Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Murder of Betty Shanks

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The Murder of Betty Shanks · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: On the night of September nineteenth, nineteen fifty two, a
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: twenty year old woman stepped off the tram in Brisbane
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: and began her short walk home that she had taken
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: countless times before. It was a familiar route through a
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: quiet suburb where nothing about the evening felt unusual. However,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: she never arrived home, and by morning, Brisbane would wake
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: to a crime that shattered its sense of safety and
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: became the longest running unsolved murder in Queensland's history. This
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: is the tragic and true story of Betty Shanks.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: and Grim, a.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: True crime podcast.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Warning.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: The following podcast and material intended for a mature audience.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised. Cheers, it is almost Christmas.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Cheers, Cheers to Christmas eve.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Eve, Christmas eve Eve. Indeed, I don't know about anyone else,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: but I have consumed far more calories in the last
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: few days than I have in the last previous few months.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Honestly, my belly already kind of hurts. So that's uh,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: that's you know what that means?
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Tis the season to start thinking about going to the
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: gym in about a week. You know.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Well even the other day, wasn't I just like, Oh,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: just don't even worry about it, just eat it, ben Like,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: because you were like, gosh, I've eaten so much today.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes you got to do that. Sometimes you
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: got to worry about your health. But this is not
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: the season to really concern yourself with calories.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: This is the season of just enjoying.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I was planning for us to have salad for lunch,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: so there you go.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: If I'll have room for salad.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I know we'll probably be eating cookies and stuff and
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: that will be our lunch.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: That's pretty much how Christmas generally goes. Oh I'm going
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: to plan a good meal, but I'm too full to
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: have that good meal because of all the junk in between.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: But it is kind of nice just the visiting too,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: and stuff right, and lots of times with the visiting
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: comes like drinks and food.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: And true, well, like last night we had a good
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: dinner with some friends, for example, with some good drinks
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: and food. This morning we had a good friends dot
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: buy and he said he hadn't had a drink yet today,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: so we had a drink with them.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: You had a drink. I didn't have a drink. Well
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: to say, I was like, it's not even noon.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Bro, Well, and it was whiskey. You're not a whiskey person,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: So very long. Yeah, but yeah, it's a good time
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: of year.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: It is. But I also have a very interesting story
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: for you today.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: It seems as though you do.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: It's not really a Christmas case, per se. I was
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: thinking about doing a Christmas one, but this one kind
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: of came on my radar and I really liked it.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: And I've got a good reason on why I'm doing
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: it this time of year, and we'll talk about that.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Don't worry.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Well, some people might be like, f Christmas, right and
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: be totally fine with that.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: It is thrown in our face this season, that's.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: True, and not everyone celebrates it. So I totally get it.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: But I digress. This is still a story that I
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: really thought, you know, it was appropriate. Let's say that.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: So well, before we dive in, we should thank our patrons.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, of course, So these people have been supporting us
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: over on Patreon. They signed up this week along with
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: many other people, and big shout out to a let
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Nikki Bell, Penya Sherry, Stutz, Shaston Kasheal, and Ava Armstrong.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: So thank you very much for signing up and supporting
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: us over on Patreon.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: We appreciate you.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: We seriously do. We got a lot of cool people
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: who have joined that community over there, so seriously, thank
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: you very much.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Reads a lot, and we have one more little tiny announcement.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: To make we do you want to do the honors?
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Just basically that we have this episode out today, we
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: will not be having Fridays out, just kind of a
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: little bit of you know, rest, relaxation time, and we'll
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: be back on the following Tuesday.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, so we are taking one day off, so there
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: will not be an episode on Friday, which is I
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: believe Boxing day, and then we're back the following week
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: on the Tuesday again.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's not too much time away from us.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: So no, it's just one episode that we're taking some
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: relaxing time to enjoy the holiday.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: And people are probably also busy right now anyway, and
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: they're most likely and that's fair.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Probably they probably understand they're probably not even gonna be
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: listening to this until like a month later when they've
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: caught up on all their to dos in their life
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: and busyness, things start to slow. But I think if
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: you're ready, I'm ready to get into the story.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Let's do it.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to set the scene here. On most nights,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Thomas Street was barely worth noticing. It was the kind
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: of suburban road people walked without thinking, lined with modest
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: homes and shaded by trees that stood well longer than
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: those houses themselves. In nineteen fifty two, this part of Brisbane,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: the capital of Queensland, Australia. It's settled. Early after dark,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: the street fell quiet, except for the occasional city tram
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: in the distance, or the sound of a radio drifting
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: through an open window. People felt very safe here, safe
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: enough to leave doors unlocked, safe enough to assume that,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: you know, raised voices were nothing more than kids fooling around,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: or maybe a small late night argument that would burn
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: itself out, you know, nothing anything dangerous. But that Friday night, well,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: something was different. Yes, the air was warm, and the
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: week was ending, and families were in fact settling in.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: There was a tram line that reached its final stop nearby,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: emptying its passengers into the streets, the ones that they
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: knew by heart. On their walks home. Most of them
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: would be home, in fact, within minutes, and no one
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: standing on Thomas Street that evening could have guessed that
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: something irreversible was about to happen. There were no warnings,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: no signs of a threat waiting in the dark, just
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: a familiar walk, a familiar route, and a sense of
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: see that would not survive the night, because by morning
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: the street and its city would no longer feel the same.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: And before, honestly, this fateful day, and before she became
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: the name attached to Queenland's most oldest cold case, well,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Betty Shanks was just a young woman getting on with
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: her life. Betty was twenty two years old in September
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: of nineteen fifty two, living with her parents and younger
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: brother in Brisbanes, Inner North. She had grown up in
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: the area and while she never really left it, there
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: was no dramatic reason for that. It was simply where
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: her life was. Home was safe, familiar, and close to
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: everything she needed. She was bright, driven and quietly ambitious.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Betty had graduated from the University of Queensland with a
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Bachelor of Arts specializing in psychology, which was not common
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: for women of that time.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: It really wasn't so good for her.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're talking the fifties here and she's going to
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: post secondaries. So awesome, incredible. Now she worked as a
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: trainee personnel officer for the Commonwealth Department of the Interior
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: in Brisbane, CBD, a solid government job that she took
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: very seriously. Friends and coworkers described her as very intelligent,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: kind and dependable, someone who showed up, did her work
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: and didn't seek attention for it. Betty was not the
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: reckless kind of person. She wasn't impulsive, She didn't drink heavy,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: she didn't stay out late for no reason, and didn't
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: bounce from relationship to relationship. In fact, as far as
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: anyone close to her new, she wasn't even seeing anyone
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  Speaker 1: at all. She kept a very small circle of friends,
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  Speaker 1: mostly other women, and spent much of her time studying, working,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: or at home with her family. If something was troubling her,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: she certainly didn't broadcast it. Now. Just a few months earlier,
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  Speaker 1: Betty had experienced a very rare stroke of luck. In
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: April of nineteen fifty two, she won three thousand pounds
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: as Australia was still using the British style currency system,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: and she won this in the Golden Casket lottery, which
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: exchange and inflation considered, that's about the equivalent of roughly
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: a quarter million US dollars today.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Holy shit.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so she got some bank she scored, baked us,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: she did, and so it made newspapers and her name
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: was printed in bold black letters. You know, all of it.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: But the wind didn't exactly change her personality. In fact,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: it didn't really change her at all. She actually used
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: the money quite responsibly, paying off her parents' mortgage, helping
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: renovate the family home, and covering medical treatments she needed
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: for a spinal condition. There was no flashy purchases and
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: no sudden lifestyle shift. By all accounts, Betty was content. Busy, yes,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: but she's happy and settling into her life now. Brisbane
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  Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty two mirrored the same quiet sense of order.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: It was often described as a big country town, the
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: kind of place where people slept with their windows open,
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  Speaker 1: doors unlocked, and children walked home alone after dark without
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  Speaker 1: a second thought. Violent crime was rare, and strangers attacking
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: people were almost unheard of. If someone screamed in the night,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: for example, the assumption wasn't that it was danger, it
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: was probably teenagers fooling around, or a small domestic argument
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  Speaker 1: that would eventually and harmlessly resolve itself. Friday, September nineteenth
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  Speaker 1: and nineteen fifty two began no differently than any other
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: weekday in Betty's life. That morning, she left her family's
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  Speaker 1: home in Grange and headed into the city for work,
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  Speaker 1: just as she always did. Her job with the Commonwealth
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Department of the Interior kept her busy during the day.
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  Speaker 1: By all accounts, nothing about that Friday stood out now
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: because it was Friday. Betty had night classes after work
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: that was part of her ongoing studies and professional development.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: So Wednesday and Friday's nights those were dedicated to lectures
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: and they were part of her normal routine, something she
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: committed to week after week, and she took them quite seriously.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: So when the workday ended, Betty didn't rush home. Instead,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: she and her supervisor, John Doocey drove together from the
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: CBD to the location of the class. Now it was
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: near George Street and so that's where they were going.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: The lecture, well, it wrapped up just before nine pm.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Several students were in attendance, along with the lecturer, Edwin
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Millicaton now Millicaton lived in a direction that was partially
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: overlapping with Betty's route home, so on some evenings he
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: would offer to give her a lift, and that's what
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: happened that night after class. He drove her towards Windsor
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: dropped her off at a tram stop along Lutwich Road.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: From there she boarded the four to thirty four tram
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: bound for granch Now. The ride itself was uneventful. Other
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: passengers came and went as a tram moved through the
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: North suburbs, eventually reaching the final stop at the day's
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: road terminus. The clock read just after nine thirty pm.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: When the tram doors opened, Betty stepped down onto Thomas Street.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: In fact, a friend, Jane Osborne, saw her at that
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: very moment as she was leaning forward slightly about to
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: step off that tram onto the pavement. Was small, rather
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: forgettable detail at the time, but ultimately it would later
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: become the last confirmed sighting of Betty Shanks alive.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: A moment in time that you take so for granted
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: that you have no idea that's going to be the
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: last time you see an.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Individual right just in passing.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Oh and it's just so often I mean, right, someone
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: gets I don't know what exactly happens here, but they're
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: going to have that last moment that someone just doesn't realize.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Well, there's always a last moment. There's a last everything,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: I guess, so you just never know. So I'm not
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: going to get all like sappy on us. Yeah, I'm
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: just going to leave it at that. Now, from the terminus,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Betty walked home and it was honestly quite a short walk.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Less than four hundred meters is all she had to travel,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: just a few minutes at most. She had walked it
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: countless times before, at all hours, without any sort of incident.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: The street was quiet, residential and lined with houses and
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: shaded by trees. Nothing about it was really threatening. But
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: she never arrived home. She never made it. Now. What
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: makes the Betty Shank story so unsettling is the small
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: window of time. Investigators would later determine this took place
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: somewhere between nine thirty eight pm and nine fifty three pm,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: just twelve minutes. In that brief span, a young woman
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: stepped off the tram. She would then encounter someone on
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: a quiet residential street and was brutally attacked less than
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: a block from the safety of her home. The timeline
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: begins to tighten almost immediately after Betty leaves the tram
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: as well, just after nine thirty pm. Several residents in
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: the area later told police that they actually heard screams
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: coming from Thomas Street. They weren't vague noises or distant shouts.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: They were described as very sharp, panicked, or unmistakably human.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: The screams were heard between nine thirty eight and nine
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: forty pm. Now at the time, no one rushed outside.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: This was Gronge in the early nineteen fifties, a place
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: where violent crimes just weren't existing. Some residents yeah glancedale
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: their windows, but they saw nothing unusual in the darkness
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: and return to what they were doing. Others assumed the
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: noise was just teenagers or who knows what, so no
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: one called police. Those few minutes would haunt the suburb
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: for decades. Now. By the early hours of Saturday morning,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Betty's parents would awake and be very worried with Betty
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: not being home. She was never careless about coming home,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: and by one thirty am her father reported her missing
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: to the police. Officers began checking nearby tramlines and school grounds,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: assuming that she'd missed her stop or needed help getting
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: back home for some reason. It was just after five
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: thirty am as daylight began to creep into the quiet
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: streets of Grange. Alec Stewart, an off duty police officer,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: stepped outside of his home onto the corner of Cranberry
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and Thomas Street to collect the morning newspaper, and what
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: he saw stopped him in his tracks. It was his
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: neighbor's front garden. Just there, sitting inside the fence line
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: of missus Hill's property, lay the body of a young woman.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: She was found laying on her back. Her clothes were disheveled,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Her blouse had been pulled open and its buttons torn away,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: and her underwear had been removed. The position of her
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: body and the condition of her clothes made it immediately
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: clear that something violent had taken place. In fact, blood
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: was present at the scene. There was bloody handprints that
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: were visible on the fence railing nearby, Oh my Goodness,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: which indicated the attacker had been in contact, specifically with
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: the property. Her handbag laid close as well, its contents
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: scattered across the garden, though nothing of valuable. Nothing appeared
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: to be missing that was worth anything a tram ticket.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: In fact, the one that she used to ride that
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: tram that night was still clutched in her hand. The
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: injuries were severe and consistent with an extreme physical assault,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: and for Constable Alex Stewart, the man who found her,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: the meaning of the scene was unmistakable. This was not
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: an accident. This was clearly a homicide.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Well, no shit, yeah, And it is surprising to me
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: that it just happened right in like the open of people,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: like a neighborhood, pretty much right in.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: The middle of a street manicured lawn there I'm picturing.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this is correct, but in my
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: mind I picture like a little white picket fence with
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: like bloody handprints on it and a body sprawled in
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: some flowers.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Like, how the shit does that even happen?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So, within minutes, the street began to fill with
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: police officers as he called the authorities, the garden was
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: cordoned off as a crime scene, and the neighbors emerged
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: from their houses, confused, then horrified as words spread that
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: a woman had been murdered only meters from where they slept.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: When identification was made, the shock deepened the victim was
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: in fact Betty Shanks, the local girl known in the
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: area who was reported missing only hours ago. Well. She
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: was now found dead less than four hundred meters from
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: her family's door. Her tram ticket, as I mentioned, still
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: grasped in her hands, and evidence suggests that the attacker
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: well had thrown her over the fence. Her body landed
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: just meters from the bedroom where Constable Stuart had been
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: sleeping hours before. As officers examined the scene, the reality
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: set in this had happened quickly, violently, and under the
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: cover of darkness, and when reconstructed, Betty's movements, while one
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: detail of them, stood out immediately. She was clearly attacked
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: incredibly close to home, and that distance from the tram
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: terminus to her home was short enough that she should
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: have been inside within minutes. Yet the screams came from
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: a point only two or three minutes walk from where
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: she got off the tram. Now that discrepancy raised an
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: unsettling question. Why hadn't Betty gone straight home? Because from
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the time that she got off the tram station to
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: when the screams had occurred, she should already been in
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: her front door.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: But she wasn't well. I mean, A, she could have
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: ran into someone that she knew and was chit chatting
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: or something, and b whatever, she felt like someone was
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: following her, so she like in a kind of flurry,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: took like the wrong way or something to get rid
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: of this person.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: You're already thinking exactly like the officers.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Were, Okay, exactly, maybe I should be an officer.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe maybe you should have a little bit of
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: a career switch here. I might be looking for a
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: new co host soon, I guess, as Nichole's going to
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: be solving murders instead of talking about them. Anyways, an
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: interesting thing happened here too. Her wristwatch provided a very
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: crucial detail for this timeline. It was found that her
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: watch had stopped at nine fifty three PM, and a
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: watchmaker would later confirm the stoppage was consistent with a
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: sudden violent impact. So that gave police that window of
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: time between the screams at around nine thirty nine and
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: the watch stopping at nine point fifty three. Police believed
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the higher attack unfolded, but something delayed her after she
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: stepped off that trap. Whether it was, like you said,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: a conversation, maybe a confrontation or encounter she didn't anticipate.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: We don't know, but Betty did not immediately begin her
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: walk home, and that pause, whatever caused it, placed her
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Now it
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: was clear, simply by looking at Betty's body that she
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: had been subject to extreme violence in a very short
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: span of time. I'm pretty sure we can all have
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: this bit of an image of what we see her like,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: and it's not a pretty picture. Her injuries told a
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: story of sustained, frenzied aggression rather than a single blow
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: or momentary loss of control. In fact, her injuries were
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: quite extensive. Her jaw was fractured. One of her teeth
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: had been dislodged with such force that it was later
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: found several meters away from her body. Her face showed
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: a heavy trauma, her tongue and mouth were badly injured,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: and investigators concluded that she'd been struck and kicked repeatedly.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: In fact, dark smudges of black boot polish were on
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: her face and legs, which means the attacker's shoes had
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: connected with those spots. As police believed she was kicked
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: while she was on the ground.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Whoa which actually means this person was a disgusting, disgusting human.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a douche canoe for sure. Holy Now, two large,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: bloodstained handprints were found on the top rail of a
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: fence boarding the garden. The position of the prince suggested
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: that Betty had been thrown or pushed over the fence,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: and that her attacker used it as support for his
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: weight as he followed or leaned over. From the size
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: of the prince, detectives believed the attacker was a physically
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: large man. Now, despite the violence, robbery was quickly ruled out.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I mentioned that Betty's handbag was found nearby with its
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: contents scattered, but nothing was stolen. Her jewelry, for example,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: was even still in her body. There was no sign
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: that money or valuables had been taken.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Whatsoever, Okay, because I was wondering that she just won
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: the lottery, right.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: So that's true, But didn't seem like anyone stole anything, Okay. Now,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: her clothing complicated this picture. Her blouse had been torn
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: open buttons ripped away. Her bra strap was in fact broken,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: and her underwear had been removed and it lay near
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: her body. At first glance, it appeared to be a
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: very sexually motivated attack, but the post mortem told a
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: different story because there was no evidence left behind that
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: proved Betty had been raped or sexually assaulted, so investigators
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: began to suspect that the undressing may have happened after
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: the attack, either as a failed attempt at sexual assault
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: and the perpetrator had to get out of there before
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: you know, doing whatever he was going to do, or
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: potentially as a deliberate act to mislead police.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I'm still just shocked though that no one
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: heard any of this.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: People did hear screams, okay.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: But I guess it just wasn't like alarming enough.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, something they heard the screams, assumed it was, you know,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: just maybe a couple people fighting and they'll get over it,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: or kids playing. This sort of stuff didn't happen here.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Oh crazy, So their mind just didn't even go there.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, their mind didn't go that it was actually anything.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Dangerous, which is really freaking sad.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: It is now. Ultimately, strangulation was determined to be Betty's
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: cause of death, and by mid morning on September twentieth,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two, the news about it was everywhere everyone
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: seemed to be talking about a young woman who had
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: been murdered in Grange, beaten and strangled in the middle
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: of a quiet suburban street, and for Brisbane. While this
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: was uncharted territory police response while it escalated almost immediately,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: every available detective was pulled into this case. A special
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: communications room was set up inside the Criminal Investigation Branch
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: and officers worked in shifts around the clock. Hotels, laundries,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: trash bins, public toilets. They were all searched for blood
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: stained clothes that had been discarded. Hundreds of homes had
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: officers knocking on the doors, and thousands of men. They
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: were all questioned to be potential leads and suspects, but
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: there wasn't a whole lot to go on. This was
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: the largest criminal investigation Queensland had ever launched, and the
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: pressure was intense. It came from everywhere. The public well,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: they wanted answers, the media, they wanted a suspect, and
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: police knew that if they didn't move fast, the trail
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: on this case could go cold. Very soon. Newspapers ran
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: dramatic headlines. They branded the unknown killer as a sex
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: maniac and flooding the city with speculation, every rumor was printed,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: every theory was debated, and Brisbane, a city used to
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: be quiet and filled with routines with predictable nights, well
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: now it was suddenly gripped by fear. People began locking
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: their doors for the first time. Windows that had always
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: been left open were now shut tight. Parents worn daughters
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: not to walk alone at night, and women altered their roots,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: avoided trams after dark and stayed home if they could.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: For investigators working the case, nothing about Betty made sense
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: as a target of a violent crime. She wasn't known
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: to take risks. She didn't drink, didn't frequent dangerous places,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: didn't keep questionable company. She went to work, attended her
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: night classes, went home. That was her routine. There was
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: nothing about her that suggested she would find violence like this.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: So investigators started where they always do, to those closest
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: to the victim and digging into their life. They spoke
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: at length with Betty's parents, her brother, her friends and coworkers.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: They combed through her days leading up to the murder,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: looking for anything that was out of place, whether it
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: was arguments or acquaintances, secret relationships, financial issues, anything that
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: could explain why someone would wait for her in the
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: dark street then attack her with such violence, but nothing emerged.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Betty had no known enemies, she didn't have a relationship,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: and according to her closest friends, she hadn't even dated
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: anyone in a year leading up to her death. And
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: if she was troubled by something, well she hadn't shared it.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: That made one detail impossible to ignore. Whoever attacked her
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: either knew her movements extremely well or encountered her simply
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: by chance and acted quickly.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Huh, there just doesn't seem like there is like enough
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: information here. I mean, I'm sure the police may have more, obviously,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: but she just seemed like the most pear innocent, lovely person,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: right and basically and that something terrible happened to her,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: and there isn't really anything no like trail. So I don't.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Well, Well, if this case were to happen today, I
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: think it would go a lot different. Being that this
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: is in the fifties.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Things of fingerprints or whatever, right, that makes it a
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: lot tough, or even like cameras right on people's houses and.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: So sure, so it's a shame to say that. I
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: think this case is a byproduct of its time. That's
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: very fair, now, investigators. They also struggled with the location
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: of the attack. Betty was assaulted and killed only minutes
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: from her home. We know that it was in a
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: street that she knew very well. This was huge because
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: it suggested either confidence that the attack on the attacker's
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: part or familiarity with the area. Possibly as well, because
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: a stranger passing through would have taken a very significant
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: risk attacking someone so close to houses. That's not normal
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: attacking behavior.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: No, not at all, So.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: This person likely knew the area. Then there was the
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: question of timing. Why did Betty not walk straight home
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: after leaving the tram. The screams were heard too late
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: for her to have stepped off and immediately been attacked
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: at the spot where her body was found. By then,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: she should have already made it home, so something had
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: clearly delayed her. Police also believed the attack happened quickly
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: and with enough force to silence Betty before she could
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: attract sustained attention. The screams heard suggested panic, but they
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: weren't very long.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, it was just like a quick yeah kind
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: of thing and then silence exactly.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: So all of this helped narrow the location of the
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: initial confrontation, it likely occurred near the tram terminal itself
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: or along the early stretch of Thomas Street before Betty
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: reached the final leg of her walk home. The attacker
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: would have already been close to her before things turned violent,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: and that realization brought investigators back to one troubling idea
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: someone may have been waiting now. In the days following
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: the murder, several witnesses came forward with accounts that all
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: pointed to the same unsettling detail. A man was seen
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: loitering near the Grange tram terminal that very night. Witnesses
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: described him as being tall, close to six feet, with
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: a solid build and a round face. He was well groomed,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: neatly dressed, and wearing a light brown, double breasted suit.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: He wasn't drunk, he wasn't loud or belligerent. He wasn't
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: trying to speak to anyone. Instead, he just paced back
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: and forth near the terminus, appearing restless, as though waiting
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: for someone or something. In fact, in the later inquest,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: witnesses would eventually give formal statements describing this man's appearance
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: and movements. Their accounts were consistent enough that police believed
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: they were all describing the same individual, and investigators became
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: convinced that this man mattered to this story. The timing
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: lined up all too well.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Betty stepped off the tram just after nine thirty pm,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: and the screams were heard less than ten minutes later,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: So if someone had been waiting at the terminus, it
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: would explain why Betty didn't immediately head home. Then another
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: report surfaced. Roughly forty seven minutes after Betty's wristwatch had stopped,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: a taxi driver picked up a man less than three
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: kilometers from the crime scene. The man reportedly had blood
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: on his face and clothing. He appeared agitated and gave
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: no clear explanation for his condition. Now police believed this
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: passenger could be the same man seen earlier at the terminus.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: The only problem was no one could identify him.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Well, that definitely makes sense, but it also really doesn't,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: because who the hell is this guy? Well?
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: What makes sense and what doesn't? What do you mean exactly?
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: It makes sense that there was someone odd hanging around, Okay, yeah,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: and then you know, however, much time afterwards, someone he
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: got picked up with like blood on.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Him forty seven minutes.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so n three kilometers or whatever her away, so
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: it must then it makes sense that this would be
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: like the same person.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: It does. So if you have an individual hanging around
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: an area, then someone getting killed in that area, then
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: someone's seen leaving that area with blood on them. It
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: seems to all add.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Up, and it's well, I'm just thinking, like, it's really
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: too bad. But I mean, even nowadays, someone could potentially
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: well no, I think taxis probably have cameras of sorts
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: in them, recording, so yeah, he probably wouldn't be able
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: to get away with it so much. But I was
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: just thinking someone nowadays get picked up, pays with cash
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: or whatever. Then you know, maybe they could get away
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: with this, but probably not either.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Hard to say.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Hmm, oh my gosh, Okay, this doesn't make any sense.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Who the hell is this guy?
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Now? For weeks after the murder, detectives worked under the
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: assumption that Betty Shanks had been attacked by a stranger,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: someone who didn't know her, someone who wore a brown
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: suit and saw an opportunity and acted without warning. But
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: then during the aforementioned inquest in February of nineteen fifty three,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: a detail merged that quietly unsettled that theory. Betty's supervisor,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: John Doocy, testified that two days before her death, Betty
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: had received a telephone call at work, one that visibly
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: upset her.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, here we go.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: According to John, the call came from an unknown male,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: but he didn't know what he said, only that when
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Betty put the phone down, she was shaken, noticeably different
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: from her usual calm, focused self quote. She was not
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: her normal self after that call end quote. This was
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: the first time investigators actually heard anything suggesting that Betty
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: may have been unsettled before the night she died. Up
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: until then, everything seemed aokay, her typical routine and happiness.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Police immediately tried to reconstruct that call, who placed it,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: where it came from, whether it was threatening, familiar, or
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: simply unwanted, But in nineteen fifty two, tracing phone calls
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: was limited at best. There was no recordings or call
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: her ID or any sort of reliable way to identify
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: the voice on the other end of the line. All
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: detectives could confirm was that this call had happened, and
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: then it had affected her.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: The revelation forced police to consider a new possibility that
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: someone may have been thinking about Betty before that Friday night,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: that someone who knew her name and felt entitled enough
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: to contact her directly may have been watching her. That
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: didn't mean Betty knew her killer, though, but it did
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: raise the possibility that the attack wasn't entirely random.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm just sitting here thinking too that maybe she
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: was into something that no one knew of, or something
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: a little bit dangerous of sorts.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: But how what she's at work, she's at school, then
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: she's at home.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Well, someone knew to call her, right, so knew her
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: and wasn't happy with her, So how would she have
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: made them unhappy?
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: But people can be unhe with you for reasons that
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: you do not have control over. Just because you pissed
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: someone off doesn't mean you did something to piss them off.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Just my existence pisses some people off.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: I know that that's very true.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I guess maybe her winning the lottery, maybe her being
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: a woman going to post secondary in an era like this, she.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Might have taken an opportunity from a man someone believed right, or.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe someone had an infactuation with her, or maybe it
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: was a colleague who was threatened by her. We don't know.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: There's many possibilities that she had no control over that
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: she did not go out of her way to construct
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: that could have resulted in this scenario.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Hm hmmm, okay, Yeah, if only you could just know
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: what was said on that line, Hey, it would make
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of things easier.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, as time went on, investigators did all they
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: could to try and put all the pieces of the
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: puzzle together. They went through all the details and evidence
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: they could, and you have to try and find a breakthrough.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: And among all the things recorded at the crime scene,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: one detail did continue to stand out to them, and
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: in fact, it almost was mocking the police because no
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: one could explain why this detail was there. You see,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: on Betty Shank's forehead, they found a strange pattern imprint.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a bruise or a cut or a scrape.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Investigators described it as a distinct, dotted or textured mark,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: like likely pressed into the skin during the attack. It
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: was photographed, it was measured and noted repeatedly in reports.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: But it was a problem because the mark didn't match.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: It didn't match the fence, it didn't match the ground,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: It didn't clearly resemble a hand, fist or piece of
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: debris or anything whatever caused it had come into forceful
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: contact with Betty's forehead during the assault, likely while she
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: was being overpowered, and left this imprint so early on,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: some detectives thought it might be meaningless. You know, injuries
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: and violent struggles can can occur in unexpected ways from
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: unexpected sources, maybe a rock pressed into her head a
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: certain weird way, for example. But journalists who saw the photos, well,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: they weren't convinced. One of them was Ken Blanche, a
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: veteran crime reporter who'd been among the first at the
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: scene in nineteen fifty two. Ken believed that the imprint
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: resembled the pattern left by a military canvas gator, the
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: type of protective leg covering worn by soldiers at the time,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: with straps over the lower leg and over the boot.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: It was a very compelling idea. During that time, the
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Korean War was underway and Brisbane was full of servicemen
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: and soldiers in uniform who were you know, it was
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: a very common sight on trams, streets and pubs. If
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: that mark came from a gator, it suggested the attacker
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily just strong, but potentially could have had military
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: training to boot, but not everyone agreed with this theory.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Other investigators pointed out that the pattern wasn't an exact match. Similar, yes,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: but not identical. Print could have come from a boot's soul,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: or a textured object pressing down during the chaos of
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: the attack, or something no one had thought to compare
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: it to. Still, the mark refused to fade from this case.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: It appeared in newspaper articles, resurface during the inquest, It
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: lingered in police files long after any sort of leads
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: dried up, and over time it became less about what
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: it proved and more about what it might suggest military involvement,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: a uniformed attacker, someone accustomed to violence, or just another
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: coincidence that investigators desperately wanted to mean something. As the
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: weeks turned into months and then into years, the murder
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: of Betty Shanks began to attract something investigators dreaded almost
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: as much as silence. False confessions. Men started coming forward
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: claiming responsibility for the crime. Some were local, others were
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: from interstate areas, and a few were already in custody
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: for unrelated offenses. Several confessed late in life offering death
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: bed admissions that promised closure, Yet every single one of
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: them fell apart under scrutiny. Some couldn't place themselves in
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Brisbane at the time. Others described details that didn't match
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: the crime scene. A few even admitted that they had
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: fabricated their story after reading newspaper articles or hearing radio broadcasts.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: In some cases, police concluded that men were seeking attention.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: In others, they believed that the confessions came from people
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: struggling with mental illness or guilt over unrelated acts, or
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: perhaps a desire to attach themselves to a notorious crime.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: But by the end of the first decade, at least
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: seven men had formally confessed to killing Betty Shanks, and
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: none of them were linked or charged.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Oh that is so many. That is just so bizarre
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: to me, people who are admitting to crimes that they
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: do not commit. I mean, I get like the mental health,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: I guess, or they want the popularity, But what a
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: waste of resources and time and.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Just yeah, each one of these confessions is it's draining time, energy,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: and honestly momentum from a potential investigation that could actually
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: solve it. Absolutely because they have to go check alibis, interviews, witnesses,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: all this, re examine physical evidence. There's so much that
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: goes through this and it really hinders the case.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Well, and I don't know too if the family is
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: made aware of this too, and then they're they're thinking
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: like the killer's caught when really they're not.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's bad to say that.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: If that's the case, that is like devastating to them.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: And all the while the real trails growing colder. Now.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Tips did come in, but few of them led anywhere,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: and as time passed with no arrests, the investigation entered
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: a new phase, with physical evidence exhausted and witnesses offering
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: no new information that's actually legitimate. Detectives were forced to
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: confront a very difficult reality. They still did not understand
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: why Betty Shanks had been attacked, and one of the
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: first theories to gain traction was mistaken identity. Police learned
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: that a local doctor's receptionist regularly walked the same streets
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: at a similar time of night and carried keys to
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: where many drugs were stored. Investigators considered the possibility that
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: someone had been waiting for her and attacked Betty instead
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: by accident. The idea explained the apparent ambush the precise timing,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: but there was no evidence that the receptionists had been targeted,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: nor any proof that the killer knew her schedule, so
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: it didn't really go anywhere. Another theory emerged after a
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: local doctor died by suicide just two days after Betty
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: was murdered. The timing raised eyebrows and fueled public speculation,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: and rumors spread that he may have known Betty or
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: harbored unwonted feelings towards her for a brief period. Some
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: believed guilt had driven him to take his own life,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: but police again found no link between the doctor and Betty.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: No witnesses placed him in Graange that night, no evidence
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: tied him to the crime. He was eventually ruled out,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: though the rumor lingered for years now, the military connection
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: was something that remained a very persistent undercurrent in this case.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: The unusual patterned imprint on Betty's forehead led some investigators
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: and journalists to suggest it may have been caused by
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: a military gaiter or equipment worn by soldiers. With Brisbane
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: hosting the large number of servicemen during the Korean War,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: the theory seemed very plausible. However, no soldier was ever identified,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: and no military record produced a suspect who could be
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: placed at the scene. But most of all, that taxi
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: driver who reported picking up a well dressed man with
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: blood in his face and clothing less than an hour
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: after Betty's watch had stopped. This remained the largest piece
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: in the story, and it's less a theory and more
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: a loose end which honestly could fall under any one
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: of the previous theories. The pick up occurred a short
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: distance from the murder scene, and police believed this man
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: was likely the same individual witness seen pacing the Grannge
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Tramp terminal earlier that night, but his identity well never
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: confirmed and never found. And with each theory accounting for
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: part of the time timeline, but they all each failed
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: to explain the whole picture. There's no single narrative that
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: seemed to fit every known fact, and as years passed,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: while theories multiplied while certainty dwindled, for nearly half a century,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: the murder of Betty Shanks existed as a very cold case.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: But then in the late nineteen nineties, that silence was
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: broken by a claim so personal and disturbing that it
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: reignited public interest almost overnight. In nineteen ninety nine, a
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: woman named Dishe Birtles came forward with an allegation that
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: stunned investigators and the public alike. See. She claimed that
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: her father, Eric Sterry, was responsible for Betty's murder. Eric
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: just So happened to be a former soldier and worked
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: as a locksmith for the Queensland government. According to Ditsch,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: he had become obsessed with Betty after changing the locks
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: at her parents' home. He believed he developed a very
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: romantic feeling towards her, feelings that well were not returned.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: In her account, rejection triggered a very violent response. Deets
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: described her father as an extremely violent man. She said
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: she had endured years of abuse at his hands, which
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: included frequent beatings and sexual assault. She told police that
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: his violence was unpredictable, that he could shift from calm
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: to enraged without warning, and that she lived in constant
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: fear throughout her childhood. She also claimed that on the
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: night that Betty was murdered, her father had returned home late,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: behaving strangely, and according to her, he later burned his
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: clothes and ordered her to clean his shoes. Carefully paying
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: particular attention to the grooves along the souls. Now, at
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: the time she was young, didn't understand why, but years
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: later she believed what she was cleaning was blood from
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: his shoes.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that is ridiculously suspicious.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Now Dish also said that her father kept a photograph
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: of Betty Shanks in a family photo album, and he
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: had done so for decades, with words written on the
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: back that read, quote Betty Thompson Shanks murdered nineteen fifty
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: two end quote.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: She believed he kept it as a very personal reminder,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: or perhaps even a trophy, of the crime that he committed.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Now his backstory, Eric's backstory it raised further red flags.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: His military medical records described him as suffering from severe anxiety,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: impulsive behavior, blackouts, and violent tendencies. Two psychiatrists, in fact,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: had assessed him as potentially psychotic and dangerous. Not to mention,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: he even had a documented history of domestic violence, including
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: police call outs earlier in nineteen fifty two. Now Dish
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: also claimed she tried to tell police about this year's
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: earlier in when she was just sixteen, she reported her
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: father's abuse and told officers she feared he would kill
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: her the same way he had killed Betty Shanks, and
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: according to her, she was simply dismissed. She attempted again
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: in the early nineteen nineties, encouraged by a counselor, but
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: received little follow up. By the time her story actually
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: became public, Eric Sterry had already been dead for two years.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Police reviewed her claims but ultimately concluded there was nothing
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: they could verify. Potential witnesses were gone, physical evidence was
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: decades old, and any opportunity to question Eric directly had
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: passed since well, he's now dead. Officials and the public's
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: reaction to all of this was quite divided. Some believe
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: that Detch was finally naming the killer, but others questioned
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: whether memory, trauma and the time had blurred the truth.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: All we know is without proof though that this case well,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: it just simply couldn't move forward regardless. By the early
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: two thousands, the murder of Betty Shanks was no longer
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: just a cold case. It was part of Queensland's history.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Generations of detectives had come and gone, each inheriting the
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: same box of evidence, the same unanswered questions, and the
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: same narrow window of time in which everything had gone wrong,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: But what had changed was science. Advances in forensic technology
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: gave investigators something Earlier detectives never had the possibility that
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: microscopic traces left behind in nineteen fifty two might actually
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: still hold answers. Hair, skin, cells, blood, things that were
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: once invisible or unusable could now, in theory, identify a killer.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Cold case teams reviewed the evidence again, this time through
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: modern lens. Items you know had once been cataloged and
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: set aside were now being reexamined. Photographs were studied with
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: higher resolution. Old witness statements were re read with fresh eyes,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: looking for inconsistencies or overlooked details, and there was renewed
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: focus on the idea that Betty had fought back to now.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: She had been wearing silk gloves that night, which made
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: it very difficult to land any sort of defensive retaliation,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: but investigators believe it was still possible she could have
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: scratched or grabbed her attacker during the struggle, and if
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: she did, even briefly, there was a chance she took
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: something with her some hair, some skin under her fingernails,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: a smear of blood not her own. The challenge, however,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: it was still time. Evidence handling in nineteen fifty two
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: was not what it was today. DNA was not preserved
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: intentionally because no one knew it would matter. Some items
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: were lost, others were contaminated, some simply degraded beyond usefulness.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Even when testing was possible, while results often came back inconclusive,
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: police also revisited old persons of interest. Some had already died,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: others could no longer be located. In at least one case,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: DNA comparisons were attempted decades later, but ruled out suspects
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: rather than identifying anyone. Despite these obstacles, investigators never fully
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: closed the door on Betty's case. Queensland Police have repeatedly
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: stated that Betty shanks murder remains an active cold case.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: The fifty thousand dollars reward they put out still stands,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: and authorities continue to believe that someone somewhere knows what happened,
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: or know something something small that could finally tip this
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: case forward. More than seventy years have passed and the
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: murder case of Betty Shanks is still ongoing. Yet no
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: one has ever been able to say with certainty why
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Betty was attacked that night she was not robbed, she
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: was not sexually assaulted. For all we know, she was
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: not known to be in a relationship, nor did she
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: have any enemies. Nothing in her routine suggested risk, and
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: yet within minutes of stepping off that tram, she was
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: fighting for her life. The question of whether Betty was
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: targeted or simply crossed paths with the wrong person at
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: the wrong moment it remains unknown. The mysterious phone call
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: due days earlier. While it lingers as one of the
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: most unsettling details in the case, it is the only
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: confirmed disruption to Betty's otherwise steady, predictable life. Then there's
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: the man in the brown suit. Multiple witnesses saw him
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: pacing at the tram terminus that night, and a taxi
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: driver too later described picking up a bloodied man not
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: far from the scene of the crime. Police believe they're
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: the same person, but despite appeals, reconstructions, and decades of speculation,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: we still do not know the identity of that man.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Every single unanswered question we have circles back to the
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: same narrow time span, the twelve minutes between nine thirty
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: eight and nine fifty three PM on an otherwise ordinary
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Friday night. But regardless of what we don't know, it's
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: important to remember what we do know. Betty Shanks was
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: twenty two years old. She was intelligent, ambitious, and deeply
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: connected to her family. She had completed a university degree
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: at a time when higher education for women was still
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: so rare, and she was steadily carving out a career
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: in the public service. She lived at home, not out
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: of necessity but practicality, saving money, helping her parents, and
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: planning for a future that was still unfolding. Those who
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: knew her described her as kind, generous, and dependable. She
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: enjoyed going to the cinema, studying, and spending time with friends.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: She had goals, she had momentum, and nothing about her
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: life suggested that she was nearing an abrupt end. In
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: the months before her death, Betty used her lottery winnings
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: not for extravagance but for her own family. She paid
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: off the mortgage of her parents home, she helped improve
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: the house that she grew up in, and she invested
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: in her own health. It was a quiet generosity that
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: reflected who she was, thoughtful, grounded, and forward looking. Everything
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: about who she was as a kind person is what
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: this season of Christmas is actually about now. This story
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: doesn't actually have anything to do with Christmas through the holidays,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: but I did want to tell this story of Betty
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Shank today because she embodies so much of what people
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: lose sight of in today's age. Betty, in all honesty,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: can teach each and every single one of us something,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: and in honor of her, I think it would be
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: nice if we try and learn from her to be
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: a bit kinder, to be a little less greedy, and
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: to better ourselves, not because it's required, but because we
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: want to. And the world could be a little better
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: because of it. For Betty's family, in there loss, there
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: was no trial or conviction. Her parents lived out the
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: rest of their lives without knowing who killed their daughter
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: or why. And for investigators, the case remains unfinished. The
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: reward still stands, the file is still open, and until
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: something changes in the case, Betty Shanks is remembered not
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: just as a victim of one of Queensland's oldest and
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: most unsolved murders in history, but instead also as a
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: young woman whose life mattered and still does. Her story
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: endures because it asks something of us, not as investigators,
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: but as people. It asks us to slow down, look
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: beyond ourselves, and to choose generosity over excess, kindness over convenience,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: and empathy over indifference, not because it's the season that
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: demands it, but because people like Betty lived that way
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: quietly anyways, without any applause, at a time of year
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: meant for reflection. Her life reminds us that small acts
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: of kindness and care matter, that how we treat others,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: even when no one is watching, leaves a mark far
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: more lasting than anything anyone can buy or accumulate. Somewhere,
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: the truth of those twelve minutes still exist. But even
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: before that truth may ever be found, the name Betty
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Shanks still brightens the world, even though her own light
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: has gone out. And that's the story of Betty Shanks.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Well, shit, Ben, what that's like about to make me cry? Huh?
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm obsessed with Betty, Like I love her.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: She's our badass of the day. For sure. She was
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: a very inspiring individual. She was very caring, went above
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: and beyond when she didn't have to, and she was
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: taken away far too by an absolute monster in the dark.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah at twenty two years old. Yeah, that is just
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: such a young life, and I just fricking hate saying this,
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: but I feel like, seventy years later, like what are
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: they going to find? Or you know, like it, Like
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: you had said earlier, if this had happened today, it
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: would be far easier probably to go about trying to
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: solve this. But the fact that it happened in nineteen
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: fifty two is no help.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Well, we can say that about almost any case, any
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: older case is going to be easier to solve today
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: if it happened today rather than you know, fifty, seventy,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: eighty whatever years ago. But when you look at it
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: and you say, Okay, if only we had that knowledge
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: back then, because we have a bloody handprint, you know,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: we have impressions from boots or things like that. If
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: only we knew not even to do the testing, but
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: to preserve it properly, that could make all the difference.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: And it's unfortunate that in this case so far, nothing's
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: been preserved or done well enough to find who did
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: it today.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's so long ago. The theories. Okay, at first,
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: when you were like this was a mistaken identity kind
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: of thing, I was like, oh my gosh, that makes
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: so much sense. But then there is that phone call,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: right that is, if there wasn't that phone call, I
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: feel like that would it would just be like, yeah,
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: like really just shitty, wrong place, the wrong time kind
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: of thing.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: But what if that phone call was maybe it was
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: her dad, Maybe they had a fight earlier that day,
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: the dad phoned at work. I just got to say,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: you know what, you pissed me off when you did this,
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: and it upset Betty.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it could have been really nothing.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: It could have been And then you know what, maybe
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: the dad forgot about it or whoever, and when they
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: talked about this phone call and inquired about it, the
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: dad doesn't remember calling her. And it could be a
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: mistaken identity in the phone call. Maybe it's even a
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: wrong number, or maybe it's someone who's calling the company,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: not Betty and going off just so happens to be
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Betty that they ended up getting on the line with.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe it wasn't a targeted phone call after all.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, gosh. But also the person that had her picture
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: in a photo album is very alarming.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a feeling that was the dude. There
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: is a lot that lines up there.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: And it's like, if only you'd listen to this daughter
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty then, or even early or ninebers or whatever,
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: while he was still alive. I mean something, maybe at
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: that point he would have been like, yeah, that was me.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Potentially, probably not, but maybe who knows.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: But anyway, enough about all these these ridiculous men that
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: decided to friggin dim her life far too early. The
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: story is about her and how awesome she is.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: So yeah, she's our badass of the day one hundred
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: and ten percent. I think we could all be a
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: little bit more like Betty.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: No kidding, Well, yeah, the fact that she won all
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: this like who wins that kind of money and it
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: almost goes unnoticeable, really, you know when you do things
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: like pay off your your parents' mortgage. Because she could
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: have just went and gone and bought her own house.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: That's true, very easily, right, So it's just like, holy crap,
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: she just and she made other people's lives be more
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: affected than her own with this money, which is saying
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: a lot that's true.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: So yeah, anyways, sorry for throwing an unsolved case that
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: you hear just before Christmas.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: And very Christmas to us.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: When I was telling Nicole before we turn the MIC's
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: on that I was doing an unsolved case. She's like, oh,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: thanks for the Christmas present, throwing me an unsolved case.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: I was like, gee, but there's a reason I want
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: to talk about Betty for a reason. She deserves it.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: So yeah, we'll forgive you eventually, Ben eventually.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Well, as a reminder, we're not gonna be throwing out
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: an episode this Friday, so we'll see you guys in
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: a week's time next Tuesday. In the meantime, hopefully you
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: guys have a great Christmas holiday. If you don't celebrate
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: any of that, you know what, I just hope you,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: hope you have a week I hope you're doing great,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: and we'll see you in a week's time and until
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: Then, stay wicked.