Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / The Witch with Costume Designer, Linda Muir

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The Witch with Costume Designer, Linda Muir · The Art of Costume Podcast

• 0:06
  Hello, welcome to the Art Costume Podcast.
• 0:07
  I'm Liz with Joy Glass. And I'm Spencer Williams.
• 0:11
  How is spooky season treat in ya?
• 0:13
  Oh, it's going good. Lots of preparation.
• 0:16
  You know, we have lots of great stuff coming this month.
• 0:19
  Lots of spooky. So behind the scenes, Elizabeth
• 0:24
  and I have been working on Spooky Which sessions?
• 0:27
  And what exactly were the Puritans up to?
• 0:30
  What that is the theme we said this month is called the Season
• 0:35
  of the Witch, but really it's called what the hell were the
• 0:37
  Puritans up to? And it really starts with this
• 0:43
  film that we're about to get into a film that I OK, let's put
• 0:48
  this to bed. I've brought this up before on
• 0:51
  several podcasts now. I swore that Elizabeth and I and
• 0:57
  our friend of Visa went to the theaters and saw the witch
• 1:00
  together. Elizabeth, now that you have
• 1:03
  seen it again, am I wrong? My very first viewing of The
• 1:09
  Witch was last night in my bed. I do like remember you wanting
• 1:17
  us all to go see it and I, I don't remember why I didn't go
• 1:21
  see it, but I was like, no and I didn't.
• 1:24
  I will actually take this as AL then, and I believe you, but
• 1:29
  thank you. We sat down, we watched it, and
• 1:32
  now here we are. So I believe you.
• 1:35
  But before we do, we actually have an incredible guest waiting
• 1:39
  for us. So let's not waste any time.
• 1:42
  I'm very excited for this conversation.
• 1:44
  Why don't I start off with a summary please?
• 1:49
  Well, this week we are watching The Witch, which was directed by
• 1:54
  Robert Eggers, someone who is actually a fan favorite at this
• 1:59
  podcast as it seems. Yes.
• 2:01
  In 1630, New England panic and despair envelops a farmer, his
• 2:07
  wife and their children when youngest son Samuel suddenly
• 2:11
  vanishes. The family blames Thomason, the
• 2:15
  oldest daughter who was watching the boy at the time of his
• 2:17
  disappearance. With suspicion and paranoia
• 2:20
  mounting, Twin siblings Mercy and Jonas suspect Thomason of
• 2:24
  witchcraft testing the clans faith, loyalty and love to one
• 2:29
  another, and that is the witch. You haven't seen the Witch.
• 2:33
  Go watch it. It's a It's a good one.
• 2:35
  That's fine. You won't regret it.
• 2:36
  It's speaking, it's artsy, it's deep, it's it's all the things.
• 2:43
  And one of the things it definitely is, is a film filled
• 2:48
  with incredible costumes. So let's meet our costume
• 2:52
  designer, Linda Meer. You will know Linda's work from
• 2:59
  the Lighthouse The Northman, which we did an episode on about
• 3:04
  year and a half two years ago it.
• 3:06
  Was a good one. It was a great one and you will
• 3:10
  probably know one of her other films as well because Linda has
• 3:14
  been in the industry since 1987 and has a long resume of
• 3:19
  excellent work to her name, including her upcoming film
• 3:25
  Nosferatu coming out December 25th.
• 3:29
  I can't wait for that. I mean, sounds like Bill
• 3:32
  Skarsgard is playing a titular character.
• 3:35
  So we all know that's going to be a banger.
• 3:40
  Well, Elizabeth, I'm very excited to say that costume
• 3:44
  designer Linda Muir is here with us.
• 3:48
  I'm so excited. I feel like, you know, it's been
• 3:52
  a it's been a little while since this film came out and it was
• 3:55
  such a fun rewatch. And then we just have lots of
• 3:58
  questions. So on the other end of this
• 4:01
  break, we're going to talk to the one, the only costume
• 4:05
  designer, Linda Muir. Hi, I'm Dan, who does all the
• 4:12
  magic behind the scenes. I wanted to say thank you.
• 4:15
  And if you want to support the show even farther, go to
• 4:18
  tpublic.com/user slash the Art of Costume where you can buy a
• 4:24
  couple variations of our logo on T-shirts, mugs and stickers.
• 4:30
  Also, be sure to leave a like comment and subscribe.
• 4:33
  And if you're an audio listener, leave us a five Star review and
• 4:37
  Apple podcast. Now back to the show.
• 4:46
  All right, Costa nerds, I am so excited to welcome our first
• 4:50
  guest of the season of the Witch, the one and only costume
• 4:54
  designer, Linda Muir. Hi, Linda.
• 4:56
  How are you? Hello, Spencer.
• 4:58
  Hello, Elizabeth. I'm.
• 5:00
  I'm doing very well. Thank you.
• 5:02
  Yeah, we're we're so excited to talk to you.
• 5:04
  I'm such a big fan of The Witch, but before we get into the film,
• 5:09
  I actually want to talk to you about working with Robert
• 5:12
  Eggers, the director. The Witch was actually his first
• 5:16
  feature film and I found it really amazing.
• 5:19
  I can't think of another costume designer who's done with this.
• 5:22
  You've worked with Robert on all of his films going forward, all
• 5:26
  his feature films, The Witch, The Lighthouse, The Northmen,
• 5:30
  for which Elizabeth and I actually did a podcast episode
• 5:32
  about, and the upcoming Nosferatu, which I'm very
• 5:36
  excited for. So what is it about your
• 5:39
  collaboration that contributes to the success of each project,
• 5:42
  and how has your working relationship evolved over the
• 5:46
  years? Initially that and yes, this was
• 5:49
  Robert's first film. He had been working on trying to
• 5:54
  have it produced for I think about four or five years prior
• 5:57
  to the production coming to Canada, which is where I met
• 6:01
  Robert in Toronto. He's very careful about
• 6:05
  interviewing. I interviewed with him twice and
• 6:09
  I think it was perhaps the fact that both of us, both Robert and
• 6:13
  I have a, a background in theatre that maybe, you know,
• 6:17
  was one of the elements that he felt really comfortable with.
• 6:22
  All of his collaborators, actually, Craig Lathrop, Jaron,
• 6:26
  his DP, Louise Ford, his editor, you know, and I think probably
• 6:32
  from the Northman onward, his continuity person, Julie Watt,
• 6:38
  we've all sort of become a family of sorts.
• 6:42
  And I think often about, you know, why is it that when Robert
• 6:48
  and I work together, it's so much fun and it's so satisfying.
• 6:52
  And, you know, aside from the fact that he, as a director
• 6:55
  writer, really does protect his collaborators, he guards
• 7:00
  against, you know, sort of rash decisions or cuts that are
• 7:04
  unnecessary or, you know, including things that aren't,
• 7:07
  you know, that are going to cost too much and that will take away
• 7:10
  from production values and other areas.
• 7:13
  But in addition to all of that, you know, I think that one thing
• 7:16
  that I, I am aware the expression of Labor, of love,
• 7:20
  you know, comes up frequently in discussing, you know, my working
• 7:24
  relationship with Robert. And it's not simply the the
• 7:27
  human being Robert who is lovely.
• 7:29
  It's also the, the things that we love, you know, the things
• 7:32
  that we respect. And he has a devotion to
• 7:37
  research. He has a notion about
• 7:39
  authenticity. And those are things that I hold
• 7:42
  very near and dear to me. And I think we both feel that in
• 7:47
  the case of scripts, you know, fiction, that is the, the
• 7:51
  stories are so outlandish. I mean, particularly in Osvratu,
• 7:55
  for instance, and the Witch also, you know, when it's when
• 7:58
  the visuals are grounded in authentic looking sets,
• 8:04
  costumes, props, then for both he and I, it and, and I think as
• 8:09
  other collaborators, you know, the experience seems to be much
• 8:13
  more frightening than if what you're looking at in terms of
• 8:17
  sets and costumes are imaginary, you know, and, and there's a
• 8:20
  place for that for sure in in costume design.
• 8:24
  But that I think is one of the satisfying aspects of working
• 8:29
  with Robert that he appreciates that and understands it.
• 8:32
  You know he gets it. I love that.
• 8:34
  Clearly between the two of you, there's a huge, you know, love
• 8:38
  for the details, which, you know, we've talked about quite a
• 8:40
  bit on this podcast, especially the Northman.
• 8:42
  I know Elizabeth and I were really in love with that film
• 8:45
  and all the small little details that you could see that, you
• 8:47
  know, only had close-ups for a minute, like the Bjork
• 8:50
  character. I remember I was talking about
• 8:52
  that look so much and the witch, I mean, it's just chock full of
• 8:57
  detail. You clearly really got into your
• 9:00
  research with the story taking place in the 1630s.
• 9:04
  It's only seconds in the film and you can just see the
• 9:09
  research right there for The Witch, including silhouettes,
• 9:14
  fabrics, the historical details. Can you talk about the research
• 9:18
  process and how it influenced your custom design choices?
• 9:22
  Yes, absolutely. You know, I think that with each
• 9:25
  film, the beginning of prep, actually a good portion of prep
• 9:30
  is all about the research. It's about asking questions.
• 9:35
  It's about asking Robert why this why that one book, one
• 9:39
  article will lead to another will lead to another.
• 9:42
  And, and the deeper I get into the research, the more I, I
• 9:46
  discover and, you know, then we start to have this kind of
• 9:49
  exciting back and forth. And, and I remember, for
• 9:54
  instance, in researching the witch, there was a, a, a really,
• 10:00
  a couple of really interesting things that that popped up.
• 10:02
  But one was the use of baptismal clothes at the period, and they
• 10:08
  were often red and particularly for families that, you know,
• 10:12
  could afford it. And so that was one of the
• 10:15
  things that I said to Robert, you know, we are our palate is
• 10:18
  so soft and natural and organic. And that was definitely what he
• 10:26
  was striving for with pops of red that were indicators,
• 10:30
  placeholders. This is, you know, kind of a
• 10:33
  pointing toward what's coming further down the road like the
• 10:37
  witch. The, the spot that that ended up
• 10:43
  being appropriate for was in the Raven scene where the Raven is,
• 10:48
  is, you know, supposed to be Samuel and, and Catherine is
• 10:53
  holding what she, what she imagines, believes to Samuel,
• 10:58
  when in fact it's a Raven pecking at her breast.
• 11:01
  And so, you know, the blood of the breast, the the, you know,
• 11:04
  just the red colour and, and, you know, kind of indicating the
• 11:07
  witch that we've seen running through the woods and beckoning
• 11:12
  Caleb. I think at that point the
• 11:14
  research kind of offers these sorts of tickets and, you know,
• 11:19
  you make notes of them, you think of them, they go into your
• 11:22
  imagination. So, you know, getting back to
• 11:25
  the beginning of prep, I think it's really important at least
• 11:29
  for me to read and to look at as many images as possible.
• 11:33
  In the case of the which it was woodcuts, statues, paintings,
• 11:38
  you know, there really obviously weren't any photographs or
• 11:41
  anything, you know, kind of detailed and put as much into my
• 11:47
  mind and heart and imagination. And then confer with Robert, who
• 11:51
  also has spent, you know, his, he he for each of the projects
• 11:56
  does a huge amount of research and he uses that to inform his
• 12:02
  writing, you know, in, in, in the script.
• 12:05
  So we know, we, we kind of then start to pick through what, what
• 12:11
  different things can we apply to each of the characters, you
• 12:15
  know, in terms of clothing that will differentiate each
• 12:20
  character, you know, one from another color, texture that that
• 12:24
  comes in later. You know, usually I sketch in
• 12:28
  pencil and then I do watercolors when I know what I'm thinking is
• 12:35
  kind of appropriate. Getting into the color a little
• 12:39
  bit more, as you said, the film uses color very sparingly and
• 12:44
  purposefully. How did that work with the
• 12:47
  overall muted color palette, and what inspired the different
• 12:51
  choices of colors you decided to use?
• 12:54
  Well, at the period there were no, there were, there were only
• 12:58
  plant based dyes. So it's seeds, you know, leaves,
• 13:03
  nuts, bark, whatever. And each of those plants render
• 13:08
  either alone or in combination a really muted, it takes a lot of
• 13:15
  dye, it takes a lot of plant material to to achieve, you
• 13:18
  know, rich, rich, full colors. And you know, you might see that
• 13:23
  with royalty or you might see that with a much more elevated,
• 13:29
  you know, family and also plant based dyes fade in sunlight,
• 13:35
  even even when they're fixed. And so a combination of not
• 13:41
  being able to achieve a really deep, deep color initially,
• 13:45
  except the red, which is, you know, meant to be a little
• 13:48
  fantastical anyway. It's not meant to be realistic.
• 13:51
  So that is kind of a starting point.
• 13:53
  And also, I think that I remember being quite surprised.
• 13:58
  It's sort of similar actually to, you know, we always imagine
• 14:01
  Greek like the Parthenon and we imagine Greek buildings being
• 14:05
  the stark white marble when in fact they were, you know, in
• 14:09
  reality very colorful. And it's similar with Puritan
• 14:13
  clothing. I think perhaps because of black
• 14:16
  and white etchings and because of maybe film and theatre
• 14:20
  renderings like The Crucible or whatever, you know, we tend to
• 14:24
  think of of without doing much research, we tend to think of
• 14:28
  Puritans as being very sombre, very black, white details, you
• 14:33
  know, white collars, quaffs, that sort of thing.
• 14:36
  But in fact, they were, you know, fairly colorful.
• 14:39
  And early on in the prep process, I went to Plymouth
• 14:44
  Plantation with Robert and our production designer, Craig
• 14:48
  Lathrop, and at Plymouth Plantation, which is just South
• 14:52
  of Plymouth Rock. And if, if, if you've not been,
• 14:55
  it's really fascinating because it is in the summertime, I think
• 14:59
  spring through fall, there are re enactors that you know, and,
• 15:04
  and actually I, I was in the, in the prep period of the witch and
• 15:10
  also the Northmen. Hats off to re enactors.
• 15:13
  Some of them are extraordinary in the lengths that they go to,
• 15:18
  you know, in recreating these things.
• 15:20
  But at Plymouth Plantation, there was a wonderful woman,
• 15:24
  Denise Picay, I think her name was, and she is in charge of, or
• 15:29
  was in charge. I, I have no idea if she's still
• 15:31
  there, but she was in charge of all of the costuming for the
• 15:34
  reenactors. I don't think they're called
• 15:36
  reenactors, though. I think they're called something
• 15:38
  else there. But anyway, and I was fascinated
• 15:42
  just by how cheerful, you know, a lot of the the clothing was
• 15:46
  when you, you know, sort of think of of their lifestyle and
• 15:50
  everything that they had given up in most cases, if they're
• 15:53
  separatists and they moved from, you know, England to frontier
• 15:58
  America, it's pretty crazy. So, you know, the the color
• 16:03
  choices were based on reality, you know, based on what was at
• 16:09
  hand. And then in terms of fabrics,
• 16:12
  you know, cotton wasn't a thing at the period.
• 16:14
  So everything is either linen or wool.
• 16:17
  And what was really fabulous and fascinating was on set with all
• 16:21
  of the actors dressed in their many, many layers of linen and
• 16:24
  wool. You know, we'd run in with snow
• 16:27
  goose parkas and say, you know, would you like a parka?
• 16:30
  And they're not toasty, you know?
• 16:34
  And meanwhile, the crew is, you know, sort of shivering in early
• 16:37
  spring weather. They're like, Linda, we're
• 16:40
  wearing 100 layers as these Puritan children.
• 16:47
  That's so funny. And I, yeah, that really kind of
• 16:49
  blew my mind that, you know, these plant dies.
• 16:53
  It's not what we think of today. I mean, it's almost like they're
• 16:56
  these from these dyes. They're getting the essence of
• 16:58
  color throughout their costumes. Yes, and to and and to be clear,
• 17:04
  I'm not saying that the costumes are in the witch are plant dyed.
• 17:09
  I found fabrics that replicated. We certainly did not have the
• 17:14
  budget to start with with you know a blank canvas.
• 17:18
  That certainly has been the case since The Witch.
• 17:23
  You know, each of the budgets of each of the films that Robert
• 17:25
  has done subsequently have have been, you know, tenable.
• 17:32
  Which budget was minuscule? Selling corn and stuff to get
• 17:37
  costume budget it's. Not nice.
• 17:39
  So, you know, it's not that, that what you see on the screen
• 17:42
  are plant based dyed fabrics, but they replicate that or
• 17:48
  they're natural, you know, they're, they're wool or linen
• 17:51
  that is undyed. And that was a, a huge thing
• 17:54
  too. So, and always, you know,
• 17:57
  working, I, I, I start when I'm in prep with, with the script
• 18:01
  and I do massive charts. You know, the Northman, I think
• 18:05
  it was 8 feet long and four feet wide.
• 18:07
  The which was probably about the same.
• 18:10
  And each of the scenes is, is, you know, I draw it up like a
• 18:15
  grid and the scenes go along, one along the bottom and the
• 18:18
  characters go along the side. And then, you know, at any point
• 18:21
  in the script, I can move my two fingers together and see who's
• 18:25
  in that scene. What have they been wearing up
• 18:27
  to that point? You know, what is the
• 18:30
  temperature of the overall script at this point?
• 18:33
  You know what, what's the direction that we're going in?
• 18:36
  What do I want to kind of accent, What do I want to bring
• 18:40
  along? What do I want to suppress?
• 18:43
  You know, so it, it's not simply, you know, doing sketches
• 18:48
  and then creating costumes and and then that's it.
• 18:51
  There's a lot of thought that goes into a lot of questions
• 18:54
  with Robert and he's thought these things through.
• 18:56
  And if he hasn't, you know, he takes the time to really think
• 19:00
  it through and and think about, you know, what are the
• 19:03
  ramifications of this choice or that choice.
• 19:05
  Yeah, we'll, we're definitely going to come back to this topic
• 19:08
  too, when we talk about continuity and the aging and
• 19:10
  dying, which I'm very excited to talk about.
• 19:13
  But first, I mean, I think we need to talk about one of our
• 19:17
  stars, Miss Anya Taylor Joy, who this was her first major motion
• 19:22
  picture, which is pretty crazy. So before we get into Thomason,
• 19:26
  I mean, working with the the young actress and you, you must
• 19:29
  have known she was going to be this huge star one day.
• 19:32
  I mean, she's now in everything. Well, I'd be lying if I said
• 19:36
  yes, that was absolutely clear that, you know, she a mega star.
• 19:40
  I mean, she's she's fabulous. She was a very successful young
• 19:44
  model at the time. And so she certainly, you know,
• 19:48
  was aware of, you know, the effect on camera, which was was
• 19:52
  great. You know, it's it it's a was a
• 19:56
  very is a very well upsetting is is, you know, minimal.
• 20:03
  You know, emotional ride that she was on for this film and,
• 20:07
  you know, given that she was so young and and not experienced
• 20:12
  in, you know, film acting, I she was extraordinary.
• 20:16
  She's lovely. She's she you know, she
• 20:18
  continued to be lovely in in each film.
• 20:21
  You know, in the Northmen, conditions on the Northmen were
• 20:25
  really harsh and conditions on the which were really harsh.
• 20:29
  And you know, I mean she just as a, as they say, a trooper.
• 20:32
  Yeah, I, I can't imagine the emotional toll these films took
• 20:36
  on, you know, her and also the crew and you.
• 20:39
  I mean, I have to imagine. It's very cold.
• 20:41
  Yeah, you know, standing. I've had this experience with
• 20:45
  each of Robert's films in different ways.
• 20:48
  And you know, you're standing on set and for whatever combination
• 20:54
  of magical reasons, it's like being hauled back in time.
• 20:59
  And on the which I remember very clearly inside the in the
• 21:05
  homestead, inside the home, standing, obviously it was very
• 21:09
  small and, you know, as as little as few crew as possible.
• 21:14
  And it was the dinner scene at the table with William with the
• 21:18
  his napkin over his shoulder and, you know, each of them
• 21:22
  passing out one, what little scrap of rotten head they had.
• 21:28
  And I remember being, you know, just sort of back up against one
• 21:33
  of the walls. And, and it was late spring in
• 21:38
  Ontario, so north of Toronto, you know, so there's still snow
• 21:41
  in the along the tree lines and umm, and they had a lot of night
• 21:46
  shooting. And so, you know, it was not
• 21:49
  warm. And I remember thinking, how did
• 21:52
  anyone survive? You know, how really did anyone
• 21:57
  survive, given how much you need to know?
• 22:02
  Yeah, I mean, just the harsh environment.
• 22:05
  I mean, Elizabeth and I, you know, this entire month we're
• 22:07
  doing episodes about, you know, witches and Puritan cultures.
• 22:11
  And we were just having a conversation behind the scenes
• 22:13
  where like, I don't know how anyone did this because it's
• 22:16
  just like, I just can't imagine. It's all in the end so special
• 22:22
  that, you know, you just kind of go whatever.
• 22:24
  It's part of the, it's part of the deal.
• 22:26
  Yeah, it's, it's it's part of the deal.
• 22:28
  Maybe we could suggest on this podcast, Hey, Robert, maybe the
• 22:30
  next one we could do like one in Hawaii and then we could get
• 22:33
  back to like the dark villages and the forests.
• 22:37
  Cause knows Prachu doesn't look very warm either, but that's
• 22:39
  neither here nor there. But what was a little warm
• 22:44
  actually was Thomason's pink hue to her costumes.
• 22:48
  And I just sing it every time. You know, it's very subtle.
• 22:51
  But I couldn't help but thinking, you know, maybe it
• 22:53
  symbolized something a little bit deeper perhaps, or innocence
• 22:57
  or maybe a connection to something a little bit more
• 22:59
  sinister. I just, I could tell that you
• 23:01
  were kind of giving us a little bit of a sign with that pink
• 23:04
  hue. Yeah, I mean, I, I think that
• 23:07
  this predates pink is for girls, blue is for boys.
• 23:12
  So I felt, you know, safe in, in, you know, that realm.
• 23:17
  I think that it definitely has a blush, it has a youth, it has a
• 23:22
  naivete and it also pink, you know, can can quite easily
• 23:26
  become red. That's a good one.
• 23:29
  You know, so that's definitely there in the, you know, thought
• 23:34
  process. I didn't even think of that.
• 23:35
  Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it is really,
• 23:42
  really cute. But now that you say it is kind
• 23:45
  of just showing like this slow transition into madness,
• 23:47
  especially when we see her covered in blood and then, you
• 23:50
  know, that's a good one. I never thought of that one.
• 23:56
  What? In our research of the Witch, we
• 24:00
  learned that at least at one point, you considered Williams
• 24:04
  leather jerkin to be one of your favorite costumes.
• 24:08
  And I have to say, it is pretty spectacular.
• 24:13
  Yeah. I mean, I think it's a very
• 24:14
  special piece. He doesn't wear it, you know,
• 24:16
  necessarily throughout the whole film.
• 24:18
  He it, it's sort of, you know, it isn't used in specific scenes
• 24:22
  for specific reasons. I think also maybe that was a
• 24:28
  preference early on. I think now when I look at the
• 24:31
  sketches and when I look at the film and when I think about the
• 24:34
  characters, I think I'm perhaps more drawn to Catherine and
• 24:40
  Caleb. Yeah.
• 24:44
  Well, you know it changes. Ten years later.
• 24:49
  We'll check in with you in another 10 and see.
• 24:51
  Maybe it'll be the witch costume.
• 24:52
  You know it's. Not to say that, you know, it's
• 24:54
  not to say that I don't love the jerk and I do, but you know, I
• 24:58
  mean, I mean, you know, it could also be influenced by the divine
• 25:02
  Kate Dickey. You know, I've worked with her
• 25:04
  since the witch also on the Northman, and she is just truly
• 25:08
  such a spectacular actress. You know, I mean, you know,
• 25:12
  maybe that's influenced it and and you know, Caleb, I also, I
• 25:17
  really like the character and Harvey was pretty great, so.
• 25:21
  Well, before we get into the twins, which I'm going to touch
• 25:24
  on in a minute, what do you feel like the cast was pretty
• 25:26
  collaborative in a costume process, or were you kind of
• 25:29
  feeling like explain to them like this is what you would
• 25:31
  typically wear? Like what did that process look
• 25:34
  like? Well, you know, the, the entire
• 25:36
  cast came from the UK and with the exception of Black Phillip
• 25:43
  and, and, and the people from the Meetinghouse.
• 25:46
  But they, you know, and I prepped in Toronto because I
• 25:52
  wanted to use the cutter and seamstresses that I am familiar
• 25:57
  with the trust and have have a, you know, long standing working
• 26:01
  relationship with. But the film was being prepped
• 26:05
  in, you know, about 5 hours north of Toronto.
• 26:09
  And so we did a lot of Robert and I did a lot of Skype calls.
• 26:13
  And when Robert was still doing casting in the UK, we would do
• 26:18
  Skype calls from the UK. I'd get him to go to one costume
• 26:21
  house or another. And I'd say, have a look at
• 26:23
  this, have a look at that, you know, and, and we would, we
• 26:26
  would agree that it wasn't appropriate and we'd have to
• 26:29
  make it. And certainly on the Northman,
• 26:31
  for instance, or, or in Ospolatu, there was much more
• 26:34
  ongoing production of costumes. And so the actors were, you
• 26:40
  know, I drew them into the in the process much more because
• 26:42
  they were present. But with the Witch, because of
• 26:47
  the budget and because of the story, Robert and I made a a
• 26:50
  decision very early on that each of the characters would really
• 26:55
  have one basic costume and then with add-ons like coats or all
• 27:01
  the capes or jerkins or whatever.
• 27:04
  And so, you know, there wasn't really the same kind of need for
• 27:08
  the actor involvement in that, you know, you're going to change
• 27:12
  your costume now because of this reason or, you know, and I'll
• 27:16
  quote the distance. And because it was a short prep
• 27:19
  period, I had conversations via e-mail with Anya and with Kate
• 27:26
  and Ralph because they were all established, you know, kind of
• 27:31
  more mature actors. The the not with Lucas and
• 27:35
  Ellie's parents or with Harvey, They didn't really know anything
• 27:39
  until they arrived and we did the fittings in Toronto.
• 27:42
  Robert was still in Mattawa, north of Toronto, so we did
• 27:47
  Skype, check insurance and tons of photographs.
• 27:52
  That certainly wasn't the case with any of the other films, you
• 27:55
  know. You know, I continue with the
• 27:57
  Lighthouse. I prepped in Toronto, but Robert
• 27:59
  came for the fittings and for the Northmen.
• 28:03
  We were all together in Belfast, so you know, ongoing and there
• 28:08
  were many, many, many costumes. I think of Nicole.
• 28:12
  I did a whole kind of spread for her and so you know it, it
• 28:16
  depends on the film, but for The Witch it was much more.
• 28:20
  The actors arrive give them the download of period and and
• 28:25
  Robert also was having throughout, you know, lengthy
• 28:29
  conversations either in person or on the phone or e-mail with
• 28:34
  with the with the adult actors, you know, so there was never the
• 28:39
  feeling that they were being forced to wear something that
• 28:42
  was inappropriate. I think au contraire, they felt
• 28:45
  transformed. Certainly, you know, we the
• 28:48
  first fittings were not as as finished as when they arrived on
• 28:52
  set. And then they were finished and
• 28:53
  they were aged and distressed and there was a definite Oh my
• 28:58
  God, this is just feels fabulous.
• 29:01
  You know, to be to be on the farm and to be in these costumes
• 29:04
  and to see the animals and you know, everything else, it was
• 29:08
  magical. Sounds like between you and
• 29:10
  Robert, you guys tend to keep each other busy on these
• 29:13
  projects. He's going to costume houses,
• 29:15
  you're making big old scripts and whatnot.
• 29:18
  It sounds like a Speaking of a lot of work, we have to talk
• 29:23
  about the twins, Jonas and Mercy.
• 29:26
  So while they are adorable, Elizabeth and I were texting
• 29:29
  while watching this. So we both agreed we don't get
• 29:32
  how William and Kate continue to have more kids after these two
• 29:36
  things. They're.
• 29:36
  So crazy. But that being said, I was
• 29:39
  watching the Blu-ray bonus features and these are two very
• 29:42
  professional young actors at the time, so I have to give them
• 29:45
  their props. So what was it like?
• 29:48
  You kind of touched on it a little bit, but you know,
• 29:49
  designing costumes for these two very young actors at the time.
• 29:53
  It sounds like you're working with parents and whatnot.
• 29:56
  Just curious on how that looked. Yeah, they, they, they weren't
• 29:59
  really involved in the design process, but certainly the
• 30:01
  fitting process was novel. I remember Lucas was crawling
• 30:06
  around acting like Black Phillip and, and Ellie, I think at one
• 30:10
  point joined him. And then I thought, OK, so
• 30:14
  apparent, what would I do? So I kind of picked up Lucas and
• 30:17
  I said, Lucas, you're a mannequin.
• 30:20
  You don't move until I tell you you can move.
• 30:22
  And he totally played along and he was like a little mannequin.
• 30:26
  And we did the fitting, and then he continued to be, you know,
• 30:29
  back on his hands and knees, as, you know, the goat.
• 30:32
  So yeah, it's. It could be a little intense,
• 30:37
  but you know, they were amazing and and Robert consciously
• 30:41
  protected them from what the storyline realities were.
• 30:45
  They didn't. They didn't know that they were,
• 30:48
  you know, taken away by witch and pummeled into some kind of
• 30:53
  body. I'm still trying to figure that
• 30:56
  out. But, you know, the sketches were
• 31:00
  all up in the in the costume truck.
• 31:02
  And so when they come clamoring up the steps and, you know, hi,
• 31:05
  lady, what are you doing? You know, and they'd go to the
• 31:07
  back of the truck and see these pictures of sketches of the
• 31:10
  witches and all of the reference material.
• 31:13
  You know, we'd have to kind of say, yeah, isn't that?
• 31:17
  Crazy. Just don't think about it guys,
• 31:23
  Watch it in. 10 years. Exactly.
• 31:26
  But then you know, Ellie was amazing.
• 31:27
  She was, you know, very mature for her age.
• 31:32
  And you know, they they listen to what Robert, what the
• 31:35
  direction was and you know, they ran with it so.
• 31:39
  Wow, that's that's amazing. And also, Ralph and and Kate
• 31:43
  were incredible with them. And Anya, you know, all of the
• 31:46
  adult actors and, and I would say, you know, the adult crew as
• 31:50
  well were, were very cognizant of, of their age and tried not
• 31:57
  to have them impacted by, you know, some of the darker
• 32:01
  storylines. Yeah, I mean, it's a very
• 32:04
  intimate and close story too. So I mean, you only have this
• 32:07
  really core group of actors. So they're they're supporting
• 32:10
  each other. So that's really good to hear.
• 32:12
  Going back a little bit to the very opening scene in the
• 32:17
  meetinghouse, there are so many background actors.
• 32:21
  And how did you approach designing costumes for such a
• 32:25
  large group, especially with, you know, you need to reflect
• 32:29
  the Puritan eras like religious mannerisms?
• 32:33
  In, in terms of the prep, it was really me for most of the prep
• 32:38
  by myself with Robert elsewhere. And then I had an assistant,
• 32:42
  Charlene Seniak, who join me late and prep and and
• 32:46
  concentrated on finding shoes, finding, you know, ordering
• 32:50
  linen tape. And she also was great in terms
• 32:55
  of fabricating a lot of the background quaffs and aprons and
• 33:00
  falling bands and and collars for the crowd scene in in the
• 33:05
  meetinghouse. So the meetinghouse was, you
• 33:09
  know, a necessary, you know, to had they made huge demands on
• 33:15
  the budget because of the numbers.
• 33:17
  And so there were certain things that Robert and I concentrated
• 33:22
  on to try and minimize the amount of money that we had to
• 33:26
  spend on those costumes so that they we couldn't afford to make.
• 33:31
  We made everything for the family and for the two witches
• 33:35
  and for Black Philip. But the meetinghouse costumes
• 33:40
  ended up being rentals from a great costume house in in Rome
• 33:45
  called Turelli, and they were augmented by a Canadian costume
• 33:50
  house from Montreal. And then I think we also did
• 33:57
  hats from someplace else. But we did not certainly did not
• 34:00
  have enough budget to do, for instance, footwear for everyone.
• 34:04
  So we did a kind of, you know, novel experiment where Jaron set
• 34:11
  up tape lines and, and we figured out along with Craig
• 34:15
  Lathrop, the production designer, what would we actually
• 34:18
  see in the meetinghouse. And so we, we discovered that we
• 34:23
  actually did not see very many feet.
• 34:25
  So we did not rent shoes. I did not rent shoes for all of
• 34:28
  the actors because that would have been problematic anyway,
• 34:31
  you know, just finding that the appropriate silhouette.
• 34:34
  So, you know, things like that. Decisions like that are very
• 34:38
  rare. You know, to have that kind of
• 34:41
  cooperation is very rare. So going from that, which is the
• 34:46
  most, you know, kind of mundane and boring aspect of costuming,
• 34:50
  boring in that you have to make that decision.
• 34:52
  You know, you have to you have to present that decision to a
• 34:54
  director is not the best scenario.
• 34:56
  But you know, he, Robert totally understood, you know, let's make
• 35:00
  the best use of of our dollars. So, you know, trying to choose
• 35:04
  silhouettes that would reflect the kinds of people who made the
• 35:08
  journey. And so, you know, from the
• 35:12
  rentals we had base the basic costume and then we made on set
• 35:18
  while we were filming because the meetinghouse, we didn't
• 35:20
  shoot until quite late in this in the shooting schedule.
• 35:23
  We made on the on the costume truck all the apron linen
• 35:27
  aprons, quaffs that go under the hats for the women, falling
• 35:31
  bands, so the collars cuffs that all of the men had and the
• 35:36
  women, you know, so there. So that's really, I think what
• 35:39
  you see is the kind of, you know, we made all the that
• 35:44
  element that unifies that group of people.
• 35:47
  I mean, when I look at it now, I think it's all a little too
• 35:50
  starched and a little too perfect.
• 35:51
  But, you know, 10 years hindsight, you know, and
• 35:57
  sometimes you know, the the appropriate fabulous face, you
• 36:03
  know, doesn't necessarily come with the body.
• 36:06
  That is one of the costumes that we have.
• 36:11
  And so, you know, there are lots of ways of having to alter
• 36:15
  things temporarily. You know, so big crowd seems
• 36:20
  that on smaller budgets are are, you know, challenging.
• 36:24
  They really are. One thing from this scene that
• 36:27
  immediately caught my attention were the hats.
• 36:31
  And I love a hat, so I loved this opening scene, all the
• 36:35
  incredible Puritan hats. Can you talk a little bit about
• 36:39
  the importance of hats in this and how it contributed to the
• 36:44
  overall feel of the movie? Yeah, I mean, I, I, I think that
• 36:49
  the best hats we put in the most prominent spots.
• 36:54
  And I think that Williams Sugarloaf, Catherine's
• 36:59
  Sugarloaf, they were both made for us at Plymouth Plantation
• 37:04
  in, in, consequently in or, or, or subsequently.
• 37:07
  Brother, you know, I have many more contacts, particularly now
• 37:12
  that I've worked in Europe several times, you know, with
• 37:14
  the incredible milliner's. And, and so I think I would
• 37:19
  have, if I, if I did the witch now, I think that, you know,
• 37:22
  there would be, I think Thomason's hat would be slightly
• 37:25
  chunkier, a lot chunkier. You know, those choices were
• 37:32
  made with what was available at the time and we couldn't make
• 37:36
  all the hats. So we made Jonah's hat and
• 37:41
  Caleb's Monmouth cap was knit for him.
• 37:46
  What you maybe don't see, except for in maybe in the scenes where
• 37:51
  Catherine and Thomason are fighting or William is dragging
• 37:55
  Thomason across, you know, trying to figure out what the
• 37:59
  truth is. You, you, you would see in
• 38:01
  scenes like that they're, they have stockings that are above
• 38:04
  their knees, like thigh high hand knit stockings, which take
• 38:09
  a phenomenal amount of time to knit.
• 38:11
  And I was able to buy those second hand from Plymouth
• 38:13
  Plantation, which allowed, you know, authenticity on a small
• 38:19
  budget, you know. But the hats I think I'm trying
• 38:22
  to think of of you don't really see Black Phillips incredible
• 38:27
  hat. He has a hat with a feather
• 38:28
  that's, you know, probably about 3 feet long.
• 38:31
  You see hints of it, but you don't really see the whole whole
• 38:34
  piece. Now I'm trying to, I'm trying to
• 38:36
  think of of, you know, the other, all the quaffs are very
• 38:40
  specific and, and, you know, in researching the quaffs, that led
• 38:44
  to a fascinating area of how the hair was dressed.
• 38:49
  So the hair was dressed with the very long linen tapes.
• 38:52
  And you know, this was a tape was braided into the hair and
• 38:57
  then brought up either side across the crown.
• 39:00
  And then the tails of the tapes were then wound back up over the
• 39:04
  the crown and that whole hair tape, tape being another name
• 39:10
  for ribbon or, or you know, so that formed the anchor to secure
• 39:19
  the quaff tube. So the quaff had its own long
• 39:23
  linen tapes that then wound back up around in front of that hair
• 39:27
  mound. And so, you know, they were,
• 39:31
  they were, we had to manufacture the quaffs before even putting
• 39:34
  on the felt hats or, you know, the straw hats or whatever
• 39:39
  material, you know, the the Topper was made of.
• 39:43
  So all of that was a part of the research process.
• 39:46
  And you know, it's, it's so foreign to the way we dress now.
• 39:53
  You know, it's, it's just fascinating.
• 39:57
  Yeah, we really, you know, we talked about this quite a bit,
• 39:59
  but from a lot of our interviews we find that, you know, costume
• 40:02
  designers don't really get to sneak in as many hats as they
• 40:05
  usually like. So this was kind of like a nice
• 40:08
  treat for us, and I assume for you too, you know?
• 40:14
  Well, and and you know, I will say that, you know, Nosferatu
• 40:17
  has some pretty spectacular headwear, OK.
• 40:22
  So we're going to revisit that. It's a.
• 40:24
  Little tempting thing. There.
• 40:26
  Yeah, Christmas Day, by the way, everyone.
• 40:27
  The perfect holiday film. Yeah.
• 40:30
  OK, so in The Witch I, I just got to say aging and dying is
• 40:35
  one of my favorite aspects of costume design.
• 40:37
  I could talk about it forever and ever.
• 40:40
  And what I found so interesting about the Witch is, you know,
• 40:43
  like you mentioned, they don't really have a lot of costume
• 40:45
  changes. So these characters really are
• 40:47
  washing their clothes when they can.
• 40:49
  Or like, there's that one moment where poor Thomason has to scrub
• 40:53
  Williams, you know, whatever he was wearing at that moment.
• 40:58
  Yeah. So I just, I want to take this
• 41:00
  opportunity to talk to you about the aging and dying process
• 41:03
  because we also see a lot of dirt, a lot of blood.
• 41:06
  They're running around and dust. And I mean, it's, it's a mess.
• 41:09
  A beautiful mess, I should say. Well, the breakdown process, we
• 41:14
  didn't have a lot of time. We, we did the fittings in
• 41:16
  Toronto, finished sewing all the costumes and then did breakdown.
• 41:22
  We did another level of breakdown once we were in
• 41:27
  Mattawa, you know, and the actors had the costumes for
• 41:30
  rehearsal for a little bit of time and so we could
• 41:33
  individualize spots where their hands would wipe or, you know,
• 41:37
  become perma dirt. That was personal highs to the
• 41:43
  to the, you know, the size of the body that was inhabiting it.
• 41:47
  So Robert is is fanatical about breakdown and and rightly so,
• 41:53
  and fabulously so. You know, he doesn't want to see
• 41:56
  new looking anything. And what that does consequently,
• 42:00
  because of Jaron's lighting is it renders texture that you
• 42:04
  know, you don't see particularly onset to the naked eye.
• 42:08
  But then when you watch the film, you think, wow, that, you
• 42:11
  know, that read beautifully. You know, it seems like it's
• 42:15
  been on that body for a very long time.
• 42:17
  I think that, you know, we, we, we spoke earlier about the crew.
• 42:22
  We had a very tiny crew. So our breakdown was intense.
• 42:27
  I think we did three separate days with a, you know, maybe
• 42:31
  four people. And I did breakdown.
• 42:34
  My assistant did breakdown. We all did breakdown.
• 42:38
  We're all doing breakdown. Grab a brush.
• 42:42
  When we got to to Mattawa and, and Kiosk, which was the the
• 42:47
  site where the farm was built, we had some pretty wild
• 42:52
  makeshift circumstances for costumes that had so much blood
• 42:58
  involved and, you know, continuity was all over the
• 43:02
  place. So we're, you know, you're
• 43:03
  filming something that is bloody in the morning, something that
• 43:06
  is clean in the afternoon. We did have multiples for
• 43:10
  certain of the costumes and I was really careful with Robert
• 43:13
  going through all of that in prep to decide, you know, how
• 43:17
  many resets we would need. One thing that is always true, I
• 43:23
  think in filming is you could make a huge number of theme
• 43:29
  costumes for the actors to change into.
• 43:32
  But you have to have the time to stop the crew, to take the actor
• 43:37
  away, to clean up not just their costumes, but also clean up
• 43:40
  their makeup, clean up their hair, clean up the SAT
• 43:43
  everything. So I think that, you know, after
• 43:47
  a while, experience tells me that we're not going to have
• 43:51
  time, you know, to reset and reset and reset.
• 43:54
  So I typically suggest fewer multiples than what one might,
• 44:00
  you know, think necessary. And so, you know, we, we were
• 44:04
  constantly cleaning things, brushing them down.
• 44:07
  We had onset, really minimal onset washing abilities.
• 44:12
  You know, we had rudimentary washing abilities.
• 44:16
  You know, we, we didn't really have a, a costume shop to go
• 44:20
  back to. You know, it was very much
• 44:22
  nomadic. It was very much like the
• 44:24
  circus. So, you know, we had stages, we
• 44:29
  had stages of, of breakdown that we could take farther and then
• 44:33
  we had more pristine costumes for, for instance, like the
• 44:37
  opening when they first get to the to the new land that they're
• 44:41
  going to farm, you know, but but again, it wasn't like we had
• 44:45
  rocks and rocks of clothing. Right.
• 44:48
  I mean, it kind of adds to the realism of it all too, you know?
• 44:51
  Which is what's so terrifying about this movie is just how
• 44:54
  real it feels at times. Except for maybe this next
• 44:57
  character. Yes, getting into the more
• 45:03
  fantastical element of the witch, the red clothes really
• 45:09
  stands out with all the muted tones.
• 45:12
  What was the significance of the color choice of red and the
• 45:17
  silhouette symbolizing Just like her power is so clear.
• 45:21
  Yeah, well, you know, there, there actually is the old witch
• 45:27
  who you see naked at the goat and you see naked in her hovel
• 45:35
  with poor Samuel. So the the not much of.
• 45:38
  A costume there, sadly. Well, actually there was a whole
• 45:42
  costume designed and and built and, and she did undress
• 45:46
  completely. But you know, time being of the
• 45:51
  essence, you know, cut 2 naked witch slathering herself with
• 45:55
  Samuel. So when you see the old witch,
• 46:02
  it's actually the old witch running through the woods.
• 46:06
  You never see her up close in costume, but it's the old witch
• 46:10
  in costume running through the woods.
• 46:13
  Or or at least another person portraying the old witch.
• 46:17
  And then in the scene with the young witch, obviously a vision
• 46:21
  to entice young Caleb. Terrifying old Hand, you know,
• 46:27
  being the old witch in reality. Yeah, that was a serious.
• 46:30
  Junk scare? Yeah.
• 46:33
  So. You know, I mean, they're,
• 46:35
  they're all of the fairy tale references, you know, whether
• 46:39
  it's Little Red Riding Hood or whether it's illustrations,
• 46:44
  Victorian illustrations or, or, or earlier, you know, the
• 46:49
  definite folk tale reference that we have, you know, in, in
• 46:54
  our subconscious, in our, in, in the zeitgeist, You know, that
• 46:58
  that was meant to the red cloak was meant to speak to all of
• 47:02
  those images, you know, and the rest of our costume is, is, you
• 47:09
  know, period accurate. It's it's just that, you know,
• 47:12
  the red coke was the kind of lead in to the horror.
• 47:17
  Yeah, no, it's great. I mean, Elizabeth and I, we
• 47:19
  usually do this segment on all these podcasts.
• 47:21
  Every time we have like a red costume, especially on like a
• 47:24
  leading female character, we always make a big deal of it.
• 47:27
  So as soon as I saw this, I was trying not to text Elizabeth
• 47:30
  being like, we we got one. This is this is a good one.
• 47:34
  Well, also this black Philip, his cavalier boots, he has red
• 47:41
  heels. I saw that.
• 47:43
  And red, the red sole and he has beautiful gold spurs.
• 47:48
  And you don't, I don't think you see the, the boot cuffs or I
• 47:55
  think you see a little bit, maybe a little bit of his
• 47:58
  gloves, but you don't see the, the full beaded gloves.
• 48:01
  And, you know, the image that I'm looking at on the screen
• 48:05
  that was, you know, sort of in the makeup trailer.
• 48:07
  But if you darkened that down to almost black.
• 48:13
  Yeah, I was going to ask you. I mean, this is a very so we're
• 48:17
  talking about Black Phillips costumes.
• 48:18
  So everyone listening and it's like, it's one of the most
• 48:21
  elaborate costumes that I didn't even know existed until I
• 48:24
  rewatched this film. I I forgot that Black Phillip
• 48:28
  even transformed. So I was already shocked.
• 48:30
  But it's such a elaborate costume and you almost barely
• 48:33
  see it because it's so dark. And I'm just, I was, I was
• 48:35
  thinking about you when I saw this scene because I'm like,
• 48:38
  Linda made this and her team, you know, made this very
• 48:40
  elaborate costume. We barely see it.
• 48:42
  So I mean, please like give us the details on this to give it
• 48:46
  its moment that it so rightfully deserves.
• 48:49
  Well, you know, it, it, it isn't just black Phillips costume.
• 48:52
  It's it's the book of names. It's the, you know, everything
• 48:56
  that that scene is meant to evoke.
• 49:00
  I believe that the realization happened that anything that we
• 49:04
  show in in, you know, the full light of day, if it were day
• 49:09
  would not be as scary, not be as frightening as what maybe the
• 49:14
  audience can imagine for themselves.
• 49:16
  And so the goat shed, which is where, you know, Thomason wakes
• 49:20
  up in in the house. And then she exits the house and
• 49:24
  makes her way to the goat shed with her Lantern.
• 49:27
  And Black Philip as a goat is in the goat shed.
• 49:31
  And finally she hears what Mercy and Jonas have supposedly been
• 49:37
  hearing, you know, and Black Phillip is speaking to her and
• 49:42
  his voice is just so gorgeous and sexy and deep.
• 49:47
  And the goat shed was not a large building and the rig that
• 49:52
  had I can't even remember how many tea lights on it to create
• 49:57
  the light from the Lantern and to create, you know, the
• 50:00
  softness and the twinkle when when Thomason is disrobing and
• 50:05
  and you know, she's just so vulnerable.
• 50:08
  I believe that, you know, Robert realized that it's more
• 50:12
  affecting, you know, if, if it's as realistic as the night light,
• 50:18
  you know, the moonlight, you know, So yes, it can be
• 50:22
  crushing, but only for a short amount of time.
• 50:25
  You know, in in subsequent films, you know, Craig and I
• 50:30
  have both designed either sets or costumes that may or may not
• 50:35
  end up in the film. You know, and and so that you
• 50:41
  know, you know that does happen. It happens, but you know, we
• 50:44
  still got a little peek at it and it was still quite
• 50:47
  beautiful. Oh my gosh, Linda, that brings
• 50:49
  us really to the end of The Witch.
• 50:52
  You know, it's it's such an incredible film and you know,
• 50:54
  like we're still talking about this film.
• 50:56
  What has this film meant to you, looking back on it that people
• 50:59
  are still talking about it and having a love for the witch?
• 51:03
  Well, I mean, it's always really, it's always really
• 51:06
  gratifying and and satisfying to hear that people we're moved,
• 51:10
  we're moved by the costumes that that the costumes, you know,
• 51:14
  help them feel in the period. I think that, you know,
• 51:19
  obviously it's it's also the first in in a series of other
• 51:23
  really fabulous Robert Eggers experiences for me.
• 51:28
  So I hope everyone watches it and enjoys it.
• 51:33
  And I'm very excited actually for Christmas this year, and
• 51:36
  probably not for the reason everyone might be thinking, but
• 51:39
  you and Robert have another film coming out on December 25th,
• 51:43
  Nosferatu. I know you can't say a lot about
• 51:46
  it and we're not going to push for spoilers, but what can we
• 51:50
  all expect? I am very, very excited for
• 51:52
  this. The cast looks amazing, the
• 51:54
  colors, it all just looks great. Well, the cast is incredible.
• 51:59
  Lily, Lily Rose Jack is, is extraordinary.
• 52:02
  Willem Dafoe Bill Skarsgar is incredible.
• 52:07
  Nicholas Holt, Aaron Taylor Johnson.
• 52:10
  I mean, you know, it, it goes on.
• 52:12
  Emma Corin I mean, they're all it's just terrifying, beautiful,
• 52:18
  dark. And you know, I, I think that's
• 52:23
  probably about all I can say. I mean, that's, that's enough
• 52:26
  for me. That's everything we're hoping
• 52:28
  for. So costume designer Linda Muir,
• 52:32
  thank you so much for talking with us on the Art of Costume
• 52:34
  Podcast. This has been such an honor.
• 52:37
  Thank you, Elizabeth, and thank you Spencer and thank you for
• 52:39
  actually taking such an interest in costuming.
• 52:43
  You know, it's, it's great. Elizabeth, it's hard for us to
• 52:51
  play one of our other of serious business, not game serious
• 52:55
  matters the stitch rating and because I also have questions to
• 52:59
  you, what did you think? I liked it.
• 53:02
  I I really liked it. I'm not the biggest fan of,
• 53:06
  like, silent movies, but this man makes it work.
• 53:09
  Yeah. And quite frankly, the scenes
• 53:13
  where it was loud, particularly the scenes where the twins were
• 53:17
  talking. I was like should.
• 53:19
  We go back to the silence. Those those child actors were
• 53:23
  excellent because I was so annoying.
• 53:26
  Yeah, I was like when Thomas and suddenly was like, you know
• 53:30
  what? I think those two little kids
• 53:32
  are the witches. I was on her side.
• 53:34
  I was like, you know what, Let's let's go.
• 53:37
  Yeah, it, it was, it was so good and not, not quite what I was
• 53:42
  expecting because I thought it was all, it was all going to be
• 53:46
  about Thomas and like being a witch and like discovering like
• 53:49
  her witchiness. And it's like not at all.
• 53:52
  It is about the wild beliefs of these people.
• 53:55
  Yeah, I mean, it's it's, I mean, that's kind of what's so
• 53:58
  exciting about the season that we're doing.
• 54:03
  You know, we the craft was a little bit different, but this
• 54:06
  this film and what we're going to be talking about next week,
• 54:09
  It's really fun to kind of like dive back into this period in
• 54:12
  time because it is so fascinating to me.
• 54:14
  And I love reading about it, but it's just also so horrifying.
• 54:17
  And, you know, just like these crazy beliefs that led people to
• 54:21
  believe the darnest things and do the worst things to like
• 54:25
  other humans. I love what Robert Eggers did
• 54:28
  with this film because it really was like a realistic take on
• 54:32
  what was actually happening, which was like, these young
• 54:35
  women are being blamed for, you know, these the worst fears of
• 54:40
  these religious people. And they couldn't do anything
• 54:42
  but blame, you know, young women as they were growing up and,
• 54:45
  like, putting all the blame on their shoulders.
• 54:49
  And then next week, in our next episode, we'll be talking about
• 54:53
  a very fantastical view of what that looked like.
• 54:56
  But yeah, you know. This week is very grounded.
• 54:58
  Next week is off the wall. So with that, Elizabeth, what is
• 55:02
  your stitch rating then for this film?
• 55:05
  I think it's a solid like like a solid 4.5.
• 55:09
  Oh wow. I really, really liked it.
• 55:12
  I really liked it. I I think he could have gotten
• 55:16
  like, I like didn't under quite understand whether they thought
• 55:21
  the father had done something or the father like disagreed with
• 55:26
  how they were teaching the Bible and the Puritan beliefs.
• 55:31
  I was a little bit confused about that.
• 55:34
  So I I wish it had gotten into that more.
• 55:36
  And really this, the twins just like made me so annoyed.
• 55:40
  Elizabeth. Was getting ready to get into
• 55:43
  the TV and start fighting. She's like square up.
• 55:47
  They were so annoying. And this is not a beef of the
• 55:51
  actual child actors. They were amazing at their jobs
• 55:54
  actually. So there should be an Oscar for
• 55:57
  like young child actors because they would have got it for me.
• 56:00
  They absolutely would have, but Spencer, what is your situating?
• 56:05
  So I loved this movie. I thought it was really great.
• 56:09
  I thought, you know, like I said it, it was fantastic.
• 56:12
  And since that it was like so realistic, I thought the horror
• 56:15
  was creepy. The language and the way these
• 56:18
  like actors had to like recite their lines is very poetic and
• 56:22
  beautiful. I just thought from a production
• 56:25
  design point of view, cinematography, costume, of
• 56:28
  course, the brilliant Linda Muir, I thought was all great.
• 56:32
  And you know, even though I also found the twins annoying, I was
• 56:35
  like in my head, I was like, they're doing the job though.
• 56:37
  Like I knew like these actors were killing it because I too
• 56:40
  was like clenching my fists being like, like Linda's
• 56:44
  interview, like you're a mannequin.
• 56:46
  Do not speak, you know, and they weren't listening to their their
• 56:50
  mom and dad. So I am going to give this.
• 56:54
  I don't know. I I was just trying not to go
• 56:56
  into the .5. So I'm also like at a four.
• 56:59
  I guess I only reserve 5 for like the utmost favorite films
• 57:04
  but. Yeah, I don't think we've given
• 57:06
  anything a 5 yet. I also, my thing too was the
• 57:09
  very beginning. I spent a lot of time wondering
• 57:11
  what it was that dad did. And I wish we had a little bit
• 57:14
  more dive into like the the religious structure of like this
• 57:18
  Puritan community. I just was like left with like a
• 57:21
  little bit of questions there because there's such like rich
• 57:23
  storytelling that happens in this, dare I say, kind of fucked
• 57:27
  up society that this Puritan, you know, culture was living in.
• 57:32
  And I was like, I, I spent like the first 30 minutes of this
• 57:34
  film, like Googling things. So like, what did a dad do?
• 57:37
  And it just kept being like, oh, talking about his pride and
• 57:40
  whatnot. And I was like, no, no, no,
• 57:41
  what, what did he do? I need to know because.
• 57:44
  He's like, I'm pretty sure he is on trial for something, but I
• 57:48
  was like, what did he do? What did he do?
• 57:52
  OK, But yeah, so I mean, it was otherwise a pretty perfect film.
• 57:56
  I really loved it. And I'm going to add this to my
• 57:59
  Halloween, Halloween rotation. And with that, Elizabeth, should
• 58:05
  we play our favorite game? Yes, hit it, Daniel.
• 58:11
  The one costume to rule them all.
• 58:18
  Spencer, what was your one costume to rule them all?
• 58:22
  This was a hard one I think. When Elinda was talking about
• 58:26
  Thomason's pink hue and how when she said the pink could kind of
• 58:32
  become red, I thought that was brilliant.
• 58:35
  Like, that actually broke my brain because I was like, Oh my
• 58:37
  gosh. That's saying this whole time
• 58:39
  that, you know, she is kind of transitioning into becoming a
• 58:43
  witch. We just don't really know that.
• 58:45
  I thought that was so smart. I mean, it, it broke my head.
• 58:49
  So that's my one costume. I can't agree with you more,
• 58:54
  especially considering this is also my one costume to.
• 58:58
  Rule them all. Because it's so she is the
• 59:02
  central character, but I was kind of surprised, like how much
• 59:05
  of the story took place without her even being there some.
• 59:10
  I thought that was brilliant. I also like it because she's
• 59:14
  always talking about like England and basically like how
• 59:17
  much better things were in England for them.
• 59:21
  And she definitely, I think, is taking a little bit more
• 59:25
  interest and pride in her appearance than maybe the rest
• 59:29
  of her family because she can remember when they had a little
• 59:33
  bit more status, more money, more comfort, and is trying to
• 59:37
  get that back through her clothing.
• 59:40
  Yeah, it's it's really great, Great costume.
• 59:42
  And there was just so much detail in all the costumes.
• 59:45
  So, you know, much like Linda, I can imagine, you know, your
• 59:49
  favorite costume changing every time you see this film because
• 59:52
  you might see something different.
• 59:53
  It was, it was just a great 1, Elizabeth.
• 59:55
  That brings us to the end of The Witch.
• 59:58
  I'm so glad we finally did this episode.
• 1:00:00
  Now we could stop talking about it every time something witchy
• 1:00:03
  comes up. Yes, finally.
• 1:00:07
  And if you all want to tell us you're 1 costume to roll them
• 1:00:11
  all, please e-mail us at the Arctic costume@gmail.com.
• 1:00:18
  Also, if you want to see everything we're talking to
• 1:00:21
  Linda about, go to youtube.com slash at The Art of Costume.
• 1:00:26
  You can listen and watch Daniel's fabulous video of all
• 1:00:30
  the images we used, or you can also go to our Instagram at the
• 1:00:35
  Art of Costume Pod. And also, I was supposed to
• 1:00:39
  announce this last week but I totally forgot.
• 1:00:41
  So you know, we're trying this out.
• 1:00:44
  We're doing a spooky season Discord channel if you want to
• 1:00:49
  communicate. Yeah.
• 1:00:51
  Other costume nerds as we get through spooky season.
• 1:00:54
  So I'm going to put the link to that in the episode description.
• 1:00:57
  So we're going to test it out, see if it works, and if you all
• 1:00:59
  love this Discord channel, we might keep it around, and if
• 1:01:02
  not, it will disappear in a night sky on a broomstick until
• 1:01:07
  next year. Perhaps so.
• 1:01:08
  Midnight on October 31st. Right.
• 1:01:13
  And Elizabeth, what are we watching next week?
• 1:01:16
  It's it's a, it's like interesting one.
• 1:01:20
  We are getting right to the heart of Puritan culture and
• 1:01:26
  some of them were fantastical elements that people have
• 1:01:31
  associated with the Salem Witch trials.
• 1:01:35
  We are watching the TV show Salem.
• 1:01:43
  I have to tell everyone you must watch this show, even if you
• 1:01:47
  just watch the first season that you'll probably have enough to
• 1:01:50
  like follow along with us. This series is a batshit crazy.
• 1:01:55
  It is insane and the costumes are like Met Gala level
• 1:02:01
  sometimes and this will Salem town.
• 1:02:05
  It it is a show. As we said, it contains
• 1:02:08
  witchery, buffoonery and a lack of common sense.
• 1:02:11
  So go watch it. That is the episode summary so I
• 1:02:16
  don't have to read it next week. Yeah.
• 1:02:19
  Thank you all so much for listening.
• 1:02:21
  Until next time, costume nerds. Everyone have a wonderfully
• 1:02:25
  spooky week.