Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Child killer Susan Smith's prison mischief & Florida police say they caught a 'killer clown'

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Child killer Susan Smith's prison mischief & Florida police say they caught a 'killer clown' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Be Weary. Two thousand four, Maura Murray empties her bank account,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: drives four hours from school, crashes her car, and vanishes.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Joined the search as an investigative reporter, uncovers new evidence
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: in terrogates new witnesses, traces down new leads in this
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: riveting new investigative series, The Disappearance of Maura Murray Saturday's
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: seven sixth Central and nine eight Central on Oxygen, the
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: new network for crime Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Sirius x Him Triumph Channel one thirty two. Notorious Susan Smith,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the woman who drowned her two little boys. She's been
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: no angel in prison. Life hasn't been easy for Susan Slift.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Behind bars, she's been disciplined for having had sex with
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: two different Corrections officers. The guards both lost their jobs. Smith,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: now forty six, looks much different today than when the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: world Old king to Nowhere twenty three years ago, when
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: she claimed she'd been carjacked with her two boys still
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: in the vehicle. Whoever pass my children, that they please
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: please bring him home. She later confessed to rolling the
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: car into a lake with the boys still strapped in
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: their car seats. In this letter, Susan Smith wrote, I
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: am not the monster society thinks I am. I want
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: to say to him, my baby, your mama loves you
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: so much, and your daby, This whole families loves you
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: so much. And you guys got a bistrow. That was
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Susan Smith begging for the return of her children. Her
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: two little boys, Michael three alex Is fourteen months according
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: to her, stolen by a man basically a card shacker,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and she was desperate. That was a public play for
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: their return. It was only learned later that Susan Smith,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: the mother, has strapped her two little children into the
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: family car and rolled it into a lake as they
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: screamed for their mother. She stood at the dock and
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: saw the car go underwater as she heard her boys screams.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Just three years old and fourteen months disappear, and now
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: child killer Susan Smith makes the headlines again. I Nancy Grace,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: this is crime stories. Thank you for being with us.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: It just never ends with this woman joining me from
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: People magazine. Steve Helling, Steve Helen, thank you for being
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: with us. I read your article. It was awesome. Let's
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: talk about Susan Smith. A life of sex drugs in
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: fractions STDs, one thing after the next. What's happening? How
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: can all this go down behind bob? I don't know, Nancy,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: but I can tell you that it is going on
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: behind bars, and she's getting in trouble again and again
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and again. And it's everything from possession and use of
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: narcotics or marijuana to um, you know, cutting herself to okay,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: wait right right there, Hold on just a moment. You know,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: when I would visit the jail to speak to witnesses
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: or find witnesses, they practically strip searched me. I had
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: to hand over every single thing, take off my jewelry,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: take off my shoes. But that's when I still I
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: was carrying a briefcase everywhere. Open up my briefcase, said,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: sort through it. I was an assistant district attorney for
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Pete's sake, exactly. How and the hey is she getting
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: marijuana behind bars? Hey? She got something else behind bars?
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Essentially transmitted disease STD. She didn't have that going in.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Isn't it true Steve Helling that not one but two
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: prison guards have been sentenced to a crime for sex
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: with Susan Smith, the child killer boy. That's sexy. True,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: But to them, what's wrong with man? Alan Duke? You
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: know a woman is a two time killer, a child killer,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: but they still want to have sex with her. Are
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: they crazy? Yeah? We think sometimes with other parts of
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: our body. It makes no sense. I ask you, never mind,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: go hell go asked it. I'm sure your wife is
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: happy to hear that. Steve Helen. Can I get back
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: to you with me? Steve Helling? People Magazine? Who takes
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: a lid off the life Susan Smith is leaving behind ours?
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, isn't it true, Steve Helling? Cheef? I feel
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: like I've got you on a chair across exam. I'm
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: just having a field day. Isn't it true, Steve Helling
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: that the staff at the c I Correctional Institute have
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: been warned do not let a man alone in the
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: room with Susan Smith like she's a wild tiger. I mean,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: you can't. They've been told she can't be alone with
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: a man in a room because they see that you know,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: she's a risk. She will apparently have sex with clearly anybody,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: and she's doing it behind bars. And it's a crime
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: when these when these guys have sex with her I
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: mean they've spent they've done jail time because of it,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: So yeah, as they should. She has sex with prison guards,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: including Houston Kegel, who was later jail for three months
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: for the affair, and a prison captain, Alfred Rowe, who
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: got probation it was discovered she had sex relations with
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Kegel after Smith tests positive for an STD. I mean,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: aren't their cameras everywhere? Well, I mean didn't you see
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: l Chapoh, he saw him almost to the last minute
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: when he seemingly disappeared into his commode. But how's this
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: happening and nobody's catching it? Well, you know, these these guards,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: they know where they can be and where they can't be.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: They know where the cameras are, Nancy, they know where
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: there's they can have some privacy, and so you know,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: obviously if they find somebody willing and Susan Smith, they
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: for whatever reason they have decided to go and do that,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: which you know, I'm not saying that prison guards are
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: the ones who are getting her drugs in prison. We
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: don't know, we have no idea how she's getting them,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: but you know, one sure way to make sure you're
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: getting preferential treatment is to be having sex with the guards,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: and we know she's done it before. Who knows if
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: she's doing it again? But is it worth it? Okay,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, guys, the funny story with me
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: is Mary Ellen Hopkins Crime Stories investigative reporter Steve Helling
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: from People Magazine, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, death sting
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: investigator and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, and
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: the Duke, Alan Duke joining me from l A. And
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: here in the studio, producer Jackie Howard. Hold on, guys,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: just about I've got to tell you a funny story,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: all right. So um, I tried all my cases so
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: low set from my investigator Earnest. But on one case,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: a very good friend of mine in the courthouse in
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: the d a's office, Herman Sloan, who is now a judge,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: and I love him then and I love him now,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: And he was one of the very few people that
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: I really if he said it, I believed it, so
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I could ask him a question if I needed to,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: and I would, you know, be pretty sure he knew
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: the answer. So we were in court, I was trying
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: a case and Herman was there as an expert for
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: some reason. He was sitting beside me at council table.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: The trial was ongoing, and somebody had a newspaper and
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: it was sitting there and I saw it and looked
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: at the picture. I'm like, herman, where were you when
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: these children went missing? Because she gives this composite picture,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: and the picture looked just like Herman Sloane, it looked
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: just like my trial partner, who was now a judge.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: He looked at it and just died laughing. So she
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: rolls her children and strapped in a car seat, into
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: the water, and then she blames an unknown black man. Okay,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: for herman was Santas and herman, do you know this guy?
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: And he looked data and we both just died laughing.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, then when at first when she gave the
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: public police steve for a second, it was convincing. But
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: when her story came out that at I guess it
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: was at a red light or a stop sign, basically
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere. And I can say the
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: middle of nowhere because I grew up in the middle
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: of nowhere. We were not even in a city where
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: we were in unincorporated bib County, outside of making Georgia
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: with nothing but you can see nothing but soybeans and
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: pine trees out there. At a stop sign, an unknown
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: man rushes up to her car, car jacks with the
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: children inside, and makes off in the cars, never seen
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: again anywhere. It's just such a load of bs. That's
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: a technical legal term, Steve Helen. Well, you know, and
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the thing that was crazy about that is that the
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: way she described it couldn't possibly have happened based on
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: the red light cycles and that type of thing. So
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: not only was the story wait, tell me that, tell
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: me that. Tell me that she said she was stopped
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: at a red light, and that while she was stopped
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: at that red light, this man comes and and you know,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: kidnaps her kids. The problem is, you can't be stopped
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: at that right That light only turned red if there
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: was traffic coming the other way, and there wasn't traffic
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: coming the other way, so she had a green light
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: there if she was even there in the first place.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: And once cops realized that, they thought, well, none of
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: this story. It didn't make sense in the first place,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: and now we can prove it. Steve Halling, Now I
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: know that you're of this fancy people magazine rider. But
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm just applying an all trial lawyer. Could
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: you explain that one more time about the red light? Sure,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: and you may be able to use this in the
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: future to you know, figure out if I can run
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: a grain or yellow light. You're telling me the light
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: didn't turn red unless cars were coming the other way. Well,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: you know these lights, you know, traffic lights often have
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: sensors that they stay green unless there's some reason for
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: them to turn red. And so in order for that
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: light to have turned red, there had to be cross
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: traffic coming the other way at the intersection, and there
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: wasn't She said that. No, there, you know, there was
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: nobody around, There were no witnesses. Nobody could see it.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Um And if she had been at a red light,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: by definition, there would be traffic coming the other way
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and they would have seen this alleged kidnapping with this
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: alleged black man who stole her kids, and nobody saw
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: it because quite frankly, it never happened. Well, I've said
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: it before and I'll say it against Steve Hill, and
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: you're brilliant, okay, Joseph Scott Morgan death saying investigator Joe Scott,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: you heard all that. Now, I know your mind is
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: just firing on all cylinders and a hundred miles a minute.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: At the time, when she was crying and I was
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: looking at her, there was something not right. Remember the
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: husband was just standing there and I couldn't put my
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: finger on it, but I believed her. And then when
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: her full story came at right, then I remember looking
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: at my child partner again and saying, I just want
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: to know her, and I'm on your side. I think
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: you're totally innocent, okay, because I think she's she's lying.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: She's totally lying about this. The whole story right does
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: not make sense. So just Scott, let's talk about the
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: discovery of the little boys bodies. I've been joking around
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: about my trial partner and and being a judge now,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: but what this is really about. Although Susan Smith is
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: living it up behind bars, having sex and love letters
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: and emails, and this is about three year old Michael
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: in fourteen month old Alex, let's talk about the discovery
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: of the body with this is the case is really about?
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: To hey with her? I want to tell absolutely, after
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: she had led led lad all of the investigators and
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: not just the the investigators, Nancy, the general public on
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: this wild goose chase. You remember this, you know, it's
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: just day after day after day of you know, uh,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: just carrying on on the news. She had the infamous
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: news conference, Please bring my babies back, all this sort
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: of thing. Everybody's out beating the bushes searching for these kids. Well,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the cops got onto this and they realized that somewhat right.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: It turns out, they found these poor little babies strapped
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: in their car seats almost sixty ft away from the
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: edge of the boat ramp out in the middle of
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: the lake, totally submerged and they had no way to
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: escape as their mother placed her car in gear and
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: allowed that car to go down the ramp, and you
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: could hear these babies screaming as they were restrained in
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the back seat. Can you imagine this, Mama, Mama, come
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: and help me, Come and help me. And how she
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: could stand on the shore and listen to this is
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: just absolutely beyond the pail. Let's talk a little bit
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: about what they went through for the moment, those moments
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: of terror. They sat there strapped in those seats, cars
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: filling up with water, windows are down, and suddenly they
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: had this this presence of mind to understand that Mom
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: is not gonna come to save us. Their little lungs
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: are filling up with water and they sit there strapping
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: these seats and they essentially drowned. It's a horrible way
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: to die, and to die completely hopeless, devoid of hope
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: that your mother, who is supposed to be taking care
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: of you, is ever going to come and save you.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: And that's the terror that's lost in all of this.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Uh you know it, You know all of this stuff
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: that that she's engaged in. It. She still has this
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: freedom even within the constraints of the correctional facility. And
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: to make it worse, the correctional facility personnel have been
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: facilitating some of this behavior. I want to go back
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: to the murder of the little boys. I'm tired of
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: thinking about Susan Smith getting it on with prison guards.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I want to go back to the little boys. I
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: was just thinking about this morning when I took the
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: children to school, and when I drove off, I always
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: had in my mind. Karen Hormon, you all are familiar
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: with the little boy that seemingly disappeared after his stepmother
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: dropped him off and he went into the school fair
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: science fair. I always wait. They don't know it, of course,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: I don't want them to know Mommy's a stalker. But
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I always wait and look in the rear VI mirror
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: and hold up traffic until I see them walk in.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: I wonder if she still thinks about them, you know,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Mary Ellen Hopkins, investigative reporter. We know the motive. We
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: know why she murdered her two little boys, aged three
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: and four months. What was the motive, Mary Ellen? Susan
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Smith was in her twenties and she was secretly dating
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: a man who didn't want children. Her decision was to
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: kill her two little boys. And like you said, this
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: whole story it was heartrenching at the time. She took
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: us through so many levels of emotions with her crying
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: and her stories and her on camera interviews. But it's
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: really all about these two sweet, innocent souls who lost
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: their life because Mommy that to date someone who didn't
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: like children. I'm going to listen one more time to
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Susan Smith begging for the return of her children. Hey,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, they've got people everywhere looking for him, and mean,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: you know you can hear the helicopters are there and um,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: but they haven't seen anything, and it's just it's crazy
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: and it's man since nine o'clock last night, you know.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: And and I really thought that when it got they
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: like they would find them. This in the hearty but
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I M done. Was just praying and just keeping my
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: faith that they're gonna be okay. But what did Susan
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Smith's husband think at the time? Did he have any
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: idea his wife was dating one of the richest guys
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: in town son? Did he even know? Did he suspect?
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I remember looking at him during all the press conferences
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: and the press and the media frenzy as it unfolded
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: during the search for the two little boys, and wondering
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: what was going through his mind. When you run your
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: own business, you know, time equals money. That's not just
• 16:10
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• 17:13
  Speaker 1: let's take a listen to what Susan Smith's husband said
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: at the time. So you realized in one fell swoop
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: that they have been killed, and Susan Smith, your wife,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: I've done the deed at once, just like that that?
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: What did you do? Gave up? Gave up? I ran first.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to run, and I ran. You ran
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: where shout? And he are? You ran out the door.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I had to go. I just had to go. Where'd
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: your run to? I don't know. I just ran. I
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: don't remember your street clothes. I just had to go.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: I just had to run. Did you go to the jail. No. No,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: When did you see her again? It was about a
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: month later after she had been arrested. What did she say, David?
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: She said she was sorry and we I mean most
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: that's what we talked about, was Michael and Alex. I
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: mean I did ask her why she did it? But
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: and what did she say? She didn't know? When you
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: look back, David, do you blame yourself? Do you think
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: there were indicators or red flags you should have seen
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: but didn't. No, I don't blame myself. I mean, Susan,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: you know, she was confident. She was, you know, in
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: sound minds, and it seems seemed to be Yeah. I mean,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: you know, in some ways, a lot of people want
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: to say she she had to be crazy, and I
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: think I want they say that figuratively speaking, but not legally.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: But not legally she was, you know, just recently out
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: to Alan? Do you joining me out of l A.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Susan Smith writes a letter in which she says, I'm
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: not a monster news flash, Yes you are. What else
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: did her let her say? Alan? It was a short
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: handwritten prison letter to a reporter in South Carolina, the
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: state newspaper. She She says, Not only is she not
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: a monster, she says, it's frustrating to say the least.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I am not a monster of the society thinks I am.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I'm far from it. Something went very wrong that night.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: I was not myself. I was a good mother and
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I love my boys. The thing that hurts me the
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: most is that people think I hurt my children in
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: order to be with a man. That is so far
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: from the truth. There was no motive, as it was
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: not even a planned event. I was not in my
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: right mind. So what hurts her the most is that
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: people think she did it for a love of hair,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: a sex of heir. So what people think of her
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: is what hurts her the most. Okay, Steve Helling, People
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Magazine investigative reporter, let's weigh in who is Susan Smith?
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Who is she? Because I think she some monster? Well,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: you know, if you listen to what the warden says,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: you know he said, she's just never been able to
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: turn the corner and become a productive member of society.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: And there are people in jail who make a complete
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: one eight and change their lives, and we all know
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: of stories like that, and unfortunately, Susan Smith seemed to
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: be one of them. You know, from all things that
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: she's doing, he hasn't shown any signs of rehabilitation. Okay,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: hold on, let me understand this. So there are multiple
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: sex affairs with prison guards. They have been criminally prosecuted
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: for that. There's even a ban on mail guards being
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: alone with her, which I think there should be. I
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: actually don't know that. I believe there should beat male
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: guards and a women's cee I, but that's a whole
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: another can of worms. But there is a ce I
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Correctional Institute ban on Susan Smith being alone with a
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: man in the entire facility. All right. I know she
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: does behind bars whatever she can get her mits on,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: including uh peel's and marijuana. And I really don't know
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: what else I know of those two. I know in
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: her mind, Joseph Scott Morgan that she believes she is
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: somehow the one that's been wronged, uh slandered and libeled
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: because people believe her motive for double murder of her
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: babies was to get this rich kid's son to marry her,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: which I still believe to this day. Joe Scott Well,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: I contend that there is a daddy out there who
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: is absent too, precious little babies that would probably beg
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: to differ on that topic. Don't you believe I think
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: that somebody else was done wrong? Uh, the world was
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: robbed of these two little lives, and she still got
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: her life, doesn't she. And she can be involved in
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: any kind of debauchery she chooses to be in. In
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: the correctional facility that she's in, these kids will never
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: have a shot. Father will never have an opportunity to
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: take care of those kids, has never had an opportunity
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: to take care of those kids. Grandparents have never been
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: with him. Um, and you know, and and and and
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: not just that, Let's let's look at a bigger, bigger
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: idea here. She tried to pin this on some random
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: African American male. She tried to say that this guy
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: that had carjacked her was a blackmail and it led
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: to outrage in the African American community and outrage on
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: my part as well, because of all the people she
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: could name, she blames an unknown African American male. You're
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: absolutely right, and it just you know, and it stirs
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the pot in that community, so that scar is left
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: and all because of her, her just her, you know,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I don't mean humorous. I don't know. I don't want
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: to use the word selfishness because it goes, it goes
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: beyond that. With this person. It's it's the single most
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: uh just self centered act that anyone could possibly commit.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Into my way of thinking, because at the time I
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: was working still as an investigator with the medical Examiner
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and we watched this case and it just
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: gave me a bad feeling from the beginning relative to
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: what she was saying, how she was reacting, and then
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: when it came out, I knew what the implications would be,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: particularly with her fingering, uh, someone else in the community
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: like this, and how she had led everyone astray in
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: this It's just absolutely hardbak. I'm interested in what she wrote.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Steve Helling joined me from People magazine, quote, something went
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: very wrong that night. I was not myself. But what
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: is that supposed to mean? Because I guarantee you, Steve Helling,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: if there had been any remote chance at a mental
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: defect defense, they would have done it. I mean, it
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: would have worked, right, you know? That to me is
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: just a cliche that people say, oh, I wasn't myself
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: when I did something horrible. Well, yeah, yeah, you were.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: You were yourself when you did it, and this might
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: be a part of yourself you don't like to think about.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: But you know, like you said, if there had been
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: a mental defect, if there had been an insanity defense,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: we would have seen that and they never would have worked.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: It would have worked if that, if that had been
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: for real, her story quickly fell apart and became unraveled.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: And there was no African American man at the red
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: the red light. Okay, that didn't happen. Um, Steve Helling
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: is explained to you exactly why we know that that's
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: not true. That's not how that particular red light worked.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: It was on a sensor. If a car or movement
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: was coming the other way, it would turn red. That
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: didn't happen. It was all a big lie. And now
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: she's living it up at Least Correctional Institute in Greenwood,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: South Carolina, drugs, sex, alleged self mutilation. I just keep
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: looking back at the picture of the little boys, Alan Duke.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Isn't it true? In the letter, she claims she was
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: really trying to kill herself, but whoop. See, somehow she
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: managed to murder her two boys instead, and then lie
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: about it. Well, yes, she does say that she planned suicide.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: She knew the truth would come out, she said, so
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: she lied because she didn't want to face the world
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: about what had really happened. I planned to kill myself
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: first and then lead a note telling what happened. I
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: don't believe I could face my family when the truth
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: was revealed. You know, she is coming up for parole,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: believe it or not, in just a few years. She
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: is coming up for parole. Think of all the lives
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: that she has ruined. She's ruined of course, her children's life,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: her husband's life, probably that guy she was dating his life,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: all of her relatives and family, the men that had
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: sex relationships with her behind bars now have convictions. I
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: don't know if you have any future in law enforcement
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: with a conviction of that sort, especially under your belt.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: And this lie Steve Helling People Magazine, that she planned
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: to kill herself first and leave a note. How was
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: that supposed to work out? Kill herself first when the
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: first thing she did was murder her children. She never
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: even tried to kill herself. That's the thing about Susan Smith.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Her stories never make a lot of sense. And you know,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: the bottom line is she had an estranged husband at
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: the time who would have been more than happy to
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: take care of these kids while she went off and
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: was with this other guy that you know, she could
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: have been the bad guy, but not a murderer. But
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: she chose not to do that. And so you know
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: her saying I wanted to kill myself. It doesn't make
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: any sense. It will never make any sense. Well, another
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: thing she said to Mary Ellen Hopkins, investigative reporter. She
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: also says she made up the lie about the unknown
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: man at the red lie in the car Jackie to
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: quote protect the boys loved ones, not to shield herself.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: What that doesn't even make sense, Maryelle. Now it doesn't.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: And that's the whole thing with this whole story. It's
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: always about her. She killed her two little boys, but
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: it's all about her. She's the one who's suffering. People
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: don't understand her. They you know, she was a good mother,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: she loved them. So it's never and it's never about them.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: It's always about her. She is always the victim. I
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: believe they call that a narcissist who thinks only of themselves,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: after the myth of narcissus who fell in love with
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: his own reflection in the water. Um. We also have
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: learned Steve Helen that she has pin pals and they
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: send her thousands of dollars behind bars. What about that,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Steve Hell Well, you know what, look at her recent
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: mugshot and look at the glamour that she has. I mean,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: she's wearing makeup, her hair. It looks terrific. She looks
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: way better than she looked in the nineties because she's
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: living a pretty good life behind bars. If you look
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: at all the things that she's doing, she's doing stuff
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: that you know, the rest of us don't do. So
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: I think that it's interesting to see her transformation and
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: watch her become this hardened criminal. Now. I don't know
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: how she can say that the other man, Tom Finley,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: was not the motive, because by almost all accounts, the
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: story really starts when she starts dating Tom Finley. They
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: have an affair and he actually breaks up. He breaks
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: up with her and in a letter he states he
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: does not want children. That's on October sevent On October,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: she drowns Michael and Alex. She eases off a leg
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: boat access rent, releases the emergency break and then tells
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: police she was carjacked by a man who drove off
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: with the boys. Then she and her husband infamously appear
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: on national TV where she cries and snots and begs
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: for the boys return. That's what happened. That's what happened.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: So how can she say now, Joe's of Scott Morgan
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: that was not in the motive. It was just a
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: couple of days after he says I'm breaking up with you.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I don't want children that pressto the children are gone.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: She can't. Uh, you know, she's she's trying to crawfish
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: on this thing. Uh. And I think that that goes
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: back to to your you know, your your earlier comment
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: about narcissism. Uh. With with this person, it's all it's
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: always going to change to suit her perception of reality.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: And uh, at the at the end of the day,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the reality is is
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: that we have too dead children who were specifically in
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: her care during this period of time, in the care
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: of the person that in this world, out of all
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: the people, it was the one person that was supposed
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: to guarantee their safety at all times. And you know, um,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: it just it. The dog doesn't hunt with me if
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: you if you catch my meaning, uh, she h all along.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: It seems like she's just kind of happy, actually goes
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: along trying to trying to justify her actions. And this
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: is continuing on in prison. As world, Steve Helling, it
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: won't be long before she is up for parole. Today.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Her boys would be three, just getting out of college
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: and probably going to grad school or starting their first job,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: and young men in the prime of their lives. That
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: was not to be Steve Helling, right. And you know,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: the thing is that I was afraid that she would
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: when parole comes, that you know, there would be a
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: chance of her getting parole, But her actions in jail
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: certainly make it look as though that's that's unlikely. And
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I hope that everybody involved realizes that she's exactly where
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: she needs to be. Right now, before we go any further,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Alan do what's the latest on the missing l s
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: U student Michael Nikolote. Michael Nikolotte Jr. Disappeared from his
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: l s U campus apartment in Baton Rouge, Louisiana on September.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: The Nicolott families concerned the campus police are treating the
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: twenty one year old is a voluntary runaway case. But
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: they say he would never leave, that he was, as
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: they say, straight as an arrow. They fear instead something
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: bad has happened to him. Michael was an r OTC student.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: He wanted to be a Marine Corps officer. You can
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: read details and see Michael's photo on our crime Online
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: dot com website. Anyone with information regarding this missing l
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: s U student please call l s U Police too
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: to five five seven eight three two three one. This
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: boy's family is begging for help. A white Chrysler le
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Baron pulls into the driveway of a South Florida home.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: A clown gets out holding balloons and flowers and marches
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: up to the front door. When Marlene war And opens
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: the door, pleasantly, surprised, reaches out for the flowers for
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: her instead of a beautiful bouquet of roses, she gets
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: a bullet to the face and dies. I mean, see, Grace,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: That's right, Marline Warren shot in the face by a clown.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: It's almost too bizarre to believe, but that is exactly
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: what happened. And now twenty seven years later and arrest
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: goes down amazing joining me, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic expert,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University, Mary Ellen Hopkins
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter, and of course Alan Duke joining
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: me out of l A. So to Mary Ellen Hopkins,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter, Mary Ellen, thank you for being with us.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Explained to me this arrest of a woman. A woman
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: is allegedly dressed as a clown, a killer clown, complete
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: with white face makeup, uh, an orange wig, an entire
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: clown outfit. And now, all these years later, a woman,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Sheila Keene Warren, is arrested for first degree murder and
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: the shooting death of Marlene Warren. What happened, well, Nancy,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: it was a love triangle murder. You had a husband,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: a lover, and an ex wife. Sheila Warren, the killer
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: shot Marlene Warren, the former wife, in the face at
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: her home in an upscale neighborhood in West Palm Beach, Florida.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: You know it's almost too much to take in. Uh,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: this is what we know. Sheila Keene Warren, now fifty
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: war years old, arrested on a charge of murder one
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: with the use of a firearm and the murder of
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Marlene Warren, the first wife of Michael Warren. Now at
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: the front door was a woman with brown eyes, carrying balloons,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: wearing a clown costume with an orange wig. May twenty six,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: people saw the white car pull up in the driveway
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: and the clown get out. The husband, Michael Warren, was
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: initially investigated. Friends and families said that you have been
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: having marital problems. But now, all these years later, a
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: killer clown female arrested for allegedly shooting dead a woman
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: at her front door carrying flowers and balloons over twenty
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: seven years ago. Thousands and thousands of man hours have
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: been sunk into the case over the years. Washington County
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Sheriffred Newman says that it was one of the strangest
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: cases he had ever seen. I'm looking at shots right now,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan joining me, death investigator and forensics professor.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at Michael Warren with his wife Marlene. At
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: the time, they look so happy to gather, but after
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: her murder, he seemingly disappears, drops off the map, only
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: to re emerge around two thousand and two to marry
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: his then mistress. They were having an affair at the
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: time his wife is murdered by a clown. It's it's
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: amazing how how these these cases will track off and
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: these odd, odd directions, and no one seems to pay
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: attention in the immediate and it takes all of these
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: years later for the truth to kind of rise to
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: the top in this particular case. Uh and uh, the
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: fact that they have resolved this case after this many
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: years is amazing. That's the reason they're called cold cases.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Most of the time, cold cases remain cold cases. You know,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at this picture of them, and I really
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: don't understand that. Mary Ellen Hopkins, investigative reporter. They seem
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: so happy at the time. What do we know about
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: their relationship? Well, there were rumors, Nancy, that the couple
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: was having some marital issues, but nothing was ever made
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: clear what was going on. There were also rumors that
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Michael Lauren was having an affair with shel Lauren. She
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: worked for him at at his business and they would
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: take long lunches together. So there was a lot of
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: undercurrent they're going on, but nothing that I guess anyone
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: could ever pinpoint. Let's go through the facts as we
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: know them out to Alan do. Let's analyze what we
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: know at the time. What did we learn at the
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: time regarding the shooting. It was eleven o'clock in the
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: morning in this really nice residential area. It's called the
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Aero Club Community. They've actually got a landing strip instead
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: of just to call the second this neighborhood and the
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: homes were like million dollar homes. So this clown knocks
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: on the door, pulls up in a Chrysler LeBaron that
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: doesn't have a license plate, carries a bouquet of flowers
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: and tuballoons, one of them with snow whites picture on it,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: so it looked like it was a fun gift that
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: was coming to the door. But instead when this woman
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: opened up the door, that's when she was killed. A
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: gun down and there were with us as the teenage
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: sons of the victim as well as friends were there
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: to see it, and nobody even knew it was why
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: are you telling me the sun The teenage the teenage
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: kids of the victim were there, That's what I'm saying.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: They saw their mom get killed. I didn't realize that part, yes,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: but they couldn't even tell if this clown was a
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: man or a woman. That's how bizarre the clown makeup was.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: It was Memorial Day weekend in the Palm Beach County
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: suburb of Wellington when this whole thing goes down and
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: immediately a massive investigation started. Um. When I'm looking at
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: the woman who has just been arrested all this time later,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: she's actually smiling. She's seemingly laughing in her mug shot.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I don't get it, josephs got Morgan. You and I've
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: seen a lot of crimes, but to smile in your
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: mug shot when you've just been charged with murder one.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Maybe she doesn't. Maybe she she's of the opinion that
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: that they're not going to be able to pin this
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: on her. Of course, uh she apparently likes clowns, so
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: maybe she's really happy. I don't know, but it is very,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: very bizarre, and you'll see people that react. You'll see
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: people that react to these traumatic, traumatic events like being
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: arrested many times, uh with with almost a flippant nature
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: about them. I don't know that they know what else
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: to do. Well, this is what I know about the husband.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: He has not been named a suspect, but I know
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: this about him. In uh a few years before this,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: he was sentenced to prison on forty three counts of
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: o'domino tampering, grand theft, racketeering. After digging done by investigations
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: on the murder, they found foul play and his car
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: rental agency. And that's according to Palm Beach Post. So
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: this guy is not lily white, his hands aren't totally clean,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: but he has never been roped in on his wife's murder.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Another thing, Alan, do about the facts. That's where I
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: always start with the timeline and the facts as you
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: know them. At the time of the murder, the clown
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: calmly turns around and walks back to the car. Yeah,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: this was obviously well thought out and and this killer,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: if it was this woman, was very calm, drove the
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: car to the airport and left the car there, which
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: later it was found at the Palm Beach International Airport Park.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Sort of to the just that this clown flew out
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: of town, but probably didn't. Interesting, So do you believe then,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Alan Duke, let's analyze the car. So the car is
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: left near the airport to give the suggestion the killer
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: flew out of two Yes, and it had no license plates.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: It was a Chrysler LeBaron, which basically for me as
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: a throwaway car. I mean I would leave that one behind.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: But um yeah, just no connection to her and the
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: car that they knew of. And so that was actually
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: a pretty well thought out crime. Let me think about that,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: the car left at the airport to give the appearance
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: the perp flew out of town. The fact that the
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: perp walked calmly back to the car after the shooting,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: no running, no nothing. This was clearly, in my mind,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: a planned out, intentional killing. Well it had to be,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: because you don't walk around in the clown outfit and
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: full on white clown makeup, the grease paint on your faces.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Had to be planned to shoot this particular person. There
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: was no theft, there was no sex attack, there was
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: no even not even a break in. This all went
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: down right at the front porch. So that leads me
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: to today, all these years past, there's never an arrest.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Can you even imagine how the children feel when their
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: mom is murdered and nothing ever comes of it. There's
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: never an arrest, There's just a long, long investigation that
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: seemingly fizzles. You grow up with your mom gone and
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: no justice. Until recently. This is what we've learned. Some
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: type of DNA, a newly developed DNA technique has been
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: used that was not available in the nineties when Mom
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: was murdered. I'm betting it was either nano enhancement, which
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: is a brand new DNA technique, or either Crisper, another
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: new DNA technique that was used. I'm wondering also where
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: they got the DNA, Joe Scott Morgan. Where did they
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: get it? They don't have the murder weapon, so they
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: didn't get it off the murder weapon. Was their DNA
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: on the flowers? Was there a thorn on a rose?
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Was there something on the balloon? Was there something in
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: the car? Where did they get the d NA? Joe Scott?
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Because all these years later, they still had the substance
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: from which the DNA was derived. But where did it
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: come from, Joe Scott? That's a great question, Nancy. And
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: this is this, This goes to the competency of the
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: investigators at the time that handle the case, because they
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: were able to preserve whatever this evidence that they had.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: They were able to preserve it after all these years.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Let's keep in mind that d n A the source
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: material for DNA is very very fragile, and the fact
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: that they were able to harvest this and then run
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: a profile, uh in order to facilitate this, this this
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: building of this evidence. We have principle in forensics, that's
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: that is stated. It is stated that every contact leaves
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: a trace. Now, just because we can't find it immediately
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean that it can't be found found down the road.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: And isn't it interesting that now, in the times in
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: which we live, we're finding more and more of these
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: cases that are being solved from the distant past. This
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: is just one more that we can chalk up. The
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: cold case was reopened in two thousand and fourteen when
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: new technology allowed prosecutors to retest DNA evidence. As of
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: right now, as of this moment, it has not been
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: revealed from where the DNA came, but we do know this.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: It clearly implicated the husband's mistress at the time, Sheila Keene,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: who years later he marries. She's Sheila Keane Warren, the
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: fifty four year old woman taken into custody. What do
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: you think about this? Mary Ellen Hopkins, Crime Stories investigative reporter,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Do you think they're going to try to get her
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: the defendant, Sheila Kane Warren, the so called other woman
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: back in the nineties, to turn state's evidence if there
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: is any against the victim's husband, now her husband. You know,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: the parents had the parents of the victim had always
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: suspected that the husband also had some kind of a
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: hand in it, especially when they found out years later
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: that he married the woman that killed his wife. So
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: they think there's a connection there. And a retired sheriffs
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: detective who spoke with the media so that they tried
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: so hard to they presented the case over and over
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: and every time they came forward that um, they would
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: tell them go back and get more. They need more.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: So now they have more. They have the d NA
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: you know what too. I just want to add in.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at the Sun Sentinel, and the questions remained
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: why investigators who have gathered a mountain of evidence were
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: not able to make an arrest, and among them are
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: employees from a store less than a mile from Keene
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Warren's home identified her as a woman who bought the
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: flowers and balloons about ninety minutes before the killing, and
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: if if he's involved, she with that smile on her
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: face when she in her muck shot. Maybe she will
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: turn evidence on him. Nancy, Let's listen to the police
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: press conference after Sheila Warren's arrest in Virginia this week.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: And Abington, Virginia woman has been arrested and charged with
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: a twenty seven year old capital murder case that originated
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: out of Palm Beach County Tolarna. The Worston County, Virginia
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office Criminal Investigative Division received information from the Palm
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Beach County Sheriff's Office that they had obtained information lead
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: king Sheila Keene Warren of Abington, Virginia to the homicide
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: of Marlene Warren and proximately five thirty this afternoon, members
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: of the Worceston count Viridge and the Sheriff's Office, along
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: with members of the US United States Marshal Service, Palm
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Beach County Sheriff's Office, and the Palm Beach State Attorney's Office,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: arrested fifty four year old Sheila Keene Warren. She's been
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: charged with first degree murder with the firearm of Marlene
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: and Warren. She's been transported to the Abington facility of
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: the Southwest Virginia Regional Jail in Abington, where she is
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: awaiting extradition back to Palm Beach County, Florida. The suspect
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: of the ARRESTI walked up to the front door with
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: the balloons um in her hand. Uh. The deceased victim
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: came to the front door and was shot. At that location.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Guys were standing by because right now I don't think
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: justice has been served. We now have finally an arrest
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: in the murder of this mom, this mom, Marlene Warren,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: who simply answers front door and is shot in the face.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: You know, it brings to mine the Buttafuco case where
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: she was shot that was by her husband's lover. Remember
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: this is ringing a bell to anybody. She lived to
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: tell the talk. Yeah, she lived to tell the tale.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: And so called Long Island Lolita. What wasn't that her Alan?
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: So this is not the first time that an assassin
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: has shown up with a gift. Okay, it goes all
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: the way back to the Trojan force, but in this
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: case it's flowers and balloons. We still don't know the
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: whole story, and that's what I'm waiting on. What I
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: fear is because this is a cold case and so
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: much time has passed, there may not be enough evidence,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: according to prosecutors to take it to trial. I disagree.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: I disagree. You can't fight with DNA. We're waiting to
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: see if any more arrests go down, if anyone else
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: knew about the murder before it occurred. But for now,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: we're waiting for justice to unfold. Nancy Grace Crime Stories,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend. Do you find yourself obsessing over
• 48:12
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• 48:15
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• 48:38
  Speaker 1: That's club dot crime con dot com.