Latest / Ryder Lee / The Truth of Flying Saucers & UFOs | Chris Aubeck

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The Truth of Flying Saucers & UFOs | Chris Aubeck · Ryder Lee

0:23
Welcome back to Raise by Giants Live discussion. Welcome everyone in the chat.
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Good to see you guys and any moderators out there and channel members. We
0:31
have a returning guest here today with US author, lecturer and researcher Chris Allbeck
0:37
here to have an amazing discussion about flying saucers myth because it is a myth,
0:42
they never were flying saucers. But before I bring Chris on with his
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amazing research, the quick reminder of super chatsia and superstickers are available and we'll
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2:01
So with that down, a warm welcome back to the show. Author,
2:06
lecturer and researcher, mister Chris Paul Beck. It's good to see you
2:10
again, my friend. How are you hi? Ah, I'm doing okay
2:15
here in Spain. It's pretty warm despite the time of day. Yeah,
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how's it going in Spain, my friend? You guys staying away from the
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rest of the world's problems or what? Yeah, I suppose so imagine we're
2:29
ready to make our own and share them. But now at the moment,
2:32
everything's going very well, there's not much COVID. No one's too worried about
2:39
nuclear weapons sitting us at the moment. I suppose the next big thing is
2:45
going to be AI that'll be a big threat. But apart from that,
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no, no one's too worried here, and that's why people come to retire
2:53
in in Spain. Well, I'm glad that everything is good over there.
2:59
So since the last time you were on, I started this series called the
3:02
Legends of Ufology, which I'm going to get back up on that at some
3:07
point. Here I'm just really busy at the moment and those shows take up
3:12
a lot of energy. But I've been trying to tell everyone about your book
3:16
Saucers, because the research in your book is really unbelievable. You really do
3:23
a great job researching into Kenneth Arnold and the UFO sightings, even before Kenneth
3:29
Arnald and the entire Flying Saucer narrative. And I don't have a copy here
3:35
with me because I recently moved, but it should be widely popular and you
3:40
should have sold thousands of copies of this book. It should be a number
3:45
one bestseller just to the high volume of research that's gone into it. But
3:53
with that being said, which I'm going to actually bring up the Amazon,
3:59
people can get it on Amazon. Is there any other place that people can
4:02
get it on? What's not coming up? It's on Amazon. I publish.
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I'm going to publish all my books through Amazon, basically because it gives
4:15
me a higher level of control over the over the books that I publish.
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I can make corrections or I can do whatever I want. And as you
4:27
know, this book is it's just it's got like five hundred images in it.
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It's incredibly well illustrated and in ways that people haven't seen before. I
4:38
think in a UFO book. I was quite creative in what I did here,
4:44
and that's worked really well. There's a review coming out by David Clark,
4:51
the folklore ufologist, who's given me a five star review. He said
4:59
it's and fourteen times, And yeah, I mean people are still expressing an
5:03
interest that The problem is, I suppose that it's a lot of people are
5:08
going to think it's a niche a niche subject, and that might be because
5:13
of the way that I wrote the Search for the Origin of Discoidal UFOs on
5:19
the on the cover. But but the fact is that I just wanted to
5:23
be completely honest that that's what it is. I wanted to do the first
5:26
ever, real, proper well done look into where we got the image of
5:34
sources shaped UFOs from. And yeah, the Oxford English Dictionary contacted me.
5:43
They want to amend their entry on the etymology of the word flying saucer based
5:49
on my book, and it's it hasn't sold thousands, but it's there and
5:55
it'll be there forever, and that I might make some kind of amendment to
5:59
it. But I think that it's someone had to come out and say it,
6:03
say where the flying saucer imagery came from? And that was me.
6:10
Well, I am trying to echo everything that you talk about in your book,
6:15
and I always try and shout you out whenever I talk about it or
6:17
talk about it on other people's shows. But that being sad, do you
6:23
think that people really want to know the truth when it comes to the flying
6:30
saucer and the UFO narrative, because I really don't think that they do,
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Chris, and I think that that's a like a really big issue within uphology.
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The problem with Okay, So, on the one hand, I'm not
6:51
going to deny that UFOs exist, in the sense that I saw one.
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That doesn't mean that I believe it was inhabited by little aliens who want to
7:00
eat meat for breakfast or anything like that. So I mean the concept of
7:05
unidentified flying objects exists. It's the it's the disc shaped ones that people are
7:12
really attached to. Because we're talking about at least four generations of people who've
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grown up associating flying source panelid objects to uf two. I mean with aliens
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and extraterrestrials, people who've probably who probably drew them at school. Who if
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ever a UFOs appeared in Scooby Doo, you know it'll it'll have been a
7:41
source of shaped one then and then you have like family members who from the
7:46
nineteen seventies or eighties, they'll say, well, yeah, I saw I
7:51
saw a flying saucer. And to deny the possibility that sources shaped objects exist
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also means it feels like you may be calling Uncle Tim a liar or whatever
8:07
you know in your family. So I mean people have sentimental attachment to the
8:13
disc shape. Although as I show very early on in the book, it's
8:20
such a tiny fraction of UFOs that a source of shaped that that attachment that
8:26
we have to them is not justified at all, you know, as I
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show in the book when I was working with Jacques Vallet years ago, about
8:39
fourteen fifteen years ago now on Wonders in the Sky. Basically, I mean,
8:45
whatever you think of that book, whatever anyone thinks of that book,
8:46
if it was good or garbage or whatever, the fact is we went through
8:52
every source that we could find, and we couldn't find source of shaped UFOs.
9:00
We just couldn't find any cases that were authentic. Well, I came
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to the conclusion that less than one percent of UFOs seen before Kenneth Arnold,
9:11
that is the twenty fourth of June nineteen, nineteen forty seven were disc shaped,
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less than one percent, and since the nineteen eighties nineteen nineties only about
9:28
five percent or less are disc shaped again. And what that means is that
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it was only around around fifty years in which disc shaped sources shaped objects were
9:41
seen or allegedly seen by people, which is somewhere like the career of the
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Rolling Stones. I imagine it's a very short period of time in human history.
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So I think that being so attached to the flying saucer is not very
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justified. Well, here's the thing. If people discover what a really good
10:07
researcher such as yourself or others have discovered, such as myself, there wouldn't
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be a community. And I guess that is what this ufology really is,
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is like an industry, right, It's a money making industry. And guess
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what happens when people find out really what's going on. That means that there's
10:31
no more money and it's simple really, But besides that, I think that
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that's really what's going on. People don't really want the truth behind what's happening
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with flying sorciers and UFOs because it completely wrecks and destroys their industry. I
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mean every single I mean even in the thumbnail of this video, I have
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the saucer shaped UFOs in the background. Every conference uses a sorcer shape UFO.
10:58
Anybody that wants to describe, like you're talking about drawing, they're going
11:03
to use a disc sheep UFO to describe the phenomenon on the front of any
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book I publish on this subject, so people know what we're talking about.
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And what I say in the book is that we we relate the disc to
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UFOs in the same way that people associate ghosts, wearing white sheets with ghosts.
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If you want to draw a ghost so that anyone from a small child
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to an old grandmother knows what it is instantly, you need to draw it
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with a sheet and big black eyes and they'll say ghost. Otherwise it could
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be anything. It could be a vampire, it could be your neighbor.
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And this is this is what's happened with UFOs. Whatever you do, you
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need to continue. You have to have to perpetuate the idea that UFO is
12:01
a disc shaped or otherwise people are just not going to understand what you're talking
12:07
about. So, yeah, that's that's how it works. That is exactly
12:13
how it works. Now, if people don't know what we're talking about,
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I'm sure people definitely do because I've done quite a few shows on it.
12:22
But let's get into let's touch on Kenneth Arnold really quickly, and then I
12:26
want to get into a few other things. Did you have communication at all
12:31
with his family during the writing of this book, like surviving family members?
12:39
Yeah? I did. Yeah, I thought it was the best thing to
12:43
do because I was writing about, you know, in a sort of living
12:50
legend, in a sort of dead legend. That's certainly one that lives on
12:54
in in popular culture, and he has he has family surviving members. His
12:58
daughter to Kim, for example, was very helpful while I was doing the
13:05
research on the book. Were any questions that came up I could, I
13:09
could send her an email and that was good. And I also spoke to
13:15
to Kenneth Arnold's granddaughter, Chanel, and that was very nice too. So
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it's very interesting how Arnold's memory, well memory of Arnold has has impacted that
13:28
family, because I mean, Chanelle has a tattoo with the date and everything
13:33
on her body. Kim like lives and breathes her father's memory. It's something
13:39
that affected a family and then of course everyone around that family. If it
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hadn't been for Arnold, much of what we associate with extraterrestrials wouldn't exist these
13:52
days. So yeah, I had contact with them. I would have liked
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to have done something bigger with Kim, with Kenneth Arnold's daughter, but she
14:03
was a little bit suspicious of cooperating with anyone living outside the United States,
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even the state I believe, So in the end, I was planning on
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helping her write a book, a definitive book on this subject because she's never
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done it. But in the end it fell through. But that's sign I
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mean, I understand people are probably quite suspicious of you know, I have
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no economic interest in that at all. I have no financial motivation. But
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she felt that maybe I would because most people who've approached a family in the
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past have had a financial interest in the story. They've stolen things and taken
14:45
photographs, so they shouldn't have. I wanted to respect them as much as
14:50
possible. How did they feel about your book? And I'm sure they read
14:56
it right? What did they think of it? Yeah? I sent a
15:00
copy to each of them. Kim really liked it, she didn't tell me
15:03
directly, her daughter did. And Chanel, the granddaughter, she really liked
15:11
it too. You can see her in a Facebook post with the book in
15:13
her hand. They both liked it. I'm pretty sure that it's something that
15:18
they will be able to use as reference in the future, because there are
15:24
a lot of details in it that they didn't know themselves. I managed to
15:31
work out the dates and locations of maybe all of Kenneth Arnold's other sightings.
15:39
There are probably about nine altogether, and even the fact that Arnold's wife Doris
15:48
also saw theoretically at least a flying saucer, and that was mentioned in newspapers.
15:54
The family didn't know that either, So yeah, I'm pretty sure that
15:58
there'll be they'll remember this book and they'll refer back to it quite a lot.
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And as I said, I do speak respectfully of Kenneth Arnold because I
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think that he was he was an honest man. He might have been a
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little bit confused towards the end, but he honestly reported what he saw.
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I think he definitely got confused, and I think that it became such a
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frenzy topic and everybody else just relating their experiences on top of his, and
16:27
then he turned into something that it was never supposed to be from the very
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beginning. And how did they deal with the misnomer of Kenneth Arnold never seeing
16:41
that the shape of the craft was sorcerer in shape. It flew like skipping
16:48
across the water. Yeah, this was This was an important part of my
16:53
book because what I show is, and this is the main thesis, that
16:59
the that the expression flying saucer was already in common use in June nineteen forty
17:06
seven, and before that it had been in common use for about sixty years,
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and I go into great detail in the book about how that came about
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and the importance of that its contribution to the spreading of the myth of flying
17:25
sources. And they were very surprised. They told me that Kenneth had gone
17:32
to the grave believing that he had accidentally created the term flying saucer. He
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wasn't sure how. He himself believed that he must have said it in one
17:44
of the initial interviews and that it had been misinterpreted. In reality, that's
17:49
not what happened at all, and that's something that I show in the book.
17:56
I sort of hope that at some point somebody who it's Wikipedia, will
18:00
will take this into account, because it still hasn't been corrected anywhere. He
18:07
didn't invent the term. It was already in existence, and because it was
18:12
already in existence, journalists everywhere invented it independently. Yeah, it was flying
18:22
saucers was a sport of trap shooting, predated Arnold sightings over sixty years.
18:30
That's right. Yeah, it was around eighteen eighty eighteen eighty one that a
18:33
guy called George Legowski invented a clay disc used in trap shooting. The reason
18:41
he invented it was because live bird shooting had been forbidden about a decade before
18:51
that. The people started using glass balls that shattered in the air, but
18:57
of course there were lots of environmental problems related to that, so he invented
19:03
a non hazardous solution, the disc and almost immediately people began calling it a
19:12
flying saucer, quite logically because it was sources shaped and it flew. It
19:17
wasn't the only term they gave it, but it was one of the most
19:21
popular ones. So if you look back, anyone can do it, go
19:26
back into the newspaper archives of the eighteen eighties, eighteen nineties and so on,
19:33
and discover that people were talking about flying sources at you know, the
19:37
first time you see it's quite shocking to hear of sportsmen trying to fire at
19:45
flying saucers and finding it difficult. And then what happened was that in the
19:52
nineteen tens, twenties, thirties, the sport of trap shooting was incredibly popular.
20:00
It was one of the most popular sports in the whole of the United
20:03
States. But this is a fact that had been forgotten by the nineteen fifties
20:07
and sixties, and the reason why it was abandoned was that well, during
20:17
during the war or the wars, the government and the military demanded that any
20:23
bullets and weapons be sent to the war effort instead of being used or wasted
20:34
on leisure activities. So trap shooting was de emphasized. But then the interesting
20:42
thing is that in nineteen forty four, when America and the other countries were
20:51
training their gunners to fight against the Nazis, they began using the clay discs
21:00
invented by George Legowski to train their pilots to shoot enemy aircraft. So an
21:11
interesting situation comes about in which, in three years four years before Arnold,
21:18
people were talking in the newspapers about flying sources being used for training purposes and
21:27
how their gunners were firing at flying sources. I mean, this was in
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the newspapers. Another interesting thing was that just a coincidence, but the man
21:36
associated with all of this was a man called General Arnold, and so people
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associated the name Arnold with flying saurces in the mid nineteen forties, and then
21:48
it's suddenly in nineteen forty seven it was a completely different Arnold and a completely
21:52
different kind of flying saucer. But it's a very obvious evolution of very simple
22:00
development that happened, and it really did have a massive impact on euquology because
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people immediately associated what Arnold said he'd seen with flying sauces, and the word
22:15
spread. That's how it happened. Could you mute your notifications on your computer
22:22
really quickly, students who are writing and sending me their homework, Yeah,
22:30
if you could just mute that really quickly. So we have clay pigeons being
22:33
called floring saucers since eighteen eighty, hundreds of thousands of people being familiar with
22:40
the term, the military adopting the term. The general that was in charge
22:45
was named Arnold. They basically take the practice of trap shooting in the early
22:51
forties during World War two. Two years after the war ended, we get
22:55
the term floring saucers, but in a different context. This is all laid
23:02
out in great detail in your book Sorcerers. And really what we have here,
23:10
Chris, is that the entire subject of ufology it has been based on
23:18
this flying saucer narrative, and ufology has been using the shape of a round
23:25
disc when it was never described by Arnold as a flying saucer. So we've
23:30
literally had the shape round this entire time, for what would be seventy seven
23:37
years now, we've essentially been telling and regurgitating a misrepresentation of what Arnold said
23:45
that he saw, and out of Arnold's own words, which is in your
23:51
book as well, and he makes comments of what others claim to have saw
23:56
at that time was what wasn't the same or it was pretty much nothing at
24:03
all. Well, you see, the first time he used a descriptive adjective,
24:08
he said it was bat shaped or bat like, And he said this
24:14
in the first interviews that he gave in Pendleton, and that was signed,
24:19
that was published. He didn't say that they were sources shaped, but he
24:25
did say that they were shaped like a bat. And that original article was
24:32
published. I believe it would have been the June twenty fifth. I'd have
24:34
to look it up. I think that June twenty fifth, but it was
24:37
only published that way in the local press. Now, when when that article
24:44
by William Beckett, who spent five hours with Kenneth Arnold at a hotel trying
24:49
to get all the details from him. When when that article was rewritten and
24:56
reduced slightly for or national distribution, because that's the way newsagencies worked at that
25:04
time. You would publish an article and then you would make a shorter version
25:10
and send it out along, you know, through the airwaves, for smaller
25:14
newspapers to pick up and publish. Well, it's yeah. They all these
25:21
different newspapers published the same story quite accurately, except for one detail. They
25:27
they forgot to mention the bat shape, or William Beckett omitted it in his
25:33
in his reduced version, and that had a fantastic enormous impact on the whole
25:38
of the field, because if if Arnold's only adjective, his only shape adjective
25:47
was bat shaped, and that's the only word that they omitted. All the
25:52
other references he made to very very thin. He said that they were very
25:56
thin, like a saucer, which was a an expression said at that time.
26:02
These days we would say like a pancake, for example. At that
26:04
time it was quite common to say saucer. Other other references like that,
26:10
in people's minds would create a kind of a disc shaped object. People visualized
26:18
a disc from the from the few clues in that text. So of course
26:25
he said he saw a kind of bat or crescent shape or whatever. And
26:29
he told other journalists what he'd seen, and people totally ignored it because that
26:36
article was spread far and wide in a matter of hours. So immediately people
26:42
came up with the funny expression a flying saucer, and yeah, that's that's
26:49
how it happened. And then he kept insisting that he'd seen half moon,
26:56
a crescent, whatever, a bat shape, but nobody paid any attention to
27:03
him at all, and that's what caused the myth. Really, it's a
27:10
bit of a shame in a sense, though, I mean, it'll be
27:12
more interesting if we did have bat shaped UFOs these days, behalf well.
27:18
In I think it was June of nineteen forty seven, Arnold came out with
27:22
a drawing of the craft that he saw, right, and it's bat shaped,
27:29
well, I mean what would be described as you know, bat shaped?
27:33
You know that doesn't look like a normal standard UFO that everyone is used
27:37
to, right. It looks circular and weaned in the back, just like
27:41
Arnold said that it was. And you would think that with Arnold coming out
27:47
with a drawing of the craft that he saw and him endorsing this drawing would
27:56
stop all of the disc talk flying a sorcerer at talk, But it didn't.
28:03
It's a little bit more complicated than that, unfortunately, and that's it
28:07
got out of hand. I mean, firstly, we have to remember that
28:10
this is a guy who was It was a very simple family and it still
28:14
is a very simple family. They didn't have higher studies. They weren't.
28:19
Kenneth Arnold wasn't particularly articulate, and the news spread so quickly that he had
28:26
no control over anything. The first drawing he ever did was this, As
28:33
far as we know, this is this is it, okay, And he
28:37
was trying to capture the idea of the half moon. You can see it's
28:42
a kind of crescent. You can see it's the kind of whatever. But
28:45
that was the first drawing he ever made, which was published a couple of
28:49
days later, or at least we think he made it. It doesn't directly
28:52
say that he made it. But a few years later a very similar drawing
28:56
was published that we know he made himself, so very likely that was his.
29:03
But then when he drew it again for the for the American Air Force,
29:11
he drew it like this, and this is when it begins to get
29:15
a little bit confusing. Again, it's not a source, so it's not
29:18
a disc but why would he why would he draw it like that? And
29:23
what I what I did was to show the most likely explanation. I mean,
29:30
why why would Arnold, an aviator, someone who followed technology very closely
29:37
draw this? And the simple reason is that it looked like a flying flapjack,
29:44
which was one of the most popular super advanced aircraft that had been invented
29:51
recently. I'm going to show you a picture of that if I can find
29:55
one. The factors that the flying flapjack had appeared in newspapers that very month.
30:02
It was like on the cover of a magazine. So when he tried
30:07
to express to the AAF that it was an advanced kind of aircraft, of
30:12
course that's what he had in his mind. The fact is he called the
30:18
object that he did see a bat or bat shaped, because the word bat
30:25
was also being used in aviation at that time and had been used for about
30:30
thirty years. The most advanced aircraft were called bat shaped. So he didn't
30:36
invent that either. He didn't just draw some animal out of the out of
30:40
thin air. He used terminology to describe what he saw. It was like
30:45
the most advanced kind of aircraft at that time. They I'll show you them.
30:51
Yeah, this is this is the this is what he's what he drew
30:53
there, and we can see that this is the flying flapjack that was in
31:00
all of the newspapers and magazines at the time, practically the same, the
31:06
same design, and that's a military craft. Yeah yeah, but I think
31:14
it was built privately by company too. I don't remember it's in the book,
31:18
but it was. It was. It was like a celebrity aircraft at
31:21
that time, at a time when when aircraft could be celebrities, and so
31:27
I think that's the reason he drew it like that. But bit by bit
31:33
as he tried to remember what he saw, because of course it was only
31:37
a few seconds that he saw any of this anyway, a minute least at
31:41
the most, he realized that what he saw was crescent shaped or bat shaped,
31:49
half moon shaped, and that's what he told everybody. There was a
31:55
point too, in which, as everyone around him was calling him the flying
32:00
saucer man, as everyone around him was saying, ah, you saw flying
32:05
saucers, he would have to say yes. He wouldn't say no, I
32:08
didn't see flying sources, so were flying bat And because what we're talking about
32:13
is like one hundreds of thousands of people contact him, contacting him constantly.
32:17
He ended up using the word saucer himself, so he was able to sort
32:25
of maintain in his mind the fact that he saw something of a totally different
32:30
shape, but call it saucer. But which is something that English language speakers
32:35
do all the time anyway, which is why we talk about black boxes and
32:37
they're really orange and so on and so forth. So he was caught up
32:43
in the words saucer himself, so with well, I mean this, who
32:51
drew this image here? He Arnold didn't draw that, did he? Or
32:54
is that something that was a local artist? He he got this local artist.
33:00
What happened was he got so incredibly tired with all of this that he
33:05
ended up creating visitors cards, which are also around the book. And these
33:12
these little cards showed anybody who was interested this this actual picture here, but
33:19
it was it was made by a local artist. So he could give this
33:23
to everybody, or little reproductions of it and say, look, this is
33:29
what I saw, Okay, so don't believe anybody else. This is what
33:34
I saw. And I suppose that it didn't work, because here we are,
33:37
all these years later discussing discussing what shape craft he saw, but that
33:44
was in nineteen sixty. The first time that you actually see him draw the
33:49
bat shaped crescent shaped object was for an FBI document and it's dated August nineteen
33:57
forty seven. Show you that it's such a long book, next time on
34:04
a shorter one. There you see it's just just over there, and you
34:08
can see that it's the problem is the FBI document that anyone can consult.
34:15
There's a pdf online. You can see the wing which looks a little bit
34:19
like a sort of a bat wing, a batter rang that batman might have
34:24
thrown. And he definitely drew this, I mean, and that is from
34:29
August nineteen forty seven, and that is something that cannot be argued against.
34:35
This is, I mean, from the beginning, that is what he said
34:38
he saw, and that is what he drew. Slightly different from the original
34:42
one that he did for their force it looked like a flying flapjack. But
34:45
after that he was pretty consistent about it. So this one came out in
34:51
nineteen sixties, I mean nineteen sixty or very late nineteen fifties. Yeah,
34:57
when he started there, this was far after his original sighting. Then well,
35:04
yeah, but I mean, yes, but it was thirteen years I
35:07
mean, you might think that nineteen sixty is way beyond nineteen forty seven,
35:13
that what were you doing thirteen years ago? Probably nothing too different from today.
35:16
It's not that far ahead. But apart from the fact that he'd been
35:21
talking about this shape for years and years, well, it would be that
35:24
far ahead whenever the media frenzy happened. I mean, that's kind of late
35:29
in the game to come out with this sophisticated drawing of exactly what he saw.
35:35
I mean, to change people's minds about what the media and the newspapers
35:40
have been claiming that he'd be seeing. That would be very difficult in my
35:45
mind, right because going on for a really long time, well, we
35:50
have to remember that he was no longer the center of attention. He might
35:54
have been the trigger behind the UFO craze, but he wasn't the center of
36:00
attention anymore because his story wasn't that exciting. He saw nine of them,
36:07
congratulations, he saw nine. That's great, But his story it wasn't interesting.
36:15
He just saw nine of them at an enormous distance, fly past and
36:19
goodbye, and that was it. So lots of other people came up with
36:24
stories about contacting aliens and landings and meeting whatever, and dead bodies and wrecks.
36:35
That is what drew all the attention. So we're talking about someone who
36:39
lost his position at the center of the field. So he could have said
36:45
that what he'd seen was made of chocolate and looked like dog poop, and
36:49
nobody would have paid any attention at all because it was just too late.
36:52
In fact, he came up with all kinds of crazy theories of his own,
36:57
and nobody paid paid any attention. All he achieved was to look like
37:01
a crank. He was very, very independent. It was a very independent
37:07
thinker, which is very natural. He wasn't sucked into the media frenzy.
37:14
So he had his own thoughts. One of them was that maybe these were
37:17
not these these were not vessels at all, but actual organic creatures that he'd
37:27
seen in the sky. That went completely against what other people had been saying.
37:32
You know, so, but nobody paid any attention to him, so
37:36
it was too late. And when he started doing that, it was too
37:38
late. Yeah, yeah, that's my My was my point is, by
37:45
the time this photo came out, it was kind of too late. But
37:46
that's not for the lack of him trying. I mean, I think it
37:51
seems like he definitely did try to kind of give back in the spotlight of
37:57
what was going on during that time with his other side. I mean,
38:00
you said that it's in your book that he had like nine other sightings.
38:04
When did he start talking about these other sightings that he was having? How
38:09
long after his initial sighting in nineteen forty seven, Well, because he had
38:14
another sighting a few months later, which he talked about. So I mean
38:22
nineteen forty eight was the second one. Oh well, no, I mean
38:24
nineteen forty seven was the second one that he didn't speak about it about that
38:28
for for a while, but in the nineteen sixties he certainly spoke about what
38:32
he'd seen. He said that he'd taken photographs of them. There'd been multiple
38:38
witnesses, all that kind of thing. But a lot of UFO witnesses,
38:47
real ones or fake ones, do get carried away with their sightings. So
38:53
there were lots and lots of writers who might have initially written a very interesting
38:59
book report, but then you check back on them fifteen years later and they're
39:04
saying, yeah, I was abducted at the age of three, and I've
39:07
seen UFOs in my garden and you start to think, oh my god.
39:12
Now I don't know whether to believe the first thing he reported or not,
39:15
but I think I'm not a very good example of someone who who definitely saw
39:22
something, who reported something very honestly, but later on just got slightly paranoid
39:29
about lights in the sky. And so it's a bit like Whigley Strieber,
39:32
who, you know, his first book, Communion, did really well,
39:37
but then you say, you pick up his later books and he goes to
39:40
this million year old school on another planet and time travels, and you start
39:45
thinking, oh, okay, right, I think I should stop reading his
39:49
books from this point onwards, because they have to one up themselves every single
39:54
time. You know, It's like it's like creating a sequel to a movie.
39:58
If you're not going to create it's like Hollywood. You know, if
40:00
you're going to make a sequel to a movie, you've got to make the
40:02
sequel bigger, better, and badder than the first one. You know.
40:07
That's how I related It is the exact same type of thing in the story
40:10
snowball into something that it never really was. And that's from the influence of
40:17
everybody else, and there are stories, and then they jump on the UFO
40:22
train, and then it turns into this big, huge, gigantic fairy tale
40:28
story that has no basis in reality. You see that in everything. You
40:32
see that in crop circles. It started off as very simple circles and then
40:37
ended up being ridiculous, gigantic works of art in fields. You see that
40:44
in them eighteen ninety six eighteen ninety seven airship wave, where firstly people just
40:50
reported airships that had human inventors behind them. I mean they were fake stories
40:57
in general anyway, but you could see how they worked. They were based
41:04
on inventors and engineers who really existed, and these plans really existed and ended
41:09
up being extremely extravagant tales of crashed airships with tentacled aliens and whatever. This
41:21
is the way it works. It just goes up and up and up.
41:23
It escalates, and it's a bit sad when it happens to someone who genuinely
41:30
saw something. But yeah, I mean, we can't imagine the world he
41:36
was caught up in, because of course it didn't exist in nineteen forty seven.
41:40
If you saw something today, you wouldn't you wouldn't get caught up in
41:45
it in the same way. In nineteen forty seven, you were the first,
41:50
You were the top, you were the one, and no one had
41:52
even heard of, you know, any of this. Well they had,
41:57
and that's another part of my studies, but not in not in the same
42:00
on the same scale. I like that you brought up crop circles right there,
42:05
because I've been waiting to play this video of this gentleman that's doing this.
42:12
Uh. I mean it's sand, he's doing it in sand, right,
42:16
but it's very sophisticated and it gets very wild with geometrical patterns here as
42:24
he goes along. And my point of like crop circles is like, well,
42:29
if they can do this on sand, they can make this a very
42:31
sophisticated Uh. This is a book I brought out in Spanish a while ago,
42:37
and it's about crop circles. And I believe I'm not one hundred percent
42:42
show, but I believe the guy who's walking around there is probably Julian Richardson,
42:46
who I interviewed for the book, and he's one of the one of
42:51
the most important land artists. They're not really crop crop circle makers anymore.
42:55
They're land artists and sophistication of I mean, obviously again it's on sand,
43:04
but I mean the sophistication of that. You just pick that up and you
43:07
take that to, you know, a cornfield, and you get the exact
43:12
same thing. You know, it's almost identical to crops. Well, you
43:19
know, the one of the one of the things about crop circles a decade
43:23
or two ago now was the presence of a kind of weird symbol that you'd
43:29
find next to a lot of of the crop circles. It looks like a
43:34
sort of weird key thing like that with the circle in the middle. And
43:37
you could see the same symbol on so many different crop circle layouts over the
43:44
decades. It just seemed like an obvious sign that they were real. And
43:49
anyway, I interviewed this guy, Julian Richardson, and it was fascinating because
43:55
of course, this symbol here is simple play friends of Julian, That's all
44:01
it is. And it's just an F and O and a J. And
44:06
it was like a secret symbol that groups related to him would add to their
44:13
crop circles. And I've seen so many videos and articles conferences in which someone's
44:19
trying to speculate about the meaning of that, the hidden meaning of this symbol.
44:22
It's just friends of Julian. So yeah, and I don't I don't
44:29
think I'll published this book in English anytime soon, but it's available in Spanish
44:34
if anyone wants to. Yeah, it's just wild how these stories and excuse
44:42
me still getting over a little healing here. It's wild how these stories get
44:50
regurgitated and then they take on a different form, and then other people get
44:53
involved, and then it turns into something that's completely ridiculous, and like me
45:00
up, I mean the Arnold's second story was what was the second signing?
45:06
He said that he saw I think it was a cluster of like twenty to
45:09
twenty five brass collared objects or something like that, and he them to looking
45:15
like ducks. He said that they look like ducks, and they appeared to
45:21
be around and rough on the top. And he said that they flew in
45:23
like a cluster and more like rock birds than ducks. Right, And according
45:30
to Arnold, he said that they weren't ducks and they weren't birds. But
45:34
whenever you use a descriptor of and I understand what some people are trying to
45:38
do, especially some of these early people, they try and relate the object
45:43
that they saw to things that people can recognize, just like the flying saucer
45:50
narrative. But whenever you say something looks like ducks, then it's like,
45:54
oh, well, it was probably ducks. I mean, they jokes about
46:00
the quack being, you know, in the sky watching the ducks. So
46:04
I don't know they could have made, you know. But the fact is
46:07
that he when he landed, he interviewed people who'd been on the ground at
46:12
that time around that area and said, did you see what I saw?
46:15
These these duck like objects, and they said, yeah, we saw those
46:21
ducks, which is you know, and I don't know, I don't know.
46:25
And then over time that sort of metamorphoses into discs. So at first
46:31
he says they look like ducks, and then he says they looked like discs.
46:36
But I mean, but then of course he also denied ever seeing disc
46:40
like objects. It's extremely confusing when when when you look through the story of
46:45
Kenneth Arnold and the book just I think it's the first time anyone's ever like
46:51
gone through the whole chronology of his claims, you can see that there's a
46:54
point of no return for him, he just he just loses it. I
46:59
mean, he's he's he was very sincere, very very good natured witness,
47:07
but there's a point in which he doesn't know what to think anymore. He
47:12
was really confused. I mean, once you reach the conclusion that they're probably
47:16
organic beings and not and not machines, the UFOs, then suddenly you can't
47:24
believe that they're carrying people inside anymore, or aliens because they wouldn't be.
47:30
And then you would discard all of the stories about a crew of aliens who
47:38
come out of the of the ship, and yeah, it's it was a
47:43
very complex time for him. And then of course he also had his own
47:45
personal views about the afterlife, and he wasn't a very spiritual person, but
47:54
by the end of this he's his beliefs included the flying sources were probably related
48:04
to messengers from the next world who would sort of guide us after death or
48:10
whatever. I don't know. This this is basically what he thought in the
48:15
end, and I mean he wanted to relate it to like the Bible and
48:21
the Book of Ezekiel and like all these different things. Like a lot of
48:24
people, he was probably one of the first people to do that and later
48:29
came on what's his name. He wasn't the first person to do it.
48:44
He wasn't even the first person. During the Flying Saucer Age, and decades
48:49
and decades before Arnold, they had already associated Ezekiel with possible aliens and other
48:58
worldly things, and people had actually tried to build airships based on Ezekiel's description
49:06
in the Bible, and that was fifty years before Kenneth Arnold. And in
49:13
my first book, Alien Artifacts, I show how people use this story too.
49:19
It's a very old idea, but by comparing what he saw to what
49:24
the profit Ezekiel saw, it sort of turned him into a profit or at
49:31
least a very important person at the same time. So I wouldn't be surprised
49:37
if he had some sort of delusions of grandeur at that point, and people
49:44
lapped it up because in the world of UFOs, no one really knows what's
49:51
happening, if anything, at all, which means that anyone can be a
49:54
leader of a group of thinkers or whatever. And I think he saw himself
50:00
like that. It's the only thing that you can be an expert on and
50:05
not have a degree. That's that's right. It's it's interesting. I mean,
50:09
even in ornithology, you get different species of birds that you I don't
50:15
think you'll find the same flying saucer twice in photos, and you don't see
50:20
the same ufo twice normally. It's it's a it's it's a weird thing.
50:25
It's this sort of cognitive dissidence in which people are able to think that it's
50:31
all part of the same phenomenon, whereas in fact, everyone's describing something totally
50:37
different. And even when they describe an alien, they're always different, and
50:42
they have different messages and and different motivations, and and you look back and
50:47
you just see how every decade had its favorite alien type. And you know,
50:53
you can how how do you become an expert in in upology in that
50:59
sense, or in anything? If you were looking at stones minerals, if
51:02
you never saw the same mineral twice, I mean, what could you possibly
51:07
do with that? Or vegetables or animals or whatever. Yeah, it's a
51:13
crazy old field. So that's why we spend most of our time studying eufologists
51:20
instead of studying UFOs. Yeah, I agree. And there's something else that
51:25
I wanted to talk to you about that I was mentioning to you before we
51:29
started the show. Here today was Kenneth Oarnod was connected with this guy named
51:35
Samuel Eaton Thompson. And there's no photos of Samuel Etan Thompson, but supposedly
51:45
this gentleman was one of the very first abductees. Some people will call it
51:51
contact, but he claimed that on the evening of March twenty eighth, nineteen
51:58
fifty, he was driving home in Washington he came across a large flying saucer
52:02
in the woods. The saucer claimed to be about eighty feet to thirty feet
52:07
tall. Two naked, deeply tanned children human in form were playing near the
52:13
craft's entrance. Thompson claimed that he had approached to within about fifty feet of
52:16
the saucer, which emitted a strong sunlight heat. Several naked adults, humanoid
52:22
attractive and also deeply tanned, then appeared at the crafts store. After realizing
52:28
Thompson meant them no harm, they beckoned him closer to The crew consisted of
52:31
around twenty adults and twenty five children, and Thompson claimed to have spent the
52:37
next forty hours with the humanoids, so roughly close to three days a couple
52:45
of days. They claimed that they were from Venus, he learned, and
52:50
that they had stopped at Earth, despite the fact that other Venetian sorcers had
52:53
been shot down by Earth based military forces. The Venetians said that all of
52:58
Earth's problems stemmed from astrology humans were under Humans were born under different star signs,
53:05
while Venetians were all born under the sign of Venus, as was Thompson.
53:10
The Venetians further claimed that Thompson that they were vegetarian as they never grew
53:15
ill. Thompson also claimed that the Venetians were a naive like children. They
53:20
did not know who built their flying sorcers and seemed to possess little to no
53:23
curiosity. Thompson claimed that he was the first of many Earthlings who would meet
53:29
the Venetians, and after humanity had seen the wisdom of the Venetians ways,
53:34
Jesus Christ would return in ten thousand AD. Holy crap, Chris, we
53:38
got a long time before Jesus comes back. Holy shit. Thompson claimed that
53:44
he had stayed on the spaceship until March thirtieth, nineteen fifty. Tried to
53:47
photograph the spaceship, he claimed, but the object was too bright to appear
53:52
on film, and more than a blob of light. He could see the
53:54
Venetians at any time that he wanted, So all he had to do was
53:58
contact. Just showed up one time, and then now you can just see
54:01
him whenever. They enabled his telepathic psychic abilities. So after this, I
54:12
guess Kenneth Arnold which side he was in nineteen forty seven, and then Sammuel
54:17
Waton Thompson was in nineteen fifty. He guess Kenneth Thornold interviewed Thompson, as
54:25
it says right here, and apparently Arnold did not take or believe his story
54:31
was literally true, but neither could he accept that poorly educated, seemingly Sierra
54:37
Thompson was a blatant liar or a prankster. Arnold speculated that Thompson might have
54:42
had a psychic experience. And I just thought that this story was very interesting
54:49
because no one really knows anything about Samuel wat and Thompson. They don't talk
54:53
about him because very few people even know that he But you were telling me
55:01
that contact these and abductees have been happening way earlier than this. So give
55:10
us some stories and some examples of some of the earliest contact or well,
55:17
I mean the first book that I call it my first book because it's the
55:22
first book in a series which is basically called the Alien Artifact Project. I
55:28
invented that years ago before lots of other books were called Alien Artifacts, but
55:31
anyway, whatever, and then I brought up this one, which is the
55:35
first one, and it's done really well, and it's had like one hundred
55:40
good reviews and whatever. It's it's it's really really well received. But the
55:45
point is in this book, for the first time, I've I've shown the
55:51
origins of the belief in alien visitation, going back to the first EVA cases.
55:59
I start off talking about how people believed in the plurality of inhabited worlds,
56:06
and then how religion picked that up pretty quickly, how I became an
56:09
important topic in theology to discuss whether Jesus Christ only came to this planet,
56:16
which wouldn't make sense in an infinite universe, or at least in a universe
56:21
full of planets. So did he die on every other planet too? Did
56:27
he take human form everywhere he went? These are big theological questions a very
56:31
long time. So what was really quickly what was the conclusion of that.
56:37
What did you find out about that? Because that's been a long held question
56:43
of mine as well. Like, if Jesus really did exist, then what
56:47
do other planets also believe in Jesus? Would Jesus go to? All if
56:52
if we're taking the stance that the universe is highly inhabited and that there are
56:57
other beings on other planets, we were to pick up and go to a
57:00
distant far a planet, the distant far galaxy, and there was beings that
57:05
lived on that planet, like physical beings, would they also have heard of
57:09
Jesus or is it just singular to planet Earth. Well, my opinion about
57:21
that is probably irrelevant, but I doubt very much they would have heard of
57:28
Christianity any number of reasons. But the point is that theologians reach Vatican theologians
57:39
reach the conclusion that the universe is infinitely large. This was an idea that
57:49
originally seemed anti religious because God doesn't mention the existence of other planets in the
57:59
Bible. But then it was decided in the year thirteen seventy seven that we
58:07
can't say that if God wanted to move planet Earth, for example, in
58:13
one direction or another, we can't say he cannot do it. Because he's
58:17
God. He can do whatever he wants. So of course, if he
58:20
wanted to move the world in any direction, he can. But logically,
58:24
if he can move the world in any direction, there must be space for
58:29
it to go. Like you're moving a fridge in the kitchen. You just
58:31
need to be able to wiggle it out and put it somewhere else. And
58:37
so they reached the conclusion that the universe must be extremely large and much larger
58:45
than we expected, and God wouldn't have wasted his time on making only one
58:51
inhabited planet, and therefore there are probably thousands, if not infinite number of
58:55
inhabited planets in the universe, which is what the ancient Greeks had already decided
59:00
in a school of thought called atomism. Anyway, then this became a topic
59:07
of hot debate among theologians, the clergy, Vatican people for centuries. So
59:15
there were whole books and treatises devoted to the topic of extraterrestrials in the universe
59:22
at seven hundred, eight hundred years ago, and then there wasn't there wasn't
59:31
a consensus on it. But what happened was that by the sixteenth seventeenth century,
59:37
everybody basically believed it was highly likely that there were aliens in the universe.
59:44
Where is another matter of course, the Moon was an obvious choice.
59:50
Nobody yet really talked about Mars. But yeah, people even talked about aliens
59:55
in the Sun. A lot of people in the nineteenth century speculated about extraterrestrial
1:00:01
life on the Sun, and then around the eighteenth century, seventeen fifty eight
1:00:09
to be precise, that's when we get Immanuel Swedenborg, who was the first
1:00:15
real contactee. And he was an extremely intelligent man with multiple doctorates and a
1:00:25
very important position in the government in Sweden, an amazing inventor. And he
1:00:32
said that he'd contacted aliens throughout the universe and particularly in our solar system.
1:00:38
He talked to them on a regular basis. He exchanged ideas with them,
1:00:44
particularly the Mercurians, very similar to our grays in the sense that they were
1:00:51
telepathic. Didn't use the word telepathy didn't exist in seventeen fifty eight, but
1:00:57
he talked about how they would enter his mind and read his thoughts like a
1:01:02
sort of rolodex of images or whatever. And yeah, he established contact with
1:01:09
the universe. His books are still believed in there's still a Swedenborg Institute or
1:01:16
three. I believe in the United States. There are people who still follow
1:01:21
him. But he started it, and then the books that he wrote,
1:01:27
he wrote one about Earth's in the universe. It was called This book was
1:01:34
read by Joseph Smith of the Mormons. It was read by a lot of
1:01:37
other religious leaders who then adapted aliens into their own religious worldview. And then
1:01:49
suddenly you have a situation in which you have three or four religions in the
1:01:52
nineteenth in the mid nineteenth century which were highly respective to stories about aliens,
1:02:01
and so you find in lots of Mormon books stories and speculation about aliens.
1:02:09
Then, of course this evolved into stories about ancient aliens because they it was
1:02:17
it was believed for quite a long period in the nineteenth century that our ancestors
1:02:23
came from out of space literally, and that that humanity had originated on another
1:02:30
planet. This was a this was a theory. I don't even remember your
1:02:37
question, but I was just going to carry on till I end up this
1:02:38
idea. In eighteen twenty three, a guy called Francois Chambrier publish this book,
1:02:47
and it has taken me nineteen years to get this book, and then
1:02:53
finally I received it at Christmas. And in this in this book here from
1:02:59
me to twenty three, which I'm gonna I'm going to publish it something about
1:03:02
this very soon, and probably the whole book. He said that a planet
1:03:07
exploded in our solar system in ancient times. The people from that planet came
1:03:14
here sort of Superman fashion, brought with them all kinds of tools and advanced
1:03:21
civilization and whatever, which explains oupats and and the I mean he gets into
1:03:28
pyramids and then and then the people who copied him started talking about Easter islands,
1:03:35
island statues, pyramids and all kinds of stuff. So it was a
1:03:38
whole Voondanican universe more than one hundred years before Vondanican, who I was thinking
1:03:47
about earlier. They talked about the Book of Ezekiel and all that. Yeah,
1:03:53
the regrigit, the regrigitation is is obviously provalent winded. What was that
1:04:00
book that you're holding, womens are written two hundred and one years ago,
1:04:06
eighteen twenty three, eighteen twenty three. It wasn't she in any case,
1:04:15
but I've been looking for it for twenty years and it's in French, by
1:04:20
the way, so I have to translate. The fact is that by von
1:04:27
Dnikan's time, people had already believed in ancient aliens and humanities, origin and
1:04:38
the stars and so on and so forth for one hundred and fifty years,
1:04:43
and it was incredibly popular. Even when Madame Blavatski, the leader of theosophy,
1:04:49
who had a being impact on later UFO writers, when she wrote a
1:04:55
little bit about it at the end of the nineteenth century, it was already
1:04:59
old. Had it had been around for sixty years, which is a huge
1:05:01
amount of time. So yeah, contactees were not strange in that period.
1:05:11
Then anyone involved in spiritualism, which was a massive, massive movement, bigger
1:05:17
than UFOs and in the nineteenth century, from around the middle the eighteen forties
1:05:26
onwards, it is so huge. We're talking about millions and millions and millions
1:05:30
and millions, like there are fifteen million Mormons in the world, and it
1:05:34
was probably a similar number. And many of these people believed that they were
1:05:39
in contact with aliens, because again this escalated in the sense that at the
1:05:46
beginning they were talking to your granddad who died last year and whatever. But
1:05:53
then they had to sort of better each other, and that there was a
1:05:56
point in which they adopted this book by Manual Swedenborg from seventeen fifty eight.
1:06:02
They started creating a kind of mythology around this. So in spiritualism they were
1:06:12
contacting aliens. They had long conversations with people on Jupiter and that kind of
1:06:16
thing. So you have that going on. Then, at the beginning of
1:06:21
the twentieth century, speaking to aliens was so incredibly common that it manifested a
1:06:29
lot in paranoia's illnesses, mental illnesses and so on. I have a whole
1:06:35
book lined up for that in the future too. There's an interesting case,
1:06:41
for example, from nineteen eleven, a guy called Gus Avery who was found
1:06:48
one day by the police. I remember neighbors is standing in the middle of
1:06:55
a stream with his mother's shawl in his hands and covered in black. And
1:07:00
so they went up to him and said, what's going on, And he
1:07:03
took them back to the house and explained they found the mother. Her whole
1:07:08
body opened up like this, with her guts hanging out, sitting on a
1:07:12
chair. I imagine he'd slashed her body open with a broken bottle and said,
1:07:17
well, the thing is I've been receiving telepathic communication from the Martians who've
1:07:24
been flying over our house for quite some time, and they told me that
1:07:30
the only possible way for us to go into the sky with them and be
1:07:35
taken away on their airships to Mars is if I take the unborn child out
1:07:43
of my mother's womb. And so I did. He said. The trouble
1:07:47
was his mother was quite elderly, so you can imagine that she didn't have
1:07:51
any kind of unborn child in her womb, and he was obviously sent off
1:07:56
to a psychiatric hospital, and so on and so forth. So I mean
1:08:00
that, in a sense is contact. Heism't because he believed that he was
1:08:03
acting in accordance with the instructions given to him by martians floating over his house
1:08:09
in airships. But then we find exactly the same thing constantly, because I
1:08:14
knew we were going to talk about this subject. There's a fascinating book if
1:08:16
anyone ever sees a copy of this. It took me a while to get
1:08:19
one of my lost and a board another one, and it's called No One
1:08:23
May Ever Have the Same Knowledge Again, and its Letters to Mount Wilson Observatory
1:08:30
nineteen fifteen to nineteen thirty five. And you might think, all right,
1:08:35
letters to an Observatory, why do I care? But the very first chapter
1:08:40
in this book is that other letters from Alice May Williams to the Observatory written
1:08:48
around the year nineteen twenty, and she's talking about her constant contact with Martians
1:08:57
and their spaceships or aliens in general, about how she's constantly seeing them and
1:09:01
they visit her and everything. And we talked about the nineteen twenties contact tea,
1:09:08
and so when Arnold came along, to be honest, it was pretty
1:09:12
old hat that, you know, this idea of being in touch with the
1:09:15
aliens. And there's so many more cases that I'm going to bring out Alien
1:09:19
Artifacts two in a couple of months, Alien Untifax one. As I said,
1:09:24
it's done quite well and it's got the whole story in there, if
1:09:27
anyone's interested. I got a good title for that book that you're going to
1:09:32
write, and you can use it if you want, but you have to
1:09:36
pay me royalties. And I'm just joking, but I think that it is
1:09:40
a great title. Aliens made me do it, Okay, fair enough,
1:09:46
Yeah, yeah, Aliens made me do it. I mean I mean it
1:09:49
makes sense, right, I mean, that would be an amazing book.
1:09:54
Just the mental illness throughout the community is like is really staggering. It really
1:10:01
is. Do you think that with that gentleman that killed his mother to be
1:10:05
abducted by the aliens or going to the sky, do you think that that
1:10:10
was like an excuse, like some kind of wacky excuse. It was,
1:10:15
like you wouldn't. I think it was mercury poisoning. He was taking medicine
1:10:20
at the time. But what I do in this book that I'm trying to
1:10:26
write and will eventually I've got all the information, is that it doesn't really
1:10:30
matter what's behind it. The fact is, if you're having a hallucination about
1:10:34
anything, it must be because somewhere inside your brain you can visualize it.
1:10:43
You have some For example, if you have a hallucination of Virgin Mary,
1:10:47
it's because the Virgin Mary exists to you. You must have heard of the
1:10:51
Virgin Mary at some point, whether you believe in it or not. If
1:10:57
people and there were a lot of people hallucinating aliens, alien persecution, abduction,
1:11:03
people who said they just escaped from the aliens, and so on and
1:11:09
so forth, it's because by then, and we're talking about the eighteen sixties
1:11:14
onwards, people were already speculating about alien visitation. And we're talking about an
1:11:21
amazing cross section of society because a lot of the people who were sent to
1:11:27
hospital or even prison for being mad but being crazy were just like grossers and
1:11:34
housewives and whatever, which is fascinating. It's like a window into their inner
1:11:42
world and that's where the aliens are. You can take all of this and
1:11:47
interpret modern culture with it, or I mean, there's so much you can
1:11:53
do with this, which is one of the reasons why I haven't published it
1:11:56
yet because I just don't know where where to take it. Yeah, I
1:12:00
will, I will do something with it. I think I'm going to call
1:12:01
it Inner Voices or something, because I'm going to add other kinds of hallucinations.
1:12:06
There's lots of amazing things. A guy who goes to the doctors,
1:12:12
I think in nineteen ten around that time, saying that he just escaped from
1:12:17
I think the British Museum. He was actually a mummy. He said he'd
1:12:21
just come out of a sarcophagus. And so there's so much of it.
1:12:26
There's just so it's unbelievable how much of this do you think can be for
1:12:32
this subject with a mental illness factor? How much of this do you think
1:12:36
can be attributed to the drugs? I think a lot of it was because
1:12:42
okay, it's impossible to say a lot of it because there aren't enough records
1:12:46
to go on. Some of it would be because medicine at that time was
1:12:51
made of mercury and poonis and elements and sold to you as a kind of
1:12:58
snake oil or whatever you would take it. I imagine there was some drug
1:13:03
taking going on, and there were lots of people who truly suffered from mental
1:13:10
illnesses, so and no one knew what to do with that. And yeah,
1:13:15
but the fact is that if they were influenced in such a way to
1:13:19
believe that men from Jupiter were chasing them down the street with electric guns,
1:13:26
which is another one of the stories, it must be because they'd read about
1:13:30
it, heard about it, people talked about this kind of thing at the
1:13:33
time. So, yeah, Stanley, I'm going to be talking about human
1:13:40
and animal mutilation almost shown on Thursday with Walter Bosley and Trey Hudson, So
1:13:46
tune in for that one. Now, what I kind of meant by you
1:13:53
know, him just kind of making this up because we know that it's prevalent
1:13:58
with serial killers. They'll just make things up as an excuse to try and
1:14:02
get off on like an insanity plea. I mean, that's like a huge
1:14:08
thing that they've done for a really long time. Very few of them actually
1:14:12
get insanity. Please. But I was just curious if it could have been
1:14:19
murdered his mother and then he was like, oh, yeah, the aliens
1:14:23
made me do it. You know. It seems like something that in the
1:14:26
period when you could when you could suffer the death penalty for being insane too
1:14:30
or at least be locked up forever for being insane, that you wouldn't have
1:14:34
gone with I was insane. It wouldn't have helped. People were being locked
1:14:40
up and thrown into jail forever because they were insane. That makes sense.
1:14:44
And a lot of the insane asylums in the early nineties and in the mid
1:14:50
nineties, like you could just go and drop off your family member so one
1:14:56
of these insane asylums and be like, oh, she's crazy, and then
1:14:59
there we just take her. Yes, wild. Some of the entries I've
1:15:02
read, some of the entry logs, and some of the insane asylums previous
1:15:06
to seeing asylums in the United States, and some of them is like really
1:15:12
wacky. Like there was one dude that got put in in a scene asylum
1:15:15
for excessive masturbation. Okay, you know, it's just wild. It's just
1:15:25
wild stuff. You could basically just take a family member there and just drop
1:15:28
them off and make up some kind of nonsense and they would take them and
1:15:30
they probably never see him again, which I think is a really good way
1:15:34
for a lot of men just to get rid of their wives. Doctor Kellogg
1:15:40
invented corn flags to stop people from masturbating. So that's the Kellogg. Is
1:15:46
that true? M h. Young teenagers eating their their their corn flakes in
1:15:57
the morning. I don't think it had the impact that he expected it.
1:16:00
But anyway, Wow, all right, Chris, thanks so much for coming
1:16:04
on, brother. I really appreciate it. It was an amazing conversation.
1:16:08
Can you let people I'm gonna bring up your book one more time here so
1:16:14
people can get it. They can get it on Amazon Prime. Correct.
1:16:17
Yeah, it's a it's a fun book. If someone wants to steal it
1:16:21
by it, send it back to Amazon after reading it. I do not
1:16:25
care. I don't live. I don't. I don't make a living off
1:16:28
these things. Uh and yeah, it's it's a lot of fun, really
1:16:31
and it really challenges people to think a lot about this. If you're skeptical
1:16:39
about this, it's really good as a kind of as as ammunition and if
1:16:45
you if you believe in in Flying Source of Reality or UFO reality, it's
1:16:49
a really good test. I don't I don't deny UFOs exist as a concept,
1:16:56
but you need to know the facts behind all of this, and that's
1:17:00
what I'm working on. I'm trying to get all this out after so many
1:17:04
years of collecting it. That's the idea. And this particular book was fun.
1:17:09
I was given this plaque thing because this is the Spanish version. I
1:17:15
always do a Spanish version English version, and the reason is at the beginning
1:17:18
of the book and the introduction, I talk about a bar I walked into
1:17:24
called the Flying Sauces, all of Bloodios Orlantes in a town called Caddith,
1:17:29
which is by the sea, and in nineteen fifty fifty five there were two
1:17:35
rival groups during the carnivals. People still compete to this day with songs to
1:17:44
have the best songs and whatever the best costumes, and one of them was
1:17:47
called the Martians, and the other one was called the Beachipos Duluth or the
1:17:51
little light Bugs. And the light Bugs invented a song to mock the Martians
1:18:00
as saying, oh, these guys, they're in their flying Sources, flying
1:18:03
about all the time. And the bar was called the Flying Sources in their
1:18:08
honor. And what I thought was amazing was that just seven years, eight
1:18:15
years after a single man saw what he didn't even call himself flying Sources in
1:18:23
the middle of the United States, a tiny bar in a tiny town in
1:18:29
Spain so far away could have changed the name of their bar to correspond with
1:18:36
that sighting of that man. That was the massive impact that Flying Sources had,
1:18:41
which is why I mention it in the first chapter. And I went
1:18:44
there and they gave me a plaque and I did a little conference for them
1:18:46
and whatever. So yeah, there's a lot in this book actually, And
1:18:49
as I said, I think it's one of the first books that might change
1:18:56
an entry in the Oxford English Dictionary, which is a nice little and I
1:19:00
suppose really quick before I let you go, when did the name change from
1:19:06
Flying Saucer to UFO? I think it was about nineteen fifty six. Was
1:19:13
it around around that time, Yeah, the sort of mid fifties, And
1:19:18
simply because the military was using or the Air Force was using the term UFO.
1:19:26
It's not my specialization the nineteen fifties. It's take you back to the
1:19:30
eighteen fifties. I'll give you a story or two. But it was around
1:19:33
that time. And you know, the modern term UAP. You can actually
1:19:41
find it in the nineteen sixties and before too, in some documents and in
1:19:45
newspapers. So that's not exactly new either. I don't know these things that
1:19:49
have come into fashion and probably driven by politics and aimed to make things sound
1:19:59
more official or something well, and then also to kind of get rid of
1:20:06
anything that really happened in the past too, because if you change the name
1:20:11
then makes it difficulty to research anything that happened before the name change. It's
1:20:18
very I think that's what's going and it's also really interesting. I meant to
1:20:23
comment on this earlier, how the military kind of took over trap shooting from
1:20:30
the public before World War Two and then it kind of fell out of favor
1:20:34
within the public and the military was doing it, and then whenever it got
1:20:39
switched to you know, flying saucers, but in a different context than what
1:20:45
people claim that Arnold had saw. It kind of seems like a repeating thing
1:20:48
because now we have ufology and in the grips of pretty much the military in
1:20:58
the intelligence community, it's like they've taken it back over again, if that
1:21:04
makes sense. Yeah, it's a repeating thing what I'm writing now, because
1:21:11
I'm about to publish the letters of Charles Fort in a separate book probably next
1:21:15
week if I can, if I can, and one of his letters is
1:21:20
intesting you know, Charles Ford wrote some amazing things in the in the nineteen
1:21:25
twenties. People are not aware at all, even if they've read his books
1:21:30
of the kind of things that he was saying. One of the things that
1:21:34
he believed was that humans were sort of kept alive as an energy source for
1:21:42
the aliens, and that's why they didn't land on Earth openly, which is
1:21:46
so matris. It's just amazing. It's the matrix. It's it's NEOs were
1:21:54
kept alive as energy sources. But there is a point, and that's that's
1:21:58
in the book that Wishing. But there's a point in which he says that
1:22:01
he feels that at any moment something's going to happen, something's coming that's going
1:22:06
to change our perspective, you know, and when we'll we'll realize that our
1:22:13
friends brothers in space are there and so on. And that feeling that something's
1:22:18
about to happen has existed throughout euthology. In the nineteen seventies with Donald Keyhole,
1:22:27
and before nineteen seventies, the idea that the government's about to release something,
1:22:31
it never does nineteen eighties exactly the same. Right now, it's the
1:22:35
same that government's about to release something. We're about to enter a new age.
1:22:41
And one thing that I wrote, what I write in this book when
1:22:45
I'm commenting on the letters, is that, well, the first news article
1:22:50
that I have about this feeling that something's going to change and we're going to
1:22:56
be in contact with the aliens, published in eighteen eighty three, it says
1:23:01
something like imminently, which is what they say today. And then in eighteen
1:23:05
ninety five it's written in a newspaper someone report saying, look, I'm sure
1:23:13
that in the next ten years the Mutians are going to land openly in the
1:23:17
in their airships, and that'll bring in a new age eighteen ninety five,
1:23:24
and people are still saying the same thing one hundred years later and as early
1:23:28
as as recently as this morning. You know that's right, and it never
1:23:32
happens, and it's never going to happen based off paste off of the past.
1:23:40
Yeah, that's uh, that's it's wild. Your research is unbelievable.
1:23:45
You're putting a lot of things together without just outright saying it. You're you're,
1:23:50
you're, well, I know what you're you know the reason why you're
1:23:55
doing that because you don't want to just enfranchise a whole group of people about
1:24:00
I understand what you're saying, and yeah, that's right, you don't want
1:24:05
to alienate them. But yeah, my friend, it was great talking with
1:24:09
you. I really appreciate your time this evening. Always a fascinating conversation.
1:24:13
We'd love to have you back on anytime. Is there any other place that
1:24:15
you would like to direct people to other than to purchase your book on Amazon?
1:24:21
And social Media's you like people to check out or anything? No,
1:24:27
I don't. I don't do anything on social media really. I just send
1:24:30
some stupid joke every now and again on Facebook. The show people, I'm
1:24:32
still alive, and that is absolutely all I do. I don't do interviews
1:24:36
generally speaking. I like talking to you, that's nice, but yeah,
1:24:42
I don't. I sort of don't do very much. I don't. I
1:24:45
don't. I don't need, I don't feel the need, and I don't
1:24:47
live off this. It's not something I try to make money on. I
1:24:49
just want people to see, you know, what's what the truth is behind
1:24:55
this, or at least what the facts are. You know. It's there's
1:24:59
so much information out there, that's the thing. So this year I'm going
1:25:04
to publish Charles Fort's Letters, which people are going to like pretty amazing stuff
1:25:11
in there. I'm going to do a definitive guide to how the ancient astronaut
1:25:16
theory was invented two hundred and one years ago. I'm going to publish a
1:25:21
series of books called Incredible Stories, full of forteen tales of mystery and whatever,
1:25:28
which are going to be quite interesting with my notes and comments in them
1:25:30
and that kind of thing. And I've also got another book coming out about
1:25:36
one of the first landing closing counter things from eighteen sixty eight in Australia.
1:25:44
I want to get that out soon. I've got lots of things going on.
1:25:46
So yeah, well, I would love to have you back on anytime,
1:25:51
anytime you come home with something new, because I think it's important for
1:25:56
people to get a refresher ones because there's new people coming in all the time,
1:26:01
and it's always nice to, you know, talk about these things,
1:26:04
because, like you said, it's important for people to know the history of
1:26:10
this stuff, because I feel like the history is just completely looked over and
1:26:15
people just regurgitate what they hear from one person saying to the next person,
1:26:19
and then it becomes a part of their reality and a part of their belief
1:26:24
structure. When you look back at a lot of this stuff, it's a
1:26:28
lot of fairy tales and a lot of nonsense, and a lot of things
1:26:31
that have been just been compounded upon and regurgitated based off of previous people,
1:26:38
as you have broughten up several times during this show. But thanks so much,
1:26:44
Chris, really appreciate your time. Love to have you back on anytime
1:26:45
in the future. Whenever your next book comes out, We'll grab a copy
1:26:49
of that and read it because and I recommend anybody to check out his book,
1:26:56
Saucers Tracing the Origins of this shaped UFOs really worth it, and it
1:27:01
gives you a detailed history of even goes back into like ancient times and what
1:27:09
people were seeing back then in the sky. It's an incredible research piece.
1:27:14
I highly recommend it, and thanks to everyone for being here. Good to
1:27:16
see you, Nina, Susie, Lynn, Jim got here late. Brother.
1:27:24
It's okay. We're getting ready to close out right now, but go
1:27:27
back and rewatch, Sam, Good to see you, Stanley and everyone else
1:27:30
that contributed to the chat that I did not get the shout up. Please
1:27:33
be sure to hit the thumbs up button to help the channel on the algorithm
1:27:36
share subscribe, hit the bell icon as well for notifications. All right,
1:27:40
see you guys next time. Chris, stay with me, brother,