Latest / UK Column Radio / Iurie Roșca, The Christian Optimist—Part 2

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Iurie Roșca, The Christian Optimist—Part 2 · UK Column Radio

0:12
You were deputy prime minister. Briefly. It was a tumultuous year generally for
0:17
Moldovan politics. The long serving president, Vladimir Voronin, a Socialist, was
0:22
succeeded by three acting presidents before you got a regularly elected president. But as
0:28
part of this turmoil, pressure was put on you to support him, whereas
0:33
you would preferably have stood for president yourself at this point what brought about your
0:39
downfall? Very quickly? In two thousands and three, Kremlin, the Russian
0:46
Federation tried to impose a so called the federalization solution for Transnistan conflict. In
0:55
Kisheno came mister Dmitri Kosa, who used to be Deputy German or deputy chief
1:02
of Russian Presidential Administration. They tried to legalize the Russian military presence for twenty
1:12
five years. And in that moment we rejected this project. Why and how
1:22
first of all our presence on the street, which goes back to two thousand
1:26
and one in fact, because at that point the Communists had a super majority,
1:30
two thirds majority, and yet they still didn't manage and we'll be talking
1:34
about the territorial angle in the moment transnistory at the eastern sliver of your country.
1:38
But they still didn't manage despite the absolute super majority two thirds to bring
1:44
about the communist will was clever enough to understand that his electoral platform, which
1:52
was suggested by Moscow doesn't work. He was a communist, but here understood
2:00
after a short period of time. Then he became for the first time president
2:05
in two thousand and one, that he cannot impose two state languages. It
2:09
means one state language Russian very early, but formally two. We should explain
2:16
why, because in this kind of asymmetric situation, everybody is forced to speak
2:21
Russian, because the Russian speakers will say, I don't speak Romanian exactly al
2:25
Soviet Stordia. And the second point of his political platform suggested by Moscow was
2:31
federalization, and the third the organization of Russian military presence. And again for
2:38
people used to best to know American ideas of federalism or federalization, we should
2:43
explain what that means. It would have meant, although they didn't put this
2:45
in the platform, it would have meant the cancelation of your constitution and the
2:51
dissolution of all your state bodies. The presidency in the Parliament the solution officially
2:55
over the state. You have to understand that the sentence, the key sentence
3:00
in this so called Kremlin version of a Transnistrian problem of solution for transition problem,
3:08
which is named now Cosakh memorandum or memoranda memorandum. Yeah. Uh,
3:20
Federative Republic of Moldova is the official legal successor of former Republic of Moldova.
3:29
And I asked him directly, who intended to kill my country? You?
3:36
Oh, sorry, guy, I will kill you. Why you are coming
3:38
to my country to say it that you are here to dissolve my country?
3:45
The Kremlin had sent him with a drafted check you have to check it on
3:49
internet. Officially, he came here and his plan was to dissolve Republic of
3:55
Moldova. And on this nomens, in this Noman's land, they tried to
4:00
organize a new country with new constitution, with new form of governance, with
4:06
so called asymmetrical federation, and the delegation from Piraspo, from separatist region from
4:14
Transnistria, which would have eighteen would have had eighteen or twenty mandates in national
4:24
Parliament. We have totally one hundred and one members of parliament, so they
4:29
would have had one fifth of the seats. Yeah, and they will have
4:33
the right to make veto on internal and external policy of my country. So
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a blocking minority of one fifth, it doesn't work. It doesn't work.
4:45
And be ready to receive this official information which was part of this official Russian
4:51
plan to solve Transnistrian problem. Every single high official from new country, Federative
5:01
Republic of Moldova must have in mandatory manner first deputy from Transnistrian region. What
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it means? What kind of asymmetrical federation? And I said to mister Dmitry
5:15
Cossack, we had an official meeting in now parliament free party leaders and the
5:20
leaders of our parliamentarian groups, and you had all been summoned, not that
5:26
they had the power to do it, but they had called you and said
5:29
you are now summoned to meet the Kremlin's personal representative, mister Kossak, who
5:31
has flown in flocretly. Yeah. Yeah, And it was very funny to
5:36
see how he tried to explain his position, his intention. I said to
5:46
him, where from I asked him, I am from Russia. And why
5:51
you are here? He he said, because I am an advisor. Reason
5:58
carefully, I am an advisor of your president. Next question, do you
6:04
have a more Lovan citizenship? No? But how you could be could be
6:09
an advisor of my president of my country. Ah, you could give to
6:14
him some advisors maybe not so good, maybe wrong, maybe dangerous or national
6:18
interest question you asked Sue Boy of president. Congratulations. And in that period
6:29
that time, during one week, we organized a huge, huge, enormous
6:34
street progress during the last week of November twelve and three, and the first
6:42
time because from the ninth of January to the twenty ninth of April the previous
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year two thousand and two, you had had people continuously on the street when
6:50
a previous version of this federal agenda had come out. No, it was
6:55
coming back to two thousands and two. We started our protests at nine General
7:00
and we finished at twenty nine of April. It was the longest anti governmental
7:06
protest in the whole ex Communist area. In that period of time, we
7:13
were able to promote the adoption of two resolution of European Parliament and two resolution
7:18
of Parliamentarian Assembly of Council of Europe. It was our fight, our merit.
7:25
Yeah. But back to November three, Kozakh is here as Putin's man.
7:30
He is brought with him a text that says Moldova will cease to exist.
7:32
The Kremlin put out a statement at the time saying Putin will be in
7:36
town tomorrow to welcome this new fact, to participate on official signing between our
7:42
official president Vladimir of Ronomond that period and self proclaimed the paratist so called president
7:50
Ward Smirnov. And during this week it was very tensioned situation. So they
7:59
were with the other two leaders of the parliamentary parties and you are saying,
8:03
what right do you have to impose this on us? Well, it was
8:07
very funny because we UH discovered this plan thanks to separatists news press agencies.
8:18
Why because separatists had no interest to legalize their religion, because it is a
8:24
black hole of Europe arm smuggling, yeah, not arm, not only arms,
8:30
everything everything and what they sat transnister Ukraine, Moldova, Romania. It's
8:35
very interesting way of making way of making money. I have transborder criminal networks.
8:41
So they leaked this to the press and we were shocked. And in
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that moment, UH mister Quasak was determined to announce officially his presence in teaching.
8:54
Oh, hello guys. And we discussed with him in parliament, and
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I said to him, you have to transmit to your boss that he offered
9:01
to you, like in this movie an impossible mission. You compromised your mission.
9:07
You look at this street, they are our followers. He was so
9:13
nervous because it was funny because in that period of time the ambassador of Russian
9:20
Federation, he knew me very well, was very clever person, diplomat.
9:26
His name was Admiral this Admiral Zubakov. And when I confronted mister Admittric Cossack,
9:35
he tried to stop to laugh, like this, mister Cossack, you
9:43
cannot smoke here. We are don't smoking in parliament. Excuse me. To
9:48
obtain this psychological superiority, I had to be a little bit more aggressive initially,
9:54
and that how we who finally decided do not sign our president communis president
10:01
mister Voronion, who would have normally very much welcomed it that as a result
10:09
of this imposed federalization, the embarrassment would have gone away. It was it
10:16
was late night when he quote officially put in and said to him, Vladimir
10:24
vladimir Vich I'm so sorry, but I cannot sign. What do you say?
10:30
I cannot sign it? But you promised me yes, but Uran boy
10:35
introduced some provisions which are against our constitution. I cannot. I cannot broke
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our constitution, souse, I got the blame. Yeah, in accordance with
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our constitution, with an alt all country and nobody can stay here immediately.
10:52
Because the background to this was four years previously, nineteen ninety nine, Russia
10:58
had signed an Ossee document, the Istanbul Document, exactly undertaking that it would
11:03
withdraw its basis from your country and from Georgia, which was in a similar
11:07
position. Time ticked on until it became an embarrassment. Every year Russia said,
11:11
we're not quite ready to withdraw from our basis in Georgia and Moldova.
11:16
Finally, it was make or break time. Every single year during the month
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of November or December. Year of December it organized the so called OEC simith,
11:28
and Russia tried to avoid an very embarrassing position in two thousand and three
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because this simith was prepared for the first and second of December in Maastricht that
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year before. It Once one year before they promised in Portugal that it is
11:54
enough one year to solve this problem. That was the summit at Stelo Branco,
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and then they said next year at Masstrict Chamber two thousand and three,
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we will definitively undertake to withdraw our basis and to avoid that because that was
12:07
sent for a last minute stitch er. Yeah. Yeah, he tried to
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organize the Kremlin trust to organize a so called diplomatic bliss creek and to present
12:16
to Western partners a feta complete. We won't because molds and Transnistrians agreed to
12:22
be a federation. Part of that deal, there would have the twenty five
12:28
ye rolling mandates. If you if Moldova didn't dinnect, you wouldnould have basisands.
12:33
More than that, the intention for dissolution of our constitution was so scandalous,
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was so so incredibly organ on behalf of Russians. They didn't respect any
12:52
kind of diplomatic julidical formalities a last minute and this coincidence of attitude myself and
13:07
my party and my colleagues from this street movement against Cosak memorandum, and this
13:20
attitude, very patriloty altitude of mister Vladimir Boronian determined predetermined our partnership. Two
13:28
years later in parliament when he was elected for the second a, Communists obtained
13:35
majority but not so large in their parliament, and in accordance to our constitution
13:39
before this changement, were operated by pro European parties. After that period,
13:46
we elected our president in parliament, and to be elected once again, he
13:52
needed some votes, maybe six or seven, I don't know exactly. And
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I came to him and I said to him, I will vote for you
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even if you are my opponent, because we have to protect our national interests
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and they know that Russians and Americans are preparing a kudta here in Moldova.
14:13
In fact, the same year, roughly two thousand and six, George Bush's
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personal friend when Bush was president, Bush Junior, Bruce Jackson. Bruce Jackson,
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Bush's personal friend, Bruce Jackson, this is Brush Junior, during his
14:28
presidency two thousand and six, told you that you were lined up to be
14:33
the Moldovan Sakashvili. You would have been if they had managed to get you
14:37
from opposition to put to government, they would have installed you as America's puppet
14:41
president. We have to yeah, we have to say that in that period.
14:45
In two thousand and five, Borogan was elected for the second time.
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Americans and Europeans supported him, a known communist. I'm not the he was
14:56
communists because because his attitude against Moscow expansionist intentions, and sakashily supported him with
15:07
Ukraine and President Yushenka supported him openly. Besszko, Romanian president was in favor
15:15
and supported him during the electoral campaign. And me as myself as chief of
15:22
my party and leader of my parliamentarian group, I thought that I have to
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support him because between us was pro Russian bureaucratic party, former communists and privatizator.
15:37
Yeah, corrupt guys which who was supported by Chubais and other liberals from
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Moscow around the Putin's administration. And we make this deal with Roldan public public
15:54
deal. And after that during four years two thousand and five life. On
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two thousand and nine, I was killed by dominant media as a trader and
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I am I asked then, and they'm asking now whom I betrayed, betrayed?
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Who am I betrayed? My national interests? It suggests just a political
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deal in national interests, not in myself interest or my party interest, not
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financial deal. It's about the rejection of a post Soviet syndrome of Russian Federation
16:34
to dominate our small port Soviet new countries. So after the decade of the
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two thousands, when you narrowly missed out on leading your country, you became
16:45
an increasingly persecuted dissident thinker. Instead. In twenty seventeen you founded the annual
16:52
Kishino Forum, which has become distinctly anti globalist. Before that, you were
16:57
a translator of Alexander Dugi material and many French dissident books as well into your
17:03
native language Romanian. In that time also you say that you discovered the essence
17:08
of Western corporatocracy and that it was no less arrogant and domineering than communist government,
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and you came out with this policy for yourself, I'd rather be a
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loser than a puppet. Yeah, this is a problem in our region.
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To be successful politicians in our country, it means in this period of time
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to accept the subordination to Washington or to Moscow. And it is not me.
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I am preferring to be a loser than to subordinate, to be a
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puppet of Western collective West for rational administration. Because Moldova has its a vocation
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for independence and its national interests. And I am not so happy to see
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how the largest part of our politic is acceptably puppets for Russian interests in Moldova
18:04
or Western interest Where is Moldovan political establishment in this situation. So you have
18:10
reached the conclusion that postmodernity is one goal with two methods, and the methods
18:17
are represented by Moscow on the one hand and the Brussels and Washington on the
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other. And during the decade of the twenty tens, the western part of
18:26
the franchise decides to turn against you as you oppose in particular the LGBT ideology.
18:33
Not ONLYTLGBT. It was maybe the key story in the scandal in public
18:38
life of Molova during several years, and there was a key person in these
18:42
public scandals. But and in fact that this country, Moldova, was the
18:48
first in the world where the church decided to hold a day of family pride
18:52
for heterosexuals to march. It is true. But you know, initially when
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I started my political activity, I nuna think about economic colonialism. I didn't
19:03
know about corporatocracy. I didn't know how functions a global financial system, what
19:11
it means to colonize mentally and after that politically and economically ex communist area.
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And when I discovered, thanks to my personal political experience and thanks to my
19:27
uh preoccupation with my with books, I am usually reading in for languages English,
19:41
French, Russian and Romanian, and I tried, I tried to understand
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why Moldova is so poor country, why Moldova is not a successful country.
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Usually the official narrative is calling is interpreting this situation like this because of corruption,
19:57
corruption of politicians. But it is not true. Corruption doesn't change the
20:03
level of underdevelopment of my country. It's about the colonial legislation which was imposed
20:14
by collective west IMF World Bank WTO from nineteen ninety four trade trade organization,
20:26
and they constrained us. They imposed a mandatory politics with open borders, with
20:37
so called free tradism, free trade. Yeah, and it meant an economic
20:45
colonization of my country and whole ex communist area. When I discovered, stupid
20:51
me this so in places and situations that we are, we became a new
20:56
third World. I reacted and I published many articles and books and I talked
21:06
about this in parliament and everywhere that we were so ignorant in this kind of
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domains. What it means, international relations, what it means, economic domination,
21:22
what it means, civilization, domin domination, what it means, the
21:27
intention to reshape all nations, all collective identities. It was, it was
21:33
a new agenda for our society. And the tragedy is that the largest majority
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of talking heads in this country, politicians, so called experts, angiocracy or
21:47
mediocracy, or they don't know nothing about it. The ignorance is total.
21:53
In Romania. We can call up the hypocrisy, the double standards. They
21:59
are talking this kind of official narrative because they paid they they are paid for
22:07
it, yeah, by Soros Foundation or other foundations and so on. In
22:12
our case, it is just as about mediocrity. And in the period when
22:18
you were an aficionado of Alexander Dugin, I understand that he told you that
22:23
a certain group of people around him had set up Vladimir Putin, as he
22:29
put it to be, to play the role of a strong man, and
22:33
that he wasn't really in charge. Alexander Dugin for remains for me very important
22:37
international intellect. Well, he has a huge and enormous academical contribution. Many
22:45
many very serious books through politics, sociology and so on. And I translated
22:55
for books and many articles of Alexander Dugan. In that period of time ten
23:03
years ago and a little bit more, maybe some of his team told me
23:11
that Putting is not so strong. But they created political analysts and commentators and
23:22
journalists. They built this image of Putting off brave and strong men and statemen
23:30
and the man as for Oxed for Western countries and so on, and in
23:37
fact Putting is not so strong. But their impression was that they convinced Putting
23:44
to believe in his dream and to become a strong stateman. Now I am
23:49
seeing that it was a mistake, because Putting is a little guy which is
23:55
controlled by who is controlled by Putting, his little guy, who is controlled
23:59
by his entourage, his oligarchs, Russians or not necessary Russians who are based
24:07
in Russia and who are controlling the great business in Russia and who in fact
24:14
colonized Russia. But in that period of time, Dugienstein thought that they can
24:22
reinvent Putin and make make him very strong fighter for national interests of Russia.
24:30
Some of our viewers will have read alex Kreiner's suppressed book, The Grand Deception,
24:37
which is about what he correctly calls the Bill Browder hoax, when Bill
24:41
Browder, the hedge fund man, claimed that he had heroically intervened when Mikhael
24:48
Rodorkovsky began to be allegedly persecuted by the Putin clique for no reason. Kryner
24:55
found that Rodrokovsky had been involved in some very questionable dealings. Yeah. Yeah,
25:00
but you contend that from the American side, George H. W.
25:04
Bush's personal crony, Bruce Jackson, your former friend, former mentor, you
25:11
had found that there were other plans for Hodorkovski. It was very funny when
25:17
Hodorkovski, this real criminal and very important, the mafia guy who killed many
25:22
people and who tried to but he wasn't alone. He represents represented in that
25:30
period of time syndicate and with Leaguis, with the Rothschild Klan, and with
25:37
some American extensions. Yeah, mainly among the Republicans and the Bluce. Jackson
25:48
was very friendly with myself and he said I came to Washington by coincidence when
25:53
was arrested mister Kodorkovski two thousand and six, at a time when the McCain
25:59
faction, Richard Pearl faction of the Republicans. We will be able to impose
26:02
our will on the whole Soviet world. McCain published an article in one very
26:07
important newspaper. I don't know exactly what Washington Post maybe, or what was
26:12
the journal against Putin, and he said, after hodro Kovski was arrested,
26:22
that it is the great spoliation or expropriation of Jewish people, after the Hitler's
26:30
experience. Okay, but Bruce said me, you have to know you it
26:36
was a dire discussion. I apologized, Bruce, But Bush Junior had had
26:41
two terms and it was the plan was for McCain to continue and radicalize that
26:45
legacy. And in this period of build up two thousand and six, yeah,
26:49
yeah, they tried to promote Hodrokovski as a head of state with Russia
26:56
as presidential candidate who was planned to represent the occupational administration, the anti Russian
27:11
administration, colonial administration, and Russian Federation, and Putting, not putting,
27:17
but not officially directly put in his administration or prosecutor protecutor offers arrested him.
27:23
But in fact it was a conflict between some factions of oligags in Russia,
27:32
and the Oligags killed their conquerence and promoted put In, that's it, not
27:41
killed directly, imprisoned or determined them to go abroad. So you were told
27:45
that the people who got rid of Hodorkovsky would never be forgiven by the American
27:55
Hawks the neocons, because he had been lined up to be the next man
27:59
in Russia. Yeah, it is true. And now we are seeing this
28:03
anti war commity of Hodorkovski which is very ethnically colored. Yeah, and this
28:10
is why they're always banging the drum in London for the Magnetski Act and to
28:14
broaden that to the EU and other country. Yeah. But at the same
28:17
time, I have to mention that for me, Putting is not a hero,
28:19
not as a real state statement, because he demonstrated his capacity to build
28:26
a new strong, economically and military Russia, and Russia during this long mandate
28:33
of Putting initially was accepted by Europeans and collective West as economic appendix. And
28:42
now Russia become a colony of China. That's it. Russia doesn't exist jo
28:49
politically anymore. They are not even a regional power because, for example,
28:59
the leadership political leadership with the Erdogan and Turky state is much more stronger than
29:04
Russia today. That's why Kremlin is so happy to be to subordinate themselves to
29:12
China. It certainly seems that in the Caucasus and the Middle East, Turkey
29:18
is calling the shots in its relationship with Russia regarding oil politics, the choking
29:22
of Armenia, the strategic oil and gas lines running through the region. But
29:26
we have no time to discuss that today. Let's wrap up with some moments
29:30
when you saw the veil of democracy dropped by the American side and the EU
29:37
side at the very same time two thousand and one, when as described you
29:42
were resisting Russian attempts to recolonize you starting from the Transnistrian separatist enclave, you
29:48
found that the head of THESSEE Mission in Moldova. So that's the Organization for
29:56
Security and Cooperation in Europe, and that's always by tradition a US diplomat heading
30:00
the mission. The head at that time in two thousand and one tried to
30:04
solve the Transnistrian conflict in the West's favor over your head. That was a
30:10
man called William Hill. Not the British book maker, but the American diplomat,
30:14
an old diplomat who used to work in American embassy in Moscow Urdian Soviet
30:18
period, who spoke fluent Russian. Y aa, he is spoken, he's
30:23
speaking more or less good Russian. And he launched this idea of federalization or
30:32
republic of Moldova. He was the first public figure in Moldova who proposed it
30:37
before the Kremlin did. Ye On Bhalkoff himself. He didn't officially represent the
30:45
US or OC. Was his own proposal. We have to solve Transnistrian problem
30:52
throughout federalization. And notably in the very same year that Dieter Boden, a
30:56
German diplomat, tried the same with Georgia and abrah On behalf of the United
31:00
Nations. In that period of time, not only on Americans but German people.
31:04
German politicians were very active to impose to USK federalization and William Hill made
31:11
use of his half decent Russian. Didn't it to insult you. It was
31:15
so funny when I had the I published, when I published several articles against
31:26
so called federalization, and some journalists asked, asked mister William Hill, the
31:33
chief of OEC office in Moldova. What is your reaction on Juri Roska's attitude
31:40
and the position and articles and public speeches against federalization. And he used to
31:48
say in Russian he had to it was so funny, that's a lot of
31:53
nonsense. Yeah, it's it's a sort of nonsense. Yeah. From time
32:00
to time, this small city Kishno, I met him and he permanently tried
32:07
to avoid me, like this, mister Hill. In a town as small
32:10
as Kische, now you can't avoid bumping into your nemesis. And it was
32:16
funny because I was permanently in Central Aria parliament and my party and so on.
32:22
He circulated in the same area and he tried permanently to avoid to have
32:29
this ice contact with me. I was very very close friend with many members
32:36
of parliament from Germany from CIDIU party Christian Democratic Union Party. These are MEPs
32:43
in Strasbourg and Brussels, and mp also from the Bundestag. In that period
32:47
of time, not only Americans but Germans too. I'm talking about two thousand
32:52
and one, two thousand and two, when Western diplomats tried to impose was
33:00
so called federalization, and from German parliament came to Republic of Moldova, Cloudy
33:06
Ante, Cloudy Anti used to be I think, in that period of time
33:12
the chief of Friendship Committee Germany Republic of Moldova, and she sent to me.
33:19
I knew her from Brussels, from Germany, from other international meetings of
33:24
Christian Democrats. She organized a meeting with the separatist leaders and with them Pace
33:31
from Kisheno official peace and leader party leaders to explain how functions federal fiscal budget,
33:42
how efficient it is, how good it is. And I didn't participate
33:45
on this meeting. And she came without calling me to my office, just
33:51
walked in. Yeah, yeah, in the very arrogant manner. I said
33:54
theory, hello, why he was absent today in my confidence? And they
34:01
said, hey, Claudia, shut up, take a see it be calm.
34:07
Maybe federation is function functional for your country and for us, but for
34:12
this little piece of land, this kind of federation is only two subjects.
34:16
Republic of Moldova place the second or the first subject Russian army doesn't work.
34:24
What you're pointing out here is that on paper, the other federal subject would
34:30
have been the Republic of Transnistria, and in practice it would have been the
34:32
Russian Army Claudian ALTI was shocked and the same reaction had this guy from State
34:38
Department, Steve Pifer. Steve Pifer used to be very important dignitary in State
34:44
Department and it came to State Department. He was the deputy Assistant Secretary of
34:47
State for your part of the world at that point in that period. And
34:53
he asked me the same question, how you could be against federation. We
35:00
us our federation and it is so well, maybe for it, it's acceptable
35:05
for me, no, because our constitution has this clear provision where a unitary
35:13
state. We have a small piece of land and we cannot federalize ourselves with
35:17
Russian army. And he reacted, ladies, very stupid manner. And this
35:24
this manner in the State Department. One is talking, another is taking taking
35:30
notes about your body language. And this would have been the desk officer,
35:35
Mark Taplin, for your Markedupplin was ahead of Ukraine, Bells and Moldova.
35:42
And I was in his office twice or three three times and asked every single
35:47
year, I asked him Mark, tell me please, how about your dialogue
35:53
with the Russians. They are ready to withdraw their military presence you. It
36:00
is very serious diplomatic and strategic problem. You can't I understand, but I
36:07
am here to see if you are able to do it. If not,
36:10
we have to change our diplomatic insistence and to have a dialogue only with Russians,
36:19
because you cannot solve it. Yeah. But in any case, it
36:24
was not so pleasant, but it is. It happens permanently with small and
36:31
not so important geopolitical states, like the Republic of Great Actors. They come
36:38
and say, why can't you be like America, Why can't you be like
36:43
Russia? Yeah? Yeah, and they like you Russians for Americans only if
36:50
you are obsessed to become Russian or American or European or European. And if
36:58
we are trying to trying to explain that we are not against you, we
37:00
are a little different than this is that's it. We have to have very
37:06
very wood and excellent partnership and so on, but we cannot. No.
37:10
Shakespeare has the famous line that the English will not apologize for wearing their own
37:15
noses, that is being themselves. And this is what you were saying too.
37:20
But in those days your English wasn't as excellent as now, so when
37:22
these people from the State Department came over to browbeat you. In Taplin's case,
37:28
literally to throw themselves forward. And it was a piper piper's case,
37:35
and he was he is a tall guy like this, and he came so
37:39
closely. It wasn't so polite because we have a manner to discuss in diplomatic
37:44
manner. So whenever this happened, you were using an interpreter. In this
37:47
case, I think it was Fredo Ariaski from Mexico City. I understood that
37:52
English, but I was not capable able to talk good English. That's why
38:01
fred warias king who is He was an advisor to President Vicente Fox. Yeah,
38:07
he was advisor for Foreign AFLs of candidate the Center Fox, former President
38:12
of Mexico, Mexico, and he helped me to come to Washington two or
38:21
three times. He paid for it because he is a member of very rich
38:27
Mexican family and he liked me. Liked me because he came several times in
38:31
Kishine and participated on now summer universities and different party activities, and he was
38:38
for him. It was so funny that I'm confronting a little politician for a
38:45
little piece of Land is confronting this American hegemon. Wherever you are Strasburg,
38:51
Foggy Bottom, the Kremlin, all you're doing is saying, don't tell me
38:57
to shut up. All you're doing is saying you have no to say I
39:00
have one minute of talking time. Or you're saying, we're in this house
39:04
now, the parliament, it has its own rules. You only insisting that
39:07
you receive equal and respectful treatment. But they can't cope with it. You
39:12
know, it is not about my character, maybe partially, but I tried.
39:16
I tried to protect our national interests of my small country, republic of
39:24
pabluc and our dialogue, very difficult dialogue, and from time to time conflicts
39:30
and diplomatic confrontations with Russia or with the United States and the European Union.
39:37
And it was unusual, I could say, in our country and between two
39:45
forces. It wasn't so easy to resist. I resisted during many, many
39:49
years, but one day it was a successful operation for them to eliminate me
39:54
from political landscape. Yeah, but I don't regret because because my period finished.
40:04
Why because why we were as successful? Many people asking it's asking me
40:08
why you was able in your colleagues to be five times in parliament. I
40:14
was only four, but the first present was in the first parliament and after
40:19
the independence. And my answer is very very simple. We were successful because
40:27
communist system was destroyed, disappeared, but capitalistic system was in the incipient period
40:38
when plutocracy became a normality here and when money civilization, my monocracy became a
40:46
normal state of reality here in Moldova. People like myself, not not only
40:53
my Molova, but in all communist country was eliminated from a political leadership.
41:01
But just before this elimination from politics, in two thousand and nine, you
41:06
had the opportunity to confront the successor of the said William Hill, the next
41:10
head of the Ossee mission to mold Over another state department man. This one
41:15
is Philip Renler, and you had to tell him that his predecessor hadn't quite
41:21
got the message. Yeah. Yeah, it was and not so pleasant meeting
41:28
for him, because he came to my party office with one young lady from
41:31
Poland. And in that period I was very nervous because it was so difficult
41:37
to reject this insistence to federalize our country, to federalize that country on behalf
41:44
of OC Americans and Germans especially, and they started our dialogue in this way.
41:51
Do you know who am Yeah, you are a party leader and a
41:54
member of NO. No, I am able to organize a huge mass protest
41:59
every since all day like this, only myself and my team, and you
42:04
weren't shooting the breeze. You had done this several times. And I said
42:07
to him, I apologize for this direct style, but don't wait to waste
42:14
your time with me. Just you have to keep in mind one request.
42:20
Don't try to solve Transnistrian problem without my participation. It could be very problematic
42:27
with you, because I will come to your office with my people and I
42:30
will ask you why you are trying to solve Transnistrian problem without parliament, without
42:36
public debates and so on. And this young lady was so shocked. He
42:42
noted everything. And he was deputy. She was deputy I think in that
42:46
period. And I asked him, do you understand me? And he said,
42:52
yes, I understand you. Thank you very much. Our meeting could
42:57
be closed now. Thank you for your v Oh. It was a huge
43:01
scandal. Who is Julie Roska? Who is so arrogent? No, I
43:08
wasn't arrogent. I just was determined to explain to them that we have our
43:15
own national interests. You can imagine small countries its own national interests. And
43:21
this Transnistrian conflict is real and personal to you, because am I correct that
43:25
you commanded troops in nineteen ninety three in the south of your country in Kahul
43:30
No. No, it was a confusion in the newspapers in that period of
43:36
time. On the contrary, in nineteen ninety during the fall period, the
43:43
autumn, it was a special operation to provoke central authorities to accept military confrontation
43:59
with separatist region. At that period of time, Gagauz region's southern part of
44:04
Moldova. Tyurkish population is another separatist in the south, not the Transnistry and
44:08
Progussi not the transition. But now this question was sold. In nineteen ninety
44:14
four we adopted a special law. I voted against. It is another story,
44:17
but in that period of time, Kremlin tried to provoke conflicts just to
44:24
have a pretext to introduce their troops in thest Serbian part of Mondova, because
44:28
Transistory religion is in another part of Niesta River, and that was I tried
44:38
to stop the violence because our government our formal promise, I mean I was
44:47
surprised launched an official statement and so said all real patriots have to become volunteers
44:58
to finish with the separatist the region of Gagaoozy about how like this we have
45:06
to kill gagoos This would have been a jihad because these are Muslim Turks in
45:09
the south. I I don't know if in that period of time our prime
45:15
minister was manipulated, maybe, but it was a great political mistake. And
45:21
I came to Kahul, this is the most important town in southern part of
45:27
Moldova next to Gagaoozian region, and I concentrated about two or maybe two or
45:32
half thousands militants patriots and during one week, who I explained to them why
45:43
we have not to apply violence against our Gagaouosian citizens. And you know,
45:50
after more than twenty years, I discovered that Gagahousian leaders had the same attitude
46:00
among them exactly like amongst us. Were infiltrated provocators to determine a violent confrontation
46:12
between the Moldovans and Gagaoissians. And I was really shocked that those Gagoysian leaders
46:22
who were very very cicuar and motivated. They fought in their style for their
46:27
collective identity. Yeah. Maybe not in legal way, but we can understand
46:32
it now, but in a moral way. Yeah. And I am very
46:38
happy that in nineteen ninety when I was very young, I understood the real
46:45
meaning of this so called confrontation between Moldovans and Gagossians, and I stopped it
46:51
with my people, with my team. Yeah. And Kremlin failed this moment
46:59
to provoke military confrontation like it was successful in nineteen ninety two. Two years
47:05
later with transistory and religion or on the western side, we can say that
47:08
Samuel Huntington and his disciples did not manage to make your country another theater of
47:14
their clash of civilizations. Is that they were not able to write up that
47:17
Muslims and Christians were fighting Holy wars in that case, But in nineteen ninety
47:22
two, it was for a Karemlian a very successful operation to provoke this military
47:27
conflict just to have a legal, legal, official pretext to keep their army
47:35
in our territory. And the year after you left politics, so twenty ten,
47:39
the US embassy started browbeating you. Also, didn't it we must have
47:45
an anti discrimination law in Moldova. You must get with the program. Yeah.
47:51
Yeah. After two thousand and nine, when a communist party with the
47:55
Wroonian leader of this party resident who won once again for the third time the
48:04
elections so called pro Western parties, which were like today like current governors,
48:13
a direct product of Western networks and JeOS and mass medias. One, they
48:20
committed a violent kudeta at seven of April in two thousand and nine and they
48:28
became rulers like in Georgia, Wan Ukraine, the same story, but he
48:36
was violently enough, and during two mondays of communist coronium, Europeans and Americans
48:49
were able to wasn't able to promote during communist period or not communist, but
48:55
period of communist governors here in molgoverna Western collective. West wasn't able to promote
49:02
so called anti discantinaitory all law so to legalize LGBT movement and so on.
49:12
Why Lain, explained me, former president of Republican I'm a Christian believer.
49:16
Very strange situation. Yeah, communist Christian believer, and his mother used to
49:22
be very strong Christian believer also, and he stopped it, blocked it and
49:28
after him came Pro European Parties Alliance and they started to talk openly about this
49:37
intention to adopt this project of law, and some commissioners came to Kitschhenow.
49:44
I forget the name of this guy from Slovenia. In my book The Fall
49:52
from USSR to EU, I'm quoting with him in several articles, who came
49:58
here several times to she ceased to promote this law and that was against I
50:02
organized a press conference. So it was probably in two thousand and nine or
50:07
ten when I received this call from American embassy from mobile to mobile, because
50:15
in that period of time I used to work as diplomat. He one very
50:20
old friend of mine, one lady. She his name is Darya Faine.
50:25
She used to be in Soviet Pedistroica period in Moscow diploma American diplomat, and
50:30
now she became in that period a chief of department for Politics and Economy and
50:39
in the American ambassy in kitchen of you. Hello, how are you doing?
50:45
Excellent? Thank you? Can I visit you? And I asked,
50:47
when just now, Daddia, you are a diplomat. You cannot say just
50:52
now. We have to program it. You have to check out agenda.
50:57
Uri, come on, we have to have a meeting quickly. He came.
51:00
She came to my office in my party office, and she remained there
51:07
for three hours. She smoked a lot I smoked at that period of them
51:13
also, And you've told me this story before off camera that she was so
51:16
nervous that she was chain smoking. I understand. Bruce Jackson had the same
51:21
habit always Kent cigarettes, wasn't it, And he could knock back forty cans
51:25
of beer. Yeah, Han again, only Hain again. And Bruce used
51:31
to smoke Kent lads. But the Daria Feinne I don't remember, but she
51:38
was so insistent that I have to renounce to my attitude against anti discriminatory so
51:47
called anti disclamatory law. It meant legalization of sexual perversions, of sodomy.
51:55
And I said, Daria, sorry, but I cannot accept your but it
51:59
is a American politics. You must do it in Moldover because American policy says
52:06
so. Yeah, she's a rabbi's daughter, Yeah, she is the Daddya
52:10
Fain. Her origencies from Russia, I think, and she is a daughter
52:16
of a rabbi. We have not any problems with this background but she was
52:25
so disappointed with my attitude, and she really was very friendly with me because
52:35
during Soviet period I was so so loud hoolygan here from anti communist movement.
52:42
They admired me and applauded me, and now they was they deterled me to
52:47
abandon the communication cooperation with me, and after two years I think this law
52:55
was adopted, but in castrated form, not as initially so dangerous. But
53:02
anyhow, they accepted this expression sexual minority. It doesn't exist in our constitution.
53:10
We are enumerating all kind of minorities national, linguistical and religious and so
53:15
on, but sexual minorities and aberration. It's an abnormal, abnormal formula.
53:22
But anyhow, our pro Western governances during now fourteen years always are in favor
53:34
of Sodomite for algebrative movement and so on. Yuri Roshka. We conclude this
53:42
interview by explaining the timing of it. I've come to Moldova now because this
53:46
may be my last chance for a long while to speak to you. You're
53:51
facing criminal charges which could land you in jail for seven years, with all
53:58
that that entails in a country like this, forced injection with COVID products and
54:02
other things that you have stood very firm against the charge that's dangling over your
54:07
head is peddling influence. How have they managed to stick that on you?
54:14
You know, this criminal case is not the first. I don't know how
54:19
many. It was so frequently during the last now thirty five years. There
54:25
was many, many times invited to Prosecutor of the office and had many prosecuted
54:32
criminal prosecution cases. But I avoid it to be in prison because every single
54:38
time it was about politics, and now it is about my political position.
54:45
This case was officially launched against me five years ago, years of health now
54:54
absolutely without any arguments, without without any proofs and so on. And during
55:02
December months now this year, we will have three sessions of first level in
55:09
court. And I think this judge, this lady is very correct and good
55:16
professional and positive person, because meantime our governance was governance was changed twice.
55:24
My judge is another one, my prosecutor who is representing state interests in this
55:32
criminal cases, another person with one young lady. But I know how effective
55:39
could be our regime to constrain them to condemn me for prison. It is
55:49
a real danger. But I was some friends of mine suggested me, you
55:53
have to escape this destiny and to go abroad, in Russia or in Romania
56:00
or in Western Countess. As I said, no, I will remain here
56:04
because if I will accept to to finish my life abroad, it means I
56:09
would I will compromise all my my life and my struggle and my fight for
56:20
values. And it is not for me. I am ready, I am
56:25
ready. It is. I don't want to be imprisoned, but I am
56:29
ready for it. I prepared my books. I think I will be able
56:35
to have paper and the capacity to write. When it is enough for me,
56:40
maybe I will avoid it. But you know, the problem is not
56:45
so not first of all the dangerous the generals. This The problem is not
56:54
our governance we are. We have all of our puppet governance which controlled by
57:00
Americans. I don't know if Western partners of Moldova could influence the final decision
57:10
in this case. And to be to have more chances to survive, to
57:15
avoid this imprisonment, it means to be not so loud, to stop my
57:23
political not political metapolitical now, my videos, my articles, my books,
57:30
my public activity, my kitchen of forum initiative. You began the kitchen of
57:37
forum, just months before the charges were first opened against you. Yeah,
57:40
but they cannot stop it because if I cannot live without it, and I
57:46
am very I'm very interested to see how they will present and possible condemnation.
57:58
It is I am without any protection political or from some political groups or groups
58:06
of interests here or abroad. And maybe it is very important for a med
58:12
to remain in dependen person. Yuri Eroshka. Perhaps that will be your legacy
58:17
that you were the only man in your country, in your political generation who
58:22
was not an oligarch, or who did not have a so called krisha,
58:27
a protector on top of you other than the God in whom you trust.
58:31
We wish you all the best with facing off these charges, and I trust
58:36
in God's will that I'll be able to speak to you as a free man.
58:39
But if not, I wish you all the strength and faith and courage
58:44
you need in prison. Thank you very much, my friend, Thank you
58:46
very much. Good bless you to