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Fast Fashion · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we Do what we do. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why We Do what we Do. I am your
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Hot and Trending host Abraham.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: And I am your Project Runway host Shane Nice.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: that humans and non human animals do, and sometimes we
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: talk about I guess the endeavors we engage upon which
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: have global implications.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: And today is that weird intersection of capitalism and fashion.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: That is the joys of fast fashion, your sines, your
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: team moves, all the things that are gonna come up.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about how we got here, what it is,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: and all the things that may be a problem with it.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Also some benefits. Don't worry, we're gonna talk about benefits too.
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  Speaker 2: We're gonna have an unbiased approach to this, completely.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Biased, but it will it will have nuance though.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04
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  Speaker 1: knew you'd be here because we were a product. Is
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  Speaker 1: just that good?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 1: We gamified it, We got you in, sucked you into
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  Speaker 1: And if you're listening to this on the day that
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  Speaker 1: it publishes, well, then it is September third, and it
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: is appropriate to acknowledge to you, dear listener, happy Global
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Talent Acquisition Day. I M sure you are celebrating in
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: your own way.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously. Yeah. The best way to celebrate is to
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: go into your LinkedIn and respond to all those people
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  Speaker 2: who are trying to recruit you and sending you that
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  Speaker 2: that copy and paste message in your end messages. Correct,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: it is National Skyscraper Day. Huh.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, those are the things. It is National Welsh rare
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  Speaker 1: Bit Day. I don't know what that means, but maybe
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  Speaker 1: Welsh people do.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know that anybody knows that means. Okay, it
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  Speaker 2: is Penny press Day.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, I think the penny's going away, so we'll see.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It is International Enthusiasm Week. We sounded enthusiastic, so stoked,
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  Speaker 1: so stoked.
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  Speaker 2: It is National Childhood Injury Prevention Week. Great, so make
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  Speaker 2: sure those kids don't scrape their knees.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, did that thing? Yeah, or get otherwise and even
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  Speaker 1: more seriously injured.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And you can help that by feeding them appropriately because
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  Speaker 1: it is National Nutrition Week.
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  Speaker 2: It certainly is. And you can prevent injuries by paying
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: for care and whatnot and education. And you do that
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: because you get paid through payroll, which is something we're
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: gonna celebrate on National Payroll Week. There's a long way
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: to just say like, hey, we're getting paid.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, possibly the opposite of that. It is play Days,
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  Speaker 1: it certainly is. It's also Self University Week, which I
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  Speaker 1: just got my honor APHD today. Yeah, you call that
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Autodidact week maybe, yeah, unclear. It is Hispanic Heritage Month.
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  Speaker 2: It is It's also National Honey Month.
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  Speaker 1: It is National Spinal Cord Injury Awareness Month. Spinal cord
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  Speaker 1: injuries are.
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  Speaker 2: Bad, bad, yeah, real bad. And it is also National
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Suicide Prevention Month, so make sure you reach out to
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  Speaker 2: your folks and take care of them and get resources
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  Speaker 2: for folks who need it.
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  Speaker 1: I believe the new number for that is nine eight eight,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm a double check just to make sure. Yeah, yes,
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  Speaker 1: it is nine eight eight in the United States. If
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  Speaker 1: you're not in the United States, go look up whatever
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  Speaker 1: the suicide Prevention hotline is and call that.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, all right.
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  Speaker 1: So those are holidays because it's September third, and that
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  Speaker 1: means that we can talk about holidays. But we're actually
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  Speaker 1: here to talk about another topic, which, as we mentioned
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  Speaker 1: at the start of this, has to do with the
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  Speaker 1: stuff that we put on our body. And I'm not
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  Speaker 1: talking about other people or sense or anything right now.
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  Speaker 1: We're talking specifically about the clothing that we put on
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  Speaker 1: our body and how it gets there. And we look
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  Speaker 1: around the world and the state of things as it
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  Speaker 1: is right now, not just about fashion, but we just
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: look around and see what's going on, and we might
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: sort of wonder how we got here, imagine and think
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: back reflect on how different the world was only fifty
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  Speaker 1: years ago. And I mean granted that like a lot
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  Speaker 1: of people listening, I know that the age ranges fifty
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: is like at the top of where most of our
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: listeners are, if anyone's even in that bracket, right, And
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: that's like when you were born, so you might not
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: remember that, but like just understanding what was going on
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: in the world fifty years ago, like we can appreciate
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  Speaker 1: what that was in the nineteen sixties and seventies, sure,
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  Speaker 1: and how different of a world it was for people
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  Speaker 1: back then. I actually think, if I remember correctly, it
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: is about since the nineteen sixties that the world population
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  Speaker 1: has doubled. Like that's of all of human history. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: like tens of thousands of years that there have been humans,
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  Speaker 1: the population doubled, and I think the last fifty or
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  Speaker 1: sixty years, if I'm wrong, it's within the last century.
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  Speaker 1: So like, yeah, it's very very recent that that kind
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  Speaker 1: of growth has happened. Anyway, we look at very different
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  Speaker 1: worlds than things were fifty years ago and kind of
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: wonder like how did we get here? And also should
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: we be here? There was a twenty twenty five hipsos
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: or ipsos and on how to say It poll that
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: was the survey people, and this is across thirty one
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  Speaker 1: countries and found that the majority of people, it was
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: around two thirds of people that they surveyed think that
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: their country is on the wrong track, indicating that there's
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  Speaker 1: sort of like a broad sense or experience of things
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  Speaker 1: in the world's just not going very well.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, things are wrong, and that's kind of the general
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  Speaker 2: the general sentiment for for lots of folks. But there
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: are a lot of factors that have contributed to the
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  Speaker 2: profound changes that we feel endemic to who we are
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  Speaker 2: now and have people feeling concerned about the future. There's
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  Speaker 2: lots of factors, you know, besides the fact that we
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  Speaker 2: just have all the information that we could possibly have
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  Speaker 2: at our fingertips and all the things that go along
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  Speaker 2: with that, there's lots of other things, right. Some of
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  Speaker 2: those factors are economic instability, the ever widening gap between
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  Speaker 2: the richest and poorest people, correct, politicians controlling the narrative
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: about the state of the world. US, the United States,
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  Speaker 2: specifically the United States government. Sorry, it's like it's got
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: something except in my throat sounds like it and the
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: rapidly burgeoning climate crisis that is threatening global stability across
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  Speaker 2: every imaginable topic. This surprise, this episode is doom and gloom.
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  Speaker 1: Kind of is it? Kind of is now? Capitalism is
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  Speaker 1: kind of the great fire that brings all of these
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  Speaker 1: issues to the boil. And one of the great pots
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  Speaker 1: stirring unholy demon spawn of capitalism is fast fashion. That is,
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  Speaker 1: fast fashion is one of the variables that contributes to
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  Speaker 1: most and conceivably in some way or another, all of
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: these topics. And I'll concede that, as I mentioned at
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  Speaker 1: the top of this, this is the kind of dramatic
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  Speaker 1: and bias position to take on this right off the bat.
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  Speaker 1: And we will bring more nuance to this discussion later
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  Speaker 1: in the conversation, but just to acknowledge what we're coming
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  Speaker 1: from on here, like, obviously we have a certain value
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  Speaker 1: as it pertains to human life and well being in
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  Speaker 1: the future of our species and the habitability of this planet. Sure,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: and we see that one of the culprit driving the
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  Speaker 1: despair and problems and suffering among humans is the system
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  Speaker 1: that we've created called capitalism. But I also will humbly
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  Speaker 1: accept the accuracy of the argument that capitalist apologist makes
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  Speaker 1: that capitalism has led to the development of technologies and
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  Speaker 1: medicines that have dramatically increased the length and quality of
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  Speaker 1: human lives. Was that the only way to get there?
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  Speaker 1: I doubt it, but it was how we got there.
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  Speaker 1: So it's worth I think accepting that if we're going
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  Speaker 1: to talk about this, and we want to try and
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  Speaker 1: do so in a scientific manner, that we need to
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  Speaker 1: consider that, Like, there are always multiple sides to every issue,
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  Speaker 1: in every story, in every situation, and this is one.
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  Speaker 1: And like, I think that we see that one of
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  Speaker 1: the driving factors of human suffering is capitalism, and it
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  Speaker 1: has also relieved human sufferings in many ways. So it
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  Speaker 1: is a complex, wicked problem that we can't just change. Like,
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  Speaker 1: we're not going to get rid of it. So understanding, like,
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  Speaker 1: how do we leverage what we've got here, what is
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  Speaker 1: the role that it plays, and what can we be
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  Speaker 1: doing somewhat differently? Yeah, but yes, out of that we
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  Speaker 1: get fast fashion, which exists because of it, and that
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  Speaker 1: comes with it a whole new set of problems.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's talk about that. So, although coined in
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  Speaker 2: the nineteen hundreds, specifically nineteen nineties, this cool, this term
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  Speaker 2: has starting to receive much more attention in the recent years.
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  Speaker 2: So fast fashion refers to cheaply produced and cheaply priced
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  Speaker 2: clothing that copies the current trends of fashion industry catwalks
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  Speaker 2: and makes them available to consumers within weeks or even
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  Speaker 2: days in some cases after their debut. It's an idea
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  Speaker 2: essentially to sell low quality clothes that are quickly discarded
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  Speaker 2: or replaced. And it's all about quantity over quality. And
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: I want to say too, like I'm going to I
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: want to kind of put a caveat at the top
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  Speaker 2: of this, and I want to say that, as a
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  Speaker 2: human being that exists on this planet, the one thing
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  Speaker 2: that I cannot stand on any level is fashion. Do
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: not like fashion, do not care about it. I understand
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: that it's some people's bag, right like people love it.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: There's an artistic part of this. I cannot stand it.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: It is something that like, for some reason, gets under
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  Speaker 2: my skin. So so as we go through this that
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: I just want to make sure that my bias is
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: clear that I hate all of this, let alone fast fashion.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: You and I are pretty aligned on that, and I
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: can also again I'll accept I think what I see
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: as the counter argument that people will point out, like
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: we are also choosing the clothes that we wear and
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: feeling like good and happy about the things that we
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: have chosen to wear, which for us, I think usually
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: is a band's T shirt, sure, and like a comfortable
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: pair of jeans or shorts and then some sandals. But
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: that was created by the fashion industry. So like we
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: still use and have and find some joy in the
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: output of this. But I do think that the where
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: you and I align on this probably has a lot
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: to do with the bourgeois. Yeah, it's the elitism that's
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: created by this. It's the like it's the better than
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: it's the I.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Love adaptable clothes, I love the I love accessibility in
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: the fashion space. I love when people are able to
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: do that and create clothing that people can choose and
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  Speaker 2: wear and express. I think that part of the fashion
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: culture is amazing. I think I do realize that it's
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: just the elitism and the high like the you know,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: it costs five thousand dollars for a purse, like get
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: the here, what are we doing? Like that's absurd?
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like because it has a logo on it,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: it's like still cheaply made not that high quality of
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: a product, but like it has a logo on it,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: and you can therefore charge a lot more for us.
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  Speaker 2: So I think our problem is capitalism.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: What a beautiful time to segue to an ad. You know,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: we usually try and like sneak in a sort of
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: quippi segue to like rag on them, and instead what
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: we find is that in this particular topic, it just
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: really created the space. It was just like there, it
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: is like put an ad here.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so natural, it was so natural, you know.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: All right, well let's get back on topic here. So
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: in nineteen nineties, this is what we're talking about sort
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: of really the rise of fast fashion here. So clothing
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: stored Zara, which I believe is a Spanish clothing store,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: but it is all over the place. They had a mission.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: This is I think in their mission statement, though it
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: didn't actually double check this, it's said in the articles
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: I was reading about this that it was their mission
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: to specifically get garments from the design and like the
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: stage to clothing stores within fifteen days a two week turnaround.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Where you know, this is something that people put time
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: and effort into designing for these sort of fashion seasons.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: As you will, and that then that design ends up
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: on clothing store shelves in a mass produced way. And
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the New York Times does get credit for coining the
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: term fast fashion to describe this production process. That's even
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: been expanded to like ultra fast fashion and as we'll
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: talk about later, slow fashion. But that's sort of the
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: idea here is is it started with Zara and this
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: mission to like get clothing garments from fashion design and
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: presentation to like in your hands within fifteen days, so
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: just a two week turnaround.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. So when we talk about fast fashion,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: there are a couple features that I think are important
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: to discuss. First, it's that we're talking about inexpensive clothing items.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: They're easily accessible as far as purchasing for those clothing
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: items goes, so like you can find them and access
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: them really easily. Items that are or replicate those worn
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: by celebrities and fashion models. So it's kind of like, oh,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: you saw this on a celebrity. By the way, you
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: can get this look for much cheaper here. Also, you
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: saw it last night here. It is today, huge variety
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: of designs, colors and looks and design changes rapidly as
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: often as about a week at a time, so you're
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: gonna get new, emerging, really rapid changeovers in fashion designs
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: that are available to you.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as a describement, before you used to have like
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: sort of fashion seasons. You'd have like a spring catalog
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: and a summer catalog and a fall catalog. And with
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: fast fashion they essentially industried or engineered in destroyed is
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: a really good compound word. Now that I want to
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: start using the engineered essentially fifty two micro seasons where
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: you get like a design of the week, and then
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: next week you get a new one, and then we
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: get any one in just a very high paced grind
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: on this the system. So anyway, those are some of
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: the features of fast fashion. If you've seen a clothing
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: item on like social media and then on someone, let's say,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: and then there's an ad to purchase that item, you're
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: probably participating in the fast fashion model. And while you're
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: at it, you may as well throw a few more
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: things in the cart as you're shopping. And this business
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: model is kind of in line with the general idea
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: of fast fashion in many cases because you think of
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: like I think any online retailer is going to kind
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: of push this where it's like you're here for this,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: but oh, by the way, check out this other thing,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: and you're like, I might as well just have the
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: under the order be bundled together with all the stuff
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: that I want, which is I think how shopping more
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: broadly works, but that's very common in the fast fashion space,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: is just to push as many different things on you
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: as they can at a pretty discounted price.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: A sort of related concept here too is this idea
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: of planned obsolescence, and it's probably worth us doing a
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: dive into that. Other podcasts have talked about this and
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: done a really good job, but you're here listening to us,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: so presumably you maybe want to hear our take on that.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Anyway, planned obs lescence is kind of related to this
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: idea of fast fashion, less inherently than in some of
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: the other models that do depend on plant obs lescence.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: And in case you're hearing that word over and over
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: again and being like, what are you talking about, it
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: just means that things are designed to break down or
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: need to be replaced quickly. Yeah, that's planned obs lescence.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Also, those elements that we listened we're talking about inexpensive clothes,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: they're really easy to get. They replicate the ones that
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: you see on celebrities. These are elements that you might
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: recognize as fast fashion, but there are a lot of
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: other characteristics of fast fashion that you don't necessarily see
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: as part of the process that we'll go ahead and
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: get into right now.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's talk a little bit of history. So,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: in an interview with experts in business people in the
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: field of fashion published by University of Pennsylvania, one of
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: the guests points out that in nineteen oh one, the
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: beginning of the nineteen hundred, American families on average spent
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: about fourteen percent of their income on clothing every year.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: By nineteen twenty nine, an average American woman had nine
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: outfits in their closet, and as of a few years ago,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: the average American woman owned one hundred and three pieces
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: of clothing, according to a company called Closet Made. And
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: this feels pretty low. I mean, like, and I'll speak
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: for myself because you mentioned the band T shirt thing.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I love a good T shirt.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Here, I am like my hypocrisy coming out talking about
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: hating fashion but loving T shirts. Right, So, like, I
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: probably have like sixty T shirts. I would like that say,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: like easily myself. The one hundred and three, I was like,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: that feels like a low number. I'm like, I'm pretty
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: like and it says pieces of clothing. I'm like, even
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: if I care if I count like a pair of
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: socks where there's two things as one piece of clothing,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm pretty confident I have over one hundred
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: and three of these, And like my collection of clothing
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: is a tiny, tiny, molecular size drop in the ocean
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: sized bucket next to my partner's collection of clothes. Yes, yeah,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: because like my wife has quite a few articles of
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: clothing that are like very like they vary in lots
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: of different ways. Like I'm like, I need like three
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: button up T shirts, like not button up T shirts,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: like button up shirts, dress shirts for yeah, maybe presenting
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: at a conference. The rest of my clothing and T shirts,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: underwear of shorts, and maybe some work out gear.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that's it. Is Like I've got a few
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: different pairs of shoes for different occasions. I've got like
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: work shoes and then sandals and hiking shoes and exercise shoes,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: and then I've got you know, different socks, quite a
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: few band t shirts and then work tire like clothing
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: and shorts. And but I'm like, I'm fairly confident that
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I've got over one hundred and three Yeah, so yeah,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: yeah exactly. I never feel like I feel like the
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: number has got to be actually much higher usually and
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: maybe maybe we are unique, but I kind of doubt it.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so maybe that's what we do. So right in, folks,
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: write in and tell us how many pieces of clothing
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: you have?
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, I like this very good.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: It's out them for I want an accurate number. We're
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: gonna grab it.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we need an accurate inventory. We will be auditing
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: your count. So okay, we're digging into the history here.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: As we said, Zara was singled out as employing the
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: fast fashion business model and maybe one of the earliest
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: versions of implementation of this, but they are definitely not alone.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: So fast fashion has essentially two major ways that it exists.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: You have your brick and mortar stores, and you have
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: your entirely or almost entirely online stores. And most brick
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: and mortar stores, matter of fact, all of them as
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: far as I know, also have shopping online available, but
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: they don't necessarily depend on it the way that the
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: online stores like that Direct Circle space do their business.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: So anyway, so in case you were wondering, if you're like, what,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: who is doing fast fashion? Am I shopping there? The
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: answer is probably so. You have the brick and mortar
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: retail chains such as H and M Forever twenty one.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I never heard of this one, and I'm not sure
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: how to say it, but it's either you say the
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: letters or it's pronounced u li kilo clo. I guess
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: unique low unique clow that sure, let's call it that
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: you and iql o. Probably people are hearing this being
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: like you dummies, that's like the most profitable thing. I've
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: never heard of it.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: It's not our thing.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: It's not our thing.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: It's not our thing.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Primark, Urban Outfitters and Mango. So those are sort of
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the brick and mortar retail spaces that operate in fast fashion,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: and then there are the gigantic online retailers that also
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: play this game. This includes and I did look up
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: the prounciation on this. It's called Sheian. That's how you
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: actually say it, timu lulu and a sauce. I think
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: how you say that one. So these are the sort
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: of online retailers where they exist primarily online. There are
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: some that have like a store here and there, Like
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: there's actually some stores that are owned by Amazon where
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: you can like purchase Amazon items from those stores. But like,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: for all intents and purposes, Amazon is an online only store, sure,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: and that essentially the case with these ones that are
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: either primarily or entirely online.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they probably like pull from certain manufacturers or they
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: have their own manufacturing and stuff like that. So there's
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: it's lots of meta contingencies, baby, Yeah, Like it's a
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: lot of interlocking contingencies. Y'all don't even know. So let's
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: hear about numbers though, because I think that like we
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: know that these things exist, but we don't really have
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: the scope or breadth of what's going on. Right. So,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: from two thousand and three twenty fourteen, so in eleven years,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: clothing production doubled and the per capita number of garments
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: purchased increased by sixty percent, and estimated three hundred million
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: people are involved in some part of the process from
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: design to production to shipping to sales. Three hundred million
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: people in this industry. It's a lot of people that
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of so many people that's like at.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Least as many as RFK Junior is going to kill
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: with his terrible policies.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I on one hundred percent, absolutely, like that's the lowest
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: bar for what he's aiming for. Now. Around twenty six
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: to forty percent of consumers in the UK and respectively
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: shopped at fast fashion retailers in twenty twenty three, so
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: twenty six percent in the UK forty percent in the
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: United States. In twenty twenty three, fast fashion was estimated
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: to be worth a whopping one point seven trillion dollars
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: as an industry, one point seven trillion dollars one point
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: seven trillion trillion with a t yeh okay. For perspective,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: the US military spending budget, specifically line defense, is about
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: nine hundred and ninety seven billion dollars in twenty twenty four,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: more than most other countries put together. We already know
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: military spending in the United States is kind of like
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: an absurd astronomical amount, and fast fashion is worth more
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: than the US military spending.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, over seven hundred billion dollars more. Yes, yes, that's
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: so many zeros. That's so many zeros. Like that amount
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: of money is crazy and really difficult to wrap your
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: head around, right, I mean you think about like let's
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: just say, you're like, well, it's only about a trillion
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: to one point seven million. I'm like, hold, hold on,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: I want to pause for a second. Imagine that extra
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: seven hundred billion dollars went to you. Would you feel
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: like that wasn't very much or would you feel like
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: that was maybe a lot?
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Like that's the kind of numbers where like, even if
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: you spent six hundred billion dollars, you'd still have one
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars less. Right, there is nothing you couldn't
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: buy with that amount of money. Yeah, so like, yeah,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: that amount of money could solve like the world's problems
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: if it was invested in those things instead of this.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Particular industry, instead of clothing.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So but yeah, like that's that's where we find ourselves,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: is like, that is where money is being spent and
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: on ads marketing. All right, So we just threw a
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: lot of numbers at you. There, numbers that are hard
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: to wrap our heads around, but suffice it to say,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: this is a a collaws sol a colossal industry. Yes,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: is fast fashion.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: It absolutely is now, one could argue, and the retail
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: giants who definitely have vested interest in influencing your opinion
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: about this. Will agree about this argument. The fast fashion
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: has made clothing more accessible to a wide range of people.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: That is to say, people with little money are more
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: able to be able to afford more clothing, and in
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: doing so, they can participate in the minimum societal pressures
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: for expectations around appearance. One could also argue that the
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: economic problems created by these retailers, and the fact that
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: their clothes are cheaply made and need to be replaced
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: more frequently, have actually become part of the reason for
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: people to find themselves impoverished in the first place. So
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: there is kind of a you know, pro and con here, Like, yes,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: people can afford clothing more readily, they can access stuff
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: more easily. However, they have to replace it more often
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: because it is cheaply made.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone's done the numbers on this,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: but I actually would be willing to bet that in
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: many cases you end up spending more money buying more
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: items of clothing because they wear out fast. Sir, then
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: you would bind a r item of clothing that costs
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: a lot more but lasts a lot longer. Yeah, but
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Like, I'm sure the numbers like that exist,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: and it's probably true in some spaces and less true
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: in others. Probably depends on how aggressively you use that clothing.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: But I did find that the average number of uses
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: for a garment was seven times before it ends up
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: in a landfill, which is a pathetically small number of times. Like,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: they're right, I will say with the with the clothing
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: that I wear, it gets worn a lot more than
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: seven times.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I wear my clothes until they fall off.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they get worn seven times a week, you know.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just absolutely I won't tell you which parts though.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: That's right, just the underwear, OK, just kidding, just kidding,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: all right, anyway, that's I think this is part of
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: the nuance here is considering that like fast fashion has
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: made clothing cheaper and more available to people who just
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: have very little mo And that's a reasonable argument. I
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: do think we'd say, like, there are drawbacks to this,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: and possibly it has results in people spending more overall,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: but it has made clothing more accessible to people who
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: just don't have very much money. So that's fair, that's reasonable.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: We cak accept that one could also argue that the
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: staggering number of people employed by the fashion industry, the
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: fast fashion industry specifically, has contributed significantly to things like
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: economic growth. It's created thousands or even millions of jobs
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: for people who want and need those jobs. And to
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: be fair, this is pretty accurate, Like that is an
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: outcome of thish and we'll get to some of the
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: other impacts of this later because again it's not so
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: cut and dry, and it's not like those jobs would
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: just go away completely if things move to a less
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: aggressively paced model. But fast fashion has created a huge
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: amount of economic growth and employment opportunities for many people.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Like that is just an accurate statement. So again we're
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I appreciating the nuance a topic like this. That is
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: a thing to consider that people I think would argue, Yeah.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: One could also cynically point out that this is giving
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: people choices and that the system wouldn't work if people
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: didn't find value in using it. So basically is just
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: saying like, hey, you know what, if people didn't like this,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: they wouldn't actually attend to this, or they wouldn't participate
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: in this, it wouldn't exist. Yeah, it wouldn't exist. But
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: this is basically the drug dealer's argument, right, like is
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: it really worth going in there, because like, yeah, sure
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: choices are available, but like if you really think about
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: the mechanisms by which this choice works, like it is
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: a little bit like I don't want to say, I
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: don't want to say manipula, that's not the word, but
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: like it is like at the very least we understand
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: behaviorally how somebody may decide to make a choice in
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: this space for the same reason that people may make
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: a choice for their drug of choice and stuff like that.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's like, you know, if people didn't
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: like my drugs, they wouldn't buy them. I'm not twisting
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the arm, Like, well sometimes you are, but like let's yeah, yeah,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: besides side that, like the problem is like you got
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: them involved in the system, and like this is now
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: the system that's available to them. So like I don't
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: know if it's worth digging into a whole lot further,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: but yes, the system exists because people engage with that system,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: but it is exploiting several things to be a system
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: that can sustain itself. Right, So anyway, we'll talk more
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: about these as we get into some of the impacts
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: of this overall thing if you start trying to find
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: information on fast fashion. So let me back up. What
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: we were just describing in these arguments were essentially the
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I think, the nuanced aspects of fast fashion, where it's like,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: it's not black and white bad as we sort of
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: started off by alluding to. Right, But if you do
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: start trying to find information here, you will quickly find
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: that fast fashion has drawn considerable criticism from a wide
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: range of sources, right, And these can be you can
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: sort of broadly classify the types of criticism that it
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: is drawn in terms of its energy and materials used
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: to create the products, so what it takes to make
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: it work, the waste and pollution created by these products,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: and then the sort of societal impacts and concerns about
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: laborers and workers. So those the three broad categories. Is
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: resources used to make it, pollution and harm and waste
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: created from it, and the people who were affected by it.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and take them in that order,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: starting with the sort of sustainability of the raw materials.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so speaking of raw materials, fast fashion is the
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: second largest consumer industry of water after agriculture, which we
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: need to strike the second.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Largest second largest of everything in the world, the second
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: largest after farming. Yeah yeah, after making food for ourselves.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, let's talk about this for a second. So
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: it takes about seven hundred gallons of water to make
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: a single cotton shirt, and over two thousand gallons of
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: water to make a pair of genes.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: There's a lot here and those variety of reasons for that,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: but that's essentially what it sort of averages out to.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: And further, it requires a tremendous amount of cotton, which
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: requires land and of course water to grow, and then
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: energy to process. And of course it takes a huge
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: amount of energy to package, store, and ship these things
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: to retail box stores or to your front door, and
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that requires fossil fuel burning. Also, if you're not using cotton,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: or if you're using blends of cotton with other things,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: it requires synthetic materials, which are also largely derived from
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: fossil fuels. Different polyesters and whatnot will come from those.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: So we're talking about just like a tremendous amount of
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: resources needed to propel this industry or even just maintain
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: this industry, Like the amount it takes to package and
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: ship those things, the amount of fossil fuels used to
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: even make the fabrics that are used to make the
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: dyes that are used, and the raw materials used to
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: make those, including cotton and other things. Like, it's so so,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: so so much like a crazy, unfathomably large amount of
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: raw material goes into creating this industry.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and speaking of all the raw material and all
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: the things that goes into it, let's how about waste
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: and pollution. So, if you haven't heard of microplastics yet,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: sorry to ruin your day. I'm gonna give everybody fair warning.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: If you have testicles, they're probably in them.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: According to some studies. Now, without getting too deep into
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: the science, microplastics are what they sound like. They are
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: plastics that don't break down. Plastic doesn't break down specifically,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: it separates into microscopic plastic residue that is now so
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: ubiquitous that it is found in virtually every place that
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: has ever been looked that we've ever looked for it in,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: including your brain. Yes, yes, your brain, you have microplastics
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: in your brain. Twenty seventeen report from the IUCN estimated
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: that thirty five percent of all microplastics come from simply
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: laundering synthetic materials such as polyester. I mean I wear
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: nothing but polyester, so I'm probably a high contributor to this.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Like all my T shirts are polyester and also shiny.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: So fair fair, So yeah, like that's the microplastics are
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: everywhere one of the huge contributors of this. Like if
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: thirty five percent comes just from laundering those materials, how
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: much comes from making those materials are when they end
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: up in landfills?
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: And yeah, microplastics are everywhere now, right everywhere, right everywhere.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Everywhere they've looked on planet Earth, they have found them.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: They found them in clouds, they have found them in
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Arctic ice, they have found them in like fish and
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: deep sea fish. Yah, virtually everywhere everywhere they've looked, they
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: found them. So yeah, they are inescapable at this point, yep. Absolutely, Now,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: the basic pollution, even aside from microplastics, that comes from
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the fast fashion industry is destroying lakes and rivers if
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: it doesn't use up all the water first, for like
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: for the industry, right, so it is, if it doesn't
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: use up all the water, then it often just destroys
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: it outright, And this actually has already happened, So I
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: found this horrible story. There's this place called the oralc
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: or Aral Sea. Maybe it was once the fourth largest
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: inland c in the world, but due to diversion, largely
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: for the production of textiles, the sea has dried up
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: to only a fraction of its original size, leaving behind
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: essentially a desolate, toxic wasteland and destroying the fishing industry there,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: poisoning the local communities from the pesticides and chemicals that
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: are used in those processes. And there's just, yeah, this
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: empty wasteland that like used to be teeming with life
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: and abundance and people thriving in that space, and now
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: they're dying from the industries that have sucked up all
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: the water.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, the average American consumer is estimated to generate
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: eighty two pounds of textile waste every year, which is
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: you know, you've already got this waste issue. That's a problem.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: And let's take this step further. Right, So, according to
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: the UN Environmental Program, fast fashion is responsible for more
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: CO two emissions than all and I want to I
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: don't want to. I want to make sure that we're
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: catching this. All international flights and maritime ships combined, combined
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: fast Fashion. Let me say that again, just so we're
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: all on the same page. Fast Fashion is responsible for
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: more CO two emissions than all international flights and maritime
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: ships combined.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: That's a lot.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: That's astouniding huge amount. It's estimated to grow by another
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: sixty percent by twenty thirty, so in five years, it's
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: going to grow by more than half. In addition, while
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: many of these companies were either required to or wanted
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: to meet goals to reduce emissions with cuts the sustainability
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: programs and initiatives such as those being carried out by
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: the Trump administration, basically no one is on track two
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: to meet those goals, and is no longer even trying
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: to really reach those sustainability goals because why would they.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: There's no incentive to anymore, because current administrations make it
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: so that they don't really need to or want to
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: or care about it.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: And further, they've like kind of deincentivized engaging meaningfully with that.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: And beyond that, like, I think that some of them
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: have seen what's happening in the current administry and taken
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: that as a sign that that's what people want. Yeah,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: they're like, I guess people don't care about sustainability anymore.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Let's just stop trying, Like if nobody cares, we're not
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: going to care for sure. Yeah, and so that I
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: think has been some orientation to that we've seen from
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: other people. But of course you care about the sustainability
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: of this podcast by listening to these very cool ads.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Oh so cool.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: All right. So we've talked essentially about the raw material
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: issue that goes into trying to create fast fashion. We've
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: talked about the waste and pollution that comes out of
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: fast fashion, which is substantial across the board on both ends.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: But there's also many societal impacts to consider here. An
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: estimated eighty percent of apparel is made by women, specifically
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: between the ages of eighteen and twenty four years old. However,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: the US Department of Labor also found evidence of for
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: and child labor and fast fashion industries in Argentina, Bangladesh, Brazil, China, India, Indonesia, Philippines, Turkey, Vietnam,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: and other countries like there are people that are either
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: forced to work or there's child labor, which I could
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: also consider being forced to work in those spaces that
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: are responsible for producing those clothes, which is obviously a
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: sort of humanitarian problem.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, further to save on costs. The working conditions may
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: be very poor, can be very poor or unsafe. In
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: twenty thirteen and eight, story building that housed many textile
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: factories collapsed, killing one hundred and thirty four workers and
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: injuring twenty five hundred more. If you didn't hear about it,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: it's probably because it happened in Bangladesh, but that doesn't
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: make it any less scary or tragic. This is significantly
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: concerning when it comes to this type of thing.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's over a thousand people that are dyed
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: and two thousand more who were significantly injured in this.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: And it's like all in the all the name of
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: like not building appropriately so that we can save on costs, right,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: and it's currently being propped up by the fast fashion industry. Now,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: thinking about like the workers here, many of the laborers
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: in the fast fashion space are paid essentially in what's
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: what you call like some people call widget work or
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: it's like piecemeal work. Essentially, it's paid per how much
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: they make. This isn't everyone, but there are places where
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: this exists.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Working full time people in this system can earn up
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: to about two hundred dollars a week. Now, if they
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: were to follow a two paycheck or a two week
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: paycheck system, that means earning about four hundred dollars per
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: paycheck or about eight hundred dollars per month. If you
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: just keep doing the math, you take eight hundred and
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: multiply that by twelve. You get nine six hundred dollars
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: per year. Yep, not a lot. Yeah, And granted lease
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: are in you know, different countries where they have different
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: economies and that sort of thing. But like that is
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: very very little money.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like specifically in Bangladesh, which is the second largest
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: exporter of garments, workers are paid just one hundred and
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: thirteen dollars per month or just about one three hundred
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: and fifty six dollars per year. So again you're talking
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: about very very low wages in places where labor is exploited.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're making in a year what many people would
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: expect to make like per paycheck in a place like
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: the United States.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, depending on where they.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Work, you know, their level of education or not. But anyway,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: now another problem here is again this has to do
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: with costs. There's generally a lack of oversight or lack
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: of concern for safety of their employees, and that has
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: resulted in at least reports of and these have got
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: to be underrepresented, Like there's no way it's this isn't
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: a problem. I think this underrepresents the problem. Yeah, but
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: those reports of sexual harassment and sexual assault on workers,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: and a lot of those does go unreported, unpunished, and
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: unprevented or addressed in any capacity. And remember, most of
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: these workers are young women, right, who are in many
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: cases forced to do this labor and in some cases
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: they're desperate to just have some kind of income, right,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: So it's also like a dangerous space for them because
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: they don't care for their employees very much. Again, because
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: it's cheaper not.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: To right, Right, So we have to ask the question
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: of like why, like why do we do this? Like
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: why is this an industry? And you may have already
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: gotten some ideas for what you think might be going on,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: and you're probably right, and you're probably right, but you know,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, like our show is
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: called why we do what we do, not why we
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: look at statistics and talk about numbers, right, So let's
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: actually talk about why we do this, and we're going
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: to start with the companies, right, Like, why do companies
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: do this? So at some point during the twentieth century,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: enterprising little kers discovered that they could make a lot
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: more money by building things that need to be replaced
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: more often, by enabling or requiring subscription based products instead
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: of single sale products, and by pushing for quantity and
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: novelty over quality. So you kind of have a shift
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: in what you can describe as like values and goals
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: around what is being produced.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just it's just make more, like that's it.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah and one and those are ways to do it.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: And fast fashion is kind of like the most extreme
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: version of this so far, we don't like things could
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: presumably get worse. Yeah, So why do companies do it?
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Well because they can make a terrifying amount of money
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: and money for their shareholders. So like, if that's what
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: you're thinking, is like why do they do it because
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: it makes them rich? Then yeah, that is one of
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: the reasons why they do it, Like the money will
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: drive it.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and beyond just making a lot of money, they
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: can dominate and crowd out large swaths of the market. Right,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: So fast fashion company, Sheen Shying, Shane Shanan, Shan shan
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: is now the second most popular shopping website in the
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: world period. They are second only to Amazon, who obviously
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: sells everything. And many independent manufacturers and sellers have either
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: been acquired or driven out of business by the pricing
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: of these retailer giants who can outcompete with their prices,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: even when those companies had to peer your products and
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: better customer service.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when those smaller independent companies would have actually been
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: better for the consumer. Right if they were put out
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: of business or acquired by those wealthier companies, then that
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: business no longer exists, at least not in the way
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: that it did, and so that of course threatens a
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: lot of things. But it is an outcome of this
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: that allows then those companies to have greater control of
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: the market still. Now, besides the amount of money and
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: market shares that they control, their size and finances grants
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: them considerable power to directly drive and influence markets. They
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: can also influence fashion prices and even attitudes about these things.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: They get to control the supply and the demand. Yeah,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: like kind of not unlike the jewelry industry in that way,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Like they control both the supply and the demand, But
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: like that's very much Like with the size and power
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: of these companies, they get to control the entire economy
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: and the way that they want to. Then there are
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: parameters inside of that, like they won't be able to
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: get away with anything, but they do have a lot
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: of power to flex to have those things shift in
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: a way that's favorable to them and their shareholders, which
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: is ultimately the thing they care about most.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Right right now. Further, the systems that exist are too
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: fractured or corrupt to enact policies that would protect consumers,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: to protect workers, and to improve the environments from the
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: harm that is caused by the relentlessness of the fast
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: fashion industry. Like there's just so many kind of moving
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: parts that are just not talking to each other or
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: resolving issues that impact one another in any sort of
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: meaningful way. It's just too disjointed.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's complex. I mean, they get crazy amounts of money,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: like more so than we can even wrap our heads around.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: They have power and control over the entire market, industries,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: and people's behavior, and there is nothing that would stop
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: them from doing or there's little there's little that would
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: stop them from doing these things. Not nothing. There are
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: places that do have some policies and procedures that help
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: against this, but they just don't wield as much power, right, So,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: like that's why they do it. It's because of those factors,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: all right, now, consumers, why does this work on us
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: as consumers? I'll start with the easy one. It's cheap,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: that's why. Right in a world where our survival has
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: generally been relegated to currency, prices are nearly universal and
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: their ability to drive consumer behaviors. For some of us,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: it's a necessity, like we just have to spend as
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: little as possible to get by. For some of us,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: it's a practicality. For some of us it is a choice.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: But even no matter where you fall on the spectrum,
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: would you rather buy a sweater for eighty dollars when
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: you could get something nearly identical for twenty five dollars?
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Of course not, You're not going to do it, right,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: None of us would, and particularly when you can't even
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: tell which one of them is actually better, Like, just
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: because it comes from this mom and pop shop, does
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: that mean that it was made with any better quality
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: than the one that can get for a quarter of
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: the price online? Right, I don't know, Like we don't
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: know they may have come from the exact same manufacturer,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: So why would we pay so much more for something
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: that has the same problem as the one that I
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: can get for less of the price. So, like we
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: essentially it comes down to economics drive our ability to survive. Unfortunately,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: sadly that is a reality of it. And so that
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: when we need to be careful with that money that
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: we do have for things like purchases, for example, for
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: things such as clothing, then we're going to choose the
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: cheaper option. And also another thing here is that we
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: can't necessarily tell whll the more expensive option is actually
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: even better quality. So I think those are important considerations
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: in terms of consumer behavior.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Here, right. And also many of these companies have found
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: ways to gamify their shopping processes. Many of these are
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: specifically app driven platforms. Team Moose specifically uses a truly
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: obnoxious shenanigan to force you to spend a bunch of
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: money on things you don't even want. So essentially, when
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: you log into the app or the website for the
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: first time, you can't search for what you are there
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: to find. First ship to scroll through a list of
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: steeply discounted products that may or may not be relevant
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: to you. Along the way, you'll tap on free gifts,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: further discounts, or free items. You keep playing, you'll get
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: offers to redeem hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: of discounts. After doing this for about an hour, if
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: you haven't made about four different purchases, none of which
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: were the reason that you were even on the website
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: to begin with, you may be able to search for
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: the thing that you are there to buy to begin with.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: So like, that's kind of like a strange it takes
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: you so long to get to the thing that you
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: want to get to.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's this whole process of like spin the
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: wheel and get another discount, and scroll through this list
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: and choose eleven things, and if you do that, then
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: you unlock this discount and then oh, because you did that,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: you actually unlocked a bonus round of discounts. And it's like, yeah,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: so you've made a purchase. Then you made another purchase,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Then you made another purchase. Then you go through another
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: round of purchases, and then they're like, all right, now
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: search our website for things that you might want to buy.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I just spent two hundred dollars, right, and
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: none of them were the thing I was here for, right,
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: And like, granted I got a lot of stuff that
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: is pretty steply discounted, but like, yeah, that was my
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: experience with it. I was like, I went through it once.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: I was like, wow, that is a lot of crazy shenanigans.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: I went through a second time and I'm like, never again.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: I don't have the patience for this, Like this is
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: just not worth my time or effort to try and navigate.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: So I personally am done with it. But that that
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: is a way that they can rope people in. Is
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: that sort of gamified process where it becomes sort of
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: can you you outmaneuver the system to get these crazy discounts?
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: And the answer is absolutely not, but you might think
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: that you can. Yeah, so you're led to believe it's possible.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not like that. I mean, like you,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: the more information you know, you can just choose not
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: to participate in it.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you can choose not to participate in these
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: ads either.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: All right, So we're back. We're talking about how the
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: consumer behavior is influenced by these processes. One of them
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: is that it's cheap. One is that they have gamified
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: the process. Another aspect of fast fashion is the number
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: of choices, and we've talked about it before on this show.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Choice is a relatively important thing to humans, not invariably
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: and not universally, but like broadly speaking, we tend to
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: prefer choice. We tend to prefer choice, and in the
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: fast fashion space we encounter nearly every conceivable design choice
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: or style. And furthermore, it's presented as like a limited
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: time opportunity, like this style will go away and be
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: replaced in a week or a month or something like that,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: So you better make that choice now because you won't
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: be able to make that choice in the future. And
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: that fear of that fomo is something that can also
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: drive this. But anyway, we get a crazy number of
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: choices with some limitations around the kind of things we
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: might select, and that allows us to really curate and
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: cultivate a look that is unique to us. Cognitive psychologists
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: that I found in this space they like to say
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: things like we see clothes as an extension of ourselves,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: whatever the that means. But the point I think that
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: they're trying to make, if I'm being generous here and
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: I think the way that I could interpret how we
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: think about this with the number of choices and the
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: unique look that we can cultivate for ourselves is that
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: we can we are given the opport need to recruit
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of social reinforcement for our wardrobe choices by
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: being unique in some way. If we're all wearing the
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: same outfit, like it's you're not likely to encounter a
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: lot of people who are like, hey, nice shirt, Like yeah,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: it's your shirt too, Yeah, because we're all wearing the
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: same clothes.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: So there is an aspect of this that comes from
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: the number of choices and differences in styles and designs
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: allows us to stand out somewhat uniquely and create sort
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: of an image that we would like to represent, and
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: then we do, in fact retrieve some social recognition from
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: that people commenting on our clothes or reacting to it
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: in some way we might be trying to specifically evoke
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: and almost counter response and people like recoiling from the
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: fashion choices we've made. But like, that is a choice
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: that you get, Like you get to make that decision
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: and present yourself in that way. And fast fashion is
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: arms dealer. They don't care where you're on the spectrum
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: as long as you're buying their stuff.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're playing both sides. So further conversations around fast
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: fashion are sure to gardner some eye rolls and dismissal
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: from people who don't want to think about the role
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: that they play in these issues. And that's fine, I
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: get it. Even mentioning fast fashion can create a context
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: in which people feel that they're being attacked as bearing
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: some personal responsibility for the situation created by fast fashion.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: And we have to kind of ask the question, like,
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: what are the ethics of participating in the system. Should
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: consumers bear responsibility for the flaws of the system? And
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I think we can say, of course, not exclusively, right,
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: but we should not pretend that our individual choices have
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: no effect just because it is a small effect the
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: trillions of dollars these companies make our trillions of individual choices.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like dieting, Like one skittle doesn't make
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: a difference in your overall health or weight, but if
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: you choose to eat candy every one to two minutes
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: of your waking day, the compounding effect will be real.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: And you know there are ways to be able to
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: access I would say cheap clothing in a more meaningful way,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Like there's lots of like thrift stores, and there are
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: places where you can access goods at similar, if not
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: better prices. That are you know, instead of that you know,
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: set of clothing being thrown in the trash and stuff
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: like that too. So like, I think that it's worth
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: kind of like evaluating other options to find cheap, accessible clothing.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: And we will actually speak some more specifically about what
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: those are. But yeah, as a brief summary here, like
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: with consumer behavior, the things that I think are relevant
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: are understanding that it's cheap. The companies have gone out
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: of their way to gamify our shopping experiences to influence
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: us to make more purchases than we even want or
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: need to. We have a huge number of choices, which
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: allows us to recruit some social recognition for our unique
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: appearance and choices, and speaking out about this actually is punished,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: like trying to have a counter opinion to the idea
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: of fast fashion is likely to result in some rejection
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: from the people around us in society writ large. Also,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I mentioned this, but it's cheap.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, did you say that? Did you say
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: that yet? That it's cheap. It's cheap.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: We may should probably say it again, it's cheap.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Doesn't cost very much to the consumer who's purchasing. Right
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: to the world at large, it can cost somebody their lives.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Cost everything. Yeah, but yes, those are the things I
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: think to understand about the consumer behavior aspect of this.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: I do think there are broadly more things that we
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: could talk about the systems that are involved here and
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: the behaviors that do contribute to those systems. But I
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: do think like it's worth moving on to understanding sort
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: of where the future is on this. And the systems
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: are not going to be so super different from the
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: things that we've already talked about with respect to industry
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: and consumers and like how those systems operate. You just
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: get into sort of larger political systems and they're very
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: similar to like and overall sort of contingencies that govern those.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: So right, let's think then about the future of fast fashion.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: Do we have a positive outlook a negative outlook? Are
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: we just trying to describe where it's going? It does
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: depend on your perspective right now, For the shareholders of
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: fast fashion companies, the future is bright man. Yeah, that
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: looks good. Current political trends are demanding less or no
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: oh accountability of perpetrators for the consequences of fast fashion,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: and this means that they can make more money less
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: with less oversight. They can hurt as many people as
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: they want. They'll know one will say boom, and they
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: can just have all the power and influence in the world.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: And we've seen this happen not only with fast fashion,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: but with others where you have corrupt politicians who essentially say,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: you give me money, I give you privilege. And that
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: is where we find ourselves currently. Yeah, and so the
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: future for them financially great future for mankind different story.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not so much. Now. Some retailers are actually trying
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: to make a difference. So Patagonia has long had a
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: mission to responsibly produce high quality garments intended to last
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: a long time. Their prices are vomit inducing, but they
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: are really trying to do the right thing with their production.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: I subscribe to a magazine called The Flow Trip. Historically
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: it was called Whalebone, and they always bring up some
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: of the sustainability initiatives that Patagonia uses and kind of
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: brings that up because it's very like, you know, life, earth, nature,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: like you know, stuff like that, and so they do
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: some cool stuff with with do you talk about patagony
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: and some of the work they're doing. It's pretty cool,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: expensive but cool.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like this is a value driven company.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: You go and you look at their prices and they're like, oh,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: I wonder how much that jacket is? Three hundred dollars.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and again why I hate fashion.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but like it's it is in part because, and
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: I would say, if not entirely, because they are trying
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: to do the right thing. And it's like they are
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: they are paying more for higher quality things that are
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: designed to last longer and not just get thrown in
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: the trash after seven uses or less. They're intended to
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: last a long time. So I think they're an investment
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: in something that is supposed to sort of stick around.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: And not that I'm I'm trying to campaign for them.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to recognize that there are companies in
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: the space that are being fairly successful who are pushing
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: towards trying to be more sustainable in their approach. Sure,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: other retailers are trying to address the motivation to have
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: you unique clothing by offering things like more customization of
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: their products that are unique to you. So their hope
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: is that this will kind of address the aspect of
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: fast fashion, that is, you get a unique look because
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: you can sort of custom make the things that you get.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: And their goal here is that this will increase customer
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: satisfaction and decrease things like returns, resales and things just
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: being thrown away. And actually one company I found who's
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: really pioneering this is a Didas. They're really trying to
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: create some lines of products that are more customized with
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: the goal in mind that those are not things that
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: are sold that are thrown away, and they're not things
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: that are returned, and that they are they stick around longer,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: so like maybe if we have this more customized to you,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: you'll hold on to it longer, which again I think
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: is a cool initiative that they seem to be trying
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: to spearhead. And there are other companies too, but that's
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: just one that I saw pop up right away.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Right right right now. For the rest of the world,
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: the future is pretty grim. This is so close to
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: the actual story the lower acts, it's almost comical. They're
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: literally destroying our only home and telling us that we
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: should be so lucky to live in their muckety muck,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: and most people believe them. And the truth is that
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: we don't all need needs.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: We don't. It's true. Yeah, I mean honestly, Like it
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: feels so crazy similar to that, it's like our planet
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: is being absolutely annihilated by these processes. They're like, well,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: lucky you you get to have our product. I'm like, yeah,
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: but our planet.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: But I can't drink anything.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when we're all gone, who you're planning to sell
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: this to? Like all that's left is a gigantic landfill
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: that was once a planet that's covered in all these
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: old clothes, and your long dead and everyone you care
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: about is long dead, and there's nothing left here, Like
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: we've just destroyed what there could have been. Or like
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Wally is like another ample like Y's. That's sort of
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: where they're headed. Although we don't get to escape this
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: planet and go live on a cruise, a giant intergalactic
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: cruise ship forever now until our planet heals itself. Now,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: we just die along with the planet.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what sucks too, is that probably on
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: like Timu machine or whatever, Like there's probably a shirt
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: that says, unless yeah, it's just just just to like
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: rub it in. Like I'm sure some designer was like,
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: you know what this is. This is as close to
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: its need as we're going to get.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: So unless on a shirt somewhere, Yeah, unless we play
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: more ads. All right, we're back. We're kind of at
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: the wrapping up the end here, I think, you know,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: just talking about the future of where things are going
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: and what we can expect here A Shane was mentioning
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: before there are some initiatives to push for more shopping
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: at like second hand retailers, trying to give these things
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: a little extra life. You'll probably actually find some of
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: the more high quality products that will survive several uses
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: and then being sold. But yes, these things exist, and
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: this is actually proved to be a bit more popular
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: with the gen zers, interestingly, because they're trying to They're
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: actually looking to reduce their participation and the fast fashion
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: industry that's trapped them in this very bleak future they
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: see before them, because they are the ones who are
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: sort of on the cusp of having to deal with
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: the worst outcomes and consequences of this. In addition, there
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: are many companies and nonprofit organizations that are striving to
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: support various projects such as recycling, upcycling of previously used clothing,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: and there are even some that try to subsidize higher
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: quality clothing so that those higher quality garments can compete
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: with those fast fashion prices and therefore be more sustainable
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: but also affordable. So there are people out there who
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: are trying to do the work, like they're fighting the
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: good fight. Yeah, really pushing for it. But man, they
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: are small, small peanuts next to the colossal goliath that
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: is the fast fashion industry.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: One point seven trillion dollars.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's a lot of trillion dollars.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: It's it's a lot of trillion dollars. It's more trillion
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: dollars in oliver. I could ever fath them.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Now there are things you can do because, like
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: I think, I think it's important when we do share
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: like doom and gloom and like bad you know, bad
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: juju and stuff like that, I think it's important to
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: kind of go back and say, like, let's talk about
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: what we can do to start improving at least and
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: have an individual impact. So first we can vote for
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: policies that enact laws to protect and also politicians that
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: will enact laws to protect workers, consumers, and the environment.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: Vote for representatives who can paign on these issues and
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: follow through on those issues, not just campaign on them,
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: but follow through on them. Their say do correspondence is
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: so critically important in these spaces.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot of times, like if they're they're
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: a new candidate, then we don't know what they're going
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: to do. But like if they promise one thing and
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: get into the office and don't do that thing, then
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: vote them out, like vote on their competitor next time
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: that they're up for reelection. But yeah, I mean the
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: idea is we want to if nothing else, we do,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: want to create a space where people are talking about
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: it and so that this becomes an issue that they
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: can campaign on, I mean that people will respond to.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: So that's one thing you can do is vote, is
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: get out there and vote in places where you're able
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: to vote. I know that the United States is not
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: really democracy anymore, but there are democracies out there where
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: people get to vote. And so the way if you
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: can then do that thing. Yeah, Another is to try
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: and reduce your overall consumption habits. I saw a quote
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: that was like a really good way to think about
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: this is that less is more rather than buy just
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: to buy, see if you can withhold, try and make
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: the choice that like, if you don't need it, don't
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: necessarily get it, yeah, or to you know again, invest
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: in the thing that is higher quality, that will last
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: a little bit longer, and then just not buy as often.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: And I know that that doesn't work for all people,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: but if you can in the space is where you can,
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: and you want to help try and push things in
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: the right direction, then just try and reduce overall consumption
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: habits where possible.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can also embrace sustainability habits such as recycling, upcycling,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: purchasing sustainably made products. There's quite an industry for this.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: And I say industry, I just mean like there's a
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: space for this, Like you you know, for the neighborhood
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: that I live in, there's a local community garden, which
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: is also something that's helpful for sustainability practices, right, Like
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: there's a pretty rigid recycling routine here. Like there's stuff
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: that we can do on a day to day basis
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: that will like have some kind of impact and also
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: model behavior that can improve somebody else's behavior too well.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: And actually speaking of Another thing you can do is
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: talk about this, like bring these issues up. I know
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: it can be cringy, and I know people don't like
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: to hear this, but part of the viability of current systems,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: like part of the reason that this can continue to
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: exist is that it depends on us being unwilling to
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: talk about these issues. Like if we're like, oh, I
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: don't want to make someone feel a little uncomfortable by
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: talking about these things that are destroying our planet, Like tough,
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Like, we just need to be able to
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: talk to each other. We don't have to be dicks
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: about it. We don't have to be all blame and
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: like you suck because you bought this thing from fast
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: fashion websites. It's just we just need to talk about
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: the the issues and make sure that they're out in
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: the open and be willing to share our voices so
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: that that they're loud enough to be heard by people
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: in various spaces. And again, like, I think the best
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: approach is let's not blame each other for this, Like
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: let's just talk about what's happening in the system so
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: that we can be made more aware, because then we
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: can make choices that are more intentional and not just
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: based on pure ignorance, which seems to be where most
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: of this industry would prefer that we live is in
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: pure ignorance. Yeah, and let's just not live there, Like,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: let's try and talk to each other and be informed
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: about what's going on so that we can make intentional choices.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think we have to be intellectually honest to
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: be socially responsible. Yeah. I think that's just what it
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: comes down to.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Awesome, all right, So that is fast fashion. I think
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: that we have said everything we want to say about that.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: I've wanted to talk more about fashion more broadly in
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: various spaces, and for similar reason as you, like, I
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: don't particularly love the fact that this industry exists in
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: the way that it does. But this at least addressed
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: an aspect of it. So I'm glad that we got
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: it out there. But I think that's what we have
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: to say about that. Is there anything you want to
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: add to this discussion on fast fashion before we move
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: on to our other things?
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the thing I want to make sure
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: that I clarify is, like, I think that fashion in general,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: like the fashion industry in the hoity toittiness is the problem. Like,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: as I was thinking about this, I was like, well,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: cultural fashion and fashion related spirituality is so important. Like
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: I think that good point accessibility in fashion is really important.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: And I want to be really clear, like I don't
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: have Like I think those are probably separate topics that
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: we could probably unpack as different episodes. This one is
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: like specifically the fashion that exists as a result of
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: elitism and money making schemes and all that, and I
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: think that that is ultimately where my that's where my
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: thorn is so fair. Hopefully we can do better. We
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: can do better.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, you're exactly right. Is I do think
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: like there are a lot of aspects of fashion that
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: have extremely important cultural significance, And where this has created
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: so much instability is in the sort of mass production
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: and turnover that has come out of this. Yes, Like
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: it would be one thing if we were producing clothing
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: on the scale because we needed to clothe so many
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: people because they desperately needed it for their survival, right,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: and I'd be like, great, go a full steam ahead,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: let's do it. That's great, But that's not what this
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: is being used for. Like we're not addressing a major
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: concern here. It could be creating some of the concerns,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: although I do think, as we mentioned, it is important
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: to consider like how many jobs this is created, and
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: the fact that it has made clothing more available to
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: more people who maybe wouldn't have otherwise been able to
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: get access to it. Yeah, but there are Yeah, there
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: are a lot of a lot of nuanced discussion to
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: have in those spaces and accessibilities. Another really important one
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: where we're thinking about, like the role that fashion plays.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: That's just it's not black or white. It's extremely complex. Yeah,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: and there are a lot of like every issue has
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: so many different sides and considerations that and I think
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: fast fashion is one of those. Like there is so
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: much harm that comes out of this, it is crazy,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: but there are there are a lot of better I
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: think we have to acknowledge.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And I think that's it comes down to that, right,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: Like the best solution is one that makes the problem
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: non non relevant, right like or you know, and that's
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: what we want to look for, is like cool people
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: can get clothing, but how do we make it so
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: that this is also less harmful? Yeah, Like that's the
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: problem that we are facing right now.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: I actually broadly have had a topic in mind. I'm
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to distill it down into
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: a conversation where everything sort of makes sense where I
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: think it's worth considering. Like if we can pull off
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: something like fast fashion, if we can do that as
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: a species, imagine what we could do if our goal
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: was to prevent disease, to make sure that people can
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: survive comfortably and like have housing. Like imagine, like we've
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: seen what we can do in these industries when we're
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: not trying to help each other. Imagine if we took
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: those resources and putting them toward helping each other, what
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: this planet would be? Like, Oh my god, Like there
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: is almost no limit to what we could accomplish. Yeah,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: And so like thinking about it from that perspective, and
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: it's like, what if we just started from the assumption
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: that we want people to have high quality lives and
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: like we want the planet to be like a livable
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: place where things are sustainable, and then from there we
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: go forward with the kind of idea like practices we
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: have and we just manipulate them so that the same
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: amount of effort is put toward more positive outcomes. Like
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: I can't even imagine what we could achieve, it would
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: be so so beautiful.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: But anyway, a.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: Conversation for another time. Thank you all for listening. If
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: you stuck with us through that whole entire thing, we
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: hope that you found some education and enjoyment and entertainment
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: of our shenanigans. I've been talking through these things. We
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: appreciate you being here. And if you are here for
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: the very first time, you may not know this, but
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: the end of each of our discussions we include some
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: really fun recommendations. They're just things. They're not usually related
• 1:04:44
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• 1:04:47
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• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: both of those things for you today. But before we
• 1:04:52
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• 1:04:54
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• 1:04:56
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• 1:04:59
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• 1:05:03
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• 1:05:06
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• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: are consuming those do not get and that makes you
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: oh so special. And in addition to that, at the
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: end of each episode, I will read your name and
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: appreciation for helping support us do the thing that we do.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: So giant. Thank you to Mike, m Megan, Mike T, Justin,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian, Ashley, Kiara and Charlie. Thank you
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: all so much.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Finger guns for you guys. Love it.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: How longest patron has been with us for over six years,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: by the way, so that rules. Yeah, that's very cool,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: very very cool. I'm trying to say, like, call people
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: anyone else specifically, but.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: All I'm saying is that everybody who's listening the right now,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: I bet you can't beat that record.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: That's pretty good. That's pretty good, oh man. Anyway, the
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: other ways you can support us, you can like and subscribe,
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• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: Those five stars in the reviews means that we show
• 1:06:04
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• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: And if you have something critical to say to us,
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  Speaker 1: us directly at info awwdwwdpodcast dot com or join us
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  Speaker 1: on the social media platforms and we can converse with
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: you there. Thank you so much to my team of people,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: without whom I could not make this podcast. Writing in
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: fact checking come from Shane and myself. Thank you for
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: recording with me today, Shane, thank you for putting this
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: episode together, Abraham Sure Sure. Our social media coordinator is
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Emma Wilson, and our audio engineer and producer who makes
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: all of this listenable is Justin who does just a
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  Speaker 1: really really good job at everything. He's like, so good
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: at it, so good at it. If you want to
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: really learn how good at it he is, you can
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  Speaker 1: join us on Patreon and get our unedited episodes and
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: see what would have happened without his intervention.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: What a master skill set he's got.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's truly remarkable. I mean, it's really like
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: turning a lump of clay into an object, Like you
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: just get a lump of clay and out of it
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: comes an episode. It's pretty cool.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: It is. It is. I think there is maybe more
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: things to say. I don't know, but I think it
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: described most of it. Anything for you to add before
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: we move.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: On, Nope, I think that covers it.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, great, Well, let's start with a quick listener male. Okay,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: this comes from listener Letitia, who has written in many times.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: We really appreciate these correspondents. This is in relation to
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: our Punk Rock Legacy episode. Ale Teacher writes in punk
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: Rock Legacy is the best episode exclamation point. I loved
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: hearing rise against my personal favorite recommendation, Authority zero. I
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: look forward to every episode. Keep up the amazing work, guys. Ah,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: thank you, yeah, thank you so much. I was very
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: sweet and I appreciate the shout out and recommendation. I
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: can't believe we forgot Authority zero when we were doing
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: a list here. Granted we weren't going to list like
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: every punk that ever existed, but that one maybe should
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: have been on the list. So I appreciate that the
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: solid recommendation to include there.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Every time I think of authorities here, I also
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: think of Against All Authority, which is a very different band,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: but it's a lot of fun. Yeah.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you can see like the DNA overlap is there?
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah?
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: So But anyway, thanks choice drummer. Very cool. I really
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: appreciate that. Let's do an advertisement. Oh all right, we're back,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: So more music coming back from the ad break is
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: to recommend some things.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: I love that recommendations.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: I'm recommending an old movie. This is from I want
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: to say, nineteen ninety eight. I'd looked it up before
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: we started recording, and I think that it's nineteen ninety eight. Yeah,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: it's a movie called The Faculty. And this is like
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: a sci fi horror sort of thing. But nineties horror
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: was such a special and unique and weird thing.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: It really was.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: It really was so How to describe this without giving
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: too much away, I think it's pretty clear. I mean,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: this is a thirty year old movie. Now I'm almost
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: thirty years old. Who cares about spoiler? This is like
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: an alien body snatching movie. It is so much fun.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: It is like, legitimately so much fun. It's funny, it's entertaining,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: it's interesting, it's captivating. It's so nineties in so many ways.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: But it's just it's a really fun watch. So I
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: definitely recommend. I think at the time that we're recording this,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: it's on Netflix. I think it's out there. You can
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: find it on streaming somewhere. Just go look for it.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: But yes, The Faculty. If you're looking for like a locky, silly,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: weird horror, sci fi. This one was a crazy amount
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: of fun. So I'll give a little context. I was
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: telling Shane last time we recorded, I ended up watching
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: like three movies last weekend. I don't usually get to
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: watch very many movies. It was, so it was really cool.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: I got to do three, like back to back, and
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: The Faculty was one of them. And of the three,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: this one was the most fun. And I enjoyed all
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: three of them to a point, but this one was
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: the most fun. So The Faculty is my recommendation. Go
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: check it out.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's also directed by Robert Rodriguez. So if that
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: tells you anything about yeah, like that's the best part.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: It's like when you watch it, you're like, oh, all
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: these people are in it, Like Josh Hartnet's in it,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: like Elijah Wood, Like it's pretty. It's really like quintessential nineties.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: And I guess what I didn't say in there was
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: that I had never watched this movie. Like I knew
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: about it. I remember when it came out and I
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: remember thinking I want to see that, and I just
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: never did. And so this was my first time watching it.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: So I'm very enjoyed it much enjoying.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: It, and I'm going through the cast that I forgot
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: all these people were in it. John Stewart, Yeah, Daniel Vombargin,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: who's like a character actor usher, Selma Hayak is in there,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: Selma Hyak, Fanka Jensen. Like, just the amount of people
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: that are in it is pretty incredible. It's well worth the.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: Watch it is. Yeah, it's quite the cast and like, yes,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: there is just like the silliest cgi like what they
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: could accomplish in nineteen ninety eight, but some of the
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: practical effects are actually really good too, Like they're really fun,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: so really fun movie.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's great. I fully second that recommendation. It's
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: so fun.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like we were sort of commenting if you
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: watch it, Josh Hart and it's hair. I was like,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: I feel like, what happened with the costume department is
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: theyre like, he is way too handsome for this role.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: Let's make his hair look as dumb as humanly possible.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: It actually looks like they directly tried to make it
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: look like dumb and dumber, like that's what his hair
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: sort of looks like, and like he's way too good looking,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: so at least make his hair look bad. That's my Yeah,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: that's what I think happened there.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred. All right, I'm gonna recommend a an
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: album I love. I love music, and I love listening
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: to new music, and sometimes I like listening to new
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: music from old bands. And last week a new album
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: came out from the band Deftones. If you like them,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: it's called Private Music, and I gotta say it's it's
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: really really, really good.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: The thing with Deftones is that they rarely have bad output.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: Yah.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I gotta say, like, you know, like there's
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: a couple albums where I'm kind of like, it's good
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: it's a Deaftones record. I just am like, you know,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: I can kind of like I can go back and
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: listen to White Pony and feel okay with it, right.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: But the last two records, Owns and Private Music are incredible.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: And so this music I've been playing NonStop since it
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: came out. It opens with this really cool, just like
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: really loud, like hey we're Deftones, We're here, and it's
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: got a really big shoegazy feel to it, which Deftones
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: kind of already has, ye, but like they do it
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: really well on this and and it's worth a listen.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: The first song was called My Mind is a Mountain,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: I think, and that was like the lead single coming
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: into the record. But the artwork is cool. It's like
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: really brilliant. It's like a green backdrop with a bright
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: white snake on the front of it. It's really cool looking,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: really interesting, and it's a really easy listen too. So
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: I think if you like Deaftones, you're gonna love it.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: And that's just that's my recommendation for that.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: I've actually been on kind of a Deftones kick lately
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: and I did not know about this, so now I'm
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: really excited to go check this out.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: Cool, it's their tenth full length.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: Wow, I did not know that. Yeah, I am particularly
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: fond of Around the Fur.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, who's gonna dislike like Adrenaline or
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: White Bunny, That's what I'm saying.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you like, if you like any
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: of their recent more recent output to where it's a
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: little bit more shoegazy and less of the new metal
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: stuff that they kind of do, like, you're gonna I
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: think you're gonna dig it.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, great, I'm definitely checking that out. So great, recommendation. Okay,
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: that is the Faculty old nineteen ninety eight movie and Deftones.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: Private music is what it's called.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: Kaya, Yes, private music, got it?
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: Okay? All right? Yeah, perfect, So those are Yeah. If
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: you want to tell us about your thoughts on fast
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: Fashion or Deftones or the Faculty, your other nineties horror
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: or other sort of continuing to put out new music
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: old prog metal bands or whatever, or new metally bands,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: then that's great. We'd love to hear from you. But
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: I think that's what we have to say about those
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: issues for now. So I think that it's time for
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: us to sign off. Thank you for listening. This is
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: Abraham and this is Shane. We're out.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: See Yeah, you've been listening to Why We Do what
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: we do. You can learn more about this and other
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: episodes by going to WWD WWD podcast dot com. Thanks
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: for listening, and we hope you have an awesome day