Latest / Pod Therapy / #435: Highly Sensitive Person, Surface Level Friendships, Wins and Losses as Therapists

Transcript

#435: Highly Sensitive Person, Surface Level Friendships, Wins and Losses as Therapists · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You spun it around. I always believe in your golf.
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  Speaker 3: That was just a that could be any of us,
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  Speaker 2: All right, So we've got some great questions for today's show,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: and we are leading off the order with very Sensitive
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Person and ADHD.
• 8:22
  Speaker 6: Hi.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Guys love the show. YadA YadA, pew pew Texas Boo boo.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I've been armchair diagnosed by several friends is having ADHD
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: and commiserated with them over experiences of what they label
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: as rejection sensitive dysphoria. I've also been armchair diagnosed as
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: a very sensitive person a VSP. And I've experienced intense
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: discomfort at being overstimulated on loud environments. So maybe I
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: have misophonia as well. I've read up on those terms,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: and my understanding is that none of these qualify as
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: actual scientific descriptions in professional parlance, but more of a
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: handy term that people throw around.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: That is exactly the question I was gearing up to
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: ask there.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: It is I'm curious, how seriously do you take R
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: s D and VSP I feel like be it. I
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: feel like it would be I feel like be it
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: would give me some relief to classify my experience. But
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: at the same time, a part of me is critical
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: of that sentiment and thinks that I should just accept
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: that I have many different personality traits and giving them
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: a medicalized term is sort of a cop out. What
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: do y'all think, signed big a do crimes?
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Boy?
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: So we go through some of just what these things are.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, some of these I'm not even familiar with. Yeah,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: they're kind.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: Of kind of newer in my worlds, like hearing it
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: from clients in prins.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: So working in addictions, it's going to be another eight
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: to ten years, right, Yeah, anything in our lexicon.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Really, yeah, you know, and I'm seeing it every though,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: like this stuff highly sensitive person, very sensitive person, these
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: new acronyms, rejection, sensitive dysphoria, Like I'm starting to I
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: was doing a deep dive into research about narcissistic personality
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: disorder because I keep hearing about sub variance of it,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: like covert narcissism, narcissism, and so it was like, all right,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: how how scientific are those terms or is it just
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: like because like obviously it's not.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: In the d s M.
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Well that's the thing because a lot of these things,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: you don't know if this is coming from scientific research
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: or this is coming from pop culture. Pop culture, and
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: people are just like, oh, I kind of created this
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: new way.
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: Everyone they have also diagnosed, so maybe everyone.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: And I noticed that it's my own, my own personal
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: type of narcissist.
• 10:46
  Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, yeah, it's not like whatever. It's like a
• 10:56
  Speaker 6: much bigger deal, like you probably wouldn't even get it.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, nicosistic. I like that he's a nicosist.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: No, but this happens a lot, and like the pop culture,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I think like it percolates up into professionals. And I
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: think a lot of it's because therapists are, like we're
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: scholars and like we do like clinical work and research,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: but like we're very ground level, and so I think
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: we're easily influenced. When we hear like thirty people in
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: a month bring up malignant narcissism and we think we
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: have a working definition of it, it just becomes this
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: like colloquial way to describe a problem the next time
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: you're talking to somebody, And I think that that accidentally
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: causes it to be legitimized, and then people repeat it
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: and they say, oh, my therapist thinks I'm a highly
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: sensitive person or I have rejection sensitive dysphoria, and like
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: by medicalizing it.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: It validates it. And so there's this weird feedback loop.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Right between like the people coming up with concepts, it
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: getting popularized in media and books, and then I think
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: at the clinical level, we start repeating these phrases a lot,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: and that causes everybody to feel like, okay, so this
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: is legitimate.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and it kind of falls into what bay
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Do Crimes is asking.
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: They're like, is this just a description or is this really.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Part of ADHD or autism or whatever neurodivergence I guess,
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: And this is again kind of going off with Jim
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: just said, not based in a lot of research science,
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: Like this is just personal opinion from a therapist dealing
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: with this clients again, friends, all of that. It seems
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: to me like the rejection sensitive dysphoria is something that
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: seems to be coming up.
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: With people who also have ADHD.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: But I also looked into it some and it can
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: be related to trauma too, Like it's bringing up perfectionism,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: it's bringing up hey, I, Uh, well, I guess abandonment
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: and things like that from childhood, because that rejection you're
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: experiencing in small amounts or odd amounts randomly throughout your
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: life as you grow older feel really impactful because something
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: impactful happened when you were young and you couldn't really
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: process it. Then it's almost like you're trying to process
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: it now or re experience.
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: So I don't know that it really is tied to ADHD.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: I think it stems more from trauma and that could
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: be from symptoms you had of ADHD as a kid
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: that that led people to abandon you or you know
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: that sounds really harsh intermingled.
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's I guess what I'm trying to say. And so.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: I hate to say that I know your BA do crimes.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: You're kind of looking for some validation maybe in like man.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: On one hand, it would feel nice to have this
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: be official, like oh, yep, RSV is tied to ADHD
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: and this all checks out. But I feel like, at
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: least right now, it's just a uh a description of
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: another symptom happening that seems to be tied TODD, but
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: it's not really officially Like.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Well and I agree with you there. I do think
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: it's a description of a symptom, and I think it's
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: actually really important because like some of the gatekeeping of
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: mental health kind of gets annoying sometimes. You know, we're
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: like we get the dsms right, and they're they're only
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: made by like I think the American Psychiatric Association, and
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: so they get to create their own committees to do this.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: So like honestly, psychiatry gets to decide most of this,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Like they don't even ask the social workers or the
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: mft CPCs. So like there's already a lot of gatekeeping
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: that goes into all that a lot of you yeah,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: that's fair.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: But there are some There are actually a lot of
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: social workers if you read through like they're part of it. Yeah,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the committees. Yeah, if you've ever like the committees when they.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: Open that book, wheah, Yeah, yeah, stick to the criteria.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: So okay, it's pretty intermixed. Then it's pretty they.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Do pretty well, at least with social workers. I see
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of social workers on there.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Psychologists get in there as well, but there is some
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: gatekeeping for the diagnostics that I think we're always like
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: moving a lot slower than the public, Like benefits from
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: sometimes about all this, and so I don't think it's
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: necessarily wrong to democratize the descriptions that people go through
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: and when they can create these patterns that they're like, Hey,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: tens of thousands of us really to this particular set.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Giving that a name is fine. I don't want to
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: pathologize it and turn it into a disease. I think
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: there's a threshold we have to be careful with. But
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: I'm great with coming up with shorthand ways to describe
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: human experiences and like, that's fine, And I feel like
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: that's actually pretty consistent with psychology over time too. Like
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: sometimes though, I do think it fucking gets out of control,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: like when people are like Machiavellian traits and ship like that,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: shit pisses me off.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: What about Narciss's part of Yeah, I'm surprised to hear you.
• 15:33
  Speaker 7: Say this, because this is not a stance that I
• 15:35
  Speaker 7: that I would have thought you would take. Okay, so
• 15:38
  Speaker 7: just stick with narcissistic personality disorder that when people say
• 15:42
  Speaker 7: this over and over again, I've heard all of you
• 15:45
  Speaker 7: harp on.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: You don't like this diagnosing over over television. You don't
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: like saying that Yo, so and so is a narcissist
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: or whatever. How is this different?
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I may have an analogy. G I think that perspective
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: donkey basketball. Maybe I can find a way basketball appreciate it.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Give me what's on my mind first. By the end,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I'll see if I can tie it back into donkey basketball,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: which is a real thing. Look it up, has been proven. Okay.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like you've got in football. You've got
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: your position. You got your quarterback. Okay, that's the name
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: of the position. We all understand, we all agree, all right.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: The people who are deep into football will say, okay,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: but there's different types of quarterbacks, right, there's the scrambling
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: quarterback quarterback. Yeah, there's the hockey passers, right. But but
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: they're not different. But that's just it. They're not. The
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: position is quarterback. That's the name, that's what called it.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: But yeah, but do it different as as fans or
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: as commentators or as coaches whatever. They've created different categories
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: based off of these different types that they've got, but
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: it's not like an official name.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, does that sound that makes sense?
• 17:11
  Speaker 7: It does, But I don't think that's what we're talking
• 17:15
  Speaker 7: about here.
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: I think a different question because.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: I was just I'll be honest, I was still looking
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: at Donkey basketball, so I was I was not paying it.
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: I'm glad you moved on to basketball. It was getting uncomfortable.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I think I understand your question.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: The democratization of it is what throws me on with it.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: So I'm okay, okay. So this is where.
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: If everybody is if everybody decides that someone is a narcissist, right,
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: they're not necessarily a narcissist.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna put that one in a different box
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: because like personality disorders I have a special beef with,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: but like the democratization of people coming up with ways
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: to describe their lived experiences and borrowingcology language to do that,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm very comfortable with that. Where as long as
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: we understand that this is a subclinical phrasing. I don't
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: think that anyone understands that. That's where the mistake is.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: So that's when I get this question though. That's that's
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: what big is asking, Like, Hey, I resonate with these terms,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: but I also listen to your show, and I respect
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: that there's a lane.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: What do I do with this?
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: And so here's my asking and ask directly, like, what
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: do you guys think of these terms?
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: My best take on this is I'm very comfortable with
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: people finding personal connection with different phrasings, Like we now
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: have these other ways that we like attachment styles, right,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: that's not a DSM concept, it's it's but there is
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: a branch of relationship theory that postulates their styles, and
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: here you go, here's an introversion and extraversion like those
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: are not technically scientific concepts, but like they're broad descriptors
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: or like Meyer's brigshit, which is just completely bullshit. But like,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: sure it has a purpose if somebody uses that model
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: to describe who they are and they resonate with that.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: If it allows you to describe yourself in ways to
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: have better self awareness and then to live your life
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: more skillfully because you identify a certain way, and then
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: other people who identify give you tips and say, hey,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: here's how I, as another IFJ do this, or here's
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: how I, as a person who is a highly sensitive
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: person does this. I'm great with all of it. What
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I dislike is whenever it becomes so infused into your identity,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: and this can happen with genuine mental health disorders too,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: like ADHD like part of my six hour deep dive
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: is like, hey, this is why this shouldn't be an identity.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: You should think about this carefully. That's where I get
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: worried about it. So when the public gets misinformed to
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: believe that these are all these high level, legitimate clinical diagnostics,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: there's a distraction effect where they start to pathologize as society.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: It pathologizes normal human traits that are not diseases but
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: are tendencies, and that gets dangerous because then people seek
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: to like get medicine or use other things and like
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: they maladapt. That isn't helpful. If it's helpful for them
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: to describe their lives and they can use that to
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: positively adapt, great.
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: I think labeling is close enough to pathologizing that for
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: a lot of people it might not matter. Like that
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: difference might not matter. It's a very subtle difference because.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying that, like I am yo X.
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: Just putting that label on there changes it.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm a very sensitive person.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: So I'm a very sensitive person now that that is
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: a that is I have just created a lane for myself.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: But also like it's it's interesting because just using that
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: one as an example, you know, if I would say
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I'm a very sensitive person, I don't think anything of
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: it until when you start saying the VSP when I
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: started breathing.
• 20:44
  Speaker 7: Because like introvert extrovert, Like, let's let's go with the
• 20:47
  Speaker 7: lower stakes thing. Like you can say that I'm an extrovert,
• 20:51
  Speaker 7: but then I can sit here and tell you all
• 20:52
  Speaker 7: of the introverted qualities that that I know that I have,
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: which is why and that's why none of like this
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: matters to me as much as does Okay, saying very
• 21:02
  Speaker 7: sensitive person, cool, Yeah, that registers to me the same
• 21:07
  Speaker 7: as someone saying like, well, I'm an extrovert.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Here's my difference. I'm saying very same volume, same sure bubble.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I'm very comfortable with anybody telling me I'm a highly
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: sensitive person. I'm an extrovert, im insurance, I have just
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: attachment style. I'm an avoid attachment. I'm fine with all that.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: What what pisses me off historically is when people self
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: diagnose or internet diagnose named diseases. Okay, so when you
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: walk around and say, I saw a TikTok video, I
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: relate to these thirty five things I have ADHD.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Now I'm gonna go get stimulants. Now I'm gonna go
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: get amphetamines and I'm gonna change my life. Holy shit,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: I'm concerned you didn't talk to a profession right or
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: self diagnosed with autism or self That stuff scares me
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: because it becomes this pop culture phenomenon that I'm gonna
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: describe who I am in my identity and a lot
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: of normal, benign like traits that humans just do as
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: this disease that we actually treat.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: And should be do that with your leg, right, you
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: wouldn't say like, oops, my leg, I'm going to splint it. Yeah,
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna take care of it. If you thought you
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: broke your leg, you'd go get real professional.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: That's help.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't just walk around and be like, oh the
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: reason I run slow is because I have a broken leg.
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, no, because I have a broken leg.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: But these subclinicals that begay do crimes is talking about
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I'm fine with people self identifying with that because it's
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: subclinical because you're not getting into the lane of like
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: identified disease. You're just using words, and I'm fine with
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: those words. They're sounding more and more scientific, and know
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: that I think you have to really know that there
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: is a differentiation there.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, and that's important too, And that might
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: just be something that you're it's very easy for you
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: to know that it's not those words like these aren't
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: these official words.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know what is and is not. Like,
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: if you is narcissistic personal personality disorder something that shows
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: up in the d s M, it does.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's weird gray box because personality disorders are diagnosable.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: They're real, right, but they're also in this fluffy like
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: blurry zone where other disorders we diagnose based on your suffering. Right,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: you're depressed, you're anxious. Here's what I'm going through, Doc,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: I need help with these other people. It's diagnosed about
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: how other people feel around them, right, Like, and I'm
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: starting to look into the scientific literature about like covert narcissism,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: malignant narcissism, narcissism. I've I converted on this because I
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: was on team. This sounds like pop psych bullshit, and
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: so I'm feeling icky about it because it's already a
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: really sensitive topic and it feels weaponized. And so I
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: was like, look, if you think somebody.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Suffers with a disease of narcissic personality disorder, then they
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: deserve treatment, not scorn, right, And so I didn't like
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: that it was being weaponized. But then I started looking
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: into the scientific literature about it, and I realized these
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: newer coined terms like malignant narcissist and covert narcissist are
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: relatively new. But in the scientific literature they used to
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: have terms like vulnerable narcissist, and it was like somebody
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: who elicits pity and like, but they're still they have
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the fundamental traits, but they're not grandiose, they're not necessarily extravert.
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: Right, It's not what we think in the Jack.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Vampire Energy vampire. Yeah, it's the sense of like it
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: always is to be about me.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I am special, like the world owes me something.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: It's always perscatory and so and I looked at it
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: and I thought, Okay, I get why we're calling that narcissism,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: and I appreciate that there's a subtype of flavor of
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: it and that is confound, like the scientific literature does
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: support that. But for me, I had to go through that.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Process to validate it because I.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Was hearing it too much.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: In the just except but now was that? But that
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: wasn't always in the d s M.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Right, Narcissistic personal disorder is, but not these subtypes?
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: No, was it?
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: Was it always?
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Though? Well none of them?
• 24:38
  Speaker 7: Okay, So my question is like did it was it
• 24:42
  Speaker 7: a social thing first that then became something that has
• 24:47
  Speaker 7: a clinical definition?
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Most they started as an observation.
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm just thinking like words like fiction, like you.
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: Have regular yeah too.
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: And so then doesn't that make it really matter what
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: the colloquial terms are and.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Aren't If enough people agree, it should be like Webster's Dictionary, Right,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: you can vote to get something added to the DSM.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like you kind of can't. That
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: would be hilarious, Like there's a people's champion that like
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: can be voted up.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: But it sounds like if everybody just starts saying it
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: like trump deraanchment syndrome exact.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: I mean why not we should do that for May?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: It should be like March madness, but it should be
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: like mental health madness for May. And then there's like
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: a bracket for words, and we just let the voters like.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Have a word to be honest, So, Jacob, I think
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: that would come with studies behind it, right, so people
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: would start using it and be like wow, I notice
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: people are really sensitive and then we're going to start
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: studying it and then decide okay, yeah.
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: When it started with yeah, right a description.
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I can't see any issue with like, uh,
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: you know, an industry that polices itself, that has drug
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: companies and money behind it wanting to treat new patients.
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: I can't see that being any kind of issue.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: You worry about it, But I mean the yeah, we've
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: talked about this before, you know, it was like what
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: is the point of having a diagnosis, And we've talked
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: about like, well, it's kind of needed for billing, it's
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: needed for this, it's for this. And the point that
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I was like to remind people is like, well, it's
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: also needed for research, because if we're going to do research,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: we have to be able to say that this population
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: share these symptoms. So we have to give this a
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: name so that we can research this, and we have
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: to be able to separate these people from these people,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: because if people from this group come over into here,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: then it's going to mix with our results and we're
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: not going to get a good Yeah we're not gonna
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: have good science, right. But then like you can get
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: into the weeds, like with narcissism, and you can say,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you know, like they all share these symptoms, but this group,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: these people over here are just a little bit different
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: and almost seems like it's like they don't quite fit
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: into this group. And so you can continue to break
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: it down further and further and further, and you just
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: are going to get all of these little subgroups which
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: there's value to. Yeah, I'm good that.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: I think that's how we got a lot of subtype
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: for a lot of diseases. One of the big things
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: that also I think gets into this b Gato crimes.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: That is part of the difficulty is that in mental health,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: our diagnoses work backwards. And this is something we have
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: to teach our grad students all the time. Is like
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: in regular medsurge health, when you say, oh, you have
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: a I'm having all the stomach pain, dock, where's it
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: coming from? We do an X ray and we realize
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: you've got diverticulitis. Like, okay, diverticulitis has been happening in
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: your abdomen, that's the cause of your pain. The symptom
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: was caused by the cause. Well, in mental health, it's
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: the exact opposite. All of our diagnoses are clusters of symptoms.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: And when we describe it as depression, we're not saying
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: depression is the cause of these things you've been experiencing.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: We're saying anhedonia plus suicidal ideation plus six months or
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: longer plus low you know, all these things, hypersomnia, all
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: these other criteria, weight gain or weight loss, of all this,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: we cluster that together and we call that major depressive disorder.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: You're hearing voices, audio hallucinations, delusions, we call that schizophrenia.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: That's not schizophrenia cause this. And this is where the
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: upside down topsy turvy problem of pop pop psyche culture
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: gets in the way because they'll say, you have ADHD,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: that's the reason why you're all these other things, and
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, no, no, no. ADHD is a word
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: we came up with to describe a cluster of symptoms,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: right like if we see all those in the same place,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: same time. For research purposes and for clinical purposes, we
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: gave that a name. And that's where like I get
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: a little pissy because people are like, oh, I have
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: hyper highly sensitive person. That's why I'm all these other things.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: And it's like, don't do that. But I'm comfortable with
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: you saying I'm the kind of person who should be
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: described as highly sensitive person.
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: Here's what that means, that differentiation.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I do too. That's a great way to explain that.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: I find that a lot of these kind of like.
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: Pop would you call it pop pop psych? Pop psych?
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: There we go a lot of terms like that. It's
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: really people seeking connection. Yeah, and especially being sensitive I think,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: or maybe overly sensitive or extremely sensitive to certain things.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: It can you're already feeling out of control and probably
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: very vulnerable in those moments. So to have a description
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: be gay, I think that that can help maybe you
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: feel understood. Like kind of going back to I think
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: what Nick was saying earlier. If I don't know, if
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: you're in a group of people or you're starting to
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: become friends with somebody and you can describe to them like, hey,
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: I might you know, cry a little more.
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: Often at things. It's okay, I just I just cry
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: at those things.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: You know, Like it helps connection and it helps understanding,
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: and I think it helps the other person know like Okay,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: I don't have to maybe freak out every time you're upset.
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: Maybe we develop like you know, a code word or something.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: If you're if you're really upset or yeah, that means.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Diff If I ever start crying during just listen very carefully.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: I whispering because I'm scared.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: So because you are a highly highly sensitive person or
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: very sensitive person, I would say, we're not, you know,
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: knocking the descriptions here. I think they are valid descriptions,
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: just some clarity on maybe how we how we view
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: them and how they're seen from it.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of value to them. You just got
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: to right size what they are if you just to
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: say that.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: In the end, because it sounds like they're kind of
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm not sure how should I I view this?
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: How should I feel about this? Am I trying to
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: pathologize it?
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: Or yeah? Is it okay?
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Last note about bay Do Crimes, long term supporter and
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: listener of the show by do Crimes is developing a
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: survey that is being released in May for listeners on
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: the discord, and the survey is about the hosts in
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: which they take survey questions about us and they answer
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: like who's the most likely to and like things like that,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: and all these things, and we'll be reviewing that during
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: the live show at the end of the month. Dot
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Com slash therapy jump in there. That will be coming
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: out this month. But great question. Already appreciate.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: I know. I already told them, like, hey, I am
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: going to take last edit rights on this thing, make
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: sure this is okay before it goes out to the masses.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: But he's been a real friend about it, so it's
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun. It's all in good spirits.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Were to take a quick you can.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Send the unknitted version to me. Yeah, that's right, We're.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Gonna take a quick break, and when we come back,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: we're talking about surface level friendships. You're listening to pod Therapy.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by Judy Schneider, Leon Casa,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Carolyn Albert, Sammy Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Halt, Darren Cunningham,
• 31:24
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• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Amy R. Wood Mark Jesus Prayeah. Yeah, I was hoping
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: you guys would notice. We don't expect that shit from me. Amy,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: would you like this past of the show become a
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: therap producer A patroon dot com slash there trivia.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Really geography, it is god, damn it.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: And you really can use your phone, open your phone,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: have a map. You cannot google the answers all right,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Whitney will keep me accountable.
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: That privacy screen.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: I can't sah, you can't see this, okay, big thanks
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: to my new Instagram follow uncle apps. This is all
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: all stuff. Oh, this is a he comes up with
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: some really good geography. Okay, okay, here we go. Who
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: We're going to go around the room. You each get
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: three guesses. Oh okay, okay, Jim, we'll start with you. Okay,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: what is our map of what do I need to
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: put a map of the entire damn it?
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: Pull up your map Vegas zoomed Jacob's house.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: To zoom out. Okay, what is the largest French speaking
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: city by population?
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Why would this help me at all?
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Why would it? Because you're gonna need to come up
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: with cities the largest and I know you can't think.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Of French speaking Oh oh Paris.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: No what it goes on? Yeah, so we'll go back.
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: To ground three, largest by size or by population population?
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, oh my god, god, let me help you.
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: French speakings this is at you.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: There's another city in there. There's Paris. Look at all
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: these other cities. I mean, it's gonna be in France, right,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: like question, it's gonna.
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: Feel like somewhere in Belgium or something.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: No, come, I'm pissed off that it's not Paris. Is
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: that not the capital of France?
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: Pick the I believe it's the capital of France.
• 33:21
  Speaker 7: I don't know, Whitney. It's a show. So you gotta
• 33:24
  Speaker 7: move on at some point.
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: You go first, then you go, Jacob, go ahead.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, I'll go Montreal. No, good, whole Canadians.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Oh do you want to see Canada?
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: We have a phone? Why am I doing this? You do?
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: You're right.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Your mouth sucks. Now has to answer Google mouths.
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: Is there a French Polynesia?
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I'll give you all of French Polynesia?
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: Okay?
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: No esus dude, all right back to me. I'm really
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: glad you're only going two guesses in the interest of times. Yeah,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: you're on the right side.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Give me nantis nantes France. It's a big word, you
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: see how it is nanties.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: No, And I'll tell you right now, Paris is the
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: largest city in France. So if you're still looking France.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I was, all right, do they speak French? And it's
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: somewhere like Jacob All right, Quebec? Oh no, wow? Which
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: is a providence? Province? Oh right, there's there's a city.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: There's Quebec City. Yeah. No, it's not like Quebec City.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Okay speaking.
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: What's that Vancouver?
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: No Vancouver that it is Conchosa. The fuck is that
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: We were not going to go there, Fren. The ones
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: round like they're not going to get the.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Million, seventeen million. Okay, let's do it. Let's do another one.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: All right, Jim, you're up. Yes, what is the only
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: country named after a woman? Oh? My god? Okay, hold on,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: it's not Chad.
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: You don't know that.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Kenya sounds kind of girly. Ooh, and Gola sounds very
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: lady like. I might go with that one.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: Uh, okay, South Korea. I like a lot of these
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: for girls named after amy South You know what.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Give me?
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Korea is just the Korean word for a woman. Boy.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: I like a lot of these.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna go I'm gonna stick to Africa
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: and I'm gonna go with Oh, that's a girl named
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: too give give me Algeria.
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: No, I like Somalia.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: No really, alright, you're hard.
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: I want the continent of India.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Oh no, all sorts of country. Okay.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: I've met this person, so I know it is real
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: because she cut my hair once. Mozambique, No, a lie,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: because i've met her.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: London a city.
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: Wait, it's not city. Do you say country?
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Country?
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: Was not paying.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Attention, totally saying I mean America, say Greenland.
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: Okay, it's not America. That's Amerigo Vespucci.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: That sounds like a girl named best Pucci. Come on,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: come on, Bespucci was giving it up everywhere.
• 36:31
  Speaker 8: Oh let's see here. How about I like a lot?
• 36:39
  Speaker 8: Ah found it? Okay, Romania, it's too bad.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I like that one. Russia, just Russia, Saint Lucia.
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: I don't like.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I don't like this at all.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: I think that people are We're upset people.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: They are raging.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: You're look, this isn't the live show, fella, all right,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: the chat would be blowing up right now. Everybody just
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: being upset. Is that the end of it? Please be
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: graciously good? All right?
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad that it wasn't as geog geographic as
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: I thought it was gonna be.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: This is like us get anything right now? I think,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: all right, you know what, I'm not losing, and shame
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: on both of you, all right, I mean you're tied
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: for last. Yeah, I'm gonna start off the next one
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: with one. I think you can get.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, probably interesting wet dog show on the last one.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Surface level friendships, Hi, friends, please save for a Whitney appearance,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: because she's the gal's gal, and I appreciate her perspective.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: We didn't do it on purpose of us. That's what
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I heard the question, Whitney.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Since you're just so fucking great, go ahead. No, you're
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: the people's champion all the goddamn sudden time.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: You don't even know what country's named after us? Yeah,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: stupid some gals. Gals couldn't even name a girl country.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: I believe women's women's names of countries.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: I'm seeking some advice on how to manage or even
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: have surface level friends. Here's the context. My neighbor, who
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: lives directly above me, is named Julia. Julia is a
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: young and beautiful and wonderful person. We've gotten quite close
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: over the last year or so. I thought my first
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: inkling that we weren't on the same friend page was
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: when she said, by accident, I tell you more than
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: my real friends.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Ooh, that's interesting. Of course she backtracked, but that was
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: a Freudian slip if I've ever heard one. She also
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: has never invited me out to meet any of her
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: real friends. I suspect it's because we are very fundamentally different.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I'm in my early thirties while she's in her late twenties.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I would describe her as a clean girl esthetic.
• 38:55
  Speaker 7: Why did you say early thirties and late twenties like
• 38:58
  Speaker 7: far two age groups that are to each other.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Nice as far as the east from the west is
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: twenty nine from thirty.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: As we all know, I would describe her as a
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: clean girl aesthetic while I'm a farmer. I'm also a
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: really direct person, while she well isn't. Anytime I've tried
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: being direct with her about my feelings, she gets weirded
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: out and will stop talking to me for about a
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: week or so. Level friends like or surface level friends
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: like Julia. I'm pretty all or nothing type bitch, and
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: that means I have very few friends.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Because of that.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I covet and care for the people I consider my
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: friends deeply, but it hurts a lot when I'm reminded
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not actually her friend. She's my friend, but I'm
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: not hers, or at least that's how it feels thoughts.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you for the weekly Wednesday episodes, and I consider
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: you bitches my friends. Whether you like it or not,
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: I love you. Bye, Ellie.
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: We made the circle.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Tell me who I'm friends with? We are your real friends.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: This actually, it kind of reminds me. I came across
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: this video and social media the other day. It was
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: it was it was how to how to rage bait
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: men and like just backhanded compliments. It's just like crazy ship.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember something about like something like oh,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: I think it's great how much confidence you have for
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: being so short, or like there was another.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: One that's like, yeah the stock market isn't real.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: That was oh god. But women have theirs like oh,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I just love how you can wear anything, you know,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: like the classic like hunh.
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: So great with makeup. I could never do that.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: I could never do that, Like.
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: You can get anything up there.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the key is the key in your attic. The
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: real key, though, is find something that they are not
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: aware of. Or something that doesn't even exist, but they
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: walk away from the conversation thinking about it just like, oh,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: your your eyesight must be so amazing with your eyes
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: so close together.
• 41:06
  Speaker 9: Oh yes, yes, these are great. I know I'm looking
• 41:11
  Speaker 9: up how to rage bait men, and uh, these are great,
• 41:14
  Speaker 9: So I will be going over them after we get
• 41:16
  Speaker 9: an answer.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: I have general thoughts about this topic of like being
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: friends with somebody who maybe you don't know their other
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: friends that in general, because what first came to mind
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: before we got into kind of the the yucky part
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: of the question was that, like, I have friend groups
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: that maybe don't overlap or mix, and so I don't
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: like the term that this neighbor friend used where it's like, oh,
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: my real friends like excuse me, much like no.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: I mean that to me could be excused.
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: I agree. So she played it off like.
• 41:56
  Speaker 7: That's that's the wrong term, Like I don't have a
• 41:59
  Speaker 7: group for this one person, right.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: Because I kind of think about it, like I became
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: friends with one of my neighbors and it was kind
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: of weird for a while because and she's about ten
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: years older than me, but I feel very connected to her.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: But at one point I'm like are we like, really
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: like real friends or are we just friends because we're neighbors,
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: Like you kind of are thinking about that, and you're like.
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, like we took that step.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: And I heard the writer say, you know, whenever I
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: get vulnerable with my feelings and I'm telling this person, hey,
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: I care about you, I think we're really good friends,
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: then they kind of back off.
• 42:33
  Speaker 5: That to me is a little flag.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: But I'm gonna circle back to that because initially, I
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: think it's okay to have maybe like your neighbor friend,
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: your friends that you like to go to country concerts
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: with because you all like that kind of music, but
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: like other friends you live, hanging out by the pool
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: with or whatever, going to play pickleball, whatever you like
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: to do. So it's like, I think having those different
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: groups of friends is fine and wonderful. I don't like
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: the term real friends, but yeah, like Jacob said, maybe
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: she wasn't using the right term there, per se, I
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: can just kind of slip, yeah, like an actual just slip.
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: But for you personally, one I hear you saying that
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: you really care about the people in your life and
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: having only a few friends, I think that's totally fine
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: and great, especially the older we get. You're saying, you're
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: in your thirties, like it starts really whittling down for
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: good reason. It's like you only have so much time
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: and in your day and your life less patience, and
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: the people that are worth it are worth it.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, at that point, tryouts are kind of over.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: It's really hard to become good friends with somebody.
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. And I was going to comment on this.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: I just spoke to one of my friends I've I've
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: been friends with since we were ten years old, and
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: sometimes I don't know if this is bad or not,
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: but I look at how how we are friends, and
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: she is so different to me in a lot of
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: ways that I'm like, I wonder if I met her
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: today at almost forty, what I have connected and like
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: love her no matter what. I'm like, I don't know,
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: because we are very different. But because she's in my
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: circle now, I'm like, book it, I don't care. You
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: could do whatever, and you're like my bestie. It doesn't matter,
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: you could, like, I don't know where I feel.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: This is an interesting paradigm though, right, because there's compatible
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: friends and then there's situational friends. Yes, like Nick and
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: I would not have naturally just become friends. No, that's true,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: he knows that's true. There's no universe where we would
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: have like even probably had an occasion to talk to
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: each other if we if we both just independently knew
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: and we ended up at a at a party that
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Jacob posts, I believe he calls them Suarez. If we
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: were invited to a sure and we were both there, I.
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: Weirdly do often call them soares.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: I was just speaking facts that nothing nothing about that
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: was a bit. That's is true.
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: He's your best friends.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: The text says that's right.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: But like if I just randomly came upon Nick and
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: we were like chatting, okay, we would what would we
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: have in common? Oh you're a therapist too, Okay we
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: that would probably be a great start, but like we
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: probably wouldn't go much further than that, right, Like, but
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: when you're co workers, you situationally become friends because it's like, well,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: there's no other dudes here, you want to go get lunch.
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: Like, all you're talking about is time commitment.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: When we're younger, you are forced into time commitment relationships
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: with people in school classrooms and and you know, like
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: preschool whatever, if you're if you're friends with like somebody
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: else's kid, like if.
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: Your parents are friends, neighbors, neighbors.
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: Like you said, are we good friends because we would
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: be good friends? Or are we good friends because we're neighbors? Like, yes,
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: you know, it's just both. Yeah, just both.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: I just I'm saying like that to validate I think
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Whitney's point there though, I do think that, like the
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: beginning of many friendships is kind of situational, and I
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: can appreciate.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: That mentally, you ask yourself once you have to have
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: that time. Yeah, I guess that's a good point, Like
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: how else do you fucking meet anybody? Like what do
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: we have like a friendship? Dating?
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: As I get that question, how do I meet friends?
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: But I just wanted to say to to the writer
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: that if you are feeling her by this person, it
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: might be time to back off.
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: A little bit. And especially no, you just don't have
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: to call her text How are you connecting with them?
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: Are you running? Oh my gosh, Jim's avoided.
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: Burn it down to the insurance money.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be weird. You can't not be friends with
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: this person. You're already neighbors. How do you unfriend a neighbor.
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: It's not that hard.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: You just obviously she the other girl's doing it whenever
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: the writer's vulnerable with her, she just doesn't call her
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: text for weekly.
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: That's the same thing. She doesn't want to be that
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: close either.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: It's awkward.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: One day, you're gonna need your trash bins brought in.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: No, you look out your window first and you go
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: out there. Person bake about that's on them. They started
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: that awkward discussion. But no, I think you have to
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: protect your peace. And you've described yourself as somebody who
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: loves deeply for those they like, those friends they do have.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: This person is not earning that friendship, and that can
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: feel hurtful. And some friends are in our lives just
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: for a short time. Maybe this person you had a
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: great connection with for a little while and now it's
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: not there.
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: They're not earning just the person that, like you, you
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: exchanged pleasant shoes with with, and like they bring your
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: garbage cans in every.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: Now and then, they're actually showing you who they are
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: and telling you who they are. I don't feel like
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: you have to force something. And maybe there is a little,
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: a little bit of grieving that comes with that of
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: that separation.
• 47:15
  Speaker 5: That's hard. It's hard to feel the rejection.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, I was going to answer. I realized this
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: was not my question.
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: Shut the fuck up.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Now that we've heard the right answer, why don't we around?
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: We just jumped in on this. I get the thing
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: with like different friend groups.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: Do y'all ever merge a friend groups? Like Jacob has
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: these worries?
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, not only you. I'm excited. This is the thing
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I'm excited about for the reception is all of us
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: get into table assignments are in.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Groups, spreading us.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, I'm gonna I've already got it planned out.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Like how I'm gonna you sit next to your wife?
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm already upset. This is gonna be awful.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Want to do this? Switch all the names like Jacob
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: friends that I've had that I've just been like, Oh,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: you know, who would I think really click with this group?
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Is this other person and this other like don't let
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: him bring.
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: A plus one and then they'll connect?
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, it's all about it's it's when I say connect,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: I mean hooking up. Oh it's a big, big key party.
• 48:28
  Speaker 9: I just like seinfelders, Oh my god, it's in The
• 48:33
  Speaker 9: Grinch with Jim.
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: It is party movie, A key party reference at the Grinch.
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: I got to watch that again.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Now do you think that there's something.
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: To be said?
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: No?
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Not, Well, you guys are it. So this is kind
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: of all I got going on. It's pretty great. The
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: way I make new friends is we just expand. The
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: podcast started with Nick, you can Jacob.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: On the zone. Now Jacob's around, You're here.
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: It's great.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Keep adding microphones and eventually I have enough people that
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: play basketball that be really well. It's the only way
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: But I do agree with this idea of like, okay,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: neighbor friend to me, I could and I agree with you, Whitney.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: I think that your your point is very valid. I
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: do think this is a real friendship. I don't know
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: that I like that term, but I can appreciate that
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: there is something different about it, and I don't necessarily
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: think that that means it's less valuable, because I think
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: your neighbor friend has access to you in a way
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: that so many other people do not, you know, like
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: this very intimate thing, like your neighbor comes over and
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: your pj's My favorite part.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: My favorite part is the random like oh what are
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: you doing in ten minutes? When you go on a
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: walk and they're just there or they're not sometimes, but
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: it's like all right, cool, but yeah, I want to
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: come watch the show with me. Sure, I'll be around
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: five minutes.
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: It's the best.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: No, I just think that's a very different you'll have
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: to plan anything. Yeah, yeah, I just think it's very
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: very different. Like I mean, my sister moved to town
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: and she lives right down the street, and so she
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: comes over with her kid like all the time, and
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: you know, she's family and stuff too, but it's just
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: like like this morning, she's like, hey, we're getting coffee.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Can I just pop in? Everybody's in their pj's, everybody's
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: hair is undone. We just woke up and it's like
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: yeah whatever, and she's like great opening donuts. You know,
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: like okay, that's but it's family. But I feel like
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: that same thing happens with neighbors, like that proximity of
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: like they've they've seen you go get your newspaper in
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: the morning, they've seen you picking up dog shit like whatever.
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: House is starting like anger, Yeah, just.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: People are just much more natural in that way, and
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: so I think it's I can appreciate that it's not
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: a true or I don't like the word real, but
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: like a traditional friendship might be the right word.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: So if the writer would not have said how deeply
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: they end up caring for their friends, I would have
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: gone that route.
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: So I'm glad you.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: Mentioned it, and I personally, if you set that expectation,
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: I think that's a wonderful type of friendship to have.
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: So I guess writer, like, consider that, consider adjusting your
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: expectations if you feel like you can. But if you can't,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: then then you might not need to be in. It
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: might just be hurtful then.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: But I don't think you can get out of this friendship.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: You have to burn down your house and get the
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: insurance you have. I don't know. This is also one
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: of the reasons I refuse to be friends or even.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Knows we have to have an attorney on retainer.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Leon gets a lot of mail. I write Leon
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: every week and I'm like, do you know what he
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: said to me this week? He said I shouldn't be
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: fucking dancing. He's just a douche and I'm not gonna
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: deal with this shit anymore. Yeah, Leon has a whole
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: fucking gym file. Okay, you you're gonna be served one
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: day anyway.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Writer, The clear advice here is that you need to move.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: I think that's the only way out of this. I
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: don't think you can continue this friendship or you do
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: right as long as you right size what your friendships are, which,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: to me, I think that there's nothing wrong with that.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: Like I can appreciate that you have different friends at
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: different levels that you call for different things, and like
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: if somebody accidentally oversteps into a different lane, they're not wrong.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: But there is a moment of reckoning where you realize, like, oh,
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: I don't think we're those friends though, you know, like does.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: That make sense? Are we hugging friends?
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: I don't know if we're hugging friends?
• 52:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Huh, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: Like I was thinking about the SOO, so I went
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: up to Reno and I talked about it. When I
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: turned forty, I went to Reno with Eddie. Eddie and
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: I shared a hotel room, no bigger. We were roommates
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: in college. I've known this guy forever. I don't even
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: think about it, but if Nick and I were going
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: to a conference and be like, Oh, we'll just get
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: one hotel room.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: It'd be like, hell, I think we can get too.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: I think we'll be fine. Yeah, but we'll get I
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: opened that. I got it.
• 52:38
  Speaker 5: On to the lobby.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: It's the move. Laura and I had to do that
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: in New York because the hotel room was so small.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Like it was it was a little bit bigger than.
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: A glass door for the each other.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: It was in the shower and there was a glass
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: door that went around the shower and toilet and it
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: was like frosted glass.
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: But.
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: Also things I don't want to see.
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: Also not sound proof, so yeah, you need your toilets.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is why we can't be in the same
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: room and think it's fine. And I want that for you.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: I want you to have. That doesn't mean that we're
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: not friends. We're not the same hotel friend. There you friend,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: That's not you're getting the wrong idea with It's not that,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: it's it's the screaming and I don't want That's what
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: I don't want.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: You guys don't cry when you But I appreciate about
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: it though, is he does it into a pillow and
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: I just I appreciate is that you cry.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Not to cry has to be real that I have
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: to turn up Titanic on the you know, hotel room TV,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: and like this is weird for both of us. Now,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: you know, fucking belt it out and it just keeps
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: moaning in this Yeah, anyway, writer, that's what you should
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: do about your friendship. We're gonna take a quick break
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: and when we come back, we're talking about successes and
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: failures as therapists. You're listening to pod therapy. Today's episode
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: is brought to you by Judy Schneider, Leon Kasab, Carolin Albert,
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: Sammy's Scoop, Sarah Smiths, Mike Helm, Darren Cunningham, Brady Malaychick,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: Max the Ginger Scoop, Ellio Deare, and Amy R. Woodmark.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Would you like to sponsor the show? Become a therap
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: producer Patreon dot com Sah, well, we don't know. I'm right, yeah, okay, yep,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: make a lot of good point. This is where the
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: live show is really gonna fuck us up. I think
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of people just show up and just literally
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: jump into the zoom and pronounce their name. Yep, the
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: whole bit, all right, Jim starting off with you. All right,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it without a map this time. What
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: US state doesn't help? What US State's motto is live
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: free or die? Bruce willis uh live free or die?
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: God damn. It's like a fitty scent motto right there. Yeah,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: I like that ship.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: An original colony, live trying.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: Uh, okay, it's gonna be some really fucking killer state.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Give me, give me like fucking one.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Of the originals. I don't know who they are. Give
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: me Kentucky.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: I feel like they up the originals.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Is that not an original?
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: That's not that card? But I was like, that does
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: check out?
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: It feels right. I'm taking away two guesses.
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: One of the West coast states, like I don't know Florida. Yeah,
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: hey it has a West coast all right, jokes on you.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: So not Kentucky?
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: Then?
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: No, all right, it was a solid guess. You know
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: it's a solid gas solid.
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: Live free or Georgia.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: No, Connecticut, Jim, you want another one? I do? Give
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: me fucking Delaware. No, yah, fuck you Delaware pussies.
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: Uh, Massachusetts show Yeah, that's good.
• 56:16
  Speaker 5: That original Wyoming or something.
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: Rhode Island.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: Take some weird es dated.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Give us another Okay, give me fucking Montana.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: No, go Wyoming. Oh you know what you're getting further
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: away ship?
• 56:31
  Speaker 5: Okay, I take that way.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know which direction that is. I know that's
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: why I don't have your mouth. But said the math
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: doesn't help you were you were on the right track. Okays, like,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: no East Coast original originalities kind of.
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: Have thirteen Maryland? No, can we go one more round?
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, go ahead, give me for North Carolina?
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: No, you already said Connecticut or no? Yeah you.
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: Virginia.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: No, Virginia's for lover good good guess Vermont very close?
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: Damn it.
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: I was only like eight more guesses away one more.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: When you think about New Hampshire, you think they will
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: fund Montreal for freeing.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go closest without going over. Okay, how many
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: federally recognized tribes are there in the United States?
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: Oh, my gosh, it's gonna be way more than.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: You even Oh boy, all right.
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: Federally RECOGNI federally recognized tribes.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: I feel like you need to go first, Jacob, because
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: you are the worst actor prices right game, you always,
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: and so I think you need to go first.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, huh.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: We always guess in good faith, and you always do gamesmanship,
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: all right, and I'm tired of it.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: I'm just sick of this. Alright.
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: I'll go, oh, one hundred and thirty five.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, Jim, go ahead, Jims, No ahead, Jim. I didn't
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: know where you're going. I'm gonna I'm gonna go higher
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: on this. Give me three hundred, all right.
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: My original guest for Jacob said his was going to
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: be one fifty. I'll say one hundred.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, all right, we got we had some distance between us.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Jim is the closest that I went over. No, you're
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: still two hundred short. Oh my god, wow, five hundred
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: and seventy four. There you go. Wow. Over two hundred
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: of them alone are in Alaska.
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: Damn.
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: Okay, that's okay.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, when I was counting him, I didn't count Alaska. Yeah,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: that's why you were Alaska.
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: I knew it.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Well, it's it's off you know, on the it's got
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: its own little corner of the raps where those Russia from. Yeah.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: See, I didn't forget Alaska. I never Alaska, so you know,
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: because I remember.
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: You weren't close.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: I believe Ice.
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: It seems like you forgot part of a word you're
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: looking for. Is winner forgot part of Alaska?
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: All I know is in this geography challenge, you know
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: Jim is in the lead. Fuck everybody Successes and failures
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: as therapists. Hey, guys, I've been listening to the show
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: for about two years now, and I enjoy every episode.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: This is just about the only podcast that truly makes
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: me feel included in the community, and I'm grateful for
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: the effort you all put into it alongside the humor.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: I'm a relatively new therapist and I really appreciate the
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: knowledge each of you bring to the scenarios presented on
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: the podcast.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: You're welcome, and it's clear you are all seasoned veterans
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: in your own areas. All that's all.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: I'm wondering if each of you would be willing to
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: share one of your biggest success stories and one of
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: your biggest failures as clinicians, and maybe how you grew
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: from that failure. Fingers crossed. I don't feel like I've
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: experienced the true failure yet, but obviously in this field,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: sometimes a mistake can lead to catastrophic consequences, and i'd
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: like to hear how you all moved on after a failure.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: One of my biggest successes so far in my early
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: career is that I've helped a teenage client abstain from
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: self harming for over a year. And reminding myself about
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: this case helps me prove to myself that I kind of.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: Sort of know what I'm doing.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you all again, and.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: I truly appreciate this show.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: Signed charm City shrink pronouns.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Are he and him?
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Worst charm city is that?
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Is that a thing? Come welcome.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: Where the air is always clean?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: Accomplishment Baltimore, Maryland. Yeah, okay, according to Google, all right
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: the original.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is a tough one. I think it's
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: hard for anybody to remember their best I mean, the
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: worst ones. I think we've all been.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: I've only had one success, so I remember it. Fun.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: Let's hear about it. Let's hear donkey basketball shot. The
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Jay threaded it.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: She was she was really difficult to work with. But
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: fast forward, we're getting married.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right. I'm really proud of his biggest failure.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: I would, I would, damn I will not yet never never,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: that's the biggest failures. When I married this one's working out. Yeah,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: really good about it. You know what, if this doesn't
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: work out, I'm gonna stop marrying my clients. This might
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: be if it doesn't happen on the third time, I
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: am going to make them crazy rat out of it.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: What is your success story? I've had a couple. There's
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: two right away that come to mind. One most recently
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: because she is now a clinician. Oh wow, a clinical director,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: and I've had a lot of interaction with her conferences
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: and stuff, and and just it was funny because just
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: you know, like a year ago, we were talking and
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: she was referring to me as as mister Nick. As like, hey,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: we're colleagues. Just Nick's fine.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 5: That's the hardest when you have like a professor or.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: Somebody you're like, mister so and so, stop like just
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: call me by my first name.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Not. There's another one too that uh uh, I know
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: Jim knows. But this person was I had worked with
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: at two different organizations and kind of had a reputation
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: as being a person that the rest of the counselors
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: just did not want to work with, reputation as a
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: cruel dude. Yeah, But for whatever reason, we we just
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: kind of clicked and stole a good rapport. And still
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: every once in a while I'll hear from this person
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: and still doing good, still success and living a good life,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: and I get updates every once in a while. So yeah,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: that's awesome. That's really know what you're talking about.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think one of the things that I
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: love about this question is talking that the writer saying, look,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: I made a difference right, Like I was working with
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: a team, helped them not to self harm. And I
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: think that what all of us have probably experienced is
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: when you have that success that you realize I'm probably
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: the only person I know that could have pulled this
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: one off because this is a good match. Like this client,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: I was a perfect fit. I could read them really well.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: We connected really well. The alliance was really strong. I
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: read the situation correctly. I had the right interventions the
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: right times, and you know, a lot of that's luck.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: But whenever that happens and you start getting some wins
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: like that with a person, you're like, Wow, this one's
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: really turning around. We're really starting to get there. That's tremendous.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: It's one of the most validating things I think you
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: could experience as an early therapist.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, especially when you're really doubting yourself this lot of
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: that syndrome. Yeah, exactly, Gosh, successes. Definitely, working with teens
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: is a challenge to start with. So it's like I
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: hear the writer when they're they're talking about, like how
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: good that feels when you can reach a teenager and
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: then also be able to work through challenging situations with them,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: because even if you have good rapport, it's still challenging
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: to change their behavior, mostly because their parents are are
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: a huge part of that equation typically, and you don't
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: have control over that. They don't have control over that.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: So first of all, just well done you. But I
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: would say, like for me, I did have a client
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: who reached out to me on Facebook Messenger, which I
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: don't check Facebook very often anymore. And then you know,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: when somebody you're not friends with messages you, it's like hidden, Yeah,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: and so I won't see some of those for like
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: a month, two months, three months, and I'm like, oh,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: I should go check this random folder, okay, because I
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: saw that in there, which is one Yeah, but I
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: get this message from a teen that and I don't know,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: maybe this is a controversial one, but it felt still
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: like a success to me. Basically a teenager that would
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: had been a jso so juvenile sex fender. And let
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: me just preface this by saying, you know, ninety five
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: percent or more maybe of the clients I worked with,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: they are good kids. They neither had things done to
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: them or they were in, you know, precarious situations that
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: led them to do the things they did.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 5: Every once in a while, you get one, you're.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: Like, yeah, you need to stay, stay for a long time,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: and I'm scared. But majority of these children are not
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: going to As long as they've been through treatment, it's
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: very unlikely they'll they'll re offend. So this kid was
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: not a kid anymore, messages me and he's like, Hey,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: just wanted to reach out and let you know that
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: you were really impactful to me and my life. And
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: you know, I got I went into the military, you know,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: after I finished school and stuff high school, and I'm
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: married now and I have a child of my own,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: And just how much that impacted him. Because because they're
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: in group homes, let me just preface that they're not
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: in their home. They're removed from their own parents and
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: their own families a lot of the time, and so
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh, my gosh, And in my mind,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: I'm like assuming everything is going well there, which seemed
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: like it was. It was just like that's a huge impact,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: I feel like you have, especially the cycle of sexual
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: abuse that can happen.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 5: So so that one.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: Was really really a big deal to me. I guess
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: one other one. I had a small child, not a
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: JSO and foster care and he was like eight or
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: nine when I was working with him, and his social
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: worker years later when he was like a teenager actually
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: reached out to me on Facebook too. This was some
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: years ago. But she's like, he just remembers you, like,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: and he's he's going he's still in the foster care
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: system and going through stuff, and I think he just
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: you are somebody that he remembered working with and and
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: I never knew with him, like you know, you show
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: up for these little kids and you're like, I don't know.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: And so they were like, can you be someone he
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: reaches out to. Do you give like permission for that?
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: And I was like, yeah, he needs something like absolutely,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: I'm still you know, at therapist whatever. So that was
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: kind of cool. I was like, oh, my gosh, it's
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: just for kids, you never know, Like.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: Kids are a tough population too, because I mean a
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: lot of time you think this is the worst, Like
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: it's not going well. I don't think I'm connecting with them.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: They don't want to be here. Yes, so hard to
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: break through. So I do think there's a huge victory
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: lap whenever that happens with that population, You're.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: Like, Okay, this is going well. Do you think of
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: addictions work.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: That's true too, Like you mentioned like a very difficult client,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: A lot of them are really difficult in the addictions.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: The ones that people that a lot of clinicians find
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: really difficult are the ones that I really enjoy working
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: with because the common theme is honesty. Like the ones
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: that are just very honest, those are the ones I like,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: like because I appreciate honesty, even if it's stuff I
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: don't want to hear. I appreciate that. But a lot
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: of counselors they're fine with just lie to me, you know,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: just just say the things to get through this. Yeah,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: and like that, I because I can sense you know
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: that bullshit, you know, if you're just in here and
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: you're just bullshitting and none of this is sincere. I
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: understand that. I sense that, and it just like, well,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: what am I doing? Kind of wasting my time? Whereas
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: if you come in here, you know, and you say
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: and you're like, this is bullshit that I have to
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: be here, and you're a fucking idiot. I don't why
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: I have to talk to you. I'm like, awesome, great,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: let me tell you about let's go.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 5: You're a no, I'm a.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: You cannot say anything worse than I've said to myself
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: on the golf course.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: You can't hurt me. You know.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: It's tough because I think successes and failures they start
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: to pile up over the decades, you know that you
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: do this career and like, at some point, I think
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: it becomes a blur and I hope that you don't
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: hold on to them too tightly, right because I think, like,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: especially with failures, I mean, at some point you lose
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: a client, you know, like you lose people to suicide,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: you lose people to overdose. Yeah, I mean those ones
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: are always really hard, and I think anytime those happen,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: at least in my career, there's like this deep, you know,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: self reflection of like what did I miss? Did I
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: get everything right. You know, where did I drop the ball?
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: Clearly there were warning signs that I didn't see. Those
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: are the ones that haunt me, you know, and I've
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: had several of those, you know, throughout my career where
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: you sit down, you look at it and there's you
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: always think of things you could have done, and like
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: you talk to other colleagues, and you know, Nick's been
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: with me through some of those where we kind of
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: go back through them and he'll look at it and say, look,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: if I think that you're out of line, I'll tell
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: you you fucked up on this. Here's an area you
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: probably could have done more. Here's where you probably could
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: have caught this. But I also wouldn't have expected you
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: to like that that's above and beyond, or that was
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: a blind spot you wouldn't.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: Have known to look at. Hindsight's twenty twenty. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: With hindsight, you're like, yeah, watch the game footage and
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, here you go, they're blitzing on the left.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: It's like, but you didn't see that, man, Like you
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: were doing the best practice at the time. So I mean,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: but those failures still stay with you because in the
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: end of the day. It's it is a life and
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: death profession. You know, a lot of times we don't
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: appreciate that, like this is still frontline healthcare. Suicide is
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: extremely dangerous. Drug and alcohol overdose is extremely dangerous. Deaths
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: of despair very very serious. So yeah, I mean I
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: carry those with me a lot, and that will happen
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: to you too. Writer, that's gonna be new in your life.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: You're going to carry those and it makes you better.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: I think that it causes you to double triple check.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: It causes you to be like more intuitive about certain things.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: You develop a little bit more fear that things can
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: go wrong because you've experienced a sudden twist you know
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: that you didn't see coming. And those are really hard,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: but they make you a better healthcare provider.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, are we just gonna ignore negatives? Jacob's life coaching success, Oh,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: you know what, I think we should give him my back. Clearly,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: biggest success is winning a doctorate. That was a pretty
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: great day.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: I don't know, it wasn't that hardly feel accomplished, pretas
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: a couple of times that's true? Is that what they
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: call defending your thesis? I think that's that right, very true.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, well solid, So some big successes the obviously
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: no failures. No, because Jacob doesn't fail. The client fails.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: Everybody else does. You failed me, you flipped me down.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: I will give you an f an apology I'm giving No,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: I break up with you.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: If I come to your funeral, your mother will apologize
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 4: to me.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: God. Yeah. Another failure was that time I put fake cocaine.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I was wondering.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: That that wasn't great. It was a little bit of
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: a rookie I mean a rookie move. You know, the
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: thing I said about a hindsight being twenty twenty does
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: not apply here. Oh okay, now there was a twenty
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: twenty situation at in the moment it happened, probably shouldn't
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: have done that. Yeah, there's been a few of those,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: so sorry. Yeah.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: There was another time at that same camp, like more
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: than half the guys that were up there were coming
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: up right out of prison like that.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: We called them on.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: Paper, you know, they were there for good behavior, they
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: were there to get clean, but they absolutely were on
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: parole and they were very dangerous people. And it was
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: fascinating how often they'd be like people from rival gangs
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: in the same group therapy, and they would just agree,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: like the beef is squashed while we're here, like this
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: is neutral ground. We're all facing the same challenges. And
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: then you know, they'd get down the mountain and like
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: it was back to war. Like it was crazy. But
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: there was one day where there was a guy there
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: is very dangerous guy, and I got along with him really,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: really well, and I thought we were just hitting it off.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: Everything was really good. And then one day I was
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: in the counseling office, mostly around other staff, but there
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: was a couple of people there that were like assistants
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: but they were they were patients, but they were like
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: they're doing assistant duties or whatever. And somebody was like, oh,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: somebody needs to uh call this guy out or whatever,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: like get him involved. And I don't remember how I
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: phrased it, but I was like, oh, I got that guy,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: no problem. They're like, are you sure, like you know
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: he's he's kind of a tough guy, and I was like, no,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: we're getting along really good, man.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: You know, he's a bitch. I got him.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: And I said that phrase something along the lines of
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: he's he's a bitch, don't even worry about it, and
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: like I phrased it. At the time it made more sense,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: but sure did. Yeah, looking back, it's hard to find
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: an eloquent way to get this out that sounds benign.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: But the assistant people that were in the room were like, okay,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: and they went and told this guy.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 5: In front of a group of other men, Yeah.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: Some of these really dangerous guys. So they go and
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: tell him, oh, job and bitch man, And like, I
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: did not realize that in prison culture the phrase bitch
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: means quite a lot.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 5: It means a lot.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I was new to the game.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: So he comes running like across camp. Everybody's like running
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: outside to watch him murder me. Yeah, And so like
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: I am standing on my porch just sitting because our
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: offices had porches.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: It was cabins in the woods.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: And I'm just sitting there, just looking off at the trees,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: and I see him like stomping toward me across the
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: camp and like, these guys all coming out of your
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: trap and watching this happen, and he like stomps up
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: the stairs.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what's that cool? Yeah?
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: I like how you have that sharpened toothbrush.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: What's that all about? Yeah? Excited?
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: I love your dental hygiene. So like he steps up
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: on the patio and he like gets right in my
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: face and he just like stops and he looks at
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: me and he goes, did you fucking call me a bitch?
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, no, what what are you talking about?
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: Are you talking about?
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: And he goes, did you Were you in the counselor's
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: office with everybody else and did you say that I'm
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: a bitch? And I was like, oh, yeah, I did,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: and like I'm completely like, oh yeah, no, I totally did.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: It was a joke and here's what I meant. And
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: he saw just how like ignorant I was, and he
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: pitied me, like he saw on my face and I
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, here's exactly how I said.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: It did that, and it just it hit him all once.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: He's like, oh, okay, I know, I just see what happened.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: And it was so funny. It's hardened like gigantic, dangerous man.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: He just took such pity on me.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: For not fucking knowing any better.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: And we've gotten really close and he was like, let's
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: go inside your office and I was like okay, and
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: he sends me down. He goes, you can't call people bitches, Lily,
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: what are you talking about?
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: Guys call each other bitches all the time. He's like
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: and he's just like explains to me. Prison called and
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: he's like, you are in real danger. He's like, I
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: am obligated to hurt you, but I really don't want
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: to because we've been having real breakthroughs a button und.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: So we had a nice long talk. We stay there
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: for like an hour and he comes out and basically
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: everybody's just like waiting to find out if I'm alive.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: And then you know, I come out and like bye,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: and he's like bye, and then like he goes to
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: like the dudes and they're like so what and they
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: basically out they're like so what happened?
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: And he's like, you know, Jobin really does not understand anything.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: And I think you just have to understand that, Like,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: this guy doesn't fucking know what he just said.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: He got away with a warning. Not one of my
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: Hall of Fame moments.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised he didn't at the minimum, just break your arm.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: I can't I can't be here and you'll be Okay,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: something's got to happen, black guy.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 4: This is God protects children in it yeah, nobody feels good.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: Simple, That's exactly what happened, all into the special like
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: zone where he was like, it's immoral to hurt you
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: because you didn't know any better, Like you didn't break
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: a rule that you knew existed. But now I know,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: and now I do not call my patient's bitches.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: I'm glad that that prompted a change.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: And you know, there you go, writer, that lesson is
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: for free charm shitties.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you said the more you know. You
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: know what I said to Peter the other day, it
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: was get.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: The fuck out of here.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: I was like, with our powers combined. And then I
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: was like seeing the Captain Planet, so you know, all
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 3: randomly seeing whether it's a commercial or like stuff like that,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: you know, and he'll just stare at me for a while,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: and so he's like smiling along. I was like thinking, oh,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: he might know this one.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 5: This mother does Captain Planet.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 5: I've found on YouTube the intro and he's watching it.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: He's like, this is so wholesome, this is wonderful. It's like,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: bless it. What world did you live in? Your sheltered
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: ass world? He's like, wow, Yeah, that's a positive message.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, oh world with too much pollution.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: Clearly, you know, I actually saw this whole thing about
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: how Captain Planet the TV show was entirely propaganda designed
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: by Ted Turner to fuck over oil tycoons who had
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: locked him out of the industry, and that's all it was.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: It's just a Vedeta piece on them specifically.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: It's really funny. But also I know every word of
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: that song.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I sang it all, and then I've played the thing.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: I was like, you gotta hear the real thing.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 5: I'm not.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: Anyway writer.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: Congratulations entering the career, Excited to have you. Thank you
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: for joining us. It surprises me and terrifies me. How
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: many of our listeners are colleagues. It's just the worst
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: or other students.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: This can't be good for us, but they show up.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: So thank you everybody.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: we are wrapping up the show. You are listening to
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: Pod Therapy.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by Judy Schneyder, Leon
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: Carolyn Albert, Sammy Sarah Smith, My Town, Darren Cuttingham, Brady Malaychick,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: Max the Ginger, Scoop, eli Odare and amy Ard Bark,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: would you like to sponsor the show? Become a therap
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: producer Patreon dot com. Slash Plan is not stuck in
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: my head? Thank you, Captain Plan. Do that that.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: Gonna take pollution down to zool?
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: Guys, do you guys watch it? Oh? I didn't watch it. No,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: I know you're talking.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it must be a Saturday morning cart tooon. I
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: think it's for our generations.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: Agree, more generations.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 3: Just like the writers said, late twenties.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: Breaking up big Now I'm in their group. So I'm
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: in the forties. Now this child over here, right, guys,
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: you'll never be in my group, okay, because we're not
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: real friends?
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 5: Is that what?
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: This is? Another one of these because there's always going
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: to be. You're only forty and I'm forty five? Big five? Yeah,
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: it a big seem like a big fight.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 4: I would never be thought of any group that would
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 4: have me.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: Are we getting one more round? Because I'm in the
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: You guys want to end this ship?
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: You don't want to do it? Jim. What's the newest
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: country in the world?
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, South Sudan?
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 5: Yes, I think he gets five. Yeah, I'm impressed.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes, Okay, let's let's keep going. Uh, we'll start
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: with you. Then let's see what is the most commonly
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: spoken native language in Europe native, most commonly spoken native
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: language in Europe.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking of what all entails Europe at the moment,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 3: and I would say English.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: No, it's a solid guest. How about Russian? Yes, yes,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: very good, large.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 4: Part of Russia in Europe.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yep. Okay, Uh, a lot of people in there, Jacob.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: I think it's your turn, right, right, what country has
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: the highest percentage of S T I S? No? Is
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: that not it? No, it's it one.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 4: Next question, excellent, Let's see what country has the highest
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 4: percentage like.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: Per capita percent right I believe so, yes, yeah, oh
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: yes it is per capita.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 4: Okay in that case, Actually I'm gonna say rebound on this.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: The Netherlands live dirty, dirty sons like that.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: No, all right, solid guess, Jim.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: All right, So I feel like the money is going
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: On an African country.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: But I'm going to come over here and saying.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: French. It's the dirty French.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 5: Really, what country has the most.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: St I S. I thought it was you France. Percentage
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: percentage of.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 5: St s sh.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: Dude, it's Vatican City City. There's no way it's not.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: And the percentage is in the population of like one
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: hundred people. Just definitely asking the guards. Just the guards
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: by the stuards are easily you know it. They don't
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: believe in prophylactics, you know, so there's no way they're
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: protecting like, oh.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 5: This is countries all of the whole world.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, and Mars the verse. Yeah, across the universe.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: Let's say, uh, India, No, We're going another round on
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: this for sure.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: Canada, No, they have public you know what. America. No,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: proud of you, America. Good jobs come a long way. Baby.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 4: We're not number one in anything anymore.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, what is it? It is South Africa?
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know, forty three thousand out of every one
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 5: Whoa, And then I changed it to.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well hang in there, South Africa. I
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: hope things work out for you. Yeah, and get me
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: together America.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, up your game. I won, Okay, I won.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: I'm the best. Let it be known.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: As we wrap up the show, we want to remind
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: you can go to patreon dot com slash therapy and
• 1:23:22
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• 1:23:25
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• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research roundups and rants as
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: well as in the month of May. If you're at
• 1:23:33
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• 1:23:37
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• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: with each of the hosts, and access to our live
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: show coming up here at the end of May. And
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: we've got some new friends who has joined the therap
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: party as of this recording.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: Nick, we got two new therapods. Welcome Christy and welcome
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: Fun Crapper Nice nice, definitely not Nick in a hotel room.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: Not fun.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: But it's the first show of the book. This is
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: the one that we think all of our therapods and
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: our therap dactor.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: That's him crying.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: We want to thank University, Jeff Robert, Paulson, Richard Bruins,
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  Speaker 2: Ken Tinsley Flyinley nine to eleven was an inside joke.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: Kimmis matth Little Cubic stick to the list. I hope
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: that's not a job.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: Is this how your drops down?
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 5: Please?
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: I'm McMillan, Walker, Fluke Almost doctor Nurse, Joey Duffy, the
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  Speaker 2: a MFT Therapist, Bear, Philip Guiton, Tim Mystery, Fray Lawson,
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  Speaker 2: Wher Mississippi Hippie Scott A, Drew Hellige, Heather w Patty Glad, Kyle, Frontastic,
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  Speaker 2: and Drake Kis sc Platypus, Almanda Nora charm City Therapist.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: Thanks for the question and thanks for sponsoring. Chelsea Sarason,
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  Speaker 2: Emily Cope, Garrett Godfreed, Jaiva, Nate Walk, Scoop, Bucky Squabby,
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• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: It needs to be like that game where you smash
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: words together and you can get him to say some
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: ridiculous that used to be the new This year is
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: everybody's like putting in that name and like getting Jim
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: to say all sorts of weird ship when it's crammed together.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 3: We also have our theradoctyls Ice, Blue, Scoop, Scoop Brady,
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  Speaker 3: Brian Layman, Andrea Anderson, Scoop, Lindsay, Frozen Cusser, Lorie Elseroth, Polygon, Scoopy, Scoopy,
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• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: Hey you upped up to your your thing, Mommy Dematte,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 3: Mike Lush, Technical Scoop part Dale, the King, Casey fucking Mentor,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 3: I love you, Betch Milk Boy, Rebecca.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: Don't say that you're gonna get beat up The.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 5: Offices of Counselor and Counselor.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: Wait again, we're doing great.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 5: It said it twice.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that. I don't know that.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: We'd like to thank the benevolent, revered, generous, and flagrantly
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  Speaker 2: give till it hurts our therap partner pick yet. And
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: we want to thank our bosses, the mysterious and shrouded
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  Speaker 2: Well that's all the time we got to this week's session.
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  Speaker 5: I'm Next, I'm Whitney, I'm Jim.
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  Speaker 3: Weird Square, Peter and I watched the movie Philadelphia today.
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• 1:29:58
  Speaker 7: Was a line in there Best Stories, No, there was
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 7: a line in there is going to reference