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Insights from a Funder with Marian Clowes | Nonpofit411 Podcast · Nonprofit411 Podcast

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Hello and welcome to Nonprofit411, where we dive into resources and strategies that help nonprofits not just survive, but truly thrive.
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I'm Sarah Barton, your host and fundraising advocate.
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Each episode, we bring you inspiring conversations with experts in fundraising, sustainability, and best practices to equip you with the tools and confidence you need to make a real impact.
Hello, and welcome to the nonprofit 411 podcast.
We're excited to have you joining us today.
And I'm your host, Sarah Barton, and I'm with Marion Klaus, Associate Director from the Sisters Health Foundation.
Welcome.
Thank you.
Glad to be here.
I'm so excited to have you.
So, you know, we provide resources to nonprofits and the podcast is an opportunity for experts to share their expertise and you're a unique one.
We've never had a foundation, like a funder on before.
And so it'll be a nice perspective.
So I'm excited about this conversation.
So to begin with, let's start with my favorite question, which is what is your favorite hobby? My favorite hobby is that I'm a big scrapbooker.
So I have a long time group of friends that we scrapbook together.
We go away for weekends to scrapbook together.
We're all crafters and we have a lot of fun spending time engaged in our crafting and catching up with each other.
So that is my favorite hobby.
Oh, that's so exciting to me that I didn't know that we shared that I yeah, I have, I haven't as much recently, but I started as a digital scrapbooker actually.
And I did a ton for almost eight years.
I was very involved in the digital scrapbooking world online and did a lot of teaching, but I kind of fell in love with paper when I, like, as I started the digital scrapbooking.
So I've done some physical digital, physical scrapbooking some, but then I really fell in love with paper crafting.
So that's, that's actually my favorite hobby is paper crafting.
I do 3d paper art and card making and stuff like that.
Right.
Neat.
Well, we'll have to connect further on that someday.
Cause yeah, I'm big into paper crafting also.
Oh, that's exciting.
I love everything about it.
So I really like buying the paper.
So I had to figure out how to use it.
So can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and how you got into the nonprofit world and how you got to where you're at now? Sure.
Sure.
So as, as you mentioned, Sarah, I'm currently the associate director of the sisters health foundation and We are a regional funder.
We were created out of the sale, partial sale of St.
Joseph's hospital here in Parkersburg.
And our mission is all centered around health.
So we support health related projects in an 11 County service area.
That includes eight counties in West Virginia and three in Southeastern Ohio.
Which was the footprint of the hospital when it was in service.
So I'm sure I'll talk more about the foundation as we go through the conversation today, but just in terms of my background, I've worked for nonprofits my whole career.
I started out in my first nonprofit job working for my alma mater, Penn state university.
In development and fundraising several decades ago, and then move from there to a nonprofit museum in Delaware.
And then when I came to West Virginia again, a couple of decades ago, I started working for the Parkersburg area community foundation, where I spent about, a little over two decades of my career.
And then just two years ago, found myself here at the sisters health foundation.
So I've, I've worked for two different foundations and two other kinds of nonprofits over my career.
And that's where my heart is in the nonprofit world service to the community.
And I've just followed that path through a couple of different Twists and turns along the way.
Well, that's exciting to hear all that background.
I'm actually from Pennsylvania.
So I'm familiar with state college in that area where Penn state is.
And I started in higher education also.
So that's a really exciting place to start.
I feel like.
In higher education, you're connected to all sorts of resources.
It's, it's really a resource vibrant about, you know, nonprofit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, when I, when I worked for Penn State, I was in development and it was a massive operation.
And I'm sure that's even grown since my days there because those were the, the first times like the university was doing big capital campaigns.
They've done many of them subsequently.
So.
It's it was an exciting environment and I learned a lot when I worked there.
Yeah, yeah, I do, I, I did really like that environment, so, and, and you're now doing what I always say I want to do when, eventually in my career, which is giving away the money.
I feel like it will be, it would be easier, but I don't know, tell me your perspective on that.
Is it easier to give away the money than it is to fundraise the money? It's it's, it's meaningful for sure.
And it is, it is a different role than raising the money.
And, you know, when I was at the community foundation, that, that funding, that organization is both a fundraising organization and a grant making organization.
So, you kind of have both sides of it there, although I was concentrated on the grant making side, but.
It it's it seems like it would be easier, but it's really hard to make the decisions about where to allocate the funds.
There are so many needs in the community and any foundation or funders resources are limited.
So there's a tough decision making process about what to fund and what not to fund.
But what the ability to fund things is very meaningful and enjoyable work and.
Just the relationship building with grant partners.
And that's really a big focus here at the Sisters Health Foundation is building long term relationships with our grant partners so that we can work together to understand their needs and help them meet those needs in the best way possible.
So I really enjoy that relationship building piece of things.
But the giving away of money is not as easy as it sounds.
That's my conclusion on that.
Yeah, I mean, I, I understand that, that it is really hard to have to make the hard choices.
So, I can see that.
So, As a, as a you know, as an organization that gives money, I think that it's really, really helpful for nonprofits to have this perspective from your point of view on how you prefer to learn about their organizations and to build those relationships.
What do you like, what's your preferred pathway? We're, you know, we are all about personal contact.
We and, and that may be not, that's not always the case with every funder than any organization would approach, but we really want to get to know our grant partners.
So we are always open to conversations to visit.
To meetings to get to understand what a nonprofit, what kind of work they're trying to do, where they are kind of in their life cycle what needs they may have.
So, we're always open to conversation and personal contact.
We have a couple of different grant programs where the entry point, we have two different main grant programs where the entry point is a little bit different, and I can touch on that if, if you, if that's helpful at this point.
We have two main grant programs.
One is called our basic needs direct service grant program, which is our smaller grant program that awards funds to organizations that are working to meet people's basic needs like food, clothing, emergency assistance, utility assistance, those kinds of things.
For that process the first, the first touch point really is a conversation.
We want to talk directly with those organizations to learn about their needs.
And we, in that process, we actually help those organizations write their grant proposal because a lot of the organizations that we're working with in that, in that program are very grassroots, all volunteer driven and may not be as experienced.
With grant seeking as some larger, more structured types of organizations.
So we are really leaning into what's called trust based philanthropy and trying to make things as easy as possible for those seeking funds to kind of break down the power difference between funders and, and those who receive funding.
So.
That part that that process of conversation followed by our assistance in preparing a grant application is part of our commitment to trust based philanthropy for our other grant program.
Our responsive grant program where we're making some larger grants to address sort of systemic challenges around health.
In our priority areas that starts with what's called a letter of inquiry, which is an actually an online form in our grant system.
Some people hear letter of inquiry and think they've got to write a letter, but what they do is fill out an online form and that so the entry point there can be that letter of inquiry.
But even in that case, if somebody wants to have a conversation before they submit the letter of inquiry to better understand whether what they have in mind is a good fit or, you know, suggestions on how to approach our foundation.
We are always open to those kinds of conversations.
So we're very outreach oriented.
Yeah.
Well, I do really appreciate that about your organization.
And I think that it's something that I always encourage any organization who's working with any type of funder or who wants to work with a funder, like to do right.
To have, to start with the conversation and see if you're aligned because Requesting funds is not just about getting money.
It's really about trying to build a relationship and working towards some larger common good, right? Right, but you know, it's about mutual interest and partnership.
And fortunately in this community, most funders are very open, if not all, are pretty open to conversation.
So, and sometimes we have those conversations together.
If we know that an organization might be approaching several local funders for the same project, a lot of times we'll reach out to each other and say, Hey, there's this project.
I think the nonprofit would like to approach several of us or is interested in approaching several of us.
And we'll have that conversation together.
Again, trying to save the organization time from having to go to each funder to talk and to get feedback.
If we can do it all together at the same time, you know, we always enjoy doing that.
But yeah, I think your advice is, is right on target, Sarah, is try to make a connection and build a relationship.
Funders are people just like, just like everybody else.
And it's, it's about making that connection and building that relationship.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
So in York, like you've kind of talked here about the relationship, what, or what are some of the things that you've seen in your time since you've spent, you know, Over two decades in a position of, you know, being a funder, what are some of the maybe biggest mistakes that you see? Yeah.
And you broke up a little bit at the beginning, but I caught the end.
Okay.
So you're asking about things that, that might lead to a funder deciding not to fund a proposal.
So some, some mistakes along the way.
I think the first key thing is to really understand the funders guidelines and priorities and giving capacity.
So I think that's like, do your homework is how I talk about it.
You have to really dig in visit the funders website.
Understand what types of things they typically fund and the types of things they typically do not fund.
That's sometimes just as important.
Understand the geographic area that the funder is focused on.
That's super important too.
You can have a project that's really aligned with the funder's interest, but it's not within the geographic area that they serve.
So I think the first, the, I guess the key thing is to do your homework and If you don't do your homework, I think you might not efficiently use your time because you wanna target the funders that where the fit is best, the bullseye, right? Where because it takes the, these things do take time to build a relationship with the funder to submit an application.
So you wanna target that, where the, the, it looks like the most likely fit.
So that would be one mistake I would see is not doing your homework before.
And you should do that before you do that outreach because even though an outreach call or a visit or a meeting can provide more insight, you want to know before you call that you're at least in the ballpark of what that funder might be interested in.
So, that would be 1 I, I always talk, I talk a lot about the budget for a grant especially if it's a project or a capital need or equipment.
I think budgets can be a red flag if they're not well prepared.
I think a lot of funders kind of go to the budget first and really want to see a well thought out budget that's well researched and makes sense and seems realistic.
And so I think not, not spending enough time on the budget can be a mistake that some organizations make.
And I think that funders often, you know, see that and then that raises questions about the project in general about feasibility or preparedness of the organization to implement what it is that they would like to do.
So the budget, so, you know, not doing your homework and understanding.
Priorities.
I think in, in terms of application preparation, like not giving yourself enough time, I see.
And I think I know it's a challenge.
I it's a challenge for nonprofits because they have so many things on their plate.
And this week they need to do A, B, and C and next week it's D, E, and F.
And, and so they, it might seem like on the funders end that, that nonprofits are waiting to the last minute to apply.
But that's probably because they had 10 to 15 to 20 other things they had to do in the weeks preceding our particular application deadline.
But that being said, I think if you can be a little bit ahead of deadlines, I think there's a lot of benefit in that because I think it gives you more time to think through your project and prepare the application more effectively.
If the funder has questions, it gives more time for maybe some back and forth before the actual application deadline date.
And, you know, I always tell folks that if, you know, if you wait till the very last day and there's a power outage or something goes wrong like that then you're, you know, you're in a really difficult position.
And I know the other thing I tell funder to tell applicants is that, you know, we often now, and I think a lot of funders have application deadlines that go till midnight because that's, you know, way our online systems work.
You know, why set it at 5 PM, for example, just set it at midnight.
But nobody's going to be sitting here in our office at 11 p.
m.
if you have a last minute question.
So, or if you start getting into it and realize there's a piece of information that you need that you have to get from somebody else and that person's not available.
So, so plan ahead if you can, because I think it just makes, it takes a little of the stress off of it and will just make an easier path for you to, to for the, the applicant to get their request in, in a timely and well prepared way.
Yeah.
So one of the pieces of advice that I give organizations is that actually plan your project before you look for the funder.
So, you know, because if it's something that your organization really wants to move towards, then it's something that you should invest energy in planning.
And so I feel like I've seen a couple of different models.
I've seen some people who create.
The project because there's a grant opportunity.
And then I've seen others where like, this is just part of their plan and they're being really intentional and they need funding for it, right? They also need funding for this part of their, and I think that the process is very different.
And in terms of waiting till the last minute, if you're using a project that you've planned, it's so much easier to answer the questions, right? Absolutely.
Yeah, I've done training exactly along those lines there of like, it's, it's, it's not just about the proposal, right? It's about the project that you've planned ahead of time and also about the organization being ready.
Like, like, I kind of do the base of the pyramid.
Like, the first thing is the organization needs to be ready.
So there's some in house things that need to be addressed, like board engagement or the financial management process or the organization's finances, like those things, you need a solid foundation there 1st, and then you look at the project that you want to do.
And that should come before you even think about who to go to for funding, because it's about the project, right? Or the need.
That you're trying to address, and if you have a well thought out, well planned, well researched project, then when you go to find funding, or you go to write the proposal, it's a, it's a much easier path because you should already have most of that together because so I, I completely agree with you on that.
And I think, you brought up kind of a risky thing.
I think that nonprofits do, which is kind of chasing funding that can that can possibly divert them from their mission.
They see a funder out.
There's announced a grant opportunity for something.
That's not exactly what they do, but they think.
Well, we could do that to get that funding.
And then suddenly you're in this mission drift place.
And then also, you know, funders want to know how you're going to sustain things.
And if your mission drifting, it can be even harder to sustain that project.
And so then you started something that you got funding for, but can't carry through.
And it's just, it's just.
Yeah, the funding sources shouldn't derive what the organization wants to do.
The organization should decide what it wants to do, make those plans, and then find the funding sources that fit that.
So yeah, that's, I talk about that quite a bit as also.
I'm glad, I'm glad that we're aligned on that because I, I do really feel strongly about that.
It's definitely, you know, before I ever get into the grant, When we're, I'm doing grant writing before I ever get into the writing part, we're developing the project.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah, you should have a whole timeline and plans and who's going to do what and the budget that, that should all come ahead, not be put together after you find a, you know, funding source and think, oh, well, we could do this.
So decide what you're going to do, then find the funding, potential funding.
I think along with that, when an organization does it in that way the outcome is so much more dynamic.
It really is really beautiful on the other end because they have created what they visioned for their organization.
And so, so they're able to do more and reach further.
And it's really, it really is.
impactful.
So yeah, yeah, I'm with you 100%.
Yeah.
I have a question.
So I get asked all the time about capacity grants.
And I don't know if you guys, you know, if you guys provide capacity grants or not, but what recommendations do you have to an organization who needs to build capacity? How would you recommend they go about developing capacity projects? We, we do provide capacity building grants.
But interestingly, if you look at all the grant types that we support, the fewest number of requests come in around capacity building and it's interesting to me.
And it's something I think that we think about, you know, how we try to promote the availability of capacity building grants.
But.
I think that nonprofits just generally under invest in capacity building.
So it's just not what they're thinking about in terms of applying for grants.
They're thinking about the equipment need or the new program that they want to initiate.
I will say we are doing more we've always done operating grants and we're doing more operating or flexible funding grants, which, which are capacity building also, even though we're not calling it calling it exactly capacity building, but that kind of flexible funding does give an organization the opportunity to kind of shore up its internal work or, or pivot and target funds where they're needed throughout the year.
Thank you.
But, like, true capacity building requests, we get so few of those, and I think it's something worth maybe exploring or talking about why, why that is, because we are open to that and welcome that but we don't, don't see it.
Do you have any thoughts about why don't apply for capacity building? I do.
I actually think they don't understand how to create a capacity project, like how to create a capacity project, right? They know they need more help, but they don't know.
They, they, I feel like when they're approaching foundations, they're not sure how to see.
how to demonstrate the impact of that additional support.
And, you know, and I, I tell organizations, the two examples that I give are if you don't have a full time executive director, you know, what would having that full time executive director transform for you? That's one of the questions that I ask a lot.
Like how would that transform you? Because then they can start to see like metrics that they might be able to provide the funder and help them understand like how valuable that would be.
Because I really think that's the challenge.
I was, as I was building one of my courses, I really intentionally gave examples I gave a project example and then I gave a capacity grant example and in the capacity when we were expanding employees, you know, so that they could see like, this is how we would say, you know, that this is going to transform us because we can offer our programming more efficiently when we have, you know, when we build capacity.
And then the other example I always give is, Equipment.
I have been in so many organizations where.
The inefficiencies because of really, really poor technological equipment really impedes a person's success.
You know, if we're paying let's say if we're paying an accountant 40, 000 a year.
And it takes 10 minutes for their computer to start up, and it takes 40 to 50 seconds each time they need to shift between software or something.
If you start to add up that amount of time, it's really, really impactful.
And the amount of you know, of the investment in their time, amount wasted, is a way to calculate, like, what you could gain, you know.
Okay.
Don't you think that ties in a bit, though, to like public perception of what nonprofits need or should have? And, you know, I've encountered this in my career is like, is that, you know, people think, oh, no, it should be good enough for nonprofits to have the cast off laptops from some local company that, you know, they don't think they're, you know, In good enough shape for them to keep them, but it's okay that that's what the nonprofit should get.
It's the castaways and the things that aren't as up to date or current.
And I think that there's just a misperception there that I mean, nonprofits, their businesses, like, like other businesses and the work.
Underinvestment and equipment or staffing you know, leads to less ability to deliver services, less efficiency in the work, possibly more cost over time to deal with problematic whether it's equipment or facilities or you know, whatever it is, but so I think there's, there's that.
So, yes, I, you know, think that it's important for nonprofits to be well equipped and.
in good physical spaces and have those kinds of resources that they need.
I think the staffing question is a challenging one for funders.
And here's why, I'll tell you why.
And we do fund, we fund staffing positions and sometimes new staffing positions.
But the big question that always comes up is how are you going to fund it after our grant is over? And it's hard.
The answer to that is not easy.
And because the answer to that is not easy, then that makes funders hesitant about.
You know, providing funding where the funding may not continue if if you can't see a good plan for where revenue will come long term because most funders aren't going to find a staff position year in and year out.
Continually, they might help get that started, but then there has to be some other business model plan for where that revenue is going to come from.
So I think that's the tricky thing.
And I, because I think you're completely right.
The capacity of some organizations would expand greatly if they had a paid executive director or additional paid staff.
But the challenge is how you're going to keep that going.
And that's why some funders I think pull back and say, I'm not sure I want to fund that because I'm not sure how they're going to keep it going.
Yeah.
Well, I think fundraising positions are a really good investment that a lot of organizations don't invest in at all.
You know, even if you there are a lot of fractional options now for funder, you know, for fundraisers so that.
You like almost on a consultant basis, you would have a fundraiser working for your organization and then, you know, the income that they would bring in could help continue the capacity growth.
So that's, you know, it's a model for that, but yeah, I think, I think you're right.
That's why I, that's why.
In my organization grants are part of a funding strategy.
You have to have a strategy.
And I think as I've worked with organizations, one of the challenges that I've found is that they actually don't have a lot of foundational systems in place for fundraising.
And this is where I, I'm very grateful for the work that I did at the university because in a university you have Or we had in the university that I worked at a really diverse fundraising department, right? We had a development office and we had individuals that worked with major fund, major donors, and we had the planned giving option.
We had an annual fund.
We had an alumni fund also, which was separate from the annual fund, you know, so you, you get schooled in a lot of different types of fundraising.
But there are systems in place to help with that.
And that's an area that's a capacity area that I think many small, especially smaller, newer nonprofits, but I've experienced it in small to medium nonprofits.
who have really been around for a long time, you know, they may not have a donor management system.
And without, yeah, without a system, it's really difficult to make sure you're communicating regularly and you're making sure that you're maintaining that relationship.
And that you're asking for funds because, you know, a donor can't figure out how to give you money.
They're not going to do that.
They probably could, but they're not going to, not likely going to.
Yeah.
So you have to actually have a strategy for how you're going to communicate to them, how they can support your mission, you know? And so I think those are key foundational things of fundraising that a lot of nonprofits.
I don't know.
And there's not an easy route for learning.
It's, it's literally why I've found in my organization because I want to be able to provide those foundational lessons on just, this is, these are systems that are just normal.
You just got to have these in place and how to use them.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that that I think individual fundraising from individuals feels intimidating to a lot of nonprofits and so they rely mostly on grants and maybe events, although I think there is, you know, some.
Growing realization that special events maybe aren't as profit favorable as they may seem, because if you calculate all the time and effort putting into planning the event, it may not be as profitable as you think.
But I, I, they're really, I don't think there's that many nonprofits in our region or our communities that are, are well versed or feel comfortable or, or.
bringing a lot of funding in from individual donors.
And so that is a, that is a real gap.
And, you know, when you look at giving nationally, you know, where it was, where do most charitable gifts come from, from individual individuals.
So that's, that's a big challenge.
And so I I'm glad you're working on that gap because I think it isn't, is not a comfort place for most nonprofits and because most of them don't have fundraising staff, like you said, too.
It might be the executive director wearing many hats or somebody else in the organization wearing many hats and those are skills that you can develop and become more comfortable with, but you need to take the time and and put the focus on on doing that.
And in some ways, maybe it just seems easier to seek grants then building those individual donor relationships.
But in the long term, the individual donor relationships might provide more ongoing regular support.
Then grants, which sometimes can come and go, depending on the changing interests and priorities of the funders.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's, that's, you know, kind of the first place that I always start and I do let organizations know.
You know, it's 67 percent right now, but it has been as high as 73 percent of donations have come from individuals.
It is, I think it's on the rise and I actually think part of the decline has been a gap of asking.
You know, in COVID made it even more difficult to ask just because people were a lot of nonprofits.
Continued their really vital work in their community throughout COVID, but they were stretched thin, you know, because they had increased increased need.
But I, and it's really funny because actually, as I share that with the nonprofits that I work with, they're often surprised by that number that it's so high, but it's a consistent number that has been that high.
And so it's definitely something that we need to really tune into and, you know, direct our efforts towards making sure we have a foundational giving program that donors can learn how to give to our organizations through.
So yeah, I, yeah, I, I agree.
And I do think it's a it's a skill that needs to be developed and, and you know, I'm glad you're providing some training around that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's some, there's some other great, there's some other great opportunities, you know, to learn.
I'm happy to do it.
And I'm also happy to refer to other things just to learn.
Cause you know, I didn't know a lot about plain giving.
So that's something like I would refer out to, but I actually learned the most recently from Oh, Posey's her last name, her first name, yes, sorry it didn't escape from me.
I went to the thing and she was talking about Plaingiving and I was like, oh, you know, she made it, she made it so simple that Plaingiving.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that is one, you know, one thing nonprofits can do is partner with their local community foundation.
Because, you know, some of those skills are hard to gain, you know.
Like, especially in the plan giving arena, but community foundations are well versed in that.
And if a nonprofit has a fund at a community foundation, they can often access some of that expertise and resources to help them develop plan giving programs without having to have all that expertise directly in house.
So that's, that's one way, like you said, there are other ways too, that they can get training or learn or, or, you know, partner with others, perhaps to, to build some of those skill sets that help them to pursue things like individual donor fundraising.
Yeah, a lot of the donor management sites provide phenomenal training along with their services, you know, so, I actually, I work with GiveButter and, They have so much free, they have so many free resources to learn.
So it's really amazing.
I think we're in an amazing time when it comes to fundraising because there is a lot of opportunity.
So yeah, there's a lot.
I mean, there's so many free resources out there, even on grant seeking.
I mean, there are a lot of free resources.
If, if people you know, look around a bit Candid has a lot of great modules or recordings that you can watch or all kinds of information that if you just spend a little time and dig in, there's a lot out there that can be accessed for free.
It's a matter of knowing where to look and then carving out the time to, you know, be able to fully benefit from some of those free resources.
Yeah, but capacity building is actually bringing those resources to you too.
So, you know, bringing some of those resources in.
So, and, and like I said, I, I really think that a lot of nonprofits just don't understand how to create this capacity building grants, but bringing in resources like that to help train your staff and to build your staff up so that they're able to do some of that stuff is a great capacity growing area.
So, right.
Right.
Well, thank you so much.
Can you let our listeners know where they can find you? We have some West Virginia and Ohio listeners, but a lot of ours are out of state, but they can still access and learn about the foundation.
Sure.
Sure.
So you're sure.
So, we have a website, which is sisters, health, FDN.
org.
So, we have lots of great information on there about our grant making priorities and process of our application process.
So just like any other funder, the first thing I would do, any funder you want to approach is Google them and find their website because there are not that many anymore that don't have some kind of website.
So they can visit our website.
And on the website, you can, you'll find information about all of our staff, including me.
With my email and our phone number and like I said, I'm, I'm happy for folks to reach out if they're looking for advice or, or want to ask about a project or, you know, something might align with our funding priorities and our geographic area.
Since that's I know you're reaching folks all across the country.
Our geographic counties are listed on there.
So that, and that's, you know, honestly, when I, when I do grant training, I, and I, when people are looking at funders, the 1st thing I say is look at the geographic area because that's the 1st screen, right? If they don't find in your geographic area, then you probably need to move on to to another funder.
Yes, yes, that's great advice.
I just wanted to plug you guys for people who do live in the West Virginia area.
You also have really amazing data resources where people have done you know, studies on like food and health in the area.
And so like you publish those.
On your site too.
I know I've read through some of those.
So that's a really great resource.
Yeah, we try to get those resources out there so that that many people can benefit from them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, all right.
And then our last question is always what's one piece of advice of advice you'd give to every nonprofit? Oh, that's a good question, Sarah.
I think, I think Keep your mission always in the front of your mind.
And I know some, I know we do this and some other non profits might like any kind of meeting we have, we always have our mission on there because that I think always going back to your mission and your values keeps you grounded and focused on the, the true heart of the work and will help you avoid any kind of that mission drift or you know, moving in some directions that, that aren't really critical or, or.
Close to the heart on the mission.
So keep the mission, keep the mission in mind and persistence, resilience is important.
Yeah, that's great.
That's great.
Yeah, I love the keep the mission in mind because it can help you say no, and it can help you say it can help you say yes, as well as saying no, right? Yeah, right.
And sometimes you have to say no, because that's the way that you, you discern what, what are the priorities and what are things that are not a fit for your organization.
And that's part of what we do as funders too, when we're looking at what to fund, you keep that mission in mind.
And unfortunately, sometimes we have to say no, but we know we always have the mission in mind.
Yeah.
That's great.
Well, thank you so much for joining us and to our listeners.
I thank you for tuning in this week.
I look forward to another conversation next week.
Thank you.
And bye.
Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Nonprofit 411.
I hope you found today's conversation as insightful and inspiring as I did.
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