Latest / Pod Save America / Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Meltdown

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Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Meltdown · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Kamala Harris takes the lead in the
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: race for the White House just three weeks after announcing
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: her candidacy. But now she's got to reintroduce herself to
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: voters in the lead up to the convention, while the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Trump campaign throws everything they have at her and Tim Walz.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: And later, our pal Brian Tyler Cohen is here to
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: talk about his brand new book and play a round
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: of Take Appreciators With Me and Love It. But first,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: remember Donald Trump?
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Who? Uh....
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Since the debate on June 27th, he's held only eight
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: campaign rallies, and we haven't seen him on the trail
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: all week. The Washington Post reports that he's, quote, upset and, quote,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: complaining relentlessly about Kamala Harris's surging poll numbers and massive crowds.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: He's posting fantasies about Biden crashing the Democratic convention to
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: take back the nomination. Yeah. And all of this might
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: be why the old man decided to shuffle out of
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: his beach club on Thursday and yell at the cameras
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: for a while. Here's some highlights from Trump's press conference.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: In history, for any country, nobody's had crowds like I have.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: And you know that.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: And when she gets 1,000 people and everybody starts jumping,
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: you know that if I had 1,000 people, people would say,
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: that's the end of his campaign. I have hundreds of
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: thousands of people. But she has 1,000 people or 1,500 people,
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: and they say, oh, the enthusiasm's back. No, no. The
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: biggest crowd I've ever spoken before was that day. And
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you, it's very hard to find a picture
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: of that crowd. You see the picture of a small
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: number of people relatively going to the Capitol, but you
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: never see the picture of the crowd, the biggest crowd
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: I've ever spoken. I've spoken to the biggest crowds. Nobody's
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: spoken to crowds bigger than me. If you look at
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: Martin Luther King, when he did his speech, his great speech,
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: and you look at ours, same real estate, same everything,
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: same number of people.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: If not, we had more.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: And they said he had a million people, but I
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: had 25,000 people. But when you look at the exact
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: same picture, we actually had more people.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: I'm not complaining. I'm saying it's a.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: comparing his crowd on January 6th to Martin Luther King's
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I Have a Dream speech during the March on Washington.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: I was driving. I had to go pick up Kyla
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: from basketball camp during that press conference, and I was
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: driving with it, playing in the car, and I almost
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: swerved off the road at Martin Luther King because I
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: did not see that one coming. I should have, but
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I didn't.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: That was a compilation of all the times he talked
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: about crowd size. I actually think there were some more.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: First of all, the press conference lasted over an hour.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: He continued to bring it back to crowd size in polls.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: It was a wild press conference. I feel like we
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: say that every time he does a press conference and
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: we're like, this one is really wild. This one, I'm
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: trying to think of what was different about it. He seemed,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: first of all, he's very angry. He's very frustrated. He
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: does seem upset. Oh, he does. And so, yeah, I
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: do think that Washington Post story is true about him
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: complaining relentlessly because we all heard him do it. What
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: did you think? What were some of your takes on
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: the press conference?
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, I agree with that. He cannot get over
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: the state of the race. He is a lazy, entitled
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: human being, and he thought he was cruising to the
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: White House, and now he's not. And he is mad
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: about it. Because the other thing he kept bringing it
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: back to was how he was definitely not mad about
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris being the candidate now.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: He was definitely- I'm not complaining. I'm not complaining. But
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: the Democrats destroyed the Constitution by Joe Biden stepping down.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, in his vehement defense of Joe Biden, who
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: he repeatedly said he did not like.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: He doesn't like his brain. He said, I don't like
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: his brain.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: But I just think about this. He has not done
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: anything all week. He has a rally in the core
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: battleground state of Montana later tonight. Tonight, right?
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so, yeah. Thursday night, yeah.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Thursday night, the night we were recording this, not
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: the night you were listening to this. It's always tricky
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: for me. And so here he is. He's got the
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: whole press in front of him, and he does nothing
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: to advance his message.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: No message.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: No policy. Later today, which you can tell one of
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: the things his advisors told him to do was to
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: talk about his proposals on taxation of tips and no
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: taxation on Social Security because he's been truthing the hell
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: out of them afterwards to try to clean it up.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Did he talk about Kamala Harris's record?
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: Not really.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Not really. Did he talk about Tim Walz's record? Not really.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Did he talk about any of his plans, anything he's
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: going to do? Nope, not really at all. Did he
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: talk about how the economy was great when he was president?
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Did he talk about what the economy is now? Did
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: he talk about inflation? He started out the press conference
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: by saying, we are headed toward a depression. It's going
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: to be worse than 1929 and also a world war.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: And the country is an awful place and everything. Everyone's
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: laughing at us. And then he just sort of went
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: off on a tangent that lasted for about an hour
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: about himself and how he's angry with Kamala Harris and
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: himself and his poll numbers and his crowd size and
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: all the rest.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Here's what I'd say. Get out there more. More press conferences,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: more rallies.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Every day. Every single day. Let's do it every day.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: There were some newsy things. He was asked whether he
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: would restrict access to Mifepristone. And they really caught him.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Because instead of saying the abortion pill, they said Mifepristone,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: and he clearly has no idea what Mifepristone is. Because
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: his response was, you could do things, absolutely. Those things
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: are pretty open and humane. That's what he said. Would
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: you have the FDA restrict access to Mifepristone? You could
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: do things, absolutely. Someone asked him how he'd be voting
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: on the constitutional amendment in Florida to protect abortion access.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: and he said he'd be holding a press conference about that,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: and he'll have a more liberal answer than you think. Sure,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I guess we're holding our breath for that press conference.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: I'm sure.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: You know when his staff learned about that press conference?
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: During this press conference, yes.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Just then. He said he was off the trail. When
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: someone asked him why he wasn't campaigning, he said he
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: was off the trail because of the Democratic Convention, which
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: is in two weeks.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I would just note that for a long time, For decades,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: there was a tradition where you did not campaign during
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: the other person's convention. Was there? Yeah, there was. We
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: actually broke that. I think Obama was one of the
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: people who tore down that norm. But it is definitely
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: not a tradition that you don't campaign for the month
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: before the convention. That's not how you do this.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: He once again questioned Kamala Harris's race. Someone asked him
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: a question about why he said that at the NABJ,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: and he said, Whether it's Indian or black, I think
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: it's very disrespectful to both. And then when he was
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: asked about her surging in the polls, he said, well,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: she's a woman and she represents certain groups of people.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: That was his response.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: He did some really in-depth poll analysis of the impact
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: she would have in the race, about who would help
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: him with and who would hurt him with.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he really started going into demographic groups like he
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: was on Polar Coaster.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: He's not invited.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Do not come on Polar Coaster, Donald Trump.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Have we talked about The fact that it's clear now
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: he has confused insane asylums for asylum seekers. Have we
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: talked about that on this podcast? I can't remember.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: You and I have not talked about it. Have you
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: talked about it with anyone else on another podcast?
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't think so.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know what I say in public or what
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I say.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: What's a meeting? What's a podcast?
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: It is clear that the reason he's always talking about
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: other countries dumping out their mental institutions around whenever he's
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: bringing up immigration is It's now clear that it's because
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: he thinks insane asylums are like asylum seekers, and he
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: has conflated those two terms.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: It is much like in 2016 when he tweeted no
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: cuts to Medicaid, what he meant to tweet no cuts
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: to Medicare, and he didn't know the difference.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Right. And of course, he did propose very large cuts.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: He proposed to basically eliminate Medicaid or just completely eliminate
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: the federal guarantee for Medicaid and then also cuts to Medicare. Yes. Also,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: he's really into... He said this when Tim Walz was...
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: First selected, he said it again, transgender has become such
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: a big thing, and he's really into transgender. He's really
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: into everything transgender. So he doesn't really know. He doesn't
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: know much about stuff. And so he can sort of
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: skate on the surface of a lot of these words.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: He knows the words. He hears the buzzwords in the
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: background when he's watching cable. He's watching his favorite shows.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: So he can say a couple sentences, but he really
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: can't go beyond that.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: He has the public affairs knowledge of a regular cable
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: news watcher who does a lot of two-screening.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's about right. So the other newsy thing, he
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: said he's now agreed to the ABC debate on September 10th.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: That debate is now on. Kamala Harris afterwards said she's in.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: So that is happening. We are headed towards a September
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: 10th debate. Donald Trump, Kamala Harris. Exciting stuff. He said
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: he's also agreed, of course, to the Fox debate on
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: September 4th, which Kamala Harris has not agreed to because
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: he wants... to take place in a MAGA Thunderdome with
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: a huge audience that are all his people. And then
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: a new one, he said he wants a debate with
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: NBC on September 25th. She said she's open to that one.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: We're going to get by that first September 10th debate first.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Why do you think Donald Trump changed his mind?
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Because she's surging and he's sagging?
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: A week ago, I mean, you guys talked about this
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: on Tuesday, but last Friday night, he pulled out of
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: all the debates, pulled out of the ABC debate, doesn't
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: want to do it. Seemed like the last thing in
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: the world he wanted to do was debate Kamala Harris,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: but she's on a glide path right now, right? She gained,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: and then she passed him in the national polling average.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: All these states are toss-ups. He knows she's heading into
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: her convention in two weeks. That is more momentum for her.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: And he's got to do something to stop it. He
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: cannot just sit on his ass in Mar-a-Lago and win
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: this election. He's finally come to that conclusion. And so
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: he wants to do many debates. And he seems to
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: be trying to– he wants to– he looked weak. I
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: think he recommends he also looked weak and scared this
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: past week from not wanting to debate. So he's trying
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: to go back on offense here and seem like he's
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: the one pushing for debates.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Can't wait. Can't wait.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Would you do more debates if you were her? If
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: I was her? Yeah.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Depends on how the first one goes.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Like, I mean, you know, there's a scenario where she
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: absolutely crushes it in that first debate, and then it's like,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: why do you do another one? Then there's almost any
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: other scenario, even a scenario where she wins, but, you know,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: enough people say that maybe he did okay, and then
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: he starts pulling even or pulling ahead in September, then
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: maybe you want to do another debate. Or if she
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: does poorly, then then you probably do want to do
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: another debate.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, the calculus for Biden to want the debate,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: something that will- Not to go back, yeah. Yeah, the
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: history we'll wonder about for a long time, but the
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: original calculus was we need the elector to focus on
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump to win. That was Joe Biden's calculus. That's
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: not necessarily, we'll get to this, but that's not necessarily
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris's calculus. But I do think she's largely undefined,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: which we'll also get to, but getting on stage and
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: kicking his ass I think has real value and doing
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: it multiple times, I think probably also has real value.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: But I think your approach is probably right. You could
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: theoretically agree to two. And then after you kick his
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: ass on the first one, say, I don't want to
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: put Donald through this again, like he did about Biden.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: To me, it feels a little bit like the Obama-McCain
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: debates in 08, which is like, I think that voters,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: you know, like Obama was ahead, voters still just needed
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: to know that he could do the job, that he
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: was ready. And- all it took was sort of like
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: one or two debates with McCain. And they're like, okay,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: even though everyone's saying he's this like new inexperienced young guy,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: he stood up there on stage. He held his own.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: He knows what he's talking about. He gave as good
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: as he got. And like, that was it.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: She shouldn't have to do that. Cause she's the vice
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: president of the United States. Like it's basically in her
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: job though.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: But, But again, everyone has the memory of a goldfish now,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: and the media is fractured, so people don't know her
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: as well as they should.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: And like with Obama, you're asking people to make history,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: in this case, in several different ways. And so the
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: burden is unfairly on Kamala Harris in the way it
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be on a white man candidate.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: But I think for voters, it's probably more of a reassurance,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: and who is she and what is she for? than
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: can she really kick Donald Trump's ass? Though for the
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: press and the way it's going to be covered, people
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: will want to see that she can kick Donald Trump's ass.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Kicking Donald Trump's ass is not about beating Donald Trump.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: It's demonstrating strength on her behalf in an election where...
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: And because you also... That is the emperor has no
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: clothes moment for Trump, right? If you're running as a
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: strong man and you get your ass kicked in a debate,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: that is very hard for you. And that did not
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: happen in either of the two elections, even though Just
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: the way it would play out, I think, is different
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: than it would be with Biden or Clinton because of
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: just how those politicians were perceived and how unknown Kamala
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Harris is to people. So I think it's just a
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: very fascinating strategic calculus for them. It's different than it
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: was for Biden in a similar situation.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Polling, big source of Trump's anger. Kamala
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Harris is now leading by two points nationally in the
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: 538 average, as you mentioned. That includes a whopping 53
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: to 47 lead in the latest Marquette poll. which is
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: one of the highest rated polls out there. She's also
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: got a point lead in their Wisconsin poll, has seemingly
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: tied it up in Georgia, closing the gap in Arizona.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Our friends at Split Ticket also found a one point
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: lead for Harris in the blue wall states of Wisconsin, Michigan,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania. Their late July poll just a couple of
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: weeks ago found Biden trailing Trump by seven in those states.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Quite a swing. Seems like a long honeymoon for Harris, huh?
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: What do you make of all the polling? Care to-
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Rain on our parade at all?
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: I know that would be on brand.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: That's what I go to you for, yeah. But you
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: know what?
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to do that today.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to rain.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: On anyone's parade.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, Dan's just guaranteeing a win.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not guaranteeing anything. I'm just saying let's just revel
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: in the positivity right now. Think of where we were
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: three weeks ago. Three weeks ago, Donald Trump was cruising
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: for an electoral landslide that would have brought him to
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: the House and the Senate at the same time. Georgia, Arizona,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Nevada were off the map and no longer competitive for Democrats.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Biden was behind in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. The odds
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: of victory were quite long. The states of Minnesota, Virginia,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: and New Mexico and New Jersey were becoming competitive. Here
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: we are now, three weeks later, new ticket, toss-up race.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: All six states are within the margin of error in toss-ups.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden had one path to 270 if you squinted
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: as hard as you possibly could. Kamala Harris has as
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: many past 270 as Donald Trump does right now. She
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: has momentum. She is surging. That doesn't mean it's in
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: the bag. There's a ton of work to do. We
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: have to remember that the country is more democratic than
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: the Electoral College. So even a two-point lead in the
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: popular vote is about, probably, a tie, if not a
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: slight deficit in the battleground states. But we are, the Democrats,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris, Tim Walz, We are in this in a
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: way that seemed impossible to imagine three weeks ago. So
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: we should– there's a ton of work to do, a
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: ton of work to do to define her, to win
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: this race, to make sure that the voters turn out.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: But to get back, even though she's made huge improvements
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: with young voters, black voters, Latina voters over where we
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: were three weeks ago, there's still work to do to
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: get to the numbers that we had in 2020. And
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: we probably have to exceed them because if you look
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: deep in the poll, you see some bleeding with older
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: white voters. And so we're going to need more young voters,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: more Black voters, more Latino voters to make up that
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: deficit and win. But we can be happy right now.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: We can be excited and overjoyed at where we are
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: because it's not anywhere where we thought we would be
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: just three weeks ago.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I know. And I think if you look under the
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: top lines of these polls, what has happened, what she's
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: been able to do is essentially consolidate the Biden 2020
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: vote in a way that Biden could not or was
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: not when he left the race. And so- his weakness
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: with younger voters, Black voters, Latino voters, who had not
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: necessarily said they were voting for Trump. Some had, but
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: were flirting with a third party candidate or not voting
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: at all. It seems like she has consolidated that vote.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: But of course, that still brings you to a 2020
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: race that was decided by 40,000 votes across three states.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: So super close. And, you know, you can hear it
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: in some focus groups, too. The sort of Trump-Biden voters,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: the Trump voters from 16 who switched over to Biden
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: in 20, you know, there's still work to do with them.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Like you said, there's still work to do, you know,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: registering and turning out more Democratic-leaning constituencies and voters. And,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: you know, it's going to be close. And Trump will
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: still get, you know, never, one lesson since 2016 has
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: been like never underestimate Republican turnout when Donald Trump is
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: on the ballot. And it always breaks records. So that's
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: something that we have to think about in the next
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: couple months. One quick housekeeping note before we move on.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: It's summertime. It's a beautiful day out there. Or it's
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: 120 degrees. It's probably 120 degrees. Either way, this is
• 18:04
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• 18:11
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• 18:13
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• 18:15
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• 18:17
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• 18:22
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• 18:24
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• 18:26
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• 18:36
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• 18:38
  Speaker 1: of Pod Save America with five of your friends. And
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: that's it. That's all we got. We are recording this
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: exactly two weeks before the vice president delivers her acceptance
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: speech at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. The next
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: 14 days are a window for the Harris-Walls campaign to
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: frame the race and define the candidates on their terms.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: A new blueprint poll found that voters are more responsive
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: to informative pro-Harris messaging that focuses on her biography, record
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: as a prosecutor, and commitment to economic populism and immigration reform.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: They are less persuaded... by anti-Trump messages because 71% of
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: all voters say their minds are already made up about
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Trump and there's nothing you can do to change their mind,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: whether they're against or for. Obviously, Harris goes after Trump
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: pretty hard in her stump speech right now, but especially
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: this week, she's been leaning into a more positive message.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Here she is accepting the UAW endorsement in Detroit today.
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: We want to recognize the right all people have to
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: freedom and liberty to make choices, especially those that are
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: about heart and home and not have their government telling
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: them what to do. Our campaign is.
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: About saying we trust the people.
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: We are a nation of people who believe in those
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: ideals that were foundational to what made us so special
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: as a nation. And we know we are a work
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: in progress. We haven't yet quite reached all of those ideals,
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: but we will die trying because we love our country
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: and we believe in who we are. And that's what
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: our campaign is about. We love our country. We believe
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: in our country. We believe in each other.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: How would you balance the anti-Trump pro-Kamala message if you
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: were the Harris campaign? There has been a theory all
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: along that if this election is about Donald Trump, Donald
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Trump will lose. That was certainly the theory when Biden
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: was the Democratic nominee. Do you toss that theory aside
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: and say she needs to define herself? She needs to
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: define her agenda? and she needs to tell people what
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: the Democratic Party is for? Or do you do some
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: kind of a mix? What do you think?
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: It's a little bit of a mix. You do have
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: to throw the previous model aside, because we have been
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: analyzing this race in the context of an election that
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: was the present versus the recent past. And now it
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: is the past versus the future. And that's a very different...
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: And Kamala Harris is the vice president to the incumbent president,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: but she does not represent the status quo in the
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: way that Biden did. She represents change, change from Biden,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: change from Trump, change from these sort of grinding politics
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: we've been in since Trump came down the escalator 10
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: years ago. It is a different, more hopeful future. And
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: so the way to do it, I think, is to–
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: she has to educate people about herself. Like all the polling,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: all the focus groups, the public stuff, the private stuff,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: all shows the same thing. The single most important thing
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: is to educate people about her biography, her positions, and
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: her values. She has high name ID. people know almost
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: nothing about her. And the persuadable voters know less than
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: everyone else. And so you have to do that. And
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: that's what the ads that the campaign and the smart
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: people who run the super PACs have on the air
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: right now. It's all bio stuff. Now in your stump speech,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: you got a crowd of people who hate Donald Trump there, right?
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: You got to give them some stuff. And so you
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: got to do it contrast, right? I think a great,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: her best riff is the prosecutor perpetrator one because it's
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: her bio and Against him, right? And against what he
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: stands for and who he is. And so all of
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: the testing I have seen in this cycle shows that
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: the best ads are contrast ads. Now, for Kamala Harris,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: you have this urgency that you need every second of
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: that 60-second ad to educate people about her because no
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: nominee has ever been this– this seems crazy for the
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Vice President of the United States, but this less known
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: at this point in the race, right? Everyone else has
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: been through a year of primaries. They've campaigned in 40
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: or 50 states, or they're the incumbent president. She just,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: for most people, popped up on their screen two and
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: a half weeks ago. And now she is the nominee
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: with 88 days or 87 days, whatever it is they go.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And so you have to do a lot on her
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: bio and who she is and what she stands for.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: And there's a way to do that where you're not
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: just reading your Wikipedia page, but you're tying, you take
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: every aspects of your bio. And this is in this
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: great ad they have up, Target Latino Voters. that talks
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: about her position on immigration as someone who is a
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: children of immigrants. And so it's that way. Use your
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: bio as the reason why you have certain policy positions,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: and then use Donald Trump's bio to be why he
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: has certain policy positions, right? It's not exactly Scranton versus
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Mar-a-Lago or whatever that sort of frame was, but it's
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: kind of in that realm.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that the prosecutor versus convicted felon
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: riff was like very useful at the beginning of the
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: campaign to show fight, to take on Donald Trump as
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: she was still sort of consolidating the Democratic Party. I
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: would imagine that as she goes forward and she's already
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: doing this, that sort of morphs into using the elements
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: of her bio that show her as a fighter who
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: can take on powerful corporate interests on behalf of people
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and Trump's only for himself. And so, you know, an
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: element of her bio that's particularly effective when she talks
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: about it is, you know, she was attorney general for
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: the fifth largest economy in the world in California and
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: took on the big banks on behalf of homeowners. And
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: when she was vice president with Joe Biden, she took
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: on pharmaceutical companies to bring down the cost of insulin.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: And so I think she'll be introducing herself on those terms. And,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: you know, we heard her do this in the clip
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: that we just listened to. They are going to try
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: to other her, right? And they're doing it to her
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: and Tim Walz, right? Like she is not like us.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: She is, whether it's Donald Trump implying that she's, you know,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: she's a phony. Is she biracial? Is she just changing
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: who she is, right? Not pronouncing her name correctly, not
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: spelling her name correctly, right? This is what they did
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: to Barack Obama too. So they're going to try to
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: other her and say that she's not like us. She's
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: not like your typical American. And she can get up
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: there as she just did in that clip. And talk
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: about how much she loves this country. And, you know,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: she and Tim Walz said this at the event where
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: she introduced him and announced him. A couple of middle
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: class kids. She's from Oakland. He's from Nebraska. And she's
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: the middle class daughter of immigrants who has lived the
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: American dream. And now she's going to fight to make
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: sure every single person in this country can live the
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: American dream, too. And you contrast that with Donald Trump,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: who has had everything fucking handed to him and only
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: cares about himself. It's a great contrast.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: The Republican MAGA version of the American story is like
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: you fell off the Mayflower and you just arrived in
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Plymouth Rock. But the true American story that everyone knows
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: because that's everyone's family is at some point, your parents,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: your grandparents, your great-grandparents are immigrants from somewhere. And telling
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: that story is– I mean that's– Republicans looked askance at
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Obama's version of his story, right, with a single mom
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: and a father who wasn't from this country. And they're like,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: that's not the American story. But that rings true to everyone.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: And her story is truly a quintessential American story. And
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: so there's a way of telling it that that informs
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: your values, that inform your policies going forward.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. How would you spend these two weeks
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: leading up to her convention speech? And what do you
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: think the goals of the convention itself should be?
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: So for the next, at least the next week, right?
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: The week of the convention, it makes sense to sort
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: of do some stuff a little bit lower key. so
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: that your convention is getting the attention, right? Because Tim
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Wallace is going to speak one night. President Obama, I assume,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: will speak one night. President Biden will speak one night.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: You want that to drive your message. But next week,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: normally you would sort of just glide into the convention
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: just doing your stump speech. And I think going with
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Tim Wallace and introducing herself and giving us the same
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: version of her stump in each of these battleground states
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: is the right choice. This is our first time in
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: most of these states, and certainly our first time with
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Tim Wallace to do that. But you got to continue
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: to be on offense. So you're going to have to
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: like start. We're now at the point in the race
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: starting next week where you got to mix in a
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: new hit on Trump every day. And yeah, you know,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: I would think about doing some policy rollouts next week.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: I know that sounds crazy, but because her convention speech
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: needs to be so much about introducing her, I worry
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: about a convention speech that's introducing her, but also laying
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: out her vision for the future. We're going to get
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: into like some sort of, you know, horrendous version of
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: a state of the union, right? That's not what you want.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: You want it to be tight. You want it to
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: be good. You want to be powerful.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Honestly, that was our 08 convention speech right up until
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: like two days before, and we just kept cutting and
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: cutting and cutting, and it just kept getting bigger and
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: bigger and bigger with policy. There's a lot of business
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: to get done in any convention speech, and her specifically.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: No one cares about the policy part of it.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: They care about it in terms of people want to
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: know who she's going to fight for and what she's
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: going to do for them. And I think if she
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: has a real tight section on lowering costs, affordability, what
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: she plans to do, that's going to take care of it.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: But what you give yourself, she's in the position where
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: by the time Barack Obama gave the speech, he'd given
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: 700 economic policy speeches on the campaign trail. So you
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: could reference it here. She has given no economic policy
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: speeches as a presidential candidate. So I'm not saying, I
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: know the speechwriters, I like the speechwriters personally too much
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: to suggest a major economic policy speech weeks before the convention.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that. But just do, but just, I would,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: I would do that to you. I would not do
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: that to them. Just like, you can just, you can
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: put it in it. You can just insert it into
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: a speech in Michigan next week.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Just like one proposal here, one proposal there, even just like,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: I think she even said this at one point, like
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: on day one, I'm going to appoint someone to go
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: after price gouging.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: There are some things you can do like that. They're
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: just easy that you can then reference in the speech.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: The main thing here is she has succeeded by being
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: on offense the whole time. And you can already see
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: the press– not that the press matters that much, but
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: it still matters some– is going to get bored with
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: this quickly, and they're going to start putting pressure on her.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I'd also– she did this today. She took questions. The
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: press is already freaking out. She hasn't talked to them enough.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: And so she took a few questions today before leaving Detroit,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: I think. Do that a couple– do that all week.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Just a couple of year, a couple of there.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Of course. One of the questions was, why aren't you
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: taking more questions from us? Why aren't you doing an interview?
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: She did say that would get you. Um, but she said,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: I talked to my team. We're going to schedule an
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: interview by the end of this month, like a sit
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: downs thing.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: So she, she, which was, I would even, I just
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: like just the, the thing we'll always hear is let
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: the air out of the balloon slowly. So that when
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: you do– like I do some local TV interviews next week.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: I know the Washington Press won't count those, but they
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: have to pretend like they count. You can't shit all
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: over the local media. I would just take that– you
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: want that out of the way before the convention speech
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: so you can roll out of the convention speech. I
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: don't know what they have planned, whether it's like a
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: bus tour or a boat tour or just like a
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: barnstorming tour where you can just really build on that
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: momentum for a few days without the press screaming at
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: you every time you turn around, why won't you talk
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: to us? So just like take care of that business
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: now so that you can maximize the convention moment going forward.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: I hope it's a boat tour and just go through
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Great Lakes. Who did the boat tour? I did not
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: do a boat tour.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Did John Kerry do a boat tour? Either John Kerry
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: did a boat tour or Barack.
• 30:41
  Speaker 7: Obama did a boat tour.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: I think it was John Kerry.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: John Kerry did like a sea to shining sea tour
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: after the convention because it was in Boston. So he
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: went right across the country.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: He went all the way to Oregon, I think. Like
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: he was talking to Lewis and Clark.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Didn't work.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: We didn't get dysentery on the Oregon Trail.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Harris's new running mate, Tim Walls, is also in a
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: race to define himself before the Trump campaign can do
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: it for him. Their senior advisor, Chris LaCivita, was the
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: person who led the Swift Boat attack against John Kerry's
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: military service way back in 2004. God, 20 years ago.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: And now he's doing the same thing to Walls.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: J.D.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Vance kicked off the attack this week by accusing Walls
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: of lying about his rank. in the military, his service,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: and leaving the National Guard before his unit was deployed
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: to Iraq. One other Trump campaign line of attack on
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Walls has blown up in their face after ABC unearthed
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: a recording of Trump praising Walls for his response to
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: the George Floyd protests. Let's listen.
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: I know Governor Walls is on the phone and we spoke,
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: and I fully agree with the way he handled it
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: the last couple of days.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I asked him to do that, and.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: The whole world was laughing. Two days, three days later,
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: I spoke to the governor.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: The governor, I think on the call, he's an excellent guy.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: These dummies. They're like, from the moment Walz gets picked,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: they're telegraphing like, oh, his handling of the George Floyd
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: protests in Minneapolis. This is going to be the main
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: line of attack. We're going to get him because. He
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: didn't send the National Guard out, you know, they wanted
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: it one afternoon and he sent it out the next
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: morning and that was going to be the whole thing.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: And then they got Donald Trump being like, great job.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: We love you. Excellent guy.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: I'm sure he just loves Tim Walls because his last
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: name is Walls.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I never really thought that that line of attack was
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: going to be that salient only because I feel like as, again,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: we all have the memory of goldfish now and that's
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: gotten worse over the years. I feel like talking about
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: something that happened in 2020 in one city in the
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: country feels like it has limited effectiveness.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: The only thing it does is that it gives MAGA
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Republicans who go on TV something to say. Because there's
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: really nothing else to say about Tim Walz.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: He is incredibly successful, incredibly likable.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: No, no, no. He had the audacity to have tampons
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: in school bathrooms.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: That one did rocket around the Magosphere pretty quickly.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: They're very upset. They want to call him Tampon Tim,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: and they think that that's going to be, that's it,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: he's done.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would stipulate one, that almost any time
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: spent focusing on Tim Walls is probably a win for
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: us because it's not- I was.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Going to say, this whole thing of like, why are
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: you going this hard at the, I mean, you know,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: we've done our share of JD Vance attacking, but I
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: do think that there's, again, there's limited value in that
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think we've been pretty open that
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: that's mostly catharsis. Like, it's amusing. Like, we deserve that, right?
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like you don't see the Harris campaign spending all
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: their time on J.D. Vance. Right, right. I mean, the J.D.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Vance part that was useful was his connections to Project 2025. Like,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: that was a helpful– that drove a larger narrative about Trump.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: Still is, yeah.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: The things about Tim Walz's handling of something in Minnesota
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: four years ago. does not drive any sort of message
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: about Kamala Harris. And once again, the guy is a
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: veteran gun-owning football coach from rural Minnesota. You're not going
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: to make him into some sort of radical. That is
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: not feasible.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Well, what are your thoughts on the attempt to swift
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: boat him, attacking his military record?
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's disgusting and despicable and totally unsurprising from
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Trump and the people running his campaign, and it's complete
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: and total bullshit. He filed paperwork for Congress a month
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: before There were even rumors that his unit could be deployed.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: He announced for Congress a month before his unit got orders.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: There's no evidence that he ran for Congress to avoid
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: going to Iraq. It's complete bullshit.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: He served 24 years in the Guard. You only had
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: to serve 20 to get retirement. He served 24 years.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: He was also deployed during the war in Afghanistan, Operation
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Enduring Freedom. He was stationed in Italy at the time.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: In an ad, he was talking about assault weapons bans,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: and he was saying, I've carried weapons of war. in
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: a war. And so they're attacking him on that. But,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: you know, as the campaign said, he has carried, fired,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: and trained others to use weapons of war innumerable times.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: And he was stationed in Italy doing security missions during
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Operation Enduring Freedom, which was the war in Afghanistan. So
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: it's like, what are we talking about?
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is just absolutely ridiculous. Like, it's totally absurd.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I think the stuff, like, people are going to hear
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: this because these are the kind of things that will
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: rocket around the internet. Like, In your text exchange with
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: your uncle, you're going to get the tampon thing and
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: you're going to get the veteran thing. And so the
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: things that we just laid out here are the talking
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: points to respond to that. Once again, attacking Tim Walz's
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: service record and attacking his gubernatorial record for one period
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: of time that Donald Trump praised four years ago is
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: not a particularly constructive use of time from the Trump's campaign.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: But if you want to win the argument with your
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: mag uncle, these are the points you need.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And also there's a guy who served with them
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: in his unit who's a Republican and said, doesn't like
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: his politics, not going to vote for Kamala Harris and
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Tim Walz. But he's like, he was a fantastic soldier,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: loved serving with them. And of course, he did not
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: leave the guard to avoid Iraq. He left the guard
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: so he could run for Congress.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: The other argument here is that he has inflated his
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: rank because in He rose to the rank of command
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: sergeant major, but he did not retire with that rank
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: because you have to serve for three years of that
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: rank to retire with it. So he retired at a
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: lower rank. And there have been a couple of times
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: in pieces of paper, including one from the Harris campaign,
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: that said retired ass as opposed to rose to, but
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: like we.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Are- That's it. That's the whole controversy.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: It is a semantic argument that is absolutely absurd. And
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: just the fact that we're having this conversation speaks to
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: what an amazing pick Tim Walls is because this is
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: the best they have, right?
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: And it's also, well, it's also a sign that they
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: are flailing right now and they are desperate. Like you said,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: they think that the press might be a little bored.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: The honeymoon has gone on too long. She's gotten a
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: lot of good press. So like they see an opening-
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: to just latch onto something, which I think by the way,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: you know, they might've had some traction had Donald Trump
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: not gone out today. And for an hour, just fucking
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: had a, a breakdown on national television. Cause now once again,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: he made himself the story. So we're going to deal
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: with that for another, another new cycle. And then we
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: got next week and then we got the convention. So yeah,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: it's they are, they are running out of time, but
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: obviously lots of work to do for Kamala Harris and
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Tim walls and the whole campaign and all of us.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: When we come back, we will talk to our friend
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Brian Tyler Cohen about his new book, Shameless, Republicans' Deliberate
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Dysfunction and the Battle to Preserve Democracy. Joining me now,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: our good pal Brian Tyler Cohen. YouTuber, podcaster, and now author.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: His book, Shameless, Republicans' Deliberate Dysfunction in the Battle to
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Preserve Democracy, comes out on August 13th. You can pre-order
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: it now wherever books are sold. Brian, welcome.
• 38:05
  Speaker 7: Thank you so much. Look at this.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Look at this book. I love it. I love the cover.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: We got Abe Lincoln here, we got the Lincoln Memorial,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: but he's got his hand on his face.
• 38:14
  Speaker 7: Cowering in shame.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: He is embarrassed.
• 38:16
  Speaker 7: Cowering in shame. Well, let me just say, first off,
• 38:18
  Speaker 7: it's awesome to be here, and a big part of
• 38:20
  Speaker 7: why I do what I do is because of what
• 38:23
  Speaker 7: you guys do. You are a huge part of my
• 38:25
  Speaker 7: media diet and a huge inspiration for me, so to
• 38:29
  Speaker 7: be here is really exciting, and I appreciate it.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: That's too nice of you.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: Right back at you, man.
• 38:32
  Speaker 7: That's how you get good questions in the interview.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Let's go. Yeah, you know me. It's going to be
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: some hard-hitting shit here. So as someone who just wrote
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: a book with the help of three other people and
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: still complained the whole time, why'd you do it? Why'd
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: you do this to yourself?
• 38:47
  Speaker 7: I guess I just have like, I just wanted my
• 38:50
  Speaker 7: life to be as miserable as humanly possible. Here's the thing.
• 38:53
  Speaker 7: This was written between the hours of 10 p.m. and
• 38:56
  Speaker 7: 3 a.m. every night in the aftermath of all.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: Of the work.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: When do you sleep? What are you doing?
• 39:02
  Speaker 7: There's very little sleep. And thank God I don't have kids.
• 39:04
  Speaker 7: I just have a chihuahua who's fine with me sitting
• 39:06
  Speaker 7: there and writing all day. But yeah, a lot of
• 39:09
  Speaker 7: it happened. It's an impossible news cycle to find free
• 39:12
  Speaker 7: time in. It's not like we're done at 6 p.m.
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: What made you want to write the book? You obviously
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: have this huge platform where you can say whatever you'd
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: like all the time. What made you want to put
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: a book together?
• 39:25
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it's important to reach different people where
• 39:28
  Speaker 7: they are. I mean, so much of what you guys
• 39:30
  Speaker 7: do at Crooked in terms of your strategy is not
• 39:32
  Speaker 7: just podcasting, but branching out into books yourself and YouTube
• 39:36
  Speaker 7: as well. So it's important to reach people where they are.
• 39:39
  Speaker 7: It's also just personally, it has been a dream of
• 39:42
  Speaker 7: mine for my entire life to actually publish a book.
• 39:43
  Speaker 7: I was an English major in college. So the book
• 39:46
  Speaker 7: is like the top of the mountain here.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: So a big theme of your book is the lessons
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: the Democrats can learn from operating in this sort of
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: unbalanced political landscape where Republicans are constantly lying, spreading misinformation,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: tough field for Democrats to play on. What's your take
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: on how Democrats can sort of balance the field?
• 40:06
  Speaker 7: I think the most important thing is not to confer
• 40:10
  Speaker 7: all the legitimacy onto the mainstream media as if they're
• 40:13
  Speaker 7: advocating for us. I mean, they are so not on
• 40:16
  Speaker 7: our team that they bend over backwards to to show
• 40:19
  Speaker 7: deference to Republicans. I mean, there were, I think something
• 40:22
  Speaker 7: like 69 Hillary's email stories in the lead up to
• 40:25
  Speaker 7: the 2016 election. And so like, these are people who
• 40:29
  Speaker 7: are not only not on our team, but they're broadcasting
• 40:32
  Speaker 7: that they're not on our team. And yet we have
• 40:34
  Speaker 7: independent progressive media like Crooked Media, like what I do,
• 40:37
  Speaker 7: and like so many others in this space who are
• 40:39
  Speaker 7: showing that we are willing and able to pick up
• 40:43
  Speaker 7: the mantle for where the media is dropping the ball.
• 40:46
  Speaker 7: And we have to be able to combat what the
• 40:49
  Speaker 7: right has done. I mean, from the days of Rush
• 40:52
  Speaker 7: Limbaugh all the way to today with Fox News and
• 40:55
  Speaker 7: OAN and Newsmax and Daily Wire and just the vast
• 40:59
  Speaker 7: ecosystem of the right, we have to be able to
• 41:02
  Speaker 7: push back. And by relying solely or only legitimizing mainstream
• 41:07
  Speaker 7: media sources, we're not going to get there.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't even think that they should be on
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: our team because... Look, it's their, their job is to
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: report the news. Their job is not to help Democrats
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: win elections. And I mean, one of the reasons we
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: started Crooked Media was not even like a frustration with
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: the mainstream media, but just like, you know, people are
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: getting their information from different sources. People have like strong
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: opinions about politics. And if you have strong opinions about politics, like,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: you know, decades ago, you would like join your local
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: democratic committee, right? But now people get their information on
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: their phones and it's good to have sort of a
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: community to go to. Is that how you think of
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: your YouTube stuff?
• 41:49
  Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we're so lucky right now to
• 41:52
  Speaker 7: be able to reach people instantly, to get instant feedback
• 41:55
  Speaker 7: and to have an actual connection with people. And I
• 41:57
  Speaker 7: can see what resonates. By the way, as a content creator,
• 42:01
  Speaker 7: I can see what resonates with people, what messages are working,
• 42:04
  Speaker 7: what messengers are working. I can see who my audience
• 42:08
  Speaker 7: wants to hear from. I can see who my audience
• 42:10
  Speaker 7: is deathly bored from hearing from, and I won't name
• 42:13
  Speaker 7: any names, but there are people out there in the
• 42:14
  Speaker 7: Democratic Party. And we have that advantage, especially from a
• 42:19
  Speaker 7: persuasion perspective, that we need to know what works and
• 42:22
  Speaker 7: what doesn't work. And having the internet at our fingertips
• 42:26
  Speaker 7: and having those analytics at our fingertips helps us do
• 42:28
  Speaker 7: exactly that.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: What messages have been working lately?
• 42:32
  Speaker 7: Well, right now, I think it's been great to watch
• 42:35
  Speaker 7: the whole weirdness narrative set in because for so long,
• 42:39
  Speaker 7: it's kind of been bizarre that we haven't been able
• 42:43
  Speaker 7: to land on that. And it is so weird and
• 42:45
  Speaker 7: it seems so obvious in retrospect now that these people
• 42:48
  Speaker 7: are so obsessed with everybody else's lives that they're trying
• 42:51
  Speaker 7: to insert themselves between a woman and her doctor, insert
• 42:54
  Speaker 7: themselves between where Americans can travel, insert themselves between what
• 42:58
  Speaker 7: Americans can read and what they get. I mean, the
• 42:59
  Speaker 7: whole thing is just so weird. And like now that
• 43:02
  Speaker 7: we finally landed on it and, Because we have a
• 43:05
  Speaker 7: growing progressive media ecosystem and these campaigns are strong, that
• 43:10
  Speaker 7: message is able to actually resonate. Whereas before, the left-wing
• 43:14
  Speaker 7: media ecosystem kind of just felt like scattershot attempts at
• 43:19
  Speaker 7: trying to make something stick and it never really did.
• 43:21
  Speaker 7: And it always felt like Republicans went into the morning
• 43:24
  Speaker 7: meeting every day and they came out with their talking
• 43:27
  Speaker 7: points and they were always so organized. And to finally
• 43:30
  Speaker 7: see the tables be turned and it's actually the left
• 43:33
  Speaker 7: That's better organized while the Republicans are dissembling and figuring
• 43:37
  Speaker 7: out whether they're going to hammer away at Trump's message
• 43:40
  Speaker 7: of killer windmills or hammer away at Trump's message of
• 43:44
  Speaker 7: imaginary cannibals or hammer away at sharks or whatever it
• 43:47
  Speaker 7: is has been great to see.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: We've all been coconut pilled here. We've all been walls pilled.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: We've taken all the pills. How are you feeling about
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: the election now? Now that we are in this just crazy,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: crazy moment where three weeks ago we had an entirely
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: different Democratic nominee. Entirely different Democratic ticket.
• 44:05
  Speaker 7: It feels so weird to feel hope. Like, as a Democrat,
• 44:10
  Speaker 7: the last, like, decade, hope has been so fleeting. And,
• 44:15
  Speaker 7: you know, you find what moments you can, few and
• 44:17
  Speaker 7: far in between. But, look, obviously, we have to be
• 44:21
  Speaker 7: vigilant as we head toward November. But I think at
• 44:23
  Speaker 7: the same time, we can kind of enjoy the moment
• 44:26
  Speaker 7: that we're in. And I think that it couldn't be
• 44:28
  Speaker 7: going better right now, which, as a Democrat, is a
• 44:31
  Speaker 7: very foreign... concept.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Knock on all the wood.
• 44:34
  Speaker 7: Knock on all the wood. A very foreign concept to me,
• 44:36
  Speaker 7: but it could not be going better than it is
• 44:38
  Speaker 7: right now. And the fact that Trump is falling apart
• 44:42
  Speaker 7: to the extent that he is right now has been
• 44:45
  Speaker 7: a testament to that, I think. And even with this
• 44:48
  Speaker 7: debate stuff has put it especially into particular focus because
• 44:52
  Speaker 7: Donald Trump's whole shtick thus far has been that he's
• 44:57
  Speaker 7: a strong man, right? That he's tough. And he's not particularly...
• 45:00
  Speaker 7: adept at policy or foreign, like domestic policy, foreign policy.
• 45:04
  Speaker 7: He's not a good speaker. He's not good at governing.
• 45:08
  Speaker 7: He's not good at managing people. But what he had
• 45:10
  Speaker 7: was the toughness, the strongman vibes. And when he refused
• 45:16
  Speaker 7: to debate Kamala Harris on September 10th for ABC News,
• 45:20
  Speaker 7: And the Harris campaign leaned in on this. And that
• 45:24
  Speaker 7: kind of enveloped the narrative for days and days and days.
• 45:28
  Speaker 7: It showed that she took away the last thing that
• 45:30
  Speaker 7: he had left. And what he was left looking like
• 45:33
  Speaker 7: was just deflated and defeated and weak. And I know
• 45:37
  Speaker 7: that you guys talk about this a lot. And this
• 45:38
  Speaker 7: is especially Dan Pfeiffer's focus here with MessageBox and whatnot.
• 45:42
  Speaker 7: But our job is not to always point out that
• 45:47
  Speaker 7: Trump is trying to be a strongman because that actually
• 45:49
  Speaker 7: plays into his hands. It's that, in fact, he's weak.
• 45:52
  Speaker 7: And this was the first time that was really, really
• 45:55
  Speaker 7: put on full display to the extent that the entire
• 45:57
  Speaker 7: country was able to see it.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't love being mocked either, as most strongmen
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: do not. Before we go, one of my favorite anecdotes
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: comes near the end of the book. It's about how
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: you convinced your mother, who never had any interest in
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: politics and believed the entire system was corrupt, to vote
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: for the first time in 60 years during the 2020 election.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Not only that, she voted for Joe Biden and Democrats
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: down ballot. What advice would you give listeners who want
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: to encourage someone in their life who might be cynical
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: about politics or skeptical about politics to go out there
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: and vote?
• 46:30
  Speaker 7: So the story I like to tell is actually about Wisconsin.
• 46:34
  Speaker 7: And Wisconsin's oftentimes the tipping point state. In 2020, the
• 46:37
  Speaker 7: difference between a Biden win and a Trump win was
• 46:40
  Speaker 7: two votes per precinct. That's it. And so if you're
• 46:43
  Speaker 7: looking for a proof point that we have agency here,
• 46:47
  Speaker 7: it's that all it would have taken for Donald Trump
• 46:48
  Speaker 7: to win Wisconsin in 2020, the tipping point state would
• 46:51
  Speaker 7: be flipping two people per precinct. And everybody has somebody
• 46:55
  Speaker 7: in their lives who doesn't vote. When I asked my sister,
• 46:58
  Speaker 7: I think it was in 2018, when there was the
• 47:01
  Speaker 7: gubernatorial race, if she was voting for governor, her response was,
• 47:04
  Speaker 7: what's a governor? And if somebody in my family can
• 47:09
  Speaker 7: be at that position, then I know that there are
• 47:11
  Speaker 7: people listening and watching who have those people in their
• 47:14
  Speaker 7: lives too. So look, I'm not asking everybody to do everything,
• 47:18
  Speaker 7: but we are asking everybody to do something. And in
• 47:21
  Speaker 7: that case, it's just a matter of finding one or
• 47:24
  Speaker 7: two people in your lives who wouldn't otherwise be able to,
• 47:27
  Speaker 7: wouldn't think that it was worth it, that it would
• 47:29
  Speaker 7: have any impact to participate in this election and make
• 47:32
  Speaker 7: those people your responsibility.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: You want to stick around for a game of Take Appreciator?
• 47:37
  Speaker 7: Let's do it.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: I think we're doing the blind ranking test. Let's do it.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: We're going to be right back with Lovett to play
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: a game. And we're back. Hi.
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: Hi.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: I'm John Lovett.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: I'm here because we're going to play a game. Yeah,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: we are.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: So welcome. So welcome.
• 47:59
  Speaker 6: To blind take rankings, here's how it works. I'm going
• 48:01
  Speaker 6: to read you five takes.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: Pretty shameless takes, if you ask me. Oh.
• 48:06
  Speaker 7: See what you did there.
• 48:06
  Speaker 6: Brian and John, you must rank these takes from least
• 48:08
  Speaker 6: egregious to most egregious. So five is the least egregious.
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: One is the most egregious. Here's the catch. You must
• 48:14
  Speaker 6: rank the takes as they come, and you don't know
• 48:16
  Speaker 6: what's coming next. So try not to use that number
• 48:18
  Speaker 6: one spot too early.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: All right. Are you ready?
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Let's do it.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: So ready.
• 48:23
  Speaker 6: Take number one, and here it is. Tim Walz is
• 48:27
  Speaker 6: an MSNBC anchor's idea of a folksy politician who can
• 48:31
  Speaker 6: appeal to middle America. Quite a take about a man
• 48:35
  Speaker 6: who tricked us into believing he wasn't a coastal elite
• 48:37
  Speaker 6: by being born in Nebraska and grazing a family, coaching
• 48:41
  Speaker 6: a team, and serving the country in Minnesota.
• 48:45
  Speaker 7: Just playing that long game, you know?
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:48
  Speaker 7: What makes this even more egregious is I think it
• 48:50
  Speaker 7: was written by a writer for the National Review.
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Rich Lowry is just a real... They both know
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: the take. I mean, come on. Elijah's like, oh, that's
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: an easy one.
• 49:02
  Speaker 6: It's not about guess the take.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: It's about ranking the take.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: I know, sometimes we just like to show off our knowledge.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: I know, and it's impressive.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give it a four.
• 49:09
  Speaker 7: I think we're in agreement here.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: It's not that.
• 49:12
  Speaker 7: It's kind of a lazy... It's kind of a reach.
• 49:14
  Speaker 7: It's kind of a lazy.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: Also, and I'm stealing this from someone else, but you
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: know who's MSNBC's idea of, no, what, how, what was
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: it again?
• 49:22
  Speaker 6: An MSNBC anchors idea of a folksy politician who can
• 49:25
  Speaker 6: appeal to middle America.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: He's a J.D.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Vance. Someone put a picture of J.D. Vance.
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 49:31
  Speaker 6: Take number two. The best thing that can happen for
• 49:34
  Speaker 6: long-term supporters of the democratic party is for this election
• 49:37
  Speaker 6: to be a massive loss for the party. That's the
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: only way the party will reform itself. Consider how the
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: party shut down competition in the primary, misled the public
• 49:45
  Speaker 6: about the health of the president, chose its nominee without
• 49:48
  Speaker 6: a democratic process, and ultimately today selected its VP. When
• 49:51
  Speaker 6: something is totally and fundamentally broken, the best thing to
• 49:53
  Speaker 6: do is to start over. We won't see a reboot
• 49:56
  Speaker 6: of the party unless it takes a massive loss in
• 49:58
  Speaker 6: this election.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: That is such poor concern trolling. Yeah. It's just not...
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: I'm like giving that a.
• 50:05
  Speaker 7: I would say three for that one.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: I'm giving it a.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: Five because I feel like they did such a poor
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: job of trying to have a really, like to piss
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: you off with a take. It doesn't even piss me off.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: It's just stupid.
• 50:15
  Speaker 7: I would agree with that. I think this is something
• 50:17
  Speaker 7: that Trump is trying to shoehorn into the narrative, that
• 50:20
  Speaker 7: Republicans are trying to shoehorn into the narrative. First of all,
• 50:22
  Speaker 7: to like undermine the whole coup narrative. It's like, well,
• 50:25
  Speaker 7: you think we did a coup.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: That's a coup.
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 50:28
  Speaker 7: But it's also like, we're good.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: We're fine.
• 50:30
  Speaker 7: It's them who are mad about everything.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: That's why they're so mad. They're mad that we're so happy,
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 50:36
  Speaker 7: They hate to see us happy.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: They hate to see us happy.
• 50:38
  Speaker 7: They don't want to see us in a ray.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: They don't want to see us in a ray. So
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: I needed an agreement here. Three or five?
• 50:43
  Speaker 7: I'd say five.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: We're saying five. We're saying five.
• 50:46
  Speaker 6: That was Bill Ackman. Bill Ackman! He spoke at the
• 50:50
  Speaker 6: Republican National Convention.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: If I had known that, I might have bumped it
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: up to a three.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Next up, this is a headline.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: Here it is.
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: Democrats could regret calling Trump and his supporters weird. Could
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: regret it. Could come to regret it. I'll read you
• 51:06
  Speaker 6: a passage from the op-ed. I don't know what is
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: sufficient for Harris to win, but I sure know what
• 51:12
  Speaker 6: is necessary. A message that is dignity affirming for working
• 51:15
  Speaker 6: class Americans, not dignity destroying. Oh, this is a campaign
• 51:20
  Speaker 6: that descends into name calling. No one beats Trump.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: In that arena.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Two, two, two.
• 51:25
  Speaker 7: I agree with that.
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: That is getting a two.
• 51:27
  Speaker 7: These are one of these takes that comes in a vacuum.
• 51:31
  Speaker 7: Like they haven't been around or awake for the last
• 51:34
  Speaker 7: eight years. And all of a sudden it's the Hillary
• 51:37
  Speaker 7: Clinton or it's the Michelle Obama when they go low.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Yes. Well, dignity affirming. Much like J.D. Vance and Donald Trump.
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 51:49
  Speaker 7: The whole tack was that they're out there using their
• 51:52
  Speaker 7: voice for workers. Was that what it was?
• 51:54
  Speaker 6: I think it was more that, you know, it's sort of,
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: I think, a more of a they go low situation.
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: And that comes from Thomas Friedman. Thomas Friedman.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: Of course it does. Tough take.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Of course it does.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: Tough take.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Heard that one in an Uber.
• 52:10
  Speaker 6: It's also like.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: In Jakarta.
• 52:12
  Speaker 6: It's also just like the kind of thing where it's like,
• 52:17
  Speaker 6: You know that thing that seems to be making Republicans
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: insane while delighting every Democrat from Joe Manchin AOC?
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's working.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 52:28
  Speaker 7: Also, also, like they're going to regret calling them weird.
• 52:31
  Speaker 7: What's what skeletons are in our closet that haven't come
• 52:34
  Speaker 7: out yet that would make all of a sudden. Kamala
• 52:36
  Speaker 7: Harris and Tim Wall seem weird relative to someone like J.D.
• 52:38
  Speaker 7: Vance and Donald Trump.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Also, we may lose this election. If we do, I'm
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: not going to go back and be like, it was
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: weird that we shouldn't have done that.
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: No. No.
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: It was not picking Josh Shapiro.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Just kidding, everybody.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: You know where my head's at.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: You know where.
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: My head's at.
• 52:54
  Speaker 6: Next up, this is a short one again, just a take,
• 52:57
  Speaker 6: not a headline. It's in response to the Wall's pick.
• 53:00
  Speaker 6: The quote is, no Jews allowed at the top of
• 53:03
  Speaker 6: the Democratic Party.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: This is quite a take.
• 53:07
  Speaker 7: What do we have left? We have one and three,
• 53:10
  Speaker 7: I think.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: One and three? I think it's one and three.
• 53:13
  Speaker 7: We have one and three.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's got to be three.
• 53:16
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I would agree with that. Also, like, no juice
• 53:18
  Speaker 7: on top of the different party. I think Chuck Schumer
• 53:20
  Speaker 7: even quote tweeted that. When Chuck Schumer is dunking on you.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: It's a good dunk.
• 53:25
  Speaker 6: Chuck Schumer saw that, bagel fell right out of his mouth.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: I can say that.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: That's allowed. Also, he saw that and was like, we
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: got to get tweeting before... Doug Emhoff does it first. Yeah.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Because there's a little friendly rivalry there. Who's the.
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: And if it wasn't Saturday.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: Who's really at the top of the Democratic Party.
• 53:44
  Speaker 6: And if it wasn't Saturday, Josh Shapiro could have been
• 53:45
  Speaker 6: at it, too. Because he's... I guess, no, not top.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: He's not top of the party. I know. Remember when
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: there was that article.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Second gentleman versus Senate majority leaders.
• 53:52
  Speaker 7: To your dismay.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Chuck probably wins that one, but... Yeah, no, for sure.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: Well, there was that article. Yeah, there was a profile.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: There was a profile that called him... Of Doug that... Although,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: you know what?
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Doug's moving up.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Well, if Doug's first gentleman... First gentleman. First gentleman versus
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Senate Majority Leader.
• 54:06
  Speaker 6: You know, it's got the president's ear, you know.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: It's a powerful, powerful job.
• 54:13
  Speaker 6: Edith Wilson ran the country, much like Jill is doing today.
• 54:17
  Speaker 7: Jesus Christ. What?
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: It's over.
• 54:20
  Speaker 7: Next time.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: You and Christy Jackson still fighting the wars.
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: If Walz, just kidding everybody. If Walz is running against Obama.
• 54:30
  Speaker 6: He'd totally do a birth certificate joke At no time
• 54:33
  Speaker 6: in living memory has there been any such thing as
• 54:36
  Speaker 6: going lower than Democrats are willing to go.
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: It's not possible.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Wait, wait.
• 54:42
  Speaker 6: What?
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: This is about the couch joke?
• 54:46
  Speaker 6: Can't go lower than that.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: That is the lowest.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: That is the bottom.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad we saved one. I'm so glad. I
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: feel so good about this.
• 54:53
  Speaker 7: But you said the birth certificate thing, right? That was
• 54:55
  Speaker 7: part of it?
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 54:55
  Speaker 7: So the example that they use is literally example that
• 54:59
  Speaker 7: they use.
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: And is worse.
• 55:01
  Speaker 7: And is worse.
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: That's a good point.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: That's a good point.
• 55:03
  Speaker 6: Philosophically, he's saying Democrats could not go lower than this.
• 55:06
  Speaker 6: It is equivalent of the things Republicans do.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: That's such a good point.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Here's what's driving me. I have not talked about this yet.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: The couch joke complaints. Mm-hmm. If Tim Walls had got
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: up there and was giving a riff and said something
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: about a couch and was like, you heard about the couch, right?
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: You heard about J.D. Vance and the couch? J.D.
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: Vance fucked a couch.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Or even like insinuated that he did. That
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: would be one thing. I'd still think it was a funny,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: but like we could at least have that debate. He
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: just said a word that was like a signal to
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: a certain group of very online people, us, who are
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: the coach. And that's it.
• 55:40
  Speaker 7: The fact that they got so mad is also telling
• 55:42
  Speaker 7: on themselves. But he didn't spread the disinformation. He just
• 55:46
  Speaker 7: nodded to a joke that's out there. And it was
• 55:48
  Speaker 7: smart because if you didn't know the joke, it would
• 55:50
  Speaker 7: still work. It just sounds like he's lazy.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: If you didn't know the joke. He was not spreading
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: any kind of misinformation or disinformation because if you hadn't
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: heard it, you would have had no fucking idea what
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: he was talking about.
• 56:00
  Speaker 6: And it still makes sense. You're just saying, oh, the
• 56:02
  Speaker 6: guy must be on his couch hanging out. And I
• 56:04
  Speaker 6: think the reason it drove them so crazy is because
• 56:07
  Speaker 6: if somebody doesn't understand it and hasn't heard it, to
• 56:10
  Speaker 6: explain it, you sound unhinged.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: And you have to. Someone made up a story about
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: the J.D. Vance fucking a couch. So he said he
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: talked about him getting up off a couch.
• 56:21
  Speaker 7: I think the reason that it hurts so much.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Are you upset? Are you upset yet? Did that get
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: you angry?
• 56:28
  Speaker 7: The reason it hurts so much, too, is, yes, it's
• 56:31
  Speaker 7: not true, but, like, the fact that so many people
• 56:33
  Speaker 7: believed it could be is a pretty poor reflection on J.D.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: Vance. But it's like, yeah, of course Democrats shouldn't also
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: spread disinformation, right? Like, everyone's like, whoa, now you think you... No,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: we shouldn't. That's not what he did. That's not what
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: he did.
• 56:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, look, the fact that J.D.
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: Vance was born in Canada is not even something we've
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: been bringing up. No, no.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: We've been very... We've been... We'll let them fight that out.
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're not going to. That's their business.
• 56:54
  Speaker 6: I don't know that for a fact.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe Trump will drop him from the ticket when he
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: finds out.
• 56:57
  Speaker 7: Don't say that too much.
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: I don't actually want it to happen.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Well, let's do a, let's, so that's it.
• 57:07
  Speaker 6: Did anybody, did any of the many people in this
• 57:09
  Speaker 6: room keep track of the rankings?
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: Anybody?
• 57:12
  Speaker 6: Did a single person in here, I see four laptops.
• 57:15
  Speaker 6: Did anybody type out the order?
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: I think I remember. I think I remember. Okay. Number one.
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: No, you start with five.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, I'm just trying to go with my fucking memory.
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: The fifth was your first. You said folksy. No, no, no,
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: that was. No, you didn't. No. Okay.
• 57:30
  Speaker 6: In fifth, you said the concern trolling was fifth. Tim
• 57:35
  Speaker 6: Walz being a folksy politician in the minds of an
• 57:37
  Speaker 6: MSNBC anchor was fourth. Democrats could regret calling Trump in
• 57:41
  Speaker 6: his support was weird.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: That's two.
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: That was two.
• 57:44
  Speaker 6: No Jews allowed at the top of the Democratic Party. Three.
• 57:47
  Speaker 6: And number one.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Nice job.
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: Number one.
• 57:50
  Speaker 6: Democrats can never sink lower than this couch illusion. It's
• 57:55
  Speaker 6: the Democratic equivalent of a joke Republicans constantly make.
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: And that's going to be number one.
• 58:01
  Speaker 7: I'm totally fine with that list. That's exactly what I
• 58:03
  Speaker 7: would have done.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: That's a good list.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: Hey, everyone. Go buy Shameless, Brian's book. Please go buy
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: the book. You can get it anywhere books are sold.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: Anywhere you get your books online.
• 58:11
  Speaker 7: That's right.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Or in real life. August 13th.
• 58:14
  Speaker 7: August 13th is out, but it's available for pre-order now.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: All right. Help our buddy Brian out. Thanks for coming by.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Love it. Thanks for that fantastic game.
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: What a delight. Thanks to Elijah on the ones and twos.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: Everyone have a great weekend. We'll see you next week.
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: Thanks, everybody.
• 58:31
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  Speaker 1: is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is David Toledo.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Our associate producers are Saul Rubin and Farrah Safari. Reid
• 59:03
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• 59:06
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