Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Dan Grec on Circumnavigating Australia, and the Importance of Connecting with Family.

Transcript

Dan Grec on Circumnavigating Australia, and the Importance of Connecting with Family. · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: Lo. I'm Scott Brady with Overland Journal and Expedition Portal
0:10
Speaker 1: and for this week's episode, I interview Dan Grek. We
0:13
Speaker 1: do the interview at the Overland Expo in Flagstaff and
0:17
Speaker 1: Dan was actually our very first interviewee. So we interviewed
0:21
Speaker 1: Dan many years ago, actually at Overland Expo East, just
0:25
Speaker 1: before he was getting ready to do his big trip
0:28
Speaker 1: around Australia. So Dan has done several notable expeditions. He
0:32
Speaker 1: drove the length of the Pan American in a two
0:35
Speaker 1: door soft top unmodified Jeep Wrangler, and then several years
0:38
Speaker 1: later he prepared Jeep JK and he drove that around Africa.
0:43
Speaker 1: He literally nearly circumnavigated the African continent and some incredible
0:49
Speaker 1: insights and stories from that. And then most recently he
0:52
Speaker 1: built a Jeep Gladiator and drove it around and across
0:56
Speaker 1: Australia multiple times, including the Canning Stock route out. We
1:00
Speaker 1: go into some really great conversations around traveling with our
1:03
Speaker 1: parents and spending time with our parents, and about the
1:07
Speaker 1: upsides and downsides of solo travel, and also how Dan's
1:11
Speaker 1: philosophy for being present during our travels, which is something
1:15
Speaker 1: that I know I need to work on, but he
1:17
Speaker 1: does a great job of sharing some of his tips
1:20
Speaker 1: and tricks for being in the present when you're on
1:22
Speaker 1: these great adventures. So please enjoy my conversation with Dan Grek.
1:27
Speaker 1: This content is brought to you by Overland Journal, our
1:30
Speaker 1: premium quality print publication. The magazine was founded in two
1:34
Speaker 1: thousand and six with a goal of providing independent equipment
1:39
Speaker 1: and vehicle reviews, along with the most stunning adventures and photography.
1:45
Speaker 1: We care deeply about the countries and cultures we visit
1:49
Speaker 1: and share our experiences freely with our readers. We also
1:54
Speaker 1: have zero averatorial policy and do not accept any advertiser
1:58
Speaker 1: compensation for our reviews. By subscribing to Overland Journal, you're
2:03
Speaker 1: helping to support our employee owned and veteran owned publication.
2:08
Speaker 1: Your support also provides resources and funding for content like
2:12
Speaker 1: you are watching or listening to right now. You can
2:17
Speaker 1: subscribe directly on our website at Overland Journal dot com. So, Dan,
2:24
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the podcast again.
2:28
Speaker 1: You were actually our very first podcast guest, and that
2:32
Speaker 1: was for good reason, because of the quality of the
2:34
Speaker 1: trips that you've done and the nature and the way
2:37
Speaker 1: in which you've done them. I just greatly admire so
2:41
Speaker 1: many things about your travels and you as an individual.
2:44
Speaker 1: In fact, we'll talk about some more of that in
2:46
Speaker 1: a second, about your cell phone, because I think that
2:48
Speaker 1: that's a really neat story. But thank you Dan so
2:51
Speaker 1: much for being on the podcast today.
2:53
Speaker 2: It's always a pleasure, Scott. I love bouncing on, ease
2:55
Speaker 2: off you. I feel like you have a perspective on
2:57
Speaker 2: this industry is valuable and honor enjoyed like getting to
3:01
Speaker 2: be a part of it.
3:02
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm almost at the cantankerous stage.
3:04
Speaker 2: Well I I've got more gray hair than you, so.
3:08
Speaker 1: That's because I have no hair. So too funny. The
3:11
Speaker 1: last time that we had you on the podcast, you
3:14
Speaker 1: had just finished an incredible trip around Africa, nearly circumnavigating
3:21
Speaker 1: the continent. Only the only reason why you didn't was
3:24
Speaker 1: because of some geopolitical restrictions that made it impossible. But
3:29
Speaker 1: you finished that trip, and you did that in your
3:31
Speaker 1: JK and then you moved to Australia and let's pick
3:37
Speaker 1: up the story from there. So what inspired you to
3:39
Speaker 1: go to Australia, What was the vehicle that you built,
3:41
Speaker 1: and what did you do when you were there? That's
3:43
Speaker 1: a lot of questions. Yeah, we got all the time
3:45
Speaker 1: you need it, man.
3:46
Speaker 2: I originally when I left Australia twenty years ago, I
3:49
Speaker 2: kind of I went on all these adventures around the world,
3:52
Speaker 2: and somewhere along the line, I realized how much I
3:54
Speaker 2: missed my family. Yeah, sure, how much I missed spending
3:57
Speaker 2: time with them. And my brother has a couple of
3:59
Speaker 2: little boys now an uncle. And as I started dreaming
4:03
Speaker 2: of where I wanted to go next in the world,
4:05
Speaker 2: it didn't even really matter where I was going. I
4:08
Speaker 2: just wanted to include my family. That became the priority.
4:11
Speaker 2: And then so it was Australia because that's where they live.
4:14
Speaker 1: And where do they live in Australia.
4:16
Speaker 2: They're in the south, just around from Melbourne, like on
4:19
Speaker 2: the Great Ocean Road, so surfing, beautiful beaches, like really
4:23
Speaker 2: nice place to be.
4:24
Speaker 1: That is a beautiful part of Australia. One of the
4:27
Speaker 1: things that I really liked about Melbourne is it felt
4:31
Speaker 1: like the most international city in the country. You would
4:35
Speaker 1: think that Sydney would be that, but it's not. Yes,
4:38
Speaker 1: Melbourne just has this I think because it's a little colder,
4:42
Speaker 1: the weather's a little more extreme.
4:44
Speaker 2: I think you're right people have like a slightly different
4:47
Speaker 2: attitude or people are sort of a bit more tolerant
4:50
Speaker 2: of the weather.
4:50
Speaker 1: And yeah and all of that. No, it's a really
4:52
Speaker 1: beautiful spot and it's so easy to catch that ferry
4:55
Speaker 1: down to Tasmania.
4:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was a big priority for me because
4:58
Speaker 2: I've never been to Tasmania and actually I had never
5:01
Speaker 2: been to almost all of Australia.
5:03
Speaker 1: I'd seen a tiny little corner of it. And did
5:06
Speaker 1: you grow up there? I did? Yeah. Yeah, you were
5:08
Speaker 1: born in Australia, born in.
5:09
Speaker 2: Australia, high school, university. I left when I was about twenty.
5:13
Speaker 1: Three, Okay, and that's when you moved to Canada, that's right. Yeah,
5:17
Speaker 1: well came to the US first.
5:18
Speaker 2: Actually I worked in California for a season at Tahoe
5:21
Speaker 2: like shoveling snow. It was that sounds great. It got addicted. Yeah,
5:25
Speaker 2: and then I heard Canada has lots of snow. So
5:28
Speaker 2: I went to Canada for sure to do the same thing.
5:30
Speaker 2: Oh that's great, and never left. So it was kind
5:33
Speaker 2: of a returning home for you. And were you able
5:37
Speaker 2: to do that? Were you able to make that time
5:39
Speaker 2: to be with family in the way that you wanted Yeah.
5:41
Speaker 1: It was.
5:42
Speaker 2: It was really great because basically I just lumped in
5:44
Speaker 2: on my dad and I said, hey, Dad, I'm going
5:46
Speaker 2: to live with you for a few months while I
5:48
Speaker 2: built out the new vehicle. And then on the trip,
5:51
Speaker 2: he came with me on a few different segments and
5:53
Speaker 2: so he had never been in a four wheel drive before,
5:56
Speaker 2: he'd never driven one, and so to be able to
5:58
Speaker 2: bring him along, you know, like some it's a pretty
6:00
Speaker 2: challenging like low range, technical terrain and then becoming stock
6:04
Speaker 2: rout as well.
6:04
Speaker 1: Dad joined me. And had you ever spent that much
6:08
Speaker 1: time with your dad as an adult? No, not like that. No,
6:12
Speaker 1: you know, I'm going through a similar thing with my
6:15
Speaker 1: mom passing away last year. You know, I just wanted
6:19
Speaker 1: to be with my dad. I just you know, it's you.
6:22
Speaker 1: I worried about him because they were together for fifty
6:24
Speaker 1: five years and soulmates and all of that, and so
6:27
Speaker 1: I've been spending a lot of time with my dad
6:29
Speaker 1: and I'm loving it. Yeah, Like the other night, it
6:33
Speaker 1: was just so fun because he's like, hey, we should
6:35
Speaker 1: we should have a beer, and like, I've had one
6:38
Speaker 1: other beer with my dad in my life, and that
6:41
Speaker 1: was in Australia. When I brought him over there, and
6:44
Speaker 1: it just it's just been really really neat to have
6:48
Speaker 1: that time with him. And I think I could have
6:50
Speaker 1: easily made the mistake of going through my whole life
6:52
Speaker 1: and never having done it. So I'm really glad that
6:56
Speaker 1: you got that time with your dad.
6:57
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's incredible to prioritize, isn't it, And to
7:00
Speaker 2: realize the value and the knowledge and just the fun
7:04
Speaker 2: that comes from spending time with and family. They know
7:07
Speaker 2: how to push your buttons and they can, like you know,
7:11
Speaker 2: a few in special ways, but that makes it special.
7:15
Speaker 1: And that makes it memorable.
7:16
Speaker 2: And as much as sometimes it's annoying, Like there were
7:19
Speaker 2: so many days I was working on the new vehicle
7:21
Speaker 2: in Dad's shed and he'd like i'd drill a hole
7:24
Speaker 2: in something or sort of get to the point of
7:26
Speaker 2: no return and then he'd be like, oh, okay, I'm
7:28
Speaker 2: going to go now, see you later. He'd just like
7:31
Speaker 2: leave me in the deep end and vanish, which at
7:33
Speaker 2: the time was frustrating, but now in hindsight, it's like, Yeah,
7:37
Speaker 2: that's who my dad is, and it's funny, you know,
7:39
Speaker 2: And I'm happy we got to like experience that.
7:41
Speaker 1: And does he is he still worker? Is he retired? No,
7:44
Speaker 1: he retired a long time. Well, so then you get
7:47
Speaker 1: you know, you just really got to spend time with them.
7:49
Speaker 1: That's right. We cooked dinner together everything. That's fantastic. Yeah.
7:52
Speaker 1: And did it end up taking about that three months
7:54
Speaker 1: that you thought or did it take a little longer?
7:57
Speaker 1: I think I planned two months and it took about
7:59
Speaker 1: four months. And yeah, and COVID shipping delays was a
8:02
Speaker 1: big problem with that because Australia was so restricted. Well
8:06
Speaker 1: it's funny, actually when I planned the trip, Australia had
8:09
Speaker 1: no COVID. Australia had locked their borders of the whole country,
8:13
Speaker 1: didn't have a single case. So while how would you
8:15
Speaker 1: have been able to go in? You just had to quarantine?
8:17
Speaker 1: Is that the deal? Exactly? Yeah? I don't know if
8:19
Speaker 1: you remember that.
8:20
Speaker 2: I think you were in a hotel for two weeks,
8:22
Speaker 2: locked in a hotel room for two weeks, that's right,
8:24
Speaker 2: couldn't even open the windows, so no fresh air. But
8:27
Speaker 2: because of my Australian passport, getting in was no problem.
8:30
Speaker 1: I see, that makes sense. That makes sense. So then
8:33
Speaker 1: it took four months to build the vehicle. Let's talk
8:35
Speaker 1: a little bit about what the vehicle was that.
8:37
Speaker 2: You chose right and so a controversial choice for Australia.
8:41
Speaker 2: I went with a deep gladiator. And I did that
8:43
Speaker 2: for a number of reasons, like obviously there was so
8:46
Speaker 2: many vehicles to choose from over there, be it a
8:49
Speaker 2: diesel land cruiser at a high lux, a land rover
8:52
Speaker 2: like you know, kind of all of the vehicles that
8:55
Speaker 2: we all dream of are available. But I realized that
8:58
Speaker 2: sort of all of that had been done, or all
9:00
Speaker 2: of that was very well known. And in fact I
9:03
Speaker 2: met people that had land cruisers. They were so similarly
9:06
Speaker 2: outfitted the owners couldn't tell them apart. They had all
9:09
Speaker 2: bought exactly the same everything from the bumpers to the
9:13
Speaker 2: pop up roofs, suspension, and it sort of looked and
9:16
Speaker 2: felt like follow the leader, where they were all just
9:18
Speaker 2: sort of.
9:18
Speaker 1: Like copying each other.
9:20
Speaker 2: And I guess I've always been a bit of a
9:22
Speaker 2: person that maybe I'm a bit of an underdog or
9:24
Speaker 2: I'm a bit of a like I don't want to
9:25
Speaker 2: just follow the common path, And so I thought.
9:28
Speaker 1: I think you just follow your path. I mean, your
9:30
Speaker 1: first trip through South America, you took a short wheelbase,
9:34
Speaker 1: two door soft top brake, four cylinder, four cylinder Jeep
9:37
Speaker 1: regular was perfect, no fridge, of course, and it was fine,
9:42
Speaker 1: and you made it all the way to a Shia.
9:43
Speaker 2: So yeah, and so I wanted to incorporate that mentality
9:47
Speaker 2: on the new trip. And I thought, what if I
9:49
Speaker 2: go with something that hasn't really been tried in Australia
9:52
Speaker 2: and Jeep doesn't have the gay's reputation down Under, And
9:56
Speaker 2: I thought, Jeeps have always worked well for me around
9:59
Speaker 2: the world. So in the back of my mind, I
10:01
Speaker 2: knew that it was capable. I knew it was appropriate,
10:04
Speaker 2: but it was kind of fun to think, like I
10:06
Speaker 2: could show Australians that and I could demonstrate it. What
10:09
Speaker 2: better way to show that a Jeep is capable than,
10:12
Speaker 2: you know, to drive the carrying stock route, to drive
10:14
Speaker 2: the old teletrack.
10:16
Speaker 1: One of the things that you said before we hit
10:17
Speaker 1: record was that you couldn't get the diesel in Australia,
10:22
Speaker 1: so you actually bought a gasoline powered That's right.
10:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, in Australia you can only get the three point
10:28
Speaker 2: six gasoline engine and only the eight speed order.
10:31
Speaker 1: That's interesting.
10:34
Speaker 2: I guess Jeep Australia have just kind of limited down
10:37
Speaker 2: their parts network and yeah, sure what they want to import.
10:40
Speaker 1: So then what were some of the important modifications or
10:44
Speaker 1: the things that you felt worked really well on the jeep?
10:47
Speaker 2: So I wanted to get as remote as possible. That
10:49
Speaker 2: that was really my number one goal. And so for me,
10:52
Speaker 2: like carrying more fuel, so auxiliary fuel tank, carrying lots
10:55
Speaker 2: of drinking water. So I had a big water tank
10:57
Speaker 2: and filtration set up.
10:58
Speaker 1: How much fuel did you have on board? How many leaders?
11:01
Speaker 2: One hundred and fifty lids? Was the total in that vehicle? Yeah,
11:04
Speaker 2: that's good. Yeah, and that was all like under.
11:06
Speaker 1: The frame, you know. Yeah, that's great. So just no
11:08
Speaker 1: fast snow funnels. Note well, and you would have had
11:10
Speaker 1: to have had quite a few more jerries at least
11:13
Speaker 1: for the canning I did.
11:15
Speaker 2: I carried another five twenty leader jerries. Yeah, but I
11:18
Speaker 2: actually carried two hundred and fifty liters of fuel for
11:22
Speaker 2: the canning and for the Simpson Desert.
11:23
Speaker 1: Okay, so then you when you got into Kiniurachi, how
11:27
Speaker 1: much fuel did you have left? Actually a lot actually
11:30
Speaker 1: about one hundred liters. That's impressive. So so you found
11:34
Speaker 1: then that that three six as long as you weren't
11:37
Speaker 1: really running it hard on the highway, it was was
11:39
Speaker 1: pretty efficient. Then it actually did really well. What did
11:42
Speaker 1: you get for leaders per one hundred k when you
11:44
Speaker 1: do you.
11:44
Speaker 2: Remember on the Canning at twenty PSI, I remember it
11:48
Speaker 2: got thirteen miles a gallon, which that's not bad, not
11:52
Speaker 2: bad at all in like sand for.
11:53
Speaker 1: Thee for sure. Yeah, but it was an interesting you
11:56
Speaker 1: lose count of the sand dunes, that's for sure. Oh yeah,
11:59
Speaker 1: and it was interesting.
12:00
Speaker 2: I realized at one point, you know, we were driving
12:02
Speaker 2: a three month or a six month old Juke Gladiator,
12:05
Speaker 2: which sort of was.
12:06
Speaker 1: Only designed a couple of years before that. Yeah.
12:08
Speaker 2: Sure, it probably the most modern sophisticated vehicle ever to drive,
12:11
Speaker 2: the Canning, and so suspension wise, drive train wise.
12:16
Speaker 1: It just did the track easily. Yeah.
12:18
Speaker 2: Nothing. We never spun a tie, we never used low range.
12:22
Speaker 2: It just walked up every sand dune. And I think
12:25
Speaker 2: that's because it's a vehicle designed in twenty nineteen, not
12:29
Speaker 2: and it's a Jeep, not nineteen sixty. And it's a jeep.
12:32
Speaker 2: Jeeps are just capable vehicles. They're just meant to be
12:36
Speaker 2: capable off road, right, So I think the Canning was
12:39
Speaker 2: kind of just an easy. I remember when we did
12:42
Speaker 2: it in the seventy series. Now we were the first
12:45
Speaker 2: through the track for the year, so I was the
12:48
Speaker 2: last through. It was it was bad.
12:51
Speaker 1: We got at one time, we got stuck for fourteen hours.
12:55
Speaker 1: It was bad, broke wench lines. It was bad. I
12:58
Speaker 1: mean when I said bad, it means it was perfect. Well,
13:01
Speaker 1: and I had so much fun. But the funny thing
13:03
Speaker 1: about that is there was really you want to get
13:05
Speaker 1: stuck and you want it to be a challenge, but
13:06
Speaker 1: only so good. Well, and you were solo vehicle, so
13:09
Speaker 1: there's that different. And you had a winch on there. Yeah, okay, nice.
13:12
Speaker 1: And then how did you camp? Do you just camp
13:15
Speaker 1: in a ground ten or Yeah?
13:16
Speaker 2: So I decided if I was going to go to
13:18
Speaker 2: Australia and kind of like explore it for the first time,
13:21
Speaker 2: you know, and revisit my roots, I went with a swag,
13:25
Speaker 2: which is an Australian ground ten kind of like a
13:28
Speaker 2: canvas sleeping bag. Yeah, just really simple. We just roll
13:32
Speaker 2: it out on the ground that already has a mattress
13:33
Speaker 2: in it. Yeah, ready to go.
13:35
Speaker 1: They are really easy to use. The only time I
13:37
Speaker 1: found them to be a challenge is when you need
13:40
Speaker 1: a little bit more room. You would have to like it. Like,
13:43
Speaker 1: let's say you want to stand up and change your trousers, right,
13:46
Speaker 1: I mean there's nobody around, so you're not worried about
13:49
Speaker 1: your privacy. But it's more like you're worried about the flies.
13:53
Speaker 1: So you end up in this place where you're standing
13:55
Speaker 1: in your swag so that way you don't get dirt
13:58
Speaker 1: inside it. So you're your socks and you're trying to
14:01
Speaker 1: change out your pants and maybe your chonies or whatever,
14:04
Speaker 1: and there's flies all over you. Now that's the only
14:06
Speaker 1: thing I found weird was like it's tough. I wonder
14:09
Speaker 1: how how did the Australians deal with that? They just
14:11
Speaker 1: maybe I don't really know it. I think it's a
14:13
Speaker 1: weird transition moment.
14:15
Speaker 2: It's like a fairway the camping option, Yeah, as long
14:17
Speaker 2: as it didn't rhine, as long as the flies went
14:19
Speaker 2: too bad. Yeah, the swag was adequate, but I think.
14:22
Speaker 1: Did you have bad flies on the canning? Yeah?
14:25
Speaker 2: The canning in the Seemson Diota bad enough for me
14:27
Speaker 2: to put like a bug nail out of my head.
14:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did too. And it's it's just it's you
14:33
Speaker 1: kind of have to have the bugnet.
14:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the white getting the corner of your eyes
14:36
Speaker 2: and then it's unbelievable.
14:38
Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember one time I was so exhausted by
14:41
Speaker 1: the flies, I took my drone and I just set
14:44
Speaker 1: it over my head, so I just stood underneath the drone.
14:47
Speaker 1: The blades was no flies because there's so much wind right,
14:52
Speaker 1: So it's like I had like a two minute respite
14:56
Speaker 1: from the flies with my drone just parked over my head.
14:59
Speaker 1: It was the only way I could get enough airflow
15:02
Speaker 1: to keep the bugs out of there.
15:03
Speaker 2: And I feel like these stories about how bad the
15:05
Speaker 2: flies are, I don't think any story.
15:08
Speaker 1: You would able to do it justice. Hearing it, you're like, ah,
15:11
Speaker 1: surely they weren't that bad. I know.
15:13
Speaker 2: I think you have to actually leave it. You do,
15:15
Speaker 2: and then you get to that moment where you're like,
15:17
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is worse than I ever imagined possible.
15:22
Speaker 1: Well, and you read some of the early accounts of
15:24
Speaker 1: the explorers that that landed in Australia, and they would
15:28
Speaker 1: talk about the Aboriginal, you know, standing on one leg
15:32
Speaker 1: with their other leg kind of foot cooked up to
15:35
Speaker 1: their hooked up to their knee, and that they would
15:37
Speaker 1: hardly have any flies on them. And I don't know
15:40
Speaker 1: if it's because they stand perfectly still or there's something
15:43
Speaker 1: they've learned something or adapted in some way. And then
15:46
Speaker 1: of course that whoever the you know, the Kimberly or
15:48
Speaker 1: whoever the explorer was that landed, was like all of
15:52
Speaker 1: the flies descended on them. You know, it's interesting. There's
15:56
Speaker 1: a couple there's a couple of really interesting accounts of
15:59
Speaker 1: it was consistent. The explorers would be like, my lord,
16:02
Speaker 1: the flies, you know, yeah, unbelievable.
16:05
Speaker 2: It feels like to define the interior of Australia. You know,
16:08
Speaker 2: you could say hot, you could say sand, there's a
16:10
Speaker 2: few words. Now you have to say flies. That that
16:13
Speaker 2: is like an adjective that describes Yeah, it's really unbelievable.
16:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really wild. And then the fact that they
16:19
Speaker 1: don't really know how many camel are out there. Somewhere
16:21
Speaker 1: between one hundred thousand and a million, they think, yeah,
16:24
Speaker 1: and have you heard other numbers in that.
16:27
Speaker 2: I think I read between a million and one point
16:29
Speaker 2: three yeah, so it's got to be more. But I
16:31
Speaker 2: think you're right. The distances are so vast. They just
16:34
Speaker 2: have no idea we saw them every day on camp.
16:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's so cool. So you get the vehicle finished,
16:42
Speaker 1: and was the goal to kind of circumnavigate Australia or
16:45
Speaker 1: what was your what did you want to achieve in
16:47
Speaker 1: your trip? Yeah?
16:48
Speaker 2: My goal was to get as remote as possible, so
16:52
Speaker 2: the most remote parts of Australia, the furthest away from civilization.
16:56
Speaker 2: I figured, if I had the ultimate vehicle and I
16:59
Speaker 2: had the time, you know, I can go and see
17:01
Speaker 2: the Sydney Opera House another day.
17:02
Speaker 1: Yeah.
17:03
Speaker 2: Sure, it's pretty easy to do. But driving across the
17:06
Speaker 2: Simpson Desert that takes real plane.
17:08
Speaker 1: And which track did you take for that? I took
17:10
Speaker 1: the Maddigan Line nice, awesome. Yeah, that's got a bunch
17:13
Speaker 1: of dunes too. Yeah, one thousand and some, which it
17:16
Speaker 1: felt like the Canning had a thousand. I think the
17:18
Speaker 1: Canning maybe has more. Yeah.
17:20
Speaker 2: But the thing that got me about the Simpson is
17:22
Speaker 2: the dunes run directly north south, Yes, and the track
17:25
Speaker 2: runs directly east west.
17:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're up and down every single dude. You
17:29
Speaker 1: directly attack it, straight up, straight down, Yeah, which is
17:32
Speaker 1: so cool and it was weird.
17:33
Speaker 2: It was one of those tracks where after the first
17:35
Speaker 2: ten dunes you could just put the video on repeat
17:38
Speaker 2: actually for about five days, you wouldn't know that you
17:42
Speaker 2: hadn't weren't just driving over the same June on repeat.
17:44
Speaker 1: You have found yourself now remote in Australia like you
17:49
Speaker 1: hoped for. Yeah, where did you find? What did you
17:52
Speaker 1: find when you were there? About yourself? For about what
17:55
Speaker 1: you had hoped that you would achieve? Was there anything,
17:57
Speaker 1: any revelations that you had?
17:59
Speaker 2: I guess I have a lot of deep seeded kind
18:01
Speaker 2: of cultural things or emotions or feelings that like I
18:04
Speaker 2: wasn't even aware of good like even just just sitting
18:07
Speaker 2: out at night and looking at the stars and you've
18:10
Speaker 2: seen the stars in the Southern Hemisphere. They are just
18:13
Speaker 2: next level.
18:15
Speaker 1: And they're foreign because I grew up in the Northern Hemisphere,
18:19
Speaker 1: so they're.
18:19
Speaker 2: Foreign for you, yes, But the feeling of familiarity for me,
18:24
Speaker 2: I felt like I was at home. It just looked right,
18:27
Speaker 2: even though I don't remember the name of the constellations
18:30
Speaker 2: or sure and it had been twenty years, you know,
18:33
Speaker 2: every night.
18:33
Speaker 1: When I would look up and see the Southern Cross, Yeah,
18:35
Speaker 1: that one's special.
18:36
Speaker 2: Inside there was something in me that just went, yeah,
18:39
Speaker 2: everything's right with the world. I know, and it didn't
18:42
Speaker 2: feel like Africa, where I knew I was far from home.
18:45
Speaker 2: Even the remotest part of Australia felt familiar and felt
18:48
Speaker 2: the home, like you were supposed to be there.
18:50
Speaker 1: Yeah.
18:51
Speaker 2: And then of course there were just the wonderful things
18:53
Speaker 2: where you know, I'd roll into a town and like
18:55
Speaker 2: someone had offer me a meat pie and I'd be like, yes,
18:58
Speaker 2: I would love that. Say would you like a cup
19:00
Speaker 2: of tea? Yeah, I really I would like So just
19:05
Speaker 2: just a million little things like that made me realize
19:08
Speaker 2: I am very Australian.
19:10
Speaker 1: And those roadhouses, they they have a like a cultural
19:15
Speaker 1: component to them. They really are unusual because somehow in
19:19
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere and they need to be there
19:22
Speaker 1: because that's where the gas station is, and there's usually
19:25
Speaker 1: a little bit of accommodation, sometimes a place to camp,
19:28
Speaker 1: and you've got to have beer and probably food. Yeah,
19:30
Speaker 1: that's right, and usually the food's not that bad and
19:33
Speaker 1: the beer's usually colder than you'd think. Yep. Kind of
19:36
Speaker 1: remember some of the ones like along the Unada Track
19:39
Speaker 1: and all that, and they were the Star Wars bar.
19:41
Speaker 1: They were like definitely out there. It was wild, and
19:44
Speaker 1: the characters pink Hotel. You're probably think that's the one. Yeah, yeah,
19:48
Speaker 1: that's and yeah, a lot of them. They're quirky, they're
19:51
Speaker 1: super quirky, and they celebrate it. Yeah yeah, they just
19:54
Speaker 1: embrace embrace that oh in those Okay, So how did
19:59
Speaker 1: the jeep fair with the corrugations? Again?
20:02
Speaker 2: It was kind of one of those things where I
20:04
Speaker 2: had AEVs two and a half inch suspension on it,
20:07
Speaker 2: and I guess it's one of the newest designed, you know,
20:10
Speaker 2: latest and greatest technology. It actually ate up the corrugations
20:15
Speaker 2: in a sense like that or nothing.
20:16
Speaker 1: And what was the diameter of tire you had on there?
20:18
Speaker 1: I had thirty three inch ties. Okay, so that's pretty
20:21
Speaker 1: close to what a lot of the land cruisers are.
20:23
Speaker 1: I've always been curious and if anybody's listening, that's like
20:27
Speaker 1: an engineer that could respond to this question. But you know,
20:32
Speaker 1: every vehicle that goes across those tracks and Australia, they're
20:35
Speaker 1: pretty much the same wheelbase because they're all the same
20:38
Speaker 1: land cruiser. So I want and the wheelbase on the
20:40
Speaker 1: Gladiator is really long, and I wonder if it just
20:43
Speaker 1: creates a different frequency that helps a little bit with that.
20:46
Speaker 1: I wonder that definitely could be it.
20:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I something that occurred to me along the
20:51
Speaker 2: way is that vehicles in Australia, they're allowed to upgrade
20:54
Speaker 2: the GV do you are the gross vehicle weight, right,
20:58
Speaker 2: And so all of them do, and they all liked
21:00
Speaker 2: the land cruisers. They up them to about a ten
21:03
Speaker 2: pound gross people weight rating, and even then I met
21:06
Speaker 2: plenty of people that had exceeded that, sure, And so
21:09
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it is that these vehicles
21:11
Speaker 2: are just immensely heavy, sure, and then so that makes
21:14
Speaker 2: the corregations worse and makes them handle the corrogations worse. Wow,
21:18
Speaker 2: Whereas a gladiator it doesn't have the highest payload, doesn't
21:21
Speaker 2: have the highest weight rating. So I did everything I
21:23
Speaker 2: could to keep it light. So I think part of
21:25
Speaker 2: that was we were just a light vehicle comparatively to
21:28
Speaker 2: what's out there.
21:29
Speaker 1: And then did you find yourself airing down a lot
21:31
Speaker 1: on the corrugations.
21:33
Speaker 2: I aired down often to maybe about twenty five twenty
21:36
Speaker 2: six ps. Not low low like not sand low, just
21:40
Speaker 2: lower than kind of highway press.
21:42
Speaker 1: It was the only way I could get those seventy
21:43
Speaker 1: series to be tolerable on those corrugations was like eighteen
21:48
Speaker 1: to twenty PSI.
21:49
Speaker 2: And we had a couple of revelations as well. We
21:51
Speaker 2: drove the GiB River Road, which is notorious worse corregations
21:54
Speaker 2: in Australia, you know, shreds, tie as all of that.
21:57
Speaker 2: And we were with some friends who were in seventy
21:59
Speaker 2: series and we've been driving, you know, for the day,
22:01
Speaker 2: and just Katie and I and my partner was with me.
22:04
Speaker 2: We were chatting along the way and when we got
22:06
Speaker 2: to camp, the other people in the seventies were like, oh, no,
22:09
Speaker 2: we can't talk while we're driving. It's too loud inside
22:13
Speaker 2: the cabin even to have a conversation. So actually they
22:16
Speaker 2: were wearing their own earbuds and just both listening to
22:19
Speaker 2: their own separate music to drown out the noise of
22:22
Speaker 2: the cabin. And here Katie and I, we've got like
22:24
Speaker 2: heated leather seats and like bluetooth.
22:26
Speaker 1: And you know, he did steering wheels.
22:29
Speaker 2: It just made me realize how different our experiences were, Yeah,
22:33
Speaker 2: because we were essentially in like a luxury four wheel
22:35
Speaker 2: drive and they were in a tractor from nineteen seventy.
22:38
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that it's so difficult oftentimes for
22:42
Speaker 1: people to acknowledge is that every vehicle has its specialty.
22:46
Speaker 1: And the land Cruiser it has one goal in life,
22:50
Speaker 1: and that's to be durable, right, and the second goal
22:53
Speaker 1: is to be reliable. Yeah, whereas a geep its first
22:56
Speaker 1: goal is to be capable. Yes. So it's just a
22:59
Speaker 1: different vehicle. And there are going to be times when
23:03
Speaker 1: you wish more than anything in the world you were
23:04
Speaker 1: driving that Gladiator, and there's probably going to be other
23:07
Speaker 1: days you wish more than anything in the world you
23:09
Speaker 1: were driving.
23:09
Speaker 2: A seventy series and especially once it has let's say,
23:13
Speaker 2: four hundred thousand miles.
23:14
Speaker 1: Sure, exactly. I'm pretty sure the land Cruise is going
23:17
Speaker 1: to be doing no question. In the Gladiator, Yeah, no question.
23:20
Speaker 1: Yeah you did, right though. They basically have different design goals.
23:23
Speaker 1: They really do, and I think it's just embrace the difference.
23:26
Speaker 1: And it's like that people try to compare stuff that's
23:28
Speaker 1: really not a comparison. Yeah, it's like it's not a competition,
23:32
Speaker 1: you know, I guess no.
23:33
Speaker 2: And the like.
23:33
Speaker 1: They both excel at different things, different things exactly. Yeah.
23:37
Speaker 2: So, and it was fun to have that comparison for
23:39
Speaker 2: your life, you know. Oh, you don't really get to
23:42
Speaker 2: compare a Gladiator to a seventy because they just aren't
23:44
Speaker 2: any around, right, So it was just fun. And every
23:47
Speaker 2: day it was a different comparison, whether it was a
23:49
Speaker 2: Highlux or a Zuzu Dmax, or every day you got
23:52
Speaker 2: to put it next to some other ehicle they're like, oh,
23:55
Speaker 2: look how much longer it is, or look look at
23:57
Speaker 2: you know, whatever aspect it was that was interesting.
23:59
Speaker 1: And how did people respond to the Gladiator in remote
24:03
Speaker 1: places where they shocked. They were shocked, they were legitimately shocked.
24:07
Speaker 1: I love that, and lots of them that had to
24:08
Speaker 1: have been fun for you. It was really funny.
24:11
Speaker 2: And lots of them had never even seen one, because
24:13
Speaker 2: when I bought it, that'd only be on sale for
24:15
Speaker 2: about three months in Australia.
24:16
Speaker 1: Got it. So what I think worked really well for us.
24:19
Speaker 2: To my partner Katie, She's Canadian and so obviously has
24:22
Speaker 2: a Canadian accent, and so if I let her get
24:25
Speaker 2: out of the jeep first and start talking, everyone would
24:27
Speaker 2: just assume she was American and that we were obviously
24:30
Speaker 2: Americans in this big American car. And then I would
24:33
Speaker 2: get out and start talking, and then they would just.
24:35
Speaker 1: Be so confused.
24:37
Speaker 2: Why would you do that, you betraying your own people.
24:41
Speaker 1: It's like, well, Toyota had a famous ad in Australia.
24:45
Speaker 1: I love it. I still love it to this day.
24:47
Speaker 1: It's like going into Disneyland and all the roads come
24:49
Speaker 1: to this toll booth and if you were in a
24:52
Speaker 1: land cruise or they'd let you through the toll booth.
24:54
Speaker 1: It's a famous Toyota ad that they ran in Australia
24:57
Speaker 1: and if you didn't have a Toyota land cruiser, they'd
24:59
Speaker 1: send you back to Sydney or whatever. So I think
25:02
Speaker 1: it is part of their culture. They just believe that
25:04
Speaker 1: the land cruiser was the only way. It is the way. Yeah,
25:08
Speaker 1: talk to me about some of your highlights from the trip.
25:11
Speaker 1: Was what was the moment, the one moment on the
25:14
Speaker 1: trip that is that you think about often. It was
25:17
Speaker 1: incredibly special. That was kind of a takeaway for you. Yeah.
25:21
Speaker 2: For me traveling the Canning Stock rat with my dad,
25:24
Speaker 2: that was he's seventy two years old.
25:26
Speaker 1: Sure, he kind of realizes he'll.
25:28
Speaker 2: Never get to do that kind of thing, certainly not
25:30
Speaker 2: on his own, and to go with his son's pretty special.
25:34
Speaker 2: And you know, it's it's intense and we had to
25:36
Speaker 2: keep moving because we were right at the end of
25:38
Speaker 2: the season and I knew like there were thunderstorms in
25:41
Speaker 2: the north on the track and we were heading north
25:43
Speaker 2: and it was like, if we don't hurry up and
25:45
Speaker 2: get through, we're not going to get through. And so
25:47
Speaker 2: we had one day We're like massive thunderstorms, like building
25:51
Speaker 2: on the horizon, building, building, building, and we could see
25:53
Speaker 2: it coming towards us, and for about ten minutes we
25:56
Speaker 2: had like torrential rain, hail, thunder, lightning, and the lightning
26:01
Speaker 2: was so much on top of us that we need
26:03
Speaker 2: to find a tree to like park under. Of course
26:05
Speaker 2: there aren't any trees, no, so there was none of that.
26:08
Speaker 2: But then there was about two feet of rain on
26:10
Speaker 2: the track like flowing.
26:11
Speaker 1: It was like a river.
26:12
Speaker 2: And so to just see how quickly it changed, and
26:15
Speaker 2: to think about like how we were responding to each
26:18
Speaker 2: other and talking through it, and I have it on
26:20
Speaker 2: video and it's just just a really like intense moment
26:23
Speaker 2: of like, oh my god, like this could go really
26:26
Speaker 2: badly and we get stuck. We're like, we'll be really stuck.
26:30
Speaker 2: And then when we get through and we're kind of
26:31
Speaker 2: celebrating and we're like, oh, that was close.
26:34
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah. And the one challenge that I found
26:37
Speaker 1: was once the track gets flooded, because we got into
26:40
Speaker 1: several areas where the track was flooded. It was so
26:42
Speaker 1: difficult to know if you were on the track you
26:45
Speaker 1: actually didn't sink because it's so compacted. Right, Like I
26:48
Speaker 1: got off the tracks, like I just zigged when I
26:51
Speaker 1: should have zagged, and I got stuck. And that was
26:53
Speaker 1: when we ended up, you know, fourteen hours trying to
26:56
Speaker 1: get out. But it was very difficult when it got wet,
26:59
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, And it just feels like it adds
27:01
Speaker 1: to the intensity of the whole thing. You know. I
27:03
Speaker 1: was already the most remote I've ever been in my
27:05
Speaker 1: whole life, you know, and you were solo, which that's impression.
27:09
Speaker 2: And so you know, kind of all of the things,
27:10
Speaker 2: like the most fuel I've ever carried, the most water,
27:12
Speaker 2: the most planning. So I was already I felt like
27:16
Speaker 2: approaching my limit of what I'm capable of. And then
27:19
Speaker 2: we added like a whole another dimension of like, oh
27:22
Speaker 2: now it's getting really wet and muddy, and then it
27:25
Speaker 2: was like have I bitten off more than I can choose?
27:28
Speaker 2: And then you're getting that exciting zone of like I
27:31
Speaker 2: think I've got this, but let's be careful and be
27:35
Speaker 2: aware and like good decision making, you know. So there's
27:38
Speaker 2: the water here, because like you said, if something goes wrong,
27:40
Speaker 2: it can be really bad.
27:42
Speaker 1: And I remember, like the worst flooding areas were just
27:46
Speaker 1: south and you went from south to north. That's right, okay,
27:49
Speaker 1: So as I remember, the worst areas of lowland kind
27:52
Speaker 1: of flooding was south of kiner Warachi. So hopefully you
27:56
Speaker 1: didn't get into a lot of that when you got
27:57
Speaker 1: into the rain where it was really muddy and big lakes.
28:01
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, we encountered big lakes. We track the
28:05
Speaker 1: day it rained.
28:06
Speaker 2: Actually later in the day, we had to drive across
28:08
Speaker 2: a couple of kind of like dry lake beds or
28:10
Speaker 2: what normally dry, and they were damp, and I was
28:13
Speaker 2: hyper worried.
28:14
Speaker 1: We were just going to sink to the frame, and
28:16
Speaker 1: we just didn't. That's great.
28:18
Speaker 2: Even though it was wet, it was firm, and so
28:20
Speaker 2: we just went straight to the other side.
28:21
Speaker 1: And did you camp on Lake Aerodrome In the beginning
28:25
Speaker 1: of the track, it drove one of the dry lake
28:28
Speaker 1: beds in the beginning, it's called Lake aerodrome. I don't
28:30
Speaker 1: remember that one. It was just I just you've talked
28:33
Speaker 1: about the stars and it was warm, and I slept
28:37
Speaker 1: on the top of the land cruiser on the rack
28:39
Speaker 1: this incredible dry lake bed and the stars were just
28:43
Speaker 1: from from horizon to horizon. It was incredible, just incredible.
28:47
Speaker 1: It's a special thing to see, isn't it.
28:49
Speaker 2: And that that idea of like the Milky Way is
28:52
Speaker 2: so bright and you don't need a headlamp no to
28:55
Speaker 2: be outside.
28:55
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was just it was just incredible.
28:58
Speaker 2: And there's no planes flying over head, there's like there's
29:01
Speaker 2: no kind of interruptions.
29:02
Speaker 1: And there's a lot more. I think a lot of
29:04
Speaker 1: people consider that the Canning Stock is just this big
29:08
Speaker 1: desert crossing, which in many ways it is. But I
29:11
Speaker 1: was shocked by how many micro climates, how many geologic formations.
29:17
Speaker 1: What's that one you're going along the track and you
29:19
Speaker 1: kind of go back in and camp in this little
29:22
Speaker 1: canyon with that has the aboriginal art and stuff. What
29:25
Speaker 1: do you remember the name of that one? I know
29:26
Speaker 1: exactly what you mean, but that's a really special spot. Yeah,
29:29
Speaker 1: there's some amazing like rock formations and almost mountains backing
29:33
Speaker 1: there and then water. I mean, how many wells are
29:35
Speaker 1: there along there? Forty something, well, fifty fifty one, got it?
29:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, But actually, because we were there so late in
29:41
Speaker 2: the season, virtually.
29:42
Speaker 1: All the wells would dry it.
29:43
Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah, well they just had like really stagnant, murky, unusable.
29:48
Speaker 1: Yeah.
29:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess that's a different experience from the
29:51
Speaker 2: start of the season to the end of the season.
29:52
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's interesting. All right. So the canning stock
29:55
Speaker 1: was a highlight. Was there an experience that would be
29:57
Speaker 1: less than common where maybe the less right I would
30:01
Speaker 1: have no idea where you were that you were like, wow,
30:03
Speaker 1: that was a discovery, like a place that you went
30:06
Speaker 1: to that not a lot of people go to. Do
30:08
Speaker 1: you go to Kimberly as well? I did go to
30:10
Speaker 1: the I've never gone to the Kimberly and I've heard
30:12
Speaker 1: it's just fascinating up there. It's staggering in it's like
30:16
Speaker 1: emptiness and it's vastness. Yeah, it's immense. Yeah, I was.
30:19
Speaker 1: I was looking and there was like it was over
30:21
Speaker 1: a thousand kilometers just to get I think from broom
30:25
Speaker 1: broom to like with this one spot I wanted to
30:28
Speaker 1: go to. It's like a thousand kilometers and it's just
30:30
Speaker 1: this little corner of Australia's right, Yeah on the map,
30:33
Speaker 1: it's fairly even like noticeable.
30:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's a long distance and there's bowl ab
30:37
Speaker 2: trees up there, so they looked just like the bubble
30:39
Speaker 2: of abs from Africa and you're the red to the
30:42
Speaker 2: dust the sun. Every single day, I just pinched myself
30:45
Speaker 2: and thought I was in Africa. It was staggering, and
30:49
Speaker 2: you know, that's my home country and I didn't even
30:51
Speaker 2: recognize it.
30:52
Speaker 1: And then did you do anything up north of cans
30:56
Speaker 1: or anything like that?
30:56
Speaker 2: Did?
30:57
Speaker 1: Yeah?
30:57
Speaker 2: We drove all the way up and drove the old
30:58
Speaker 2: telegraph track. Yeah, which was the most intense four wheel
31:02
Speaker 2: driving I've ever done in my life. And that was
31:04
Speaker 2: that was really special because it's a really social thing
31:06
Speaker 2: to do. There are many other vehicles around you, and
31:10
Speaker 2: some people are driving everything with their foot on the floor,
31:12
Speaker 2: and some people are struggling and kind of barely able
31:15
Speaker 2: to winch through things, and then like everything in between,
31:18
Speaker 2: and every night people are camping and swimming in the
31:20
Speaker 2: rivers and partying and so it's a real like some
31:24
Speaker 2: of the river crossings you get to, people have set
31:26
Speaker 2: up their deck chairs and for two days they will
31:28
Speaker 2: just sit there and watch other vehicles come through, because
31:31
Speaker 2: like ten percent of vehicles will just sink at the
31:34
Speaker 2: flood and then there's carnage. And some of the crocks
31:37
Speaker 2: and those rivers too are.
31:39
Speaker 1: Probably not probably not, probably not okay, which I learned
31:43
Speaker 1: in Northern Australia is good enough for that'll work. Probably not,
31:47
Speaker 1: because those crocks are gigantic. Yeah, I mean, some of
31:51
Speaker 1: the photographs that I've seen of those crocks that they've captured,
31:54
Speaker 1: it's unfathomable.
31:56
Speaker 2: I think, like sixteen eighteen, twenty feet is like common
31:59
Speaker 2: they exist, and in the olden days that I'm more
32:02
Speaker 2: like twenty.
32:02
Speaker 1: Eight feet maybe feet. I know. Yeah, some of the
32:05
Speaker 1: photos they look like their photoshop, but of course they're
32:08
Speaker 1: not photo.
32:09
Speaker 2: We even at one point we went to a visited
32:11
Speaker 2: centa somewhere and I had a replica of the big
32:14
Speaker 2: crop that used to leave nearby, and you know, it's
32:16
Speaker 2: make out a fiberglass or whatever, and just being near
32:19
Speaker 2: it was intimidating, terrifying, and you're like this, I mean,
32:22
Speaker 2: it's a piece of fiberglass. It can't hurt me, but
32:24
Speaker 2: it's fully a dinosaur in every sense of the word.
32:27
Speaker 1: It's it must just be like you probably experiences a
32:30
Speaker 1: lot in Africa, but you know that there are these
32:33
Speaker 1: components of our human DNA that are still meant to
32:36
Speaker 1: protect us from getting eaten and they still work. Like
32:39
Speaker 1: the first time that I heard a lion roar, like
32:41
Speaker 1: and I have no hair on my head, that all
32:43
Speaker 1: of the non hair stood up on my neck and
32:47
Speaker 1: on my head. Its like I knew I didn't I'd
32:49
Speaker 1: never heard a lion roar before, but I had no
32:52
Speaker 1: question of what that was. I knew exactly what it was.
32:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what it represents, Like how long has it
32:57
Speaker 2: been since our DNA even was in Africa?
32:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we know, we do know. It is incredible.
33:02
Speaker 1: And and there's something about a crock that's the same
33:05
Speaker 1: because the croc you know, like lions are fairly bright,
33:08
Speaker 1: like they can like assess risk and like do I
33:11
Speaker 1: really want to take this two legged thing on? And
33:13
Speaker 1: what do they represent? And they sometimes they have guns
33:16
Speaker 1: and you can tell that they have some thought process.
33:19
Speaker 1: The crock, you are just protein.
33:21
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And we read we were told crocodiles
33:24
Speaker 2: are classified as indiscriminate opportunistic eaters, so they they will
33:29
Speaker 2: eat anything, and they will just wait until the opportunity
33:32
Speaker 2: comes along. So they will literally just sit on the
33:35
Speaker 2: bottom of the river for like days and days and days,
33:37
Speaker 2: and then a kangaroo comes down to take a drink. Sweet,
33:40
Speaker 2: there's there's dinner, or a person happens to like, you know,
33:44
Speaker 2: go to wash their hands. They're like, oh, this is lucky.
33:46
Speaker 2: And they have got all the patients in the world. Unbelievable,
33:50
Speaker 2: and they will eat anything.
33:51
Speaker 1: And the power that they've got to yeah, I think, well,
33:53
Speaker 1: I think they get ahold of you. That's there is
33:55
Speaker 1: no chance. So you you did, I mean you literally
33:58
Speaker 1: did all of the really good stuff. Now did you
34:02
Speaker 1: make it to Tasmania? I did. Yeah, I spent ten
34:04
Speaker 1: weeks in Tasmania. So now there's the I did part
34:07
Speaker 1: of that track where you go into Tasmania and it's
34:11
Speaker 1: on the western side and it goes back to like
34:14
Speaker 1: an old town where they had some mines and beautiful
34:17
Speaker 1: old cemetery. It's the most difficult for drive track. Oh yeah,
34:22
Speaker 1: I think I know the one. You mean. Yeah, I
34:24
Speaker 1: did not tackle that because it can be really muddy
34:27
Speaker 1: and deep and I only didly half of it because
34:29
Speaker 1: I was concerned about the mud. But that was beautiful.
34:33
Speaker 1: Tasmania was just incredible.
34:35
Speaker 2: When you asked me earlier about things that shocked me
34:37
Speaker 2: about Australia, I was gonna say Tasmania, the old growth forest,
34:41
Speaker 2: the mountains. I had no idea the Tasmania has legitimate mountains.
34:46
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like even you know, I live in British Columbia.
34:49
Speaker 2: I lived in the Yukon. In Tasmania, I was impressed.
34:52
Speaker 2: These are serious mountain snow capped, you know, jagged peaks,
34:57
Speaker 2: and then old growth trees, probably the oldest trees in
34:59
Speaker 2: the world are in Tasmania and the wilderness there. It
35:03
Speaker 2: was more untouched than anything I've seen before.
35:06
Speaker 1: I found that too, and I think I think that
35:08
Speaker 1: it was populated late enough that people there were starting
35:11
Speaker 1: to be some environmental protections in place in Australia, so
35:14
Speaker 1: it just never got ruined. That's right. It seems like that.
35:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the whole Southwest corner there are no roads,
35:21
Speaker 2: there is no access of any kind.
35:23
Speaker 1: It is just pure where it still whole. Fingers crossed
35:26
Speaker 1: that there's a Tasmanian devil down there. It's not devil
35:29
Speaker 1: Tasmanian tiger tiger. Yeah. People, I mean you'll hear the
35:33
Speaker 1: occasional rumor that they found one, but oh man, wouldn't
35:36
Speaker 1: that be cool? What an amazing creature and the fact
35:39
Speaker 1: that human beings screwed that up. It's like that thing
35:42
Speaker 1: is so cool that when the jaws open, unbelievable.
35:45
Speaker 2: And a marsupial with a pouch like a kangaroo, but
35:48
Speaker 2: the pouch is actually backwards. Oh that I didn't Yeah,
35:51
Speaker 2: the pouch opens the other way. The only marsupial like that,
35:55
Speaker 2: and the only canti is marsupial. So just just you know,
35:58
Speaker 2: in Australia, in its exotic countimals, it just is incredible.
36:02
Speaker 2: And it was really fun for me because in my
36:04
Speaker 2: whole life, I think I'd only ever seen like one platypus,
36:08
Speaker 2: But now that I had time in Tasmania, we would
36:11
Speaker 2: just sit on the side of a creek and watch
36:12
Speaker 2: a platypus for like an hour. Oh and they're incredible
36:16
Speaker 2: little creatures and they see you when they get timid,
36:19
Speaker 2: and then ten minutes later they come back, and then
36:21
Speaker 2: timiute and then soon enough they're sort of every three
36:23
Speaker 2: or four minutes they're coming up to have to look
36:24
Speaker 2: at you and it just those experiences that I guess
36:28
Speaker 2: as an Australian I've seen David Attenborough talk about it,
36:31
Speaker 2: but then to actually go and leave it it felt
36:33
Speaker 2: like the right thing to do well.
36:34
Speaker 1: And that's That's one of the things that you've done
36:37
Speaker 1: on your trips, Stan is you you work really really
36:40
Speaker 1: hard between your trips to make enough money to be
36:45
Speaker 1: fully present in the adventure. You know, just from speaking
36:49
Speaker 1: from my own experience, I have never been able to
36:51
Speaker 1: do that. I well, that's I should correct myself. I
36:54
Speaker 1: have never done that. I've made a choice to not
36:56
Speaker 1: do it. So I'll work really really hard between trips,
37:00
Speaker 1: and then I work really really hard on the trip. Yeah,
37:03
Speaker 1: and I never give myself that chance to sit at
37:05
Speaker 1: the creek's edge and watch the platypus for an hour.
37:09
Speaker 1: And maybe I've had moments like that. But that's one
37:13
Speaker 1: of the things that I admire most about your travels
37:16
Speaker 1: is that you have found ways to be fully in
37:19
Speaker 1: the moment and that people don't normally figure that out
37:22
Speaker 1: until much later in life. And that was something that
37:25
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, was how did you get
37:27
Speaker 1: to that point where you have right now, you have
37:30
Speaker 1: a cell phone with a simcar that's only going to
37:32
Speaker 1: last thirty days. The last time that I met you,
37:35
Speaker 1: we had to coordinate over email because you didn't have
37:37
Speaker 1: a phone. And that's something I admire about you. But
37:40
Speaker 1: how did you get to that point where you really
37:42
Speaker 1: were able to be present, to be in the now?
37:46
Speaker 1: What happened to get you there?
37:48
Speaker 2: I think it was a combination of factors. But I
37:51
Speaker 2: finished all my school in Australia, so like high school,
37:53
Speaker 2: straight into university, and then I was totally fed up,
37:57
Speaker 2: and so I came out to the States and I
37:58
Speaker 2: worked in California at a ski resort, and I just
38:01
Speaker 2: made a handful of people at that ski resort who
38:03
Speaker 2: they hadn't been to university, and they weren't taking life
38:06
Speaker 2: very seriously, but they were having a good time. They understood.
38:10
Speaker 2: They like, let's just take frisbees and go and throw
38:13
Speaker 2: frisbees in the park for half the day. It's free,
38:16
Speaker 2: and we're going to have fun and we're going to laugh. Well,
38:19
Speaker 2: let's hike to the top of the ski resort and
38:20
Speaker 2: snowboard down before it even opens in the morning, so
38:23
Speaker 2: we can get the best snow before anyone who paid,
38:25
Speaker 2: you know, to ride the chair lift. Sure, and so
38:28
Speaker 2: I guess maybe these days people would call it like
38:29
Speaker 2: a life hack or they had figured out how to
38:32
Speaker 2: have a lot of fun without a lot of money,
38:35
Speaker 2: And so I had that in my mind, and then
38:37
Speaker 2: I ran out of money. So I went back to
38:39
Speaker 2: an engineering job. And sitting at that engineering job, some
38:42
Speaker 2: of my coworkers were in their sixties. And after about
38:45
Speaker 2: a year, I just realized I was looking at a
38:47
Speaker 2: mirror they were living. That was my life one percent.
38:52
Speaker 2: I was on that track. You know, I had a
38:54
Speaker 2: pretty good job. My bank account was going up every
38:56
Speaker 2: two weeks. I didn't really have much stress or much
38:58
Speaker 2: to worry about. I could have gone out and bought
39:00
Speaker 2: a brand new sports car like I could have done
39:03
Speaker 2: a lot of you know, consumerism things. But the trade
39:07
Speaker 2: off was I didn't get to have that fun that
39:09
Speaker 2: those guys in California had taught me about. And it actually,
39:12
Speaker 2: in hindsight, like it scared me to my bones. I'm
39:16
Speaker 2: terrified that I'm looking at myself and the years between
39:20
Speaker 2: now and that are just going to go buy in
39:22
Speaker 2: the blink of an eye. And I was so terrified
39:24
Speaker 2: that it motivated me to like quit my job, sell
39:27
Speaker 2: all my stuff, and hit the road and drive to Alaska,
39:30
Speaker 2: like because up until then, I'd always dreamed of going
39:32
Speaker 2: to Alaska.
39:33
Speaker 1: Mom and I read like White Fang.
39:35
Speaker 2: Together and all of the Wild, and I was enamored
39:40
Speaker 2: or like obsessed with this idea of like, I want
39:42
Speaker 2: to go and see Alaska. I'd never been there before,
39:44
Speaker 2: I didn't really know much about it. I guess I
39:47
Speaker 2: knew it had big mountains and that's about it. And
39:49
Speaker 2: then I was yeah, I motivated myself and I just
39:53
Speaker 2: went for it. And ever since then, I've kind of
39:55
Speaker 2: focused on that dream of like the goal is to
39:58
Speaker 2: be out there having experienced, is not to be sitting
40:01
Speaker 2: inside earning money. And I try really hard to always
40:05
Speaker 2: remind myself, And I have posters on my wall. I
40:07
Speaker 2: print out my own photos and put them. When I
40:10
Speaker 2: opened my laptop, my desktop background is like somewhere that
40:13
Speaker 2: I want to be to always remind me of, like
40:16
Speaker 2: what's the goal? What am I working towards?
40:18
Speaker 1: And do you feel like that in that moment of
40:21
Speaker 1: terror of what your future may look like? Do you
40:23
Speaker 1: feel like that now over a decade that you've been
40:26
Speaker 1: doing this do you feel like that you're there, like
40:29
Speaker 1: that you're honoring that part of you that you didn't
40:32
Speaker 1: want to be that guy. I think it comes and
40:35
Speaker 1: it goes.
40:35
Speaker 2: But when I'm on the adventure, you know, when I'm
40:38
Speaker 2: on the canning and I'm looking at the stars, I
40:39
Speaker 2: say it was all worth it, one hundred percent. But
40:42
Speaker 2: of course there's the days where I'm at home on
40:44
Speaker 2: my laptop all day editing photos or editing a video
40:47
Speaker 2: or whatever it happens to be when and I think,
40:51
Speaker 2: while it's difficult to do that, I think it's important
40:54
Speaker 2: to get the balance because I think if I just
40:57
Speaker 2: was on adventure all of the time, I wouldn't appreciate
40:59
Speaker 2: it as much.
41:00
Speaker 1: I do find that too, and I do. I really
41:04
Speaker 1: love the creative process. I do like seeing the adventure
41:09
Speaker 1: come to life, and mostly in my photographs, but you know,
41:12
Speaker 1: like stuff like producing the podcast. Is there's a lot
41:15
Speaker 1: of joy for that. Yeah? To me, Yeah, for sure.
41:18
Speaker 1: These conversations and a big part of.
41:20
Speaker 2: It for me I've realized about myself is that I
41:22
Speaker 2: actually don't want my life to be easy. I feel
41:25
Speaker 2: like an easy life maybe isn't very fulfilling, and at
41:29
Speaker 2: the end of every day, You're not going to sort
41:31
Speaker 2: of hit the pillow exhausted and be like, oh my god,
41:33
Speaker 2: Like I filled up today and I'm like, I'm tapped out.
41:37
Speaker 2: Easy life is probably not very rewarding. So in a sense,
41:41
Speaker 2: I'm aware that, like I chose to drive West Africa
41:44
Speaker 2: because it was difficult, and it was it was the
41:47
Speaker 2: hardest thing I've ever done in my life. And most
41:49
Speaker 2: nights I hit the pillow at seven pm I was
41:52
Speaker 2: so exhausted and slept through until sunrise. So I think
41:56
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, like the hardest things I've
41:58
Speaker 2: ever done are also the most rewarding for me. Yeah,
42:01
Speaker 2: and so there's that consciousness of like I'm seeking out
42:04
Speaker 2: hard stuff.
42:05
Speaker 1: But do you think that I mean, this is maybe
42:07
Speaker 1: more of a philosophical question, but because I've had similar
42:11
Speaker 1: experiences where like I'm getting stuck for fourteen hours, I
42:15
Speaker 1: was just overjoyed. Like I loved it. I loved the
42:20
Speaker 1: challenge of it. Some of the people that were on
42:21
Speaker 1: the trip were terrified, but I found for me that
42:25
Speaker 1: I just really loved the difficulty of it. But I
42:28
Speaker 1: think human beings are meant to do hard things. We're
42:31
Speaker 1: meant to walk or run twenty miles. We're meant to
42:35
Speaker 1: run down our prey oftentimes. Yeah, we're meant to carry
42:39
Speaker 1: heavy things. You know that we're the only animal that
42:44
Speaker 1: can with you know, with our own hands, we grab
42:46
Speaker 1: and we carry heavy things. Nothing else does that. So
42:50
Speaker 1: I think human, I mean, all animals are able to
42:53
Speaker 1: very difficult things, but humans, being the fact that we
42:56
Speaker 1: have our that we're conscious of it, I think we're
42:59
Speaker 1: meant to do that. I think we're meant to do
43:00
Speaker 1: hard things.
43:01
Speaker 2: And like we were saying, you know that the roar
43:03
Speaker 2: of the lion is in our DNA. I had a
43:05
Speaker 2: similar experience when I moved up to the Yukon. I
43:08
Speaker 2: lived there for a summer and then like winter was
43:10
Speaker 2: coming and I got invited out to go moose hunting,
43:13
Speaker 2: and I'd never been before, didn't know anything about it.
43:15
Speaker 1: And so my friends like.
43:16
Speaker 2: They shoot this moose and it takes us about twelve
43:19
Speaker 2: hours to butcher it up to put it in the
43:21
Speaker 2: canoes so we can keep canoeing down the river. And
43:23
Speaker 2: I had this feeling in my bones of like, this
43:26
Speaker 2: is what I'm meant to be doing, kneeling on the
43:28
Speaker 2: side of a river, hard labor. There's like a dusting
43:31
Speaker 2: of snow on the distant mountains, like minus forty is
43:34
Speaker 2: only a month away. I am collecting food for my
43:37
Speaker 2: survival right now. And the only reason I'm alive is
43:40
Speaker 2: because my ancestors have been doing this for forever, forever,
43:43
Speaker 2: And if they didn't do it, if they were bad at.
43:45
Speaker 1: It, I wouldn't be here. That's right.
43:47
Speaker 2: And I'm getting goosebumps now remembering that deep, deep feeling
43:51
Speaker 2: within me of like, this is what I'm meant to do.
43:54
Speaker 2: I meant to struggle for my own survival, and maybe
43:58
Speaker 2: struggles the wrong word, you know, like you.
44:01
Speaker 1: I think you said it right. I like that. I
44:03
Speaker 1: like how you describe it. We're meant to do hard things.
44:06
Speaker 1: And the most unhappy people in my life are the
44:09
Speaker 1: ones that avoided at all cost, and I think that
44:11
Speaker 1: they just don't get the satisfaction of accomplishing something that sucks.
44:16
Speaker 2: That's horrid, I agree, and that the feeling of achievement,
44:20
Speaker 2: and even if it's something mundane, like I don't know,
44:22
Speaker 2: you water pipe burst and you have to dig out
44:24
Speaker 2: some tree roots from the water pipe, and like it's
44:27
Speaker 2: it's fairly mundane manual labor, but at the end of it.
44:30
Speaker 2: You can sit down and say I achieved that, and
44:33
Speaker 2: look at that thing is now in the real physical world.
44:35
Speaker 2: That thing is like fixed and functioning because of my labor. Yeah,
44:39
Speaker 2: I think that is important to my happiness. I don't
44:42
Speaker 2: know about for everyone. Yeah, yeah, everybody's different. Yeah, but
44:45
Speaker 2: I think human beings in general were meant to do
44:48
Speaker 2: that stuff. It's what we've been doing for a very
44:50
Speaker 2: long time. So it is part of our makeup, and
44:53
Speaker 2: it is part of what feels fulfilling to us now,
44:56
Speaker 2: because how else would we be alive.
44:59
Speaker 1: Now. Those are great insights, and it's important to remember
45:02
Speaker 1: to pick hard things every once in a while at these.
45:05
Speaker 2: Well, and I think the temptation is always to you know,
45:08
Speaker 2: let's say I want to drive to Alaska, that the
45:10
Speaker 2: temptation is to like, oh, and I could bring a
45:12
Speaker 2: diesel here, and I could have a hot shower, and
45:14
Speaker 2: like more and more and more luxury, to the point
45:17
Speaker 2: where at some point you cross the line of like,
45:20
Speaker 2: so it's as comfortable as if I'm at home. And
45:22
Speaker 2: then is it even a challenge? Will you come back
45:25
Speaker 2: from that trip and say, we had these amazing experiences
45:28
Speaker 2: and it was incredible, or you come back and say like, hey,
45:31
Speaker 2: it was nice. Yeah, I had a good time.
45:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess maybe at the end of the
45:34
Speaker 1: day through the windscreen, they saw the scenery that they
45:37
Speaker 1: wanted to see, but none of the experience matched the environment.
45:42
Speaker 2: Right, because you're separating yourself from the envite, is separating
45:46
Speaker 2: yourself from the hardships to agree?
45:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting, But of course.
45:51
Speaker 2: We always or I always want things to be a
45:53
Speaker 2: certain level of challenging. Like getting stuck for forteen hours
45:56
Speaker 2: for you was like exhilarating, but obviously getting stuck for
45:59
Speaker 2: fourteen days is not so good. No, And it crosses
46:02
Speaker 2: over a line of like, Okay, now I'm genuinely like
46:04
Speaker 2: this is bad, I'm.
46:05
Speaker 1: In trouble, like and I was starting to realize that
46:09
Speaker 1: because we only at one point we had one option
46:12
Speaker 1: left with three land cruisers and that's not good.
46:15
Speaker 2: No, So no, when if all of them had been
46:18
Speaker 2: severely stuck, then it's purely down to manpower.
46:21
Speaker 1: And yeah, time two inches broke and we had one left,
46:24
Speaker 1: and we had every single thing in the recovery kit
46:27
Speaker 1: strapped together to make three four hundred feet. Yeah, that's
46:31
Speaker 1: a long pool. And it was the last plan C
46:35
Speaker 1: which is the last plan we had was the one
46:37
Speaker 1: that worked.
46:38
Speaker 2: And it is funny because now all these years later,
46:40
Speaker 2: you're sitting here telling me that story because it's the
46:43
Speaker 2: memorable part of the sure for sure, maybe the memorable
46:47
Speaker 2: part of Australia for you was like, yeah, when the
46:49
Speaker 2: going got tough, we stepped up, and.
46:52
Speaker 1: Now we feel really good about it. I love it
46:54
Speaker 1: and we have that feeling of like achievement. Yeah, totally.
46:57
Speaker 1: And I thought that was very cool. I don't know
47:02
Speaker 1: how much it's developed. I was there in twenty thirteen
47:06
Speaker 1: and you were there almost ten years later. They had
47:09
Speaker 1: just built maybe three or four little cabins combined together,
47:15
Speaker 1: like little places to stay. Okay, was that still there
47:18
Speaker 1: when you were there? Yeah, that's still there. And there's
47:20
Speaker 1: a general store now. Yeah there was a general store.
47:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, like basic supplies and the gas pumps were like
47:25
Speaker 2: credit card swipe. Oh, it's kind of like automating you swap,
47:28
Speaker 2: wasn't and then your self serve.
47:30
Speaker 1: It wasn't that when I was there, but they had
47:33
Speaker 1: just installed some pumps. So before that, like maybe even
47:36
Speaker 1: the season before I did it, you used to have
47:39
Speaker 1: to order your fuel in advance and they would bring
47:42
Speaker 1: it out in drums and put your name, get your
47:44
Speaker 1: name on.
47:45
Speaker 2: It, and you had to hope that your drum was
47:46
Speaker 2: still there. Yeah, and then it wasn't half full of water. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
47:50
Speaker 2: all of that.
47:51
Speaker 1: Yeah.
47:51
Speaker 2: No, it's I mean, every year we get more development
47:53
Speaker 2: and things get easier.
47:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, they do get a little ead, but that is
47:56
Speaker 1: still a very difficult track. By far, is the hardest
47:59
Speaker 1: track I've ever done it my life, which it's hard
48:01
Speaker 1: on the vehicle. Strangely enough, it's also the best track
48:03
Speaker 1: I've ever done in my life. Along the lanes of
48:06
Speaker 1: what we were talking about, you finish your Australia trip,
48:09
Speaker 1: and now you have built a new vehicle. Let's talk
48:14
Speaker 1: a little bit about what you just built.
48:15
Speaker 2: I feel like I've learned a lot over the years
48:17
Speaker 2: about what I'm looking for, and I distilled it down
48:20
Speaker 2: to three things that I always want to improve on
48:23
Speaker 2: what I've done in the past, and so I wanted
48:25
Speaker 2: better interior living space was number one. The ability to
48:28
Speaker 2: stand up and walk around is really nice to have.
48:31
Speaker 2: Out of the elements, I wanted to get better fuel
48:33
Speaker 2: mileage than ever before, basically not only because of the expense,
48:37
Speaker 2: but also because carrying two hundred and fifty liters of fuel.
48:41
Speaker 2: That's just an enormous amount of weight and it's really
48:44
Speaker 2: limiting on You just can't go as remote, you can't
48:47
Speaker 2: go as far out into the nowhere, saying, you know,
48:50
Speaker 2: with if you're carry that much fuel, you just can't
48:52
Speaker 2: carry enough food and water. And the third thing that
48:54
Speaker 2: I was looking for was an improvement in payload. And
48:57
Speaker 2: so the ability to carry more stuff just means I
49:00
Speaker 2: can get more remote or I can stay out for longer.
49:03
Speaker 1: And I felt.
49:03
Speaker 2: Like it was really helpful to have those criteria and
49:06
Speaker 2: be pretty strict about them, because then when an option
49:09
Speaker 2: gets presented someone says, hey, why don't you get a
49:11
Speaker 2: Tacoma and put a four wheel.
49:13
Speaker 1: Camper on it.
49:13
Speaker 2: I think that is a great vehicle and I would
49:15
Speaker 2: love to have one, But does it get better than
49:18
Speaker 2: my twenty miles a gallon I got in my little
49:20
Speaker 2: TJ to Argentina.
49:22
Speaker 1: No, it does not. It's off my list.
49:24
Speaker 2: And I was like, really strict about that because I
49:26
Speaker 2: think right now we're spoiled for choice. Yeah, and which
49:29
Speaker 2: is amazing, It's an incredible time, but the hard part
49:32
Speaker 2: isn't actually like the problem is that we have too
49:35
Speaker 2: many choices. And today at the show, many many people
49:38
Speaker 2: were asking me, oh, well, I'm thinking about this, and
49:40
Speaker 2: then I'm thinking about this, and they would just list
49:43
Speaker 2: ten options that are all pretty workable, but how are
49:46
Speaker 2: they going to decide. They're all they're stressing because they can't.
49:48
Speaker 1: Do it the cheapest one. Yeah, it's spend you can
49:51
Speaker 1: spend more money on other things. Go with the one
49:53
Speaker 1: you already have. Yeah, exactly.
49:56
Speaker 2: So, Yeah, and those three criteria really drove my decision. Mate,
50:00
Speaker 2: and jeeps have been really good for my adventures and
50:03
Speaker 2: they've always taken me where I wanted to go. And
50:05
Speaker 2: actually an engineer reached out to me. He's come up
50:08
Speaker 2: with a crazy plan. To some degree, he's recreating aev's
50:11
Speaker 2: outposts too. So take a wrangler and cut it off
50:14
Speaker 2: right behind the B pillars, throw away all that sheet
50:17
Speaker 2: metal and bodywork, which turns out to be about seven
50:20
Speaker 2: hundred pounds he weighed as he took it all off,
50:23
Speaker 2: and then graft on a carbon fiber on composite shell
50:27
Speaker 2: box that can be like a living box with a
50:29
Speaker 2: big pass through with a pop up roof, and interestingly,
50:32
Speaker 2: it weighs less than seven hundred pounds so in a
50:35
Speaker 2: strange way, while we've massively increased the livability of the vehicle,
50:38
Speaker 2: we actually made it lighter, so we increased the payload
50:42
Speaker 2: while making it better at the same time.
50:44
Speaker 1: And is that what your new is? Your new vehicle, though,
50:47
Speaker 1: is a Gladiator. No, my new vehicle is actually a Wrangler.
50:50
Speaker 1: It's a wrangler looks it just looks like a pickup.
50:54
Speaker 2: Right, And we've been trying to wrap our heads around
50:56
Speaker 2: it because it's been in cab design for so long.
50:58
Speaker 2: Michael has been working on it for a very long time.
51:01
Speaker 2: The interior floor plan, it actually has the size of
51:06
Speaker 2: the bed of two dew Gladiators would fit inside of it,
51:09
Speaker 2: inside of a Gebrangler, And you're like, how can.
51:12
Speaker 1: That be possible? But it is.
51:14
Speaker 2: It's every time we put a tape measure on it,
51:16
Speaker 2: we get confused and we scratch our heads, and then
51:18
Speaker 2: when you walk outside, you're like, but it's just a Wrangler.
51:21
Speaker 2: It's not very big, it doesn't have a long wheelbase. Yeah,
51:24
Speaker 2: it's a real head scratcher, just like the outposts too.
51:27
Speaker 2: Sure you've been inside of it, you sit inside of
51:30
Speaker 2: it and you're so far away from the other person,
51:32
Speaker 2: you know, you can't easily pass them something. But then
51:35
Speaker 2: when you step outside, you're like, hang on a minute.
51:38
Speaker 2: It's like Alice in Wonderland, or the tartis for a
51:42
Speaker 2: doctor who where the inside space is not.
51:44
Speaker 1: Representative by somehow, yeah somehow. Yeah, well it looks great
51:49
Speaker 1: and it looks I mean the current iteration which I
51:52
Speaker 1: signed your Instagram account. Let's just give that to people
51:55
Speaker 1: while they're listening so they can check that out for sure.
51:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm the road shows me on instaut and the
52:01
Speaker 2: engineer who is designed and manufactured and come up with
52:03
Speaker 2: all the genius. His name is Michael Fuchs and his
52:06
Speaker 2: Instagram is Wabi Sabi over there.
52:08
Speaker 1: Nice. Wabi Sabi is an interesting topic onlan and of itself.
52:12
Speaker 1: He's a very interesting character. Yeah. No, those that are
52:15
Speaker 1: listening look up wabi sabi. It's a Japanese term. It's
52:18
Speaker 1: kind of a neat one. So you've got the camper
52:20
Speaker 1: on the back, but you really haven't modified the jeep
52:23
Speaker 1: quite yet. No, it looks like it's mostly stark. That's right,
52:27
Speaker 1: all right, So let's talk about if you can. Let's
52:30
Speaker 1: talk about where you're going or you're waiting on that one.
52:33
Speaker 2: I found that it's really hard to talk about where
52:35
Speaker 2: I'm going because no matter what I plan, the world
52:37
Speaker 2: throws challenges.
52:38
Speaker 1: Yes, sure, so I remember last time we had.
52:40
Speaker 2: This conversation, I was longing to go to Central Asia
52:43
Speaker 2: and tajik Stan, Mongolio.
52:45
Speaker 1: It's a dream for me.
52:46
Speaker 2: But of course the Russia UK situation is really difficult.
52:49
Speaker 2: It makes it impossible, you know, And then COVID came
52:51
Speaker 2: along and really limited my options. So at this stage,
52:54
Speaker 2: I just am saving money and I'm dreaming and I'm planning.
52:57
Speaker 2: I feel like I have like two or three dream
53:00
Speaker 2: trips and I'm just going to forge your head until
53:04
Speaker 2: one of them actually can come true, because the most
53:06
Speaker 2: important thing is that a trip happens. And you know,
53:09
Speaker 2: if it's this one before that one, that doesn't really
53:12
Speaker 2: matter to me, no problem. And you know, if the
53:15
Speaker 2: situation in Ukraine and Russia changes, maybe that's what it'll be.
53:18
Speaker 2: But if it doesn't change, I have to move on
53:20
Speaker 2: to some other plan. Although there's some interesting routes that
53:23
Speaker 2: people are taking now where they're really going far south
53:28
Speaker 2: through Central Asia, right, and including going through Jordan and Iraq,
53:34
Speaker 2: so that they don't even go through Iran at all.
53:37
Speaker 1: Right, people are really trying to avoid your rounds. It's
53:39
Speaker 1: very interesting. Yeah.
53:40
Speaker 2: The last few groups of Overlanders have been arrested and
53:43
Speaker 2: detained and in trouble. Yeah, because it traditionally has sort
53:46
Speaker 2: of been Yeah, either you go north through Russia or
53:48
Speaker 2: sort of south through Iran and then into the stands. Yeah,
53:51
Speaker 2: I guess we have to adapt and we have to
53:52
Speaker 2: come up with new routes. Yeah, constantly. Even East Africa
53:56
Speaker 2: right now is a real challenge because if the Opia
53:58
Speaker 2: just changed all the the rules, the war in Sedan
54:01
Speaker 2: is bad right now.
54:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the direction that I'm heading, so we'll see.
54:05
Speaker 1: Fortunately it's Africa, so things will change, so I'm not
54:09
Speaker 1: I'm actually not worried about it at all. And as
54:11
Speaker 1: they say in Africa, there is always a way. Yeah,
54:13
Speaker 1: that's right exactly. I'm already figuring out the ways and
54:16
Speaker 1: there's ways we'll see. Yeah.
54:18
Speaker 2: And again sometimes those challenges are what make the trip Excignley,
54:22
Speaker 2: it's not supposed to be Disneyland. Well it was easy, Yeah,
54:26
Speaker 2: Like one everyone would be doing it, and two it
54:29
Speaker 2: wouldn't be all that rewarding. Yeah, I don't think so,
54:31
Speaker 2: we wouldn't be talking about it next time we meete up.
54:33
Speaker 1: You've got the vehicle in process. What else do you
54:36
Speaker 1: think you're going to be during this time when you're
54:39
Speaker 1: not traveling, you're going to be focusing on on some
54:42
Speaker 1: of your tech work and then building out the jeep.
54:45
Speaker 1: What's the next stage for the jeep? What's the next
54:48
Speaker 1: Southern iteration for that?
54:49
Speaker 2: The next stage is kind of all of the traditional
54:52
Speaker 2: jeep modifications. So I've got front and rear bumpers to
54:54
Speaker 2: go on, suspension, a winch, you know, all of the
54:59
Speaker 2: more traditional kind of upgrades that people would do to
55:02
Speaker 2: make it, you know, more capable off road.
55:04
Speaker 1: And sure more durable. Yeah, perfect, Well that would be fun.
55:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sort of the traditional like you know, just
55:10
Speaker 2: just turn wrenches and follow instructions and kind of like easy,
55:14
Speaker 2: but like really good reward, you know, when the job
55:16
Speaker 2: is done.
55:17
Speaker 1: Some other questions And I don't even remember if I
55:20
Speaker 1: asked you these questions in that first podcast because I've
55:24
Speaker 1: since kind of developed now my repertoire. I was the
55:29
Speaker 1: test case. You were definitely the test case. We were
55:31
Speaker 1: in we were in Chris cordes and and Britney's sprinter van.
55:36
Speaker 1: Somehow we were all packed in there. Yeah, and we
55:40
Speaker 1: had that conversation with you. So one of the questions
55:43
Speaker 1: that I like to ask, and I think you're just
55:46
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear the time that you spend
55:48
Speaker 1: on it. But if someone is new to overlanding and
55:52
Speaker 1: they ask you, what advice do you have for me?
55:55
Speaker 1: Or if you were to give advice to the Dan
55:58
Speaker 1: Grek of right before you left for that trip to Ushuaia,
56:02
Speaker 1: what advice would you have given your former self, or
56:05
Speaker 1: what advice would you give someone else about getting ready
56:08
Speaker 1: to do their first big overland trip.
56:10
Speaker 2: I feel like the most important thing is to understand
56:14
Speaker 2: why you want to go and what is it that
56:16
Speaker 2: makes you passionate about going. And I know, you know,
56:19
Speaker 2: some people are riding to the culture and the minute
56:22
Speaker 2: they hit Mexico they really want to learn Spanish and
56:25
Speaker 2: they really want to get into street food and two
56:27
Speaker 2: of them the mescal plants or whatever it is, and
56:30
Speaker 2: for them that is like their passion. Other people they say,
56:34
Speaker 2: we actually don't, we're not interested in that at all.
56:37
Speaker 2: But we're into fly fishing and we're going to bring
56:39
Speaker 2: our fly fishing rods or and we could go on
56:41
Speaker 2: all week, whether it's kayaking or hiking or for me,
56:44
Speaker 2: originally it was actually finding wilderness hot springs. I was
56:47
Speaker 2: just enamored by them, and so I had this little
56:50
Speaker 2: jeep and I thought, how far back into the wilderness
56:52
Speaker 2: can I get to find a hot spring with nobody there?
56:55
Speaker 1: You know? Sure?
56:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so for me, I think my biggest advice
56:59
Speaker 2: is like, don't worry what other people are doing or
57:01
Speaker 2: what other people say you have to bring. Just do
57:04
Speaker 2: what makes you happy. And if it's sitting by a
57:06
Speaker 2: stream reading a book, like, that's a phenomenal reason to
57:09
Speaker 2: get out in the back country. And then your decisions
57:12
Speaker 2: around vehicle and length of trip and duration of time
57:15
Speaker 2: and all of those things will fall into place based
57:18
Speaker 2: around what it is that you love about your trip,
57:22
Speaker 2: because it's really important to remember that everybody's trip is
57:26
Speaker 2: different and you need to focus on tailoring it for you.
57:29
Speaker 2: Don't just follow someone else's kind of, you know, step
57:32
Speaker 2: by step guide.
57:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, And maybe that's one of the challenges that we
57:35
Speaker 1: have as a community is that everyone's trips are so
57:40
Speaker 1: present in our Instagram feed or whatever we're looking at,
57:44
Speaker 1: YouTube channel, whatever that it's I think we'll see a
57:48
Speaker 1: lot of that, maybe like you saw in Australia where
57:52
Speaker 1: all of the land cruisers look exactly the same, and
57:55
Speaker 1: really those three or four people or they're very different people, right,
58:00
Speaker 1: So maybe the vehicle and the trip should just reflect
58:04
Speaker 1: as much of us as it can.
58:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's difficult too, because you know,
58:08
Speaker 2: if I was giving this advice to myself, I would say,
58:11
Speaker 2: but I don't know, like I've never done this before,
58:14
Speaker 2: and so you don't know if you've never tried. So
58:17
Speaker 2: the next piece of advice has to be you just
58:19
Speaker 2: just get out there and start trying. And probably like
58:22
Speaker 2: weekend trips are where you begin, and then maybe you know,
58:25
Speaker 2: a long weekend when you've got Monday off work, and
58:27
Speaker 2: then at some point there could be like a week
58:29
Speaker 2: long a two week trip, and in each of those
58:31
Speaker 2: trips you will start to learn we really love cooking,
58:35
Speaker 2: so we would like to have a good fridge in
58:36
Speaker 2: a good kitchen setup. Sure, other people they couldn't care
58:39
Speaker 2: less about cooking, and they're just you know, they'll eat
58:41
Speaker 2: frozen whatever. But again that's just it. Both trips are valid.
58:46
Speaker 2: It's not one's better than the other.
58:48
Speaker 1: Everybody's a little different.
58:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, and learn and discover what you're excited about so
58:53
Speaker 2: that you haven't already gone out and bought the world's
58:56
Speaker 2: best fridge. But it turns out you don't even actually
58:58
Speaker 2: care about cooking that much.
59:00
Speaker 1: It's a good point, yeah, Or if you're in Baja,
59:03
Speaker 1: do you even really need a fridge? I actually, there's
59:05
Speaker 1: so many good coats in bah like why bring a
59:08
Speaker 1: fridge and cheaper than like, of course, you could leave
59:12
Speaker 1: there for ten years and not spend as much money
59:14
Speaker 1: on tacos as one fridge. I was always so shocked
59:16
Speaker 1: why people would drive to Baja with a full fridge,
59:19
Speaker 1: like they went to the store in the United States
59:22
Speaker 1: and bought food that was made in Mexico. I mean,
59:25
Speaker 1: the vegetables are almost all grown down there. Go down
59:28
Speaker 1: to Mexico with an empty fridge or no fridge at all,
59:30
Speaker 1: because there's plenty of amazing food down there, you don't
59:33
Speaker 1: even need it.
59:34
Speaker 2: And I actually met people on the Pan American who
59:36
Speaker 2: got rid of their fridge because they said it just
59:38
Speaker 2: takes up spice. And we eat street food every day.
59:41
Speaker 1: Anyway because it's so cheap and it's so good exactly, absolutely, yeah,
59:45
Speaker 1: And so a part of that is just discovering what
59:48
Speaker 1: is your passion and what do you want the trip
59:50
Speaker 1: to be about. Yeah, that's great. And do you feel like,
59:54
Speaker 1: all these years later that you've been able to do
59:57
Speaker 1: your trips the way that you want to? I did?
1:00:00
Speaker 2: I do.
1:00:00
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:00:01
Speaker 2: I feel really lucky that, like you said, I prioritize time,
1:00:05
Speaker 2: and at some point I made the decision of like,
1:00:08
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and spend the least amount of
1:00:10
Speaker 2: money I can, which has its downsides, but that meant
1:00:14
Speaker 2: you know, the Pan American I thought would take one
1:00:16
Speaker 2: year and I ended up spending two. Africa I thought
1:00:19
Speaker 2: would take two years and I ended up spending three.
1:00:21
Speaker 2: Because I just realized, I'm like, I'm here, I have
1:00:24
Speaker 2: the vehicle, Like all the stars are aligned. This is
1:00:28
Speaker 2: my one chance, you know, to explore Angola. This is
1:00:31
Speaker 2: maybe the only time I'll ever be in the Congo.
1:00:34
Speaker 2: Why would I rush if there's an opportunity to just
1:00:37
Speaker 2: slow down a bit and like, oh it's midday, but
1:00:40
Speaker 2: there's a safe place to camp. Maybe I'll just hang
1:00:42
Speaker 2: out in this village for the rest of the day. Yeah,
1:00:44
Speaker 2: really really like.
1:00:45
Speaker 1: Try and like soak in as much as I possibly could. Yeah,
1:00:49
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to start doing that more I've
1:00:51
Speaker 1: never really let myself do that, which is interesting, and.
1:00:54
Speaker 2: There's a balance to be found. Obviously, going too slow
1:00:58
Speaker 2: you start to lose a bit of purpose focus. Yeah,
1:01:01
Speaker 2: so and everyone has their own rhythm. Yeah, but yeah,
1:01:04
Speaker 2: it's just an interesting balance of like, what is it
1:01:06
Speaker 2: that you're excited about and make sure you're doing lots
1:01:10
Speaker 2: of that.
1:01:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, great advice. I like that, do more of the
1:01:13
Speaker 1: stuff that makes you happy. Yeah, and we should all
1:01:17
Speaker 1: be doing that in all parts of our life. And
1:01:19
Speaker 1: to emphasize again, like for each person that's a different
1:01:21
Speaker 1: theme it is. And then and then feel comfortable saying
1:01:25
Speaker 1: no to the things that you don't like, no matter
1:01:27
Speaker 1: what it is. Yeah, to put those boundaries in place,
1:01:30
Speaker 1: all right. So then the last question that we do
1:01:32
Speaker 1: now ask a lot is have you recently or in
1:01:35
Speaker 1: the you know, in all of your travels, I'm sure
1:01:38
Speaker 1: you've done a lot of reading. Are there some books
1:01:40
Speaker 1: that you have found that you that you love, that
1:01:43
Speaker 1: you loved to read? You've you've created your own books,
1:01:46
Speaker 1: which is impressive, and we'll talk about that in a second,
1:01:48
Speaker 1: But what are some favorite reads for you?
1:01:51
Speaker 2: Favorite read of all time is still Ted Simon Jupiter's travels.
1:01:55
Speaker 1: That's a good one. Yeah. So it was that ten
1:01:56
Speaker 1: years he was traveling, wasn't it.
1:01:58
Speaker 2: His first trip was about four year four years, and
1:02:00
Speaker 2: then he did it all again for four years. And
1:02:03
Speaker 2: I love it because Ted was just an ordinary guy.
1:02:06
Speaker 2: He didn't have sponsors, He didn't even have a motorbike license,
1:02:08
Speaker 2: and he just came up with his wacky idea to
1:02:10
Speaker 2: write a motorbike around the world and he did it.
1:02:13
Speaker 2: And he didn't have any like you know, qualifications, National
1:02:17
Speaker 2: geographic weren't supporting him. He just was like, I have
1:02:20
Speaker 2: this dream and I want to make it come true.
1:02:22
Speaker 2: And he made it come true through sheer force of will.
1:02:25
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah.
1:02:27
Speaker 2: So that message that I take away from it that
1:02:30
Speaker 2: inspires me to be Some days I say to myself, like,
1:02:33
Speaker 2: come on, Ted did it, You can do it too. Yeah,
1:02:35
Speaker 2: let's let's go for it, like make it happen. It's
1:02:38
Speaker 2: time for you to step up and make your dreams
1:02:40
Speaker 2: come true. So let's talk about your books. So let's
1:02:43
Speaker 2: let's You've got three.
1:02:44
Speaker 1: Books out now, two written books in one photography book
1:02:47
Speaker 1: that's right, The photography book, that's right, And what are
1:02:50
Speaker 1: the two story books that you put.
1:02:52
Speaker 2: Outside of the adventure, The Road Shows Me Volume one, which
1:02:55
Speaker 2: is the story of the Alaska to Argentina trip, and
1:02:58
Speaker 2: that really does begin with me not knowing anything. I'd
1:03:01
Speaker 2: never heard the word overlanding, I'd never crossed the border,
1:03:04
Speaker 2: I didn't speak a word of Spanish, and I just
1:03:06
Speaker 2: went for it. They ted inspired me, and I thought,
1:03:08
Speaker 2: I'm going to I'm going to go for it and
1:03:10
Speaker 2: like see what happens. And that changed my life without doubt.
1:03:15
Speaker 2: And then the second book is called The Road Shows
1:03:17
Speaker 2: Me Volume two, creatively enough, and that is the story
1:03:20
Speaker 2: of my three years around Africa. And that book, it's
1:03:23
Speaker 2: it's a very big book because there was a lot
1:03:26
Speaker 2: a lot of things that happened, and I felt a
1:03:28
Speaker 2: real I felt a responsibility to do right by Africa
1:03:33
Speaker 2: because it did so writ by me.
1:03:34
Speaker 1: It came across in that way very much so when
1:03:37
Speaker 1: I when I read it, and I also liked it
1:03:40
Speaker 1: has a little bit of a travel guide tone to it,
1:03:43
Speaker 1: but it also has a little bit of a philosophy
1:03:45
Speaker 1: tone to it, which I liked. And then you did
1:03:47
Speaker 1: a really like you said, you did a really good
1:03:49
Speaker 1: job of honoring all of those places for the for
1:03:53
Speaker 1: the wonder that they are so and the.
1:03:55
Speaker 2: Way that people treated me like I was always told,
1:03:58
Speaker 2: you know, people would treat me well and people friendly,
1:04:00
Speaker 2: but of course I was scared, and the media has
1:04:03
Speaker 2: told me it's dangerous. But hundreds and hundreds of times
1:04:06
Speaker 2: people invited me into their village. Yes, yes, you can
1:04:09
Speaker 2: camp right here, like, please come, these are my children,
1:04:11
Speaker 2: like and a couple of times, you know, I was
1:04:13
Speaker 2: exhausted by myself and it would bring tears.
1:04:16
Speaker 1: To my eyes. Yeah, I'm pretty strain.
1:04:18
Speaker 2: Kind of you know, different color skin in this big
1:04:21
Speaker 2: four wheel drive, and they would just treat me so
1:04:24
Speaker 2: unbelievably well for no reason, for no gain of their own. Yeah, yeah,
1:04:29
Speaker 2: just being good humans.
1:04:30
Speaker 1: Just being good humans.
1:04:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that is that is the impression or that
1:04:34
Speaker 2: the overall lasting image for me of Africa, and it's
1:04:37
Speaker 2: the reason that I want to go back, you know,
1:04:39
Speaker 2: like elephants are cool and lions are fun. But even
1:04:43
Speaker 2: if I went back to Africa and didn't see any
1:04:45
Speaker 2: I would not be disappointed in the least. I would
1:04:47
Speaker 2: just go to remote villages and hang out with people
1:04:50
Speaker 2: like That's why I want to go back.
1:04:51
Speaker 1: I like that. Let's talk about how people can find
1:04:54
Speaker 1: out more about you. Obviously, the road shows me on
1:04:56
Speaker 1: all of the social things. That's right. You're on Instagram,
1:05:01
Speaker 1: great photography, you write. You write for Overland Journal on
1:05:04
Speaker 1: a regular basis and other publications too, because your stories
1:05:09
Speaker 1: are just incredible and they've been such an inspiration for
1:05:12
Speaker 1: so many One of the things I've seen I've noticed
1:05:15
Speaker 1: that you've really spent a lot more time on is
1:05:17
Speaker 1: your video work now, that's right. So yeah, and you're
1:05:20
Speaker 1: on YouTube primarily, that's right.
1:05:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, YouTube is the road shows me and I'm kind
1:05:25
Speaker 2: of again walking that line of like teaching people how
1:05:27
Speaker 2: to do it and also inspiring them by showing them
1:05:30
Speaker 2: what it looks.
1:05:30
Speaker 1: Like when you do go for it. Yeah, So take
1:05:33
Speaker 1: a look at all of Dan's stuff. It's great. It's
1:05:37
Speaker 1: been such a pleasure to have you on the podcast.
1:05:39
Speaker 1: It's been such a great opportunity for us to have
1:05:42
Speaker 1: you in the magazine so many times, and your stories,
1:05:46
Speaker 1: your stories are just great. And I love the fact
1:05:48
Speaker 1: that you started off with that soft top Wrangler because like,
1:05:51
Speaker 1: you can really only have your first trip, first first trip,
1:05:55
Speaker 1: and yours was so out of the norm in such
1:05:58
Speaker 1: a great way. I mean We've talked about it in
1:05:59
Speaker 1: the podcast many times. Of like when people are saying
1:06:03
Speaker 1: all they need all this stuff, I just say, remember Dan,
1:06:06
Speaker 1: Greg brove the entire length of the Pan American in
1:06:09
Speaker 1: a soft top two door TJ with a foreslin or advice,
1:06:13
Speaker 1: be manual and no modifications, none, no conditioning nothing. That
1:06:18
Speaker 1: that's I think the story of this podcast again is
1:06:22
Speaker 1: just get out there and do it, no matter what
1:06:23
Speaker 1: you got. Yeah, no doubt that.
1:06:25
Speaker 2: That has always got to be the message is like,
1:06:27
Speaker 2: just go for it, to have experiences, have adventures.
1:06:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Dan, it's a pleasure having you on the
1:06:32
Speaker 1: podcast again. I can't wait till we get to do
1:06:35
Speaker 1: number three after whatever this next version of adventure that
1:06:38
Speaker 1: you're going to have. We appreciate your time and we
1:06:41
Speaker 1: thank you all for listening, and we'll talk to you
1:06:43
Speaker 1: next time.