be a good fit you can get a free 30-minute consult.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Just get your name on the wait list and I'll be in touch.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: The links are in the show notes and you can find out more at simply wholehearted.com So why do you think the church has really done a good job of growing the pre-marriage counseling but unlike you guys where you're really trying to do this but the aftermarriage piece hasn't been well tended to yeah that that's so we found like couples would come to the church three seasons is what I've seen.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: So one is when they're in crisis and they want help they're either going to go to a church or do a counselor.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting true yeah uh another time is when they have their first kid and they kind of want to oh yeah you know yeah they want to raise their kid in the church.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah we haven't been in the church in years but we want to start now and then that you know the the first one third one on the list but first is on the premarried side of hey we want help we know that um you know our parents told us to do it some of our friends did it and so those are those are seasons when they tend to come to the church to get help.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then the problem is is that like a lot of churches they might do something to help on the premarried side but there's no way that there's no structure in place ministry opportunity they never make it a compelling desire for them to stick around after they get married.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so we watched that early on when we started so our church is 19 years old almost 20 and we'd get couples come to us on the premarried side we'd help them and then we'd watch them kind of go back to the world or back to their old church or you know just not not get plugged into a church anymore.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so we thought well what can we do to you know to to let them know that the church is the body of Christ is around for them for so much more than just you know seriously dating or engage seasons of life but what would it look like for you to live your entire life as part of the body of Christ and and churches don't they just don't see a need for it.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: They don't put anything in place.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: So we started a a ministry years ago and it's really just a small group for newlyweds that we've done we've done hundreds of them over the years.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh that's so great.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know thousands of couples have been through them where we you know essentially say we want to help you build your marriage on the right foundation from the beginning.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: We want to help you find friends who are in the same season of life.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: We want to give you a mentor couple to help you grow so that you are uh building your foundation in the right way we want to equip you and challenge you in the ways that couples typically struggle so we've learned if if a couple is going to struggle it's either going to be in money, sex, communication, uh commitment to one another and then and they're just you know they're they're isolated and don't have friends.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: And they might have friends but they don't have real friends like friends who know them and care for them.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so we said let's just build them up from the beginning from the you know the moment they say I do and help their build their lives in the same place in the in the right way and be like minded in the way that they grow their marriage.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know it reminds me like we um uh the story the three pigs oh yeah right where it's easier and quicker to build my house with straw or twigs but if you want to build a good home or you know you got to build it on the right foundation you got to be working out the same blueprints you got to be aligned in how you think and what you believe and so we want to do that with couples.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: We go, hey it's gonna take more time more money more effort to build your home with bricks or to build it on a solid foundation like Jesus would say you know Matthew seven and so we want to do everything we can to help you build your life in the right way and you know I think churches just miss it.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: They they don't create any kind of uh ministry or opportunity for couples to stick around and so they're gonna go back to what's easier what the world has to offer sleep in on a Sunday right right yeah right and yeah so then they then they just get stuck and build their own patterns and habits which are typically not helpful and and I go it's no wonder that the divorce rate is 50% in and out of the church or whatever the number is and why couples are miserable and unhappy and they just don't have good models of what marriage looks like and have never been poured into to grow their marriage.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah oh that's a good really good illustration of creating the lasting relationship.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the community piece is so critical because I'm you know kind of how we talked about before especially the millennial generation is seeing their parents and that their those marriages disintegrate and not last and weather through the storm.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have to give them a community that models what could be.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because otherwise they have no picture.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean a lot of women who come to my home every week and we meet and we're talking about motherhood um and we're we're talking about it with some specifics because they didn't have it modeled for them.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: They have no idea and likewise for marriage the structure of community and creating the mentorship within it and giving giving the you know spelling it out of what it looks like and um I I think it's brilliant and it's so needed.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: In particular because this is a conversation the church needs to be had um having you framed this book about over 12 conversations every couple has and I love the title by the way the whole ready or not K-N-O-T brilliant hello just so good.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: In particular you know the book gives 12 of them but what would you say for those who are married now or those who are preparing for marriage what are the conversations that they need to be having and maybe on a regular basis that we're not thinking about yeah there's so every one of them is important right I mean there's 12 of them there could be another 50 and you know it's about communication money sex intimacy emotional intimacy family every one of them but yeah if I had to if I had to really just kind of pick a few of them I know it's picking your favorite children but it is exactly it is exactly like this they're all good.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah you know the the spiritual one is is by far the most important that you know are we are we really working off the same pattern and blueprint are we you know since Matthew 7 24 through 27 you know so Jesus finishes the Sermon on the mount he gets right at the end of it and he says you got two choices you either apply what you've heard and you'll stand strong and it you know it doesn't mean life's gonna be easy you're gonna face storms no matter what but what's going to happen when they come and and he guarantees they're gonna come there's there's one promise about marriage in the Bible it's 1 Corinthians 7 28.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: It says if you marry you will have trouble that's the only promise we know right which is yeah which is so not encouraging not encouraging at all yes the storms are going to come but are you going to stand firm or are you going to wash away and so sometimes that's the last conversation couples have when they're dating when it should be the first thing you know and that's not just when you say I do that's you know my faith and my wife's faith our our shared faith you know is the center of everything we do.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah all the decisions we make about money about time uh you know about our kids about um how we you know how we um make decisions about what we buy or what we don't buy that all of that centers around our faith and so it's not just a one-time check the box are you a Christian?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes if so we can get married it's a it's a daily ongoing conversation so that one is is uh by far the most important for premarried couples and then even as married couples we need to we need to keep having that conversation second is you know is we just talked about community and so are you someone who embraces community or are you going to run away from the counsel of others?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh it's so important.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah so you know who whoever walks with the wise grows wise a companion of fools will suffer harm.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's Proverbs 1320 and I you know I just think about you know Chris and I are with four other couples who are in our small group community group and those couples help us make the most important decisions in our life you know they help us process financial decisions they help us process job parenting like I can't tell you the number of times when you know when Kristen and I just try to figure out how do we how do we love our third child who is our middle child who's you know strong headed and insecure and way too concerned about what others think of him and wrapped up in all the the things of the world and I want to do this and Kristen wants to do that and we just can't get aligned on what you know what we what we think and what our what would best love our child and so just go into our community and saying help us figure it out will you pray for us will you help us resolve it and I I don't want to do life apart from community you know and I one more story I think about where I was as a single guy uh became a Christian at the age of 24 the one sin I never wanted to give up was pornography.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was just not going to talk about it.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want others to know and yeah to know and I remember telling a group of guys my my small group at the time this is before Kristen and I were dating confessing that I needed help and it was the most embarrassing thing in the world you know to to share my weakness and my struggle right and and I watched the way those guys came around me and loved me encouraged me affirmed me uh never gave me license or approval said we're here with you oh by the way I have the same struggle and though I watched the way that we walked through that challenge together and you know and I made I made a decision in that moment that I never wanted to do life apart from God's people because of the way that they love me and encourage me.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's yeah and I always tell pre-married couples if you're not if you don't want that or you're dating someone who does not want that then you're not marriage material.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: I hate to say it but you're gonna you're gonna realize countless times that you need other people.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah and so just that ongoing um ongoing need for community so vulnerability right I mean really that ties into if they're not willing to be vulnerable with others then they're probably not going to be vulnerable with you and then there's secrets and that will kill a marriage so quick.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes yeah so you're so right uh yeah if you can't share that with others you're probably not gonna share with your spouse and um that's just not a good recipe for success in marriage.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah yeah so faith community and then the third again so hard but I think just like are you someone who's teachable oh that's good yeah and humble.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and so am I that way is my potential spouse is my you know my my wife is she teachable humble am I that way um you know two times I think it's really significant that you know the scriptures give us in James and Peter 1 Peter 5 James 4 God would inspire two different people to say the same exact thing that God opposes the proud but shows grace or gives favor to the humble and one I don't want God to oppose me.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's for sure you definitely don't want that no life is hard enough and I don't want the God of the universe against me.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then you know I want to be someone who's teachable who is humble who you know somebody can wound me lovingly and and I will tell like couples who do well are not afraid to lovingly wound each other to receive challenges to um you know say hey I know I'm not doing God's best here and I want God's best so help me help me get there.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that that is a difference maker in in what I see in in successful couples.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that's so good.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the ongoing conversation I think that's what's fascinating is and this is the whole point and even kind of the heartbeat behind the simply wholehearted in our message is that there is no arrival point.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: This side of heaven there it's ongoing right a quest for our faith our quest for intimacy with Jesus and and for our quest with intimacy with one another and therefore these conversations that we should be having before we're married we should continue to have yes and hopefully each time it's going a little deeper right and we're demonstrating growth to one another and willingness to willingness to grow if we've gotten stagnant or um or to be teachable so that way we don't become that way.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and some I think you you just said it so well Amy I mean that uh it's not just conversations you have before you get married the couples who you know like get sports analogy um somebody who uh you know hits a lot of scores a lot of baskets in basketball gets a lot of home runs in baseball strikes out a lot of you know batters in baseball as a pitcher those are those are folks who do well they you measure their success largely based on those numbers if you're in business it's sales you make or how your company's doing that determines success in marriage you know the the biggest day-to-day difference maker one is our faith two is is like our ability to communicate and resolve conflicts that is what sets the good apart from the great and you know if you can't do and there's nothing there's nothing groundbreaking about it it's you know listening more than speaking it's seeking to understand it's you know not getting angry or harsh it's not rocket science it's uh you know it's how do you want to be communicated with is how you communicate with others and if you can't do that in marriage you're really gonna struggle and so that's what I you know my job is is not rocket science everything in the book that I'm sharing is not anything profound it's it's real simple are you willing to do are you will bottom line are you willing to do what God's word says yeah and if you are yeah it it doesn't mean you're not gonna struggle but things will go better for you and so just reminding people of you know of the of the basics day after day after day.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh that's so good.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well I think you've given a ton of practical advice that we can put into action right away whether we're still waiting for you know Mrs.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wright or Mr.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Wright to come our way or we're engaged and in a relationship or we're married even if we're you know 20 plus years in these are the conversations we have but I think it would be fun as summer is on the horizon I'm always looking for great fun you know simple fun things to do um whether it's with my kids or it's with my husband and I think it would be really fitting if you told maybe your favorite summer date that you've taken your wife Kristen right you said her name was taken her on or that you guys have done some maybe some year in the past or in the the recent future or recent um past um that you'd like to share with us.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh I love that great question.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: I so uh so one thing we did that that's been really fun we've got tickets there's a uh Dallas summer musical tour that we've gotten tickets for the last few years.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh that's fun so it's it's seven shows and so we just got to see Hamilton a couple a couple weeks ago I had a friend who went there too oh so it was it was awesome and it met every expectation it was so good and so that that's not something that like I would typically do is go see a musical but it's been a it's been a fun ongoing consistent date for us it's on the calendar that's awesome it's it's out of the box so that's one and then we just try to like challenge each other when we go on a date so like either coming up with a yeah I her initials are K L K minor S G K.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so like um like come up with a date night around our initials that's always fun we just try to think of things like things that are fun like that.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: But our our best and our favorite is we do day dates.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay yeah so this works when you're not exhausted.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah exactly yeah we're not tired and this works especially well it's I know you said summer but this is a pro tip for any any married couple you got kids in school or kids in preschool go on a day date you get a longer date yeah everything's cheaper during the day than at night so you're gonna pay less for lunch than dinner um you get a longer amount of time uh you don't have to worry about babysitting if you got younger kids.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah you can't and then we you know it's a great combination of go eat somewhere fun go explore somewhere new we can just hang out in the house and do what married people does exactly and no one's there no one's there to open the door to knock on the door nobody's wanting screaming and yelling exactly that's great I think that's like my pro tip I give all the time is take day dates super great.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah because the evening as romantic as that can be we're all exhausted and so meaningful conversation isn't at the ready at the end of a long work day or even a long weekend day with your kids.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's great.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's awesome breakfast dates for sure for the win.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah oh yeah I love it.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: These are great ideas I'm definitely the the whole um initial thing I'm gonna have to write that down and give that a whirl and see what we come up with.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I've got you know if anyone wants it on my on my website ScottKadershaw there's a download uh you know you put your email address in and and I send you a uh it's called 124 killer date night ideas.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: Love it and so it's 124 you know one of them is for Dallas Fort Worth and then I put together a national version oh awesome there's all kinds of like indoor outdoor challenges so I've there's a whole section of you know pick a color plan a date night initials you come up with a word you know all these challenges that you can do so that that might be just to get out of the rut and routine of doing the same thing over and over again.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah that's perfect.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well I'm gonna go download that today and I am guessing as soon as all of our friends hear it that you're gonna do the same because that is fantastic.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Goodness if you even found 10 that really worked great.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah there's a bunch.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's overwhelming but just a bunch of ideas.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's super well I've really loved this I really love the content of your book and the ministry Watermark is doing for marriages and just I mean it is such a need.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know we've discussed this but that you guys are not complaining about it.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing something about it and there's amazing fruit and I'm grateful because our church is certainly a recipient of um the hard work it's a labor of love goodness sakes all the pieces of it and uh we appreciate you and your service to the Lord and to marriage.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you thanks great being with you.
• 44:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Wasn't that conversation so great?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: I am going to download those date ideas and if you happen to be one of my listeners in the Dallas area you'll have to snag the local recommendations too.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you're inspired to seek out community, have those important conversations and encourage others to a healthy marriage.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: I gave Scott's book Ready or Not to an engaged couple from our financial peace small group and they have loved it.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: They mentioned it was an enjoyable read and it was fostering some great conversation between them as they prepare for marriage next year.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can purchase Ready or Not on Amazon today or follow Simply Wholehearted on Instagram to enter to win a free copy for yourself.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: Or you could text someone else you know that this book would be perfect for.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Let's continue to invite others to join us as we continue to pursue perspective, purpose and plans for a simply wholehearted life